Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 20, 2022

Ukraine SitRep - Lysichansk Cauldron - Sinking Morale - More Provocations

The former CIA and intelligence bigwig Graham Fuller predicts a gloomy outcome of the U.S-Russia proxy war in Ukraine. Gloomy for Ukraine, the U.S. and Europe:

Contrary to Washington’s triumphalist pronouncements, Russia is winning the war, Ukraine has lost the war. Any longer-term damage to Russia is open to debate.

American sanctions against Russia have turned out to be far more devastating to Europe than to Russia. The global economy has slowed and many developing nations face serious food shortages and risk of broad starvation.

There are already deep cracks in the European façade of so-called “NATO unity.” Western Europe will increasingly rue the day that it blindly followed the American Pied Piper to war against Russia. Indeed, this is not a Ukrainian-Russian war but an American-Russian war fought by proxy to the last Ukrainian.

Contrary to optimistic declarations, NATO may in fact ultimately emerge weakened. Western Europeans will think long and hard about the wisdom and deep costs of provoking deeper long term confrontations with Russia or other “competitors”of the US.

Europe will sooner or later return to the purchase of inexpensive Russian energy. Russia lies on the doorstep and a natural economic relationship with Russia will possess overwhelming logic in the end.

Europe already perceives the US as a declining power with an erratic and hypocritical foreign policy “vision” premised upon the desperate need to preserve “American leadership” in the world. America’s willingness to go to war to this end is increasingly dangerous to others.

All the above had already been said on this website in late February and March. But it is good to see that seasoned intelligence people are now coming to similar conclusions.

Two weeks ago I wrote that the Ukrainians will soon reach a breaking point. Today's 'clobber list' by the Russia Ministry of Defense has an additional part about Ukrainian troop loses that supports that take:

Since May 19, during the month, only the 14th Mechanised Brigade of the AFU has lost 2,100 persons who resulted dead and wounded. Due to low moral and psychological conditions, 800 persons destined for replenishing the losses of this unit, refused to go to the operational area and accused officers of incompetence, bribery and cronyism in paying money allowance.

About 100 servicemen of a reconnaissance unit of the 10th Mountain Assault Brigade have been relieved of combat duty and transported to Kremenchug for investigation.

A considerable part of the commanders of the 30th Mechanised Brigade of the AFU have abstracted themselves from managing their units and refuse to fulfil combat tasks. All kinds of pretexts are used for simulating illness. The majority of units have already been left without any officers.

A mechanized brigade has about 3,500 soldiers. In one month the Ukrainian 14th lost two third of its people. The replacements are not trained on mechanized equipment (tanks, APCs) that likely no longer exists and can only be used as unprotected infantry. It is no wonder that they reject to be send into a hopeless situation.

The Ukrainian leadership is still sending new units into the Lysichansk cauldron in the east. The Russians do not mind that. Their job is to "demilitarize" Ukraine. To enclose more troops in one swoop makes that easier.


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The distance between the red Russian held area at the the top to the one at the bottom at the most narrow gap is a mere 15 kilometer or some 9 miles. There is only one open road running through it from west to east which is used for pushing resupplies to the Ukrainian troops in Lysichansk.


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Currently fighting is taking place over Mykolaivka at the bottom of this detail map. Five kilometer north of it is the Lysichansk refinery. It will be the next target. The last road to Lysichansk runs directly north of it. When that road comes under direct Russian fire the cauldron will be closed and the boiling will start for those who are in it. For the ~20,000 soldiers in the cauldron it will mean surrender or die.

If that is still possible it will further lower the morale of other Ukrainian troops.

Ananke Group @AnankeGroup - 15:01 UTC · Jun 20, 2022

"We, soldiers of the 8th battalion of the 10th brigade, based near the city of Seversk. We appeal to you, Mr. President, Mr. Zaluzhny, and to the Ukrainian people [...] We demand the immediate rotation of our remaining troops, physically and mentally there are no more forces.
Embedded video


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It is interesting that the troops also appeal to General Zaluzhny, the top commander of the Armed Forces of Ukrainian (AFU). It is the first time I hear that. The idea to fight in Lysichansk until the end came from Zelensky and his civilian advisors. Zaluzhny has reportedly been against that. He wanted those and other troops to retreat and wage a more mobile campaign. That would have shortened the front line and given a chance to create reserves that can rest and prepare for a later counterattack. There are rumors that Zelensky's advisors are now lobbying to replace Zaluzhny as he has increased his media presence. They probably fear a coup.

The Russian side reported yesterday that it had killed 50 generals and higher officer of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a missile strike. The group was meeting to plan the further fight in the southern region of Odessa and Kherson. This now seems to have been confirmed:

Management Impact Solutions Consulting, LP - @MiExecSearch - 15:10 UTC · Jun 20, 2022

Russian Armed Forces beat out AFU generals, who were holed up in the rear. The military-civilian administration of Zaporozhye region confirmed results of a missile strike on AFU command post near the village of Shirokaya Dacha, 57 top-level officers were killed.

Last night, probably in response to the strike on the officers, the Ukrainians fired a missile against a gas and oil production platform in the waters near Crimea. The installation was damaged. Russia considers that to be a direct attack on valuable infrastructure within Russian territory and will likely give a strong response.

Yesterday Lithuania announced that it would immediately prohibit Russian goods under EU sanctions to cross from Belarus to the Kaliningrad enclave at the Baltic seas which is Russian territory. That is in breach of several international agreements which guarantee unhindered Russian access to the city. Russia has yet to announce a response to this new provocation.

Posted by b on June 20, 2022 at 16:47 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Robert @381--

Yugoslavians aren't white?!?

Peter AU1 @383--

Thanks for your reply, Peter! I was thinking along the lines of some sort of magnetic-pulse weapon of the sort described that will eventually relegate traditional artillery and missiles to the scrap heap. And my surmises about Russia's nuclear progress are also proven correct. I wonder if Russia is capable of producing a pulse that follows a ballistic trajectory or if its currently limited to linear.

Meanwhile, Scholz proves he's utterly deluded when it comes to all things Russian:

"In the chancellor’s opinion, Putin 'seems afraid that the spark of democracy could spread to his country' and thus has been 'pursuing a policy aimed at dissolving NATO and the EU.'"

And that's not the only delusion revealed by the article. Poor Germany and poor Europe.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2022 17:15 utc | 401

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 16:49 utc | 382

What color are Yugoslavs according to you? ¬_¬

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 21 2022 17:18 utc | 402

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2022 17:00 utc | 390

Thank you for your response.

"There are plenty here who would agree that Russia's goals for the Special Military Operation are precisely what the Russians have stated on numerous occasions, nothing more and nothing less.

"Sure, denazification, but I mean what do they really want?" ....."

Fair enough. I'll bite: what do you think, in practical terms, is meant by 'denazification?'
Is it the whole of Ukraine or the Russian-speaking areas only?
Are the larger geopolitical ramifications of this punch-in-the-nose to NATO just serendipity or part of the reason they waited so many years before embarking on this 'Special Military Operation?'

In any case, I'd agree that most here agree with 'denazification and demilitarization.' Well, even if they don't those of us who do will likely not have the same two notions of what that means in practice which also implies that we may not even have the same notion as to what those words exactly mean even if we agree that they well encapsulate the prime mission goals.


Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 21 2022 17:18 utc | 403

Here's the latest attempt to harm Russia's economy, "US wants to cap Russian oil revenues: The Treasury Department says it is working with allies to create a buyer’s cartel to pay less for Russian crude."
karlof1 | Jun 21 2022 16:53 | 385

Ooh, cartels and monopolies. The American Dream, The American Way. Screwing everybody in a big pile of love. You got to love that.

Posted by: Ironic | Jun 21 2022 17:20 utc | 404

Scorpion @398--

Yes, in a nutshell. That's why I provided the easy solution that they can't allow themselves to even entertain for that would be admitting defeat. Scholz, BoJo, and Biden provide hard evidence of the West's complete delusion and assimilation of their own BigLies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2022 17:26 utc | 405

Arne Hartmann | Jun 21 2022 11:25 utc | 301

"What will be the response of Russia to Lithuania blocking the passage of goods the Kaliningrad exclave? I can imagine a tit-for-tat blocking of the Baltics, land and sea blockade, which then turns into a stand off with NATO. Its literally tail wagging the dog."

Yes, they like their tit-for-tat. In general, I find this approach stupid and childish. Anyhow, I don't see how Russia can use a comparable counter-measure here. What leverage do they have on Lithuania regarding transport, or access?

But since this gentleman from Russia's security council made such a stark announcement, like "It will severely hurt Lithuanians", my guess is: Russia will make the lights go out in Lithuania by the end of this week. From what I read, Lithuania still gets something like 30 or 35% of its electricity from Russia. I believe they will just switch this off once the technical preparations for this step are done.

The inhabitants of the sand dune called Lithuania can call themselves lucky if that will be all for now.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jun 21 2022 17:34 utc | 406

Barofsky | Jun 21 2022 12:41 utc | 310

Thanks a lot! That's an excellent article. I saved the 2nd half of it for later, to read it while I'm having my last cup of coffee today. Great stuff!

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jun 21 2022 17:39 utc | 407

Scorpion @403: "what do you think, in practical terms, is meant by 'denazification?' Is it the whole of Ukraine or the Russian-speaking areas only?"

Being that one of Russian's goals is to roll NATO back to 1997 borders I think it is obvious Russia's intention with the SMO is not geographically restricted to the Donbass.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2022 17:40 utc | 408

"...You see, imo Russia lost much of the moral high ground when it chose to invade pre-emptively. So while i understand them, i try not to defend them too much..." et tu@386

It is difficult to quantify these things isn't it?
How many deaths caused by a Ukrainian assault on and probable-given the balance of forces- occupation of the two Republics would have been sufficient to move public opinion in the west against the tide of the media propaganda?

My guess is about a million and preferably women and children. And even then, given what the Mighty Wurlitzer got away with in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan, that is probably optimistic.

The problem with these sort of calculations is that they are unrealistic as well as amoral: Russia intervened, after the Duma had voted almost unanimously to recognise the Republics, after at least 14,000 casualties and uncounted numbers of disappearances and death squad visits. You can add, for example, the victims of the Nazi atrocity at Odessa's Trade Union Hall to that 14000.
And you can add thousands more killed in non-Donbas Ukraine too. And you should bear in mind that of the millions who left Ukraine for western Europe, not to mention the million or so who fled to Russia, many were fleeing from the Nazis.
In fact it is much easier to make an argument that the Russians were far too slow in taking military action. And western public opinion, which condoned a massive attack on the Libyan government after identifying precisely no victims of the Ghadaffi assault on Benghazi- which appears to have existed in his head only- would, to be fair to them, have been likely to have approved Russia's actions only if there had been a year long media strike. Or a political focus against NATO. Or on the night when a moon shone blue.

The truth is that the Russians, having concluded that NATO is ruled by cunning liars and that the entire Empire is characterised by its constant stream of lies and misrepresentations have also, and, evidently with considerable reluctance, observed that if you tell the man in the street or on the back of a Clapham Omnibus, in Peoria or anywhere in western europe, that a Nazi militia is a cuddly defence force and a reincarnated Gestapo is just so many Bobbies on the beat and that a drug addled comedian who recently made his living by beating his penis against piano keys is a Statesman on the verge of immortality, they will lap it up like cream in the cat's saucer.
In other words the Russians have given up on western public opinion which is nothing more than the response to the demagogue's call.
Haven't you?

Posted by: bevin | Jun 21 2022 17:48 utc | 409

@ Bobolinski | Jun 21 2022 14:20 utc | 334

I dont even know where to start with your post but I`ll address it as best I can. Re BLM. You are using the leader of BLM, a woman who usurped donated funds to buy her and her partners several million dollar mansions as an exemplar of Marxism?....Thats like me wearing a bone in my pierced nose and wearing a wolf head headdress an calling myself a doctor leaving out the "witch" part....then you go around screaming about fake doctors. People are not by definition what they proclaim they are
The BLM riots have well been shown to have in many instances local and federal police acting as "Agent provocateurs" to start the violence. Not always but in quite a few. We saw the same nefarious tactics during the capitol riots of 2021. BLM as it stands, is discredited by and large but its purpose was not to just "fk shit up"
Seems you have decided that anyone and anything you dislike or dont agree with is "Marxism". Thats just Fox news thinking. Marxist Billionaires?. Incongruous wordplay.
In this blog we (I) hope to find erudite scholarly thinking devoid of pet fears and phobias. The ideal is to make this world a better place, not to make it one where we wind time back to a period we liked the best. That timespace was terrible for the majority of its inhabitants too Im sure. Twas never paradise for the majority.

Posted by: DaVinci | Jun 21 2022 17:56 utc | 410

@ Rodrigo | Jun 21 2022 3:20 utc | 214

@ Pacifica Advocate 127

You mentioned Indonesia. If you're interested you should read "The Jakarta Method" by Vincent Bevins.... And by all means, Blum's classic, "Killing Hope." For shear terror and the nature of American air power, "Voices from the Plain of Jars," a collection of first person accounts.


Thanks for that, I'll put the book on "the list." Honestly, I am rather certain that everything covered by Blum is something I have already studied. Back in the years-before-the-Internet, I was a guy who frequented the "Used Books" stores on a daily basis--precisely because I was looking for cheap ways to feed my desire "to know".

Like i said: i've read (guesstimating, here) probably 1/3rd-to-3/4ths of Blum's book, over the years--online, in articles and excerpts. There is no question, here, that it's a devastating autopsy of the deaths for which the US is responsible.

My own recommendation is always "The Politics of Heroin in South-East Asia", along with "Stilwell and the American Experience in China." If one puts these two (one, a "dark history" book censored by the CIA; the other a "bright history" book embraced--and later, attacked, though not falsified--by virtually all mainstream Academics) together, one finds that there is a stark and unabashed culture of pointedly strategic "historical revisionism" in the US Seekrit Police (CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI, CFR, etc).

I recognize that both of those books are generally rejected by the far left as "bourgeois," but both are instrumental in recalibrating the current "historical amnesia" that afflicts "Western" peoples, in general.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 21 2022 18:01 utc | 411

You can take your critical race theory and shove it up your arse.
Do ya feel me, ya brainwashed dumb racist cunt?
MarkU | Jun 21 2022 17:14 | 400

Wow, you really got a hard-on for poor Robert, huh? But you seem a bit inexperienced, or maybe just confused? Because you don't seem to now where to put it.

Posted by: Ironic | Jun 21 2022 18:05 utc | 412

karlof1 | Jun 21 2022 17:15 utc | 401

Delusion all round. Putin has stated how it will end collapse of EU economy and governments. A few are now predicting the collapse of the EU in the coming winter. US perhaps some time after that. I see Texas wants a referendum on separating from the US.
I suspect we will not see much change in the SMO until the collapse of the EU which will remove some of Ukraine's current backers.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 21 2022 18:07 utc | 413

DaVinci

“ I don’t even know where to begin with your post”

How about you just read it and move on then? Nobody is making you read my posts. Why don’t you do what I often do and look at the name first and then skip over it if you don’t like or agree with that persons viewpoint. You are just part of the group of people here who form a tiresome echo chamber and try to shut people down for expressing their legitimate opinions. I did not call or use Cullors as an example of a cultural marxist. She identified herself as such. Get over it. Own it. You people are backing a black revolutionary movement that is akin to domestic terrorism. Sorts and Zuck are self absorbed Jews and use their money to stir up trouble often in an illegal manner.

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 21 2022 18:10 utc | 414

bevin @335
----
Thank you for a coherent indictment of capitalism. Hudson might argue that neoliberalism or neoclassical economics is not real capitalism, but it's hard to see where his classical free market capitalism can ever remain free of rentier parasitism. Regression appears inevitable absent hard limits on accumulation of capital and power.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 21 2022 18:13 utc | 415

@ Ironic | Jun 21 2022 18:05 utc | 412

What on earth is that stupid comment about? Everything to you is about homosexuality? projection much.

I got a bit intemperate I admit but I really hate racists. Some people are just totally obsessed with race, to those people everything is about race. The Nazis very worst feature was their obsession with race, they even rewrote their own history to conform to their own race-obsessed views. Just because it is pointed in the other direction doesn't make me feel any different towards SJW's and their damnable critical race theory, their rewriting of history to conform to their race-obsessed views and their insistence of reducing current affairs to a simplistic racial narrative.

Posted by: MarkU | Jun 21 2022 18:22 utc | 416

The Treasury Department says it is working with allies to create a buyer’s cartel to pay less for Russian crude."

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2022 16:53 utc | 385

Uhh so how's that work anyway? Third party country considered 'neutral' by Russia suddenly have money to buy lots of oils? How do they fool the Russians when they are the ones that'll have to count the volume they need to deliver?

Posted by: Lucci | Jun 21 2022 18:26 utc | 417

My suggestion to karlof1, Don Bacon, et al, is:

What do you think the response of NATO would be to a Russian invasion of the Baltic States (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia) followed by a massive concentration of military units on the Belorussian/Polish line--especially in consideration of the fact that all of these states have pioneered the Nazification that is currently being fought in Ukraine?

In the current environment (where NATO is abandoning Ukraine), my guess is that NATO will roll over.

But then, Article 5 does come into play: is this why Russia has held the bulk of its armies in reserve?

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 21 2022 18:29 utc | 418

Also:

I am buoyed by the presence of DebsIsDead, whom I have always found a valuable and meaningful contributor.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 21 2022 18:31 utc | 419

what you did was cherrypick her as a representative example. she isn't.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 21 2022 18:32 utc | 420

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 21 2022 18:13 utc | 415

agree, look at who would be enforcing those hard limits--the bought and paid for lackeys.it always seems to devolve to that.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 21 2022 18:33 utc | 421

What on earth is that stupid comment about? Everything to you is about homosexuality? projection much.
MarkU | Jun 21 2022 18:22 | 416

Ok, I'll give you a straight *lol* answer. No! Its about civility.

State your arguments and your disagreements, that's fine, just be civil about it. It's way nicer for everybody. And it would bring the extra benefit, of people like me, not wanting to make fun of you.

Posted by: Ironic | Jun 21 2022 18:45 utc | 422

NATO countries for the past three decades ... have never attacked a white country.

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 16:49 utc | 382

1999 Yugoslavia???

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 21 2022 19:15 utc | 423

You people are backing a black revolutionary movement that is akin to domestic terrorism. Sorts and Zuck are self absorbed Jews and use their money to stir up trouble often in an illegal manner.

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 21 2022 18:10 utc | 414

Lol no, we aren't supporting a cultural white, cultural reformist movement that is akin to cultural law enforcement.

We're just not ignorant enough to think it is "marxist" because a few cultural asian cultural left-wingers insist on calling it so in order to "culturally praise" two boogeymen at once.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 21 2022 19:15 utc | 424

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 4:38 utc | 235

Wow, just wow! Never read a comment with so many fallacies one after another, from strawman (too many) to ad personam.

No reason to reply to such fallacies. Sorry, you lost.

Only thanks for the laugh about the abiotic petroleum origin! You can dream on.

Ignorance can control nothing, not even your own life.

Posted by: Olivier | Jun 21 2022 19:34 utc | 425

Paul Greenwood | Jun 21 2022 17:01 utc | 392 and etc.

By NAZI (hence NATO) definition: ... Yugoslavian People are Mixed-Blood sub-humans. This is why the Third Reich set up concentration camps there during WW2. ... No different in the 1990s, when they pummeled their soil with Depleted Uranium.

NATO is a tool of White Supremacy.

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 19:51 utc | 426

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 19:51 utc | 426

If you don't approve of this definition, don't fucking follow it.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 21 2022 19:52 utc | 427

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 21 2022 19:52 utc | 427

Since when did I show approval of NATO's racism?

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 19:57 utc | 428

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 19:57 utc | 428

Implicit by making statements that follow the above-stated criterion, you could very well be covering for entirely forgetting Yugoslavia; you could be posing anyhow, or all of it.

If none applies my apologies, there's a shitton of trolls lately.

You appear out of the blue saying that NATO=white supremacism, but then you follow a nazi standard of "white" in your statements, by saying that "nato hasn't bombed any white countries" or somesuch.

Suspicious on its own, even more suspicious in context.

Posted by: Arganthonios. | Jun 21 2022 20:04 utc | 429

Argano@424

“ not marxists because some guys called it so”

No Patrice isn’t just some guy. She is one of the founders of BLM. Why do you people keep trying to obfuscate that? She said she was a trained (cultural) Marxist. She is not someone worth listening to in your opinion? Next up will will have Janes Revenge and they are already illegally harassing the SCOTUS Kavanaugh at his home. What terrorism will they come up with if RVWade is thrown out? Who is funding this group? Soros?

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 21 2022 20:08 utc | 430

Robert, MarkU, and others re: CRT

There are different components to CRT, some of them are historical, legal, and sociological. There are also different elements that are political and apply the historical, legal, and sociological underpinnings to a political agenda which manifests itself in various educational applications, electoral projects, and legal reforms. I believe those two aspects can be separated. Someone made a similar post related to Marx's analysis of political economy and the political agenda that was created to rectify the problems that Marx's analysis uncovered or elucidated or whatever.

CRT's legal foundations are pretty solid, although one can quibble with certain aspects of the scholarship. Read Derek Bell or Ian Haney Lopez for some good legal foundations. The historical and sociological aspects are as valid as any historical construct or sociological theory (from solid to shaky depending on the concepts and the scholars). The political agendas are up for debate. Take the idea that in order to achieve a more equitable society which does not perpetuate the school-to-prison pipeline school districts should eliminate 'F's thereby eliminating failing students and increasing graduation rates. The Northshore School District in the Seattle area just approved such a policy. One can agree or disagree with that policy (I disagree, and instead believe that society should simply invest more resources into early education (effective remediation and intervention in the K-8 grades), but just because one does not agree with that policy does not mean that the other components are not true or valid. The historical, economic, legal, and political realities that underpin underperforming students' lives are real and highlighted by CRT, and while debatable, are mostly backed up by evidence and facts. The application of those facts to a political or policy based solution is different.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 20:08 utc | 431

@Objective Observer #244

Capitalism (which is only profitable when the owners are able to contravene the very base tenets of Capitalism i.e., perfect knowledge and equal access to markets, coupled with a fair spread of wealth and the just rule of law)
Did you mean to write "only profitable" under those conditions? Because those conditions don't exist now but yet there are lots of profits being made. And one of these basic "tenets" is required for capitalism or for profitability. Matters like "fair spread of wealth" and "just rule of law" are also baselines for any other economic system, i.e., are not particular to capitalism.
Communism (which provides for democratic governance and the spreading of resources and labor from each according to ability and to each according to need)
Democratic governance? Where does it say that? There is the dictatorship of the proletariat, and then some vague and meaningless assurance that this will give rise to a classless society, which it never has (and obvously never will), so you are stuck in perpetuity with the "dictatorship of the p̶r̶o̶l̶e̶t̶a̶r̶i̶a̶t̶ ( oligarchy.
I mean does Marxist theory really support Lenin's vanguard
What is Marxist theory? As a political economist he mostly analyzed and critiqued capitalism, and came up (or embraced and extended) some valuable economic theories like the labor theory of value, the theory of surplus value and the nature of competition. The most doctrinaire of his alleged writings was the Communist Manifesto, though I tend to credit the view that Engels was the principal author. In any event Marxist theory is not really Communism, Communism is based on the Communist Manifesto and by "Marxists" (not Marx), who transformed many of the pillars of Communsim as expressed in the Communist Manifesto (destruction of the nation, family and religion) into various "critical theories", all of which seek to undermine those very institutions, i.e. to destroy Western civilization and to subjugate all human nature (to oligarchic tyranny).
And the current bogeyman of CRT and cultural Marxism are not really Marxist at all.
Absolutely wrong, they are, and I repeat myself again, focused on the three of the four pillars of Communism that most layman Communists simply ignore: destruction of the nation, religion and the family.
And really, how much profit is made when everybody knows the true worth of all products and has equal access to those markets, political power and the law - not much.
You don't need a lot, just more than nothing (after adjusting for risk).
So capitalism is just a philosophical tool to justify oligarchs and 'elite' control, just as Communism can justify a similar end result that is far removed from its philosophical moorings.
Capitalism was never a (completely destructive of all historical human institutions) theory developed and preached by the oligarchy. Capitalism just happened, as, unlike the Communist dystopia, it is a natural development of human activity. Even primitive societies had capitalism, esp. if you want to include slave labor but even if you don't, but no society ever before in history destroyed the tribe/nation, the religion, and the family. Such a society simply cannot survive, nor should it.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:09 utc | 432

Arganthonios. | Jun 21 2022 20:04 utc | 429

No suspicions are necessary with me. ... There are probably few Russia and Serbian defenders in my community than me (going back decades ago). And I am neither of Russian or Serbian decent.

Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 20:08 utc | 431

I know little, if anything, about CRT. ... But, I certainly know Anti-Slavic, Anti-African, Anti-Arabic, Anti-Asian, Anti-Hispanic, etc. racism when I see it. ... Especially, when it is at the institutional, high level, and systematic manner that is carried out by NATO.

NATO is a tool of White Supremacism

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 20:21 utc | 433

Et Tu | Jun 21 2022 16:53 utc | 387

Thank you. While attempting to sidestep and obfuscate, you conclusively proved my one and only point, that you refuse to acknowledge US/NATO starting the conflict in Ukraine. You first doubled down, then sidetracked, and finally, kinda sorta backtracked with some incoherent rambling "mistakes were made, plenty of blame to go around" bs.

"NATO/EU recklessly causing trouble" on one hand, becomes "Russia turning a frozen local conflict into a full blown war and precipitating the world into a major crisis".

1) Nazi slaughter of civilians in Donbass was not "trouble" and it was hardly "frozen". It was ongoing genicide, accelerating in mid 02/22.

2) It was and is not a "full-blown war." Study US/NATO wars of aggression in the last 20+ years to understand the difference. OTOH, the US is indeed attempting to escalate this into a full blown war. Lithuania is just the next pawn up for sacrifice.

Tu: "...good luck convincing me Europeans would have been reacted the same way, banning all of Russia, sending Ukraine weapons, cash etc, after seeing their Army slaughter civilians in the Donbas with a full scale assault."

HUH? You make no sense (by design?). That's exactly what US/EU did. The Ukrainian Nazis they sponsored and armed, slaughtered 13,000 to 22,000 civilians in the Donbass prior to Russia's SMO, then US/EU did everything you just listed when Russia finally intervened. I'm now fairly sure you can't be convinced of anything.

Tu: "...then sorry, calling me a troll will not make you right, let alone smarter or wiser, though i always appreciate useful feedback and intelligent debate :)"

Right. I had not called you a troll before, but you've now convinced me.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 21 2022 20:26 utc | 434

A) Because Germany didn't participate in the war on Ethiopia, which made it a typically European war of colonial conquest--essentially a localized conflict between two independent nations with one far inferior in terms of technology to the other.
So what? Germany also did not participate in the war against China, which you seem to think is the start of the World War, even though that, too, was an isolated "colonialist" war. As I noted previously, up until the day of Japan's invasion (and for some time thereafter), Germany was supplying military equipment and training and helping develop industry in China.
B) Because the Alliance against The Axis hadn't yet taken form, so there were no European countries which took part in resisting the Italian aggression against Ethiopia.
Not true, France and UK sanctioned Italy for the invasion of Ethiopia. The principal reason they did not do more is because they were hoping that Italy would join their alliance against Germany, which had already formed, in fact never disbanded after WW I.
C) Because Japan (the key Asian mainstay) had not yet joined The Axis powers.
The Axis alliance did not take form until the signing of the Tripartite Pact in 1940.
To be a "World War," the "World" as currently known must be participating in a wide-ranging war.
Exactly, and Japan vs. China does not qualify. The declaration of war by UK and France against Germany qualifies as it brought all of their colonies into play, and those colonies were a substantial portion of the world.

Anyway, I don't care to debate this issue further, I agree to disagree.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:27 utc | 435

@Peter Fenton #262

This CalDre twat really needs to go. Or at least ignore the virulent shyte…
Why Peter, using such sexist misogynistic language, you should be ashamed of yourself!

As to my "virulent shyte", as to all partisan losers, you focus on my response to aggression, and not to the resident bullies that elicited that response. So I couldn't care less what you think, and why don't you try to "make me" leave, tough guy? Because I don't care what tyrannical mysoginists like you think.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:33 utc | 436

Game on, CalDre.

Psyche...not really. First, Communism, as imagined, has never actually happened on the planet. That is, a society transforming from Capitalism, through Socialism, to Communism via full industrial development and proper education. Maybe China is on that pathway, but there's evidence to both support and contradict the idea that notion.

However, the most valid example is Cuba. While there is only one political party, and the its constitution calls it a socialist republic, if you look at how the county is governed on a practical level, it is done by local community councils that make decisions democratically. I admit that the Cuban government limits some freedom of speech based on a political and economic reality that certain beliefs are closely associated with a foreign power that is actively trying to destroy it - a right which every government arrogates to itself. Nevertheless, Cuba mainly runs itself through local democratically decided elections, and those elected administer the duties of government (education, health care, municipal day-to-day operations) in a way that allows them to be answerable to their electorate.

Marx, while skeptical of democracy in many ways, participated in democratic processes and supported many of the rights found in the US Constitution and the UN Dec of HR. Yes, he questioned and interrogated bourgeois concepts of the family and the hierarchical and slavelike notion of religion as practiced until his time. Fair to oppose those components of his beliefs.

Try reading Marx with an open mind realizing that he and Engels were writing because they walked through the burgeoning industrial cities of Europe horrified that the workers (almost everyone at the time) literally walked through piles of shit every day while just blocks away, the wealthy lived lives of opulence without care (think Washington DC).

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 20:38 utc | 437

Are you sure the UAF is responsible for that? Do you think they have complete control over all the nationalist, territorial, foreign and other militants operating in the area?

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 20 2022 17:41 utc | 17

It's irrelevant. It is their duty to assert control not to feign uselessness.

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 21 2022 10:34 utc | 292

So each government is responsible for every crime on its territory, whether it can stop it or not? Not just for every murder, rape and robbery, but every terrorist act? By that logic, Russia was responsible for the Beslan school massacre, not just because it occurred on its territory, but because the terrorists themselves came from the Russian Federation?

Unlike common mystique, government is not all-powerful. And that is true particularly of the Ukrainian government.

I don't know if the Ukrainian government actively or passively supports or opposes the shelling of Donetsk, I haven't heard any statements on it, so at least we can rule out actively supports or opposes, but I simply asked a question, and, indeed, the answer does matter. It matters a lot.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:39 utc | 438

@Arganthonios #308

In my opinion you are not debate capable, or intellectually capable. Write whatever garbage you want (and it is all putrid, rotting garbage, every bit of it), and be happy!

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:45 utc | 439

Robert @ 433

How can NATO be a White Supremacist tool? Lloyd Austin is African-American, right? And if you look at support for NATO's operation and the sanctions against Russia, fully 12% of the world supports it. It's just a coincidence that the 12% is white and the 88% not so much. Consider your argument is demolished.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 20:48 utc | 440

"I am buoyed by the presence of DebsIsDead, whom I have always found a valuable and meaningful contributor."

Pacifica Advocate | Jun 21 2022 18:31 utc | 419
_____

DebsIsDead is a hopium buzzkill, yet I must agree.

In my hopium dreams, Syria was the theater where RU would legally demonstrate its "technical means" to evict the illegal US occupation and take out a few of those unlawful Israeli F-35s. I wonder how they'd stand up to lasers and EMPs. Could still happen. Whenever I think Russia could've planned or timed things better, I embarrass myself.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 21 2022 20:53 utc | 441

@MarkU #347

"Verdict is out on "peak oil" vel non, I suppose you've never heard of the theory of abiotic petroleum origin?"
So you have fallen for that garbage have you? How very revealing.
Clearly even basic reading comprehension is beyond your reach. Read the three words "Verdict is out" over and over and over again - maybe ask someone nearby for help to grasp this concept.
Part of that rubbish is a strawman argument
That's it, your genius scientific arguments have convinced me that oil comes from dead algae and humans come from ... live alage. It's all settled. If only the science textbooks could be as knowledgeable and eloquent as you!
We are being asked to believe [ nonsense snipped ]
Obviously you don't understand the theory, its origins or the support for it. So you try to denounce something you know absolutely nothing about. More true science from our resident genius!

And let me repeat the one true thing you wrote, but about yourself: You have clearly not thought any of this through, you clearly know little or nothing of science, you are clearly one of the vast majority that never cares to use their critical faculties when they are told something agreeable to them.

Oh, and you are also a f*** asshole. Maybe next time, try to make your point with all the (utterly misplaced) arrogance, rudeness, condescension and ... well, ignorance, but you surely won't be able to get rid of that.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:56 utc | 442

Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 20:48 utc | 440

Imperial Japan served as a (non-white ally) tool of German White Supremacism in WW2 too. ... This is easy to explain.

Most 'support' for Russian Sanctions and NATO are from the 'official government leaders' of countries. ... It is clearly demonstrable that the general populations often (especially these days) do not agree with their 0.1% leaders. ... In the US we call this 'out of touch' government. ... Again, this is easy to explain.

NATO is a tool of White Supremacy

Jens Stoltenberg is a KKK klansman in a three-piece suit.

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 20:58 utc | 443

Robert @ 443

Sorry to be so flippant...I was being ironic which doesn't always make itself apparent in text.

Didn't the Germans make the Japanese 'honorary aryans'? So it's all good, right?

Also, you should read some of the US court decisions in the late 19th/early 20th century where the judges try to determine who is white and who is not. They are confusing and contradictory...crazy shit.

I appreciate your point that a large portion of the populace in the West does not support what their governments are doing, but until I see more huge marches in the streets (thanks to some Belgians for getting out in droves) and more pushback in public ways, I'll still group them all together.

Here's too ya!

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 21:05 utc | 444

Too many dang typos in all my recent posts. I'll try to clean them up a bit.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 21:06 utc | 445

Maybe next time, try to make your point with all the (utterly misplaced) arrogance, rudeness, condescension and ... well, ignorance, but you surely won't be able to get rid of that.
Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:56 | 442

Oh, you are funny. That ironic self-mocking humor you have, it truly is... an art form.

Posted by: Ironic | Jun 21 2022 21:10 utc | 446

Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 21:05 utc | 444

As an American, unfortunately we have lost the Greek Classic education. ... Hence, I must suffer from not recognizing Irony. ... (However, Comedy, Tragedy, and Parody seem to come easy to me.)

Keep banging on. ... Eventually the swell of support will manifest itself in the streets and elsewhere.

And don't forget,

Jens Stoltenberg is a Self-Licking Ice Cream Cone

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 21:12 utc | 447

@ Bemildred | Jun 21 2022 16:27 utc | 375 quote

"And one of the reasons I rarely dispute anything on the web anymore, it just is a lot easier if you understand that it is not about you."

thanks bemildred... if this thread is any example, you are taking a wise approach which i am taking too! i commend you for it! cheers..

@ Paco | Jun 21 2022 16:29 utc | 378

thanks paco.... i have a friend who is a canuck living in bogata... he is happy too... thanks for the Chico Buarque song which i hadn't heard before.. of course he is a real poet and because you can speak the language, you get to appreciate that first hand, unlike me!

Scorpion | Jun 21 2022 17:02 utc | 394

thanks scorpion... fascinating again! i haven't been to that part of mexico.. that is not entirely true.. in 1985 i took the train from mexico city to merida with my girlfriend at the time.. we passed thru parts of veracruz state... sounds like a fascinating place and journey you are on.. i wish you every success navigating all the various people and places and the language too, not to mention the jeep you have... you will have no time for moa if you aren't careful! cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2022 21:21 utc | 448

"...Democratic governance? Where does it say that? There is the dictatorship of the proletariat.."
CalDre
It is a very simple concept: in class society the ruling class governs in its own interest. In capitalist society the capitalists rule in the interests of themselves and, of course, their system. That would be a Bourgeois Dictatorship- which is what, in reality, there is all around us.

When the working class takes power it governs in its own interest which are also those of the great
mass of humanity. This is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat or the people.

With the abolition of private property in 'the means of production, distribution and exchange' (to use the Fabian formulation which used to grace the Party membership card of all Labour Party members) class society loses its basis. With the abolition of classes, therefore, the Dictatorship of the Proletariat become democracy. The rough details of which Marx descried in the Paris Commune.
It should be unnecessary to add that given the environment of sanctions, boycotts, military attacks and constant guerrilla incursions the Soviet Union was unable to progress even into the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 21 2022 21:52 utc | 449

She is not someone worth listening to in your opinion?

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 21 2022 20:08 utc | 430

Bingo. At least not on that particular issue. Much less as passed on by some internet rando who's polluting this space with vote-trawling for gringo politicians.

Told ya before: The US of A is no point of reference for defining marxism.

I can say I'm a trained plumber all I want, doesn't make me one.

******************************************************

Capitalism just happened, as, unlike the Communist dystopia, it is a natural development of human activity. Even primitive societies had capitalism

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:09 utc | 432

False.


1)
Market and financial activity don't constitute capitalism. Even the existence of capitalists themselves doesn't constitute capitalism on its own. For an economic system to constitute capitalism, a state where the bourgeoisie is the dominant class is required. This doesn't happen in western history until the french revolution (or equivalent), which took place exactly to make the bourgeois class dominant (and which is unfinished since monarchies still exist)

2)
Your desire to sate a sociopathic greed is at most, just as natural as my (and many others') desire to stop you.

Bourgeois economic and political treatises detailing how to conduct policy don't spring forth from the earth, they're not "natural"; they're the work of human art.

3)
Communism looking like a dystopia to a supremacist clown like yourself is not a bug, it's a feature.

We're coming for your toothbrush, whitey.

*************************

In my opinion you are not debate capable, or intellectually capable. Write whatever garbage you want (and it is all putrid, rotting garbage, every bit of it), and be happy!

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:45 utc | 439

Oh noes!

A nazi who can't tell one arsecheek from the other doesn't approve of my comments!

What will I ever do now?

cries in communist

***********************************

Oh, and you are also a f*** asshole. Maybe next time, try to make your point with all the (utterly misplaced) arrogance, rudeness, condescension and ... well, ignorance, but you surely won't be able to get rid of that.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 21 2022 20:56 utc | 442

Pot, kettle.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 21 2022 22:36 utc | 450

Also, you should read some of the US court decisions in the late 19th/early 20th century where the judges try to determine who is white and who is not. They are confusing and contradictory...crazy shit.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 21 2022 21:05 utc | 444

"White" is whatever racists feel like in a given decade.
The "honorary aryans" thing as you said, also status of people like the Irish at some points.

More or less the same for "black".
There are many people considered "black" in the USA, which may be afro-descendents, but wouldn't pass as black FOR SHIT in many places in the old world.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 21 2022 22:44 utc | 451

The military operation continues and requires information silence until it is over.

Country 404 MOD to hide the latest complete rout over the fight to retake "SNAKE ISLAND" !

Country 404 COMEDY propaganda writers are now dredging the bottom of the barrel, to hide the super fails.... lol

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 21 2022 23:12 utc | 452

"10th Mountain Assault Brigade"

??????

This is a Ukrainian military which has been entirely obsessed with a war with Russia for the last 8+ years. And of course, anyone capable of reading a map (which does exclude most US college grads), can see that this means fighting across the open steppes and crossing big, wide rivers. If they knew they were going to fight NATO/ISIS style in the cities, they could have those sorts of Urban brigades which specialize in fortifying hospitals and schools. They could even include some Burt Reynolds style 'Gator' swamp boats if they thought they were going to fight Belorussia across the Pripyat Marshes. But, a 'mountain assault brigade?'

Do borrow a famous military phrase, someone appears to have pre-planned to attack in the other direction. They apparently want to break into Transylvania, which is the other direction from Russia.

I wonder if this unit was like the George Dubya Bush Texas Air National Guard where the people who signed up thought that they'd be safely far away from the fighting? Did this mountain assault brigade expect to be safely on the other side of the country from the scary Russians? Just goes to show, never believe a military recruiting sergeant.

Posted by: Charlie Chaplin | Jun 22 2022 2:31 utc | 453

"Lithuania trying to tap-dance its way out of the situation by saying it broke the treaty to obey illegal sanctions. "
@Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 20 2022 21:26 utc | 100


I'll assume that in the end the Russians will still enforce the rules from the last great eruption of fascism .... "Just Following Orders" is not a legitimate defense.

Posted by: Charlie Chaplin | Jun 22 2022 2:33 utc | 454

Twitter
Richard Hanania
@RichardHanania
·
1h
The US has so little reason to be in Syria that it's bombing itself to have a mission.
Quote Tweet

CNN NationalSecurity
@NatSecCNN
· 6h
BREAKING: A US Air Force service member arrested in connection to insider attack on base in Syria that injured 4 Americans, @barbarastarrcnn reports
https://cnn.com/2022/06/21/politics/air-force-syria-arrest/index.html

I remember, there was a report of explosion(s ?) in Tanf area, where contrary to Hanania, Americans have dual mission: blocking the best road from Damascus to Baghdad and running an orphanage for abandoned jihadists. Super boring missions in the middle of a desert, soldiers go bonkers...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2022 2:36 utc | 455

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 21 2022 17:00 utc | 391

Thank you, William Gruff. I would add to your reflections that when the Russians said that they had no choice, that was totally believable in my book -- and who said back to them 'O yes,friends, partners, you do have a choice, here it is'? Nobody. Because they agreed; they were giving no choice. There was no dialogue. Nobody sitting down and saying this or that was on the table. That is what is so horrible, horrible and shameful.

All that Russia is doing is reacting defensively to increasingly offensive actions threatening their existence, as they threaten the existence of Ukrainians only longing for that existence in their own homeland. That's what existential means!

And people, if you don't know this is what is happening, I'm very sorry but you are very, very lost.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 22 2022 6:29 utc | 456

@ Doug Hillman | Jun 21 2022 20:53 utc | 441j

I just watched an impassioned Palestinian journalist give an interview on G. Galloway's "MOAT". He hammered, repeatedly, on how Russia hasn't intervened to stop Israeli attacks on Syria, and has even coordinated to allow those attacks in some instances.

Meanwhile, Nasrallah has laid out a stark and bold demand: the Israelis must remove the drill-rigs from Lebanese waters or Hizb'Allah will take military action and destroy them.

Nasrallah doesn't make idle threats, and if such action is taken then it is likely that this time Iran, Syria, Hizb'Allah, and Gaza will all join in coordinated offensive action against Israel.

I would not be surprised if we see Israel disappearing some time in the near future.

@ William Gruff, 391
@ juliania | Jun 22 2022 6:29 utc | 455

Well said. I shall add those to the list of engrained lies propagated by the Western Oligarchs, and am embarrassed I didn't include it on my own.

There is an entire three generations of 'Merkins who have grown up believing that "War of Aggression" == "Spreading Democracy and Building Peace".

One of the core tenets of Confucianism is the idea of "Rectifying Nouns"--that is, making sure that the meaning of any particular word (noun) maintains an accurate meaning throughout its use.

These days, "Spreading [Democracy]" almost never means the spread of actual "democracy", but try and tell that to the 'Merkin hoi polloi.

Lies, lies, and more lies...America is a pathological, Narcissistic liar.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 22 2022 7:52 utc | 457

I wonder if this unit was like the George Dubya Bush Texas Air National Guard where the people who signed up thought that they'd be safely far away from the fighting? Did this mountain assault brigade expect to be safely on the other side of the country from the scary Russians? Just goes to show, never believe a military recruiting sergeant.

Posted by: Charlie Chaplin | Jun 22 2022 2:31 utc | 453

well, the people in Bush's unit weren't lied to; they were safely far away from the fighting.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 7:57 utc | 458

@bevin %449

It is a very simple concept: in class society the ruling class governs in its own interest. In capitalist society the capitalists rule in the interests of themselves and, of course, their system. That would be a Bourgeois Dictatorship- which is what, in reality, there is all around us.
All societies are class societies.
When the working class takes power it governs in its own interest which are also those of the great mass of humanity. This is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat or the people.
LOL, you quoting scripture, bro? Have you looked around at this "working class"? They are incapable of ruling even a single neighborhood in Seattle. And regardless of what you fantasize about the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, everyone has seen what it means in reality: terror, genocide, death and destruction. Working hard to achieve those goals, hmm, comrade?
It should be unnecessary to add that given the environment of sanctions, boycotts, military attacks and constant guerrilla incursions the Soviet Union was unable to progress even into the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.
Sanctions? You mean gifts and generous loans. And it isn't just the USSR that ended up in totalitarian terror - every single Communist movement has reached that stage. And always will. Because that is it's real goal.

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 22 2022 8:07 utc | 459

Posted by: CalDre | Jun 22 2022 8:07 utc | 458

Which genocide, b!tch?

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 22 2022 9:54 utc | 460

And people, if you don't know this is what is happening, I'm very sorry but you are very, very lost.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 22 2022 6:29 utc | 455

Exactly!

Posted by: K | Jun 22 2022 10:22 utc | 461

Beyond the fact that such a cartel wouldn't be workable is where Russia needs oil to be selling at a minimum to satisfy its budgetary needs--$40/bbl. Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 21 2022 16:53 utc | 386

That was a while ago, and one has to allow for inflation that is no longer negligible. A "cartel" seems to exist, the first publicly announced member is India, happy to pay quite a bit more than $40, $70? paid in rupees, and even so, earn some money by selling the products like fuel oil. In other words, "cartel" membership requires staying away from "unfriendly countries".

The recent big drop in oil prices may reflect the conviction on the global market that schemes to reduce Russian oil sales will not be effective. Enough Asians and African buyers happy to be in the "cartel".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2022 12:23 utc | 462

So for the record, while on balance of course i consider NATO and EU much more responsible for this mess, it doesn't mean the other party is entirely blameless. And if people can't understand that, then sorry, calling me a troll will not make you right, let alone smarter or wiser, though i always appreciate useful feedback and intelligent debate :)

Posted by: Et Tu | Jun 21 2022 16:53 utc | 387

A priori, this is sensible position, no side is ENTIRELY blameless. However, one has to touch the facts a bit deeper. Given increasing stream of weapons to Ukraine, increasing repression directed at "pro-Russians", increasingly militant statements by Ukrainian government, resolute rejection of any consideration of legit imitate interest of people in Donbass (free and occupied), what course of action for Russia would you recommend in the spirit of intelligent debate?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2022 12:33 utc | 463

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2022 12:33 utc | 462

Sudden overwhelming force is an appropriate response to abuse.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 22 2022 12:38 utc | 464

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2022 12:33 utc | 462

Sudden overwhelming force is an appropriate response to abuse.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 22 2022 12:38 utc | 463

This is open to debate, let us wait at the alternative answer by Et Tu. (I guess this handle refers to "et tu, Brute" in the response to the application of sudden overwhelming force by Marcus Junius Brutus and his fellow conspirators).


Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jun 22 2022 13:25 utc | 465

D-day was not delayed. Answer my two points about ports and landing craft and then try and claim it was

https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2019/07/06/d-day-more-difficult-than-you-think/

Posted by: Patrick Armstrong | Jun 23 2022 21:24 utc | 466

Debisdead.. is this the survey in Murika to which you refer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYTEkPjJOW0

Posted by: Thomas Turk | Jun 27 2022 3:23 utc | 467

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