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August 11, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-127

Only for news & views related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on August 11, 2022 at 12:54 UTC | Permalink

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Scholz demanded that Russia urgently take the Siemens turbines for Nord Stream from Germany.

"Stop saying with illusory arguments that you don't want her, take her, here she is!"

Russia's position remains unchanged, under the conditions of sanctions, the supply of Siemens equipment does not comply with the terms of the contract. In fact, the Germans are mockingly offered to deal with the consequences of their own sanctions on their own and Gazprom is not going to help Germany circumvent its own sanctions against Russia.

All this is happening against the background of the cries of the captains of big business in Germany, who demand from the multi-colored Scholz coalition to resolve the issue of gas supplies for the winter, since Germany will certainly survive the gas crisis in winter, but in the case of German industry, not only everyone will survive. Therefore, through its lobbyists in the Bundestag and through public appeals in the press, large German capital demands that Scholz solve the problem. Hence Scholz's humiliating demands to take the German turbine away, bypassing German sanctions. Another question is that the Russian Federation understands all the difficulties of Scholz and is in no hurry to meet him, observing how the pressure inside Germany on Scholz and the company is increasing.

Posted by: gas | Aug 11 2022 13:12 utc | 1

Another NATO attack on Zaporozhye NPP in South-East Ukraine.

That is, an American ordered nuclear attack on Russia and therefore IMO time to take off the gloves and hit a US base in Europe.

You can't fuck around with these American/UK psychopaths. They mean business and so should you.

Quit with the nonsense that this will invoke a NATO response, NATO have responded.

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 11 2022 14:00 utc | 2

Posted by: gas | Aug 11 2022 13:12 utc | 1


All what you say leads to the conclusion, that in addition to de-militarizing the west, the Eurasian bloc is also de-industrializing the economic heartlands of the west. Losing those industries will make it much harder to militarize Germany later on. Even if US has some capacity to manufacture weapons, EU will be de-facto a bankrupt beggar. The Eurozone is completely dysfunctional as historical surpluses born from industrial and agricultural supremacy of Germany, Netherlands and Austria disappear.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 11 2022 14:01 utc | 3

Maybe better belongs on the Ukraine thread.
—————-

And most importantly, where is the American citizens on this?

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Aug 11 2022 13:39 utc | 3
—————

Good question. The Russian smo is slowly forcing more information to the American public. Secret biolabs, massive corruption centered on Hunter Biden etc. And spending billions to keep this covered up.

Posted by: financial matters | Aug 11 2022 13:59 utc | 6

Posted by: financial matters | Aug 11 2022 14:04 utc | 4

George Szamuely has an excellent article on the causes of the current crisis:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-learns-nothing-forgets-nothing/5789564

Posted by: bevin | Aug 11 2022 14:05 utc | 5

The npp attack is making fun of the UN Security Council meeting requested by Russia. It's today, isn't it?

Posted by: rk | Aug 11 2022 14:09 utc | 6

"Catastrophic collapse": Ministry of Finance states the collapse of budget revenues
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5503866
https://www.moscowtimes.ru/2022/08/10/katastroficheskii-obval-minfin-konstatiroval-kollaps-dohodov-byudzheta-a23121

The gas war with Europe, the falling economy and the out-of-control ruble exchange rate have dealt a heavy blow to the Russian budget.

In July, the federal treasury recorded a double-digit drop in revenues from all key taxes, while its overall revenues fell by 26% year-on-year, according to data released by the Finance Ministry on Wednesday.

The budget suffered a "catastrophic revenue collapse," MMI analysts said. Having collected 1.761 trillion rubles in taxes, the government increased spending by 17% to 2.653 trillion rubles. As a result, at the end of the month the treasury had a deficit of Br892 billion, equal to 33% of the monthly budget. In other words, every third ruble spent by the government was left without tax revenue.

Non-oil and gas revenues are under pressure because of restrictions related to the sanctions, points out Stanislav Murashov, an analyst with Raiffeisenbank: the country is experiencing a decline in entire industries - from the automobile industry to metallurgy; imports have recovered by only a fifth, and the economic decline is accelerating - 2.8% in April, 4.3% in May, 4.9% in June, according to the MED.

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 14:09 utc | 7

Ukrainian troops shelled the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant from heavy weapons for a second time.


https://ria.ru/20220811/zaes-1808927070.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 11 2022 14:12 utc | 8

"out-of-control ruble exchange rate "
gerimov | Aug 11 2022 14:09 utc | 7

must be bad to drink that much

Posted by: rk | Aug 11 2022 14:13 utc | 9

Germans and their politicians are now beginning to realise just how lucky they are to receive cheap Russian gas, but pressure from Washington wants to put an end to it, will the people prevail over their politicians, or will the politicians bow to Whitehouse pressure.


https://ria.ru/20220811/potok-1808817978.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 11 2022 14:17 utc | 10

@ 10

That boat has sailed!

Who gives a fark about what German/Europeans decide to do with their Overlords?

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 11 2022 14:20 utc | 11

The brave Germans won't do anything.
There is no more national pride in Germany!

Posted by: mm77 | Aug 11 2022 14:29 utc | 12

@gerimov #7
What a garbage summary of the actual data.

First of all, The Russian budget has been in deficit in the second half every year since at least 2018; 2020 was the only exception.

Secondly, the overall budget is not in deficit. It is simply that

[translated from Kommersant article via Google Translate] The federal budget was closed in July with a very impressive one-month deficit of 892 billion rubles, which "ate" most of the surplus accumulated in the first half of the year, follows from the Finance Ministry's data published yesterday. Revenues based on the results of seven months still exceed expenses, but this difference has decreased over the month from 1.4 trillion to 482 billion rubles, that is, by two-thirds.

However, the movement towards budget deficits is not big news in itself - July surprised only by the increased speed of this process. The head of the department, Anton Siluanov, said earlier that by the end of the year, the deficit could reach up to 2% of GDP. The draft “Guidelines for the Budget, Tax and Customs Tariff Policy for 2023-2025” referred to this year’s deficit of 1.2% of GDP. It is planned to close it primarily due to the savings of the NWF.

Or in other words: usual Moscow Times bullshit.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 11 2022 14:30 utc | 13

WTFUD (11).

I think its important, it says to me if you read the article, that the German people could be ready to say to their politicians that enough is enough, Washington can put pressure on Scholz but in the end he and his party need to answer to the German public, it is they who elect them and remove them from office.

Germany is the largest economy in the EU, and has the most to lose on the economic front by the looks of things, the people forcing their politicians to make a stand on cheap Russian fuel is an act of defiance against Washington, that they want Russian fuel and that American interests do not come before that.

The defiance could spread to other EU nations, I certainly hope so.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 11 2022 14:32 utc | 14

mm77 (12).

I don't think it will be about pride, I think it will come down to necessity and cost.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 11 2022 14:34 utc | 15

@rk #9
Out of control by whom? lol

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 11 2022 14:36 utc | 16

And most importantly, where is the American citizens on this?

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Aug 11 2022 13:39 utc | 3

This American citizen would like to see his country spanked by Russia good and hard.

I'm fed up with just about everybody and everything here.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Aug 11 2022 14:39 utc | 17

"The Kiev regime deliberately aims at the nuclear waste storage facility at the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant to provoke the explosion of a dirty bomb" - the authorities of the region

Posted by: rk | Aug 11 2022 14:56 utc | 18

[ukraine thread because sanctions were applied in response to SMO]

Full Gazprom statement (twitter)
>This is the long statement from Gazprom. I find the arguments way more succinct than a German politician grandstanding in front of some machinery.
https://twitter.com/deeperdriller/status/1555206986467360768

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 11 2022 14:56 utc | 19

Liz Truss, who is running for Prime Minister, has said that London has imposed the toughest sanctions in the world against Russia.

The results of those sanctions:

- Inflation in the UK has passed 9.4%
- British electricity debt hits record £1.3bn
- Electricity prices have risen by 74%
- Millions of British families at risk of rolling blackouts this winter
- Real incomes of Britons fall by a record 2.8%
- Britain is turning into a 3rd world country.
- The UK is likely to enter a recession in the fourth quarter of 2022, with GDP falling by 2.1 percent.
- Inflation will peak above 13%

Elect Liz!

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 14:56 utc | 20

@c1ue #13
Russian government deficit is projected to be up to 7% this year, accounting for the latest data. Anton Siluanov said 2% in June, not 1.2% of GDP. So overall the article sums up the overall condition of the Russian economy pretty well.

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 14:58 utc | 21

And most importantly, where is the American citizens on this?

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Aug 11 2022 13:39 utc | 3

This American is in total agreement with Putin and would not be disappointed to see Washington D.C. nuked during the State of the Union address in February. And I would not be opposed to hearing of Europeans freezing this winter if their leaders wish to follow the lead of the retard we have in the Offal Office. "If" enough Americans can find the testicular fortitude to take our government back, I would appreciate Pres. Putin supplying weapons to fighters that want to re-establish the American Republic. I'm sure the FBI will be around to talk to me later. I'll give you the deets if that happens.

Posted by: ChuckInBama | Aug 11 2022 14:59 utc | 22

@Posted by: c1ue | Aug 11 2022 14:30 utc | 13

You beat me to it! The Moscow Times is an extremely West-liberal leaning publication, so the equivalent of a Guardian story about Russia. As you point out, a ridiculous twisting of the actual reality to come up with a negative headline and story.

Posted by: Roger | Aug 11 2022 15:07 utc | 23

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 11 2022 14:30 utc | 13

ahh yessss ye olde PIIGS "primary deficit" and "total deficit" credit shell game.

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 11 2022 15:08 utc | 24

#Republik Schottland
The pride of the Germans is defined incorrectly, the Germans will never take to the streets, the media and politicians are already preparing: that every demonstrator is a lateral thinker = right-wing extremist!
See how brutal police cracked down on dockers. Response on the other side = NONE!

Posted by: mm77 | Aug 11 2022 15:12 utc | 25

@Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 14:58 utc | 21

Russian government deficit is projected to be up to 7% this year, accounting for the latest data. Anton Siluanov said 2% in June, not 1.2% of GDP. So overall the article sums up the overall condition of the Russian economy pretty well.

That is NOT what Siluanov said, via google translate:

"The head of the department, Anton Siluanov, said earlier that by the end of the year, the deficit could reach up to 2% of GDP. The draft “Guidelines for the Budget, Tax and Customs Tariff Policy for 2023-2025” referred to this year’s deficit of 1.2% of GDP. It is planned to close it primarily due to the savings of the NWF."

Really silly to misrepresent the actual words of the official when you provide the link and we can all use google translate. Absolutely nowhere in that article is 7% mentioned.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5503866

Posted by: Roger | Aug 11 2022 15:15 utc | 26

Interesting, the Russian budget take a hit over sanctions, war costs, and inflation and OPEC moves to cut production...
OPEC Sees Global Oil Market Tipping Into Surplus This Quarter
Its one of those little things that drives the Anglo American NATO fools crazy. Maybe other nations want to be free of their death grip as well.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 11 2022 15:15 utc | 27

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 14:56 utc | 20

Sputnik out of the gate this a.m. reveals the key to the united kingdoms is ... a Vogue cover story

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 11 2022 15:15 utc | 28

@ bevin | Aug 11 2022 14:05 utc | 5

thanks... i agree.. i sent a copy to melanie joly and my local federal mp.... i quoted from the article and expressed my disagreement over natos role in all of this..

Posted by: james | Aug 11 2022 15:18 utc | 29

Russia’s budget deficit in 2022 could reach up to 2% of GDP

The state is not even borrowing money to fund the deficit, it is using some of its "rainy day fund" to cover the shortfall.

"ST. PETERSBURG, June 16. /TASS/. The Ministry of Finance estimates the federal budget deficit at the end of the current year at 2% of GDP, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said on Thursday.

"We estimate the deficit at 2%," Siluanov told reporters on the sidelines of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF).

According to the minister, the current federal budget surplus is rather conditional, it currently reaches 840 bln rubles ($14.44 bln). "In general, we have a budget surplus, a conditional surplus, because all spending will go towards Q4, when we have to use all resources," the Siluanov said.

Siluanov added that about 3-4 trillion rubles ($51.59-68.79 bln) from the National Wealth Fund of Russia will be allocated to finance the budget deficit."

Russia has very low levels of state and external debts, it has been running a very conservative fiscal position for years to protect itself against Western economic actions, including the maintenance of the National Wealth Fund as a rainy day fund.

https://tass.com/economy/1466353

Posted by: Roger | Aug 11 2022 15:21 utc | 30

@ChuckinBama (Post #22)
Re American sentiment:
1) The US populace is deeply divided between the rational and the irrational, a demarcation that transcends party lines.
2) A second, more easily overcome division is between the informed and uninformed. The latter group including both those who don’t care about anything beyond their personal lives and those who care but have been thoroughly propagandized over decades of mind control via the educational system and mass media. Although this division also transcends the political spectrum, an increasingly greater percentage of conservatives are informed.
3) The third division is generational. Again, there exist significant segments of both of the two divisions mentioned above on both sides of the generational divide.
4) Race, qua race, is a less significant division, as is economic strata. However, those are precisely the divisions that the elites have attempted to manipulate.

My opinion only, based only on my own observations and with no statistically significant support.

Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 11 2022 15:23 utc | 31

....“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?".......

Posted by: exile | Aug 11 2022 15:25 utc | 32

@1 Gas
It was the same thing under the previous Red/Green coalition headed by Schröder. They managed to push germany into a recession, with massive layoffs. Eventually the industrial giants and oligarchs caused the downfall of the government. It will happen again. Especially Greens, in addition to being the war party, are hostile to german industry and cannot but make bad decisions. These people should never be allowed anywhere near decision-making office

Posted by: Ntrip | Aug 11 2022 15:27 utc | 33

Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 11 2022 15:23 utc | 31

Pretty good

Posted by: Obj | Aug 11 2022 15:31 utc | 34

Interesting read from a minority Russian opposition voice.

He has some valid point about China and the DPRK, though his view is slightly simplistic.

https://www.memri.org/reports/russian-military-expert-felgengauer-punctures-hope-tension-between-china-and-taiwan-could

Posted by: JHW | Aug 11 2022 15:33 utc | 35

@ 14 Republicofscotland

I'm not looking for a fight. I read 'every' comment before posting (if there's too many then I read at least the first 100 then tend just to cherry pick commenters I like or those who add an attachment. Correct me if I'm wrong didn't 'James' a couple of days ago reprimand you nicely for not reading comments before you post in case of duplication?

Screw Germany and every other European patsy. They've either made their bed or are indifferent; made my life considerably less enjoyable for 2 decades with their refusal to acknowledge American-NATO genocide against the most vulnerable easy targets.

I'll suffer as much as everyone else in the UK but it's a price worth paying to awaken them from their deep slumber.

I'd consider it an affront if Putin/Russia jumped back into bed with the western elite criminals after the sacrifice, betrayal and mutilation of Russian, Slavic, Muslim, African, South American, Asian and Euro-Asian nations.

STARVE THE BEAST and when it's on its last legs, stick the knife in and twist it.

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 11 2022 15:33 utc | 36

@Roger #30
The same NWF, half of whose assets in range of $350 billion were frozen in western jusrisdictions? Half of the $350 billion available to Russian government were already used in order to sustain normal government policies. Once this is dried up, the only way to sustain the deficit is through seigniorage, which is a short-to-medium term hand by itself.

The 7% deficit was not explicitly mentioned, but anyone with inferring capability can see this is where the deficit in its current state is headed. Autumn is when the proverbial lion will rear it's ugly head. Industry is also tethering under the strain of failure of import substitution attempts.

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 15:34 utc | 37

gerimov | Aug 11 2022 15:34 utc | 37

get lost troll

Posted by: rk | Aug 11 2022 15:35 utc | 38

I'd rather see some argumentation instead.

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 15:38 utc | 39

Posted by: JHW | Aug 11 2022 15:33 utc | 35

MEMRI is a zionist propaganda website. I don't expect to find anything worth reading there.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 11 2022 15:38 utc | 40

Any update on the Crimea airport strike - what weapons were used?

Posted by: Yashuo | Aug 11 2022 15:40 utc | 41

From Thursday, August 11, EU countries cannot import coal from Russia. Embargo...oh, oh!

At the same time, the German government - faced with an energy shortage - decided to temporarily reconnect the old coal-fired power plants to the grid. Other countries, such as Austria and Italy, also want to use more coal again. In Germany, the amount of electricity generated from coal increased by 20% in the first five months of this year.

Europeans are now looking for alternative coal suppliers such as the US, Australia and Indonesia. Germany currently obtains more raw material from South Africa and Colombia, or trying to...

For some countries, especially for Poland dependent on coal-based energy production, the embargo on Russian coal may be problematic.

As early as mid-April, Warsaw introduced its own ban on the import of Russian coal, which led to bottlenecks and a significant increase in prices. Today, a ton of coal costs four times as much as a year ago.

Funny how Russo-hate works!

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 15:45 utc | 42

The prevailing winds in Russia from July to October seem to be towards the South (EU). Who is Zelensky trying to paint with a tint of Yellow/Green?

https://weatherspark.com/y/100524/Average-Weather-in-Moscow-Russia-Year-Round

Posted by: Goran | Aug 11 2022 15:45 utc | 43

Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 11 2022 15:23 utc | 31

Oops...the dog bumped my computer...

Pretty good breakdown of some of the divides, although, as a typical class reductionist, I think you underestimate the role of economics. Americans are also divided between the debtors and creditors which mostly leads to the other divides of which you speak (rational/irrational and informed/uninformed). The generational divide is being created via technological machinations of the creditors who are also using education/ideology to exacerbate racial divides while ostensibly working to ameliorate them via every way other than financial and structural changes(see DeAngelo, Kendi, et al.).

The American public is desperate for anything or anyone 'real' to make a case for them...hence the support for both Sanders and Trump in previous election cycles. Also, the reason for such vitriol and active measures against those two candidates (i.e., the Clinton moves against Sanders and the ongoing moves against Trump). There is a hunger for unity but nothing to grasp onto to unify us other than said hunger.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 11 2022 15:47 utc | 44

Any update on the Crimea airport strike - what weapons were used?

Posted by: Yashuo | Aug 11 2022 15:40 utc | 41
---
Buy a ticket, and visit Crimea to find out. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g313972-Crimea-Vacations.html

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 15:47 utc | 45

RF forces took the Belokamensk refractory plant in Soledar, creating a nice bridgehead to attack the Nazis from.

Posted by: WTFUD | Aug 11 2022 15:52 utc | 46

WTFUD (36).

Reprimanded interesting choice of words I might add, I wonder if James agrees with that, as he admitted posting the odd comment not knowing that there had been a similar one posted on a previous or current page.

Your position on Germany is of course your choice, I'm sure Putin would rather keep on dealing with Berlin than cut it off completely, if only for the money and nothing else.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 11 2022 16:01 utc | 47

Please, don't feed the trolls here. They are usually early to post. Reading comments only from known contributors becomes necessary lately.

Posted by: Abe | Aug 11 2022 16:01 utc | 48

Ukrainian shelling of Russian-held dam prompts fears of flooding

A CNN report sort of wondering why Russian are not crossing in the Ukraine. "Its just a one off". I have to wonder if this was ever published in the US, spin or no spin.
Goodbye Ukraine! Ukrainian civilians flocking to Russian-held territories Kherson Region

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 11 2022 16:03 utc | 49

The Ukraine is the lesser part of Russias concerns at present.
Economic war is greater issue by far.
Perhaps explains why US/Ukraine seeking attention by bombing NPP.
Russia-Turkey-China each with potential. But.
China-Russia and Turkey-Russia are long time adversaries.
I think the guideline is that each country does what is in its own interest - does not make for strong and lasting alliances.
Chinas "support" for Russia in this difficult time limited to purchase of cheap comodities. Turkey and China still trying to gain membership into the club.
Russia should form strong alliance with Siberia and develop own economy and capabilities - invest in self. Russia has done pretty badly with economic science - the bright side is there remains great upside potential.
China is a freak show, will spiral into North Korean style (totalitarian) collapse once ties with west are severed.
West also spiralling into Communist/Military/Totalitarian vortex into hell. Seems that sometimes these thing take a while to work themselves out and generally require strong leader.

Posted by: jared | Aug 11 2022 16:11 utc | 50

reprimand - is a strong word... i would like it better if everyone could get along... we all have strong feelings and views on this war.... we are all here to learn - hopefully!

Posted by: james | Aug 11 2022 16:13 utc | 51

gerimov | Aug 11 2022 14:09 utc | 7, c1ue | Aug 11 2022 14:30 utc | 13

c1ue and others have debunked gerimov’s claims, notably with regard to the Kommersant article

The Moscow Times article is originally an afp article, a naive reproduction of Jeffrey Sonnenfeld’s Yale CELI naive report, which contains such gems as claiming it is based on facts –

‘such as high-frequency consumer data, cross-channel checks, releases from Russia’s international trade partners and data mining of complex shipping data’

This is altogether too breathless – Yale conducted comprehensive cross chanel checks in Russian factories? What is the high-frequency consumer data thay refer to so blithely, they have access to MIR records ?

Sonnenfeld is a Ynak deep state lackey

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 11 2022 16:15 utc | 52

The website "Hacker News" is the main discussion forum for the Western labor aristocracy of the present day (well paid IT nerds). It hosts a variety of topic and generally reflects the main trends and opinions from Silicon Valley.

Unusually, today a story is linked to about Ukraine, namely, the bombing of the Saky airfield.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32424559

The most highly voted comment is:

"The reason this is significant, besides being an enormous loss of difficult to replace aircraft, is that it was so far from the front lines. Russia has been fumbling in the last month to adjust to western HIMAR weapons that have been precisely targeting ammo depots, hqs, and other high value targets far behind the front lines. Russian logistics is largely train based. They ship everything by train and unpack it to a nearby warehouse, then rely on trucks for the last mile. The HIMARs have been destroying the warehouses, meaning Russia is now needing to use trucks for much much more than the last mile because they can't unpack everything near the front. This new strike is even longer range than the weapon specs Ukraine was believed to have. And it was 2 very precise explosions. How this was achieved is not clear, but if Ukraine now has frequent precise missile capabilities for 200-300km strikes, that means Russia may need to scramble their logistics all over again.

Right now the most important location in the war is Kherson, occupied by Russia. It's the only truly valuable asset that Russia has seized, and recent Ukranian advances have made Russia pull 20-30k troops off of other front lines to reinforce this area. It's a very difficult position for Russia. There's just a couple bridges leading into Kherson from the south (Russia / Crimea side) and Ukraine has been blowing them up. Logistics of supplying those 30k troops is going to be really tough. And now Crimea, the main logistics hub for those troops, is appearing very vulnerable.

Ukraine's goal here is to make the defense of Kherson extremely resource intensive, meaning Russia has to either lose the territory or weaken up on other fronts."

Their general opinion - and remember, these people consider themselves incredibly smart and a cut above the rest - is similar to another highly voted comment:

"Fortunately, the facts on the ground indicate otherwise. Russia's losses in materiel and men are unsustainable and no match for surviving Ukraine's frequent resupply of western military donations. How much more blood and treasure he wastes is really up to Putin, but there's no way he can sustain the losses as his paper tiger turns to ashes."

This is just in case anyone is wondering whether Western propaganda is still effective.

It is more effective than ever and the Western public is convinced the Russians will be routed soon.

Posted by: moaobserver | Aug 11 2022 16:15 utc | 53

Budgets and deficits. . .

Those of you posting blather about Russia's budget versus revenue results need to come back to the real world in the 2st century.

Start by googling "Modern Monetary Theory". Then move on to look at Japanese budgets for the last 20+ years or the US budget since Dubya the Younger (and while you're at it, also look up Bob Dole and the phrase "Deficits don't matter"). Or for that matter the EU budget since the 2007-2008.

Note how every primary economy acts according to MMT even if some swear they don't. And that's part is just political. So they don't have to give money to average folk since in the West only the rich, obviously, deserve govt money. But of course there's always money for wars. Look up the US off budget allocations for the last 20 yrs of war that the US indulged in.

So the idea that the Russian budget or economy is in any trouble has about as much validity as the idea of the Russian Armed Forces immediate defeat at the hands of the Ukrianian Army Of Nazi Grandmas.

I've heard of grasping at straws, but that's just silly.

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Aug 11 2022 16:27 utc | 54

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 15:38 utc | 39

I just checked the site you linked and it says its an independent news outlet which does not exactly state where they are actually housed:
"The Moscow Times is Russia’s leading, independent English-language media outlet. Our team of Russian and English journalists provide readers across the world with breaking news, engaging stories and balanced reporting about the largest country on Earth."
Well, their facebook account has 700k followers, yet, if you read their Ukraine live-blog, you get a watered-down low-key Western propaganda version of things that happened.

I`d be hesitant to use them as valid sources, but truth be told, I haven`t had the time to read much of what they present ...

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Aug 11 2022 16:37 utc | 55

There’s a World Ukraine Conference underway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boyfIsaZhzE
Ukrainian Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov, UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace and Danish Defense Minister Morten Bodskov hold a joint news conference.
Can’t catching all. Heard something about “we need money”.
When has Ukraine said anything but “money, give now”.
€1.8billion now.. more pledged.
More UK troop training.
Iceland will demine
Denmark …. Meeting is in Copenhagen. Another conference in September.
UK Defence Minister gloating over the explosions in Crimea.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 11 2022 16:39 utc | 56

@Objective Observer (Post #44)
“There is a hunger for unity but nothing to grasp onto to unify us other than said hunger.”

Yes, agreed. In support of that, I’ve posted a thoughtful quote below from an essay by Asia Teacher that The Saker posted today:

“Ordinarily, countries take a millennium to evolve, eventually producing their own unique norms and values which in turn produce a general consensus of beliefs. Conversely, the United States arose as a designer created society against colonial rule by European monarchs and as a unifying force chose unrestrained materialism and greed within an armed population free from government interference. However, remove the materialism and opportunity for greed and the same anarchy appears in the US as it did in the final days of Rome.”

In contrast, the efforts of Putin et al to restore traditional Russian cultural and religious values validate the view that, once basic needs are met, human happiness and fulfillment is much, much more dependent upon human spiritual needs such as Truth and Justice, than it is on material comforts and the desire for power over others, both of which are ultimately insatiable.

Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 11 2022 16:44 utc | 57

thanks... i agree.. i sent a copy to melanie joly and my local federal mp.... i quoted from the article and expressed my disagreement over natos role in all of this..

Posted by: james | Aug 11 2022 15:18 utc | 29

LOL... good one... I went outside after 2 cups of morning coffee, gauged the wind speed direction and pissed into it at a 45% angle.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 11 2022 16:47 utc | 58

@Gerrard White #52

Thanks. I appreciate your input. However, you must admit there's not a lot of open source data to go along at this point. Rosstat no longer provides information on economic indicators, save for infrequent blemished figures. I can't for example look up MoM trade balance figures, comparing services or goods export value versus total value of imports. This data is important, and in lieu of such data source, you need to collect data from bottom-up instead; through companies still doing business, through trading partners that still do significant trade with Russia (for example you can get sufficiently good data from Chinese statistics to see how much trade they're doing with Russia) and other proprietary sources, which might not be the most optimal, but are still tangible enough to be of some use. The Yale report then coupled that with reports on the ground, such as Uralvagonzavod being on standstill due to lack of components, to create a somewhat realistic image of what's going on.

I don't think this is the true lookout, but it's the best what we can get at the moment. If we're just subscribing ourselves to cherry picked information and reports by either side, then we're just like everyone else receiving and taking information at face value.

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 16:48 utc | 59

On the "The Moscow Times": "The newspaper became online-only in July 2017 and launched its Russian-language service in 2020. In 2022, its headquarters were relocated to Amsterdam in the Netherlands. The website was later banned in the country."

In other words The Moscow Times is a Western psyOp that should be called The Amsterdam Times so let's stop wasting time on that toilet paper. Only trolls use it.

Posted by: xor | Aug 11 2022 17:08 utc | 60

KK @54. Very true. But MMT people do actually think deficits matter. Russia and China use their deficits productively. The US wastes them on war and stock market and real estate appreciation.

This eventually gets reflected in exchange rates especially if the military power of the US declines.

Russia and China have also advanced their military prowess without as much feeding of a greedy corporate war complex.

Posted by: financial matters | Aug 11 2022 17:17 utc | 61

I see the NATO/ Zio shills are in full throated voice on the thread again, spewing out their inimitable poison and retarded gibberish. Will probably soon get a job with the BBC.

Posted by: paul | Aug 11 2022 17:21 utc | 62

Not a huge fan of Saker for various reasons but he does come up with decent articles on Russia etc and the Ukraine situation. He now comes forth with an article for trolls which may have relevance for the troll watch on this site:

http://thesaker.is/a-short-vademecum-for-aspiring-trolls/

Excerpt:

I will make that short, bullet point style, for practical use. So here we go:

Rule number one: always make sure your comment is either the very first one (best!) or, at least, one of the top ones. This way you can best derail the discussion away from the actual article and make it all about your talking points. This was almost always the case when I was still writing for the Unz Review, and it is still very often the case on the Saker blog today. I would call this rule “the golden rule of trolling”.
Do not, ever, refer to the actual contents of article you comment upon. Doing so might lead the readers to familiarize themselves with the author’s arguments or, worse, the factual and logical substantiation of these arguments. You want emotion, not analysis.

Posted by: Taras 77 | Aug 11 2022 17:23 utc | 63

Posted by: Roger | Aug 11 2022 15:15 utc | 26

"July deprived the budget of two thirds of the surplus"

That's the heading for the Kommersant article, and taking it from there we have a typical case of sour grapes, two thirds of the surplus, I'm wondering if there is a single country in the so called "international community" that has heard about surpluses the last decade so as to not say the latest ten-year plan. Pathetic drive by with nothing to contribute.

Posted by: Paco | Aug 11 2022 17:35 utc | 64

Two consecutive paragraphs in a bbc article of the shelling of the nuclear power station

More shelling of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant has been reported, with Ukraine and Russia again blaming each other for the attack.

Each side said there were 10 hits on the plant's administrative office and fire station on Thursday.

Ukraine says Russia has turned the site into a military base, launching attacks from there, knowing that Ukrainian forces are unlikely to retaliate.

Moscow denies the claim.

In a statement on Thursday, Ukraine's nuclear agency Enerhoatom said that "Russian invaders again shelled the Zaporizhzhia plant and territories near the nuclear facility".

So Russia sets up a military base in the power plant and attacks Ukraine targets from there meanwhile shelling its own base from which it is attacking Ukraine????? How dumb must these BBC scribblers be to write something like that?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 11 2022 17:36 utc | 65

@rp [Aug 11 2022 15:47 utc | 45],

It's funny that you mention a trip to Crimea, that has been on mind for several years, way before 2022, and ever since reading a couple of books by author RH Auslander; specifically, "An Incident on Simonka" (2016?) and "Sevastopol, The Third Defense, 2013-2014: A Premonition, The Move South" (2018).

The books intrigued me, as the author seemed to have a very unique background, and I liked his use of the device of a novel (fiction) to suggest certain things that might or might not have actually taken place.

Posted by: Yashuo | Aug 11 2022 17:49 utc | 66

@ Opport Knocks | Aug 11 2022 16:47 utc | 58

your action might have a greater effect, lol.... i figure it doesn't hurt for these bozos to know that there are canadians who don't go along with the b.s. narrative..

Posted by: james | Aug 11 2022 18:12 utc | 67

@ Stonebird | Aug 11 2022 7:30 utc | 189 / 197 - from previous ukraine thread..

thanks for those posts.. the bulgarian military website is interesting... here is another article from it today -

Did HARMs punch a hole for ATACMS missiles at Russia’s Saki airbase?

hard to know what is going on here, but if the usa-uk are directly involved, i suspect ukraine and etc would say or acknowledge none of it.. on the other hand, i can imagine russia knowing and acting accordingly too... we'll see...

Posted by: james | Aug 11 2022 18:26 utc | 68

Military Summary yesterday or the day before reported 60 pilots injured in the blast from what he said are Russian sources in the open. He also stated that the whole Ukrainian leadership header for the bunkers when the heard of the blast.

What I do not understand is the amount of munitions in such a close proximity to so many aviators. Not many reported as having seen missiles in the air. Videos are few.

As Summary said, we will know the truth when Russia follows through on its promises to hit back hard. Taking credit for an accident may be enough.

The possibility of an accident can not be discounted as many have happened in times past...
List of accidents and incidents involving transport or storage of ammunition

Accident or incident?


Posted by: circumspect | Aug 11 2022 18:53 utc | 69

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5503866

Posted by: Roger | Aug 11 2022 15:15 utc | 26

https://www.deepl.com/translator

British English

July stripped the budget of two-thirds of its surplus
Public finance monitoring
5K
1 min.

...
The federal budget closed July with a very impressive R892bn deficit for a single month, which "ate up" most of the surplus accumulated at the end of the half-year, according to figures from the Finance Ministry released yesterday. Revenue for the current seven months is still higher than expenditure, but the difference has reduced from Rb 1.4 trillion to Rb 482bn, or by two-thirds.

However, the move towards budget deficit is not a big news in itself - July surprised only by the increased speed of this process. Earlier, head of the ministry Anton Siluanov said that the deficit could reach 2% of GDP by the end of the year. The draft "Basic guidelines of the budget, tax and customs-tariff policy for the years 2023-2025" talked about this year's deficit of 1.2% of GDP. It is planned to be closed, first of all, at the expense of the accumulations of the National Welfare Fund.

(Expand to full screen)

Almost all the amount of the still existing budget "surplus" was accumulated in the first quarter. In the second quarter, against the backdrop of the military operation in Ukraine and new sanctions, revenues were almost equal to expenditures. At the end of the seven months, federal budget revenues amounted to 15.8 trillion roubles (16% more than a year earlier, in fact - by the inflation rate), while expenditures were 15.3 trillion roubles (plus 21% on the previous year).

Separately, the situation looks markedly worse in July. The Ministry of Finance, following its new policy of withholding some information from taxpayers, does not provide figures for the previous month. However, from the difference between the figures for the seven and six months it follows that July revenues amounted to Rb 1.76 trillion - more than a quarter (by 26%) less than a year earlier. July revenues are also markedly lower than the average monthly revenues in the first half of this year (Rb 2.34 trillion). Both oil-and-gas and non-oil-and-gas revenues fell in July, by 23% and 29% respectively.

Budget expenditures in July, on the contrary, grew year-on-year, which led to a monthly deficit of Rb892bn. July spending totaled Rb2.65 trillion, up from a monthly average of Rb2.11 trillion in the first half of the year and July spending of Rb2.13 trillion last year (a 25% year-on-year increase). However, against the background of announced anti-crisis measures (previously the authorities estimated additional expenditures of 4 trillion rubles this year) this growth does not look uncontrollable.

Vadim Visloguzov

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Posted by: c | Aug 11 2022 19:01 utc | 70

Lovely quote from Maria
“The theme of British interference in the internal affairs of other states is so fascinating that it deserves a good film adaptation (more than a few). Scripts are freely available. These are our briefings.” — Zakharova"
***

james | Aug 11 2022 18:26 utc | 68

I believe a second HARM missile has been found "intact" today, although it did have shrapnel marks so could have been shot down, rather than just a malfunction.

The key question is what is the implantation of US troops and arms specialists? Don't wait up for a precise answer. But, the use and trial of "new" weapons is a definite feature of this war.
****

Meanwhile, I was looking into the "Greens" in Germany,and found the following examples of personnel. I understand now the confusion their presence has in German Governement. If you scroll up you will also find that the Russians have a suggestion on how to save water.

https://twitter.com/semper_vincit/status/1557514229795549184/photo/1

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 11 2022 19:02 utc | 71

Thinking about long-term mindset and tactics of the United States. While sometimes people speak about the incompetence or miseducation of American leaders, which is based on those that we hear speaking for the United States in public, this belief is misplaced. Those running the United States do play the long game - and they are willing to wing it within the plan. Look at how they played the multi-decade battles against the Indigenous Nations of the Americas - many battles lost, but in the long run, US plans worked, even though they changed as they went forward. The US is not going to give up trying to break down Russia and China. The US has been working over its 'allies' since the end of WW1 and through WW2 by manipulating war debt, and they continue to do so now. The US engineered the development of the European Union from the European Coal and Steel Community in 1950 and has continued to manipulate Europe until this moment. While China, Russia, Iran, and others are working to develop other economic communities, the US has been doing this work, with the European colonial/imperial experience as a forerunner, for quite a while, and it will play the long game until its citizens decide to change the foreign policy of our government to prevent this sort of policy which they have never been able to do (although I give some kudos to the Anti-War protests against Vietnam).

Jefferson proclaimed the US an "empire of liberty" unironically in the 1780's...this concept is still alive at the core of American Exceptionalism...the US is like the Terminator...it just keeps coming for what it wants. Sorry for the simile...I just watched all the Terminator movies with my teenage son at his request.

A while ago I posted a copy of a CIA planning document from 1957 setting forth the understanding at the time of the orientation of the population of Ukraine. The CIA stated that the south and east of Ukraine were at least neutrally-Russian oriented or actively Russian oriented. The plan was designed to figure out how to set up long-term resistance and opposition in Ukraine - it concludes that the operation will start in western Ukraine. This plan has more detailed origins with the same rough goal - back then to destroy the Communist bulwark against Capitalism, the USSR - and now to "decolonize" Russia, the symbol of 'autocracy'.
CIA Ukraine Analysis - 1957

In 1958, the CIA was working with the United Supreme Liberation Council (which unified the nationalist parties in Ukraine) - they were trying to change the minds of people living in Ukraine, and they continue to do so until now...with some success. This is not news, but simply evidence to support the determination of the US government and the interests it protects. The propaganda today is much more sophisticated and the younger people much more open to manipulation.
CIA Operation Aerodynamic - Ukraine

For more information about how the CIA relationship with Ukrainian nationalists developed - at least from the horse's mouth - check out the link below. The US is not going to give up on this 70 year project easily - and right now:
Origin of CIA Relationship with Ukrainian Nationalists

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 11 2022 19:07 utc | 72

If the explosions on Crimea were anything but an accident, Russia has to react and hit back, big time, where it hurts. The more often Russia does not react as announced, the less it will be taken seriously.

Posted by: Nico | Aug 11 2022 19:09 utc | 73

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 11 2022 19:07 utc | 72
--

CIA is a Nazi organisation, period!

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 19:11 utc | 74

The more often Russia does not react as announced, the less it will be taken seriously.

Posted by: Nico | Aug 11 2022 19:09 utc | 73
------

Have you played cards...? With an open hand...?😏

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 19:13 utc | 75

SitRep summary:

- either by accident or sabotage, in ine day, an explosion in a Crimean airbase destroyed more Russian airplanes, than the entire Ukrainian army in the last 2 months;

- there is no Ukrainian counter-offensive anywhere;

- Russia advances a few meters south and east of Bakhmut/Artemovsk, a few centimeters north of Kherson, and a few milimeters around Avdeevka;

- many Ukrainians return to the relatively peaceful oblast of Zaporozhe. In the Russian chekcpoits, food and water is distributed to the needing ones, vehicles are inspected by Russia military;

- reconstruction continues in Mariupol. New appartment buildings are getting ready;

- Russian helicopters patrol the Azov Seal coastline, where beaches are full of liberated Ukrainians on vacations;

- Ukrainian Black Sea coastline, parricularly near Odessa, has empty beaches. People are forbidden from going there, because of the threat caused by Ukrainian mines adrift;

- Russian MoD updates total number of destroyed Ukrainian MLRS to near 790. UK sends 3 more M270 MLRS and says "it will make a difference";

- CNN makes a story about a Ukrainian child that got hurt in a bombing; CNN still doesn't know there are children being killed in Donetsk by NATO weapons handled by Ultra-naZionalists;

- Westerners criticize Amnesty International for prooving Ukraine's regime war crimes. Opinion makers say "it's normal to use shcools and hospitals as military headquarters during war". Fortunately for them, the lack of shame is still not lethal...

- Ukraine shells a Nuclear Power Plant. The West criticizes Russia... For having, AT THE SAME TIME military presence in the NPP, and bombing their own NPP where their military are supposedly stationed;

- Europe eased sanctions on Russian cereals and other essential products, as well on the Russian banks processing that commerce;

- the lunatic Baltic states want to stop having the income from Russian tourism, violating Schengen area because of their hatred and racism and delusion;

- the same Baltic state that helped NATO invade and destroy other countries for no reason (other than ISA interests), now call Russia a "terrorist state" for the "crime" of fighting against Nazis and saving the people of the Donbass;

- Germany asks Portugal and Spain for help developing the Iberian Gas Pipeline, so that Germany can now have costlier gas and become dependent on Morocco and Algeria instead of Russia;

- Without conscripting, Russia still manages to find more and more volunteers to fight in Ukraine. It shows 2 things: 1) Russians also die and need to be replaced; 2) the limited SMO can only go as fast as the size of the professional army allows (very slowly);

- Now with around 35 BTG in Kherson and Kriviy Rog direction, we may expect to see Russian army advancing slowly on one more front;

- most of the fight is still artillery and positional battles. On one side, Russia has at least 10x more fire power. On the other side, looking at the "moon surface" full of craters AROUND Ukrainian trenches and bunkers, Russia also need 10 (or more) shells before hitting the targets;

- Ukraine posted a video, very proudly, where we can see a cheap drone dropping a hand grenade and hurting a medical team rescuing an injured person. It seems the Russian electronic devices don't work as effectively as advertised;

- looking at current pace, by the end pf August, maybe, MAYBE, Russian troops will have liberated one more neighbor in Soledar, and one more meter of land near Avdiivka;

- Putin was right, we haven't see anything yet. Stoltenberg was right, this will take long. Zelensky was right, this will be till the last Ukrainian. Von der Leyen was right, sanctions hurt. And Biden was also right, "Americjalfir fjsofb shkfuf merica".

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 11 2022 19:16 utc | 76

Dmitry Medvedev

On Thursday, he visited the Lugansk People's Republic, where he met with the heads of the LPR Leonid Pasechnik and the DPR Denis Pushilin.

On behalf of the President of the Russian Federation, he held a meeting on priority measures to ensure the security of the republics of Donbass.

At the meeting, which was attended by Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation Igor Krasnov, First Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation Sergei Kiriyenko, Interior Minister Vladimir Kolokoltsev, Minister of Construction Irek Fayzullin, FSB Director Alexander Bortnikov, Head of the Investigative Committee Alexander Bastrykin, they also considered issues of promoting economic and social development of the LNR and DNR.

Particular attention was paid to the harmonization of the laws of the LPR and DPR with the legislation of the Russian Federation, the restoration of infrastructure, the repair of hospitals and the preparation of schools for the start of the school year, the solution of social problems and the support of citizens.

The head of the Investigative Committee informed about the progress of the investigation of crimes committed by Ukrainian nationalists and the collection of evidence in the framework of the criminal cases.


Well, straight from the Bear's mouth

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 19:18 utc | 77

SitRep summary (now hopefully without the typos, please 'b' delete my first comment):

- either by accident or sabotage, in one day, an explosion in a Crimean airbase destroyed more Russian airplanes, than the entire Ukrainian army in the last 2 months;

- there is no Ukrainian counter-offensive anywhere. Only counter-desinformation;

- Russia advances a few meters South and East of Bakhmut/Artemovsk, a few centimeters North of Kherson, and a few milimeters around Avdeevka;

- many Ukrainians return to the relatively peaceful oblast of Zaporozhe. In the Russian checkpoints, food and water is distributed to the needing ones, vehicles are inspected by Russia military;

- reconstruction continues in Mariupol. New appartment buildings are getting ready;

- Russian helicopters patrol the Azov Sea coastline, where beaches are full of liberated Ukrainians on vacations;

- Ukrainian Black Sea coastline, particularly near Odessa, has empty beaches. People are forbidden from going there, because of the threat caused by Ukrainian mines adrift;

- Russian MoD updates total number of destroyed Ukrainian MLRS to near 790. UK sends 3 more M270 MLRS and says "it will make a difference";

- CNN makes a story about a Ukrainian child that got hurt in a bombing; CNN still doesn't know there are children being killed in Donetsk by NATO weapons handled by Ultra-naZionalists. It's called "journalism";

- Westerners criticize Amnesty International for showing proof of Ukraine's regime war crimes. Western opinion makers say "it's normal to use shcools and hospitals as military headquarters during war". Fortunately for them, the lack of shame is still not lethal...

- Ukraine shells a Nuclear Power Plant. The West criticizes Russia... For having, AT THE SAME TIME military presence in the NPP, and bombing their own NPP where their military are supposedly stationed. It smells like Bucha again...

- Europe eased sanctions on Russian cereals and other essential products, as well on the Russian banks processing that commerce. It seems empty bellies do not support the G7 priorities. Who would know?

- the lunatic Baltic states want to stop having the income from Russian tourism, violating Schengen area because of their hatred and racism and delusion;

- the same Baltic state that helped NATO invade and destroy other countries for no reason (other than USA interests), now call Russia a "terrorist state" for the "crime" of fighting against Nazis and saving the people of the Donbass. Next they say the Soviets were terrorist because of what they did to Germany in 1939-1945...

- Germany asks Portugal and Spain for help developing the Iberian Gas Pipeline, so that Germany can now have costlier gas and become dependent on Morocco and Algeria instead of Russia. Portuguese and Spanish people still under austerity say Germans should not have lived above its possibilities;

- Without conscripting, Russia still manages to find more and more volunteers to fight in Ukraine. It shows 2 things: 1) Russians also die and need to be replaced; 2) the limited SMO can only go as fast as the size of the professional army allows (very slowly);

- Now with around 35 BTG in Kherson and Kriviy Rog direction, we may expect to see Russian army advancing slowly on one more front;

- most of the fight is still artillery and positional battles. On one side, Russia has at least 10x more fire power. On the other side, looking at the "moon surface" full of craters AROUND Ukrainian trenches and bunkers, Russia also needs 10 (or more) shells before hitting the targets;

- Ukraine posted a video, very proudly, where we can see a cheap drone dropping a hand grenade and hurting a medical team rescuing an injured person. It seems the Russian electronic devices don't work as effectively as advertised;

- looking at current pace, by the end of August, maybe, MAYBE, Russian troops will have liberated one more neighborwood in Soledar, and one more meter of land near Avdiivka;

- Putin was right, we haven't see anything yet. Stoltenberg was right, this will take long. Macron was right, NATO has no brain. Zelensky was right, this will be till the last Ukrainian. Von der Leyen was right, sanctions hurt. And Biden was also right, "Americjalgir fjsofb shkfufmerica, yeah!".

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 11 2022 19:34 utc | 78

james | Aug 11 2022 18:26 utc | 68 plus my @71.

The HARM missile is air-launched and it is highly unlikely that the launchers could have been modified to fit ex-soviet era warplanes. (or even others I presume). So inadvertantly US being involved directly has been confirmed, IF they were used.

No wonder the Ukies in Kiev headed for the bunkers on the news about the attack on Crimea.
****

I still reckon the shelling of Zaporhiza (now on the storage of radioactive materials) is designed to hide an eventual use of tactical (not strategic) nuclear weapons. ie Small and nasty. There was were at least two possible examples of them being "used" in Iraq in Fallujah. Both had the distinct mushroom cloud, however, one of those was an massive ammunition dump that went up. Although that could have been the use of thermobaric or something equally nasty.

Note that the "white" shock wave seen in the Beirut explosion, may have been a military explosive that they might want to use again in another war situation. The red part of the cloud being the Ammonium Nitrate which also exploded, (Fertilizers again).
****

Although the type of explosives mentioned above are speculation on my part - the question is exactly what the Uke/US forces expect to gain by ruining most of the country by shelling Zaphoriza? If they want a "zone" created around the nuclear plant, it will be necessary to wear Hazmat suits in perpetuity to farm the surrounding land?


Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 11 2022 19:40 utc | 79

Posted by: moaobserver | Aug 11 2022 16:15 utc | 53

"Right now the most important location in the war is Kherson"? It's behind the lines so it's importance is its PR value, just like Mariupol and Zaporizhzhia. The much-touted UF southern offensive has sputtered out, leaving only a bit of long range rocketry to buoy up the Naziphiliacs. The real UF pattern is shelling civilian concentrations and easy infrastructure targets while losing ground and resources. RF troop movements are consistent with UF redeployment to the South and reduced UF defences toward Kramatorsk etc. So no, it doesn't look like brainy youth spotting inconvenient truths, it looks like the usual NATO propagandists cherry-picking Zelensky's panicky PR moves. And nothing says panic like shelling your own nuclear infrastructure.

Posted by: T Paine | Aug 11 2022 19:42 utc | 80

Nico@73....the airport attack is in desperation, it won't stop artillery.
For effect, we see the attack, one maybe two attacks, looks good, great MSN cover, but those are ZNATO replies to being kicked in the balls for 5 months. We have absolutely no idea, not one iota, of who was vaporized in country. Far behind the lines. We have no idea of who Russia is killing, War Merchants, Merc centres, training bases, hidden command bunkers, NATO advisors, US, lots of Poles...the HIMARs are great for hitting fixed target sitting ducks then it must run away. Russia will need to find a counter for the logistical interruptions.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 11 2022 19:48 utc | 81

Dmitry Medvedev...
медведь, Medved - Bear.

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 19:53 utc | 82

What is Don't Pay UK's plan?

The campaign is threatening energy companies with the prospect of millions of households stopping bill payments, in a bid to pile pressure on companies to reduce bills to "affordable levels".

The group already has support from almost 100,000 people.

Protesters planning to stop paying their direct debits on 1 October in a 'mass payment strike' are being warned of consequences - like being chased by debt collectors.

The 'Don't Pay UK' campaign is calling for widespread energy bill boycotts as costs soar for households up and down the country. The energy price cap is expected to rise by around 50% from October, meaning bills for the average household not on a fixed tariff could rise from £1,971 per year to a predicted £3,315.

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 19:56 utc | 83


Someone posted refugee statistics that were not completely up to date the other day and working from memory Russia had taken in
3.2 million, Poland 1.1 million and a few to the EU, Switzerland are real stand out at 29K. The Ukrainians are voting with their
feet and "Down to the Last Ukrainian" is not going to work.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Aug 11 2022 19:58 utc | 84

@ Stonebird | Aug 11 2022 19:02 utc | 71 // 79

humourous twitter link - thanks.... i suspect we will find out what happened at the base in crimea soon enough, but speculation is rampant... military channel today is speculating that the crazies trying to bomb the nuke plant are hoping this will shut down all of southern ukraine - kherson and etc and prevent the vote on joining russia... hard to know if there is any merit to this idea.. thanks for your posts..

@ Carlos Marques | Aug 11 2022 19:34 utc | 78

regarding the quote of many airplanes ( 60?) taken out is extremely speculative as i see it.. i think we have to wait for more info.. thanks for the update..

Ukraine Battle - TOS1A in Peski

Posted by: james | Aug 11 2022 20:13 utc | 85

moaobserver #53

Thank you for that link. Interesting times.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 11 2022 20:15 utc | 86

Despite repeated statements by the Interdepartmental Coordination Headquarters of the Russian Federation for Humanitarian Response, the armed formations of Ukraine continue to strike at nuclear power facilities.

On August 11, 2022, units of the 44th Artillery Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine fired at the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant from 152 mm guns from the settlement of Nikopol. As a result of the strikes, the thermal power plant for its own needs and the equipment of the spray pools of the cooling system of nuclear reactors were partially damaged. Only thanks to the skillful, competent and effective actions of the units of the Russian Armed Forces to cover the nuclear power facility, the critical infrastructure of the NPP was not damaged and the operation of the reactors was not disrupted.

On August 10, 2022, artillery units of the 110th separate mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the village of Avdiivka shelled the territory of a brewery in Donetsk, where there were dangerous chemicals used in the production process.

As a result of the shelling, the 40-ton capacity of the cooling system was damaged, from which more than six tons of ammonia leaked. After the explosion, a toxic cloud formed, which spread over an area of two square kilometers. One employee of the company was killed, two received severe burns of the respiratory tract.

The operational actions of the units of the Ministry of Emergency Situations of the Donetsk People's Republic managed to eliminate the consequences of an artillery strike and prevent casualties among the local population.

We emphasize that this is not the first deliberate shelling of radiation and chemically dangerous objects by Ukrainian armed formations, as a result of which a real threat to the life and health of thousands of civilians is created. We regard these criminal actions of the Ukrainian authorities as acts of terrorism. This is another proof of genocide by the criminal Kiev regime of the civilian population of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, fighting for their independence from Ukrainian Nazism.

Posted by: name | Aug 11 2022 20:20 utc | 87

southfront has satellite pictures of the crimea airbase blown up yesterday, and military summary channel states st least 20 airplanes taken out. both sources suspect most likely cause being Ukrainian commando sabotage of some sort!

yesterday I posted that there was definitely an attack, and definitely Russian airplane losses.

i was told it was propaganda and not to be a troll.

concern troll, maybe
but more likely, DON'T BE COMPLIANT & QUESTION EVERYTHING!

Once again thank state!

This is a bad look for Russia, letting her Red Lines be completely crossed, and instead of responding and taking out decision centers as threatened to be a response for attacking crimea,

she denied the attack claiming an accident!

THIS COMES OFF AS WEAKNESS, although the suspect their restraint actually comes from a position of holding more strength.

THAT'S NOT HOW THE UKIE NAZIS TAKE IT, and if Russia doesn't step up her Response to these Serious mistakes, they will only increase in magnitude.
aka, emboldened attacks on the NPPs!

it's time for Russia to step up her actions, accept that she's in a REAL WAR, not just a special military operation, AND START POUNDING THE PRESSURE ON THE UKRAINIAN ELITE AND DECISION MAKERS!

TAKE OUT THE NARCOTIC NARCISSIST ZELINSKY and the rest of the Bandera scum realize that they are touchable!

Start moving towards dneper kiri rog, and more so, Zeparohia city! start applying pressure across the whole Frontline!

start accepting volunteers from the middle east and central Asia who wish to help the allies defeat nato backed nazis in Ukraine.

and more importantly, start daily flyer runs of propaganda pamphlets over Ukrainian front line areas offering amnesty to average ukie conscripts who surrender their weapons and positions to the allied Russian forces.


also include pamphlets telling Ukrainian civilians to evacuate front line areas, areas next to military targets, and find shelter if evacuation is impossible, because a new phase of bombing will coming.
maybe promise homes lost from Russian strikes will be replaced by new homes in liberated areas?
Do something to adapt!

and most importantly, BLOW THE F*@K OUT OF ALL UKRAINIAN RAIL LINES, RAIL BRIDGES, AND BRIDGES GOING WEST TO POLAND!

MAYBE EVEN TAKE ANOTHER 100K TROOPS AND RE-ENCIRCLE zkiev!


it's time to stop war gaming, and start War Gaining!


that said, i understand the desire to eliminate as much of the ukie armed forces in the donbas meat grinder,

but at this point it's mostly former civilian defense forces with light arms being ground into human meat patties there. which is turning civilian ukie families against Russia in the long run.

instead, send zircon to zelinsky zulhellwho (what ever the generals name is), klitshit mayor of kievistan, and all the corrupt upper echelons of the Ukrainian high command and oligarchy!

decapitate the beast!
only then can you free the Ukrainian people, and only then can you prevent further Russian military losses!


Come on mang!

yall know know these goons don't play fair or think straight!

you give them a meter (even negotiated), they take a mile, soit in your face, and shit on your front porch!

it's time to light em up!

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Aug 11 2022 20:21 utc | 88

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Aug 11 2022 19:58 utc | 84
------
From 24.02 up to 10.08, there were 5,417 million from Ukraine to Poland, while up to 10.08 3,545 million had left Poland. So, there's about 1,847 million Ukrainians still in Poland.
- Straż Graniczna

Posted by: rp | Aug 11 2022 20:23 utc | 89

There is a hunger for unity but nothing to grasp onto to unify us other than said hunger.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Aug 11 2022 15:47 utc | 44

The problem in corporate owned USA governed America is access of the masses to the facts.. unity happens as soon as the masses understand all of the facts..because deep down America is understood by Americans.
Those interested in American unity must somehow avoid the corporate blocking of facts allowed by those who are in charge of the transportation of information from source to audience. And must understand, Americans have not been allowed to learn to read print and account for domestic events by collecting and organizing the cues global, seemingly unrelated events offer.
Americans fail to understand how rule of law and government secrets controls information. .
Americans are accustomed to How to videos and thrive on short headlines and they have been taught to talk to each other in very contingent terms, ignore anything the source says, if what is being said, does not comport with what the MSM claims.

Until a break though in the truth fidelity and completeness of facts from source of information to American ear is achieved and a revolution in teaching is achieved, and the detection of misleading, wrong, or fabricated information in propaganda becomes a common attribute of Americans, obtaining unity in USA governed America is a horizon not likely ever to be caught up with.

I of course cannot predict the direction that unity will take, but I can suggest that the most needed information type is information that makes Americans aware of the geography and history of the globe and causes Americans to think in global terms, domestic laws, and corporate monopoly power to explain domestic events. Without knowledge of geography, history of, and the political awareness and social circumstances of each of the people of the various nations in the 256 member nation state system, Americans will never unify to achieve a political solution. Always Americans will identify more with being Democrap or Reputaturd.

Keeping those things from Americans in order to prevent unity has been the essence of corporate ownership of the government; it explains why few people understand how the corporate powers are used to force the politicians so the corporations can use the law making powers of government, to generate monopoly power that the private corporations can own and use to abuse those they sell to.
It is the highly paid profession of information control that has kept Americans in 50%/50% political null balanced state. Neither side can win the tug of war, until the information engineers present propaganda that tells Americans which way to jump.

Posted by: snake | Aug 11 2022 20:25 utc | 90

Carlos Marques #78

Excellent black prose. :)

Thank you. Keep writing.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 11 2022 20:25 utc | 91

Maxar published new satellite images of airbase in Crimea before and after explosions.
On this images u can see at least nine destroyed military aircrafts, including Su-30SM fighters and Su-24M bombers.
Hard to believe the MOD version of an accident.
Maybe Maxar is faking their images?

Posted by: Chessmaster | Aug 11 2022 20:27 utc | 92

The two Alex'es on the Crimea incident
Crimea airbase explosions. EU's Borrell says 'we are at war'

They go for the accident explanation.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 11 2022 20:34 utc | 93

The gas war with Europe, the falling economy and the out-of-control ruble exchange rate have dealt a heavy blow to the Russian budget.

Non-oil and gas revenues are under pressure because of restrictions related to the sanctions, points out Stanislav Murashov, an analyst with Raiffeisenbank: the country is experiencing a decline in entire industries - from the automobile industry to metallurgy; imports have recovered by only a fifth, and the economic decline is accelerating - 2.8% in April, 4.3% in May, 4.9% in June, according to the MED.

Posted by: gerimov | Aug 11 2022 14:09 utc | 7

Meanwhile in the west. Hyper stagflation "Venezuela Style" is currently destroying all western G20 economies. Massive shortages in all goods and a very broken supply chain. The USSA is rapidly evolving into the new Argentina of the northern hemisphere. In a country where 30% of the population have put their faith in a liar and a charlatan to lead them into a new world paradise(hell really). You have already lost the war.

When you believe your own propaganda lies. Consisting of a mere 2% of reality of the real world. As the only truth. You have already lost the war.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Aug 11 2022 20:37 utc | 94

How Russia wants to survive a real war with NATO if they performe against Nato Proxy Ukraine army so bad and poor. Expecially the air defense is extremely disappointing

Posted by: Chessmaster | Aug 11 2022 20:41 utc | 95

The links between The Moscow Times and The Netherlands are far from coincidental. The Times was the emblematic journal of the Yeltsin years, it celebrated the rapid decline of life expectancy and the immiseration that came with capitalism, kleptocracy and a CIA desk in every ministry in Moscow. Those were the days in which the 'westernisers' in Russia ruled supreme though, of course, only as compradors, Russian parasites serving a foreign empire.

That Empire, now centred in Washington/New York after centuries of incubation in London, actually originated in Holland, which grew up building the maritime trade complexes that fed the financial centre of Amsterdam, which dominated Europe in the C17th and early C18th. People tend to forget that to the East Indies and West Indies, from which the Dutch sucked untold riches in ruthless colonial enterprises, raping the rapacious Portuguese and Spanish governments; should be added the north 'Indies" of the herring fishery and the Polish grain trade, which was probably, in the early years of Dutch independence, the richest vein of all.
And by Polish, of course, is meant Ukrainian and Baltic: the Dutch, through Danzig and other Baltic ports, imported the grain surpluses that Polish aristocrats screwed out of peasants who were beaten down into serfdom, binding them to the Lords' land in a country in which there was never a shortage of land to cultivate. As the later irruption of the Cossacks, fleeing Feudalism, sword in hand showed. Cultivators, labour, were the source of surpluses and wealth in the founding era of capitalism. The silver of Peru and Mexico passed through Amsterdam and lured the Polish nobility into a virtual enslavement of the Ukrainian peasantry.
From the first the values of western Europe spelled doom to freedom for the common people, in eastern Europe as in Java or Guyana, just as now, under the firm grip of NATO, Ukraine's trade unions and political parties have been crushed in the interests of the, re-located, financiers of Amsterdam.

The Dutch government that is leading the way in Europe's vilification of Russia and has been since the MH17 was shot down, remains deeply invested in Ukraine and Ukrainian agriculture. The Empire which NATO fronts has been wrestling with Russia over Ukrainian resources for half of a millennium.

The Moscow Times fears, as well it might, not the end of capitalism but the final drowning of imperialism, exemplified in the long financial rule of Threadneedle and Wall Streets.

The Moscow Times weeps crocodile tears over the hole in Russia's budget caused by the Empire's seizing of its reserves but it is hard to believe that it misses the reality that the actual consequence of the Empire's sanctions involves the discrediting of its finances in a world of fiat currencies in which credit is everything. And all the commodities, from precious metals to rare earths, are elsewhere.

This is not the first time that the Empire has put up an impenetrable barrier between Europe and Russia but this time everything is changed. On the Russian side of the barrier is most of the world's population and resources, on the western side a continent without purpose now that it has lost the host on which, parasitically, it waxed fat. Europe is now in the position where it may/must choose between complementing the great throbbing mass of eurasia, adding to its Pacific, Arctic and Indian coasts an Atlantic seaboard, or shivering cold and neglected, like an ancient pauper with Covid in an unheated apartment, under the notional care and protection of a north America which never really was the old country's favoured child. And knows it.

The policy of using Ukraine to provoke Russia into a weakening war, was really a bet, by the children running the Empire in these days when its nominal leaders are in their second childhood, that if the Russian middle class could not get its Jack Daniels, Levis and cruises in the Mediterranean it would run amok, tear down the government and give Russia away, again, to the inventors of Vogue, Hollywood and the New York Times. It is clear enough now that that is not going to happen and that those who cannot tear themselves away from waiting for its coming are doomed to see, in its place, the new orientation towards China, India and Persia. Nor will it be long before they see the cold and saxon peripheries-Australasia, for example- as well as the first outposts of Empire, such as Brazil, Bolivia, the Caribbean and south Africa, detaching themselves and gravitating inexorably towards the
eurasian heartlands.
Or is there another way of interpreting Argentina's application to join BRICs, and the UAE and Saudi bid for entry into the SCO?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 11 2022 20:44 utc | 96

Josep Borrell is a criminal green washed Nazi. He has already been found guilty of insider share dealing, among various other criminal delicts. These criminal zombies are controlling EU.

Posted by: Chessmaster | Aug 11 2022 20:46 utc | 97

natural gas update - another step up since the latest round of provocations

TTF Dec2022 = 215 €/MWh (was 195 on August 8th)
TTF Q4-2023 = 183 €/MWh (was 152 on August 8th)

translation: market expects no compromise in next 18 months

Posted by: ptb | Aug 11 2022 20:49 utc | 98

"....Stanislav Murashov, an analyst with Raiffeisenbank...."
Spot the mistake.
He is a classic 5th column and he is on the payroll of CIA

Posted by: Chessmaster | Aug 11 2022 20:51 utc | 99

Can the off topic thread interrupters depart to the other stuff open thread. Please take your Russian budget and other misplaced stuff with you.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 11 2022 20:53 utc | 100

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