Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 04, 2022

How Pelosi's Visit Hurts Taiwan

When Nancy Pelosi made her 'woke' flight to Taiwan the U.S. seemed to hope for a Chinese military reaction to it. It positioned an aircraft carrier and two amphibious landing ships in the region. It also shipped additional fighter planes to Japan and South Korea.

Chinese and international commentators drew up potential scenarios for a clash like a forced diversion of Pelosi's plane. However, the Chinese government kept its calm. The reintegration of Taiwan into China is not an urgent matter. It had planned for longer term measures designed to press the pro-independence government in Taiwan into obedience.

Chinese military exercises will now be held around the island without regard for what Taipei claims as its borders. These missile launches, sea and air maneuvers will not be threatening enough to cause a dangerous military confrontation. But they will be repeated over the next years and will steadily move closer and closer to Taiwan's coast.


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The median line between China and Taiwan, never officially recognized but adhered to, will now be ignored.

China essentially decided to boil the proverbial frog of Taiwanese independence by slowly, slowly increasing the pressure:

China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is closing off six areas around Taiwan from Thursday to Sunday and is expected to hold drills, including live-fire exercises, in some areas within 12 miles of the island.

The drills are expected to be bigger than the missile tests China launched during the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis that was sparked in 1995 by the US granting a visa to former Taiwanese President Lee Teng-hui.

Both Chinese and American analysts believe that the unprecedented military exercises could become routine, a consequence of Pelosi’s provocative visit.

Taiwan depends on sea trade. The Chinese military maneuvers will essentially block it for the next few days. It is demonstration of what might come should China get really serious.

This military posturing will be aided by selected economic sanctions designed to remove the support for Taiwan's current pro-independence government:

China also imposed sanctions on Taiwan because of Pelosi, including a ban on the export of natural sand, and a halt on imports of fish and fruit products from the island.

A  ban on the export of natural sand, 90% of which Taiwan imports from China, may sound harmless. But if you live on a rock in an area prone to earthquakes you may want to build your high rises with concrete. No sand no concrete. Building costs in Taiwan will rise and the government will be blamed for it.

Taiwan's soft power will also be curbed:

The authorities will take punitive measures against the "Taiwan Foundation for Democracy" (TFD) and the "International Cooperation and Development Fund" (ICDF), two organizations that have close ties with diehard secessionists, said Ma Xiaoguang, a spokesperson of the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council.

Enterprises that have donated to the two funds, such as Speedtech Energy, Hyweb Technology, Skyla Corporation, Skyeyes GPS Technology, are to be prohibited from conducting any transactions or cooperation with mainland organizations, enterprises and individuals. The persons responsible for these enterprises are banned from entering the mainland.

The people of Taiwan did not support Pelosi's grand standing:

News sites ran polls, with almost two-thirds of UDN’s respondents saying the visit was destabilising. Talk radio discussed preparation and escape plans, and walked listeners through their growing anxieties.

That wasn't helped by Pelosi's tone deafness:

At a news conference with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen on Wednesday, Pelosi was asked what she could offer Taiwan to offset the possible costs the island would incur — including economic retaliation from China — as a consequence of her visit.

She answered that her visit was part of a broader U.S. effort to have “better economic exchanges” with Taiwan, and she said “significant” Taiwanese businesses are already planning to invest in manufacturing in the United States.”

"You will get sanctioned while we will steal your prime advantage in chip manufacturing," is not exactly an uplifting message.

Other countries which Pelosi also visited felt sidelined by her anti-China antics:

Ms. Pelosi’s visit may also damage a push by the White House to shore up support against China from key allies in the region who analysts say have felt sidelined by the trip, and frustrated by the spiraling tensions. With much recent attention eaten up by China’s fulminations over the visit, allies suggested that they wish they had been better consulted ahead of Ms. Pelosi’s journey.

South Korea, where a recent economic imbalance and trade deficit has raised concerns, snubbed Pelosi:

President Yoon Suk-yeol plans to speak by phone with visiting U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi later Thursday, his office said, after officials said earlier that a meeting between the two is not planned as Yoon is on summer vacation.

Pelosi wasn't amused:

Korea Pro @southkoreapro - 2:00 UTC · Aug 4, 2022

Yoon administration and the ROK National Assembly did not send any delegation to welcome Pelosi’s arrival last night. Pelosi was not pleased about the situation, multiple reports said.

All together Pelosi's trip was not the success she may have thought it would be. It was a trap she had set for herself when it first 'leaked' that she would visit Taiwan. If she had not gone the Republicans would have blasted her as a coward. Now she will carry the responsibility for further deteriorating U.S. relations with China.

Taiwan, which all the brouhaha is allegedly about, will further lose in its economic relations with China and will wither away as an economic power.

Eventually the people of Taiwan will vote for another party and unification will again come into sight.

Posted by b on August 4, 2022 at 9:14 UTC | Permalink

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Pepe's take on it. Very clear.

https://thecradle.co/Article/Columns/13830

"The day after, as the narcissist Speaker, so proud of accomplishing her stunt, was awarded the Order of Auspicious Clouds for her promotion of bilateral US-Taiwan relations, the Chinese Foreign Minister issued a sobering comment: the reunification of Taiwan with the mainland is a historical inevitability.

That’s how you focus, strategically, in the long game.

What happens next had already been telegraphed, somewhat hidden in a Global Times report. Here are the two key points:

Point 1: “China will see it as a provocative action permitted by the Biden administration rather than a personal decision made by Pelosi.”

That’s exactly what President Xi Jinping had personally told the teleprompt-reading White House tenant during a tense phone call last week. And that concerns the ultimate red line.

Xi is now reaching the exact same conclusion reached by Russian President Vladimir Putin earlier this year: the United States is “non-agreement capable,” and there’s no point in expecting it to respect diplomacy and/or rule of law in international relations.

Point 2 concerns the consequences, reflecting a consensus among top Chinese analysts that mirrors the consensus at the Politburo: “The Russia-Ukraine crisis has just let the world see the consequence of pushing a major power into a corner… China will steadily speed up its process of reunification and declare the end of US domination of the world order.”

Chess, not checkers

The Sinophobic matrix predictably dismissed Xi’s reaction to the fact on the ground – and in the skies – in Taiwan, complete with rhetoric exposing the “provocation by American reactionaries” and the “uncivilized campaign of the imperialists.”

This may be seen as Xi playing Chairman Mao. He may have a point, but the rhetoric is pro forma. The crucial fact is that Xi was personally humiliated by Washington and so was the Communist Party of China (CPC), a major loss of face – something that in Chinese culture is unforgivable. And all that compounded with a US tactical victory.

So the response will be inevitable, and it will be classic Sun Tzu: calculated, precise, tough, long-term and strategic – not tactical. That takes time because Beijing is not ready yet in an array of mostly technological domains. Putin had to wait years for Russia to act decisively. China’s time will come.

For now, what’s clear is that as much as with Russia-US relations last February, the Rubicon has been crossed in the US-China sphere."

++++++++++++++++++++++++

(What he does not explain, though, is what the Americans thought they might gain by her visit. Personally, I think Pelosi and Biden are both controlled / compromised by taking millions from China and this whole thing was a bit of kabuki to escalate ongoing geopolitical bifurcation.)

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 4 2022 16:53 utc | 101

"And the Pelosi are making money:
'Pelosi’s husband, Paul Pelosi...sold 25,000 shares of Nvidia stock *at a loss* the day before the House passed the CHIPS and Science Act.'"
Emphasis added.

When you talk about money, you always have to talk about how much, compared to what, how often, where and so forth. The details may be tedious but, unfortunately, perspective is quantitative, not just adjectives.


Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 4 2022 17:05 utc | 102

After decades of attacks on education, the arts, and any sort of intelligence in the west, the strategic thinking of the west now closely resembles the comic books that are now the height of art, culture and thinking in the west.

The west is always obsessed with some sort of magic bullet. And I don't mean the one that ended democracy in Daley Plaza, Dallas Texas in 1963. But, the strategic sort of thinking that says "We are going to do this, it will floor the enemy with one punch, and then we can hold the big celebration party and let them pin medals on our chests." Everything is presented in such a way. Nobody thinks even a month ahead, but there is always some big scheme that is absolutely destroy our enemies and make us exceptional and dominant again.

This is how the west thinks in this modern era. And of course, it never quite works out that way.

It is interesting how the old stereotype about the Chinese always thinking and planning long-term has been forgotten in this age where now everyone in the west reasons only in stereotypes. I guess it was an inconvenient stereotype to all who manipulate stereotypes to hold and maintain power in the western oligarchies. It might actually make Americans understand that Biden, Trump, Pelosi, McCarthy, Schumer, McConnell etc, etc, etc are all either complete idiots, or are acting only with regard to their own corruption and making themselves all rich. And that no matter which answer you reach, it is not good for the ordinary people who live in America.

Posted by: Enola Gay | Aug 4 2022 17:11 utc | 103

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 4 2022 16:15 utc | 95

Re US / CIA involvement

Privately, U.S. military attachés in Taipei estimated that the invasion of the island would occur sometime between June 15 and the end of July, and advised Washington to cut official staffing to the bone. . . the Korean War broke out on June 24
SOURCE:
https://www.hoover.org/research/taiwans-secret-ally

The complete history is a little fuzzy but the following is accepted fact.
1) Mao was gathering forces for a planned invasion of Taiwan.
2) The US did not see defending Taiwan as being in the national interest.
3) MacArthur conducted an inspection tour of Taiwan, and was to assume command over the island’s military. MacArthur then returned to Tokyo and the Korean War commenced.
4) MacArthur was in charge of southern Korea from 1945 to 1948 due to the lack of clear orders or initiative from Washington, D.C. There was no plan or guideline given to MacArthur from the Joint Chiefs of Staff or the State Department on how to rule Korea, resulting in a very tumultuous 3 year military occupation that led to the creation of the U.S.-friendly Republic of Korea in 1948. He ordered Lieutenant General John R. Hodge, who accepted the surrender of Japanese forces in southern Korea in September 1945, to govern that area on SCAP's behalf and report to him in Tokyo.
5) There are sources which assert the Korean War commenced by South Korean feint against the North. This precipitated the North's attack on the South in response.
6) The forces assembled by Mao to invade Taiwan were transferred to Manchuria and later employed in the successful counter-attack at the Battle of Unsan. Subsequent Chinese attacks drove the NATO forces back to the present armistice lines along the 38th parallel.

You will note the similarity to the present conflict in 404 notably the use of an attack over here to "manage" a potential liability over there, coupled with the creation of an alliance of the willing happy to engage in a massacre of the Sioux while the available information is used to confuse and misinform the public.

You can replace the word "Sioux" with an ethnicity of your choosing: Iraqi, Mohawk, Filipino, Nicaraguan, Korean. There are near infinite alternate choices.

Posted by: Sushi | Aug 4 2022 17:13 utc | 104

20#
Observer

Racist is right but also chest thumpers who talk tough because they have never had their home invaded and raped and pillaged. This is classic western no nothing belligerence. Clearly observer knows nothing about the relationship of the people of Taiwan. More than likely never been out of the safe west.
Taiwan is economically tied to China, as well as socially tied to China, it is not even a discussion in Taiwan except for the CIA expats and their bought and owned tools. Taiwan could have a referendum now that they actually have the vote which they have not had all that long! The leadership will not let that happen because they know what would happen. I think the Chinese should buy off the leadership of Hawaii and then start a rebellion for independence. The Chinese could send military boats and planes. They could send all kinds of addled dignitaries ( which they actually have dignitaries)

Posted by: Susan | Aug 4 2022 17:30 utc | 105

Scorpion | Aug 4 2022 16:21 utc | 96

...Ukraine has been a basket case for years for absolutely no good reason and now hundreds of men are being butchered every day because people cannot talk to each other properly and do the right thing...

Yeah, this pretty starkly encapsulates the present state of affairs. Not only do we not succour the needy, we butcher them, and make life for any survivors a living hell.

Proof enough that psychopathy reigns on high.

Posted by: john | Aug 4 2022 17:40 utc | 106

Everybody knows that the world depends on Taiwanese chips.

Fewer people know that the specific sand required to make those chips comes from China.
Well, at least until next Wednesday.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202208/03/WS62e9da7ea310fd2b29e70020.html

One more classic example of the US, given an opportunity of shooting itself in the foot, misses, and sends another round into the scrotum.

Posted by: Bilejones | Aug 4 2022 17:41 utc | 107

Again, I ask: b supports the independence of the Donbass; why isn't he supporting the (de facto) independence of Taiwan?

Posted by: Observer | Aug 4 2022 9:50 utc | 7

Yes you ask again but it's still a dumb question.

There's no claim of independence from Donbass to support. But now thanks to the incompetence and the utmost ignorance of US, EU and Ukraine leaders, Donbass will end up Russian. And it's for the best.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 4 2022 17:51 utc | 108

the specific sand required to make those chips comes from China.
@Bilejones | Aug 4 2022 17:41 utc | 107

---

Most wafers come from Japan.

Posted by: too scents | Aug 4 2022 18:22 utc | 109

You can say China "remained calm" but the rest of us see the CCP and its mouthpieces as being borderline hysterical.

Posted by: Observer | Aug 4 2022 9:50 utc | 7

"the rest of us" ... ?? Speak (Write) for yourself, you do not speak (write) for me.

Posted by: SwissGuy | Aug 4 2022 18:48 utc | 110

I think that China will simply cease exporting lithium. That will really make certain U.S. Americans quite unhappy!!!

Posted by: RKJoyce | Aug 4 2022 19:07 utc | 111

Titanium also. Somebody's gonna have some seriously dirty work to do in the Big West!!!

Posted by: RKJoyce - Prophet | Aug 4 2022 19:15 utc | 112

@97 karlof1

Thanks ... The China-Japan angle is interesting. I suppose Japanese politicians have to tread carefully after what happened to Shinzo Abe, whatever their point of view may be. They have reason to be wary of China, but I don't think they'll overlook how EU experience, diving in head-first with the US sanctions program to give up a critical trade partner.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 4 2022 19:29 utc | 113

The global times editorial page is a good place to understand how China feels about things but all the bellicose and potentially violent reactions came from there or similar sources, not the Chinese government. So this idea that China somehow chickened out by not shooting down Pelosi’s plane is just US propaganda. Xi told Biden he’d get burned playing with fire. That’s the actual threat and we know it was taken seriously because the WH has tried saying it can’t control Pelosi blah, blah, blah. We’ll see, but this likely marks the beginning of the end of any constructive US-China relations. That’s a very big deal, even if it wasn’t the violent confrontation many seem to have hoped for.

Posted by: Lex | Aug 4 2022 19:46 utc | 114

People who suggest that China is all talk and no walk, showing themselves up as a paper tiger misunderstand the Chinese mentality. China is very patient and doesn’t act impulsively. They play the long game. It reminds me of a joke I heard in which a Chinese official is asked ‘What do you think the effects of the French Revolution have been on the world’? His answer was ‘It’s too early to tell’!

Posted by: John G | Aug 4 2022 19:47 utc | 115

@Bilejones | Aug 4 2022 17:41 utc | 107
Sorry, no. TW is not a producers of silicon wafers for microprocessors, but among the importeurs with highest demand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_silicon_producers
Quartz sand (pure quartz crystals, grained) is used for producing microelectronic components like quartz glass (fused quartz) for optics, but more important for silicon nitride ceramics, used as mechanical carrier and heat spreader in chip assemblies (billions of pieces per year), absolutely demanding and indispensable.
I didn't look up, where essential producers are located. WP gives no adequate information to the importance of this strategic material. Because of its thermal expansion coefficient very close matched to silicon crystals, TINA ("There Is No Alternative" :-) ).

Posted by: EasternHedgehog | Aug 4 2022 19:58 utc | 116

@Lex | Aug 4 2022 19:46 utc | 114
In a certain aspect, Pelosi did a big favour to PRC - she delivered an effective justification for the chinese government to take hard countermeasures. If they planned to take over TW finally, now the right moment did come - and was provided by the US. Ironics of history, but not clear for me whether they did it intentionally (or if so - from whom) .

Posted by: EasternHedgehog | Aug 4 2022 20:10 utc | 117

Well, i don´t know much about China - Taiwan politics. And i haven´t read all the comments.

BUT, there is something that I miss in all medias, be it chinese or american: Did Taiwan Governement officially invite Nancy??? Or did she just jump on a plane, told the pilot "hey boy, direction Taiwan, or you wanna feel the whip !!" while mummy no1 called the Taiwanese governement, letting them know to better be nice to the old vampyrebat or else getting teached "original murrican values and murrican original democracy"...

While I see the Chinese governement being pretty patient I suspect ol´Nancy invited herself to somebody elses living room.

Please correct me if I´m wrong in that.

Posted by: Massivholz33 | Aug 4 2022 20:12 utc | 118

U.S. Democrats facing serious losses in the November elections are attempting to appear tough on foreign policy (traditionally a Republican strength) first with the Pelosi visit and now the killing of Zawahiri. Much more can and should be said, but this is all politics to the enormous detriment of the Taiwanese people who have been used as pawns in US domestic politics.

Posted by: peter | Aug 4 2022 20:54 utc | 119

Sushi @104--

There was a massive crisis fomented by the Rs after Mao's forces won and the Who Lost China issue became red-hot and ushered in McCarthyism. Neither Formosa or Korea were considered to be part of the Outlaw US Empire's "line of defense" at that time, but that swiftly changed. The trio of Byrnes, Marshall, then Acheson at State from 1945-1953 had a lot to do with the confusion as Acheson revealed in his Present at the Creation memoir. Subsequent documents declassified and published in the Foreign Relations of the United States series shine further light on many aspects in the building of a Global Imperial Policy. Then there was the secret foreign policy pursued by the CIA fascists that was often at odds with official policy. Marshall is mostly responsible for not backing Chaing and Kuomintang. His personal appraisals of Chaing are/were damning as Kolko reveals in his Politics of War. The Modus Vivendi arranged between the Kuomintang and CPC worked well until upset by Imperial Neocons beginning with Reagan/Bush. As we see from our vantagepoint today, there was a mass of confusion with policy as jobs were offshored to what was deemed an existential rival that gravely weakened the Empire while massively boosting China's economic potential. And as we see today, Imperial policy makers still don't know what to do or how to approach China, with the best choice not even open to consideration: Genuinely partnering with China to jointly develop the Global South.

Lex @114--

Yes, Global Times is the place to go, but one must know how to read what its editorial board and the experts they consult write. They got all the moves taken and their timing correct, while the hardline rhetoric was about the same as usual and thus discounted by those of us accustomed to reading it over the last eight years. It helps to recall the audience GT aims at, their Global South allies, while the hardline is reserved for the Outlaw US Empire alone.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2022 21:13 utc | 120

peter @119--

Have you read any independent confirmation as to who the Outlaw US Empire--The Empire of Lies--murdered in Afghanistan?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 4 2022 21:14 utc | 121

All this episode showed is how China is all talk and no walk.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Aug 4 2022 9:21 utc | 1

--------------------

So, you wanted a war?

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 4 2022 21:33 utc | 122

On these matters good to be precise. When KMT retreated to Taiwan, they weren't invading another country. They were losers in a civil war running off to an offshore, more defensible part of the country.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 4 2022 13:20 utc | 63

thank you. I feel i learn a lot about the world, and history, depending on which countries the US is intent on destabilizing at any given time. it seems that the chinese on Taiwan did not like the Kuomintang, who killed thousands in 1947.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 4 2022 21:45 utc | 123

@114 Lex
re: Global Times

The flag-waving and hawkish outlook is clearly the baseline. From time to time though, the English language edition of People's Daily picks up their articles. I haven't been following closely enough in the past to say how often this would happen, but PD ran several of GT's warning pieces in the current crisis. I might give those particular articles a little more weight.

Posted by: ptb | Aug 4 2022 21:46 utc | 124

Wokechoke @ 1 is deeply disappointed that China didn’t launch any ICBMs or otherwise contribute to his war porn fantasies.

Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 4 2022 22:02 utc | 125

When are the democrats going to learn that when you light the wick on a cherry bomb, you do not hold it up next to your face awaiting the results.

Posted by: nwwoods | Aug 4 2022 22:04 utc | 126

For those who think that Tiawan can't politically move towards unification with China, and despite its loses in 2020, the KTM was in control of the government in recent years. It is a pro Cheung Kai-shek [party, yet it supports reunification with China, or it at least opposes independence. Th has allies in some of the other 60 parties in Tiawan.
In the January 2020 legislative elections, the DPP gained 54 percent of the seats in the Legislature, while the KMT secured 34 percent. Other major parties that have a presence in the Legislature include the Taiwan People’s Party, the New Power Party.

Posted by: Guernica | Aug 4 2022 22:36 utc | 127

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 4 2022 15:31 utc | 80:

Thank you very much. Could you please go further and explain why you think Taiwan is holding out? Is it mainly the super rich there who fear losing their edge or the people not trusting CCP or what?

I'm sure BaDaShi would answer you on his/her own, but I couldn't help venturing an answer myself :-). I for one thing think Taiwan is holding out because of stupidity. This kind of human behavioral trait isn't uncommon, you know? Do you ever think of the reason why Christians mostly think their pastor/clergy/bishops/ThePope is closer to this God than they themselves are? I know of no documentations or historical evidences to indicate that that is indeed the case, yet 99% percent of Christians, even ones who owns PhD to their names, do so.

Human stupidity is a curious commodity. Creating the myth of this God is actually proof enough of this stupidity. A God who/it craves human adorations so much as to known to kill whole communities just because some of them don't kiss his/its ass.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 22:41 utc | 128

Today (August 4,2022), Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying: 勿谓言之不预( "don't say I didn't warn you" aka last warning)!

<--- This is the top gear offical warning from China. The exact same phrase China used before entering Korean War and skirmishes with India, Vietnam, and Soviet Union.

The whole transcript of Foreign Ministry's Press Conference is worth of reading.

(Recommend you read b's post about Official Chinese language phrases to express a threat, if you haven't read it.)

Here is the part on video clip: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1gU4y1e7RZ?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click


Posted by: lulu | Aug 4 2022 22:44 utc | 129

Today (August 4, 2022), Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying: 勿谓言之不预("don't say I didn't warn you" aka last warning)!

<----- This is the top gear offical warning from China. The exact same phrase China used before Korean War and skirmishes with India, Vietnam, and Soviet Union.

(Recommend you read b's post about Official Chinese language phrases to express a threat, if you haven't read it.)

Posted by: lulu | Aug 4 2022 22:48 utc | 130

One of my first memories is watching a TV report on the Korean war.
In other words, I've taken an interest in politics for a long time.
Never in all those years have I seen a prominent US political figure behave in a more reckless and irresponsible way than Pelosi did in visiting Taiwan.

Posted by: John Kirsch | Aug 4 2022 23:12 utc | 131

Observer 7
“ Again, I ask: b supports the independence of the Donbass; why isn't he supporting… Taiwan ?”

I have asked myself this same question and gone back and forth on my position. I have worked and lived in both countries and In my heart I do support independence if it were not for Empire and Taiwan being its historic tool.

HOWEVER (sorry for caps), this whole issue is artificial, just like there was no issue with Hong Kong until the US backed colour revolution. Taiwan and China were on track to normalize relations back in 2007. Many Taiwanese were living and working in China (our landlady in Beijing was Taiwanese) and vice versa.

So this is a sad sad geopolitical game - just like the Empire breeding Nazis in Ukraine. It is The Great Satan (as exactly called by Ayatollah Khomeini) being what it is and cannot help but be.

Posted by: Moses22 | Aug 4 2022 23:37 utc | 132

According TW news reports, on August 2 Pelosi's airplane did not dare to flight across South China Sea but did a detour outside South China Sea via Indonisia air space to approach TW after China announced it would hold military exercises in South China Sea, East China Sea and Bohai.

During that time, intensive electronic jamming war was staged around Taiwan and East China Sea. US miliary sent out aircraft carriers, fight jets and electronic jamming from Japanese side.

PLA deployed large scale early warning radars and electronic jamming along the frontline of its Eastern Theatre for detection and counter-detection, jamming and counter-jamming).

Taiwan's military admits that some of its detecting radars went black screen.

Although no direct gun-shot was seen, the electronic war was actually fiercely fought that night.

According to the information disclosed by the TW media, the next step for Taiwan is to observe the scale of PLA's miliary exercises and the reaction of mainland China and PLA, and then decide whether to continue to follow US "Salami slicing tactics".

One of the intelligence mentioned two possible major military actions:

- The first is to openly launch the so called United States, Japan and Taiwan joint exercises, which is a blatant provocation;

- Another is that the commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, including the commander of the Pacific Fleet, may openly visit Taiwan to further provoke, and of course, it is also possible that the generals of the Taiwan military to Guam for the so-called mutual visits.

However, Taiwan's intlligence thinks PLA will also launch additional naval and air force exercises in late August or September in the western Pacific to break the first island chain, and even launch missiles outside of Guam.

<--- ALL depends on what kind of procations US encourages/helps TW to carry out.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 5 2022 0:32 utc | 133

It reminds me of a joke I heard in which a Chinese official is asked ‘What do you think the effects of the French Revolution have been on the world’? His answer was ‘It’s too early to tell’!

Posted by: John G | Aug 4 2022 19:47 utc | 115

That was Kissinger and Zhou Enlai, the most clever foreign minister they ever had.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 1:07 utc | 135

By the way, the Marxist Internet Archive seems to be under DDOS attack.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 1:13 utc | 136

China didn't get lured into a war not at it's time of choosing, it was however gifted the in to blockade the island for the first time. This will become common occurrence, there is no more island border as far as The mainland is concerned. No one side really gained much but the island lost the most. Again when you're a pawn you get sacrificed.
What pelosi might have done is finally awaken the island populace that continually pushing the US agenda will bring it ruin. Aka Ukraine 2.0

Posted by: Nonsensical | Aug 5 2022 1:29 utc | 137

I m no expert in anything but it came to my mind that silicon is made from sand. A key ingredient in the production of computer chips. The main Taiwanese export.

The Chinese may have a certain type of sand more conducive than others in the making of chips x

Posted by: Hornswaggler | Aug 5 2022 1:30 utc | 138

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 4 2022 21:45 utc | 123

There are many tellings of what is now called the 228 incident. I don't have good sources to cite and I don't trust what's written on Wikipedia, although its traditional Chinese page on Wikipedia seems to use fairly neutral language. I didn't bother to read the English page.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 1:38 utc | 139

@lulu, #132:

To stop or curtail Taiwan's 'salami slicing tactics', China would have to orchestrate some events in which some prominent American heads would roll. Heads of Indo-Pacific Commander would do, plus sinking of the Japanese pseudo-carrier, plus some other niceties as yet unidentified. You see, it's not Taiwan wanting to slice the salami. They couldn't help. They are under the spell. It's the Gringos and Japs and stealthy 5-eye operatives who instigate the slicing. These weasels do that because they themselves had nothing to lose so far-any blowback is taken on the chin or burned in Taiwan's pockets.

So when the blowbacks are directed against the above-mentioned operatives, game will change. of course, there is the odds of cool heads lost and nuke heads raised. But sooner or later, China would have to take that chance. I for one would rather go up in smoke with the nuke mushroom than die waiting to see salami not being sliced no mo. One dies sooner or later anyway, no???

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 5 2022 1:42 utc | 140

Posted by: lulu | Aug 5 2022 0:32 utc | 132

> - The first is to openly launch the so called United States, Japan and Taiwan joint exercises, which is a blatant provocation;

This is surely wishful thinking on the part of the Taiwanese.

> - Another is that the commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, including the commander of the Pacific Fleet, may openly visit Taiwan to further provoke

The Chinese have said that armed reunification will start once a US warship parks in a Taiwan port. Unless the Americans are planning to go hot, any such visit will probably come by plane, and there will be cat and mouse games in the air as allegedly happened with Pelosi's flight. While such a visit is certainly provocative, not sure how being sneakingly provocative adds to American prestige.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 1:48 utc | 141

I have not yet seen anyone mention Elbridge Colby, author of The Strategy of Denial and principle author of the 2018 US National Defense Strategy. Andre Damon, in an article titled “Biden wants war with China” published Aug 4 at wsws, writes:

The US geopolitical motivations for going to war with China were laid out by Elbridge Colby, the principal author of the 2018 National Defense Strategy, who declared on Twitter Tuesday that a conflict with China over Taiwan “makes sense for Americans’ concrete economic interests.” Unless China is contained militarily, Colby warns of a future in which “China will have a controlling influence over more than 50 percent of global GDP. It will be the gatekeeper and the center of the global economy.” And, “the yuan will be the dominant currency.”

In his 2021 book The Strategy of Denial, Colby advocates a policy of goading China into military action. “Perhaps the clearest and sometimes the most important way of making sure China is seen this way [as the aggressor] is simply by ensuring that it is the one to strike first. Few human moral intuitions are more deeply rooted than that the one who started it is the aggressor and accordingly the one who presumptively owns a greater share of moral responsibility.”

In other words, the United States is seeking to identify all of China’s “red lines,” cross them, and then pretend to be surprised when China responds with military action.

May he flounder in oblivion, unheard, unheeded, disbelieved and all attempts result in deserved, unwanted, opposite results than intended. Joe Tsu says, whatever man.

Posted by: suzan | Aug 5 2022 2:14 utc | 142

The only just way to have a referendum on Taiwan would be to have a poll restricted to Taiwan's remaining indigenous population which if those who bother to click the link actually read the article attached will see currently amounts to some 400,00 humans. Humans who have been subjected to all the usual genocidal crimes associated with a long list of invader colonists:

"First named Ihla Formosa by Portuguese mariners, Taiwan has been colonized by the Spanish (1626-1642), the Dutch (1624-1662), Ming Dynasty loyalist Koxinga (1662-1683), the Ching Dynasty (1663-1895), the Japanese (1895-1945), and the Republic of China (1945 to the present)."

That is a long list of murdering arseholes, many of whom still hold enough power in this world to ensure that nothing of the kind ever happens - not just because it may not give them the result they are aiming at but because it would set an unwelcome precedent for nations as diverse as Australia, Hawaii, Aotearoa, Canada, Puerto Rico, Guam - even the ultimate genocidal slaughterer itself -amerika.

That said, talk of a resolution of this issue by polling all the current residents is just more imperialist propaganda, designed to give a stamp of approval to outrageous crimes. KMT dictatorship treatment of native Taiwanese following the Chang Kai Shek invasion proved to be even worse than the foul deeds committed by Portugese & Dutch colonists. The last remaining pieces of useful / productive land were confiscated while the indigenous population was kept out of any access to the judicial (often military tribunals), regulatory or political processes.

It must be remembered that by the time KMT families were forced to flee to Taiwan, their forces had been reduced to the criminals left with little choice other than to flee as during the course of the PLA's advance both Mao Zedong and Chou en Lai had made amnesties and deals with all the reasonable opponents who saw which way the wind had blown. Those who left were the families of those whose crimes against the people had been so bad that they believed there could be no forgiveness. Lee was far from the only former japanese occupation collaborator to climb into bed with the KMT. Chiang Kai Shek, greedy, opportunistic and self-interested autocrat that he was, welcomed that scum. An act which precipitated the flight of many reasonable men from the KMT to the CCP. The KMT faction even now retain their patriarchal bent which made the families of those whose males committed these high crimes flee with them.

Since there is no likelihood of a just referendum, it would be moronic to reward the crimes of the original KMT exiles by allowing them to vote on keeping their ill gotten gains.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 5 2022 2:22 utc | 143

Pelosi's visit was certainly detrimental to the world/Taiwan/US security. While I don't agree with those here that think Taiwan should be forcibly/coerced into becoming a Chinese colony*. I see the decent people of Taiwan as the victims of the idiotic foreign policy, of the Clinton/Cheney/Obomber/Biden administration, [singular intended].

One wag suggested, not without cause, that Nancy's Taiwan visit motivation was, to distract from her husband's court case and that, due to the extreme disparity of justice on display in favor of her/her-husband.

*Because it's fashionable to attack people who come to a different POV by immediately categorizing them, I point out, again, Russia is more than justified, understanding that all wars are tragic, in former Ukrainia. Former Ukrainia and Taiwan are not alike in any way, shape or, form. While I respect Lavrov, I disagree with his statements regarding Taiwan in December of 2021.

Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 5 2022 2:47 utc | 144

The Chinese have said that armed reunification will start once a US warship parks in a Taiwan port. Unless the Americans are planning to go hot, any such visit will probably come by plane, and there will be cat and mouse games in the air as allegedly happened with Pelosi's flight. While such a visit is certainly provocative, not sure how being sneakingly provocative adds to American prestige.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 1:48 utc | 140

I'm not sure how saying "we'll go there," then going there while allegedly taking steps not to have the plane shot down in the face of a military threat is being "sneakingly provocative," I'd say that's just "provocative."

As for the bolded part, that's my impression from the pro-CPC-brass crowd: The US is jonesing for a fight. Right? I happen to agree. Also, that CPC leadership is wise not to fall for the "war trap?"

So if that happens and the USS Ronald Reagan sails into Kaohsiung port in full compliance with that theory, what then? "Armed reunification," now or in 10 years?

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 3:02 utc | 145

@Debsisdead, #142:

What you call the 'just way' is only your opinion. I don't see anything just about that. How does one determine who are 'indigenous'? What if those, by virtual of modern-day DNA tracing said to be indigenous, were themselves migrants who came to Taiwan island and wiped out most (but left a few for cross breeding) of the human living there then? How would these people have the legitimate claim to the land, and not those who came a little later and wiped out most of the so-called indigenous? Would New Zealand be willing to have a vote of Maolis to see if they would like to be part of present New Zealand, or be part of Indonesia?

And, results of DNA tracings themselves are nothing but opinions of so-call genetic scientist. As we watch how this COVID pandemic rage among us,we know how feeble and shaky scientists' knowledge actually are, don't we not?

There are certain issues that's not resolvable by rational reasoning, because rationalism is based on one's own biases. We have a situation whereby it's been recognized around the world that Taiwan by virtue of culture, history, language, and location is part of China, and has been for hundreds of years, then as a Chinese I say Taiwan is part of China, whether other people like it or not. Of course, whether I can make that claim stick depends on whether I have to wherewithal to defend it in case someone challenges.

In the 19th century Japan made that challenge and China lost. So Japan got to claim Taiwan for some 50+ years. They in turn lost in the 1940's. Now I don't think they stand a chance to do the same thing again. Nor do I think USA could despite Colby's opinion of now being a better chance of accomplishing the devil's wish.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 5 2022 3:10 utc | 146

Since there is no likelihood of a just referendum, it would be moronic to reward the crimes of the original KMT exiles by allowing them to vote on keeping their ill gotten gains.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 5 2022 2:22 utc | 142

I concur with everything you say but the original KMT exiles are all dead.

What you are arguing, therefore, amounts to the fact that the Taiwanese are not a brother people of China and the only solution to the problem is reintegration by force.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 3:11 utc | 147

How would these people have the legitimate claim to the land, and not those who came a little later and wiped out most of the so-called indigenous? Would New Zealand be willing to have a vote of Maolis to see if they would like to be part of present New Zealand, or be part of Indonesia?

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 5 2022 3:10 utc | 145

Fun fact, nobody is allowed to vote on the future of Tasmania. The British killed every last one of them.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 3:33 utc | 148

There are a number of factors which must be addressed when considering the right/justification/inevitability of a military or forceful take over of any territory. It is always as in politics a balance between moral justification of political reality. I list the following as factors. the more that apply, the mor likely or even justified an attack may be.

First is one power much stronger than the other (or thinks it is). This is a almost an essential one, since little or weak countries will not invade another. This applies to China/Taiwan, Russia/Ukraine and Georgia, the USA/Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria and Vietnam and Panama and and and and. it also applies to semi wars like sanctions. it does not give any moral justification, but it is a statement of real politik, which rational people including the smaller country should consider in their behaviour.

Second, is the nation to be invaded directly near the bigger county's border. This is pretty pretty obvious. it does not give a moral right to invade but does increase the strategic likelihood. This obviously does apply in Ukraine and in Taiwan and I guess also to the role of both Turkey and Israel in Syria. it does NOT apply to NATO or USA or UK involvement in any of the current wars or potential wars.

Third, has the smaller nation expressed hostility toward the bigger one, or more to the point is it involved in alliances or potential alliances with an enemy of the larger country. This starts to become a moral justification for invasive action ie every nation will act to prevent hostile alliance/military on its borders. This obviously does apply for both Ukraine and as China sees it Taiwan. While not the case currently I guess the USA could regard both Cuba and Venezuela in this way (and did in the Cold War).

Fourth does the smaller country occupy a strategic position for the larger country, such that hostile forces if placed there pose an existential threat to the larger nation. This is I think the critical element to think about when considering the right /willingness of one country to invade another. Morally it does give justification if the threat from enemy forces is considered significant and imminent. Obviously this does apply in the Sea of Azov and Crimea, Kherson and Zaporizhia and Donetsk. I think it probably also applies to Odessa and Nikolayev, but a little less so. It would apply to Turkey too, if it decided to block entry to he Black Sea. It also applies to Taiwan and for China, also Korea and Vietnam and also Malaysia because of the importance of the Straits of Malacca.

Fifth, less morally justified, but still a factor in the real world in the resources controlled by the smaller nation. This is not really a major issue for Russia or China at present, but obviously was the real rationale for US attack on Iraq and Syria.

Sixth the attitude of those invaded. Any sensible country, even a very big one, will be reluctant to invade a very hostile neighbour. If there is a sizeable portion of the population that will welcome and invasion and a majority of people whom even if not enthusiastic will have enough, language, cultural or religious ties to shrug their shoulders and say "oh well" then the invader can relax and even feel morally justified if they feel their supporters are repressed politically. This is the situation in Eastern Ukraine and probably Southern Ukraine. it is probably also close to the situation in Taiwan.

Seventh the actual will of the majority of the people in the invaded country. This is important for the long term stability of any invasion. People do have the right to self determination, BUT if they choose this then they must accept that if they form alliances with the enemies of their larger neighbour, their rights will be curtailed. Stay friendly with the big buy next door and he may invite to a BBQ and let your kids swim in his pool. Invite his rivals to throw stones/rubbish at him over your fence, you may find the retaliation is worse than expected.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 5 2022 4:12 utc | 149

Really the trip seems rather pointless - given the disruption it causes for all concerned - and not well planned or thought through.

Which makes me think it is only a political distraction to change the subject from Ukraine.

Posted by: jared | Aug 5 2022 5:11 utc | 150

@ Debsisdead | Aug 5 2022 2:22 utc | 142

**The only just way to have a referendum on Taiwan would be to have a poll restricted to Taiwan's remaining indigenous population**

With all my respect to your opinion, this is called double standards.

A funny news few days ago from Australia: the country will hold a NATION WIDE referendum to give the indigenous people a voice in the parliament.

Posted by: Man | Aug 5 2022 5:25 utc | 151

All this talk about who is and isn't qualified to vote in a Taiwan independence referendum is irrelevant. Facts: DPP and KMT are controlled by the US. Media in Taiwan is controlled by DPP. Taiwan society is heavily propagandized through this media control.

The day of Taiwan's formal independence will be the day of unveiling the US-Taiwan 'defence' pact, with US bases in Taiwan housing missiles pointing at China. This is the geopolitical reality. This is why Taiwan will not be allowed to become independent, because it will only be independent in name.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 5:30 utc | 152

Sick of educating gringo/pommies/ozzies/canucks./euro mugs...
----------------------------
TW faq

TW vs Unpeople

First off,
What's 'unpeople' ?
Russians in Donbass, Kashmiris, Nagas/Manipuris of India, Ryuku Ren, Chagosian, Jeju islanders, Puerto Ricans, GUam, Marshall islanders, Native Americans, Oz Aborigines, NZ Maori, Palestines, Hawaiians,

----------------
I support the UP but not tw .

idiots/trolls

what about tw's right to self determination ?

First off,
Not all independence aspirants are born equal.

If u think it sucks that tw cant partake in WTO as independent nation, try asking them how many wanna be like Nagas, or Kashmiris, or Ryuku Ren , chagosians etc etc..

tw is veritable paradise compared to the UP !

pAiN index..
tw 1 UP 100
no CONTest.

2ndly
tw is armed to the teeth, backed by NATO, QUAD, FUKUSA, NAATO, FIVE LIARS...

UP is completely naked.
Gang raped by the entire EURO/FUKUSA gang

I tend to support the underdog, viz, the UP.

3rdly
tw cause is broadcasted 24x7 by the anglophone, the euro parliaments, their mouthpiece BBC, CNN, FAUX, DE sPEGIEL, ABC, G &M, REUTER, GUARDIAN, SMH..
the entire gawd damned 'international community' shilling for tw.

UP has no voice,

I dont go for the 'trending', PC issues, tw doesnt need me in the first place.
Would rather speak up for the people with no voice.

Conclusion..
On Urgency,
tw 0 UP 100
tw is at the bottom of my priority chart.
--------------------------

nOW get real...
Speaking up for the UP is a positive endeavour, hopefully one day enough voice would join in HElping to plug them from hell.

Encouraging tw independence would be disastrous for tw .
its an invitation for war, sending the complacent rubes from paradise to hell.

Last but not least,
Whats the most urgent call today ?
Entire world under the jackboot of pax murikka


Encouraging tw independence amounts to abetting FUKUS agenda, an unsinkable aircraft carrier right at China's doorstep.

Helping the UP groaning under NATO/FIVE LIARS tyranny is a humane endevour and it weaken the pax murikka hegemon.

QED.

SIGNINg off.

Posted by: denk | Aug 5 2022 5:31 utc | 153

Posted by: denk | Aug 5 2022 5:31 utc | 152

Short comment. Voices are good. Voices alone aren't enough.

I remember the Vietnam demonstrations in Sweden and the KFML(r) (commies) opting out of taking part in what was by then mainstream virtue signaling "for peace," instead choosing to raise money for an anti-aircraft cannon for FNL.

It wasn't much but FNL got their anti-aircraft cannon.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 5:42 utc | 154

Sorry I meant North Vietnamese army, I'm stupid.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 5:45 utc | 155

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 5:42 utc | 154
-------------

short comment..
seems I really misunderstood your post
the other day, please disregard my diatribe.

gotta go now.

Posted by: denk | Aug 5 2022 5:59 utc | 156

Focusing only on Nancy Pelosi, which many people are do, is a diversion or a deliberate psyops.

Far from being an example of her individual idiocy, Pelosi's trip was a calculated American geopolitical provocation supported by the US National Security State to deliberately cross a well-established Chinese red line with respect to Taiwan--just as America crossed a well-established Russian red line in terms of Ukraine.

Pelosi was thus flown to Taiwan on a US military plane with a US naval carrier group in the vicinity. The American regime and military thus helped to plan and facilitate this trip--not just Pelosi herself.

The Machiavellian game America is once again playing is to deliberately provoke a response from a geopolitical adversary in order to paint them as the "aggressor"--which America must heroically defend against.

This is exactly the sinister game that America played against Russia by using its Ukrainian neo-colony.

And this is the sinister game that America is playing against China by using its Taiwanese neo-colony.

And make no mistake, Taiwan is a de facto American neo-colony--just as Ukraine was an American neo-colony until Russia's military intervention.

As Gen. Douglas MacArthur openly boasted, Taiwan is America's unsinkable aircraft carrier.

All the propaganda about "defending democracy and freedom" are complete unadulterated All-American horseshit that Americans tell themselves in order deny this reality and reassure themselves that they are the "Good Guys."

As this WSWS article documents, influential national security figures like Elbridge Colby--who was the principal author of the 2018 US National Defense Strategy--openly "advocates a policy of goading China into military action" and thus weakening it through war.

In short, America seeks to weaponize Taiwan as the Ukraine of Asia.

Biden wants war with China
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/08/04/erpq-a04.html

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 5 2022 6:07 utc | 157

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 5 2022 6:07 utc | 157

I'd say the extent of the war Biden wants with China is debatable, but the problem is, if an asshole just keeps punching you in the face, at some time it's time to punch back.

China can't "avoid a war trap" if the United States keeps waging war on her.

Ukraine is on fire and Russia is bearing the brunt of NATO aggression alone. NATO can in no way, shape or form take on the combined might of Russia and China.

The time to act is now. Break the fuckers.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 6:16 utc | 158

FFS where have all the new dropkicks come to MoA from. The deliberate misinterpretations of my post here make that judgement of 'dropkicks' inarguable. While personally I would be all in favour of Australia, Aotearoa, Canada, Hawaii, Puerto Rico & amerika being made to hold referendums restricted to the descendants of original indigenous people who have been killed & tortured here, there and everywhere that colonisation has occurred I know that unless circumstances change a whole heap there is no chance of such an occurrence. I've worked with/for indigenous humans around the pacific for much of my existence and know very well how this stuff plays out. Australia's indigenous population are likely to be granted some sort of alleged power sharing through an amendment to the constitution some time during the term of this latest neolib administration. I guarantee that there will be no real devolution of power; that whatever indigenous australians end up with will be even less than their comrades across the ditch in Aotearoa copped in 1840.

The reason is simple indigenous australians are unfortunately operating from a position of weakness , whatever they get is dependent on the wishes of the whitefella population who have to approve any constitutional amendment via a referendum of all 'citizens'. Tangata Whenua in Aotearoa were operating from a position of relative strength as the englanders had already only had mixed success crushing the population by force, even that was only because in usual englander imperial divide and rule strategy, a couple of the larger central North Island tribes had been brought onside by them being given the opportunity to have englander support to destroy old enemies, ie other more successful tribes who they believed had taken advantage pre pakeha. The treaty thing was seen by englanders as a quick way out of a situation which had become increasingly embarrassing and even worse expensive. Aotearoa wasn't large enough or resource rich enough to warrant a full on war over.

In Aotearoa the founding document called "the Treaty of Waitangi" is a treaty between the englander queen victoria and a number of, but far from all tribes of Aotearoa. Naturally the englanders tried it on, the treaty was drafted in both english and Maori, but there are differences between the two ocuments when the original Maori one is translated honestly. I won't go into detail about the treaty the land courts which were run by pakeha naturally, also naturally featured a crooked judiciary, as that is not germane to this.

As much as I want a referendum in all those nations, as much as I would like to see that every deportation of an unwhite from england is followed by the deportation to england of a white family of englander descent from the target nation I know it won't happen without major changes to the ways the old rock is run.

The point I made was exactly that no one is going to allow descendants of indigenous Taiwanese to be the arbiters of their future, so how the fuck would a referendum among the descendants of KMT crooks, murderers and quislings be a just outcome? If there cannot be an indigenous vote then any referendum should include all the people of China.
However there is no need for a vote as it has been long established and agreed by nearly every nation on this rock including amerika, that Taiwan is a province of China.

Further since no one can seriously consider amerikan interference in this domestic Chinese matter to be anything other than sour grapes shit-stirring by a mob of arseholes on their last legs as the ironically named 'leaders of the free world' this is an issue that actually requires no input from outside China. Especially not from poorly informed drop-kicks.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 5 2022 6:25 utc | 159

While personally I would be all in favour of Australia, Aotearoa, Canada, Hawaii, Puerto Rico & amerika being made to hold referendums restricted to the descendants of original indigenous people who have been killed & tortured here, there and everywhere that colonisation has occurred

Posted by: Debsisdead | Aug 5 2022 6:25 utc | 159

Okay, so you're on that "racial and ancestral guilt" trip. Got it.

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 7:07 utc | 160

I for one thing think Taiwan is holding out because of stupidity. This kind of human behavioral trait isn't uncommon, you know?

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 4 2022 22:41 utc | 128

There are many tellings of what is now called the 228 incident. I don't have good sources to cite and I don't trust what's written on Wikipedia, although its traditional Chinese page on Wikipedia seems to use fairly neutral language. I didn't bother to read the English page.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 1:38 utc | 139

Bonjour,

IMO, it is unfair to attribute Taiwan's public opinion on stupidity only (and to compare it with Christian belief would require mainly to focus on a very narrow period of European religious history such as the Inquisition). There's indeed something that was done brutally on the long term and on a national scale to erase any sympathy for the Communist mainland. I lived 10 years in China but I didn't know much about this nook in history. Since you cannot suspect Wikipedia of having a penchant for Communism, their French page about the event 228 in 1949 and the years that followed until 1987 is quite informative.

Here's what it says : During the 38 years of terror, 140,000 people, mainly intellectuals or members of the social elite, were imprisoned for fear of their sympathy for the Chinese Communist Party or their resistance to the Nationalist government of the Republic of China, and an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 were executed. (In fact the only thing you can suspect Wikipedia of here is possibly lessening numbers).

It's not hard to guess who's behind that since they practically copycated themselves in Indonesia.

Anyway, you're right, better read books to learn about it. That's on my agenda.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 5 2022 7:19 utc | 161

Debsisdead | Aug 5 2022 6:25 utc | 159

Something that struck in my time with the aboriginal people of the Kimberly's. Their social structure depends very much on their land. Without that the social structure collapses.

The young people would like be able to work and earn a living, to be able to buy the things all young people want, and to be able to raise their families, but that must be in close proximity distance wise to their land.

The young men on/in the communities only knew what their fathers had taught them. They wanted to learn more. There is a huge need for honest people without ideology or racism, regardless of skin colour, to teach those young people skills they wish to learn.

There were some ? reservations? communities? just outside derby for those aboriginals that had been booted off their land. A lot of petty crime in derby for drugs booze ect. These people had mostly lost hope and without their land their society collapsed.

An event that stunned me one day, that I will never forget, when in town getting stores for the the next muster. Aboriginal people would hang around in the carpark at woolworths hoping to get somebody to buy booze for them. A muster for a particular area in the unfenced region would last from six weeks to two months from when we set up the yards until the last cattle were trucked out and weaners and breeders branded ect.

n the camp in the evening we would have two or three fourex tinnies around the fire before the evening meal. For a time there was a whitefella or two but I narrowed that down to just three aboriginal blokes. Old Dougie introduced himself as an alcoholic and never asked for more. The elders at Yulumbu told me I would never get him out of town but he was there waiting for me.

That and the young people in the woolworths carpark. loading groceries - most stuff was by the carton and pallet. I was loading the cartons of beer from the pallet onto the the truck and there's agroup of young people sitting at the curb in front of the truck watching. I had to go back for more stuff and no one to watch the truck. What to do? I asked them to watch the truck for me while I went back to get the other stores. Those young people I will never forget. The honesty and decency when they are treated with respect and trust.

Between doogooder racists and redneck racists, their future is bleak.


Posted by: Peter AU1 | Aug 5 2022 7:28 utc | 162

Here's what it says : During the 38 years of terror, 140,000 people, mainly intellectuals or members of the social elite, were imprisoned for fear of their sympathy for the Chinese Communist Party or their resistance to the Nationalist government of the Republic of China, and an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 were executed. (In fact the only thing you can suspect Wikipedia of here is possibly lessening numbers).

It's not hard to guess who's behind that since they practically copycated themselves in Indonesia.

Anyway, you're right, better read books to learn about it. That's on my agenda.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 5 2022 7:19 utc | 161

Even pro-Taiwanese websites put the numbers at around 20,000. https://www.taiwandc.org/228-intr.htm

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 7:30 utc | 163

Posted by: Tichy | Aug 5 2022 7:30 utc | 163

Thanks for the correction then.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 5 2022 7:59 utc | 164

From my vantage point here in Tokyo across the street from the SDF HQ, I can only agree with b in this article, which expresses all the main points. Japan is an occupied country -- as is South Korea. As I have written on NewsForensics in Substack, US bases are fortresses of occupation-- nothing to do with defense of offense -- just symbols of authority like the Daimyo's castle in Edo Japan. Taiwan is a proxy base, with the US militarizing the locals to protect against a military attack which can never come as I write here:; https://julianmacfarlane.substack.com/p/fortress-taiwan-failk-fall-fallacy . Despite what the MSM says the Chinese would never mount a classic d-day type frontal assault. They wouldn't have to. Russia's defeat of the Maginot Grid in the Ukraine shows the fallacy of the US's 19 century thinking where stockades with the defenders armed with repeating rifles were sufficient to beat off attacks by the "savages" with bows and arrows, the "savages" having already having been ravaged by bio-warfare. Sound familiar. History doesn't repeat as Twain said. It's variations on a theme.

Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Aug 5 2022 8:00 utc | 165

After, military operations were social-economic . The Brits have done unspectacularly militarily (the Battle of Britain was a draw, the air war over France went to the Germans, North Africa was a side show) did area bombing of factories and population centers. The Germans used submarines to cut the UK's supply lines. The US made a lot of money. And, of course, the Pacific War was economic -- i.e., control of oil. Imagine, however, if everyone had atomic weapons! The Germans would take Danzig. No problem. They might take all of Poland, and other non-Soviet Slavic countries for "living room". No invasion of Russia. The Japanese would have expanded to take all of China; also Indonesia. There would be proxy wars all over. But the major powers would sit tight. The US would focus on Latin America. And Harry Truman would never have become President.

WWIII is economic. The US'r us. If you are not American, you do not exist. The US wants to force the Taiwanese to move their industry to the US. Naturally, the don't care about the Taiwanese PEOPLE. The US don't care about their own sheeple, why worry about Taiwan's. But Chinese industry is moving fast, and those fabs in the US will be obsolete before they go online. Silicon out. Graphene in. The Koreans know that which is why Samsung is determined to stay with China. Smart Taiwanese know that too. Russia has stripped the US economic Emperor of all his clothes and his 200 year old
dick is hanging in the wind.

Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Aug 5 2022 8:08 utc | 166

China respond by cutting multiple ties with the US

China reduces ties with US

The ministry released a list of areas in which there will no longer be communication between Chinese and American officials. It includes working meetings between defense departments, maritime security consultation, cooperation on illegal migration, judicial assistance, transnational crime, drug control, and climate change. A planned phone call between senior military commanders of the two nations has also been canceled, the statement said.

https://rt.com/news/560288-china-ties-us-pelosi/

Posted by: Zanon | Aug 5 2022 10:20 utc | 167

Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 4 2022 14:29 utc | 71

And yet in a mainstream journal the true eyewitness account has been available for quite a while:
https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
Nobody died in the square.

Posted by: RB | Aug 5 2022 10:27 utc | 168

Taiwan's claimed Territorial Sea Baseline is not internationally recognized.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Aug 5 2022 10:33 utc | 169

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 1:38 utc | 139

the english page says that somewhere around 20,000 people were killed by the Kuomintang--dissidents, locals. or from another source
"In 1945, 50 years of Japanese rule of Taiwan ended due to Japan's loss in World War II, and in October the United States on behalf of the Allied Forces handed temporary administrative control of Taiwan to the Kuomintang-administered Republic of China (ROC) under General Order No. 1 to handle the surrender of Japanese troops and ruling administration. Local inhabitants became resentful of what they perceived as a high handed and frequently corrupt KMT authorities inclined to the arbitrary seizure of private property and economic mismanagement. The flashpoint in tensions came on February 27 in Taipei, when a dispute between a cigarette vendor and an officer of the Office of Monopoly triggered civil disorder and an open rebellion that lasted for days.[citation needed] The uprising was violently put down by the military of the Republic of China and the island was placed under martial law."
is this inaccurate?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 5 2022 10:38 utc | 170

too scents | 3 : LOL, no! Taiwan is literally a province of China.

Chinese admiral Zheng He 鄭和 1371 – 1433 or 1435 crossed the world's oceans on huge sail ships so technically the Han Ming dynasty could have easily taken Taiwan in, BUT they didn't because:

Huangming zuxun (Ancestral Injunctions of the August Ming) was a collection
of the “royal family rules” which Emperor Hongwu requested his offspring to
follow. It was regarded as the fundamentals of the “founding ancestor.” This work did
not give his offspring “legitimate” authority to dispatch officials to the Western
Oceans. The decisions of Emperor Yongle and Emperor Xuande to send admiral Zheng He
and his followers to the Western Oceans were contrary to the rules stipulated in the
Huangming zuxun . They accounted for the Ming government deliberately “neglecting”
this historical event and scarcity of research information on the study of the subject.
http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/ics/journal/articles/v51p067.pdf

Not interested in aboriginal/ barbarian outlands.

When the Dutch arrived on Formosa island in 1623, they found about 1,500 Chinese visitors and residents.

From 1683 to around 1760, the Qing government limited immigration to Taiwan. Such restriction was relaxed following the 1760s and by 1811 there were more than two million Chinese immigrants on Taiwan.

Taiwan a standard province of China? Which place will be next?

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 5 2022 11:15 utc | 171

I live in Taiwan for 45 years. Let me answer your question. Mainland China offers Taiwan 'One Country, Two Systems' for unification. Taiwanese can keep their lifestyle and political system. Taiwan doesn't have to pay any tax to Mainland China. However, Taiwan has refused to negotiate with mainland China for 30 years and worked very hard to 'internationalize' this issue.
Posted by: BaDaShi | Aug 4 2022 10:55 utc | 15

Thank you very much. Could you please go further and explain why you think Taiwan is holding out? Is it mainly the super rich there who fear losing their edge or the people not trusting CCP or what?
Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 4 2022 15:31 utc | 80

I'll skip the very complicated Chinese history starting from 1600AD because it's too much for most non-Chinese. I was born in Taiwan. In my elementary school days my classmates and I were taught (by KMT regime, the Chinese Nationalist Party) that we are Chinese, the name of our country is 'Republic of China', the territory of our country includes mainland China and Taiwan, the highest mountain of our country is Mount Everest, the longest river of our country is Yangtze River, we students should study hard and when we grew up we should work hard for the unification of our country, let all of the one billion Chinese people live a good life.
Around 35 years ago the top ruling class of KMT was infiltrated by pro-independence forces (supported by the US, unofficially of course). The pro-independence forces controlled the MSM and the education system of Taiwan and slowly changed the 'we are Chinese' narrative. The new narrative is 'we are Taiwanese, we have nothing to do with China, China is a hostile foreign country that keeps threatening to invade our country, the name of our country is "Republic of China" , we want to change it but the evil China won't let us do it, we will change it some day in the future, the highest mountain of our country is Mount Jade, the longest river of our country is (a river so small that you can't even find by googling it)'. The pro-independence forces have worked very hard for more than 30 years and they succeed. Great success in fact. More than 70% of Taiwanese that are 43 years old or younger are pro-independence and think they have nothing to do with China. The consequence is that the peaceful unification between mainland China and Taiwan is absolutely impossible now.

Posted by: BaDaShi | Aug 5 2022 11:16 utc | 172

Posted by: BaDaShi | Aug 5 2022 11:16 utc | 172

Really appreciate you sharing the additional angle - very interesting

Posted by: Iraeis | Aug 5 2022 11:21 utc | 173

Posted by: BaDaShi | Aug 5 2022 11:16 utc | 172

Thanks for your insight.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Aug 5 2022 11:25 utc | 174

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/08/endgame-taiwan-us-plans-further-china-eyepoking-with-planned-military-transit-of-the-taiwan-strait.html

a significant quote
"But the even bigger offense from China’s perspective has been the arming of Taiwan, since many of the supposedly defensive weapons the US has been selling to Taiwan also have offensive uses. And China was never going to tolerate an unduly well-equipped Taiwan.

Even though China’s screechiness in the runup to Pelosi’s visit was aimed at the US, it was also a warning to Taiwan. Former colonel Douglas MacGregor explained why a garrisoned Taiwan, which is clearly where the US, in shades of Ukraine, looked to be taking matters, is an existential threat to China:"

yep. same strategy as with Ukraine.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 5 2022 11:35 utc | 175

The consequence is that the peaceful unification between mainland China and Taiwan is absolutely impossible now.

Posted by: BaDaShi | Aug 5 2022 11:16 utc | 172

Thank you for your insight.

If a peaceful unification is now impossible what do you think will happen in the future? Will Taiwan stay de facto independent or do you think China will re-unify by force?

Posted by: Down South | Aug 5 2022 11:48 utc | 176

Posted by: Down South | Aug 5 2022 11:48 utc | 177

What do you think about regime change backed by forces? Pro Reunification is small part of Taiwan but they do exist. Most are happy with status quo which DPP or Tsa Ing Wen definitely aren't happy with.

Posted by: Lucci | Aug 5 2022 11:58 utc | 177

What do you think about regime change backed by forces?

Posted by: Lucci | Aug 5 2022 11:58 utc | 178

I’ve advocated for a peaceful solution to the question.

Posted by: Down South | Aug 5 2022 12:07 utc | 178

Posted by: Down South | Aug 5 2022 11:48 utc | 177

de facto independence will only be allowed by the PRC with a government and population that strongly identifies as Chinese and act in the interest of all of China. Ironically, Taiwan's drift away from the Chinese identity is precisely what's driving up the urgency of the Taiwan problem in China, promoting the appeal of an accelerated and forced solution.

Posted by: Iraeis | Aug 5 2022 12:17 utc | 179

We normally think of the US policies as myopic. And yet it is clear that it was a very long term policy to change the society in Taiwan. Same in Ukraine, where it started before 2004 Orange Revolution. The US is very skilled in this area, CIA and then NED have had an immense soft (sometimes hard) power over many societies. It’s not going to be easy to change it. The Swedish example of tv viewers objecting to Reuters factual report from Kherson confirms the power of this conditioning.

Posted by: RB | Aug 5 2022 12:29 utc | 180

George "Dubya" Bush ... "I am the Decider!"

Joe Biden: "I don't get to decide nuthin."

As usual, in both cases, The Great White Chief In Washington Speaks with Forked Tongues.
The ghosts of massacred Amerindians can be heard to say "we tried to warn you."

Posted by: Blanca Rose | Aug 5 2022 12:47 utc | 181

The Great Chief is now complaining, saying that the Chinese are evil, because they won't talk to the Great Chief on issues like 'climate' and 'military'.

Why should the Chinese talk? They just had a face to face conversation, leader to leader, and Joe Biden lied to their face. Joe Biden solemnly declared respect for the 'one-china' principle. Then, a week later ....

So, why should the Chinese talk to the Americans if what the Americans say can not be believed nor trusted?
It does not matter why, what BS reason the Americans give. It does not matter about separation of powers, nor any of the rest of the BS. Because, if other world leaders can not talk to Joe Biden, who can they talk to? Are they supposed to call up the head of JP Morgan, or of Alphabet directly?

The problem the Americans have is that the word of the Americans is not worth warm dog poop. This is a huge problem for the American people. Because it means there is no reason for anyone else to even bother with talking to the Americans. I can not imagine that Xi wanted to spend 2 whole hours talking to Joe Biden. And it turns out to have been a waste of time, and Joe Biden can not be believed in anything he says, as has been very publicly demonstrated. So, why on earth would Xi want to waste more time in the future? Why bother?

This of course is what is described by the rest of the world as 'American Arrogance'. It is a very arrogant attitude to say that one's word, one's honor does not matter. That might makes right. The American arrogance is that of a gangster who believes that their offers can not be refused. The problem for Americans is that if one is not strong enough to dominate all and crush all, then one needs the ability to negotiate. Even the old gangsters had their consignilieres who could talk to the other gangsters and have their word still trusted.

The American people are finding themselves in the very bad position of no longer having the power to dominate and crush all, and also of not being trusted and having the world believe that the word of Americans is worthless, even if the world gets it in writing. And, once the American fantasy of being a superhero has passed, Americans are going to want to talk. And then find like all serial liars, that nobody else wants to listen.

Posted by: Blanca Rose | Aug 5 2022 13:01 utc | 182

"The US is very skilled in this area, CIA and then NED have had an immense soft (sometimes hard) power over many societies. It’s not going to be easy to change it. "
Posted by: RB | Aug 5 2022 12:29 utc | 181

What makes this very difficult to change is that the change must begin within the society where the CIA wields the greatest control. Where the CIA has had to maintain control, in order to protect its budgets.... The United States of America. Run by the CIA since at least Nov 23, 1963.

Posted by: Blanca Rose | Aug 5 2022 13:05 utc | 183

USA democracy in action:

Despite deep skepticism of U.S. intervention abroad among the American people, leaders in both parties seem to understand that the United States has a duty and an interest in exerting active leadership and pushing back against America’s adversaries in both Europe and Asia.

The skeptics are wrong: The U.S. can confront both China and Russia

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 5 2022 13:15 utc | 184

I’ve advocated for a peaceful solution to the question.
Posted by: Down South | Aug 5 2022 12:07 utc | 179

Peaceft solutions can only happen when Taiwanese leadership were replaced with people's that are more pragmatic. DPP bid to cling to power by using 'Independence' goal through US backing would prevent that from happening.

Most Taiwanese are happy with status quo, some are radical pro independence, some have pro reunification. DPP ruling have been disastrous for awhile which given KMT chances to win next election cycles. These are the root of the current immediate situation, DPP cling to power by creating outside enemies and drumming up for 'rally around the flag' calls to the masses.

Posted by: Lucci | Aug 5 2022 13:29 utc | 185

Very curious what the Russian takes are, on the Chinese response - especially after their declared support for China prior to Pelosi landing

Posted by: Iraeis | Aug 5 2022 14:49 utc | 186

I think some Russians are disappointed that China did not instantly invade Taiwan (like Andrei Martyanov who posts military videos on Saker, I think even Kadyrov was disappointed). But people have to realize that China thinks long term and they still need to do things like Russia has done in fully modernizing their military (especially submarines) and achieving self-sufficiency in key technologies/resources. Most importantly, they want a peaceful reunification like with Hong Kong and Macau but that requires a sufficient build up of the army to make it clear to outsiders getting uppity. For instance, if I remember right, Margaret Thatcher had gotten quite a bit uppity about wanting Hong Kong to remain under UK rule for longer and Deng Xiaoping made it very clear to her that if they really wanted to go that way, China could simply either blockade or just walk into Hong Kong that afternoon to settle the matter and that it would be better if they just negotiated instead. Taiwan is a bit further away and has had Americans basically run its media and education system for a while, so the necessary build up will take longer but it will be there.

Posted by: leaf | Aug 5 2022 15:01 utc | 187

Battle ready nation vs non Battle ready nation

US knows the limitations of CN. Military establishment to defend what they think is their right may be different from political thinking even though it may sound absurd which is not. Constant battle readiness of USA will always have the advantages, needless to say there are such words aggressiveness and non aggressiveness of nations which might also play as factors. That doesn't guarantee a predictable outcome as history also constantly reminding us and the nuclear factor.Doesn't mean tit for tat will not take place or real decisive thing happening ala world war II at a unthinkable cost.

In future CN may be the next US who knows. RU thinks and can act as US unlike the present CN which we are observing (Ukraine). Territorial integrity,sovereignty of small nations and large nations with historical rich and questionable backgrounds need to be addressed in a intertwined land-eco-politics that is geopolitics but most of us always busy doing this or that and seasoned voices are usually not enough to address the world. May be the so called connected virtual world will rise their best and shake the world we are living.

I like to imagine that if CN do take control of Taiwan how would they deal the mass in cooperation if it is the case, how long they will suppress and what cost so many questions. not so many a crucial one which also the case for Ukraine and RU or like what happened US and Afghanistan or others

I also like to imagine other cases for example that is non military prowess which some comments already addressing.

And important thing as some other articles suggesting we are always in a whirlwind of narrative change offs" concentrating issues on hand will take a toll on all of us.

Posted by: _mECHO | Aug 5 2022 15:16 utc | 188

#188 _mECHO

Here's my problem. I don't think Mrikan planners have any understanding of CCP or RF planning.

They project. They assume their self-declared enemies will behave in the same manner they would.

2

Posted by: Ant. | Aug 5 2022 15:45 utc | 189

BaDaShi @172: "The consequence is that the peaceful unification between mainland China and Taiwan is absolutely impossible now."

Don't say "impossible".

Yes, the anti-Chinese brainwashing has been hardcore for decades in Taiwan, but how do you brainwash millions of people to fantasize that they are something that they are not? How can that kind of brainwashing even take hold at all?

In fact that kind of brainwashing is no different than what has been unleashed on many American children as well. You teach the children to be ashamed of who and what they are. Load the kids up with "Original Sin". Worked great for centuries for the Xtian churches so why not recycle the same kind of mind control? Black children in America are ashamed of their Blackness because contemporary Black American culture, as filtered and amplified by big business mass media, is absolute shit. American Black masculinity is so insanely toxic that it is lethal and "official" Black beauty standards are repulsive, yet Black kids are forced to identify with this racial social construct that leaves them nothing to feel good about. The "Critical Race Theory" nonsense that is forced down school kids' throats to make the whitish ones ashamed has been discussed sufficiently that we needn't dwell on it here beyond noting the self-loathing it is intended to impart in a portion of the population. The current mutation of "feminism" in the West from something positive several generations ago now denigrates femininity itself! Girls are indoctrinated to believe that to be "empowered" they must embrace the tropes of masculinity. Of course it is impossible for them to do so authentically, so they are left ashamed of their femaleness. Great work fourth (or fifth? Sixth?) wave feminism!

Of course some of this psychological programming works on Chinese kids too, and a major vector of delivery is pop culture. The more exposure to pop culture manufactured by western big businesses the more psychological damage that is done. But Chinese kids get special attention too in order to amplify their shame of their Chinese-ness specifically. China and its population are constantly associated with backwardness, ignorance, provincialism, and clumsy incompetence in all media, not just school textbooks. Every single article or program in western media (and that includes corporate mass media in Taiwan) that references China must have a net negative spin. Consider the recent launch of the second module of China's space station. Despite what a monumental achievement this was all westernized mass media focused on "Yeah, but America did that too, and the Chinese space station is still smaller than the ISS, and someone could have been hurt when the booster the Chinese used fell back to Earth!"

Every single program/article/video produced by the westernized big business mass media that references China always spins negative 100% of the time. China develops a great new agricultural technique? Yeah, but pollution... China makes another remarkable advance in green energy? Yeah, but Uighurs... China makes big strides towards reducing pollution? Yeah, but at what cost? I challenge the reader to find exceptions to defend the scumbag, diseased presstitutes, all of whom view themselves as frontline troops ideologically defending the Empire of Lies & Delusions.

At the same time America presents to the world as the "Shining City on the Hill". Sure, we who live here know that shine is just the klieg lights and security floods reflecting off the wings of the flies swarming over the huge heaps of feces that American cities have become, but small children in Taiwan only see America after the editing and post-production. They see a magical place that is so much better than anything Chinese, and so they fantasize that they are western and not Chinese, much like how emotionally abused young white boys fantasizes that they are actually girls, or pandas, or what have you.

But the world is changing. America's "soft power" is waning, and along with that decline America is losing its ability to brainwash the provincials. Thirty-five years ago every Soviet citizen was certain their lives would have been better if only they had the good fortune of being born in America. That is down to small percentages now in Russia. The same has happened in China, and the delusion of American exceptionality only persists in Taiwan because of extreme censorship and false narrative production. The brainwashing could initially work because the mainland had huge problems to deal with. Now that many of those problems have been resolved the brainwashing relies entirely upon delusion, and that delusion is drifting progressively further from reality.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 5 2022 16:03 utc | 190

@172 BaDaShi

To respond and correct your post, I must point out Chinese history goes back many thousands of years than your limp claim of '1600 AD'. more likely 2000 BCE:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xia_dynasty

Otherwise, I agree with the 'Johnny-come-lately' Yankees being stupidly arrogant and think they have utter control over the universe.... only those 30-odd western countries that don't have a real government eagerly agree, just a set of malleable puppets.

Say jump, how high?


Posted by: Ant. | Aug 5 2022 16:05 utc | 191

Poll-based Infographic:

Pelosi vows Outlaw US Empire won't abandon Taiwan like it has every other pseudo-ally. "78% of Taiwan residents have little or no confidence in Pelosi's pledge."

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2022 16:17 utc | 192

Posted by: Ant. | Aug 5 2022 16:05 utc | 191

He's talking about Taiwan becoming part of China in the 1600s after the Ming kicked out would-be Dutch and Portugeuse imperialists and claimed Taiwan officially. In his post he said he attended school in Taiwan before their de-sinicization, he knows this stuff.

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 16:27 utc | 193

Posted by: leaf | Aug 5 2022 15:01 utc | 187
Interesting. Here's hoping that they wont be so disappointed with long term outcomes. As pointed out by some barflies, there's more than just western reaction to observe, but I guess in Russia's case it doesn't diverge too much.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 5 2022 16:03 utc | 190
well said. I think the Russians were very on point when they accused the US of "mirroring" their own problems and faults onto others. Seems effective - I get the impression that most Americans buy it. Not that I care if they think another country is a shithole, but I do wish they saw through their foreign policy as the institutionalized exportation of misery that it is. If you're going to make other people's lives shit, the least you could do is to acknowledge it

Posted by: Ant. | Aug 5 2022 16:05 utc | 191
Yes yes, China very long history, no need to remind us. Clearly didn't take note of the context, as pointed out in:
Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Aug 5 2022 16:27 utc | 193

Posted by: Iraeis | Aug 5 2022 17:04 utc | 194

China Announces Countermeasures in Response to Nancy Pelosi’s Visit to Taiwan:

1.Canceling China-U.S. Theater Commanders Talk.

2.Canceling China-U.S. Defense Policy Coordination Talks (DPCT).

3.Canceling China-U.S. Military Maritime Consultative Agreement (MMCA) meetings.

4.Suspending China-U.S. cooperation on the repatriation of illegal immigrants.

5.Suspending China-U.S. cooperation on legal assistance in criminal matters.

6.Suspending China-U.S. cooperation against transnational crimes.

7.Suspending China-U.S. counternarcotics cooperation.

8.Suspending China-U.S. talks on climate change.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 5 2022 18:02 utc | 195

The problem China faces, like Russia, like Iran, is that any restraint, any moderation by China is just taken for weakness by the Neocons and Ziocons, who then double down. Then they react with shock/ horror/ gasp/ outrage! when the victim eventually acts after being provoked beyond endurance, as with Russia's SMO. China could just cut diplomatic relations with Washington or take some action like banning US soya beans, that will hit Uncle Sam hard. But China will bide its time and hit back. The only thing Uncle Sam understands is a good hard kick in the balls. What this does is make it obvious to China, as if any further evidence was required, that conflict with the JewSA is inevitable, and it needs to solidify its alliance with Russia and expand the SCO/BRI AND SET UP A COMPLETELY NEW FINANCIAL AND ECONOMIC STRUCTURE outside the western orbit. This is happening and it is what will bring down the Empire Of Lies.

Posted by: paul | Aug 5 2022 18:07 utc | 196

In response to Pelosi’s egregious provocation, China decides to adopt sanctions on Pelosi and her immediate family members in accordance with relevant laws of the People’s Republic of China.

Pelosi's husband and son have been raking in the money in China . Half of her husband's investment fund is invested in Chinese companies.

Paul Pelosi Jr. also makes tons of $$$ in Chinese tech companies.

Now China forbids her husband and son to do business in China.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 5 2022 18:22 utc | 197

Posted by: Iraeis | Aug 5 2022 14:49 utc | 186

They’re not impressed. Also Martyanov points out why China had to blink,

……but there is absolutely no doubt about the United States being a naval power, which DOES think and, in fact, HAS the means to impose some solution on China as long as the naval forces are involved directly. It is the only field in which the United States has an upper hand over China. I already presented on a number of occasions the comparison between he US Navy's and PLAN's submarine forces. Taiwan is an island, and unlike Georgia, let alone Syria and most of Ukraine, which Russia never declared as its territories, Taiwan for China is a huge, existential issue. Taiwan officially is considered by international community as part of mainland China, which has its semi-official status "temporarily". But because it is the island, and because the United States Navy can bring a massive firepower near it, the US has the escalation dominance here. And China knows it and she blinked.

http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/08/ok-lets-cut-crap.html?m=1

Even Kadyrov was scathing (as quoted in the linked article)

Why did they engage in fear-mongering, scaring people, creating the noise, when one could have allowed poor grandma to calmly fly to Taiwan. Everything could have been arranged calmly, silently, but no, poor grandma was being frightened with fighters, Air Defense, destroyers and loud statements.


Posted by: Down South | Aug 5 2022 18:22 utc | 198

lulu @195--

Thanks for the list. Today, Lavrov performed an act in tandem with Wang Yi I've never seen him do in all the years I've followed his activities as reported here but not yet in Russian media, "China justly reacts against Japanese meddling as Tokyo shifts to US line on Taiwan":

"On Friday, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov left their seats [walked out], which media reports said was a 'protest' over Japan's criticism on China's military drills and Russia's actions in Ukraine."

The article details the rapid deterioration of China-Japan relations. IMO, Japan ought to fly the Outlaw US Empire's Stars & Stripes above its Rising Sun on flagstaffs nationally to reflect reality--Japan is a Colony just as South Asia was subordinate to the UK for far too many years. Japan would be much better off today if it had been occupied by Chinese or Russian troops after WW2. That it's loyal to the nation that nuked its innocent civilians in an act of genocide beggars belief, but proof is provided daily.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2022 18:29 utc | 199

Down South @198--

Martyanov's tirade against China was 100% wrong. The USN is completely outmatched when in close proximity to China. Out by Guam, the story's different, but that's not where Taiwan is. His commentariat failed to call him out on that, too.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2022 18:34 utc | 200

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