Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 23, 2022

How To Manipulate Readers With 'Expert' Slanted Reporting

Imran Khan, a former cricket star who went into politics and became Prime Minister of Pakistan, had been ousted by bribing and threatening politicians of his coalition to turn against him. Khan had developed good relations with China and Russia and was against allowing the U.S. military to use Pakistan as a base for attacks in Afghanistan.

The new Pakistani government under Shehbaz Sharif has turned out to follow opposite policies. But it is increasingly unpopular. Imran Khan has used his popularity to raise a public ruckus against the ruling elite and the military and judicial forces behind it. He and his PTI party have good chances to win in the next election.

U.S. media reporting about Khan is thus conflicted. While it tries to show him in a negative light it can not simply omit the facts that speak in his favor. Quoting partisan expert is one of its tools it uses to solve that conflict.

A recent New York Times demonstrates this technique.

Pakistan’s Imran Khan Is Now the Target of Forces He Once Wielded
Old allies like the military have turned against him, but the former prime minister’s appeal on the street has only grown stronger, setting up a dangerous showdown.

The opener:

Former Prime Minister Imran Khan’s allies have been arrested. Media outlets and public figures considered sympathetic to him have been intimidated or silenced. He has been hit with charges under Pakistan’s antiterrorism act and faces the prospect of arrest.

For weeks, Pakistan has been gripped by a political showdown between the ruling establishment and Mr. Khan, the former cricket star turned populist politician who was ousted from the prime minister post this year.

A local expert is quoted in paragraph seven of the NYT piece:

“The former prime minister has been accused of threatening government officials — they are serious allegations bringing the confrontation between him and the federal government to a head,” said Zahid Hussain, an Islamabad-based political analyst and a columnist for Dawn, the country’s leading daily. “Any move to arrest him could ignite an already volatile political situation.”

Khan has been accused of "threatening government officials" and these are "serious allegations" claims that local analyst.

However, a few paragraphs later we learn that there were no threads at all but only the announcement of regular legal action:

In an echo of that political script, on Sunday Mr. Khan was charged under Pakistan’s antiterrorism act after giving a speech to thousands of supporters in the capital, Islamabad, in which he threatened legal action against senior police officers and a judge involved in the recent arrest of one of his top aides.

Announcing a well founded legal complaint against some officials is certainly not an act of  terrorism. It is not consistent with "threatening government officials" or a "serious allegation" against Khan. It is simply the exercise of the right of every person under law.

Another case of using an 'expert' to slant the piece into a certain direction follows in paragraph thirteen:

“What differentiates this moment from previous moments is the amount of sheer street power Khan has,” said Madiha Afzal, a fellow at the Brookings Institution. “And street power makes a difference in Pakistan even when it does not translate into electoral votes.

"Even when it does not translate into electoral votes" lets the reader assume that Khan does not have the support at the ballot box where it counts.

However, the opposite is the case. Six paragraphs on the facts sneak in and debunk the Brookings 'expert':

In the past two months, Mr. Khan has managed to parlay his widespread support into electoral prowess. His party, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf, won sweeping victories in local elections in Punjab — a province that has often served as a bellwether for national politics — and in the port city of Karachi.

Why, one wonders, do the NYT authors bother to quote two 'experts' when both are evidently wrong and contradicted by the facts further down in the piece? Why are those misleading opinions given more prominent places than the historical record?

One gets the impression that the original reporting in the piece was written factually. But the editorial process at the Times then insisted on adding 'expert' voices to give it the desired slant. The preferred placing of those voices above the facts will mislead non-diligent readers of the resulting effusion.

This technique is only one of several low level manipulations used in 'reporting' by the Times and other media. Sneaking opinionated voices into factual reporting reveals the perception media intends to impose on their readers.

Posted by b on August 23, 2022 at 9:15 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Subterfuge and deception, using, among a plethora of other tools of psychological manipulation, lies of omission and commission, are the stock in trade of the particular group that runs Western media. The individual reporters who author most pieces have their work twisted to suit the ideological bent of the group above. This phenomenon is seen again and again in the United States, Canada, the former and current EU countries, Australia, and New Zealand.

Posted by: Nathaniel | Aug 23 2022 9:42 utc | 1

Fascinating developments in Pakistan. People vs empire. Thanks for bringing it to the fore b.

Posted by: RB | Aug 23 2022 9:43 utc | 2

This is why the NYT has zero credibility these days.

Posted by: Gerry Bell | Aug 23 2022 10:00 utc | 3

‘Sink the lede’


‘Our boy’ (H Kissinger quote I understand) has gone ‘native’

They attempted to ensnare him with blood ties with a Princess of the Blood , but he is Pashtun, not your typical Pakistani toerag of the Empire.

I believe that he Pakistan Foreign minister was one of the signatories of the SCO Foreign Ministers earlier this month and Pakistan is going to be at the main meeting next month - are they playing a double game?

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 23 2022 10:06 utc | 4

Hi B,

Imran Khan is not what he is posing to be. He was hand in glove with the military establishment of Pakistan and was brought to power by massive rigging in the 2019 elections. He didn’t know how to do politics being a sports star does not mean you are successful in politics as well and constantly relied on the Pakistan deep state help to stay in power via threats and bribes to his Allie’s as well as opponents. His wife former husband and kids were using their influence to take bribes for various political and bureaucratic appointments and made millions. In short he ruined the economy, threatened and jailed journalists and politicians when they called out his crimes. But he was just a puppet the real masters were in the Pakistan deep state the military establishment. When the country economy got into a standstill and their own economic interests were threatened they pulled the support from him. The politician Imran Khan couldn’t manage his coalition and his rule fell apart via a very legal and constitutional no confidence vote.

Bitter on why the deep state pulled the support he came up with a narrative that because I was against US or giving bases and because I visited a Russia they pulled the support…in fact he has most recently hired a pr firm on $25k a day so they could lobby him in US congress .

The fact is he has many criminal cases against him and any ordinary citizen would spend rest of their life behind bars because of those. But he is a former cricketer who helped win the 92 World Cup has some sympathy and is exploiting that sympathy. He has a big team of online human bots whom he has used to create narrative especially the current narrative of why he was removed.

The real culprits in Pakistan are the military establishment who brought him by helping rig the elections but when his performance was bad and the country was at the verge of bankruptcy they pulled the support as a bankrupt country cannot support the perks and benefits of the military.

Hope this helps connect the dots. It’s a false narrative that he is selling especially to stay out of jail. Same as democrats in US came up with Russia rigged the elections.

Posted by: WZ | Aug 23 2022 10:33 utc | 5

Here's the guideline, if a figure is aligned with the USA then he is a "leader of people". If he's against them, well then he's a "populist politician". So transparent.

Posted by: Tham | Aug 23 2022 10:52 utc | 6

Speaking of people vs empire has a great report on India under the british raj..... You can be sure that Pakistan is being similarly extorted.

An accusatory speech by Indian politician and social activist Shashi Tharoor within the walls of Oxford University went almost unnoticed in Britain, where polls show almost a third of the population still sees colonial rule as a boon and gift bayonated to India by the West.

When the British came, India's share of the world economy was 23 percent. When the British withdrew, it was 4 percent. Why? Because India has been ruled for the benefit of the British for all these centuries. Britain's rise was funded by the plundering of India. The industrial revolution in England came at the expense of deindustrialization in India.

The word 'robbery' itself, which means 'loot' in English, appeared in the language of Victorian England at the time and was borrowed from Hindi. Back then, for a young Englishman, a trip to the Indian colony meant returning home a rich man. The "Jewel in the Crown of the British Empire" - as the English called India - was in fact a cash cow that the colonial authorities had been peddling since the early 17th century, when the first merchants of the British East India Company roamed the shores of rich and mysterious India arrived, cannibalized with violence and cunning.

The very first expeditions for spices - nutmeg and cloves in particular - brought the founders and shareholders of the East India Company the fantastic profit of 5,000 percent. It was only later, when the East India Company was firmly established in India, that it began to manufacture cotton, sugar and tea on a large scale. It ended with the commercial cultivation of opium. Open drug trafficking under the auspices of the British Crown continued into the 1920s.

John Sullivan, descendant of the founder of the East India Campaign and colonial official, reported in his journal: “Trade is withering, the cities deserted. The locals are impoverished but the English are thriving. We are acting like a sponge, sucking up the wealth on the banks of the Ganges and pouring it out on the banks of the Thames.”

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 23 2022 11:02 utc | 7

A non factual delusional comment....clearly a spokesperson for Washington poodle that are the bane of of this unfortunate land called Pakistan

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 11:47 utc | 8

My comment is in response to WZ rant...

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 11:50 utc | 9

IT's not just the New York Times. I live in Ireland and have not read a newspaper in years, don't watch TV and don't listen to the radio. The Main Stream Media in Ireland are incapable of telling the truth on anything; they are totally compromised as are the UK media, US media etc.
I recall a US professor based on the West coast who said many years ago that he only read national newspapers like the Washington Post or New York Times to get the party line; he did not expect to get honest factual news with no biased opinion.
Whatever meme the main stream media are pushing -- I know it is a lie.

Posted by: James McCumiskey | Aug 23 2022 11:57 utc | 10

Posted by: WZ | Aug 23 2022 10:33 utc | 5

Some evidence to support your assertions would be more persuasive. Otherwise, there are no dots to connect.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Aug 23 2022 12:00 utc | 11

Excellent synopsis B....I am from Pakistan and follow each of your posts religiously.... absolutely top class contribution in a sea of lies and misinformation....helps me retain my sanity....
WZ post is case in attempt NOT to connect the dots's a bunch of platitudes planted to singularly misinform, propagandize and fuzzy the news space

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 12:10 utc | 12

The "pay-for-propaganda" business model appears to be holding up well, without any support from me or anyone I regularly associate with.

In the USA, I would wager most subscriptions are to government staff and their sub-contractors, then the other media.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 23 2022 12:15 utc | 13

Russia has become unimaginably popular in Pakistan....even more than the Chinese.....😳 This especially amongst the Imran Khan supporters.... the present government which sticks to the America's teat are, as you might imagine, more pro American war policy than Biden, Nuland and Blinken combined😂

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 12:15 utc | 14

I saw Ritter and Alexander in a program yesterday....I don't know why there's this hurry for Russia to declare victory in's taken decades for this rot to set in and I believe it's going to take at least half that much time to reverse the nazist Russophibia in Ukraine.... Easy does it😊
NB : Russia is raising at least 20 brigades from the liberated lands ...this is going to take time, but Insha Allah she will prevail.

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 12:24 utc | 15

Insha Allah means " if God wills"....and oh boy is he willing 😂

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 12:28 utc | 16

"Posted by: WZ | Aug 23 2022 10:33 utc | 5"

I prefer the narrative that Imran Khan is a man of high principles and class. If he is as bad as you say he is then he would still be in power with the full blessing of the USA.

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Aug 23 2022 12:29 utc | 17


A former manipulative racist one-shot ex-prez to old to serve another term does that all the time.

His fans worship him as a messiah. In reality, he has done nothing of note. Nor even bothered to honor even one election promise. Destroyed an economy in four years. Where ever he traveled. He left chaos behind him. In his final days caused a riot with preventable deaths.

Truth is truly stranger than fiction.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Aug 23 2022 12:30 utc | 18

The US media has been ordered to sustain the perception that Khan, friendly toward China and Russia, is bad for Pakistan and for the US.

The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), the flagship project of China's ambitious multi-billion-dollar Belt and Road Initiative, has recently been scrapped by the new Pakistan government after Khan's ouster in April.

The US has a major political and economic stake in Pakistan, the fifth largest country in the world by population and ranked as the 44th largest economy in 2022 according to IMF estimates. The United States has long been Pakistan’s largest export market – importing more than $5 billion in Pakistani goods in 2021, far surpassing any other country. The United States has also been a leading investor in Pakistan for the past 20 years.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 23 2022 12:55 utc | 19

"...caused a riot.."

Brainwashed Dembot detected. I wonder if it draws a salary?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2022 12:56 utc | 20

Bad Deal Motors On | Aug 23 2022 12:30 utc | 18

Present evidence of each of your statements.

You continue with your smear campaign against Donald Trump.

Your posts are an excellent example of b's writing above.

Posted by: crone | Aug 23 2022 13:01 utc | 21

Very undemocratic behavior by the current Pakistan govt. So when can we expect a starvation embargo against Pakistan like we did for Venezuela?

In Venezuela, we simply accuse them of having a contest election in 2018 and the U.S. is destroying that country.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Aug 23 2022 13:18 utc | 22

Since the corporate media apologists will be here shortly to offer defense of their imperial whoring I will play devil's advocate and preempt their lies.

Caveat lector.

Used news salesman: "If the reader buys our lies that is the reader's own fault!"

How will the presstitute corporate whore scum argue that?

"And street power makes a difference in Pakistan even when it does not translate into electoral votes."

Used news sales-slut defense: "That fellow imperial slut... I mean 'respected intellectual'... wasn't really referring to Imran Khan in that sentence! See? Nowhere in that sentence does he mention Khan! He's just talking about hypothetical cases where "street power" might not translate to votes! See? No lies were told! If you thought we were trying to get you to believe Khan doesn't have the electorate behind him then that is your fault, you stupid readers who aren't as smart as us presstitutes with our university special educations!"

Look, presstitute whores, if the reader has to parse your words that carefully to find hints of truth then you are lying, plain and simple, you nasty and scabrous sacks of cognitive cancer.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2022 13:20 utc | 23

I don't know many cricketers who built a hospital in their home town with their earnings. Imran Kahn did. No wonder the people love him. And he wasn't just a cricketer, he was a great one. They'd better let him back in power legitimately; there'll be havoc if they don't, more havoc than they can handle.

I think the NYT is printing the truth even way down the piece, not because they want to but because they have to. That is a very good sign. Thanks b for this important post!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 23 2022 13:29 utc | 24

Being a good English cricketer and married to the Goldsmith heiress wasn't enough for the dear boy. Never underestimate the retrogressive undertow of I***m.

Posted by: quasi_verbatim | Aug 23 2022 13:44 utc | 25

Khan isn't exactly a nice or scrupulous person - nobody who survives in Pakistani politics can be - but he is better than the alternative, especially the incredibly corrupt Sharif dynasty. An interesting thing I discovered is that ordinary Pakistanis admire our Indian politicians, the very same politician *we* despise, which is an indication of how awful theirs must be.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 23 2022 14:00 utc | 26

Re "terrorism"

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – – that’s all.”

Posted by: farm ecologist | Aug 23 2022 14:07 utc | 27

Hope to see Khan pull it off in the next election. I wonder how much election fraud the western oriented poodles will use to try to keep him out, and if Khan will be able to overcome this.

By the way, when is this election scheduled to happen.

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Aug 23 2022 14:12 utc | 28

The ability of the US government to upend the governments of foreign countries is weakening. Remember... The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Aug 23 2022 14:15 utc | 29

By the way, when is this election scheduled to happen.

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Aug 23 2022 14:12 utc | 28

As I understsand it, getting the election scheduled is the issue. Khan wants a new election, the Gov't wants to hang on and avoid an (early) election.)

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 23 2022 14:25 utc | 30

word of advice : either provide verifiable evidence for whatever you claim or get called a bullshitter. Burden of proof is not a Russian propaganda tool, you know.

Posted by: Sumguy | Aug 23 2022 14:31 utc | 31

Little known fact: Not one PK prime minister has completed a full 4 term since Liaquat Ali Khan 1947. Average tenure, 2.5 years. They're either deposed by the army (post-British partition civil war relics parked in Punjab) or assassinated.

WION (India media) is amused.

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2022 14:44 utc | 32

Thank you b for reading the New York Times so we don't have to. Thanks also for the great reporting you do consistently. You are one of the world's leading journalists, at least in my opinion.

Posted by: Chas | Aug 23 2022 14:46 utc | 33

Just wait until Russia defeats NATO in Ukraine. The spin from NYT will give you vertigo.

Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 23 2022 14:51 utc | 34

'Defense Politics Asia' has a reasonable post on the Imran Khan vs Pak. army top tussle:

He misses some nuances like Khan's Pashtun tribal roots vs the mostly Punjabi upper middle class roots of the Pakistani army top (labeled 'neutrals' - educated in the US), or the fact that many of Khan's followers are lower military ranks, policemen and armed Jihadis plus most of the male youth. Pakistan was artificially made on basis of common religion without taking in account different cultures or languages in this composite.

He is mostly a non-establishment opportunist looking for power to change the country's tack, in a way like Trump was.
This cannot happen in PR China alas - way too little freedom.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 23 2022 15:07 utc | 35

thanks b...... good update here, and nice takedown of nyt bullshit as well...

it is hard to put a good man down.... the usa is trying, but it is still very hard... i agree with @ juliania | Aug 23 2022 13:29 utc | 24 commentary... i read his autobiography.. i admire the man and all that he is doing for pakistan... i wish him and the pakistan people the best... at this point i think it is imran khan for the job in spite of the usa's attempt to find another dutiful servant for usa foreign policy objectives..

Posted by: james | Aug 23 2022 15:15 utc | 36

@ Antonym | Aug 23 2022 15:07 utc | 35

thanks for the viewpoint from an indian nationalist... says more about indian nationalism then anything else...

Posted by: james | Aug 23 2022 15:19 utc | 37

The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), the flagship project of China's ambitious multi-billion-dollar Belt and Road Initiative, has recently been scrapped by the new Pakistan government after Khan's ouster in April.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 23 2022 12:55 utc | 19

This statement is incorrect. (a) PK and China agreed the CPEC MOU 2015, Nawaz Sharif [PML-N, 2013-2017] gov; (b) eleven (11) completed energy projects and three (3) PMs later ...

'CPEC body brought no investment’, said PK Minsiter for Planning, Development and Special Inititiative, Ahsan Iqbal

However, for a second day running, the minister castiga­ted the CPEC Authority, saying the entity has not been able to attract any investment ever since its inception three years ago, APP reported. A news report on Wednesday had quoted him as calling for the dissolution of the CPEC Authority. ... The CPEC Authority was formed [by PK] in 2019 to ensure uninterrupted progress on its projects and coordination among the departments concerned.
Mr Iqbal claimed that earlier an investment of $29 billion had come [from China] into the CPEC project.

“That is why now we are going to adopt the same mechanism which had been followed from 2013 to 2019 so that this project can be implemented in the best possible way.”

CPEC Authority could be dissolved if Beijing agrees
This comes as Pakistan Occupied Gilgit Baltistan has been witnessing a spurt in local protests against the Pakistan Army over land issues. The local people are angry at the "land grabbing” spree of the army, all in the name of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).
According to a report in The Nation, the decision to wind up the CPEC Authority is in line with Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif’s PML-N’s old policy that was never in favour of establishing a parallel set-up. Even the PTI government led by former Prime Minister Imran Khan [PTI, 2018-2022] took over two years to set up the authority and it largely remained dormant as the last political dispensation too was not in the favor of having the authority.
ORDINANCE NO.KI OF 2019, full text
The Daily CPEC
Sharif on Wednesday approved, in principle, the move to abolish the CPEC Authority subject to consent by China. The decision was made on the basis of a summary that the planning and development ministry had moved two months ago to wrap up the body that had remained controversial since its inception....[Iqbal] further said the CPEC Authority Act [2021] would be repealed once the Chinese authorities give their consent. As per media outlet sources, China did not interfere in Pakistan’s internal decision-making about the CPEC implementation mechanism. .. The previous Imran Khan government had reluctantly enacted the CPEC Authority but it never filled the chairman’s post after Lt Gen (retd) Asim Saleem Bajwa’s resignation.
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin’s Regular Press Conference on August 19, 2022
Prasar Bharati: First, India has been demanding to complete the disengagement at the border so that relations can move on the right track. Has China decided to talk with India on the remaining friction points to complete the disengagement at the border? My second question is regarding CPEC Authority. Pakistani media reported that Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif on Wednesday approved to abolish the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) Authority subject to consent by China – a decision that the government says will help fast-track the implementation of BRI project. Will China give the consent to abolish the CPEC authority as mentioned in the report? Also, does China think that CPEC authority was an obstacle in implementing CPEC projects?

Wang Wenbin: On your first question ...

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2022 15:57 utc | 38

James McCumiskey | Aug 23 2022 11:57 utc | 10

Agree 100%. No longer live in Ireland, but used to subscribe to the Irish Times.
For one purpose only: To comment and provide missing context and ignored/omitted facts, and present an alternative viewpoint.
Always a minority, constantly abused by the flexibly faithful followers of the current approved orthodoxy who will turn on a dime to adopt the latest version, no matters its contradictions to the prior version. But great entertainment provoking them!

Irish a race of rebels? They are in me arse, they are just a bunch of conformists scared to rock the boat! Almost all who would rebel have emigrated.

When the IT stopped allowing comments last May, and memory-holed all comments on archived articles, I cancelled my subscription immediately.

Posted by: ltexpat | Aug 23 2022 16:01 utc | 39

psychopaths invariably accuse their adversary/intended victim of doing what they have long been doing to others. i've followed imran for years, not b/c of his splendour with a cricket bat or his days heading europe's court bt rather, as juliana as highlighted, his intelligence, genuine love of his people & nation, when he could've otherwise continued idling fading to black, as most other celebrities & charlatans do with their talent & fortunes. instead he worked long & seemingly with no hope in sight to restore pakistan & to stop the flow of blood & fortune flowing from america/imf/nato to criminals & their various banks throughout europe & the carib. he knew when he began his life was @ risk. not only his fortune & good name. he loves pakistan & sees its future & will work as putin has to return his beloved country to its rightful place. yes, i know the british created pakistan bt the illustrious pakistan of the moguls on the rich valley of the indus.

Posted by: emersonreturn | Aug 23 2022 16:09 utc | 40

Thanks b for picking up the baton on the Pakistan situation, for it's indeed very important, otherwise the NYET wouldn't spend so much energy lying about it. The electoral success in Punjab was a big surprise. I see no mention of the fact that Sharif was put into office despite being out of jail on bail due to familial corruption scandals, yet another reason for Pakistani outrage at the Parliamentary coup. If the Sharif gang had tried to scotch the CPEC they would've been lynched for BRI is massively popular in Pakistan--it brought energy to the nation allowing it to solve its huge power production woes. The WZ puke upthread is just another troll, and a very poor one at that.

As I wrote yesterday when I linked to the Pakistan article, a great many happenings are being covered up by the focus on Ukraine, which barflies must be aware of. For example, there're items dealing with the ongoing Global Food Plunder people need to know about that I'll post to the week in review open thread.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 16:16 utc | 41

Posted by: ltexpat | Aug 23 2022 16:01 utc | 39

I started to follow the Times and the Independent when Enda Kennedy was PM trying to restructure the banks in the Panic '08 ECB margin call. (Never forget the PIIGS). Browsing was "free". So I added Belfast Tory graph to the mix when BREXIT hit the basid queen and her little dog Sammy. THEN the middling all-anglo Irish sort --N-S-E-- whose "tiger" is chained to domestic RE, pHarma, and beef balance with UK uhh down the Protocol in the Irish Sea (or See?), pressed management of all the presses to throw up pay-to-view (eith cash sub or email reg). I'm pleased to say, Belfast Torygraph (the only one I registered) eventually cancelled my email address. I suppose, management tracked me bread crumbs back to a few unflattering comments.

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2022 16:29 utc | 42

Whatever meme the main stream media are pushing -- I know it is a lie.

Posted by: James McCumiskey | Aug 23 2022 11:57 utc | 10

Truer words were never spoken...

Posted by: AParadiseLost | Aug 23 2022 16:31 utc | 43

Going strictly on grammar and syntax I have to say that the WZ Pakistan troll is head and shoulders above the Bad Deal Democrat troll.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Aug 23 2022 16:35 utc | 44

karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 16:16 utc | 41

There will be a lot of turbulence in the world for sometime, but the more I look at this, Ukraine is the place the US Empire has gone to die. There is a faction in the US that would like to drop Ukraine and turn US attention on China but the rabidly anti Russia faction plus UK will I think keep US in Ukraine until it dies. If the anti China faction does manage to start a front against China as well, it will only speed up the destruction of US empire.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 23 2022 16:37 utc | 45

Peter AU1 @45--

G'day Peter! I think your hypothesis has merit. I noted what seemed to me an odd sensitivity voiced in this article about China's construction of more type 052D destroyers. Here're the opening paragraphs:

With five Type 052D destroyers allegedly spotted under construction at the Dalian Shipyard, China is said to have restarted the mass production of this type of warship, with foreign media hyping that the fast pace of China's shipbuilding makes the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy "the largest navy in the world," a claim that Chinese analysts slammed on Tuesday as being the rhetoric of the "China threat" theory.

An unverified picture recently circulating on social media showed what seemed to be five Type 052D destroyers at various stages of completion at the Dalian Shipyard in Northeast China's Liaoning Province, Paris-based media outlet Naval News reported on Sunday.

In addition to these five, at least one more is being built at the Jiangnan Changxing Shipyard in Shanghai, and they will soon join the 25 warships of the same class currently in service with the PLA Navy, Naval News said, citing observers.

Why be sensitive to the fact that China has a bigger navy? That does seem to be its goal afterall. Given China's ability to build ships, it could likely produce as many 052Ds in five years as the Outlaw US Empire has Arleigh Burke equivalents, which now number 70. IMO, China just needs to produce its facts in a way that Russia needs to produce facts on the ground.

Ultimately, China must build up the resilience of its non-Russia allies/partners so they become impervious to Outlaw US Empire blackmail and economic coercion as is the case with foodstuffs currently. Displacing the Empire on the energy front is slowly happening and will become a win when those resources are no longer denominated in dollars.

Crooke's latest essay, the last of his trio, provides us with another window into which we can view the situation that really merits its own discussion thread. On China, his al-Mayadeen column again addresses that topic, "The three ‘Trojan’ lighthouses feel the rope tighten".

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 17:19 utc | 47

karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 17:19 utc | 47

That piece by Crooke on group think was good. Ukraine I think is a perfect example. Most people I know don't think much of the government but media is all about them pumping in the same message. It's like watching a mob of sheep walk blindly over a cliff, all following the leader.

It is why with advertising fads can be created to sell trinkets and baubles. So many want to 'fit in'. Be part of the in group.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 23 2022 17:44 utc | 48

"Imran Khan, a former cricket star who went into politics and became Prime Minister of Pakistan"

Imran Khan was more than that: he was the captain of Pakistan!

Have a look at this video "The Devils Advocate v Imran Khan 3rd aug 1994" where Imran Khan allows himself to be judged by Darkus Howe even when the opening statement is "World class cricketer or first class cheat?" It is Geoffrey Boycott @27.14mins (and English cricket stops at Geoffrey Boycott) who provides the reality.

The whole programme goes far beyond cricket. It's much more about the politics of Post British Empire.

Darkus Howe's judgement @ 35.15mins is key.

Posted by: Andrew | Aug 23 2022 18:16 utc | 49

There is an old adage that sums up most of what we are seeing today. MSM's have embraced BS and the reporting is always questionable at best and ridiculous consistently. This was demonstrated by Bernstein and Woodward. They were not believed by anyone but a few out of dozens in their own paper. It took the NYT adding to the information to get their story believed.
ITLAM TAL (if their lips are moving, they are lying)

Once trust is lost, it is gone. None of the MSM have redeemed themselves with truth. Yet a few still tell the story as it stands without adding manure. To those we hail. But we will always be watching.

Posted by: Tard | Aug 23 2022 18:17 utc | 50

The MSM is comprised of 6 corporations.
And some change.
Who owns them and decide the narratives they run with?
What you have done is illustrated the above system in action.
Report the fact's but covered in an edited and obtuse crap blanket that is scanned briefly by the vast majority of readers.

Posted by: Jpc | Aug 23 2022 18:27 utc | 51

Peter AU1 @48--

Ah yes, in-group/out-group--You've got to become popular! Be noticed! Don't be just another face in the crowd. Reminds me of an ancient band, Greg Kihn Band, who wrote "Madison Avenue Man" where he'll make your fantasies part of his plan. There was a time when attempts by US culture aimed to defeat the Yes Men via critical film and stage productions from the late 1940s up through Hair. In fact, being a long hair was a long- established anti-establishment sign that conformists relentlessly battled against. Same with beards when the clean-shaven look was massively promoted. Lots of stories to relate about all that.

It appears that War Porn is too big an attracter. Don Henley was 100% correct about "Dirty Laundry;" it mystifies in ways that are very hard to figure, although it clearly connects to in-group/out-group.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 18:39 utc | 52

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Aug 23 2022 12:15 utc | 13

In the USA, I would wager most subscriptions are to government staff and their sub-contractors, then the other media.

You underestimated the size of the sheeple class in USA. There are tens of millions, I mean 10's of millions, of zombies here who consider what they read in national news papers as something as close to facts as it gets.

Having said that, there are tricks the MSM plays that are akin to the subscription falsehood you mentioned. As an example: high school students are offered annual (one time) subscription to the local paper for $1, if their families are not yet subscribers. They call it a trial subscription. Next year, the renewal price becomes $1 per week, etc. etc. The game is to boost the so-called "paid" subscription, regardless whether the tactic borders on lying :-).

Then there are many "free" publications, weekly or monthly, in just about every locality that I know of being circulated in the name selling advertisements. Whatever the cases are, the bottom line is the same: US printed media ain't worth a shit. But then again, so are TV-land and Radio-spaces. We are getting more and more stoooooopid by the successive generations.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 23 2022 18:40 utc | 53

Shashi Tharoor's speech on British misrule in India was expanded into a 2017 book. I read the version published in India under the title An Era of Darkness. Elsewhere, it had and has the title Inglorious Empire. It is in my opinion an excellent book.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 23 2022 18:53 utc | 54

"Here's the guideline, if a figure is aligned with the USA then he is a "leader of people". If he's against them, well then he's a "populist politician". So transparent."

It's the same in Europe. If someone is pro-EU or pro-Globalism, he is "moderate", "center" (or at most "center-left" or "center-right"), he is a "leader", "business-friendly", etc.

If someone is critical of EU and the slightest bit in favor of Sovereignty, he is a "populist", an "extremist", either "far-left" or "far-right", an "enemy" of business, and now very popular a "PUTINIst".

And none of them are leaders, they're just "mistakes" the voters made, like Syriza in Greece or Orbán in Hungary, that soon "the markets" and the "international community" of "liberal drmocracy" will teach them a lesson...

In the new trend, all those pro-NATO and USA vassals are "allies", but those that talk about facts (like NATO/USA war crimes, coups, invasions, etc) are "irresponsible".

As a left-wing voter (Social-Democratic, Nordic Model), I noticed this many years ago in mainstream media. The portuguese one even calls "far-left" or "extremist" and "populist" to the parties that propose things that already exist in Scandinavia.

They probably learned with the USA example of calling "communism" to the idea of worker rights, or healthcare as a human right, or education without debt, etc.
This isn't Communism. USA is fascism!

But since the last 6 months, this manipulation industry has gone beyond that, and now the "accepted" line of thinking is even thiner. And people just slightly outside that official line of the regime, are attacked in an even more evil way.

I remember a guy talking about the hostorical context of Ukrainian war, he didn't even start giving his opinion, just facts, and the TV "journalist" (from the channel: SIC) interrupted him to make this intervention with a very sad face:

"But don't you have pitty on the Ukrainian children NOW suffering?"

-and then proceded to let the pro-Nazi/Nato comentator do his intervention, repeating the war started on 24-February-2022 and Ukraine was at peace before that...

At this point, I completely stopped watching western mainstream media, and asked myself if at this point is Portugal learning theUSA propaganda, or is USA media learning how to lie even more with the portuguese mainstream "example".

About Imran Khan? Pakistan isn't even news. Most people can't even point the country in a map. This mass ignorance is the perfect "status quo" for mass desinformation and manipulation of perception of the peasants by the "elites" (called "regime" or "oligarchs" only when we're talking about Russia or non-Western aligned countries).

And the "news" of stupidification is another technique. Today Sanna Marin is on the news, the 'woke' propaganda is all over the place. But there's ZERO talk about the crimes that USA and Turkey are right now doing against Syria territory and against Kurdish people.

Nor is there any talk about what Finland is doing to Kurdish refugees. I guess for this people with "european values" and very "progressive" ideas, Human Rights are optional, depending on the skin color, and depending if they are compatible with the Empire's ambitions.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 23 2022 18:59 utc | 55

Many "diligent readers" have dumped the NYT as a valid news source, some literally decades ago.

Posted by: cougar1861 | Aug 23 2022 19:00 utc | 56

Here is Paul Robinson on the bias in media reporting: "Putin’s “ally”—a case of misreporting
Dugin may be many things, but Putin’s ‘ally,’ ‘brain,’ or ‘spiritual advisor’ aren’t among them"
And how that bias is maintained- basically by following the leader
"In British reporter Chris Ayres’s memoir War Reporting for Cowards, he describes the arrival briefing he got from the woman he was replacing as New York correspondent of the London Times: “‘Lift and view, Chris, is what we do here … We lift from the New York Times.’ She held up the copy on her desk. ‘And we watch the news.’ She pointed to CNN. ‘We lift … and view. If you get the hang of that, you too can be a foreign correspondent’.....”

Posted by: bevin | Aug 23 2022 19:03 utc | 57

I haven’t read any MSM propaganda for years. It is a waste of my time. I search for accurate information and analysis from sites such as this and other inedependant people who try to accurately tell those who would listen what is really going on.

Over the years, I believe a person can gain an ‘ ear ‘ for what is ceoorect and logical and what is rubbish.

I’m not claiming it’s perfect but my ‘ hearing ‘ is much more often correct than not. What I find hard to believe is how politicians, particularly in the west, can so vividly believe in lies that are so obvious.
These people want to have respect and be thought of as imtelligent yet go out of their way to prove the opposite.

As Napoleon Bonapart is quated as saying : In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.

Apparently this appies especially to any politician of or in leauge with the west.

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Aug 23 2022 19:05 utc | 58

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 18:39 utc | 52

Karl, your mention of Yes Men reminded me of a book by that title written by two guys who set up a phony gatt dot org website and accepted numerous invitations to speak at important meetings, where they conveyed the UN's true beliefs rather than the ones that the UN publicly states, which one of the Yes Men's associates characterized as "identity correction." And their professional audiences bought it all. I think that many readers here would find the book worthwhile (and it sort of relates to what your cited post addresses).

Posted by: David Levin | Aug 23 2022 19:07 utc | 59

The US has a major political and economic stake in Pakistan, the fifth largest country in the world by population and ranked as the 44th largest economy in 2022 according to IMF estimates. The United States has long been Pakistan’s largest export market – importing more than $5 billion in Pakistani goods in 2021, far surpassing any other country. The United States has also been a leading investor [LOL!] in Pakistan for the past 20 years.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 23 2022 12:55 utc | 19

That excerpt from US, while flattering USTR, is insignificant. PK is a net importer, trading ever worthless currency [10Y trend] for USD reserves. PKR inflation, over all, has been circling the toilet for decades [FY 1960-2023: WB data].

US-PK balance of trade, calandar 2020

In 2020, United States exported $2.78B to Pakistan. [...] In 2020, Pakistan exported $4.04B to United States .

FY July-June, 2020-2021 exports, commodity, USD val, destination: pdf pp 9-13

PK imports by country (2021)
PK exports by country (2021)

Pakistan’s trade balance worsening sharply (3Q2021)

Pakistan balance of trade, Oct 2021-July2022

Pakistan has been running consistent trade deficit since 2003 mainly due to high imports of energy. Since 2012, China has emerged as Pakistan’s largest trading partner replacing the United States. In recent years, the biggest trade deficits were recorded with China, India, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Malaysia. Pakistan records trade surpluses with the United States, Afghanistan, Germany and United Kingdom.

US-PK balance of trade, 1985 to date (000s MoM)

IMF Pakistan: Outstanding Purchases and Loans (SDR): 5194.25 million (June 30, 2022)

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2022 19:07 utc | 60

You are right it is an excellent book. Its author was in the running, I believe, for the leadership of Congress. He would be a great choice.
Pakistan is one of the '48 States, like India and Israel founded in 1948 with the parting gift pf eternal ethnic and sectarian conflict built in. Pakistan's history has been shaped by its rivalry with India and the perceived-by its ruling elites- need to ally itself with the imperialists. Seventy odd years later it finds it difficult to break the habit, in part, at least, because its officers corps is riddled with graduates of Sandhurst and the US military academies.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 23 2022 19:10 utc | 61

Carlos Marques@55
Are we going to have to club together and send you on a trip to Sweden, so that you can prove to yourself that Nordic socialism no longer exists? Or will the scramble to join NATO and( in Stoltenberg's case) rush to war change your mind? And save us all the bother?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 23 2022 19:15 utc | 62

Posted by: bevin | Aug 23 2022 19:10 utc | 61

Partition of British India 1947.

Posted by: sln2002 | Aug 23 2022 19:17 utc | 63

I again link to the recent Gallup Poll on Confidence in Institutions where you'll see the levels reported by political affiliation. On newspapers, Rs, 5%; Inds, 12%; Ds, 35%. On TV News, Rs, 8%; Inds, 8%' Ds, 20%.

I interpret those #s to show very little confidence in news media. Congress by comparison is 5%, 7%, 10%, respectively. IMO, Manufacturing Consent is having a very difficult time.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 19:19 utc | 64

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 23 2022 13:20 utc | 23

I believe the poster is referring to Biden, and not to Trump...

Posted by: Gene Poole | Aug 23 2022 19:29 utc | 65

The real culprits in Pakistan are the military establishment who brought him by helping rig the elections but when his performance was bad, and the country was at the verge of bankruptcy they pulled the support as a bankrupt country cannot support the perks and benefits of the military.
Hope this helps connect the dots. It’s a false narrative that he is selling, especially to stay out of jail. Same as democrats in US came up with Russia rigged the elections.
Posted by: WZ | Aug 23 2022 10:33 utc | 5

Well thank you WZ for showing up just in time to save us from making such an embarrassing mistake about Mr. Khan and pointing us towards a proper “narrative” concerning politics in Pakistan. I am sure that the politicians in his political coalition only turned against Mr. Imran Khan for only the noblest of reasons; surely, they could never be bribed or extorted as some people have suggested (like mojority Pakistani voters).
And these noble political turncoats are the very same people who once supported Mr. Khan, even while Mr. Khan was “…hand in glove with the military establishment of Pakistan and was brought to power by massive [vote] rigging in the 2019 elections.” One would have thought these noble men and women (?) would have exited the “coalition” immediately.
Could it be that Mr. Khan became a “bad” performer in the minds of the most noble political turncoats after Mr. Kahn refusal to allow the US to continue its drone attacks on Afghanistan from across Pakistan’s border? Or, perhaps when Mr. Khan refused the accept the US/NATO narrative concerning Russia and China.
Frankly WZ, I don’t care if Mr. Khan is not a perfect politician or the biggest crook in Pakistan. He followed the most proper (and the most honest) narrative concerning Russia, Ukraine, China, and the struggle for a multipolar world.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 23 2022 19:39 utc | 66

My comment is in response to WZ rant...

Posted by: Umar | Aug 23 2022 11:50 utc | 9

Thank you, Umar. My response was also in response to WZ. But he (she?) is more than ranting, his comment was too detailed and concise. I smell a paid Troll with a worksheet in his hand.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 23 2022 19:49 utc | 67

"....This cannot happen in PR China alas - way too little freedom....." Of course PRC never interfere another country nor regime changes..

Fuck your freedom and democracy shit...take it back to your Hindu's Narendra Modi ... another balls carrier USA..

The real JC

Posted by: JC | Aug 23 2022 20:00 utc | 68

Very undemocratic behavior by the current Pakistan govt. So when can we expect a starvation embargo against Pakistan like we did for Venezuela?

In Venezuela, we simply accuse them of having a contest election in 2018 and the U.S. is destroying that country.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Aug 23 2022 13:18 utc | 22

Good point, but frankly I am more concerned about the new governments in Columbia and Honduras. The Monroe Doctrine is dying of a thousand cuts, and the US isn't happy.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 23 2022 20:05 utc | 69

David Levine @59--

Thanks for that reminder. There was another troop, the Billionaires Club (if memory serves correctly), that was active about the same time and was thought to be the same actors.

Another example of media manipulation occurred today after the phone call initiated by France's Foreign Ministry and Lavrov which was handled by Zakharova thusly:

Immediately after the august 23 telephone conversation between the foreign ministers of Russia and France, reports appeared on the news feeds of foreign media that gave a distorted interpretation of its content. It is presented as if the French side almost "pushed" its position. In fact, Sergey Lavrov has clearly put everything in its place, urging Paris to influence his charges in Kiev, who, having completely lost their heads, continue to shell the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant (ZNPP), the city of Enerhodar and the surrounding territories.

The French minister was told in conversation, and more than once, that Russian consent to conduct an international IAEA mission to the ZNPP, which Paris is seeking with incomprehensible persistence, was given on June 3. Both the UN Secretariat and the IAEA are well aware of this. And our French colleagues are sufficiently aware of the situation, although they are trying to get some additional explanations from the Russian side.

In this regard, we emphasize that recently we have repeatedly, including publicly, described in detail how the situation with the preparation of the IAEA mission has developed.

We deeply regret that the mission has not yet taken place. As you know, this is a deplorable result of unscrupulous games on the part of the UN Secretariat. If now our colleagues in the West, including Paris, believe that the matter is moving towards the practical implementation of such a responsible event, then this is an important and positive change in their approach.

Until now, Kiev's handlers have worked exclusively to disrupt the IAEA mission, playing along with the constant provocations of the Kiev regime, including the dangerous shelling of the ZNPP.

Russia, like no one else, is interested in the fact that representatives of the IAEA will be at the station, see with their own eyes the devastating consequences of its shelling by the Ukrainian side and give an objective – tough – assessment of what is happening. We call on Western countries to stop indulging in the geopolitical ambitions and whims of the Zelensky regime, and to put the interests of nuclear security at the forefront.

Further connivance with the Ukrainian shelling of the ZNPP is not just criminal, it may turn out to be a "shot in the head". We hope that Paris understands this and will finally be able to pull off its arrogant "client" in Kiev.

Lavrov returned to active duty today with meetings followed by a presser. Here's his closing remarks prior to taking questions:

"We agreed to continue our close coordination at the UN to uphold the principles of international law. We have another common format – the Group of Friends in Defence of the UN Charter. This association already includes more than two dozen states. We will defend the priority of the principles enshrined in the Charter of the World Organisation and currently under aggressive attack from the 'collective West' led by the United States." [My Emphasis]

Of the few Q&As, IMO this was most important:

Question: In the opinion of the Russian Federation, how soon can we expect a response from the United States on the Iranian nuclear dossier?

Sergey Lavrov: It is obvious that the question of when the US delay in reacting to the document on the Iranian nuclear dossier will end should not be addressed to me. About a year ago, the United States loudly and assertively (as it likes to do) stated that Russia had "blocked" the achievement of an agreement on the renewal of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action on the Iranian nuclear program. Not a single fact was cited. It's been a year. Russia has long confirmed its agreement with the version of the document that was presented to all participants in the process. The United States has not yet reported its response.

If you have a correspondent office in Washington, ask your correspondent to ask this question there. If not, there are now ways to do it online.

Yet again another example of lies showing the Outlaw US Empire has zero credibility on any topic unless it provides verifiable facts to accompany its statements, which it seems incapable of doing. To which the question Why? must be asked.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 20:48 utc | 70

Guernica | Aug 23 2022 20:05 utc | 69

Just a nice note from Venezuela. They have refused to sell Oil to the UK until they get their gold back.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 23 2022 21:04 utc | 71

karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 20:48 utc | 70

Among the conditions that the US wants in the Iranian negociations are (obviously) to include their missile and military abilities. Refused.

One other is that they will lift the designation of the Iranian IRGC as a terrorist organisation, if they renounce vengeance for the murder of Soleimani. (Protect Pompeo?). Refused.

Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 23 2022 21:13 utc | 72

How is this action any different than what Joe Biden is doing to Donald Trump and his allies?

Posted by: Mike Mergle | Aug 23 2022 21:33 utc | 73

Mike Mergle @73--

There're many differences. Khan was PM when removed by a contrived vote of No Confidence fueled by bribes from the Outlaw US Empire. Khan was replaced by a jail bird, who is literally out on bond. Given the vast history of corruption linked to the Sharif family well known by Pakistanis, Khan's accusations of the act being perpetrated by a foreign actor is very plausible. Unlike the Outlaw US Empire, Pakistan's democracy is strong and vibrant with very heavy citizen participation and the media isn't owned by The Establishment. The elections in Punjab, not a Khan stronghold, that overwhelmed the opposition is very significant proof of Khan's nationwide appeal. Conceivably, if not removed, Khan could have remained PM for many years--yes, he's that popular. Parliamentary elections will be held in 2023, and with Punjab's results as an indicator, Khan will be easily returned with an outright majority and not be weakened by having to form a coalition as he had to last time, which enabled his dismissal.

And we should recall, it was the Ds that screamed Russia put Trump in place without one shred of evidence and continued for his entire term. When we investigate the deep history of the Ds versus the Rs, the Rs are actually the better group despite their recent history--the Rs were the Progressives, the Ds the Regressives. Both are now collectively The Swamp.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 21:53 utc | 74

Umar @ 8, Guernica @ 66:

At least the troll is well named, WZ as in the antiquated US expression "up the Wazoo".

You have to pity the cubicle crusaders at GCHQ or in Langley who aren't even allowed to choose their own troll tags.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 23 2022 21:59 utc | 75

@ karlof1 | Aug 23 2022 20:48 utc | 70

thanks karl.. those are excellent responses from russia.. i wonder if any of this perspective gets communicated in the western msm? my feeling is no...

@ Stonebird | Aug 23 2022 21:04 utc | 71

that is an excellent response from venezuala too.. thanks for that..

@ Jen | Aug 23 2022 21:59 utc | 75

lol... up the wazoo would be a better user name... reminds me of a great album by frank zappa.. this is considered zappas most ''jazzy'' album..

first track - For Calvin (And His Next Two Hitch-Hikers)

Posted by: james | Aug 23 2022 22:22 utc | 76

Reply to James Mc Cumiskey at 10

I fully agree. For many years I was a reader of the Irish Times, allegedly Ireland's premier newspaper. I had to stop subscribing as the quality deteriorated over years, until it became just a mouthpiece of the woke hive mind. Similarly, Ireland's national broadcaster, RTE, I found was more and more seeking out spokespeople for such as the Royal United Services Institute and other such imperial servants of the US and UK kind, in order to inform the Irish Public about international events. In fact, recently they had the neo-cons neo-con John Bolton on presenting him as a credible voice. Once we were proud to be a neutral country, now our media is salami slicing us into serving the empire more and more. Even recently, they have been running Irish membership of NATO up the flagpole to see who salutes. Like James, I no longer get any news from broadcast or print media, as we have succumbed to being nothing more than a mouthpiece for the mighty Wurlitzer.

Posted by: Razor | Aug 23 2022 22:50 utc | 77

How pathetic the quality of comments in this thread ws being castigated for actually naming the main problem of pakistan which is its military and how it turned on Nawaz when he tried to curtail some powers of the pak army that has failed to win a single war and turned the country into a debt ridden hellhole. Pakarmy took back it's support after imran failed miserably in running the country and tried to dictate who the next chief of isi will be (their military intelligence and the arm of military chiefly responsible for holding on to absolute power within Pakistan). Seeing how he was being discarded he said this is all a foreign plot (favorite excuse for Pakistany people to cope with their incompetence as a people and country) and gained traction and milking it for all it's worth. The man married the daughter of a zionist his fm used to be called voice of America for his unflinching loyalty to us and now this guy is being hailed for his token opposition to us imperialism.
Some of the people who actually recognize the truth then become sheeple and just fall in line with whoever sprays of few words against the hegemony for their own benefit.

Posted by: A.z | Aug 23 2022 23:54 utc | 78

The change in Pakistan leadership from alignment with China, and the scuttling of CPEC with Gwadar port, will result in increased China interest in Iran's India-supported Chabahar port with connections to China through Afghanistan. Iran is now pushing it, and China (characteristically) is wary of undependable countries. Meanwhile the heretofore sluggish India support of Chabahar ought to improve.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 24 2022 0:53 utc | 79

We don't have to read the New York Times- there are much better news and opinion sources on the internet.
Pakistan is on the brink of Civil War- an American inspired civil war.

"Prominent defense analyst and former Pakistani military officer Haider Mehdi has vociferously claimed that Army Chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa colluded with US authorities to topple the Imran Khan government on 9 April.

"While much of the Pakistani masses and social media seem to think the same, the state’s mainstream media outlets have largely stayed mum on the biggest political scandal the country has witnessed in years.

"Many who criticized the role of Pakistan’s military in the alleged coup – even without naming the collaborating officers specifically – have already fled the country. Some have been arrested, while others are facing legal charges.....

"...The current Pakistani government is in an impossible situation. It cannot call for early elections to help establish a public mandate of support, because all indications suggest an overwhelming win for Khan. And yet the very act of governing is a challenge without this mandate, especially given the ongoing public derision expressed in massive street protests and across social media.

"In addition, the government of PM Shahbaz Sharif has its own internal divisions; these cracks are slowly becoming visible – and widening.

"On 21 August, the PTI beat their opposing 13-party alliance with a decisive margin in Karachi’s by-election. Imran Khan has essentially already gone to the polls and won, because these massive election margins are taking place on the opposition’s own home ground.

"Many of the ruling alliance members are fleeing provinces, where the PTI has formed provincial governments, in order to avoid potential legal charges. Some federal ministers have already escaped overseas.

"According to prominent Pakistani analyst Nasir Ahmad: “General Bajwa and his senior generals have no idea how deeply the people of Pakistan, and indeed their own command, loathe them. The more insecure the generals feel, the more they dig their heels, and the closer they dig in their heels, and the closer they take their country, which they are oath-bound to defend, to its ultimate fall.”

"Others, however, worry that if the state succeeds in arresting – or even assassinating Imran Khan – then nobody of similar stature and popularity will remain to lead Pakistan to safe shores. Mass movements require competent and legitimate leadership that can appropriately channel nations toward a politically constructive end, or else these numbers may just collapse upon themselves.

"Since the alleged US-sponsored ousting of Imran Khan on 9 April, there hasn’t been a dull moment in Pakistani politics. It is as though the country grew a new head overnight:

"Nobody could have imagined that the nation’s usually impartial military elite could be turned against the Pakistani masses and become the focus of widespread disdain. Nobody thought the military’s top brass would cozy up to New Delhi, all while when India amasses invasion-level troop build-ups in occupied Kashmir.

"Interior Minister Rana Sanaullah stated on 22 August that Afghanistan is an ‘enemy country,’ signaling renewed Pakistani sycophancy in Washington’s latest war against the Taliban. Such decisions go diametrically against the will, interests, and decisions of the people of Pakistan.

"A showdown between the majority – versus an increasingly unpopular and emboldened Pakistani elite – is inevitable in the near future."

Posted by: bevin | Aug 24 2022 1:01 utc | 80

@ A.z | Aug 23 2022 23:54 utc | 78

your bullshit is almost as rich as wz's... are you working the night shift for him? lolol...

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2022 1:04 utc | 81

james | Aug 24 2022 1:04 utc | 81

Pakistan. An amazing country. Very poor but filled with very smart people. What Khan has started, I think even if he were to be killed would only grow.

Not to degrade or demean what is happening there, but it is just anther stint of anglo imperialism. In the geopolitical scale of things, something like Gallipoli in WWI.

The Pakistani's will I think beat the anglo imperialists.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 24 2022 1:22 utc | 82

i sure hope you are right peter... the financial oligarchy as represented by the imf, world bank and etc - have their hooks in pretty deep in pakistan, but the people aren't easily fooled.. that's a good thing.... imran khan is a great leader... he must have freaked out the west as soon as he won the role... i hope they can overcome this temporary set back... a lot of traitors will take the money and pakistan has some of them too...

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2022 1:32 utc | 83

Thank you again for another piece daring to say the king is naked. While most of your readers come across nodding their heads, how many of us actually caught this without you pointing the obvious depravity out?

Posted by: Allen | Aug 24 2022 1:35 utc | 84

@ Allen | Aug 24 2022 1:35 utc | 84

one thing you will pick up at moa is most of the readers don't believe any of the bullshit in the msm... and many of them are interested in global affairs too.. that would be me anyway... i have been following pakistan for a long time, but not living their, obviously i have to work harder to understand.. i did read the autobio of imran khan a few years ago... i have been following for at least the past 20 years anyway, or back around the time i went to india - 1998 - more closely..

while i know this nuance is utilized a lot in the western media, i appreciate b articulating it so well!

Dr John - I'm Gonna Go Fishin

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2022 1:42 utc | 85

james | Aug 24 2022 1:32 utc | 83

I think the Pakistani's will beat those clowns. On top of that they are backed by both Russia and China.

The in credible ingenuity of the Pakistanis I saw in the Pakistan truck channel - they are smart people no matter they are currently poor. The support for Khan .... Wait and watch james.

It gets me down at times what the anglosphere is dumping on the world, but these people are not soft like in the west. They have endured hardship since whenever and they will win.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 24 2022 1:50 utc | 86

i am with you in all of that peter.... thanks...

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2022 2:04 utc | 87

Allen | Aug 24 2022 1:35 utc | 84

Everywhere you look in the western world there is depravity. The building block of society, the family is nothing. Massive promotion of rainbow flag. The main anger in me is this hypocrisy about democracy and human rights. Sacred cows that are milked for all they're worth. Now a bony old cow on its last legs and still being milked for all it's worth. Used as an excuse for aggression and control. Orwell's sheeple hold their hands up in horror about how bad the target country is.

The bony old cow being milked for the hypocrisy will soon collapse of economic exhaustion.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 24 2022 2:06 utc | 88

On the bright side, reading the NYT has never been easier or faster. Just skim the “hard news” headlines until you get down to the soft human interest stories and the games section Not reading the lie-filled crap stories saves valuable time.

Posted by: Rob | Aug 24 2022 2:10 utc | 89

Never mind street demonstrations, money talks louder.
In addition to the US being the major importer of Pakistan exports, importing more than $5 billion in Pakistani goods in 2021, over the past decade the United States, through USAID, has given Pakistan nearly $7.7 billion of funding. Pakistan remains one of America’s largest recipients of foreign assistance. The Pak army especially benefits from this.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 24 2022 2:13 utc | 90

@bevin | 62
Who said anything about "Socialism"?
This is the problem with USAmericans and the Right wing Europeans now following USA politics. You can't even distinguish Social-Democracy from Socialism.
All you need us a trip to the library, dude...

When I say I like the Nordic Model with a Ghent system a exemplar worker's rights, high and progressive taxes to pay for a good wellfare system and public/state healthcare and education, all this with a regulated enough market economy, I'm not talking about Socialism.

I'm talking about a mixed economy regime with a plural Parliament, that does all the good things that also exist in Cuba, and mixes it with all the good things that exist in USA. Just like China does in a pragmatic way, but obviously not so democratic as the Nordic countries.

That, by the way, is one of Karl Marx lessons in Das Kapital. Use the best Capitalism has. Refuse the worst Capitalism has. So far, the Nordic Model, is the best one putting that idea on practice.

The difference between Marxists and Social-Democrats is that Marxists want to keep replacing Capitalism with Socialism until they achieve a "perfect" Communist society, while Social-Democrats have a more pragmatic approach.

A Socialist says "let's nationalize that, the State does it better". A Capitalist says "let's privatize that, the Capitalist does it better". A Social-Democrat says "let's evaluate the results and see wich one works better in each situation, for the good of all citizens".

And then there are different Social-Democratic views. But if you can't even distinguish Social-Democracy from Socialism, than I'm not even going to start explaining that to you...

What I can tell you is I undetstand why Bernie Sanders felt the need to use the word "Socialism" in USA, even though he is a more Capitalist leaning Social-Democrat. He would be considered Center-Right politician in Scandinavia, or at least one of those Social-Liberals in the Center.

If anyone in USA thinsk "Socialism" when someone else talks about Bernie Sanders or Scandinavia, that's because USA is not a Democracy. It's a freak of nature regime, where people have only one party (NeoLiberal in economy, warmongering in foreign politics) to choose from, but that comes in 2 colors in terms of views for the Society: red for Conservative/Fascist, blue for Libertarian/Woke.

Even China and Cuba have more colors than that inside their "Communist" regimes!!!

Why the commas in this word? Because Cuba isn't really Communist, that's just a historical necessity for anti-imperialism. And China has also a mixed economy, where it applies either Socialism or Capitalism depending on what they think works better in each situation for the benefit of the entire nation.
Neither China nor Cuba are trying the Marxist-Leninist idead of achieving true Communism (the complete end of Capitalism) through Socialism.

More important than all this is the discussion of something else: Europe's greatest weakness is that it went from Industrial Capitalism to Financial Capitalism. Periphery countries got paid to close their industries and open services. The Germans thought this would give them hegemony over the rest of Europe. They forgot they need energy for their industry... Now that Germany might have to stop producing in order to use the available energy to keep its citizens from freezing in the Winter, and periphery countries have no one to sell their services to, what will be of the European economy?

This is the result of excessive market economy, and not enough planed economy. Excessive fanatism from people defending EUropean federalism, and not enough sovereignty. We don't even have enough Agriculture.

If Russia does not sell us its grain, we starve. This is crazy! It wouldn't happen in China.

If inflation goes too high, our wages might not be enough to pay our bills in Southern Europe. This wouldn't happen if we all had a Ghent System empowering workers to demand decent wages, like the Nordic countries have.

If there's a crisis, if the recession is too big, many people won't have money to pay for health insurance, because we imposed market economy there too, instead of keeping it a free (from the user point of view) human right. This won't happen in Cuba.

Even the currency is problem in Europe. We have an €uro completely disfunctional because of market econony fanatism and €uropeanist extremism. Well, in this case all countries in the world with their own real national currency, are a much better example. Well, apart from Zimbabwe...

This is not "Socialism". This is the pragmatic approach of a modern Social-Democrat. If in some cases the best solution sounds Socialist, it should be applied regardless, and the rest of the market economy can stay Capitalist if it works well that way, and the political regime can be very plural and proportional (also something USA doesn't have).

I'll finish with the most ridiculous example, that makes USA's savage NeoLib Capitalism sound like a Taliban middle-age regime: you can fire a pregnant woman, and not give any support nor child leave.
And here I don't even need the Social-Democratic example to compare, because this USA's regime is unthinkable in any civilized country.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Aug 24 2022 3:03 utc | 91

Carlos Marques,

"If inflation goes too high, our wages might not be enough to pay our bills in Southern Europe. This wouldn't happen if we all had a Ghent System empowering workers to demand decent wages, like the Nordic countries have."

Yes. Do not forget that in the still industrialized EU countries like Germany and the nordic states, the welfare state was still doing ok despite numerous neoliberal "reforms" until the "waves" of migrants [refugees from American and UK/EU supported wars] began straining the system giving even more excuses to the capitalist free decentralizing privatizing marketeers for why the system of social democracy cannot work. I have to think that the American neocons and neolibs who architected the wars on ME countries beginning before Dick Cheney had this in mind as a way to "break" the social democratic progressive welfare states of Europe. Where else were all the people fleeing American style "shock and awe" destruction going to go?

In most ways I think you and bevin are in alignment, just talking past one another because you're using different terms and defining them differently. I feel as though I align with both of you. The USA is not a democracy (IT'S A REPUBLIC!!! is what the other side of the aisle screams) but even as a republic it has failed and is attempting to drag the rest of the western world down with itself. No, the USA is not a democracy. Pardon the coming onslaught of hyphenated terms, it is the capitalist-oligarch-managed pseudo-democracy fascist-lite inverted-totalitarian core of the finance-warfare neo-imperium.

Posted by: NewGuyDownUnder | Aug 24 2022 3:29 utc | 92

@ Don Bacon | Aug 24 2022 2:13 utc | 90

usaid... a perfect front for rape and pillage - the american way... did you ever read john perkins book 'confessions of an economic hitman don? - good book!

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2022 3:57 utc | 93

@ Carlos Marques

i dig what you are saying and your perspective... thanks...

@ bevin.. - thanks for the paul robinson link.... i see he made a link to it on his own website.. i was curious about that..

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2022 4:09 utc | 94

can we please not feed the troll and its friends
thank you

Posted by: ld | Aug 24 2022 4:32 utc | 95

After reading this thread well the first 60%, the last portion skimmed, I'm amazed more haven't spotted something which James alluded to when he called out Antonym, that is that the bulk of the anti-Imran and anti-Pakistan posts come from people of Indian heritage.
Some of them are easy to spot, the occasional grammatical errors, minor malapropisms, the type of errors made by english as second language users or particular phrasing which is suggestive of Hindi, but most are obvious because of their deep-seated intolerance of Islam and/or Pakistanis.
Incidentally I'm not in any way accusing MoA correspondent Biswapriya Purkayast of this bias.

Some of the resentment is understandable regarding those Mogul rulers in North India, like all racism the prejudice is essentially a weapon in class warfare, used to keep the masses divided.
In other words if the racist types among Indians kept their resentment focussed on the wealthy elites no one would much care but, as is inevitable in these things this disgusting prejudice is most heavily visited upon ordinary shitkicker Pakistanis, people whose forebears were at least as repressed by the Mogul leaders as Hindus were.
England is to be held to account for this 'divide and rule' appears to have been invented in India, by the East India Company initially then refined by the englander governance of the sub-continent after for the deliberate purpose of making life easy for the Raj.

Even in the dying days of the Raj when cousin of queen elizabeth II and uncle of queen's husband philip (work that one out if you can) louis mountbatten, the man who later tried to organise a coup against the Wilson Labour government in england, was made the last viceroy of india with the job of organising england's handing over of the sub-continent to its own citizens divide and rule was used to ensure england's needs were met, if no one else's.
The mountbattens enjoyed the at that time, peculiarity of england's aristocracy, an open marriage, louis' wife, edwina who appears to have been in charge of the heterosexual aspects of the marriage entered into a relationship with Jawaharlal Nehru, leader of the Hindu faction and first Prime Minister of 'India' shortly after the Mountbatten's arrived in the subcontinent.
I don't normally use wikipedia, ever, but the page on mountbatten appears uniquely objective for a change. Well, at least in so far as it discusses the 'open' nature of their marriage and louis' penchant for pedophilia. Of course it's anybody's guess how long that will last.

Under normal bourgeois conditions edwina & nehru's 'friendship' would have disadvantaged Hindus during frequently tense negotiations between mountbatten, nehru and Islamic representative Muhammad Ali Jinnah but louis 'other interests' which left him indifferent to the burgeoning wifie/nehru tryst combined with the fact that nehru had also attended a decent englander public school making for easy communication plus friends in common, made jinnah the odd man out at the negotiations.
Some pretty blatant incidences of Nehru's lobby getting preference and even deliberate gerrymandering of borders done secretly between mountbatten & nehru caused outrageous messes such as the separation of East Pakistan (now bangladesh) from the rest of Pakistan and the extraordinary decision to make Kashmir a protectorate of India rather then part of Pakistan.

Jinnah was kept in the dark about all of this right up until a few dys before the horror of Partition was visited upon the people of the Indian sub-continent.
Millions died, both hindu and muslim during the year of partition. They were killed because mountbatten was a vainglorious idiot, too concerned with himself and a handful of other englanders to give a toss about the people whose lives he was playing around with.

A neutral statesman given that job of viceroy would have knocked nehru and jinnah's heads together, fessed up to the fact that the hindu versus islam antipathy had been deliberately created in Whitehall to make englander rule easier and then set about being the architect of a republic made up of a federation of states, containing all of the parts of the subcontinent with built in protections for minorities.

This continued hatred for the people of Pakistan expressed here as it is many other forums by the descendants of hindu Indians is in fact just a continuation of the wishes of imperialists. No longer confined just to england, amerika and globalist financiers absolutely love the fact that idiots on both sides can be wound up to proselytise for outcomes which favour them, the imperialists who are thousands of kilometers away from the subcontinent, ahead of their brothers, sisters and cousins just across the way.

Idiocy doesn't really cover it as the bjp, not content with merely making the lives of India's muslim citizens miserable also does over other minorities particularly sikhs as well - see recent farmers' strike.

It is fucking lame to see this whitefella engineered hatred for Pakistanis surface during a discussion of western interference in Pakistan's political system. It is as if some indians are willing to ignore the reality that they will be next if india is deemed by those same imperialists to be 'too close' to Russia just for the sake of scoring a handful of infantile points.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 24 2022 4:37 utc | 96

ld - who is the troll you refer to?

I see much good conversation. Can you tell me who I should ignore?

Posted by: NewGuyDownUnder | Aug 24 2022 4:51 utc | 97

Debsisdead | Aug 24 2022 4:37 utc | 96

Perhaps the long stuff will help others. I'm not up to it.
The user name Antonym is a hindutva troll. No different to the fascists of Ukraine, ISIS , or any other anglo cannon fodder groups. A wannabe groomer like the other I forget the pricks user name that posts here posing as a Ukraine groomer.
The hindutva clown is far more childish than the groomer for the war on Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 24 2022 4:51 utc | 98

can we please not feed the troll and its friends
thank you
Posted by: ld | Aug 24 2022 4:32 utc | 95

If b does not want to block them, I will feed them till they or b chokes. Perhaps b will block me instead. Speaking magnitudes I wont go there. I have children and grandchildren. My children raising their children. Something not many here seem to have. I have no future. My children and their children my grandchildren are the future.

Most of us are at the stage of being soylent green, maggot food, worm food. Our children are the future.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 24 2022 5:27 utc | 99

Posted by: A.z | Aug 23 2022 23:54 utc | 78

the US paid off pakistan generals and politicians to remove Imran Khan when he wouldn't back the US on its disastrous campaign for regime change in Russia.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 24 2022 5:54 utc | 100

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