Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 1, 2022
On The ‘Woke’ Flight To Taiwan

Is this the most 'librul' rubbish headline ever?


bigger

Investing in Real Estate as Self-Care
Many women seeking independence after a breakup or divorce have discovered emotional empowerment and even healing in real estate investment.

What is the definition of 'many'? I wonder at what tiny slice of the market this 'woke' advertisement for buying real estate is targeted.

Anyway – More seriously.

That too old 'woke' lady with the massive freezer full of very expensive ice-cream let it know through Taiwanese media that she wants to arrive in Taipei tomorrow, August 2, at 22:30 local time (14:30 UTC) and stay over night.

Pelosi's trip is a stupid thing to do but she is a politician and stupid things are what they generally do.

Michael D. Swaine @Dalzell60 – 12:26 UTC · Aug 1, 2022

I have been told that Pelosi has said she will only not go 2 TW if Biden publicly discourages her n she can blame him. Anyone else heard this? Sounds like Pelosi. Why can’t they both confer n conclude it’s not a good idea? Why the blame game, if true?
Pelosi expected to visit Taiwan, Taiwanese and US officials say

I can think of several reasons why Pelosi will not arrive in Taiwan. Here flight might, for example, get diverted. But it is also possible that it happens but is followed by huge consequences, likely to the disadvantage of the U.S. and Taiwan.

There is also this thought, by Cynthia Chung, which might become relevant:

In October 2019, Jake Sullivan, who became U.S. National Security Advisor in 2021, stated in an interview that the U.S. needed a clear threat to rally the world and play the role of saviour of mankind and that China could be that organizing principle for U.S. foreign policy. In the 2019 interview, he acknowledges that the problem was that people were not going to believe that China is a global threat, that their view of China is too positive and that the United States would need a “Pearl Harbour moment,” a real focusing event to change their minds, something he calmly stated that “would scare the hell out of the American people.”

She correctly traces such 'Pearl Harbour moment' thinking back to neo-conservative movement. Chung closes with this:

Thus, when Jake Sullivan observes that there is not enough anti-China sentiment to bolster an image of the United States as a “saviour of mankind” against China and that America is in need of a “Pearl Harbour moment” I would be very wary.

The circus around Pelosi’s trip to Taiwan in the coming days, and evident glee that is coming forth from many of these neocons frothing at the mouth over this prospect is a clear sign that something incredibly reckless and stupid is about to happen.

Pelosi’s airplane might indeed be shot down on her completely irrelevant and unnecessary trip to Taiwan, and if it is, don’t be surprised if it was the Americans themselves who are behind it, who have shown they are willing to do anything for that “Pearl Harbour moment.”

I for one surely hope that the above does not happen.

Comments

Below is a quote from a ZH piece about Pelosi’s trip follow on

China’s Taiwan Affairs Office said it will take disciplinary actions against two Taiwan foundations which will be banned from financially cooperating with mainland firms and individuals. China also announced a stoppage of certain fruit and fish imports from Taiwan and halted exports of natural sands to Taiwan which is a key component used in chip-making, according to Bloomberg. Furthermore, China will adopt criminal penalties regarding Taiwan separatists and vowed criminal punishments for Taiwan-independence diehards, according to Xinhua.

The point I want to joke with barflys about is the export of natural sands for chip making.
Can you think of a more costly raw material to import from far away……pound sand comes to mind as the message here…..grin

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 4 2022 1:36 utc | 501

uncle tungsten @492
Kuomintang took about 700,000 pieces of the best and most precious Chinese artifacts and artworks encompassing items spanning 8,000 years of Chinese history from the neolithic age to the modern period) plus all the national gold reserves when KMT retreated to TW. They are now at Taipei’s National Palace Museum.
Some crazy DPP politicians claim they’re going to blow up all the Chinese artifacts and artworks and bomb Three Gorges Reservoir if mainland China starts reuniifcation war.
I am afraid the lackeys like DPP/Tsai Ing-wen and spineless KMT probably would pass our Chinese culture heritage to some US/Western museums in the name of “protection”.
You see, just for the sake of preserving and protecting Chinese culture heritage, mainland China can not simply go for a war and bomb the hell out of Taiwan, like US & NATO did in Iraq.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 4 2022 1:36 utc | 502

The problem is in voicing vehement opposition to an action and when transgression occurs not acting on the threats issued.

You put a red line, I transgress it, you do nothing. Not even a shot across the bow? you lost and I won. You will submit again and again.

Qui veut son respect se le procure.
Posted by: CarlD | Aug 3 2022 4:48 utc | 402
Regrettably I have to agree, and I suspect, so do the Chinese common people.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 1:40 utc | 503

You see, just for the sake of preserving and protecting Chinese culture heritage, mainland China can not simply go for a war and bomb the hell out of Taiwan, like US & NATO did in Iraq.
Posted by: lulu | Aug 4 2022 1:36 utc | 500
So in other words, military action is off the table? Why, then, “Prepare For War!”?
Can we at least all agree that wording, was, shall we say, “unfortunate”?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 1:56 utc | 504

Uncle Tungsten @493:
You have misconception on the China-Taiwan relationship. China does not consider Taiwan an enemy (although I can’t say of the vice versa). China considers Taiwan people brothers/sisters, some of whom have gone astray and some misled. China considers much of how Taiwan has been behaving to be instigated (and likely even plotted) by foreign influencers, mainly Americans and Japanese. China has never looked for chances to put Taiwan to death–if they did it would have happened long ago (meaning anytime since the turn of the century) before outsiders had any response time to come to Taiwan’s rescue or assistance. I think Putin said the same about Ukrainians and I believed him, because as a Chinese I see the same predicament in the face.
You guys (in the west) are off by miles and miles when come to understanding the Chinese civil war since the CPC vs. KMT saga. You don’t understand the fundamentals, not due to your fault, but because anything you know came from reading western publications and listening to so-called western China-experts. There are no China experts in the west, not since Pearl Buck died. Even the exalted John Fairbank was only a student of the superficial aspects of Chinese culture and politics. That’s because western scholars come from western stances; they invariably look down their noses when they study and ponder Chinese issues, be it history or current affairs or culture. They are serious about their work, but they have no ideas of their own biases and blind spots. It’s an innate shortcoming, owed mostly to superiority that the West has enjoyed for the past 300 hundred years. I’m not trying to be rude in saying all this. I’m just trying to say that a 20-year-old from a small village in Hupei Province talking about how Tampa Bay is going to win another Superbowl because Tom Brady is still the QB, by regurgitating what he/she read of some third-class sport columnists’ eye-catching opinions, would most likely be talking nonsense.
So-called western analysts who really want to understand Chinese politics would have to first learn Chinese language, to the expert extents, including the ability to read old Chinese history classics. Short of that, one is only able to scratch the surface and merely picking up jargons to fool his/her audiences. By the way Chinese analysts are all very proficient in the languages of the nation they are assigned to cover. It’s a prerequisite to understanding that nation.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 2:19 utc | 505

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 1:21 utc | 498:

Yes, and in that case, maybe Xi Jinping and the PLA should have used other language than “Perish By Fire” and “Prepare For War!”, respectively.

What makes you think that the ‘respectively’ won’t happen, over time??? Why do things have to happen in timeframes that you consider proper???

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 2:24 utc | 506

Tichy @502
No, “military action is NOT off the table”.
China’s National Congress has already passed Anti-Secession Law in 2005. Article 8 formalized the long-standing policy of the PRC to use military means against Taiwan independence in the event peaceful means become otherwise impossible.
What I am saying is you cant simply start a war without thorough preparation and thinking through all the consequence.
There are millions of Taiwanese working and living on mainland China, and there are mainland Chinese study in TW and married to Taiwanese people and live on TW island.
People living in Taiwan island are Chinese, they are not aliens to us and we do care about the ordinary people there and also our Chinese culture heritage.
Hope I made myself understandable.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 4 2022 2:28 utc | 507

Oriental Voice @ 504
Thank you for your concise and to the point answer to Tichy’s question!

Posted by: lulu | Aug 4 2022 2:39 utc | 508

You have misconception on the China-Taiwan relationship. China does not consider Taiwan an enemy (although I can’t say of the vice versa). China considers Taiwan people brothers/sisters, some of whom have gone astray and some misled. China considers much of how Taiwan has been behaving to be instigated (and likely even plotted) by foreign influencers, mainly Americans and Japanese. China has never looked for chances to put Taiwan to death–if they did it would have happened long ago (meaning anytime since the turn of the century) before outsiders had any response time to come to Taiwan’s rescue or assistance. I think Putin said the same about Ukrainians and I believed him, because as a Chinese I see the same predicament in the face.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 2:19 utc | 503
This is the relevant part of your message, and it’s also quite self-evident. I’d say the rest might qualify as speculation?
I admit to not knowing Mandarin. I’ve read Mao Tse-Tung/Tsetung/Zedong, Chou/Zhou Enlai, Deng/Teng Xiaoping/Hsiaoping, Xi Jinping and so forth. (Xi’s writing is really watered down.) Since you’re Chinese, would you venture an analysis on how Three Worlds Theory 三个世界的理论 pertains to this conflict? How would China view itself on this scale at this present? What of Taiwan?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 2:41 utc | 509

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 1:21 utc | 498:
Yes, and in that case, maybe Xi Jinping and the PLA should have used other language than “Perish By Fire” and “Prepare For War!”, respectively.
What makes you think that the ‘respectively’ won’t happen, over time??? Why do things have to happen in timeframes that you consider proper???
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 2:24 utc | 504
So, PLA shouting “Prepare For War!” to the masses of Chinese working people was appropriate?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 2:54 utc | 510

lulu #497
If you simply post the youtube title we can search for it.
MoA doesn’t block sites, the systems between you and Moa have glitches and bans in place.
You can paste a link this way:
https://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=0Bstvxfvs2A
and we can reassemble it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 4 2022 2:58 utc | 511

It is time for Ukraine to return the favor to Taiwan and start eating Taiwanese fruits.

Posted by: Man | Aug 4 2022 3:08 utc | 512

It is a lovely thing to discuss China and to have Chinese people in the conversation, especially those who speak English so well. It’s actually a privilege, as well as a pleasure.
I’m afraid you’re wasting your time with some commenters here who simply prefer to argue than to surrender their point to greater reason. And if you give up with them, no one else will mind – it happens all the time here, and they are soon forgotten.
But, to repeat, I appreciate your input.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 4 2022 3:09 utc | 513

Tichy | Aug 4 2022 1:56 utc | 502
As with many others, learn to discern policy from opinion. Much opinion comes out of Russia. It gives the feelings of Russia from the leadership to the people they represent. Official policy in the great game though comes from the mouths of Putin and Lavrov. Same with China. The words that count come from the President and foreign minister. All else gives the mood of the country.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 3:14 utc | 514

Oriental Voice #503

Uncle Tungsten @493:
You have misconception on the China-Taiwan relationship. China does not consider Taiwan an enemy (although I can’t say of the vice versa). China considers Taiwan people brothers/sisters, some of whom have gone astray and some misled. China considers much of how Taiwan has been behaving to be instigated (and likely even plotted) by foreign influencers, mainly Americans and Japanese. China has never looked for chances to put Taiwan to death–if they did it would have happened long ago (meaning anytime since the turn of the century) before outsiders had any response time to come to Taiwan’s rescue or assistance. I think Putin said the same about Ukrainians and I believed him, because as a Chinese I see the same predicament in the face.

Thank you, I am aware of that position and the view of China toward its wayward island. Decades of propaganda disable all peoples, no matter who they are. Here is what I said:

“I am amazed at the leniency and absence of financial integration between the island and state. The concept of giving an enemy enough rope to hang themselves is ok but to apply an infinite length of rope is odd.”

It was metaphor, perhaps a language difference between us led to your impression that I therefor classed all Taiwan people as enemies of China. That was not intended. Allow me to rephrase:
By refraining from severe censor of the Taiwan governments over many decades, by allowing them to proceed without tribute to the ONE CHINA by way of taxes etc, China enabled and emboldened the Taiwan elite to continue to feed the USA jackal by purchasing arms and bribing their political and oligarch classes. ie extending a lot of rope on the leash of the treacherous class of leaders in Taiwan.
IMO Taiwan is grossly manipulated by an elite of thieving oligarchs and their political lackeys and generals. These are criminals and they need to be curtailed and perhaps imprisoned.
Nowhere did I suggest that Taiwanese people are the enemy of China.
It only requires a class analysis and there is no language barrier for me to comprehend who is an enemy of the people and the nation.
I refute your proposition to isolate my commentary on a supposition that I do not speak the language. That is BS.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 4 2022 3:14 utc | 515

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 3:14 utc | 512
Could the PLA post anything like that without the authorization of the CPC?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 3:19 utc | 516

technically speaking, aren’t the Chinese preparing for war right now in the sea around Taiwan island, while the Taiwanese are watching?

Posted by: Man | Aug 4 2022 3:22 utc | 517

In response to

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 3:14 utc | 512
Could the PLA post anything like that without the authorization of the CPC?
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 3:19 utc | 514

Your schtick is getting a bit tiring. Might you have an agenda? Misrepresent China’s political system to make it look like they do not allow public input in this case…sad
Go find another bar to spread your textual white noise in. This one is taken….grin

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 4 2022 3:27 utc | 518

lulu #505
I don’t believe there will be a war either. But Taiwan will no longer have supremacy of the sky and sea alone to itself. It is possible it will be accompanied by a Chinese warplane or navy vessel. Not as aggression but as ‘integration’. The fiction of Taiwan exclusive zone for its air and seaways will be diminished until non existent and fully encompassed within China exclusive zone.
They will just have to get used to it.
I am sure a gradual asserting of power and dominance could likely avoid hot head accidents but they are possible.
If I were China I would make the system requirements clear and unambiguous and then commence shrinking Taiwan leadership and filthy rich any latitude to make trouble. The mongrel thieves will leave to join their mates in USA or wherever and the civilians will recraft their future.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 4 2022 3:29 utc | 519

Your schtick is getting a bit tiring. Might you have an agenda? Misrepresent China’s political system to make it look like they do not allow public input in this case…sad
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 4 2022 3:27 utc | 516
Schtick? Are you aware of the Marxist tradition of democratic centralism?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 3:33 utc | 520

And just to clear up any confusion, I AM Marxist. M/L.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 3:39 utc | 521

Posted by: Down South | Aug 3 2022 7:17 utc | 419
———————–
again you spout that bs of ‘hysterical china’ !
hysterical ?
Try this for size…

INVADE SOLOMON ISLAND..NOW

!
WTF had Solomon island done to FUKUSA ?
they had the temerity to sign a security pact with the chicom !
Those uppity savages
!
MInd u, unlIKE TW which is a Chinese province, Solomon is a full blooded sovereign country FFS !
Are u gawd’s chosen people over there ?
https://tinyurl.com/35n887dt

Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 3:40 utc | 522

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 4 2022 3:09 utc | 511
Well said. Allow me to repeat that in Chinese: 跟喷子较真你就输了

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 3:44 utc | 523

psychohistorian | Aug 4 2022 3:27 utc | 516
I guess I replied to a troll. My mistake.
I have been thinking a bit on feelings of a country vs official policy. There is unofficial rhetoric from Russia and China and their is official rhetoric. The unofficial rhetoric gives us the feelings of the country. I suspect that with the Taiwan issue, many have confused unofficial rhetoric with official rhetoric. Or in simpler terms the feelings of the country not divided from great game policy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 3:50 utc | 524

Posted by: Down South | Aug 3 2022 7:17 utc | 419
—————–
Again u spout that ‘hysterical china’ nonsense !
Hysterical ?
Try this for size…
INVADE SOLOMON ISLAND PRONTO !
WTF had tiny Solomon done to mighty FUKUSA AKA AUKUS ?
Well those uppity savages had the temerity to sign a security pact with China without getting permission from FUKUSA AKA AUKUS !
uNLIKE tw, Solomon island is a full blooded sovereign country FFS,
ARE U GAWD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE ??

Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 3:52 utc | 525

denk | Aug 4 2022 3:52 utc | 522
I guess Solomon Islands brought out the full blooded colonizer empire instinct in the anglo west. The naked emperor for all to see.
Me being an anglo oz I look at this dumb shit… what to say.. I guess those that lead us still watch Carry on up the Khyber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jYPURHmaQ and believe anglo’s still rule the world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 4:10 utc | 526

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 4 2022 3:14 utc | 513
> By refraining from severe censor of the Taiwan governments over many decades, by allowing them to proceed without tribute to the ONE CHINA by way of taxes etc, China enabled and emboldened the Taiwan elite to continue to feed the USA jackal by purchasing arms and bribing their political and oligarch classes. ie extending a lot of rope on the leash of the treacherous class of leaders in Taiwan.
I see two possible reasons: (1)Chinese government was hoping that the Taiwan people figured out which side their bread is buttered so as to work towards reunification (2) rampant corruption during Jiang/Hu eras so that managing cross-straits dealings was very lucrative for Chinese bureaucrats and they were personally incented to do the “right thing” for themselves not the country.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 4:10 utc | 527

I have been thinking a bit on feelings of a country vs official policy.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 3:50 utc | 521
Then you have to define stuff. Class/dialectical analysis et cetera.
Some examples: What’s the feeling of “a country”? Is it the feeling of ALL the country (is that possible?,) or a CLASS within the country, or an ETHNIC or RELIGIOUS group within the country, or any such group on an INTERNATIONAL scale, or any combination of the above?
As for rhetoric, if I see a message by the Armed Forces of Ukraine calling for the murder of Russian prisoners of war, I consider that official rhetoric. Wouldn’t you?
Did the call to “prepare for war” come from an official PLA channel? If so – and please inform me on this! – is it reasonable to assume that the armed forces of China would post such a message without the clearance of the CPC? Again, democratic centralism.
I think I need to step back here and clarify:
I am 100% FOR China AGAINST the US.
100% FOR Russia AGAINST the US.
Theoretical reason, to some extent, rooted in my understanding of Three Worlds Theory, but undertaking an updated proper class analysis of the world today is a massive job and I’m certainly no Lenin.
I can’t just allow people to silence me with troll accusations. I may be mistaken but I’m honest.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 4:21 utc | 528

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 4:21 utc | 525
“Prepare for war” not equals “tomorrow we are going to shoot that plane down”

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 4:34 utc | 529

Ukraine and Taiwan are like Dumb and Dumber. At least the Ukies can claim they didn’t know what was coming. The Taiwanese can see their future now just looking over at Ukraine.

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Aug 4 2022 4:38 utc | 530

“Prepare for war” not equals “tomorrow we are going to shoot that plane down”
Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 4:34 utc | 526
I concede that. Would you say the rhetoric of the PLA can be considered official rhetoric? Would you say this rhetoric was appropriate? Do you understand the apparent disappointment of Chinese citizens about the lack of response or would you argue that is a manufactured story and there are no grievances?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 4:40 utc | 531

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 4 2022 4:10 utc | 523
—————
According to FUKUSA aka AUKUS, Solomon island’s sovereignty is ‘overrated’…

In a piece published in the Sydney Morning Herald today, New Zealand academic and long standing anti-Chinese agitator Anne-Marie Brady called for a “cull of sacred cows,” including an “over-emphasis on sovereignty,” in other words, any even notional commitment to international law in the South Pacific.

Iow, THE principle of self determination should apply to the Chinese province TW, whereas UN recognised Solomon’s sovereignty is subject to approval from FUKUSA AKA AUKUS !
chutzpah of such magnitude gotta be respected !
hehehehe

Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 4:43 utc | 532

I need to step back a bit
I am 100% FOR China AGAINST the US.
100% FOR Russia AGAINST the US.
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 4:21 utc | 525
——————
Too late moron, sounds like an afterthought that one.
A ‘marxist’ pop up in an anti-imperialists site taking pot shot at
China, not a world about FUKUSA provoking ww3 in with China.
‘marxist’ your ass !
They are really scrapping the barrel bottom these days.
heheh

Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 4:57 utc | 533

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 4:40 utc | 528
I personally consider PLA rhetoric as official PRC rhetoric.
As for appropriateness, I mentioned upstream that nobody thus far in this bar seems to have considered the possibility that the Chinese rhetoric was aimed at forcing Pelosi/US to not back down, to make the landing, so that the Chinese could then do what they are now doing. Among Chinese language forums and at least one English language forum, that’s what they are talking about.
Here’s what I wrote:
Nobody here seems to think that all the hysterics from the Chinese side is to make sure that Pelosi won’t back off and must land in Taiwan.
Take the drills on all sides of Taiwan island, up to within 20nm of the coast. If these drills were done before Pelosi announced her intention to visit, the west would be screaming about Chinese aggression and talking about sanctions. Now, they go “har har paper dragon puffing copium smoke shooting missiles into the water”. Let’s see whether these drills that squeeze Taiwan in are just a one-off show, or will be a recurring feature eh?

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 4:58 utc | 534

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 4:58 utc | 531
Yes, I don’t think you need to consider it personally since PLA is under direct CPC command.
What you describe is a possible theory. I’d argue it still makes the leadership look bad, not just in the eyes of the Evil Empire but among China’s own citizens.
——————
Too late moron, sounds like an afterthought that one.
A ‘marxist’ pop up in an anti-imperialists site taking pot shot at
China, not a world about FUKUSA provoking ww3 in with China.
‘marxist’ your ass !
Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 4:57 utc | 530
If this was a face-to-face meeting it’d been resolved in seconds. You could just ask me, say, “name Lenin’s most important philosophical work and Mao’s most quoted work on Diamat.” But these days anyone can google anything, and I frankly don’t give a fuck if you think I’m fake or not.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 5:05 utc | 535

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 4:58 utc | 531
Another thing and sorry for posting twice, but if the squeeze is really on, nobody would be happier than me, but I guess the jury is still out on that one. A three day military exercise and refusing to eat Taiwanese fruit and sell them sand isn’t exactly earth-shattering in its own right.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 5:15 utc | 536

Hey Tichy. Take your ism BS some where else. We report reality here and this thread is about Pelosi trip to Taiwan. Do you have any value to add to the discussion?
Below is a Xinhuanet posting that says it is a public notice

BEIJING, Aug. 2 (Xinhua) — Xinhua News Agency is authorized on Tuesday to release the following notice: from 1200 (Beijing Time) August 4 to 1200 (Beijing Time) August 7, 2022, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army will conduct important military exercises and training activities including live-fire drills in the following maritime areas and their air space bounded by lines joining:
25-15.26N 120-29.20E, 24-50.30N 120-05.45E, 25-04.32N 119-51.22E, 25-28.12N 120-14.30E
26-07.00N 121-57.00E, 25-30.00N 121-57.00E, 25-30.00N 121-28.00E, 26-07.00N 121-28.00E
25-34.00N 122-50.00E, 25-03.00N 122-50.00E, 25-03.00N 122-11.00E, 25-34.00N 122-11.00E
22-56.00N 122-40.00E, 23-38.00N 122-51.00E, 23-38.00N 123-23.00E, 22-56.00N 123-09.00E
21-14.00N 121-33.00E, 21-33.00N 121-18.00E, 21-07.00N 120-43.00E, 20-48.00N 120-59.00E
22-43.00N 119-14.00E, 22-10.00N 119-06.00E, 21-33.00N 120-29.00E, 22-09.00N 120-32.00E
For safety reasons, entering of vessels and aircraft to the above-mentioned sea and air space is prohibited.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 4 2022 5:15 utc | 537

If this was a face-to-face meeting it’d been resolved in seconds. You could just ask me, say, “name Lenin’s most important philosophical work and Mao’s most quoted work on Diamat.” But these days anyone can google anything, and I frankly don’t give a fuck if you think I’m fake or not.
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 5:05 utc | 532
———–
Face to face.
Resolve in sec…
Speaking like a thug.
MY POV doesnt matter
you, a self declared marxist, pop up in this thread chastising China without uttering a word on FUKUSA reckless brinkmanship at China’s doorstep is proof positive of your phoney credential.
I dont use google idiot.

Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 5:19 utc | 538

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 5:05 utc | 532
> I’d argue it still makes the leadership look bad, not just in the eyes of the Evil Empire
Pelosi’s official itinerary was vague about Taiwan all the way. Instead of flying direct from Malaysia to Taiwan over the S China Sea, her plane took a circuitous route spending almost twice as long in the air, and she arrived in darkness to a lights-out airport. Presumably her flight in was escorted by fighters. The US certainly took the military threat seriously.
If all this turns out to be deliberate Chinese misdirection and then the Empire still thinks this is China looking bad… well, I have nothing to say other than har har.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 5:46 utc | 539

To Suzan and Oriental Voice
Natural sand ban and other China sanctions to Taiwan
These Chinese sanctions will primarily impact the population, as many US sanctions. Not the governing cluster.
Why would they be more acceptable ?

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 4 2022 6:00 utc | 540

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 4 2022 6:00 utc | 537
What means do you suggest to use to attack the governing cluster specifically? This does seem to be a core issue.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 6:11 utc | 541

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 4 2022 6:00 utc | 537
PS They are more acceptable because the US sanctions attempt to strike at the second world and their attempts at independence, while any Chinese sanctions attempt to strike at the hegemon.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 6:17 utc | 542

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 4 2022 6:00 utc | 537
**Chinese sanctions will primarily impact the population, as many US sanctions. Not the governing cluster.
Why would they be more acceptable ?**
At the end of my first year in Taiwan, I was relocated to the mainland China. Prior to my departure, ALL my Taiwanese collogues were giving me kind of condolences, and were giving me advices on how to be safe because they all thought/think China was a very bad and unsafe place. Off course I was a bit concerned at the beginning but all my fear and concern evaporated the second I stepped into the mainland. It just proved to me how brainwashed the ordinary Taiwanese people are and how little they know about even the closest land to their island.
Now a ban on the sand might help to make the people wake u.

Posted by: Man | Aug 4 2022 6:23 utc | 543

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 6:17 utc | 539
——————–
I might’ve misunderstood some of your posts.
Signing off…

Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 6:25 utc | 544

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 6:11 utc | 538
Many DPP at all levels have business interests on the mainland. There are laws allowing the Chinese government to go after such businesses. I foresee more squeezing coming on this front.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 6:43 utc | 545

I think many here watch too much Netflix bs.
They kinda blame because China barks but don’t bite.
First, did they really bark ? I don’t think so. Their warnings were firm but they didn’t scream with red faces, not their style. Do I have to remind you again that Putin himself, about who can be said that he does what he says, warned anyone for years about some redline not to be crossed, and whose country was mocked and insulted for years also… before he bit.
So, in spite of your warnings not to do so, an old lady steps on your lawn and you go to punch her in the face ? Not their style either. Practically until the last minute, they didn’t know if she will dare to land. Everyone of us and millions of Chinese were following her fricking plane… And then she did land… that young Chinese hotheads wanted total war, kids will be kids… But are we among responsible adults or is it a club of action movie lovers ?

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 4 2022 6:47 utc | 546

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 2:41 utc | 507:
Tichy, I’m no political theorist, not even a political enthusiast. I’m not qualified to discuss with any trace of merit on Mao’s Three World Theory. All I know is that, according to China’s Theoretical Research Institute, Mao began to ponder the various world system theories circulating in Western scholarly circles prior to WW2 and applied them to China’s status quo in the 1940’s, expanded his thought on the subject matter further in the 1960’s, and completed in his own mind the theory of three worlds in the early 70’s. He revealed his thoughts to visiting African political leaders and was rather well received. So, in 1974 Deng Xiao Ping formally introduced this world view at the UN General Assembly speech. If this theory is applied to today’s world, China actually belongs in the First World, so today’s conflict is one between two first world contestants. Mao’s theory is for third world nations to rally together to fend off any first world aggression. But for conflicts between first world entities, its best that third world nations stay the hell away.
Do you hear me Australia, Canada, United Kingdom, Japan, Korea, and India????

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 6:58 utc | 547

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 6:58 utc | 544
You’d argue China is an imperialist superpower? I would not. The First World are the contestants for world hegemony. There’s only one left.
I’d argue if applied correctly China is now second world but this is open to interpretation.
One particular aspect of 3wT was presenting an ideological framework for the collaberation and outlining shared goals between second and third world, socialist countries and bourgeois nationalist forces, in their struggle against the superpowers. Thus China’s (self-professed third world) overtures to, for example, De Gaulle (second.)
Posted by: denk | Aug 4 2022 6:25 utc | 541
No worries. My “face to face” comment was merely, “if this had been a discussion over a beer, you’d realize I’m just a Marxist who’s feeling a bit down on the eternal wait for the Exceptional Nation’s comeuppance.” My first comments may have been hasty.

At the end of my first year in Taiwan, I was relocated to the mainland China. Prior to my departure, ALL my Taiwanese collogues were giving me kind of condolences, and were giving me advices on how to be safe because they all thought/think China was a very bad and unsafe place. Off course I was a bit concerned at the beginning but all my fear and concern evaporated the second I stepped into the mainland. It just proved to me how brainwashed the ordinary Taiwanese people are and how little they know about even the closest land to their island.
Now a ban on the sand might help to make the people wake u.
Posted by: Man | Aug 4 2022 6:23 utc | 540

This is a real problem, no? From my understanding, if mainland Chinese visit Taiwan they get treated really badly… by the average man on the street. If they suffer under sanctions, would they really “wake up,” or just hate the mainland more?
This is where talk about “brother people” get dicey. Mao and Zhou talked about brother people… in the fifties. Of course they were a brother people. Now they’ve lived under 70 years of economical, political, military and ideological control of the United States, starting with the fascists of the Kuomintang.
Do you perceive this ideological rot to have reached even the Taiwanese workers?
This is why I’m wary of “people” talk. At some point, class and the country’s standing on the international stage must trump blood.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 7:34 utc | 548

@ lulu | 500
“Kuomintang took about 700,000 pieces of the best and most precious Chinese artifacts and artworks encompassing items spanning 8,000 years of Chinese history from the neolithic age to the modern period) plus all the national gold reserves when KMT retreated to TW. They are now at Taipei’s National Palace Museum.”
What happened on main land China during the CCP’s “Cultural Revolution” with China’s heritage? Destroyed by zombies. Same thing happened in Tibet, by outsiders.
KMT did better in that field.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 4 2022 7:39 utc | 549

Also re Oriental Voice, clarification:

The case of the developed countries in between the superpowers and the developing countries is a complicated one. Some of them still retain colonialist relations of one form or another with Third World countries, and a country like Portugal even continues with its barbarous colonial rule. An end must be put to this state of affairs. At the same time, all these developed countries are in varying degrees controlled, threatened or bullied by the one superpower or the other. Some of them have in fact been reduced by a superpower to the position of dependencies under the signboard of its so-called “family.” In varying degrees, all these countries have the desire of shaking off superpower enslavement or control and safeguarding their national independence and the integrity of their sovereignty.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/deng-xiaoping/1974/04/10.htm

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 7:43 utc | 550

Chinese sanctions. To which and man
To wake up the taiwanese population may be no easy task, I am sure that sanctions will only alienate further the TW population from union with mainland, and eventually contribute to supporting the TW resistance to Chinese take over

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 4 2022 7:47 utc | 551

548 : to Tichy, not which
😉

Posted by: Daniel | Aug 4 2022 7:49 utc | 552

What happened on main land China during the CCP’s “Cultural Revolution” with China’s heritage? Destroyed by zombies. Same thing happened in Tibet, by outsiders.
KMT did better in that field.
Posted by: Antonym | Aug 4 2022 7:39 utc | 546

You are right, but your answer is beside lulu’s point. You just truncated his/her comment.
Now it’s the DPP who’s threatening to destroy these artefacts.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 4 2022 8:05 utc | 553

The difference: the “cultural revolution” actually happened – large scale. That idiotic Taipeh museum plot is still imaginary.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 4 2022 8:20 utc | 554

The difference: the “cultural revolution” actually happened – large scale. That idiotic Taipeh museum plot is still imaginary.
Posted by: Antonym | Aug 4 2022 8:20 utc | 554
I fail to see the relevance to the discussion. On point, if the madmen in Taipei burn the cultural treasuses of China, too bad. I mean it, that’s a shame, but China will live. What China can’t really live with long-term is the festering sore that is “independent” Taiwan, no more than Russia could live with Ukraine.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 10:05 utc | 555

I fail to see the relevance to the discussion. On point, if the madmen in Taipei burn the cultural treasuses of China, too bad. I mean it, that’s a shame, but China will live.
Posted by: Tichy | Aug 4 2022 10:05 utc | 555

Not so irrelevant actually.
One one hand it shows how much they care about their cultural roots.
On the other, when you make such a threat, it means you know nobody will come to rescue you.
Anyway, it’s an empty threat. Doing such a thing as destroying arts would not show a face that differs from Talibans.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 4 2022 13:32 utc | 556

This time PLA’s military exercise is along/near 12 knots along Taiwan island’s coastline, which results in the cancellation of at leat 40 flights from Taipei and close off the Gaoxiong (Kaohsiung) Port today, the busiest ariport and port of TW. TW newspapers are now telling people where to find shelters.
Posted by: lulu | Aug 3 2022 21:56 utc | 486

I infer that “knots” (nautical miles per hour) is an error (I mean in the original source, not by lulu) and that “nautical miles” (a nautical mile’s being 1/60 of a degree of a great circle) was intended.

Posted by: David Levin | Aug 4 2022 16:12 utc | 557

If it was 35 years to make the Taiwanese who are chinese to think of themselves as non chinese, I think it will take much less than that to reverse the process, after all the Taiwaness celebrate chinese new year and tomb sweeping day, the Taiwaness speaks Manadrine and believe in fengshui more than the chinese themselves, they eat mooncakes and Zongzi … The Taiwanese are 100% chinese culturally and no one can argue against that.
Also someone here mentioned that the CIA are very powerful in soft power. That’s very true, but I also believe that their magic is not long lasting. I am quite confident to say that if the Europeans intend to do so, some news here, some articles there, and suddenly in few months time everyone in Europe will be loving Russians.

Posted by: Man | Aug 6 2022 6:04 utc | 558