https://hellas.postsen.com/news/50359/Greece-An-aircraft-crashed-near-Paleochori-Kavala.html

Posted by: ostro | Jul 16 2022 22:05 utc | 103

Posted by: ostro | Jul 16 2022 22:05 utc | 103
Yeah, I’m watching live connections on TV 😛

Posted by: Erlindur | Jul 16 2022 22:08 utc | 105

Posted by: Helmuth von Moltke | Jul 16 2022 19:55 utc | 80
Since it was about double doctorate it is only logic that you posted it twice: congratulations!

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 16 2022 22:26 utc | 107

“However….if you are a parent with young children you may have some reservations about bakers showing up at the school in their underwear to show the children the value of tolerance.”
Posted by: dh | Jul 16 2022 21:42 utc | 96
The value of tolerance, or of frugality, or of how to properly tie the bread bag.
I don’t know what sort of crap schools kids are cursed with down your neck of the woods; but when I had sexual education back at 12-13, it certainly involved nothing of the sort.
It was just like every other school subject except it dealt with contraceptives, genital anatomy and other sexual characteristics, pregnancies, sexual orientation, STDs, avoiding sexual aggression, hormones, and theoretical explanation of a few common sexual behaviors.
The Wikipedia article on “penis” is probably more titillating.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jul 16 2022 22:34 utc | 109

@109 “… when I had sexual education back at 12-13, it certainly involved nothing of the sort.”
You were lucky. I had to get my sexual education from Playboy Magazine. So I had to use my hand mostly until I discovered that girls like sex too.
But I understand there have been some amendments to the curriculum in (some) schools regarding sexual education and the best age to introduce it. It is now known as gender identity studies and I suspect the idea is to create a generation of healthy, tolerant, well-balance individuals with no sexual hang-ups.

Posted by: dh | Jul 16 2022 23:10 utc | 111

Recent thread (possibly not the only one) at PPRuNe “Antonov cargo crash, northern Greece”. Have a look if there are others since I haven’t checked or read anything yet (I’m looking for something else).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 16 2022 23:25 utc | 113

FlightAware has some flight history at their their MEM3032 page but it is obviously not complete (reformatted from small table, reversed chronological):

”
Date: Saturday 16-Jul-2022
Departure: First seen at 08:37PM CEST near Niš, Serbia
Arrival: Last seen at 10:47PM EEST near Kavala, Greece
Aircraft: –
Duration: 1h 10m
Date: Saturday 09-Jul-2022
Departure: First seen at 09:32AM CEST near Tanger, Morocco
Arrival: 12:42PM BST Birmingham Int’l – BHX
Aircraft: –
Duration: 4h 10m
“

I was kind of trying to find any cargo list/manifest/details.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 16 2022 23:37 utc | 115

23 Citations!!!
Finally, someone did their homework, and found my source, or at least one very close to it.
Then one, finally considered the impact of such a declaration, and why the Government of the Russian Federation might take offence to it.
Then another finally, looked up the source of my Surname, and found that I am a Rusyn from the Carpathian Mountains of Slovakia.
So, all and sundry had a field day….
Good!
Now, it’s amazing that you didn’t find time to do a google search on my name…
Brings up 100,000s of thousands of citations…
So, when are you all going to ask yourselves why the US embassy hurredly moved back to Lvov????
Why they are so insistent all US Citizens leave before a certain date???
How this fits with the pronouncement of the Prime Minster of Serbia…??
THINK????
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jul 17 2022 0:10 utc | 117

Dr. George is really out there. Designating Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism would be a massive escalation but ineffectual. The lawsuits couldn’t collect any damages awarded and Russia’s already doing business without using dollars, which is how that stuff really works. It would cause pain but would be counter productive to the US in the medium term (maybe short term too).
As for the Russian reaction, that’s some journalist giving an opinion which means it’s what the journalist wants to happen. Not a single piece of Russian behavior suggests that would be the reaction. And it lacks the class and decorum the Russian government operates with. The retaliation would be more subtle. Like maybe sponsoring some problematic situations for the US.

Posted by: Lex | Jul 17 2022 2:09 utc | 119

Maybe not all weapon deals were interrupted with the missile attack. Maybe nazis or nato did sell some weapons to other countries and they were transporting them using Ukr airplanes. Or some idiotic nato fake story, like they usually are. We’ll see soon.

Posted by: rk | Jul 17 2022 5:01 utc | 121

Regarding Vinnitsia:
Russia may have had intel that NATO/Ukraine were planning a missile attack on Crimea. If true, that would fit in nicely with the U.S. issuing an alert for Americans to leave Ukraine immediately on the 14th (prior to such an attack). Ukraine also needs some kind of ‘win’ to cheer about since things are otherwise going rather badly for them. There has to be plenty of ammo dumps and other valuable targets for them. This would arguably have *some* (not much, probably) effect on a Russian campaign through Kherson and Mykolaiv to take Odessa. However, Ukraine striking Crimea would constitute an attack on Russian soil – resulting in Russia declaring war on Ukraine. Russia isn’t ready to declare war on Ukraine *right now* for a number of reasons, but an attack on Crimea would automatically trigger that declaration regardless, per Putin’s previous warnings.
Gonzalo Lira streamed this video earlier today: Roundtable #1: Johnson, Martyanov, Mercouris in which they proposed that Russia was going to offer terms to Ukraine after they had liberated and secured Donbas. It is almost a given that NATO/Ukraine will reject the terms and that would give Russia justification for moving west across more of Ukraine. Odessa will be on the chopping block soon.
Vinnytsia may have been a Russian warning to US/NATO. On Gonzalo’s Roundtable, the guests were talking of casualties at the Officers’ building *in the hundreds*, but nobody knew for sure. The building is pretty much gutted and the back walls completely blown out. If there were any kind of meeting between NATO and Polish officials regarding aircraft (F-16) transfers, then they are surely dead. Nobody in that building survived.
I note that the Ukrainians quickly claimed that they knew about the strike beforehand and/or the building was empty at the time. I doubt that. By the looks of the building debris, it’s going to take them a week to find the boots of whomever was in there. In any case, the message to the US and NATO is that their ‘important’ people in Ukraine will be targeted with impunity by Russia. Maybe as a warning not to do anything stupid in Crimea? Up until now, US/NATO casualties were probably just some unfortunate enlisted SF advisors/trainers mixed up with Ukraine troops. Officers and government suits coming back in boxes are a little harder to explain.
Re: F-16s – Not sure if anyone seen this in the regular news, but from the cringeworthy Air Force Magazine, the U.S. just passed our 2023 Defense funding bill. The article noted this amendment:

“…Among the amendments approved as part of the deliberation process was a provision from Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) to authorize $100 million to provide training to Ukrainian pilots and ground crews to become familiarized with American aircraft. Ukrainian pilots and defense officials have pleaded for the U.S. to provide them with aircraft such as the F-16, and while thus far the Biden administration has rejected those calls, Kinzinger’s amendment was agreed to in an uncontroversial voice vote…”

But, you might ask why would we train Ukrainian pilots and ground crew in aircraft “such as the F-16” when they have no such toys. Well, that’s where our lapdog Poland comes in. They happen to have 40 fairly well-maintained F-16s and perhaps some kind of donation to Ukraine might be arranged? Not so much now, but you can see the rationale for high-ranking US/NATO and Polish AF officers to be talking ‘arms’ with the Ukraine AF in Vinnytsia. This is all just speculation on my part, but you can see how all this fits in. Poland also bought a dozen or so F-35s, so I’m sure the US has plenty of leverage to ‘encourage’ Poland’s donation. And any donated Polish F-16s will quickly be replaced by the US – because we’re nice like that.
An aside for Vinnytsia: there’s a video on Twitter (sorry!) showing a lot of Ukraine soldiers running around the square in front of the Hall of Officers right after the strike picking up metal debris. Not helping bleeding civilians or looking for the boots of their air force guys, but scrounging around collecting stuff. The implication here is that the Russian missiles did strike their target as intended, but the Ukrainian S-300s didn’t. They were spoofed or jammed and ended up overshooting the hall, landing 1) in the square and 2) in front of the apartment building across the square. I can’t think of any other rational explanation for the scrap-collector army show up so soon after the strike, unless it was to pick up incriminating S-300 debris. I have to say, I think there’s some credibility to this. Russian Kalibers or Tochkas leave a huge crater. Whatever landed in the square and next to the apartment *wasn’t* a Russian cruise or ballistic missile.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 17 2022 5:25 utc | 123

Scrap collector army Tweet: https://twitter.com/r_u_vid/status/1548433096919302145

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 17 2022 5:29 utc | 125

Dilyana reported on Serbia trafficking weapons to Ukraine in 2019:
11/21/2019, “Serbian arms trafficked to Ukraine: evidence of contraband mortars used against Donbass,” armswatch, Dilyana Gaytandzhieva –
https://armswatch.com/serbian-arms-trafficked-to-ukraine-evidence-of-contraband-mortars-used-against-donbass/
“New evidence has emerged of Ukraine’s Army using contraband Serbian weapons in the war in Donbass. Serbia officially has not exported weapons to Ukraine since the beginning of the armed conflict between Ukraine and the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR). However, Serbian weapons manufactured in 2016 appear to be used by Ukraine’s Army in the war in Donbass.
This 60 mm Serbian mortar shell M73 HE KV lot 02/16 was found by DNR soldiers in Donbass, according to photos published by the DNR Ministry of Defense on 9 November 2019. The mortar shell was fired by the Ukrainian Army but did not explode.
This is not the first documented case of alleged Serbian mortar shells being fired by the Ukrainian Army….
The company involved which purchased the Serbian weapons, Petralink, with a registration in Cyprus, is owned by the son of the former director of the Ukrainian intelligence gen. Vladimir Petenko, who was convicted of arms trafficking, according to documents published by Marinka Tepic, member of the Serbian Parliament. On papers, Petralink exported the weapons to the Polish company Natan (30,000 pcs. of 60 mm mortar shells) in 2016 and according to the end user certificate it would not re-export the weapons to a third party without the written consent of the Serbian government. However, the weapons were re-diverted to Ukraine, not to Poland.”…

Posted by: susan mullen | Jul 17 2022 5:54 utc | 127

@ostro | Jul 16 2022 22:01 utc | 102

If it is an Antonov, then it is an Ukrainian aircraft, mostly cargo.

Immediate baseless speculation: Transfer of illegal weapons from Ukraine?

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 17 2022 6:19 utc | 129

There aren’t pilots left in Ukr to learn F16. What’s left continues to die, at least 2-3 each week.
No one can send even one F16 to Ukr, it would be shot down and it’s a crap plane anyway. As Putin warned everyone months ago, any country that will take part (like using airports in Romania or Poland to attack Russian troops in Ukr) will be hit, nato or not nato.
There is nothing nato can do except terrorism with the help of Ukr puppet government, mercenaries and nazis they sponsor. That is why I keep asking why they’re not eliminated. They only increase the danger that Obomber or Vicky drinks too much one day and orders zelli to explode an npp.

Posted by: rk | Jul 17 2022 6:44 utc | 131

As I see, nobody knows Serbian media, https://srbin.info/en/
This media is closest to Russian outside Russia.
What is important, that media publishes in incredible footage Telegram sources ( which I can not open, because I live in EU )
This media is opposition to government, spitting on president Vučić…
Week ago they published photo of Ukrainian plane loading millitatry equipment in Belgrade airport, which supposed to be hidden.
Editor had to go to “brainwash”…
So, if you want to be up-to date, that is a must. As you see, it is in english. And any language you choose. There is a button…

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 6:48 utc | 133

To go back to the main topic, have you ever heard about Jonathan Littell ? He’s a French-American writer mostly known for one book, The Kindly Ones, depicting nazi atrocities on the way to the Eastern Front, in the eyes of a nazi officer. A large part of the book takes place in Ukraine. It’s very widely documented but cannot be considered as historical work. Funny though because it’s in a way linked with the LGBT topic : this nazi officer is gay with French origins (which makes this character historically incongruous). Anyway, today Littell is very active in French MSM, notably in the newspaper Le Monde, where he regularly writes anti-Poutine and pro-Ukrogov articles. He seems to be currently in Ukraine documenting the war. I had forgotten about him, but he just published another one. In April, I wrote an article about him for the French site Le Grand Soir because I couldn’t help pointing the contradictions between his deep knowledge of Ukrainian history, of its collaboration with nazis and his actual positions which are basically in support of neonazi military activities in Ukraine… Here it is :

Little Jonathan got lost in the history section of the great western library.

Could history, which sometimes offers us such oddities, be nothing more than a vast dressing room in which the human soul, like an old sock with a hole in it, lies at the bottom of a wardrobe? Is it a turncoat or a full striptease? A bit of both, I suppose… Jonathan Littell, by becoming the ghost writer of Le Monde (libre?), joins Bernard Henri-Lévy among the vultures that are going to feast on the Ukrainian carcass.

How winding the road he has travelled since 2006…

That year he published a 900-page book with an antinomic title: The Kindly Ones. I had borrowed this book from the library of the Alliance française in Shanghai. I remember diving head first into this account of the Nazi psyche and the spiral of macabre violence into which a German officer of the Einsatzgruppen plunges along the roads leading to the Eastern Front.

It is a cold, clinical account of the atrocities committed by the completely dehumanised militia of the Third Reich, massacring Jews, Gypsies and anyone else who got in their way or displeased them.

I will not dwell on this book, which I recommend but which can in no way be considered as a historical touchstone, although the author has undeniably carried out massive research in this direction. It is simply one of those works that give an idea of what the ‘average’ human is capable of doing when placed in a certain context.

Although the book is set in a historical background, the central characters are imaginary. And although I have not found any reference to this, one can assume that Littell was inspired by the Das Reich division, which belonged to the Waffen-SS and was certainly the most ferocious, the most brutal that acted on the Eastern Front. Indeed, there are similarities, apart from the barbarity of the acts committed, in the fact that in The Kindly Ones, the hero has links with Alsace through his stepfather and the time he spent there as a child, and that among the members of the Das Reich division, made up of Volksdeutsche, there were Mosellans and Alsatians. Moreover, the hero leaves the Eastern Front for a while to come and rest in France, as did the Das Reich division, which was badly hit by fighting against the Soviets, and where it later raged in the South-West, at Oradour-sur-Glane, among other disastrous crimes, to mention only the most famous.

This infamous Das Reich division has recently made a comeback, since it serves as a model, not to say a cannon, for the no less infamous Ukrainian Azov Battalion, which goes so far as to take up its emblem, the Wolfsangel, and shares with their illustrious predecessors a deep hatred of the Russians. This battalion, an ostensibly neo-Nazi far-right militia composed of Ukrainian and foreign mercenary volunteers, integrated into the government forces since 2014, is responsible for the bombardments on the Donbass that killed thousands of Russian-speaking Ukrainians, but also for the massacre of 46 pro-Russian Ukrainians on 2 May 2014 in Odessa… all this in the complete indifference of the international community… and of Jonathan Littell. The modus operandi of the Odessa massacre is reminiscent of those of the Einsatzgruppen during mass killings that Littell relates, notably in one of the most striking scenes of The Kindly Ones.

Yes, the road Jonathan Littell has travelled since 2006 is tortuous. And that his destination is, to say the least, confusing.

In the space of a few days, the Franco-American author has just published two articles in the daily Le Monde. The first, entitled “As long as Putin remains in power, nobody will be safe. None of us” and especially the second, “My dear Russian friends, it’s time for your Maidan” did not fail to surprise me, if I may use this understatement. Let’s be clear, if he had been content to condemn the Russian intervention, I would have left it at that. In the concert, or rather, the media cacophony, that would have been an act of extreme moderation. But no, the man who, in order to write his work, which earned him the Goncourt prize and the prize of the French Academy, did the work of a historian in the depths of Nazi crimes in Eastern Europe, is now calling on the Russian people to reproduce what was the birth certificate of the Azov battalion, namely the Ukrainian Maidan, in order to get rid of Vladimir Putin.

Some will see this as a train wreck. For me, Littell reminds me of an old sock with a hole in it. Everyone knows what you do with old socks with holes in them. At best, they can still be used to polish boots.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 17 2022 7:17 utc | 135

Can we get RSH back and ditch Mr. Emoticon?

Posted by: Arthurdent | Jul 17 2022 7:45 utc | 137

G-20 meeting ends without final communique

Posted by: too scents | Jul 17 2022 8:22 utc | 139

@C | Jul 17 2022 8:30 utc | 140
US can only send crap they no longer want, more money to MIC for new ones, or try to test weapons. In that process they may kill some Russians too, which is what they want, so there is absolutely no reason to stop sending weapons and no danger for US. If anything bad happens it will be in a Baltic state, Poland, Romania or other local puppet. Remember it wasnt Obomber/Vicky the first ones to send weapons in Ukr, it was the other retard, the Orange Man. the US policy won’t change a bit after elections but there may not be any Ukr left to send weapons to.

Posted by: rk | Jul 17 2022 9:06 utc | 141

Posted by: Spinworthy | Jul 16 2022 22:48 utc | 110

“Not keeping with the dominant western ‘liberal‘ narrative really seems to be her true offense. Reflexive shaming is a given under such ‘rules‘.”

Congratulations SpinWorthy, you really hit the spot!

Posted by: LongCovid | Jul 17 2022 10:04 utc | 143

It is very cheap to use “crash dummies”, called Ukrainian army, to test your equipment.
After analysis will be made.
When Israel tried to sell Iron Dome, some people got hardache….
After it was found out, it is good only for Palestinian home made rockets…
Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 9:12 utc | 142

Israel don’t want to take side like the rest of middle east so they refused. Probably alsou they would not want it being send to their adversaries as ukr weapons often are smugled there. They sold drones to (Turkeys backed) Azerbaijan, it is their main arms export customer.

Posted by: Alef | Jul 17 2022 11:00 utc | 145

I hope you are following news.
Biden threatened Porošenko with dead, if he supports Trump politics, when Trump won elections 2016.
Sewage pit is open…
It will smell for decades to come…
Tape is published…

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 17 2022 11:16 utc | 147

Posted by: Arthurdent | Jul 17 2022 7:45 utc | 137
“Can we get RSH back and ditch Mr. Emoticon?”
Good luck with that. Everybody wanted him, you got him.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 17 2022 11:25 utc | 149

Good luck with that. Everybody wanted him, you got him.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jul 17 2022 11:25 utc | 149
Aw c’mon Richard. Stop with the poor me already. You’ve gotten a lot of love here
and Mr. Emoticon has had a lot of criticism. That you are missed is a fact.
Please remember that old saying ‘Don’t let the ostros grind you down’.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jul 17 2022 12:17 utc | 151

IMHO it’s when people start to insult each other, that things start going down hill. That always dismays me.

Posted by: Featherless | Jul 17 2022 13:22 utc | 153

Medvedev commented on Ukraine’s threats to attack Crimea: “If something like this happens, judgment day will come for them.”
Well… that is a stupid comment. He thinks Vicky and Obomber sent the weapons for a museum in Ukr?
Denazification only from the soldier level isn’t a good plan, it has to be started at the top, the government and generals. Every nato puppet in Ukr has to know he/she/it will be dead or in prison. Right now they feel no danger, it’s just fun to kill their own people or Russians. The same thing happens for Lithuania. There is zero fear, zero danger of anything. Let’s cut the gas to Kaliningrad just for fun.

Posted by: rk | Jul 17 2022 14:11 utc | 155

I posted this in the Iran piece but it really belongs here:

Assessment by the Polish intelligence services of the situation in Ukraine
Tuesday, 19 July 2022 — Intel Slava Z https://t.me/intelslava/33491
🇵🇱🇺🇦 The Intelligence Agency (AW) of the Republic of Poland has prepared a report analyzing the current situation in Ukraine. According to the document, a catastrophic situation has developed in the formations of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
The number of irretrievable losses is more than 300 people per day, and this figure is underestimated by the office of the President to reduce the likelihood of a public outburst and create panic among civilians and the military. The Psheks emphasize that the systematic strikes of the Russian Armed Forces on command posts and training centers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have led to the death of about 4,600 of the most trained military personnel over the past three months, including senior officers, instructors and mercenaries.
The report notes that unprepared formations are sent to the Donbass, the professional level of officers from the battalion commander and below is weak, the functions of commanders in the troops are often performed by fighters of the national battalions. Since May of this year, almost all control functions in the planning and conduct of hostilities have been taken over by foreign advisers from the United States, Great Britain and Canada. At the same time, the fact of their presence at command posts is kept secret in order to prevent the entry of NATO military personnel into the captivity of the Russian Armed Forces.
It is emphasized that Zelensky’s office has set the task of keeping the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk-Toretsk line at any cost until the end of August this year.
It is indicated that at present, accelerated training of Ukrainian military personnel is being carried out in the west of the republic and on the territory of Great Britain and Germany. By the end of August – beginning of September, it is planned to create an additional grouping of 30 thousand people, the basis of which will be four new brigades.
It is noteworthy that the Polish special services are skeptical about Kyiv’s statements about the preparation of these four formations in Ukraine. Warsaw does not rule out that the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is misleading the allies in order to obtain new weapons.
According to AW, the leadership of Ukraine also counts on the introduction of two Polish brigades into the western regions of the country – 6 air brigade and 25 air brigade, which, according to the Ukrainian General Staff, will release additional combat-ready units and formations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in August to be sent to the eastern front.
At the same time, the report notes that the American 155-mm M-777 howitzers delivered to Kyiv are not always used for their intended purpose. Instead of conducting counter-battery combat, guns are often used to bombard cities. At the same time, military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, after accelerated training, are unable to independently maintain complex weapons and military equipment systems, therefore foreign instructors from among mercenaries are often in artillery positions.

Posted by: Barofsky | Jul 20 2022 15:10 utc | 157

🇭🇺🇷🇺🇺🇦 Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban believes that Ukraine will never win the war — Reuters
The agency quotes Orban as saying why Kyiv is not able to win a military confrontation with Russia: “Simply because the Russian army has an asymmetric superiority.”
The Hungarian leader also said that there is no chance for peace talks between Russia and Ukraine.
“Because Russia wants security guarantees, this war can only be ended by peace talks between Russia and America.”
“>https://t.me/intelslava/33769

Posted by: Barofsky | Jul 23 2022 15:09 utc | 159