Posted by: Summary17072022 | Jul 17 2022 12:29 utc | 2
Thanks for the update

Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 17 2022 13:19 utc | 4

@BurnEye
Happy Birthday !
You wanna talk about ruined birthdates ? Mine is Sept. 11th…

Posted by: Featherless | Jul 17 2022 13:28 utc | 6

@Featherless 49 years later Chile is still trying to recover from the US coup.

Posted by: Milton | Jul 17 2022 13:47 utc | 8

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 13:57 utc | 13
And come to think of it, why not have another 9/11 event in the West to justify a full-blown war against Russia? Like a dirty bomb – as someone suggested in an earlier thread – which would fall under the nuclear attack protocol recently published in New York City? We are running in circles anyway, so why not another 9/11, only this time blaming Russia for it? And the radiation would then be blamed for the “side effects” of the vaccines too.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 14:12 utc | 10

Mariupol today 17th July https://youtu.be/E_83o2AsaVw

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 14:30 utc | 12

Gabriel, my archangel, flying high in the beautiful sky. I love you admire you for the wonderfull
contributions defending the… Oh I dont know who you are defending. Explain yourself so I can have a deeper understanding of your Holy Mission. F.i. Where do you live, what do you do for living, what computer do you use etc. Lookin forward your fly in the sky answers. Eartly answers are appreciated.

Posted by: DutchZ | Jul 17 2022 15:01 utc | 14

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 14:34 utc | 19
Totally correct!
That is burned in my memory for years!
They, and consider, that are soldiers, cut off of informationas, on the battlefield, they thought, Putin is flying over!
So, an crew of some soldiers, maybe even with hangover, thought, they will change world history…
And normaly, hijenas catched the bate and made story out of this incident….

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 15:04 utc | 16

Mr. President, if you’re sick of people talking about how old you are, think how I feel. You’re only 79. I’m 82—three years down the trail ahead of you. You’re still a kid, though it is true that, crossing the White House lawn, you walk like the Tin Woodman in need of a squirt of lubrication.

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 15:07 utc | 18

I think that b should give “Gabriel” a short period of time learning to behave like a civilized barfly, before he gets booted.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 17 2022 15:16 utc | 20

Ghost of McShitstain wrong Angle Gabriel.
what hellish cavern did you crawl out of? definitely a Troll over an angel every day!
Are you even human, or just a deranged algorithm bot?
play violent video games, sell automatic riffles on every street corner, smoke crack, Fk hookers, Upload the video to i-cloud,
Joe Tzu,
aka
the Ghost of Mcshitstain

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 15:24 utc | 22

Also, remember MH370.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 15:05 utc | 30
YEAH there were two MH incidents four months apart in 2014 – the year of the Maidan. MH means Malaysia. There was a banking scandal brewing in Malaysia, involving Goldman Sachs, which proved to be the world’s largest of its kind. That was a few years after the financial crisis in the west in 2008-9. But one can surmise only directionally that something is not right here. Just brainstorming further: Malaysia could be tied to Saudi Arabia, another Muslim country, which would have its Khashoggi affair (involving both Jamal and his uncle Adnan both of whom may have known Jeffrey Epstein and Trump) a few years later. This is not really leading anywhere…

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:32 utc | 24

too vast a subject the Malaysia thing, it was all over the news but mainly in Nikkei Asia Review etc. and very vague.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:39 utc | 26

The Malaysia scandal which began in 2015 is called 1Malaysia Development Berhad scandal, not necessarily related to Ukraine – but who knows – one year after the Euro-Maidan…

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:43 utc | 28

It is the anniversary of MH17 being accidentally shot down by DNR separatist forces using a Buk donated by Russia. Thanks in part to incredible open-source reporting, convictions were secured (in absentia) in a Dutch tribunal.
NASA satellite fire detection shows that Russian artillery has been suppressed since HIMARS arrived on the scene. Most likely, Russians have adapted their logistics to eliminate large ammo depots near the front lines and are relying on longer truck trips to replenish units with a correspondingly lower rate of supply, source: https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1548470809764564996
No evidence has been provided for Russian/pro-Russian claims of HIMARS capture, sale or destruction, or for the presence at Vinnytsia House of Officers of any foreign weapon dealers.

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 15:54 utc | 30

Poor Gabriel, trapped in common knowledge of recent history that he believes determines the future and the present. Yes, Gabe, we all know that Russia was a land ruled by oligarchs. Some of us saw it with our own eyes. You might go back to 1999 and track the diverging trajectories of Russia and Ukraine to provide yourself with some much needed context. Crushing the oligarchs was not an overnight job for the Russian state, not to mention that shy of returning to communism, there will always be extra rich people who behave that way. The US and Europe have them, they rule those nations in ways Russian oligarchs can only dream of.
Yes, we’ve all seen Putin grow into his current self. He neglected the internal economic development of Russia for too long, focused on other important matters like getting US companies out of the Russian oil sector, paying off the binding IMF debt and building a modern foreign policy. He tried until at least 2014 to play ball with the West. It was, in hindsight, a mistake but a rational decision.
No, he didn’t support Donbas in ways many Russians wanted to see. He’s a foreign policy realist and so for him stability is next to godliness. Yes, he undercut militia successes with Minsk 1 and 2. He also wasn’t ready to fight. Yes, Russian state organizations may have had a hand in neutralizing militia leaders, or maybe not. Almost anything is possible. Putin was trying to deescalate the situation in order to minimize the chance that we’d all experience what’s happening right now. That might have been a mistake, but his reasons are understandable.
Gabe, you’re far too emotional for geopolitical analysis. You seem to superimpose a western idealistic geopolitical frame over a proclaimed siding with “Russia”. But that’s incorrect and dangerous. It will not produce usable analysis or even analysis that explains past events. You’re just doomer ranting and begging to be respected for it as if it were thoughtful analysis. It’s not. Pounding your shoe on the table with demands to be taken seriously as an oracle of truth doesn’t help.

Posted by: Lex | Jul 17 2022 16:06 utc | 32

…. Thus, the rifle company of the 58th battalion of the 104th separate Territorial Defense Brigade, which was under the operational subordination of the commander of the 108th battalion of the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade….
Lot to unpack here is today’s MOD update. This one tidbit really stands out. The 10th mountain is a very elite NATO integrated brigade. That Kiev is now attaching Volksturm (the104th territorial) to elite brigades such as the 10th mountain signals (perhaps) complete chaos within the Kiev ground forces.
Chaos complete and utter chaos

Posted by: Exile | Jul 17 2022 16:10 utc | 34

Wow…I have never commented before on this site but must say that “gabriel and his rantings” seem to have hit a low that few could exceed. I am a keen admirer of the Russian “slow going action” which minimizes the civilian casualties. As an aside I retired from the USAF after 20 years (DFC, MSM, Bronze Star, numerous air medals, etc) serving in/around Vietnam for over 3 years and participating in “numerous” war games prior to my retirement. The last one I participated in involved Iran and one of our carriers on fire and sinking at its termination.I pray that the USA does not end up going head to head with Russia/China………..

Posted by: tobyt | Jul 17 2022 16:13 utc | 36

@Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:32 utc | 39

YEAH there were two MH incidents four months apart in 2014 – the year of the Maidan. MH means Malaysia. There was a banking scandal brewing in Malaysia, involving Goldman Sachs, which proved to be the world’s largest of its kind. That was a few years after the financial crisis in the west in 2008-9. But one can surmise only directionally that something is not right here. Just brainstorming further: Malaysia could be tied to Saudi Arabia, another Muslim country, which would have its Khashoggi affair (involving both Jamal and his uncle Adnan both of whom may have known Jeffrey Epstein and Trump) a few years later. This is not really leading anywhere…

Here is a possible motive for both MH17 and MH370 related to Malaysia (the Ukraine connection to MH17 can be understood as dual purpose/obfuscation):

War Tribunal Finds Bush, Cheney Guilty of War Crimes
Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal orders reparations be given to torture victims
May 13, 2012
Former US President George W Bush, his Vice-President Dick Cheney and six other members of his administration have been found guilty of war crimes by a tribunal in Malaysia.
Bush, Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and five of their legal advisers were tried in their absence and convicted on Saturday.
Victims of torture told a panel of five judges in Kuala Lumpur of their suffering at the hands of US soldiers and contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Among the evidence, Briton Moazzam Begg, an ex-Guantanamo detainee, said he was beaten, put in a hood and left in solitary confinement. Iraqi woman Jameelah Abbas Hameedi said she was stripped and humiliated in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.
Transcripts of the five-day trial will be sent to the chief prosecutor at the International Criminal Court, the United Nations and the Security Council.

MH370 8 March 2014 (just after the Ukraine Maidan coup d’etat) from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing disappeared as the flight transitioned from Malaysian to Vietnamese airspace, cut all communication and made a sharp left turn and flew low over the Malaysian/Thai border after which there are very few traces, but tons of obfuscation. That a passenger plane disappears without a trace is not credible. Personally, I believe it was remotely hijacked using Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot and landed at the US base at Diego Garcia. Interestingly, the Donbass locals reported 4 months later the MH17 victims 4 months later looked Asian and there was a strong smell of formalin…

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 16:14 utc | 38

Alex Christoforou (in Athens & temporarily excluded from YT) has an interesting comment on Telegram

https://t.me/thedurancom/12203
More videos on the way, I have some interesting stuff on the plane crash in Greece, the Ukrainian Antonov

So I guess there are more plane crash stories related to Ukraine to investigate. Funny it happens almost as an anniversary to MH17, but that is surely a coincidence.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 16:44 utc | 40

Lex #50, I appreciate your comment.
I read comments 90% less than I used to. But am waiting on plumber and tired of cleaning. Definitely a poor day for much of the commenting. Slavyangrad on telegram more my forte. Military summary I watch on rumble.
I have friends (plural) off in Germany protesting, again, getting arrested about the positioning of offensive (in many ways) nuclear weapons based to be dropped on Russia.
And via Pepe and Slavyangrad (originally from MOD) that
” 80 years ago, the Battle of Stalingrad began. This is one of the largest and fiercest battles, which radically changed the course of the Great Patriotic War and World War II.
▫️In the summer of 1942, fascist troops launched an offensive on the southern wing of the front with the aim of capturing the Don, Kuban, Lower Volga and the oil regions of the Caucasus. The attack on Stalingrad was carried out by the 6th Army under the command of General Friedrich Paulus, specially allocated from Army Group B. The 6th Army was supported by the aviation of the 4th Air Fleet.
▫️ They were opposed by the Stalingrad Front, which included the 62nd, 63rd, 64th, 21st, 28th, 38th, 57th Armies and the 8th Air Army of the former Southwestern Front. The front was commanded by Marshal of the Soviet Union Semyon Timoshenko, and from July 23 – Lieutenant General Vasily Gordov.
◽️ The forces of the Germans outnumbered the Soviet troops in people – 1.7 times, in artillery and tanks – 1.3 times, in aircraft – more than 2 times.
▫️The Soviet army managed to force the Germans first to get bogged down in defensive battles, and later, as a result of Operation Uranus, the German troops were forced to retreat.”
This pacifist has read and liked books by Glantz and Martenyanov back in 2015 over my concerns with the facists in Ukraine and the NATO cancer.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Jul 17 2022 16:50 utc | 42

Norwegian, I doubt how seriously the US would have taken the tribunal (which was not the first of its kind btw):
“However, being a tribunal of conscience, the five-member panel chaired by tribunal president judge Lamin Mohd Yunus had no power to enforce or impose custodial sentence on the convicted eight.”
About HIMARS, I think it was Alexander Mercouris who pointed out the obvious fact that it would not be in the Russians’ interest to provide “evidence” that it has gotten hold of those systems and is now taking it apart somewhere in Siberia.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:01 utc | 44

…however I do believe it would be possible to hijack those planes remotely.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:08 utc | 46

New article by Dimitri Lascaris, this time on the charlatan … (dunno whether it has been linked before)
UKRAINE’S ‘SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE’ IS A WESTERN FICTION

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 17 2022 17:16 utc | 48

MH17
I think the DPR/LPR had one BUK system on territory, not clear it was operational or was a complete system with companion RADAR vehicles or if they had trained operators. UAF had deployed systems within range of aircraft track. [my understanding is that without linked RADAR array operating the window of opportunity to detect and fire is only about a minute or two – almost impossible to find a random high flying target and lock on and fire before out of range]
Eyewitnesses saw aircraft in area of shootdown, no BUK launch seen.
Kiev prevented international investigative teams from reaching the area for weeks if I recall. Tried to capture the area of the crash but failed. It was possible to reach the site, but not from Kiev.
Investigation proceedings all secret with Russia excluded and Kiev with veto power over results release.
Kiev had control over aircraft flight path and deviated it over combat area instead of usual path to the south.
Kiev did not release radar data or info from black boxes.
Europeans were reluctant to join anti-Russian sanctions (over Crimea) until after shootdown.
Which party had something to gain from the tragedy? Only Kiev and US (which was already trying to stop NS2)
Investigation still secret – only public finger pointing and ‘findings’ based on partial/incomplete evidence has been made public. Essentially only a trial in the media has occurred.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 17 2022 17:28 utc | 50

jonathanW @69
Assume that is the case. Most of them are heavy users or have other vices. Compromat rules the world since we have smartphones.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2022 17:36 utc | 52

@Gabriel | Jul 17 2022 15:34 utc | 40
The thing is not that not some of the points you raised are not worth to be discussed, in fact they have a lot over the course of years. Matter of fact is that you drop in and start to insult the barflies like a drunken Azovite.
If you step down from your throne of imposted omniscience, condescension and arrogance, present factual arguments and best some references, it will be a better base to exchange views and information. If not, your life here will be short.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 17 2022 17:42 utc | 54

@CM of Berlin, HIMARS destroyed a large handful of huge depots – by itself not enough to cause lasting “shell hunger” but more than enough to force Russia to adopt a less efficient but more distributed supply network.
“House of Officers” is mainly a cultural center, that you find in all post-soviet cities. Maybe during wartime it could be pressed into some sort of service, but it most certainly isn’t a “headquarters”. Russia claimed to know countries of origin, entry point and internal route of the supposed foreign delegation. That implies they knew names which could easily be released to verify against obituaries – Ukrainian info control on casualties obviously doesn’t apply to foreigners. Of course they won’t release any evidence to support their claims because it’s a low-effort fantasy. The real point of the strike was to demonstrate some “escalation” to signal displeasure with recent Western arms deliveries. They can’t escalate on the battlefield, where they are already giving 100% effort, so they drop some missiles on a glorified concert hall and pretend they blew up Raytheon and the UA air force brass in one swoop. Sad stuff but as long as there are credulous westerners to eat it up, why not?

Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 18:05 utc | 56

Two Himars had been destroyed, birds say…By the way, it is not a super weapon, but just Ukrainian hype…and, American advertising…
Himars (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) are on rubber tires, but can shoot 6 rockets at a time, so not as good as the Russian S-400, Smerch etc.

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 18:07 utc | 58

There is an article on “houses of officers” on Wikipedia. So everyone can make up their minds whether these are military targets or not.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Military_Officers
But let us not forget: during Nato’s 1999 campaign in Yugoslavia the Serbian TV building was considered a military target by Nato because itcwas disseminating “propaganda”.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 18:15 utc | 60

Yenwoda is surprised, even hurt, that …. GASP … there are people in the West that are not following official propaganda! Imagine that!

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2022 18:21 utc | 62

@Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 16:44 utc | 58

So I guess there are more plane crash stories related to Ukraine to investigate.

Video report from Alex Christoforou
Greece, Antonov plane crash. Zaporizhzhia Avenger destroys 6 Russian planes.
Both official and alternative narrative presented.
Spoiler: Alternative unconfirmed narrative is that the Ukrainian plane was carrying weapons to Ukraine.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:27 utc | 64

Tbh I am a bit tired of MH17, had the discussion over years.
Some points:
– Before Antimaidan in East Ukraine, the Russian President regularly flew over Kiev-Dnyepropetrovsk-Rostov route when bound to Sochi. There have been flight plans for the presidential machine the Kremlin bureaucracy had submitted in advance. Yet, since the outbreak of hostilities when Kiev started the “ATO” aka Ukrainian civil war, no official Russian plane took that route.
– it is possible though, and was asserted, that a valid flight plan and slot existed for the time of the MH17 tragedy. The presidential machine and MH17 crossed or touched their routes in Polish airspace near Warsaw. So it cannot be excluded that negligent observers indeed believed to have the presidential machine in focus (though I doubt).
– Much of the “evidence” the SBU, Bellingcrap, and other NATO fake and troll factories presented very fast after the tragedy bear marks of having been fabricated weeks, partially longer, prior to the event. That strongly suggests that it was no accidential, but a thoroughly planned shootdown.
I deem it quie likely that the SBU originally thought they could shoot down the presidential machine, and put the blame on the “separatists”. That would have been an incredible success for them. I am not sure when they got aware that the target was MH17, maybe they still believed it were the “right target” as late as when the plane crossed Borispol, or even – less likely – Dnipro control. But at some point, they may have decided to shoot down a plane no matter which one.
As to the battery who shot I think it was the one originally located outside the village of Zaroshenskye where it was caught by Russian satellite imagery the morning before. But the shooting was done about 20km southwest of that location as calculations by Almaz Antey using the shrapnel patterns on the wreckage, and own trials with passenger plane rumps found out. Interestingly, on the day Almaz Antey published their results, many weeks after the tragedy, the Ukraine started a 24hr barrage with Grad and barrel artillery at the assumed point of launch though there had never been any military of either side in that area. Only an old woman was killed in her dacha.
Still we have the immortal words of John Kerry: “We picked the imagery of that launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from.” Until today, after initial promises, also to the US press corps, those satellite or reconnaissance plane pictures have not been published.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 17 2022 18:33 utc | 66

Sam Smith @ 59
I had a conversation with a USAF colonel once about Iran and the US. I told him that the Iranians would sink US aircraft carriers if it came to that. He said, if that’s the case, the US would nuke Iran.
If that is done then you would have a a few naval nuclear reactors sitting in the Persian Gulf in some state of not being in control. Not sure if a meltdown would be probable in that case but one would have to take into account the possibility.
The next naval war will be a big mess with all those reactors floating around.

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 17 2022 18:36 utc | 68

Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 17 2022 17:28 utc | 68
MH17
..Eyewitnesses saw aircraft in area of shootdown, no BUK launch seen….
I followed very closely when MH17 being shot down… BBC video in LiveLeak two lady pointing at the (sky) BUK’s exhaust from different direction.. not from the Separatists but from Ukraine side… BBC video was deleted… shortly
LiveLeak a Brit channel close.. download I saved, but later deleted all Donetsk and Luhansk major political events… especially Graham Phillips, Russell Bonner Bentley Texan Donbass, Igor Strelkov (the Shooter leader of Separatists… I’m especially sad the two Donbass generals were assassinated by the fucking Ukraine (forgotten their names one something Zuckr??… and he other M???…. BTW Graham vlog still available in Youtube, Russell Bonner Bentley Texan (vlog taken down by Youtube, Igor Strelkov YouTube removed.. It was this time Bellingcat founder Eliot Higgins show up…

Posted by: JC | Jul 17 2022 18:40 utc | 70

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:30 utc | 85
Please, spare us such idiotic videos, where some people, which want to say something, to appear on screen, share something which ends with some idiotic claim. It is not worth to wait 16 minutes to watch that.
I hope you heard about “ghost of Kyev”?
That what is going on in Ukraine is serious! Please, no jokes.
Otherwise i like your comments very much!

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 18:45 utc | 72

@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83
@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83
It’s way too much work, too much planning,just smash a jet into a building
Good thinking; but how would you plan to totally demolish three buildings with just two planes ??

Posted by: Lapin | Jul 17 2022 18:51 utc | 74

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:30 utc | 85
What you may distil from that video is that a Uki military plane was flying from Serbia over Greece. Well on the other hand we know Saudi Arabia has now been promised weapons by Biden (to be used on Yem Iguess or maybe against Iran) and the Saudi airspace is being opened to Israeli planes (officially civilian ones). One of the sources Alex is quoting suggests that Russia knows about this and is okay with it but nevertheless the plane just happened to crash.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 18:55 utc | 76

@preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 18:45 utc | 92
Watch the video, it is extremely serious contents regarding the Antonov plane crash and what it implies.
The “Zaporozhia Avenger” is a satirical “clown story”, if you have followd Alex Christoforou he adds such satirical stories.
Please do not judge something you have not seen.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:58 utc | 78

@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83
Poll any architect or structural engineer and ask what odds they would give to the ‘official’ narrative regarding the possibility of multiple total structural failures under the claimed circumstances.
I know the answer.
I am both a professional architect and an engineer and have posited this question to a great many of my colleagues.
Some will agree – Total cataclysmic structural failure may be a reasonable conclusion ONLY in the case of very special circumstances (imagine bumping into a chair which then collapses due to all four legs snapping in the same place at the same instant).
The odds of multiple such identical modes of failure under conditions which inherently physically differ in almost all aspects (regardless of the superficial similarities) are categorically near impossible… unless the legs have all been critically compromised. LoL!

Posted by: Spinworthy | Jul 17 2022 19:13 utc | 80

Exile | Jul 17 2022 16:14 utc | 55
Söder (the big cheese in Bavaria)…
Maybe the big cheese also had a look at the map recently, realizing that Bavaria, way down south, would be last in line of all German states to receive LNG, when things start to get really ugly. I was honestly surprised by his statement.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 17 2022 19:16 utc | 82

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 17 2022 17:16 utc | 66
That article reminds us that Zelensky had initially promised to pursue peace….rather like BoJo, who (incredibly) had promised to pursue peace with Russia. Both folded after meeting…someone. It is said that BoJo was a changed man after a meeting with MI6. Is this show run by someone wielding the power of kopromat or what the hell is going on?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:31 utc | 69

King is made buy court. When he enters office deep state offers information which leads to certain decisions. Alsou surroundings influence much including vasal states. Sligtly sociopathic Trump coul be less influenced buy common norms.
With Z-elensky it is more easy. He standed on knees promising peace. But he is surrounded buy nationalists and too proud patriots whish don’t want a compromise with “asiatic subhuman fino-ugric hybrids with mongolians with european slavic language”. If he would act different he would face 10 000 armed Azov nazis. Who are just too stupid to make realistic decisions.
I guess his intentions were good. But he was better at acting and stage.
@ Posted by: Lex | Jul 17 2022 16:06 utc | 50
Totaly agree. Patriotic posture, bravado, revolutionary courage would lead to fast defeat.
In 1990 Ukraine was quite a perspective country… Gorbachov promised better world. Economics of Poland, Russia, Belarus etc exept Ukraine actualy went into simmilar trajectories. Just the Ukraine experienced anout 0 development. At the time russian elites (exept military) – oligarchs wanted to be part of global Empire of the West. Russians had a lot of suspicion and quite a bad opinions about China. Unlike USA who had close trade relationships with China.
Not shure what is better, russian oligarchs and buerocrats spending state resources in Côte d’Azur or a global confrontation.

Posted by: Alef | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 84

@Jonathan W, I absolutely second your suggestion that everyone should read that description and decide for themselves whether it represents a legitimate military target of such importance that striking it satisfies the proportionality principal of the laws of war, given that significant civilian casualties were to be expected when hitting the city center next to medical clinic in the middle of the day. For my part it does not come close, and if Ukraine were to bomb the corresponding building in Belgorod I would consider that a war crime.
@lex talionis, this is a good summary of the case, which I find far more convincing than the swarm of bad photoshops and conflicting theories with which Russia tried to flood the zone: https://criminalfilesmh17.prosecutionservice.nl/introduction
@alek_a, seems to me that plenty of people around here have paired their skepticism toward western government narratives with a deep, implicit faith in Russian government narratives. Doesn’t seem like a virtue or cause for smugness, but to each his own
@ostro, Smerch is a potent system (S-400 in a different category all together). But the point isn’t that HIMARS+M270 gives Ukraine capabilities beyond what Russia has (although I think GMLRS rockets are more accurate than 9M Russian series). The point is that they give Ukraine capabilities which it didn’t have a month ago, which is forcing Russia to adapt in ways that make its supply lines less efficient.

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 86

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 19:07 utc | 100
I know but the Poland/Uki connection is so well known by now it hardly merits a cover story but can be turned into a cover story in its own right. And the “meat” can be anything, the sky’s the limit but one suspects some movement in Saudi after Biden’s “flop”.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 19:24 utc | 88

Some serious thinking:
The Russian leadership will not finish off the European Union, which has found itself facing a severe energy crisis. This statement was made by the deputy general director of the National Energy Institute, economist Aleksandar Frolov.
In the context of the economic confrontation between the West and the Russian Federation, the logical question arises for many – why not close the valves and leave Europe without hydrocarbons.
In theory, such a move could sober up Moscow’s opponents and push them toward a more pragmatic and cautious policy. The problem is that the EU in its current form is not an independent toy in the international arena. Therefore, even without Russian raw materials, it will continue to operate as a conductor of foreign will until it collapses due to numerous problems.
The leadership of the Russian Federation is well aware of this and is trying to prevent it. But there are two reasons for this, said Aleksandar Frolov.
As you can guess, one is political and the other is economic. According to the expert, Russia is interested in Europe being prosperous and rich.
Now, as a result of external influence, it tends to become poor and unbalanced, which creates the threat of a “crazy explosion” in the immediate vicinity of the Russian Federation. This state of affairs does not suit Moscow at all, because in one way or another it negatively affects itself.
“Now the main task is to raise awareness or replace European leaders. Because finishing off Europe means playing by the rules of the United States, which needs the complete collapse of the EU. Strangely, by keeping one enemy afloat, we violate the plans of our main enemy”, says Frolov.
Interestingly, around last year the American and some European media began to promote the thesis about the possibility of famine in the EU.
Washington deliberately aggravated the situation with the help of the media, playing its multi-directional combination to destroy the European Union. But the USA would have achieved much more success in this field if it weren’t for Russia, which tends to keep Europe afloat, the economist concluded.

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 19:30 utc | 90

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 107
in a perfect world it would be easy to agree with you but now that the Western powers and especially NATO/US think they can get away with anything wjile condemning others for everything, it is more difficult. Lest we forget: only last August the US killed a family including kids as a reprisal for the attack on the US military at the Kabul airport. For the US that was just business as usual and shit happens.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 19:34 utc | 92

So was the Antonov Ukrainian plane not going to it’s stated destination – Jordan?
The Jordanian “opposition” have said that there is/was a plan for Jordan to establish a 35 km wide “security” zone in the South – as Turkey wants to in the North of Syria.
https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/status/1548721680633184256/photo/1
I would add that the top General in charge of Centcom’s recent visit to Al-Tanf is unusual. (Since when does the Top general visit foreign occupied territories?
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The UK has base in Jordan, and there is a second US base in Iraq just opposite Al-Tanf. Obviously Israel could be behind the idea of stealing enough territory to secure itself from possible Syrian access to Golan. A 35 kilometer security line would also halt Iranian access to Syria, if extended to Al-Bukamal.
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The movement of the SAA to the North to fight against Turkey and other militants might allow a “window” for an outright attack on Syria.
It would also be awkward for the Russians.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 17 2022 19:47 utc | 94

@ 107 yenwoda – I will read what you posted when I have a few minutes.
I suggest you check out Flight MH17, Ukraine and the new Cold War: Prism of disaster by Kees van der Pijl
MH 17 book – Manchester University Press

Posted by: lex talionis | Jul 17 2022 19:53 utc | 96

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 17 2022 19:47 utc | 116
the point being: some explosives were heading for some friendly states to be used against the “axis of evil”: Syria and/or Iran. The use of a Uki plane suggests the uki conflict is indeed metastasizing into the Middle East.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 20:01 utc | 98