Ukraine - Mines, Missiles, Warcrimes And A Warning To Zelenski
Russia continues its special military operation in Ukraine in a relatively slow manner.
Its military is tasked with the 'demilitarization' and 'denazification' of Ukraine. This task does not require large movements of the front line as the Ukrainian government continues to send fresh troops and nazis units towards the Russian lines. There the Russians reliably maul them without taking significant casualties on their own side.
The Ukrainian government and its military continue to commit war crimes.
Since a few days the Ukraine is firing missiles with thousands of anti-personal mines into Donetsk city and other population centers in the east. These are not powerful enough to kill but are designed to maim anyone who steps on them or tries to pick them up.
bigger
On July 29 two HIMARS missiles were fired onto a prison camp in Olenivka (also written Elenovka), some 30 kilometers south of Donetsk city. They hit the barracks that housed Azov nazi fighters who had been caught in Mariupol. Fifty of those died and some 70 were wounded in the missile attack. Ukraine denied that it had launched the missiles and accused the Russians of willfully killing the prisoners.
However Russia does not need to fire missiles or bomb barracks to kill prisoners it already holds. It can simply take them out of of their barracks and hang or shoot them. It also would not wound 70 people it now must additionally care for.
Via Politico U.S. officials are covering for the Ukraine:
American-made rocket launchers not used in Ukraine prison strike, U.S. assesses
The U.S. has assessed that Ukraine did not attack a prison in a Russian-occupied eastern region of Donetsk with American-made rocket launchers last week, directly contradicting Russian claims, according to two U.S. officials.
...
However, no traces of the U.S.-provided weapons were found at the site, according to two U.S. officials with knowledge of the assessment, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive topic.“We know Ukraine didn’t attack the site with HIMARS because the site doesn’t have the indications it would have if it was hit with HIMARS,” one of the officials said.
While one of the officials stopped short of saying Ukraine was not responsible for the strike, the other official said the evidence showed the attack was not conducted by Kyiv. Satellite photos of the site released by Maxar Technologies on July 30 appear to show damage only to the section of the detention center housing Ukrainian prisoners, with no collateral damage to surrounding buildings.
The warheads of the shorter range HIMARS missiles have 91 kilogram (200 pound) warheads. That is a relative little amount of explosives. HIMARS hits are precise and do not create wide ranging collateral damage. That is there whole point.
The claim that 'no traces of the U.S.-provided weapons were found at the site' is also definitely false. Several TV teams have visited the side and filmed the collected debris on the same day the incident had happened during the early morning hours. The diameter of these rocket motor parts fits to HIMARS missiles. Other filmed debris showed typical fragments of the HIMARS missile war head.
bigger
It was the Ukraine, and especially its dubious leaders, who had an interest in killing the Azov prisoners. These had started to talk with Russian interviewers and were revealing war crimes for which the leadership in Ukraine is directly responsible.
On July 28 the Russians published a video of an interview with Azov nazi soldier Dmytro Kozatsky, call sign Orest, who directly accused Zelenski advisor Arestovich of ordering the killing of Russian soldiers who had been taken prisoners.
Kozatsky was running the public relation side for his Azov unit. Even before the war started, Kozatsky says, Arestovich was preparing an information campaign with shock videos that were supposed to show the torture and killing of Russian soldiers taken prisoners. Kozatsky received such an order and passed it on. He later noted that such shock videos were indeed made and published on social media sides.
bigger
bigger
That witness statement is enough to put Arestovich into jail for a very long time. He responded by sending HIMARS missiles to kill the prisoners which were taking to the Russians and accusing him.
Publishing videos of the torturing and killing of Russian prisoners was supposed to deter Russian soldiers from further fighting in the war. This tactic was also used in the 1940s by the Ukrainian nazi collaborators of the OUN. It had the opposite effect of what it was supposed to do. The Russian were enraged about those films and photographs and fought even harder.
Today the Russian defense ministry accused Washington of being behind the missile attacks:
Russian Defence Ministry has recorded and is taking into account for the future an official admission by General Skibitsky, deputy head of the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine, that Washington directly coordinates each target for Kiev before strikes from US-made HIMARS MLRS.Speaking to The Telegraph's British journalists, Skibitsky admitted that "before rocket launches, there are consultations between intelligence officials from both countries, which allow Washington to stop any potential attacks if they were unhappy with the intended target".
All this undeniably proves that Washington, contrary to White House and Pentagon claims, is directly involved in the conflict in Ukraine.
It is Biden administration that is directly responsible for all Kiev-approved rocket attacks on residential areas and civilian infrastructure in populated areas of Donbas and other regions, which have resulted in mass deaths of civilians.
No one else in Ukraine or in the world should have any doubts that the strikes by HIMARS rockets on Novaya Kakhovka on July 12, on Stakhanov on July 17, on Krasniy Luch on July 24, dozens of strikes on Donetsk and, of course, the July 29 strike on the detention facility in Elenovka, which killed 50 and injured 73 Ukrainian POWs, were planned by Zelensky regime and approved by Washington.
Political, criminal and moral responsibility for the Elenovka massacre and other war crimes in Ukraine, along with Zelensky, lies directly with Biden administration.
The relevant Telegraph piece was published yesterday:
Britain helps Ukraine hunt for Russian spies eyeing Western military aid
Asked how the US-provided Himars multiple-launch rocket systems have so precisely targeted Russian fuel and ammunition depots, as well as battlefield headquarters in eastern Ukraine, Gen Skibitsky said “in this case in particular, we use real-time information”.US officials are not providing direct targeting information, which would potentially undermine their case for not being direct participants in the war, Gen Skibitsky said.
However, he suggested there was a level of consultation between intelligence officials of both countries prior to launching missiles that would allow Washington to stop any potential attacks if they were unhappy with the intended target.
Someone in the Biden administration told New York Time columnist Thomas Friedman to fire a warning shot against the Ukrainian president Zelenski.
He does so today in a column that warns about Pelosi's trip to Taiwan.
Why Pelosi’s Visit to Taiwan Is Utterly Reckless
Dear reader: The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.And there is funny business going on in Kyiv. On July 17, Zelensky fired his country’s prosecutor general and the leader of its domestic intelligence agency — the most significant shake-up in his government since the Russian invasion in February. It would be the equivalent of Biden firing Merrick Garland and Bill Burns on the same day. But I have still not seen any reporting that convincingly explains what that was all about. It is as if we don’t want to look too closely under the hood in Kyiv for fear of what corruption or antics we might see, when we have invested so much there. (More on the dangers of that another day.)
...
In short, this Ukraine war is SO not over, SO not stable, SO not without dangerous surprises that can pop out on any given day. Yet in the middle of all of this we are going to risk a conflict with China over Taiwan, provoked by an arbitrary and frivolous visit by the speaker of the House?It is Geopolitics 101 that you don’t court a two-front war with the other two superpowers at the same time.
As long as the U.S. keeps financing Zelenski he will continue to rule as he sees fit while also growing his already considerable nest egg.
Posted by b on August 2, 2022 at 14:53 UTC | Permalink
next page »So maybe like Canada detained a Chinese woman for supposed crimes against empire, maybe China will arrest Pelosi for a potential Russian trial for the war crimes committed in Ukraine.
After all, its not often you get watershed moments like this. Is empire going to use nukes to release Pelosi?
Humanity in the West needs a teaching moment and Pelosi on trial for war crimes would be an excellent choice for exposing the funding for Ukraine and other anti-Russia/China efforts.
Zelenski is looking over his shoulder at China knowing that he is small potatoes in comparison. He now knows his days are numbered as front page spreads about him and his cause will be overshadowed by bigger fish to focus on.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 2 2022 15:12 utc | 2
Interestingly, Deutsche Welle did a fact check on Russia using butterfly mines in March and found no evidence. I wonder if they're having a look this time on Ukraine?
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-russia-using-butterfly-mines-in-ukraine/a-61120270
Posted by: Peter F. Meier | Aug 2 2022 15:13 utc | 3
We appear to be seeing a series of feints by the Russians to force Ukraine to commit its remaining reserves to plug faltering positions - weeks ago the focus was on Siversk, then the Ukrainians retreated to prepared defenses on higher ground and rushed in some reinforcements to hold the line, and the focus of Russian efforts to advance has since shifted to Soledar and Artemovsk ("Bakhmut"), where there is now fighting right outside and according to some inside the city. The same pattern is repeating after Russian breakthroughs to the south near Avdiivka. There the Ukraine has apparently rushed in an elite unit - the so called guard of the president of Ukraine, allegedly earmarked for the supposed August offensive in Kherson - but this was several days ago and that has not blunted Russian initiative in that locale.
Posted by: Cesare | Aug 2 2022 15:14 utc | 4
Thank you for providing the Friedman column which lurks behind a pay wall for me. I do not read him as a matter of course but I wanted to see this one.
Posted by: Quid Me Vexare | Aug 2 2022 15:15 utc | 5
Also noted is an observable increase in the effectiveness of Ukrainian defense tactics and the unexplained improvement in their unit to unit battlefield communications during the two or three weeks prior to the Pelosi (who is obviously compromised and has repeatedly, and for long, been accused of having connections to the communist party in China) provocation. Stuff gets complicated pretty quick when people don't listen to reason.
About the « slow manner » of the SMO and some other issues concerning Ukraine.
On the Internet there is an article by French Brigadier General (retired) Antoine Martinez, Ukraine-Russia conflict: From fantasy to reality, from illusion to disillusionment. Most of what he says won't surprise barflies, but if your neighbours and friends (and mine) think you've been brainwashed in the Manchurian candidate way, you can ask them if General Martinez has been too.
The article recalls that « the operation launched on 24 February by the Russian president is not the starting point of this conflict but is a logical continuation of a war prepared by the United States. »
General Martinez recalls the comments made in December 2014 by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko against the inhabitants of the east of the country:
"We will have work and they will not. We will have pensions and they will not. We will have benefits for pensioners and children, they will not. Our children will go to school and day care, their children will stay in the cellars...And that's how, that's precisely how we will win this war!"
He asks the question whether the Russian operation was foreseeable or not, and relates the sacking of the head of the French military intelligence (Direction du Renseignement Militaire, DRM), who thought that the Russians would not attack.
According to General Martinez, the DRM was right in its own way because the Russian intervention was improvised:
« The military operation (...) was not, in fact, launched on 24 February by Vladimir Putin but on 16 February by the Ukrainian army, which began shelling the civilian population of the Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice. The massive increase in fire against the population of Donbass from that date onwards indicates to the Russians that a major offensive is imminent (...) This is, in fact, an organised provocation - which could, moreover, be qualified as a war crime (bombing of civilian populations) - intended to push Russia to the brink by intervening. In order to be convinced, but is it surprising, the American president, Joe Biden, announced on 17 February, with a Machiavellian assurance, that Russia would attack Ukraine in the next few days. He is obviously right, since the situation will evolve according to the written scenario. »
« (...) It is not a question of taking over Ukraine, nor of occupying or destroying it. This operation was launched as a matter of urgency on 24 February, eight days after the start of the massive bombardment of the civilian population of Donbass, which preceded the assault by Kiev's forces by a few days. This is why it has been called a special operation because it is not a classic high-intensity war against an intractable enemy but rather an operation to liberate a friendly population (Donbass) that has been martyred for eight years in the deafening silence of the Western leaders and media.
This is why Russia has decided to commit only 12% to 15% of its soldiers, without calling on its immense reserves and without declaring a partial, let alone general, mobilisation. The operation is, in fact, being conducted with a numerical inferiority of 1:2, whereas experts admit that the ratio of forces on the ground required in the offensive phase should be 3:1, or even 5:1 in urban areas.
In this context, the offensive towards Kiev could only aim at fixing the Ukrainian troops elsewhere than in the Donbass: "We must always bear in mind this principle of the balance of power. With 1:1 or 1:2, it is out of the question to engage in urban combat. »
General Martinez points out (rightly so IMO)« the immense responsibility of France and Germany in the present situation with their renunciation or their lack of will - and this for eight years - to follow and ensure the application of [the Minsk] agreements whereas they were the guarantors. »
(Machine translation via DeepL)
I let you discover the rest of the article (in French, use a translation software):
Posted by: Leuk | Aug 2 2022 15:22 utc | 7
The horror stories that are going to trickle out of Ukraine post-war are going to be rough, and they're probably going to receive muted coverage in the US/EU countries. The pro-war news outlets have been disciplined not to report on Ukrainian war crimes, but the archive of footage of Ukrainian forces committing atrocities, bragging about them, and so on, will remain online forever (no doubt aggrieved Russian nationalists, and the Russian state, will be archiving them, too).
What a shit show, and to think had the US not intervened it could have been over in a matter of a few months. An untold human toll on both sides, so the US can manufacture more military equipment and get rid of its own overproduced surplus.
Posted by: fnord | Aug 2 2022 15:25 utc | 8
Do any barflies believe a team can be trained to operate a HIMARS effectively within 2 weeks ?
It’s a reasonable supposition that US military are in-country and operating those weapons.
Posted by: Exile | Aug 2 2022 15:26 utc | 9
The aim of NATO (read USA), with Russian operation is in tatters, thus the desperation we are currently witnessing.
Posted by: Steve | Aug 2 2022 15:29 utc | 10
What is being observed is a frantic, last ditch effort to hold the line in Donetsk - the loss of that highly symbolically charged oblast, in military terms, will open Kharkiv and Ukrainian held Zaporizhia to invasion, and will be a possibly decisive political-psychological blow to the UAF and the Zelensky administration. Little effort is being made to preserve its forces in the region for new defensive lines to the west, and as a result in the last 72 hours there has been a whole new crop of videos of Ukrainian units protesting their leadership and refusing to fight. Enduring constant artillery barrages is highly demoralizing, as b has frequently pointed out. Most Ukrainian actions elsewhere can be explained in large part as an attempt to be seen as doing something in retaliation.
Posted by: Cesare | Aug 2 2022 15:29 utc | 11
The Empire rewards its goons, a scene right out of every science fiction movie. Do Ukrainians have movie theaters or books?
Posted by: Turk 152 | Aug 2 2022 15:36 utc | 12
Cesare | Aug 2 2022 15:14 utc | 4
Ukraine has apparently rushed in an elite unit - the so called guard of the president of Ukraine
They are all dead now, a strike 2-3 days ago
Posted by: rk | Aug 2 2022 15:37 utc | 13
The policy is transparent Wunderwafee HIMARS M777 and sack loads of Petals on the instruction of devils CIA MI6 are to concentrate fire and destruction on liberated Donbass. Priority targets to date include mostly civilian infrastructure housing and amenities the apparent aim to maximise civilian causalities and degrade vital infrastructure.
The unambiguous resolve to commit war crimes betrays the predilection of these Western Agencies to Neo Nazis and Fascist ideology idealised in their symbiotic relationship with the Neo Nazis punishers of Ukraine and the gangsters of Kosovo. The common roots of this ideology emphasize the elimination of radicalised communities opposed to fascism and capitalism whether in the steppes of Eastern Ukraine or the barrios of the global south.
Posted by: Rick | Aug 2 2022 15:40 utc | 14
"“We know Ukraine didn’t attack the site with HIMARS because the site doesn’t have the indications it would have if it was hit with HIMARS,” one of the officials said."
The lies these people tell are so ridiculous it really calls into question either their intelligence or their audience's.
They have no access to the site, so it's completely specious for them to make assertions about what is found there.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 2 2022 15:42 utc | 15
@Exile I have been saying for days "Do you think that the Ukrainians have been to Fort Sill, OK (US Army Artillery Center) for 8 months to learn how to operate HIMARS?" I don't know what the actual length of time it takes to train soldiers to operate the HIMARS but 8 months is a good guess.
Posted by: StephenJ | Aug 2 2022 15:45 utc | 16
When Moon of Alabama is posting an excerpt from Thomas Friedman you know you really fucked up.
Maybe the Chinese will do something like when Russia annexed Crimea. Kinmen island is only a few km from the coast of Xiamen. Only 125k people living on the whole island, very low density. Entirely surrounded by PRC in a bay and has a limited garrison that can't be reinforced and a relatively pro-unificiation population by ROC standards. (Lots of descendants of recent immigrants from PRC and they have a lot more positive interactions with Xiamen people)
The ROC hanging on to them was a big factor in the US deciding to go a posture of ambiguity in terms of defending the ROC.
Posted by: Altai | Aug 2 2022 15:51 utc | 17
Brazilian mobsters were successful because they learned that the army is only for one thing, intimidating the own people, sending cannon fodder to die in a lost war is a waste of useful manpower.
Posted by: Mathaus | Aug 2 2022 15:54 utc | 18
I've no time for the treacherous b*stard that is the FM of Scotland, she has sold Scots out on independence to further her and her party's twisted agenda, here she glorifies the deaths of 41,000 Russians. This is the maniacal leader of Scotland who twice called for Nato to create a no-fly zone over Ukraine and in the process kick-off WWIII.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/1554462438405423107?s=20&t=LP8e5LSo6JwTZ7lhfcQqyg
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 2 2022 15:58 utc | 19
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 2 2022 15:58 utc | 19
What do you expect from somebody who would frame their mentor (apparently)?
Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 2 2022 16:02 utc | 20
thanks b...
ukraine and nato are playing a losing hand.... anyone who would bomb a prison with their own prisoners in it, or drop land mines into an area that you don't control and want to terrorize are playing a losing hand.. lets see what the red cross and un field trip produces... this bombing of the prison wasn't covered by the msm in the same way....
i appreciate reading the other posters thoughts on all this.. thanks..
@ Leuk | Aug 2 2022 15:22 utc | 7... thanks, although i don't like clicking tiny url links.... make it a regular link with the html tags...
Posted by: james | Aug 2 2022 16:04 utc | 21
Peter F Meier @ #3.
(DW Ukraine news reports)
I watch DW News reports, broadcst in Oz on ABC News, most days of the week. Whilst they do repeat all of the tosh, drivel and lies cooked up by the US-Zelinsky cranks, they also usually add the qualifier "This could not be independently confirmed."
That's not as good as asking for Russia's version of controversial events, but it's a lot better than ABC and NBC Amerikkka's breathless bullshit. But it's pretty good for an under-the-thumb US colony.
It tells me that DW feels an obligation to minimise ihe deception. I still think Germany, France & Italy will eventually tell the dumbass Yanks to shove their Fake Wars where the sun doesn't shine.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 2 2022 16:05 utc | 22
It's time for Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Belarus to start formalizing a real, actual alliance.
Posted by: Ghan-buri-Ghan | Aug 2 2022 16:08 utc | 23
Awfulavalanche had a piece on the prison bombardment a few days ago and pointed to the peculiar wording of the initial reaction from a US official - the official transcript is here: https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3110921/senior-defense-official-and-senior-military-official-hold-a-background-briefing/
"Here’s the last thing I'd say, if it happened to be a Ukrainian strike, I promise you, number one, they didn't mean to do that, right? They certainly care about their own people and they care about the civilians and military in uniform of their own army... So anyways, we'll see where this goes but I would just tell you, as you approach this in your reporting, you know, we'll find the right side of this but I wouldn't believe it's the Russians right away."
...leaving open the "mean" vs "want" reported by awfulavalanche
Posted by: htyul | Aug 2 2022 16:14 utc | 24
@19 If Zelensky showed up in a kilt she would declare war on Russia.
Posted by: dh | Aug 2 2022 16:16 utc | 25
Thank you for providing the Friedman column which lurks behind a pay wall for me. I do not read him as a matter of course but I wanted to see this one.Posted by: Quid Me Vexare | Aug 2 2022 15:15 utc | 5
Reddit is full of discussion boards on how to bypass various paywalls.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 2 2022 16:22 utc | 26
Posted by: Leuk | Aug 2 2022 15:22 utc | 7
On the Internet there is an article by French Brigadier General (retired) Antoine Martinez…
——
Funny how these western officials and military people always only discover the truth after they retire. When in service they dutifully serve empire as expected. Very few publicly resign in protest…they wait until they are “safe” and have no influence. Kind of dilutes their message.
Posted by: Oh Please | Aug 2 2022 16:27 utc | 28
One of the big problems with the Nuremburg Trials is they didn't prosecute Hitler's enablers living within Allied nations who were just as guilty as many of those arrested and tried. Why that happened is answered by the adoption of Nazis by the Outlaw US Empire's post-FDR administration that continued Nazism within Europe and the wider world. This is no wild assertion by me as its officially documented by numerous records and books written based upon those records. IMO, a great problem exists in the world today because that historical episode has never been given the wider and deeper examination it demands that would educate the global public as to the evil designs of the Outlaw US Empire since 1945, of which today's events are the great inflection point as the Empire begins its downward trajectory.
Biden, Pelosi, Blinken, Sullivan, Pompeo, Manchin, and a whole raft of elected and non-elected politicos are the caretakers of modern Nazism that's now embodied within Neoliberalism. And we can easily see who their allies are within the EU and the national fascists supporting it, particularly within Germany. I see Blinken is to materialize at the 55th ASEAN Foreign Ministers' Meeting and related meetings in Phnom Penh this week where China has already said it will not meet with him. Russia is also supposed to be present, but I don't know who it's sending or if any meeting with Blinken will occur.
Do any barflies believe a team can be trained to operate a HIMARS effectively within 2 weeks ?It’s a reasonable supposition that US military are in-country and operating those weapons.
Posted by: Exile | Aug 2 2022 15:26 utc | 9
It would be a trivial task for the US military to locate and train their own staff with Ukrainian heritage and language skills to act as the technical operators of HIMARS. Provide them with Ukrainian papers and backstory in the event they are captured. Which is unlikely since they are considerable distance from the front lines.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 2 2022 16:34 utc | 30
Also noted is an observable increase in the effectiveness of Ukrainian defense tactics and the unexplained improvement in their unit to unit battlefield communications during the two or three weeks prior to the Pelosi ... provocation. ...
Posted by: Josh | Aug 2 2022 15:18 utc | 6
Observed where / how and noted by whom?
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 2 2022 16:51 utc | 31
karlof1 | Aug 2 2022 16:27 utc | 29
...IMO, a great problem exists in the world today because that historical episode has never been given the wider and deeper examination it demands that would educate the global public as to the evil designs of the Outlaw US Empire since 1945...
Yeah, Operation Paperclip was just the tip of the iceberg.
Joseph P. Farrell takes a closer look.
Posted by: john | Aug 2 2022 16:56 utc | 32
@ RepublicofScotland #19.
You’ve been listening to western MSM propaganda.
Russian losses are no where near 41.000 and that includes the Donbass militias and the Chechnyans.
Even the C.I.A. put the number at 15k and that is probably very optomistic.
Posted by: Beibdnn | Aug 2 2022 16:58 utc | 33
john @32--
Thanks for your reply. Cynthia Chung's series of articles documenting the long involvement of the CIA with Europe's Nazis, specifically Ukraine's OUN, and their promotion and preservation are based on the primary sources named in this segment of the series. Congress mandated the release of the document trove then turned a blind eye to their contents and meaning. Several years before Chung, Wayne Madsen wrote a similar article for the same publication I have saved to my VK Wall. I'll look into the source you provided to see what he reveals. I note in the blurb at the link that the exodus to South America's mentioned but not the prep-work done by OSS/CIA/US State & War Departments to facilitate that. And all that points back to 1934 to the failed Businessmen's Coup that was outed by Smedley Butler but whose instigators went unprosecuted by FDR, which for me raises serious questions that remain unanswered.
Ottawa Treaty (Wikipedia):
The Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction of 1997, known informally as the Ottawa Treaty, the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention, or often simply the Mine Ban Treaty, aims at eliminating anti-personnel landmines (AP-mines) around the world.
…
The Ukraine has signed the Convention on February 24, 1999 and has ratified it on December 27, 2005. Thus, by using these mines, the Ukraine is breaking the international law. (It is also committing a war crime by using them against the center of a large city where no fighting is going on.)
The horrible anti-personnel mines are called PFM-1 Lepestok and were the Soviet response to U.S.’s BLU-43 Dragontooth.
Posted by: S | Aug 2 2022 17:29 utc | 35
Quick C&P from the last Ukraine thread:
Does anyone know how to get access to the Russian MoD "clobber list" from the US? Seems like US IP addresses are just outright blocked.
Posted by: fnord | Aug 2 2022 14:32 utc | 63
There are browsers with in-built VPN (where you can "set" the location from where you access the internet) like Opera. What should work is the Tor browser.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Aug 2 2022 17:33 utc | 36
Friedman appears to be pedalling a classic Limited Hangout by admitting to some US culpability in HIMARS targeting only so he can try to draw the line short of what most here will strongly suspect: that HIMARS is manned exclusively by NATO personnel and is under the exclusive direction of the US.
Too smart to claim ignorance, another unscrupulous lackey hustling to maintain his ****ty little role in the Empire scam.
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 2 2022 17:36 utc | 37
Now this is a strange one, from Intel Slava Z. What to make of it? Author unknown, as usual with Intel Slava but I have to assume it's 'semi-official'?
🇷🇺 The only one who benefited from today's air show over the Taiwan Strait is the Kremlin. Unlike China, Russia was not afraid to enter into a fierce geopolitical and military battle with the United States of America. The whole world perceives the Ukrainian war in this way.In the long run, Russia will benefit from any development of the Taiwan story.
If China retreats again, which is more than likely, Russia will receive the status of the undisputed leader of the "alternative" world, capable, and more importantly, ready to use force where it considers it fundamental and important for itself. For thirty years only the United States could afford it.
Around this strengthened leadership, Russia will build new geopolitical configurations and balances of power in various regions of the world - from Central Europe, Transcaucasia to West and Central Africa.
If China does not back down and starts an open political and economic confrontation with the United States, this will ease the pressure on Russia. “There won’t be enough Himars for everyone” —
Beibdnn (33).
I'm not focusing on the tally, I'm more concerned about the attitude of leader on this matter and her faced Russophobia.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 2 2022 17:55 utc | 39
farm ecologist (20).
Spot on, and she's done plenty more, enough to make your hair curl, many think she's a Whitehall puppet, I tend to agree.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 2 2022 17:59 utc | 40
The western story is absurd. The west is claiming that Russia bombed its own POW prison as a false flag. However, a false flag requires media complicity. We know that western media would not be complicit in faking a Ukraine attack on POWs, so such a staged false flag by Russia would have no purpose and make no sense.
Posted by: FVK | Aug 2 2022 18:11 utc | 41
@38
China has no reason to take America's bait and confront the USA over some old washed up slut visiting the fake government of Taiwan. China will take Taiwan when it wants, on its own time, not because of this sort of political theater from the land of Hollywood movies.
Posted by: FVK | Aug 2 2022 18:15 utc | 42
I never see Kolomoisky mentioned in any analysis nowadays - he's been missing for months now. Having been the puppet-master of Zelensky from the beginning, does he suddenly disappear from the picture? Are the many corrupt thefts conducted by Zelensky happening purely for Zelensky's own benefit? Is Zelensky even capable of transferring his gains to safe havens without the knowledge or participation (and profit sharing) of Kolomoisky?
We know that Zelensky is controlled by the local nazis and the US, but is he no longer controlled also by Kolomoisky?
I may well have missed the memo, since I haven't followed the nitty-gritty of this affair, but I'm curious if we know for sure that Kolomoisky is a spent force, in retirement and shoved aside by the US management? Or if he still lives, and surely would still operate, unless otherwise constrained?
I would welcome information, although I'm just passing through at the moment and can't check back for several hours.
Posted by: Grieved | Aug 2 2022 18:17 utc | 43
@Barofsky #38
@George A. #41
Please don’t post off-topic comments. Taiwan can be discussed here: On The 'Woke' Flight To Taiwan.
Posted by: S | Aug 2 2022 18:18 utc | 44
@Barofsky 38
It’s an absolutely corrrct statement. Russia has come out of this majorly strengthened while China who will back down for the 100th time, look like their energy dependent poodles, protecting their pro-American business interests to the exclusion of anything else.
Posted by: Night Tripper | Aug 2 2022 18:18 utc | 45
Posted by: Grieved | Aug 2 2022 18:17 utc | 44
Re where is Kolomoisky:
Isn't he hiding out in Israel whinging about all his lost property in the Donbas?
Posted by: Night Tripper | Aug 2 2022 18:18 utc | 46
Balancing on a tightrope, more likely. The thing is, Russia and China need each other, there's a great deal of complimentarity between the two countries and the Empire of Chaos knows this. I think another aspect of the situation is simply how the West chooses to translate from the Chinese (they do the same with Russian). The Chinese state never spells things out directly, the language doesn't work that way, all is hyperbole, the best English can do is extract the words that suit them best.
Kolomoisky was stripped of his citizenship by Zelensky not so long ago. The whys and wherefores of the action were not given.
He also has property in Switzrland, but as with any billioaire, he must have several holes to occupy in the case of need.
Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 2 2022 18:37 utc | 48
The reckless distribution of anti-personnel mines by the Ukrainian forces has all the hallmarks of American military influence in the decision-making process: if one isn't winning, and must make a retreat, destroy everything, up to and including innocent civilians. It's the mentality of a petulant child, a pattern seen throughout US imperial history, both in military campaigns and in diplomatic actions. Hopefully some of the Ukrainian soldiers with true heart will assassinate the Americans running the show, whenever, wherever, and as often as possible in the circumstances in which they find themselves. The best outcome from this SMO would be the maximum possible number of Americans in body bags. Don't even repatriate the bodies, either; dump them in the ocean, as that is a fitting conclusion to lives spent committing acts of evil.
Posted by: Eric | Aug 2 2022 18:42 utc | 49
Frankly, I'm skeptical of both the Ukrainian torture story, which seems concocted by the Ukrainians AND the Russian HIMARS-killed-the-prisoners story.
Reference the latter, I find the idea that the GoU is trying to mass-murder its own POWs because someone among them is collaborating with the Russians lacking in plausibility. And the fact that the Russians seem to be holding off a UN visit to the location is suspicious too.
Also, I'm far from clear that the damage to the building and types of injuries to the inmates are really consistent with HIMARS despite what is said in this article.
A more likely theory to me is that since the DPR folks deeply hate the Azov prisoners for past acts, some group within the DPR--rogue or not--engineered the killing--either with an explosive placed internally in the building or possibly a thermobaric weapon fired from outside (TOS-1 has a 500m minimum range and there are hand-held weapons as well.) The higher-ups were then forced to come up with the best cover story they could on the fly and chose HIMARS.
Allegedly eight or nine guards were killed too. That needs to be confirmed (by having families confirm it.)
I'm happy to be proved wrong. But the Russian explanation of the slaughter of the prisoners is unsatisfactory as things stand now.
Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Aug 2 2022 18:43 utc | 51
Posted by: Grieved | Aug 2 2022 18:17 utc | 44
Ownership of Zelensky was transferred from Kolomoisky to the US State Department.
Interestingly on Kolomoisky’s Wiki page :
On 28 July 2022, Zelenskyy appeared to confirm the authenticity of an 18 July presidential decree published on-line by the opposition MP Serhiy Vlasenko[153][154] that strips Ukrainian citzenship from Kolomoyskyi and nine others,[155] These included both Hennadiy Korban who had been deputy governor of Dnipropetrovsk under Kolomoyskyi (and since 24 February 2022, head of the Dnipro Territorial Defence),[156] and Vadim Rabinovich.[155] Although dual citzenship is prohibited in Ukrainian law, all three held Israeli passports.[157]
Posted by: Down South | Aug 2 2022 18:44 utc | 52
"Russian losses are no where near 41.000 and that includes the Donbass militias and the Chechnyans.
Even the C.I.A. put the number at 15k and that is probably very optomistic."
If there is war, there are losses on all sides, military and civilian.
But there's also a propaganda war. As we've all seen, Ukraine always shows its victims and victorirs.
So, where are the imagrs of the dead Russians?
There are almost NONE since phase 2 started.
Considering true the 1351 death toll advanced by Russian MoD after phase 1, then I'd be surprised if Russia had more than 2 or 3 thousand dead in TOTAL.
Consider that nost Ukrainian soldiers/militants die without ever seeing a Russian in front if them. Ukrainians are killed in their dormitories all over Ukraine thanks to long range Russian missiles, or a bit closer with aircraft operations or the Russian MLRS (some with longer range than HIMARS). Other Ukrainians are killed in trenches by Russian artillery at 15 or 20 Km distance. And everytime Russia creates a cauldron (like Lisichansk, Zolote, etc) Ukrainians are killed by close fire when they tryto retreat.
Inside cities is another story. But have you see the state of the cities after the Russian advance and mop-up operations? They only advance in cities when Russian infantry can walk there in (relative) safety.
And then there's the comparison between Ukraine forced conscription, with numerous videos of them chasing young men in their streets. And laws passed to allow territorial defence (civilians that learned to use a Kalashnikov in February...) to the front lines, older people, women, and even people that could participate only in the paralympics...
On the other hand, Russia has no firced conscription, is still using its professional army, and resistence units from LDPR.
And theres's that Austrian military with a YouTube channel (Österreichs Bundesheer) saying in February Ukraine had 81 BTG and Russia started with 93, while at the start of July (after Lisichansk conquest and full Lugansk Republic liberation), Ukraine was down to 60 BTG, while Russia had 108.
As for the slow advance, pay attention to the part that says ADVANCE, and remember it's made with minimal cadualties, a lot of help to the liberated people, de-mining, etc. And all this with only 10% to 15% of Russia's forces/equipment.
Looking at Russian daily update, this limited operation already destroyed more men and equipment than European NATO combined. What difference do 12 HIMARS make if Russia already destroyed 6 of those in a few weeks (faster than USA can ever make and provide them), and +760 MLRS of the other models?
If Ukraine killed 1351 Russians and lost 20% of its territory with +700 MLRS, what counter-offensive can they do (and how many Russians can they kill) with just 6 remaining MLRS of that famous model?
Everytime Ukraine uses a ship to attack, it's destroyed.
Everytime Ukrainr uses an aircraft to attack, it's destroyed.
Russia destroyed what Ukraine had, what NATO prepared for 8 years, and is systematically destroying all "new" soldiers and equipment.
As someone said, why would Russia advance faster? They can save their lives and kill Ukrainian cannon fodder this way too.
By the time all Donetsk Republic is liberated, what will be left of Ukraine's army, Ukraine's NAZI militants, and NATO equipment? NOTHING.
Then (2023) will be the ideal time to advance abd get Zaporoje, Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Krivoy Rog, Nikolaev, and Odessa. With minimal resistence and with the prizes intact.
And with Europe in the condition it will be after a cold Winter with no gas, bankrupcies, recession, record inflation, and probably another (final?) €uro Zone debt crisis.
And let's see how USA's economy will be after the Chinese response to this Taiwan stupid provocation.
Some in CGTN are already talking about sanctions and cut in exports/imports to/from USA. They say USA people need to feel the consequences on their wallets and skins. Only then they will vote against (or overthrow) the NeoCons (both red and blue) that created this situation.
And then the other problem will be even more obvious: where do you vote when there's a bi-partisan oligarchy? Where's the green, the yellow, the white, etc?
The USA NON-democratic regime is made just for the red and blue illusion, and those came together to created the purple single-party regime of NeoCons (wars all the time to keep hegemony by force and give profit to MIC, that then finances back the corrupt/assassin USA politicians) and fanatic NeoLibs in the economy (1% getting richer, working people getting poorer, and nothing else allowed "because that's communism"...).
Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 2 2022 18:46 utc | 53
@ S | Aug 2 2022 17:29 utc | 35
thanks s... a critical bit of info, but we know the west will not be holding itself or ukraine to account for any of this... there will be silence and that is it..
@ Grieved | Aug 2 2022 18:17 utc | 44
as others above have noted, zelensky ownership was transferred from kolomoisky to the cia... kolomoisky and his family aren't allowed to go to the usa... i do believe he is in israel or maybe switzerland, but not in ukraine...
Posted by: james | Aug 2 2022 18:51 utc | 54
51 Cont'd--
Surprised that link posted. It's to an article about Hungary's Orban announcing his nation's independence from Brussels, "EU is not our boss" the bolded headline announces. The attempt to rile Serbia over Kosovo is an attempt to get Russia to support Belgrade. I have my own thoughts about what must be done there and elsewhere in the Balkans. If a general war erupts in Europe, NATO will lose and the EU will dissolve. The Outlaw US Empire needs to be careful in what it does as it's about to lose its European Colony.
I may well have missed the memo, since I haven't followed the nitty-gritty of this affair, but I'm curious if we know for sure that Kolomoisky is a spent force, in retirement and shoved aside by the US management? Or if he still lives, and surely would still operate, unless otherwise constrained?Posted by: Grieved | Aug 2 2022 18:17 utc | 44
Kolomoisky was sanctioned by the US State Department in September 2021. That signaled the official transfer of the ownership of Zelensky to US State and the CIA.
I have asked the question here and elsewhere many times. Why does no fearless and intrepid reporter not try to get ahold of Kolomoisky and get his opinion on the current state of affairs and the actions of his former puppet?
The other lingering question is there were reports of at least 6 foreign languages being used in communications out of the Azovstal tunnels, indicating numerous foreign operatives were there. Yet after the evacuation, not a single one was identified. Obviously the Russians were complicit in this decision not to release this.
The only rational conclusion is that our access to information, and hence our opinions, is being shaped, on all sides.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 2 2022 18:55 utc | 56
@Hoarsewhisperer #22:
It tells me that DW feels an obligation to minimise ihe deception.
That's actually not really the case. DW chairman Peter Limbourg has promised to make DW an anti-Putin-station (in German).
I still think Germany, France & Italy will eventually tell the dumbass Yanks to shove their Fake Wars where the sun doesn't shine.
With regard to Germany: Alas, not gonna happen. :-(
Posted by: Peter F. Meier | Aug 2 2022 18:56 utc | 57
@38
Intel-Slava-Z translates various stuff from Russian into English, but I wouldn't elevate it to the level of "semi-official". This sounds like the opinion of an analyst. The truism holds, that the winner in these situations is usually whichever major power is not directly involved. Just as China took away the most benefit from the US/NATO-vs-Russia activities. Perfecetly good logic, but no need to get carried away beyond that.
China will flex in whatever way makes sense. If there were any people inside the Chinese power structure who thought that US would respect them at this point in time, ie from their in fact world-leading economic base, those people in China can now see that is not the case. US is totally on autopilot, as usual trying to start a proxy wars to create difficulties for rivals, while remaining at a safe distance. Various poodles (ie client states of US) will yap away obediently, oblivious to the approaching reality. China will increase preparations, not much choice now. What happens next after that will be pretty natural I think. A symbolic but non-trivial conflict will have to take place. It doesn't necessarily have to be Taiwan, but it has to be somewhere.
Posted by: ptb | Aug 2 2022 19:02 utc | 58
I appreciate postings on this site that provide new information or are fact-based analysis. I ignore speculation, innuendo, or attempts at prophesy. No one knows the future.
Posted by: Richard | Aug 2 2022 19:03 utc | 59
Oscar Peterson | Aug 2 2022 18:43 utc | 52
"I find the idea that the GoU is trying to mass-murder its own POWs because someone among them is collaborating with the Russians lacking in plausibility."
You find it implausible that the regime, in standard gangster fashion, would reason that "some of those guys must be squealing, and since we have the means to do so, let's whack them"? On the contrary, I find that to be one of the most plausible things I've heard since the war began.
"And the fact that the Russians seem to be holding off a UN visit to the location is suspicious too."
If the Russians really are wising up that unilateral cooperation with the US lapdog UN is only self-defeating, that's a fine thing. It's exactly what anyone who understands that this really is WWIII would be doing.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Aug 2 2022 19:07 utc | 60
> It is Geopolitics 101 that you don’t court a two-front war with the other two superpowers at the same time.
When did Russia suddenly became a superpower? That masquerading gas station with economy in tatters?
What a bad case of Rusophrenia...
Posted by: Arioch | Aug 2 2022 19:13 utc | 61
@Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 2 2022 16:27 utc | 29
The West worked hard to typify Nazism as an "exception" that was not reflective of the West. Hitler admired the US for how it created its own lebensraum through the genocide of the native community and land theft, he also admired the UK for how it managed its empire (and the genocides practised in all the UKs white settler colonies).
There were many western enablers, Ford (got a medal of commendation from Hitler), IBM etc. US companies even got compensated for the damage to their factories in Germany during the war, the ones supplying the Nazi war machine. The UK and France hoped that Hitler would look east and deal with the communist threat for them (bolstered by Austria and the Czech munitions industry). The Poles hoped that Hitler would ally with them to fight the Soviet Union. The west also made no attempt to save the Republicans in Spain while Germany and Italy provided extensive assistance to Franco.
"1939" by Michael Jabara Carley and "Blood and Ruins: The Last Imperial War: 1931-1945" by Richard Every are an excellent cold shower for those who still consider WW2 to be the "good war".
Fascism was simply another way of facilitating capitalism when liberalism failed to do so, there was a big fascist party in the US in the 1930s and the choice during that decade was between a fascist solution and the New Deal compromise. Anti-semitism was rife among the western elites, including in the US.
I am reading "Liberalism: A Counter-History" by Dominico Losurdo. He notes a saying the I had not heard of before "scratch a liberal and you find a fascist underneath". A very true statement, fascism never went away - the fascists were generally taken care of, apart from the most public cases, and fascism remains in the wings to be used when necessary to smash the resistance of the masses to their exploitation.
In the US especially, but also in other nations, neoliberalism is morphing into fascism - the inverted kind that Wolin identified. The state doesn't control business, business controls the state plus dictatorial power (the Imperial Executive and business controlled Congress), extensive surveillance and suppression of all opposition and regimentation of political-economic beliefs (subsumed under the Dem-Repub hydra), subordination of individual interests for the good of big business, US supremacist beliefs (only the US can police the world) etc. In 2024 we will probably get the "big man", probably a more competent version of Trump, but it is not needed. A weak Biden has shown no impediment to US-style fascism. The ability to make unfortunate facts into unfacts is quite astonishing, such as the revelations of domestic spying, the scandal about Hunter Biden, the OPCW scandal, the disappearing of all the western press reporting on Ukrainian Nazis. Same as making people into unpeople, such as Assange.
Photo of ‘petal’ bomblet used here by b is same photo as in various links and as appeared in Military Summary Channel a couple of days ago. I. E these are all old photos from prior conflict. If what Military Summary guy Dimas said is true—-tanks were running around in the night like crazy rabbits running over the newly landed bomblets to explode them before civilians awoke—where are some recent photos that can be vetted for time and place?
Posted by: Mjh | Aug 2 2022 19:17 utc | 63
Posted by: FVK | Aug 2 2022 18:11 utc | 42
Posted by: FVK | Aug 2 2022 18:15 utc | 43
Solid arguments, thank you.
Posted by: Barofsky | Aug 2 2022 17:55 utc | 38
That Intel Slava post comes across as premature triumphalism. To me the whole thing looks like a far more careful and cooperative game from RF and CN than the Intel Slava post seems to credit.
I guess it comes down to how you view the alliance between Russian and China.
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 2 2022 19:17 utc | 64
> that the GoU is trying to mass-murder its own POWs because someone among them is collaborating with the Russians lacking in plausibility
Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Aug 2 2022 18:43 utc | 52
There is one more goal to this though: dissuade Ukrainians from fleeing away.
Why would not Ukrianian cannon fodder just go to Russian side and surrender? Because of fear.
They fear nazi death squads would shoot them in the back.
They also fear Russian cannibals would eat them alive.
This latter spin is nothing new.
Reportedly some very old ladies in liberated towns were dying of hunger of thirst in the basement, they had no stamina left to crawl upwards into light, yet still they kept total silence, fearing Russians would tear them apart. Years of Ukrainian propaganda resonated good in them. They saw cruelties of EuroMaidan regime, and from that point they deduced how much worse inferior Russian subhumans would be.
...Those ladies were found during combing of all the houses, just in time to save them. How many were not?
Equally people of Okinawa during WW2 were propagandized how racist Amricans would kill them all. Coming from rather racist mouths of nothern Japanese this should had have little effect, but it actually did. "If even Japanese fear how racist and cruels Americans are - then that should be really really bad".
Today even civilian citizens are trying to flee from "free Ukraine" into "Russia occupied regions" - https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1137867 despite having no direct threats to their lives.
You can see how tempting that idea would be for a cannon fodder, thrown into trenches without good weapons, good supplies and good command. Surrender, save their lives and let Zelensky and Putin fight their fights there.
Ukrainian propaganda needs to drive it home, that surrendering is not giving safety.
Guillible Ukrainians would learn that "Russian subhumans are killing Ukrainians POWs. You surrender - you get killed" and keep in trenches. Fine.
Less guillible ones would learn that "EuroUkrainians are killing all traitors anywhre they are. You surrender - you get killed" and keep in trenches. Fine too.
As Bandera party used to say (which was emotionally denied while truthfully implemented by Euromaidan folks) "our power should be instilling fear". HIMARS do just that.
Posted by: Arioch | Aug 2 2022 19:27 utc | 65
Hi Bernhard.... Thanks for the detailed reporting on the strike against the POW detention center. From the moment this hit the news, I suspected that the Ukie-Nazis were behind the strike in an effort to eliminate eyewitnesses to their atrocities that could implicate the higher ups in Kiev during a war crimes tribunal.
I can't wait to read your thoughts on the absolutely idiotic Annalena Baerbock's remarks on Germany coming to help Taiwan in case of a Chinese attack. This woman is the worst foreign minister Germany ever had. Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi and Liz Truss don't come close to her level of stupidity and incompetence... and that is saying something.
Posted by: Beverly | Aug 2 2022 19:32 utc | 66
Considering true the 1351 death toll advanced by Russian MoD after phase 1
Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 2 2022 18:46 utc | 55
For what i understand, RuMoD only publishes the numbers they "own", that they have responsibility for and ability to double-check, that is - of victims of the very RuArmy ranks.
Victims from RosGuardia (police-like state structure), from LPR and DPR armies, from some volunteers or mercs - those would most probably not be included in RuMoD statistics.
So the TOTAL losses by all Allies are probably significantly abome the RuMoD figure representing only the part inflicted on RuArmy.
Posted by: Arioch | Aug 2 2022 19:33 utc | 67
"...If China retreats again, which is more than likely, Russia will receive the status of the undisputed leader of the "alternative" world, capable, and more importantly, ready to use force where it considers it fundamental and important for itself. For thirty years only the United States could afford it...." Barofsky@38
Wouldn't that suit China just fine? Busily building its economic power, educating its massive population and exending its influence slowly throughout Eurasia, Africa and America sans anglos. Neither spending too much on arms nor wasting time on sanctions and boycotts. If the West wants an Aunt Sally, let it be content with just one-Russia- which can actually profit from the 'west's' hostility, not least by pouring raw materials and energy into China.
Republicofscotland@40
A CIA/NATO puppet more likely. Neither Europe nor the USA has any fears of Scots "independence." And the Scots' ruling class, typified by Sturgeon et al, is simply swapping one ruined old roue of a patron for another, younger, wealthier and stronger.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2022 19:35 utc | 68
anon2020 | Aug 2 2022 19:17 utc | 66
"I guess it comes down to how you view the alliance between Russian and China."
Absolutely. I think they've got each other whether they like it or not. They're both major competitors of the Empire, there's nothing new about any of this, all that's changed is that the former vanquished have got their mojo back. The Soviet Union couldn't do it, nor could Red China but I fear that it maybe too late.
Arne Hartmann@54
You might be interested in this article in Orinoco Tribune
https://orinocotribune.com/russia-to-open-a-glonass-navigation-system-base-in-venezuela/
This one too:
https://orinocotribune.com/venezuela-labor-protests-and-narco-politics-are-warning-lights-on-the-dashboard/
Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2022 19:47 utc | 70
"...Dominico Losurdo...notes a saying the I had not heard of before "scratch a liberal and you find a fascist underneath..."
I think that Trotsky was one of the first to note that characteristic of fascism, very early on. Sorry, no references, I simply remember being struck by the insight. And that was fifty years ago.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 2 2022 19:51 utc | 71
Posted by: Barofsky | Aug 2 2022 19:39 utc | 71
Japan vanquished China, but not Mao's China; the US vanquished neither.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 2 2022 19:55 utc | 72
It killed 50 and wounded 70. Well, I gues this treatment will open tongues of 70 survivors. And certainly would not inspire those at the front lines. It is complete moral degradation.
These aren't those who surrendered, these are russian taken captives of the most capable (if not good) ukrainian troops.
Macron supposedly asked Putin not to release information about french officers in Azovstal.
Posted by: Alef | Aug 2 2022 19:55 utc | 73
"Frankly, I'm skeptical of... the Russian HIMARS-killed-the-prisoners story."
Yeah, why would a Jewish president sign off on the extermination of a bunch of caged Nazi rats that had become severe liabilities?
Woketard: "We just use the term 'Nazi' for people we don't like. We know they are not really Nazis. I'm sure it's the same in the Ukraine."
Nope, woketard, these are real Nazis, with swastika and Hitler tramp-stamp tattoos to prove it.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 2 2022 20:10 utc | 74
"Does anyone know how to get access to the Russian MoD "clobber list" from the US? Seems like US IP addresses are just outright blocked."
VPN. Not just US IP addresses are blocked. I was accessing it from Moldova and some other countries (via my VPN) but they seem to have come under attack from various other countries and are blocked or are self-blocking to prevent (Denial of Service) DOS attacks. India still works. The latest report as of this writing 02.08.2022 (15:15) claims around 1,000 AFU 'eliminated' and says something about a artillery friendly fire AFU incident that "almost completely eliminated" the surviving members of the 21st Battalion of 56th Motorized Infantry Brigade during their retreat to Vodyanoye.
The reports are terse and, of course, generally do not include Russian or allied setbacks that may have occurred.
Posted by: Billb | Aug 2 2022 20:22 utc | 75
bad day today for ukrainian soldiers by the sounds of it..
Ukraine. Military Summary And Analysis 02.08.2022
Posted by: james | Aug 2 2022 20:25 utc | 76
@ 29 Karlof1
This particular problem stem for the dubious Nuremberg trials, which because of US meddling turned into a farce. The very few that eventually did hang were just window dressing. A huge bunch of these a@@holes were recruited by various US 3 letter agencies, most notable SOS. The Brits secured a few too. Of course later in the 70ties the truth began to seep out, and everyone became busy washing hands, and some perpetrators were returned to Germany, where they received very, very lenient prison sentences. Pffuuuii!
The Russians had a very different attitude, had you committed war crimes and it could be proven, you would 95% sure hang. Basta!
That is the way to do it: Either clean and free, or guilty and soon to hang.
This is what needs to be done in the Nazi hideout called Ukraine!
Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Aug 2 2022 20:26 utc | 77
... The Soviet Union couldn't do it, nor could Red China but I fear that it maybe too late.
Posted by: Barofsky | Aug 2 2022 19:39 utc | 71
Yes, sorry, you posted more @48 that I missed at the time so my response was a little generic. Agreed on what you say except that I can’t see how this’ll turn out at the moment. Granted that’s quite scary!
Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 2 2022 20:28 utc | 78
Good point. Ukraine must have geniuses who could operate HIMARS and carry sutch precise strike just after 2 weeks of training. Or maybe they have US or UK personell.
But it's up to those who make a commands. I don't think americans would fall so low. But Zelensky regime could be very willing to cover their actions.
During maidan coup in 2014 some unknow snipers shoot at both civilian protesters and military. Nadezhda Savchenko said, those who ordered this now is in parlament hence no investigations would find anything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadiya_Savchenko#Political_views
On 15 March 2018, Savchenko claimed that "people now lawmakers" were involved with the deadly sniper shootings during the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution and that the government that came to power after the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution did not want to fully investigate these shootings.[97]
I guess western military would hate Ukraine after their service there.
Posted by: Alef | Aug 2 2022 20:30 utc | 79
Consider the 'West' took out the internment center because they suspected those inside, as a way to evade war crimes charges and or enact revenge on the regime for not rescuing them from Mariopol, tipped off the Russians as to who might really be operating the HIMARS...true confession(s) or not, the 'West' would not risk any further possible intel confessions...
Posted by: ERing46Z | Aug 2 2022 20:32 utc | 80
Oscar Peterson | Aug 2 2022 18:43 utc | 52
Were the prisoners visited BEFORE the HIMARS attack, by the ICRC?
This lacks confirmation BUT it sounds like the target was reliably "cased" before the attack, so the US knew exactly who and where to hit.
"Did You Know?
HIMARS strike on Azov POWs occurred immediately after ICRC members inspected the #Yelenovka prison where captured Azov POWs were housed.
The ICRC refused to participate in the #OlenivkaMassacre investigation because they cannot explain the strange "coincidence"
Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 2 2022 20:36 utc | 81
Why such certainty that the Olenivka prisoners were killed by Ukraine? There aren't rational motives on either side, but plenty of vengeful motives. Arestovich can be furious with Kozatsky for squealing, but would Kozatsky be among the 50+70 POWs hit, and will those not hit then squeal less or more? The media recites that Azov Brigade members were recently segregated to the building that was hit. Is there any confirmation of this? Has the death-list provided by DPR been studied? If it was an Azov den, then many a DPR soldier would have loved to blow it up. Did a few do that? Did they think to have some HIMARS shards to show, or did a less hot-headed superior quickly find those afterwards? There were initially reports of 8 guards wounded, but these reports have faded away. The slickest way for the DPR to slaughter those Azov beasts would be to trick the UAF into hitting them with HIMARS. We learn that US minders must approve HIMARS targets, but if good DPR double agents feed UAF with coordinates for a juicy hit, like of an all night party of Olenivka guards, how can US minders disapprove?
Posted by: dcouzin | Aug 2 2022 20:39 utc | 82
@ERing46Z | Aug 2 2022 20:32 utc | 82
Consider the 'West' took out the internment center because they suspected those inside, as a way to evade war crimes charges and or enact revenge on the regime for not rescuing them from Mariopol, tipped off the Russians as to who might really be operating the HIMARS...true confession(s) or not, the 'West' would not risk any further possible intel confessions...
That would be witnessing about something that happened after they were captured, so no. I think it is more relevant that thy could be witnessing about what went on in the dungeons of Azovstal that we have not heard yet, and which western high level operatives were there.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 2 2022 20:43 utc | 83
@ 29 Karlof1
This particular problem stem for the dubious Nuremberg trials, which because of US meddling turned into a farce. The very few that eventually did hang were just window dressing. A huge bunch of these a@@holes were recruited by various US 3 letter agencies, most notable SOS. .
...
The Russians had a very different attitude, had you committed war crimes and it could be proven, you would 95% sure hang. Basta!
...
Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Aug 2 2022 20:26 utc | 79
They were quite the same if not worst. Soviet union covered crimes by nations who come under soviet rule, so that it become sole fault of germans. Rest just become a 'victors'.
Lots of nazis settled down in Soviet Union not punished. But Soviet Union punished a lot of not-guilty, sutch as burgeous elements and their children (!) and other communistic nonsense.
I know a lot of folks whose ancestors were nazis and who was born in Soviet Union. I had classmate who painted swastikas at school. He told that his grandfather was wounded and lied down and that there some hudge american N.... walked and killed wounded, but he run away. I guess he was in some oriental nazi division.
Some are pretty strange folks, they 45 been silent about their nazi past but were teaching their children their ideas.
There is a famous story, that the Head of architectural office of "One capital of soviet republic" was former construction engineer at the Nazi concentration camp. Until some camp survivor recognised him and then petitioned just every soviet institution until he was executed.
Posted by: Alef | Aug 2 2022 20:48 utc | 84
The U.S. has assessed that Ukraine did not attack a prison..I think it was Larry C Johnson who said that when you see the word "assess" it means that the US IC is guessing. That is they have no evidence to decide one way or the other. Unless there is an American operator with each HIMARS, there is no way the US can control how any are used. My assessment no US operators with each HIMARS and Zelensky went rogue to attack the POW camp but US IC can prove it.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 2 2022 21:01 utc | 85
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 2 2022 16:27 utc | 29
The Nuremberg trials were a travesty and disgrace. But don't take my word for it, here's from one of its Judges:
"Charles F. Wennerstrum
Iowa Supreme Court Justice Charles F. Wennerstrum, who served as the presiding judge in the Nuremberg trial of German generals, resigned his appointment in disgust at the proceedings. In an interview with the Chicago Tribune, he criticized the one-sided handling of evidence in the trials. Wennerstrum said that selection of the evidence in the trials was made by the prosecution from the large tonnage of captured German records. The defense had access only to those documents which the prosecution considered material to the case.[1]
Justice Wennerstrum also said that the prosecution and staff at Nuremberg were more interested in revenge than justice. He stated: “The prosecution has failed to maintain objectivity aloof from vindictiveness, aloof from personal ambitions for convictions...The trials were to have convinced the Germans of the guilt of their leaders. They convinced the Germans merely that their leaders lost the war to tough conquerors.”[2]
Wennerstrum stated: “The entire atmosphere is unwholesome…Lawyers, clerks, interpreters, and researchers were employed who became Americans only in recent years, whose backgrounds were embedded in Europe’s hatreds and prejudices…If I had known seven months ago what I know today, I would never have come here…The high ideals announced as the motives for creating these tribunals have not been evident.” The lack of appeal in the Nuremberg cases left Wennerstrum “with a feeling that justice has been denied.”[3]
Another Judge reports:
"Edward L. Van Roden
Pennsylvania judge Edward L. Van Roden and Texas Supreme Court Justice Gordon Simpson were members of a three-man commission to investigate the torture and abuse of German defendants in American-run war-crimes trials. Their Simpson Commission report examined the 139 death sentences against Germans which at that time had not been carried out. The cases against the 139 doomed men fell into three groups: Germans accused of involvement in crimes at the Dachau Concentration Camps, in the killing of the crews of downed American warplanes, or in the Malmédy incident.
Van Roden was quoted in an article in The Progressive magazine that he was shocked at the methods used to obtain confessions from German defendants:
The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four, and five months. They were confined between four walls, with no windows, and no opportunity of exercise. Two meals a day were shoved in to them through a slot in the door. They were not allowed to talk to anyone. They had no communication with their families or any minister or priest during that time.
This solitary confinement proved sufficient in itself in some cases to persuade the Germans to sign prepared statements. These statements not only involved the signer, but often would involve other defendants.
Our investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head and then punch him in the face with rubber hose. Many of the German defendants had teeth knocked out. Some had their jaws broken.
All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was Standard Operating Procedure with American investigators.[4]
Van Roden stated that German prisoners who still refused to sign false statements faced more-severe improper treatment:
Sometimes a prisoner who refused to sign was led into a dimly lit room, where a group of civilian investigators, wearing U.S. Army uniforms, were seated around a black table with a crucifix in the center and two candles burning, one on each side. “You will now have your American trial,” the defendant was told.
The sham court passed a sentence of death. Then the accused was told, “You will hang in a few days, as soon as the general approves this sentence: but in the meantime sign this confession and we can get you acquitted.” Some still wouldn’t sign.
We were shocked by the crucifix being used so mockingly.[5]
Van Roden concluded: “Unless these crimes committed by Americans are exposed by us at home, the prestige of America and American justice will suffer permanent and irreparable damage.”[6]"
https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/10/3/6276
Most of the post-war narratives still in use today are build on such rotten foundations and continue to twist interpretation of previous and current events to this day resulting in far too many overly simplistic and self-righteous Good Guys vs Bad Guys narratives which provide much-needed clarity at the expense of the truth which in most cases involving important affairs is beyond words.
Roger @64 & Den Lille Abe @79--
Thanks for your replies. Yes, ourselves and many barflies know part or most of that sordid saga that's yet to end, but many millions don't and need to learn of it. Just like the decades of CIA nurturing and abetting the continuance of Nazism in tandem with OUN in Ukraine that was outed then swept under the rug. IMO, that would be one excellent reason for Assange's motivation. It wasn't my motivation to become a historian. My initial quest was to learn all about the Outlaw US Empire--absolutely everything, which also includes humanity's history. Quite a challenge and despite all the ugliness I've discovered a worthy choice.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 2 2022 21:01 utc | 88
"went rogue to attack the POW camp but US IC can prove it."
should have been
"went rogue to attack the POW camp but US IC can't prove it."Typo.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 2 2022 21:05 utc | 88
Don't you just love it when commentators make assertions of fact without any documentation? Experience has proven those commentators are to be ignored.
@Mjh #65:
If what Military Summary guy Dimas said is true—-tanks were running around in the night like crazy rabbits running over the newly landed bomblets to explode them before civilians awoke—where are some recent photos that can be vetted for time and place?
A heap of PFM-1 (must have been a malfunction in the cassette release mechanism) in Gorlovka:
https://t.me/chp_donetsk_vdnr/25930?single
PFM-1’s in Park Kovanyh Figur [Wrought Iron Figures Park], Donetsk, filmed by Andrey Rudenko:
https://t.me/RtrDonetsk/8046
PFM-1’s in Donetsk, filmed by Eva Bartlett:
https://twitter.com/EvaKBartlett/status/1554032723957792769
https://twitter.com/EvaKBartlett/status/1554034459980201985
Posted by: S | Aug 2 2022 21:12 utc | 90
Posted by: Mjh | Aug 2 2022 19:17 utc | 65
Do better. Where the photos that can be dated to time and place? All over the internet outside Oceania. Hell, one of the UK tabloids published a video of a Donetsk man tossing a tire on one and said it was a Ukrainian blowing up a Russian “petal”. The rest of us have seen sappers that night using shovels to move them out of the street. There was a video of a car accidentally running over one, and I’ve seen the video of the tracked vehicle being used to demine the streets that night. This demand that someone provide you with documentation that meets your criteria is just trolling. Some of us were watching the videos the night Ukraine shot the petals into Donetsk city.
Posted by: Lex | Aug 2 2022 21:18 utc | 91
Posted by: Roger | Aug 2 2022 19:13 utc | 64
Hitler's big crime was that he killed white people.
Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 2 2022 21:24 utc | 92
Yes, the DPR guys might decide that death was better than justice and attack the POWs. There were plenty of complaints about the fact that doctors were even treating guys taken from Avostal. But by most accounts the DPR militias are following orders. Killing POWs would not be that. Why does everyone assume that all the Azov guys were there? The most important may well be in Russia now.
This is the second time the camp has been attacked (artillery last time), and then the POWs said themselves it was Ukraine. Direction would be relatively east to fake, but the theory that there’s value to killing them now for Russia or even DPR is weak. As B says, they could have been dead any time. Russia was the first to invite the UN to the scene; why would it do so if it was a false flag?
There are power struggles going on both inside the Ukr government and the “Azov” movement. All these guys surrendered when they were supposed to be “fight to the death” and that looks bad. The POWs have said that in the last exchange, the UKR side refused everyone except Azov. You think regular Ukr army might not have feelings about that show of favoritism? And of course Azov was isolated in the camp. The Russians would prefer to show reasonable humanity to regular Ukr army and win them over. You can’t have the ideological Banderites mingling with them.
And yes, the US has every reason to kill Azov. Azov got the lion’s share of the training and gear from the US even after congress tried to ban supplying them twice. Azov singing about what they learned, got and who they met from the US is really dangerous to the US intelligence / military agencies. The US ok’d or helped the strike and you can tell because DoD decided to talk about it. They’re really bad liars.
Posted by: Lex | Aug 2 2022 21:35 utc | 93
@Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 2 2022 21:24 utc | 95
His crime was to kill white Europeans, Russians are white too but they are Slavs. His job was to deal with the Slavs once and for all, especially the communist Slavs - then create a new "empty" space for the Western colonizers. But he turned on the white European capitalists and didn't ally with Poland against the Soviets, so the Western Europeans went to war with him.
Notably when Japan was killing legions of Chinese the US and the West couldn't care less, only when the Japanese invaded French Indochina did the US slap an oil embargo on them. That oil embargo was the real start of US-Japan hostilities, with Pearl Harbour being the logical outcome for the Japanese (surrender was the only other one).
Cont’d from #93
Two videos of soldiers moving mines to the curb of the road in Donetsk during the night (a close-up of PFM-1 can be seen in the second video):
https://t.me/Soldierline/10321
Tanks clearing mines in Donetsk during the night:
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/58873?single
https://t.me/itsdonetsk/23993
Next morning Russian Army has sent in a demining robot, Uran-6:
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/58972
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/59071
An unintentional comedy that could have turned into a tragedy. An elderly couple has found a PFM-1, which they thought was a “fragment”. The old woman put it into her bag “to show to her coworkers” (PFM-1 requires ~5 kg of weight to trigger). Luckily, a guy who was helping warn people of the mines asked her to show the “fragment”, whereupon he asked her to carefully put it on the edge of the sidewalk. Video:
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/58959?single
Posted by: S | Aug 2 2022 21:44 utc | 95
Cont’d from #93
This is how a cassette of PFM-1’s looks (these photos are not from Donetsk): https://t.me/boris_rozhin/58872
And this is how a foot looks after stepping on PFM-1 (best case; in worst case, there is no foot): https://t.me/chp_donetsk_vdnr/25931?single
The Ukraine has about 4 million of PFM-1’s.
Posted by: S | Aug 2 2022 21:49 utc | 96
The narrative below comes from a staunch anti-Putin anti-Russian site the “Maidan Press”, it’s in English, you can click ‘home’ read some of the other stuff published there, this piece is about the missile attack on the Olenivka prison facility, it’s rather informative, it gives away the reason for the attack, but it also shows, if the narrative’s correct, that the Russians failed to secure the place, they were told the bombing may happen:
Posted by: Baron | Aug 2 2022 21:54 utc | 97
I read a thing recently about nuclear doctrine. Seems the US has a counter value one - hit cities - while Russia has a counter force - hit armies and threats - one. Made sense to me given that we hear about Hamburg, Dresden, Hiroshima, Ramallah etc. Asfaik there is no talk of similar stuff from Russia. So it looks like our side is the one wearing the black hats? Given all that I’m assuming that those bomblets were sprayed into Donetsk by NATO rather than by Ukrainians. Something it would be worthwhile shutting up captured prisoners about too, no?
Posted by: Mark Taiwan | Aug 2 2022 22:01 utc | 98
Many thanks to b for this examination of the latest warcrimes in Ukraine and to posters of informational comments on this thread. Among them, Leuk at 7 for excerpts from the French retired General Martinez, karlof1 at 29, John at 32 referencing the Farrell book and series from 2006 tracing Nazism. But especially karlof1 at 34 for Cynthia Chung's helpful Ukranian origins essay - I hadn't known about much that she documents, and beginning with the early Rus map was very enlightening.
The thread that traces down to the OUN and CIA involvement clarified for me how that organization can claim to be descended from early Kiev whilst following nazi tactics to 'purify' the Ukrainian race. It really is the story of Cain and Abel with a Ukrainian slant, both 'brothers' having survived and taken such different paths. So, again thanks, karlof1; I stand very much enlightened.
Posted by: juliania | Aug 2 2022 22:06 utc | 99
US Policy has always been De-population, destroy cities is highly
efficient.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Aug 2 2022 22:07 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
As Russia has similar mines, why not drop some behind retreating Ukrainian troops, or advancing, lots of reinforcements moving east....give them something to consider.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 2 2022 15:09 utc | 1