Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 9, 2022
Washington Starts Blame Game Over Defeat In Ukraine

The New York Times, here via Yahoo, has some rather weird piece over alleged lack of intelligence on Ukrainian warplanes:

U.S. Lacks a Clear Picture of Ukraine's War Strategy, Officials Say

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine has provided near-daily updates of Russia’s invasion on social media; viral video posts have shown the effectiveness of Western weapons in the hands of Ukrainian forces; and the Pentagon has regularly held briefings on developments in the war.

But despite the flow of all this news to the public, U.S. intelligence agencies have less information than they would like about Ukraine’s operations and possess a far better picture of Russia’s military, its planned operations and its successes and failures, according to current and former officials.

Governments often withhold information from the public for operational security. But these information gaps within the U.S. government could make it more difficult for the Biden administration to decide how to target military aid as it sends billions of dollars in weapons to Ukraine.

Avril D. Haines, the director of national intelligence, testified at a Senate hearing last month that “it was very hard to tell” how much additional aid Ukraine could absorb.

She added: “We have, in fact, more insight, probably, on the Russian side than we do on the Ukrainian side.”

One key question is what measures Zelenskyy intends to call for in Donbas. Ukraine faces a strategic choice there: withdraw its forces or risk having them encircled by Russia.

Andrei Martyanov rants about the piece:

Well, NYT decided to start steering clear of this whole Russia "lost in Ukraine" BS it promoted together with neocon crazies, and begins this ever familiar tune of the "intel failure". Right.

U.S. Lacks a Clear Picture of Ukraine's War Strategy, Officials Say

Hm, how about I put it bluntly–the U.S. never had clear picture on anything, especially on Russia, or, as a private case, [the Special Military Operation] and completely bought into Ukie propaganda, which shows a complete incompetence of the "intel" in the US.

The narrative on [the Special Military Operation], in reality, is dead and the failure is not being set, it already happened. It is a fait accompli no matter how one wants to put a lipstick on the pig.

Larry Johnson thinks there is another another motive behind the story:

Frankly, I find it hard to believe that there are not solid analysts at the Defense Intelligence Agency who know the answers to all these questions. The real problem may not be a lack of intelligence. Nope. It is the fear of telling the politicians hard truths they do not want to hear.

Given the billions of dollars the United States is spending on “intelligence” collection systems, it is time for the Congress and the American public to demand that the intelligence services do their damn job.

I do not believe for one moment that U.S. intelligence services do not know what is going on in Ukraine and in Kiev. They know that the Ukraine has lost the war and will have to sue for peace as soon as possible.

They also have told the White House that this is a case and that the whole idea of setting up the Ukraine to tickle the Russian bear was idiotic from the get go. The question now is who will take the blame for the outcome. Who can the buck be passed to?

There is always the option for politicians,  as Andrei assumes is the case, to blame the intelligence and the various agencies which provide it. This was done when the war on Iraq, based on false claims weapons of mass destruction, started to go bad for the U.S.

But what the NYT piece does is passing the buck from the intelligence community to president Zelensky of Ukraine: "He did not inform us about the bad position his country was in."

It is cover your ass time and Zelensky prominence in the 'west' makes it possible to blame him personally for the outcome of the war.

On May 31 the Council of Foreign Relations, with its head Richard Haass, had a public discussion about the state of the war in Ukraine. One of the participants was the former Deputy Commander of the United States European Command Stephen M. Twitty. He knows and makes absolutely clear where the war stands:

TWITTY: I think the war in the Donbas is starting to turn to the Russians’ favor, and when you take a look at—and I’m particularly talking about the eastern part of the Donbas—the Russians have transitioned from trying to pour all their combat power into the Donbas to obliterating every single town. Whether it be Rubizhne, Lyman, they’re working now on Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk as well, they’re obliterating these particular towns, and that’s how they’re making their headway. They’re not putting a bunch of combat power with infantry forces and tanks in there. They’ve taken all their artillery and they’re treating it like Mariupol and that’s how they’re making their headway. So they’re starting to make some headway in the eastern Donbas and so we have to watch that one closely.

HAASS: … Why don’t we reverse [our policies]? General Twitty, is there something that the president said? Are things we’re not doing that we should be doing? Is there things that you would recommend at this point?

TWITTY: Well, as I take a look at this, you know, Secretary Austin came out that we’re going to weaken Russia. We have not really defined what weaken means, because if you take a look at the Ukrainians right now, I take a strong belief in Colin Powell’s doctrine—you overwhelm a particular enemy with force. And right now, when you take a look at Ukraine and you take a look at Russia, they’re about one to one. The only difference is Russia has a heck of a lot of combat power than the Ukrainians.

And so there’s no way that the Ukrainians will ever destroy or defeat the Russians, and so we got to really figure out what does weaken mean in the end state here. And I will also tell you, Richard, there’s no way that the Ukrainians will ever have enough combat power to kick the Russians out of Ukraine as well, and so what does that look like in the end game.

There follows some discussion with other participants about potential outcomes the U.S. would like to see, like Ukraine in the state that it was in before 2014.

Twitty then explains why those ideas are all unrealistic and that what is needed instead are immediate negotiations:

TWITTY: Yeah. So I got a couple of things for you, Richard. So I want to go back to what you said. Pre-2014—I want you to think about that one, because I’ve had time to think about it hearing others here, and what I will tell you, Richard, you know, I learned from the National War College there’s something called ends, ways, and means.

So if that’s your end state—pre-2014—then I’m interested to hear the ways and the means because, from a military standpoint, if that’s the way then the means would be the Ukrainians lack, again, the ability to pull that off to pre-2014. They just lack that ability. They don’t have the combat power.

And I also want to remind you we hear a lot about Russian casualties and Russian losses. We hear very little about Ukrainian losses, and keep in mind they’re losing soldiers throughout this war as well. They started at approximately two hundred thousand. Who knows where they are today?

And so it’s hard to recruit and maintain that level of professionalism in that military. So that’s my first point. The end, ways, and means, they lack that, to be able to go back to the pre-2014.

The second point that I would make is, you know, as you look at the DIME—diplomatic, informational, military, and economic—we’re woefully lacking on the diplomatic piece of this. If you notice, there’s no diplomacy going on at all to trying to get to some type of negotiations. And I don’t think that we can lead that, given where Putin thinks about us.

But if you sit back and think about those that could possibly be a part of this negotiation team, you know, you have the—two of them are in—that I’m going to list are in NATO. One is President Orbán out of Hungary. Perhaps he can help out in the negotiation effort. The other one is President Erdoğan of Turkey. Longtime friends of President Putin, although some view that relationship as transactional. I don’t know. Let’s put it to the test and see.

Someone objects and makes a case for 'giving the Ukraine more time' by pushing more weapons to them. Twitty dismantles that argument:

TWITTY: —Charlie, I agree 100 percent. But I will tell you, when you look at time, the Ukrainians have to go into negotiations with the upper hand at a position of strength, and so right now they are at a position of strength. The more this war goes on we never know if that’s going to wane, and then they will lack the ability to go to the bargaining table at a position of strength and may lose more than they intended, and so let’s keep that in mind as well.

There it is. The professional military and intelligence people know exactly what is up. The Ukraine is already in a very bad situation and from here on it can only get worse. They expect that the Ukrainian frontline will break down.  I am sure they are urging, like Twitty does above, for immediate negotiations using whatever third party is available.

It is the White House for which such an outcome is not what it had hoped to achieve. It can in fact not allow it. It is currently blocking any negotiations because admitting to a loss in Ukraine would give the Republicans more ammunition to damage Biden.

Yves Smith detects some signs that, behind the curtains, some direct negotiations between Ukraine and Russia are actually taking place:

We may know in due course, but this development, even if these talks are more at the feeler stage, is proof that Zelensky is losing power. Recall that there has already been some chatter about a possible military coup. And it is hardly uncommon for the senior officials of a leader on the ropes to start negotiating with the other side, both out of the best interests of their country and to improve their odds of survival.

So that is a long winded way of saying that Zelensky may not have altered his stance, but that instead he is no longer driving the train. And it may also be that some in the Ukraine government are also trying to get the UK’s and US’s hands off the wheel. It may be too early for that to happen, but if they keep trying to shore up Zelensky when his own senior staff (and the military) are turning against him, they could find they bet on the wrong horse. Again, I’m not saying this is a likely outcome, but the fact that it is even conceivable is a big change in the state of play.

Passing the buck to Zelensky, to then have him removed from this planet, may indeed be the best outcome for the White House … and for Ukraine.

Comments

who’s who at the Bilderberg requiem service.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 9 2022 23:24 utc | 201

Scorpion | Jun 9 2022 23:01 utc | 189
if we are to believe the MSM, millions now have the very sincere belief that Putin is Hitler + Stalin x Mao + 2(Castros) x Pol Pot, now with nukes.
and?
you are a Nazi Apologist, baptizing world historical criminality and genocidal racism w/the holy water of “sincere belief”.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 9 2022 23:29 utc | 202

WITTY: —Charlie, I agree 100 percent. But I will tell you, when you look at time, the Ukrainians have to go into negotiations with the upper hand at a position of strength, and so right now they are at a position of strength. The more this war goes on we never know if that’s going to wane, and then they will lack the ability to go to the bargaining table at a position of strength and may lose more than they intended, and so let’s keep that in mind as well.
There it is. The professional military and intelligence people know exactly what is up.
Um, no. Anyone who thinks the Ukes would be negotiating right now from ANY position of strength is engaging in some weapons grade delusion.
There’s no reason for Russia to negotiate at this point anyways. That time has passed.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Jun 9 2022 23:32 utc | 203

The 2013 NDAA included the repeal of the Smith-Mundt domestic propaganda ban. The ban had been in effect since 1947. While the mockingbird media is not new, when the ban was repealed, the “news” industry — aka pentagon stenographers — unleash a daily torrent of pro war propaganda funded and directed at us by our own government.

Posted by: willow | Jun 9 2022 23:35 utc | 204

Jos Andre #199

Based on yesterday/today’s ludicrous comments by Zelensky there is zero probability that Ukraine will capitulate along those terms. And even if a new military government were to agree, the fight will change in type but not in substance: Russia will still need to exert control over all of Ukraine and impose its will to enforce denazification.
I believe a number of separate protectorates (Transcarpathia, StaraRus (Kiev-Chernigov-Poltava), Galicia-Venitsya) are likely.

Yes, that’s about it. AND Zelensky will likely vamoose to the parents $8M granny flat in occupied Palestine. This will leave the Luhansk/Donbass liberation forces to appoint an interim governor to denazify and demilitarise and regularise the western provinces of Ukrainian society.
It will take time and all inquiries will be directed to the authors of the December 2021 peace treaties proposed by Russia to the westies. No rush. The panic stricken clowns are currently having a blunderberg meeting to reveal the next farce. Hint – a Chinese province by the name of Taiwan.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 9 2022 23:38 utc | 205

@chu teh | Jun 9 2022 22:09 utc | 166
“* fascism…explained about 100 years ago the fasces-symbol of an axe bound with sticks, carried in Roman times to announce to onlookers the presence of a travelling judge with the official powers to punish and/or kill you.”
Interesting – now I know the source for the design on the reverse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_dime
Designed, in 1916 btw, by German immigrant Adolph Alexander Weinman.
and here is the text mentioned by chu teh in online form: https://archive.org/details/ancienttimeshist00breauoft/page/n5/mode/2up
published in 1916

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 9 2022 23:41 utc | 206

Boomheist | Jun 9 2022 20:15 utc | 130
how much sleight of hand will be required to convince the US public that Russia (or China) is preventing the US from feeding all its newly unaborted babies, along w/all the regular pre-diabetic kiddos? “Wuhan bacteria was found at Abbot Lab facilities today….” throw in some Fauci references, and voila.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 9 2022 23:42 utc | 207

people want to be seen as stupid as that will earn them victimhood status points within the organization. They might even get promoted.
@ William Gruff | Jun 9 2022 21:14 utc | 149
That would account for much available evidence. A friend of a friend, applying for a police job, was turned down because he scored too high on the entrance exam. They figure if you’re capable of something else you’ll move on, whereas they’re ideally looking for career police officers — fitting the profile, if you know what I mean.
Speaking of fitting the profile, our Bay Area went through one of Hip-Hop’s most delightful passages, the Hyphee era, on stimulating slogans such as “get stoopid” and “ima get igrent” — there’s nothing in music history quite so delicious as Hyphee: often very slow with erupting bass and silly sounds. The kind of stuff that gets sold out of someone’s trunk, along with other goods. To this day, I’ve never figured out anything Keak the Sneak (one of Hyphee’s few survivors) ever said. Objectionable, illegible words, no doubt. To my ear, he’s a genius percussionist with a drum-set in his throat.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jun 10 2022 0:04 utc | 208

An excruciatingly key point Lavrov’s been repeating for awhile and did again in his most recent interview, paraphrased: The West (Outlaw US Empire) doesn’t listen to us, so we have no reason to waste our breath until the SMO’s goals are realized.
Ritter can’t take the death and destruction anymore, so his POV now reflects that. If Ritter wants to make a difference, he needs to confront his own government for its many constitutional violations in the course of its decades-long killing spree. But if he did that, he’d probably burn some bridges to some of his remaining inside sources. So, he’s compromised.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 10 2022 0:05 utc | 209

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 9 2022 23:24 utc | 200
A nice list of top ranked new generation neo-nazi’s (neo-cons)

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 10 2022 0:05 utc | 210

“Well, I hope it’s that straightforward. If this whole nasty kerfuffle ends up with a new world order that has somehow managed to bypass the Western elite rentier class, that is going to be interesting to say the least.
Come to think of it: the easiest way to do this is to separate for a while. Let the Westerners keep to their system with their bankster-controlled models whilst we the Central and Eastern Eurasians go forward with a new system of our own which the Westerners can no longer control.
So they don’t have to destroy anything per se. They can just walk away to a different jurisdiction of their own making. Sounds doable.”
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 9 2022 20:45 utc | 137
Wow, Scorpion, just wow! Thank you, and thanks to Michael Hudson!
Also thanks karlof1, that backtrack to the end of the last thread sounds an enjoyable read. Plus, that refinery fire – you say higher gas prices for us polloi – but if the gas can’t go overseas might it lower prices? (she said hopefully but rather expecting to learn otherwise.) One shouldn’t encourage such occurrences, obviously, so higher prices are probably what will happen.
There’s a Joe Tzu there in all that somewhere…

Posted by: juliania | Jun 10 2022 0:11 utc | 211

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 9 2022 23:29 utc | 201
“if we are to believe the MSM, millions now have the very sincere belief that Putin is Hitler + Stalin x Mao + 2(Castros) x Pol Pot, now with nukes.
and?”
Exactly!
You are excoriating me because you believe in your own MSM of choice which I question, so don’t be so high and mighty! You don’t know what happened back in the 1940’s. None of us do.
The point is: pretty much ANY time you see one person casting their side as angles and their opponents as demons it’s self-serving BS.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 10 2022 0:13 utc | 212

Gruff – please stop embarrassing yourself. Step away from the keyboard. It is sad to see a once respected commentator reduced to yelling at the kids to stay off your lawn.
I am going to coin a new phrase, “grufftard”.
Feel free to use this as you see fit.

Posted by: David F | Jun 10 2022 0:17 utc | 213

I am under the impression that the intelligence agencies’ aura of omniscience is more of a shroud meant to deceive, hide their mediocrity and justify their budget.
I’ve found this piece of Adam Curtis particularly amusing.
“Maybe the real state secret is that spies aren’t very good at their jobs and don’t know much about the world.”

Posted by: lathe viosas | Jun 10 2022 0:19 utc | 214

“…were it not for the extreme bloodiness of the communist revolution it is quite likely that the fascist movement in Germany would never have taken off the way it did…” Scorpion @189
The Bolshevik Revolution was far from being bloody. The blood was shed in the years following during which a total of 21 Foreign Armies invaded the Soviet Union in order to crush the Communists. It was this intervention which sparked and then sustained the Civil Wars involving White Russian, and other armies armed and assisted by the UK, France, Japan and others.
As to the German fascist movement its violence was born of the impunity with which it operated. The Freikorps were violent from the beginning, once government began to use them, and protect them from consequences-the killing of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, for example- the violence simply spiraled.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 0:20 utc | 215

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 9 2022 21:53 utc | 163
LOL! US “Gain of function” commissions sold worldwide to “friend,” “allied,” and “rival” BSL-4s

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 10 2022 0:22 utc | 216

“…Stoltenberg…has a case of shingles…”
There is, then, a God in Heaven.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 0:24 utc | 217

Hello rjb1.5;
Eaten any good books lately?
If you still have the appetite may I suggest Article 47 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol 1), as an apéritif?
Specifically sections (d) and (e).
From a purely pragmatic point of view handing out death sentences with such legal irregularity is unlikely to encourage UAF forces on the fence to surrender.
C’est pire qu’un crime, c’est une faute.

Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 10 2022 0:26 utc | 218

“…Stoltenberg…has a case of shingles…”
There is, then, a God in Heaven.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 0:24 utc | 216
Not monkey pox, then?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 10 2022 0:26 utc | 219

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 10 2022 0:26 utc | 218
Dammit, you beat me to it! Can’t you just imagine all the delicious gossip if it were monkeypox?

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 10 2022 0:31 utc | 220

I fully expect an almost exact repeat of the Ukraine debacle in Taiwan.
Posted by: HH | Jun 9 2022 15:59 utc | 21
Interesting to note that the State Department added back on 28/05 to its Taiwan fact sheet that the US does not support Taiwan’s independence.

Posted by: lathe viosas | Jun 10 2022 0:34 utc | 221

baptizing world historical criminality and genocidal racism w/the holy water of “sincere belief”
@ rjb1.5 | Jun 9 2022 23:29 utc | 201
Well put. I might also boil it down to a tiresomely typical both-sides-ism game — almost exclusively the name of the MSM game, aka equivocation. Fake crimes the same as real crimes, intentions as actions, “genocide” a baseless invective to fling. Both the aim and effect is to erase considerations of morality from reasoned discourse. Anyone affecting to note moral principles is really a hypocrite, and so on. An ancient, quite familiar disruptive refrain, I must say.
A key, if not central technique in nihilistically oriented expression: Unflagging attacks on meaningful words and phrases. Delexification until nothing means anything, and nobody can say anything to anyone anymore.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jun 10 2022 0:37 utc | 222

bevin
As always, thank you for the notes on Jeremy Corbyn, revealing and promising data.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 0:37 utc | 223

@170 Peter AU
For most of the crew ‘doing the work’ reports claimed not much retraining, few weeks. The officers prob a fair amount needed tho. Sounds like a convenient situation for a handful of “trainers” to accompany each battery.

Posted by: ptb | Jun 10 2022 0:43 utc | 224

About that new world order thing and how will we get there from here.
Think of the scenario that we have heard whispers of. The one that has a new Reserve Currency (RC) and associated tools of finance that are sovereign nation owned/controlled and are structured to have and maintain some sort of intrinsic value. As part of this alternative system of finance being instantiated comes the challenge of linking it to the existing, fiat, private system of finance.
The challenge of linkage is compounded by the fiat/intrinsic value chasm and I see the new RC folk saying to the fiat folk, “Establish some intrinsic value for your money and then we can talk.”
Or is the exchange rate negotiated over nukes?
The shit show continues until it doesn’t.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 10 2022 0:44 utc | 225

juliania @210–
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, that explosion took 20% of US LNG exports off the global market for at least one month, perhaps much longer depending on damage extent. That LNG was needed to fill European reserves for Winter, a process that will now take much longer (if it gets accomplished at all) at much greater cost. Furthermore, the industry knows there’s not enough future gas extraction to warrant the expense in building more gasification plants, which is also why no new oil refineries are being built. We are on the downslope of depletion where no matter how many more wells get drilled, overall extraction rates continue to fall for both oil and gas. That’s the nature of finite resources. What we’re now seeing was predicted to begin @2015. Earlier demand destruction and conservation helped to extend that date until now. Yes, there’re market distortions because of the illegal sanctions on Russia, Iran and Venezuela and the knee-capping of Brazil’s Petrobas’s offshore deep oil project. But the basic physics driving depletion were going to take hold at some point, and that point has arrived. My advice: buy a used Prius. We have two 2004 models still getting 50mpg.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 10 2022 0:47 utc | 226

@166 Chu Teh
@205 Pessimist
Great scholarship from both of you, and it’s much appreciated.
=====
Have any of you looked up “Chu Teh” yet, to learn the significance of that screen name?
=====
Chu Teh, you don’t seem to be native Asian; your command of the English language suggests at least some immersion in Western culture… but of course I may easily be wrong about that.
May I ask – and I apologize if this is to presumptive – may I ask what the lesson is that we should learn from “Chu Teh”?
There are many traits one could choose to emphasize of this great historical figure. Are there ones in particular that would be fruitful to contemplate?
Naturally, this may not be a question you wish to address; there are many reasons why not. I certainly won’t take the least offense if you bypass it altogether.
But it is quite interesting.
🙂

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Jun 10 2022 0:48 utc | 227

Billy Bob | Jun 9 2022 18:40 utc | 90
Jos Andre | Jun 9 2022 23:22 utc | 199
I think this is the relevant Lavrov quote

“As for the declared objectives, let me reiterate the following. The West has decided to supply weapons that, in all evidence, are capable of reaching not only the border areas of the Russian Federation but also its more remote points. Politicians and legislators in Ukraine itself are laughing at the Americans, who said they believed Vladimir Zelensky’s promise not to shell Russia. If this is how the United States and its satellites react to what is happening, I will stress once again: the longer-range are the systems supplied to the Kiev regime, the farther will we push the Nazis from the line from which threats emanate for the Russian population of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
https://www.mid.ru/en/press_service/minister_speeches/1816449/

I has been my belief for a while now that Russia wqill pause, perhaps for quite some time once LDPR is cleared. The contact line would stay militarized and perhaps ongoing calibration but halt the offensive. Remember there is no time limit on this operation. Next phase may well be to let the European and US economies further deteriorate. Perhaps give that deterioration a helping hand. As yet, Russia has placed no meaningful economic sanctions on EU and US. Europe’s economy is I think is past the point of no return and with a vacant minded but ideological leadership so no chance of recovery, EU in 12 months will look a different place.
US is heading for hyperinflation. How much will it take to crash the US economy – crash the so called too big to fail. Russia at some point may sanction energy exports to the US. And knowing the idiot Americans will likely try and sanction China in the coming months.
My thought is final denazification and demilitarization will take place when the hegemon and Nato no longer exists.
The Chinese ambassador to Moscow has said the hegemon has to be broken. The bio warfare labs in Ukraine and their documents makes destroying US as a world power a priority and I don’t think breaking/crashing the US economy will be difficult.
I that is the case then it gives context to what Lavrov stated. Most have the view – and Ritter is one – that Russia must continue non stop with the current military offensive to achieve their stated aims but from everything the Russian leadership has said I don’t think that will be the case. They may pause for a year, perhaps five years but they will achieve their stated aims.
As for Lavrov saying they may push the Nazi’s further west – that may mean Russia keeps the offensive going and takes the oblasts along the Russian border. Khakov, Sumy ect before pausing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 0:50 utc | 228

karlof1 #208

An excruciatingly key point Lavrov’s been repeating for awhile and did again in his most recent interview, paraphrased: The West (Outlaw US Empire) doesn’t listen to us, so we have no reason to waste our breath until the SMO’s goals are realized.
Ritter can’t take the death and destruction anymore, so his POV now reflects that. If Ritter wants to make a difference, he needs to confront his own government for its many constitutional violations in the course of its decades-long killing spree. But if he did that, he’d probably burn some bridges to some of his remaining inside sources. So, he’s compromised.

Thank you, and Lavrov nails it with no minced words.
Ritter should stick to his expertise on cbw and the ‘coincidence’ of those bases in Ukraine etc, but seems to have been persuaded otherwise. Very sad. His early opposition vehemence was welcome but he has been eclipsed by realities beyond his endurance.
He was correct in that the war was determined in the first week or two and the rest is meat grinding clean up.
The upside is that the west is stumbling, bumbling, mumbling into its own oblivion with no sign of a statesman able to rescue it from its stupidity.
Stay well brother karlof.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 0:51 utc | 229

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 0:20 utc | 214
So again: no murder of millions, eh?
I’m afraid we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. But one thing I suggest: of course you believe your perception is correct. I understand that. But it seems you are unwilling or unable to accept that there are different perceptions in the mix. For example for hundreds of thousands of young men who gave their lives for a cause which you say is entirely unjustified and yet they believed in. You can disagree with their reasoning but still appreciate their loyalty and sacrifice.
That said, some causes are twisted and some people or movements too. But not always. Sometimes because we have picked a side we refuse to acknowledge that the other side might believe they are the righteous ones and they have cause as well. Again, even if you are right that no mass murders happened and it was all the fault of other people invading and the Chekia stories are fake news etc., many many others believe those stories and so have an entirely different perception from your own. This does not make them demons or atrocity apologists.
Unless and until we bring back some sort of appreciation of honor first cultivating it in ourselves and then being able to see it even in our enemies when warranted, we are all doomed.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 10 2022 0:55 utc | 230

OT—-OT
Before I go for the evening, I need to post something my wife showed me last night that surprised me, hemp as a substitute for graphene, which doesn’t appear to be a joke. My search returned lots of hits, the one linked is the article I was shown. So, don’t buy that electric car with lithium batteries. Hold out for the newbies. And I’ll bet China makes them first.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 10 2022 0:58 utc | 231

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 9 2022 23:29 utc | 201
indeed. along with pining for the czars (and maybe for Henry Ford), and the british empire and the failure of Hess’s peace mission which would have allowed Hitler to turn his attention east to Russia. oh, and this war is fake, just a plot.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 10 2022 0:58 utc | 232

“Maybe the real state secret is that spies aren’t very good at their jobs and don’t know much about the world.”
Posted by: lathe viosas | Jun 10 2022 0:19 utc | 213
the cia certainly isn’t, not at the intelligence/counterintelligence part, or wet work. it’s great at funneling money to wannabe dictators and creating terrorist groups though. the guys that came up with the idea of assassinating Castro with an exploding cigar 3 stooges style were and are not capable spies.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 10 2022 1:03 utc | 233

@peter au
I don’t think they can stop, NATO will train and arm more and more people and deliver more and more heavy weapons.
This is an very dangerous situation for the world.
Russia needs to keep up a crazy pace or they will have to do it all again in a very short time.

Posted by: OhhCanada | Jun 10 2022 1:03 utc | 234

“… even without acceding to power Corbyn repeatedly humiliated himself before the PTB. (When did he ever defend himself against those who regularly smeared him?)..” malenkov@147
It is certainly true that Corbyn was inclined to ‘turn the other cheek’ when the subject of personal attacks. It is also true that he was surrounded by traitors and attempted to carry on while ignoring them. This was because in his judgement the most important priority was to put his programme before the people.
He knew very well that the PLP was 75% opposed to him and that many of its members were openly working for the Tories. The abuse to which he was subject was designed to tempt him into factional struggles which he could not win. He knew the way the deck was stacked. And he knew that there was only one way round it. His only hope was to present the socialist agenda to the people.
In this he was very successful- putting aside the situation in Scotland and the Six Counties, he attracted an historically large vote in 2017. And that vote was won, in the face of complete MSM and Establishment hatred (and hatred it was, I was there and saw it in Establishment quarters) not by spending large amounts of money but by dogged, door to door volunteer canvassing of the sort not seen for many years before or since.
The slogan, from Shelley and 1819, “Ye are many. They are Few.” Resonated across a large part of the population. And nowhere more than where young people- the primary victims of the gig economy, homelessness and precarity- gathered.
These are the great facts and they should not be forgotten. A better world would have taken an enormous amount of struggle but there was a glimmer of hope.
You then deduct, from Corbyn’s softness of manner and refusal to engage in personalities the “suggestion” “…that he wouldn’t have been willingly controlled opposition to the PTB, but rather reluctantly controlled opposition…”
The evidence is that he was not controlled either by the State or the informal Establishment or anything apart from the constituency-membership and supporters of the Labour Party which had elected him.
There are many criticisms to be made of Corbyn but none of them can be taken out of the context of what he managed to do, in a party in which Socialists had, Blair boasted, been confined to die in a sealed tomb.
Corbyn escaped that tomb and took socialist reforms and opposition to neo-liberalism (albeit in a programme which was historically very moderate and mild, though it raised more anger than anything Nye Bevan or Stafford Cripps ever provoked) to the top of the political agenda. It took an enormous campaign embracing publicly, both the US and Israeli governments, not to mention several Generals in the army, threatening coups (forced to break the cover of faux neutrality) to bring him down.
Most readers here will have very little knowledge of the circumstances of a political episode in a distant island off the coast of Europe, and why should they? But they should not be seduced by the alibi for inactivity that cynicism provides: what Corbyn was doing could be done anywhere. And, in the near future it must become successful because capitalism and imperialism can no longer pretend to be viable. They must be replaced and, as Karl Marx knew, in countries with parliamentary institutions, that will involve electoral campaigns, which will never succeed but must be attempted in order to expose to the victims of the system the violence and brutality that lies behind the state and its laws.
It may be of interest to read this article, in Consortium New today, by one of his advisors.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/06/08/faced-with-donbass-defeat-us-uk-up-the-ante-in-ukraine/

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 1:04 utc | 235

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 10 2022 0:55 utc | 229
more both sides bullshit. yeah, no murder of millions. i wasn’t convinced to honor the SS when that demented fool Reagan slipped up in Bitburg, and it’s no more convincing now. “honor” lofl.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 10 2022 1:05 utc | 236

Peter AU1 #227
Thank you for that Lavrov quote.
Yes the Russians could likely pause momentarily but then, if the rout accelerates, they will likely also hot pursuit all the way to the Polish concept of a border ie none!. The Chechens owe the NAZO team one. Big time. So I expect there will be some extended action. I suspect once the eastern reach of Ukraine Army is destroyed, there will be mayhem.
With the rail lines being carefully restored and made operational in the rear there is an easy path to resource an accelerated advance.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 1:06 utc | 237

Peter AU1 @227–
IMO, Russia won’t place many sanctions on the Outlaw US Empire since the blowback is working quite well. IMO, it’s an example of selling the West the rope it will hang itself with. Plus, EU nations will say look at all the Russian oil the Empire’s buying yet we’re to cut our own necks. Putin talked today of every functional society’s need to be consolidated. We’re seeing the opposite unfold in the West–disintegration. All that needs to be added is time.
uncle tungsten @228–
Thanks for your reply! Do find the time to read the long transcript I posted to the previous thread. It’s very uplifting and it shows humanity’s continuing possibilities.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 10 2022 1:10 utc | 238

Re Your Diatribe About Bevin
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 9 2022 15:32 utc | 391
I objected to your continual attempts to mislead the bar here:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/06/some-other-peoples-thoughts-on-the-us-ukraine-and-europe.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02a2eec7035b200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02a2eec7035b200d
I note that a major source for sulphur hexafluoride, a man made industrial gas with a greenhouse effect 23,500 time greater than than CO2, derives from its use as a silicon etchant for semiconductor manufacturing. This is an industry which you have previously stated you represent in a legal capacity.
The bar needs to be aware of the fact you are “talking your own book” and acting to mislead others with respect to the issue of anthropogenic warming and the related science.
As stated in my prior post: “Please continue driving down the mountain at speed. Your Darwin award is awaiting.” Don’t expect the rest of the bar to go along for the ride.
Cheers!

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 10 2022 1:13 utc | 239

Tom Pfotzer@226
Chu Teh as everyone would know in a decent world was the commander of the Eighth Route Army of the Peoples Liberation Army.
A master tactician and strategist, a comrade of Mao’s and a man who played a bigger part in the defeat of Japanese Imperialism and KMT fascism than almost anyone.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 1:15 utc | 240

uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 0:51 utc | 228
I think it was Bhadrakumar said Putin was a sophisticated thinker. That is a bit of an understatement.
Ritter is looking at this from a purely military op in Ukraine perspective.
Putin said that by the time the operation in Ukraine is finished, US hegemony would no longer exist (something along that line).

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 1:16 utc | 241

We’re talking about Russia right? How in the world could anyone think Ukraine had a chance against Russia?
Sanction Russia who doesn’t have to have anything from the EU but supplies them with everything they need to survive.
I’d say it was all about corruption but usually corrupt people don’t shoot themselves in the head. Could it be an epidemic of brain damage?

Posted by: Rabbit | Jun 10 2022 1:18 utc | 242

OhhCanada@233
Is it not likely that Russia’s kid glove tactics will change radically as they enter the OUN heartland? One reason would be that the enemy then will, as you seem to suggest, almost certainly be largely non-Ukrainian. And therefore be disqualified from referenda, elections or residence.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 1:20 utc | 243

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2022 19:25 utc | 108
A most intriguing take on the end of the Finland’s end of the second war. Finland calls it “The Continuation War” During the period of 1939-1945. One that was brokered by “FDR/Truman”. Using other peoples land for appeasement.
Sadly, history tells us that the only residents left in Finnmark. After , all the local residents all moved to west of the new national border. Was the war dead from the “Winter War” . A permanent reminder to the Soviet’s of two “Pyrrhic Victories”…………

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 10 2022 1:22 utc | 244

This is just ‘plausible deniability’ by the Americans as the Ukies use the new US/UK weapons to strike inside Russia. “Hey. Not our fault. They promised they wouldn’t do that. We had no idea they would use these long-range missiles to attack Russia.”

Posted by: Denis Saint Denis | Jun 10 2022 1:22 utc | 245

@195 Peter AU
here’s one blurb reporting this
https://t.me/anna_news/34125
Sounds like they might just be testing out new hardware/tactics… would be surprised if these fancy birds are actually sent in over UA. Situation calls for a flight of high altitude UAV’s with a very sensitive radar. Actually taking out S300 is already done with previous generation long range anti radar missiles, launched from whatever. Similar for the comparable vintage Patriot systems UA may get. The sort-of unfixable danger is use of air defenses set up for ambush in a mostly passive mode, especially in conjunction with search radar out of NATO territory. Doubt there’s ever going to be a Syria/Afghanistan/Iraq type situation where jets are just free to roam at 10000m altitude.

Posted by: ptb | Jun 10 2022 1:24 utc | 246

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 9 2022 19:45 utc | 117

I am certain Russia knows who is who in Ukr General Staff and has its ears and eyes inside which is why it has been able to identify many targets

I share the same belief. RF has been able to target NATO nation military re-supply despite extended periods of overcast which obscure satellite observation in many areas particularly regions outside the range of drones. RF also appears to have access to detailed damage assessments which result in repeated re-targeting of critical infrastructure until they are 100% sure of its destruction. The railway bridge enroute from Odessa to Romania being a case in point.
Bevin raises the issue of a coup attempt and suggests this is likely to derive from Azov or sympathetic military forces.
I disagree. My conjecture is that RF, if it does have sources inside the military hierarchy, will seek to delay any coup until they have achieved their SMO objectives. Once Azov and related forces have been destroyed in the field then the way would be clear for a RF 5th column to seize power. This delay weakens the nazi forces and increases the anti-nazi sentiment of the population thus facilitating a coup.

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 10 2022 1:36 utc | 247

The real culprit is the rampant corruption in Ukraine (this will be verified in an upcoming NYT special report replete with many unattributed sectet sources). It’s in the Ukie’s DNA after all as is wrll known. Despite our valiant and exceptional efforts to save democracy from the on-rush of Putin’s Hordes, the resulting collapse of the _elensky regime is not really a surprise. Although giving it the best East Coast elitist instituion “old college try”, it was an uphill battle, in effect fighting both the Russians and the Ukrainians simultaneously.
However, every dark cloud has a silver lining. In this instance Uncle Sam has Europe by the balls and can begin the big squeeze. The self-emasculated Euro-castrati will happily sing to the conductor’s tune, and the empire, although in somewhat reduced form will continue on for some while.
And now on to China.

Posted by: Vincent Berg | Jun 10 2022 1:39 utc | 248

Sushi@238
I was unaware of c1ue ‘reply’ until I saw this. He answers none of the main points. If he isn’t a lawyer he missed his vocation. The facts are that steel ploughs are a relatively recent invention. Steel was produced in very small quantities and almost none reached America in the C16th and C17th. None at all reached the indigenous people. They used iron axes for girdling trees not cutting them down. All these things are uncontroversial.
Frankly there is nothing in his creed worthy of reply, especially when read in the context of his original claims.
The use of girdling and fire to assart scrub and woodland was practised, I believe across Europe and elsewhere for centuries, during which millions of acres were turned into arable and steel associated with Damascus and swords.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 1:40 utc | 249

General Twitty speaking KISS to CFR Haass: “Buddy, we lost.”

Posted by: The Rev. David R. Gr | Jun 10 2022 1:43 utc | 250

@247 Nice summary. It just remains for the NYT to walk back all the Blue and Yellow flag-waving.

Posted by: dh | Jun 10 2022 1:48 utc | 251

Indeed. Victory has many fathers but defeat is an orphan.
The Conversation another pro-US pseudo academic website claims luck favored Putin in Ukraine.
Now an aid of the comedian president says troops loyal to Zelensky are losing 200 men each day. How did it jump from 100 last week to 200 this week? The real number must be 600 a day. Even promotional videos have 70 year olds among forces loyal to Zelensky.
Russia must go after Zelensky’s air force and power generation facilities.
It’s time Russia force its victory over Ukraine down the throat of western busybodies.

Posted by: Jason | Jun 10 2022 1:52 utc | 252

@239 Bevin:
First, thanks for the thumbnail of Chu Teh. I had done a quick bit of reading about him before I posted that note, but I did not know anything about him before-hand.
I think there are a number of important points about Chu Teh that would bear examination, and may have relevancy to the situation that young people find themselves in today.
Chu Teh came from a poor family, but was befriended and educated by an uncle. He traveled to Germany, at at university there became acquainted with a number of other figures who would play important roles in the founding and struggles of China.
There’s a lot more to learn about Chu Teh; what I find most interesting is the early going, Bevin; the key decisions, realizations, engagements that form the locus of a person’s perspective. The times also make the (wo)man, but I think Chu Teh made the times, too.
Chu Teh also either embodied or helped establish the force-of-character that seems to pervade the Chinese cultural capacity of Long March. Some of you have heard me mention that cultural trait, and I believe it’s important.
Some problems are way too big for an individual, or even a government. They take a society to address, and sometimes multiple generations of that society.
So, there might be quite a bit more to say about Chu Teh, and I’m probably not the right person to do the talking.
Lastly, Bevin, we barflies are very much profiting from the repartee between you and Scorpion.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Jun 10 2022 1:52 utc | 253

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 1:15 utc | 239
Then again , after the undeclared Soviet far East War. The great Japanese total rout at “Khalkhin Gol”. The Japanese invaders had a great shift in war priorities. As to who and whom were the greater threat………….

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 10 2022 1:58 utc | 254

@ karlof1 | Jun 10 2022 0:05 utc | 208
An excruciatingly key point Lavrov’s been repeating for awhile and did again in his most recent interview, paraphrased: The West (Outlaw US Empire) doesn’t listen to us, so we have no reason to waste our breath until the SMO’s goals are realized.
So the rest of the world doesn’t exist? Doesn’t matter? We have a conflict in world values, and other opinions, other understandings, matter, in Asia, in the South, and even in Europe. . .hearts and minds.
So we, and the world, are stuck listening to liar Blinken and his “unprovoked invasion” BS. Lavrov speaks English, as do many people in the world. Can we hear “provoked,” just once?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 10 2022 2:21 utc | 255

My advice: buy a used Prius. We have two 2004 models still getting 50mpg.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 10 2022 0:47 utc | 225

Just be sure to park that Prius in a secure location. From what I’ve been reading, older model Priuses are especially prone to catalytic converter theft, which is quickly reaching epidemic proportions (8000 in the Denver area since just the beginning of 2021, for instance). I’m not sure why newer models aren’t as affected; maybe there’s less palladium and other high-cost metals in their catalytic converters.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 10 2022 2:22 utc | 256

karlof1 | Jun 9 2022 23:08 utc | 194
re … PsyOp designed to get the American audience inured to…
As a not-so-side-note, a genuine H’wood $$$tar could be the irresistable lure to deal .gov favors, any favors. if it would boost recruitment into the .gov meatgrinder tentacles, overt and covert. Film is arguably the # 2 media to create/control what people “have in mind” that later can be “tickled” into their attention when #1TV won’t do it.

Posted by: chu teh | Jun 10 2022 2:24 utc | 257

ptb | Jun 10 2022 1:24 utc | 245
My guess is the SU-57 have the sensors. Most likely have the height to stay out of reach of BUK missiles that Ukraine would be useing though I don’t think much would get high enough to be out of reach for S-300 if there are any left.
This is the part I found interesting – “The planes were integrated into the information network through automatic communication systems, data transmission, navigation and identification in real time,” the source said.
The exchange of information between aircraft increases the efficiency of finding and destroying targets, the source added.”
They would no doubt be designed to be able to locate and destroy air defence systems and Ukraine with its air defences thinned out might be a good place to combat test them. Somewhere on twitter or telegram, I ran on to a pic of one over the frontlines.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 2:24 utc | 258

I see the headlines now: Faulty Intell – How the West got Putin Wrong.
Because afterall is said and done the western mainstream media narrative must always remain “all about Putin.”

Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Jun 10 2022 2:24 utc | 259

“You cannot go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent.” – Joe Tzu

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 10 2022 3:00 utc | 260

fyi
I can hardly believe, listening to Medvedev recently, that he was once upon a time one of the biggest ‘atlanticists’ in all of Russia. and now, boy is he pissed and swearing up a storm at nato/USA
https://twitter.com/SNMilitary/status/1534365612671225859
MI NEWS @SNMilitary
“US and Europe should pray every day for health and longevity for Putin, because the Person who will come after him has much less patience and a lot more anger. This War between Russia and NATO has woken up Russian bear Medvedev from its slumber.”
521 Retweets 2,335 Likes

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 10 2022 3:02 utc | 261

Don Bacon | Jun 10 2022 2:21 utc | 254
If Lavrov and Putin where in positions like Medvedev and Kadrov, they would be using similar terms. Once US is destroyed – the existential threat to the Russian Federation removed, both will most likely retire to the council Medvedev is on but there will be no major threat to speak their mind to.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 3:14 utc | 262

karlof1
I am a bit tired for a long read like that – Putin in the last thread – but skimming through it, it is the leader of the Russian federation I have come to know. A father figure to his nation. Totally ruthless to anyone that attacks it.
I spent most of my life until my eyesight went reading about wars and historical figures. I think he is very much one of those historical figures.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 3:21 utc | 263

“As a matter of principle death sentences are barbaric.”
And killing innocent civillians is a noble cause? You, Sir, are a gobshite.
Posted by: LizPuss | Jun 9 2022 18:05 utc | 75
In fact capital punishment is unnecessary, we will all get what we deserve in the end. Desire for personal revenge may feel righteous but isn’t. State murders create metaphysical problems to which you are are undoubtably unaware but are better avoided.
However the death sentence was no doubt a deterrent, would expect the sentences to be commuted.

Posted by: Organic | Jun 10 2022 3:23 utc | 264

I’m reminded of the Men at Work video, “It’s too Late”. At the end, a Russian general crushes his cigar on the button. Now? It’ll be the idiots in the US swatting at cockroaches in the oval orifice.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Jun 10 2022 3:25 utc | 265

I see the headlines now: Faulty Intell – How the West got Putin Wrong.
Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Jun 10 2022 2:24 utc | 258
Make that Fawlty Intell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1qAF8VAgVA

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 3:31 utc | 266

to all the McDonalds posts. reminds me of a song by a band called lazy boy. the facts of life. a whole series of wierd facts spoken as a song. one was that no countries that have McDonalds have had a war against each other. admittedly its from 1989. so maybe since then, but i always saw it as how the corporations own a nation and dont blow up their own stuff.
the rebranding/ownership of russian McDonalds goes in line with this fact of life.

Posted by: hankster | Jun 10 2022 3:39 utc | 267

Organic | Jun 10 2022 3:23 utc | 263
Bullshit. Those mercenaries went there to kill an ethnic group who’s language, culture and heritage had been criminalized. Make an example of them and that may get some killers for hire off the battlefield. Put their heads on pikes as a warning to others.
What fucking chance did those passengers of MH17 have? Their own fucking governments apart from the Malaysians were willing to sacrifice them. Put the fuckers heads on pikes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 4:01 utc | 268

Gruff – please stop embarrassing yourself. Step away from the keyboard. It is sad to see a once respected commentator reduced to yelling at the kids to stay off your lawn.
I am going to coin a new phrase, “grufftard”.
Feel free to use this as you see fit.
Posted by: David F | Jun 10 2022 0:17 utc | 212
So says a completely unknown commentator who hasn’t bothered to address the specific objectionable material from the said “Grufftard,” thereby exposing him/her/its self as a troll. Feel free to leave the forum.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jun 10 2022 4:07 utc | 269

Peter AU1 @ 227
The Russians have many options and that is one of them. If they pause operations after phase one and let the West stew in their sanctions for a while NATO will deteriorate further. Meanwhile Russia is reorganizing its supply chains and manufacturing base to cope which makes them stronger in the long run.

Posted by: circumspect | Jun 10 2022 4:08 utc | 270

700 000 troops sounds like a lot of paychecks to cash…..let’s just drop this on and report almost zero deaths

Posted by: OhCanada | Jun 10 2022 4:09 utc | 271

bevin #234
Yet again fine praise for Corbyn and rightly said. He has the patience of a samurai as do the Eastern leaders and people.
Thank you.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 4:15 utc | 272

AFP have put out a piece: “Ukraine has depleted its Soviet and Russian-designed weaponry and is now completely dependent on allies for arms to defend against Russia’s invasion, US military sources say.”
I encountered it on The Bangkok Post, which is a western-controlled outlet.
Going by the official Russian reports, kindly provided by RSH, this seems not to be the case so far.

Posted by: NotEinstein | Jun 10 2022 4:16 utc | 273

Remember of course the standard ‘book’ on American intelligence. America has strong SigInt. America has its spy sats. Technology-wise, America has always been strong. But the American weakness was always HumInt. America was never good at ‘human intelligence.’ The sort you get by infiltration and by simply talking to people.
Has this changed? American intel now has access to untold riches. Who knows how much has been squirreled away into one slush fund or another out of some dark op? We got a taste of that during Iran-Contra, and there is nothing stopping them from doing the same now. And, if you put people into a place where they can create a dark and unaccountable pool of money, human nature says they are going to do so, and that it will be as big as they can make it. They might call themselves Patriots, or simply think take the money and run, but they will almost always take the money.
So, with money, they can buy people. But, does that get you intelligence? It buys you politicians to do your bidding at the expense of their own nation. It buys you opinion makers and influencers who promote your cause. But, at some point, loyalty and patriotism on the other side puts a limit on how many people will sell out their own nation. You won’t be able to buy everyone, and if another side is wise on who they put into what positions, you might be limited on what you can achieve with only money. Especially if your side begins to look like the Evil Empire of the era.
But, do the Americans have good ole human intel? Especially the part where you talk to people and make friends? That was never an American strength since at least the 1970’s. And there is very little sign that the Americans have gotten any better than this. They still have their focus on sigint and tech. And, given the image of a modern American intelligence officer, its far easier to picture them blustering and threatening that it is to picture them using charm and friendship to find out what is going on. That just doesn’t seem to be in the CIA playbook. And, intel gained by torture, promoted by people like Gina Haskel, is notorious for being wrong. People who have sensitive parts connected to car batteries tend to tell you what ever gets the cables removed.
And, if you are facing a technological peer, and they have a long history of hiding their signals from American spy-eyes, and if they have known for at least a decade that a fight was likely to come because of your constantly belligerent and bullying attitude, then your SigInt might be telling you very little. Tapping Putin’s phone is not as easy as tapping Saddam’s, nor even Angela Merkle’s.
This is one of those things about now having to face a peer competitor. They have their own SigInt, and defenses against yours. And if you are weak on HumInt, you might find yourselves relatively blind. And, if the people on the other side have the deviousness of John LeCarre, you might find yourself confused by false info that they’ve been broadcasting just for you to hear with all your super-high-tech spy toys, and then you start to get to the point where ‘American Intel’ doesn’t know what to believe.

Posted by: Smiley’s Folks | Jun 10 2022 4:22 utc | 274

circumspect | Jun 10 2022 4:08 utc | 269
circumspect, that is my thought. uncle tungsten has some reservations but I think to counter that, Russia has flexible strategy. As you said many options.
circumspect, uncle t, and all others that comment here, times are getting interestingly more interestingly. Interesting times. The only thing that keeps me going now is that Putin has made his move. 20 years in the making since US pulled out of the ABM treaty.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 10 2022 4:33 utc | 275

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 9 2022 21:48 utc | 159
thanks that’s it in a nutshell.
is Smedley Butler really his name? Sounds like an episode of Fawlty Towers

Posted by: K | Jun 10 2022 4:38 utc | 276

@ 266 hankster – thanks for that track. Never heard of the lazy boys. slept with… (oops) on a bunch of them though.
thanks everyone.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 10 2022 4:44 utc | 277

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 9 2022 23:08 utc | 194
Mission: Impossible was an outstanding, 100% successful PsyOp designed to get the American audience inured to the CIA’s illegalities and to be indifferent to its activities which at the time were genocidal in Southeast Asia and South America. The same can be said of The FBI Story and a host of other TV programming.
Actually, the most spectacular success in this area was the US TV series about a serial killer who was a “good guy”: It was called Dexter.
The series appeared magically in 2006 and became a runaway success. The interesting thing was the context in which it appeared. By that time, Bush the Younger’s war in Iraq was not only a complete failure, no weapons of mass destruction found, but the the revelations of torture and rape such as at Abu Graib in 2004 and the regular plicy of bombing civilians in Afghanistan was starting to have a serious 60’s like effect on US civil society.
It was in this context that the show Dexter had such an important effect: It justified a serial killers tortures and slaughter because he only ever killed “bad guys”. Which eventually became “everyone he killed was by definition a bad guy”.
Mind you, there were other TV series such as 24 and other media methods that normalised the whole “perpetual war” business in the west. But from my own experiences at work water-coolers at the time, I used to be astonished at how effective the show Dexter was in “contexting” and therefore normalising US crimes in the ordinary people around me.

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 10 2022 4:44 utc | 278

Don’t blame me. It was like that when I got here. Honest!

Posted by: RoHa | Jun 10 2022 4:50 utc | 279

Peter AU1 #267
On pikes and heads thereon – there is a steel mill lying idle in Mariupol and manufacturing pikes would make a fine sustainable recovery. Last video I saw there were many slabs stacked looking for a roll. There is justice in it if one were a Zen warrior.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 4:52 utc | 280

moaobserver, 65:
> They were not mercenaries in the usual sense; having become Ukrainian citizens or there years prior to the invasion.
Yeah, I bet their hearts are beating real hard for Ukraina …

Posted by: Mr Y | Jun 10 2022 4:55 utc | 281

Zelinsky seems to be common topic on the comments. The Jew zelinsky with comedic popularity fooled the Ukrainians into electing him to make peace with Russia. The same can be said of the promoted Jew comics in the USA; Maher, Kimmel and all the rest. Comics preaching democracy, while promoting hatred.
Zelinsky is first and foremost an Israeli owned puppet, instructed by USA which always carries out orders. The rest in Europe follows.
That they have trained and funded Nazis to fight they’re fight is not usual. It is exactly the same as the Muslim terrorists they fund in the middle east, Africa and central Asia.
Russia would have absolutely no interest in blowing the hell out of zelinsky, as they could at any time. They want him, as the hero of the west to continue to make an ass of himself and the whole wide West.
The game played by Blinken, Macron, scholz, stolenberg and all the rest of those incompetent fools were only tolerated by Russia to show the rest of the world how much they did to reach an agreement. They always knew it was a scam and any negotiations by Turkey or whoever is just nonsense.
This is a war that Russia has already won.

Posted by: Karl luck | Jun 10 2022 5:09 utc | 282

Washington may be losing the battle in Ukraine against Russia, but they are winning the war. US And Europe just told their insurance companies not to insure Russian Cargo ships which means Russian ships aren’t going to be able to move anything around. Russia’s ability to sell and transport anything thru the oceans was just paralyzed. Good luck solving that problem.

Posted by: ArmoDude | Jun 10 2022 5:19 utc | 283

@ ArmoDude | Jun 10 2022 5:19 utc | 282 with the claim of stopping Russian shipping by withholding insurance
Maybe if they take their ball and go home some other country will start providing shipping insurance….poor folks can’t survive on merit, so sad

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 10 2022 5:25 utc | 284

Smiley’s Folks #273
Thank you and I surmise that the failed usa humint arose directly from the destruction wreaked upon the USA education of its children. They permitted successive political institutions to ratf#k their schools, colleges, universities and smash the teacher unions while stacking p&c associations with ideologues. Simultaneously the religious whacko gang were encouraged to have their own brainwash institutions who then dragged the curriculum planning into a pit of lowest common denominator.
If that wasn’t enough it was followed up with an intentional distraction to enable every thinkable ‘equality’ issue to be debated. Thus was the USA education and excellence program defeated.
Humint is gone, intellectual excellence degraded to shite, wide thinkinking narrowed to ‘walking the line’.
The USA media is the handmaiden of this destruction.
It will take a revolution to reverse it, if ever.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 5:38 utc | 285

circumspect #269
Yes that is indeed possible. I think, why waste a good winter come December 2022?
The victor could slow the pace and conduct a winter battle as in 1944 and that could be a means of clearing the minds of the westies all the way to the French channel as it should be called.
Just the thought of all those nazi huggers moving west to Poland and Germany and Austria and Belgium and even France is good enough for now.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 5:50 utc | 286

Armo Dude #282
24 hours will solve that. Plus the BIG insurers may find themselves becoming u able to carry cargo FROM Russia. Sad story for global shipping when there is no back loading.
Yet another hole in the foot. At this rate insurance premiums for shipping will quadruple in a month and that will reflect in inflation in the West, solve the traffic jams in Suez and Panama, destroy the ‘flags of convenience’ rort and inject expansion into belt and road.
🙂

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 10 2022 5:58 utc | 287

Posted by: bevin | Jun 10 2022 1:40 utc | 248
And just to add to your description of historical practices there exists nature’s effects in the form of wild fire due to lightning strike. Modern forest-fire fighting has difficulty controlling wild fire once established and it is highly likely that large burns acted to clear significant expanse of woodlands. Some species of pine create seed which can only be germinated via fire effects. For that adaptation to occur, and to permit the continuation of the species, suggests wild fire was a regular phenomenon.
The aftermath of the fire provides clear ground quickly taken up by fast growing species such as grasses, berries, and poplar and this micro environment would likely also host small game which would in turn provide foraging and hunting opportunity for aboriginal populations. c1ue omits these facts from his false historical narrative.
All the best

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 10 2022 5:58 utc | 288

Except for a military coup, I see no way for Russia to pull off de-nazification and de-militarization. That what I said in the beginning and still makes the most sense. And
even a military coup is no guarantee, how many pro-Russian generals are there now?
I always figured these aims were more aspirational than fully planned. What Russia actually provided troops for, justified by UN Charter, and got Chinese permission for, was a liberation of Donbas and Crimea, as it looks like they are accomplishing.
De-militarization would likely require taking over Kyiv, at minimum. They do not have the
resources committed, or likely permissions granted, for that.
The problem remains, how do you hold the Donbas and Crimea without the de-militarization
and de-nazification objectives? Only Kyiv can do those de-militarization, and it’s not clear if de-nazification is even possible.

Posted by: Charles Peterson | Jun 10 2022 6:20 utc | 289

ArmoDude | Jun 10 2022 5:19 utc | 282
“Russia’s ability to sell and transport anything thru the oceans was just paralyzed. Good luck solving that problem.”
You imperialtards keep getting that wrong – Russia doesn’t need to export anything to anybody. But your West absolutely needs Russia’s oil and gas, since you’re all on such a terminal gluttonous consumption-destruction binge.
At least open obstruction to trade like this attempt to ban insurance for Russian shipping further discredits the Atlanticist traitors within Russia and helps lay absolutely bare that any food shortages and famine across the South stemming from the war are 100% the deliberate effect of the West’s economic war of aggression against Russia.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Jun 10 2022 6:20 utc | 290

ArmoDude @ 282:
US and European sanctions against Russian cargo ships by denying them or the cargoes they carry insurance mean that there will be more incentive to use overland railway routes through Central Asia and China. This gives an advantage to China’s Belt Road Initiative.
Good luck to the US trying to hold down both Russia and China at the same time.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 10 2022 6:23 utc | 291

Its interesting that the MSM rags CNN doesn’t have Ukraine on the main page for the first time today (10.06.2022) even without any mention of the death sentence of the mercenaries.
BBC, by the way, reports “Ukraine losing up to 200 a day – Zelensky aide” — The “Zelensky says” has sort of gone.
Let’s see what would be there in the mid day. 😏

Posted by: ostro | Jun 10 2022 6:25 utc | 292

The North–South International Transport Corridor:
St. Petersburg – Moscow – Ryazan – Kochetkovka – Saratov – Volgograd – Astrachan – Aktay or Baku – Teheran – Isfachan – Bander-Abbas – Mumbai (Bombay).
This is a route from St. Petersburg to India via the Caspian Sea by various means of transport – auto, railway, sea. At the Caspian Sea, cargo can go through Kazakhstan (Baku) and Azerbaijan (Aktay) by sea or coast. (Have a look on the Atlas.)
By the way, this route was there all the time, one way or another.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 10 2022 6:29 utc | 293

By the way, the “west” is getting a bit worried in south pacific… https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/10/asia/shangri-la-dialogue-china-targeting-us-allies-intl-hnk-mic-ml/index.html
Neither Australia or Canada makes war planes, but China has its own industry. The “west” doesn’t really know about the Chinese war planes.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 10 2022 6:38 utc | 294

Listening to the last Ritter interview at Foreign Policy Review. Yes, he appears to have decided to interpret Lavrov’s remark about “de-Nazification of Donbass” to conclude that “Russia has reached a pain point” and may be satisfied with the territorial gains they have and explicitly he said “will be willing to terminate military operations with a Nazi regime in place in Kiev” and a “massive Ukrainian army” – to be explicit, he believes Ukraine has 700,000 men under arms in Ukraine today.
He thinks Russia started the SMO with 200,000 troops, may have suffered 20,000 casualties and may have replaced those with 60,000 replacements, leaving a total of 240,000 Russian troops on the line. He says that doesn’t mean Russia can’t win, it can, but as he explicitly puts it, “the war will go on forever” because “it takes a lot of fighting to take down 700,000 men, many of whom are equipped with the most advanced weapons systems in Europe and the United States”. He asks, “Does Russia want to do this?”
One of the interviewers quoted a Russian general as saying that Russia was taking almost no casualties. Ritter replied that he would tell that general to his face that he was lying. He then again states that M777 howitzers fire Excalibur rounds which are GPS guided – without mentioning that Russia has degraded GPS in Ukraine, allegedly even before the war started. He then claims “The Russians are being killed by the bushel full.”
Then he claims “Severodonetsk has not fallen, anyone who it has don’t know what they’re talking about.” So he’s explicitly calling the Russian MoD liars, although he admits that the residential area is under Russian control and only the industrial sector is a “brutal fight”.
Then he says while the Russians are slowed to a 100 meter advance, the Ukrainians are “bringing in a fresh brigade with modern equipment for digging a new line of fortifications.”
Now he goes on to insult Andrei Martyanov by claiming that Andrei says “Russia has total ISR, they see everything that moves” and he claims “then why is Ukraine still showing operational mobility on the front lines, Andrei? It means the Russians can’t see everything and they can’t kill everything”.
At this point I just stopped watching.
This shit is unacceptable. It’s bullshit. I’m no longer paying any attention whatsoever to anything Ritter says. He is cherry-picking his “facts” and glossing them over with his assertions about “combat reality”, which is little more than hand-waving.
Someone suggested The Duran needs to get Ritter and Martyanov on the show to argue it out. This needs to happen.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2022 6:40 utc | 295

Some two months ago it was supposed in these threads that Zelensky was in the US embassy in Poland,or in Lvov.So where is he reigning from now?Has been seen in Kiev,Kharkov,Butcha,others places near the frontline.
Everyday we hear from Russian MoD declarations about achievements of the SMO.All we have from the Ukranian side is blabla from Z,Kulyba,Aristovich,Melnyk.What does Ukri television and newspapers tell their public.Does AFU general staff give assessments of daily battles?
How come we know about unprepared slightly armed badly provisioned “cannon fodder” troops,and on the other hand highly NATO-trained battle-hardened soldiers fiercely resisting?Are those even under the same command?
A lot of questions I can’t get my head around.
Another one being the continued shelling of Donetsk civilian targets.Are they shooting from densely populated areas,holding hostages,or from very deep dug-in launching sites.How come the russians are not able to wipe them out with their precision missiles?

Posted by: willie | Jun 10 2022 6:44 utc | 296

Organic | Jun 10 2022 3:23 utc | 263
Ummm…who was the wealthiest person in the USA ever both sentenced to death and actually killed by the sentencing authorities?
Asking for a friend.

Posted by: chu teh | Jun 10 2022 6:50 utc | 297

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2022 6:40 utc | 294
There is no sense to listen to the Duran either. Alexander is also cherry picking, the Russians are always winning, the cauldron always closed soon, which it isn’t until today. Mercouris gives a good summary for beginners. But I can’t find new ideas or interpretations on his channel. This is the difference to moa.

Posted by: njet | Jun 10 2022 7:00 utc | 298

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 10 2022 6:40 utc | 294
There is no sense to listen to the Duran either. Alexander is also cherry picking, the Russians are always winning, the cauldron always closed soon, which it isn’t until today. Mercouris gives a good summary for beginners. But I can’t find new ideas or interpretations on his channel. This is the difference to moa.

Posted by: njet | Jun 10 2022 7:00 utc | 299

Aleph_Null | Jun 10 2022 0:37 utc | 221
“A key, ……..: Unflagging attacks on meaningful words and phrases. Delexification until nothing means anything, and nobody can say anything to anyone anymore”.
May I add one more word? Bidification ; nothing means anything, and nobody can understand anything anymore.
(Or is that Joe Tzu?)

Posted by: Stonebird | Jun 10 2022 7:07 utc | 300