Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 21, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-137

Only for news & views related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Comments

This article by Pepe Escobar, written before the identity of the killer and the mode of triggering the bomb (by remote control, as it turns out) were known, makes the same points I repeatedly made earlier:
1. The Ukranazis and their owners in NATO are fighting a different war from the one Russia is fighting and winning, that is, they’re fighting a war of terror.
2. Unlike the much repeated opinions of self important blowhards like the Faker and Martyanov, Russia’s marvellous missiles are irrelevant in countering this war of terror.
3. Russia cannot afford to ignore it and act as though these terrorist strikes are irrelevant. Not reacting after strikes in Belgorod and Crimea has resulted in this attack in Moscow and every display of “restraint” only emboldens the enemy.
I do not agree with Pepe in his assertion that Russia denazifying Elensky will leave it nobody to negotiate terms of surrender with. There is no point to even thinking of negotiations now, since the Ukranazi coup regime is not even notionally anything more than a puppet of NATO.
https://www.unz.com/pescobar/fly-like-an-eagle-darya-dugina/

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 22 2022 13:38 utc | 201

Steven Starr | Aug 22 2022 13:33 utc | 202
If they use DNS-blocking like in Germany here with rt.news it is easy to escape. There should be many detailed informations about it here on the blog. Just that I do not find them right now. It depends on which operational system you use.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Aug 22 2022 13:40 utc | 202

Darya’s killer has been identified and Russian is demanding the killers extradition. Dugin gave a statement that retaliation is petty for Russians, the war must be won. This signals a wider war with more economic pain for the collective West, desperate and without common purpose.
https://tass.com/society/1496717

Posted by: Goran | Aug 22 2022 13:47 utc | 203

@ mac998 179 180
Here is an interview with an ‘expert’ on international terrorism, Alexander Brass, who noted that any properly organized assassination (he’s referring to Mossad) is the combined efforts of different teams, with different compartmentalized purposes:
https://www.europereloaded.com/skripal-case-israeli-expert-on-the-work-of-special-agents/
I suggest Natalia Vodk was part of the surveillance team. Got it wrong, buggered off before she actually witnessed who got into what car. I don’t think Natalia Vodk is the end of the story.2

Posted by: Ant. | Aug 22 2022 14:06 utc | 204

In German media still no word about the fact that the perpetrator was recognized!
They still speak of a partisan organization in Russia as the culprit who allegedly confessed to it!!!

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 22 2022 14:07 utc | 205

Gerrard White @194
About the wars, the last U.S. president had promised to end wars and he actually ordered a withdrawal from Syria, but nothing happened. If things are so corrupt that the commander in chief’s orders are blatantly ignored, it doesn’t matter who people vote into office. And this was a president who actually tried to keep his promise unlike Zelensky, for example, who got elected on a promise to end the war in Donbas but did the exact opposite. The whole Western world is rotten to the core, and I think things are inevitably going to get a lot worse before they get better.
No, it’s not fair to the little guy and it’s not his fault.

Posted by: aquileia | Aug 22 2022 14:13 utc | 206

Message and reason for the fact that Russia has not yet synchronized the nuclear power plant with Russia
Russia needs about 20 diesel emergency generators and only has old ones!
Is therefore not sure that this emergency power lasts about 3 days!
Now none of the doffy German consumers know from TV whether they should laugh or not!
Hypersonic but no 20 emergency power systems, those that do not come from Soviet times.
Everything is just ridiculous what is told on TV!

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 22 2022 14:14 utc | 207

whether the nuclear power plant still exists in Sebtemper???
.
MOSCOW, August 22. /TASS/. Russia would like IAEA specialists to make a fact-finding trip to the Zaporozhye NPP (ZNPP) as soon as possible, but it is unlikely to take place earlier than the last days of August or early September, Russia’s permanent representative to international organizations in Vienna, Mikhail Ulyanov, said on the Rossiya-24 round-the-clock TV news channel on Monday.
“We would like such a trip to take place as soon as possible, but there are objective restrictions. It requires proper preparations: logistical, organizational and even diplomatic to some extent. It will take some time, so such a visit is unlikely to become possible before the very end of August or the first days of September,” he said.
Ulyanov expressed the hope that a visit by IAEA experts would eventually materialize this time.

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 22 2022 14:18 utc | 208

Steven Starr | Aug 22 2022 13:33 utc | 202
Can anyone please suggest how I can access the Strategic Culture Foundation website?
One simple solution is the Tor browser.
Link to Tor Download
If the website is still blocked, you have to click the broom icon in the top right corner of TOR for a new identity. This works well in Germany, where many websites are blocked.

Posted by: Iguana | Aug 22 2022 14:27 utc | 209

Posted by: Bringoutyourdead | Aug 22 2022 11:02 utc | 164
To call them commies is a diversion from who is controlling things, which is the corporations.
The above statement is true then it must be corporations with a death wish. And if not a death wish, a desire for a contracting economy, a reduction in demand for their products, an increase in social instability and riots, the creation of a domestic environment which will result in valued employees relocating to new opportunities in stable Singapore or ??.
What we appear to be witnessing is a EU political class that is not under the control of the corporations and is also totally non-responsive to the needs of its citizens. As Paul Greenwood states at # Aug 22 2022 10:58 utc | 162 the available evidence supports Chris Lasch and the thesis presented in Revolt of the Elites.
The exception to this would be corporate America which stands to benefit from a collapsing EU economy, an increasing US dollar (makes imports cheaper and facilitates purchase of distressed EU firms), an increased global market share as EU firms fail, the ability to poach top foreign talent, and significant benefit to the US MIC and related firms due to need for increased defence spending to counter the “russian threat” created by EU intransigence and incoherent diplomacy.
But then we are left with the question – “Why would a supposed sophisticated EU elite, one acting primarily in its own self-interest (Lasch), commit seppuku by creating domestic social disorder, de-industrialization, and the transfer of economic primacy to the USA?”

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 22 2022 14:33 utc | 210

Let’s talk about the daily attacks on Crimea.
Source: https://t.me/s/asbmil
“The Ukrainian military attempts to “strike” Crimea multiple times a day using various drones, usually rigged with explosives, sometimes not rigged with anything.
All of them are unsurprisingly shot down.
Crimea is a fortress.
Crimea’s Air Defence umbrella is extremely good, you can go as far as calling it the best in the world. At the moment, there’s no other place on earth as heavily defended from air attacks (other than Russian mainland) as Crimea. However, it is extremely easy to get cocky and forget that no air defense system is perfect & every air defence system can be penetrated.
This is a mistake many analysts make, they assume Crimea is untouchable. – it is not, it never will be.
These “meaningless, desperate” drone “attacks” by Ukraine are not actually meant to cause damage, they’re meant to find holes in Russia’s air defences — under strict NATO watch.
Americans and Brits observe every interception by Russian Air Defence systems in Crimea. They are clueless about Russian Air Defences in a combat setting. Russia’s domestic systems are only showing their true capabilities now.
Every interception gives them more data and more information on how to break it. Ukraine is doing this for 2 reasons:
1. Domestic propaganda
As Ukraine fails to gain any success on the front lines, launching drones at the “occupiers” make headlines every single time in Ukraine. The regime supporters rejoice, Zelensky looks strong and determined.
2. NATO orders
Let’s not forget that the US, EU & UK are not providing “help” to Ukraine.
They are lending them money, with interest. Every bullet and weapon has its tab. This will take decades to pay back. — in turn, the Americans want data. They want a lot of data.
They want every piece of data they can get.
Data on Russian missiles, air defence systems, operational structure, Russian gear and especially, russian radars and their capabilities.
This shows that NATO is simply clueless about Russia’s Air Defence capabilities, even when we’re talking about Pantsir S1 and Buk M1, as well as the S300.
The domestic versions of these systems differ drastically from the export versions we saw in action in the Syrian war and elsewhere.
There’s no doubt in our minds that they will figure out a way to break the Crimean AD umbrella, but it will be short lived.
While these systems can be overwhelmed, they cannot be overwhelmed to a large extent unless they are destroyed.
Russia is not using any of its newest systems to intercept these drones, they are using the domestic variants of systems we already saw working in Syria and in other conflicts — but those were all the export variants.
Russian domestic systems are clearly much, much more capable than their export variants.
When Ukraine and NATO figures out how to effectively overwhelm the current umbrella, Russia has another 3 generations of systems that NATO has never seen in action before.
The systems fielded by NATO are still behind the S1, M1 & S300 in every aspect. 3 generations behind.
Air Defence is Russia’s strong suit and always has been, but don’t assume that Crimea cannot be hit, that is simply stupidity.
It will be hit, it is just a matter of time.”

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 22 2022 14:37 utc | 211

Ooopz.
All bold. My bad.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 22 2022 14:38 utc | 212

buggered off before she actually witnessed who got into what car.
Posted by: Ant. | Aug 22 2022 14:06 utc | 208
Very possible.
Or they wanted to kill both of them because this woman moved in the same building about a month ago, the FSB says. So she could have easily placed the bomb in the parking and explode it anytime she wanted. Or shoot or stab her.
But they waited for that event to take place because probably both of them were supposed to be in the car driving back from it.

Posted by: rk | Aug 22 2022 14:38 utc | 213

From today‘s clobber list;
…. Strikes on positions of 72nd Mechanized Brigade near Zaitsevo, 12th Territorial Defence Brigade near Artemovsk and 101st Territorial Defence Brigade…..
Appears to be a misprint – I don’t think Kiev has a 12th Territorial, might this be the 120th Territorial ?
Note – the 72nd Mech must have taken 100% casualties since Feb. I can not imagine these soldiers are capable of anything but huddling in a bunker. Tragic waste

Posted by: Exile | Aug 22 2022 14:49 utc | 214

Posted by: aquileia | Aug 22 2022 14:13 utc | 210
Now you complain that the US elects governments that lie about ceasing to war on other nations, and nothing may be done by the US people to stop this – huh ?
If the whole US is so corrupt it ..has no idea about what to do, then who is going to pay the price of this incompetence and incoherence
The people that’s who – if the people pay the price then it’s their responsibility/obligation to make sure they elect and reform their system of government – if not it will be done for them, by outsiders, who will make them pay the price of defeat
If you say that the whole western world is corrupt and you include the ordinary people in that corrupt you are merely lapsing into an easy/lazy despair which condones every failure as inevitable and fails to offer/allow of any solution
But there are always solutions, as this war has made quite clear

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 22 2022 14:50 utc | 215

In German media still no word about the fact that the perpetrator was recognized!
They still speak of a partisan organization in Russia as the culprit who allegedly confessed to it!!!
Posted by: mac998 | Aug 22 2022 14:07 utc | 209

Not anymore. I heard the story of Natalia Vodk just now in 4 p.m. news on radio station BR24

Posted by: Helmuth von Moltke | Aug 22 2022 14:54 utc | 216

they’re meant to find holes in Russia’s air defenses
Melaleuca | Aug 22 2022 14:37 utc | 215
That can be a reason but the ones used in Crimea to shoot down drones so far are mobile air defenses, already used in Ukr, nothing new for nato. Once they shoot, they move. There is one that can even shoot while moving at 30-50km/h, don’t remember exactly. Bases and airfields are visible from satellite anyway.
So far this seems to be mostly for propaganda reasons, to find some easy target for MSM, like that airfield with ammo stored near the planes. Or maybe Russians have jammed some satellites and they can’t see well Crimea. It is possible to use radio or lasers to blind satellites, everyone does it.
They also keep shooting at that Antonovsky bridge, for MSM reasons because there aren’t any other reasons. Today they’ve managed to kill some repair workers and people crossing were wounded shooting himars at it. At tonight’s news in natoland I expect to see great Ukr success, Putin is stuck and hides in his bunker.

Posted by: rk | Aug 22 2022 15:07 utc | 217

Guilt for the murder of Darya Dugan falls not only on Ukraine. It also falls on America, Ukraine’s puppetmaster.
Dugan’s blood is also on America’s hands.
What role did the US’ fake news campaign against Russia play in Darya Dugina’s assassination?
https://twitter.com/AKorybko/status/1561691154369871879?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 22 2022 15:07 utc | 218

At NTV and WElt so far not a word, just rambling again at 5 p.m. about partisan groups..

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 22 2022 15:08 utc | 219

Sushi | Aug 22 2022 14:33 utc | 214
« « But then we are left with the question – “Why would a supposed sophisticated EU elite, one acting primarily in its own self-interest (Lasch), commit seppuku by creating domestic social disorder, de-industrialization, and the transfer of economic primacy to the USA?” » »
There are many answers available – the élites think their interest lies in subsuming EU society and economy into a colony of the US, so that their position power and influence will be enhanced
They can think this partly because this construct has been formed over the past two or three generations, that the ideologies cultures and practices of the US ruling class have taken root, both government and corporate, and because resistance from the EU people has reduced to near zero
This is a classic process of colonisation – the outsider power presents as all powerful in arms, allies this force with a number of ideologies and practices which appeal to the significant also minded and dominant local élites, so forms a deep alliance which can collapse the country for plunder
This is a no brainer – that’s a big part of the appeal of colonisation, if you can get away with it : these US/EU ruling classes are incompetent and incoherent – witness this war and the effective force of fully industrial well organised warfare being fought and administered by the Russian government, with, apparently, full support and approval for the people of Russia
With the proviso that’s it not yet quite a done deal – defeat by the Russians may have the effect of putting this colonisation into reverse

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 22 2022 15:15 utc | 220

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 22 2022 13:38 utc | 205
BRI is “up and running”. BRICS is “up and running”. SCO is “up and running”. AU55 is “up and running.” These FTAs have delivered valuable, political and technical assistance to member states. I’m not surprise that you are unfamiliar with For the past two decades the G7 press corpse ignored the steady development and economic integration of these institutions as such scribblers have the last 100 years manufactured consent to colonial foundation (“shared history”) on which G7 supply chain “security” rests. And they still do, although every G7 summit joint communique articulates the anxiety, or fear, of economic losses posed by the effective convergence of political, financial, and institutional objectives of so-called unaligned, third-world governments as well as schemes to “destabilize” inevitable opposition to the violence of their “global leadership”.
This year RU “situational leadership” in UA –Europe’s political frontier–is no accident. Nor is it an isolated demonstration of E-W, N-S “ethnic” antagonism. One has only to look to so-called nationalist revolutions playing out (again) in KZ, PK, SL, MY, the Sahel, and possibly IN this year either to purge or domesticate G7 sabateurs.
This year, of permanent membership in these blocs, RU is best equipped, literally, to battle NATO attavists. In the meantime, regional “leaders” continue to negotiate the prerequisites and scope of guarantees offered by association. Next year and the years after, different “situational leaders” will emerge from this alliance.

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 22 2022 15:22 utc | 221

@ paul greenwood @ sushi and @Melaleuca… thanks for your posts…

Posted by: james | Aug 22 2022 15:26 utc | 222

But then we are left with the question – “Why would a supposed sophisticated EU elite, one acting primarily in its own self-interest (Lasch), commit seppuku by creating domestic social disorder, de-industrialization, and the transfer of economic primacy to the USA?”
Posted by: Sushi | Aug 22 2022 14:33 utc | 215
The proles get restive when they have money and a little comfort. We spooked them good in the 60s, since 1980 or so nothing for nobody except themselves and their minions. That’s why. It is how they retain control, and that is how they feed in the public trough.
It has been vanilla US politics to crash the economy to retain political control for at least 150 years. What Volker did in the 80s is a good example.
Both parties are private corporations, fund-raising operations, and control of the government is always funnelled through them. The last thing they want to do is lost access to the federal money river. THAT is what matters.
This is also why they like lots of immigrants.
And you will notice they don’t like the white working class here any more, since they have better historical memory of how things were in the past here.
Conservative Treehouse, which I do not normally read, had an excellent piece on this (from their POV) today.
My 2 cents.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 22 2022 15:29 utc | 223

Gerrard White @220
It’s the system that is corrupt, I’m not accusing ordinary people. I think the entire West is beyond reform, sadly, and I think the evil empire that is the West will either collapse on its own or be defeated by an outside force.

Posted by: aquileia | Aug 22 2022 15:32 utc | 224

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Aug 22 2022 11:05 utc | 168
I have just read an interesting article in TASS. The Head of the RF Security Council Patrushev has made a clear statement that the USA is likely to default on its debt in the way it has defaulted on its debt with Russia.

I think that is unlikely.
First of all, the USD is still backed by gold, black gold to be more precise. Secondly, if the West goes broke all at once, it means all-out war (such a situation would be comparable to that in which Nazi Germany found itself on the eve of WWII), including the very likely and ultimate consequence of mutual nuclear annihilation.
I am sure Moscow and Beijing are aware of this and will cook Pepe Tzu low & slow.
(Please do not get too wild at my ignorance. I am just a simple man.)

Posted by: Nobody | Aug 22 2022 16:55 utc | 225

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 22 2022 15:15 utc | 225
I am tempted to agree with you. But most of the colonial powers delivered tangible and intangible benefits to their colonies. They constructed extraction networks (mines, railways, harbours), defended the perimeter, maintained internal peace, imposed a system of laws and property rights, delivered education so the indigenes would respect the role of the Mother Country (such a quaint phrase for the imposition of national anthems, state holidays, imperial celebrations, social order, an approved religion, a monetary system, a right of legal possession, and a supplicant workforce both pliant and cheap).
The US affiliation with the EU (and affiliation seems to be the correct word for what will likely be a “hump and dump” relationship) seems destined to ultimately provoke a EU response similar to that created by the Madness of King George III. The EU “Whig and loyalist elite” will decamp to sunny confines of Florida where they will rub shoulders with Z at the local watering hole.
What they will leave behind is a shattered and bankrupt “Disneyland.”

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 22 2022 18:59 utc | 226

Re: Iguana | Aug 22 2022 14:27 utc | 212
Many thanks! / Vielen dank! The Tor browser combined with the new identity allowed me to access the blocked strategic culture site. I will pass this information on to friends.

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 22 2022 19:43 utc | 227

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 22 2022 15:07 utc | 223:

Guilt for the murder of Darya Dugan falls not only on Ukraine. It also falls on America, Ukraine’s puppetmaster.

Yes, agreed, but what else is new? Guilt of shelling of the nuke plant falls on America; suffering from the coming winter in Europe falls on America; the devastations of North Korea/Vietnam/Yugoslavia/Iraq/Syria/Libya/Afghan/ blah,blah,blah fall on America. Oh boy! if one looks, one can go on a looooong looooong list of guilts attributable to America, the most efficient and proficient disciple of Devil since humanity arose. But what would stop it from happening again and again???? Their own land is free from venues of attribution. Even their oversea bases, some 800+ of them scattering all over this globe, are “supposedly” off limit from punishments, because otherwise there is risk of a nuke war??? They got away for whatever guilts they pile up. Because so, they are getting more and more blatant, more and more cruel, more and more destructive. They got nothing to lose! They have everything to gain, because nations after nations yielded to their will and cowered. Why would they not do what they are doing and gaining?
What puzzles me is why America alone is not afraid of nuke war while everybody else who also owns nukes draw themselves the redline. To stop the bully, you have to teach the bully that bully is bad!!! Otherwise the bully lives on and get more blatant, which has been the trend. UK learned that lesson in the 50’s and had since turn from a bully to an ass-kisser. Do some of the things they did to people of other nations, and they would get the message that things may not be free, that they may not be exceptional after all. Let them be the ones to wonder whether to push that nuke button, or to live within human protocols. Let their think tanks to start thinking compromises instead of tricks to extract more from others.
Russia should freeze Europe this winter. China should deprive Australia/USA/UK/EU/Japan/ of consumer goods this winter (using Pelosi violation of the Three Communiques and the vassals sycophancy, dollar hegemony, the pandemic, etc. etc. as excuses), even if that means no growth economically this year, or may be even negative growth for a few years to come. Big power nations should bear the burden of actions, because their actions (and theirs alone) would truly hurt! Hurting may not yield the hoped-for results right away but is worth a trial now. If it doesn’t work, there will always be other means to try and apply, until the Devil’s disciples sweat enough to threaten the use of nuke. Russia/China may even want to borrow from America’s playbook of administering ‘hurt’ to change America’s behavior.
When Russia/China do that, don’t forget to remind them that while America and company don’t yet have supersonic weaponries to deliver their nukes fast as neededfor the first strike, the other two superpowers do. America and company are informed enough to know this much fact, already!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 22 2022 19:45 utc | 228

@Biswapriya Purkayast #204:
Agree with most of what you said. Paying back perpetrators in their own kind is worth a trial.
By the way, it’s not like MI6/CIA/MOSSAD haven’t assassinate or kidnap or blowup embassies etc. etc. before and boasted so openly.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 22 2022 19:52 utc | 229

Can anyone please suggest how I can access the Strategic Culture Foundation website? I live in the US, and have tried using a variety of browsers, including Yandex, with no success, all attempts are blocked.
I would like to know who is doing the blocking. Here in the “land of the free” it seems that we are increasingly free to read what the censors say is “safe” to read.
Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 22 2022 13:33 utc | 201
I use a VPN and a US based server. SC, RT, Sputnik all work.
Interestingly, Telegram detects that I am in Europe and blocks RT.
I use Safari browser.
Possibly your ISP blocks it. Btw SC comes up slowly. Maybe be more patient.

Posted by: RB | Aug 22 2022 20:03 utc | 230

LOL!
A language ‘revival’? Quebec moves to protect French amid Canada’s shift towards English, jack o’ all trades, master of none dilemma

The federal minister of official languages, Ginette Petitpas Taylor, described the data as “worrisome”. French is more under threat in Canada, including in Quebec, than ever, according to the minister.

misplaced precision

A ‘force of assimilation’
“The phenomenon that underlies the (higher) increase in English and the weak increase in French is … a force of English assimilation that is out of proportion to (the force of) French assimilation in Canada as a whole,” explained researcher and statistician Charles Castonguay on Radio-Canada on Thursday. post 7 Years War tory “colonization”

‘Struggling to gallicise’ the UWC-way
Faced with birth rates that are insufficient to ensure the replenishment of their ranks, Francophone and Anglophone communities in Canada rely on immigration instead. … Canada’s government is promoting an immigration strategy that aims to increase Francophone immigration to provinces outside Quebec to 4.4 percent by 2023, support the integration of French-speaking newcomers and build the capacity of Francophone communities. But [D]espite this plan, the appeal of English remains strong, and [“]allophones[“] are still shifting to English, particularly because of the greater currency [gah bless Elizabeth II, Regina LOL!] of English in the labour market. …

but muh fancanglo colonial heritage

The law, which comes into force on September 1, states that all businesses with 25 to 49 employees will be subject to the Charter of the French Language, a 1977 law that made French the official language of Quebec. The law will also apply to businesses under federal jurisdiction, such as banks. It is seen as a new act of “withdrawal” by Anglophones, and as DISCRIMINATORY against Anglophones and [“]allophones[“]….

dead intellectualism: How many ways can you spell Zaporizh* ?

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 22 2022 20:13 utc | 231

Dima had a sobering end to his summary today going so far as to use the n word.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 22 2022 20:29 utc | 232

@ Oriental Voice
Yes, exactly. They have nothing to lose. Not only them but look at EU. The idiot borrell announced EU wants to create permanent training bases and supplying of weapons for Ukr.
It’s clear EU feels little pressure. If some protest in small numbers, they can be beaten or have accounts blocked with no problems. Trudy and Macaron have tested many methods and all worked.
So if Russia, China don’t want nato sponsored terrorism inside their borders, they have to start sanctions or find other moves to make. Like Pelosi said laughing when a reporter asked about China’s sanctions for her: “Well… Who cares???”. The same for EU. Who cares what Donbass or Russia want, borell says war

Posted by: rk | Aug 22 2022 20:55 utc | 233

Do you remember when Russian media started showing simulations of nuclear weapons striking Great Britain? Seems like all the tough talk from the Brits ceased after that.

Posted by: Kisporoi | Aug 22 2022 21:33 utc | 234

What’s the point of saying it is not their fault if they are the ones who pay the price
Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 22 2022 13:08 utc | 194
If you change “fault” to responsibility then I agree with your argument.
If we make ourselves only into victims then nothing can be done except to be saved. And we all know how that usually turns out.
However it is the rare human that can see beyond creature comfort and in the west the process of de-education has been ongoing for at least 100 years. So its not fair to say it’s the fault of the working class, because they don’t even know there is such a thing as “class” anymore or what to do about it. I agree with you that it is the people who need to act and when that need becomes powerful, intelligent leaders from the people will come forward to help organise. Of course this is already happening here and there in the West.
The material conditions will force the action as Marx describes however there are always greater forces at work than just the material, the need of the people is also on a spiritual level and that need is currently starving in the west.
I’ll repeat that I found the lectures given by General Petrov to be very instructive on these matters, having watched a lot of his videos over the last few days I can see clearly that Putin listened to him. He spoke of the need for open education of the people so that people are equipped to participate in the politics of the country, and that elected leaders must be exceptional disciplined human beings in service to the people.
Of course there have been and are westerners with such heart, Intelligence and political vision but they will not be allowed to run a political party as they can in Russia.
I found this interesting etymology of the term “politics” in a paper on Political Science:
“The term `politics‟, is derived from the Greek word `Polis‟, which means the city state According to Greek Philosophers, Politics was a subject which dealt with all the activities and affairs of the city state. Their City States were known as `Polis‟. City state was an all inclusive term, as the ancient Greeks made no distinction between the state and the Government on one hand, and State and Society on the other. They never differentiated between personal life and social life. Hence according to them Politics was a total study of man, society, state, morality and so on.

Posted by: K | Aug 22 2022 21:44 utc | 235

@165, Paul Greenwood, Re: US eager to drop nuclear bombs on Russia, that’s why I said US had been eager since “at least” 1962. I knew Truman/US designated Russia/USSR an effectively permanent US enemy requiring diversion of US taxpayer dollars in perpetuity, loading countries with US troops, military bases, etc. mainly to protect against their WWII ally, Stalin, who had offered to help Truman finish off the Japanese. I read that Truman didn’t want to accept Stalin’s help for fear of being beholden to him, so he opted instead for two atom bombs. Thanks for your additional links on this topic. US has made a fortune keeping the nuclear scare alive since WWII era.

Posted by: susan mullen | Aug 23 2022 1:01 utc | 236

susan mullen | Aug 23 2022 1:01 utc | 240
Did you know U$A actually *invaded* Russia?
One of those obscure “forgotten” footnotes of history.
I’ll leave it to you (or others) to fire up their search engine of choice for
§| when why how (and who) thought this a viable strategy.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 23 2022 4:56 utc | 237

: K | Aug 22 2022 21:44 utc | 239
Thanks for this comment – the community and communal basis as the foundation of all aspects of social existence can not be ignored
What was evident to the Greeks is evident to all peasant and pre peasant (pre agriculture) ways of life

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 23 2022 5:22 utc | 238

This is a classic process of colonisation – the outsider power presents as all powerful in arms, allies this force with a number of ideologies and practices which appeal to the significant also minded and dominant local élites, so forms a deep alliance which can collapse the country for plunder…
Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 22 2022 15:15 utc | 224
Smart post. But I disagree with your characterization of the US. Because it too has been colonized and plundered as you so well describe above. IMO.
If that is correct, then who or what do we substitute for ‘US’ in your statements?
We wonders, aye, we wonders, Precious!

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 23 2022 7:26 utc | 239

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 23 2022 7:26 utc | 243
« . But I disagree with your characterization of the US. Because it too has been colonized and plundered as you so well describe above. »
Your phrase is not clear to me – do you talk of the colonisation wrought by the Mayflowers, or a subsequent ? The fate of the original settlers ? I’d rather say they were wiped out
Or do you mean to say that the US ruling class has consistently over the centuries ‘colonised’ and plundered those they brought over there from the rest of the world for this very purpose, in which case I’d say you were stretching the use of the word
In any case all (except for Russia ?) countries can say that once upon a time they too were colonised – but in the case of say European countries this was by a large an internal to Europe process of shifteing balances of power
The current takeover is only slightly different to the classic colonisations of the Europeans and the US in the 18th 19th century and on
The one crucial charactaristic is present – overwhelming power, both military and financial, which prolongs the shadow of an economic force largely otherwise in the case of the US dissipated

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 23 2022 8:27 utc | 240