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July 17, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-112

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on July 17, 2022 at 12:20 UTC | Permalink

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Russia is winning and now a new attack has started. Go Russia

Thanks b

Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 17 2022 12:29 utc | 1

Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine (17072022)


As a result of high-precision strikes by the Russian Aerospace Forces at the temporary deployment point of the 92nd mechanized brigade in the city of Chuguev, Kharkiv region, up to 200 personnel of the 2nd and 3rd battalions of the compound, as well as more than ten armored vehicles, were destroyed.

Against the background of significant losses in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, cases of desertion are increasing.

Thus, the rifle company of the 58th battalion of the 104th separate Territorial Defense Brigade, which was under the operational subordination of the commander of the 108th battalion of the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade, in the area of the Verkhnekamenskoye settlement of the Donetsk People's Republic, left its positions in full force, departing in an unknown direction.

High-precision long-range air-based missiles in one of the buildings of an industrial enterprise in the city of Odessa destroyed the storage warehouse of anti-ship missiles "Harpoon", transferred to Ukraine by NATO countries.

In the area of the settlement of Krasnoarmeysk of the Donetsk People's Republic, a high-precision ground-based weapon destroyed a launcher and a transport loading vehicle of the HIMARS multiple launch rocket system, manufactured by the United States.

As a result of the strike on the deployment point of the 97th battalion of the 60th Motorized Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of the settlement of Novodanilovka, Zaporozhye region, up to 65 nationalists and over 10 units of special vehicles were destroyed.

In addition, high-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed during the day:

Four control points, including the battalion of the 59th Motorized Infantry Brigade in the area of Zeleny Gai of the Mykolaiv region and the 242nd battalion of the 241st Territorial Defense Brigade in the area of Dergachi of the Kharkiv region,

six ammunition depots in the areas of the settlements of Bondarnoye and Vasyukovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Malinovka of the Zaporozhye region, Chervonoye of the Sumy region,

as well as military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and manpower in 19 districts, including foreign mercenaries in four temporary locations in the districts of Konstantinovka, Kharkiv region and Dzerzhinsk, Donetsk People's Republic.

As part of the counter-battery struggle, a platoon of multiple rocket launchers, nine artillery platoons of Hyacinth-B howitzers and D-30 guns were destroyed in the areas of Verkhnekamenskoye, Serebryanka, Bondarnoye, Dronovka and Zvanovka settlements of the Donetsk People's Republic, as well as artillery units in firing positions in 107 districts.

Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery have been hit during the day: 21 control points, manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 189 districts.

Fighter aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces shot down a Ukrainian Mi-17 helicopter in the air near Slavyansk, Donetsk People's Republic.

Russian air defense means destroyed one Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force in the area of Velikaya Kamyshevakha, Kharkiv region, and one Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle in the area of the settlement of Bolshye Prokhody, Kharkiv region.

In addition, a Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missile was intercepted in the area of the settlement of Dmitrenko, Kherson region, and eight shells of multiple launch rocket systems "Hurricane" and "HIMARS" were intercepted in the districts of Izyum, Kharkiv region, Tavria, Zaporozhye region and Alchevsk, Luhansk People's Republic.

In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 257 aircraft, 140 helicopters, 1558 unmanned aerial vehicles, 355 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4084 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 747 multiple rocket launchers, 3151 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 4379 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

Posted by: Summary17072022 | Jul 17 2022 12:29 utc | 2

July 17th is my birthday, it is also the birthday of my Russian Grandfather. Historically, July 17th has been an eventful day in Russian events and history.
I will never forget the year my birthday was ruined by the ukie false flag airline downing!
rip to all the lost Souls of this Conflict.
and most importantly, May your soul always rest in Heaven Deda Alex Konkin

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 13:01 utc | 3

Posted by: Summary17072022 | Jul 17 2022 12:29 utc | 2

Thanks for the update

Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 17 2022 13:19 utc | 4

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 13:01 utc | 3

The MH-17 tragedy is yet another reason to never trust NATO. John Kerry said over and over that the US government has evidence that the plane was shot down by Russia. Over and over he refused to show any evidence at all though. Then the investigation was heavily skewed. I believe Theodore Postol did an independent investigation and found that Ukraine shot down the airliner, but that evidence was ignored because Bellingcat said the opposite. The ‘west’ is full of liars and scum, letting real murderers walk free.

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 13:26 utc | 5

@BurnEye

Happy Birthday !

You wanna talk about ruined birthdates ? Mine is Sept. 11th…

Posted by: Featherless | Jul 17 2022 13:28 utc | 6

oh my @featherless ! you definitely take the birthday cake for that one!
although, it could also be considered the turning point of ultimate corruption and implosion of the zioanglosaxon empire! or at least the ultimate moral decline of the American empire.
also, thank you all for the birthday wishes.

@caveman as for trusting the USSA or it's propaganda outlets, i haven't believed a word out of them, literally since September 11 2001 when they tried to tell me that physics doesn't exist, and buildings implode faster than gravity without explosives.
since then, everything the mockingbird media has said, I reflect it through a mirror, and take the exact opposite to be true!

much love and respect to all my fellow bar flies and joe tzus on the wall here today.


when your Son films himself smoking crack while banging hookers,make sure he uploads the video to the i-cloud.
- Joe tzu

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 13:43 utc | 7

@Featherless 49 years later Chile is still trying to recover from the US coup.

Posted by: Milton | Jul 17 2022 13:47 utc | 8

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 13:26 utc | 5

Indeed. And: if the West shot down civilian airplane MH17 over Ukraine in July 2014, why would it not have a hand in the "accident" involving Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 in Tehran in January 2020 under Trump? And why not release the coronavirus from one of its overseas mostly peaceful laboratories too? And why not deprive its own citizens of heat and food too, considering that winter is coming? You gotta save the planet, after all.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 13:54 utc | 9

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 13:57 utc | 13

And come to think of it, why not have another 9/11 event in the West to justify a full-blown war against Russia? Like a dirty bomb - as someone suggested in an earlier thread - which would fall under the nuclear attack protocol recently published in New York City? We are running in circles anyway, so why not another 9/11, only this time blaming Russia for it? And the radiation would then be blamed for the "side effects" of the vaccines too.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 14:12 utc | 10

The secret visit of American attaches to the East of Ukraine on 17 July 2014. PART 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4zIdTMRhrs

16 Jul 2022 What were the Americans doing on the day of the downing of the Вoеing in Dnepropetrovsk? Secret visit of high-ranking officers.

Since 2014, this event cannot be considered as something beyond the ordinary. Western curators have "settled" in Ukraine and coordinated all actions of the Ukrainian leadership. However, the arrival of the delegation on July 17, or rather on the day when the Malaysian Вoеing MH17 was shot down, is still alarming.

Moreover, one of them is a highly qualified specialist in the organization of international flights, including in the European-Asian region, the other is a specialist in intelligence and special operations. Both speak excellent Russian.

Maybe it is for this that one of them was recognized as a field officer of the year in the USA?

And why did he work in Ukraine until July 2014? Strange coincidences. There are other interesting facts about which the West is silent.

---

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q__8ikQzqxI

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 14:20 utc | 11

Mariupol today 17th July https://youtu.be/E_83o2AsaVw

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 14:30 utc | 12

Our actions make this collective interdependent dream world we all share a paradise or living nightmare. In this regard my family's legacy speaks for itself.
Joe Tzu.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 17 2022 14:48 utc | 13

Gabriel, my archangel, flying high in the beautiful sky. I love you admire you for the wonderfull
contributions defending the... Oh I dont know who you are defending. Explain yourself so I can have a deeper understanding of your Holy Mission. F.i. Where do you live, what do you do for living, what computer do you use etc. Lookin forward your fly in the sky answers. Eartly answers are appreciated.

Posted by: DutchZ | Jul 17 2022 15:01 utc | 14

Posted by: Gabriel | Jul 17 2022 15:00 utc | 25
------------

Oh, don't get your knickers twisted...😋

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 15:04 utc | 15

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 14:34 utc | 19

Totally correct!
That is burned in my memory for years!
They, and consider, that are soldiers, cut off of informationas, on the battlefield, they thought, Putin is flying over!
So, an crew of some soldiers, maybe even with hangover, thought, they will change world history...
And normaly, hijenas catched the bate and made story out of this incident....

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 15:04 utc | 16

@Caveman | Jul 17 2022 14:34 utc | 19

Correct me if I’m misremembering, but wasn’t the Russian Presidential jet flying over eastern Ukraine that day as well? I remember reading somewhere that it was possible the Ukrainian army thought this plane was Putin’s jet.
Yes, I think that it is correct that the Russian President was flying that day, but I don't think it was directly over Ukraine.

I believe those who did MH17 knew what they were doing and which plane they were dealing with. This was a false flag operation, not an overt attack. Also, remember MH370.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 15:05 utc | 17

settle down people, it's a long road
-----
Gazprom still hasn't received assurances it asked for, that the maintenance obligations of Siemens can be relied on despite sanctions policies of the various western countries involved.

their website is blocked for me (US) so I can't get a proper press release

https://nitter.net/GazpromEN/status/1548226047723704321

Posted by: ptb | Jul 17 2022 15:12 utc | 19

I think that b should give "Gabriel" a short period of time learning to behave like a civilized barfly, before he gets booted.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 17 2022 15:16 utc | 20

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 15:07 utc | 31; ostro I thought you were a real Russian looking
at your command of the Russian language. Now I see your reading the WSJ. How are your shares doing?
I am confused to say the least about you :).

Posted by: DutchZ | Jul 17 2022 15:18 utc | 21

Ghost of McShitstain wrong Angle Gabriel.
what hellish cavern did you crawl out of? definitely a Troll over an angel every day!
Are you even human, or just a deranged algorithm bot?

play violent video games, sell automatic riffles on every street corner, smoke crack, Fk hookers, Upload the video to i-cloud,
Joe Tzu,
aka
the Ghost of Mcshitstain

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 15:24 utc | 22

Last week at least 15 flights of military transport aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces were made to Belarus, birds say...

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 15:29 utc | 23

Also, remember MH370.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 15:05 utc | 30

YEAH there were two MH incidents four months apart in 2014 - the year of the Maidan. MH means Malaysia. There was a banking scandal brewing in Malaysia, involving Goldman Sachs, which proved to be the world's largest of its kind. That was a few years after the financial crisis in the west in 2008-9. But one can surmise only directionally that something is not right here. Just brainstorming further: Malaysia could be tied to Saudi Arabia, another Muslim country, which would have its Khashoggi affair (involving both Jamal and his uncle Adnan both of whom may have known Jeffrey Epstein and Trump) a few years later. This is not really leading anywhere...

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:32 utc | 24

Lack of proper medication can cause this

Posted by: rk | Jul 17 2022 15:38 utc | 25

too vast a subject the Malaysia thing, it was all over the news but mainly in Nikkei Asia Review etc. and very vague.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:39 utc | 26

Markus Söder, Minister-President of Bavaria pointed out that the government may face a difficult decision in the coming week. In his opinion, Russia may announce that the service works on the Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline will take longer, and in return it will offer the launch of Nord Stream 2.

Interesting!

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 15:40 utc | 27

The Malaysia scandal which began in 2015 is called 1Malaysia Development Berhad scandal, not necessarily related to Ukraine - but who knows - one year after the Euro-Maidan...

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:43 utc | 28

It is the anniversary of MH17 being accidentally shot down by DNR separatist forces using a Buk donated by Russia. Thanks in part to incredible open-source reporting, convictions were secured (in absentia) in a Dutch tribunal.

NASA satellite fire detection shows that Russian artillery has been suppressed since HIMARS arrived on the scene. Most likely, Russians have adapted their logistics to eliminate large ammo depots near the front lines and are relying on longer truck trips to replenish units with a correspondingly lower rate of supply, source: https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1548470809764564996

No evidence has been provided for Russian/pro-Russian claims of HIMARS capture, sale or destruction, or for the presence at Vinnytsia House of Officers of any foreign weapon dealers.

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 15:54 utc | 30

i know of at least one who has his yachts, and they forced him to sell his football team and tried to steal his yacht those crooked brits!
has anyone heard or seen from him since he did his patriotic civilian duty, and tried to represent Russia in the original peace talks in Turkey!?

where the evil Nazis poisoned him,and also killed the 2 Ukrainian Generals also attending the negotiations.

I think they said he was lucky to survive, and the poisoned burnt his face?

like seriously, has there been any update on his condition since?

and omg troll!
if you want to discuss corrupt oligarchs, may we please direct you to poreshenko, zooloonsky, and Tucker Carlson's most recent video on Ukrainian Corruption!


Good Day!

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 16:04 utc | 31

Poor Gabriel, trapped in common knowledge of recent history that he believes determines the future and the present. Yes, Gabe, we all know that Russia was a land ruled by oligarchs. Some of us saw it with our own eyes. You might go back to 1999 and track the diverging trajectories of Russia and Ukraine to provide yourself with some much needed context. Crushing the oligarchs was not an overnight job for the Russian state, not to mention that shy of returning to communism, there will always be extra rich people who behave that way. The US and Europe have them, they rule those nations in ways Russian oligarchs can only dream of.

Yes, we’ve all seen Putin grow into his current self. He neglected the internal economic development of Russia for too long, focused on other important matters like getting US companies out of the Russian oil sector, paying off the binding IMF debt and building a modern foreign policy. He tried until at least 2014 to play ball with the West. It was, in hindsight, a mistake but a rational decision.

No, he didn’t support Donbas in ways many Russians wanted to see. He’s a foreign policy realist and so for him stability is next to godliness. Yes, he undercut militia successes with Minsk 1 and 2. He also wasn’t ready to fight. Yes, Russian state organizations may have had a hand in neutralizing militia leaders, or maybe not. Almost anything is possible. Putin was trying to deescalate the situation in order to minimize the chance that we’d all experience what’s happening right now. That might have been a mistake, but his reasons are understandable.

Gabe, you’re far too emotional for geopolitical analysis. You seem to superimpose a western idealistic geopolitical frame over a proclaimed siding with “Russia”. But that’s incorrect and dangerous. It will not produce usable analysis or even analysis that explains past events. You’re just doomer ranting and begging to be respected for it as if it were thoughtful analysis. It’s not. Pounding your shoe on the table with demands to be taken seriously as an oracle of truth doesn’t help.

Posted by: Lex | Jul 17 2022 16:06 utc | 32

First Eye start as Gabriel,
then through the power of the Ghost of McShitstain, I transformed into a yenwoda, when needing to forget my 1st son smokes crack with hookers, and pays them through his credit card, and saves it to my eye cloud. 10 ones for the big guy

Joe Tzu

Posted by: BurnEye Minds3rdEye | Jul 17 2022 16:10 utc | 33

…. Thus, the rifle company of the 58th battalion of the 104th separate Territorial Defense Brigade, which was under the operational subordination of the commander of the 108th battalion of the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade….

Lot to unpack here is today’s MOD update. This one tidbit really stands out. The 10th mountain is a very elite NATO integrated brigade. That Kiev is now attaching Volksturm (the104th territorial) to elite brigades such as the 10th mountain signals (perhaps) complete chaos within the Kiev ground forces.

Chaos complete and utter chaos

Posted by: Exile | Jul 17 2022 16:10 utc | 34

BBC is whining...
Captured Briton John Harding appears in video in Ukraine

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 16:11 utc | 35

Wow...I have never commented before on this site but must say that "gabriel and his rantings" seem to have hit a low that few could exceed. I am a keen admirer of the Russian "slow going action" which minimizes the civilian casualties. As an aside I retired from the USAF after 20 years (DFC, MSM, Bronze Star, numerous air medals, etc) serving in/around Vietnam for over 3 years and participating in "numerous" war games prior to my retirement. The last one I participated in involved Iran and one of our carriers on fire and sinking at its termination.I pray that the USA does not end up going head to head with Russia/China...........

Posted by: tobyt | Jul 17 2022 16:13 utc | 36

Söder (the big cheese in Bavaria) is very practical and not completely beholden to the war party. He also is tied into German Mittelstand industry so he’ll support a healthy discussion regarding NS2.

Unlike the vassals - Barebock and Habeck whose foreign policy appears to be written by Pompeo

Posted by: Exile | Jul 17 2022 16:14 utc | 37

@Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 15:32 utc | 39

YEAH there were two MH incidents four months apart in 2014 - the year of the Maidan. MH means Malaysia. There was a banking scandal brewing in Malaysia, involving Goldman Sachs, which proved to be the world's largest of its kind. That was a few years after the financial crisis in the west in 2008-9. But one can surmise only directionally that something is not right here. Just brainstorming further: Malaysia could be tied to Saudi Arabia, another Muslim country, which would have its Khashoggi affair (involving both Jamal and his uncle Adnan both of whom may have known Jeffrey Epstein and Trump) a few years later. This is not really leading anywhere...
Here is a possible motive for both MH17 and MH370 related to Malaysia (the Ukraine connection to MH17 can be understood as dual purpose/obfuscation):

War Tribunal Finds Bush, Cheney Guilty of War Crimes
Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal orders reparations be given to torture victims
May 13, 2012

Former US President George W Bush, his Vice-President Dick Cheney and six other members of his administration have been found guilty of war crimes by a tribunal in Malaysia.

Bush, Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and five of their legal advisers were tried in their absence and convicted on Saturday.

Victims of torture told a panel of five judges in Kuala Lumpur of their suffering at the hands of US soldiers and contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Among the evidence, Briton Moazzam Begg, an ex-Guantanamo detainee, said he was beaten, put in a hood and left in solitary confinement. Iraqi woman Jameelah Abbas Hameedi said she was stripped and humiliated in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

Transcripts of the five-day trial will be sent to the chief prosecutor at the International Criminal Court, the United Nations and the Security Council.

MH370 8 March 2014 (just after the Ukraine Maidan coup d'etat) from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing disappeared as the flight transitioned from Malaysian to Vietnamese airspace, cut all communication and made a sharp left turn and flew low over the Malaysian/Thai border after which there are very few traces, but tons of obfuscation. That a passenger plane disappears without a trace is not credible. Personally, I believe it was remotely hijacked using Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot and landed at the US base at Diego Garcia. Interestingly, the Donbass locals reported 4 months later the MH17 victims 4 months later looked Asian and there was a strong smell of formalin...

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 16:14 utc | 38

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 15:48 utc | 47

Funny thing is, Habeck is still believing deep in his heart Germany would pump gas from its storage to other countries. That's gonna be a hard landing.

Posted by: TomD | Jul 17 2022 16:20 utc | 39

Alex Christoforou (in Athens & temporarily excluded from YT) has an interesting comment on Telegram

https://t.me/thedurancom/12203
More videos on the way, I have some interesting stuff on the plane crash in Greece, the Ukrainian Antonov

So I guess there are more plane crash stories related to Ukraine to investigate. Funny it happens almost as an anniversary to MH17, but that is surely a coincidence.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 16:44 utc | 40

Posted by: tobyt | Jul 17 2022 16:13 utc | 54

Wow...I have never commented before on this site but must say that "gabriel and his rantings" seem to have hit a low that few could exceed. I am a keen admirer of the Russian "slow going action" which minimizes the civilian casualties. As an aside I retired from the USAF after 20 years (DFC, MSM, Bronze Star, numerous air medals, etc) serving in/around Vietnam for over 3 years and participating in "numerous" war games prior to my retirement. The last one I participated in involved Iran and one of our carriers on fire and sinking at its termination.I pray that the USA does not end up going head to head with Russia/China...........

I had a conversation with a USAF colonel once about Iran and the US. I told him that the Iranians would sink US aircraft carriers if it came to that. He said, if that's the case, the US would nuke Iran.

Is that your understanding as well?

Posted by: Sam Smith | Jul 17 2022 16:46 utc | 41

Lex #50, I appreciate your comment.

I read comments 90% less than I used to. But am waiting on plumber and tired of cleaning. Definitely a poor day for much of the commenting. Slavyangrad on telegram more my forte. Military summary I watch on rumble.

I have friends (plural) off in Germany protesting, again, getting arrested about the positioning of offensive (in many ways) nuclear weapons based to be dropped on Russia.

And via Pepe and Slavyangrad (originally from MOD) that

" 80 years ago, the Battle of Stalingrad began. This is one of the largest and fiercest battles, which radically changed the course of the Great Patriotic War and World War II.

▫️In the summer of 1942, fascist troops launched an offensive on the southern wing of the front with the aim of capturing the Don, Kuban, Lower Volga and the oil regions of the Caucasus. The attack on Stalingrad was carried out by the 6th Army under the command of General Friedrich Paulus, specially allocated from Army Group B. The 6th Army was supported by the aviation of the 4th Air Fleet.

▫️ They were opposed by the Stalingrad Front, which included the 62nd, 63rd, 64th, 21st, 28th, 38th, 57th Armies and the 8th Air Army of the former Southwestern Front. The front was commanded by Marshal of the Soviet Union Semyon Timoshenko, and from July 23 - Lieutenant General Vasily Gordov.

◽️ The forces of the Germans outnumbered the Soviet troops in people - 1.7 times, in artillery and tanks - 1.3 times, in aircraft - more than 2 times.

▫️The Soviet army managed to force the Germans first to get bogged down in defensive battles, and later, as a result of Operation Uranus, the German troops were forced to retreat."

This pacifist has read and liked books by Glantz and Martenyanov back in 2015 over my concerns with the facists in Ukraine and the NATO cancer.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Jul 17 2022 16:50 utc | 42

@paxmark1, what is your overall feeling on the invasion of Ukraine, as a pacifist? I would assume that you oppose it strongly, as it was launched on the same grounds of "preventative war" that was memorialized in the Bush Doctrine, and has resulted in huge numbers of dead and displaced civilians? Presumably any pacifist would be appalled, even if seemed like an opportunity to knock NATO down a peg or whatnot.

Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 16:58 utc | 43

Norwegian, I doubt how seriously the US would have taken the tribunal (which was not the first of its kind btw):

"However, being a tribunal of conscience, the five-member panel chaired by tribunal president judge Lamin Mohd Yunus had no power to enforce or impose custodial sentence on the convicted eight."

About HIMARS, I think it was Alexander Mercouris who pointed out the obvious fact that it would not be in the Russians' interest to provide "evidence" that it has gotten hold of those systems and is now taking it apart somewhere in Siberia.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:01 utc | 44

Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge 😃

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 17:02 utc | 45

...however I do believe it would be possible to hijack those planes remotely.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:08 utc | 46

It is the anniversary of MH17 being accidentally shot down by DNR separatist forces using a Buk donated by Russia. Thanks in part to incredible open-source reporting, convictions were secured (in absentia) in a Dutch tribunal.

NASA satellite fire detection shows that Russian artillery has been suppressed since HIMARS arrived on the scene. Most likely, Russians have adapted their logistics to eliminate large ammo depots near the front lines and are relying on longer truck trips to replenish units with a correspondingly lower rate of supply, source: https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1548470809764564996

No evidence has been provided for Russian/pro-Russian claims of HIMARS capture, sale or destruction, or for the presence at Vinnytsia House of Officers of any foreign weapon dealers.

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 15:54 utc | 48

I would assume that the handful of HIMARS strewn across the frontier will not hinder the Russian artillery that much. There can be multiple reasons why the allied forces chose to attack or not. As with the destruction of the HIMARS claimed by the allies, the Ukrainians will hardly give any report on how many foreigners or officers were present when those missiles struck Vinnitska`s AUF airfore HQ - which would have been a target sooner or later anyway.

Just saying.

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 17 2022 17:13 utc | 47

New article by Dimitri Lascaris, this time on the charlatan ... (dunno whether it has been linked before)

UKRAINE’S ‘SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE’ IS A WESTERN FICTION

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 17 2022 17:16 utc | 48

I did get a blood clot in my leg not long after getting the booster that I believe can probably be attributed to the vaccine, however as a diabetic, I’ll take the clot over the virus any day. Great posts, my friend!

Posted by: Caveman | Jul 17 2022 14:24 utc | 17

Your mileage may vary. I have 8 stents and diabetes. I got 2 shots Feb/March 2021. No boosters. I caught C in April 2022. Three days of fever. That’s it. My sister, similar genes, got infected in June 2022. Two boosters. Very heavy case.

Posted by: RB | Jul 17 2022 17:21 utc | 49

MH17

I think the DPR/LPR had one BUK system on territory, not clear it was operational or was a complete system with companion RADAR vehicles or if they had trained operators. UAF had deployed systems within range of aircraft track. [my understanding is that without linked RADAR array operating the window of opportunity to detect and fire is only about a minute or two - almost impossible to find a random high flying target and lock on and fire before out of range]

Eyewitnesses saw aircraft in area of shootdown, no BUK launch seen.

Kiev prevented international investigative teams from reaching the area for weeks if I recall. Tried to capture the area of the crash but failed. It was possible to reach the site, but not from Kiev.

Investigation proceedings all secret with Russia excluded and Kiev with veto power over results release.

Kiev had control over aircraft flight path and deviated it over combat area instead of usual path to the south.

Kiev did not release radar data or info from black boxes.

Europeans were reluctant to join anti-Russian sanctions (over Crimea) until after shootdown.

Which party had something to gain from the tragedy? Only Kiev and US (which was already trying to stop NS2)

Investigation still secret - only public finger pointing and 'findings' based on partial/incomplete evidence has been made public. Essentially only a trial in the media has occurred.


Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 17 2022 17:28 utc | 50

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 17 2022 17:16 utc | 66

That article reminds us that Zelensky had initially promised to pursue peace....rather like BoJo, who (incredibly) had promised to pursue peace with Russia. Both folded after meeting...someone. It is said that BoJo was a changed man after a meeting with MI6. Is this show run by someone wielding the power of kopromat or what the hell is going on?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:31 utc | 51

jonathanW @69

Assume that is the case. Most of them are heavy users or have other vices. Compromat rules the world since we have smartphones.

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2022 17:36 utc | 52

@Posted by: Sam Smith | Jul 17 2022 16:46 utc | 59

If the US nuked Iran every single oil field in the Middle East would be destroyed by Iranian missiles, and Israeli cities would be laid waste with the 1000s and 1000s of missiles pointed at it in Lebanon etc. This could have already happened of course given that no such thing would happen unless the US had attacked Iran. Then Russia would probably (have) sanction(ed) the West from its fossil fuel exports, completing the utter destruction of the Western economies.

Also, using nukes against civilian concentrations is a war crime (especially a first use against a non-nuclear power) - the West would lose all legitimacy with respect to 7/8ths of the world's population (the level of anger in those nations may lead to severe impacts for US interests across the world, most especially in Moslem nations), and probably a big percentage of its own populations. There would have to be Western internment camps for Iranian citizens and perhaps many Iranians with Western citizenship given how many may have lost relatives to the US attack. Its also well on the way to full WW3, which none of us will survive.

I feel that the US leaders are full of bravado, but when the actual decision comes they may very well be thinking of the lives of their own children and their own lives given the economic and social collapse that would happen in the West. We see this with respect to Ukraine, and it was the case with the Israeli wars during Cold War 1 where restraint was utilized to stop an escalation to WW3. Fighting through proxies is fine, invading weak enemies when Russia and China were weak was ok. In the latter case, the scale of the consequences to the US with a powerful Russia and China provides consequences that will restrict the US actions. Those consequences get bigger every day with the increasing power of Russia and China (and Iran).

Posted by: Roger | Jul 17 2022 17:41 utc | 53

@Gabriel | Jul 17 2022 15:34 utc | 40
The thing is not that not some of the points you raised are not worth to be discussed, in fact they have a lot over the course of years. Matter of fact is that you drop in and start to insult the barflies like a drunken Azovite.
If you step down from your throne of imposted omniscience, condescension and arrogance, present factual arguments and best some references, it will be a better base to exchange views and information. If not, your life here will be short.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 17 2022 17:42 utc | 54

What is astonishing about the possibility of kompromat being used against these politicians is this: how sordid can anything that Zelensky has done in secret be? After all, he has played the piano with his dick on TV. Plus he has appeared stoned on social media. And everyone knows about his mansions.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:54 utc | 55

@CM of Berlin, HIMARS destroyed a large handful of huge depots - by itself not enough to cause lasting "shell hunger" but more than enough to force Russia to adopt a less efficient but more distributed supply network.

"House of Officers" is mainly a cultural center, that you find in all post-soviet cities. Maybe during wartime it could be pressed into some sort of service, but it most certainly isn't a "headquarters". Russia claimed to know countries of origin, entry point and internal route of the supposed foreign delegation. That implies they knew names which could easily be released to verify against obituaries - Ukrainian info control on casualties obviously doesn't apply to foreigners. Of course they won't release any evidence to support their claims because it's a low-effort fantasy. The real point of the strike was to demonstrate some "escalation" to signal displeasure with recent Western arms deliveries. They can't escalate on the battlefield, where they are already giving 100% effort, so they drop some missiles on a glorified concert hall and pretend they blew up Raytheon and the UA air force brass in one swoop. Sad stuff but as long as there are credulous westerners to eat it up, why not?

Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 18:05 utc | 56

Interesting week.

I can tell russias go slow approach is still posing conceptual problems for some. I'd disregard any proposal which puts it at the foot of mythical HIMARS altar. From just the videos i've seen today that RU artillery isn't slowing down at all.

Instead i'd propose that when America & NATO cheerfully boasted they'd like a new afghanistan for russia, the russians complied like all good hosts should.

NATO's problem is that they forgot they're playing the part of the evil empire and the longer russia keeps the going slow and constant the more NATO et al bleeds into the meat grinder.

As for the UKR contract antonov going down over greece, well... we'll see what way that goes if Aleksandar Vučić hangs Stefanović from a streetlight.

Posted by: S.O. | Jul 17 2022 18:07 utc | 57

Two Himars had been destroyed, birds say...By the way, it is not a super weapon, but just Ukrainian hype...and, American advertising...

Himars (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) are on rubber tires, but can shoot 6 rockets at a time, so not as good as the Russian S-400, Smerch etc.

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 18:07 utc | 58

Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 18:05 utc | 76
-------------------
Oh, don't get your knickers twisted...

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 18:09 utc | 59

There is an article on "houses of officers" on Wikipedia. So everyone can make up their minds whether these are military targets or not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Military_Officers

But let us not forget: during Nato's 1999 campaign in Yugoslavia the Serbian TV building was considered a military target by Nato because itcwas disseminating "propaganda".

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 18:15 utc | 60

@ 48 yenwoda - I do not at all believe the "DNR separatists" shot down MH 17. Where is the evidence, aside from Bellingkitten?

MH 17 is a tragedy I lay at the feet of Obama and Hato's puppetmasters.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jul 17 2022 18:17 utc | 61

Yenwoda is surprised, even hurt, that …. GASP … there are people in the West that are not following official propaganda! Imagine that!

Posted by: alek_a | Jul 17 2022 18:21 utc | 62

"House of Officers" is mainly a cultural center,...

Posted by: Yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 18:05 utc | 76
....

Sure, White House is mental asylum...or, a hospice...😋

Posted by: pppp | Jul 17 2022 18:25 utc | 63

@Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 16:44 utc | 58

So I guess there are more plane crash stories related to Ukraine to investigate.

Video report from Alex Christoforou
Greece, Antonov plane crash. Zaporizhzhia Avenger destroys 6 Russian planes.

Both official and alternative narrative presented.

Spoiler: Alternative unconfirmed narrative is that the Ukrainian plane was carrying weapons to Ukraine.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:27 utc | 64

Alex Christoforou report about the Ukrainian Antonov crash in Greece
Greece, Antonov plane crash. Zaporizhzhia Avenger destroys 6 Russian planes.

Interesting story to say the least

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:30 utc | 65

Tbh I am a bit tired of MH17, had the discussion over years.

Some points:
- Before Antimaidan in East Ukraine, the Russian President regularly flew over Kiev-Dnyepropetrovsk-Rostov route when bound to Sochi. There have been flight plans for the presidential machine the Kremlin bureaucracy had submitted in advance. Yet, since the outbreak of hostilities when Kiev started the "ATO" aka Ukrainian civil war, no official Russian plane took that route.
- it is possible though, and was asserted, that a valid flight plan and slot existed for the time of the MH17 tragedy. The presidential machine and MH17 crossed or touched their routes in Polish airspace near Warsaw. So it cannot be excluded that negligent observers indeed believed to have the presidential machine in focus (though I doubt).
- Much of the "evidence" the SBU, Bellingcrap, and other NATO fake and troll factories presented very fast after the tragedy bear marks of having been fabricated weeks, partially longer, prior to the event. That strongly suggests that it was no accidential, but a thoroughly planned shootdown.

I deem it quie likely that the SBU originally thought they could shoot down the presidential machine, and put the blame on the "separatists". That would have been an incredible success for them. I am not sure when they got aware that the target was MH17, maybe they still believed it were the "right target" as late as when the plane crossed Borispol, or even - less likely - Dnipro control. But at some point, they may have decided to shoot down a plane no matter which one.

As to the battery who shot I think it was the one originally located outside the village of Zaroshenskye where it was caught by Russian satellite imagery the morning before. But the shooting was done about 20km southwest of that location as calculations by Almaz Antey using the shrapnel patterns on the wreckage, and own trials with passenger plane rumps found out. Interestingly, on the day Almaz Antey published their results, many weeks after the tragedy, the Ukraine started a 24hr barrage with Grad and barrel artillery at the assumed point of launch though there had never been any military of either side in that area. Only an old woman was killed in her dacha.

Still we have the immortal words of John Kerry: "We picked the imagery of that launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from." Until today, after initial promises, also to the US press corps, those satellite or reconnaissance plane pictures have not been published.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jul 17 2022 18:33 utc | 66

@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83

The explosives never made sense to me anyways, too much logistical work that could go awry and no evidence to back it up besides some chemical residue in the wreckage. It's way too much work, too much planning,just smash a jet into a building using some saudi intelligence assets, much simpler.

I have got 20 year old news for you: No jet smashed into WTC7, it still fell symmetrically into its own footprint in free fall acceleration.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:35 utc | 67

Sam Smith @ 59
I had a conversation with a USAF colonel once about Iran and the US. I told him that the Iranians would sink US aircraft carriers if it came to that. He said, if that's the case, the US would nuke Iran.

If that is done then you would have a a few naval nuclear reactors sitting in the Persian Gulf in some state of not being in control. Not sure if a meltdown would be probable in that case but one would have to take into account the possibility.

The next naval war will be a big mess with all those reactors floating around.

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 17 2022 18:36 utc | 68

How Putin is killing Biden’s presidency

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 18:36 utc | 69

Posted by: the pessimist | Jul 17 2022 17:28 utc | 68

MH17

..Eyewitnesses saw aircraft in area of shootdown, no BUK launch seen....

I followed very closely when MH17 being shot down... BBC video in LiveLeak two lady pointing at the (sky) BUK's exhaust from different direction.. not from the Separatists but from Ukraine side... BBC video was deleted... shortly

LiveLeak a Brit channel close.. download I saved, but later deleted all Donetsk and Luhansk major political events... especially Graham Phillips, Russell Bonner Bentley Texan Donbass, Igor Strelkov (the Shooter leader of Separatists... I'm especially sad the two Donbass generals were assassinated by the fucking Ukraine (forgotten their names one something Zuckr??... and he other M???.... BTW Graham vlog still available in Youtube, Russell Bonner Bentley Texan (vlog taken down by Youtube, Igor Strelkov YouTube removed.. It was this time Bellingcat founder Eliot Higgins show up...

Posted by: JC | Jul 17 2022 18:40 utc | 70

I am not falling in the Haegelian dialectic (the kind of "you are with us or against us")

Posted by: Gabriel | Jul 17 2022 15:34 utc | 40

This is a very personal interpretation of the Hegelian dialectic. However, please do not elaborate.

Posted by: Leuk | Jul 17 2022 18:41 utc | 71

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:30 utc | 85

Please, spare us such idiotic videos, where some people, which want to say something, to appear on screen, share something which ends with some idiotic claim. It is not worth to wait 16 minutes to watch that.
I hope you heard about "ghost of Kyev"?
That what is going on in Ukraine is serious! Please, no jokes.
Otherwise i like your comments very much!

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 18:45 utc | 72

Let's keep it on topic: currently Ukraine.

Posted by: donten | Jul 17 2022 18:51 utc | 73

@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83

@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83

It's way too much work, too much planning,just smash a jet into a building

Good thinking; but how would you plan to totally demolish three buildings with just two planes ??

Posted by: Lapin | Jul 17 2022 18:51 utc | 74

Andreas von Buelow argued in his book on 9/11 that the 9/11 planes were remotely guided. Given the positions he held in German government, he was in a position to know.

Posted by: Lysias | Jul 17 2022 18:54 utc | 75

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:30 utc | 85

What you may distil from that video is that a Uki military plane was flying from Serbia over Greece. Well on the other hand we know Saudi Arabia has now been promised weapons by Biden (to be used on Yem Iguess or maybe against Iran) and the Saudi airspace is being opened to Israeli planes (officially civilian ones). One of the sources Alex is quoting suggests that Russia knows about this and is okay with it but nevertheless the plane just happened to crash.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 18:55 utc | 76

Lex at 50
Great summary.
Additionally, he needed time to put together the array of weaponry we are seeing displayed now?
I am impressed even if Gabrial isn't.

Posted by: GEORGE M CHAMBERLAIN | Jul 17 2022 18:55 utc | 77

@preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 18:45 utc | 92

Watch the video, it is extremely serious contents regarding the Antonov plane crash and what it implies.
The "Zaporozhia Avenger" is a satirical "clown story", if you have followd Alex Christoforou he adds such satirical stories.

Please do not judge something you have not seen.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:58 utc | 78

@Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 18:55 utc | 97

The suggested explanation is transport of NATO weapons to Ukraine.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 19:07 utc | 79

@scrobbert | Jul 17 2022 18:23 utc | 83

Poll any architect or structural engineer and ask what odds they would give to the 'official' narrative regarding the possibility of multiple total structural failures under the claimed circumstances.

I know the answer.
I am both a professional architect and an engineer and have posited this question to a great many of my colleagues.

Some will agree - Total cataclysmic structural failure may be a reasonable conclusion ONLY in the case of very special circumstances (imagine bumping into a chair which then collapses due to all four legs snapping in the same place at the same instant).

The odds of multiple such identical modes of failure under conditions which inherently physically differ in almost all aspects (regardless of the superficial similarities) are categorically near impossible... unless the legs have all been critically compromised. LoL!

Posted by: Spinworthy | Jul 17 2022 19:13 utc | 80

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 18:58 utc | 99

I watched video, because I trusted you.
And after I was sorry.
I take no satire in account, when something, like Ukraine, is happening.
I recently joined this portal, because I feel i can contribute something on portal, where very serious, professional people are commenting, despite my english became quite "rusty". But, i am reading this portal for years.
Now, some very established commentators diappeared and I am watching satires...
Sorry, but miss some seriousity...
I think you noticed too, that some people became bored of this thread, including some banal topics...
That makes me alert.

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 19:16 utc | 81

Exile | Jul 17 2022 16:14 utc | 55

Söder (the big cheese in Bavaria)...

Maybe the big cheese also had a look at the map recently, realizing that Bavaria, way down south, would be last in line of all German states to receive LNG, when things start to get really ugly. I was honestly surprised by his statement.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 17 2022 19:16 utc | 82

@preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 19:16 utc | 102

Have a nice day, sir

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 19:21 utc | 83

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 17 2022 17:16 utc | 66

That article reminds us that Zelensky had initially promised to pursue peace....rather like BoJo, who (incredibly) had promised to pursue peace with Russia. Both folded after meeting...someone. It is said that BoJo was a changed man after a meeting with MI6. Is this show run by someone wielding the power of kopromat or what the hell is going on?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 17:31 utc | 69


King is made buy court. When he enters office deep state offers information which leads to certain decisions. Alsou surroundings influence much including vasal states. Sligtly sociopathic Trump coul be less influenced buy common norms.

With Z-elensky it is more easy. He standed on knees promising peace. But he is surrounded buy nationalists and too proud patriots whish don't want a compromise with "asiatic subhuman fino-ugric hybrids with mongolians with european slavic language". If he would act different he would face 10 000 armed Azov nazis. Who are just too stupid to make realistic decisions.
I guess his intentions were good. But he was better at acting and stage.


@ Posted by: Lex | Jul 17 2022 16:06 utc | 50
Totaly agree. Patriotic posture, bravado, revolutionary courage would lead to fast defeat.
In 1990 Ukraine was quite a perspective country... Gorbachov promised better world. Economics of Poland, Russia, Belarus etc exept Ukraine actualy went into simmilar trajectories. Just the Ukraine experienced anout 0 development. At the time russian elites (exept military) - oligarchs wanted to be part of global Empire of the West. Russians had a lot of suspicion and quite a bad opinions about China. Unlike USA who had close trade relationships with China.

Not shure what is better, russian oligarchs and buerocrats spending state resources in Côte d'Azur or a global confrontation.

Posted by: Alef | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 84

Posted by: pppp | Jul 17 2022 18:25 utc | 84
Sigh, someone is abusing my tag, not the first time.
Sorry for off-topic.

Posted by: pppp | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 85

@Jonathan W, I absolutely second your suggestion that everyone should read that description and decide for themselves whether it represents a legitimate military target of such importance that striking it satisfies the proportionality principal of the laws of war, given that significant civilian casualties were to be expected when hitting the city center next to medical clinic in the middle of the day. For my part it does not come close, and if Ukraine were to bomb the corresponding building in Belgorod I would consider that a war crime.

@lex talionis, this is a good summary of the case, which I find far more convincing than the swarm of bad photoshops and conflicting theories with which Russia tried to flood the zone: https://criminalfilesmh17.prosecutionservice.nl/introduction

@alek_a, seems to me that plenty of people around here have paired their skepticism toward western government narratives with a deep, implicit faith in Russian government narratives. Doesn't seem like a virtue or cause for smugness, but to each his own

@ostro, Smerch is a potent system (S-400 in a different category all together). But the point isn't that HIMARS+M270 gives Ukraine capabilities beyond what Russia has (although I think GMLRS rockets are more accurate than 9M Russian series). The point is that they give Ukraine capabilities which it didn't have a month ago, which is forcing Russia to adapt in ways that make its supply lines less efficient.

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 86

@Spinworthy | Jul 17 2022 19:13 utc | 101

I am a structural engineer with many years of Finite Element Analysis experience. I agree with your assessment.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 19:24 utc | 87

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 19:07 utc | 100

I know but the Poland/Uki connection is so well known by now it hardly merits a cover story but can be turned into a cover story in its own right. And the "meat" can be anything, the sky's the limit but one suspects some movement in Saudi after Biden's "flop".

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 19:24 utc | 88

The Dictator of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky dismissed Prosecutor General Irina Venediktova and the head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) Ivan Bakanov. The latter was fired on charges of improper performance of official duties. Oleksiy Symonenko has been appointed Acting Prosecutor General of Ukraine.

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 19:28 utc | 89

Some serious thinking:

The Russian leadership will not finish off the European Union, which has found itself facing a severe energy crisis. This statement was made by the deputy general director of the National Energy Institute, economist Aleksandar Frolov.

In the context of the economic confrontation between the West and the Russian Federation, the logical question arises for many - why not close the valves and leave Europe without hydrocarbons.

In theory, such a move could sober up Moscow's opponents and push them toward a more pragmatic and cautious policy. The problem is that the EU in its current form is not an independent toy in the international arena. Therefore, even without Russian raw materials, it will continue to operate as a conductor of foreign will until it collapses due to numerous problems.

The leadership of the Russian Federation is well aware of this and is trying to prevent it. But there are two reasons for this, said Aleksandar Frolov.

As you can guess, one is political and the other is economic. According to the expert, Russia is interested in Europe being prosperous and rich.

Now, as a result of external influence, it tends to become poor and unbalanced, which creates the threat of a "crazy explosion" in the immediate vicinity of the Russian Federation. This state of affairs does not suit Moscow at all, because in one way or another it negatively affects itself.

"Now the main task is to raise awareness or replace European leaders. Because finishing off Europe means playing by the rules of the United States, which needs the complete collapse of the EU. Strangely, by keeping one enemy afloat, we violate the plans of our main enemy", says Frolov.

Interestingly, around last year the American and some European media began to promote the thesis about the possibility of famine in the EU.

Washington deliberately aggravated the situation with the help of the media, playing its multi-directional combination to destroy the European Union. But the USA would have achieved much more success in this field if it weren't for Russia, which tends to keep Europe afloat, the economist concluded.

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 19:30 utc | 90

Very experienced mid-rise Architect here who is old enough to have studied the WTC structure in school because at the time it was special. The following is the best summary of the question:

….The odds of multiple such identical modes of failure under conditions which inherently physically differ in almost all aspects (regardless of the superficial similarities) are categorically near impossible.….

Agree 100%

Posted by: Exile | Jul 17 2022 19:31 utc | 91

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 107

in a perfect world it would be easy to agree with you but now that the Western powers and especially NATO/US think they can get away with anything wjile condemning others for everything, it is more difficult. Lest we forget: only last August the US killed a family including kids as a reprisal for the attack on the US military at the Kabul airport. For the US that was just business as usual and shit happens.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 19:34 utc | 92

...is forcing Russia to adapt in ways that make its supply lines less efficient.

Posted by: yenwoda | Jul 17 2022 19:22 utc | 107
-----------
That's what the demented One, and Ze the Jew thinks, but nothing can force Russia to adapt in ways...Every hiding place in Kiev (or even in Lvov) is known to Russia, and Russia can destroy all the decision centres any given time, but Ze must be alive at the end of the SMO/unconditional surrender of Ukraine.

Ah, those hyper advertised expensive US weapons...😏
Check why the super-duper F35s don't ever come near the Russian border. Russia started this SMO, knowing very well how weak is US/NATO.

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 19:39 utc | 93

So was the Antonov Ukrainian plane not going to it's stated destination - Jordan?

The Jordanian "opposition" have said that there is/was a plan for Jordan to establish a 35 km wide "security" zone in the South - as Turkey wants to in the North of Syria.
https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/status/1548721680633184256/photo/1

I would add that the top General in charge of Centcom's recent visit to Al-Tanf is unusual. (Since when does the Top general visit foreign occupied territories?
*
The UK has base in Jordan, and there is a second US base in Iraq just opposite Al-Tanf. Obviously Israel could be behind the idea of stealing enough territory to secure itself from possible Syrian access to Golan. A 35 kilometer security line would also halt Iranian access to Syria, if extended to Al-Bukamal.
*
The movement of the SAA to the North to fight against Turkey and other militants might allow a "window" for an outright attack on Syria.

It would also be awkward for the Russians.

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 17 2022 19:47 utc | 94

On top of everything else about the WTC. Never forget that planes supposedly crashed into 2 buildings yet 3 buildings actually fell down...all owned by the same entity. Only Gandalf the grey could pull off such magic

Posted by: DaVinci | Jul 17 2022 19:49 utc | 95

@ 107 yenwoda - I will read what you posted when I have a few minutes.
I suggest you check out Flight MH17, Ukraine and the new Cold War: Prism of disaster by Kees van der Pijl

MH 17 book - Manchester University Press

Posted by: lex talionis | Jul 17 2022 19:53 utc | 96

This statement was made by the deputy general director of the National Energy Institute, economist Aleksandar Frolov.

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 19:30 utc | 112
---

Who is this economist Aleksandar Frolov and what is his connection to the Kremlin? Also what is this the National Energy Institute?

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 19:55 utc | 97

Posted by: Stonebird | Jul 17 2022 19:47 utc | 116

the point being: some explosives were heading for some friendly states to be used against the "axis of evil": Syria and/or Iran. The use of a Uki plane suggests the uki conflict is indeed metastasizing into the Middle East.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 17 2022 20:01 utc | 98

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 19:30 utc | 112
--------
Your economist Aleksandar Frolov is nobody and that "National Energy Institute" is just few web pages without a registered address, most probably sponsored by foreign agents.

Posted by: ostro | Jul 17 2022 20:05 utc | 99

Posted by: Milton | Jul 17 2022 13:47 utc | 9

Chile was liberated by the military from a bunch of Fidel Castro's fans.

Thanks Mr. Pinochet.

Posted by: Roberto | Jul 17 2022 20:06 utc | 100

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