|
Open (NOT Ukraine) Thread 2022-134
Dear readers, I had to spend today with organizing for some unexpected maintenance need in my apartment. I therefore did not have time to read, and to write a new post. I hope that all will be fixed by tomorrow and will see you then.
News & views not related to the Ukraine conflict …
@ c1ue –
Yes, I’m familiar with the Dessler Koonin debate(s) and hadn’t realized there was another this year. First off, however, you frequently use the terminology popularized (if not coined) by Rush Limbaugh including “limousine liberals” when talking about the climate debate; Koonin doesn’t…
That said, I read a brief transcript of the most recent one and it looks like the same old stuff. I’m not completely sure why, but it keeps getting taken down at YouTube. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/08/16/andrew-dessler-vs-steven-koonin-the-video/
The reason I’m not incredibly interested in that debate is that the subject matter doesn’t interest me all that much in the terms of pure climate science. As you know, they get into the kinds of topics you’re fond of discussing when not outright denying that humans are affecting the global climate by driving up temperatures. Namely, Dessler gets all hot under the collar about wind, solar, etc. and how he thinks they can save humanity from global warming and Koonin likes to project that this is all a net positive for humanity for many of the same reasons you’ve brought up here before. My interest is in *whether* the climate is warming and given that I think – based on the details in the scientific models and observed phenomena (of many, many kinds) – that it is.
I’ve even agreed with you before about EVs not being the answer, and in fact – inside the globalist capitalist framework – that mining the materials used to make them work is a huge negative for the communities affected. Maybe Chile and Argentina will continue to elect left-leaning pro-indigenous leaders and they can at least allow the native population to benefit from the lithium deposits in ways that previous post-colonial governments didn’t with oil and other resources. Maybe China can find ways to extract the same materials in a less damaging manner and share the knowledge with the Global South. I’ve also kind of agreed with you on semiconductor and PV mfg. techniques being incredibly resource intensive and in many cases toxic waste and pollution generating through the use of carcinogens being intermixed with water. As I’ve alluded to before, I have experience in the design and manufacturing of experimental CdTe PVs using nasty chemicals. Once more, though not on topic, I’ve agreed with you about the ins and outs of the global semiconductor industry and current capabilities.
In any case, back to the debates, and to your stated views on AGW, Koonin effectively states that the science is too unclear to take action. Virtually any action other than to accept that it’s unsettled and that even if it’s true, it’s a net benefit to more people than it harms. This naturally veers into the politics and economics (really just continued fossil fuel capitalist exploitation) and becomes a debate I’m no longer interested in – at least on the same 30,000ft level as you. On that note, unless I’ve badly misunderstood your position, I also agree with you that when big American or EU style governments get involved, it’s usually going to be by way of regulatory agencies being captured by the industries they should be policing, and that the little guys (you, me, but more so the Global South) are the ones who will pay the price to enrich the next capitalist scam artist looking to monetize portions of the debate that *are* somewhat unclear (i.e., EVs, how carbon cap mandates might really work, government grants to alternative energy corporations, etc.). All of which, to me, is a critique of the false-democracies and their subservience to capital -or at least inability to regulate or set up realistic frameworks that won’t just end up creating the next Elon Musk Jr. – Although I’ve been reading more about SpaceX and have changed my mind on them, other than the aforementioned government “partnerships.”
My interest heretofore has been simply accepting the scientific truth that humans and fossil fuels are dangerously warming the Earth. Also as you know, Koonin has already accepted the opposite and his conclusions derive from that. If you have any further materials to recommend, I’d be happy to entertain them inasmuch as this is concerned, but I’m familiar enough with the ‘details’ such that I’m not sure anything you put forward is going to be a radical mind-changer for me.
In closing, ad hominem is something you resort to quickly as well, despite your expressed shock whenever someone deploys it against you and some of your comments on the matter have built-in ‘personal’ – I’ll call it “pre-ad hominem” – attacks against anyone who disagrees with you, from a broader perspective. Claiming that anyone who disagrees with you on one topic has never provided commentary of use to others on another unrelated topic is ad hominem, and untrue, period.
Forgive me if this sounds offensive and I’m not aiming for that, but your views on this topic seem to be that a) Anyone who accepts that humans are warming the Earth are members of a quasi-religious cult and immune to facts and logic and/or b) Anyone who wants to debate the merits of taking drastic action is either dumbly falling into line with industry-government graft like NATO, the MIC, NAFTA, etc. and not debating from a genuine position. Furthermore, you argue from the position *not* that the issue of warming is unsettled, but from the position that it’s a big mistake, hoax or worse – being perpetrated on humanity by (and these are my words, not trying to project them verbatim onto you) some sort of evil globalist cabal intent on killing off as many undesirables as possible as part of some long game to dominate every aspect of human life on Earth.
Buuuuuut, please correct me if I’m wrong on any of that. I’m not trying to be offensive or put words in your mouth.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 20 2022 20:15 utc | 74
|