Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 29, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-99

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on June 29, 2022 at 15:00 UTC | Permalink

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Turkey was requesting extradition of a certain imam for decades, since Clinton let him into the US. He lives in a mansion and operates charter schools in the US, paid for by US taxpayers. I wonder if Turkey still wants him.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-charter-schools-tied-to-powerful-turkish-imam/

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 29 2022 15:16 utc | 1

Empire To Expand NATO In Response To War Caused By NATO Expansion

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2022/06/29/empire-to-expand-nato-in-response-to-war-caused-by-nato-expansion/

The Clock till nuclear Midnight clicks closer still.

Posted by: librul | Jun 29 2022 15:17 utc | 2

24 hours now since the Zelensky narrative on the "mall missile attack" has been debunked, nothing about the mall today in Dutch private MSM so far, but Dutch government media today still reporting that the mall was attacked by a missile and that there are conflicting accounts in Russian media about the Russian narrative.

Posted by: Jimmy | Jun 29 2022 15:29 utc | 3

Reuters - unsourced leaks describing possible "compromise" over Kaliningrad

(and EU/EC and LIT each claiming, implausibly, that they're only doing what the other insists on)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-kaliningrad-row-eu-nears-compromise-deal-defuse-standoff-with-russia-2022-06-29/

More BS to kill time, probably.

The recent mass LIT internet blockage / DOS episode, by anonymous hackers claiming to represent RF (also not clear if that's honest or false), is not mentioned at all.

Article points out timetable of currently planned rail sanctions, with portions of it scheduled for July, August, and December

Posted by: ptb | Jun 29 2022 15:34 utc | 4

Zorkin says that Yeltsin deprived Russians of guarantees in Crimea and the Ukraine (RBK, June 29, 2022 — in Russian)

By leaving Crimea and regions with Russian population to the Ukraine, President Boris Yeltsin deprived 12 million Russian people of legal guarantees of identity, said Valeriy Zorkin, Chairman of the Constitutional Court of Russia. He stated this during a lecture he read at the Saint Petersburg International Legal Forum. The broadcast of the speech of the head of the Constitutional Court is available on the website of the event.

“In Belovezhye, during the dissolution of the USSR, Boris Yeltsin left to the Ukraine both Crimea and the legendary Sevastopol—as our people described it, ‘the diamond of Russian military valor’—and several regions, in reality Russian both in population and in history. That is, up to 12 million Russian people were left without any legal guarantees of their national and cultural identity and, as it turned out later, were even deprived of the right to their native language by the Nazi regime,” Zorkin noted.

According to him, this was one of Russia’s “historic in scale mistakes”.

After the collapse of the USSR, the “collective West led by the U.S.” spent billions of dollars to “nurture” the anti-Russian sentiments of the ruling circles and the population of the Ukraine. “As a result of this policy, the Ukrainian people became hostage to the anti-Russian, Nazi–Bandera ideology and practice,” Zorkin believes.

The Chairman of the Constitutional Court believes that it was then, back in the 90s, and not after 2014, that “propaganda rhetoric changed dramatically”, which offered the population a one-sided view of the country’s history. “The result of this brainwashing was a systematic transformation of a huge swathe of Ukrainian citizens into ‘anti-Russia’, massively convinced that Russian barbarians have been enslaving the Ukraine for centuries,” Zorkin said.

This development led the Russian-speaking population of Crimea to respond to the 2014 Maidan with an independence referendum, while the population of Donbass responded first with “soft resistance” and independence referendums, and then with armed resistance, Zorkin stated.

Posted by: S | Jun 29 2022 15:36 utc | 5

Interesting Long Twitter thread from Will Schryver

https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1541780685937332224

Key Point

But watching drone video of Ukrainian fortifications has convinced me the NATO brain trust effectively disdained Russian military capability, and its commanders, in the course of their eight-year-long preparation of the eastern Ukrainian battlefield.
They clearly believed the Russians would be stupid enough to assault Ukrainian fortifications using “modern” tactics entirely ill-suited to the task at hand. Their vanity persuaded them the Russians would beat themselves to pieces against an entrenched well-armed force.
Indeed, they were so confident of the genius of their plan that they persuasively encouraged many hundreds (if not thousands) of now-killed or captured NATO veterans to “share in the glory” of humiliating the Russians and bringing down the Putin regime once and for all.
They deluded themselves into believing the Russians lacked: strategic and logistical acumen, a sufficiently well-trained force, and – arguably the biggest miscalculation of all – sufficient stockpiles of ammo to conduct a protracted high-intensity conflict.
In short, I have come to believe the US/NATO actually persuaded themselves that this “Mother of All Proxy Armies” they built in Ukraine seriously had an excellent chance to soundly whip the Russians in a battle situated on their borders.
In other words, they not only grossly underestimated their enemy, but they ignored centuries of history that they somehow convinced themselves had no relevance to their 21st century aspirations to defeat Russia militarily and take a great spoil of its resources.
But, as is now readily apparent to all objective, knowledgeable military analysts around the globe, the US/NATO-trained Ukraine proxy army been savaged by a patient, methodical, and significantly outnumbered Russian force, using century-old doctrines and tactics.

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 29 2022 15:37 utc | 6

What I've heard:
The West turned Ukraine into a gun pointed at Russia's heart.
Russia slapped the gun away and kicked Ukraine in the balls.
The West said, "That's not nice!"

Posted by: Richard | Jun 29 2022 15:44 utc | 7

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
That's why I try to be myself

Joe Tzu

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 29 2022 15:55 utc | 8


BoJo. BoJo, FFS, if you suffer fro mtoxic masculinity, just be thge leader, change your own sex!

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/video/boris-johnson-putin-krieg-video-100.html

https://www.rt.com/news/558074-boris-johnson-putin-woman/

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 29 2022 15:58 utc | 9

According to him, this was one of Russia’s “historic in scale mistakes”.

Posted by: S | Jun 29 2022 15:36 utc | 5

This approach is politically convenient today, but probably not correct historically.

What Yeltsin an Co did was unlawful emergent amputatio nof Gobrachyov's hangrene. USSR had to be pro-actively killed before it would start dissecting most of the republics, and Russia first. In this legalistic twist Jokhar Dudaev (Chechen separatist) could be seen as Soviet officer fighting against Russian invasion into USSR.

But who cares about those twists today...

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 29 2022 16:05 utc | 10

I read a reader comment today on the biggest online Dutch news site that the Dutch military now has no more self propelled artillery, they did not have that many to begin only like a dozen systems or so. No one even challenged this assertion by the commenter

What is certain is that like a month ago the Dutch military was not in favor of giving these systems to Ukraine, because it would take quite a while to replace them they said.

Now i'm not whether what the commenter said is accurate but I tend to believe it is.

If so Russia has demilitarized the Dutch army self propelled artillery capability.

Posted by: Jimmy | Jun 29 2022 16:11 utc | 11

Simply put, Yeltsin was the right man for the Outlaw US Empire and the wrong man for Russia until the very last moment when Yeltsin passed the torch to a man right for Russia and wrong for the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 16:15 utc | 12

Aslangelo#6;
In an article on MoA 23 of June, the writer describes the major underestimations of Russia by thr
White West.
Two Big Errors About Russia - By Helmholtz Smith

by Helmholtz Smith

American and Western policy towards Russia is founded on two serious errors. (A considerable understatement, of course – the past thirty years show that conventional Western ideas of Russia are almost completely wrong.)

As you wrote about the militairy disdain by the White West the same is true about the economic
situation.
I like to add a word to your description of Russian army and that is "superior Russian Forces".
Slaves peoples are not those inferior "Untermenschen" as the White West think of them. The same is valid for the Chinese peoples. The opposite is true...

Posted by: DutchZ | Jun 29 2022 16:15 utc | 13

Nicky in Olive Shirts

Elensky pushed the Security Council to expel Moscow from the United Nations and to create a tribunal to investigate actions of the Russian military in Ukraine, which invaded on February 24. However, Russia is a council veto power and can shield itself from any such action.

“Russia does not have the right to take part in discussing and voting in regard to the war in Ukraine, which is unprovoked and simply colonialist of the part of Russia,” Zelensky told the council. “I urge you to deprive the delegation of the terrorist state of its powers.”

Better to continue fuc*ing "the family" on line.
In 2 months, the sunflowers and corn will have grown, it will be necessary to harvest.

An sweet and hard "rendez-vous".

And a magnificent final role for a small man.

Posted by: La Bastille | Jun 29 2022 16:17 utc | 14

Repost with error corrections and addition for cleariyu

I read a reader comment today on the biggest online Dutch news site, asserting that the Dutch military now has no more self propelled artillery, they did not have that many to begin only like a dozen systems or so. No one even challenged this assertion by the commenter. This is very unusual on the site, since it is something negative about "our side" and I would expect that if it were in correct it would have been challenged for sure.

What is certain is that like a month ago the Dutch military was not in favor of giving these systems to Ukraine, because it would take quite a while to replace them they said.

Now i'm not sure whether what the commenter said is accurate but I tend to believe it is.

If so Russia has demilitarized the Dutch army self propelled artillery capability.

Posted by: Jimmy | Jun 29 2022 16:22 utc | 15

But, as is now readily apparent to all objective, knowledgeable military analysts around the globe, the US/NATO-trained Ukraine proxy army been savaged by a patient, methodical, and significantly outnumbered Russian force, using century-old doctrines and tactics.
Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 29 2022 15:37 utc | 6

Western "planners" always project like mad, i.e. they always prepare to defeat what they did in the same situation (bomb the heck out of everything and send in occupation troops), and got defeated doing. This has been going since Gulf War II (Iraq 2003). Very imitative. So they plan for a debilitating long-term resistance to the Russians to "weaken" them. The Russians, not being stupid, will fight no such war. They have repeatedly shown that too. Some of this goes back to worship of the wisdom of Brezinski.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 29 2022 16:23 utc | 16

Well, let's see if this works--Global Times editorial about NATO Summit has some very choice words and phrases, like this one:

"The sewage of the Cold War cannot be allowed to flow into the Pacific Ocean - this should be the general consensus in the Asia-Pacific region."

Here's another:

"NATO is by no means an antidote to Europe's security crisis, but poison. If anyone spreads such poison to East Asia, which is called 'the oasis of world peace and development,' the behavior is insidious and appalling."

And this one:

"NATO cannot change the nature of being a military and political bloc. Its very existence poses a threat to world peace and stability."

Don't worry; there're more along with the context.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 16:27 utc | 17

NATO is sort of a private club of not very agreeable people/countries, who had got together for the fear of the Soviet Union, and kept on against Russia. The only unity these countries have is only on the family picture. That unity doesn't further to fight against Russia, or even defend against Russia, if Russia attacks it in some place, well, not after 2014.

Russia, on the other hand, doesn't really need to attack NATO militarily, as it can simply attack it economically. The neo-liberal, (neo-nazi) EU/NATO leaders had simply forgotten that. But, this summer/autumn, there'd be much less harvest in the Unfriendlies. Prices of all goods in these countries had gone up rapidly since February 2022. The heating period is coming up quite fast, and there's not enough coal, gas, fuel in the Unfriendlies. The Arab countries are not that friendly to the EU/NATO, after all they are Islamic countries.

So, whatever the joint statements of the private club of Unfriendlies this weekend, it'd be just rhetoric. By the way, I've never heard of a Norwegian politician ever solving a world problem.

Anyway, there'd be power shortages in the Unfriendlies, especially in the Baltics, come autumn/winter.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 16:28 utc | 18

The jokes never cease. . .

Following the attack, President Volodymyr Zelensky said there were more than 1,000 people inside, and "the number of victims is unimaginable." He later corrected himself, explaining that there were initially more than 1,000 people in the mall but many managed to get out on time before the missiles hit thanks to the air raid sirens. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 29 2022 16:29 utc | 19

Whew, is it hot in here today!! Montreal’s La Presse — earlier, I posted a link to a La Presse / AFP report on Putin’s visit to Tajikistan, and said I thought the video was trying to say something important.

https://www.lapresse.ca/international/2022-06-28/moscou-fait-tout-pour-normaliser-l-afghanistan-dit-poutine.php

(My take: when it says in extra-large letters, « La Russie dispose d’une importante base militaire au Tadjikistan » , I think someone who thinks they are being very sneaky and clever is about to get a supreme ass-kicking. That’s just how I see it.)

Then, Canada’s Foreign Minister Joly announced a major push towards world peace, starting in Europe, by establishing 4 new embassies — one of which is in Armenia.
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/2022-06-29/guerre-en-ukraine/le-canada-ouvrira-quatre-nouvelles-ambassades-en-europe.php
(Just a first Canadian Press report, I expect more coverage later.)

Reminder of Armenia’s strong Francophone ties —

https://en.armradio.am/2022/03/20/armenia-and-la-francophone-united-by-strong-cultural-and-historical-ties-fm/

Then — reader mail! In response to an opinion piece asking if the war in Ukraine is really a proxy war between the US and Russia. (The bourgeoisie, barflies, laid bare. Not pretty, in either official language.)
https://www.lapresse.ca/debats/courrier-des-lecteurs/2022-06-29/ukraine/une-guerre-indirecte-entre-les-etats-unis-et-la-russie.php

The link to the original article is at the bottom of the above link.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 29 2022 16:39 utc | 20

ostro @ 18
"Anyway, there'd be power shortages in the Unfriendlies, especially in the Baltics, come autumn/winter."

Possible, we shall see. For sure they want to be independent, with occasional power cuts, rather than part of RF, eating cabbage and kow towing to russian overlords.

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 29 2022 16:45 utc | 21

Jimmy | Jun 29 2022 16:22 utc | 15;
With a leftish female MoD, she feels morally so obligated to help those poor Ukrainian nazi's she wil surely give away the rest of the Dutch army. As you know lacking of 25% manpower, hard to find;
15 leased tanks from Germany, no ammo, wrong armoured cars, part of the artillary gone. However top brass boasting about the defense capabilities. Needing more money about more stuff. Available over 10 years. In the que like the rest of NATO armies. Have to ask Putin to be patience untill all is delivered.
The elites are all so stupid, unbelievable, but democratically elected.

Posted by: DutchZ | Jun 29 2022 16:49 utc | 22

Help me out here.
from a previous posting:

The light gray shopping center roof can be seen south of the large Kredmash machine plant in the center. The small park from which the surveillance videos come is directly north of it. Google has marked it in green as some special recreational space. The factory has direct rail access at its southern side with several rail tracks for loading and unloading machinery. Rail access makes it an ideal space for preparing or repairing heavy weapons. It seems that the railway area was one of the two targets.
Still not convinced? Well, here is video from a Ukrainian TV station taken on the factory grounds. It is showing a crater and the debris of the factory. The areas where it was hit are pretty much destroyed.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/12i/ekz2-s.jpg

from the NYTImes
Here's a photo showing the destroyed mall but no destruction beyond it.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/12i/ekz2.jpg

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 29 2022 16:50 utc | 23

The Russian Killnet hacker community continues to attack Lithuanian government websites - this time the site of the country's Ministry of Energy has been downed.

“There, someone said something about the “isolation of Russia,” but because of the strong Lithuanian accent, we couldn’t make out who exactly. Therefore, just in case, they dropped the entire ministry.”

Killnet reminded that "it is already the second week and it will only get worse for them.”

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 16:53 utc | 25

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 16:15 utc | 12
"Yeltsin was the right man for the Outlaw US Empire and the wrong man for Russia until the very last moment when Yeltsin passed the torch to a man right for Russia and wrong for the Outlaw US Empire."

How dialectical of you Mr. karlof1. I will store it in my tid bit notes.

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Jun 29 2022 16:54 utc | 26

This brilliant thread just appeared in my twitter feed and I had to share it with my MoA comrades. I would just add that this isn't a war, it's a massacre, and Russian infantry are reduced mainly to camo-dressed morgue attendants now.

Russian War Method analysis

No idea who this guy is, but definitely not an Osint Bro or ISW charlatan.

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 29 2022 16:58 utc | 27

I tried to post the URL but my post disappeared so here is the article in full

Neutralising StarLink
The Right People ( Telegram Channel)June 29, 2022


“What happens if the Russians and the Chinese target satellites? Will this be a threat to Starlink?” - such a question was asked by journalists to Elon Musk in connection with the conduct of a Russian special operation in Ukraine. The answer was:

“It was interesting to look at the Russian anti-satellite demonstration a few months ago in the context of this conflict. Because it caused a lot of controversy among satellite operators. It even posed some danger to the space station where the Russian cosmonauts are located. So why did they do it? This was a message before the aggravation of the situation in Ukraine. If you try to disable Starlink, it won't be easy because we already have over 2 satellites. That means a lot of anti-satellite missiles. I hope we don't have to test this in practice, but I think we can launch satellites faster than they can shoot them down with anti-satellite missiles."

Battle for supremacy in space


As has been repeatedly said, dominance in outer space is the basis of dominance on the surface of the planet. And this is confirmed during the conflict in Ukraine. The Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), not having their own orbital grouping, but receiving data from US intelligence satellites, through US communications satellites, are able to resist the technically superior armed forces of the Russian Federation (RF Armed Forces) by an order of magnitude, inflicting quite sensitive strikes from time to time .

It is believed that Starlink satellites cannot be used for reconnaissance, although this statement cannot be unconditionally trusted, but even their use as a means of communication is a significant help to the enemy, and Starlink terminals in Ukraine, according to some reports, there are already thousands.


Starlink satellite communication terminals
But there are other small, cheap, commercial satellites that can be used for such purposes, as this conflict has shown.

What will happen if the RF Armed Forces collide in a limited conflict that does not involve the use of nuclear weapons with NATO? With an adversary who will have sufficient stocks of long-range strike weapons?

In this case, the presence of a highly effective reconnaissance satellite constellation of reconnaissance, communications and control will allow the enemy to destroy Russian troops without entering into direct combat contact. Aircraft will be destroyed at airfields, ships and submarines will die before they leave their bases, ground forces will not be able to create any large shock fist, move with significant forces, and organize an effective supply of fuel and ammunition. Surface ships at sea will also be guaranteed to be detected and destroyed from a distance exceeding the range of their detection tools...

On the other hand, the US Armed Forces without satellites, without intelligence received from orbit, without space-based communication systems, will lose a significant part of their advantages - they will not receive target designation of long-range precision-guided munitions, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) will not be able to operate beyond the radio horizon or out of range actions of the communications equipment of the repeater aircraft, many horizontal and vertical communications will disappear in multi-domain forces.

This conflict has also demonstrated the vulnerabilities of NATO doctrine. Russian weapons, while not as sophisticated, are far more resilient. By denying NATO air superiority and blocking its satellites, the ground army would not be much of a problem.

Countermeasures
How can Russia counter the US in space? Surpass the number and quality of reconnaissance satellites? This is impossible, we will not be able to produce and put into orbit satellites even in an order of magnitude less than the United States and other Western countries. And the presence of its own developed satellite constellation does not negate the superiority of the United States and NATO in the number of long-range precision weapons and UAVs.

Jamming enemy satellite constellations by means of electronic warfare (EW) and blinding with lasers? So far, nothing has been heard about this - nothing like this is used in Ukraine. Functional defeat in general is not a very reliable thing, and it is difficult to assess the effectiveness of suppressing enemy reconnaissance and communications equipment at any given time.

All that remains is the physical destruction of enemy spacecraft, but there are a number of problems here too.

Existing means can destroy one, ten, one hundred satellites, but what if there are thousands of them - tens of thousands? A situation will arise when putting new satellites into orbit will indeed be cheaper than destroying them, even if one anti-satellite missile will carry several interceptors. The advantage will be with those who can both produce satellites cheaper and put them into orbit cheaper.

Based on the foregoing, it is necessary to ensure a radical reduction in the cost of destroying enemy spacecraft, primarily in low orbit. This can be achieved on the condition that one orbital interceptor destroys not one, but several dozen, or better, several hundred enemy satellites.

Project orbital interceptor "Reaper"
Massively launched into orbit satellites are deployed in clusters from one launch vehicle and then are separated into their orbits. Knowing their orbit, you can launch an interceptor spacecraft in such a way that it alternately flies past the satellites that you want to destroy. At the moment of flight at a minimum distance, the interceptor will release a compact and inexpensive ammunition, which will destroy the enemy satellite. The interceptor itself will then go to the next satellite, then to the next, and so on, and so on, until it runs out of ammunition.


Small low-orbit satellites are massively deployed in clusters from one "large" carrier.
When attacking "on the forehead" on approaching the target, there is a risk that the interceptor will then fly into a cloud of fragments left from the attacked target and its own attacking ammunition. Based on this, it may be preferable to attack the enemy satellite after the interceptor passes by it. In this case, the launch of the attacking ammunition will be carried out in the opposite direction - all fragments will remain behind the interceptor.

The Reaper-type orbital interceptor must include radar and / or optical means of detecting and tracking a target, fuel and attitude control / flight path correction engines, an instrument compartment and a weapon compartment


Conceptual image of the Reaper orbital interceptor

Reaper-class orbital interceptor concept
The Reaper-type orbital interceptor, launched into orbit, should move slightly away from the intended location of the enemy satellite. At a certain moment, the orientation engines turn the interceptor flying by inertia, and then at the calculated point of the trajectory, when the tail of the interceptor is directed at the enemy satellite, a shot is fired.

The attacking ammunition hits the enemy satellite, and the interceptor receives an acceleration that corrects its flight path to fly past the next target satellite. Thus, the cycle is repeated as long as the interceptor has damaging ammunition. Additional correction of the flight path must be carried out by the engines of the interceptor.


Possible scheme of operation of the orbital interceptor "Reaper"
The Reaper orbital interceptor can use various types of ammunition. In the simplest case, this can be shrapnel ammunition, the easiest to manufacture and, accordingly, the cheapest. However, it is possible that the range and accuracy of shrapnel ammunition will not be enough.

As an alternative, unguided munitions with remote detonation on a trajectory or unguided munitions with a proximity fuse (or a combination of these solutions) can be considered. And finally, the most complex and expensive ammunition of the Reaper orbital interceptor can be a guided munition with guidance in a laser beam (“laser trail”) or with radio command guidance.

Ultimately, the type of ammunition used must be determined by the results of calculations and tests. It is possible that the ammunition load of one Reaper orbital interceptor may include several types of guided and unguided munitions.

One interceptor can potentially carry hundreds of damaging ammunition. For example, if the diameter of the launcher of one ammunition is about 150 mm, then a package of 100 ammunition in the 10x10 format will be a square with a side of just over 1,5 meters, respectively, a package of 400 ammunition will have a dimension of a little more than 3x3 meters.


Reaper-class orbital interceptor concept
Enemy counteraction
Of course, the enemy can try to destroy the orbital interceptors - this can be implemented in several ways.

The first is equipping satellites with self-defense systems. But this will make them complex and expensive, since they will need reconnaissance equipment, weapons, and so on, and this contradicts the very concept of massive and inexpensive satellites.

The second is the destruction of an orbital interceptor by an anti-missile launched from a land, sea or air carrier. To counter this threat, the orbital interceptor can launch small-sized decoys with corner reflectors and Luneberg lenses that increase the effective dispersion surface (ESR) of the simulators, as well as thermal emitters designed to deceive the thermal homing heads of interceptor missiles. At the same time, the orbital interceptor itself can be covered with a screen that reduces its thermal and radar visibility when viewed from the earth's surface.

The third option is the creation by the enemy of their own orbital interceptors. It will be more difficult to make such ones to destroy the maneuvering orbital anti-satellite interceptor of the Reaper type, but sooner or later it will come to this. However, this will already be the next round of space confrontation.

If enemy satellites are to be launched by the thousands, then Reaper Orbital Interceptors must be launched by the tens, maybe hundreds. In case of a sudden attack, the enemy simply will not have time to hit them all, especially considering that both the “provocateur” interceptors mentioned above and simply false targets can be launched at the same time. The advantage of space is that it is much more difficult to distinguish a light decoy in space than in the atmosphere.

Conclusions


The creation of an orbital interceptor of the "Reaper" type is a difficult, but technically quite feasible task. It can be assumed that this weapon could have been created even on the basis of technologies of the late XX century. This weapon could have been created in the USSR, and it can be created in Russia now, no matter what sanctions our opponents impose on us.

Recently :

"U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris issued an official statement saying that the United States is committed to halting anti-satellite missile testing and also urging other countries to follow the U.S. example."

Yes of course. Having gained an advantage in space, the United States is very afraid of losing it. Having lost the advantage in space, the satellites in orbit, the US military will lose a significant part of its combat capability. Much more than the Russian or Chinese Armed Forces will lose, having lost their satellites.

It is not known what the Chinese will do, although the call to create counter-measures has already been made in their specialist press, the Russians are simply obliged to target US and NATO satellites, which definitely include Starlink satellites. Depending on the development of the military-political situation, we simply may not have any other way but to clear the orbit.

Original text by: Andrey Mitrofanov

Posted by: Down South | Jun 29 2022 17:00 utc | 28

"“The result of this brainwashing was a systematic transformation of a huge swathe of Ukrainian citizens into ‘anti-Russia’, massively convinced that Russian barbarians have been enslaving the Ukraine for centuries,” Zorkin said."

Posted by: S | Jun 29 2022 15:36 utc | 5

There was a Polandball strip that read something like "Horde of russian barbarians invaded and scoured country, leaving behind a trail of schools, hospitals, libraries"

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 29 2022 17:00 utc | 29

Sorry, Aslangeo | Jun 29 2022 15:37 utc | 6
already posted part of the thread.

Highly recommended you read all of it.

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 29 2022 17:01 utc | 30

"NATO is sort of a private club of not very agreeable people/countries, who had got together for the fear of the Soviet Union..": ostro@18

NATO was a military alliance but the fear of those who built it was not of the Soviet military- all analyses and every interaction with Moscow confirmed that the Soviet Union had no plans to attack or invade any territory which had not been awarded to it at Yalta or Potsdam.

The purpose of NATO was to translate political fears-of Soviet development, planning and 'soft power' influence over the masses struggling to free themselves from imperialism- into a completely bogus military threat. The reasons are obvious: nothing was better calculated to stamp out pro-soviet, communist or even socialist ideas (which predominated in Europe and even north America in 1945) than to pretend that the Soviet Union, led by the archetypical bogeyman Stalin, was a dangerous enemy ready to pounce at any opportunity.
It is one of the triumphs of imperialist ideology that they were able to carry off such a trick and to turn socio-political competition into a Cold War.

The point is that NATO has never had a defensive purpose- it is an association of forces mustered by the empire to act as a permanent threat and deterrent to prevent the Soviet Union (and its successors) from offering viable and attractive alternatives to imperialism and neo-colonialism.

And that is precisely what it is doing now: as BRICs and BRI offer hopes of development and prosperity without usury and exploitation, NATO, defending the IMF, WTO and other imperialist institutions (including, of course the EU) insists on war.

The war in Ukraine is simply a contemporary version of the wars across Latin America, Asia and Africa in which tens of millions have been killed and hundreds of millions laid in premature graves due to famines and other disasters brought about by capitalism.

Thanks to S@5 for that report.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 29 2022 17:06 utc | 31

karlof1#17;
Here is another nice remark by the Foreign minister of India:
To end the day - a quote of External Affairs Minister of India Jaishankar

„Europe has to grow out of mindset that its problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems aren't Europe's problems“

Hit on the nail...

Posted by: DutchZ | Jun 29 2022 17:07 utc | 32

Posted by: Down South | Jun 29 2022 17:00 utc | 28
--------------------

They will shoot the satellites in time. Atm, most probably disrupting the work of those satellites -- there were two Russian military satellites launched in March and April, if I remember right.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 17:08 utc | 33

Most everyone here seems very aware of the truth about what is happening in Ukraine. Unfortunately, Russian MOD never reveals Russian casualties except for the one time I recall. They give the Ukrainian casualties report EVERYDAY. Makes me extremely suspicious that Russia MOD is hiding something. What are they hiding? What is the truth? If the figure is low, seems it would be prudent to state the daily figure. If it is extremely high, maybe they don't want to admit it? I'm at a loss on the truth. But MOD is not doing anyone any favors by not discussing it.

Posted by: Mike | Jun 29 2022 17:10 utc | 34

Posted by: Down South | Jun 29 2022 17:00 utc | 28

RE: Neutralising Starlink.

Basically, all the satellites in the world are useless if you have nothing to use the info because it's all been blasted apart.

This is the Ukraine's problem: they have NATO surveillance information but no forces to respond with fire. That would happen to NATO on a larger scale, and quite quickly.

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 29 2022 17:10 utc | 35

One other thing from about two weeks ago I forgot to share with you is the "Tyre Twitter Guy" (=Russia losing because of its bad tyres), had a new thread that Russia had worn out its artillery barrels from firing so much, so would not be able to continue attacking.

ROFL.

The idiocy on display in the BrOsint world is mind-boggling.

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 29 2022 17:16 utc | 36

We're really really warning you!

All joke's aside.
There's no reason for the Russians to stop.
And NATO/EU have decided not to use the off ramp option either.

https://news.sky.com/story/nato-vows-to-defend-every-inch-of-its-territory-as-it-overhauls-strategy-and-warns-russia-to-withdraw-from-ukraine-12642490

Posted by: Jpc | Jun 29 2022 17:18 utc | 37

That twitter thread is a serious laff at twit #11 !

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 29 2022 17:18 utc | 38

Ed Nelson @26--

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't attempting to be dialectic. At the time, the WWW didn't yet exist but I was fortunate to have access to major university libraries that subscribed to rather expensive journals that were very informative on Russia's Rape, as well as being capable of obtaining small printings of highly specialist books dealing with the situation there. By 1993 and Yeltsin's attack on Russia's legislature, it was clear he was Anti-Russia and millions were thus doomed to die worse deaths than during the Great Patriotic War. I'm surprised Albright never gloated about the millions of Russians the Clinton Neoliberal Parasites killed the way she did about the 500K Iraqi children--both were Genocidal Crimes. I initially followed Putin with very high suspicions being a Yeltsin appointee and such, but my apprehensions were greatly mellowed when he signed the Treaty of Friendship with China in 2001, and completely absolved with his Munich Security Conference speech in 2007. Today, Putin's in Turkmenistan for the Sixth Caspian Summit as he continues to repair the damage done during the Yeltsin Era and atone for the gross incompetence of the Soviet years.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 17:18 utc | 39

Posted by: bevin | Jun 29 2022 17:06 utc | 31
----------------------------------------------

Well, I was on both sides of the iron curtain in the 70s, 80s and 90s to have look at NATO of those days...NATO absolutely feared the USSR (and the Warsaw Pact) those days. Even with all those "brave" talk in front of cameras, the EU/NATO are afraid of the Russians. Right now, the EU/NATO is playing cat's paw with the Ukraine...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 17:20 utc | 40

Posted by: Mike | Jun 29 2022 17:10 utc | 34

IIRC Russians have a policy of not officially disclosing casualties until the dust has settled, ostensibly and quite reasonably for morale and opsec purposes.

You may like it or not, but it's pretty clear: "No, we're not telling how many of ours bit the dust - yet, there'll be enough time afterwards to deal with such issues, there are more pressing matters now"

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 29 2022 17:30 utc | 41

re: Will Schryver commentary on what seems to be poor war advice by NATO to UA

Important points, but long winded. Add to it the 'human shields' aspect, around which the current fortress-city concept revolves.

Also in a more cynical view, which Schryver also says is a possibility, NATO isn't necessarily dumb in arranging the merciless sacrifice of their proxies - doing so is practically SOP. If you place zero value on the lives of the proxy, you lose nothing. Instead, it was dumb of UA (and thank the naivete of the endless twitter cheerleaders too) to think they would be treated better than your usual proxy-war surrogates, just because they're light skinned.

For NATO what was dumb was all the heads of state believing the sanctions were going to be a magic bullet.

Posted by: ptb | Jun 29 2022 17:30 utc | 42

Genocide of Donbass civilians. Women, elderly, children (RIA Novosti, April 6, 2022, updated on April 26, 2022 — in Russian)

These are horrendous photos. In peacetime, this cannot be published. But for 8 years the world pretended that the time was peaceful. We have become contemporaries and partly passive participants in a genocide. “The Madonna of Gorlovka”, children, elderly, women bleeding on the streets of their cities. To remain silent about their deaths is a crime. It is impossible to look at these photos. Still, look at them. [Gore is blurred. — S]

Photo 1. The Madonna of Gorlovka—young Kristina Zhuk and her 10-month-old daughter died on July 27, 2014, when Ukrainian armed formations shelled the streets of Gorlovka from Grad launchers. On that day, later named Donetsk Bloody Sunday, four children have died. Among them was little Kira. The girl died in the arms of her mother, who fled to escape from the soldiers of the Armed Forces of the Ukraine. It took some time for Kira’s grandmother to find her daughter and granddaughter. Dead Kristina lay on the grass of the city square, still clutching her daughter.

Photo 2. End of July 2014, the village of Yubileynyy in Lugansk Oblast. An elderly woman died as a result of artillery shelling by the Armed Forces of the Ukraine.

Photo 3. June 8, 2014. A five-year-old girl is a victim of shelling in the village of Semyonovka.

Photo 4. This old man is one of the many helpless elderly who died during the shelling of a nursing home in Lugansk on July 28, 2014.

Photo 5. This woman died in her apartment. These are the consequences of a shelling by the Ukrainian military of the Artyom district in Slavyansk.

Photo 6. July 2014, Lugansk. A woman in a state of shock next to a victim of artillery shelling by the servicemen of the Armed Forces of the Ukraine.

Photo 7. A resident of the village of Golubovka in her house after shelling.

Photo 8. The consequences of a shelling of Slavyansk by the Ukrainian military. Neighbors help a woman whose house caught fire after being hit by a shell.

Photo 9. January 27, 2015, Donetsk. Four-year-old Sasha was killed during artillery shelling by the military of the Armed Forces of the Ukraine. A shell fragment hit him in the back.

Photo 10. August 14, 2014, the intersection of Artyom Street and 25-letiya RKKA Street, Donetsk. An elderly woman is a victim of shelling by the Armed Forces of the Ukraine.

Photo 11. Funeral service for the dead held in the courtyard of an apartment building. The consequences of shelling by the Ukrainian military of the Artyom district in Slavyansk.

Photo 12. January 2, 2015, Shakhtyorsk. As a result of artillery shelling by war criminals from the Armed Forces of the Ukraine, little Vanya Voronov lost his right arm and both legs. His younger brother Timofey, as well as his father, died on the spot.

Photo 13. Golubovka after shelling. The elderly mourn their sons.

Photo 14. Survivors, but now homeless. Residents of the Artema microdistrict in Slavyansk.

Photo 15. September 2014, Yenakievo. An old woman is a victim of artillery shelling by soldiers of the Armed Forces of the Ukraine.

Photo 16. November 5, 2014, Donetsk. During artillery strikes by war criminals from the Armed Forces of the Ukraine, two schoolchildren were killed at the stadium of School No. 63.

(Sidenote. I disagree with the use of the word “genocide” in reference to what was happening in Donbass. Genocide is a policy of systematic murder of all people belonging to a certain ethnicity. What was happening in Donbass doesn’t really fit the definition. It’s better described as a campaign of terror against a population to force it to give up its cultural identity, values and historical memory.)

Posted by: S | Jun 29 2022 17:33 utc | 43

28

How about artificially creating clouds that prevent satellites from seeing?

No more centralized depots, distribute all inventory assigning a unique ID to every item, that is then called by software if and when required.

If necessary, develop alternatives to satellites for the own country, and then launch cluster bombs into orbit that will explode and emit millions of sharp parts destroying all satellites.

Posted by: Nico | Jun 29 2022 17:35 utc | 44

On Anti-Satellite weapons. The development of weapons based on "new physical principles" are most likely to be used against drones and satellites. These would include lasers and other energy pulse weapons powered by small nuclear generators. While Preveset was unveiled, the new systems will remain hidden until needed, although it's possible some entered combat trials in Ukraine. The Telegram posting @28 is quite probably disinformation employed to confuse Russia's enemies as was the anti-sat test missile.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 17:41 utc | 45

If you remember those Apollo flights and before that, America always talked about a launch before it happened, and then spoke about some problems, when a launch didn't happen on the said date. On the other hand, we got to know of a Soviet space rocket launch only ,after it happened.

Likewise, we hear about any Russian, DPR, LNR advances, only after they happen, not like how its done by the US/EU/NATO. Even, the Ukraine talks about counter offensives upfront. The collective West wants PR victories, and usually they flop.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 17:41 utc | 46

Posted by: Mike | Jun 29 2022 17:10 utc | 34
"Makes me extremely suspicious that Russia MOD is hiding something. What are they hiding? What is the truth? If the figure is low, seems it would be prudent to state the daily figure. If it is extremely high, maybe they don't want to admit it? I'm at a loss on the truth. But MOD is not doing anyone any favors by not discussing it."

Poor Mike, he is "suspicious." What do we call this, a suspicious troll, or a concerned troll?

Posted by: Ed Nelson | Jun 29 2022 17:49 utc | 47

S | Jun 29 2022 17:33 utc | 43

"I disagree with the use of the word “genocide” in reference to what was happening in Donbass. Genocide is a policy of systematic murder of all people belonging to a certain ethnicity. What was happening in Donbass doesn’t really fit the definition. It’s better described as a campaign of terror against a population to force it to give up its cultural identity, values and historical memory."

If one is going to use the concept at all, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to expand the definition to include cases where the persecutors seek just what you wrote, the eradication of a people as a cultural group even if they're not physically exterminated.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Jun 29 2022 17:51 utc | 48

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Jun 29 2022 17:51 utc | 48
----------------------

Like what Americans did in Irak...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 17:55 utc | 49

Posted by: Mike | Jun 29 2022 17:10 utc | 34

Come on Mike, why SHOULD Russia give this data ???
I see no reason to give ammunition to my enemy, which is what I believe Russia is thinking.
The West is doing just fine with it's manufacture "facts" in so many subjects. I'm sure they can come up with the number on their own.

By the way, was that a coup d'état on Jan. 6th in DC ??? Man. I was so worried then.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 29 2022 17:56 utc | 50

Nato members need to 'step up to the plate' on spending - Johnson
More from Boris Johnson now who says the UK has increased its defence budget "massively" since the end of the Cold War.

He says in 2021 the UK was the third biggest defence spender in the world, and this year the UK's spending is at 2.3% of GDP which is above the 2% commitment made to Nato. He says these are long-term spending commitments.

Johnson says he would like "partners" to recognise that everybody needs to "step up to the plate".

BBC

Oops!!!

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 17:59 utc | 51

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 29 2022 15:55 utc | 8


You are rapidly mastering this new Joe Tzu art form!

Haiku Tzu:
Gazing into the Sun
My mind wobbles mindlessly
So Great to be Me!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 29 2022 18:01 utc | 52

Trying to catch up. Just some observations and thoughts...

In the previous thread (https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/06/another-zelensky-lie-debunked-white-house-says-ukraine-must-give-up-territory.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02a2eeca0e89200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02a2eeca0e89200d) jared says that the US is bankrupt. Who is the creditor to this unserviceable debt? US might be morally bankrupt (actually it IS), but financially it's not. The reason pretty much goes along the reasoning for why when one is out hiking in bear country that one needn't have to rely on outrunning any bear, just the person you're hiking with! Disassociating from the only actual financial peers -Russia and China- the US wipes out the bad debt. Europeans are the slower runners and will/might end up being eaten by the Bear.

Also in the previous thread, whirlX posted (https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/06/another-zelensky-lie-debunked-white-house-says-ukraine-must-give-up-territory.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02a308d410ec200c#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02a308d410ec200c) the link to this article: https://globalaffairs.ru/articles/pervaya-bolshaya-vojna-xxi-veka/ That article takes quite a bit of polish off of the sense of total superiority by the Russians. Makes me a bit nervous. However, it also informs that the Russians have demonstrated the ability to make adjustments: the situation of before the war and then once the war starts is best summed up by Mike Tyson when he said that "Everyone has a plan until the get hit in the face." It's all about adjustments. Really is a chess match... Seems that Ukraine/West/US/NATO was in fact figuring that they'd be launching against the separatists and doing so from their fortified locations. Had Russia not acted quickly it might not have been able to get an upper-hand. Ukraine/West/US/NATO wasn't figuring that Russia was going to storm into Ukraine; this was THE turning point: Russia actually made the most important "adjustment" at the start!

If the Russians are to push further west it will be both easier AND harder. Easier in that Ukraine will be without any meaningful number of seasoned troops. Harder in that they'll be pushing toward US/NATO boundaries that will be pumping a lot more weapons into western Ukraine: read the article that whirlX linked to. It gives me pause for thought as to whether Russia will actually look to push through all of Ukraine. I'd thought that if it did that it might then look to annex a chunk of western Ukraine (as well as the south) and allow the folks in the eastern oblasts to their independence (knowing that they will be pro-Russian) OR to become part of the Russian Federation. This scenario would uphold their, Russia's, commitment to honoring independence and to de-natzification AND the creation of a buffer zone. I'm twisting the logic of buffer zone here, but I think this scenario would server the same, and perhaps better, purpose. Taking western Ukraine, a slice of it, as one big military outpost in which Russia would house missiles closer to NATO. Perhaps not the greatest solution since the independent countries would be the actual buffer zone, but there's little other way to guarantee there's any soft of lasting buffer.

I think that Russia always figured that they had time on their side. I'm talking about the longer-term. It needed to hold back the intended hostile takeover by the US long enough until the collapse of the West itself. The US won't be collapsing into the abyss, more like post-USSR, which was bad enough. It's the EU/Europe that will completely blow out, and the reasons are becoming quite obvious: lack of resources. European countries either wise up and detach from the US's dictates or face certain death. Based on the recent G7 cluster-fk it appears they're choosing certain death: full steam ahead, over the waterfall... The US has resources, it just doesn't have enough to maintain cheap living standards: the masses will get very restless, which is why there's such a push to control media- US govt will become more and more authoritarian- it will then come down to how long this direction can hold out until there's full-on civil unrest (catching up with the Europeans). Takes bread to go along with the circuses in order to hold civil unrest at bay, and the West is quickly running out of bread...

Regarding Turkey latest positioning, as many have pointed out, this is all but words. NO matter whether they carry through on their promised vote Russia WILL end up working with Syria to remove all foreign elements, Turkey included. It's all business, and Syria is totally a reliable partner with/for Russia: not to mention, Syrian forces are now quite capable- I'd think more so than Turkey's.

Posted by: Seer | Jun 29 2022 18:06 utc | 53

"Help me out here.
from a previous posting:

The light gray shopping center roof can be seen south of the large Kredmash machine plant in the center. The small park from which the surveillance videos come is directly north of it. Google has marked it in green as some special recreational space. The factory has direct rail access at its southern side with several rail tracks for loading and unloading machinery. Rail access makes it an ideal space for preparing or repairing heavy weapons. It seems that the railway area was one of the two targets.
Still not convinced? Well, here is video from a Ukrainian TV station taken on the factory grounds. It is showing a crater and the debris of the factory. The areas where it was hit are pretty much destroyed.


https://www.moonofalabama.org/12i/ekz2-s.jpg

from the NYTImes
Here's a photo showing the destroyed mall but no destruction beyond it.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/12i/ekz2.jpg"

OK. This first video is shot from the park mentioned. https://youtu.be/grVDYRMl5QY

Especially watch from about 2:07. Note the round pavilion on the water and how close the explosion is to it. Compare it to the over head satellite view B posted. Now like at this street view from the same park. https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0749687,33.4276883,3a,75y,188.06h,86.45t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipM5ltBAzsbEwOW9tXZJuWh5Gz2x5Y2RAjGQRfwU!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipM5ltBAzsbEwOW9tXZJuWh5Gz2x5Y2RAjGQRfwU%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya178.57487-ro-0-fo100!7i6912!8i3456

Note the large building. This is the factory in the location that exploded in the video. There must have been hundreds of tons of explosives stored there.

Now look at the satellite view again. Measure the distance between the back of the shopping center and the pavilion. It is pushing 2000 feet!

So if the nyt is trying to claim a mall was hit and nothing else...lmfao!

Posted by: nook | Jun 29 2022 18:12 utc | 54

@Don Bacon, 23
There are some disturbing discrepancies between the different images from NYT, Google Earth and the video from Ukrainian TV in the former thread of b "Another Zelensky Lie Debunked,...).
First of all, when I look at Google Earth, I read the information "Image © 2022 Maxar Technology", but below it is written that the satellite image are from 4/3/2021.
Then, the video shows a damaged building with a typical structure for a warehouse or workshop, not matching with that of the damaged mall as in the NYT image but well with the building behind the mall (at the left side) of the NYT image.

Posted by: SCC | Jun 29 2022 18:22 utc | 55

Don Bacon @55

yay. let's hope the West has a good an eye as you

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 29 2022 18:27 utc | 56

Can a "Zebra" change its stripes?

https://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1542160641695354883

The War Racket can move money like no other...

Posted by: Seer | Jun 29 2022 18:28 utc | 57

oops. @SCC @55
mall video discerpancies. ty

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 29 2022 18:28 utc | 58

See https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1541754999671242753

The NYT picture seems a fake.

Posted by: SCC | Jun 29 2022 18:33 utc | 59

About the shopping mall: the missile hit the ground, behind the building (between the tracks). PS: Yes! Radio-Canada didn't block my comment about this!

https://mamot.fr/@lutzray/108562041912144216

Posted by: physprof | Jun 29 2022 18:37 utc | 60

Reminder of Armenia’s strong Francophone ties —
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 29 2022 16:39 utc | 20

Whatabout 'em?

CSTO (1992 mil): AM, BY, KZ, KG, TJ, RU
SCO (2001 NGO): CN, RU, IN, PK, KZ, KG, TJ, UZ, AM*, AF*, AZ*, BY*, TR*, LK*, KH*
EaEU (2012 FTA): AM, BY, KZ, KG, TJ, RU, VN*, CN*, RS*
* observer, dialogue, or applicant member

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 29 2022 18:37 utc | 61

Or:
The mall was fist hit, the dust settled gently allowing to take the picture of the NYT article before a second or third hit destroyed the worshop behind.
Lucky picture

Posted by: SCC | Jun 29 2022 18:40 utc | 62

Replying to Jimmy #3
"Dutch government media today still reporting that the mall was attacked by a missile"

Guardian concedes that the mall 'might not have been the target' but of course no suggestion that the mall was not in use or that the target was next door's munitions store etc. Typical Guardian, deceit by misdirection.

Posted by: T Paine | Jun 29 2022 18:40 utc | 63

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 29 2022 17:16 utc | 36

I read an article in some dutch tire expert online magazine the other day that claimed something similar.

According to them the infamous Russian convoy to Kiev was stuck because of bad Chinese tires that all went flat or something like that.

That was a good laugh, it had a big picture of a Russian military truck that looked brand new with a flat tire.

The conclusion was Chinese tires are shit and that the Russian military official that decided to buy these tires because he was corrupt is now probably serving at the front line in Donbass.

Posted by: Jimmy | Jun 29 2022 18:49 utc | 64

S @43--

IMO, what was occurring in Donbass fit the definition of Cultural Genocide, which differs from the "traditional" genocide of the complete cancelling of a population. IMO, the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure in order to increase the rate of mortality of that civilian population as was done in the First Gulf War by the Outlaw US Empire and its allies constitutes Genocide, just as the UNSCR-imposed sanctions regime was Genocidal--perhaps the biggest black mark in the UNSC's existence, Russia controlled by the Empire left China alone to veto, but it didn't.

Regardless, IMO, Russia's invoking UN Charter Article 51 remains valid and its SMO thus legal unlike all Outlaw US Empire interventions and regime changes with the sole exception of Korea, which IMO remains an aberration thanks to Stalin.

The information provided at Russia's annual meeting of the Council for the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights on 9 December was sufficient for Putin and others to call what was occurring to be genocide. I published an article based on that meeting, "Putin Agrees It's Genocide in the Donbass" that same day. But prior to that, the determination that Genocidal conditions were present was already taken by the Russian Government as announced in this TASS article from November 18. IMO, all that has a bearing on the timing of thinking, decision making, and the subsequent Security Proposals made in December.

I'm professionally curious about the planning timeline followed by Russia. Unfortunately, I didn't document nearly enough at my VK page. NATO's planning timeline would also be interesting to know since IMO it was interrupted by Trump.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 18:52 utc | 65

Replying to Joe6pack #23
"eating cabbage and kow towing to russian overlords."

Pretty feeble Joe. Russian overlords? Apparently Ming the Merciless does free healthcare now. Rather live in Moscow than Washington any day.

Posted by: T Paine | Jun 29 2022 18:57 utc | 66

I disagree with the use of the word “genocide” in reference to what was happening in Donbass. Genocide is a policy of systematic murder of all people belonging to a certain ethnicity.
Posted by: S | Jun 29 2022 17:33 utc | 43

Let me help you shake off your modal "terrorism" chains.
UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 29 2022 18:57 utc | 67

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 17:59 utc | 51

He meant to step up to the fifteen plates served in the Royal Palace, Madrid, just like Caligula, Nero and all those characters from Rome, what is really humilliating for the common folk and inhabitant of a big city, they used the Old Plaza Mayor as parking¡¡¡¡

And at the same time they forecast hunger.

Imperial dinner

Posted by: Paco | Jun 29 2022 19:03 utc | 68

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: ...

Having agreed to this, comes the irony presented by "laws of war" codified by UN members. Somehow "a national, ethnical, racial or religious"--or "cultural"-- group" does not included peoples of any state's "professional" armed forces, designated soldiers and combatants, instructed to murder an enemy state's standing armed forces.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 29 2022 19:07 utc | 69

Posted by: T Paine | Jun 29 2022 18:40 utc | 63

I see so that's how they operate at the guardian

The biggest dutch online news site that is completely free of charge, owned by the biggest newspaper corporation in The Netherlands and Belgium, not only have they not reported anything about the mall today. Every day since the war started they have a Ukraine war news summary, Today, it is 9 PM now, no Ukraine war news summary so far.

Posted by: Jimmy | Jun 29 2022 19:09 utc | 70

War is on the menu!

The war Inertia will be unstoppable.

101st Airborne Deploy to Front Line

These are attack US troops. There are no off-ramps. There will be no winners!

Posted by: James Cook | Jun 29 2022 19:18 utc | 71

From IntelSlava

🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Kadyrov said that the Chechen National Guard had also entered Lisichansk and was fighting in the city.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 29 2022 19:22 utc | 72

Lisichansk - oil refinery

As the sun sets in the Russia/Ukraine time zone, telegram Rybar claims RF forces established control over this key location.

In light of the pattern of reporting in the few weeks, trying to maintain the rapid pace of positive news, this might be defined in a minimal sense. I.e. it may be something less than 'secured', at the moment. All the same a most important step to finishing off the Lisichansk bulge.

With this spot taken, there is no longer rationale for UA forces in the pocket to make extensive sacrifices for holding individual hills or valleys or neighborhoods. The height on which the oil refinery is located will also be part of future moves to the SSW, but for now, tons of effort remain to round up the fragmented remnants of multiple VSU brigades in Lisichansk.

https://t.me/rybar/34630

Posted by: ptb | Jun 29 2022 19:24 utc | 73

Posted by: James Cook | Jun 29 2022 19:18 utc | 71

They left about a month ago. The base is right down the road from me.

Posted by: Wook | Jun 29 2022 19:26 utc | 74

bevin @31

yes. and the resources. agribiz plus all the minerals, lumber, oil--as hitler said, slice it up like a pie. and i never realized that "europe" either looked the other way as germany advanced on russia or actively joined in. truman broke promises right away, as did fdr, but not like truman.

this doc is a real eye opener.
https://rtd.rt.com/films/fascism-a-history/#anchor_watch_video

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 29 2022 19:35 utc | 75

Discussion about genocide usually lead nowehere because they are emotionally charged and lack knowledge/understanding of the crime, its legal elements.
Genocide has been heavily abused for political/propaganda purposes in the last 30 years and has lost all meaning in laymen discussions. Legally, in that same period, it has been developed in international jurisprudence by the international criminal tribunals, and now by the permanent International Criminal Court.
- As I have noted here before - like every crime, it has two elements: a prohibited act, and a legally defined mens rea (state of mind of the perpetrator). There are five criminalised acts that can be genocide (killing members of the group, etc), and there is the intent, called specific intent, which is - the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group AS SUCH. It is this intent which charactersises the crime, makes it particularly egregious ('the crime of crimes'). This intent is difficult to prove. Both elements need to proved beyond reasonable doubt for there to be a finding that genocide was committed.
What type of crimes were committed in Donbas can only be properly established by a legitimate and credible court of law in fair and public proceedings according to the highest standards of law today. It is best to leave genocide aside and concentrate on the most important developments and processes in the world now.

Posted by: JB | Jun 29 2022 19:38 utc | 76

@S, #5:

Thank you for the post #5. It provided me with background information I previously was not privy to, and it confirms my impression of the USSR top dogs at the time of its dissolution that they were a bunch of ignorant bureaucrats (Korbachev being a poster example) who didn't know what they were doing and who didn't care what consequences of what they do would have on their people. It's the recipe for doom of a nation!

It wasn't just Yeltsin. There were no prominent characters within the ruling circles, including the Romanovs and the Communist Party Leadership, who raised the slightest protest when the unravelling started. Those people had no idea of what may entail consequent to their actions and decisions.

This trend of leadership ignorance is now on replay in the Western camp. Just look at them G7, NATO, EU, ....., all them fools including those who previously hide in the shadow of so-called "neutrality". Fools who don't know how to think one step beyond where they stand on today. Fools who are in the footsteps of the Politburo of the USSR back in mid-80's to early 90's.

Would the break-apart of the West, along with their economy and living conditions, follow the Soviet path???

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jun 29 2022 19:39 utc | 77

If you want to read about Wimbledon try this link
http://steelcityscribblings.uk/wp/2022/06/28/anyone-not-russian-for-tennis/
Why not the original WSWS link? Because this one includes a disassociation from the Walsh "Putin is Bad" line which disgraces an otherwise shrewd piece of analysis by a person, David Walsh, who knows better.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 29 2022 19:41 utc | 78

Are there any Dutch people reading and commenting MoA? Just curious about the public opinion in the Netherlands. I'm living abroad (Australia) and have access to sites like nu.nl. I noticed they are pro-Ukraine and 'moderate' comments that do not align with that narrative. I also noticed with my family that there is little room for any open and meaningful debate. I would have thought Europeans in particular are smarter and would see straight through the propaganda and understand the risks involved. In the seventies we went to the streets to protest nuclear arms placed on our soils (Ban the Bom). Now it seems the Dutch are timid and accepts what their government tells them. I'm not pro Russia, but fully denying their side of the argument lacks historical insight.
With this insight and some consideration this war could have been prevented easily. What is going on.

Posted by: Dimitri Xi Jones | Jun 29 2022 19:46 utc | 79

Some thoughts on Russian intentions and plans. The debate here elicited numerous speculations, primarily about the main goal of SMO with respect to how much of Ukrainian territory is to be liberated/taken. One group firmly believes that the goals of demilitarization and denazification cannot be achieved unless all of Ukraine is subdued. The other group believes that Russia will be content with liberating/taking the territory populated by Russian speakers, which are the districts to the East and South, which are also the most developed. The thinking is that Russia does not need the West of the country because it would be difficult to manage given accumulated hatred of everything Russian.

In this debate there hasn't been much of a discussion on how the political and military leadership of Ukraine (one must add here their Western advisors or sponsors) sees the Russian offensive. The official propaganda must, of course, proclaim that the whole territory of Ukraine must be defended and liberated including the Crimea. Recent pronouncements from the West about the need for Ukraine to cede some territory have not yet produced any official proposals, which supports the view they are no more than trial balloons designed to gain time.

But what does the activity of Ukrainian military tell us about their strategic goals? If the Ukrainian leadership thought that giving up some territory to the Russians would save the rest of the country from further destruction, wouldn't they try to negotiate, even to gain time, despite Western diktats. Also, why would they throw everything they have to defend the Line of Contact and suffer horrendous losses in an almost futile attempt to stop the Russian advance.

I am of the opinion that if the Ukrainian leadership had any illusions of stopping the Russians by giving up Donbas they would have made some move to at least explore that option. I believe they have no such illusions, they are aware that their best chance to stop the collapse of the country is right there at the Line of Contact, where they have fortifications and where they have accumulated men and arms and where they can use local population as human shields. Such "favourable" conditions do not exist in the rest of the country. To conclude, I think that the intransigence of the country's leadership is a sign that they know this is an all-or-nothing battle.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 29 2022 19:52 utc | 80

Posted by: Dimitri Xi Jones | Jun 29 2022 19:46 utc | 79

I have the impression that Hole land is ever more rusophobic than the UK, which is a lot. Old scores like in the NorthE Pacific. The plane crash, the Milosevich case and the Yugoslavia tribunal, those are recent, but it comes from way back.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 29 2022 19:54 utc | 81

James Cook @71

your link is terrifying. i had to stop reading it. can't the UN step in here, with amerika basically declaring war?

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 29 2022 19:54 utc | 82

T Paine @ 66

Wasn't talking about Washington, but any number of Baltic cities.
They had, yes indeed, russian overlords for over 40 years.
They know the conditions under them. Little power cuts or free health care don't come into it. They know what to choose.


Down South @ 72

Note how Chechen national guard bravely enters the city
AFTER it has been conquered. Kadyrov sends his congrats from
his palace.

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 29 2022 19:58 utc | 83

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 16:15 utc | 12

Simply put, Yeltsin was the right man for the Outlaw US Empire and the wrong man for Russia until the very last moment when Yeltsin passed the torch to a man right for Russia and wrong for the Outlaw US Empire.

Amen & testify, brother!

Posted by: majoab | Jun 29 2022 20:09 utc | 84


Raphael Lemkin, creator of the term genocide, defined it much more broadly than murder of a group, very much to include gradual elimination of cultures:

“"Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.”

When Lemkin proposed a treaty against genocide to the United Nations in 1945, he defined it as follows:

“The crime of genocide should be recognized therein as a conspiracy to exterminate national, religious or racial groups. The overt acts of such a conspiracy may consist of attacks against life, liberty or property of members of such groups merely because of their affiliation with such groups. The formulation of the crime may be as follows:

“Whoever, while participating in a conspiracy to destroy a national, racial or religious group, undertakes an attack against life, liberty or property of members of such groups is guilty of the crime of genocide.”"...http://genocidewatch.net/2013/03/14/raphael-lemkin-defines-genocide-2/#:~:text=Lemkin%20defined%20genocide%20as%20follows%3A%20%E2%80%9CGenerally%20speaking%2C%20genocide,mass%20killings%20of%20all%20members%20of%20a%20nation.

Posted by: susan mullen | Jun 29 2022 20:09 utc | 85

Very Lengthy article: US/NATO direct war (not proxy) with Russia now not a question of if but when; it is a given with the lunatics in charge: (all wrapped up in "Climate Change)

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/06/29/deafening-drumbeats-for-war-biden-sends-more-u-s-troops-to-ukraine-border-101st-airborne-deployed-six-destroyers-to-mediterranean-f-35-squadrons-to-u-k/#more-234620

Posted by: Thomas | Jun 29 2022 20:09 utc | 86

I live in NL and am a citizen, but am not Dutch. I have been here for more than 20 years. This is a hyper capitalist country, which still retains some labour protections and remnants of a welfare state. These last 20+ years have brought only negative developments in the political and economic system. The media are a catastrophe, like everywhere else in Europe (and the US). Ignorance and passionate hatred of Russia are very widespread. No discussion is possible when the word Russia (or China) is uttered. The scamdemic has exposed, to the bone, the rot of the Dutch system in its entirety - from parliament, to government, to the justice system. There is absolutely NO public debate about anything relevant, and any dissent, or attempt, at a factual discussion, is, since the scamdemic, repressed. There is currently a nation wide farmers protest, which, in my view, is a serious challenge to this government. The fourth Rutte government is disliked more and more, and I think is heading towards being despised. For very good reasons. NL is an excepitonally loyal follower of the US and everything US. You would be surpised how deeply (and criminally, I would add) it is involved in many horrible things in the past and at present. Pretty unbearable.
There are, however, of course, people who are properly informed and who are trying to resist. There are also, as of recently, a couple of independent news outlets doing a decent iformation job.

Posted by: JB | Jun 29 2022 20:16 utc | 87

@82, "can't the UN step in?"

No. UN today exists only to support US terrorism. For example, UN backed US violent overthrow of Ukraine in 2014....https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

Posted by: susan mullen | Jun 29 2022 20:16 utc | 88

Both elements[sic] need to proved beyond reasonable doubt for there to be a finding
Posted by: JB | Jun 29 2022 19:38 utc | 76

No, they don't. "Reasonable doubt" is a burden of proof in US trial procedure, specifically criminal prosecution, which you will discover, if you even bothered to look, is not guaranteed by statute or constitution by every UNGA member nation. SE for, example, doesn't even provide for adversarial defense of a "suspect" (defendant) much less habeas corpus limitation on detention. Which is just one explanation why Assange ended up in mf UK prison after prosecuters dropped the warrant.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 29 2022 20:16 utc | 89

Posted by: Thomas | Jun 29 2022 20:09 utc | 86

I still can't get my head around the fact that Biden (and family) is TOTALLY compromised with graft in both Ukraine and China and yet supposedly is also this hard line realpolitik leader confronting Russia with existential vernichtigkeit (?).

I'm not sure I buy it. I can't help but suspect that this entire thing is political kabuki ushering in a new geopolitical configuration. The West is not going to disappear when this is all over. Some network or other is going to be running it.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 29 2022 20:22 utc | 90

The West so readily uses the word genocide for the Uyghur situation in Xinjiang. The Chinese are not attacking the Uyghurs though, so it should be more than appropriate to use that term for the Donbass.

In fact, the hate for everything Russian that has been promoted in Ukraine for 30 years by Soros and others, is the perfect foundation for a genocide.

Posted by: Nico | Jun 29 2022 20:22 utc | 91

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 29 2022 16:27 utc | 17

If living in Asia I would view the arrival of NATO as a reedition of the colonial invasions that started in the 1600's. I would rather escort them back to Europe and N.A. or sink them if they resist.

Posted by: Richard L | Jun 29 2022 20:22 utc | 92

Dear sln2002 | Jun 29 2022 20:16 utc | 89
beyond reasonable doubt is the accepted standard of proof in international criminal law.
I, actually, do know what I am talking about.

Posted by: JB | Jun 29 2022 20:27 utc | 93

Everyone in the "west" speculates of what might happen in few hours in SMO, and even some Russian TV stations, such as Zvezda, show some of those from the west, who speculates like Ritter on their programs, but all we get to know is what happened after that happens. It is always like that with the Russians.

This is what makes everyone guessing, even (especially) those at the command centres of EU/US/NATO. They panicked in February, and they are still panicking. That's why the "invitation" for two foolish countries to join the NATO. If anyone thinks that all the members of NATO would fight for a member country, if that country is attacked/invaded by Russia, s/he must be utterly foolish. Not even the USA would openly fight Russia. BoJo's UK? It's a joke!

Nato's Article 5? Sure, against a weaker country, such as Afghanistan.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 29 2022 20:34 utc | 94

wikiwtf

On 20 August 1985 President Reagan authorized a test against a satellite. The test was delayed to provide notice to the United States Congress. The target was the Solwind P78-1, an orbiting solar observatory that was launched on 24 February 1979.
After the ASAT Tests 2008
followed thirteen months after China used one of its aging satellites for target practice ... The Bush administration’s public rationale was that the dead satellite’s fuel tank might survive re-entry, and could cause a hazardous chemical spill.
APR 18 2022
To date, four countries — the U.S., Russia, China and India — have destroyed their own satellites in ASAT tests.

soooo I guess, the Pentagon decided this year is the time to pull up the ladder for the sake of all humanity OPPRESSED by disinformation and needlessly terrorized by space junk.

NATO (1949 mil): US (CENTCOM, AFRICOM, EUCOM, NORTHCOM, INDOPACOM, SOUTCOM, SPACECOM), EU-EEA, AU, NZ*

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 29 2022 20:35 utc | 95

JB @ 87

Funny, the same situation as me.

The Dutch and British have a heavy colonial history. Lot of baggage to carry.

Posted by: alek_a | Jun 29 2022 20:35 utc | 96

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 29 2022 19:58 utc | 83

Do you not know what role the Chechens perform? Hint: "conquering" means rooting out/disarming the enemy- this is on-the-ground work (door-to-door), the most dangerous type of work because you're up close and personal to danger.

Posted by: Seer | Jun 29 2022 20:37 utc | 97

More video from the Shopping Mall

Today French TV LCI was in the Kredmash factory. Just have a look at the first 2 mn. The "mall" is really close from the factory, was hit on northeast corner [or railways]
French TV conclusion is that the first missile hit the factory and the second one probably missed a few meters.
French LCI :
https://youtu.be/XE26ZH-SX3

As T Paine | Jun 29 2022 18:40 utc | 63 wrote from gardian, they don't said [and don't even try to know] if this "shopping center" was actually active. A more false fact checked.
Stinky story

Posted by: La Bastille | Jun 29 2022 20:38 utc | 98

Posted by: 45

Adding to your comment…. On 1 July 2021 a Starlink satellite that had left it’s orbit of 555 KM and came to rest at 382 KM, the same orbit as the Chinese space station with people on broad, forced the station to move to a new orbit. Once is one thing but then it happened again. I call that an act of war.


Complaint to the UN

Posted by: Dodgy Bodger | Jun 29 2022 20:39 utc | 99

Mike | Jun 29 2022 17:10 utc | 34

Russia mod reports are no different to what they where in Syria. DPR publish their losses so a rough idea of losses to Russia LDPR side can be judged from from.

Russian forces appear to be mostly a holding force Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Kharkiv.
DPR, LPR, Chechens, paratroops, cossacks and Russian volunteers trained in Chechnya appear to be taking part in the offensives within Luhansk and Donetsk.
DPR in the current phase have losses killed of a bit over 20 per week on average. Or at least that's what it was some weeks ago.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 29 2022 20:39 utc | 100

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