Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 26, 2022

Bellingcat Denies Ukrainian Officials Responsible For Failed Plot - Zelenski Promptly Fires Them

A few hours after the revelations about the failed Ukrainian secret operation to hijack Russian fighter airplanes were published, Bellingcat's lead Russia investigator Christo Grozev added a few more flimsy excuses for his deep involvement in the failed clandestine scheme:

Christo Grozev @christogrozev - 14:52 UTC · Jul 25, 2022

An important P.S. based on questions from readers.
The Ukrainian operation was not a project of either SBU or GUR. (If it were, there'd be no way we would - or want to - get access to it). It was organized by maverick ex operatives whom we got to know in the Wagner investigation.

So all the Russian statements from today - claiming this was a "GUR" (Military Intel) operation "with support from NATO" - total, unadulterated bollocks. The whole of the FSB CI were fighting tooth and nail against a bunch of, essentially, volunteers. And not for the first time.

Ah. Sure. The following is just a weird 'unadulterated bollocks' coincidence ...

Russians With Attitude @RWApodcast - 16:27 UTC · Jul 25, 2022

Zelensky has removed Ruslan Demchenko from his position as First Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council & dismissed Grigoriy Galagan as commander of the AFU Special Operations Forces, replacing him with Viktor Horenko

---
Erik Zimerman @ZimermanErik - 1:39 UTC · Jul 26, 2022

[...] After the release of this information, we learned of two high level dismissals in the Ukrainian government. #Zelensky fired the First Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Ruslan Demchenko. As part of the Council, which among other tasks coordinates security matters and advises the president, he very well may have been involved in clandestine matters such as this operation. He also worked as deputy minister of foreign affairs.

Perhaps more tellingly Zelensky also fired the commander of Special Operations Forces (SSO), Hryhoriy Halahan. Until 2016 these units were under the Chief Directorate of Intelligence (HUR / GUR), and so are highly correlated with this kind of operation. The SSO includes psychological warfare units and can be regarded as special forces (Spestnaz) of military intelligence. An operation such as the one Bellingcat and Christo Grozev, aiming at the defection of Russian pilots and their planes to Ukraine, would be right up the alley of the SSO.

More of Erik Zimerman's interesting thoughts about the case can be found here and here.

The whole thing wasn't Mr. Grozev's first foray into making stuff up to further a false narrative. Here is a video documenting previous dishonest behavior by him:

Bellingcat Scams MH17 Warplane Witness

Posted by b on July 26, 2022 at 7:05 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Grosev got caught with his pants down so he lit them on fire.

Posted by: Deepfake | Jul 26 2022 7:16 utc | 1

What a farce. The fact this is a central element of the Anglosphere deep states reveals how far things have declined.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Jul 26 2022 7:38 utc | 2

This smells of MI6 and Brits. It is their way of doing things - dirty "clever" propaganda stuns while they are getting their a**ess kicked in all the things that really matters. Or as they say, sore losers.

Posted by: Abe | Jul 26 2022 7:46 utc | 3

It is not for nothing that most here give RF the benefit of the doubt in all things even vaguely Ukraine-related and, increasingly, in all things generally.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jul 26 2022 7:50 utc | 4

this was as badly managed as the Skripal affair. it does stink of MI6.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 26 2022 7:55 utc | 5

When the SBU failed in 2020 in its attempted kidnapping of those former soldiers whom they fooled into travelling to Minsk, Zelensky distanced himself from that operation. It was reported at the time that he called the whole thing off as soon as he heard about it, but that story was more likely just damage control after the Russians uncovered the operation. It would not be surprising though if he was kept in the dark by the SBU about that operation.

The same thing could have happened in the latest hare-brained SBU scheme, but this time Zelensky has more power and he was able to fire some high-ranking officials.

Posted by: Brendan | Jul 26 2022 8:04 utc | 6

Bellingcat was founded by MI6 to pose as a competitor to Wikileaks while publishing British & US intelligence propaganda. This has been glaringly obvious since it launched. A bootstrapped grassroots news organization doesn't have six figures to spend on a superfluous logo designed by the same agency (Pentagram, the most expensive branding agency on the planet) that designed Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign and some of the most famous brands in the world.

Posted by: Francis | Jul 26 2022 8:05 utc | 7

@exiled off mainstree | Jul 26 2022 7:38 utc | 2

---

For amusement try this URL ==> https://www.google.com/search?q=Grozev+site:.uk&tbs=qdr:d

The UK is beyond bonkers.

Posted by: too scents | Jul 26 2022 8:24 utc | 8

The MH17 false flag is not going away.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 8:37 utc | 9

It is very interesting how the English Wikipedia article on Bellingcat completely removes any reference to any criticism of it whatsoever. Looking under the Talk tab for the article reveals why this is so: the article is carefully policed by some kind of activist editors to prevent any negative word about Bellingcat from appearing. This is quite contrary to the practice on many other topics, where a section of criticism of the subject is often included. Such a section could entirely legitimately cite the published criticism of Bellingcat, which is a lot, without actually endorsing it, but, oh no, the editors can't allow a single negative word to get through and even delete comments from the Talk page. This illustrates a weakness in the whole Wikipedia idea, as on Bellingcat it is certainly nothing but imperialist propaganda. The article also ought to mention at least that Bellingcat has a particular political stance, but that is also elided.

Interestingly, Russian Wikipedia on Bellingcat, in a much shorter article, also gives little criticism of Bellingcat but at least provides three statements from critics. While this is still thin, it is way better than the disgusting English propaganda piece. I would suppose, though I do not know, that English editors do not intrude into the editing in other languages, but since I don't know, I am also suspicious of that point.

This does make me a little more suspicious of Wikipedia. Like everything else Internet related, caveat emptor. While it is generally excellent in giving up-to-date news about modern celebrities and often has useful articles on European history, I did notice earlier that its coverage of Islam and Muslim topics, at least on English Wikipedia, is very, very poor and characterized by interventions of very biased people with agendas of various stripes, some of these coming from the western imperialist side and others having sectarian axes internal to Islam which they grind very loudly.

Posted by: Cabe | Jul 26 2022 9:06 utc | 10

Also, I wonder why the Russian FSB should be taking the lead on the Russian side, as alleged by Bellingcrap. The FSB is the civilian agency. Any Ukrainian operation targeting active pilots would certainly alert the GRU first, the military intelligence agency.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jul 26 2022 9:15 utc | 11

Wikipedia has been slowly compromised by the War Party over the last decade.

Posted by: Exile | Jul 26 2022 9:29 utc | 12

A video where the Russian pilot goes over the scheme SBU approached him with to defect with his jet (including pointing out where the ukrop AA was) and the response
It's a real tragic comedy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxBXFi2bj44

Posted by: leaf | Jul 26 2022 9:46 utc | 13

I've only just heard that Eliot Higgins has retired as Bellingcat CEO to make way for Grozev. I remember when Bellingcat first appeared on the scene in 2014, supporting nefarious tales about Assad's chemical weapons, and when Bellingcat was raked over the coals by Theodore Postol. It was the first time I seriously considered the possibility that MI6 was behind both this and the Syrian (actually Turkish) White Helmets, also launched a few months earlier by James LeMesurier, who died conveniently accidentally 3 days after Maria Zakharova annouunced that he was a former MI6 agent.

But Higgins has left the scene. Wiki says "From 2016 until early 2019, Higgins was a senior fellow in the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab and Future Europe Initiative projects." Hard to see what this paragon of citizen reporting is up to now. Perhaps retired to live on his earnings from the deep state?

Posted by: TPaine | Jul 26 2022 9:46 utc | 14

I was at my dacha on 17th July 2014 and witnessed two fighter jets heading NE in the early afternoon. They flew very low and fast so the best I could see and hear was once they were "on me" and receeding into the distance. I did not understand the significance until 2 days later when I arrived home and my wife told me what had happened. On YT at the time there were videos of some women who witnessed the attack on the airliner from fighter jets. I knew then that I had seen the attackers.

Posted by: Bluedog57 | Jul 26 2022 9:55 utc | 15

i met elliot years ago at the time he was calling himself benjamins with an s i did find it odd at the time funny that.
some folks said he was a queer fellow but i did not see any proofs of impropriety whatsoever whatever ways you spell it queer that is.
even back then he had a hard on for ukrainia he would often quote and sing songs from the movie topol fiddler on the ruth a film about khazarian traditions that still tesla resonates today.

what elliot says really is real like debka file and rita katz site intel group barbera lerner spector oded yinon is it not my life already.
bellingcat was named after belling the cat who long ago sat on elliot benjamins baby belling cooker which was situated next to elliots bed
lucky cat.
with the cuming russian gas apocolypta electric baby belling cats are more vital than ever

Posted by: norman wisdom | Jul 26 2022 10:04 utc | 16

Scotch Bingeington ( Jul 26 2022 9:15 utc | 11 ):
Interesting observation but does the GRU do this kind of counterintelligence? I always thought of them as more technical in nature.

In the USSR I think it would have been the KGB in most cases so thus FSB now but maybe not?

Anyone else have anything to add on this?

- - -

(OT again, this time Wikipedia)

A "quick reference" and certainly not "arbiter of truth" and yes be critical. In all directions please —I know it's hard and asking too much (I fail too).

Same with any encyclopedia including the British one which Wikipedia mostly replaced and all the other various national ones.

Compare, if you will, with both the genuine use and the limitations of any dictionary, or as another example; any automated translation services (Deepl pissed me off yesterday lol, when I write "hell" I don't mean "the devil" no matter how much more common it may be as a German expression).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 26 2022 10:07 utc | 17

@Cabe #10

Wikipedia is for political and historical subjects unuseable. Here is an excerpt from an article by Caitlyn Johnstone about the "lie factory". Quote:

Former U.K. ambassador Craig Murray has flagged the fact that Wikipedia’s imperialist narrative manager “Philip Cross” has made dozens of edits to Le Mesurier’s Wiki page since his death. Cross, who I’ve reported on previously, has made a more-than-full-time job of constantly managing the Wikipedia pages of both pro-establishment and anti-establishment media figures in a very pro-establishment slant; an article by Five Filters which you can read by clicking here documents how the “Philip Cross” account has been working morning to night with precisely zero days off toward this endeavor.

Posted by: OttoE | Jul 26 2022 10:09 utc | 18

forgot the link #18

Posted by: OttoE | Jul 26 2022 10:11 utc | 19

@Cabe | Jul 26 2022 9:06 utc | 10

It is very interesting how the English Wikipedia article on Bellingcat completely removes any reference to any criticism of it whatsoever. Looking under the Talk tab for the article reveals why this is so: the article is carefully policed by some kind of activist editors to prevent any negative word about Bellingcat from appearing. This is quite contrary to the practice on many other topics, where a section of criticism of the subject is often included.

No, this is the way Wikipedia has been corrupted. It works the same way for many topics, and it has been that way since 'forever'. For example on 'climate science':

https://climateaudit.org/2009/12/19/climategatekeeping-wikipedia/
Lawrence Solomon has an interesting column in the National Post today on William Connolley’s climategatekeeping role at Wikipedia. See also an article last year.

Connolley was one of the nine realclimate founders, but posted little at realclimate. This has notoriously not been the case at Wikipedia. Solomon reports that Connolley “created or rewrote 5,428 unique Wikipedia articles” and that Connolley was granted a senior editorial and administrative status at Wikipedia that enabled him to delete “over 500 articles” and “barred” more than 2000 Wikipedia contributors who “ran afoul of him”.

The situation with Bellingcat should surprise nobody, this is how Wikipedia is being exploited for propaganda purposes.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 10:26 utc | 20

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 8:37 utc | 9

I'm sorry I cannot remember where I read it, but there was some contention that MH17 was in fact an attempt (by Ukraine AFU) to bring down Vladimir Putin's plane.

Apparently they both were on a W-E flight path at the time, and were both adorned with loosely similar livery.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jul 26 2022 10:43 utc | 21

@Jon_in_AU | Jul 26 2022 10:43 utc | 21

It comes up often, e.g. last time this issue was mentioned here at MOA. I see such claims as mostly a distraction from the real issue: The attack on Malaysian Airlines (twice), murder of innocent passengers, trying to put the blame on Russia to create a casus belli situation.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 11:11 utc | 22

@Bluedog57 | Jul 26 2022 9:55 utc | 15

Very interesting, thank you for that.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 11:13 utc | 23

Christo Grozev's role in this operation makes me wonder if Bellingcat was also involved in setting up the trap for Roman Protasevich.

Bellingcat now say they "got to know maverick ex operatives" when doing their "Wagner investigation". I wondered why they were so ready ready to admit that the attempted kidnapping of the Russian mercenaries in Minsk was a Ukrainian plot. Christo Grozev was the first to see the similarities between the Protasevich operation and the Russian mercenaries operation. When I read that, I immediately understood that my initial analysis accusing Lukashenko was all wrong!

Remember, that Bellincat also coordinated with the Syrian terrorist to stage the Douma chlorine hoax.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 26 2022 11:24 utc | 24

@Norwegian #20

The manipulation you point to is scandalous, indeed. By picking this example, you do, however, no favour to the subject of 'climate science' (sure I noticed your elevated commas), unless you are convinced it is a hoax and deserves it. If so, please try to get more input and think about it.

For starters,

(1)The Fake Scandal of Climategate
(2) Los Alamos Study Group (my fafourite disarmamemt initiative) Bulletin 280

Climate is just one aspect of our predicament. According to a review by 17 leading biologists of 150 prior studies, a "ghastly future of mass extinction ... awaits us because ... even well-informed experts are failing to grasp the extent of threats posed by biodiversity loss and the climate crisis."

Posted by: OttoE | Jul 26 2022 11:37 utc | 25

Bellingcat's lead Russia investigator Christo Grozev, a Bulgarian, from the traitor Bulgaria! Tells all!
Good that Bulgaria was blocked first from Russian natural gas!

Posted by: ostro | Jul 26 2022 11:49 utc | 26

Once again: look for the date of creation of bellingcat, aka mi6 special office.

Posted by: Olivier | Jul 26 2022 12:05 utc | 27

@OttoE | Jul 26 2022 11:37 utc | 27

Thank you for the consideration. I have so far spent 15 years collecting input and assessing the evidence. Since you are well versed in these issues you will know that the site you link to was created by the cartoonist John Cook, who likes to dress up in Nazi uniform.

The Wikipedia manipulation in several areas is grotesque and should give people reason to consider the fact that political motives are the dominating driving forces in supposedly non-political areas.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 12:14 utc | 28

@OttoE | Jul 26 2022 11:37 utc | 27

Thank you for the consideration, I have spent 15 years so far on that issue so far, I am sure you have spent much more. I am therefore confident you know that the site you linked to was created by the cartoonist John Cook, known to dress up in a peculiar way, as evidenced by his own photos. I suppose it blends in seamlessly in Ukraine.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 12:20 utc | 29

This smells of MI6 and Brits. It is their way of doing things - dirty "clever" propaganda stuns while they are getting their a**ess kicked in all the things that really matters. Or as they say, sore losers.

Posted by: Abe | Jul 26 2022 7:46 utc | 3

Yes, stinks of the British, or the Izzies, and their depraved imaginations. USA-ians tend to want to bomb or shoot something in these situations. Different tools at hand, I suppose./sarcasm

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 26 2022 12:24 utc | 30

Posted by: Exile | Jul 26 2022 9:29 utc | 12

Wikipedia has been slowly compromised by the War Party over the last decade.

Wikipedia became highly politicized 15 years ago, after the NATO attack on the Bronze Soldier of Tallinn. Actually, I see those events as the start of the current information war between Russia and the West.

I was closely following the events with my journalist friend in Tallinn. I edited the article on the Bronze Soldier and uploaded photographs I had take a year before. I soon stared being harassed by a troll from Estonia who had nothing to contribute except systematically reverting my edits. After he published his first two-line stub article I gave up an abandoned East European topics. While I was away from Wikipedia for real-life reasons, the Wikipedia cabal banned me for a year.

The Estonian troll went on to start his own disinformation cabal targeting East European topics. Unexpectedly, their whole email server was leaked to Wikileaks. See the Wikipediametric archive on Wikileaks. The secret group was conspiring to harras me and Russavia from Australia. Russavia was later banned from Wikipedia for starting the article on Polandball. 😆😅😂🤣

"Digwuren", the Estonian founder of the Wikipediametric group, ended up with an IT job at Google. Some of the other members created a hoax about a fake Nazi death camp in Poland. See:

The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Wikipedia’s Longest Hoax, Exposed

On the grander scale of the things, the current Novorossiya project is a direct continuation of the "Night Watch" group of Tallinn, active in 2006-2007. Night Watch were a group of anti-fascists, protecting the Bronze Soldier from destruction.


Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 26 2022 12:36 utc | 31

To recap, the genius MI6 operation's key achievements:

-Russia received classified intel on how to not only evade Ukrainian Anti Air, but the locations of its assets

-Subsequent destruction of said AA assets

-Disclosing the identity of numerous Ukrainian assets and their methods

-Losing the money intended for the pilots for an operation that never happened

-Public humiliation of MI6 and SBU

-Public admission of Bellincat involvement, exposing its role in Intel operations beyond just a mis/disinformation role

-The removal of several high ranking Ukrainian officials

LMFAO

Posted by: Et Tu | Jul 26 2022 13:06 utc | 32

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 11:11 utc | 22

The attack on Malaysian Airlines (twice), murder of innocent passengers, trying to put the blame on Russia to create a casus belli situation.

There is a second key motive which likely played a role in the attacks on Malaysian Airlines flights.


Malaysia belongs to the category of states resisting neoliberal capitalism and the Anglo- American claim to global governance, perhaps more so under former Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad than today. In November 2011, it incurred the wrath of the Western powers after the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal, in a trial that had taken two years, unanimously arrived at the verdict that Tony Blair and George W. Bush by their decision to invade Iraq were guilty of crimes against the peace, crimes against humanity, and genocide. The judges ruled that the names of Bush and Blair be inscribed in the register of war criminals kept by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission and that the verdict be reported to the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

SOURCE:
Flight MH17, Ukraine and the new Cold War
Kees van der Pijl
Page 116

A third issue also introduced by Pijl is that Malaysian Airlines was a lead customer for Russian civil aircraft intended to compete with both Boeing 703 and Airbus A-320 narrow body passenger jets.

Posted by: Sushi | Jul 26 2022 13:08 utc | 33

Document about the m17 crash sites:

https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/edia/attachment/2018/7/10/debcd724fe7breport_mh17_crash.pdf

Courtesy by John Helmer

Posted by: Olivier | Jul 26 2022 13:16 utc | 34

@Sushi | Jul 26 2022 13:08 utc | 35

Yes, I agree on the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal motive, I have posted on it before. As you indicate, there are also other motives. In the MH370 case there were Chinese patent owners of Freescale Semiconductors who disappeared. These 'events' filled a mixed bag of motives.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 14:08 utc | 35

@Norwegian #31
Yes, I spent some years on the subject; Emphasis on the health implications of pollutants, though. The physics of greenhouse gases are clear. Any denial of that is ignorant and cynical. Same for the historical (including prehistoric times) record-breaking speed of man-made concentration increase in the atmosphere, and the time constants of the planet for a recovery. Both physics and recovery time point towards risks which are equal to, if not worse, the aftermath of a nuclear war. This is the ONLY parallel I see to the Ukraine (war) you introduce in this discussion.
No I'm not aware of the fact you mention. It's not relevant, however. If someone is found dressing up funny, it points in 2 direction: His taste deviates from the mainstream, and/or a shallow if not somewhat entitled taste of the easy to entertain/upset onlooker(s). For me, nothing to get excited about. I remember Dr Matt Taylor from ESA giving an interview in a kinky shirt. And on Redbubble, there's even a whole section of "Science Geek's Clothing". Boy, these things are NORMAL to me.

Posted by: OttoE | Jul 26 2022 14:46 utc | 36

@OttoE | Jul 26 2022 14:46 utc | 39

Fine, you ignore arguments and go ad-hominem. That makes things very simple. The readers here can make up their mind.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 15:40 utc | 37

Brendan #6 "When the SBU failed in 2020 in its attempted kidnapping of those former soldiers whom they fooled into travelling to Minsk"

i can't recall this, any links?

Posted by: annie | Jul 26 2022 15:48 utc | 38

Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 15:40 utc | 40

Point out the exact attack against YOU, personally, that constitutes an ad-hominem, or admit to the world that "you" is nothing more than your property relations, and that you as a human being are of zero value.

Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Jul 26 2022 16:13 utc | 39

@OttoE #39

You said

Yes, I spent some years on the subject; Emphasis on the health implications of pollutants, though.

You mean garbage like this?
Air quality of life index report says air pollution worse than smoking - wapo.com

Breathing is more dangerous than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol.

That’s according to the latest report from the Energy Policy Institute at the University of Chicago, which says that air pollution now takes more than two years off the global average life expectancy — more than cigarettes, alcohol, or conflict and terrorism.

This is utter garbage because clearly the report doesn't consider the positive effects on life expectancy of greater energy use. China's life expectancy was going up continuously as its pollution problem grew - I was in Beijing in 1984 and remember clearly the fug of coal smoke permeating everything; Beijing at its worst was not much worse than that. Clean air is good, but clean air at the price of poverty is bad.

The physics of greenhouse gases are clear. Any denial of that is ignorant and cynical.

Wrong. The physics of greenhouse gases is not the primary driver of doom-mongering climate change theory - it is the theory that net climate feedback is positive and thus self-reinforcing. This is NOT clear in the least.

Same for the historical (including prehistoric times) record-breaking speed of man-made concentration increase in the atmosphere, and the time constants of the planet for a recovery. Both physics and recovery time point towards risks which are equal to, if not worse, the aftermath of a nuclear war.

More garbage.

The historical records clearly show the 1930s as being far hotter in every single way than today. All of the present US and European hottest temperature times/locations were before 1940.

Climate change being worse than nuclear war is garbage piled on top of garbage: two dueling fantasies based on the same grade of crap modeling.

The only cynicism is the use of climate change doom to force austerity on poor people everywhere:
Let Them Eat Carbon - thebreakthrough.org

Entrenching Poverty by Limiting Fossil Fuel Investment Won’t Solve Climate Change

...

Poverty is still a global scourge. More than 700 million live on less than $1.90 per day, and more than 3 billion on less than $5.50. Five million children under 5 die from preventable diseases each year, and 250 million do not attend school. About 700 million people are chronically undernourished—a number that has likely increased during the current pandemic.

Reducing poverty is not feasible without access to cheap and reliable energy. Indeed, the lack of it in low- and lower-middle-income countries, home to a large majority of the world’s poorest people, is one of the world’s biggest inequities. Today, for example, only 14 percent of people in Sub-Saharan Africa have access to clean fuels and technologies such as bottled gas for cooking; the rest are forced to rely on wood, charcoal, and animal dung.

For them and for others around the world, governments must invest significantly in energy, particularly in energy infrastructure. More electricity generation, improvements to the public grid, and spending on roads and cold storage facilities would allow businesses to create more and better jobs, increase productivity, and boost well-being and human dignity.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 26 2022 16:24 utc | 40

annie | Jul 26 2022 15:48 utc | 41

b mentioned that yesterday as the plot that the SBU lied about, saying that the former soldiers were mercenaries trying to overthrow President Lukashenko. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/07/another-crazy-plot-by-ukraines-secret-service-just-blew-up-flimsy-excuses-follow.html
See the bit that begins "In August 2020 there was another crazy SBU plot which a month later unraveled: "

Posted by: Brendan | Jul 26 2022 16:38 utc | 41

@ Posted by: c1ue | Jul 26 2022 16:24 utc | 43

More electricity generation, improvements to the public grid, and spending on roads and cold storage facilities would allow businesses to create more and better jobs, increase productivity, and boost well-being and human dignity.

Human dignity - especially in Africa - has not been increased one iota from capitalist development. Please stop taking shills for dinosaur capitalist industries at face value.

It is true that capitalist development in China came at an enormous human and environmental toll. Thank god the Chinese - unlike the angloids - are rational and committed to scientific enlightenment (a byproduct of their communist political regime) and take mass extinction, green energy (including nuclear), and the myriad other ecological crises facing us very seriously, far more seriously than the clowns at the "breakthrough."

Raoul Vaneigem (a true revolutionary):

In December 1956, a thousand young people ran wild in the streets of Stockholm, setting fire to cars, smashing neon signs, tearing down hoardings and looting department stores. At Merlebach, during a strike called to force the mine-owners to bring up the bodies of seven miners killed by a cave-in, the workers set about the cars parked at the pit head. In January 1961, strikers in Liege burned down the Guillemins station and destroyed the offices of the newspaper La Meuse. Seaside resorts in England and Belgium were devastated by the combined efforts of hundreds of mods and rockers in March 1964. In Amsterdam (1966) the workers held the streets for several days. Not a month goes by without a wildcat strike which pits the workers against both employers and union bosses. Welfare State? The people of Watts have given their answer.

A Ford worker summed up his difference of opinion with the B.F.Skinners, Doxiadis’, Lord Robenses, Norbert Weiners and other watchdogs of the future in the following terms: “Since 1936 I have been fighting for higher wages. My father before me fought for higher wages. I’ve got a TV, a fridge and a Cortina. If you ask me it’s been a dog’s life from start to finish.”

Word to the wise.

Posted by: fnord | Jul 26 2022 17:18 utc | 42

There were actually three attacks on Malaysian airlines in 2014.
First, the "missing" Malaysian 370. We were told that an entire airliner and its passengers "vanished", and neither radar nor satellites nor sonar could be used to find it. Instead they "looked" for it by flying over the ocean and looking for floating suitcases.
Then came the July attack on 17 which, as pointed out above, involved disappearing two more jets, the two fighter jets that actually shot down the airliner.
Then in December 2014 Air Asia Flight 8501 crashed, killing everyone onboard. This was also operated by Malaysian Airlines.
I think that they went bankrupt after those three crashes.
And it seems that Malaysia is more compliant with the Empire since then.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 26 2022 17:37 utc | 43

#---Posted by: OttoE | Jul 26 2022 11:37 utc | 27

You ask a Norwegian? Our land-mass is still rising faster than the ocean can catch up. So there better be some ice-melt.

Posted by: Anne B | Jul 26 2022 17:54 utc | 44

@wagelaborer | Jul 26 2022 17:37 utc | 46

Thanks, I didn't know that. For sure Malaysia was targeted. The MH370 story is ridiculous, I believe it was hijacked using the Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot and landed at the US base at Diego Garcia in the Indian ocean.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 18:17 utc | 45

@Anne B | Jul 26 2022 17:54 utc | 47

Our land-mass is still rising faster than the ocean can catch up. So there better be some ice-melt.
Correct, we are in an interglacial period and our land is still rising from the sea because we no longer have a several thousand meter thick glacier to carry after the last ice age finished ~12 000 years ago. It takes tens of thousands of years for it to settle down, but soon enough comes the next ice age.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 18:25 utc | 46

thanks Brendan

Posted by: annie | Jul 26 2022 18:25 utc | 47

@sippy the shot glass | Jul 26 2022 16:13 utc | 42

Point out the exact attack against YOU, personally, that constitutes an ad-hominem, or admit to the world that "you" is nothing more than your property relations, and that you as a human being are of zero value.

LOL, since you don't know me, I must presume you are projecting.

The issue was about the abuse of Wikipedia by types having the same kind of behavior that you are showing. It tends to happen when someone points out something right that goes against the narrative.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 18:37 utc | 48

would engineers consent to have bridges designed by fashion consultants? if not, why on earth should we listen to engineers on the subject of climate science? just tell the fossil fuel companies of your ground breaking science, collect your billions and win a nobel prize. unless of course you're full of shit.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 26 2022 18:44 utc | 49

Posted by: Anne B | Jul 26 2022 17:54 utc | 47

what land mass? are you an engineer too?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jul 26 2022 18:45 utc | 50

@pretzelattack | Jul 26 2022 18:45 utc | 53

what land mass? are you an engineer too?

Norway is part of the Scandinavian land mass. Maybe you don't know geology, but basic geography is expected.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 18:55 utc | 51

@pretzelattack | Jul 26 2022 18:44 utc | 52

I think the pretzel got you there.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 18:57 utc | 52

Posted by: Cabe | Jul 26 2022 9:06 utc | 10
This does make me a little more suspicious of Wikipedia.

======================
You should be suspicious about Wikipedia; it is common knowledge that the CIA and Military Intelligence (and other contract groups) have a free hand in adding, removing, and editing anything on Wikipedia that does not align with the official narrative from Washington or that they consider "unduly" critical of the US or allied Military Intelligence. Also, items that are critical of US foreign policy, or expose any sort of bad or illegal behavior by the US government in general, are subject to revisions or complete removal from Wikipedia.
Most left and rightwing bloggers know this already, it is not something new.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Jul 26 2022 21:48 utc | 53

Document about the m17 crash sites:
Posted by: Olivier | Jul 26 2022 13:16 utc | 37

https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/edia/attachment/2018/7/10/debcd724fe7breport_mh17_crash.pdf

Courtesy by John Helmer
===============================

Posted by: Olivier | Jul 26 2022 13:16 utc | 37

404: Pagina niet gevonden
Helaas kunnen we de pagina die je zoekt niet vinden. Dit kan komen doordat de pagina niet meer bestaat, of doordat de pagina is verwijderd of verplaatst.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Jul 26 2022 22:04 utc | 54

Posted by: Exile | Jul 26 2022 9:29 utc | 12

"Wikipedia has been slowly compromised by the War Party over the last decade."

It's been compromised for a lot longer than a decade. CIA/MI6/Mossad et al, and an army of brainwashed editors, make sure that it reflects the standard western, Atlanticist POV. The list of so-called "reliable sources" - i.e. mainstream western corporate and state media outlets - that are allowed to be referenced in articles gives the game away. It's a piss poor simulacra of an "encyclopedia" that's cobbled together by intel assets, tech nerds and useful idiots.

Posted by: darren price | Jul 26 2022 22:27 utc | 55

Sushi @36

In 2012 one of those Russian competitors to the 737/A320 crashed in suspicious circumstances in neighboring Indonesia. The official word was pilot error, even though the pilot was a former cosmonaut trained to fly the Soviet Buran Space Shuttle. One US citizen on board, listed as a 'consultant'.

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Jul 27 2022 1:02 utc | 56

Bellingcat is just another CIA office after all.

Posted by: Smith | Jul 27 2022 1:15 utc | 57

wagelaborer | Jul 26 2022 17:37 utc | 46

Malaysian 370. We were told that an entire airliner and its passengers "vanished", and neither radar nor satellites nor sonar could be used to find it. Instead they "looked" for it by flying over the ocean and looking for floating suitcases.

I knew it was a psyop the very instant I heard BOTH the western Australian coastal radars were offline that day..and that day only.
Search: Confirmed my bemusement (not for the hapless passengers).
Here’s a comment I posted just the other day:
By an amazing piece of serendipity, the CSIRO had a brand new bathymetric vessel which was dispatched to look for wreckage.
It’s search area was the remote and never previously surveyed southern ocean south of the west Australian coast.
Relatives and other interested parties insisted the MH-370 search was not being conducted in the correct area…
The Australian taxpayers footed the bill for a year-long, massive, State of the Art survey of the world’s most remote ocean.
How useful all that research data and mapping might be, now that the US is building a naval base south of Perth…
Of course. It’s all just an amazing, astonishing, outlandish coincidence.

Extracts from:Geoscience Australia: MH370 - Data Release
>…The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) led the underwater search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 in the southern Indian Ocean, including analysis of the search area, the sea floor mapping and sea floor search.
>…The search comprised two phases, Phase One, a bathymetric survey, provided a detailed map of the sea floor topography in the search area; this was used to guide Phase Two, the underwater sea floor search.
The underwater search used sidescan and multibeam sonar equipment mounted on towed and autonomous underwater vehicles to collect high-resolution sonar images of the sea floor in an attempt to identify the location of MH370.
>Despite every effort using the best science available, cutting edge technology, as well as modelling and advice from experts across a range of fields, the search has not been able to locate the missing aircraft.  The missing aircraft was not located within the 120,000 square kilometre underwater search area…
https://www.ga.gov.au/about/projects/marine/mh370-data-release

The remote piece of ocean searched had never been surveyed before. It was ocean that had never been part of a trade route, and was rarely sailed …. Because it was … remote.
Searching for MH370 provided a justification to use the very best tools in an area that would be hard to gain research funding for under other circumstances.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jul 27 2022 1:51 utc | 58

Posted by: Norwegian | Jul 26 2022 8:37 utc | 9

I'm sorry I cannot remember where I read it, but there was some contention that MH17 was in fact an attempt (by Ukraine AFU) to bring down Vladimir Putin's plane.

Apparently they both were on a W-E flight path at the time, and were both adorned with loosely similar livery.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jul 26 2022 10:43 utc | 21

yes. and within hours of the crash putin phoned obama to discuss sanctions and informed him of the mh17 crash-. phone call readout from kremlin web-site.

Posted by: dykalg | Jul 27 2022 4:38 utc | 59

this "maverick ex operatives" had a huge wallet indeed, as it seems they would have paid 2 millions for each aircraft.
just considering this amounts with the average value of UKR salaries ... and you know this is a fake news, just to cloud the waters.
really this guys keeps thinking people could swallow something like this ?

Posted by: Italy | Jul 27 2022 11:22 utc | 60

I just surfed over here after reading The Babylon Bee. Reading the headline, for a moment, I thought I was still there.

I really miss satire. Those Bible thumpers do their best, but the world's just gone too far sideways.

Posted by: jhill | Jul 27 2022 21:23 utc | 61

@fnord #45
Be more clear what you mean by "capitalist development".

It is lack of capital which is why almost no African country has a reliable electricity grid - which is why there is estimated to be over 100 GW of diesel electricity generation there.

It is lack of capital which is why Africa is primarily a commodity exporter - and not even refined commodities but the raw ore in many cases.

And even despite that - Africa is improving. Life expectancy, per capita income, overall population etc etc.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 28 2022 14:06 utc | 62

@Cabe 10

If you find Wikipedia’s censorship curious, you might want to search Phillip Cross. Not sure if it is one L or two.

Posted by: Nwwoods | Jul 31 2022 20:43 utc | 63

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