Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 30, 2022
How China Warns Of Pelosi’s Taiwan Trip

Three days ago a mandarin speaker posted an interesting thread about the use of Chinese language phrases to express a threat.

Wen-Ti Sung @wentisung – 5:29 UTC · Jul 27, 2022

A short thread on China's #rhetoric on @SpeakerPelosi 's rumored plan to visit Taiwan. So far Beijing's wording has been far below the threshold of the kinds of words & phrases that China historically used for signaling impending war/brinkmanship.

Let's start with MFA spokesperson's recent words: "China will act strongly to resolutely respond to it and take countermeasures. We mean what we say" (中方必將採取有力措施予以堅決應對和反制。我們說到做到) Many observers take 'forceful response' to mean war. That may be overselling it. Note his key operative words '有力' can mean 'forceful' or 'effective'. If they meant war, they would have said '武力 or 非和平' (military/non-peaceful measures).

China's rhetoric is currently in say borderline 3rd gear. Another level up would be #懸崖勒馬, or "you are standing on the edge of the cliff". Translation: if you take more one step, you'll fall and die". That's unfortunate, but the cliff is a wonder of nature, not a man-made trap. So the fall is partly a tragedy of circumstance. So next levels focus on anthropogenic factors.

Next up, we have '是可忍孰不可忍', or "if we could put up with this, what else can't we put up with?". This means the perceived provocation from others not only threatens China's interests, but threatens its #identity, too. This rhetoric invokes the familiar 'century of humiliation' and Chinese nationalism narratives, and are meant to signal China has no room to back down. It shows a readiness to use #brinkmanship. E.g. China used this language before skirmishes with India (1962), Vietnam (1979).

Finally, top gear is '勿謂言之不預', literally "don't say I didn't warn you", aka 'last warning'. China used this language before skirmishes with India, Vietnam, and Soviet Union (1967).

In short, China's current language is tough but far from its toughest. It can mean either:
1) China is still deciding what to do, so they keep harsher words in reserve for now. OR
2) China is trying (not too successfully) to make it less costly for Pelosi & US to back down.

The upcoming Biden-Xi phone call will tell us whether China has made up its mind, and whether the so-called strategic '#guardrails' they have built up — precisely for containing these tactical-level turbulences from runaway escalation — are effective.

The Chinese English language readout for the Biden -Xi phone call does not use any of the above phrases. The most 'threatening' part is this:

China firmly opposes separatist moves toward “Taiwan independence” and interference by external forces, and never allows any room for “Taiwan independence” forces in whatever form. The position of the Chinese government and people on the Taiwan question is consistent, and resolutely safeguarding China’s national sovereignty and territorial integrity is the firm will of the more than 1.4 billion Chinese people. The public opinion cannot be defied. Those who play with fire will perish by it. It is hoped that the US will be clear-eyed about this.

That is a warning of self harm, not a threat of an active measure. It is thereby on a "you are standing on the edge of the cliff" level, serious but not harsh. 

But then I recognized a phrase mentioned in the above tweets when it appeared as the centerl top headline of the Global Times homepage.


bigger

Don’t say we didn’t warn you – Symposium of China’s top think tank sends classic, pre-war warning to provocative Pelosi

"Don't say we didn't warn you!" – a phrase that was used by the People's Daily in 1962 before China was forced to fight the border war with India and ahead of the 1979 China-Vietnam War, was frequently mentioned during a forum held Friday by a high-level Chinese think tank, as analysts warned that open military options and comprehensive countermeasures ranging from the economy to diplomacy from China await if US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi gambles with a visit to the Taiwan island during her Asia tour.

As far as I know the top gear phrase meaning 'last warning' has not yet been used by official government sources. But the top think tanks in China are all official, not corrupt private clubs like most U.S. think tanks are. The Global Times is the CPC's major English language outlet and it posted the phrase at the top of its homepage. Does that not in itself make it somewhat official?

The spokesperson of the Chinese military has said there would definitely be military responses to a trip. But that could be some maneuvers or fly-bys, not a war.

Pelosi is traveling in Asia on a U.S. military plane. That plane is unlikely to fly to Taiwan which is in Beijing's understanding part of China's air space. Pelosi will most likely use a civilian plane, maybe even a regular scheduled on, to fly from Singapore to Taiwan. Most likely in the middle of next week.

If the Chinese learn which flight she is on they can use a number of counter measures and/or divert the flight.

If she turns up in Taipei without intervention the Chinese government will lose some face and will have to think of other measures it can enact. Some missiles flying towards Taiwan to then drop into the sea might be a possibility. The Global Times piece above mentions others.

The visit is not necessary and risks creating a conflict that could be greatly damaging to the U.S., China and the global economy.

It is a stupid thing to do.

Comments

https://t.me/scottritterlivestreams/788
“Someone wrote in Wikipedia (RU) that Pelosi passed away on 31st July 2022 lol
The Ghost of Taiwan”
(Scott Ritter’s Telegram Channel)

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 31 2022 3:47 utc | 101

https://www.ssj.news/news/asia/2022-07-30/china-preparing-for-war-says-taiwan-will-be-where-us-shows-its-true-paper-tiger-face.php
“China: Preparing For War, Says Taiwan Will Be Where US Shows Its True Paper Tiger Face
A message posted by China’s official People’s Liberation Army (PLA) 80th Group over Pelosi’s possible visit to Taiwan stated on the Chinese social media website Weibo sai…”
(Ritter Telegram Channel again). So they will do something to make the US lose face, a very big deal in Chinese (and all Asian) culture.
I think a neat trick would be to ground all the planes after landing for inspections and she has to wait a few days to leave. If she agitates against China she might be detained for a little while and escorted out of Chinese jurisdiction to Cambodia or some such. And maybe they don’t let any military escort planes leave. Something entirely unimportant like that but significant in terms of face.
Though I still think whatever happens whenever that there will be sanctions between China and US axis and the world will be splitting for quite some time. Most likely there is an agreement on this in certain skeins of the internationalistas. The first phase of a multipolar world will be a bipolar world wherein the Western model will atrophy and new polities in line with the other Eurasian multipolar axis nations will result in a more complete multipolar world at some point. But first: divorce! A contretemps with China provides needed grounds for that divorce, going at it with Russia alone not being enough to effect the bifurcation desired.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 31 2022 3:57 utc | 102

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jul 30 2022 22:13 utc | 57
A couple of relevant paragraphs from a Global times article of July 29.
“There has been communication between China, Russia and the West. Yet, mutual trust between the two sides keeps nose-diving”

The article link:
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202207/1271726.shtml

Posted by: OhOh | Jul 31 2022 4:05 utc | 103

Just read article @The Saker entitled:
Europe Hypnotized Into War Economy…author Jorge Vilches.
Well, could there be any other explanation? Is there any other explanation?…that fits the observable situation?
What else can explain it?
The word “hypnotism” itself is invisible…as if hypnotism has within its nature a cloak of invisibility just beneath the surface of it being akin to sleep or sleepiness…that is deliberately calculated to obliterate the consciousness of anyone attempting to put further attention on it.
The entire history of Mankind might best be understood as humans sleep-walking through their lifetime…and any outliers to this view are cases of rare and remarkable awakeness…but never, ever piercing the “Do not enter” barrier characteristic of hypnotism.
Sure, there are entertainments using the superficial knowledge of hypnosis technology, but no one, to my knowledge and experience has ever ventured very deeply into the subject without in some way becoming incapacitated or otherwise stopped cold [very cold] from venturing further.
How deep is “deeply”? Far enough to fully undo the condition of being hypnotic…beyond fragments and bits and pieces that are nowhere near the core of the condition.
I know that Rockefeller funding of 3letter agency [conveniently .gov but not in fact] tried to determine the nature of the human mind..is it a thing? what is its location? how does it work? Is it same as brain? within the brain? …all to grab control of it, their own and others’.
They had made progress and put it to use in their endeavors, but they failed to progress beyond mis-use and mis-application, due to their own hypnotic nature.
As to author Vilches’ brilliant essay Europe Hypnotized Into War Economy, I suggest Mankind Hypnotized might be the true mark, but we are not able to grasp a literally overwhelming diagnosis.

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 31 2022 4:26 utc | 104

@91 “The CCP have no legitimate claim on Taiwan”
Indeed they do. And it is a very strong legal claim indeed.
The Japanese ceded the Island of Formosa to China as reparations for the war of aggression that Japan waged against them.
Granted at the time that China was ruled by the Kuomintang, but that is a political party not a sovereign entity.
When the USA changed its official recognition from the Republic of China to the Peoples Republic of China it was officially announcing that the Chinese Communist Party was the legitimate ruler of “China”, and because Imperial Japan had ceded the Island of Formosa to China….. well…. the only legitimate ruler of that island is also the Chinese Communist Party.
The current government in Taipei is – legally speaking, as we are – nothing more than a rebellion against the legitimate ruler.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 31 2022 4:52 utc | 105

“If she turns up in Taipei without intervention the Chinese government will lose some face and will have to think of other measures it can enact. Some missiles flying towards Taiwan to then drop into the sea might be a possibility. ”
Seems to me such a response would only encourage the US to still further provocations, convincing them that China is but a paper tiger after all.

Posted by: Victor | Jul 31 2022 5:03 utc | 106

Not sure about this one…apparently she switched to a C-5…
Pelosi escort plane spotted approaching Taiwan

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 31 2022 6:03 utc | 107

A lot of speculation. Civilian aircraft, or what? That’s been resolved. She’s flying on a military aircraft. Plus, she will flying in formation with military fighters and bombers.
Here’s the facts…
Nancy Pelosi is flying in a US Air Force C-40 aircraft.
It is being escorted by 15 Air Force Fighters, and one B-1 Bomber that is designed to carry nuclear tipped cruse missiles. Photo HERE.
The photo of this flight formation, was taken from a vessel of the Attack Carrier group steaming towards the Taiwan Straight. This is the American aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan and its strike group, including a guided missile destroyer and a guided missile cruiser. You can see a photo of the formation HERE. As well as the video that it was extracted from.
Flying any military aircraft into China, for any reason, is considered an “invasion” by China. Not just China, but by the entire world. So the question is…
Will the US continue it’s game of “chicken” against China, or is it going to stop?
An absolute stunning overview of the discussion between Biden and Xi Peng, by the great Robert Barnes is HERE. I strongly suggest you watch this video. He cuts through the clutter and spells the reality out in all it’s frightful disarray.
Meanwhile, Russia and China met on Thursday and are discussing “Geo-political issues”. After the meeting we have a statement from Russia that they unilaterally support China in all issues regarding Taiwan. It’s clear that Russia has “China’s Back”. You can see the video on Chinese media HERE.

Posted by: Rufus Arrr | Jul 31 2022 6:16 utc | 108

@ 108
correction…not her, maybe advance team.

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 31 2022 6:19 utc | 109

I can’t help wondering if this Pelosi Magical Mystery Tour is a half-baked attempt to deflect attention from the clumsy incompetence displayed by the January 6 inquiry.
In other words Pelosi COULD have visited Taiwan, returned to USA, and announced her trip’s successful, and sensational, completion.
But instead we’re being treated to a long, hazy, drawn-out, plotless Soap Opera with no stated objective or end point.
Meanwhile, according to PBS Newshour on Friday, more gaping holes are opening up in the ridiculously flimsy plot to blame Trump for January 6.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 31 2022 6:26 utc | 110

Rufus Arrr @ 109
Not so sure about that either. Last reported position of CVN-76 is the South China Sea. They would not have been in position to take the picture.
Oh, it is another Hal turner production. He is a pure admitted disinformation agent..
Lawyer: FBI Paid Right-Wing Blogger Charged With Threats

Posted by: circumspect | Jul 31 2022 6:32 utc | 111

@rk | Jul 30 2022 19:37 utc | 34

Latest news: beloved Robinette has covid again. Maybe Trancy has it too again.

Does anyone here still believe this BS? Raise your hands please. In April 2020 BoJo played this game, in October 2020 played the game. There have been multiple conveniences like this in sports, politics and elswhere. Now Robinette is subject to the on/off switch again.
None of this was ever real.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 31 2022 7:03 utc | 112

@Norwegian | Jul 31 2022 7:03 utc | 113
“in October 2020 played the game.”
=> “in October 2020 Trump played the game.”

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 31 2022 7:04 utc | 113

sippy the shot glass | Jul 31 2022 3:22 utc | 99
Leaving dead on the field probably was nato’s idea. Maybe bojo himself.
Because Ukr leave grenades or mines under their dead so when they are moved they explode. You can see in videos that Russians use ropes to drag dead Ukr soldiers from the mine location.
The second reason is that all dead left on the field were placed in “missing” category so the family wouldn’t get any money. It must be 60k families still thinking their lovely nazi boys are alive, waiting for them. The official deads are well below 10k, “a few per day”.
Again, attacking from top-down instead of bottom-up would be a lot more useful for Russians. You can kill each and every Ukr (nazi or not) soldier, terrorist attacks won’t stop because the leadership is perfectly intact, supported by nato with infinite money and weapons. Even if they leave for exile in US or UK, they’ll be paraded as heroes collecting billions for more terrorist attacks in Ukr and Russia, entering from Pooland and Rromania. nato can’t work Ukr without puppets, puppets must be eliminated

Posted by: rk | Jul 31 2022 7:07 utc | 114

Pelosi has a fundraising problem ==> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY9LEEvakAEDG6q?format=jpg&name=large

Posted by: too scents | Jul 31 2022 7:21 utc | 115

My guess is that the Ukronazis might shoot the plane down with high precision HIMARS attack and then blame Russia for that.

Posted by: Vesa S | Jul 31 2022 7:37 utc | 116

@karlof1 | Jul 31 2022 1:00 utc | 78

Icebreaker USN Whitehouse having encountered a very thick floe of ice is unable to break through it and is now encased within the floe. It now drifts at the mercy of winds, tide and current, directionless. And having passed the Summer maximum for insolation, the ice is growing thicker making further attempts to free the ship futile until next year’s thaw arrives.

But if the USN Whitehouse isn’t built to sustain the pressure, a more likely outcome is similar to the Endurance of the British Schackleton expedition to Antarctica in 1915.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 31 2022 7:55 utc | 117

Here in Japan where I live, the confrontation with Taiwan is all to real. The issue here is really a insular and colonialist mentality that the Amercans inherited from the British. Exceptation is a mutation of British insularity and colonialism. For Amnericans, North America is one big island which all belongs to them. This is also similar to the Japanese, who like the US have faced any real threat from abroad since the very beginning. The US expanded in through the continent building bases first and fortresses. The Japanese in the Meiji period of Empire did something similar in the South China Sea, Hokkaido, and then China. The US began buiding its presence in the Pacific with its conqauest of the Phiippines and Hawai. At the end of WWII, it established bases througout the region, not because they had any real military value but to dominate its vassal states. You can see recent articles here: https://julianmacfarlane.medium.com/a-japanese-view-of-fortress-america-6a1d679226a7
https://julianmacfarlane.medium.com/america-not-exceptional-just-insular-3eb6bcaad8d
These articles complement the recent article on Castle Europe on the Saker.

Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Jul 31 2022 8:00 utc | 118

Massively important article to the usual MOA high standards.

Posted by: Kaiama | Jul 31 2022 8:01 utc | 119

It is ironic though that the first stop of Pelosi’s trip to Taiwan happens to take place on Hawaii, an island located 2000 miles from the coasts of USA that became a state of USA approximatively at the same time Taiwan, an island located about 100 miles from the coasts of mainland China was officially claimed as a part of PRC after it was invaded then lost by Japan, but denied by the so-called international community that includes, of course, USA and, icing on the cake, that statehood of Hawaii was imposed against the will of the majority of native Hawaian, which happens to be the most used reason to denied China’s claim on Taiwan.
I don’t know if I’m clear, but you get it.
In French, we have an expression to describe that sort of behaviour, quite common in US policy (tell me about the Cuban missile crisis and Ukraine) : “Faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais” (“do as I say not as I do”)

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 8:02 utc | 120

So, the pamers-clad woman is on her way to Singapore. Then she’d visit Kuala Lumpur. Then she plans to visit Seoul, so from Kuala Lumpur to Seoul, her plane has to go near/across Taiwan. As an American, she just can’t believe she can’t just land anywhere she wants. Well, wish her Taiwan Straits as her final resting place, and feed the fish there. Poor fish!

Posted by: ppp | Jul 31 2022 8:16 utc | 121

b, often comes across as someone who believes that the West is run by intelligent people. That was in the past, when some intelligent people are in charge in some part of the collective West. That’s no more the case. The barely educated touts are in power now. So stupid things are what they excel at.

Posted by: Steve | Jul 31 2022 8:46 utc | 122

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 8:02 utc | 121
US Marine Corps Putsch on an island technically under protection of Queen Victoria and British Empire – but US is an Imperialist Nation

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jul 31 2022 9:13 utc | 123

The CCP have no legitimate claim on Taiwan. Why are we supporting the Donbas’ wish to be independent of Kiev, but not supporting Taiwan’s wish to be independent of China?
Posted by: Observer | Jul 31 2022 2:19 utc | 91

Salut,
First, there was not and is not any wish from Donbass to be independent. At the most, they’ll probably agree to become Russian, but first and foremost most of the people from Donbass were asking for autonomy and the right to live peacefully and to use their language, Russian, as it is mentioned in the Minsk Agreements that they did sign as well as the Ukrainian government who respected none of them.
Second, the life and physical integrity of Taiwanese people were never ever threatened by the PRC. The latter always adopted a position of expectation, patiently waiting for the public opinion in Taiwan to turn in favour of a reunification. Only the US gesticulations to provoke a reaction from China and the Taiwanese leadership’s will to please the White House put the people of Taiwan at risk.
Third, it is an undeniable fact that PRC’s claim to reunify with Taiwan is perfectly legitimate, whether it’s on a historical, geographical, demographic or linguistic point of view. That’s why Taiwan was never granted the status of a nation, even so it acted like it on many occasions. The only angle from which we could discuss to give Taiwan its independence is if it was given back to the aboriginal population of the island. Same goes for instance with the Overseas Departments and Territories of France.
Observer, do you really think that Taiwan will ever become independent even if China gives up its right in any way ? No, and it is very easy today to predict who would hold the leash. Just have a look at Japan.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 10:02 utc | 124

One silver lining is that if our, America’s, owners keep doubling down on their failed tactics as usual, any retaliatory Chinese embargo on the produce of the consumer-manufacturing offshored by our owners to China from the ’80s on will result in a massive reduction of fuel-use in the US and thus energy-expenditures:
Let Big Oil suck on that!

Posted by: John Kennard | Jul 31 2022 10:15 utc | 125

@ Observer | Jul 31 2022 2:19 utc | 91
The CCP have no legitimate claim on Taiwan. Why are we supporting the Donbas’ wish to be independent of Kiev, but not supporting Taiwan’s wish to be independent of China?
Very true. The CCP simply declares that a territory that once was Chinese absolutely must stay Chinese for all of eternity – even if it was acquired by force or by some unprovable political manipulation. The CCP’s strangest expansion was the build-up of those small islands in the South China Sea: China produced a 500 year old map of the region and said that this proved that these little islands were Chinese at that time. If old maps prove possession then Spain and Portugal (who produced the first reasonably correct world maps) would be the owners of a large part of the planet.

Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 10:32 utc | 126

In an official press release about Pelosi’s trip to Asia, Taiwan isn’t mentioned.
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/73122
A Taiwanese newspaper reported (in Chinese) that Pelosi is going to visit Taiwan on 4th August.
https://udn.com/news/story/122972/6501619?from=udn_ch2_menu_v2_main_index
Its source of information is a report by Radio France Internationale, which I haven’t been able to locate.

Posted by: TN | Jul 31 2022 10:42 utc | 127

Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 10:32 utc | 127
Well, I advise you, if you can’t read proper history books about that specific topic, to read the Wikipedia page about Taiwan (I suppose you know you can’t suspect Wikipedia to be compliant with the CCP). That’s what you’ll learn :
Around 6,000 years ago, Taiwan was settled by farmers, most likely from what is now southeast China.They are believed to be the ancestors of today’s Taiwanese indigenous peoples, whose languages belong to the Austronesian language family, but show much greater diversity than the rest of the family, which spans a huge area from Maritime Southeast Asia west to Madagascar and east as far as New Zealand, Hawaii and Easter Island. This has led linguists to propose Taiwan as the urheimat of the family, from which seafaring peoples dispersed across Southeast Asia and the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
Han Chinese fishermen began settling in the Penghu islands in the 13th century. Hostile tribes, and a lack of valuable trade products, meant that few outsiders visited the main island until the 16th century. During the 16th century, visits to the coast by fishermen and traders from Fujian, as well as Chinese and Japanese pirates, became more frequent.
You’ll learn also that China never forced its way to Taiwan, unlike Spanish, Dutch and Japanese did. Portugese even gave the island its Western name : Formosa. Taiwan history is irreversibly linked with China.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 10:50 utc | 128

This is pretty dangerous. China will need to answer. But if by accident something happens with a plane or Pelosi USA will be forced to respond. Hence escalation will grow.

Posted by: Alef | Jul 31 2022 10:55 utc | 129

Pelosi will find an excuse not to go to Taiwan: Covid relapse or something else that prevents to travel..

Posted by: Virgile | Jul 31 2022 11:24 utc | 130

Alef | Jul 31 2022 10:55 utc | 130
China is too agitated, they’re inexperienced. They should stay quiet, the more they scream, the easier is to fake something. Newspapers writing that the plane should be shot down is not helpful. Just move troops and weapons near Taiwan and let the enemy be worried.

Posted by: rk | Jul 31 2022 11:36 utc | 131

In the UK we have an expression: all piss and wind. I think you’ll get the gist viz a viz Pelosi’s promise to strut her arrogant arse around Taiwan. There’ll be some BS official reason why she doesn’t go. Like mushrooms sprouting from her anus or something.

Posted by: Vragtes | Jul 31 2022 11:42 utc | 132

I doubt Pelosi will set foot in Taiwan. She already stopped to mention the island amidst the different destinations of her trip.
https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1553620792390328320?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 11:46 utc | 133

@134 Will she? Won’t she? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? If a tree falls in the Forrest does it make a sound?
All very interesting questions. But are they actually important questions?
In the case of Pelosi’s little stunt the important question is this: how on earth did the policy-makers in Washington come to the conclusion that this was a sensible thing to do?
Because, you know, it isn’t.
It is crazy reckless to a degree that should be obvious to anyone who has an IQ above double-digits.
A moron who is incapable of working out how to tie their shoelace would still possess enough commonsense to know not to do this.
Yet high-level advisors in Congress and the White House must have thought about this and concluded that – f**k yeah – let’s do this, it’s a brilliant idea.
That’s the real important question: how did Washington become an idiotcracy?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 31 2022 12:18 utc | 134

A nation like Mexico or Brazil would greatly benefit by accommodating such a population.
Sam F | Jul 30 2022 18:33 utc | 18
YouR mother. disgusting imperialist

Posted by: Fernando by | Jul 31 2022 12:39 utc | 135

plenty of options for China.
-extend Chinese control over Taiwan airspace.
– bomb the runways
.
– declare no fly zone
– speak quietly to Taiwan and get them to cancel the visit
They have already declared military exercises in the strait.Not too difficult to extend it.
I suspect China will take steps to be in control of Taiwan airspace permanently. The price the US will have to pay for its arrogance.

Posted by: jiri | Jul 31 2022 13:00 utc | 136

I just paged through the first section of today’s (July 31) print edition of the Washington Post. I saw nothing in it about Pelosi’s Asia trip. Have the media been instructed not to report it?

Posted by: Lysias | Jul 31 2022 13:10 utc | 137

Posted by: rk | Jul 31 2022 11:36 utc | 132
———
Why not?
The pampers-clad woman in in Guam. But, if she tries to step in Taiwan, the plane should be blown off the sky. Actually, it’d lose the ability to fly and fall out of the sky. Oh, about the US starting another war with China is just BS. They got kicked off by Mao once, a long time ago. The US should be taught a lesson!

Posted by: ppp | Jul 31 2022 13:34 utc | 138

These trolls here who put forth the straw argument that Taiwan is NOT part of China are only playing on the ignorance of the readers.
Taiwan was conquered by the Japs after the First Sino-Jap War which resulted in the Qing dynasty’s cession of Taiwan to Japan in April 1895. Now to clear up any misunderstanding and trolling, the Qing dynasty was the last Chinese dynasty.
Taiwan was returned to China after WW2 for obvious reasons.
Here’s a US War Department documentary about China during WW2 that you will never see for obvious reasons. In it the territories of Manchuria, Mongolia, and Tibet are cleared stated by the US government as belonging to China. Very insightful video at a time when the Americans still spoke the truth.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQh7t_-NB58

Posted by: Sam Smith | Jul 31 2022 13:38 utc | 139

Like Biden, Pelosi is apparently suffering from the onset of severe cognitive decline.
She needs to retire. She’s ineffective at her job, unless her job is self-enrichment.
She’s good at that.
It is unclear whether her Asian tour will include a visit to Taiwan.
Maybe watch for something big elsewhere. Ukraine, for example.
Pelosi and China are front and center. May be a head-fake distraction.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jul 31 2022 13:41 utc | 140

Avia-pro.net are claiming that the Taiwan visit has been cancelled due to the deployment of missiles by China.

Posted by: BM | Jul 31 2022 13:48 utc | 141

I absolutely fail to see Pelosi’s reason. Maybe it is delusion, or the urge to be in the limelight. But career-wise, there’s absolutely no reason for her to make such a dangerous foreign-policy stunt.
Scotch Bingeington@39
—————————–
Pelosi urgently needs the distration because Nancy Pelosi’s husband has stirred scrutiny for years over his stock purchases while his wife Pelosi was/is privvy for internal briefings on sensitive information.
Her husband “bought more than $1 million in Nvidia, a computer chip company, just weeks before a congressional vote that would provide massive subsidies to the industry .
He cashed in on big tech shortly before the House Judiciary Committee voted to curtail the “unregulated power” of companies like Google and Amazon.
He also picked up millions of dollars worth of Microsoft stock just days before the company announced a lucrative government contract . ”
For personal benefits and winning, the US politicians are never hesitated to go extreme, even it means to go for WWIII.

Posted by: lulu | Jul 31 2022 13:59 utc | 142

@ Yeah, Right | Jul 31 2022 4:52 utc | 105
The current government in Taipei is – legally speaking, as we are – nothing more than a rebellion against the legitimate ruler.
This sort of “legitimate” claim is a claim declared by a government which wants to stay in power come hell or high water – even if a large majority of the “ruled” people do not want to be ruled by this government. It seems to me that Europe and the US are in a somewhat similar situation – would you say that “our” western governments have a valid claim against the growing uneasiness(90%)/rebellion(10%) of their populations ?

Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 14:04 utc | 143

even if a large majority of the “ruled” people do not want to be ruled by this government.
Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 14:04 utc | 145

Do you have any source that supports this statement ?

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 14:20 utc | 144

Orchard1@57
December 2020 Pompeo announced he’d visit Taiwan as State Secretary, China made the same denunciations against his provocation and China’s Ministry of Defense informed their US counterpart that PLA would intercept Pompeo’s plane should he dare to visit Taiwan.
Pompeo dropped his visit.
China has always been consistent regarding the top incumbent US officials to visit Taiwan. Don’t be fooled by Western MSM.

Posted by: lulu | Jul 31 2022 14:39 utc | 145

As far as can be told Pelosi has removed Taiwan from her itinerary. If she attempts to sneak in at end of trip she will look even more ridiculous (she already always looks ridiculous) and the Chinese response would be even greater.
China told US who is boss. US took the order. Everyone on the planet knows who won.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 31 2022 14:40 utc | 146

This was Pompous the other day:
@mikepompeo The Biden administration caving to the CCP would display very dangerous weakness. We are no one’s satellite state. This is a matter between two sovereign Nations – America and Taiwan.
https://twitter.com/mikepompeo/status/1553138741442641927

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 31 2022 14:45 utc | 147

How does a government that has legitimately ruled Taiwan for some 30 years suddenly turn into a rebellion against the legitimate government merely because the U.S. government changed its policy?

Posted by: Lysias | Jul 31 2022 14:46 utc | 148

Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 10:32 utc | 128
I agree , my school atlas showing a major part of North America being part of the USA is an old map. I guess we can take bids on who should own ex -USA then?

Posted by: Brother Ma | Jul 31 2022 14:55 utc | 149

Why is Pelosi visiting Taiwan.
CHIPS
Schumer Strips Anti-China Security Provision From Major Semiconductor Bill
https://freebeacon.com/national-security/schumer-stripped-security-measure-from-china-bill-republicans-are-furious/
The Creating Helpful Incentives to Produce Semiconductors (CHIPS) for America Act,
Extracts:
> Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) removed an anti-China security measure from a bill that invests billions of dollars in the U.S. technology sector, a move Republicans say would allow China to benefit from the spending bill and could kneecap the legislation.
> At issue are provisions written by Sen. Rob Portman (R., Ohio) that bar U.S. companies from manufacturing products in China, such as semiconductors, that were developed using federally funded research.
Myriad government and private investigations conclude that the Chinese government routinely steals trade secrets from US companies, government agencies, and universities.
> The reason Schumer removed Portman’s anti-China provision is unclear. Some say he caved to lobbying efforts from various interest groups and the White House
> Even if it passes, the lack of meaningful guardrails against the Chinese raise grave questions about whether a bill initially meant to counter China may backfire.
> The CHIPS Act puts a staggering $250 billion for domestic science investment and education, making it the largest domestic industrial investment scheme in U.S. history.
>Republicans say … the United States is losing its technological edge to China on such critical goods as semiconductors, … (but the bill) could end up benefiting adversaries.
> Legislators are talking about pouring hundreds of billions into industry subsidies and federal R&D, ostensibly to strengthen American competitiveness and to compete with China,
>…Spending that level of taxpayer dollars without meaningful safeguards to ensure they don’t end up in Beijing’s hands—either through Chinese Communist Party espionage, corporate malfeasance, or inept bureaucrats—would be a colossal mistake.”
>………the lack of guardrails means several Senate offices that were potential “Yes” votes on the CHIPS Act are working behind the scenes to tank it. Other senators, such as Marco Rubio (R., Fla.), are pushing for new guardrail provisions
> America needs to make things again, especially critical chips and other tech, but we need to do it in a way that benefits our country and our workers,” Rubio said.
“Unless we add meaningful safeguards in this package, we should call this for what it is: the China Investment Bill.”
Pelosi is deep into the Chips deal, with her husband’s trading being in the spotlight.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 31 2022 15:09 utc | 150

@ xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 14:20 utc | 146
Do you have any source that supports this statement ?
I think that for Europe/US/Canada the discussions here on MoA are evidence enough of peoples uneasy with their governments.
As to Taiwan my guess is that Taiwan has lived for some time without the CCP’s social credit system where the only allowed “truth” is defined by Xinhua (which means “true words” i.e. this is the Chinese “Pravda”) and that the Taiwanese prefer their current government. And basically I don’t think that a government’s desire to boss a population is a “legal” reason to do so.

Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 15:18 utc | 151

Posted by: chu teh | Jul 30 2022 23:23 utc | 65
just some trivia. Szilard and Bohr were also Jewish. Shannon ,Hahn and Fermi were not , but Fermi had a Jewish wife.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Jul 31 2022 15:23 utc | 152

preading digital yuan
Posted by: Eighthman | Jul 31 2022 1:29 utc | 83
It’s happening already with demonstration projects: domestic, limited markets, mostly .gov transfer payments, “organic” adoption at POS since 2019. Note: China was first to ban CIOs in ’18 G7 and completed regulation of crypto trading this year, ie. banning offshore mines. China has approved limited-purpose blockchain depositories, ie. legal documents. China also is also operating a quantum secuirty network (000s km fiber optic) between .gov, .edu installations.
That said, Union Pay debit circulation is huge in major markets (vs rural); and for all intents and purposes, otherwise indistinguishable from “digital currency” transmittals for interbank clearing/settlement (anywhere on the planet), ie. ATM, ACH, SWIFT. Conversely, RU (MIR) and IN (IN) integration with Union Pay is G7’s worst case “de-dollarization”, de-centralized fintech scenario. [MUH FEE revenue! MUH FX spreads!]
BUT G7 presses have noted this development with alarm [deriding AUTHORITARIAN surveillance tied to COVID-19 tracking since ’20, “social credit,” and “zero tolerance” public health policy], while equivocating how best to copy policy and tech — without regulating open market cryptocurrency [MUH “stablecoin” collapsed] or introducing digital ID [MUH privacy rights!]

Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 31 2022 15:38 utc | 153

Pelosi is deep into the Chips deal, with her husband’s trading being in the spotlight.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 31 2022 15:09 utc | 152
If I understood the text in your post aright, US is opening up two-way chip market to China?
And Pelosi is into the deal.
But she is also heavily supported by ROC relatives living in her district with many Taiwanese back-and-forth connections I gather.
In any case, it sounds like her visit has more to do with chip business and related politicking than geopolitical shenanigans per se. Maybe they can make a killing on a chips play and use it to fund their family member Newsome’s campaign for the WH…
Just another American robber baron family…

Posted by: Scorpion | Jul 31 2022 15:50 utc | 154

Posted by: Brother Ma | Jul 31 2022 15:23 utc | 154

Your mentioning Fermi’s wife reminds me of her book Atoms in the Family, which I heartily recommend.

Posted by: David Levin | Jul 31 2022 16:04 utc | 155

I think that for Europe/US/Canada the discussions here on MoA are evidence enough of peoples uneasy with their governments.
Posted by: Question Mark | Jul 31 2022 15:18 utc | 153

If I agree with your previous statement about Western governments, to me it looks like you were talking about Chinese government in your original sentence, about which I asked proof for :

This sort of “legitimate” claim is a claim declared by a government which wants to stay in power come hell or high water – even if a large majority of the “ruled” people do not want to be ruled by this government.

This clearly speaks about China and not about any Western government.
The so-called social credit bullshit is becoming a western urban legend.
Chinese never said they want to “boss Taiwan”. On the contrary they were patiently waiting for 70 years for the Taiwanese population to be in favour of reunification and that the only reason for things to escalate recently is USA’s littles schemes.
As for asking the population of Taiwan about the reunification, neither you nor I can predict the result of a potential referendum. Don’t be so sure though since Taiwan is about to realise how unreliable and even backstabbing as a partner the US government is.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 16:04 utc | 156

errata
IN (IN) s/b IN (ECS). RBI integration with RU, CN will be the last link in the chain, although it’s recently made some moves to float INR FX, establish limited purpose CN, RU interbank settlement for government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs), and open a gold depository facility. RBI regulation is no where near as sophisticated as RF and CN; the real economy is pretty much all cash, INR demand is anaemic, and domestic tender is infested with counterfeits. You may recall the shock ‘n’ awe confiscation op, 2016-2017, billed by BBC as the 86% WIPE OUT

Posted by: sln2002 | Jul 31 2022 16:04 utc | 157

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Jul 31 2022 16:04 utc | 158

As for asking the population of Taiwan about the reunification, neither you nor I can predict the result of a potential referendum. Don’t be so sure though since Taiwan is about to realise how unreliable and even backstabbing as a partner the US government is.

We will be amazed (not) that the Taiwanese will vote overwhelmingly in favor of reunification once China steps up her military moves. People like to go with winners. Current Taiwanese leaders are like the Ukies . . . extremely incompetent and full of themselves.

Posted by: Sam Smith | Jul 31 2022 16:22 utc | 158

Norwegian @119–
I thought about going further with the tale into that possibility but the Russian aspect seemed best since its icebreaker fleet is the absolute tops. But I concur, without help the ship is so weak that its hull will likely be crushed and when the thaw comes it will sink.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 31 2022 16:43 utc | 159

If anyone out there still reads books and is interested in the way, over the last two hundred years, that the imperial West, with its tin ear, has unerringly failed to understand what China is saying to it, I would recommend Lydia Liu’s book “The Clash of Empires: the invention of China in modern world making”. It is a bit academic, with the usual jargon, but the underlying message is compelling.

Posted by: Sarcophilus | Jul 31 2022 17:36 utc | 160

I wonder if Paul Pelosi is happy with all the attention his wife is getting? It could have a negative effect on their investment strategy.

Posted by: dh | Jul 31 2022 18:17 utc | 161

In response to

As far as can be told Pelosi has removed Taiwan from her itinerary. If she attempts to sneak in at end of trip she will look even more ridiculous (she already always looks ridiculous) and the Chinese response would be even greater.
China told US who is boss. US took the order. Everyone on the planet knows who won.
Posted by: oldhippie | Jul 31 2022 14:40 utc | 148

Even Reuters is admitting that Taiwan is not being included as part of Pelosi’s Asian tour now.
I don’t think the war is over but empire is losing badly it seems. I suspend belief that the revolution will be successful until I see white flags over the US Fed private regional banks and the City of London Corp.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 1 2022 1:15 utc | 162

To add to 141, in the 1600s the Portuguese and Dutch tried to colonize Taiwan but were kicked out by the Ming. Taiwan was one of the last Ming holdouts after the Manchus established the Qing dynasty in 1636. In 1683, Shi Lang (施琅), a Qing general, crossed the Taiwan Straits, defeated the Ming loyalists and unified Taiwan.
Indeed, before she was unveiled, one favorite name among netizens for China’s first aircraft carrier is Shi Lang. The message behind the name is obvious to anybody who knows this part of Chinese history.
As time went on the Qing grew decadent and weak, and lost of a series of wars with western imperialist powers. Taiwan was ceded to Japan in 1895 after such a war. That’s why, at the end of WW2, Taiwan was returned to China, the rightful owner.

Posted by: Xiao Ma Dongxue | Aug 1 2022 1:58 utc | 163

Regardless of what happens or where she goes, Nancy Pelosi’s flight is a symbolic crossing of the Rubicon.
There is no turning back in a broader geopolitical sense. The bell cannot be unrung.
Pelosi has symbolically opened a Pandora’s Box that will unleash forces that America and its stooges cannot contain and will be consumed by.
For instance, it should be noted that there are several nations within the United States and its QUAD allies themselves that China would do well to materially support and advocate for.
In America, there is a significant Hawaiian independence movement, as well the “Land Back” movement calling for Indigenous control over the lands that are currently occupied by the United States (and Canada).
Meet the native Hawaiians fighting U.S. occupation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBokfBwYJo0
https://www.nationofhawaii.org/
In Japan, Okinawa is essentially a nation that serves as a glorified joint American-Japanese military outpost, with the resulting environmental, societal, and even sexual depredations.
In Australia, the oppression of Aboriginal nations is well documented and unrelenting.
In India, there are many nations like Kashmir, Khalistan, and Nagaland that would likely benefit from greater material support from certain neighboring countries.
There is an old saying that what goes around comes around.
America and its “democratic” allies will learn this dictum the hard way.
That is the only language that they understand.
The only one.

Posted by: ak74 | Aug 1 2022 2:21 utc | 164

Pepe Escobar: “Taiwanese media – TVBS and China Times – separately, report that Schemin’ Nancy will arrive in Taipei TOMORROW EVENING.”
I still maintain that if Pelosi has to ‘sneak’ into Taipei, it will be an embarrassment to the USA – kind of like when Cheney had to sneak into Baghdad despite the American occupation.

Posted by: Maracatu | Aug 1 2022 11:08 utc | 165

Prime Minister of Singapore emphasized the importance of stable relations between the United States and China for regional peace and security.
Ronald Reagan moved near Luzon

Posted by: rk | Aug 1 2022 12:19 utc | 166

Whatever else may come of Pelosi’s Peregrinations, it certainly is a handy distraction from the plentiful other political crises going on. I can’t see how it is going to help hold onto the Congress in November though.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 1 2022 12:59 utc | 167

Multiple stories this morning about Pelosi visiting Taiwan after all. Given that different stories identify different exact times none of it is believable. I called the story yesterday @148 above.
More basically everyone expects that US will be involved in treachery, subterfuge, skulduggery. That US should be honest and straightforward is not even a thought.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 1 2022 13:22 utc | 168

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 1 2022 13:22 utc | 171
Whatever transpires, China will ensure the Empire of Lies loses face.
This in turn will demonstrate that they are no longer Master in Asia.
Mainly symbolic but Huge Big League.

Posted by: Scorpion | Aug 1 2022 13:43 utc | 169

Posted by: grapes | Jul 30 2022 17:46 utc | 2
Except that nuclear weapons have been decreed forbidden and against Islamic teaching in Iran, and that Iran has stated repeatedly and categorically that they do not intend to produce such weapons.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Aug 1 2022 13:49 utc | 170

Posted by: grapes | Jul 30 2022 19:42 utc | 36
I still call bollocks on your assertion. Iran likely has enough missiles of conventional type to simultaneously overcome “Iron Dome” and destroy Israel, as well as most US military infrastructure in the Middle East.
Furthermore, they do respect a fatwa.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Aug 1 2022 14:11 utc | 171

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 31 2022 14:45 utc | 149
Re: Pompeo.
Since the 1913 creation of the Federal Reserve, the USA has been a satellite state of the banking houses of UK, Germany, and hence Basel, Switzerland.
He may have “lied, cheated, and stole”, but his understanding of US 20th century history is straight from the back of a box of Cheerios.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Aug 2 2022 3:51 utc | 172

I don’t know why we care about Taiwan. Sure, it’s “democratic,” but so what? Does Captain DIY, the USA, really want any foreign nation to control 54% of the second most critical industry to civilization (next to oil, of course)? No, but we really don’t want the Chi-coms to subsume Taiwan and control 75%. So therein lies the USA’s real love affair with “free” Taiwan. Far be it from conceivable that the West just make its own damn microchips. My chip designer friend literally cranks out prototypes in minutes in his basement lair with equipment that cost his company only $30 for him to also build himself. Yet he still spends 4 months a year in China and its “Province” to ensure the crap engineers there don’t totally screw up his schematics. He let me sit in once on a conference call with these bozos. Soon into the call he caught them in a lie, and they suddenly started pretending they couldn’t speak English. Before the call, he actually predicted they would “forget English” because they apparently did it every time he confronted their incompetence, which was apparently at every meeting! I laughed hard into a pillow. So again, I ask rhetorically and more generally: why are we up-to-our-necks dependent on childish, lazy, incompetent Chinese manufacturers?

Posted by: Tom SteChatte | Aug 2 2022 18:29 utc | 173

Finally, top gear is ‘勿謂言之不預’, literally “don’t say I didn’t warn you”, aka ‘last warning’. China used this language before skirmishes with India, Vietnam, and Soviet Union (1967).

How peaceful and non bullying this CCP’s PLA; a few dozens or hundreds of neighbor country’s soldiers dead and/or imprisoned for years. Not yet as bad as the US MICIMATT but getting there slowly…
Not (yet) a problem if your country is not bordering on mainland China.

Posted by: Antonym | Aug 5 2022 10:34 utc | 174