Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 15, 2022

Various Points On Ukraine And Media

Let me start today's write up out with two reading recommendations.

Lambert Strether and Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism discuss a piece on the Russian operation in Ukraine that had been printed in the Marine Corps Gazette and of which facsimile pictures were published two weeks ago on Twitter and later in full at Reddit and by Southfront.

A Marine’s Assessment of Russia’s Military “Operation” in Ukraine (a “Profound Appreciation of All Three Realms in Which Wars Are Waged”)

I had read the Gazette piece when it first appeared some weeks ago and found it excellent. It realistically depicts the early Russian move towards Kiev as a feint. This is also my view. The feint, with too few troops to actually occupy Kiev, had a political and a military purpose.

Politically it put pressure on the Ukrainian government to quickly agree to Russian conditions for a ceasefire. This nearly worked when negotiations between Russia and Ukraine at the end of March in Turkey had promising results. The talks were then sabotaged by Boris Johnson's intervention in Kiev where he, speaking for Joe Biden, demanded a continuation of the war which Zelensky then promptly provided.

Militarily the feint had near prefect results. Some 100,000 Ukrainian troops were fixed around Kiev while Russian troops from Crimea moved nearly unopposed to connect the island via a land bridge to the Donbas and Russia and also grabbed a large foothold in Kherson on the west side of the Dnieper.

The hasty feint had a high price in the form of Russian casualties but helped to established front situations in the east and south that allowed for the mass destruction of Ukrainian forces with a minimum of casualties on the Russian side.

When the feint towards Kiev was no longer useful the Russian forces moved back to their starting positions without much fighting. The Ukrainian claimed that to be a victory but they had hardly anything to do with the well planned and executed retreat.

That the Gazette would print a piece that confirms this view is remarkable. Even more remarkable, as Lambert notes, is the lack of echo it has had in U.S. media:

This is August 14. “Marinus”‘s article in the August issue of MCG has been available since July 29 at the latest, the first hit at the Japanese source. The second hit appears on August 9, in a Russian-language aggregator. The third appears August 12, on Reddit. It’s been two weeks, and the media, collectively, have a ravenous news hole. So where is the coverage the Times? Where is the Washington Post? Where is Foreign Policy? Where is Foreign Affairs? Where is The Atlantic? Where is the Council on Foreign Relations? Where is the Institute for the Study of War? Where, further afield, is Defense One? The Drive? They are all silent. And yet what we have, as the quote in the headline to this post alone shows, is a significant break from orthodoxy on Ukraine and Russian capabilities generally in the professional magazine of the United States Marine Corps. Odd, very odd!

Indeed ...

Today I learned that the anonymous 'Marinus' author of the Marine Corps Gazette piece is allegedly the retired General Karl Van Riper who is well know for spoiling the Millennium Challenge war game by applying realistic conditions. The guy is hated by the chairborne divisions in the Pentagon. BTW - a facsimile of the first part of Marine Gazette piece is available here. Another excellent Gazette piece on the Russian way of fighting from January 2022 is here.

Still another excellent paper I found through a link at Naked Capitalism is by Myrmikan Research which looks at the historic context of the war through the centuries old British Russian rivalry: A World Gone MAD.

Now back to the daily business.

The New York Times continues its shameless pro-Ukrainian propaganda campaign that is deceiving its readers.

Wars are about geography and geography is depicted in maps.


Source: LiveUAmap - bigger
  • Kherson, the capital of Kherson oblast is at the bottom left and the northern side of the Dnieper river. It is like most of the Kherson oblast under Russian control.
  • Zaporizhzhia, the capital of the Zaporizhzhia oblast is on the upper right of the map. Most of the Zaporizhzhia oblast, south-east of the capitol, is under Russian control but Zaporizhzhia city continues to be under Ukrainian control.
  • The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power station (ZNPP) with its six reactors is next to the city Enerhodar on the south side of the large Dnieper reservoir. Since mid March it is under Russian control. Despite the common name its beeline distance to Zaporizhzhia city is 50 kilometers (30 miles). The distance by road marked with the arrows is about 110 kilometer (66 miles).

The NYT does not provide any maps to its readers. That leaves them uninformed about the geographical realities of the war and is abused to provide lies to them.

Shelling on a nearby town kills an employee of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.

Shelling near a nuclear power complex in southern Ukraine killed a foreman from the facility at his home in a neighboring town, Ukrainian officials said on Sunday.

The Ukrainian company that oversees the nation’s nuclear power plants, Energoatom, said that Russia had directed at least six shells at the town of Enerhodar, where most of the workers at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant live.

The town is under Russian occupation, and the Russians have blamed the Ukrainians for the shelling of the giant nuclear complex — Europe’s largest — and nearby residential areas, which has raised alarm around the world. However, the Ukrainians have said that it is the Russians who are firing on civilians, suggesting the intent is to discredit the Ukrainian Army.

The claim that Russians are firing at the NPP or the nearby town is delusional. The Ukrainian president Zelensky himself has said that Ukraine is firing at the ZNPP because Russian soldiers are there.

Ukraine will target Russian soldiers at Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, says Zelenskiy – video

The NYT continues:

The United States and European Union have called for the establishment of a demilitarized zone, as the fighting in and around the plant and its active reactors and stored nuclear waste has sparked grave concern that an errant strike and resulting fire could cause a meltdown or release radiation.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, said in his nightly address on Saturday that Russia had resorted to “nuclear blackmail” at the complex, reiterating a Ukrainian analysis that Moscow was using it to slow a Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian-occupied city of Kherson, where Russian conventional military defenses appear increasingly wobbly.

Look at the map. The whole area around the plant is under Russian control. How can there be any 'fighting in or around the ZNPP'? There is none. There are only Ukrainian artillery impacts fired from the northern side of the Dnieper reservoir at the ZNPP.

There is also no way anything happening at the ZNPP that could ever 'slow' a Ukrainian counteroffensive on Kherson. A counteroffensive that for very different reasons can and will not happen.

More NYT nonsense:

Contrary to the fears of some analysts when Moscow launched its invasion in February, the more urgent nuclear threat in the Ukraine war now appears to be Russia damaging the civilian plant, rather than deploying its own nuclear weapons.

Russia has no discernible interest in damaging the ZNPP. The plant is under its full control and provides useful electricity to areas under Russian control as well as to the Ukrainian side:

In fields near Enerhodar, long lines of cars carrying fleeing civilians formed on Saturday, according to social media posts and another former engineer at the plant who has remained in touch with local residents.

“Locals are abandoning the town,” said the former engineer, who asked to be identified by only his first name, Oleksiy, because of security concerns. Residents had been leaving for weeks, but the pace picked up after Saturday’s barrages and fires, he said.
...
Ukrainian employees are not fleeing but sending their families away, said Oleksiy, who left in June. Enerhodar was built for plant employees in the Soviet period and had a prewar population of about 50,000.

That alleged flight (observed by someone who isn't even there?) is also picked up in another recent NYT piece:

‘They are shooting day and night’: Civilians flee the contested region around a nuclear power complex.

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine — Increasingly frequent explosions near a vast nuclear complex in southern Ukraine and the shelling of a nearby town where many of the complex’s workers reside have accelerated a civilian exodus from the area.

About a thousand cars were backed up at a crossing point over the front line between Russian-controlled and Ukrainian-controlled territory, according to people interviewed on the Ukrainian side Sunday morning.

The flow of people fleeing picked up over the past week as explosions near the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant became more frequent, Dmytro Orlov, the exiled mayor of the town of Enerhodar, said in an interview. He said that Russian troops were firing grad rocket artillery from the town’s outskirts.

Russia has continued to blame the shelling on Ukrainian forces; Ukraine has said Russia is shelling territory Russia itself controls in a bid to discredit the Ukrainian Army.

The piece comes with three pictures.


bigger

The caption to the above picture says:

Natalia Lytvenenko decided it was time to leave Blagoveshenko, a Russian-occupied territory nine miles from the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, on Wednesday with three daughters and their grandmother. People have been trying to leave for the past week. David Guttenfelder for The New York Times

What I find curious about that picture is that there is no baggage visible inside the car. 'That's in the trunk', you will say. Sure, but people fleeing from home usually take as much as possible with them - several sets of clothing, jackets, household items, memorabilia, books, duvets etc. The kids for example would take at least some of their toys. Nothing of such is visible here.


bigger

The caption to the above picture says:

Civilian cars lined up to try to reach a Ukrainian-controlled crossing into the city of Zaporizhzhia on Sunday. David Guttenfelder for The New York Times

If this is the 'crossing point over the front line between Russian-controlled and Ukrainian-controlled territory' described in the piece quoted above, then the picture must have been taken from the Russian controlled side. How did Mr Guttenfelder cross into that area?

But maybe it is a complete different checkpoint somewhere on the city limits of Zaporizhzhia and the people waiting to pass it are coming back from a weekend getaway. Notice again the lack of visible baggage.

Now here is the third and most interesting picture:


bigger

The caption to the above picture says:

A Ukrainian couple driving through a checkpoint on the outskirts of the city of Zaporizhzhia on Sunday, toward Russian-controlled territory. Checkpoint authorities said that some Ukrainians were trying to help bring out those seeking to leave the Russian-controlled area. David Guttenfelder for The New York Times

Notice the baggage and household items on the car's roof. Now that's what I would call people fleeing form home to live elsewhere. But the caption suggests that these people 'help bring out those seeking to leave the Russian-controlled area'. Why then did they load up their car with probably everything they had?

The NYT 'coverage' of the Ukraine conflict has stopped to make any sense.

Posted by b on August 15, 2022 at 16:57 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Grab it if you can find a copy. The magazine's site is not allowing pdf downloads for some reason

Posted by: Me | Aug 15 2022 17:03 utc | 1

b quote and most relevant from a number of years back too - "The NYT 'coverage' of the Ukraine conflict has stopped to make any sense."

if you think of the nyt as having some influence, then it makes sense to maintain a particular narrative, in spite of the reality... i think this is the role of the nyt - narrative maintenance... forget about anything relevant or factual.. when it comes to ukraine - you won't get any... thanks b for the articles to read excluding the nyt of course!

Posted by: james | Aug 15 2022 17:11 utc | 2

Anyone know why the War Mapper guy at soar.earth stopped updating his maps after the eighth of August? Don't like giving traffic to livauamap.

Posted by: fnord | Aug 15 2022 17:13 utc | 3

The reality is that the Russians thought they could pull off another Crimea and sieze the Ukrainian capital, arrest or liquidate the Ukrainian leadership and set up a friendly regime. There is pretty much 0 evidence of significant south-to-north movement of AFU and Strelkov himself has said on Telegram that the first two months of the war were absolutely wasted.

People here often talk of the corruption of Ukraine, unwilling to admit that this is balanced out by the corruption of Russia and pro-Russia elements within Ukraine - which sold out Russia within a few days of the SBU putting some pressure on them, hence the retreat from Kharkov.

Only the Russian high command can really know if it really was a "feint", but if it was then it was a pretty terrible one as "3 Days to Kiev" transformed into "173 Days to the outskirts of Bakhmut (population 72,000)" and "200+? Days to Slovyansk".

The article in the USMC Gazette probably points to a decline in standards, as many commenters here have no doubt said about the US military.

Posted by: Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:23 utc | 4

The silence regarding the MCG article is not surprising. Acknowledgement in MSM is impossible. An irrational narrative is maintained by smearing opponents or ignoring them. Cogent analysis from a relatively unassailable source must be ignored. Indeed the publication of the article itself is notable--an affirmation of the USMC's maverick identity. I used to enjoy stopping by Camp Butler on Okinawa just for irony of a huge USMC base named after Smedley.

Posted by: Rodrigo | Aug 15 2022 17:27 utc | 5

In the past week, even CNN went to that border and made a piece showing Ukrainians going to the Russian part of Zaporizhia, all cars filled with stuff, like in the 3rd picture.

They showed the Russian checkpoint, and Russian soldiers inspecting cars and even distributing water and snacks for some children that were waiting in the cars.

The CNN reporter asked several time where they were going. Most answered they wete going to pick their older relatives and bring them back to Ukraine zone. When asked why, then, were they travelling with such load and their children to the Russian side, people would shrug and not answer.

This ia a clear indication there's no freedom of speech in Ukrainian side. People are afraid of being targeted by naZionalists and Ukraine's police/SBU.

All this I heard and saw in a CNN tv report. No in European media, not in alternative media, not even in Russian media. It was on CNN. Impressive.

Also, in Portuguese CNN, works (some times, not definitive contract) the only portuguese journalist telling what's going on from the Donbass side. That reporter has been arrassed, insulted, and threatened, for doing this. Telling the truth is dangerous...

The fact that reporter Bruno Amaral Carvalho is also a Communist (in Portugal, that's part of the Democratic parties, we have a very different history from Eastern Europe), only made it worse for him. People in the West don't like different thought...

Things have reached a state where NYT lies more than CNN... Where a reporter is attacked, but the Ukrainian imigrant that attacked that reporter, is glorified, even though he belongs to Svoboda (one of Ukraine's naZionalist parties).

That being said. It's one more day that I am happy that I know of MoonOfAlabama. The truth matters. Another great thread from 'b'. The Western NeoCon propagandists can't handle the truth.

As for ZNPP, since HIMARS missiles have 80Km range, all this means is Russia will have to take all that land on the north/right bank of Dnieper, up to Kriviy Rog and Dnipropetrovks, and in the West up to Nikolaev.

After violating Minsk peace agreements, and refusing the March/April peace deal with Russia, Ukraine is just getting smaller and smaller day after day. Military Summary guy antecipates that this new land grab will be done very soon. Let's wait and see.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 17:28 utc | 6

As an addendum to my comment above, I would be happy to be proven wrong about the lack of evidence of south-to-north movement of AFU, but pretty much all units involved in pushing Russian forces out of Kiev were part of Operational Command North - not Operational Command South.

From the Russian POV, there is no benefit of gifting your opponent a massive PR victory for no reason, so it can be concluded with a high degree of certainty that the Russian push on Kiev was the real deal and meant to yield major dividends for Russia.

Posted by: Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:35 utc | 7

NYET to truth coming from NYT about too many things. I'll wager part of the motivation is to further complicate IAEA efforts to inspect the ZNPP as related in the TASS interview I posted to the non-Ukraine thread barflies ought to read. It does stand to reason, however, that an Empire of Lies's media would also be filled with lies, and b proves that almost daily.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2022 17:35 utc | 8

In the second NYT photo, none of the vehicles that are visible appear to be stuffed with any sort of gear. Are these people really fleeing the war? It's hard not to be skeptical when it comes to the Times.

Posted by: Rob | Aug 15 2022 17:42 utc | 9

@fnord, of you want an alternative map, the guy from Defense Politics Asia (he says Aaaasia,lol) has a very good map, always up to date, with a good work trying to get what's true and what's propaganda in the announced "captures" or "advances" from both Ukrainian MoD and Russian MoD.

Then the guy from the Military Summary youtube channel also shows bery good videos with the daily changes in the maps, using at least 3 maps as his source. His tactics explanations and/or antecipations are also interesting.

If you don't want to "give traffic" to a pro-Ukrainian map, then those are very good alternatives.

Erwam Castel has a blog (alawara dot something) about the Donbass. There he doesn't have an interactive map, but his reports are usually acompanied by explanations of daily movements and very detailed maps of the front lines. His recent article about the capture of Pesky is very good.

Finally there's the map that shows deployed units in NATO style, it's also pro-Ukrainian, but has interesting information, and an easy way to see the evolution in ALL frontlibes every 2 days in an easy way, and since day 1. I don't remember the link, but I think 'b' posted it a few days ago.

And then there's the Wikipedia map about the Donbass war and about this Russian intervention. That's a map as neutral as it's possible.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 17:43 utc | 10

MSM (ie NYT)= "Pravda"
Potato/Tomato

I learned this in '79/80. Anyone with an eye for continuity, logic, and a healthy respect for logical truth eventually stumbles upon it.

Posted by: AParadiseLost | Aug 15 2022 17:43 utc | 11

@Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 17:28 utc | 6

Zely signed a decree today for an advisory council for Crimea de-occupation. It's so hilarious!!
Russia can't stop anywhere else other than Ukr borders. If anything remains they'll simply shoot over the new border. US will provide the weapons, including long range which, according to publicly available info, will be there in a few weeks.
If Russia wants to leave some tiny country they'll have to get rid of zely and the nazis first and then all the refugees can come back to pay back the loans zelly made for 100+ years.

Posted by: rk | Aug 15 2022 17:44 utc | 12

Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine (15082022)

High-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit the temporary deployment point of foreign mercenaries in the area of the settlement of Zolochiv, Kharkiv region. More than a hundred militants from Poland and Germany were killed and more than 50 wounded.

In the area of the Apostolovo and Sinelnikovo railway stations in the Dnipropetrovsk region, two traction power substations were disabled by high-precision air-launched missiles.

As a result of the strike of the Russian army aviation on the combat positions of the 63rd mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the areas of the settlements of Belogorka and Lozove in the Kherson region, the losses of the 105th and 107th battalions of this brigade amounted to more than 160 nationalists.

In the area of the settlement of Maryinka of the Donetsk People's Republic, an artillery strike by Russian troops on the combat positions of the 66th mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine eliminated more than 70 percent of the personnel of the third battalion of this compound.

In the areas of the settlements of Ugledar, Vodiane and Dobrovolye of the Donetsk People's Republic, more than 260 nationalists were destroyed by high-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces on the combat positions of the 53rd mechanized and 68th Infantry-Jaeger brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

In the Soledar direction, as a result of offensive actions and fire damage to combat positions, more than 50 percent of the personnel and military equipment of the 15th Battalion of the 58th Motorized Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were eliminated.

During the day, the following command posts of the 112th Territorial Defense Brigade in the Artemovsk area, the 60th Infantry Brigade in the Osokorovka area of the Kherson region, as well as manpower, weapons and military equipment, including nationalist battalions, in the areas of the settlements of Merefa of the Kharkiv region, Konstantinovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, in the city were hit Mykolaiv and Velikomikhailovka, Dnipropetrovsk region.

Destroyed: a warehouse of rocket and artillery weapons in the Zaichevskoye area of the Mykolaiv region, three ammunition depots near the settlements of Kramatorsk and Konstantinovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, as well as two fuel depots for military equipment in the Chuguev and Kovyagi areas of the Kharkiv region.

As part of the counter-battery struggle, a platoon of Ukrainian artillery guns "Msta-B" was hit in the Mayorsk area of the Donetsk People's Republic.

In addition, three platoons of Grad multiple launch rocket systems were suppressed in the areas of the settlements of Zvanovka, Soledar, Zaitsevo, as well as four artillery platoons of Hyacinth-B artillery guns and three platoons of D-30 howitzers in firing positions in the areas of the settlements of Seversk, Artemovsk, Panteleimonovka, Georgievka, Novoselka, Krestishche of the Donetsk People's Republic and Novoaleksandrovka of the Kherson region.

Russian air defense means shot down three Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles during the day in the areas of the settlements of Maryinka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Chervonoye of the Kherson region and Udy of the Kharkiv region.

In addition, two multiple launch rockets were intercepted near the settlement of Novotroitskoye in the Donetsk People's Republic.

In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 267 aircraft, 148 helicopters, 1,741 unmanned aerial vehicles, 365 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,311 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 799 multiple rocket launchers, 3,304 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 4,891 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

Posted by: Summary1508 | Aug 15 2022 17:47 utc | 13

Posted by: Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:35 utc | 7
.
What kind of Stradege are you ? No idea, talk a lot of crap!

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 15 2022 17:52 utc | 14

@rk

Yes, I agree. I was just talking about the priority for Russia and for the Ukrainians in Kherson right now: put HIMARS at least +80Km away from the Dnieper dam and from the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP).

If USA's NeoCon imperialist pigs are stupid enough to give Ukraine those 300Km missiles, than all thay means is Russia will have to grab more land to achieve that primary goal of securing the safety of the ZNPP and than dam midway Kherson and ZNPP.

When we're dealing with lunatics, we need a lunatic-proof plan. That's the Russian situation right now.

And to some degree, that's also the situation of all those in the West (Europe + Norh America) that are dealing with this regime and this MainStreamMedia (MSM).

We, the decent ones that spend time looking for the truth, either have a plan for regime change and also fiz MSM problem, or our collective future on planet Earth is doomed.

Talking about lunatics, may I ask here in this thread about the whereabouts of that USA aiscraft carrier that was threatening to make a pass in the Taiwan straight?
Has China been humiliated or has USA's military able to avoid another step in the escalation towards WW3?

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 17:54 utc | 15

Here's the link (with translation from French to English) of Erwan Castel's blog about Donbass, where he makes good analyses and places good detailed maps, like the Pesky capture (south of Avdiivka, west of Donetsk).

https://alawata--rebellion-blogspot-com.translate.goog/?m=1&_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pt-PT&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 17:58 utc | 16

And here's the link for the Defense Politics Asia site with the interactive map, that everyone should know about:

https://defensepoliticsasia.com/ukraine/

He even places the probable location of HIMARS, the location of airplanes destroyed, and placed an icon for each of the Ukrainian trenches.

It looks like Ukraine's best weapon in these 8 years was a shovel...

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 18:02 utc | 17

I'm Portuguese and I wonder why they bother to comment on western newspapers, like the NYT. It does not cross my mind to read these newspapers because they have already compromised their credibility by taking sides with Ukrainian political propaganda, in other words, most of what they publish is a lie.

Posted by: Luis Norberto | Aug 15 2022 18:03 utc | 18

"In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 267 aircraft, 148 helicopters, 1,741 unmanned aerial vehicles, 365 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4,311 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 799 multiple rocket launchers, 3,304 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 4,891 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed."

Yesterday: 798 MLRS
Today: 799 MLRS

From an average of 4 or 5 MLRS destroyed per day, to just ONE destroyed yesterday.

Is this a sign the longer range HIMARS are indeed harder to find in useful timing to destroy, a sign that Ukraine is running out of MLRS, or a sign of both?

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 18:08 utc | 19

carlos@15:
Sailing the carrier through the straits might be a bridge too far for the US Navy. But never doubt the resolve of the chickenhawk neocons to do something totally outrageous.

Posted by: morongobill | Aug 15 2022 18:09 utc | 20

A British aircraft of electronic intelligence and electronic warfare violated the state border of the Russian Federation in the area of ​​​​Cape Svyatoy Nos. ️British reconnaissance aircraft was forced out of the territory of the Russian Federation by the actions of the crew of the MiG-31 aircraft, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

Posted by: rk | Aug 15 2022 18:19 utc | 21

Another interpretation of the early days (and the sacrifices) than just a feint, is the attempt to secure as many biolabs and nuclear facilities (weapons of mass destruction) ... this could well have been a top priority in the mind of the Kremlin.

Posted by: Webej | Aug 15 2022 18:46 utc | 22

b,

Brilliant link, I tried to reply on naked capitalism


Whilst, I have, never done any military stuff, but was pretty good in a Pirat Glider, when I was kid (most intensive brain stuff, I have ever done), I find this article and links very interesting, especially, the John Boyd (military strategist) stuff, and even now, you are going on about General Ripper

"Dr. Strangelove (1/8) Movie CLIP - Ripper's Motivations (1964)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSofqNSuVy8

Tony

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Aug 15 2022 19:02 utc | 23

I think the "feint theory" of Russia's northern campaign is the height of absurdity.

If the objective was to fix troops under Ukraine's northern command in place, that could be achieved with a slow advance focusing on defensible positions and fire control. Frankly, it could be achieved by keeping troops massed across the border in Belarus! What Russia did instead was extraordinarily disorganized "thunder runs" with long and ill-defended supply lines. Miles-long convoys stalled on the highway, troops sleeping off the roadside, piecemeal attacks against dug-in positions, entire VDV companies left as sitting ducks for UAF arty in Hostomel airport, etc. None of that chaos *adds any value* to a fixing maneuver. Russia lost thousands of troops and a staggering quantity of armor and airframes, and having to reform and rearm those BTGs *delayed* the main objective of advancing in Donbas.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 15 2022 19:07 utc | 24

#4
Strelkov - a self proclaimed former "leader" of Donbass who got kicked out for his gross incompetence and attention seeking, and who is still salty about it like a little child -
is about as trustworthy as a used car salesman. Quoting him to support a point as silly as you're making is like quoting Liz Truss on astrophysics or Bonzo the chimpanzee on advanced chemistry.

(I'm actually surprised Strelkov didn't change sides back when he was thrown out and went with the ukronazis. I'm guessing not even them wanted a failed prima donna.)

Posted by: Sumguy | Aug 15 2022 19:12 utc | 25


No one should be surprised that an obscure article in MCG received no attention in the mainstream media. The Douma "chemical attack" that was exposed by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons' own technical team as a false flag got zero coverage as well. The New York Times censored my references to it in their comments section every time I cited it.

Posted by: David | Aug 15 2022 19:15 utc | 26

One look at a map of the region tells you that all of the West's rhetoric around the nuclear plant is complete BS. Of course the plant is being shelled by Ukraine, from the north side of the Kakhova reservoir. The plant is maybe 10 km from the opposite shore, but an overland route from the plant to the nearest front line is probably 100 km (rough guesses). There is absolutely no reason for Russia to store munitions or stage troops near the plant, given the geography. Ukraine is shelling the plant for the same reason that a dog licks itself, because it can.

Posted by: Mike R | Aug 15 2022 19:21 utc | 27

What the use of dissecting "reports" from the western MSM - NYT, WaPo, CNN, DW, EuroNews, Reuters, BBC, FoxNews, ABC, NBC, Politico etc, and all kinds of MSM in unfriendly countries? They are blind. Or, they simply cannot see anything else than their own "pravda."

Sure, not everyone can read Russian, its not all that easy to read between lines in a machine translation, but still it'd be much better to read even a machine translation. Only, Russian text is their MSM is cryptic, or short, without the extra filling.

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 19:22 utc | 28

what do pat lang and ttg have to say about this on their site? i no longer go their.. it is too subjective and lopsided coverage....

@ Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:35 utc | 7 quote -

"From the Russian POV, there is no benefit of gifting your opponent a massive PR victory for no reason...." au contraire!!!

tyler... the west are getting massive pr victories regularly thanks the propaganda machine - western msm... the fact is the victories have to be on the ground, not in the narrative world so many are so attached to... look at the massive pr victory from the link yenwoda gave in the last thread... turns out sometimes these pr victories are really shoddy!! nyt - massive pr victories regularly! get a copy while it's hot!! or refer regularly to yenwoda or bellingcrap dispatches! twitter is also a great source - ukk!

Posted by: james | Aug 15 2022 19:25 utc | 29

let the best PR win, lolol...

Posted by: james | Aug 15 2022 19:27 utc | 30

Bernhard gives us a link to the German version of the Wikipedia article about the 2002 Millennium Challenge war game (MC02). This is probably by design.

If I compare the English and the French articles, the English one seems to have been watered down and lacks some informations you can find in the French article. For example, there are some details about the commanders of the respective forces in the French article (machine translation):

Lieutenant General B. B. Bell was chosen to lead the 350-strong Blue Force staff, while retired Lieutenant General Paul K. Van Riper (en) of the United States Marine Corps was appointed as the Red Force commander - his staff being 90. He was chosen for the role by General William F. Kernan because he had good experience in the role[1] (e.g. with Exercise Unified Vision 2001) and was a 'sneaky sort of guy'[3].

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

Wikipedia articles are rarely funny but this one is quite tasty. A must read for those who do not yet know the MC02.

Posted by: Leuk | Aug 15 2022 19:30 utc | 31

b quote and most relevant from a number of years back too - "The NYT 'coverage' of the Ukraine conflict has stopped to make any sense."

Posted by: james | Aug 15 2022 17:11 utc | 2

Interesting.

History tells us this Yankee Propaganda mouthpiece. Aided in pushing pirate land USSA into a war to destroy and seize the last remaining pieces of the Spanish-American colonial empire.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen to a new low.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Aug 15 2022 19:44 utc | 32

Zolochev, a small urban type settlement in the Kharkov Oblast was taken yesterday. What's interesting of this Zolochev is that, it was highly fortified and it was from there Rusian city Belgorod was shelled from time to time. Also, it helps to encircle Kharkov. RF forces are moving n-w from Izyum.

Most probably within few days Artemovsk (Bakhmut) and Soledar would fall. Kramatorsk and Slovyansk will also be encircled. Once, Artemovsk, Kramatorsk, Slovyansk is taken, it'd be practical end of Ukie army.

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 19:45 utc | 33

>>>>>>: Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:23 utc | 4

There is pretty much 0 evidence of significant south-to-north movement of AFU
Wrong direction. The intention was to fix Ukrainian forces around Kiev in the Kiev region not draw forces in southern/eastern Ukraine north to defend Kiev. After Russia destroyed the fuel depots in the Kiev area, there was little sign of Ukrainian forces moving south. Instead they wasted time by "pursuing" the Russian back north to the border. Ukraine never was able to mount an operation to relieve Mariupol so Russia feint was successful.
in pushing Russian forces out of Kiev
Nah. the Russians relocated of their own volition.

You should stay away from Ukrainian propaganda it all it's forms, it's appears to be causing you brain damage.


Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 15 2022 19:58 utc | 34

Sumguy | Aug 15 2022 19:12 utc | 23

I vaguely remember Strelkov, from the videos from 2004, which The Saker published. Some of them were quite gruesome, and I am not talking about battle scenes - more like old man walking down the road in his village - somewhere in Eastern Ukraine - with his hands in the air - posing no problem to anyone...and he gets shot dead.

That did my head in. He was probably about the same age as me, and I have met many similar people.

So far as British Politicians are concerned - I am English and live in England...

They are all so completely and totally ridiculously embarrassingly useless - they got even worse since the Novichok Bollocks in Salisbury - pre-planned with press photographers, and support units on MOD Land - even Craig Murray got that - I can't believe, that the likes of people like Putin, and the rest of the Russian heirachy - Maria Zacherova, and Lavrov etc, can possibly take them seriously.

They must know, they are taking the piss - being incredibly horrible insulting them.

I don't know about Boris, but I am pretty sure Liz Truss went to Moscow, met Putin, and talked complete and utter crap - especially her knowledge of Geography - surely she can't be that thick??

And then, all the cameras are turned off, they all go to the bar in the Kremlin, after The Americans (who apparently don't drink), have gone back to their hotel rooms.

I could be wrong. I admit standards have definitely slipped, since I retired in 2004, but surely they can't be that thick?

If so, welcome to World War III

Starvation, Damnation, Freezing to Death, and then Nuked to finish us off?

I don't care about me. Well past my sell by date, but I have got a baby Granddaughter due in October.

Are all these psychopaths, really in control??

Tony

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Aug 15 2022 20:00 utc | 35

Excellent analysis, b, I also think a major component of the initial thrust, even at high cost in terms of Russian casualties was related to the (Nuland admitted) biolabs spread liberally throughout Ukraine.

https://apokalypsnu.nl/2017/08/25/us-military-bio-labs-in-ukraine-production-of-bio-weapons-and-disease-causing-agents/

Note, labs Karkov, Kiev, Kherson, all early targets of Russian rapid advance.

Posted by: ISL | Aug 15 2022 20:00 utc | 36

"The NYT 'coverage' of the Ukraine conflict has stopped to make any sense."

You are missing the point - it does not need to pass scrutiny or make sense. Remaining readers have now been trained to just believe what they are told. No need to question or think interdependently.

Congratulations, you have now arrived in The Brave New World and it is 1984!

Posted by: James Cook | Aug 15 2022 20:01 utc | 37

The NYT 'coverage' of the Ukraine conflict has stopped to make any sense.

The first thing I look at in any photograph in MSM is shadows. What compass direction is the action in the photos pointing to? I then check if the claimed direction in the text matches that seen in the photograph.

The NYT photographer has been wise enough to take the photos on a cloudy day. It is difficult to tell what is actually happening. In the last photo, the packed car is definitely driving south towards "Russia".

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 15 2022 20:06 utc | 38

Just don't read/watch/listen to western MSM, if you want to keep your mind healthy!

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 20:07 utc | 39

Posted by: Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:23 utc | 4:

People here often talk of the corruption of Ukraine, unwilling to admit that this is balanced out by the corruption of Russia and pro-Russia elements within Ukraine .....

You are comparing 'corruption of Ukraine' with 'corruption of Russia & pro-Russia elements'? I don't think you're making this comparison with your brain (if you have one, that is). The corruption of Ukraine is the willing destruction of their own country, the horrendous loss of lives of their own compatriots, and the destruction of their economy for generations to come, just to comply with the order of an entity called NATO (more specifically, an evil empire called The United State of America) to become a 'proverbial' military post against Russia. The order was that "you Ukrainians fight until the last one of you disappears so that we'll enjoy seeing them Russians taking bad wraps". And the Ukrainians have been obediently doing this for 6-months now, with no gain to show but all the destruction of their own as expected.

There are no suitable words to describe how stupid, how evil, how soulless, these antics have been. 'Corruption' is just a conceptually feeble characterization, in this case of the minds of a cabal of people (Zelensky and his oligarchy cohorts) doing an awful, awful, thing to their own motherland, for what we can't even vaguely guess. Are they doing this for 'democracy and freedom' for Ukraine's next 20 generations? Are they doing this to get rid of devils called Russians? Are they doing this to save their own lives because Russia is literally killing them day in and day out? Or are they doing this with the vague hope that obeying their NATO master might bring them goodies somehow, sometime?

I won't debate whether or not there are corruptions within Russian ranks. Russians are humans. I know of no human who aren't liable to being corrupt from time to time, or from event to event. But as far as this war is concerned, I thought the basic background is as clear as daylight at noon in late June: Ukraine nazis were harassing and killing Russian ethnic people in Donbass since 2014, Russia asked that to stop, and Ukraine shot them the middle finger. If you didn't see this picture the same as me, we are likely living on two different worlds so that debating the issue is meaningless.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 15 2022 20:09 utc | 40

What is sad to me as an American is that I know they monitor our reactions to their propaganda, and the fact that they are continuing this completely ludicrous and unbelievable (to anyone with two brain cells or more) story that the Russians are bombing their own soldiers in a nuclear power plant, means that the population of the USA is even stupider than I imagined.
How is that possible? I already had a very low opinion of their mental capacity. But this! This tops it all.
Well, maybe the "men can be women if they feel like it inside" is equally stupid. Kind of the warm-up, I guess.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Aug 15 2022 20:11 utc | 41

Off topic, but someone asked where the Ronald Reagan is: just left Singapore on its way to...?

Track it in real time: https://www.marinevesseltraffic.com/vessels/USS-Ronald-Reagan-(CVN-76)/CURRENT-POSITION/1/369970410

Posted by: Occasional poster | Aug 15 2022 20:12 utc | 42

"The NYT 'coverage' of the Ukraine conflict has stopped to make any sense." LOL. Wake up b! NYT's coverage of the Ukraine conflct has never made sense. NYT is part of the clique which pushed for the war and continues to promote it by lies and every kind of subterfuges.

Posted by: Steve | Aug 15 2022 20:12 utc | 43

I've a feeling that Nikopol will kinshalled today.

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 20:16 utc | 44

Interesting.

Putin's generals' strategies never cease to amaze me. The RF field army units in Country 404. Avoided the standard USSA/NATO shock and awe tactics of mass civilian roadkill and property destruction.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Aug 15 2022 20:21 utc | 45

No place named Blagoveshenko comes up in Ukraine on a search of Google, Google maps, or Bing equivalents. There is a Blagoveshenky cathedral in Kharkiv (nowhere near Zaphorizia).

Also, none of the crossing points over waterways from Russian-controlled territory toward Zahporizia look anything like the place pictured by the NYT.

Of course it is well established that the NYT is a outlet for pure deceit.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 15 2022 20:21 utc | 46

@ Leuk | Aug 15 2022 19:30 utc | 29

It's looking like Putin read the English version of Wikipedia

Red received an ultimatum from Blue, essentially a surrender document, demanding a response within 24 hours. Thus warned of Blue's approach, Red used a fleet of small boats to determine the position of Blue's fleet by the second day of the exercise. In a preemptive strike, Red launched a massive salvo of cruise missiles that overwhelmed the Blue forces' electronic sensors and destroyed sixteen warships: one aircraft carrier, ten cruisers and five of Blue's six amphibious ships. An equivalent success in a real conflict would have resulted in the deaths of over 20,000 service personnel. Soon after the cruise missile offensive, another significant portion of Blue's navy was "sunk" by an armada of small Red boats, which carried out both conventional and suicide attacks that capitalized on Blue's inability to detect them as well as expected.

Such defeat can be attributed to various shortfall in simulation capabilities


Yes, for sure, if "Blue" does not win it's only a simulation.
In real war USA always prevail. Wink, wink

Posted by: La Bastille | Aug 15 2022 20:26 utc | 47

Outside sources (non MsM coverage) have a large part to play these days.

***

Residents report new shelling on plant No. 6. Zaporizha. Plus or minus 15 shells, smoke seen rising.(Civilian witnesses). The exact timing is not clear from the report.
*
Russian Defense Ministry; A British Spy plane (RRR7255) violated Russian airspace North of Murmansk, and was "escorted" out by a Mig -31.
(Spying on the Northern fleet to see if they were putting to sea?)
*
"Mathias Gustavsson, Vekoslav Prebeg, John Harding, as well as Andrew Hill's trials commencing in Donetsk. 5 foreign mercs captured from Mariupol."
*
You cannot even rely on MsM to tell you anything at all. New Finnish made mortars have been seen in Ukraine, but these have never been mentioned in any "narrative (120 Swedish "trainers and 12 or so Finns, yes)
"Troops of the Ukrainian Navy using a Finnish 🇫🇮 120 Krh 85 92 120mm heavy mortar manufactured by Vammas - this is the first time these mortars are seen in Ukraine and like in other cases their delivery was not announced by Finland."

*****
Meanwhile a video on the effects of Nuclear war, (5 billion deaths) Is NOT making the rounds.
If the bombs don't get ya, the famine will.
Australia is about the only place left, and I have always wanted to visit Tasmania, in spite of the poor little devils.

***
Please don't forget Yemen. (New offensive)
Or Syria (Drone attack on US base as possible reprisal for the recent killing of a High-ranking Iranian IRGC. (presumed)
****

Now for the good news, it rained a bit in France. Nature will clear things up finally in it's own way.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 15 2022 20:29 utc | 48

Oriental Voice @ 38: you sum up the situation very succinctly and astutely. The photoshoot of Mr and Mrs Zelensky, President and First Lady of Ukraine, for Vogue magazine embodies the mindless arrogance and lack of moral distinction, of traditional and humane decorum missing in these people, their arrogant and condescending attitude to their own countrymen who they are letting be killed and maimed as if only to flatter their personal vanity and that of the so-called west personified first and foremost by Joe Biden and, even more cynically, Boris Johnson.

Posted by: Quentin | Aug 15 2022 20:32 utc | 50

For those who love the Russian war song 'Cranes', which relates the coming home of KIA Soviet soldiers from the battlefield in the form of cranes, a version sung by a Russian Orthodox priest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yy7bR6LREk
This Orthodox priest IMO sings 'Cranes' fully committed with his bass voice (with an amazing range), just as the bariton Dmitri Hvorstovsky did during his life.

Today the mayor of Kiev Wladimir Klitschko broke out in tears during his holiday in Italy, because after 26 years of marriage his wife is leaving him. Klitchko's family has said that he better should return to his career as boxer (because his present career as the mayor of Kiev is crashing as well). Mayor Klitschko however keeps recommending the citizens of Kiev to buy blankets and thick winter clothing, because of the expected winter cold.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Aug 15 2022 20:45 utc | 51

Viacheslav Volodin - Chairman of RF Duma

Ukraine is bankrupt.

Collected taxes form only 40% of the country's budget. More than 60% of which go to military spending. The monthly deficit is $5 billion.

Without the help of Washington and Brussels, Kiev can no longer fulfill its obligations to citizens.

Ukraine lost its financial independence.

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 20:49 utc | 52

The Ukrainisation of our minds. We're debasing ourselves beyond recognition. It defies nice, refined language. In German, there's a very coarse, but apt expression for those who want to make us believe such unlikely nonsense and those who end up believing it. It's along the lines of someone having taken a dump in a person's head. Denen haben sie ins Gehirn gesch*ssen.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Aug 15 2022 20:52 utc | 53

@Tyler #4

You said

The reality is that the Russians thought they could pull off another Crimea and sieze the Ukrainian capital, arrest or liquidate the Ukrainian leadership and set up a friendly regime.

Unless you show us all your copy of the Russian Army's battle plan, no one here is going to give you the least bit of credibility.

Nor is your supposed erudite analysis the least bit convincing. Crimea hosted Russian military bases before 2014; the population there is large but historically and ethnically distinct from either East or West Ukraine. Kiev, in contrast, is one of the epicenters of Ukrainian nationalism.

You said

only There is pretty much 0 evidence of significant south-to-north movement of AFU and Strelkov himself has said on Telegram that the first two months of the war were absolutely wasted.

Again, provide evidence as opposed to require others to believe you, because I don't and I think very few on MoA are going to.

Strelkov, whatever his contributions in the post 2014 fighting, has done nothing since except show everyone that he doesn't understand the strategic-military, the geo-strategic economic, the political, or even necessarily the logistic issues behind a "special military operation".

People here often talk of the corruption of Ukraine, unwilling to admit that this is balanced out by the corruption of Russia and pro-Russia elements within Ukraine - which sold out Russia within a few days of the SBU putting some pressure on them, hence the retreat from Kharkov.

This is the real world. In the real world: mistakes are made; assumptions are proven wrong; reality on the ground gets trumped by belief.

Nobody with a grain of sense believes Russia has made zero mistakes; what is far less clear is that Monday Morning commandos looking backwards - that their statements are valid.

Only the Russian high command can really know if it really was a "feint", but if it was then it was a pretty terrible one as "3 Days to Kiev" transformed into "173 Days to the outskirts of Bakhmut (population 72,000)" and "200+? Days to Slovyansk".

So you now admit that you don't have any idea, and that your first sentence was hot air. Good on you.

The article in the USMC Gazette probably points to a decline in standards, as many commenters here have no doubt said about the US military.

In fact, the article in question show that there are sane, pragmatic and realistic people in the US military - a situation which is clearly not in evidence in US generals, US politicians, EU politicians, or the socio-economic elites in those nations.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 15 2022 20:56 utc | 54

15 August 2021, the US Army started to run away from Kabul. They ran for two weeks. The "mighty" US army could do that without the Taliban looking after their safety. The sandal-clad Taliban kicked the US army out of their country. One of the reasons, why the US army won't go in to Ukraine -- another such humiliation would be hard to withstand.

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 21:00 utc | 55

My dear Tyler,
Russia doesn’t give a shit about PR. Only one side is fighting a war in the court of public opinion, because it has a dearth of trained manpower, effective weaponry, ammunition, logistics expertise and competent strategists.
Nazis it has no shortage of..yet
You’re welcome
nwwoods

Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 15 2022 21:02 utc | 56

Five foreign mercenaries who fought on the side of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were charged by the DPR, three of them face the death penalty

Mathias Gustavsson of Sweden, for the participation of a mercenary in military operations and training for the violent seizure of power;

Vekoslav Prebeg of Croatia, for the participation of a mercenary in military operations and training for the violent seizure of power;

John Harding of Britain, for the participation of a mercenary in military operations and training for the violent seizure of power;

Andrew Hill of Britain, for the participation of a mercenary in military operations;

Dylan Heal of Britain, for recruiting mercenaries.

Three foreign mercenaries, Swede Gustavsson, Croatian Prebege and Briton Harding, face the death penalty.

Posted by: mercenaries | Aug 15 2022 21:02 utc | 57

"Unless you show us all your copy of the Russian Army's battle plan, no one here is going to give you the least bit of credibility."

Does b have a copy of the Russian Army's battle plan?

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 15 2022 21:05 utc | 58

Elensky and Vladimir Klitschko are not on speaking terms anymore. Elensky has threatened to cancel Klitschko's Ukranian citizenship.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Aug 15 2022 21:08 utc | 59

On Monday, August 15, the annual military-technical forum "Army-2022" started. By tradition, Vladimir Putin delivered a speech to foreign and Russian participants.

"We are glad to once again receive heads of defense departments, military specialists from many countries of the world. Our people are proud of their army and navy, the professionalism of the defenders who brought freedom to other peoples."

"Today, in a special military operation, our soldiers honorably fulfill their duty, fight for Russia and peaceful life, step by step liberate the lands of Donbass."

“We highly appreciate the fact that our country has many allies, partners, like-minded people on different continents. These are states that do not bend before the so-called hegemon. Their leaders show a real masculine character and do not bend."

The President recalled that 1,500 different defense companies came to the forum, they brought more than 20,000 of their goods. Moreover, there are a lot of innovative civilian products in the pavilions. Thanks to defense diversification.

But still, the main thing at Army-2022 is weapons.

"All over the world, Russian weapons are valued for their reliability, quality and efficiency. The forum presents the capabilities of artificial intelligence, new information technologies, the achievements of our design bureaus. Of particular interest are promising models that will determine tomorrow's weapons: robotics, weapons based on new physical principles. They are years and decades ahead of their Western counterparts."

“By the way, the superiority of our country in weapons is spoken not only at the forum, but also in Washington. In the spring, the Pentagon prepared a report for Congress. There, American analysts directly wrote: “The United States is lagging behind because Russia began to deploy new missiles and submarines already in early 2000s, while the US won't have one until the late 2020s, and Russia is also developing new and more exotic systems."

"In the framework of the forum, international army games will be held - 6,000 soldiers and officers from 37 countries will take part in them. They will show their skills. In addition, an international anti-fascist congress will be held. The lessons of Nazism should not be forgotten. Our duty is to respond harshly to the falsification of history. Counteract Russophobia and racism."

Read on

Posted by: rp | Aug 15 2022 21:13 utc | 60

“I think the "feint theory" of Russia's northern campaign is the height of absurdity.” - Yenwoda | Aug 15 2022 19:07 utc | 22
And yet it worked.

Russia didn’t deploy enough troops to capture Kiev, and that was obviously not its goal.

As Southfront explains in its summation of Marinus’s article in the August edition of the United States Marine Corps Gazette:

“Their whole purpose was to act as a ‘grand deception’ which led the Kiev government to divert large forces from its main field army in the Donbass. This gave the Russian army the time to deploy its artillery units in large numbers into the Donbass, secure transport networks and accumulate large quantities of ammunition for the long campaign ahead. . .

Russia’s three key objectives of the ‘special military operation’ - the protection of the DPR/LPR, denazification’, and ‘demilitarization’ of Ukraine - required ‘the infliction of heavy loses on Ukrainian formations fighting in the Donbass’. Marinus is at pains to point out that none of these key objectives required Russian forces to occupy parts of Ukraine where the majority of the population identified as Ukrainian and supported the Kiev government. Again, this is a point lost on the so called military analysts of the Western media. However, in the south of Ukraine the Russian campaign served direct political aims which were to incorporate territories inhabited by large numbers of ethnic Russians into the ‘Russian world’.”

https://southfront.org/us-marine-corps-officer-expresses-admiration/

Posted by: DocHollywood | Aug 15 2022 21:15 utc | 61

Oops
"Unless you show us all your copy of the Russian Army's battle plan, no one here is going to give you the least bit of credibility."

Does b have a copy of the Russian Army's battle plan?

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 15 2022 21:05 utc | 57
.
Sure B doesn't have that plan either, but logic and common sense!!
They also ???
I would have my doubts about that!
But there is also a lack of logic in every report in the media in the West!

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 15 2022 21:19 utc | 62

Meanwhile:

The League of Chinese in Portugal this Sunday asked the Lisbon City Council and the Ministry of Internal Administration for authorization to hold a demonstration in front of the US embassy in the capital.

The protest, according to the aforementioned request, to which DN had access, is requested in favor of "the principle of One China" and against "the visit of Mrs. Nancy Pelosi, in her capacity as Speaker of the United States House of Representatives , to the Chinese province of Taiwan, which Chinese diplomacy legitimately opposed, because in light of that resolution and the agreements established with the US, it represents a violation of China's sovereignty".

https://www.dn.pt/sociedade/taiwan-chineses-em-portugal-manifestam-se-por-uma-unica-china-15092352.html

Posted by: António Ferrão | Aug 15 2022 21:32 utc | 63

Excellent, on top of the linkorama of the weekends open threads I have had a very educational couple of days. Thanks b it’s one of MoA’s best.

The sites certainly attracting a few more ii/Chindits moths back from their annual summer camp and briefing🥹

There’s something about that Myrmikan piece that seems to rankle - I can’t quite put my finger on it and will need to revisit it a couple of times more, it’s not just the vague Churchill reverence, which is always a bit of a red alert … it’s something about the US revolutionary history period and it’s grandees. Starting the rot with Woodrow Wilson is a bit late perhaps? That’s certainly leaving out a lot of dots of the setup and financing of ‘America’ in its early decades along with its Founding Fathers fictional histories.

Certainly Teddy Roosevelt had already started stomping the planet and had the US manoeuvring in the ME knowing of the Oil reserves bubbling out of the sands, the Seven Sisters were beginning to stomp and Ford was being funded with the assembly line slavery and freedom of the new fangled motor that would need feeding oil product in any colour the Hobsons Choice consumer wanted as long as it was black! The Muslim Brotherhood, Fed, FBI, French warfare, trains, killer gas, the planned and financed Russian Revolution and annihilation of the Romanovs, the Great Gamers… much is missing from these pages.

I don’t know maybe I’m over expecting from such a short piece.

I think it’s to do with the self referential American invention of Thucydides Trap. It’s almost as if the current mass failure is following that script. A tragedy that sees the fall of the hegemonic single superpower of the last 40 years. The tragedy being that of the Ukrainian natives deprived of their birthright lands that will end up in AgroIndustrial Complex and bankers hands.

Being a studier of Money in a older history than the existence of the USA - I have never really believed such a ‘young’ country with its sudden mores and ‘culture’ can in anyway be compared to actual ancient civilisations - they can’t even make decent cheese for gods sake! Never mind never rising above slavery which is rife and has probably multiple more people enslaved then ever at the height of their Civil War.

The Russians certainly threw a feint with lining up 50 miles of ‘vehicles’ inviting to be bombed ala Iraqis leaving Kuwait, whilst they made not jus the move in the south , but landed and ransacked all these biolabs with these scientists who were mysteriously released after the urgent visitation of some foreign leader.
It was hilarious as the US embassy and their puppet were moved to safe Liev/Poland and the Collective Waste started expected by tanks in Kiev where the pollacks would suddenly self immolate trying to fill bottles with petrol to throw at them; whilst shooting themselves with freely provided military weapons! That was funny. Especially the western Jounos like Sweeney in his yellow beany cursing Putin to fuck the fuck off. The feint certainly forced our MoD to show its concealed hand and has shown it daily since fe with the ridiculous daily briefing about a ‘war’ we have never declared but have obviously caused along with our old colonials.

A great history will be written but it shouldn’t be conflated with that original great ancient Athenian imperial failure and home of Democracy.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 15 2022 21:40 utc | 64

"This nearly worked when negotiations between Russia and Ukraine at the end of March in Turkey had promising results. The talks were then sabotaged by Boris Johnson's intervention in Kiev "
B

I'm not sure that this premise holds water. There are many ways to keep the pressure on Elensky that do not involve the visit of the British PM. That visit was a message to the world imo. Being agreement incpapable Nato was never going to agree with a peaceful solution. And waste all those years of planning and still not have Russia?

Posted by: K | Aug 15 2022 22:01 utc | 65

Oblomovka daydream ..Yeh I like the Cranes too. I bought their CD's thought they were brilliant..Are they still going -like litte fairys in the pond.

Might have seen them live too camping with my wife

I had no idea where the Cranes came from...

was I just sat there with my girlfriend in Dorset, camping and The Cranes were on??

thanks for the link. We have travelled my wife and I over the last 40 yeers on holiday Most people are really nice, even when we can't speak their language..they welcome us into their homes, even when we are hitch hiking. No one gave us a hard time. Everyone was extremely welcoming and nice to us. - Two waifs and strays from Lancahire. Everyone knew Manchester United even in the rural depths of India and Africa

"Formed in 1985[3] in Portsmouth, England by siblings Alison and Jim Shaw[4] and named after the many mechanical cranes around the city's docks, Cranes are best known for the singular childlike vocals of lead singer Alison. "

"Cranes - Shining Road (Video)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZnSik1HpWw

Tony

Posted by: tonyopmoc | Aug 15 2022 22:11 utc | 66

Two points, both of which are just speculation.

Regarding the "feint" to Kiev in the early stages of the conflict, I was under the impression that the main purpose of that incursion was to secure the bio warfare labs, and the security of the Chernobyl plant.

That the Ukraine forces didn't realise what was happening isn't surprising, the Pentagon had complete control of the labs, and most likely kept all information about them secret.

The "feint" story now works for both sides, Ukraine are claiming that the withdrawal of the Russian forces was their sole victory in the conflict, while the Russians can dripfeed the information they have extracted from the bio warfare labs into the UN, without coming under pressure to expose everything immediately.

Then there is this garbage from the NYT.

"Contrary to the fears of some analysts when Moscow launched its invasion in February, the more urgent nuclear threat in the Ukraine war now appears to be Russia damaging the civilian plant, rather than deploying its own nuclear weapons."

Anyone with a functioning brain will realise that the prospect of Russia initiating a nuclear conflict on it's own doorstep is beyond absurd.
Yet the nuclear threat has remained on the table and in the Globalist media.
But the reality is that the nuclear threat comes from the Pentagon and NATO, rather than from Putin.

This bit of pish from the NYT is classic projection.

But if it is projection, what does it mean.

One reading is that the Pentagon and NATO do not have the capacity to launch a conventional nuclear weapon, and must resort to the dirty alternative of deliberately causing the nuclear event at Zapawherever.

Why would the Pentagon not be able to launch a conventional nuclear weapon, they need codes don't they.
Is it the case that, for some unknown reason, Biden doesn't have the football.

But what else happened last week, oh yes, the FBI raided Mar a Lago.

What were they looking for again, oh yes, according to some sources, nuclear documents.

Was there not a photo of Putin making a present of a football to President Trump at one point.

As I said, just speculation.

Posted by: Orchard1 | Aug 15 2022 22:11 utc | 67

Wanted to search for the Klitschko video but stumpled on an older video when Vitali was still boxing. After a victory he climbs on the top rows and does the Nazi salute several times. That doesn't look to me like a intuitive celebration. He obviously does it for Ukrainian people in the audience although he did most of his fights in Germany (Hamburg is where he lived). I don't know...

Posted by: v | Aug 15 2022 22:14 utc | 68

K@63....Boris eh....Dima at Military Summary put forth his analysis of Ukrainian military high target strikes within the LDNR, Crimea and Russia. All targeting info is supplied by the Brits. How long before it's called British Crimea again....not like Brits have anything to lose, far far far, from the front.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 15 2022 22:15 utc | 69

We’re doing the Kiev discussion again? First, even the Wikipedia article on “Deep Operations” will help understand what Russia did around Kiev, Kharkov and in the south. Reconnaissance in force and follow up where it works. I have no doubt the stavka hoped that Kiev or Kharkov would fall without combat. I’d guess that they saw Kiev as a long shot and Kharkov as quite possible. They were wrong on the latter.

The feint was also because it’s what NATO expected: a race for the Capitol. Note what happened while the world was focused on Russians at the gates of Kiev. Russia secured its primary, geostrategic goa of phase I, the completion of a Crimean land bridge. What I found most fascinating about the MCG piece was the assertion that the Kiev feint was also about giving Russia time to get artillery and logistics into Donbas. While Russia made “mistakes” early on (better to think of them as bets that didn’t win), probably the gravest mistake of the conflict is that Ukraine didn’t attack in Donbas anyway. That was their moment when Russia couldn’t necessarily hold them back and Ukraine had heavily fortified fallback positions of penetrations into militia territory didn’t work.

So no consider sitting on Bankova. Russia has invaded, but instead of where you expected, they’re outside Kiev. Do you push into Donetsk and Lugansk as the plan called for? The Russians don’t seem ready to stop you there. But what if they keep coming at Kiev, what if more troops pour over the border? Never mind the south, it’s a mess and cities are going over to the Russians. What’s down there needs to fall back to defend Odessa and Nikolaev. You hesitate on what to do, waiting for input from DC types.

The hesitation was enough. Ukraine missed its chance. Causing the hesitation was costly for Russia but worth the cost in gaining the initiative and the land bridge. It’s also worth considering that while Russia had “plans” to invade Ukraine it didn’t have a plan. If this was a reaction, you end up with a pretty fluid plan built and refined on the fly from a menu of options. That’s never ideal and would very much explain Russia’s troubles in the first few weeks.

Posted by: Lex | Aug 15 2022 22:18 utc | 70

#29 Leuk

Also from the English wikipedia on the game


The rule changes following the restart led to accusations that the war game had turned from an honest, open, free playtest of U.S. war-fighting capabilities into a rigidly controlled and scripted exercise intended to end in an overwhelming U.S. victory,[6] alleging that "$250 million was wasted".[8] Van Riper was extremely critical of the scripted nature of the new exercise and resigned from the exercise in the middle of the war game.[9] Van Riper later said that Vice Admiral Marty Mayer altered the exercise's purpose to reinforce existing doctrine and notions within the U.S. military rather than serving as a learning experience.


Van Riper also stated that the war game was rigged so that it appeared to validate the modern, joint-service war-fighting concepts it was supposed to be testing.[7] He was quoted in the ZDF–New York Times documentary The Perfect War (2004)[10] as saying that what he saw in MC02 echoed the same view promoted by the Department of Defense under Robert McNamara before and during the Vietnam War, namely that the U.S. military could not and would not be defeated.

Posted by: C A | Aug 15 2022 22:44 utc | 71

“But there is also a lack of logic in every report in the media in the West!” - mac999 | Aug 15 2022 21:19 utc | 61
. . .and a nearly universal avoidance of the ample evidence debunking the “Ukraine is winning the noble fight against ‘unprovoked’ Russian aggression” narrative.

Article after MSM article fails to account for the 2014 Maidan coup, Ukraine’s 8-year shelling of the Donbas leading to 14,000 deaths, the broken Minsk Accords, and the stated goals of the Russian SMO: liberation of the Donbas, de-Nazification of Ukraine, and demilitarization of the Kiev rump-regime.

Posted by: DocHollywood | Aug 15 2022 22:46 utc | 72

@fnord | 3
Here is the link for those maps with NATO style icons of the deployed troops ("DEPLOYMENT MAP"), and with an easy way to check the progress of movements on the ground ("INVASION MAPS") in each of the fronts:

https://militaryland.net/maps/

@Lex | 68
«probably the gravest mistake of the conflict is that Ukraine didn’t attack in Donbas anyway. That was their moment when Russia couldn’t necessarily hold them back and Ukraine had heavily fortified fallback positions of penetrations into militia territory didn’t work.»

According to OSCE Monitoring Mission in Ukraine for the Donbass war, Ukraine did start attacking the Donbass, since at least 16-February. That's why many analysts say Joe Biden made a declaration on 17-February saying he "knew" Russia would invade sooner or later. He knew that for Ukraine's lunatic action, there would be a Russian reaction.

This attack by Ukraine was made on those front lines with the 8 year old trenches on both sides. Ukraine on one side started shelling Donetsk, Gorlivka, Lugansk, etc. And then the DPR and LPR resistance started firing back. From 16-February to 23-February, OSCE identified up to 1600 explosions every day, mostly on pro-independentist territory, meaning the Ukraine offensive had already started artillery preparation for the invasion.

Sinve on day 23-February Russia recognized the independence of both Republics, according to article 51 of UN's Charter, Russia's intervention is legal, and NortheWestern Ukraine's dictatorship full of NAZIS is the one invading the Donbass. Not the other way around.

Article 51:
«Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.»

"armed attack" - of Ukraine against DPR and LPR.
"self-defense" - of the Donbass people, with the help of Russia.
"maintain or restore international peace and security" - UN and Europe (specifically German and France) violated this part of the article, since they did not force Ukraine to respect Minsk peace agreements, and instead condemned Russia, didn't care about the people of Donbass, and helped (with money and lethal offensive weapons) the criminals of Ukraine's Ultra-NaZionalist dictatorship.

And here's a good link for a summary of those reports of OSCE:
https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/osce-reports-reveal-ukraine-started

Pay attention to the location (and color) of those dots in the maps: Ukraine was mainly shelling civilian areas of Donetsk, Gorlovka, Lugansk, setlements East of Mariupol, and some other towns South of Popasnaya.

So, contrary to what you say, Ukraine did attack in the Donbass. That was actually Ukraine's penultimate mistake. The last mistake was when Zelensky, in 19-February, with this attack already going on, went to the Munich Conference and gave Russia the "casus belli": threatening to expand the conflict to Crimea (Russia's territory), and getting nuclear weapons, as a NATO member, to point at Russia, at USA's request.

Then, on 24-February, we all know how Russia answered to the stepping of so many red lines. Just like the NeoCons planned in their RAND document of "Expanding Russia". Just not with the outcome they expected... because Russia is winning, taking its time, not even using conscripts, NATO weapons go to Ukraine either to be destroyed of sold in the black market (sometimes even to the Russian side), and sanctions not only don't work, they have a fatal boomerang effect that we all will witness this Winter.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 15 2022 23:02 utc | 73

That may be so but 99% of western citizens believe that:

- Putin is a terminally ill paranoid fascist dictator who wants to recreate the Soviet Union;

- The Russian armed forces have been shown to be incompetent, using ancient soviet weaponry, corrupt useless commanders, they are a weak paper tiger.

In fact, NATO commanders are now embarrassed for the Russians and „everyone“ knows the RF would be wiped out in Ukraine if a no-fly zone were set up (which would be an easy task for massively superior NATO forces)

Westerners also believe that a nuclear accident Chernobyl style would be no big deal, and anyway, would be Putins fault. So actually, it would be a good and expected thing. It would allow Westerners to feel superior morally. So why not roll the dice and get it over with?

The danger is that decision makers believe the slurry they put into the heads of their own passively suicidal citizens.

What was it Ben Wallace said back in February to his top brass? Something about how the Brits beat the Russians in the last Crimean war, and they could do so again?

“The officers laughed nervously”

Posted by: Moaobserver | Aug 15 2022 23:21 utc | 74

@Tyler4:

Your statement doesn't make any sense, and I say that as someone who has consistently said that Putin should have invaded in 2014 and was criminally negligent in not having done so.

If Russia wanted to install a friendly regime then the first step would have been to take out Elensky and his cabal, bomb the Verkhovna Rada to rubble, and eliminate the NATO puppets in charge. You agree that Russia could have done this? You agree that this is not beyond Russian capabilities?

The "three days to Kiev" claim you make: what evidence from official Russian sources do you have to back this up? Strelkov has nothing to do with the Russian government or military in any capacity whatsoever.

I agree that Russia relied overmuch on so called "pro Russian elements" who were to be bought off...if we're talking about 2015. It was in 2015 that Putin made the horrendous decision to not only not invade Ukranazistan but to stop the LDNR, whose forces were pursuing the Ukranazis who were in rout, from liberating Mariupol, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, and all points in between. Putin cultists like the Junkyard Of The Faker have been reduced to increasingly absurd justifications for this but the fact remains that in 2015 Russia could have taken all this territory with hardly a shot and with the LDNR doing the fighting and taking any casualties. Instead as it turned out Mariupol was specifically not liberated to try and buy off Azovstal owner Rinat Akhmetov. This - like the attempt to buy off other Ukrainian oligarchs - was a predictable and dismal failure. But that was in 2015.

The "178 days to Bakhmut" is like saying "it took the USSR 2½ months to recapture Stalingrad after surrounding it." What none of the accounts claiming this say is that the Ukranazi coup regime is bleeding its population and country to death trying to hold on to the Donbass and that it is in Russia's interests to prolong this as much as possible so as to keep eliminating the ability of the Ukranazi side to keep fighting. Dead nazis also can't organise a guerrilla campaign behind the frontline. The more the Ukranazi coup regime sacrifices its shanghaied conscripts and its nazi units (Kraken fire instance is almost destroyed) the less it has to offer future resistance.

Also, there is this little fact - not much discussed on the pro Russia side but evident- that Russia is not really fighting Ukraine at all. The actual war is now Russia versus the EUNATO alliance and Russia is wearing the latter down. This is actually smart strategy but clearly it was not thought up as the first option by Putin (or there wouldn't have been any negotiations for a month in Feb/March.) Back then a negotiated settlement would have kept Ukranazistan more or less territorial intact, the nazi regime in place, and the EU sanctions undiminished, but now it's full on war against the EU, and winter is rapidly coming.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 15 2022 23:25 utc | 75

'Too many broken hearts have fallen in the river
Too many lonely souls have drifted out to sea
You lay your bets and then you pay the price . . . '

The things we do for love (war)
The things we do for love (war) . . .

An old cult 10cc Classic - The things we do for love. Explains a difficult relationship and ways to resolve it.

If I wasn't half daft, computer illiterate, I'd set up the LINK to the Video (Anyone?). Almost an anthem like Hotel California IMO

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 15 2022 23:26 utc | 76

Even more remarkable, as Lambert notes, is the lack of echo it has had in U.S. media:

Y'all find that remarkable????

That's par for the course in the US.

The Democrat propaganda tools aren't going to publish or note anything anti-Uke, surely this isn't news to anyone.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Aug 15 2022 23:34 utc | 77

10cc - The Things We Do for Love

Posted by: james | Aug 15 2022 23:34 utc | 78

Moaobserver@72...for someone not in the ring, they sure are punching above their weight.....esp their Intel on hitting high value LDNR/Russian targets...doesn't affect the Brits, but will get more Ukrainians killed.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 15 2022 23:43 utc | 79

Posted by: Tyler | Aug 15 2022 17:35 utc | 7
.
What kind of Stradege are you ? No idea, talk a lot of crap!

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 15 2022 17:52 utc | 14

Tyler just sounds like your typical brain dead American.

Pay it no mind.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Aug 15 2022 23:44 utc | 80

"The New York Times continues its shameless pro-Ukrainian propaganda campaign that is deceiving its readers."

It is part of a two way street. Simultaneously, the readers demand to only see the propaganda. Times readers see all conflicts as, essentially, holy wars against the forces of darkness and evil. Providing insights that go against the narrative is seen as providing a platform for evil.

Whenever an opinion piece slips in that tells a story even just slightly different from the official narrative the NYT is flooded with threats to cancel.

One of the interesting tricks used by NYT reporters is to slip in some truth late in a long article after most people have quit reading so as not to anger the readers or the masters. My favorite is one on a jihadi stabbing in Europe. The article took special care to never mention that the stabber was Muslim. Finally in something like the 16th paragraph the reporter mentioned that the stabber said God is great in Arabic.

Posted by: My Comment | Aug 15 2022 23:51 utc | 81

One Reason that the MSM aren't discussing this is because A MARINE - not an Amateur ZioCon ThinkTank/ArmChair Analyst or a TVNetwork-Employed Pentagon Desk Driver - wrote the Assessment for other MARINES and Astute Veterans.


Full Disclosure:2ndGen 7thFlt Navy Vet - with 'then' Major Mattis as a Battalion Officer and a Hanoi Hilton POW Navy CAPT as CO at the Navy Prep School.

Posted by: IronForge | Aug 16 2022 0:01 utc | 82

https://armswatch.com/russian-nuclear-missile-control-units-have-been-compromised/

Last strike by Bellingcat. How Dilyana could have fallent for it, is beyond my understanding.

Posted by: Olivier | Aug 16 2022 0:05 utc | 83

@Lex #68, I wonder why Chaiko was sacked as commander of the Eastern Military District, if the northern campaign went so well? Perhaps Sukhovetsky would have been rewarded for his clearly superior ability at feinting, but he got sniped visiting the "totally not stalled just reconnoitering in force" column that idled on the highway for a few weeks getting picked off by drones.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 16 2022 0:07 utc | 84

The actual war is now Russia versus the EUNATO alliance and Russia is wearing the latter down. This is actually smart strategy but clearly it was not thought up as the first option by Putin (or there wouldn't have been any negotiations for a month in Feb/March.)

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 15 2022 23:25 utc | 73

I'm not sure it's safe to assume that the strategy hadn't already been envisioned. My impression from reading Putin, Lavrov, et al. is that they well understand the West's mentality (or should I say, "psychosis") and could be nearly certain that Russia's peace overtures would be rejected, but that having made such overtures would facilitate strengthening Russia's ties with much of the rest of the world.

Posted by: David Levin | Aug 16 2022 0:22 utc | 85

Never forget that, in the minds of those who control the collective West, the only good Slav is a dead Slav, whether Russian or Ukrainian. To the controllers, it doesn't matter if the Russian forces prevail or if the Ukrainian forces prevail; what matters is that the conflict go on for as long as possible, resulting in the maximum number of dead Slavs.

And we all know who controls the collective West. We're just not allowed to say it.

Posted by: Gustaffson | Aug 16 2022 0:28 utc | 86

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 16 2022 0:07 utc | 82

Kiev offensive are a feint but they did weren't done as professionally as they should at first that's why commanders were shuffled, experienced commander from Syria took over from mostly archaic Soviet era experienced and doctrined general.

Keeping their gain in Kiev and using them as in to gain more territory etc would require Russia to use more of its soldiers for territory that wasn't within their target objectives.

Instead the small VDV force used for feint can be relieved of their duty from hostile territory rather than pouring MORE soldiers into those hostile territory and then they are sent to reinforce eastern front.

You can read the article, Marinus written 'impressive' display for not insisting on their temporary gain, which is what US and NATO led forces would ahve fell for.


Now their objective are pretty clear. Eliminating all and most manpower Ukrainian government can muster and sent at them be it their regular military or Volkstrummists militants in the eastern front. The de militarization meant loss of those people forever. In the near future whether western Ukrainian becomes irreconcilable it becomes irrelevant to Russia since Ukrainian would have exhausted all or most of its available fighting age men, and that there'll be no more army level formation possible to be used as proxy in Ukraine.

Posted by: Lucci | Aug 16 2022 0:38 utc | 87

@ v 66

Nice Nazi salutes from Klitschko who was cut down to size by 2 Brits, one black, the other a gypsy. Must have hurt the Arian Brotherhood.

Went to one of his fights in Hamburg v another Brit, David Haye, who was not a heavyweight really and in one of the worst fights I've ever seen, 5 punches thrown in total as they shimmied and danced around the ring, avoiding contact, Klitschko won.

Maybe the Mayor is looking for an Arnie type Hollywood deal.

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 16 2022 0:56 utc | 88

Re: Kiev Mayor Vitaly Klitschko, his 3 children were all born at Cedars in LA and are thus American citizens....https://www.forumdaily.com/en/doch-klichko-rasskazala-kak-ej-zhivetsya-v-los-andzhelese/...In 2014 when US overthrew Ukraine's elected government, Vitaly was considered one of "big 3" hoping to be the next Prime Minister of Ukraine. Per 2014 BBC transcript of Nuland-Pyatt phone call, Nuland nixed Vitaly, told Pyatt V. should remain active but outside government, just "don't think it's a good idea" for him to be in gov. She said "Yats is the guy" for next Ukr. PM, Yatsenyuk.

Posted by: susan mullen | Aug 16 2022 0:56 utc | 89

@Tyler

The reality is that the Russians thought they could pull off another Crimea and sieze the Ukrainian capital, arrest or liquidate the Ukrainian leadership and set up a friendly regime

It's obvious that this is not the case, given that Russia knows better than anyone that Ukraine's central authority does not lie in Kiev, but in the USA. Taking Kiev would have accomplished nothing to overturn Ukrainian regime authority.

Posted by: FVK | Aug 16 2022 1:00 utc | 90

“The talks were then sabotaged by Boris Johnson's intervention in Kiev where he, speaking for Joe Biden, demanded a continuation of the war which Zelensky then promptly provided.”

Sorry, the idea that Biden instructs anyone is laughable and naive. He’s not even capable of relaying instructions from his controllers to Johnson, or wiping his own corrupt ass. Johnson got his orders direct, then went to explain the score to Zelensky. This site really needs to get up to speed on the demonic globalist cabal controlling the Western bloc and its herd of puppet leaders.

Posted by: Nick | Aug 16 2022 1:15 utc | 91

@Nick,

Good point. When speaking about the "Biden Administration" we should really just say the "Obama Administration". Obama and his people are running the show and taking orders from Obama's superiors.

Posted by: George 1 | Aug 16 2022 1:35 utc | 92

@Luis Norberto #17: Spent some time in Portugal a couple of months ago and the amount of propaganda on RTP and all the other channels is insane. Aren't there any alternative/independent newssources there?

For those who want to laugh try looking at this sobstory without laughing.

After watching it stop the movie at 01:21 and 03:16. Seems like a very respectable chap right ;)

Posted by: Gehennah | Aug 16 2022 1:45 utc | 93

b,
If you recall, I brought the good colonel, colonel Van Riper (Marinus now) to your attention on Aug 1 2021 @18:27, by citing his participation in Millennium Challenge 2002, and his resignation from the corp when all the ships he sank in the war game, were re-floated, in a case of: where the empire’s military would cheat to win in their own fake war.
I asked some pertinent questions regarding the ‘war with Iran’ in that posting. I would welcome any barfly answering those questions earnestly. No link to the post. It’s in the days archive at the bar.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Aug 16 2022 1:50 utc | 94

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Aug 16 2022 1:50 utc | 92

wow is that why he resigned? he seems like he is a very competent commander, no doubt that is why he is not listened to.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 16 2022 1:58 utc | 95

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 16 2022 0:56 utc | 86

I think Fury probably tends toward right wing polititcs. I'm not sure of the distinction between Travellers and Gypsies, the lifestyles are similar but Travellers aren't Roma.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 16 2022 2:00 utc | 96

also it was Wlad Kitchko who lost to Fury, not Vitali. I haven't heard anything about Wlad, but I'm sure Vitali is a typical slimy ukrainian politician.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 16 2022 2:04 utc | 97

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Aug 15 2022 23:34 utc | 75

Tucker Carlson might show it, but otherwise it won't be on Fox either.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 16 2022 2:07 utc | 98

Does anybody fully understand any of this horse manure? I have given up. I recently browsed the The Moon of Alabama website. There are quite a few academic and esoteric articles about this s**t storm that I cannot even comprehend, or care about.

Posted by: yawn | Aug 16 2022 3:08 utc | 99

@ yawn | Aug 16 2022 3:08 utc | 97

go back to sleep yawn... you didn't get enough sleep, lol...

Posted by: james | Aug 16 2022 3:13 utc | 100

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