Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 20, 2022

Quality Of Ukraine Reporting Continues To Deteriorate

The news about the war in Ukraine is getting so fake that even an amateur can debunk it no time.

Consider this from the Washington Post:

Across the river from Ukraine nuclear plant, shelling adds to fear

In Nikopol, just two miles across the Dnieper River from the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, the threat of imminent nuclear catastrophe is compounded by daily shelling from Russian forces near the plant.

The real distance between the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant and Nikopol is 15 kilometers (9 miles) not "just 2 miles".


Source: LiveUAmap - bigger
Nikopol is too close to the plant for sirens to be of use — there’s no time to switch them on. Instead residents on the other side send warnings if they see artillery batteries being rolled out.

The well protected six reactor blocks of ZNPP can be seen in the upper left of the picture. The next civilian settlement is on the right side, some 2+ kilometers away from the plant with several big buildings between the two.


bigger

How anyone would see "artillery batteries being rolled out" at the plant is beyond me. The Russian side of course insists that there is no artillery at the ZNPP and that the Ukrainians are shelling the plant. Which makes sense as the plant is, since early March, under complete control of the Russian side.

This misreporting by the Washington Post comes after it published a big fake story about an alleged Russian intelligence failure at the beginning of the war:

Russia’s spies misread Ukraine and misled Kremlin as war loomed

Just consider this circular sourcing of the story:

In the final days before the invasion of Ukraine, Russia’s security service began sending cryptic instructions to informants in Kyiv. Pack up and get out of the capital, the Kremlin collaborators were told, but leave behind the keys to your homes.
...
The communications exposing these preparations are part of a larger trove of sensitive materials obtained by Ukrainian and other security services and reviewed by The Washington Post.
...
Ukraine’s security services have an interest in discrediting Russia’s spy agencies, but key details from the trove were corroborated by officials in Western governments.
...
Ukraine’s security agencies have scored notable victories. Early on, a Ukrainian nongovernmental organization published what it described as a roster of FSB operatives linked to the war effort, posting the identities and passport numbers of dozens of alleged spies in a move meant to disrupt the agency’s plans and rattle its personnel. A person connected to the NGO, which is called Myrotvorets, or Peacemaker, said the data was obtained by Ukraine’s security services. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing threats to his security.
...
Details published by Peacemaker and confirmed by Ukrainian security officials describe Kovalenko as a 47-year-old veteran of the spy service who in recent years was responsible for managing the agency’s clandestine ties to Ukraine’s parliament and main pro-Russian party.

The extremist rightwing  'NGO' Myrotvorets is not independent but run by the Ukrainian secret service. It is known for publishing 'kill lists' of alleged 'enemies of Ukraine':

The site reflects the work of NGO "Myrotvorets centre", led by a person only known with the alias "Roman Zaitsev", former employee of Luhansk Security Service of Ukraine office. The website is allegedly curated by the government law-enforcement and intelligence agency Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and was promoted by Advisor to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine Anton Gerashchenko. The identity of the staff is secret, and a hidden panel sifts through information, often collated from Open-source intelligence, as well as information provided by individuals on a confidential basis.
...
On 24 May 2016, Committee to Protect Journalists wrote an open letter to then Ukrainian President Poroshenko urging him to "condemn the unfounded and damaging allegations published on Myrotvorets, and to clarify publicly that the Ukrainian Interior Ministry is dedicated to protecting journalists and apprehending the people responsible for threatening them, in contrast to Interior Minister Avakov's previous statements".

On 2 June 2016, G7 ambassadors to Kyiv released a joint statement expressing deep concern about disclosures of journalists' personal data on the Myrotvorets website and called on the Myrotvorets team to withdraw personal data from public access.

Other such lists put out by the Ukrainian government accuse U.S. political scientists and journalists of pro-Russian disinformation.

The Myrotvorets, says the Washington Post, used "data" [that] "was obtained by Ukraine’s security services". Details published by it were then "confirmed by Ukrainian security officials". This was "corroborated by officials in Western governments" and "reviewed by The Washington Post".

That still means that the only source of that alleged 'data' are "Ukraine’s security services" which, as the Washington Post notes, "have an interest in discrediting Russia’s spy agencies".

That make the whole story about the alleged FSB failure a garbage in-garbage out product based on a sole source, the fantasies created by the Ukrainian secret services.

Which altogether tells you something about the 'quality' of Ukraine war reporting by the Washington Post.

Posted by b on August 20, 2022 at 11:12 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@ rk | Aug 20 2022 17:03 utc | 91

you are a fucking shit... you will be getting lost before i do..

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2022 17:05 utc | 92

Thank You James
Overdue.
b needs to weed out these 'folks'

Have a nice Sunday Sir

Posted by: ld | Aug 20 2022 17:33 utc | 101

The West considers applying NATOs Article 5 in response to possible accident at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant

Ukrainska Pravda
Sat, August 20, 2022 at 5:48 AM·1 min read
EUROPEAN PRAVDA – SATURDAY, 20 AUGUST 2022, 13:48
Tobias Ellwood, Chair of the Defense Select Committee at the House of Commons of the UK Parliament, has stated that if the Russians orchestrate a deliberate accident at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant with radiation outflow, it must be treated as an attack on NATO states.
Source: tweet by Ellwood on 19 August; European Pravda
Ellwood was commenting on media reports that according to the Ukrainian side, Russia is preparing the ground to accuse Ukraine of attacking the ZNPP.
Quote: "Let’s make it clear now: ANY deliberate damage causing potential radiation leak to a Ukrainian nuclear reactor would be a breach of NATO’s Article 5."
His stance was backed by Adam Kinzinger, a member of the House of Representatives of the US Congress from Illinois.
"That's 100% true. Not even discussed. Any leak will kill people in NATO countries, this is an automatic inclusion of Art. 5," he tweeted.
Background:
French president Emmanuel Macron had a phone call with Russian president Vladimir Putin yesterday for the first time after a three-month hiatus. They discussed the situation at the ZNPP.
Putin agreed that the IAEA mission could visit the ZNPP during the phone call with Macron.

Of course, the sources are questionable, but it all adds up if the shelling near or around the ZNPP site is a trap door to bring NATO forces directly into the conflict before Russia completely takes the Donbass and Southern Ukraine.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 20 2022 17:40 utc | 102

we lost ostro but got rk and rp instead.. either way it is annoying... rk/rp = ostro?
Posted by: james | Aug 20 2022 16:36 utc | 86

Yes, annoying as all hell, and with your comment @17:05 utc | 92 you have put on the record what I'm sure many of us think and feel.
Thanks a lot!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Aug 20 2022 17:42 utc | 103

Even as an old man I've spent the day outside working in -30. The lower temperatures mentioned above (-43) are a whole different world. And never occur in Ukraine.

RF has battalions that live and work routinely at -40 and see -20 as balmy. Send those battalions against ill prepared Ukrainian troops with frozen fingers and toes and US equipment that gave up a long time ago, that fight will end quickly. That is, if anywhere on the front ever even gets as far as -20 this season. And if a place calling itself Ukraine still exists.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 20 2022 17:52 utc | 104

LOL! FROM: HPSCI minority (2018)

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 20 2022 17:55 utc | 105

While the merry men in comments have nothing to say (being a doorman creates lots of free time), zelly shelled ZNPP again, damaged a building. Right now.

How does it look from a mall security level of geopolitics?

Posted by: rk | Aug 20 2022 17:56 utc | 106

Don Bacon @101--

Hi Don! Hope you're doing well; your playful jibe indicates you are. Thanks to being prepared, I shook the Covid quickly, but now the wife has it despite being vacced. Now we need to ensure we don't play badminton with it.

Yes of course, POTUS is CnC of Armed Forces, not civilians--you're tasked with knowing the Chain of Command when in the military from your squad leader to the prez. But you know that. Seems another batch of trolls hatched. Did you read my report comparing shipbuilding between Russia, China and USA? Putting a new facility at Kronstadt is a direct challenge to the Baltic crew wanting to shut down Russia's access. I got zero replies to my thought that Russia awaits the massed artillery attack on ZNPP so it can take out all those guns--Go ahead, make my day is the message to the punks, except Putin's guns are reloaded and ready.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 17:57 utc | 107

Posted by: RK | Aug 20 2022 14:30 utc | 47

"Of course, you do! You live off what you Brits have stolen from countries in Asia and Africa."

I do? Can't recall ever seeing any of that money personally. My great-grandparents lived in an East London slum crowded together with several other families in the same house.

So, RK. What's your nationality? I would like to attribute blame to you personally for everything the elites of your nation have done past and present, because that's fair...

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 18:01 utc | 108

Agreeing with the "MoA comments are deteriorating" sentiment from various longer-term posters. The articles are still worth looking for, but the signal-to-noise ratio in the comments is getting too low.

After having a couple posts with links to real, useful information deleted and being unable to post subsequent to that, I am taking a break from posting after this one.

We get finger-wagged for "feeding the trolls", but certain obvious misinfo-presenters seem to be invulnerable here. I'm tired of wading through endless Yenwoda et.al.-style posts to get to the valuable info responsible posters present. I get that there are wide variety of "opinions" here, but those opinions should be backed up by actual data/facts or arrived at by a logical analysis of often sparse, but compellingly indicative information. Genuinely held beliefs are fine, but in the end, the FACTS matter most.

The trolls can save their inevitable snarky, insipid responses. Or not, maybe b's ban-hammer might actually fall on them.

Genuine posters please don't respond to this either (assuming it says up). I already know there are many good people posting here, but I won't be looking at the comments to see them.

Posted by: Old canadian | Aug 20 2022 18:02 utc | 109

Regarding anonymous sources. I worked in journalism for 30 years off and on, mostly local but also for name authors.Using them is fine but all should be backed up by a second independent source or you don't use it. You stow it away in the back of your head for another day. This was once basic stuff.

Posted by: MEI | Aug 20 2022 18:04 utc | 110

Posted by: Lex | Aug 20 2022 15:45 utc | 67

"I love how Brits and Americans love to babble on about democracy but manage to also hold the belief that democracy does not confer responsibility."

Did I say that? No, so why put words in my mouth?

"I don’t believe in western democracy. I still know that I am responsible for what is done in my name to some degree. How can it be otherwise?"

If you want to take responsibility for actions done by others that you have zero control over, be my guest. I'm not going to.

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 18:05 utc | 111

Personally, I also believe that Russia is interested in the subject of nuclear power plants and that this putsch is partly self-contained.
Possibly Putin wants to lure NATO (USA) into a trap of having to show themselves openly on the battlefield and to leave cover?

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 20 2022 18:07 utc | 112

Posted by: SUSAN | Aug 20 2022 14:25 utc | 45
"Well coming from the US the answer to your question is easy. DO SOMETHING...Start fighting to rid yourself of the witch and her spawn then throw the rest of your government out."

Yeah, excuse me while I just nip out and overthrow the UK elite...

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 18:08 utc | 113

Posted by: Lex | Aug 20 2022 15:45 utc | 67

Thanks for this comment : the lazy self satisfied shucking of responsibilty, the so called common man complaint that it's not my fault, I didn't do it, reveals the feebleness of mind brought about by living in these so called democracies that are not, and reveals just how cheaply they have been bought off

Perhaps this winter's hardships will wake them up, perhaps they will realise that they have only themselves to blame

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 20 2022 18:16 utc | 114

"Russian President Vladimir Putin has agreed that a team of independent inspectors can travel to the Moscow-occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant via Ukraine"

According to French President Emmanuel Macron’s office on Friday, Putin “reconsidered the demand” that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) travel through Russia to the site, after the Russian leader himself warned fighting there could bring about a “catastrophe”."
(Aljazeera 19th august.)


Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Aug 20 2022 18:17 utc | 115

Posted by: Gerrard White | Aug 20 2022 18:16 utc | 116

You are absolutely right, Gerrard.

You know what? I am to blame. All I had to do was give my Prime Minister a phone call and ask him to change British foreign policy.

I'm kicking myself that I didn't think of that before as I could have prevented my gas bill doubling.

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 18:27 utc | 116

... but it all adds up if the shelling near or around the ZNPP site is a trap door to bring NATO forces directly into the conflict before Russia completely takes the Donbass and Southern Ukraine.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 20 2022 17:40 utc | 104

I think you have it there: RF is about to break the back of NATO proxy forces, ultimately taking the whole coast, complete, propaganda-vaporising defeat looms, so mighty distraction squirrels are being conjured from the depths of our collective nuclear nightmares.

The way the attacks on ZNPP have escalated and the way western ghouls are positioning themselves suggests that this is really about saving coastal access for UA’s new plantation overlords, rather than UA keeping ZNPP for power generation.

There’s also the possibility that nuclear material has been diverted from ZNPP to a clandestine nuke program, and that an independent audit might demonstrate as much, just to add some spice to to the whole dish.

Posted by: anon2020 | Aug 20 2022 18:29 utc | 117

re: democracy and endless war
The common definition is governance by the people, usually via their representatives.
So when the US claims to be a democracy, as it does, it is implying that citizens are getting what they asked for, which of course is malarkey.
But dig a little deeper - the US never says the people asked for endless war. In fact congress-critters regularly state that they must convince the citizenry that they 'don't get it', and it is their duty to convince the citizens that what they are doing is the best thing. They get it backwards because they are paid to do so.
The US administration never outwardly claims that their war policies have been mandated by the people. What they do claim is that elections define democracy. Of course we know that whomever is elected depends upon corporate funds for re-election, as most of them are, and war is profitable, and so elections are no sign of anything except as a ruse to pacify the public.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 20 2022 18:32 utc | 118

Strangely, the WaPo is correct that the distance between Nikopol and the Zaporizhzhia nuclear station is two miles, but only if you measure it in German/Prussian miles, which are 7.5 km each.

The only other place I've seen that obsolete measurement system was in Berlin - on a sign from the Kaiser era that gave the distance to the city centre.

Posted by: Brendan | Aug 20 2022 18:33 utc | 119

Personally, I also believe that Russia is interested in the subject of nuclear power plants and that this putsch is partly self-contained.
Possibly Putin wants to lure NATO (USA) into a trap of having to show themselves openly on the battlefield and to leave cover?

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 20 2022 18:07 utc | 114
--

Sending arms and ammunition, on lend-lease or even somewhat free is not exactly joining in the war, so its much better to lure US/NATO in to a trap. Most of the anglo-saxons are pretty foolish in their thinking, that they are always right, that they are super-duper. That's why they cannot think straight. From the start of the SMO, the US/NATO and the unfriendlies lost the war. The next panic button is pushed by Gazprom again. The dangerous days are 31st August to 2nd September. Russia/Gazprom is hitting Germany directly.

The Zaporozhiye NPP matter started from 18th July. and, it is pulling NATO in -- "show your hand."

Posted by: rp | Aug 20 2022 18:46 utc | 120

https://www.stalkerzone.org/they-in-ukraine-will-not-live-as-well-as-they-did-under-the-ukrainian-soviet-socialist-republic-for-a-long-time/

The Ukrainian economy, which until 1991 was one of the most developed in Europe, no longer exists. The population is left to fend for itself.

https://www.stalkerzone.org/an-unpleasant-surprise-awaits-the-west/

https://www.stalkerzone.org/why-russia-doesnt-respond-to-the-shelling-of-border-cities-with-a-strike-on-kiev-why-we-dont-destroy-those-who-shell-the-zaporozhye-nuclear-power-plant/

https://www.stalkerzone.org/new-russia-instead-of-anti-russia-what-is-beyond-the-roller-of-demilitarisation-denazification/

The fact that “the whole civilised world” is so furious about our Special Operation is absolutely clear to me: I have seen with my own eyes the unimaginably richest lands, endless fields with excellent wheat and huge sunflowers larger than the Kuban (!). I saw Europe’s largest Zaporozhye nuclear power plant, saw Akhmetov’s plants in Mariupol and Melitopol, and saw firsthand the huge economic potential coming to Russia.

It is not Ukraine that has lost this potential, but the Anglo-Saxons and some “Europeans” have lost it — they have lost it.
And Russia has acquired – that’s what the point is, that’s what the “essence of the current moment” is! Well, in general – the anti-Russia project is collapsing…

https://www.stalkerzone.org/silence-social-media-fifth-column-deafening/

https://www.stalkerzone.org/in-latvia-sympathy-not-only-for-putin-but-also-for-pushkin-has-become-a-crime/

Get A Broader Picture:
https://twitter.censors.us/Navsteva
https://twitter.censors.us/GeromanAT
https://twitter.censors.us/RWApodcast
https://twitter.censors.us/jaccocharite

Russian-American in Russia
https://halfreeman.wordpress.com/

Posted by: MD | Aug 20 2022 18:50 utc | 121

Catherine Austin Fitts has publicly claimed CIA bought WaPo with Bezos money.
CIA made Bezos with a big contract when he was a derided e-commerce book seller.
fyi, CA Fitts survived a prolonged gov attempt to destroy her when she challenged the money laundering @ HUD.

Posted by: blp | Aug 20 2022 19:02 utc | 122

The MFA has posted the transcript of a very important interview with Deputy Foreign Minister Pankin that reviews the current state of dedollarization, efforts at forming a new international commerce regime, and the energy and sanction situation. I've posted the machine translation of that transcript here since it's off topic to this thread. Yes, it's long and detailed showing much is being accomplished but much remains to be done. I've also posted it as an article to my VK wall for reference.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 19:04 utc | 123

LtGen Hodges, former commander, US Army Europe, has determined that Russian defeat in Ukraine is inevitable, so you know Russia is on the right track. (US army generals have been notably unsuccessful.) . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 20 2022 19:10 utc | 124

https://twitter.com/enfree1993/status/1561023145167179776

From a new statement by the RF Ministry of Defense: The Russian military, who performed tasks in the Zaporozhye region, were taken to the hospital with signs of severe poisoning; The Zelensky regime has authorized chemical attacks against the Russian military;

Botulinum toxin type "B" was used against the Armed Forces of the RFin the Zaporozhye region; Russian military doctors confirmed the presence of artificial poison in the body of hospitalized servicemen;Russia will send evidence of chemical terrorism of the Kyiv regime to the OPCW

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 20 2022 19:21 utc | 125

Personally, I also believe that Russia is interested in the subject of nuclear power plants and that this putsch is partly self-contained.
Possibly Putin wants to lure NATO (USA) into a trap of having to show themselves openly on the battlefield and to leave cover?

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 20 2022 18:07 utc | 114


I'm sure that the US will not put their forces on the ground in Ukraine, or anywhere that they are not assured of a victory against armies like sandaled clad peasants in Vietnam or sheep herders in Afghanistan. But the expanded NATO is full of willing proxies who will become their cannon fodder.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 20 2022 19:21 utc | 126

Cant find one winter offensive operation in the Ukraine in WWII. A few actually ended the first day of winter. One ran past the first day of winter by a few days. I would expect things to be wrapped up for the year by Christmas. A new spring will bring new problems.

Operation Barbarossa 22 Jun 1941 - 30 Sep 1941
Siege of Odessa 8 Aug 1941 - 16 Oct 1941
First Battle of Kharkov 20 Oct 1941 - 24 Oct 1941
Second Battle of Kharkov 12 May 1942 - 28 May 1942
Third Battle of Kharkov 16 Feb 1943 - 15 Mar 1943
Fourth Battle of Kharkov 12 Aug 1943 - 23 Aug 1943
Battle of Kiev 3 Nov 1943 - 10 Dec 1943
Operation Frantic 2 Jun 1944 - 22 Sep 1944
Operation Bagration 22 Jun 1944 - 29 Aug 1944

Chernigov-Poltava Strategic Offensive 26 August 1943 – 30 September 1943
Chernigov-Pripyet Offensive 26 August – 30 September 1943
Sumy-Priluki Offensive 26 August – 30 September 1943
Poltava-Kremenchug Offensive 26 August – 30 September 1943
Lower Dnieper Offensive 26 September – 20 December 1943
Melitopol Offensive 26 September – 5 November 1943
Zaporizhia Offensive 10–14 October 1943
Kremenchug-Pyatikhatki Offensive 15 October – 3 November 1943
Dnepropetrovsk Offensive 23 October – 23 December 1943
Krivoi Rog Offensive 14–21 November 1943
Apostolovo Offensive 14 November – 23 December 1943
Nikopol Offensive 14 November – 31 December 1943
Aleksandriia-Znamenka Offensive 22 November – 9 December 1943
Krivoi Rog Offensive 10–19 December 1943
Kiev Strategic Offensive (November 1943) 3–13 November 1943
Kiev Strategic Defensive (1943) 13 November – 22 December 1943

I did eventually find a few dead of winter campaigns in wiki but I do not have time to vet them...
Strategic operations of the Red Army in World War II

Posted by: circumspect | Aug 20 2022 19:23 utc | 127

Shelling an active nuclear power plant is clearly a crime against humanity and should be condemned in the strongest possible terms and the perpetrators denounced.
@ Pnyx | Aug 20 2022 15:06 utc | 57

My tax dollars at work!

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 20 2022 19:26 utc | 128

Seeing these titles of Russians supposedly firing at their own installations is as nauseating as people in my environment regurgitating these fallacies because they're fed every single hour day in and day out with it and still think they're informed critical thinkers instead of the misinformed ignorant dupes that they are. Some British MP (Tobias Ellwood) has the audacity to claim that if the Zaporizhzhia NPP is damaged by (Ukrainians/Brits/US blamed on) Russia that NATO chapter 5 can be invoked as the radiation clouds would obviously cross into NATO member countries. It's these kind of privileged clowns who'll be the first to squat doomsday bunkers while the plebeian misinformed ignorant dupes cheering another installment of a genderless toilet get roasted in Mutual Assured Destruction. In a sane world "journalists" writing and telling these fallacies would at best loose their job.

Posted by: xor | Aug 20 2022 19:33 utc | 129

LtGen Hodges, former commander, US Army Europe, has determined that Russian defeat in Ukraine is inevitable, so you know Russia is on the right track. (US army generals have been notably unsuccessful.) . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 20 2022 19:10 utc | 126

Successful at what? I am sure you meant that tongue in cheek. The US has not had a victory since WW2. Well, except in Grenada and arresting Pineapple face in Panam (killing about 1300 civilians in the process).

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 20 2022 19:36 utc | 130

Yeah, mainstream media still reports that Odessa, Kharkiv; Dnepropetrovsk are all still in Ukrainian hands...

Posted by: Peter Luria | Aug 20 2022 19:40 utc | 131

I am very happy to see that I am not the only one who has stopped reading or viewing the MSM propaganda. I don't even read the headlines. I love facts, and rhetoric is not my favorite activity. Obviously the purpose of politicians and activists is to make their own dreams come true and one preferred propaganda device to achieve that aim are the Big Lies and the false flags. An example of a Big Lie was Colin Powell testimony at the UN security vouncil to rally countries for the invasion of Iraq. Fortunately my memory helps me to recognize that kind of propaganda and there is so much of it in the MSM that it hss becomd a pain to follow the official narratives.

Posted by: Richsrd L | Aug 20 2022 19:41 utc | 132

karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 17:57 utc | 109

Re the attacks on the NPP. I recall statements by US UK ect early on about possible Russian use of nukes or chemical warfare. Like the west intended a major false flag either to bring in sanctions or take the west into direct war with Russia. Same sort of noises now re Guernica | Aug 20 2022 17:40 utc | 104 comment.

US and UK have lost in Ukraine so what will they do? Sneak away and declare victory or double down? According to Rus MoD, its the cooling tanks/spent fuel storage area they have tried for which will create a limited contamination zone. I guess a dirty bomb warhead would do something similar. UK also wants to keep the US fully focused on Russia rather than getting sidetracked by China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 19:49 utc | 133

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 18:05 utc | 113

I’m not sorry I offended your well cultivated sense of innocence. Because it’s bullshit. You can’t have it both ways and you are responsible for the actions of your government. You can still be responsible even if you’re against their behavior. Have you payed taxes, voted for anyone in the last 30 years, enjoyed the economic fruits of your country’s foreign policy (even the crumbs), etc? Then you’ve got responsibility. The only out is leaving the country and renouncing citizenship or actively trying to overthrow the government. You’re not as responsible as Joe Biden or Victoria Nuland, but you have responsibility for them having the power they do. Or, again, actively attempt to overthrow the authoritarian order. You ain’t doing that in a comment section.

Posted by: Lex | Aug 20 2022 19:51 utc | 134

"This is a war of propaganda" --John Pilger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9pEotvlW-s

Posted by: Smooth | Aug 20 2022 20:01 utc | 135

Reuters is reporting that Russia missiles have injured 12 near the nuke plant.....blatant lie because why would Russia hurt its own troops that control/defend the nuke plant?

Empire of Lies cannot end soon enough for me.....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 20 2022 20:01 utc | 136

The U.S. is exceptional. All other countries have to fight the wars they can afford but the U.S. can fight multiple wars it cannot afford without consequence due to the exorbitant benefit of the world reserve currency. The ability to print limitless monopoly money and export the inflation to the rest of the world is, exceptional. This fraudulent financialization is the foundation of U.S. power. The purpose of war for every country except the U.S. is to win or the consequences are dire for the loser. The purpose of war for the U.S. is NOT to win but instead have a long protracted conflict, the resolution of which is irrelevant. Win or lose the purpose of war for the U.S. is the exponential creation of debt without which the debt based financial system would collapse, the very system that is the power of the U.S. empire. This is exceptional. As I mentioned earlier the consequences of losing a war is dire for the defeated but the U.S. has made sport of losing wars. No country in history has lost more wars than the U.S. and yet in no way is the U.S. diminished in it's ability to wage war, never lost territory or sustain damage. This is exceptional. This debt based system is ending and with it, U.S. exceptionalism but until then this is the most dangerous time in history for Russia, China and Iran and they know it.

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Aug 20 2022 20:02 utc | 137

Lex | Aug 20 2022 19:51 utc | 136

Whoever controls the media controls the people. There can be no overthrow of government or revolution of any sort without taking control of or destroying the influence of mass media. Western media is controlled by US and UK deep states. About all that can be done is sit back and enjoy the cruise on the Titanic, perhaps get a lifeboat ready for family.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 20:04 utc | 138

@ Lex | Aug 20 2022 19:51 utc | 136
Then you’ve got responsibility.
No, US citizens have no way to influence US government decisions and therefore bear no responsibility. Democracy is defined as governance by the people, but there are no mechanisms to facilitate that, in these days of rampant communications. Can you imagine a referendum allowed to the people to vote on endless war?. . .never happen.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 20 2022 20:06 utc | 139

psychohistorian | Aug 20 2022 20:01 utc | 138

I looked that one up earlier The town where the strike allegedly occurred is not far off the South Ukraine NPP. perhaps 15-20km away

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 20:07 utc | 140

@ PavewayIV | Aug 20 2022 14:38 utc | 50

thanks for the translation of that letter from yesterdays thread...

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2022 16:37 utc | 87


It's not! Just an article of Focus [German newspaper]
I tried to post the full translation, unfortunately, it was somewhere "stuck in the mud"

Posted by: Weimar | Aug 20 2022 20:09 utc | 141

Lex, you haven't offended me as you are a clown.

I'm responsible as I pay taxes that are automatically deducted from my pay without my say so?

I should go start a revolution?

You are ridiculous.

Posted by: evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 20:11 utc | 142

Venice 12@88 and others who have posted about Larouche

Based upon my observations on US in 70’s and on, one should use caution about anything from Larouchies. Their practice had all the earmarks of a state security program. Larouche went by the moniker ‘LynnMarcus’ (Lenin-Marx—get it?) for years. They at one time claimed nuclear desalinization plants in the Sahara would save the world. Caveat emptor, is all I’m saying

Posted by: Mjh | Aug 20 2022 20:14 utc | 143

I haven't hung around long or faithfully enough to evaluate comparative thread qualities -- i.e. whether or not the quality of discourse here in MoA threads has "declined". But I have a couple of observations on that theme:

(1) So far as I'm able to determine with my ancient hardware and feeble search skills, these threads have been, far and away, the most intensive source of reliable info on NATO shelling of the Zaporizhzhia NPP -- an ongoing war-crime of breathtaking proportions.

(2) For my part, I miss RSH's sincerity & sobriety. I know my sentiment is not shared by all.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 20 2022 20:14 utc | 144

@ Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 20:07 utc | 142 with the update to my Reuters headline

Thanks

So, their "....near nuclear plant is Southern Ukraine" claim lets them off the hook for truthiness?

As others have noted, its all about ongoing control of the narrative....the shadows on Plato's Cave walls

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 20 2022 20:15 utc | 145

@ james, Karlof1 and many barflies.

I posted yesterday in UkraineOT about a letter of Handwerkerkammer Halle [Germany, ex DDR].

Ce full letter is translated here:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/08/ukraine-open-thread-2022-135.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02a308dbe6d4200c#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02a308dbe6d4200c

You can read the original PDF of the letter [in german] here:
https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?p=87080

Posted by: Weimar | Aug 20 2022 20:22 utc | 146

The US/UK/NATTO/IS have no clue as to what is going to happen next after the Russia/LPR/DPR/Chechens have cleansed the Donbass and the surrounding areas of the UAF. They likely expect the Russian army to deploy over the vast plains of Central Ukraine and become vulnerable to a NATO counter attack and NATO is possibly preparing for that opportunity. They can use the vulnerability and potential damage associated to nuclear reactors to justify a NATO counter offensive using MSM propaganda as we see it happening right now.

If they believe their own MSM narrative, the Western politicians may feel that Russia is just a paper tiger and that the Westetn armies now have the perfect opportunity to defeat the Russians on the ground in Ukraine.

Posted by: Richard L | Aug 20 2022 20:25 utc | 147

@ Weimar | Aug 20 2022 20:09 utc | 143

thanks weimar.. i appreciate it... it is on the other thread.. i thought it was the same as @50 paveways post, but i will look again..

Posted by: james | Aug 20 2022 20:32 utc | 148

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/08/18/ukraine-veterans-us-aid-soldiers-war/

…In 10 days, 15 soldiers died here, all from shelling and shrapnel. I asked the commander if we could bring some heavy equipment to build a better bunker and he refused, because he said the Russian shelling could damage the equipment. Does he not care that 15 of our soldiers died here?”

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 20 2022 20:41 utc | 149

I should go start a revolution?
You are ridiculous.

@ evilsooty999 | Aug 20 2022 20:11 utc | 144

Probably just young -- maybe forever young...

Historical and literary explorations of mine, lately, keep landing me in Wobbly territory. More than a hundred years ago, in USA, police-state goons exerted extraordinary brutality to crush the concept of one union for all the workers of the whole world: the IWW. Sparklers of that abortive revolution, such as Big Bill Haywood and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, were incredibly young.

But maybe they were right, way back when, that worker solidarity is the only way to cut through nation-state babelization -- from colonial constitutions deployed to bind us. If the fury of the state's response is an accurate measure of IWW's threat, their line is the most dangerous thing out there, along with any vestige of America's original inhabitants.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 20 2022 20:41 utc | 150

Just want to point out, in case it's not common knowledge, that Myrotvorets lists its dual-address as Warsaw & Langley VA.

Posted by: cook | Aug 20 2022 20:42 utc | 151

I’m not sorry I offended your well cultivated sense of innocence. Because it’s bullshit. You can’t have it both ways and you are responsible for the actions of your government. You can still be responsible even if you’re against their behavior.

Posted by: Lex | Aug 20 2022 19:51 utc | 136

What kind of BS bafflegab is that? I suggest you look up the meaning of the words "responsible", "accountable", "liable" and "culpable" in their legal sense. In an indirect democracy, the citizens, whether they vote or not, are not any of the above, unless they are involved in the administration of government policy. The culpability rests with the politicians and the officials paid to develop and administer policy.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 20 2022 20:44 utc | 152

Extremely early reports so keep an eye on this and be aware that situation may evolve and be clarified in significant ways. Hopefully, it's not as serious as it sounds. Albania is a member of NATO:

https://twitter.com/Petrit/status/1561083355512197120

Posted by: Yenwoda | Aug 20 2022 20:50 utc | 153

james | Aug 20 2022 16:37 utc | 87 Re: "thanks for the translation of that letter from yesterdays thread..."

Apologies to all. I did not read yesterday's Ukraine thread or see Weimar's two posts about the letter here and here. Weimar: Your translation was fine - I just randomly stumbled on a site with the letter's full text in German. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to "The Halle-Saalekreis district trade association in Saxony-Anhalt". Does that have any significance that adds to the letter? Not that it matters - I'm reading it as "working people/craftsmen" in Germany. That is, not politicians, bureaucrats or corporate businessmen.

The content of the letter is what got my interest. I'm glad somebody has a measure of sense in Germany. If I only had the U.S. mainstream media for reference, I would think all Germans are slavishly devoted to sacrificing all of Germany's economy for the insane US/NATO pathological hatred of the Russian state.

I realize the U.S. is responsible for driving the bus off a cliff, here. What I cannot understand is how willingly the NATO vassal states have climbed aboard despite knowing where the bus is headed. Germany certainly has a lot, if not the most to lose. In some imaginary alternate universe, I can picture a strong German leader saying "F#*% the U.S." and doing what's best for Germany.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 20 2022 20:53 utc | 154

Peter AU @ 135

I don't have specifics for how large or how crowded the spent fuel pool(s) is at Zaporhizia. Regardless, it is not about a "limited contamination zone". Potentially a dry spent fuel pool could be an accident orders of magnitude greater than Chernobyl. Involving entire European continent. Including Moscow.

Either RF has knowledge that the Ukes just do not have the instruments that could cause a full scale breach or their PR operation is even worse than known. Puzzling to me why they have not gone further to suppress fire, just as it is puzzling that Donetsk city is still under fire.

The Ukes and their controllers have gone completely psychotic. There are still reactors in western Ukraine. Chernobyl is still there, no reason to expect restraint just because another Chernobyl accident could destroy Kiev.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 20 2022 20:54 utc | 155

On 31/08/2022, the only working Trent 60 gas compressor unit will be shut down for three days for maintenance and preventive maintenance.

A set of routine maintenance under the current maintenance contract will be carried out jointly with Siemens specialists.

In accordance with the technical documentation of Siemens, every 1000 hours it is necessary to carry out maintenance of the unit, which includes: inspection of the casing for cracks, dents, deformations, burn marks, cleaning of the casing; inspection of oil supply systems, air, removal of combustion gases for leaks, broaching of connections and elimination of causes of leaks; Checking the operation of safety valves and adjusting the air flow control system.

For the maintenance period of the GPA Trent 60 DLE from 31/08/2022 to 02/09/2022, gas transportation through the Nord Stream gas pipeline will be suspended for three days.

Upon completion of work and the absence of technical malfunctions of the unit, gas transportation will be restored to the level of 33 million cubic meters per day.

- Gazprom officially informs on the 19th August.
------

Siemens has to carry out the maintenance, and upon completion of work and the absence of technical malfunctions of the unit, gas transportation will be restored

Germany, it's traffic light coalition and the German EU chief VD Leyen has 11 days to think it over (already one day had gone). Panic button is on and winter is coming.

Posted by: rp | Aug 20 2022 21:01 utc | 156

Gepostet von: PavewayIV | 20. August 2022 20:53 UTC | 156
.
This open letter comes from the Saxony-Anhalt trade association ergo all business people!
The mood in eastern Germany is currently tense, the interior minister openly warned of riots on TV.
The atmosphere in Germany is far from being so peaceful, no one believes the published surveys on sanctions and arms deliveries anymore, all of the people know that the USA is putting pressure on German politics! It's just like the days of the communists here, no one says it out loud

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 20 2022 21:09 utc | 157

Gazprom also informed a few days ago,

Gas exports to China are growing via the Power of Siberia gas pipeline under a bilateral long-term contract between Gazprom and CNPC. Deliveries regularly go beyond the daily contract quantities.

Posted by: rp | Aug 20 2022 21:10 utc | 158

Not to everyone but from all business people !!
from

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 20 2022 21:11 utc | 159

I'd like to think my essays on Plunder sparked the muse for this writer's piece that RT published, "Colonialism 2.0: How US and UK take what they want from 'lesser powers': In the name of sanctions, geopolitical interests or the so-called 'rules-based order', colonial powers do what they do best – plunder those they see as weak and insubordinate." Daniel Kovalik's the author and lives like me within the Beast. I've read his work before. Unlike other US-based writers, he refuses to be silenced.

If the polls are to be believed, a majority of the citizenry oppose Biden's policies such that he'd be subject to a No Confidence vote if our system was different. IMO, the UK shows just how putrid the Western political systems are. And the He said She said bickering over responsibility only serves the oligarchy and impedes the discourse.

Media personalities protest Griner's imprisonment but have nothing to say about the case of Alex Saab, whose plight Kovalik writes about. She entrapped herself, while Saab was kidnapped and imprisoned.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 21:14 utc | 160

Posted by: RK | Aug 20 2022 14:30 utc | 47

Of course, you do!
You live off what you Brits have stolen from countries in Asia nd Africa.

It is not Brits against the rest. It is rich vs. poor.

Always has been. Always will be.

Posted by: Nobody | Aug 20 2022 21:17 utc | 161

Gazprom also informed...

Posted by: rp | Aug 20 2022 21:10 utc | 160

LARPing USSR a bit - https://t.me/kukufffka/600

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 20 2022 21:19 utc | 162

Weimar | Aug 20 2022 20:09 utc | 143, 148 - I just saw these posts of yours several minutes after I wrote 156, probably confusing the situation even more. Sorry again, Weimar. So the translation I posted today is NOT the actual text of the original letter, just the letter as paraphrased by Focus. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 20 2022 21:21 utc | 163

@ PavewayIV | Aug 20 2022 20:53 utc | 156

Very important!

Yes, "The Halle-Saalekreis district trade association in Saxony-Anhalt" is something really important.
Part of Germany co-management between politics and economics


The state has delegated sovereign tasks to the Chamber of Crafts. The Chamber of Crafts is responsible for managing the register of crafts and apprentices. [...]
As a representative of the interests of 13,322 member companies with 65,000 employees (as of December 2021), we are committed to improving the economic and social framework conditions for the skilled trades. In continuous dialogue with politicians, authorities and interest groups at municipal and state level, [...]
Every seventh person in our region works in the skilled trades. The Chamber of Crafts represents the interests of craftsmen in southern Saxony-Anhalt, advises and informs its members in a professional and practical manner.

You can read in auto-translation
https://hwkhalle.de/informationen-zur-handwerkskammer/

Posted by: Weimar | Aug 20 2022 21:22 utc | 164

@ PavewayIV | Aug 20 2022 21:21 utc | 166
👍

Posted by: Weimar | Aug 20 2022 21:24 utc | 165

Ok let’s hear it Lex. How are you going about effectively fighting The Man?

Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 20 2022 21:24 utc | 166

WP based on its rating is beating that not many with real know and intellect will read their BS, and a few like b that read and refute their BS they already know their BS, so it will make no difference even if they post the WP’s bs propaganda reporting. By printing and putting up this BS at Bezos expense CIA is getting a free daily newsletter published. See that is working for everybody, CIA is getting a free daily news letter for his employees, at the same time pissing off me and you on daily bases, pentagon feels its OK at the expense of middle class Americans to ask and get more weapons, weapon manufacturers will keep making junk, and European becoming more dependent since they shut the door on themselves, Etc. The sheeples in this country are not seeing what is been done to them so they are not demanding, but I bet once they become real woke this will be bloody.

Posted by: Kooshy | Aug 20 2022 21:26 utc | 167

oldhippie | Aug 20 2022 20:54 utc | 157

Thge mod briefing on the NPP I machine translated and posted here. I don't now enough about the nuke stuff to comment on the briefing other than Russia believes the US/UK is trying to cause a contamination zone.
https://vk.com/@739151204-kirillov-zaporozhye-npp-attacks

I think it is a particularly dangerous time now for a major false flag wit US/UK losing in every sphere - global information war, economically, and kinetic. Ukraine's military forces are nearly spent and will likely start collapsing in the not to distant future. Asia Africa, China ect turning more to Russia rather than moving away, and total failure of the economic war on Russia's economy. To the contrary UK and European economies will likely collapse this winter.

Matyanov has a piece on US elite desperation. Particularly in relation to the war crimes that Russia is keeping track of.

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/08/it-is-not-accidental.html
For the US "elite" which has zero experience with Nuremberg Trials and crimes against humanity committed by German Nazism, it seems inconceivable that at some point of time they can get charged as war criminals, which many of them are, and get revenge served to them cold. Some, however, do get it either on intellectual or emotional level, hence absolutely fanatical and desperate attempts in trying to keep Kiev regime afloat by pumping it with weapons and "volunteers" and, surprise-surprise, being, in fact, in direct command and control of VSU or, rather, whatever is left of it. One of the major drivers behind all this irrational and, incompetent, behavior is recognition by some of the immediate future the United States faces economically, which also translates into the further decomposition of America's governmental institutions

I guess a lot depends on just how desperate the US/UK powers that be are. Even if Russia has sufficient defences to fend off a major artillery barrage, it wouldn't be hard to detonate a dirty bomb in the air somewhere in the vicinity of the plant. One thing that been missing in this war to date is the white helmet style false flags. Just have to wait and see I guess.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 21:31 utc | 168

Reported that Alexander Dugin's daughter's car was blown up near Moscow.
https://t.me/OpenUkraine/24565.

Posted by: SCan | Aug 20 2022 21:33 utc | 169

mac998 | Aug 20 2022 21:09 utc | 159 - Re: "all business people" So they're a commercial (business) trade association then, and not like a craft trade union or guild. My mistake. Would the average, everyday working German tend to agree with that sentiment then, even if they didn't say so?

I'm actually more intrigued that this is happening in the old East Germany region. Who better to recognize reality and dismiss irrational government statements than people who had to endure years of 'the truth' narratives from the Soviets and Pravda. And enduring myth in the U.S. (and probably the west, in general) is that Russians were easily brainwashed by Soviet-times propaganda. My experience: I have never really met a people that were so suspicious of government statements and mass media than the Russians. So much so that it makes western audiences - at least in the U.S. - seem terribly naïve to so blindly trust 'authority'.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 20 2022 21:34 utc | 170

The Ukraine proxy war is a money laundering operation for Western oligarchs and US political dynasty families. The propaganda that Ukraine is winning is aimed at the American public so they don't demand to stop throwing good money after bad. The role of Western media is to keep gravy train flowing.

Posted by: Willow | Aug 20 2022 21:36 utc | 171

I can picture a strong German leader saying "F#*% the U.S." and doing what's best for Germany.

Posted by: PavewayIV

Recall how Snowden revealed that Obama was inside merkel’s personal phone and consider how blackmail could be conceivable

Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 20 2022 21:38 utc | 172

Weimar | Aug 20 2022 21:22 utc | 167 - OK, I understand. I'll just stop posting for a bit - I'm turning the Whiskey Bar into Twitter [sigh...]

Posted by: PavwayIV | Aug 20 2022 21:38 utc | 173

Smoothie's idea about deadly fear in DC and Tower would only be substantiated, for me, if those rulers are actually servants, executive managers, and if they fail to push Russia back - they would be thrown under bus by their true masters. In "overlived your usefulnes" Evil Overlord fashion.

Because Russia - even if it somehow manage to occupy East Europe up to COMECOM borders - still won't threaten them in UK and/or US.

Nuremberg trials happenned after Soviet tanks went into Berlin, not instead.

Malaysia did help war crime trial - and no one batted an eye.
If anglo-saxon elites really fear for their lives - they fear not Moscow and Putin, but something else.

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 20 2022 21:40 utc | 174

Russian media are reporting that a car exploded in Moscow oblast; allegedly, Darya Dugina, Alexander Dugin's daughter, was driving and that she died on the spot. No official confirmation at this point, also no information on the cause of the explosion. RWA

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 20 2022 21:45 utc | 175

Gepostet von: PavewayIV | 20. August 2022 21:34 UTC | 173
.
Rely on the fact that the older people in East Germany know this probaganda in the media. Don't believe anything anymore when EVERYONE starts reporting the same word for word, then people should always be very attentive!
Unfortunately, people in the west of the country are much more religious when it comes to TV and the press !

Posted by: mac999 | Aug 20 2022 21:50 utc | 176

Quality Of Ukraine Reporting German Reliability Continues To Deteriorate

Most of cereal leaving the ports of Ukraine heading to.... EU!
And now LNG too.

Just Plunder If You Can! But as Karlof1 post on his VK post 08.15.22



When plunder becomes a way of life, men create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it. “Economic Sophisms," 1848, Frédéric Bastiat

India received its first import of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Russia’s Yamal LNG project over the weekend 10.27.2021
https://ngsindia.org/news/india-receives-first-direct-lng-cargo-from-russias-yamal-lng-project/
But Yamal LNG since August does not reach India
https://oopstop.com/yamal-lng-does-not-reach-india-eadaily-august-2-2022-politics-news-russia-news/?amp=1

The Indian energy giant Gail is forced to reduce gas supplies in the country, as it does not receive the contracted volumes of Yamal LNG. On behalf of Gazprom, the buyer and supplier is Gazprom Marketing and Trading Singapore (GM&T Singapore), which the German government took control of in early April. Judging by the data of the navigation portals and monitoring platforms of the EU, the volumes from the Yamal LNG project may go to Germany, where supplies of Russian pipeline gas have been reduced due to Nord Stream.

Posted by: Weimar | Aug 20 2022 21:53 utc | 177

Arioch | Aug 20 2022 21:40 utc | 177

What protection would those elites have after their country collapses around them, perhaps with social unrest that turns on them. UK and Europe are facing that now. US perhaps a little further away but how many allies will the US have if Europe and UK turn into basket cases. Western economies are interconnected so Europe and UK going down will likely take the US economy with it.
It is highly likely to be a very different world in the not too distant future and those names Russia has been noting down will go on international wanted lists.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 21:56 utc | 178

The WaPo truly is the paper of the state intelligence services.

Posted by: Meredith | Aug 20 2022 21:58 utc | 179

Posted by: TPaine | Aug 20 2022 12:51 utc | 24

You could not have put it together any better. If the West wins, everybody will lose. The psychopathy of Western leadership is nearing perfection. Nothing is done for the benefit of people.

Posted by: catbonez | Aug 20 2022 22:01 utc | 180

@karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 17:57 | 109

Your opinion that Russia waits for a major shelling on the ZNPP before striking back with amassed force (and sadly high risk of collateral damage) makes totally sense to me. That's just how their mentality is. "Nix aggressor" used to be one description of them used by us here in East Germany before they withdrew. There was even a joke, where the "dumb" Russian asked his opponent to punch him in the face, before he took his AK47 and... tak, tak, tak... When asked why not right away... "nix aggressor".

Posted by: OttoE | Aug 20 2022 22:08 utc | 181

Peter AU1 @

Lots of moving pieces in that MoD briefing. Dry storage is referenced. Older spent fuel in dry cask storage is far less dangerous and generally less protected. And would make a fine dirty bomb and is very possibly stored right out in the open. Spent fuel still in the pool will explode in a chain reaction if the pool is breached and goes dry. Happened at Fukushima #4 despite all the lies told about that since. I watched that repeatedly on CNN with my dying father, he had no question what we were watching and he emphatically was qualified to know what he was seeing.

Your notion of simply lobbing in a dirty bomb attached to an artillery shell is not something I'd thought of. All is coordinated by NATO, it could be delivered by long-range missile as well. If air defenses successfully shot down such a missile it would all be the same.

If all else fails blow up the NPP at Rivne and blame it on RF. We are in the psycho desperation phase.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 20 2022 22:10 utc | 182

@Guernica @104

yes. it's time for the leaders of all the remaining countries to make some calls to the West and let them know the game is up.

that if they pretend the Art. 5 applies, there will be consequences. they cannot get away with a nuclear disaster, i could gaf about "dirty" and "targeted."

this is why the un is worth nothing anymore. they should be speaking clearly and loudly and letting the world know the game is up.

if only i could write those 85% of the world leaders right now and ask them to speak up for us all.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Aug 20 2022 22:15 utc | 183

Peter AU1 @181--

Stalkerzone published this short bit on Patrushev's talk on Friday at the 17th meeting of the secretaries of the security councils of the member states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. The following I see as most important:

"'The formal presence of such biological objects in national ownership is insufficient for effective control over the actions of Americans, and this is confirmed by reliable information,' he stressed."

Meaning the host nations have zero control and often are denied access to the labs, a situation that simply cannot be allowed to continue.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 22:17 utc | 184

#185
It is exactly like that ! Desperation because it's about existence...that of the West!
And the desperate are unpredictable !!

Posted by: mac998 | Aug 20 2022 22:19 utc | 185

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 21:31 utc | 171
"One thing that been missing in this war to date is the white helmet style false flags."

MI6 moved a number of White Helmet assets over early in the SMO. Can't remember where I saw that but it seemed reasonable/typical of Brit use of Syrian mercenaries. I think they've been active since Bucha.

Posted by: T Paine | Aug 20 2022 22:22 utc | 186

The head of regional directorate of SBU for Kirovograd oblast Alexander Nakonechni shot himself, both Russian and Ukrainian sources report. The SBU is Ukraine’s intelligence and counterintelligence service. #breaking

https://t.me/azmilitary11/15908

Posted by: unimperator | Aug 20 2022 22:26 utc | 188

Re: Richard L | Aug 20 2022 20:25 utc | 149

you wrote: "If they believe their own MSM narrative, the Western politicians may feel that Russia is just a paper tiger and that the Western armies now have the perfect opportunity to defeat the Russians on the ground in Ukraine.

It does appear that the neocons and friends have come to believe their own propaganda. A colleague who spends a lot of time lobbying in Washington and who has many connections to insiders, tells me that most of these people think that they can make "Russia back down". I worry that they also believe in the Lieber and Press bullshit published by Foreign Affairs, The Rise of US Nuclear Primacy which claimed that the US could defeat Russia with a nuclear first-strike while completely wiping out Russia's ability to retaliate.

If these insane warmongers think that they can "win" a nuclear war with Russia (and China), then what is to prevent them from launching one? Their love of humanity?

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 20 2022 22:33 utc | 189

OttoE @184--

I formulated my opinion after Russia's MoD warned of a FF at the ZNPP involving such a massed artillery attack. That it hasn't occurred leads me to believe someone at NATO saw the same possibility. I also noted in my comment the great efficiency of Russian AD weapons that can interdict artillery rounds, something no NATO weapon can do. I'm not running Russia's side of the war, but I know what I'd do if I had their capability--I'd set up a trap to destroy as much Ukie artillery as possible using the ZNPP as bait but protecting it with extremely dense AD. If the opposition is hidden well enough, you can't find it until it exposes itself. To do so, you present it with something juicy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 22:33 utc | 190

In response to
"
If these insane warmongers think that they can "win" a nuclear war with Russia (and China), then what is to prevent them from launching one? Their love of humanity?

Posted by: Steven Starr | Aug 20 2022 22:33 utc | 192
"

Hopefully the military knows it does not have that nuclear superiority and will back the neocons down.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 20 2022 22:38 utc | 191

Posted by: gottlieb | Aug 20 2022 21:45 utc | 178
---

Aleksander Dugin is a known philosopher, and as philosophers, changed mind and speeches ever few months. Neither he or his daughter has anything to do with Russian government or Russian military. Darya Dugina (Platonova) is simply liked by Muscovites as a person, so the noise.

Posted by: rp | Aug 20 2022 22:39 utc | 192

karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 22:17 utc | 187

Russia mod in their Georgia biolab briefing said the building in Tbilisi said there were four floors were only US personnel were allowed. I believe that was similar for some areas in the Ukraine labs. Even here in Australia at pine gap there is a section US only. All vassals have handed sovereignty to the US.

... Not that Australia had any anyway, head of state being a hereditary foreign monarch but now that is shared by the US. As for the non anglo states that have accepted this .. pure subversion - working in the interests of a foreign power. US and UK very much like cancer.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 22:45 utc | 193

Loitering UAVs, armed and surveillance types, they have those. Counter Battery Arty, they have those. Attack choppers and air support they have those. Spec Opps for infiltration, they have those.
They took Avozstal, cleaned out the LPR....and they can't stop some artillery less than 20k away, it's a game, and a very dangerous one at that.

I read that Russia may have arranged for IKEA to come look at the reactor, like that won't provide precise targeting info for the Brits.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 20 2022 22:49 utc | 194

It is clear that the WaPo 'journalists' have been adding way too much paleo dill to their avocado crackers.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 20 2022 22:51 utc | 195

The meme in current (last 24 hrs) propaganda outlets is 'Putin's crazy way has stalled' and Russia shelling the nuke power plant. Setting the sheeple up for a major false flag.

With bing search engine its just a mater of putting in 'Ukraine' as the search term, when that comes up go to the dropdown box marked date and hit 24hrs. A good way to pick up on our 'betters' intentions. In the google search engine after hitting news hit tools and the dropdown date box comes up.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 23:11 utc | 196

Today was a watershed day for the SMO. Irrespective of who is responsible for what, next week will see a MAJOR Russian escalation against the West.

1. The shelling of the ZPP has demonstrated to the Russian people that the Ukrainian leadership are terrorists.

2. Reports of chemical poisoning of RF troops demonstrates to< B>the Russian people that the Ukrainian leadership are terrorists.

3. The attack on Svestapol naval base demonstrates to the Russian people that the Ukrainian and/or NATO military forces are an imminent threat to the Russian nation.

4. Reports of the assassination of Miss Dugan in Moscow demonstrates to the Russian people that the Ukrainian leadership are terrorists andt that the Ukrainian and/or NATO military forces are an imminent threat to the Russian nation.

It is Sunday morning in Moscow, and these are the events that will dominate discussion amongst Russians with their families. By Monday you will see the galvinated and coordinated response from the Russian government, and sometime this week you will see a MAJOR escalation against Ukrainian and/or Western assets. The shutdown of the ZPP will be among the first of these responses, but only the first.

Again, irrespective of the who and why of the matter these events - bundled together there is one PRIMARY result: the inflamation of Russian public opinion. That inflamation will be used to accomplish a specific goal. Perhaps that goal is to make a general mobilisation palatable. It is too soon to say. But it is the EFFECT ON THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE that is the most important aspect here.

Posted by: Rodina | Aug 20 2022 23:14 utc | 197

uncle tungsten @198--

I was thinking they were adding peyote buttons to their avocado toast.

Ta!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2022 23:16 utc | 198

"rp" are you the author of all the comments signed as "rp" in this thread?

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 20 2022 23:19 utc | 199

Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 23:11 utc | 199 " 'Ukraine' as the search term, when that comes up go to the dropdown box marked date and hit 24hrs."

Ukraine' as the search term, when that comes up hit the button marked news then go to the dropdown box marked date and hit 24hrs.

My Australian time is a bit past sozzled o'clock.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 20 2022 23:20 utc | 200

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