Lysichansk Is Under Control Of The Russian Side
Lysichansk is now under control of the Russian side of the war.
This was reported by a Russian speaking journalist from the Lysichansk City Park (map) which is at the center of the city. There are a few locals around him who seem to be happy. There is no background noise of shooting or artillery fire or impacts in his report.
The Lugansk People’s Republic now has the entire territory of the Lugansk oblast under its control.
This comes only a week after the cauldron around Lysichansk began to close. Until a few hours ago there was still a chance to flee from Lysichansk but the only passable road was under Russian fire. It is not know yet how many made it out or how many gave up and were taken prisoners.
Some of those who retreated went to Siversk some 20 kilometer west of Lysichansk. That city will be the next bigger target in that campaign sector.
The speed of this operation was much faster than the one in Mariupol. That points to diminished capabilities and soldier motivation of the Ukrainian forces.
The now much shortened frontline frees up several battalion tactical groups on the Russian side which can now be refitted and rested to then move elsewhere.
Posted by b on July 2, 2022 at 16:42 UTC | Permalink
next page »Allah willing, DPR fully liberated in the next few weeks and then along the coast to Odessa
Posted by: kalton | Jul 2 2022 16:46 utc | 2
Got “new posted”.
Following my speculation about ICE automakers potentially finding an easier path to riches by shorting their companies’ stock or their country ETFs than by continuing to compete on the world stage, I would love to see Nuland’s financial investments over her career.
Posted by: dfg | Jul 2 2022 16:52 utc | 3
I found it helpful to go to the link below for a map of the area in question.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/12i/ukrmap20220627-1.jpg
Posted by: juliania | Jul 2 2022 16:52 utc | 4
Great news! Whats clear is that this is one of the most advanced military operations ever. Minimizing civilian casualties while fighting a NATO army that uses terrorist tactics. No wonder people celebrate when the Russians come! Hopefully success brings with it world peace. Its clear NATO's actions are clearly to save a war economy.
Posted by: El Jefe | Jul 2 2022 16:52 utc | 5
The area to the west of Lysichansk is predominately open ground with a few scattered small towns. The UAF do not appear to have prepared defensive positions in this western expanse.
The open terrain will operate to the advantage of the RF with is ground attack aircraft and long range artillery fires. It is possible to create a second cauldron by and advance to the arc Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Kostrantynivka and thereby threaten the envelopment of all the UAF forces in the Donbass front by threatening to take them in the rear and interdict all of their supply routes.
Posted by: Sushi | Jul 2 2022 16:54 utc | 6
The gratitude of those liberated is going to take a big propaganda curtain to hide.
Spin up the Wurlitzer!
Posted by: too scents | Jul 2 2022 16:58 utc | 7
Basically, I am indifferent to either Russia or Ukraine. My concerns are about the neo-con coterie which controls our own U$A. I do not want them succeeding in another of their nefarious schemes. In that sense I hope Russia ruins their whole day.
Posted by: Chris Herz | Jul 2 2022 17:12 utc | 8
Chris Herz #8;
Chris I just read an interesting article by Prof.John.J. Measheimer. He probably has an answer to
your hope of Russia ruins the neo-cons. If Russia wins this war will the neo-cons accept their loss or will they refer to nuclear war because they cannot accept losing the war.
John Mearsheimer is Honorary Professor of Political Science at the Higher School of International Relations. He is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago. Mr Mearsheimer is best known for developing the theory of offensive realism, which describes the interaction between great powers as primarily driven by a rational desire to achieve regional hegemony in an anarchic international system.
Link
https://southfront.org/history-will-judge-the-united-states-and-its-allies-john-j-mearsheimer/
This article gives me goose-bumps.
Posted by: DutchZ | Jul 2 2022 17:38 utc | 9
This is a huge setback for the Ukrainian military, and to western propaganda given how fast the city was taken (and the civilians welcoming the Russians as liberators). The Ukies couldn't even do a repeat Avozstal in the Avot plant. I note the comments about the unfortified terrain west of Lysychansk from Sushi above, but it is still a marker to the degradation of the Ukie armies fighting abilities.
The Russians are no longer fighting the type of well trained and disciplined soldiers that they were in Mariupol, quite the opposite. And now it looks like the Ukie state is trying to mobilize a large part of the female population from October 1st, as well as begging other states to send back all Ukrainian military age men, and mobilizing youths as young as 14 or even younger.
I wouldn't be surprised if Siversk is rapidly outflanked and the Russians quickly move to the Kramatorsk line of defences. The other sectors weakened by losses and transfers to the Donbass may also give way with not that many Russian reinforcements required.
I agree: this is a momentous occasion. But those forces won't be free until the surrender. Prior to the Ukrops' surrender, the Allied Forces will be forced to remain largely in place.
Any groups (battalions, regiments, etc) that have been consistently on the front lines will be sent back for R&R. All others will remain in place until a full surrender or full destruction is completed.
This has been how the Allied Forces have conducted all of their actions in the past, and it will remain the case now.
As for the "gratitude of those liberated"--to be frank, most of the city is likely destroyed, along with whatever homes were established, there. The "liberated" may well (and in my opinion likely will) be grateful for the support they received after the war, but for now the vast majority of people who once lived and worked in Lisichansk are angry, poor, hungry, and exposed. Very few of "those liberated" currently feel as if they have been "liberated."
Don't get me wrong: I fully agree that Russia will administer this region far better than the Ukrainian government ever did.
But for now?
Now is wartime, and those "liberated" peoples currently feel they have just lived through something not too far off from the siege of Leningrad.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jul 2 2022 17:45 utc | 12
The speed of this operation was much faster than the one in Mariupol. That points to diminished capabilities and soldier motivation of the Ukrainian forces.Um, there weren't the same underground nuclear bunkers as in Mariupol.
Posted by: laguerre | Jul 2 2022 17:46 utc | 13
Thanks b, this is great news.
Meanwhile, the NATO propaganda racket makes sure that most Germans really believe...
While all points have been debunked here, at the Saker and other places, this should be reiterated from time to time.
The collective braindead west's sheer disconnect with reality is a gift that keeps on giving and will sure as hell surprise many consumers of the mainstream media.
Posted by: Nervous German | Jul 2 2022 17:46 utc | 14
Here's the stupid Pentagon appraisal
"Fighting continues in the Donbas, the official said, with high casualties on both sides and very little ground changing hands."
And then: "In other related news, this afternoon, DOD announced $820 million in additional security assistance for Ukraine. This includes an authorization of a presidential drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $50 million, as well as $770 million in Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, or USAI funds." . . .more money down the rathole.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 17:50 utc | 15
The speed of this operation was much faster than the one in Mariupol. That points to diminished capabilities and soldier motivation of the Ukrainian forces.Um, there weren't the same underground nuclear bunkers as in Mariupol.@ Posted by: laguerre | Jul 2 2022 17:46 utc | 13
There were the Lisichansk Oil Refinery, and also the Siervierdonetsk steel works. From the Russian perspective, the steel works (Avozstal? It was something very close to Azovstal...) were certainly of the same mettle as Azovstal--the Russian MoD made that very clear about that. The Russian MoD was also extremely clear about its negotiations to free the human shields the Ukrop forces had assembled, there.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jul 2 2022 17:54 utc | 16
Formatting didn't work on that last one. I do hope everyone will forgive me.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jul 2 2022 17:54 utc | 17
@ Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 17:50 utc | 15
"Fighting continues in the Donbas, the official said, with high casualties on both sides and very little ground changing hands."
And then: "In other related news, this afternoon, DOD announced $820 million in additional security assistance for Ukraine. This includes an authorization of a presidential drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $50 million, as well as $770 million in Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, or USAI funds." . . .more money down the rathole.
Yap. "Fighting continues..."--utter contempt for dead Ukrainians.
Contempt. Simple, selfish, narcissistic contempt.
"The West" is a carefully constructed cadre of narcissists, concocted by the post-WWII nationalists who wrest control of the US and NATO from the partisans and Communists who did the actual fighting and dying that NATO (via West US/uk+German/Italian history) now denies ever happened.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jul 2 2022 18:02 utc | 18
DutchZ no 9
Some of the comments on that article gave me hysterics.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jul 2 2022 18:07 utc | 19
Both Saker and Martynove are hanging their hats on rationalization of failures of their predictions.
None of them is educated. Saker got the runs after the SMO began, and ran off like a little girl, when his priest failed to console him; Martynove thinks that a childhood degree defines a person for ever!(life is static, and people are unable to learn or change professions: the worst aspect of soviet assumptions).
The other day Martynove was enjoying explaining the "mathematics" of a force multiplier. It was trivial high-school level stuff but he thought it was special gift of God to humanity.
Both of them are attention seekers. People suck up to them, or they are kicked out. Just remember what happened to nightxxx, who wrote better than Saker.
We will see how Bernhardt stands the test of time. I notice a lot of "Thanks b" type of comments. It looks like these guys cannot live without a bunch of sycophants!
Posted by: Vick | Jul 2 2022 18:14 utc | 20
Taking Severidonetsk took much more time than Lisichansk, probably because best Ukrainian troops and foreign mercenaries were involved in The Azot plant close to Severodonetsk. That battle was somehow similar to Azovstal in Mariupol.
At the time it was mentioned that Ukrainian artillery fire from Lisichansk was a problem for allied troops.
In the battle for Lisichansk it looks like ukrainian troops and artillery somehow disappeared.
It is noteworthy that Ukrainian troops did not destroy the raffinery before leaving the place.
Posted by: Daniel | Jul 2 2022 18:14 utc | 21
@ Pacifica Advocate #16 & 17
Looks like Apollinaire’s Calligrams.
Posted by: Leuk | Jul 2 2022 18:16 utc | 22
Is Russia able to publicize this military victory with a proper PR response?
This comes at a propitious time, when Russia is obviously defeating Ukraine. . .
from NY Times:
After days in which the West has sought to present a muscular and united front in the face of Russia’s challenge to the international order, leaders on Thursday were facing a longer-term dilemma: how to maintain public support for a grinding war whose economic costs are stoking exhaustion.
In a sign of the challenges of maintaining pressure on Russia despite fuel price shocks and wider economic pain, President Biden said at the close of the NATO summit in Madrid on Thursday that Americans should be prepared to pay higher gasoline prices for “as long as it takes, so Russia cannot in fact defeat Ukraine and move beyond Ukraine.” . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 18:19 utc | 23
@Posted by: laguerre | Jul 2 2022 17:46 utc | 13
"Um, there weren't the same underground nuclear bunkers as in Mariupol."
And how long did it take the allied forces to fight their way through Mariupol to get to Avozstal? Also, Mariupol doesn't sit on a higher ground overlooking its surroundings. Severodonetsk fell very rapidly (excluding Avot) and Lysichansk has fallen just as rapidly, including quite a few industrial locations which should serve as good defensive locations. In addition, nowhere near the level of defensive structures were built around Mariupol that were built over the past 8 years around Severodonetsk/Lysichansk.
That's what happens when an army has been in a meat grinder for months on end with no respite, its capabilities and morale plummets. Even worse when replacements are little-trained and completely inexperienced reservists.
Basically, I am indifferent to either Russia or Ukraine. My concerns are about the neo-con coterie which controls our own U$A. I do not want them succeeding in another of their nefarious schemes. In that sense I hope Russia ruins their whole day.Posted by: Chris Herz | Jul 2 2022 17:12 utc | 8
Agreed. I'm not cheering for Russia to 'win', I don't particularly care about Russia. USA, and therefore NATO, must lose if humanity is to have any chance of a future past this century. An alliance of Russia + China can and will defeat USA, hopefully without USA blowing up the planet as the empire collapses. Let's just hope the neocons aren't already in the mineshaft planning phase.
Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jul 2 2022 18:24 utc | 25
@Posted by: Vick | Jul 2 2022 18:14 utc | 20
B has stood the test of time for many years, and he certainly doesn't deserve petulant children acting as disrespectful guests who have done none of the hard work that he has. This is one of the few spaces on the internet left where certain subjects can be discussed in an open and none "official line" manner, and people can disagree with each other without ad hominem attacks, which many of us greatly appreciate and respect its owner for doing the hard work (and it is bloody hard work) to keep it so.
Now either provide actual useful information and comments, which may include factual disagreements with the host, or STFU.
Roger@24
All the evidence seems to support your view.
There is a real possibility that, as the army collapses, Ukrainian 'resistance' will increasingly take the form of hit and run tactics aimed at both Russia and Belarus. An expansion of the battlefield by the increasing use of terrorism- missile attacks on Russian villages for example, car bombs in Moscow and other things from the Islamic State/CIA playbook.
Posted by: bevin | Jul 2 2022 18:28 utc | 27
If only we didnt had that white coup in Italy almost 2 years agò... ...that was clearly in preparation for what's going on now. Without our NATO fanboy holding them, FR and GER sure would have an occasion to take back some sovreignty.
Posted by: k | Jul 2 2022 18:29 utc | 28
From Kyiv Post:
"Ukraine’s army accuses Russia of carrying out strikes using incendiary phosphorus munitions on Snake Island, just a day after Moscow withdrew its forces from the rocky outcrop in the Black Sea."
. . . It's just another 'so what' charge from Ukraine. War is hell, we all know that. So why did you start it, Ukraine?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 18:31 utc | 29
"...more money down the rathole". Don Bacon 15
Because the 3LAs neocons in both parties cling to power through the National Security State and that power derives through "awe" and as in the Wizard of Oz, the ability to project the illusion of power is the source of the actual power.
Love him or hate he/him, Trump started a policy conversation the National Security State [NSS] did not want to take place and for this alone,they deposed him.
Biden's cabal was installed [with assiduous support of urban 'liberals"] to insure the NSS's carefully woven iron curtain was never drawn to reveal the malfeasance plaguing the country since 22 November 1963. With time short, the Biden coterie immediately began preparation for the resumption of Obama's war in Ukraine...
But alas, the now deposed "Toto" had foiled the "grand plan" by not immediately proceeding to culminate Obama's many wars! You don't buy it..eh? Well fine, it doesn't matter, you are not the audience, gullible "liberals" are the target and they'll eat anything. Look for curried "Toto" to wind up served up at some exotic DC restaurant...to rave media reviews!
Posted by: S Brennan | Jul 2 2022 18:31 utc | 30
Let's just hope the neocons aren't already in the mineshaft planning phase.
Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jul 2 2022 18:24 utc | 25
---
The neocon's position is clearly framed here ==> Michael R. Pompeo -- War, Ukraine, and a Global Alliance for Freedom
Posted by: too scents | Jul 2 2022 18:33 utc | 31
So at this stage do we think the war will end in a true peace or a 'frozen war' where only an armistice is agreed if that and no true peace treaty is agreed? A very dangerous and concerning end but it may be the outcome the neocons seek.
The Ukrainian government, whomever they are will ultimately be owned by the West when it pays to reconstruct and even develop it. So if the most influential people in that domain want a 'frozen war' then that will be what happens.
Posted by: Altai | Jul 2 2022 18:35 utc | 32
@Vick 20
Martynove thinks that a childhood degree defines a person for ever!(life is static, and people are unable to learn or change professions: the worst aspect of soviet assumptions).
But yes it does! Thinking like that is one of the most contributing factors to the downfall and dumbing down of western society. If you havent studied for a profession from the fundamentals in the first years to the applications and practice in the last years, following the professional ways and norms, you will always remain an amateur! Of course, unless you do get that diploma at a later date. Educational institutions exist for a reason!
People with language diplomas working in finance, people with social work diplomas working in project management, people with A working in B after a crash course … it is amateurism everywhere. This is especially visible in public admin and semi-public sector as well as in large corps. It is why all institutions are failing in the west, there is for a number of years a general downward trend in quality of work everywhere you look.
Martanov is right. Amateurs pull the strings.
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 18:36 utc | 33
@too scents #31
Thanks, I will watch that on Monday when I'm supposed to be working.
Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jul 2 2022 18:37 utc | 34
So if the most influential people in that domain want a 'frozen war' then that will be what happens.
Posted by: Altai | Jul 2 2022 18:35 utc | 32
---
China is influential and they would like Motor Sich in Zaporizhzhia. They did after all already pay for it.
Posted by: too scents | Jul 2 2022 18:39 utc | 35
Even though a lot of the resistance to the Red Army in the Battle of Berlin had to be entrusted to the relatively untrained Volkssturm and Hitler Youth, Soviet losses were nevertheless enormous: more than 81,000 dead during the battle.
Posted by: Lysias | Jul 2 2022 18:41 utc | 36
@ Altai | Jul 2 2022 18:35 utc | 32
So at this stage do we think the war will end in a true peace
It depends upon several factors including --
1. How Russia communicates the true situation, rather than the Ukie lies we see in the MSM
2. How US/UK politicians respond to the actual conditions, not the fabricated lies
3. How that can get at Biden and Johnson personally to stop the damn war
4. How to find some capable diplomats to do the deed . .etc
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 18:44 utc | 37
headline
71 percent don’t want Biden to run for reelection: poll
. . .a time when the US ought to have a parliamentary system.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 18:50 utc | 38
Posted by: Nervous German | Jul 2 2022 17:46 utc | 14
This 100%. It is utterly embarassing what WE are being fed in Germany by the most seriös news outlets. 95 % is taken uneditted from Ukraine sources and repeated over and over again.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 2 2022 18:51 utc | 39
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 18:36 utc | 33
---------------
A childhood degree has a value, if you got one...😏
A uchilichsha (school) doesn't give degrees, not even a diploma , but just a certificate. Anyway, one has to join it and finish it...😏
In those infamous 90s, there was only one way to do business with the Empire of Lies.
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 18:56 utc | 40
Now that the territory of the Luhansk People's Republic was fully liberated, ahead is Slavyansk-Kramatorsk-Druzhkovka-Konstantinovka-Avdeevka.
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 18:58 utc | 41
Congratulations to Russia and its servicemen. And a happy occasion for those civilians liberated.
Where will Russia stop? The only thing for certain is that is where iron curtain 2.0 will be drawn down.
Except the west won't last very long.
It will be more like a curtain made of lace.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 2 2022 19:05 utc | 42
Military summary over the last week has been talking about another 40,000 UKIE soldiers (probably lightly armed IMHO) thrown into the Siversk direction as well as 40 Russian BTGS being freed up due to the shorting of the front lines. He says that the Russians are probably moving to cut off Siversk from the rear as well as moving towards it from other directions.
There is no stopping the Russians now except when the Russians decide their operation is complete.
Also...
Published video of the strike by American M142 Himars in the Lugansk region
... it should be noted that the blow to the settlement Rovenky was corrected by the US military, since the US had previously assumed responsibility for the use of HIMARS systems, the Ukrainian military is firing, however, the coordinates of the targets are set by the US military on the basis of ongoing air and space reconnaissance.
Posted by: circumspect | Jul 2 2022 19:08 utc | 43
When you get your ass handed to you every single day that might be when you decide to reevaluate your life's choices. Apparently that concept hasn't been arrived at in KEEV (Whenever anyone pronounces Kiev in such a way I honestly think about a hair lip dog.) It's disgraceful that so many people should die for a coked out cross dresser's ego...
Posted by: Craig | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 44
Today, the New York Times, completely oblivious to the impending fall of Lisichansk, ran a front page story on how the U.S. supplied HIMARS is "blunting" the advance of the Russians in Ukraine. They have gone right back to being deep state stenographers, just as they were for all of the regime change wars. The reporters for the NYT have access to the same information we see on the Internet, so ignorance is no excuse. These are deeply dishonest people betraying the trust of the public.
Posted by: HH | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 45
@ostro 40
I was talking about higher education in all its flavors.
Secondary education indeed certifies you for some roles in modern society. Some of these are also professional (vocative) schools so no amateurs there.
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 46
Just to add to this: Russia stopped following the Bologna system immediately after the break with the West for a good reason.
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 19:16 utc | 47
I keep waiting for the "fragging" to start in the Ukie forces.
Fragging is the deliberate or attempted killing by a soldier of a fellow soldier, usually of a superior officer or non-commissioned officer (NCO). U.S. military personnel coined the word during the Vietnam War, when such killings were most often attempted with a fragmentation grenade,[2] sometimes making it appear that the killing was accidental or during combat with the enemy. The term fragging now encompasses any deliberately killing of military colleagues.[3][4]
Maybe it already has?
Posted by: GEORGE M CHAMBERLAIN | Jul 2 2022 19:21 utc | 48
this is good news. hopefully the US will learn a lesson when Russia triumphs, but I'm not going to bet on it.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 2 2022 19:24 utc | 49
they're gonna replace him with the even worse Harris. and she might win is the scariest part.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 2 2022 19:29 utc | 50
HH | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 45
Back, hell, they never stopped.
alek_a | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 46
What if modern society is the problem and the professional-managerial class are the perpetrators? Why are you trying to perpetuate capitalism and its lunatic values? These are not people who deserve piety or respect. Only their material output and service to the working class ought to entitle them to any social existence at all, and deference is fucking out of the question.
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Jul 2 2022 19:30 utc | 51
headline
71 percent don’t want Biden to run for reelection: poll
. . .a time when the US ought to have a parliamentary system.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 18:50 utc | 38
It occurred to me, after seeing this report on You Tube, that among the 29% who said they want Biden to run for reelection, some unknow quantity probably want Biden to run again because they know he is going to lose big time. Left and progressive Democrats are running away from this fool as fast as they can.
Posted by: Ed Nelson | Jul 2 2022 19:33 utc | 52
@Posted by: Lysias | Jul 2 2022 18:41 utc | 36
"Even though a lot of the resistance to the Red Army in the Battle of Berlin had to be entrusted to the relatively untrained Volkssturm and Hitler Youth, Soviet losses were nevertheless enormous: more than 81,000 dead during the battle."
Berlin was a massive city even in 1945, population of over 4 million. Also, from wikipedia page on the Battle of Berlin "The garrison consisted of several depleted and disorganised Army and Waffen-SS divisions, along with poorly trained Volkssturm and Hitler Youth members. Over the course of the next week, the Red Army gradually took the entire city". Even the Volkssturm and Hitler Youth had been conditioned for years that the Red Army were the equivalent of Satan, and they were fighting for their own capital.
Severodonetsk and Lysichansk are part of the LPR, seen as "enemy territory" by the nationalist Ukies. If I remember correctly, the Azov were actually formed in Mariupol - perhaps one of the reasons they fought so hard. Kharkiv, Odessa etc. are also part of "Russian" Ukraine. Even Dnipro cannot be seen as a "Nationalist" stronghold. Perhaps in Kiev, but most especially in North Western Ukraine, the resistance may become as crazed as in Berlin.
they're gonna replace him with the even worse Harris. and she might win is the scariest part.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 2 2022 19:29 utc | 50
---
Kayne West still has an active campaign committee with money left over ==> https://twitter.com/davelevinthal/status/1532838863516860419
Posted by: too scents | Jul 2 2022 19:35 utc | 54
@Posted by: Roger | Jul 2 2022 19:34 utc | 53
Soviet tactics in WW2 were also much less careful of soldier's lives than the Russian army in Ukraine, and the Soviet leadership was in a race with the West to take as much territory as possible.
@Posted by: too scents | Jul 2 2022 19:35 utc | 54
I have wondered whether they will go to Harris, an utterly incompetent, gaffe prone and hatable individual, or jump over to someone like Yellen. That would be another central banker in power to add to Italy and the ex-banker Macron in France. If they stick with Harris I will downgrade my view of elite competence in the US even further.
A bit like the British Queen attempting to stay alive long enough to not let idiot Charles and his cuckolding wife take down the monarchy, to allow the crown to go to the grandson William and his clever wife ( a darn site cleverer than William).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyfhK3lJ4s
video by defence politics Asia - confirming capture of Lizzieschance and Severaldonuts
I would highly recommend Wyatt's channel as he is Singaporean and therefore reasonably neutral even if he mangles the pronunciation of the place names
Posted by: Aslangeo | Jul 2 2022 19:46 utc | 57
As for the "gratitude of those liberated"--to be frank, most of the city is likely destroyed, along with whatever homes were established, there. The "liberated" may well (and in my opinion likely will) be grateful for the support they received after the war, but for now the vast majority of people who once lived and worked in Lisichansk are angry, poor, hungry, and exposed. Very few of "those liberated" currently feel as if they have been "liberated."
Apparently, you have neither time, nor interest in perusing the many photos of Lishiansk/Servodonetsk after the Ukies were driven out, including the photos of allied forces being hugged, kissed by the residents. I presume you are fully occupied with the pages of the Times or the Guardian, or the Post, instead.
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jul 2 2022 19:49 utc | 58
@Roger | Jul 2 2022 19:43 utc | 56
---
The utter banality of it all.
Posted by: too scents | Jul 2 2022 19:53 utc | 59
Severaldonuts, Servodonetsk
Joe Tsu stuff there
Very positive development that Luhansk is now fully liberated!
Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 2 2022 19:55 utc | 61
Roger | Jul 2 2022 19:36 utc | 55 "Soviet leadership was in a race with the West to take as much territory as possible."
Bullshit. Yanks waited until Soviet Union had defeated Hitlers Germany then raced in to grab Europe. Battle of Kursk defeated Germany. After that it was a large scale mopping up operation. Operation Bagration compared to Normandy....
Germany had gone into Russia to create Lebensraum. Mein Kampf makes it clear. Western or European Russia, across to the Urals The land of the eastern slavs was to be Germany's living space.
There were also agreed terms between Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill. Truman like a true American reneged on the agreements of his predecessor.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 2 2022 19:56 utc | 62
What do Barflys think Phase 3 will be ?
1) liberation of Kharkov ? Or
2) liberation of Odessa ?
When will Phase 3 start in Ernest ?
3) Sept 2022
4) March 2023
Posted by: Exile | Jul 2 2022 19:57 utc | 63
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 18:36 utc | 33
More info on the subject here:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2006/mar/12/theobserver.observerbusiness5
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Jul 2 2022 19:59 utc | 64
Anyone care to comment on the Russian/Putin decision to do a prisoner exchange of 43 Azov Battalion prisoners (from Mariupol) with the Ukrainians? This decision was reported as being unpopular with the Russian military.
Posted by: Perimetr | Jul 2 2022 20:01 utc | 65
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 46
------------------------
We were talking about educational degrees awarded in the Soviet times. The universities/Higher Technical Institutes awarded a Diploma (Диплом) as the highest degree, equivalent to MSc/MA in the British System, that is if you defended your Diploma before Educational Panel/Committee. The Technical Ucilitchsha is those schools that produce the lower level/beginner level technical personnel, usually workers. They issue finishing school certificates.
Anyway, to get certificate of any kind one has to enrol and finish the full course, and get through the exams. There's always a number of a certificate or a Diploma, which is unique, whether it was given in the Soviet days, or now.
Well, after reading his blogs for a while, I knew he is bullshitting...😏
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 20:02 utc | 66
I just discovered the following video, it's all in there – the US' view of Europe, Eurasia, Ukraine, the problem child Germany and so on. Disgusting guy...
"Watch the artillery fire in the east, those are the drumbeats of the future":
George Friedman on Europe – start at 44:18 (the link below should start there) and watch till the end.
https://youtu.be/QeLu_yyz3tc?t=2658
Then read the comments from 7 years ago, e.g.
"This is simply one of the most important Talks I have ever seen. I am german and I think some people might understand, that I am not amused, that you guys really consider destroying germany a third time, just because they might be a threat for your world domination plans."
Posted by: zet | Jul 2 2022 20:03 utc | 67
I keep waiting for the "fragging" to start in the Ukie forces. ... Maybe it already has?Posted by: GEORGE M CHAMBERLAIN | Jul 2 2022 19:21 utc | 48
One of the consistent themes of captured Ukrainian military is that they are abandoned by their command and left to fend for themselves. So likely the commanders are aware of this practice.
It is also possible that the Ukrainian commanders leave their less capable fighters to be captured while the more competent fighters are assisted in retreat to fight again. It takes time and money to securely capture each prisoner then transport, house and feed them. "Strategic surrender" can then be spun as part of the USA's grand strategy to weaken Russia ;-)
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jul 2 2022 20:05 utc | 68
So at this stage do we think the war will end in a true peace or a 'frozen war' where only an armistice is agreed if that and no true peace treaty is agreed? A very dangerous and concerning end but it may be the outcome the neocons seek.
The Ukrainian government, whomever they are will ultimately be owned by the West when it pays to reconstruct and even develop it. So if the most influential people in that domain want a 'frozen war' then that will be what happens.
Putin/Lavrov/Shoigu etal.... have made it clear that the war will end when their goals are met....
Which are......
1. De-Nazification of Ukraine
2. De-Militarization of Ukraine
3. Security of the western borderlands
4. Roll-back of NATO to 1997 border(s)
Which means with respect to your question.....
1. Total capitulation == Unconditional Surrender of all Ukrainian forces and their government
2. No frozen conflice
3. True and enduring peace
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jul 2 2022 20:05 utc | 69
Posted by: alek_a | Jul 2 2022 19:16 utc | 47
-------------
In the USSR, it was their own educational system, not some Bologna...
In those days, the Soviet System was the best...as far as the USSR was concerned...I know that system quite well.
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 20:06 utc | 70
@ HH | Jul 2 2022 19:12 utc | 45
The reporters for the NYT have access to the same information we see on the Internet, so ignorance is no excuse. These are deeply dishonest people betraying the trust of the public.
It isn't entirely the fault of the reporters who get their writing orders from the establishment.
no comply = no job
Norman Solomon wrote a book about it:
War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death . .here
"This guide to disinformation analyzes American military adventures past and present to reveal striking similarities in the efforts of various administrations to justify, and retain, public support for war."
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 20:09 utc | 71
@perimeter #65
Captured fighters were all hospitalized with serious injuries incl. amputations. Won’t return to the battlefield. Minimum in civility in a bloody war.
Posted by: zet | Jul 2 2022 20:03 utc | 67
Well, thats the name of the game. The US couldn't be doing with Germany establishing a large degree of trade with China (plus Russian gas), and pulling the rest of the EU after it to the detriment of US/Canadian/etc. markets - very especially for high priced but useless armaments.
Time to tell the rest of Germany what's happening! Good luck.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Jul 2 2022 20:11 utc | 73
Re: Soviet tactics.
We are supposed to believe that the Soviets were masters of the tactical ruse during the war but yet also were caught completely offguard during Barbarossa.
By that logic, we can surmise that the Soviets were not only the fierce warriors that defeated Hitler but were also the sleepy and dopey colossus that were caught flat-footed at the outset.
Can anyone else pick up what is actually at play here or the utility of such a message?
By peddling this narrative, the Soviets can be known as both hero and spotless victim. The perfect synthesis of a modern religion of technicity that the masses must submit to.
Of course, as I have repeated ad nauseum, it doesn't matter what the Trotskyists want us to remember. In the end, Russia is delivering the question of Being back to the west and this question of course carries with it a manifold of implications as to how states want to organize and exist.
This is the way God intended it when he destroyed the Tower of Babel.
Thus, it can be understood that Russia is truly a Christian-Nationalist force par excellence. But that does not mean that Russia will do for the work for the patriot.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 2 2022 20:13 utc | 74
Please, please folks, stop responding to Vick! The entity is a notorious flame-troll with ever-changing aliases.
Posted by: Steve | Jul 2 2022 20:13 utc | 75
What do Barflys think Phase 3 will be ?1) liberation of Kharkov ? Or
2) liberation of Odessa ?Posted by: Exile | Jul 2 2022 19:57 utc | 63
Kharkov, I believe the negotiations will commence in earnest after that, and that Russia may hold out Odessa as a carrot to get US/EU/Ukraine (in that order) to agree to a face saving deal. Odessa is like San Francisco or Amsterdam, there is a large population there that would be problematic for a Russia administered with traditional "family" values. Russia would be better off without thse headaches and Ukraine would have one decent port.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jul 2 2022 20:18 utc | 77
Have anyone here ever been to USSR, Russia, Belarus or Ukraine?
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 20:20 utc | 78
Posted by: Nervous German | Jul 2 2022 17:46 utc | 14
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jul 2 2022 18:51 utc | 39
So true – I'm ultra flabbergasted to see what and how things are being reported here in Germany. 99% of the media including nearly all prominent figures seem to be totally brainwashed and the 1% rest doesn't speak up because they would be cancelled instantly – I've never witnessed such a full spectrum media-induced brainwashing attempt like what is happening here in Germany right now.
Posted by: zet | Jul 2 2022 20:22 utc | 79
Time to tell the rest of Germany what's happening! Good luck.
Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Jul 2 2022 20:11 utc | 73
Thanks but that's impossible right now, see #74 :-/
Posted by: zet | Jul 2 2022 20:23 utc | 81
Mattis made a stupid remark about Russia fading away 'before our eyes'.
The delusion about Ukraine is very useful for Russia as it tends to reduce reactions, foolishly thinking Ukraine has a chance.
I continue to think that some in the US/EU are playing a cynical game - encouraging Ukraine to keep fighting so that Ukraine becomes manageable after it is defeated. Oddly, this favors Russia also. More Ukraine dead equals fewer people to protest or need feeding. Nasty stuff.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 2 2022 20:24 utc | 82
@Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 2 2022 19:56 utc | 62
Absolutely, the West waited until the Soviets defeated the German army. Up until Stalingrad the US was on the sidelines waiting to pick the winner. Churchill made sure that the Western Allies went after easy targets such as Western North Africa and then Sicily, made a big mistake with the "easy" Italian peninsular with a spine of mountains. He wanted the Western Allies to get into the Balkans to stop the Russians taking Eastern Europe.
There had been an agreement to some extent, which in the end the Soviets respected much more (not aiding the communists guerrillas in Greece, leaving Austria and ordering the communists in Italy etc. to play as part fo the Western-implemented political system). Lets also remember that Stalin was a serious paranoid, and that his erstwhile allies were the same nations that had attempted to destroy the Revolution at the start of the 1920s. Roosevelt was also in his last days.
This is quite a balanced view of the positions of the different allied leaders at the time.
"In late March, even as British and American forces got closer, Eisenhower telegrammed Soviet Premiere Joseph Stalin to say Berlin was no longer the objective, and that the Americans would stand pat at the Elbe River. Stalin seemed to agree—but ordered a massive Soviet offensive to capture the city by April 16, just three days later.
"But by contacting Stalin directly, without first consulting ... British Prime Minister Winston Churchill ..., Eisenhower had angered the British leader. In a series of telegrams at the end of March, Churchill fervently objected to Eisenhower’s decision—and urged him to press on."
Lets remember that Churchill wanted an immediate attack on the Soviets in the immediate aftermath of WW2 and was not against nuking multiple Soviet cities. He was a pure realist, seeing Nazism as a greater threat than Communism, but when the former had been defeated the latter became the primary enemy. Just the same after Imperial Russia defeated Le Grand Armee and became a major European power, Britain went from being a Russian ally to a Russian enemy (with the Crimean War the natural outcome).
Didn't take long for some Outlaw US Empire agencies to get their new propaganda orders, "China may be plotting moon takeover – NASA: Chinese astronauts are busy learning how to destroy other nations’ satellites, agency chief Bill Nelson claimed."
Now that's something Russia hasn't been accused of--yet. NASA must be in a world of butt-hurt since it has so little money to play with and is arguably at its lowest point since its inception. China's moon venture is a well known international project in partnership with Roscosmos that specifically omitted the Outlaw US Empire since it barred China from participating in the International Space Station project. NASA's head man, Bill Nelson, at 79 is clearly an unreformed Cold Warrior and Anti-Chinese bigot whose ravings are just that. IMO, he'd make an excellent roommate for Biden at an assisted living home, which is where they both belong.
Have you noticed that suddenly the western MSM had stopped mentioning the "wheat embargo" or even Snake island?
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 20:30 utc | 86
"So at this stage do we think the war will end in a true peace?"
Agree with Don Bacon's points about this in the near term. More generally, the answer is probably "no" based on previous US behaviour in Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba, Vietnam etc. etc. US defeat leads to infinite resentment, victory to infinite exploitation. Sometimes there's an uneasy combination of the two, but "peace" as in friendly and constructive symbiosis, no.
Posted by: T Paine | Jul 2 2022 20:30 utc | 87
@Posted by: Perimetr | Jul 2 2022 20:01 utc | 65
The Azov guys were all heavily injured, one Ukrainian witness stated that they mostly had legs, arms and/or eyes missing. And they didn't even get to go to Valhalla....
@Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 2 2022 20:28 utc | 85
The range of headlines available to the National Enquirer just keeps getting shorter every day!
@ Eighthman | Jul 2 2022 20:24 utc | 82
Mattis made a stupid remark about Russia fading away 'before our eyes'.
That's because Mattis, the butcher of Fallujah, is a stupid man.
. . .in 2005, at Quantico - quote
"Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight," he said. "You know, it's a hell of a hoot. . . . It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you. I like brawling. You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.". . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 20:41 utc | 89
What do Barflys think Phase 3 will be ?
Posted by: Exile | Jul 2 2022 19:57 utc | 63
Phase 3 will start as soon as Germany realises that it has been f'ed by the USA and the Schlumpf Scholz picks up the phone to call Putin to ask for gas being delivered via NS2 :-) :-) :-)
Ah, well, that won't happen... either because Germany won't ever realise or Scholz won't be there anymore or ...
Posted by: zet | Jul 2 2022 20:41 utc | 90
Scholz has said to allow Russian shipments to Kaliningrad.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 2 2022 20:45 utc | 91
Odessa today, as though a war is not going on...https://youtu.be/500uqrubOh0
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 20:47 utc | 92
NemesisCalling@74
I know: you will go to any lengths to re-establish the nonsense, to which you are wedded that Stalin was preparing to attack Hitler who hastily improvised Barbarossa to stymie that treacherous aggressor....the Commies are as bad (actually worse) than the Nazis etc etc.
And nothing anyone can tell you will rid you of the idea.
Still, the 'argument' if that is what you are attempting, that the Red Army was so crafty and clever that it could not have been taken in by the surprise German attack, is irrelevant.
In fact, behind your affected Christianity and the anti-Trotskyism of someone who shows no sign of having read any of Trotsky or even his biographers, lurks nothing more sophisticated than another apology for Hitler. Wrapping up Nazi propaganda in pseudo christianity or crocodile tear soaked White Russian nationalism doesn't fool anyone.
It wasn't Trotsky who invented the idea that the Supreme Soviet was caught off-guard and thinking wishfully by Barbarossa. That was actually what happened and it came very close, very close, to crushing the Soviet centre in Moscow. Had the Red Army been poised to attack Germany its response would have been very different.
But excuse me... you are trolling. Trolling for Hitler and calling it Christianity. Its an old story.
Posted by: bevin | Jul 2 2022 20:52 utc | 93
Have anyone here ever been to USSR, Russia, Belarus or Ukraine?Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 20:20 utc | 78
Been to Russia 6 years ago: St. Petersburg, Moscow, Volgograd. Rode the Sapsan from SPB to MSK — very enjoyable, nice clean high-speed train quiet on the inside. The stark contrast from seeing westoid inner cities like NYC, Paris, London, Berlin or Frankfurt: cleanliness on an almost Japanese level. And high-speed internet almost ubiquitous at comparatively cheap rates, even considering big-mac index style currency/purchasing power factors.
Now of course, if you get to the countryside, there's no much difference to neglected parts of the U.S. or Germany, with bad roads, slow inet, meager infrastructure.
But one thing is clear: Where the west has been in total decline since "the wall came down" 30+ years ago, Russia has been rebuilding since Putin came to power and got the oligarchs and the state budget sorted. Progress is visible; the almost steady rise of quality of living and the unimpeded availability of both necessities and luxury alike are visible.
Western politicians, pundits and other ideologists on western media are indisputably trapped in their 80's view of a Soviet Russia falling apart—at least once a month for 8 years now 🤣
If there were only a German or American internet community of emigrées to Russia (who have been living and working there for a while), I would be happy to join and move to a place like Kaliningrad, Rostov-on-Don or soon Donetsk. But maybe someone has a few pointers?
Posted by: Nervous German | Jul 2 2022 20:52 utc | 94
Leuk @ 22
Excellent reference re: Pacifica Advocate and Apollinaire.
See the following calligraphy poem, "It's Raining": Apollinaire calligraphy poem It's Raining
Apollinaire also served in WWI in the French army - here's a link to one of his war poems, "Good God, Isn't war a lovely thing".
Good God Isn't war a lovely thing"
Posted by: Objective Observer | Jul 2 2022 20:52 utc | 95
On the attempt to place a cap on the price of oil, specifically Russia's oil. For the G-7 idiots, they can say they won't buy Russian oil at $100/bbl, or lower, which Russia won't mind at all as long as it's paid for in rubles as it's becoming clear the new export currency regime for nations on Russia's Unfriendly Nations List will need to use rubles to buy anything Russia exports, which implies that Russia won't embargo certain items as it now does. The hysteria within this article, "JP Morgan sounds alarm over oil price prospects: The bank’s analysts warn that a worst-case Russian cut will push crude to $380 per barrel," is just that--hysteria. Russia currently has plenty of friendly customers for its oil and petrochemical products with market prices providing excess profits without Russia exerting any monopsonist market power. Russia is also selling its oil to India at a steep discount which allows India to rebrand it and sell it at a markup so it can profit. There's likely some Iranian oil mixed in there too.
By placing their own price cap on what they're willing to pay for Russian oil and products, the G-7 will essentially be sanctioning themselves and stop importing Russia's products, which will harm their own economies. Russia could care less. What that will do in reality is force G-7 idiots to attempt to buy from other oil exporters, which will drive up demand for and thus the price of their products. Venezuela can say to the G-7, sure we have lots of oil you can buy at $120/bbl, but you have to pay in gold or Bolivars.
Until oil ceases to be priced in dollars, its price will continue to rise thanks to inflation. I expect that to change in the somewhat near future after the dollar's replaced as the major international commercial currency. When that change occurs, the dollar will need to be backed by some sort of collateral and won't be able to remain fiat for international usage. And at that point, the tail will finally be pinned to the donkey ending the game.
Meanwhile in Germany, there are delays with the construction of a highly anticipated LNG terminal. LNG from the U.S. ain't coming that way anyways, since the Freeport, TX export terminal still is busted and remains so indefinitely.
Confiscating other Gazprom entities in Germany will only escalate the situation.
German energy giant Uniper (1/3 utilities market share) filed for bankruptcy.
What to expect?
But... for the German government, fall and winter are still years away...
Posted by: Nervous German | Jul 2 2022 21:10 utc | 99
Posted by: Nervous German | Jul 2 2022 20:52 utc | 94
Posted by: p | Jul 2 2022 20:54 utc | 96
Yes, nice to see few people have been to Russia. '87, of course was still USSR, things were getting bad.
Western politicians, pundits and other ideologists on western media are indisputably trapped in their 80's view of a Soviet Russia falling apart..that's really true! They absolutely don't have a clue.
Posted by: ostro | Jul 2 2022 21:12 utc | 100
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More Good News.
Thanks b
Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 2 2022 16:45 utc | 1