Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 15, 2022

NYT Continues To Report 'Strikes On Civilians' That Somehow Happen To Hit Military Targets

Just last week the New York Times reported of a Russian strike 'on civilians' in Chasiv Yar even as its own reporter at the location acknowledged in a detailed separate report that the apartment complex that was hit was mostly housing military forces.

Yesterday a Russian missile strike hit the town of Vinnytsia in western Ukraine.

The New York Times is again lamenting about a damage to civilian buildings even as the main target was obviously a military one.

Strikes on Civilians Deep in Ukraine Show Russia’s Lethal Reach

VINNYTSIA, Ukraine — A volley of missiles hit a shopping center, a dance studio and a wedding hall in central Ukraine on Thursday, killing at least 23 people and setting off a frantic search for dozens more missing in the rubble, in the latest strike to hit civilian targets far from the front line.

Seventy-one people, including three children, were hospitalized after three missiles hit the center of Vinnytsia, a typically sleepy provincial capital, leaving behind a harrowing scene of smoking ruins.

The attack used cruise missiles fired by a Russian submarine in the Black Sea, President Volodymyr Zelensky’s office said. It said three children were among those killed in the strike on Vinnytsia, about 240 miles inland from the coast.

“Every day, Russia destroys the civilian population, kills Ukrainian children, directs rockets at civilian objects,” Mr. Zelensky said. “What is this, if not an open act of terrorism?”

The Times leads its write up with this picture.


bigger

There is a distinctive monument in the picture of a fighter jet flying through some ring and a neoclassic building behind it.

Here is a satellite picture of the area.


bigger

The photographer who took the NYT picture was standing near the top left of the satellite picture and took the photograph towards the mid bottom of the satellite picture. The fighter jet installations that was photographed is marked by Google as 'Monument in Honor of the Air Force of Ukraine'. The neoclassic building is the U-shaped one on the left marked as the 'House of Officer's'.

The NYT even mentions the 'House of Officers' but only describes it as a 'potential target' and only in the sixth paragraph:

The missiles hit a military officers’ club, a potential target, though one in a densely built-up central neighborhood of the city.

However video taken shortly after the strike shows that The 'House of Officers' was completely destroyed and thereby obviously the main target of the attack.


bigger

The video the above picture is clipped from was taken from a car driving on the bottom left road visible in the satellite picture towards the center of it.

While the House of Officers external walls are still standing the roof is gone and one can see through the building.

Here is another picture of it.


bigger

A civilian high rise building that the NYT also pictured is visible on the top of the satellite image labeled 'Kredo Bank'.


bigger

The building shows no damage from a direct hit by a missile. It had its windows blown out by the shockwave of the explosion at the nearby House of Officers and it is blackened from a fire that had been burning in its lower left part. Here is a video with an overview of the plaza showing the damaged House of Officers and the fire with very dark smoke at the high rise north of it. Here is another one showing the fire. It was reported that 50 cars on a parking lot had also burned there. The shopping center, a dance studio and wedding hall that the NYT laments in its opening paragraph were likely all in the 1st floor of the high rise building. They were not targeted.

Air defense weapons were also fired. They might have caused additional damage:

Ukraine's national police said three missiles hit an office building and damaged nearby residential buildings in Vinnytsia, which is about 167 miles southwest of the capital, Kyiv.

The missile strike ignited a fire that expanded to engulf 50 cars in an adjacent parking lot. The governor of the Vinnytsia region, Serhiy Borzov, said Ukrainian air defense systems shot down another four missiles over the area.

The 'office building' that the Ukraine's national police claims was hit was in fact the 'House of Officers' owned by the Ukrainian military.

There were also an unusual number of people in military clothing helping with the casualties.


bigger

The Times continues to play a shell game when it claims hits 'on civilians' even as the targets are clearly military ones:

The strike came amid other recent attacks on populated civilian areas.
...
And in the eastern village of Chasiv Yar, in Donetsk, the State Emergency Service said the death toll from a strike on an apartment complex over the weekend had risen to 48, making it one of the deadliest attacks since the war began.

More deadly attacks are happening every day at the front line where Russia artillery takes out any larger grouping of Ukraine's military.

As for the dead in Chasiv Yar here is again what the Times Carlotta Gall reported from that location:

[A resident of Chasiv Yar village, Oleksandr, 31,] said that about 10 civilians, mostly women on pensions, were living in the building at the time of the strike, but that members of the military had come to lodge there two days earlier.

A Russian strike hit the apartment building. Only 10 civilians were living there, but at least 48 people have died in the strike. 38 of the dead must thus have been 'members of the military' who were lodging there. That they did so made the apartment complex a legitimate military target.

Now let's see what the Russian military claims to have hit in Vinnytsia:

On July 13, Kalibr high-precision sea-based missiles were launched at the House of Officers of the garrison in Vinnitsa.

The facility hosted a conference of the Ukrainian Armed Force command with representatives of foreign armament suppliers aimed at discussing the issues on sending another batch of aircraft, destruction means, as well as on organising the reparation of Ukrainian aircraft.

The attack has resulted in the elimination of the conference participants.

On July 14, shortly after news of the strike in Vinnytsia had come out, the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine issued a new Security Alert – Missile Threat Awareness for U.S. citizens:

Avoid large gatherings and organized events as they may serve as Russian military targets anywhere in Ukraine, including its western regions.

Well, what gave them the idea to say that?

Posted by b on July 15, 2022 at 14:12 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Posted by: preseren3 | Jul 16 2022 9:03 utc | 277

You get it they are paid Not to negotiate and prolong the war, dont you?

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 16 2022 11:36 utc | 301

Posted by: Orgel | Jul 15 2022 23:10 utc | 207

Thank you for that very real story with poignant first hand account of the huge harm perpetrated by so-called experts, especially those who say they are 'following the science.'

And still people keep obeying them!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 16 2022 11:36 utc | 302

@Sushi | Jul 15 2022 22:45 utc | 201

I still recall this excellent piece from 2014 by JP Sottile.

https://consortiumnews.com/2014/03/16/corporate-interests-behind-ukraine-putsch/

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Jul 15 2022 22:57 utc | 204

Excellent information, thank you both, Sottile‘s article is essential reading.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 16 2022 11:37 utc | 303

Wiki says that the headquarters of the Ukrainian air force is in Vinnitsa as well, and that's certainly a legitimate military target, according to the present laws & usages of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force

Posted by: rkka | Jul 16 2022 11:40 utc | 304

@Browser | Jul 16 2022 7:07 utc | 267
"Thank you for your report from Portugal. I always wonder what do Portuguese think of Brazil? The Brazil government seems not to buy the propaganda, nor does the opposition.

Surely a government of 200 million fraternal people taking a different decision, ought to sow some doubts in the MSM view."

Portuguese MSM just can't handle Bolsonaro nor Lula right now. One because he's a fascist and recently talked against sanctions, the other because he tried to explain the Europeans that USA/NATO were to blame for the provocation of this proxy ear in Ukraine.

The people are by far leaning towards Lula. We have a terrible opinion about Bolsonaro supporters since day one of his campaign for Presidency.

But as a typical Western MSM, the Portugurse MSM is very self centered in the West and Atlanticist. A hurricane might kill people in Americas and that doesn't even show up on the news, but if there's a bit more rain in USA that's immediately big news.
It's ridiculous.

There was close to zero coverage of Bolivian coup and of that one year of popular uprising that recovered Democracy.
There's ZERO coverage of current Turkey invasion/war on Kusdistan, but Ukraine's conflict is portrayed as the only one.
Actually, some idiots even go as far as criticizing those thay talk about the other wars/conflicst currently taking place.
I'm ashamed of this MSM and this "elite".

I know a bit more (than the average portuguese) because I follow non-Western and non-mainstream media. Ex: TeleSur, even though it's very Left leaning, has a "Latitud Brazil" where even pro-Lula comentators explained Bolsonaro's position (pro-BRICS, so of course good relations with Russia) is the right move for Brazil, because Russia is Brazil's ally in the fight for sovereignty of the Non-Western world.

@Lbanu | Jul 16 2022 5:44 utc | 262
"What exactly have Finland and Sweden have to do with the Kurdish situation?

What Kurdish situation and where?"

Finland and Sweden basically just traded their NATO membership by the violation of Kurds' human rights. From now on, Finland and Sweden are effectively supporting the current military operation of Turkey against Syrian Kurds, in invaded territory of Syria, in the are that Kurd YPG/SDF liberated from ISIS.

A Kurd member of Swedish parliament event went as far as saying she is now ashamed of Sweden, the country she thought was also her home. Bit now is just another prison for Kurds that oppose Erdogan...

And all this was justified by the war in Ukraine. As if Turkey (NATO) invading Northern Syria and killing Kurds would solve the Ukrainian proxy war and improve defense/security in the Nordic countries.

This is all ridiculous, and my respect for Sweden/Finland droped to zero. They should have NEVER obeyed to Erdogan, Turkey's dictator (since many of the oppositors are in prison, and an ethnic minority is being attacked).

And this is already a NATO padron: Ukraine was also motivated to purge ethnical minorities (Donbass people, russian speakers, ethnic russians, roma, etc) in order to fulfill RAND' plan to over-expand Russia, in exchange for the NATO membership.

A membership that we now know was just bait. USA just wanted the proxy war to start. They never for a single second thought about Ukraine's security.

We've seen this in Syria too. USA used the Kurds, and even Al-Qaeda, just to try to overthrow Assad, by dividing the country in two entities, one with cereals and oil, and the other part (under Assad control) suffering with sanctions.
Then, when Kurds served their purpose, USA (and now also Sweden and Finland) stepped aside and let Turkey invade and kill Kurds.

It's the Donbass conflict all over again. You see the padron? USA+Europe never tried to seriously solve that civil war. They celebrated +14 thousand dead people in Donbass just to provoke Russia as much as possible.
And now that Ukraibe lost, and keeps losing every day (territory and people), USA/NATO are already preparing to abandon them.

And it will be like Afghanistan: get out of one war to get on the next a few months later.
So by the time USA/NATO abandons Ukraine for good, it will be a matter of months until the next escalation in Middle East, "color revolution" in an SCO or EAEU country, or even the start of the Taiwan proxy war.

Because the MIC's oligarchy needs a steady flow of profits. As Assange well explained about Afghanistan. Ukraine is in fact the continuation of that strategy, but now in even better conditions: zero USA boots on the ground.

And this is why Russia has to win in Ukraine. There's a lot at stake. And USA, historically, only slows down a bit in its aggression, after military defeats.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Jul 16 2022 11:48 utc | 305

Posted by: ostro | Jul 15 2022 21:38 utc | 186

Not only this but German U-boot were fueled-in by SO tanker at sea in vicinity of the Azores all along WWII.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 16 2022 11:48 utc | 306

too scents | Jul 16 2022 11:34 utc | 302

I hadn't known about them until you posted the link. Interesting.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 16 2022 12:00 utc | 307

Posted by: ostro | Jul 15 2022 21:38 utc | 186

The money from the plunder of Europe was flowing freely towards America from 1940 to 1945. Using easy channels as Switzerland, Portugal, Spain and the Vatican Banks.
Invested in US MIC it funded bombing of German industries. A complete profit loop.
After the war the hugely groin money went back to Europe in order fuel up the German miracle. Dismantled nazi cartels revived and kicked back thank to nazi wise US savings.
One of the best exemple is the notorious IG Farben, which gave birth to offspring companies: Bayer, Hoechst and BASF.
Notice that Moderna is its most recent blossom.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 16 2022 12:00 utc | 308

Simply put, doesn't Draghi want to get off the sinking ship? It is sinking because, on top of the hardship caused by the new sanctions against Russia, it already had a ready-to-explode debt problem which can be avoided no longer? In other words, not a matter of IF but WHEN. And when it sinks, the EU will sink (as everybody has known for a long, long time).

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jul 16 2022 12:01 utc | 309

'Grown' not 'groin'
:(

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jul 16 2022 12:03 utc | 310

In the heated partisan atmosphere of war it is easy to forget how faithfully our ukrainian allies defend our values:
...
Posted by: bevin | Jul 15 2022 23:47 utc | 214

I’m sure Borrell and VdL will be along to frame the matter appropriately, perhaps by railing, without irony, against the scourge of filthy collaborators and fifth columnists, working tirelessly to sabotage our wholesome solidarity, on behalf of their alien paymasters.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 16 2022 12:19 utc | 311

Bruised Northerner@243
Did you see this Yves Engler article? There is not a single socialist Member of Parliament. The NDP is leading the charge against Russia and for fascism in Ukraine.

"NDP Foreign Affairs Critic Heather McPherson’s promotion of NATO and opposition to diplomacy is indirectly prolonging the horrors in Ukraine.

"On Monday McPherson attacked the Liberals for acceding to Germany’s request to allow Siemens to return turbines used in Russia’s Nord Stream 1 pipeline from the company’s Canadian facilities in Montréal where they had been sent for maintenance and repairs.

“It is shocking and disappointing that the Liberal government has decided to allow the Nord Stream 1 turbines to be sent to Germany and returned to Russia,” declared McPherson. “This decision goes against the sanctions Canada imposed on Russia in response to the illegal invasion and genocide in Ukraine.”

"McPherson’s position is more belligerent than Washington’s. In fact, the US State Department released a statement supporting Canada’s decision to return the turbines to Germany.

"At the start of last month, McPherson publicly supported expanding the nuclear-armed NATO alliance. During a parliamentary debate she stated, “I want to begin my remarks tonight by stating unequivocally that the New Democratic Party supports Sweden and Finland in their bid for membership in NATO, and that New Democrats call on all NATO members to approve the application as quickly as possible to address the urgent situation that is facing both countries, including the very real threats made against both Sweden and Finland by the Russian Federation.”

"McPherson supports enlarging NATO in response to a war that was partly caused by the alliance’s expansion...."

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/peace-minded-canadians-deserve-a-voice-in-parliament

Posted by: bevin | Jul 16 2022 12:31 utc | 312

Posted by: John Kennard | Jul 16 2022 2:39 utc | 249

That may be so, but Nagasaki was definitely not a military target in any way , it was simply a target of opportunity, although they did try and justify this bomb as well. The actual city nominated for bombing was having poor weather , so rather than come back with an undropped atomic bomb, and the lack of already undamaged cities , they bombed Nagasaki.

Fun facts; Nagasaki and Hiroshima , the only two cities destroyed by atomic bombs in Japan by the USA were also traditionally the most progressive towns that had most relations with Westerners and even had… native Christians from over 400 years ago. Under other circumstances , the nationalist Japanese would have rejoiced at these two towns being destroyed , just as Ataturk Kemal and his jihadi Turks did upon the burning of Smyrna in 1922.That is how clever the US was.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Jul 16 2022 12:31 utc | 313

More on the Vinnitsa cruise missile attack

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/23396

The blow to the house of officers in Vinnitsa was delivered at the moment of the meeting of buyers and sellers of Western weapons.

❗️Information appeared that the seller was 3 employees of MI6 and one employee of the French military intelligence, and the buyers were from Yemen, Lebanon, Palestine and Bahrain.

The host country was represented by intelligence officers of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, close to the head of the department, Kirill Budanov.

Buyers entered through the Chisinau airport from Bucharest and Warsaw, then by land road transport with the support of the official Moldovan authorities to the border.

❗️At the time of the missile strike, 36 people were negotiating, 23 of whom died immediately, the rest are in critical condition and, most likely, will not live.

2 out of 3 cruise missiles hit right on target, one was partially destroyed at extremely low altitude by Ukrainian air defense, after which it fell on the city center in five parts, including killing civilians. This is certainly very sad. However, the decision to shoot down missiles on approach to the target was made by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, accurately understanding the prospects for such a decision. The satellite constellation of the United States and Great Britain captures the contrail from the anti-missiles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and has accurate data of objective control.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 12:36 utc | 314


https://t.me/ZandVchannel/23402

The American embassy in Kyiv stopped its work.
The embassy building is closed, employees are not visible, eyewitnesses report.

Recently, the United States appealed to its citizens with an appeal to leave Ukraine.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 12:41 utc | 315

bevin @ 314

I used to follow many of those sources but no longer do so… for reasons summarized in this Tweet. Rage Against the Machine (whom I love) sponsored by the machine… Singh is clearly socialist. He got us pharmacare (or will eventually get us pharmacare). That’s a big deal.

https://twitter.com/king_of_thougts/status/1548127807288406016

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 16 2022 12:42 utc | 316

"meat is too logistically intensive and requires refrigeration"

Right, and your tofu doesn't require cooling and moves into supermarkets on its own.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 15 2022 18:56 utc | 110

---

It's even better than that! Canned* meat does not require refrigeration

*Mason jars full of meat & spice cooked/sealed in a pressure cooker

I've done it for a while now with venison (I have a deer buffet in my backyard) If done properly, it keeps for years, tastes great (like beef) & no botulism

Also my apologies too - way OT... but relevant to the impending calamity that the Ukr/RF situation is part of IMHO

Posted by: ianMoone | Jul 16 2022 12:45 utc | 317

The last is not said about Sweden/Finlands entry into NATO:

https://t.me/azmilitary11/10791

Swedish Supreme Court suspends extradition of FETO member to Turkey

Turkey has requested the extradition of a 48-year-old man who allegedly headed one of the Gulen educational institutions in Afghanistan. In 2018, as a political refugee, he received a permanent residence permit in Sweden.

The Turkish side accuses him of leading an armed terrorist organization: this is indicated by the use of the Bylock mobile application distributed among Gulenists, as well as the presence of a bank account associated with FETO in the suspect.

The Swedish Supreme Court found these arguments insufficient. Another reason for the suspension of extradition was the risk of persecution of the suspect after his return to his homeland. In other words, the Swedish authorities intend to continue to follow national and pan-European legislation.

Turkish officials have not yet commented on this news, but it is not difficult to guess their reaction. Recep Tayyip Erdogan has repeatedly stated that failure to comply with the terms of the memorandum by Sweden or Finland will mean further blocking the entry of these countries into NATO.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 12:53 utc | 318

Posted by: ianMoone | Jul 16 2022 12:45 utc | 319

Yes, many if not most foods can be preserved by a number of methods involving adding preservatives (salt, alcohol, vinegar), drying, heating, fermenting and packaging. Furthermore, lots of people knew how to do those things back in the day. Modern people are incompetent at all of that since they are mere "consumers" now.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 16 2022 12:59 utc | 319

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 16 2022 10:35 utc | 296

https://www.ncdcr.gov/blog/2016/01/18/oil-transport-torpedoed-german-u-boat-1942

I'm a WW II sub campaign geek, Standard Oil tankers got sunk by U-Boats.

Posted by: mtw | Jul 16 2022 13:05 utc | 320

@318

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/23402

Die amerikanische Botschaft in Kiew stellte ihre Arbeit ein.
Das Botschaftsgebäude ist geschlossen, Mitarbeiter sind nicht zu sehen, berichten Augenzeugen.

Kürzlich appellierten die Vereinigten Staaten an ihre Bürger, die Ukraine zu verlassen.

Gepostet von: Norwegisch | 16. Juli 2022 12:41 UTC

No!
The embassy is closed on weekends. And it's not true that US citizens were recently called upon to leave the country.

https://ua.usembassy.gov/uk/news-events-uk/


Posted by: Idoho | Jul 16 2022 13:11 utc | 321

Author - sofageopolitics

Posted by: ostro | Jul 15 2022 21:38 utc | 186

Ostro, you got a quotable source for this?

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 16 2022 10:35 utc | 296
--------------
@sofageopolitics

Posted by: ostro | Jul 16 2022 13:25 utc | 322

As to land grabbing in Ukraine this article from August 2021 is quite instructive: Who Really Benefits from the Creation of a Land Market in Ukraine?

Posted by: Udkanten | Jul 16 2022 13:25 utc | 323

@Idoho | Jul 16 2022 13:11 utc | 324

https://www.txtreport.com/news/2022-07-14-the-us-embassy-in-kyiv-called-on-americans-to-leave-ukraine.Sy_ySJ0iq.html

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 13:26 utc | 324

Nice clear analysis of what is in front of NYTs reader's eyes.

I just sent MoA what I could. We have to keep these outlets alive to keep the truth alive.

Posted by: intp1 | Jul 16 2022 13:28 utc | 325

Nice clear analysis of what is in front of NYTs reader's eyes.

I just sent MoA what I could. We have to keep these outlets alive to keep the truth alive.

Posted by: intp1 | Jul 16 2022 13:29 utc | 326

Nice clear analysis of what is in front of NYTs reader's eyes.

I just sent MoA what I could. We have to keep these outlets alive to keep the truth alive.

Posted by: intp1 | Jul 16 2022 13:29 utc | 327

US transgender Admiral Rachel Levine and Deputy Assistant Secretary of Nuclear Energy Sam Brinton at the French Embassy at a Bastille Day reception.

Answer the question honestly for yourself: are these the values that you are ready to instill in your children? Or do we still fight for our own?

- Maria Zakharova

Posted by: ostro | Jul 16 2022 13:55 utc | 328

Nice solution to the meeting in Vinnitsa. When are they going to do the same to the government? Or Shoigu's plan is to see if zelly can hit an npp with himars?

Posted by: rk | Jul 16 2022 13:57 utc | 329

From 92:

The children will play ... please go away and study some basic physics. The global warming impact of CO2 has been known since the nineteenth century and is an established scientific fact, just like gravity, the Earth revolving around the Sun etc.

---

Wait wait wait. You want to compare the complexities of the climate with gravity?
Just one CO2 theory IMHO doesn't make a summer. There are way way more effects impacting our climate, not? How many are known, impacting each other.. It seems to be a very complex system. Trusting the scientist community? Ah, after what had happened lately, doesn't make me want to invest one calorie of brain energy to check your established scientific fact.

What I did however was reading up on Wikipedia (what else) regarding the ice age and warm periods. They tell me we live in the ice age right now. They also tell me 80% of our climate history was during warm periods. Current and past average temperatures you can read up yourselve (hint: reversal to the mean has way to go.. up). Seems pretty established knowledge.

PS. Regarding nineteenth century, you mean Svante Arrhenius.. Strong rumors related to... Greta Thunberg. Ahh, big yawn.. thanks, not interested in the theory.

Posted by: C | Jul 16 2022 14:12 utc | 330

Wait wait wait. You want to compare the complexities of the climate with gravity?

Yes, it only took Einstein and his general theory of relativity to explain gravity. Congratulations if you understand it all. Climate models are complex and not yet reliable, but CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

Posted by: RB | Jul 16 2022 14:29 utc | 331

Posted by: ostro | Jul 16 2022 13:55 utc | 331

One can support Russia's right to defend itself without stooping to this kind of homophobic rant.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 16 2022 14:50 utc | 332

Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 16 2022 4:40 utc | 258

Re: Legal action against return of Gazprom turbines.

I have said all along this was a business arrangement between 2 corporations, Siemens and Gazprom. If Canada had refused, the solution would have been for Siemens to move the equipment and staff from Montreal to a facility in Germany. I would be surprised if they do not have similar plans in the works for the next maintenance cycle.

Which would have been another justified kick in the head for Canada as a "global player".

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jul 16 2022 15:08 utc | 333


Crimea is ready to provide ports for Belarusian goods
https://t.me/sputnik/8777

This has some new implications I believe...

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 15:18 utc | 334

@Opport Knocks | Jul 16 2022 15:08 utc | 336

I believe Siemens is on the same side with US and Canada. That wasn't the only place on the planet that could service those turbines. Canada was chosen to steal the turbines and that helps Germany's planned collapse. Russia didn't stop the gas, as US expected, so they had to disable NS1. The damage is done, Germany can't fill the storage for winter anymore, they're going down. It might work if they open both NS1 and NS2 and pump at maximum flow. To prevent that from happening, Schlitzy and the Greens were put in place. German protesters will be beaten by Schlitzy like they've never seen before

Posted by: rk | Jul 16 2022 15:37 utc | 335

Posted by: Idoho | Jul 16 2022 13:11 utc | 324

"And it's not true that US citizens were recently called upon to leave the country."

The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens in Ukraine to depart now using privately available ground transportation options if it is safe to do so.

SOURCE:
Interesting - If I insert the URL of the UA US Embassy security alert the entire post depopulates and shows up blank.

A web search for
security-alert-u-s-embassy-kyiv-ukraine-information-for-u-s-citizens-in-ukraine
may pull up the actual US embassy warning from which the above text was obtained.

Posted by: Sushi | Jul 16 2022 16:12 utc | 336

ostro @ 331, xiao pignouf @ 335

I think there may be a concern about how LGBT people relate to non-LGBT society.

To put this in a context which is more familiar for me: here is a video for Indomitable by DJ Shub, who is First Nations. In it, he appears in a suit while working in an office downtown, in a casual shorts outfit, and in his full regalia when he’s dancing at a pow wow.

https://youtu.be/qTJvpfkRRdA

Is he self-hating in one outfit and not in the other? What if he was expected to appear in full regalia everywhere, all the time, to express himself as a First Nations person? That’s what Native Pride meant, irrespective of the traditions, values, history, culture of the regalia and its wear, it’s use. Human rights concern? Oppressive? And then, when all these First Nations people appear in all kinds of locations in full regalia… when others ask about it, including other First Nations people, they are shouted down for being discriminatory, exclusionary, bigoted, insensitive. What then?

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 16 2022 16:14 utc | 337

A simple look at the satellite picture of the "House of Officer's" shows that it contains a dance hall, a shoe shop, another shopping facility (although currently that one shows as a recording studio) a bank and a music/concert venue. It has been a civilian cultural/shopping venue for a long time. Concerts have been taking place there frequently for many years and were still happening or due to happen before the building was destroyed. The evidence of its cultural and civilian use is there for all to see (over 2,000 reviews on Google of the House of Officer's concert venue) but where is the evidence that it was currently in use as a military facility ?
Yes, Vinnytsia is the centre for the Ukrainian Air Force Command - which the Russians attacked and maybe destroyed back in March - so maybe they did have the need to re-use the old House of Officer's - but the Russians must have know that it was still currently in use as a civilian cultural centre and that there would be civilian casualties. Is the Russian intel really so poor, so out of date that they don't know where civilian buildings, shopping centres and cultural venues are ? Or is avoiding unnecessary civilian casualties not a primary consideration ? The Russian MOD statement that the shopping mall in Kremenchuk was "non-functioning" was plainly stupid as again there was plenty of available evidence to show it was fully functioning.
The often quoted "fact" that Google shows no reviews or updates for the last few months of many facilities throughout Ukraine is not evidence that anywhere has closed or is no longer functioning, it merely shows that Google is fairly consistent in its policy of switching off updates and reviews to places in Ukraine back in February and March.

Posted by: TruthCannotBeFetched | Jul 16 2022 16:23 utc | 338

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 16 2022 14:50 utc | 335

One can support Russia's right to defend itself without stooping to this kind of homophobic rant.

The post ostro | Jul 16 2022 13:55 utc | 331 contains one URL and two questions.

Where is the rant?

Posted by: Sushi | Jul 16 2022 16:24 utc | 339

321 - Turkey is domestically quite repressive, the idea of "terrorism" there is stretched to ludicrous lengths by the government's police and judiciary, and the Swedish court's refusal to behave like an extension of the Turkish judicial system is quite laudable.

Posted by: Waldorf | Jul 16 2022 16:36 utc | 340

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jul 16 2022 16:14 utc | 340
> To put this in a context which is more familiar for me: here is a video for Indomitable by DJ Shub, who is First Nations. In it, he appears in a suit while working in an office downtown, in a casual shorts outfit, and in his full regalia when he’s dancing at a pow wow.

OTOH Maria Zakharova does not wear suit & tie while at work, het attire is more like the one that shaven head is wearing. Why so? Why she is not wearing a suit like her boss? Something about dress codes derived from social norms? Well I guess trans people want to challenge that, and that is the whole point.

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 16 2022 17:10 utc | 341

The real cognitive dissonance in the West will occur well after Ukraine, if and when Russia decides leaving Kaliningrad exposed to the whims and moods of EU bureaucrats is just far too risky, and curbstomps the Baltic states in a matter of days, slaughtering about 3,000 "NATO" troops in the first 24 hours in the process.

Seeing NATO aircraft hacked out of the skies in droves by Russian AD, seeing columns of NATO troops fleeing West for their lives, leaving all their heavy equipment behind them, that will be the real cognitive dissonance.

The Russians no longer care two stiffs about the non-Russian civilians in the Baltic states. They will not try to avoid civilian casualties there as they did in Ukraine. Western civilians will scratch their heads, saying "I was told the Russians were beaten so badly in Ukraine, they would barely survive as a country. This isn't happening ..."

Posted by: Konstantinos | Jul 16 2022 17:11 utc | 342

Time for some fact-correcting. Much discussion of #2 post by C1ue, who quotes a Larry Johnson set of statistics on TV news viewership then (1960's) and now. First fact correction for today is that the US' population in the '60's was not the stated 250 million. US population in 1967 was 200 million (in even millions) and 205 million in 1968. Reinterpreting the statistics on viewership then/now, back during the Vietnam War, at its peak, almost exactly one American in four watched TV news every day. With a current US population of 330 million, current TV and cable daily news viewership is one American in twelve.

Paul Greenwood, #43, talks of Fuel-Air Explosives and the Dresden raid in the same sentence. The Fuel-Air Explosive ordnance wasn't developed until the early '70's, is my understanding, and was used in a limited amount by the USAF in the very latter stages of the war, against NVA forces in SVN during the '72 offensive. It was rather terrifyingly effective, is my understanding, against infantry. The RAF practice of urban destruction did involve dropping large high-capacity bombs (2, 4, and 6 ton steel cylinders of TNT) to knock roofs off and break windows of buildings to where much smaller (4 lb. or so) incendiary bombs would alight on the now exposed flammable house internals. If things went right, you had a Hamburg-like firestorm. Generally they didn't, but you still burned up lots of buildings. The USAF destruction of Japanese cities skipped the high-explosive part as Japanese urban construction obviated the necessity of using it. We just dropped small (10? lb.)napalm-type incendiaries. Most of the RAF ones were thermite or WP, if I remember their makeup correctly.

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a single general audience article ever written on fuel-air explosives, nor any reportage ever on their use in the Vietnam war, nor if we have ever used them in our wars since. This is rather remarkable and noteworthy.

Posted by: Daniel N. White | Jul 16 2022 17:13 utc | 343

osted by: Opport Knocks | Jul 16 2022 15:08 utc | 336
I agree.

I've twice today attempt to post turbine hostage UPDATE: "military" strategy to blow up G7 banking network revealed. But it keeps disappearing. Which is sad, because I've already seen one poster question RF inviciblity in theater, why? OH WHY? should Russia care about NATO/G7?

Because their trade and finance "partners" are waiting in stage wings.

RT FT | Ukraine accuses top Western banks of 'war crimes'

In an interview with the Financial Times, parts of which were published late on Friday, Oleg Ustenko, economic adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, claimed that the financial institutions were guilty of “helping the Putin regime in this specific way,” referring to trade in Russian hydrocarbons.
[...]
The official also told journalists that Ukraine’s Ministry for Justice is going to sue the banks at the International Criminal Court once the conflict is over. Ustenko pointed out that Kiev’s security services [SBU!] are ["}keeping tabs on those lenders["], which are supporting Russian fossil fuel trade.

According to the FT, earlier this week [Oleg Ustenko] sent letters to the CEOs of JPMorgan Chase, HSBC, Citigroup and Credit Agricole, in which Ustenko urged the financial institutions to stop providing credit to companies that trade Russian oil and sell shares in state-backed oil and gas groups Gazprom and Rosneft.

the crime?
The Ukrainian official reportedly accused the banks of “prolonging” the conflict
the penalty?
they would not be allowed to take part in the postwar reconstruction of Ukraine.
G7 rackeering insuated
Earlier, Japanese Foreign Minister Yoshimasa Hayashi said that the country's authorities would cooperate with the neutral states of the G20 group to encourage them to impose sanctions against Russia. At the same time, the head of European diplomacy, Josep Borrell, said that the countries of the so-called global South represented in the G20 do not share the point of view of the countries of the G7

Mr Chief Prosecutor Khan's "preliminary investigation" plate filling up with conflicts of interest faster than UAF can win the war!

Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 16 2022 18:04 utc | 344

So revealing how it is such an emergency when a Ukrainian civilian dies, but crickets when a Russian/allies dies.

Victor #3

The difference between "worthy" victims and "unworthy" victims, as Chomsky says.

Posted by: Gonzo | Jul 16 2022 18:24 utc | 345

@Scorpion #166
While there are some who have these grandiose plans, the reality is that real world implementation is never going to happen.
The reason the Washington Consensus works isn't some esoteric magical bankster crap - it is actually bog-simple: control over the denominator unit means you can both print infinite denominators (dollars) and also affect supply+interest rates to cause the flow of dollars to ebb and contract in the 3rd world.
Stupid, incompetent and/or corrupt 3rd world nations don't/refuse/make use of - this dynamic, but Russia, China and a few other nations have shown that this can be combated.
So too with pie-in-the-sky idiocies of green energy.

I have waited 20+ years for pudding because proof of superior technology is in the pudding.

I have no pudding.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 16 2022 19:01 utc | 346

@Roger #175
A load of garbage.
You have never even answered a single direct question concerning the consensus beyond spouting the mainstream line, because ultimately you have no interest in potentially discovering that your pet peeve may not be correct.

All this talk about "300x" and "doom in 12 years" and so forth - it is amazing how the literally continuous lack of demonstrated expertise is deemed irrelevant.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 16 2022 19:04 utc | 347

@Sushi #199
I do not reference specific people during MoA discussions "shills", "deniers" and all the other bullshit terms which I have been called repeatedly.

But consensus sheeple are only good for sophomoric wordplay.

Stick to twitter because I literally don't care.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 16 2022 19:06 utc | 348

@Oriental Voice #116
What you say may be true, but itself doesn't mean anything.

People in the 1960s, 1970s and so forth also had far more rationale, collegial discussions amongst each other such that the majority of the idiocy we see today in "news" would be dismissed out of hand.

Today, the majority of people live in varying degrees of solipsism such that interaction with those outside of their spheres is jarring.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 16 2022 19:09 utc | 349

Udkanten | Jul 16 2022 13:25 utc | 326

I found the article you linked to helpful in putting together what seems to be a large puzzle about land grabs in Donbass. We need much more information about the situation.

Posted by: Pundita | Jul 16 2022 23:24 utc | 350

@ Posted by: Daniel N. White | Jul 16 2022 17:13 utc | 346

Paul Greenwood, #43, talks of Fuel-Air Explosives and the Dresden raid in the same sentence. The Fuel-Air Explosive ordnance wasn't developed until the early '70's, is my understanding.....

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a single general audience article ever written on fuel-air explosives, nor any reportage ever on their use in the Vietnam war, nor if we have ever used them in our wars since. This is rather remarkable and noteworthy.

"Thermobaric/Air fuel munitions can be traced back to the German Army of World War II who used a six barreled 15cm 'Nebelwerfer' rocket launcher on the Eastern Front."

"In the war against terror in Afghanistan, the United States used a new generation of thermobaric bombs, the BLU-118/B11. It is the BLU-109 2000lb penetrating warhead with a thermobaric filling of 560lb, and can be fitted with a laser guidance or glide bomb kit. A warhead for the Hellfire missile has also been developed."

I also recall some reports about the use of the MOAB (mother of all bombs) in Afghanistan. So air fuel/Thermobaric munitions have existed since world war 2. Indeed the US started using them in the Vietnam war. And I expect they used them in every other significant military action/war since then. And there have been reports about it's use in the media, most notably maybe the MOAB.

Posted by: GoverntheMente | Jul 17 2022 0:40 utc | 351

The NYT photo at the top of the page is a great photograph, but it is intentionally misleading. It fails to show the northwest wing of the House of Officers, which should extend to the right of the frame. Fresh photos show that the wing no longer exists. Both the southwest and the northwest wings of the building were hit by separate missiles.

Photos here:

For those who said that the strike in Vinnitsa “didn’t hit anything”

https://t.me/asbmil/3023

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 17 2022 0:57 utc | 352

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Jul 16 2022 11:48 utc

Thanks for your reply

Posted by: Browser | Jul 17 2022 4:49 utc | 353

in the 1960s ...
In contrast, ...
The NYTimes, WaPo and other print are almost certainly seeing the same types of declines.
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 15 2022 14:16 utc | 2

I assume you slipped up with your wording and by "NYTimes, WaPo and other print" actually mean the total readership including internet sites of such traditional media - in which case I would agree with you, the total including internet sites has probably seen a similar decline since the 60's or (at a blind guess) rather more. If you meant literally what you wrote then I would have to disagree with you: as far as I understand, the traditional printed paper readership of the traditional news media has so catastrophically declined in recent decades that the current print readership is trivial compared to the internet site readership, and the business model of traditional media has been totally turned upside down. So the readership of print alone, excluding the related websites, has probably declined by many orders of magnitude compared to the 60's, and in that sense is not comparable at all to the figures you cited!

On the other hand I wonder whether the movement towards what you call "alternative sites" is really as significant as you suggest. I don't know, I really have no handle on that other than third-hand popular impressions of what happens in the world, how people seem to react to events etc, none of which I am in a position to witness for myself. However my gut feeling is that most of the movement is more towards utterly bland, utterly mindless trash sites that in any case regurgitate the same assumptions as the MSM in the background, rather than any meaningful alternative to the MSM. Most people today in the combined West (and probably most especially in the US, but certainly highly pronounced also in Europe) have become mindless zombies, controlled by the ever stupider propaganda, uncritical, living only for momentary sense-impression. If that were not so, in my opinion, the popular reaction on the streets these days would be dwarfing that of the 60's. Today popular reaction is impossible on any scale, (a) because people are so zombified, inert and disinterested; and (b) because the level of political control and mind control is so high.

Posted by: BM | Jul 17 2022 6:49 utc | 354

Re the repeated statements, claims and sneering hostility from the likes of Norwegian, Opport Knocks, c1ue and others towards anyone who takes either or both the science concerning and threats from climate change seriously, I would ask, as politely as possible, that you refrain from further embarrassing yourselves, as you clearly are either being disingenuous or (wince) woefully ignorant.

Climate Change as it plays out in the real world is in fact accelerating much faster than the heavily politicized and thus watered-down 'consensus' reports from the IPCC and similar bodies have predicted. The Arctic, and all that thawing permafrost full of methane, is already doomed, as are most Arctic species that have effectively zero time to adapt. It is now routine to have vast areas on summer days well above the Arctic Circle with highs (and lows) one would expect a thousand miles south. Anyone living in the northern temperate zone and paying any attention at all knows the summers are longer, hotter, the winters shorter and milder, much drier for some and much wetter for others, and that violent billion$-plus storms are far more frequent.

These changes in climate are going to massively dislocate entire regions long before 2050. Glaciers world-wide are retreating. Drought is already endemic in the US southwest, much of Northern Africa all the way to Afghanistan, China and elsewhere. The combination of shrinking rivers (less and eventually no melt water and less rain), increasing heat and drought, and the immense economic devastation/virtual de-industrialization resulting from US-led wars and/or economic dictat, in Libya, Sudan, Egypt, Ethiopia, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan etc., spells catastrophe for the peoples of this vast, vast area. Agriculture of all types is under severe threat, emphatically so in the case of US-originated and globally imposed agriculture consisting of corporately owned seed for increasingly global GMO mono-cultures + name your poisons + ever-increasing quantities of fertilizer to compensate for the terrifying rapidity of soil depletion/exhaustion and/or toxic degradation.

Anyone paying attention already knows how serious the water issues are as we speak in all of these places. The point is that we've already guaranteed a profoundly dangerous period involving major, successive crop failures, livestock losses, water shortages, sanitation failures etc that will affect a billion people who, because their real economies have been so decimated by the US they simply won't have the capacity to respond. All of the means hundreds of millions of desperate people on the move in all directions.

But according to our fossil fuel lobbyists here at MOA Climate Change is nothing, so let's broaden this a tad:

We have, mostly since 1970, managed, in addition, to fuck up just about everything we touch. Industrial logging completely destroys far more forest than is ever successfully replanted. Logging and agricultural expansion have obliterated more than two thirds of the world's timber in a mere 50 years. The current pace will see our forests in complete ruin in another 20 years, not to recover until we pass. The same is true for fish, which supply 2 billion people with the mainstay of their diet. Well, we've already destroyed 90% of the larger fish, and our methods for catching almost literally everything else are so intense the entire system will go down in, again, another 20 years - if we're lucky.

The simple fact is if you look at the total impacts of what we're doing, as have innumerable serious non-corporate scientists, specialists, thinkers etc., people who know what they're talking about, it is simply as obvious as it is terrifying to watch the titanic train wreck both hurtle towards us and unfold before us at the same time. The Limits of Growth gave the 'conduct business-as-normal' approach the world has in fact followed every year since it was first published until the year 2040 for systemic collapse. That study was repeated with enormously more data just several years ago and the outcome was the same: keep going as is, and it all comes apart. And anyone who has done enough serious, relevant reading and has any kind of imagination at all can understand perfectly well both the enormity and proximity of the threat and the criminally insanity of the people ensconced first, at the top of the US power structure, then gone global - the people responsible for bringing the world and everything living on it to this greatest of humanity's crises, preventing to this day any serious effort at all to dodge the iceberg. From all appearances, what the US has decided to do is force the rest of the world to reduce emissions (among other things) by actively preventing industrialization/development across most of the globe, strangling any malcontents with sanctions to constant warring to effectively total destruction of a country's capacity to absorb what's coming. Some of you very, very badly need to open your eyes so you can see the wall before we hit it.

And I hold the US 100% responsible for this horrific war in Ukraine. Every senior individual with a major role in the decision-making regarding Ukraine/Russia in the US, Canada, UK, rest of NATO ought to be put on trial in a special tribunal court convened by the UN General Assembly. Off to prison every one.

Posted by: tom E | Jul 17 2022 8:31 utc | 355

Posted by: TruthCannotBeFetched | Jul 16 2022 16:23 utc | 341

Must have been the faulty air conditioners then

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jul 17 2022 9:05 utc | 356

@tom E | Jul 17 2022 8:31 utc | 358

Anyone living in the northern temperate zone and paying any attention at all knows the summers are longer, hotter, the winters shorter and milder, much drier for some and much wetter for others, and that violent billion$-plus storms are far more frequent.

So, if I were to pick a random location in the Northern temperate zone, you would be prepared to provide the data going back, say, 50 years, to show that the summers are now longer and hotter, and the winters shorter and milder?

Actually, first you would need to define length of season and severity of season. How do you determine when spring has ended and summer begun, or when summer has ended and autumn had begun? (Likewise for the start and end of winter.) And is hotter determined by high temperature for the day, low temperature for the day, average for the day, seven-day average...?

The passage I quoted above is typical of the ill-defined, sweeping generalizations that are made in claiming "climate change" and that should be inadmissible in any substantive discussion, let alone one supposedly about science.

Also, when you write, "much drier for some and much wetter for others," when would this not have been the case on this planet?

In the fall and autumn here in the mountains, it's not unusual for the outdoor temperature to drop 30 degrees F. in 12 hours (say, from 4:30 PM to 4:30 AM the next day). Not what one would expect if the earth's atmosphere were a greenhouse.

Agriculture of all types is under severe threat, emphatically so in the case of US-originated and globally imposed agriculture consisting of corporately owned seed for increasingly global GMO mono-cultures + name your poisons + ever-increasing quantities of fertilizer to compensate for the terrifying rapidity of soil depletion/exhaustion and/or toxic degradation.

That you would see fit to mention this in a post that's supposedly about climate change (that is, the alleged greenhouse effect) and then imply that the "climate change deniers" would dispute it indicates that the poster who is being disingenuous is you.

Posted by: David Levin | Jul 17 2022 14:45 utc | 357

Posted by: tom E | Jul 17 2022 8:31 utc | 358

Climate Change as it plays out in the real world is in fact accelerating much faster than the heavily politicized and thus watered-down 'consensus' reports from the IPCC and similar bodies have predicted.

A great many of the "denialists" do not understand this point.

And like Mr Levin at David Levin | Jul 17 2022 14:45 utc | 360 they lack understanding of the science, have zero genuine concern about the issues, and fail to recognize you cannot put toothpaste back in the tube, nor can you roll history back to the 1950's, or any earlier arcadia, when the present turns to shit.

I encourage you in your efforts but I have a failing optimism for the prospects of homo sapiens sapiens. The world will get along quite well without us.

Cheers!

Posted by: Sushi | Jul 17 2022 19:26 utc | 358

@Sushi | Jul 17 2022 19:26 utc | 361

I appreciate the courtesy in the use of "Mr", but it makes me feel even older. 8^)

Posted by: David Levin | Jul 17 2022 22:56 utc | 360

The western media has been nothing but Tokyo Rose, Lord Haw Haw and Baghdad Bob since day 1.

Posted by: Glen B | Jul 18 2022 8:43 utc | 361

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 9:47 utc | 287

"Earth's atmosphere is starved of CO2, that is why you can buy CO2 generators to put in glass greenhouses to increase growth."

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 16 2022 6:34 utc | 267

"Correlation does not imply causation."

Hmmm...

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jul 18 2022 11:07 utc | 362

« previous page

The comments to this entry are closed.