Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 25, 2022

Ukraine Previously Cited High Casualty Rates - It Is Now Lowballing Those Numbers

In June several Ukrainian officials admitted that their army had some 700 or even more casualties per day. The numbers were played up to gain access to more 'western' weapons. Since then Ukrainian officials have stated much lower totals of killed and wounded than make sense.

The lowball casualty numbers now are probably convenient to increase moral in Ukraine and to hide from its supporters the inevitable defeat that the Ukrainian army will experience.

This report must be seen in that light.

Russia Hits Train Station in Deadly Attack on Ukraine’s Independence Day - New York Times

A Russian missile hit a train station in eastern Ukraine, killing at least 22 people, President Volodymyr Zelensky said Wednesday, in an attack that came as Ukraine celebrated its Independence Day and brought home the harsh reality of the six-month-old war.

The attack, which took place in an area about 74 miles east of the city of Dnipro in Ukraine-controlled territory, was one of the deadliest strikes on the country’s railways since April, when more than 50 people were killed when a rocket slammed into a crowded railway platform in eastern Ukraine.

The previous attack on a train station which killed some 50 people in Kramatorsk was done with a Ukrainian Tochka-U missile fired from a position under Ukrainian control. Since 2019 the Russian military no longer uses Tochka-U missiles. They have been completely replaced with the more effective Iskander missiles. (A month ago the Donetsk People's Republic was said to have received some old Tochka's for counter battery fire against the Ukrainian units that fire at Donetsk city.)

Now lets look at yesterday's attack which happened near the Chaplino railway station in the Dnepropetrovsk region.

Direct attacks on trains or train stations have been quite unusual in this war. A few months ago there were some night attacks on trains in the western regions of Ukraine hitting at weapon transports that had come in from the 'west'. But an attack with high casualty numbers is unusual. Russia must have been sure that the train transported military and not civilian stuff.

Here are pictures of the result of yesterday's attack:


There is also a short video clip which shows that the passenger train was standing next to freight train that carried military vehicles.




That huge attack 'killed at least 22 people'?

Each of the carriages has 10 larger windows each for a compartment that sits six passengers. Additional people may stand or sit in the aisle. At least four carriages were destroyed. If the train has been reasonably full it carried more than 300 passengers. 22 killed is thereby a quite low estimate. In reality there were probably several hundreds casualties.

Here is what the Russian military now says:

An Iskander missile has hit a military train at Chaplino railway station in Dnepropetrovsk Region, destroying over 200 AFU servicemen reserve and 10 units of military equipment on their way to Donbass war zone.

That estimate of casualties of the attack on the Armed Forces of Ukraine sounds more reasonable to me.

Posted by b on August 25, 2022 at 12:37 UTC | Permalink

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Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine (25082022)

Five combat aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force were hit by high-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces at the Mirgorod military airfield in the Poltava region.

One Su-27 and one Su-24 were destroyed. Two more Su-27s and one Su-24 were critically damaged. The enemy's losses in manpower amounted to up to 30 nationalists.

In the Dnipropetrovsk region, as a result of a precision strike on the Dnipro military airfield, three aircraft of the Ukrainian air force were destroyed.

A high-precision strike of the Russian Aerospace Forces in the area of the settlement of Novy Bug in the Mykolaiv region destroyed the command post of the grouping of Ukrainian troops "Kakhovka".

64 servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and seven units of military equipment were liquidated.

As a result of a direct hit of the Iskander missile on the military echelon at the Chaplino railway station in the Dnipropetrovsk region, more than 200 servicemen of the AFU reserve and 10 units of military equipment en route to the combat zone in the Donbas were destroyed.

In the village of Shepetovka, Khmelnitsky region, high-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed the workshops of an enterprise for the repair of armored weapons and multiple rocket launchers, including foreign-made ones.

In the city of Zaporozhye, the production workshops of the Iskra plant were hit, in which the repair of air defense radar stations and counter-battery warfare was carried out.

The production buildings of the Migremont aviation repair plant, where the restoration of aviation equipment of the Air Forces of Ukraine was carried out, were also destroyed.

During the day, seven AFU control points were hit in the areas of settlements: Velikomikhailovka, Dnipropetrovsk region, the city of Nikolaev, Artemovsk, Perezdnoye, Kaleniki, Soledar of the Donetsk People's Republic and Poltava, Zaporozhye region, as well as manpower and Ukrainian military equipment in 149 districts.

In addition, four ammunition depots were destroyed in the areas of the settlements of Gulyai-Pole of the Zaporozhye region, Krasnaya Gora of the Donetsk People's Republic, Zmiev of the Kharkiv region, Zhovtnevoye of the Mykolaiv region and a fuel storage for military equipment in the area of the settlement of Golitsinovo of the Mykolaiv region.

During the counter-battery struggle, two platoons of Grad multiple launch rocket systems were suppressed in the areas of the settlements of Artemovskoye and Sukhaya Balka, as well as three platoons of D-30 howitzers in firing positions in the districts of Novgorodskoye, Veseloye, Yevgenovka of the Donetsk People's Republic.

Russian air defense means shot down five unmanned aerial vehicles in the areas of the settlements of Kamenka, Kharkiv region, Urozhnoye, Vasilevka, Zeleny Gai, Donetsk People's Republic and Kamysh Zarya, Zaporozhye region.

In addition, 19 shells of the Himars multiple launch rocket system were intercepted in the areas of the Kakhovskaya HPP, the cities of Kherson and Donetsk.

Ukrainian troops continue artillery shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant and the city of Energodar.

During the day, the Ukrainian artillery struck seven times from large-caliber guns at the NPP area. The shelling was carried out from the firing positions of Ukrainian troops in the areas of the settlements of Nikopol, Manganese, Verkhovetarasovka and Chervonogrigorovka, located on the opposite bank of the Kakhovsky reservoir.

The enemy's firepower was suppressed by the return fire of the artillery of the Russian Armed Forces.

In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 273 aircraft, 148 helicopters, 1,808 unmanned aerial vehicles, 369 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4384 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 819 multiple rocket launchers, 3340 field artillery and mortars, as well as 5048 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

Posted by: Summary | Aug 25 2022 12:45 utc | 1

As far as the train station is concerned, it was reported as a war crime on Western TV and nobody doubts the low number 22 in view of the pictures that are also shown there.
But the spectators for the most part do, too! Because nobody believes the media or Sylenski anymore!

Posted by: m98 | Aug 25 2022 12:54 utc | 2

All Ukrainian information has little to do with the reality. Yesterday an uk offensive happened somewhere in the Kherson area: one tank, three howitzer platoons destroyed as well of the infantry. Not one loss Russian side. No bunker, easy for the Russians. With the bunkers, it takes more time, but the killings are massive when the uk servicemen refuse to surrender.

Posted by: Olivier | Aug 25 2022 13:00 utc | 3

At this point, it seems that the Western plan to slowly bleed Ukraine has failed. Checkmate is imminent; a final gambit by the West is therefore also imminent.

Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 25 2022 13:14 utc | 4

Ukraine is nothing more than spewing fakenews propaganda.

Odds are this was loaded full of HiMars shells the UkraNazis were planning on using on their own cities. THey never report that casualties from all the attacks the make against their own cites. Or worse yet, this was part of an planned attack on the Nuclear plant . The casualties from those would have been far worse, most likely.

Posted by: Doc May | Aug 25 2022 13:21 utc | 5

At a certain point the rift between what the MSM is "reporting" and the stark reality becomes so huge that some sort of reaction occurs. Does the narrative implode on itself? Do the spinsters pivot so frantically that they get dizzy? What about the excess mortality? Kinda hard to "smuggle" those kinds of casualties....On the other hand it's worked for the CDC so updates you know.

At this point the rift is so large and constant between the fictionalized news and what appears to be reality, that somethings got to give. Example: There are no nazis! Cue the dozens of swastika tats. The blew up a maternity ward! Cue the UAV footage of them setting up firing positions. IT goes on and on...the evil Rooskies have by now run out of ammo at least a dozen times and lost every general twic- twice!

Posted by: Chevrus | Aug 25 2022 13:28 utc | 6

"Checkmate is imminent; a final gambit by the West is therefore also imminent."

I think Putin and the Russian HQ have (wisely) chosen to wait. Wait till the wolves in Kiev eat themselves through a series of assassinations and counter-assassinations.

Remember the overall goal of the SMO is annihilation of the Ukrainian army AND the denazification of the Ukrainian political personnel.
The former is achieved on the ground, the latter is best left to the different factions of the Kiev political clique. Fascist regimes in terminal form of rot are good at that. Add the billions of $$$ that certainly arouse people and you have a recipe for a blood bath. Plus it'll be highly entertaining to us.

I'm sure Vlodymir is more afraid of his "comrades" than he is of Putin. At least Putin won't torture him to get the ID of his off-shore accounts filled with stolen money...

Posted by: Nanker | Aug 25 2022 13:30 utc | 7

Talking of casualties
" ...In Ukraine, the ultra-nationalists call Russians “Colorado,” a reference to the bugs that infest potato crops. These insects carry the red and yellow colors of the St George’s ribbons that patriotic Russians wear. This is the same logic that made possible the biological weapons attack on Russian soldiers in the Zaporozhie that was carried out last week by Ukrainian forces, sending the victims to intensive care treatment for botulism poisoning. That development probably did not get coverage in your daily newspaper..."
Gilbert Docotorow's column today on Nazism and Ukraine.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 25 2022 13:36 utc | 8

Trains have timetables!

If this was a civilian train, it would be running according to a public timetable with a well-known train number, destination, and point of departure. Something like:

Train 080 K

From: Kyiv-Pasajyrskyi
To: Dnipro-Holovny
Departure: Thursday, 25.08.2022 @ 23:05
Arrival: Friday, 26.08.2022 @ 08:12

The news did not say what stations the train was coming from or where it was going. None of the 200+ wounded passengers or other survivors were interviewed on television.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 25 2022 13:49 utc | 9

Posted by: Summary | Aug 25 2022 12:45 utc | 1

Many thanks, as well as to b - this is a very helpful post.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 25 2022 13:55 utc | 10

More than 200 soldiers killed the blow was delivered by the Iskander. 10 pieces of equipment were also destroyed. Zelensky's blatanty lie at the UN the echelon destroyed by the missile attack turned out to be a military one

Posted by: Sam | Aug 25 2022 14:13 utc | 11

Bevin @8

The Colorado beetle is black and gold, as is the ribbon of St. George.

Always enjoy your commments BTW.

Posted by: aubanel | Aug 25 2022 14:15 utc | 12

Just an observation: when it comes to reporting on the results of Russian attacks, the Ukrainian side as well as the MSM are merely talking about "casualties" or "people", they do not use the word "civilians" anymore... consumers of the MSM will still think "oh, dead civilians" but in the end they're probably just soldiers of the AFU.

Posted by: Zet | Aug 25 2022 14:24 utc | 13

Going to MoA to get my daily dose on news of SMO I like to compliment "b" with his tireless effords
to prove that the reports made MSM on the facts in Ukraine are not true.
Reading my daily newspaper, which is the echochamber of the "Kiev Truth" I have overcome my
Cognitive Dissonance condition. Now I am reading the newspaper curious over what they will report.
Enjoying to see how misinformed they are. A lot of work for "b" will be still coming. Keep going
However misinformation about war is not new. An antiwar book about the situation on the front of
WWI comes to my mind. Written by Erich Maria Remarque; It's all quite on the Western Front.
Truth will prevail.

Posted by: DutchZ | Aug 25 2022 14:26 utc | 14

Our western rulers have the power to keep this Ukrainian war going at our expense. After all, we have no voice. Good idea of them to build the Northstream 2 pipeline, but let’s not use it and watch the price of natural gas go up from $150 per thousand a couple years ago to $3,200 today. That is the equivalent of $530 per barrel of oil. Then let’s watch our factories close because of high energy costs. Let’s see our empty stores. And one striking piece today from Enjoy the Decline is a French classroom filled with European Values: watch the teacher has everything under control. Just like our European politicians do. I guess it will keep going until it doesn’t.

Posted by: meshpal | Aug 25 2022 14:27 utc | 15

i do not trust nummers, it is after all the fog of war, we all had 2 years of covid nummers, what did we got from it? or better said where are we now?

more division more experts,more distrust,more nummers and statistics...

i really do not like this game

a friend of me told me once:
if the words have meanings but no one trust them or do not care,do not trust their nummers since they are here only to lie ,

even more in the fog of war

Posted by: Svorane | Aug 25 2022 14:30 utc | 16

According to intel slava...
Two power units of the Zaporizhzhya NPP were switched off as a result of emergency protection operation on Thursday - authorities

I think they only had two reactors going. Is the plant going into a long shutodwn?

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 25 2022 14:33 utc | 17


Ukrainian military echelon is covered at Chaplino station

A new photo has appeared on the network from the Chaplino station in the Dnipropetrovsk region, which was hit by a missile strike yesterday.

The Kiev regime accused Russia of attacking a train with civilians.

However, a Ukrainian serviceman is visible in the photo, as well as an army truck standing on the extreme platform, which indicates that it was the military echelon that was hit by the missile strike.

Posted by: Chaplino | Aug 25 2022 14:36 utc | 18

"Arestovich assured that the destruction of the train would not go unanswered:

- The President warned - there will be serious blows - there will be serious answers. We wait. [Answer] It will be iron.

- This answer can be about the Crimea?, - Feigin specified.

- And we'll see, what to guess? Of course, you can guess. But let them sit, and everyone thinks whether it will fly on their heads today or not. It will arrive, for sure, you can not even doubt it. Tomorrow morning there will be some news, a maximum of a day or two, if you need some kind of preparation, additional reconnaissance of serious, bold targets. In the near future, something will arrive in response, - Arestovich assured."

Posted by: venice12 | Aug 25 2022 14:38 utc | 19

Military necessity : NATO killing civilians.

War crimes : Russians killing Ukrainian military personnel.

Freedom of the press : the 'western' press regurgitating Ukrainian Truths, from Ukrainian Pravda.

Propaganda : a twisted freedom of expression from the Russian MoD.

Posted by: DilNir | Aug 25 2022 14:45 utc | 20

The news did not say what stations the train was coming from or where it was going. None of the 200+ wounded passengers or other survivors were interviewed on television.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 25 2022 13:49 utc | 10
Which TV?
All you get to see in the west are pictures!
Oddly enough, there are probably no TV teams at the front, no western ones!

Posted by: mac98 | Aug 25 2022 14:45 utc | 21

A stray thought. How is it that the BBC and other nuisances believe that the 'international community' is on Ukraine's side? When this amen choir is mainly constituted of NATO members?

Posted by: DilNir | Aug 25 2022 14:48 utc | 22

'Estimates' of ANY military situation anywhere in the world are either guesses, the repetition of one side's 'truth' or figures advanced for a political motive on the part of a country (usually NOT one that is a party to the conflict. The same is true of body-counts.

Posted by: DilNir | Aug 25 2022 14:52 utc | 23

Ze will have no problem winning this years WEF Depopulation Award.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 25 2022 14:55 utc | 24

they do not use the word "civilians" anymore
Zet | Aug 25 2022 14:24 utc | 14
very important.

grandma, increase your social media score and earn some heating this winter by tossing some freedom fire cocktails at Team Red!

children, if you accept food from Putin, you will wind up on our "peacekeeper" hit list.

remember when you are freezing to death in the not EU (Britain) or the EU, there are no civilians.

with no heat, through the courageous leadership and foresight of Bojo and Schultz and Micron, the Russian winter will be coming to you Europeans this World War 3. keep warm through military action!

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Aug 25 2022 14:55 utc | 25

Putin surely hopes Zelenski stays in control of the situation in Ukraine for a while longer because he's a believer in the Napoleon maxim... never interrupt your opponent when he's making a mistake ...and he's making a lot of them. One of putin's goals was to demilitarize the Ukraine and Zelensky has been very accomodative. Sending reinforcements into indefensible positions where troops are getting decimated and are in danger of encirclement, instead of saving lives and equipment by ordering a withdrawl to a more defensible position, really makes one wonder whose side he's on.

Posted by: animas | Aug 25 2022 15:00 utc | 26

Posted by: DilNir | Aug 25 2022 14:48 utc | 22

"How is it that the BBC and other nuisances believe that the 'international community' is on Ukraine's side?"

Because the BBC is the official propaganda organ of the British government, so its job is to try and make people believe that "their side" is the right one and that there are more of them than "the enemy".

Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not.

Posted by: Lemming | Aug 25 2022 15:01 utc | 27

The 22 dead figures might be the civilian casualties, but of course they won't report the military casualties - for morale reasons and because they want to claim it as a barbaric attack on mere civilians. Of course, one could blame Russia for causing some "collateral damages", which should be avoided as much as possible (unlike, say, US in Iraq war), but that's definitely not terror-bombing of purely civilian targets. The body count is enough to show this, as B showed.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 25 2022 15:05 utc | 28

@ Chaplino | Aug 25 2022 14:36 utc | 18

you wouldn't happen to have a link with a picture, would you? thanks..

not sure what happened to my earlier post..

Posted by: james | Aug 25 2022 15:06 utc | 29

This has just popped up on Twitter, which would answer a lot of questions if true.

The Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant has been disconnected from the Ukrainian energy grid and phone lines/internet connection is also down in the site, announced Energoatom.

Posted by: JohninMK | Aug 25 2022 15:06 utc | 30

More re post 30, so fire damage not strategic decision by the look of it.

Rubryka informs about this, referring to the Energoatom's Telegram.

The company noted that the fire occurred at the Zaporizhzhya NPP ash dumps, next to the Zaporizhzhia NPP.

"Today, August 25, 2022, due to fires at the Zaporizhzhia NPP ash pits, located next to the Zaporizhzhia NPP, the last (fourth) communication line of the ZNPP with the energy system of Ukraine, PL-750 kV Dniprovska, was disconnected twice.

Three other lines of communication were earlier damaged during terrorist attacks.

As a result, two working power units of the station were disconnected from the network. Thus, the actions of the invaders caused a complete disconnection of the ZNPP from the power grid — the first in the history of the plant," Energoatom emphasized.

They added that the energy system of Ukraine currently provides the NPP's own power supply needs through the communication line between the ZNPP and Zaporizhzhia TPP.

There are currently no comments on the operation of automation and security systems. Start-up operations are underway to connect one of the power units to the network.

Posted by: JohninMK | Aug 25 2022 15:09 utc | 31

@ Clueless Joe | Aug 25 2022 15:05 utc | 28

how long before the ordinary person clues in that sending weapons to ukraine is prolonging the war, as opposed to stopping it... i suppose the idea is to portray unkraine as still very much in control of the situation - nato in control of the situation - financial capitalism in control of the situation, and etc. etc... it seems to me the opposite is very much the case, but the western msm will be the last to convey this... ultimately what happens when reality and what the western narrative authors spin are so out of whack as they can never be put together again? is this like humpty dumpty falling off the wall?

@ juliania - i hope the fire gets under control...

Posted by: james | Aug 25 2022 15:10 utc | 32

Is this the Lužane bus bombing ? Or the Grdelica train bombing ?


I only ask because it seems expectations are incredibly high when NATO is observing others rather than engaging directly itself, although as a proxy participant it sometimes excuses itself from accountability

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Aug 25 2022 15:16 utc | 33

@ Paul Greenwood | Aug 25 2022 15:16 utc | 33

i wish that was on the cover of all the western msm papers today... it would help explain the hypocrisy and take some wind out of it too...

Posted by: james | Aug 25 2022 15:19 utc | 34

@ paul

on some important level i do believe the ordinary person is important... it is us who make up the planet... the 1% might like to think it is their planet and they can do what they want with it, but i don't see it that way.. at some point things have to change.. call me a naive optimist, lol...

Posted by: james | Aug 25 2022 15:34 utc | 35

Grdelica train bombing Is what immediately came to mind. Also do not forget the NATO lies and manipulated film of that heinous war crime

Posted by: Exile | Aug 25 2022 15:38 utc | 36

@ Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Aug 25 2022 15:19 utc | 35

Read "Listen, Little Man!" by Dr. Wilhelm Reich.

You want guidance and advice, Little Man.You have had guidance and advice, good and bad, through thousands of years. It is not because of poor advice that you are still in your misery, but because of your pettiness. I could give you good advice, but, as you think and are, you would not be capable of putting it into action in the interest of all.

Suppose I advised you to stop all diplomacy, and to replace it with your professional and personal brotherliness with all shoemakers, carpenters, machinists, technicians, physicians, educators, writers, administrators, miners or farmers of all countries; to let all shoemakers of the world decide the best way of providing shoes to all Chinese children; to let all miners find out by themselves how people can be kept from freezing, to let the educators of all countries and nations find out how newborn children are to be guarded against later impotence and mental disease, etc. What would you do, Little Man, confronted with these matter-of-course things of human life?


‘Am I nothing at all? You don’t acknowledge one decent trait in me! After all, I work hard, provide for my wife and my children, I lead a decent life and serve my country I can’t be as bad as all that!’

I know you are a decent, solid, industrious being, like a bee or an ant. All I did was to disclose the little man in you who ruins your life, and has done so for thousands of years.You, are GREAT, Little Man, when you are not small.Your greatness, Little Man, is the only hope left. You are great when you carry on your trade lovingly, when you enjoy craving and building and painting and decorating and sowing, when you enjoy the blue sky and the deer and the dew and music and dancing, your growing children and the beautiful body of your woman or your man; when you go to the planetarium to learn to understand your sky, or to the library to read what other men and women think about life.You are great; when as a grandfather you hold your grandchild on your knees and tell him about times long past, when you look into an uncertain future with his trusting childlike curiosity. You are great, as a mother, when you lull your newborn to sleep, with tears in your eyes, you hope, out of your full heart, for his future happiness, when, every hour through the years, you build this future in him.

Act accordingly, thereafter.

In the midst of global war, global climate change wrought by a headless, mindless, economy, even the most psychotic of Dr. Reich's rants teem with sanity. As the commenters on this website veer towards revanchist nationalism, I think Dr. Reich has a renewed relevance. Nationalism is a mental pathology. It should be done away with. Nothing makes this more obvious than the conflicts ongoing in Europe, the home of nationalism, where hundreds of millions have died for flag and nation, i.e. for nothing at all.

Posted by: fnord | Aug 25 2022 15:43 utc | 37

@ fnord | Aug 25 2022 15:43 utc | 38

that's great! thanks!

Posted by: james | Aug 25 2022 15:46 utc | 38

Just a few days ago I was wondering about Awe & Shock as practiced by natso in all their campaigns over the decades of hagemony, by actual bombers.

Looks like it’s on!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 25 2022 15:48 utc | 39

@DunGroanin | Aug 25 2022 15:48 utc | 39

Why would anyone believe what Ukr says? Sure there are Russian troops in Belarus but the exact number surely isn't found in Ukr announcements.

Posted by: rk | Aug 25 2022 16:07 utc | 40

A train with 300 passengers is a long, low-density target. Unless it derailed at high speed, it would be hard to kill more than 20 with a missile, because only one or two cars would be hit.

Posted by: David Sant | Aug 25 2022 16:15 utc | 41

If it had been a civilian train, we would have been shown images of passengers' blood-stained luggage and children's toys, like in Kramatorsk.

Posted by: Brendan | Aug 25 2022 16:26 utc | 42

As speculated here in the past couple of days, the Russians appear to have disconnected ZPP from the Ukrainian electricity grid. This was the biggest single source of Ukrainian electricity and the largest ongoing income-generating export (electricity to the EU). News story This explains the shelling, the international uproar and the fear porn.

An argument can be made that the West is sincere in its concerns about radiation. Yeah, an argument can be made.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 16:33 utc | 43

@ animus 26

I have expressed an opinion a couple of times here that the US know they will lose, and so they now want as many military aged Ukrainian men to be slaughtered as possible to avoid a military coup against the US regime in Ukraine. Interested in the barflies thoughts.

Posted by: Tim | Aug 25 2022 16:34 utc | 44


Arestovich gave an interview in 2019 to a Ukrainian television station where he laid out the Ukrainian strategy with NATO and vis-a-vis Russia. Very damning. Evidence of war crimes. Real Nazi shit. One of the drug addicts Putin was talking about. His finale comes at the end of a rope.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 16:39 utc | 45

I am repeating this question I placed at the end of the last thread:
And, how is Russia going to settle this politically even after victory.
The population in Western Ukraine is overwhelmingly against Russia.
They are going to be supported by NATO and Russia cannot occupy the whole Ukraine.

Posted by: Mario | Aug 25 2022 16:46 utc | 46

Non-corporate sources are reporting Russian troops at Ukrainka, Shevchenkove and Zelenyi Hai. That pretty much puts an end to the "Ukrainian counteroffensive" propaganda.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 16:48 utc | 47

My guess is that it was a combination of a passenger train carrying troops plus the freight train carrying the equipment and vehicles of the same troops. There can't have been only one missile involved: witness the destroyed car in the first picture which is some distance from the trains, but surrounded by other vehicles which are less damaged if at all. Probably it was a full-scale attack with aircraft plus stand-off missiles, and maybe the destroyed car contained soldiers trying to shoot at the aircraft (helicopters?). Pure speculation of course.

Posted by: BM | Aug 25 2022 16:54 utc | 48

@David Sant A train with 300 passengers is a long, low-density target. Unless it derailed at high speed, it would be hard to kill more than 20 with a missile, because only one or two cars would be hit.

The Iskander warhead is 500 to 700 kilogram of high-explosives fragmentation or fuel-air explosives. According to Russian claims, the area of destruction from a single warhead is 25,000 square meters, or about two football fields. Especially the later one is enough to destroy even a long train and everyone in it. Besides that all carriages in the pictures look burned out.

Posted by: b | Aug 25 2022 16:58 utc | 49


The answer to your question: International Crisis Group

Posted by: Sara | Aug 25 2022 16:59 utc | 50

More primary source news that contradicts the West's lies about Russia's economic performance in the face of hellish sanctions. Today Putin met with Head of the Federal Tax Service Daniil Egorov and began with this overview which should be combined with the context I provided Monday:

President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Daniil Vyacheslavovich, despite the problems that our ill-wishers and enviers are trying to create for us, nevertheless, the filling of the budget is still proceeding at the right pace, oil and gas revenues are growing, and, what is especially pleasant, non-oil and gas revenues, I think, by 24 percent recently. All this indicates the stabilization of economic indicators, at least at this point in time. We understand the risks, we see them in the medium term, they have not disappeared anywhere, this is all clear.

Nevertheless, of course, I would like to hear from you how you assess the situation, what is the filling of the budget as a whole, and how the plan is being implemented.

D.Egorov: Thank you very much, Mr President.

With your permission, I would start with the results of the first half of the year. Our consolidated budget grew by 32 percent compared to the first half of 2021, which is plus 4.1 trillion rubles. Of course, oil and gas revenues and the conjuncture played a significant role in this filling. But, as you rightly said, 24 percent is, by the way, two trillion rubles – non-oil and gas revenues.

And here it is very important to emphasize that the situation when there was a question of filling the economy with liquidity due to the restructuring of the banking system, the assistance and the system of measures that was implemented made it possible, in fact, both to help enterprises to obtain working capital, and to help people support demand. Therefore, even if we look at the income tax, it comes very smoothly, and this is plus 14 percent compared to last year.

Non oil and gas revenues are up as are income tax reciepts, the latter matching COLA increases nationally. The banking system has adjusted. Sanctions have grossly failed, although risks haven't disappeared, nor do they ever in reality. Russia continues to have essentially zero debt and continues to fulfill all its financial obligations. The hopes that the SMO would drag down Russia's economy haven't been fulfilled; instead, Russia's contributing billions of rubles to rebuilding Donbass without any problems whatsoever.

The difference between Russia's economic management and that of the collective West is stunning--recall that the 2021-22 Outlaw US Empire Balance Sheet showed a deficit of over $25 Trillion. I recently read that IRS agents are now being weaponized, i.e. armed like all other federal agents. I wonder when they'll storm Wall Street?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2022 16:59 utc | 51

@47 It certainly does. Zelenyi Hai is 20k west of Lviv.

Posted by: dh | Aug 25 2022 17:03 utc | 52

Addition to b @49--

The missile warhead would explode above ground directing its blast force downward and outward to give a blast area that large.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2022 17:04 utc | 53

@Mario, 46

Saakashvili, Georgia, 2008. Supported by NATO. LOL.

Posted by: Dandoph | Aug 25 2022 17:05 utc | 54

@ fnord | Aug 25 2022 15:43 utc | 37

that's great! thanks!

Posted by: james | Aug 25 2022 15:46 utc | 38

Yes, it is, james! As I posted previously, I have been listening to Chopin's etudes and meditating on the foolishness of 'cancel culture' - and then I erased that bit as perhaps not on topic -- but it is. Thank you, fnord!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 25 2022 17:06 utc | 55

Mario @46--

Much depends on how denazification proceeds, and nobody currently has an answer to that issue. You'll just need to wait and see like the rest of us.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2022 17:08 utc | 56

more casualties from that one in "the western" US and it ran head on into a freight train heading to the "east". odd that any trains are still running in "the ukraine" to begin with.

Posted by: the pair | Aug 25 2022 17:08 utc | 57

At a certain point the rift between what the MSM is "reporting" and the stark reality becomes so huge that some sort of reaction occurs. Does the narrative implode on itself? Do the spinsters pivot so frantically that they get dizzy?

Well, here in the "great white north" anyways, they still spinning fantastical tales with a straight face. No dizziness apparent, so ernest are they. And simmering outrage. They should all get Oscars. CTV, Global and the CBC which often the worst. Shameful our public broadcaster is so duplicitous.

Posted by: Drinky Crow | Aug 25 2022 17:09 utc | 58


The town in Nikolayev region, 5 km west of Olenivka. You know, where the fighting is? Genuis.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 17:10 utc | 59

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 25 2022 16:59 utc | 51
" I wonder when they'll storm Wall Street?"

I suspect they will be storming main street, not Wall Street :(.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 25 2022 17:11 utc | 60

Non-corporate sources are reporting Russian troops at Ukrainka, Shevchenkove and Zelenyi Hai. That pretty much puts an end to the "Ukrainian counteroffensive" propaganda.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 16:48 utc | 47

@47 It certainly does. Zelenyi Hai is 20k west of Lviv.

Posted by: dh | Aug 25 2022 17:03 utc | 52

Thank you, Gilbert; also dh - that is very helpful.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 25 2022 17:16 utc | 61

@59 Beg your pardon. That Zelenyi Hai didn't show up on my google map. For a moment you had me thinking Russian paratroops are in Lviv.

Perhaps you can provide a link to your non-corporate sources?

Posted by: dh | Aug 25 2022 17:23 utc | 62

Boris Johnson in Kiev yesterday again stated there should be no negotiation or dialogue with the Russian Federation, and announced another weapons package for Ukraine military.

Taiwan (?) announced the delivery of “attack drones” for Ukraine military, passing through Poland.

Scholz went to Canada to presumably set up deals to help stem Germany’s energy crisis, but the quickest fix - LNG -went off the table immediately in favour of a hyped hydrogen scheme involving technology which does not yet exist and won’t be available for at least three years.

Macron told the French people to prepare for a grim winter marked by price spikes and fuel shortages - as “freedom has a cost”. He declared the end of “a certain carefreeness” alongside future reductions in availability of goods and resources. He is describing a wartime economy.

Much has been made of the alleged “failed decapitation strike” by the Russian military at the start here of WW3. In fact, it was NATO who had gamed a decapitation strike - the full court press on the Russian economy - and then rolled the dice on it without a backup plan.

Posted by: jayc | Aug 25 2022 17:25 utc | 63

You have to bear in mind that Ukraine is an artificial entity in a world of "Imagined Communities".
Galicia, historically has always been part of Poland. Even after Poland's demise in 1792 (?)when it went to Austria Hungary it remained a region ruled by Poles.
Other parts of Ukraine were taken from Hungary and Rumania, both will happily take them back.
Most of Ukraine is and long has been Russian and Russian speaking. Its culture is inextricable from Russia's. It will be going home.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 25 2022 17:26 utc | 64

" US know they will lose, and so they now want as many military aged Ukrainian men to be slaughtered as possible to avoid a military coup against the US regime in Ukraine." Tim@44

That is not the way it works. Each additional, useless, death increases the likelihood of a popular uprising against the Americans , merrily sending slavs to their death.
Mind you, both of us are operating on the basis that rational calculation is at work in Washington. In fact all decisions there are taken with one eye on the elections and another on the banks. The only rationality in their decision making is of the sort that offends the basic rules of reason: it displays a callous disregard for humanity, which some people call God.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 25 2022 17:32 utc | 65


Give a man fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime...


Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 17:44 utc | 66

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 25 2022 14:33 utc | 17

RE ZNPP Shutdown

Intel Slava Z
🇷🇺⚡Two power units of the Zaporizhzhya NPP were switched off as a result of emergency protection operation on Thursday - authorities

My understanding is ZNPP is a mixed installation with 4 nuclear units and 2 conventional units. Two of the nuclear units were in cold shut down prior to the 404 attacks.

It is not clear which 2 of the remaining units have been shut down.

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 25 2022 18:00 utc | 67

Mario @ 46

I just wanted to toss in a couple thoughts about your question. So - here in Canada, Germany’s Scholz recently paid a visit, a 3 day one, with some future-looking, industry-launching agreements in mining, and hydrogen. Likely a lot more was discussed. One would expect that a solid Western nation like Canada, intertwined with the US economy, would have very close relations with Western economic powerhouse, Germany. But that’s not the case. I think Germany is Canada’s seventh largest trading partner?? It’s just that the other two of the European big powers are based here (UK and France) Yet now… this visit by Scholz… and if Canada had arranged for that with approval of the UK and France some sort of Armageddon would have been visited on us which I’ve been watching for and not seeing. Therefore, I conclude: they are in cahoots. Wonder what could cause these three to unite like that??

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Aug 25 2022 18:02 utc | 68

@bevin, 64

Ukraine was a Bolshevik construction. Now it reverts to its true nature - "the Ukraine" - and will dissolve into its component parts: the Russian, Kieven (Kiev/Volhynia/Podolian) and Galacian. Galacia is actually its own thing - Ruthenian and not Polish - but Ruthenians have been so divorced from their mother culture for so long they are likely beyond redemption and will probably return to their historical poverty that they enjoyed under the Hapsburgs. I doubt the Kievans will have the power to hold on to Volhynia and Podolia without Russian assistance.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 18:03 utc | 69

@66 Ah telegram. A mine of information. I'm not saying you are incorrect about Russian advances Gilbert. Reports from the front are always interesting but I prefer official confirmation.

Posted by: dh | Aug 25 2022 18:05 utc | 70

My @ 68

Oops - if Canada had arranged that without approval….

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Aug 25 2022 18:05 utc | 71

This story has two big problems.

First, it relies on Ukrainian sources to claim the train station was hit. I have a rule for this. Once someone is shown to be a liar, I don't listen to them any more. If you know they lie, what's the point of listening? Ukraine brags about its ability to lie, calls it 'information war'. So, I see no reason to believe or even listen to anything out of Ukraine unless it has some serious corroboration.

Second, it relies on the New York Times. As an old leftist, I know the NYT is a bunch of liars. I've seen so much evidence that the NYT lies over the years, that at this point they'd have to make a big change of management, fire a bunch of people, announce new policies for truth in journalism, and then back it up for a few years of actions before I believe anything the NYT says. After all, these are the people who buried the story that Dubya had a mic and radio reception for a Presidential debate where he was supposed to be up there answering questions on his own. And many, many other lies over the decades.

So, I'd seen the headlines about the attack in Ukraine. And I'd ignored them. A story from Ukraine about something the evil Russians did has no credibility. The fact that the NYT is reporting this, makes it even less credible.

But, congratulations to Moon. You managed to get a NYT/Ukraine lie into my head because I read this article. Its funny, you do the best you can to keep these sorts of liars out of your head, but then they attack from some unforeseen direction and slip around the defenses and before you know it there are NYT lies in your head.

Posted by: Charlie Ko | Aug 25 2022 18:05 utc | 72


And that is why you will always be a propagandist's wet dream.

You can find official confirmation there, just not from Western sources. Anyway, follow your own path. Evolution has a way of weeding out the weak.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 18:08 utc | 73

RIA Novosti reports today that Mr. Putin has authorized an increase of the authorized strength of the armed forces by 137,000 servicemen: : Путин подписал указ об увеличении количества военнослужащих.

From the article it’s evident these are privates, not officers/NCO’s. Since 137,000 is approximately equal to this spring's draft of 134,500, these likely will be contract professionals to replace draftees not allowed to serve out of country (barring declared war). Replacing thereby not only the 15% of contract BTG's composed of draftees in non-combat rolls (stated criterion: not handle complicated machinery), but also the one third draftee BTG's incorporated in the TO&E of combat units (which could not be deployed to the Ukraine.) After six months basic, advanced, and unit training, they should increase the professional combat forces available by a third, well before the spring rasputitsa. With the 135,000 draftee BTG’s, plus their 65,000 NCO’s/officers, available in draftee combat units to back them up, in case the balloon goes up.

Posted by: Seward | Aug 25 2022 18:10 utc | 74

@m98 #2, rk #40

Hey Ostro, now that you're posting under seven different pseudonyms : mac998, mac98, mac4, mac99, m98, rp, rk (instead of four previously, e.g. last July 31st: ostro, ppp, rk, mac4), couldn't you take inspiration from the seven dwarfs to give each of your characters a different personality? Because I have to say that the similarity of expression and content for each one is currently quite annoying.

This will make the dialogues you have with yourself more interesting. You could even go so far as to insult yourself, for I see no reason to reserve your insults for others:

Can you please stop pretending to be two different commenters? It’s glaringly obvious.

Posted by: S | Jul 31 2022 19:06 utc | 78

The 'S' is for sucker...? Who are you sucking...?😋

Posted by: ppp | Jul 31 2022 19:46 utc | 83

Posted by: Leuk | Aug 25 2022 18:15 utc | 75

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 25 2022 18:00 utc | 67
Who says that in the AKW 2 of 6 are conventional?
This is bullshit ... all 6 are nuclear reactors !!!

Posted by: mac98 | Aug 25 2022 18:19 utc | 76

@73 Oh dear. Now Gilbert is getting nasty. Perhaps if you had told me your 100% factual non-corporate source was telegram back in your original post none of this idiotic discussion would be necessary.

Posted by: dh | Aug 25 2022 18:30 utc | 77

What is really going on at the nuclear power plant in Enerhodar? CNN is saying the Ukrainians have told them it has been disconnected from the grid, Al Jazeera says the Ukrainians have told the UN that it hasn't.

Posted by: dp | Aug 25 2022 18:37 utc | 78

Train wreckage

Posted by: Timur Garajew | Aug 25 2022 18:39 utc | 79

@Macpott, 78

The people will survive. A lot of the businesses won't. That second one will spark social change over a generation or so. Long game.

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 18:39 utc | 80

Russian MoD reports are generally reliable. This gives the Russians a surplus of moral capital in the propaganda war, something akin to the role of the World Service ('This is London Calling...') during WW2. In this respect the Ukrainian approach has resembled that of the Third Reich with Arestovich in the role of Goebbels. MoA functions like an underground resistance circular aggregating information from the Russians, while the Ukrainians target their own population with relentless misinformation for fear of a general uprising or a July 20 plot against Z.

I would love to get a short wave radio and tune into a secret Russian broadcast where correct factual information was pumped out 24/7.

'This is Moscow Calling...'

Posted by: Patroklos | Aug 25 2022 18:40 utc | 81

Posted by: Leuk | Aug 25 2022 18:15 utc | 75
Rest assured that I am one person and always write under the same name!
You... are probably a bit, well, a bit very anxious, to put it mildly?
And ... my life experience when it comes to Russians is certainly enough for some of their kind ! Despite everything, I stand behind Russia because I hate Nazis even more!
But I will NOT let people like you provoke me with their morbid delusions..
First of all, check your attitude towards the topic!

Posted by: mac98 | Aug 25 2022 18:44 utc | 82

dh | Aug 25 2022 18:30 utc | 77

He's trolling you, dear. Old-timers here do that to newbies.

Posted by: Annette | Aug 25 2022 18:45 utc | 83

reponse to dp | Aug 25 2022 18:37 utc | 79

Here's the explanation from German state media. Here

Posted by: Carols Megna | Aug 25 2022 18:51 utc | 84

@84 Not sure who you're referring to Annette. I've been here since billmon days. Don't know when Gilbert showed up but of course he is very welcome. I just don't share his faith in telegram.

Posted by: dh | Aug 25 2022 18:51 utc | 85

dp | Aug 25 2022 18:37 utc | 79

It was disconnected after Ukr strikes today broke a power line. After repairs 1 was reconnected, 1 not.
You must be one of the very few CNN viewers.

Posted by: rk | Aug 25 2022 18:57 utc | 86

@59, 61, 62 etc, on Zelensky Hai: Google is your friend. And Wikipedia: " Zelenyi Hai may refer to several places in Ukraine: Contents. 1 Cherkasy Oblast; 2 Chernihiv Oblast; 3 Chernivtsi Oblast; 4 Dnipropetrovsk Oblast ...."

Posted by: Narvin | Aug 25 2022 19:01 utc | 87

Bruised Northerner [68]

Scholz and Habeck had a nonsense trip to Canada which goes nowhere since CETA has not been to Canada‘s advantage and France has bigger stakes than Germany.

Reading Canada papers Siemens might have leaned on Ottawa because now Joly wants to permit 5 more turbines to leave Canada yet Russia says it has no turbines in Canada

I suspect Siemens wants to deliver 5 replacement turbines for the ones now in need of servicing and offline in Portovaya to assuage Rusdian anger by replacing them up front

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Aug 25 2022 19:03 utc | 88

Arioch | Aug 25 2022 19:00 utc | 89

That is one roll every 3 or 4 days! No wonder there's an energy crisis in Germany.

Posted by: Annette | Aug 25 2022 19:04 utc | 89

@mac98 #83

Only four people in the bar use the name "Sylenski": mac998, mac4, m98, mac99. Check in the search bar. And give the three others my greetings.

But, I think about it... Maybe you ARE the seven dwarfs!?

Posted by: Leuk | Aug 25 2022 19:05 utc | 90

Since 2019 the Russian military no longer uses Tochka-U missiles. They have been completely replaced with the more effective Iskander missiles.

Right, and who are you gonna believe - Russia's MoD or your lying eyes?

Total coincidence of course that pro-RU telegram was warning civilians to avoid Sloviansk and Kramatorsk railways for evacuation the night before the strike, and the day of the strike Russia took credit for hitting Sloviansk and Barvinkove rail stations.

It's one thing to justify and defend killing civilians because you think "your side" is on the right side of history. Glibly insisting against all evidence that the victims of a crime actually did it to themselves is just sick.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 25 2022 19:09 utc | 91

@85: what is story around the disconnected nuclear power plant?

Since MSM report in passive voice - ... was disconnected ... - it was likely disconnected by the Ukrainian side and not the Russians.

Why would the Ukraine disconnect the power supply? Was it a) bad targeting of HIMARS? or was it b) an attempt to force a meltdown, by cutting the power supply to the cooling system? Which will run on Diesel- generated electricity or electricity from a nearby conventional power Plant. But only until diesel generators and the other plant are blown up, the lines are blown up, or the npp runs out of diesel fuel.

Either scenario would allow the Ukraine to put the blame for the meltdown on the "incompetent invaders."

Am I missing something?

Posted by: Marvin | Aug 25 2022 19:10 utc | 92

ONLY posting because it is a technical issue which I have personal experience.

About the Trudy/Scholtz confab:

Posted by: jayc | Aug 25 2022 17:25 utc
LNG -went off the table immediately in favour of a hyped hydrogen scheme involving technology which does not yet exist and won’t be available for at least three years.

So they re trotting out the old "hydrogen power fixes everything" chestnut again? Three years? HAHAHAHA!!! When I worked for a valve company 20 years ago (yes, 20) hydrogen power was "any day now". Mercedes Benz/Daimler was looking for very specific, hi-tech valves for a big project with various levels of Canadian gov't out in BC... Lotsa money, lotsa big talk. Resulted in a couple prototype buses which didn't seem to match the hype.

And now... MB-D says no hydrogen personal vehicles, commercial vehicles still a potential. Maybe MB-D had been given a pre-publish copy of the WEF "you will own nothing, including personal vehicles" edict. Sure, hydrogen trains, trucks, busses and ships... why not airplanes too, eh?Pull the other leg.

A lie repeated... still not truth, even 20 years later. I'll believe it when I see it. Right up there with thorium and liquid-sodium nuclear reactors.

Back to lurking.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 25 2022 19:11 utc | 93

Arioch @ 89
Annette @ 92

Deutch packages are smaller than American, so this is not as extreme as it reads. Still, the number suggests wasteful usage. You must credit Russian propaganda where it is due as here.

Posted by: Erik S | Aug 25 2022 19:11 utc | 94

@ various

What is really going on at the nuclear power plant in Enerhodar?

Hybrid warfare. I think the NPP is like the Gazprom turbines, the Russians are fucking with the West, cat toying with a mouse, pulling their chain, pull my finger fart kind of stuff. The gas and electricity will flow less and less till West sits down and makes a new security agreement with RF. My guess RF in winter will allow just enough energy to flow to meet basic humanitarian needs but not enough to support the EU's economy. All except for UK, RF might go hybrid medieval on UK's ass. Hmm, thinking about it maybe not, UK seems to be self immolating.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 25 2022 19:17 utc | 95

An up close video of the wreckage
Only 25 people died?

Posted by: Brendan | Aug 25 2022 19:23 utc | 96

Posted by: Gilbert | Aug 25 2022 17:44 utc
Give a man fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime...

WOW, serving it up big time.

The real world rendition of that is:
Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 25 2022 19:24 utc | 97

Just noticed that Twitter video's the same as: Posted by: Timur Garajew | Aug 25 2022 18:39 utc | 80

Posted by: Brendan | Aug 25 2022 19:25 utc | 98


Well, finally you were right, you are not one of the newly hatched macs. I apologize.

I'm embarrassed, now I'm missing a dwarf.

He should pop up soon.

Posted by: Leuk | Aug 25 2022 19:27 utc | 99

Big problem for alternative energy is not technological or application it's control over it for the rentier and legacy monopoly class. Most alt energy is downward scalable, local and individual, for example wind power financed by a municipality or neighborhood, solar panels on a private house. Even hydrogen could bring many new small providers into the business. The big problem and big delay with alt energy is how to transfer the monopoly control of the oil, gas and electric industry over to green energy. They will only allow it to happen on new monopolist terms.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 25 2022 19:30 utc | 100

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