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July 30, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-117
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@circumspect, Petri Krohn, BroncoBilly & others
Thanks for your explanations!
Posted by: SwissGuy | Jul 30 2022 20:32 utc | 101
I think various things are being missed here which I believe are quite important. Firstly, it is hidden in plain sight that Zelensky is clearly in the descent towards serious paranoia which is dangerous. Very dangerous. The evidence is clear. the ‘kill list’ Ukraine has including a 13yr old girl, is supported by him and he probably contributes names to it. He recently sent a list of American Citizens including Rand Paul, Glenn Greenwald and others for the USA to sanction or to take action against. The people on it are journalists and others who have expressed criticism and concern about the Ukraine Govt and are critical of how Ukraine is soaking up weapons and money delivered by the West. He has just undertaken an extraordinary purge of numerous high level Ukranian politicians and related public officials on the basis of ‘Treason’. He has wiped out all the opposition (except the Nazi Opposition Party) and closed all their outlets and arrested one of its leaders for Treason. He has threatened North Korea because they recognised the two independent republics. He, I strongly believe, gave the order to use HIMARs against the POW camp because he knows the POW’s are making statements that show his Government in a true and very distasteful light. He is suffering from serious delusions about retaking occupied territory. He is totally ignoring advice from Zhulezny (Head of Ukrainian Armed Forces) and has initiated a draconian conscription action that effectively, sends the conscripts to certain death, without batting an eyelid or expressing remote concern about this course of action. He is drunk with power and paranoia. There are many more issues I could list here but it would be too long. He is at the point where he is scrabbling around to justify his decisions and also, he is taking all of this very personally. Anybody who criticises him he makes totally irresponsible retorts. He wants the world banks charged with crimes against humanity (without of course, considering the atrocities the UAF have committed over the past 8yrs and the Azov Battalion in particular). In the midst of sending thousands and thousands of conscripts to certain death in the Donbass, ignoring military advice, purging his administration of top officials on the basis of ‘treason’, threatening North Korea, World Banks and other Politicians, journalists and others who are critical of him, he does a photoshoot for Vogue with his wife. Narcissism at its very worst. This whole thing is just a way of lining his wallet for a lucrative life in the USA no more no less. He is evil, with an advanced narcisstic personality disorder and descending into paranoia, fast. It makes him one hell of a dangerous individual in the world today. I sincerely hope the Russian Army arrest and imprison him for War Crimes. I hope they arrest his close group i.e. Arestovich et al for the same reasons. As an alternative, I would like to see a military coup in Ukraine to oust him once and for all. All his assets abroad need to be seized in keeping with current Western trends. Shame on the collective West for supporting this man. It says a lot about the world we live in.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jul 30 2022 21:00 utc | 102
Scotch Bingeington @ 104
I had a look at the Bundeswehr inventory and I was absolutely shocked to learn that ‘we’ have around 100 self-propelled howitzers for artillery. That is it, there’s nothing else left with a big barrel.
They stole it all, well, 95% of it, for 77 years. NATO’s a colossal grift, even bigger than the USA, which is hard to believe. I’ve come to realize as sick as the USA is the EU is much sicker. Knowing the civil institutions (national health, free university, etc.) I’d always given the EU more credit. The Russians might as well march straight to the Atlantic.
This is How Much NATO Countries Spend on Defense
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/this-is-how-much-nato-countries-spend-on-defense/
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jul 30 2022 21:20 utc | 103
Ukrainian ship hit a mine at the mouth of the Danube today.
According to [National Defense Control Center of the Russian Federation, Colonel-General Mikhail Mizintsev], the vessel of the hydrographic service of Ukraine was blown up by a Ukrainian drifting mine on Thursday “when measuring the depths of the fairway at the mouth of the Danube River.”
In six ports (Kherson, Nikolaev, Chernomorsk, Ochakov, Odessa and Yuzhny), 70 foreign ships from 16 states remain blocked. The threat of shelling and the high mine danger created by official Kyiv do not allow ships to go to the open sea without hindrance,” Mizintsev said
According to Interfx.ua summary of trilateral safety documents only Odesa, Chornomorsk and Pivdenny are covered, and
Should demining be required, a minesweeper of another country shall sweep the approaches to the Ukrainian ports
although Draghi purportedly said in the final leg of negotiaion that the plan was “very encouraging” as it did not require de-mining of UA ports, because Kiev said proposal under discussion would mean no need to de-mine waters to get grain moving.
I’ve no doubt, Ukrainians and Britons ignore the meaning of moral hazard, as Lloyd is already writing UA coverage for Black Sea grain shipments. But does vdL?
Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 30 2022 21:26 utc | 104
@accountant #90:
f I understand it, you’re getting weekly totals by subtracting each week’s cumulative total from the one before it, right?
Yes.
If that’s the case, a much more likely cause would be reversing the digits in the thousands and hundreds, which would be a difference of 900 times the difference in the switched digits. (E.g. 2100-1200=900.) What were the cumulative totals that you’re basing that week on?
Here’s the news item covering June 23 briefing (emphasis added):
Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (June 23, 2022, 12:30 MSK)
…
In total, 211 airplanes and 132 helicopters, 1,329 unmanned aerial vehicles, 349 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,750 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 647 combat vehicles equipped with multiple rocket-launching systems, 2,088 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 3,818 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.
And here’s the news item covering June 24 briefing (emphasis added):
Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (June 24, 2022, 12:10 MSK)
…
In total, 213 airplanes and 132 helicopters, 1,334 unmanned aerial vehicles, 350 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,769 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 659 combat vehicles equipped with multiple rocket-launching systems, 3,002 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 3,835 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.
So, in just one day, from the morning of June 23 until the morning of June 24, Russian forces have allegedly destroyed 3002 − 2088 = 914 field artillery cannons and mortars. Which is impossible. Following briefings continued with 3xxx figures. This must have been a data entry error that Russian MoD hasn’t noticed or has decided not to correct.
Another possible explanation is that there has been a change in methodology, effective June 24, which added a new type of artillery to the artillery total—a type they’ve been diligently counting during the entire special military operation, but for some strange reason weren’t previously reporting in any category. I think that’s extremely unlikely, so I stick with with my “data entry error” explanation.
Posted by: S | Jul 30 2022 21:30 utc | 105
reply to 106
What the heck is wrong with Zelensky? I have been concerned that Ritter had a point about Russia being unable to capture large cities but that problem gets solved if they get evacuated ! And small towns, like wise. Just level them and rebuild later.
I’m not complaining here but this gets weird.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 30 2022 21:30 utc | 106
Eighthman | Jul 30 2022 21:30 utc | 113
I doubt Russia has any intentions of using military force to capture anymore large cities as they did at Mariupol. Clear the Ukraine military from Donetsk region and that’s it as far as taking ground.
By the time that is achieved, Ukraine will be running low on Ukrainians.
As for how much territory Russia intends to take – Lavrov clearly stated it in a speech some time back.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 30 2022 21:39 utc | 107
I have no idea which side attacked the prison (precisely targeting one cell without harming any guards). It seems like Russia/proxies have a greater motive, though. They’ve discussed a desire to execute Azov prisoners, but safety of POWs from the surrender deal at Azovstal was guaranteed by the UN if I recall correctly (ok, that doesn’t mean much) and obviously doing that would be a major war crime. They have exchange value as prisoners, but giving them up is unpopular and caused backlash when they traded some Azov guys back for pilots. And since Ukraine wants them back, they get in the way of other prisoner exchanges that Russia could agree to. So killing them and blaming it on the enemy is “logical”.
But I don’t have any sort of high confidence that happened, and I’m open to the possibility Ukraine struck the prison, perhaps as a counter-battery fire mission gone wrong or any number of other things.
One possibility that can be ruled out pretty clearly based on satellite photos is a GMLRS i.e. HIMARS strike, 200lbs of HE designed to maximize blast effects would result in vastly more structural damage than this. So Russia is lying about that part at least. Perhaps their claim that the exact same fragments-on-a-bench footage was from a strike in Zaporizhya is accurate.
https://twitter.com/BenDoBrown/status/1553469931739664386
Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 30 2022 21:39 utc | 108
@106 “….adding that residents would be given compensation.”
Unless they are caught speaking Russian.
Posted by: dh | Jul 30 2022 21:42 utc | 109
S | Jul 30 2022 21:30 utc | 112
Given those numbers, your theory seems most likely. Thanks for checking.
Posted by: accountant | Jul 30 2022 21:53 utc | 110
@dfg #97:
Hard to recruit future actors if they suspect the script might evolve to write them violently out of the series.
Only if future actors know about the fate of past actors. Do you think Zelenskiy knows about Diệm? Of course not.
Posted by: S | Jul 30 2022 21:59 utc | 111
Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 30 2022 21:39 utc | 115
The destruction of that place looks substantial and we hardly know how many guards were injured in the blast. By default, guards won’t bei close to the block at 2 in the morning.
Either way, the world is a better place without this scum.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 30 2022 22:02 utc | 112
reply to 114
I still don’t see Zelensky’s game here – unless he thinks Russia will stop with the Donbass. The Duma would explode if they don’t link up with the “Trans” folks next to Moldova. And much the same with Kharkov.
OTOH, maybe Ukraine is hurting so bad that they are abandoning Donbass and re-deploying before winter.Drafting 70 year olds is Hitler in the bunker stuff
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 30 2022 22:06 utc | 113
Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 30 2022 21:39 utc | 115
NB … there were indeed injured guards/employees:
US-made HIMARS MLRS struck a detention centre near Elenovka, where Ukrainian servicemen, including Azov fighters, are being held.
40 Ukrainian POWs were killed and 75 injured. In addition, 8 employees of detention centre were injured to varying degrees of severity.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 30 2022 22:24 utc | 115
@daffyDuct #106, quoting Reuters article:
Zelenskiy said hundreds of thousands of people were still living in areas of Donbas where fighting was fierce.
“Many refuse to leave, but it still needs to be done,” he said.
Of course they refuse to leave! They are eagerly awaiting liberation by Russian/DPR/LPR forces!
Here’s a video of an LPR serviceman, a native of Svetlodarsk, finally being able to hug his mother after 8 long years: news article with video. They couldn’t even talk directly on the phone and had to communicate through third parties because there were instances of the SBU threatening DPR/LPR servicemen’s relatives living in Ukraine-controlled areas of Donetsk/Lugansk Oblasts. Why would this woman want to leave?
Posted by: S | Jul 30 2022 22:37 utc | 116
@Eighthman #119:
Drafting 70 year olds is Hitler in the bunker stuff
Actually, Hitler’s Volkssturm was conscripting 16–60 y.o. males. So Zelenskiy’s current plans to expand conscription from 18–60 y.o. males to 18–70 y.o. males and females go way beyond Hitler.
Posted by: S | Jul 30 2022 22:45 utc | 117
Summary30072022 #29
Thank you for posting the Russian MOD summary. Its good news week.
Every time the Ukes rearrange the battalions in their battlefield they bring them together at some staging point ready to receive Russian blessings from heaven. The Russians oblige.
The demilitarisation proceeds slowly and inexorably – all is good.
On Pelosi – I guess she will catch Japanese encephalitis next and call off the Taiwan leg of the journey. Or she may even get there and annoy the locals as well as the mainlanders. Regardless she is an incompetent fool that cannot even get medicare for all of her people, prosperity for her people, legal justice for her people. She comes from a society that cannot even build high speed trains, maintain its road bridges, build efficient ports and distribution systems. She is at home with the descendents of the Kuomintang elite hiding on Taiwan. She is wretched turd floating on an ocean of debt.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 30 2022 22:52 utc | 118
If I were the residents of donetsk in areas still controlled by ukraine I’d stay put. The Ukr Govt, over the past 8yrs bombef shelled and massacred 18000 citizens. Zelensky has banned all Russian language and history in the region and they are still shelling donetsk civilians.
They cut off water supplies to the region over an 8yr period pensioners were dying of starvation due to their pensions not being paid and they massacred locals in Odessa who were demonstrating against the coup. Why are they now so concerned about the citizens in areas where there is no electricity? They’ve been through a lot worse at the hands of their iwn govt. Recently, zelly called the citizens of East Ukraine a ‘species’. True Nazi ideology on display.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jul 30 2022 23:11 utc | 119
@ uncle tungsten | Jul 30 2022 22:52 utc | 123 who wrote about Pelosi
”
She is wretched turd floating on an ocean of debt.
”
The woman does not deserve your well crafted choice of words.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 30 2022 23:18 utc | 120
@115 Yenwoda
One thing that can be ruled out completely is that you have any idea what you are talking about.
The damage shown in satellites is exactly the right amount of damage for the small HIMAR rockets, they are precise not powerful.
Posted by: Haassaan | Jul 31 2022 0:29 utc | 121
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 30 2022 22:06 utc | 119
I still don’t see Zelensky’s game here – unless he thinks Russia will stop with the Donbass.
An alternate explanation may be found in reports the DPR/LPR/RF are training up to 16 BTGs recruited from among the 1 to 2 million 404 refugee population. Many of these refugees will be painfully aware of the fate of those they left behind in 404; they have strong incentive to ensure the defeat of the Titanic Vogue Warrior.
The same is also true for the inhabitants of the liberated regions. If you lived in day to day fear and were then set free and offered a means to fight back and protect your interests, are you not likely to take up arms? One of the primary strengths of Napoleon’s citizen armies was the fact his troops were fighting for a future they believed in vs the reactionary feudal conscripts opposing them.
The Chief Narcissist & Cokehead is likely aware of both the above issues and the removal of the civilian population is a means to deny DPR/LPR/RF further increases in its combat strength.
I suspect we will also soon see a formal declaration of war between DPR/LPR/RF and 404. This will almost certainly involve seizure of the western Black sea littoral (deprives NATOSTAN future marine bases, creates a link to Russian population in Transinistra, cuts off Romania as a source of military re-supply). This attack will likely be coupled with an offensive intended to capture the 404 forces presently holding on the Donbass front. These have been “crumbled” and depleted such that the high value UAF units now retain little of their former fighting capacity; this, coupled with the fact the terrain west of the Izum / Donetsk line is largely open steppe with few river defence barriers, makes such an offensive likely to achieve success at relatively low cost.
Posted by: Sushi | Jul 31 2022 0:53 utc | 122
So, when will Russia finally start a special operation for real? Soon at the door…”
Posted by: Al | Jul 30 2022 18:21 utc | 95
Thanks for that very interesting post with so many SM0-critical voices from within RF. There are a lot of strange things about what is going on that don’t quite add up.
But then: when is that not the case real life emerging situations?
@ Donnie | Jul 30 2022 17:46 utc | 93
my prediction is based on the idea of a change of leadership and direction for ukraine at this point in time based off astrology.. might mean zelensky steps down, is replaced, or worse… it might mean i am wrong too… in a few days we’ll know for sure…
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2022 1:13 utc | 124
Sushi #127
I share your assessment only I imagine that the victories will continue at the same slow pace as we witnessed over the past few months. Winter seriously complicates things for an invading army and spring more so if you are on the ‘wrong side’ of a river.
Eventually Odessa etc will be liberated but that might be delayed while the entire Donbass is restored to freedom.
On evacuations I read ‘clearances’. I suspect Zelensky will destroy as much of the gas reticulation infrastructure as possible as he withdraws from the inexorable liberation movement. He will be happy to render the place uninhabitable other than for agriculture. Such is the mind of narcissism. These are bleak times for the locals outside the liberated zone.
A big question is the extent to which the Ukrainian ‘clearances’ can find their way back east via Belarus. I suspect the mendacity and evil of the EU block have lows beneath their current low.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2022 1:18 utc | 125
Feels like Ukie forces are on the verge of buckling big-time and Z wants as much of a news blackout about it as possible…
RF REALLY needs to stop the shelling int Donetsk already…
By the way barflies. Do not miss today’s Military Summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mCiBcyZH-Y
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2022 1:25 utc | 127
@ uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2022 1:25 utc | 132
thanks for your posts.. i watched it earlier..
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2022 1:27 utc | 128
Regarding the forced evacuation of civilians – I’m sure there are a number of reasons for this decision none of which are mentioned in the official pronouncement. The official reason – that Ukraine will be unable to provide gas for heating this winter – is actually probably true as by winter they will no longer control this territory and gas will be provided by the DPR and Russia. I am guessing that they wish to depopulate this area as much as possible to make things it for the allied forces to reconstruct/reconstitute the region, that they are afraid of ‘spies’ as likely at least 50% of the population is sympathetic to the SMO, and they with to punish (and conscript) the resident population. Hopefully many who leave now will be able to return in a few months. Haven’t seen any numbers from Mariupol about civilians returning but I am guessing that at least some are. I wonder how they expect to accomplish this? Another benefit to Ukraine would be the ability to label any civilians who elect to stay as traitors subject to arrest.
Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 31 2022 2:23 utc | 129
Bhadrakumar heaping scorn on the Biden admin’s ‘Ukraine policy’ and attempts to reopen diplomatic dialogue over at Indian Punchline.
Military Summary’s suggestion that a surrender deal may be in the works (to save Odessa no doubt) may well be behind this sudden desire of the US to talk to Russia again. Also the POW strike, the bridge attacks in Kherson, and the forced evacuation order may all be signs of Ukraine’s end game – cause as much trouble as possible while they still can, while also trying to salvage something from the ruins they have created (not lose any more territory).
Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 31 2022 2:42 utc | 130
The Himmars with American satellite info turns Ukraine into more of a super power type country, it makes it difficult for the Russians. It causes a longer battle anf more death. If you notice Poland is being built up with massive artillery and tanks. I think they will take a run at them once the Russians have been stretched thin, or at least that was the plan but now that Russia is only using and loosing 20% of the soldiers the west projected things might be stressful.
Posted by: OhhCanada | Jul 31 2022 2:43 utc | 131
You be the judge who is the one lacking logic, yet considering his/her hysterical pronouncements to be absolute truth.
(re numerous statements of rk)
Posted by: S | Jul 30 2022 11:14 utc | 27
I think you underestimate the bar if you think anybody took those postings seriously.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Jul 31 2022 3:05 utc | 132
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2022 1:13 utc | 129
RE Ukraine astrology. Given that 404 is now a satellite of the US I wonder if the US Pluto return will play a part in the August meltdown that I also predict is just about to happen with the Uranus/MArs/NN conjunction. The SMO began just after the first hit of the US Pluto return so I think they are linked inextricably. Astrologically as in every other way.
I think the US action in Ukraine will end up bringing down the Empire because of the astrological timing.
Some historian remarked that most Empires fall due to external forces that catch them off guard or that they are not equipped to deal with.
Whatever happens it will be interesting to see the astro correlations.
Posted by: K | Jul 31 2022 3:51 utc | 133
@ K | Jul 31 2022 3:51 utc | 138
mark at skyscript did a good post on this topic of the pluto return, by sharing someones work on this topic… you might find it interesting.. mark is a good astrologer based in scotland.. https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11679
i did a post on nancy pelosi earlier today on the same site as well… even though her chart has a B rating, a good section of her chart lines up with this triple conjunction of mars-uranus-north node we are experiencing at the moment..
i think it is all connected, but not sure how it plays out… i think it is an important bump astrologically, but maybe nothing will come of it.. perhaps the chart i am using for ukraine and zelensky don’t work!
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2022 4:14 utc | 134
perhaps the chart i am using for ukraine and zelensky don’t work!
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2022 4:14 utc | 139
I wonder if its because Ukraine was created by the fall of the USSR precipitated by western imperialism, and since 2014 it is being run by the US, it has not really had an independent existence so its astrology may well be be linked to the destinies and actions of both Russia and USA.
Very interesting!
We could have volcanic eruptions and / or a big currency event too.
Thanks for the link I used to go to that site often.
I guess we are on topic as long as its Ukraine right ?
Posted by: K | Jul 31 2022 4:55 utc | 135
@ K | Jul 31 2022 4:55 utc | 140
i have been doing this a long time… using the charts of nations is tricky due all the historical changes and etc. etc.. i think in nic campions book of world horoscopes there are 3 different charts for ukraine and nics book is considered the most relevant book given all the history and effort he put into all of this.. .. maybe more perhaps beginning with 28 june 988!! countries like turkey, although a country rich in history as well – the chart for oct 29 1923, 830pm ankara, seems to work fairly well.. the usa charts are an example of a big mess of charts with many different thoughts on all of this… apparently the 557pm chart for ukraine is the one ukrainian astrologers use.. i don’t take it all that seriously.. i am into it though.. i suppose i walk a crazy balance of seriousness an playfulness in approach to all this.. lets see what happens, or if anything significant happens in here..
this just in – Black Sea Fleet HQ in Sevastopol, Crimea attacked by Ukraine – governor
Five people were injured in an apparent drone strike, the official said –
i was wondering about this bombing of the prison camp where the pows are will have any immediate fall out.. think about it for a minute… if ukraine was involved in doing this – and personally i think it is most likely – the folks who did this, using the usa made himars – would know what they did and how it was intentional… some of the people in the information chain on this might be very disagreeable to this act of barbarity… they might seek revenge for it too… i can’t see something like this not having a response, if it is indeed true… so, this is a significant act of war in here as i see it, and i am curious what the outcome of it all is… russia has invited un and red cross experts in to examine the site… hard to know what comes out of this.. if it is like similar attempts at justice in syria, we know nothing will come of it.. but i think this is different as those who have been killed-murdered) are some of the dedicated warriors who have represented all that i think ukraine stands for here… i can imagine some form of payback, especially if ukraine initiated this… do private contract usa people run these himars inside ukraine?? is this all cia action?? lots of questions, but no answers yet…
Posted by: james | Jul 31 2022 5:17 utc | 136
Is the UN Secretary General on the payroll of the United States? Anecdotal evidence continues to accumulate in that direction during the Ukrainian SMO. If such is the case, the United Nations has lost its vaunted impartiality, and more so its legitimacy of existence.
Posted by: Matt | Jul 31 2022 5:22 utc | 137
Die Vereinigten Staaten kündigten die letzte Chance für die Ukraine an, den Konflikt in den Verhandlungen zu beenden
.
Die ukrainischen Behörden hätten jetzt die letzte Möglichkeit, den Konflikt durch Verhandlungen zu beenden, weil die Dinge an der Front nicht zu ihren Gunsten stünden, sagte Colonel Douglas McGregor, ein ehemaliger Berater des US-Verteidigungsministers.
„Moskau erwartet so etwas höchstwahrscheinlich nicht, da Washington und seine Verbündeten in London deutlich gemacht haben, dass sie an einer solchen Entwicklung der Ereignisse nicht interessiert sind“, berichtet RIA Novosti in einem Interview mit Judging Freedom YouTube Kanal.
Das Militär fügte hinzu, dass der Westen Kiew nicht mehr helfen könne, da sich in Europa eine kritische Situation in Wirtschaft und Politik zusammenbraue. Die europäische Industrie könnte mit einem ernsthaften Mangel an russischem Gas und anderen sanktionierten Gütern konfrontiert werden, was zu Personalwechseln führen würde.
.
https://vz.ru/news/2022/7/30/1170164.html
Posted by: mac4 | Jul 31 2022 6:31 utc | 138
bevin #45
It has already been done by the oligarchs and their fascist enforcers.
There aren’t any labour laws or Unions or opposition parties of any kind left. They have re-invented, and ‘improved’ Nazism.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/07/27/our-european-values-1-21-euro-minimum-wage-in-ukraine/
Thank you Bevin, that is a grueling read.
Barflies should read this closely. It is not a joyous read but it will remove any scales from your eyes. If anyone ever needed a reason to detest the west and it capitalism, this report has more than you would wish for.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2022 7:20 utc | 139
@142, Matt: Yes: “Is the UN Secretary General on the payroll of the United States? Anecdotal evidence continues to accumulate in that direction during the Ukrainian SMO. If such is the case, the United Nations has lost its vaunted impartiality, and more so its legitimacy of existence.”
In BBC Feb. 2014 transcript of Nuland’s conversation w. US Ukr. Amb. Pyatt, Nuland mentions UN sending an official to Ukraine to endorse US coup: 2/7/2014, “Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call:“
“Nuland: OK… one more wrinkle for you Geoff…I can’t remember if I told you this, or if I only told Washington this, that when I talked to Jeff Feltman [United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs] this morning, he had a new name for the UN guy Robert Serry did I write you that this morning?
[Jonathan Marcus:…Various officials attempting to marshal the Ukrainian [pro-US coup] opposition; efforts to get the UN to play an active role in bolstering a deal; and (as you can see below) the big guns waiting in the wings – US Vice-President Joe Biden clearly being lined up to give private words of encouragement at the appropriate moment.]
Pyatt: Yeah I saw that.
Nuland: OK. He’s now gotten both Serry and [UN Secretary General] Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU.
[Jonathan Marcus:…The EU is divided and to some extent hesitant about picking a fight with Moscow….But the US clearly is determined to take a much more activist role.]
Pyatt: No, exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together….we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing….
Nuland: So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [US vice-president’s [Biden] national security adviser Jake] Sullivan’s come back to me VFR [direct to me], saying you need [US Vice-President Joe] Biden and I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets [details] to stick. So Biden’s willing.
Pyatt: OK. Great. Thanks.””…https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957#share-tools
Nuland says she spoke to Jeff Feltman with the UN. Feltman was a long time US State Dept. employee, inciting misery in hot spots around the world, obsessed w/regime change in Syria, one third of which remains illegally annexed by the US. Feltman insists US jihadist foot soldiers will stay in Syria as long as it takes for regime change. US Jeff Feltman was appointed #2 at UN in 2012. His appointment seems to be the moment when “regime change” happened at the UN, ie US takeover. By 2014 we see Feltman gets UN to send an official to Ukraine to endorse US coup.
Posted by: susan mullen | Jul 31 2022 7:47 utc | 140
forced evacuations ?
My guess NATO commanders want to create free fire zones.
Posted by: Exile | Jul 31 2022 8:01 utc | 141
… Military Summary’s suggestion that a surrender deal may be in the works (to save Odessa no doubt) may well be behind this sudden desire of the US to talk to Russia again. Also the POW strike, the bridge attacks in Kherson, and the forced evacuation order may all be signs of Ukraine’s end game – cause as much trouble as possible while they still can, while also trying to salvage something from the ruins they have created (not lose any more territory).
Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 31 2022 2:42 utc | 135
I did think there was probably something else behind the sudden loud talk of a non-relevant prisoner exchange and the (HIMARS, i.e. Yankee) strike on the DPR prison. And now this apparent drone attack on Crimean fleet HQ (wonder what type of drone was used).
I suspected a secret prisoner exchange of all the NATOstani snuff hustlers that are in RF / DPR custody but some kind of ceasefire at the current lines (can’t imagine a proper end to hostilities would ever suit Axis profiteers) would surely imply a full prisoner exchange as well.
It’s another suggestive indicator that the Axis puppet forces are close to collapse and that the US doesn’t want to lose Odessa and thus the whole coast.
It’ll be interesting to see if RF backs down … I sincerely hope they don’t.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 31 2022 8:15 utc | 142
Posted by: OhhCanada | Jul 31 2022 2:43 utc | 136
———-
Oh, the Nazis from Canada can wish…😋
Posted by: ppp | Jul 31 2022 8:23 utc | 143
I suspect NATO commanders want to create free-fire zones.
.
Or use other weapons…ABC or dirt bomb?
With thousands of dead civilians, however, no backing from the USA and England would be more acceptable!
Would that possibly be the plan?
Posted by: mac4 | Jul 31 2022 8:38 utc | 144
@ppp | Jul 30 2022 22:18 utc | 120
Anyone heard of Stoltendog lately?
He sits when told to sit. In the meantime, for your entertainment 3 x Stoltenberg.
Left: The familiar Quisling
Right: Camilla Stoltenberg, sister. Director-General of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, Rothschild funded.
Center: Nini Stoltenberg, sister. Heroin addict, dead.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 31 2022 9:03 utc | 145
@Yenwoda. What garbage you post. You infer that a himar didn’t strike the prison and that it is suspicious that only one spot was hit and that it is suspicious that no guards were injured. Facts are prisons have strong walls so the damage would be concentrated to the spot where the missile punched in. But even outside that spot there were injuries including 8 guards.
Posted by: Neal | Jul 31 2022 9:32 utc | 146
The west has the solution for the freedom of western Ukraine:
https://multipolarista.com/2022/07/28/west-neoliberal-recovery-conference/
West prepares to plunder post-war Ukraine with neoliberal shock therapy: privatization, deregulation, slashing worker protections.
So I guess all those advocating for Russia to pull up after just the liberation of the two eastern oblasts can rest easy.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 30 2022 8:02 utc | 1
It is halfway alredy done after the 2014th.
Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Bulgaria leads the world in depopulation, both becouse emigration and low birth rates, and alsou in suicide.
Traditionalist authoritarian Belarus is slightly poorer than Latvia/Lithuania but its population is present and it have retained it’s industry. Say Belarus produces high resiliense microchips for special applications (military and space I guess). Latvia and Lithuania have higher GDP, salaries but alsou higher paymenst for basic needs, … emigration, depopulation and suicidie.
Belarus and Lithuania and alsou Latvia is culturaly and historicaly related, it was more like backwaters of Lithuania like Ukraine was Polish backwaters. (Okraina – periphery, borderland, wilderness.)
Well, you alsou forgot the de-industrialisation. EE colonisation is done with deindustrialisation. Country which could be a main european producer of technetium now can only produce precast concrete for the export to Sweden and some canned fish.
After 2014 Ukraine alredy had lost most of its hi tech industry. Now Ukraine could only export Roshen candies (Roshen is from PoRoshenKo) and US weapons. The most hi tech ukrainian products are wires.
Posted by: Alef | Jul 31 2022 9:57 utc | 147
@mac4 | Jul 31 2022 8:38 utc | 149
Exactly! that is the plan. I’ve said many times in the past 2-3 months and all dumb propagandists got angry.
Following a more or less successfull forced evacuation, a himars strike on an npp will appear. Radiation will badly affect Belarus too. Huge success for nato.
If it’s not an npp then an actual nuke, one of Trump’s mini nukes would be perfect.”Russia couldn’t win so they’ve nuked Ukr!!!!”
The strategy in Ukr operation is really bad and probably they even expected to fail before it started. Why would you give such ambiguous targets like “denazification”? They can say tomorrow it’s finished. Who can argue?
If nothing changes, Russia is going to get hurt but it seems their decision centers are full of Martyanovs, the ass kissers and cardboard generals. At least he’s clever enough to live far away, at a safe distance.
Posted by: rk | Jul 31 2022 10:09 utc | 148
bevin #45
It has already been done by the oligarchs and their fascist enforcers.
There aren’t any labour laws or Unions or opposition parties of any kind left. They have re-invented, and ‘improved’ Nazism.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/07/27/our-european-values-1-21-euro-minimum-wage-in-ukraine/
Thank you Bevin, that is a grueling read.
Barflies should read this closely. It is not a joyous read but it will remove any scales from your eyes. If anyone ever needed a reason to detest the west and it capitalism, this report has more than you would wish for.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2022 7:20 utc | 144
Interestingly enough, when I open that link in Opera (being in Berlin/Germany), it leads to:
403 Forbidden
В доступе на страницу отказано
Once I open it in Firefox, or Brave on my smartphone, it gets me to the actual site.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 31 2022 10:15 utc | 149
Conservapedia of hard line american conservatives posted:
https://www.conservapedia.com/Template:Mainpageright
Pentagon claims Ukrainian attack on POW camp that killed Ukrainian POWs was accidental. https://en.rua.gr/2022/07/30/the-pentagon-leaked-zelensky-ukrainians-hit-the-prison-with-azov-fighters/ Russia claim prisoners were giving up information about illegal NATO weapons transfers from Ukraine to Kurdish terrorists in Syria.
And
HIMAR fragments found at Donetsk POW prison where UK and US mercenaries were being held, Aidan Aslin and Philip Drueke suspected as dead.https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-40-ukrainian-pows-killed-by-ukrainian-missile-strike-donetsk-prison-2022-07-29/ The prisoners were giving up information about Ukrainian transfer of US weapons to Kurdish terrorists in Syria. Western media attempts to blame Russia. https://youtu.be/VzSlh5l-w7s
Indeed maybe they just knew too mutch. But maybe there were some folks they just don’t want back.
Ukraine reports $10 billion in sales of gold it never had since the war began. https://youtu.be/XYtsd6X0Q-c If the $10 billion in money transfers did not come from non-existent gold, did it come from selling U.S. donated weapons abroad?
1/3 of ukrainian arms could end up just everywhere. This is not a new. Terrorists alredy a long time was using weapons sold by ukrainian generals. Now this could be worse as they don’t have any earning capabilities left so it could become official state policy.
There were strange ukrainian plane crash in Greece loaded with a lot of weapons. Officialy arms went from Serbia to Bangladesh throught the Jordan. Maybe real destination could be say in Yemen or Syria.
Posted by: Alef | Jul 31 2022 10:22 utc | 150
@BroncoBilly #105
You said
Another additional aspect is that HIMARS was designed after the concept of missile to missile interception was implemented. So the radar cross section (RCS) for the missile was reduced to ensure better results.
Is this true? The HIMARS rockets or missiles are not visibly any different than Uragan or other Russian/Soviet missiles, although I guess they could be made of some fancy materials.
And more importantly, is this true for the ATACMS – the 300 km HIMARS missile which is basically a big fat single missile?
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 31 2022 10:44 utc | 151
@Peter AU1 #114
Mercouris just noted that someone has pointed out that the Donetsk/Lugansk region is actually higher population density than many of the “cities”.
Meaning the Russians are already through the worst of the urban fighting.
If true, that puts a very different face on Zaporozhie, Dnipropetrovsk and Nikolaev if not also Kharkiv and Odessa.
None of these are exactly Manhattan or even San Francisco.
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 31 2022 10:57 utc | 152
@rk
Now that NATO is better than the USA, there is nothing left to do but to stage or provoke the use of nuclear weapons!
For Ukraine, in turn, the only option !!! The ONLY one to gain anything, even if it’s just the “pity” of the people of the West! Because Sylensky or CIA will do everything to blame this attack on Putin!
A nuclear power plant, possible? It has already been tried!
Important is probably NOT the Ukraine if that should happen?
It’s no longer about weakening Russia, the West = USA is only about surviving, about losing face from which the USA would never recover, no one would take the USA and NATO seriously in the world!
Now a “victory” must be achieved at any price, including that of World War 3. The USA hopes that this will only take place in Europe!
In short, it’s about the existence of the West and its financial system, no longer about weakening Russia, this plan has long since failed!
And when it comes to existence, millions of dead don’t matter !!
Posted by: mac4 | Jul 31 2022 11:01 utc | 153
@OhhCanada #136
Utterly delusional.
Is that you, Chrystia?
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 31 2022 11:04 utc | 154
@james #141
Mercouris noted, and I also believe, that there are infinite more ways to resolve inconvenient prisoners than blow them up.
The infamous “shot while attempting to escape” is prominent. There’s also the “put into solitary confinement where the prisoner committed suicide” – Epstein edition.
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 31 2022 11:10 utc | 155
bevin #45 …
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/07/27/our-european-values-1-21-euro-minimum-wage-in-ukraine/
Thank you Bevin, that is a grueling read.
Barflies should read this closely. It is not a joyous read but it will remove any scales from your eyes. If anyone ever needed a reason to detest the west and it capitalism, this report has more than you would wish for.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 31 2022 7:20 utc | 144
Yes, absolutely, a must-read for anyone visiting these pages, first-rate journalism, and a little shocking, even by the standards of the bar.
Not only a story about minimum wages but an EU-wide atmosphere of collusion and exploitation that casts the EU response to SMO is a very different light.
European values indeed.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 31 2022 11:35 utc | 156
I would never have believed that I would ever agree with one of the most conservative of Australian ex-politicians, Cory Bernadi, but here it is folks, Cory The Truth Teller on Australians Sky News:
https://youtu.be/KEPWgMXut_8
Posted by: Menz | Jul 31 2022 11:56 utc | 157
@ppp #148:
Oh, the Nazis from Canada can wish…😋
ostro, why are you now posting as ppp? Have you been banned?
Posted by: S | Jul 31 2022 12:24 utc | 158
Re: a theory of the irrational “evacuation of civilians”
The main Uki-Nazi tactic has been using civilians as human shields. Am I correct in thinking that behind the current south-east line of contact, the civilian population becomes sparser the further west/north you go until the major cities of the north are encountered? So “evacuating” the civilians in question to these sparser places means the Uki-Nazis essentially take their shields with them, to be repeatedly put in harms way as the line of contact moves on.
I think orders to do this are even beyond the the depravity of the US-handlers. And since Zelenski has verbally attacked the US for his perception the US isn’t giving him enough weapons and money (HUH!!!???), it may be a sign Zelly is getting his orders directly from a closer-to-Rothschild source? This Uki-Nazi operation has been a failure from February, and I’m sure the Rothschilds see all the “work” they did to set up coincident and concurrent “crises” worldwide is doing more to reveal their machinations than obscure them.
I always ask “why now”? If destroying the existing world order to convince the masses to be “rescued” by their Great Reset was the plan, it is not going well. Getting WEF plants to enforce the ridiculous “nitrogen ban” while the media is crying crocodile tears over contrived “food shortages” is not creating the panic they envisioned.
The fact that Russia and China are standing up to the Rothschilds is making the masses wonder WTF is up. The Great Reset is looking more like the Great Digital Enslavement Grab. Even the dullest of the sheeple can put together that cutting fertilizer use during a food crisis is beyond idiotic… even for WEFers like Trudeau/Freeland.
And then there’s the idea that the Rothschilds have realized their Great Reset, being meticulously planned for decades, is in danger from many fronts. For one, they are totally dependent on the digital panopticon to control the masses, which means they must control “the money supply”. Hence the push to eliminate anonymous cash. Bitcoin (not so much other cryptos) has the given the masses and non-conforming countries an “out”. It may be we are seeing an acceleration of the Plan since the 2008 Bitcoin release. The original Plan was to slow-walk the Reset, with 2030 and 2050 as the main target dates for covert completion of specific tasks by the Young Leaders. The Great Reset is being quick-marched, things that were to happen post 2030 are now pushed to be completed BY 2030.
And the real demographics began showing world population levelling off shortly after 2030 and declining by 2050. Kinda makes the interlinked “depopulation/climate crisis” agenda seem redundant eh?
Why now? They don’t have a choice. Even though Putin and especially Xi plan on using many of the aspects of the Great Reset themselves, neither wants to take orders from the Rothschild class in doing so.
When the elephants fight, the grass is destroyed.
Posted by: Old canadian | Jul 31 2022 12:57 utc | 159
@Haassaan, I could believe that damage was from a MAM-L missile (TB2 armament), especially the thermobaric warhead variant. Clearly not M31 rocket, come on.
@Neal, here’s my prediction. Russia/DNR will not allow ICRC to access the dead (even though many/most/all were ICRC-registered POWs), and their bodies will not be repatriated. Russia/DNR will not allow international investigators to access the site, and at some point it will be quietly demolished for “safety concerns over structural damage”.
https://twitter.com/ICRC_ua/status/1553402454473117697
Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 31 2022 13:20 utc | 160