Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 09, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-125

Only for news & views related to the Ukraine conflict.

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Yesterday Russia destroyed a Ukrainian airforce command center:

High-precision long-range air-based missiles have destroyed an active buried command post of AFU Air Force near Voronivtsa, Vinnitsy Region.

Today several explosions took place at the Saki military airport on Crimea. Ukraine claims it attacked the site. There were however no incoming missiles seen or heard.

Russia considers Crimea as its territory. It had threatened to attack 'decision centers' should such attacks on its territory occur.
---

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on August 9, 2022 at 14:01 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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How to recreate Fukushima?

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 9 2022 5:58 utc | 156

Much of the propaganda spew on Zaporizhia was triggered by the Ukrainian attack on the plant of Aug. 5th. That damaged transformers and power lines that tripped safety protection systems on Unit 4 (then at full power) resulting in a scram and shutting it down. A reactor trip is always a BIG deal ANYWHERE when a reactor is at full power. It remains in cold shutdown today - neither the IAEA, Energoatom (state nuke operator) nor the World Nuclear Association have reported it being restarted or brought back on line.

That only leaves Unit 1 and 2 reactors operating - the other four are reported in cold shutdown. Now, any further insane Ukrainian attack could damage equipment resulting in another reactor trip leaving only one running. That, itself, is an unsafe condition as that reactor (and the spent fuel cooling pools of all six reactors) must rely on outside power for backup. The plant has emergency generators, but they're located outside. The generators and their fuel supply are extremely vulnerable to damage from shelling or drones.

Thank you for bringing up the topic. I have avoided writing about this, as the prospects are too horrifying. Reactor 4 is not in cold shutdown. Secondary reactions are still happening, producing decay heat. It takes several weeks for the reactor to cool to the state where forced cooling is not needed. An electric power supply is absolutely necessary during this period. There may be no way of safely shutting down a nuclear power plant without outside electricity or functioning diesel generators.

The Fukushima nuclear disaster happened because of a loss of electric power. The earthquake caused a SCRAM of all reactors. The tsunami flooded the backup diesel generators. Connection to the power grid was also lost, likely because of the earthquake. Three reactors reached meltdown.

All of these efects can happen in Zaporizhia, if the power plant comes under heavy shelling. The latest incidents and the disinformation from Kiev solidify my belief that Ukraine cannot be allowed to exist as an independent state.

From what I assume is a FAKE Petri Krohn@139

No, I am very real. :)

One of the last defenses against censorship is repeating official lies ad absurdum. I am practicing for that day, not too far in the future.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Aug 9 2022 14:11 utc | 1

So, a question to the barflies:

Did the Ukies hit Crimean RAF base in response to the Russian attack on the Ukie AF base in Vinnitsa (sp?) or did RAF hit the latter in response to the former?? Timeline isn't clear to me...

Posted by: Simplicius | Aug 9 2022 14:22 utc | 2

Crimean missile defence is solid. This event is more likely sabotage or even (less likely) an accident.

Posted by: Ciaran | Aug 9 2022 14:26 utc | 3

Ukraine recently (June 2022) signed a deal with Westinghouse (Toshiba) for it to look after Ukraine's nuclear needs. UK, US Sweden, Japan looked forward to profiting from Ukraine's power generation, at a cost to the Ukrainian taxpayer. Corporate wars, anyone? Makes the East India Company look tame.

Back in 2019:
"Ukraine’s Zaporozhye-5 nuclear unit was loaded entirely with reactor fuel supplied by US-based Westinghouse Electric Company during a recent outage, Ukrainian state-owned nuclear operator Energoatom said. There are now 163 Westinghouse fuel assemblies in the reactor core of the VVER 1000/V320 pressurised water reactor in southeast Ukraine, a statement said."

Funny that Zaporozhye should be the site of this new crisis.

Posted by: Jeremn | Aug 9 2022 14:29 utc | 4

Russia claims it was an accident. No casualties are being reported.

Posted by: Phenix | Aug 9 2022 14:33 utc | 5

In response to Simplicius@2,

The former happened at 15:20 today and the latter appears to have happened on Sunday, so the timeline is clear. However, I wouldn't be too quick to connect the two events, as it isn't yet clear whether there's Ukrainian involvement in the Saki airbase incident.

Posted by: Skiffer | Aug 9 2022 14:35 utc | 6

Link no workee

Posted by: A.Pols | Aug 9 2022 14:35 utc | 7

Petri Krohn @ 1

My comment towards that post was general. I figured that was a troll using your name or pure sarcasm.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 9 2022 14:38 utc | 8

https://www.rt.com/russia/560525-russia-destroys-himars-rockets/
looks like another Russian bullseye?

https://www.rt.com/russia/560532-explosions-crimea-navy-airfield/
the blasts were caused by detonation of ammunition at the base, the Russian defense ministry said in a statement, adding that nobody was hurt in the incident.

Posted by: snake | Aug 9 2022 14:40 utc | 9

Apparently the change-over to Westinghouse fuel bundles for several Units was projected to still ongoing to as late as 2021.
https://www.neimagazine.com/news/newszaporozhye-5-fully-loaded-with-westinghouse-fuel-7561138

"During trial use at South Ukraine in 2012, the fuel became deformed causing damage to the reactor and Ukraine subsequently suspended the use of Westinghouse fuel pending its redesign. Following the 2014 change of government, the contract was revived and extended. In early 2018, Energoatom and Westinghouse Electric further extended the contract until 2025."

Might there be something about the Westinghouse fuel that the US/ZATO doesn't want Russia to make public? Was this where Zelenski thought the fissile material for his nuclear weapons was supposed to come from?

Changing nuke fuel is not a trivial exercise.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 14:45 utc | 10

"It had threatened to attack 'decision centers' should such attacks occur."
Yes but nothing of the sort ever happens, so Kiev gets emboldened further and further. An idle threat is worse that one that's left unsaid. Seeing how Moscow has called several Western bluffs over the course of this conflict, it should only expect to be treated likewise.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Aug 9 2022 14:51 utc | 11

The Russian Defense Ministry — about the explosions in the Crimea:

On August 9, at about 15.20 on the territory of the Saki airfield near the settlement of Novofedorovka, a detonation of several aviation ammunition occurred on a collapsed storage site.

As a result of the explosion, no one was injured. Aviation equipment at the airfield is not damaged.

Measures are being taken to extinguish the fire and find out the causes of the explosion.

According to the report from the site, there was no impact on the collapsed ammunition storage area at the airfield.

Posted by: explosions | Aug 9 2022 14:52 utc | 12

explosions@11...loitering munitions.
There are no coincidences in war. That the Ukies can move two battalions of tanks along the front line unmolested begs questions, or speaks volumes.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 9 2022 14:57 utc | 13

MSM has been playing up the option of Ukraine blowing the Kerch Strait Bridge. I presume that Russia has made it clear that if that happens, all bridges in (Central & Western) Ukraine will soon be gone?

Posted by: elkern | Aug 9 2022 15:00 utc | 14

Therefore,
Nuclear power is not the way for electrical power generation. People need to stop promoting it.

Posted by: HelenB | Aug 9 2022 15:04 utc | 15

Maybe volley, maybe sabotage. Local officials report 'several explosions' as opposed to just one. Ministry of Defense says 'several air launched munitions'. Videos all seem to start play only from just after or during final blast, even from several different vantage points.

Posted by: Josh | Aug 9 2022 15:06 utc | 16

Russia should not be thrown off it current path.
I suspect it will not.

Posted by: jared | Aug 9 2022 15:42 utc | 17

Josh | Aug 9 2022 15:06 utc | 16

Several explosions would happen anyway, it's ammo exploding in series.
I doubt it was a missile attack, there is no report of missiles flying and from 250-300km away they can't be missed. What remains is sabotage or accident.

Posted by: rk | Aug 9 2022 15:43 utc | 18

As Ukraine collapses its behavior will become more desperate - this is a confirmation of collapse.

Same is true of US mid-term elections.

Posted by: jared | Aug 9 2022 15:46 utc | 19

elkern | Aug 9 2022 15:00 utc | 14

No one knows. We should ask online warrior Medvedev.
After soldiers being tortured, npp and cities over border attacked, chemicals exploded, petal mines and so on with zero response you can assume they'll again do nothing.

Posted by: rk | Aug 9 2022 15:51 utc | 20

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 14:45 utc | 10

It was claimed at the time that the Westinghouse substitute was outside specification in that it had a different composition and a different cross section. If that's true then it was unsuitable in the first place.

Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 9 2022 15:53 utc | 21

Therefore,
Nuclear power is not the way for electrical power generation. People need to stop promoting it.

Posted by: HelenB | Aug 9 2022 15:04 utc

Having worked a bit in the nuke industry, I can say that nuclear power CAN be safe, BUT you have to keep the bean-counters and regulatory know-nothings at bay.

The bean counters and their political comrades can't stand spending on maintenance. Back in the day, Ontario Hydro Nuclear plants were in real danger of being permanently closed because the required maintenance was not being done. Even after that was somewhat dealt with, years later I was still fielding calls from repair techs trying to buy non-qualified "replacements" for certain expensive, difficult to purchase components.

When asked why they were trying an end-run on the specifications, the techs invariably replied, we do it in the US all the time, why not in Canada? Digging further, it usually came down to "the big bosses said get it running, don't care how". Fortunately they didn't get away with that crap on my watch... but then I got fired soon after. HHHMMM.

So ya, nuclear power as it is currently being run is not as safe or cost effective as it could/should be. But to abandon the entire industry is like blaming a car for breaking down when you won't change the oil/filter because it costs "too much".

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 16:09 utc | 22

I'm expecting the UKRoNazi Lines to continue giving in, spreading thin, and breaking up to the Grind. Autumn/Winter is when we'll see more Desertions and Surrendering as Kharkov, Nikolayev, Odessa are taken.

Kiev sending in Women to the Frontlines in Autumn will fuel MSM Hysteria for a few weeks.

Posted by: IronForge | Aug 9 2022 16:10 utc | 23

elkern@14...what, and impede traffic in the Ukraine...bit of a joke at this point.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 9 2022 16:16 utc | 24

@rk #20

The Ukrainians say that they have lost 200,000 soldiers, along with mot of their airforce, navy and thousands of tanks and weapons. So it is lucky that Russia has made zero response or Ukraine might be in real trouble.

Posted by: Tim | Aug 9 2022 16:27 utc | 25

As expected, Ukraine turned on the Arestovich "method" and began to change shoes on the go. An adviser to the Ukie presidential office, Podolyak, said that all the talk about a counteroffensive on Kherson were part of an information-psychological special operation.

The "attack" of the Ukraine Army did not take place for a number of reasons.

* The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation keep the Ukie Army in such stress that the Ukie General Staff cannot plan actions even for a week ahead.

* Add to this the death of senior and middle officers, most of the commanders, Zaluzhny's mediocrity and Zelensky's personal desire to give orders.

* Instead of normal command and control of the troops, outright rubbish is obtained. Now this failure will be passed off as a brilliant plan.

Everything is as usual.

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 16:36 utc | 26

Russia took Kherson over five months ago in early March 2022.

It baffles me why they have not moved on Nikolaev in over 5 months.

What are they waiting for exactly?

Will it be another 5 months (January 2023) before the Russians make a move?

Posted by: Julian | Aug 9 2022 16:40 utc | 27

Why would the Russian reaction to what happened in Crimea be any different than when Ukraine has bombed Russian territory in the past in the Belgorod area? Russian officials talk about hitting "decision making centers" but they haven't ever really followed through with that threat.

Posted by: Apotheoun | Aug 9 2022 17:04 utc | 28

I think Russia might wait until the Ukie-nazis stop sending new troops/weapons to the front lines to make significant territory moves. Think about it, except for a few munitions lobbed at civilian targets and a few US-fired precision shots the Russian military can just stay put and efficiently deal with the stream of cannon fodder and weapons, keeps Russian supply lined short and on firmly held routes. Once that stops, Russia will move forward, knowing the Ukie-nazis have little further replacements for "counteroffensives".

The danger there is if the US/ZATO decides to commit US/ZATO troops directly into Ukraine to march over the bodies of dead Ukrainian conscripts. I doubt that will happen with the impending US midterms. The Dems would have a hard time convincing voters it is a good thing US soldiers are suddenly coming home in flag-draped coffins.

After the midterms, the GOP is as likely to ramp up the war as the Dems.

I expect Russia to make some surprise moves which make it clear to the GOP warmongers that it will not finish in their favour. Like encircling Kiev, but not invading the city? The GOP could then let Ukraine fall and blame the Dems for not being "tough on Putin".

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 17:05 utc | 29

I find it very disappointing to say the least that so few editorial writers deal with the reality of Ukraine's actual being--that the Outlaw US Empire completely took over with its 2014 coup and governed through its chosen proxies. Further, that all policy was also made in Washington, including all genocidal actions via laws and terrorism. Russia knows all that and no longer has any illusions about what the Outlaw US Empire's policies actually are and what philosophy they represent.

My comment's prompted by Glenn Diesen's RT op/ed about Zelensky being readied to be thrown under the bus and his inability to face the genuine, ugly truth about Ukraine and its actual ruler, the Outlaw US Empire, and that would include the long sordid history of CIA sponsorship of Nazism in Ukraine since 1945, an objective fact no writer seems capable of acknowledging.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2022 17:23 utc | 30

re Tim | Aug 9 2022 16:27 utc | 25
"....The Ukrainians say that they have lost 200,000 soldiers, along with mot of their airforce, navy and thousands of tanks and weapons. So it is lucky that Russia has made zero response or Ukraine might be in real trouble.."

good one, Tim! hahaha

let's not forget to add in all the ammo centers, the mercenary hangouts and training camps, the military repair shops and shopping centers/warehouses full of vehicles and supplies, the recently arrived hardware from their nato 'friends' that have been blown to smithereens, etc etc.

I often see too, via some twitter accounts, that there are near nightly air raid alerts over the entire territory of 'Ukraine' - a lot is being de-militarized and de-nazified that we don't necessarily hear about

Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 9 2022 17:28 utc | 31

@ Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 16:09 utc | 22

The big problem with nuclear is that it isn't scalable, for the reasons you mention - regulatory scaling is unpopular and maintenance spending by private and public institutions always comes too cheap. To make nuclear as the primary source of energy feasible, North Americans north of the Rio Grande need to live lifestyles more like Frenchmen - personal car ownership needs to be more rare, people need to live closer together, and air conditioners shouldn't run below 78 in the summers.

Not gonna happen. North Americans are in for a shock. To their white surprise, there will be no techno-fixes to save them from ecological crisis.

Posted by: fnord | Aug 9 2022 17:30 utc | 32

Russia might find it fit to stall the war as long as possible to drive the US's European vassals further into economic crisis while they use artillery and cruise missiles to batter the remains of the Ukrainian military without absorbing too many casualties of its own.

That's my pro-Russian wishful thinking anyway! Who really knows? But the lack of movement almost certainly has to do with the Russians trying to avoid casualties.

Posted by: fnord | Aug 9 2022 17:32 utc | 33

@Julian the simple explanation would be that Russia can't - Ukraine has prioritized the region to protect Odessa and potentially attack toward Kherson, Russia got bloodied pretty badly trying to move on Mikolaiv during "phase 1", and supply lines are not so easy north of the river with bridge crossings fairly spaced out and in degraded condition and most of the territory within conventional fires range for Ukraine.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 17:42 utc | 34

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 17:42 utc | 33
---

And, you get the info from Lusia Arestowich, eh?

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 17:48 utc | 35

@rp, no, and unlike you I don't get it from Simonyan either

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 18:09 utc | 36

@Julian #27

Why haven't the Russians taken Nikolaev?

Minus the continued shelling of Donetsk and things like nuclear power plants, I suspect the Russians are happy enough with the current front lines. The Ukrainians want to be in cities with human shields and repurposed civilian infrastructure. Right now they're stuck in the field being crushed in multiple places.

The Russians are happy enough to let the Ukraine feed it's manpower into a meat grinder. The Russians will then advance once they assess the Ukrainians are near collapse, up to the point where resistance stiffens again. Storming fortifications is nasty business, and storming cities is nastier still. Not to mention manpower and casualty intensive. The time to storm additional cities may, and probability will, come, but it's better for the Russians to destroy as much Ukrainian potential in the field as possible before that.

Especially since, early on, the Ukrainians seemed to be worse than ISIS with respect to human shields and knowing when to take a Russian offer to get on a bus and go someplace safe.

Posted by: Another James | Aug 9 2022 18:13 utc | 37

Posted by: fnord | Aug 9 2022 17:30 utc

Wrong thread. Wrongheaded ideas.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 18:14 utc | 38

Posted by: Julian | Aug 9 2022 16:40 utc | 27
--

Nikolayev is not the main target yet. It is anyway blocked from the sea. Soledar has to be taken, which is partly done. Soledar has massive amount of underground tunnels, where one can run a Kamaz truck. Those tunnels are used as armoury and hiding place for Ukie soldiers. Then, Bakhmyt, Slavyansk and Kramatorsk has to be taken. Those are highly fortified towns. Ukies had 8 years to build those fortifications. They won't be taken from front, but by surrounding them. Kharkov has to be surrounded, but still it is not the priority yet.

Once, Bakhmyt, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk are taken, road to Dnipro, Kremenchuk would be open. Then comes Krivoy Rog. Then, of course, the road to Nikolayev would be open, from north, and from east. And, from Crimea. From Kramatorsk all the way to Nikolayev, it is just steppes, hard to defend.

Once, Coledar, Bakhmyt, Slavyansk and Kramatorsk are taken, Ukie army would've nothing to do other than retreat. That's why all that talk about Ukie million army counteroffensive on Kherson. Which was just talk, anyway.

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 18:18 utc | 39

It was claimed at the time that the Westinghouse substitute was outside specification in that it had a different composition and a different cross section. If that's true then it was unsuitable in the first place.

Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 9 2022 15:53 utc

Yes, but they did it anyway. Stupid is as stupid does.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 18:23 utc | 40

Right now, the guy with one leg in the grave speaks about ratification of Sweden and Finland...

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 18:24 utc | 41

The old joker signed a piece of paper, US ratification of Sweden and Finland. Anyway, what would Finland lose by even thinking of joining NATO? And, Sweden? Russia (USSR) was a signatory for post WW2 European borders. And, those border agreements are not written forever. Some are not even ratified.

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 18:32 utc | 42

Based on the geolocated distance from the storage areas (big explosions in the videos) to the tarmac/hangars, I was skeptical that the airbase strikes took out any jets.

But, videos starting to trickle out showing destroyed aircraft. We'll see what the final tally is I guess next time the satellites make a pass.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1557077182110998528

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 18:57 utc | 43

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 18:57 utc | 43
--
Good luck!
Lusia awaits too...

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 18:59 utc | 44

@rk (20) "and so on with zero response you can assume they'll again do nothing."

Comments like this from you never fail to make me laugh. They suggest that 24/7 shelling and multiple precision missile strikes by Russia amount to nothing. Really funny stuff. Maybe you could collect them all in a book of humorous sayings.

Posted by: Rob | Aug 9 2022 19:07 utc | 45

Rus. MoD first statement no one injured.... later locals day one dead five injured.....embaressing ...just like the Moskva reporting.

Posted by: Jo | Aug 9 2022 19:31 utc | 46

Posted by: Jo | Aug 9 2022 19:31 utc | 46
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Where did you read/find the "first" MOD statement? On telegram channels, or on the official site?

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 19:35 utc | 47

Rus. MoD first statement no one injured.... later locals day one dead five injured.....embaressing ...just like the Moskva reporting.

Posted by: Jo | Aug 9 2022 19:31 utc | 46

If these pinpricks were having any effect on the outcome of the conflict - e.g. forcing Russia to withdraw from occupied territories, then it would be embarrassing.

As it is these are just annoyances that can be ignored as they in no way require Russia to change course. Yes they could wipe Kiev from the face of the earth tomorrow in retribution but they have no need to.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Aug 9 2022 19:36 utc | 48

No need to hit civilian targets of course, but hitting every military centre with NATO goons all across Ukraine would be a nice start. Going thermobaric on their behind when their barracks aren't located near densely inhabited places would be great. Russia should going on a bombing spree that spares strictly Ukrainian military targets and fully wipe out the ones with foreign interlopers - such hits could never be fully covered by Western countries and media, it would trickle out that "their" guys got shot. And let's get real, every single person working for NATO deserves to be hanged either for a US occupier or a traitor to his country, so no true loss there.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 9 2022 19:41 utc | 49

The Finland parliament - https://www.eduskunta.fi cannot be assessed. The Russian crackers NoName057 had attacked it.

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 19:43 utc | 50

Hate to say it, but the Russian Navy (at least the leadership in the Black Sea area) comes across as a bit less than competent. Be it missile, black ops, or a ammo handling accident, clearly there wasn't enough protection to avoid or minimise the risk of this happening...

Posted by: Simplicius | Aug 9 2022 19:56 utc | 51

Clueless Joe | Aug 9 2022 19:41 utc | 49

Could it be that Russia themselves fear military escalation? Everyone seems to talk about Russias nuclear threat but could some targeted strikes against the railroads that bring the weapons in from Poland etc. - something that many people are surprised hasn’t occurred already - bring with it the potential for NATO/US to to make the ‘first strike’?

Posted by: Night Tripper | Aug 9 2022 20:02 utc | 52

Russia should have attacked decision centers on day one. Stupid russians!

Posted by: Michael Dubin | Aug 9 2022 20:16 utc | 53

Robert Barnes on the Duran show going on now, just pointed out something awesome:

Jared Leto, who was playing the brother of Nicholas Cage as "Lord of War" - drew a map of Ukraine using cocaine.

That's the present leader of Ukraine...

Lord of War cocaine scene

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 9 2022 20:19 utc | 54

Why would the Russian reaction to what happened in Crimea be any different than when Ukraine has bombed Russian territory in the past in the Belgorod area? Russian officials talk about hitting "decision making centers" but they haven't ever really followed through with that threat.

Posted by: Apotheoun | Aug 9 2022 17:04 utc | 28

On 25 March 2022, Russian forces launched an airstrike against a Ukrainian Air Force National Military Command Centre located in Vinnytsia, Ukraine. The airstrike consisted of six cruise Kinzhal hypersonic air-based missiles, which caused significant destruction to the infrastructure.

Does this count as a "decision making center?"


Posted by: Guernica | Aug 9 2022 20:25 utc | 55

Decision making centres?
Oh, sure! Everyone is tired that Zelly is still alive. Zaluzhny too. Maybe Russia should've taken them off? Maybe Stoltenberg too, and what about the demented Joe?

Posted by: rp | Aug 9 2022 20:32 utc | 56

But, videos starting to trickle out showing destroyed aircraft. We'll see what the final tally is I guess next time the satellites make a pass.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1557077182110998528

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 18:57 utc | 43


The only destroyed jet (the one in the loop) has no information, date and time, or location. I am sure propaganda photos like that will come trickling in as soon as Ukie's can copy and paste them from old photos of their own downed planes.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 9 2022 20:43 utc | 57

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 9 2022 18:57 utc | 43

Wait, you think that Russian soldiers at the site of the explosion go about filming stuff with their smartphones and send it to twitter or the like?

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Aug 9 2022 21:05 utc | 58

A few items from the Telegram of Medvedev and Lavrov:

Lavrov repeats these infantile words:

"Estonian Prime Minister Kaya Kallas: Stop issuing tourist visas to Russians. Visiting Europe is a privilege, not a human right. Air traffic with Russia is closed. This means that while the Schengen countries issue visas, the burden falls on Russia's neighboring countries (Finland, Estonia, Latvia are the only points of entry). It's time to end tourism from Russia."

Then he provides Medvedev's retort:

"After the Ukrainian carpet, another Nazi crap about Russian citizens was issued by an Estonian aunt: 'Visiting Europe is a privilege, not a human right.' So I want to remind her of other words: 'The fact that you are free is not your merit, but our flaw.'"

Ouch! Estonia has experienced a demographic and economic crisis since it declared independence and began persecuting ethnic Russians, having lost @20% of its population.

Lavrov also noted this anniversary:

"On August 9, 1999, Russian President Boris Yeltsin made a televised address in which he announced the appointment of FSB Director Vladimir Putin as acting Prime Minister of the Russian Federation.

"In the same address, Yeltsin named Vladimir Putin as his successor."

Also, "80 years ago in besieged Leningrad, the premiere of the Seventh Symphony by Dmitri Shostakovich took place." And that was an amazing feat. Here're Putin's words to today's concert audience:

I am glad to welcome the participants and guests, all spectators and listeners of today's concert. Its program includes the Seventh, Leningrad Symphony by Dmitri Shostakovich, one of the peaks of world culture, unique in content and expressiveness, legendary in the history of its creation, the greatest influence that it has on the feelings, hopes and destinies of people.

Exactly 80 years ago – on August 9, 1942 – the most important premiere of this brilliant work took place. By that time, it had already been heard both in the Soviet Union and abroad, but all this could not be compared with the scale and significance of the performance in besieged Leningrad.

The premiere date was set for the day when the Nazis were going to celebrate the conquest of the city, but their plans to break the Leningrad residents were initially doomed to failure. And as a hymn to the courage and perseverance of Leningrad, grandiose music sounded here. It glorified the feat of people, that stronghold of the people's spirit, which was the most powerful weapon of the Great Patriotic War.

The live broadcast of the concert shocked the world. Eleven of the first, most difficult months of the blockade were behind us. But people found the strength to give a big, real concert, to perform a new symphony.

Her musical themes poignantly told about the most difficult trials, about pain, about the great sorrow. But the main thing in them was a truly prophetic affirmation of victory, and this strengthened the faith of the people of Leningrad, the entire Soviet people, all those who fought Nazism, in the triumph of humanism and justice.

Today, many decades later, Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony continues to evoke the strongest feelings in new generations. They contain the bitterness of losses and the joy of victory, love for the Motherland and readiness to defend it.

And this is a testament to real, great art, where works that glorify true, eternal values, unite people of all ages, nationalities and religions, affirm truth and light, which always prevail over lies, over the forces of darkness, become great for all time.

We should all hope Putin's words are correct, that Truth and Light will always prevail over lies and its allied forces of darkness.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2022 21:15 utc | 59

@c1ue | Aug 9 2022 20:19 utc | 54

Jared Leto, who was playing the brother of Nicholas Cage as "Lord of War" - drew a map of Ukraine using cocaine.

That's the present leader of Ukraine...

Lord of War cocaine scene


Interesting, reality emulates fiction! I bet the actor in Kiev knows that scene. In his world fiction is the reality he knows and he only exists to emulate it.

Might as well adjust the lyrics

If you want to hang out
You've got to take her out
Ukraine
If you want to get down
Down on the ground
Ukraine

... etc

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 9 2022 21:19 utc | 60

Look, the issue with these "decision making centers" or what some people think they are, is that they aren't really important to begin with. The eastern half of Ukraine (parts not under control of Russia) is in complete anarchy of rogue nazis chasing civilians and forcing them to draft. The clown show in Kiev have really no influence, they just play a show for the audience in EU/USA.

The actually relevant decision making centers commanding units are actually targeted and many times hit.

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 9 2022 21:19 utc | 61

To actually hit "decision making centers", Russia would need to target Washington DC. Or rather the headquarters of the US corporations and the offices of hawkish think tanks.

I understand why Russia first concentrates on the proxy. With the proxy being beaten (I think by necessity that means occupying a large part of what today we still know as the Ukraine), I do not see an and to the war. But that is the task at hand for Russia at the moment.

Starting a WW III now would be totally counter-productive.

Posted by: Ronald | Aug 9 2022 22:00 utc | 62

thank you, karlof1@59. thank you, i've a library of russians (matsuev mostly) playing rocky & o/c shostakovich. Uvic's resident quartet plays shostakovich, bt o/c no one plays rocky or shostakovich like the russians. it's an important day.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Aug 9 2022 22:11 utc | 63

Today, many decades later, Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony continues to evoke the strongest feelings in new generations. They contain the bitterness of losses and the joy of victory, love for the Motherland and readiness to defend it.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2022 21:15 utc | 59
Very impressive: Can it be said that it isn’t just the politics, the leaders, or the culture of a nation that is most important (though these things are very important), it is the character of a nations people that most is most important above all other things, the other things will come gratis if the nation's people have a solid character and a strong will: Dmitri Dmitriyevich Shostakovich was proof of that. Joseph Stalin didn't win the war against Nazism, the people did.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 9 2022 22:45 utc | 64

As for Shostakovich and the Leningrad symphony, there is a really good book on that subject, that gives a lively picture of live in Leningrad during the siege, the person of Dmitri Shostakovich, and the role of the symphony in lifting the spirits of the Leningraders and people in the USSR in general: "Symphony for the city of the dead" by M.T. Anderson.

Posted by: Ronald | Aug 9 2022 22:53 utc | 65

Thanks for the replies.

Guernica @65--

Yes, the character of a nation's people is very important, that's why only in Russia would there arise a celebration of the Immortal Battalion that acts as a reinforcer of that character. Russians are now displaying what they can do when they're properly led, and that feeling infects and affects citizens to rise and perform the duties of citizens, unlike what we see in the West generally and within the Outlaw US Empire specifically. In the Empire, no one aspires to political leadership from a feeling of duty. In Russia, it's the exact opposite--people want to lead to demonstrate their patriotism and love for their fellows, to do their nation proud. That doesn't exist within the Empire. I recall John Dos Passos words from his trilogy U.S.A. describing all Americans being "on the make" looking to feather their own nest instead of working together to feather everyone's, attitudes that were rife prior to the Great Depression which changed some but hardened others. Billie Holiday's 1939 God Bless the Child captured that individual attitude in a way few have been able to express since. Her life story, all its dirt and horror, is one everyone ought to know. Just like the Leningrad orchestra's life and its tale of heroism and tragedy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2022 23:58 utc | 66

Tim #25

your response to rk #20

The Ukrainians say that they have lost 200,000 soldiers, along with most of their airforce, navy and thousands of tanks and weapons. So it is lucky that Russia has made zero response or Ukraine might be in real trouble.

Well said plus I might add that there is an inexorable advance from east to west and a predictable crushing of 'fortified trenches' designed and paid for by NATO over the past eight years. Plus the nazi magnet keeps sucking them in to the grinder. At this rate there won't be one jihadi left in Idlib.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2022 0:00 utc | 67

unimperator #62


The actually relevant decision making centers commanding units are actually targeted and many times hit.

EXACTLY. Frontlines and regional activities are directed from nearby and the allies seem fairly effective at locating and destroying those command centres. Plus, the advancing army has the advantage of capturing opponent soldiers and sometimes getting immediate information as to the location of those command centres. Then there is signals intelligence and local informants. Kiev is not a battle control centre yet but could become one after the winter.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2022 0:24 utc | 68

Norwegian #61

If you want to hang out
You've got to take her out
Ukraine
If you want to get down
Down on the ground
Ukraine

... etc

Don't forget this fact:
You can't get it back
Ukraine...

Posted by: tspoon | Aug 10 2022 0:27 utc | 69

re: Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 16:09 utc | 22

you wrote: ". . . nuclear power as it is currently being run is not as safe or cost effective as it could/should be. But to abandon the entire industry is like blaming a car for breaking down when you won't change the oil/filter because it costs "too much".

The nuclear industry has always avoided the issue of what might happen to nuclear power plants during wartime, but the situation in Ukraine now clearly shows that they are likely to become targets, subject to destruction.

Nuclear power plants and their spent fuel pools (where used uranium fuel rods are stored on-site) all contain some of the highest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet. Spent fuel pools typically contain 3 to 5 times more long-lived radioisotopes than does the reactor.

Robert Alvarez has calculated that approximately 40 percent of the radioactivity in US spent fuel comes from cesium-137. Cesium is the second most volatile element after mercury; cesium becomes a liquid at 82 degrees F and when fuel rods heat to the point of rupture or ignition, most of the cesium in the rods has already become a gas. Thus any accident at a nuclear reactor that causes the fuel rods to rupture, melt or burn will cause the release of very large amounts of highly-radioactive cesium gas. This is why the radiation contamination maps of Chernobyl and Fukushima focus on the levels of cesium-137 in the soils.

The destruction of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in 1986 is believed to have released about 2 million Curies of cesium-137 (about forty to fifty times less than is now found in a typical US spent fuel pool; Chernobyl did not have a spent fuel pool). The Chernobyl reactor burned for about two weeks, and the radioactive smoke and gases from the fire spread throughout the Northern Hemisphere.

The animation in this link shows the spread of cesium-137 from Chernobyl (the animation was created by the French nuclear agency, the IRSN, although they have since removed it from their website).

Radioactive fallout from the disaster created a 1090 square mile uninhabitable radioactive “exclusion zone” surrounding the destroyed reactor, from which almost 200,000 people were permanently evacuated. About 6000 square miles of land contaminated by the disaster was classified as a strict-radiation dose control zone, where food cannot be grown. Go to this link to see a 1996 map created by the CIA, which illustrates the radiation control zones and the radiation exclusion zone (uninhabitable).

Notice that the key to this Chernobyl map uses the amount of cesium-137 per square kilometer as the basis for grading the degrees of contamination of the exclusion zone. The units used in the key are Curies of cesium-137 (1 Curie = 37 billion atomic disintegrations per second). The radiation closed zone, or permanent (uninhabitable) exclusion zone, has levels of cesium-137 equal or greater than 40 Curies per square kilometer.

There are 88 Curies per gram of cesium-137. In other words, less than one-half of one gram of cesium-137, made into an aerosol and evenly spread over one square kilometer, will make that square kilometer into an uninhabitable exclusion zone. That would be 1.2 grams per square mile; a US dime weighs 2.7 grams.

In 2011, Alvarez et al calculated that 4.5 billion curies of radioactive cesium-137 resides in US spent reactor fuel, which is roughly 170 times more than what was released by all worldwide atmospheric nuclear weapons tests. Many US spent fuel pools each contain 3 to 4 times more cesium-137 that was released by worldwide nuclear weapons tests. Alvarez has estimated that an average US spent fuel pool contains about 1000 pounds of cesium-137.

A 1997 study done for the NRC estimated the median consequences of a spent fuel fire at a US pressurized water reactor (PWR) that released 8 to 80 million Curies of cesium-137. The consequences included: 54,000–143,000 extra cancer deaths, 2000–7000 square kilometers (770-2700 square miles) of agricultural land condemned, and economic costs due to evacuation of $117 to $566 billion

All this makes commercial nuclear power plants targets for terrorists, as well as possible targets in wartime. We only have to look at Ukraine today to see this is true. If they are destroyed in war, they become gigantic radiation dispersion devices.

This is why nuclear power plants were always a very bad idea.

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 0:33 utc | 70

I'm not as smart as you guys, so I'm sure you'll tell me why Russia is wrong to stand pat for a while. To me, it makes sense - rotate your troops, repair equipment, replenish supplies behind the lines that you can defend - while you continue to pick off Ukraine forces as they reveal themselves.

In the meantime, the looming energy crisis of the winter of European discontent grows ever closer. And the enraged citizens of France and Germany and Holland are not going to silently freeze to death for a front line that hasn't changed much since June. Zelensky's support in the international arena will slip; Ukrainian land will be ceded in return for opening up Nordstream 2.

So, why hurry? This is a good chance to count your enemies' guns, develop counter-strategies for weapons like HIMARS, and solidify your rear. Meanwhile, if history has a sense of humour, the Winter of 2022 will be as bad as the one Napoleon encountered when he entered Russia in 1812, or as Hitler did when he invaded in 1941. Only this time, rather than taking its toll on invading forces, it will be the EU's internal domestic demand for Russian energy that Winter brings that will end the shooting phase of this war for a while.

Posted by: FrankDrakman | Aug 10 2022 0:45 utc | 71

Old canadian | Aug 9 2022 14:45 utc | 10

South Ukraine was one of the nuclear sites Russia was heading for early in the SMO.

When I looked at pro Ukraine maps of that first week or so, it became clear Russia was trying to seize as many bio and Nuke sites as possible. Pro Russia maps showed broad swaths of red whereas pro Ukraine maps showed lines of advance. Russia came very close to South Ukraine NPP on March 7

https://vk.com/@739151204-smo-securing-ukrainianus-biological-and-nuclear-sites

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 0:49 utc | 72

FrankDrakman | Aug 10 2022 0:45 utc | 72

The Brit establishment is I think the main driving force behind the war on Russia and keeping Ukraine fighting to the last Ukrainian. They will go belly up soon and it seems in a worse way than Europe.

Crook quoted a section of a Daily Telegraph article. He terms the Daily Telegraph as being linked to deep state. I have retrieved it from behind a paywall and reposted here
https://vk.com/@739151204-telegraph-summer-before-the-storm

That article comes out after UK saying in June that no banks are two big to fail.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 1:00 utc | 73

Radioactive fallout from the disaster created a 1090 square mile uninhabitable radioactive “exclusion zone” surrounding the destroyed reactor, from which almost 200,000 people were permanently evacuated. About 6000 square miles of land contaminated by the disaster was classified as a strict-radiation dose control zone, where food cannot be grown.
Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 0:33 utc | 71

It is now a thriving wildlife zone.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 1:10 utc | 74

@ Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 1:00 utc | 74

thanks for sharing that.. sounds like alastair crooke is based in the uk...

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2022 1:26 utc | 75

List of accidents and incidents involving transport or storage of ammunition
They seem to be frequent in times of war

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 10 2022 1:27 utc | 76

James
surprised you don't know Alastair Crooke
here is a start
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Crooke
if i get started, i won't be able to stop
read everything he ever wrote
you will learn a lot
cheers

Posted by: downtownhaiku | Aug 10 2022 1:35 utc | 77

@ downtownhaiku | Aug 10 2022 1:35 utc | 78

thank you! i didn't know all that about him.. i have enjoyed reading him, but didn't know anything of his background.. fascinating.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2022 1:38 utc | 78

re: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 1:10 utc | 75

you write, in regard to the Chernobyl exclusion zone: "It is now a thriving wildlife zone."

Yes, there has been a big effort to downplay the contamination in the exclusion zone. Large animals, such as wolves and deer, which are typically hunted by humans, tend to go to places where humans do not frequent, and their presence in the exclusion zone has been used to "prove" that things are just fine there (but this has not changed the ban on human habitation in the zone).

However, you should look at some of the work done by Dr. Timothy Mousseau of the University of South Carolina. Tim has been doing comprehensive research in the Chernobyl exclusion zone since 2000 and in Belarus since 2005 (he also has been doing studies in the Fukushima contaminated zones since 2011). See his website, the University of South Carolina Chernobyl Research Initiative and Fukushima Research Initiative, which contains a large number of studies. I will copy below a summary of some of his research (it is posted on the home page of the site):

Highlights from research published by the Chernobyl Research Initiative include the following:

•Population sizes and numbers of species (i.e. biodiversity) of birds, mammals, insects, and spiders are significantly lower in areas of high contamination in Chernobyl.

•For many birds and small mammals, life spans are shorter and fertility is depressed, in areas of high contamination.

•In Fukushima, only birds, butterflies, and cicadas showed significant declines during the first summer following the accident. Other groups were not negatively affected. Now, five years later, effects on birds have increased.

•There is considerable variability among species in their sensitivity to radionuclides. Many species are not affected, and a few species even appear to increase in numbers in areas of high contamination in both Chernobyl and Fukushima, presumably in response to competitive release (i.e. more available food and shelter) and fewer predators.

•Many species show evidence of genetic damage stemming from acute exposures and the differences observed between Fukushima and Chernobyl suggests some species may show the consequences of mutation accumulation over multiple generations.

•Some individuals and species show no evidence of genetic damage in relation to radiation exposure and some even show evidence of evolutionary adaptation to the effects of radiation through increased antioxidant activity, which may provide protection against ionizing radiation.

•The bird species that are most likely to show declines in numbers in response to radiation are those that historically have shown increased mutation rates for other reasons possibly related to DNA repair ability or reduced defenses against oxidative stress.

•Deleterious effects of radiation exposure seen in natural populations in Chernobyl include increased rates of cataracts, tumors, growth abnormalities, deformed sperm, and albinism.

•Neurological development is impacted as evidenced by depressed brain size in both birds and rodents and consequent effects on cognitive ability and survival have been demonstrated in birds.

•Tree growth and microbial decomposition in the soil are also depressed in areas of high radiation.

•In Fukushima, the first signs of developmental abnormalities have been observed in birds in 2013, although significant genetic damage has not yet been documented for birds or rodents.

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 1:53 utc | 79

The RMoD statement concerned military personnel. The dead and wounded in Crimea are civilians. The facts aren’t mutually exclusive but the telling can make them seem so. There was significant civilian damage to cars and nearby apartments (cars burned and apartment windows blown out). A handling accident is absolutely believable. Moving large quantities of things that make explosions quickly is a dangerous business. Even with all sorts of safety protocols in place, the statistical odds of something bad happening over time are significant.

The slow pace is simply a matter of war being hell and difficult with Russia prioritizing minimizing casualties. If there is nothing to force them to hurry, why would they? Others have commented on “decisions centers” being a warning not so much to politicians but military leaders; although, in the event of a significant strike in Russia (including crimea) or similar we can assume the target pool would widen. It is not a war in the legal sense so the legalistic Putin is not going to try killing the leader of Ukraine with a missile. That just makes him a missile target.

I’m not saying everything is great, easy or going exactly according to Russian plan. I’m saying it’s not far enough off plan to demand changing that plan.

Posted by: Lex | Aug 10 2022 2:21 utc | 80

james | Aug 10 2022 1:26 utc | 76

I believe he is an ex Uk diplomat living elsewhere now which is why he can keep posting at SCF.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 2:38 utc | 81

downtownhaiku | Aug 10 2022 1:35 utc | 78

Thanks. I hadn't read your comment before replying to james.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 2:42 utc | 82

Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 1:53 utc | 80

I have read a number of articles on the Chernobyl wildlife. They are not simply taking refuge there and dying early deaths. The wildlife is breeding and thriving and living there. They eat the produce of that land and drink the water of that land.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 2:50 utc | 83

I ended up going to my actual office today. The news feed there on their browser is MSN, imagine that. Anyway, MSN constantly runs stories that the Ukies are doing good-to-great, and Russians are in a bind-even this far into this blood letting Sort of reminds me part of a Chris Rock sketch from the early 1990s talking about Jesse Jackson's presidential bid in 1988, "You can win Jesse, you can win!"

A double today from a "Forbes" writer:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-ukrainians-are-hitting-the-russians-where-they-aren-t/ar-AA10r24j?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=3f945af33efa4cf0cb95eb03625613e3

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-93rd-mechanized-brigade-just-liberated-a-village-from-the-russians/ar-AA10tlA9?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d4e10fcbc4cf45189e4d013c119f3ad8

P.S. In the second story, it mentions a battle that supposedly this UAF brigade fought "50 miles north of Kharkov" Isn't that, going directly north, a good 20 miles into Russia itself...? I think the author probably meant 50 miles northwest of that city but these guys are so sloppy and clueless, he probably didn't realize the goof he made. Such shit...

Posted by: DakotaRog | Aug 10 2022 2:51 utc | 84

I see that Pete Dolack at Systemic Disorder has written a neat analysis of both sides in the current 'special military operation'. We have no cheering interests when two oligarchic right-wing governments fight.
Although I may not agree with all conclusions Dolack draws he does give an accurate analysis of the two administrations (Russia & Ukraine) along with their fascistic influences.
Leaving aside the immorality of cheering for the slaughter of fellow humans I understand that many support Russia's position as they see a win for Russia as being a shortcut to dismantling amerikan imperialism, but surely it is their job too to fight amerikan imperialism too, rather than leave it to a repressive & capitalistic Russia, simply because if the Russia point of view wins out it will obliterate amerikan imperialism but not imperialism altogether, all that will happen is a different brand of imperialism.

I'm reluctant to say more because if/when such arguments are raised here the usual plethora of western trolls & bots attempt to reduce the discussion to ukraine good /russia bad in contest with those attempting to argue ukraine bad russia good, when the truth is that the whole bunch are arseholes if nott quite yet the sadistically corrupt arseholes that amerika is.

If you read the article in its entirety, a big ask for humans conditioned to reduce the world to 30 words or less, not only has the current administration of Russia, the United Russia party dropped precipitously in popularity with citizens and had to gerrymander like fuck, it is highly likely that had the United Russia administration not pulled an electronic voting shonky the Communist Party aka Communist Party of the Russian Federation (KPRF Russian Kommunisticheskaya Partiya Rossiiskoi Federatsii) would currently hold the most seats in Russia's Duma (parliament).

In fact that is a likely reason why the decision to invade Ukraine was taken, the KPRF had long been advocating that Russia was on the verge, it was necessary to force this issue, too many Russians know what happened in WW2 so in an attempt to win back votes the current V Putin led gang of oligarchs decided that they needed to go to war to retain credibility.

Recognising Russia is entitled to defend itself is not the same as cheering for the destruction of Ukrainians whose point of view is close to that of Russians. As many of us have seen in our own nations, evil defeating evil in the name of good does not result in good, it usually ends in greater evil. Remember that Ukrainians voted for the zelensky creep because his platform was friendship with Russia & enforcement of the Minsk Accords. The fact he did the opposite just tells us that they like every other human who participates in the farce that elections have become, is a bit of a credulous mug. This is something many of us have been guilty of at one time or another, hardly worthy of death or maiming is it?

This is where true socialists who value the lives of all humans regardless of what some mob of thugs assert about those people, should tread carefully.
Like just about every other war, whichever side wins, whatever side loses, the only real winners will be elites who couldn't give a flying fuck about ordinary humans.

The reason this piece is valuable is that within, it gives a concise account of Vladimir Putin, his rise to power, allegiance to amerikan puppet B. Yeltsin and the oligarchs created by both Yeltsin & Putin's 'United Russia' administration eg:

"The Russian economy collapsed so steeply that Yeltsin could only “win” re-election in 1996 through massive cheating, and handing the biggest prizes, giant natural resources enterprises that had not yet been privatized, to the seven biggest oligarchs for almost nothing in exchange for their financial and media support. The result of the first years of capitalism was that the Russian economy contracted by an astonishing 45 percent by 1998 as poverty and crime rates skyrocketed. Yeltsin appointed Vladimir Putin as his last prime minister, then appointed him his successor as president in exchange for a blanket pardon for him and his family. Rising prices of oil and gas helped the Russian economy strengthen during Putin’s first set of terms as president. Nonetheless, he cut taxes for the rich while reducing benefits for pensioners. Corruption became so rampant that, in Putin’s first years as president, the amount of money spent on bribes exceeded the amount of revenue paid to the Russian government."

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 10 2022 3:02 utc | 85

re: : Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 2:50 utc | 84

did you read what I posted? There is a lot of variation in the responses of wildlife:

•There is considerable variability among species in their sensitivity to radionuclides. Many species are not affected, and a few species even appear to increase in numbers in areas of high contamination in both Chernobyl and Fukushima, presumably in response to competitive release (i.e. more available food and shelter) and fewer predators.

•Some individuals and species show no evidence of genetic damage in relation to radiation exposure and some even show evidence of evolutionary adaptation to the effects of radiation through increased antioxidant activity, which may provide protection against ionizing radiation.

The exclusion zone applies to humans for good reasons. In regard to cesium, it is water soluble, and quickly makes its way into soils and waters. Cesium-137 doesn't simply disappear from ecosystems (it doesn't simply migrate to lower depths in the soils) because it is recycled in the soils by its uptake in plants, which do not differentiate between it and potassium. Cesium-137 bioconcentrates in all foodstuffs rich in potassium (berries, mushrooms, etc) and it progressively bioaccumulates as it moves up the food chains, becoming more concentrated in dairy products and meats.

Once ingested, absorbed, or inhaled, cesium-137 has a 110-day biological half-life in the human body, meaning in 110 days, half of the cesium-137 will leave the body. People living in contaminated regions, who rely on the food they grow or raise, will ingest cesium-137 on a daily basis and thus are constantly exposed to so-called "low dose" radiation. Children and infants are much more susceptible to chronic exposure to ionizing radiation than are adults; females are especially susceptible. (see my presentation at the New York Academy of Medicine, posted at the end of this email).

The documentary Nuclear Controversies provides a non-nuclear industry look at the consequences of Chernobyl.

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 3:23 utc | 86

Sorry, I meant to include the link to my talk at the New York Academy of Medicine, see The Implications of The Massive Contamination of Japan With Radioactive Cesium

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 3:26 utc | 87

Steven Starr #80

On Fukushima and the criminality of the Japan government and nuclear industry.

The report of the research on land life forms is depressing enough.

Consider the crime of dumping all that high level radioactive waste water in the Pacific Ocean.

GE built those reactors and installed the standby power generators at ground level in a Tsunami zone!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2022 3:28 utc | 88

DakotaRog | Aug 10 2022 2:51 utc | 85
The trope: War is how U$A learns geography.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 10 2022 3:46 utc | 89

Steven Starr | Aug 10 2022 3:26 utc | 88

Bears and boar as omnivores are about the same level in the food chain as humans. Any studies done on them? I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say its the perfect environment for humans though banning nuclear is I feel the wrong way to go. Russian federation has continued nuclear and advanced the technology.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-o-s/russia-nuclear-power.aspx
Rosatom's current long-term strategy up to 2050 involves moving to inherently safe nuclear plants using fast reactors with a closed fuel cycle, especially under the Proryv ('Breakthrough') project. It envisages nuclear providing 45-50% of electricity at that time, with the share rising to 70-80% by the end of the century. The ultimate aim of the closed fuel cycle is to eliminate the production of radioactive waste from power generation. Early in 2017 the CEO of Rosatom said: "We took a punt on the Breakthrough project, on fast reactor technologies, and today we are leading in this field. It's necessary to make this leadership absolute and to deprive our competitors of their hopes of overcoming the gap in the technological race."

As uncle tungsten commented about Fukushima "GE built those reactors and installed the standby power generators at ground level in a Tsunami zone!"

Cheap energy is a big part the difference between a poor country with correspondingly poor health services and a prosperous country that can afford good health services. Europe is now not too far off being a case in point. I think nuclear will make up a good part of the future energy mix.
The average life expectancy of Russians dropped sharply with the poverty of the 90's.

Germany in particular but all of Europe with their hatred of Russia driving energy prices to unavoidable levels - unless they change that very quickly expect to see life expectancy drop sharply as they fall into poverty.

Two sides of the coin - though on one side of the coin, nuclear technology will become increasingly safer and very little or no radioactive waste. In fact it may not be that long before new technology can use current waste as fuel.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 4:21 utc | 90

Russia installs air defense systems at Zaporiyia nuclear power plant
"The air defense systems of the nuclear power plant are being reinforced," explained the head of the military administration appointed by Moscow in the region, Yevhen Balitsky, in declarations to Russian state television.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 10 2022 4:25 utc | 91

Peter AU1 #91

I have read that thorium is the safest direction but it fails to yield weapons grade anything so the dark side shun the prospect.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2022 4:37 utc | 92

Melaleuca #90

The trope: War is how U$A learns geography.

The problem being that all the lead in drinking water throughout the USA results in very short term memory and poor comprehension. Ad to that all the C8, the exotic amines from industry, the abject fail of the EPA to protect anything let alone prosecute. The outcome is a failed state with a deliberately disabled class of people as a tax base and limited capacity to organise let alone tackle the corrupt election system.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2022 4:54 utc | 93

uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2022 4:37 utc | 93

China prepares to test a thorium rector
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02459-w

Everything in proportion I guess. The huge amount of people killed and injured every day in motor accidents vs those from nuclear power generation accidents?

Now US/UK shelling the NPP in Ukraine. US with its wars and terrorism and preemptive strike doctrine is a bigger threat to health and safety than NPP's I think. US needs decommissioning.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 10 2022 5:04 utc | 94

Intel slava reports...

Russia has requested a UN Security Council meeting on August 11th because of the AFU strikes on the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant. After the latest attack, there was a fire at the plant.

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 10 2022 5:10 utc | 95

you know i was thinking of what a facade the sanctions game on russia is.... most of the west europe, canada and etc have gone completely bonkers following usa orders and implementing this sanction regime on russia.. it has nothing to do with the war in ukraine - or everything depending on how you look at it.) the west under usa-uk leadership is out to get russia one way or the other and are relentless in this.... what amazes me is how many people can't see this and think it is because of russias invasion into ukraine - not knowing much of anything about the history here... i wonder if any of these folks will wake up? it is doubtful given how convincing western propaganda is at this point... most people don't scratch the surface and just accept shit at face value.. bottom line - most people don't ask questions and accept authority willingly - in fact they need guidance on a regular basis.. western msm as glorified baby sitting agency..

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2022 5:10 utc | 96

is this a new part of the html code? or am i the only one seeing this? lolol..

Please keep your comment short and to the point.

Posted by: james | Aug 10 2022 5:11 utc | 97

@james 97…

If only there was a modern viable, efficient gas pipeline just lying idle, fully capable of transiting gas from Russia to Europe [cough NS2] while bypassing bullshit in Ukraine….. oh well…
My sense of schadenfreude is grotesquely misplaced, I know, but I am watching gleefully as energy prices in Europe Asia and even the US go parabolic….. of course, I am prescient enough to know Australia will join the parade of pain soon enough.

(From twitter @javierblass + retweets + replies).
> Latest calculation for the electricity and gas UK retail price cap is scary. Very, very scary. Consultant @CornwallInsight
puts the cap in October at £3,582 a year (up from £1,971 per year current).
From January, it jumps to £4,266 per year. UK government sleeping at the wheel.
> CHART OF THE DAY: While spot European gas prices remain just under €200 per MWh (the same as in late July) the price curve continues to re-price higher and higher, not just for the 2022-23 winter, but also for 2023-24 summer and winter (orange is today curve, green is July 29th).
> At Brioche Pasquier’s 240,000 square feet factory about an hour away from London, every roll that comes out of giant gas-fired ovens now costs at least 50% more to make
> Northwest Europe is forecast to begin a perilous winter with historically low amounts of diesel-type fuel, which powers vast swaths of the economy.
> EdF is suing the French government for €8.3 billion in "losses incurred" as it's forced to sell more power at below market prices (let's remember the state owns already 80% of the company and plans to control 100% by September).
>> note, the EdF claim is "estimated to date", so it doesn't cover the full year. It suggest the cost of the French gov price cap is going to be north of €15 billion for the whole year.
>>> €8.4 bn is what they estimated in January.
> French 1-year forward baseload electricity contract hits €550 per MWh (for context, the 2010-2020 average was ~€45 per MWh).

And this:
Jim Grace. @mac_puck. Sep 20, 2021
In 2015 the National Grid commissioned a study into potential effects of Brexit on Energy supply in the UK.
It was published in March 2016.
It formed the basis of their submission to the Energy and Climate Change Committee Inquiry: Leaving the EU: implications for UK energy policy.
What does it say about Brexit?
IT says if we leave the IEM we get a bunch of problems to do with decreased market coupling / trading / investment an higher costs / lower energy security.
But on the bright side, it says the risks [of running out of] gas are minimal... because the UK has excess storage capacity.
They wrote this in 2015.
Then in 2017 the Tory Government allowed their friends at Centrica to close down 70% of the UK's gas storage capacity... to save money and maximise shareholder returns.
WHY did HMG let this happen?
They MUST have known we were going to leave the IEM.
WHY aren't the BBC reporting this?
WHY are they bullshitting us about "wholesale energy prices"?
I smell something, and it is not a gas leak.

P.S.
Ah! Interestingly, the BBC *did* report on this National Grid study back in March 2016. https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35887477…
Their Byline:
Supporters of leaving the EU have said claims [...] bills could rise by as much as £1.5m a day are "absurd".

And their analysis:
"only likely if EU neighbours take decisions against their own best interests, like cutting off electricity interconnectors."
(Don't worry folks - vote Leave; what could possibly go wrong? Trust us, we are the Beeb).

H/T to @JohnWest_JAWS He has just pointed out that Parliament knew about the gas storage issues back in 2012.
The very best interpretation I can make of Centrica's decision to scrap 70% of UK strategic gas reserve in 2017 was they *knew* the IEM was about to introduce "solidarity".

And they *believed* we would stay in the IEM, like non-EU Norway.
Why would they believe this? Perhaps if they had been assured by the May govt.
And then the Johnson govt reneged despite the fact we and just shut 70% of our strategic reserve...
Why would they do something so reckless?
Pure theological objection to the IEM being under the authority of the CJEU is my guess.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 10 2022 5:31 utc | 98

james | Aug 10 2022 5:11 utc | 98
Please keep your comment short and to the point.
Been there for as long as I’ve been posting.
Observed mostly in the breach.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 10 2022 5:35 utc | 99

All this speak of nuclear power generation. No discussion could rightfully be complete without input discussing Gaylon Winsor. His exclusion would render all claims of either safety or danger inconclusive or purposefully deceptive.

Some believe the two cities in japan appeared identical to previous fire-bombings carried out by the US.

https://heiwaco.tripod.com/bomb.htm

Posted by: NJH | Aug 10 2022 6:05 utc | 100

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