Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 23, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-94

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Posted by b on June 23, 2022 at 14:25 UTC | Permalink

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" Doesn't a society want a leadership structure superior to themselves? In intelligence, in morality, in guts, in kindness, in characters, etc. etc.? ...' Oriental Voice@46
If you simply re-read what you have written and understand the implications of what you have said, you will realise that your reasoning is fallacious.
You begin by asserting that members of society are incapable of ruling themselves and that they therefore seek superior types do do it for them. How, given that they have little judgement, would they choose leaders better than themselves? How could someone who is incapable of deciding the rights and wrongs of policies and political issues, be able to select someone who is capable? How does a fool determine whether another man is intelligent, or honest, courageous, loving etc?
Is it not more likely that fools would be easily tricked into selecting not better but worse characters than themselves?
Your formula would simply increase the power given to potential tyrants or thieves by disqualifying 'mere citizens' from judging their rulers, who would by definition, be better and better qualified than them.
What you suggest is not only unoriginal but the basis of every tyrant-from Louis XIV to Mussolini who ever lived on the mistaken respect of those they exploited and abused.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 23 2022 23:00 utc | 101

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 23 2022 22:33 utc | 96

An unmentionable factor here is the small low-density population involved.

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 23 2022 23:06 utc | 102

In other news

In spite pf USSA vain attempts to block access to all forms of Russian media since February 2022. The actual web volume has changed very little....

Micr$oft - Even after all efforts to reduce traffic to Sputniknews and, consumption of Russian propaganda is still higher than before the war (~60MM per month in the US, on par with the WSJ), the company said on Wednesday.

This implies there are a lot of dissenters to the USSA ministry of truth fiction and propaganda......

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 23 2022 23:10 utc | 103

Bevin - 101
Exactly. That's why the anti-democratic "republican" liberal argument "We should just elect leaders and people should STFU after that and be ruled" is so stupid. If people aren't clever enough to vote on some specific topic, then how the heck are they clever enough to pick the best leader, how can they actually know who would be the most effective and knowledgeable candidate to rule their country? Either go as direct-democracy as possible, or go full autocracy - both having very different advantages and very different issues.
Though I suppose the likes of Aristotle or Polybius might make a case for a mixed system, but not based on the 200-y old bogus liberal argument of course.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jun 23 2022 23:32 utc | 104

Don Bacon @ 90

I volunteered to help the Nader campaign in 2000 and was very hopeful. I spent time prepping the campaign office in the Central District in Seattle- painted the bathrooms in the dark. The Seattle Times wrote a story about his campaign and spent as much time mocking my terrible paint job and the state of his offfice as his platform. They wouldn't even let me him debate Kerry and Bush. He was the Democratic scapegoat du jour after Kerry 'lost' the electoral college vote while winning the popular vote nationally. He has been targeted by mainstream Democrats ever since.

When Obama was elected in 2008, Nader was interviewed an wisely cautioned against too much hope for change. He said, "Wait to see who he appoints to his cabinet" if you want to see which way his wind is going to blow. Well, shortly thereafter Obama appointed a slew of Wall Street cronies and Democratic partisans to his cabinet.

Nader has a podcast that is worth listening to...he still knows what's happening, connects the dots, and provides nearly 70 years of context when he talks about current events. He is not supportive of the SMO but he knows NATO's culpability in this whole sordid affair.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 23 2022 23:39 utc | 105

Oops...Bush v Gore not Kerry.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 23 2022 23:43 utc | 106

Actually the greenest tiny town in Germany undoubtedly stays warm in the winter with natural gas!

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 23 2022 23:46 utc | 107

@91 "The European wars of the 19th and 20th centuries were not German imperialism."

Germany got into the imperialism game late . The best bits were already taken and they had to make do with some African leftovers.

Posted by: dh | Jun 23 2022 23:58 utc | 108

@ Re: Donbass vs. Normandy
Posted by: james | Jun 23 2022 15:25 utc | 7
@ Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 23 2022 17:30 utc | 31

Regarding the equivalence of the WW2 Normandy Falaise Gap to the pockets of Ukraine - they ARE NOT.
As I pointed out back in March:

‘I’ve been to Mont Ormel many times. The monument to these who ‘closed the gap’ was not celebrated till long after and is now a fine little attraction along the ‘Denoument’ trail that some retards dress up as soldiers and drive around in jeeps during June who should be best avoided otherwise you may end up making them cry by point g and laughing at them.
ANYWAY - the truth of that battle is not fully acknowledged.
It was a random company of Poles numbered in just hundreds who held the little hill that the only road that could carry tanks and weapons back towards Paris or infact to Berlin to perhaps hold the Red Army back that might have allowed the Allies to not stick with the Yalta agreement with Stalin.
The allies could have obliterated the retreating Germans at many points and over these summer weeks. But they didn’t. They wanted them to go to the Eastern front.
It seems the Polish brigade hadn’t been told of this. But fearlessly they proceeded to plug the gap. The were NOT reinforced or given artillery or plane cover but the Germans could not get control of the hillock and pass they occupied. Being narrow meant the greater numbers couldn’t make a difference. A bottle neck.
Most German units were still using horses. The panzers had no chance to get to the hill and thus the pocket formed - eventually given the rate of progress of the Red Army it became too late for the Germans. The ‘allies’ overlooking the plain with canons finally had no choice but to go to the ‘rescue’ of the Poles, let rip and left a cloud of flies over the few square miles for the next few years with the awful stench of death - many horses and men - the vast orchards destroyed.
The area has returned to its bucolic charm , cider and calvados made and the little village of Camembert not far away giving its name to the fine cheeses of the dairy industry there.
The Poles? Ha, they didn’t get Poland returned to them. They were fooled then and they are fools now
Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 16 2022 15:21 utc | 432

The war porn tourists and their misrepresenting that history , revisionism of Patton and US superiority has been going on ever since culminating in films over the last few decades that have actually reimagined WW2 history for future generations.

Avoid. It is not difficult to find the real stuff.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 23 2022 23:58 utc | 109

@Clueless Joe

I apologize for, a few weeks ago, when there were a few trolls showing up and being a nuisance, that -impatient- I lumped you in with them. Probably I meant jo6pack.


Great dialect btw.

Posted by: Featherless | Jun 24 2022 0:15 utc | 110

bevin | Jun 23 2022 23:00 utc | 101

Terrible stuff oriental voice is posting. Who knows with what he suggests we could end up living under 'authoritarian' governments like Russia and China who actually have their peoples well being first and foremost. Both those countries have people of well above average intelligence in leadership positions.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 24 2022 0:16 utc | 111

“Johnathan Powell (Blairite negotiator for Northern Ireland agreement in the 90s) has an article in the Guardian;
"Putin is not yet ready to end the Ukraine war. When he is, we must be prepared"
Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 23 2022 16:08 utc | 17
I kept reading but Powell's bias is obvious. Negotiations, if they happen, won't get anywhere with attitudes like that.
Posted by: dh | Jun 23 2022 16:54 utc | 24 “

The posh mandarin DS aristo bros, who insist on having their name pronounced as “poll”.
One of them was mischief making in the Kazakh Color coup attempt just before the shitshow in Ukraine. Another ‘Greenmantle riding forth’ in their endless Great Game. Like that French cousin bringer of woe BHLevy.

Failures and utter and complete ***** !

Having to make up a new narrative in the U.K. intelligence house journal - the decrepit , poisonous rag sheet is a sure sign of utter defeat in their decades long scheme of tickling Russia to death!

& by the way Mo Mowlam did a lot of the actual fruitful negotiating. Whilst having chemo. Now SHE WAS a real proper politician.

Powvovelesses can do one.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 24 2022 0:17 utc | 112

Fighting to the last Ukrainian may entail using the young of Europe from the slums to be Ukrainian for a few days as extras in a live action with long term possibilitieS.

Posted by: Stegiel | Jun 24 2022 0:35 utc | 113

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 23 2022 17:49 utc | 36@

Once the Donbass is fully liberated the Russians can go the full Genghis on Western Ukraine which is populated by hostiles who in my opinion frankly deserve it

I don't think the Donbass is close to being fully liberated, as per the maps posted on The Saker a few days ago the Ukrainians control nearly half of the Donbass Oblast(?).

Perhaps someone can clear this up ???

Posted by: Saggy | Jun 24 2022 0:40 utc | 114

Posted by: S | Jun 23 2022 20:28 utc | 62

Thanks for the tabulation.
Over the period the UAF has lost a total of 647 MLRS or 38 per week (std 24) with median losses of 33 per week.
The 4 HIMARS the US have reportedly already sent will have a short operational lifetime.
The Art losses are problematic due to the mix of tube artillery and squad level mortars. Over the period the UAF has lost a total of 2088 Arty systems or 123 units per week (std 39 median 120)

Even if you accept RF over-counting by 25% or 50% there exists a high loss rate which is unlikely to be addressed by the patchwork of NATO hand-me-downs.

Not reflected in your numbers is the likely percentage of weapons diverted to the black market, or sold for scrap. Not sure the value of a pound of titanium in UA currency. Suspect some member of the bar will have the figure at hand.


Posted by: Sushi | Jun 24 2022 0:51 utc | 115

even if I am pro but well wtf

why did the west make russians angry as in ww2? only because of lizy!?

Posted by: Macpott | Jun 24 2022 1:03 utc | 116

@DunGroanin - thank you for your posts !!

@Macpott - what is your question exactly ?

Posted by: Featherless | Jun 24 2022 1:19 utc | 117

Posted by: Saggy | Jun 24 2022 0:40 utc | 113

Have a good look at one of the several maps. Military summary, DPA or even Livemap. You will notice that while about 50% of Donetsk in the the South-east the other 50% is directly west of Luhansk. Basically taking this half of Donetsk, must await completion of the Luhansk operation. This is as much about supply lines as anything else.

Currently the situation is this
95% Luhansk -the remainder will probably fall within the week, based on yesterday's news
50% of Donetsk, but the other half still to go. This will also happen quickly i suspect.
67% of Zapohizhia
85% of Kherson
10% Kharkov

(hey people I am being very, very, very rough here, so correct me, but not too rudely as it is a very rough guess.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 24 2022 1:20 utc | 118

@DunGroanin : is “Powvovelesses” a typo ?

Posted by: featherless | Jun 24 2022 1:21 utc | 119

Dr. Volodymyr & Mr. Zelensky: the dark side of the Ukrainian president by Guy Mettan

Posted by: bevin | Jun 24 2022 1:29 utc | 120

@Sushi - Ti commodities price listed in the ballpark of $15/kg . don't underestimate the enterprising nature of the local authorities and their sponsors (ie oligarchs) in those parts - they'll not waste the value of any intact hardware. However some of the more exotic pieces would come with Western minders attached, which presents some ethical dilemmas for the would-be profiteer.

@Watcher - Saggy is one of these lovelies who is here just to waste everyone's time (I'm surprised he or she is back, actually). Anyway, don't bother

other news ... Cossack Regiment claims Gorskoe and Zolotoe now completely liberated -- -- Suggests that for the first time at any significant scale, the UA forces have come to their senses and made an actual retreat.

Hopefully we will see more of this moving forward. Attention IMO to be on the nearby oil refinery area. Given UA intensification of shelling the crap out of any infrastructure they lost to LNR/DNR, the sensible thing may be to just reduce that plateau area pre-emptively, rather than screw around trying to fight for it intact just to have it blown up by UA shelling out of Seversk. We'll see. Probably not much will happen for a couple days but who knows.

Posted by: ptb | Jun 24 2022 1:56 utc | 121

@ DunGroanin | Jun 23 2022 23:58 utc | 108

thanks for sharing your take on all this dungroanin...

Posted by: james | Jun 24 2022 1:57 utc | 122

from CNN
French President Macron said that today’s decision to grant Ukraine and Moldova EU candidate status sends “a strong signal to Russia.”

“The message that is sent today very clearly and we just saw it with President Zelensky. It's a very strong message, coherent with what our Europe since day one of the conflict has known to do. Which is: reacting swiftly, in a historic way and united. Through sanctions, two days later and six times since then. Through macroeconomic, military and financial support to Ukraine. And now through this political gesture,” Macron said. “This strong united Europe has been up to the task."
“More broadly today, it's a European perspective that we recognize to Ukraine, Moldavia and Georgia. Which is a very strong signal to Russia and in the geopolitical context we mentioned and the choice made for Ukraine and Moldavia to be granted this candidate status to the European Union,” he added.
“We owed this to the Ukrainian people which is fighting to defend our values, their sovereignty and territorial integrity. And we also owed it to Moldavia regarding its political situation, of the destabilization attempts it is experiencing, and the generosity it showed in the context we just mentioned,” he said.. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 3:44 utc | 123

I just went to have a look at just which current EU members would be paying out to the two new members and something very, very, very strange occurred.

Now I found a nice graph of information for 2018, but that is just a little out of date. So i found a 2021 table of contributions BUT could not find any table of recipients. Moreover when i thought i found a link it was always blocked.

So if there is in fact any real journalist reading this site, i suggest you go hunt this data. it MUST be somewhere in the documentation, but it is not on the webstie. or not where I could find it.

Of course they must hide the truth. Germany has been funding most of the rest for years, with a bit of help from the UK and France. With the UK gone and Germany about to face a severe recession, all that yummy supporting money that the EU minor states have been getting is going to vanish.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 24 2022 4:01 utc | 124

@ watcher 123
Here's the 2018 contributors and beneficiaries in EU, from Germany to Poland. Ukraine would be in the Poland category but worse. . .Probably we can't expect the EU to provide current data when covering up the truth is what they live by.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 4:22 utc | 125

“The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born.”

Cliché but apt description of the turbulent times we’re experiencing. Maybe some of us, kindhearted humanists, were naive enough to hope for a fast resolution of the situation. But, in the end, it’s a very powerful, deeply entrenched Empire that needs to be defeated. This’ll probably take a few decades of intense dogged struggle. 404 is just the beginning.

By now, Europe has amply demonstrated that it is deeply invested in the Empire and wants the racket to continue. Moreover, it always seems risky to bet against the incumbent. Sitting on the fence may seem advantageous to some. All this will prolong the agony of the Empire.

Although Russia has more or less the tacit support of M-w (Mundo minus the west), it’s pretty much fighting the Empire alone now. Obviously, this situation cant go on for decades. Russia will deal with 404 appropriately, but the Empire is already preparing the next wars. Finland, should it persist in its NATO bid, could be one. It’s bad engineering to let just one pillar take all the stress. No matter how strong the pillar, the whole new edifice of M-w could come crashing down. The load needs to be evenly distributed among all pillars.

China cannot sit out the next engagement. Russia could start the special military operation in the north of Finland. China could do a landing in the South. This would be excellent training for the kind of maneuvers they’ll have to conduct to retake Taiwan. If the PLA cant take Helsinki, forget about Taipei.

The Global South needs to get involved too. This is not just about Russia’s security. This is not just about the rise of China. This is about the liberation of M-w. This is an old-fashioned slave revolt, but this time Spartacus has a very good chance. But we can’t let him fight alone.

These are gonna be difficult times for us mooners, as we’re peace-loving humanists at heart. But we’re not naive or dogmatic pacifists. That boot on the face of the Global South wont come off without some shoving.

Invest in your health, invest in learning useful skills. At some point money in the west wont be worth the paper it’s printed on. Most of us, who aint rich and insulated from inflation, will face hard times, but, verily my friends, is there anything more glorious than a slave revolt?

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jun 24 2022 4:56 utc | 126

@ bevin | Jun 23 2022 22:42 utc | 98

The First World War?

You forget, Britain and France, and Austria, were meddling in the Balkans. And Germany and Russia, surely others too, were involved. (Ironically, the Brit spooks today call the yank spooks, "the cousins", while Nicolai, Wilhelm, and the Brit whose name escapes me, were back then literally, blood cousins, whose kids visited every summer.)

And the MIC of the time, the "armaments manufacturers", were as hungry for profits as they are today. And the 'Berlin to Bagdad Railway', the 'Belt and Road Initiative' of that time. And Bismarck forced into retirement. And public and secret treaties. And Sarajevo, the Archduke, Balkan useful idiots getting vodka'd up, sneaking across the Austrian border, to make themselves feel like real men. And Austrian border guards fed up, chasing them back, neglecting to report to headquarters, causing Russia to respond ... and (domino theory) all the other treaties activated. The armaments manufacturers lighting candles and sacrificing virgins to Satan.

The second world war? This is trickier :

So many documents are still official secrets, or shredded. So many grandchildren are still alive and lawyered up. So few people admitting to reading Mein Kampf ... and so many places where it is conveniently illegal.
The Churchill family for generations preached publically, that Germany and Russia should fight it out; and Britain scoop up the spoils. Winnie, after the war, insisted that Germany should be reduced to a pastoral reserve, and Germans to a few hundred thousand peasants, to tend the cattle and harvest the grain ... for industrial countries who spoke English. The americans had larger ambitions.

During the war various well known american people said publicly,
that when the nazis are winning the commies should be supported,
and when the commies are winning the nazis should be supported.

And those photographs appear from time to time of the royal brats goosestepping around the royal estates and throwing the trademarked nazi salute.

Before the war, Chamberlain went to Munchen, and ... we do not know really what was agreed. However, deindustrialized Germany grabbed Czechoslovakia, and her famous armaments industries. Several Czech films which I have seen insist that the Czech airforce was counted carefully, and especially part of the deal.

We do know that britain and france signed treaties to defend Poland, and encouraged the Polaks to annoy the Germans; then they neglected to respond when the Germans invaded.

And on the other side of the continent, the Germans allowed the British Expeditionary Armies to board the citizen navy and escape. Indeed, the Germans several times thereafter acted like they thought the Brits were real Aryans (not to be confused with Aryans ... yes spelled exactly the same).

Me a nazi?

No. You may be the only person who accused me, who was not him/her self a cryptonazi. Oddly, hardly anybody who accuses the americans of wielding the head-chopping terrorists, is accused of being himself a salafist.

When I was A youngster, many years ago, they taught us, British foreign policy, blah blah blah, balance of powers, blah blah blah. You know, lets Germany and Russia fight and we will loot the ruins.

They did not teach us, Attila the Hun,, balance of powers,,
I think it is in the Niebelungenlied, Attila, remembered by German speakers as Etzel, allied with one nation, who took the front ranks, against another nation, then the Huns slaughtered the survivors of both nations.

I guess they don't teach Nibelungenlied to German children anymore. Certainly not to ukie children, some of whom are Attila's direct descendents.

Off Topic :

Hungarians still name baby boys, Attila. Jimmie, who later told me his name was actually Imre, always evaded telling me what Magyars thought about Attila.
Wikipedia to the rescue : Hungarian royals claimed descent from Attila.

Imre fled Hungary in 1956, hoping to find streets paved with gold, or at least cobbles.
Leaving Anya behind.

Posted by: Otter | Jun 24 2022 5:07 utc | 127

Posted by: watcher | Jun 24 2022 4:01 utc | 123

No, I don't think the money is going to vanish. But some of the minor states will suddenly find they are now being expected to contribute.
Some of the bug recipients will suddenly find they'll get a lot less than they are used to.

Which is probably the major reason the EU intends to officially steal Russia's frozen reserves. And everything else Russian they can confiscate.

Posted by: Martina | Jun 24 2022 5:08 utc | 128

pretzelattack @76:

Thank you very much for the article. I am surprised by the revelations about flaws in the Milgram experiment(s)and stunned that this information was so widely suppressed/ignored. The article is a powerful lesson in the importance of paying close attention to published research findings, but the article makes clear that the flaws were so readily overlooked because they supported biases. Again, thank you for the article.

Posted by: Pundita | Jun 24 2022 5:44 utc | 129

Germany looks to rationing natural gas after Russia cuts supply!

Really! Because I thought Germany shut down construction on the pipelines and refuses to pay for gas in rubles.

Hell, even if Russia "cuts supply" Germany (and Europe) deserve it.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 23 2022 22:22 utc | 93

Germany is paying for gas in rubles (except for Shell Germany, but they are not a decisive factor here). Germany didn't shut down construction, either. Germany just refuses to certify the new pipelines. What you see here is friendly fire by western sanctions. But that is something we will not admit. Never. Epecially not Minister Habeck who finally seems to have got the message that he needs to talk to Canada to get Russian gas flowing again.

I read yesterday that German households are now expected to store enough gas for at least two weeks of operations. Great idea. Most of us don't even have storage tanks, and probably would not get them approved for safety reasons. Or get them built (let alone filled) before winter.

However, I find no fault with your conclusions: Germany deserves it. So does Poland, but Poland has filled its gas storage to the brim - it seems Germany still sent gas there even though its own storage tanks are emptying fast.

Posted by: Martina | Jun 24 2022 5:47 utc | 130

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 4:22 utc | 124

Thanks Yes I found 2018. I was rather trying to get the 2021 figure ie post Brexit.

It has vanished

Posted by: watcher | Jun 24 2022 5:55 utc | 131

If the gas storages were completely filled, Germany would be able to hold out without Russian gas for 2.5 months of an average winter. This was stated by the head of the Federal Network Agency (German regulator) Klaus Müller.

“If the storage facilities in Germany were mathematically 100% full, we could completely do without Russian gas for only 2.5 months, and then the storage tanks would be empty,” he said on June 23 on the ZDF television channel.

Muller added that the situation with gas supplies to Germany is tense, but still stable. However, in his opinion, it is necessary to find additional suppliers and save fuel.

Only, who'd be supplying is the question. 😏

Posted by: ostro | Jun 24 2022 5:57 utc | 132

Russia conveys its position on the transit blockade of Kaliningrad through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and insists that it is right. - Friday, June 24, Dmitry Peskov.

“There is no need to rush here, but at the same time, of course, we are determined enough. It takes a certain amount of time before decisions are made. We are no longer talking about dialogue with partners, but about negotiations with opponents."

When asked whether Moscow would take retaliatory measures, he explained that, first of all, all participants in the events should carefully analyze the situation. However, the legitimacy of the claims of the Russian Federation is obvious, and the authorities intend to seek the lifting of transport restrictions by Lithuania, even if the process turns out to be difficult.

“Let's not rule anything out. Let's hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. What we always do,” summed up Peskov.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 24 2022 6:05 utc | 133

If you are living in a sanctioned country by your own government, but can get around those sanctions, have a read, (in Russian, so the need of machine translation)

Posted by: ostro | Jun 24 2022 6:35 utc | 134

From IntelSlava

🇺🇦⚡Zelensky wants to remove Ivan Bakanov from his post as head of the SBU for failures in the field of security.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 24 2022 7:11 utc | 135

@Down South

If Elensky would care about security of his people he would remove himself from his post (or better the face of the earth).

Posted by: Goingo | Jun 24 2022 7:24 utc | 136

Posted by: Goingo | Jun 24 2022 7:24 utc | 136

It is time for the Ukrainian women to start really protesting against taking their men to sure death.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 24 2022 7:28 utc | 137

Hilariously, Oryx, one of the most prolific (and debunked) of the BrOsint "Russia is losing" commentators on twitter, has just made a tactical retreat.

He's taking a few days off "to rest", while pro-russian tweeters are occupying his territory.

I like it when the twittersphere actually mirrors reality. :-).

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 24 2022 7:32 utc | 138

@ Posted by: featherless | Jun 24 2022 1:21 utc | 119
Nah just a late night drunken attempt at taking the piss out of the entitled English (French/Norman) descendents who insist on their names being pronounced in a different way to the way they are spelt. Some insidiously like the Powell’s as ‘Pole’.
Others are quaint like the Cholmondoley’s as ‘chumly’.
It’s the ones with the DS unelected powers I resent.
Did you know btw that British laws are enacted by the queen in French? Still😆

@ Posted by: Otter | Jun 24 2022 5:07 utc | 127
Magnificent - I’ll say Pynchon-esque even !
Add in Peenemunde and why the rockets were to be aimed at London and New York and we’d get to the various hidden historical truths.

Generally on NS2 - I’ll repeat my opinion - you don’t build a bridge or tunnel or road or ports and then not use them.
In fact I could argue that the only reason the U.K. was forced to join the EU was to get the Chunnel built !
BrexShit hasn’t led us to fill it in from our side has it?
Shell/BP and a few other ‘giants’ are the modern synthesis of the Dutch and English East India Companies - older than most nation states (invented for greater control and stealability of real Wealth of peoples - they always murder and rob and profit from all sides.
NS2 was built to upgrade European energy security with EurAsia - the kerfuffle is about who will make the profits from it! Gas will flow because it HAS to otherwise millions will likely perish and that prospect means the ancient rulers will be threatened with mass uprisings and that would mean the palaces and estates being fully taken and their ancient family lines and thieving ways being fully destroyed once and for all!
That is the root of the prime angst against Russia/China leadership that has refused to kowtow and respect the ancients claims - absolutely irreversibly now.
The ancients are busy impoverishing us in our own lands now so we can be returned to the serfs we started as, we will ‘never own anything and be happy with our lot or else’. The manufactured inflation and emptying of our savings started well before the SMO.

All things are connected - because the pale blue dot is tiny. And the next planet is a long long long way away. 😉

Have a one day barflies, where ever you are on the Dot.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 24 2022 7:38 utc | 139

@ostro | Jun 24 2022 5:57 utc | 132
To get a rough idea about the situation I had a look at the numbers several months ago, even before this conflict flared up. Might be useful for some that seem confused about the European dependency on Russia for NG.

NG = Natural Gas
bcm = billion cubic meter
industry = agricultural, chemical, etc. Also includes power plants.

The EU consumed over 400bcm of NG over the past years.
Russia supplied about 200bcm of that. The other 200bcm is delivered by pipeline from Norway (about half), by pipeline from Libya and Algeria (to southern Europe, mostly for industrial purposes), by LNG from all kinds of countries (also from Russia, already included in the 200bcm above) and some of it is produced by EU countries themselves.

Claims of Russia providing 'only' 40% of NG are correct, if you look at the years when the UK was still in the EU. The UK consumed about 80bcm/year, however they also produced about 80bcm/year. They still export/import because of different consumption pattern in summer/winter.

The year 2020 was a very strange year in many ways as a result of many covid-19 lock-downs over Europe, it also had a significant impact on NG consumption by industry. Don't look too hard at the figures from that year.

The thing to realize that NG consumption in the EU (likewise for UK) is not a constant. Three quarters of the NG consumption is in the cold half of the year, one quarter in the warm half of the year.

So for the EU as a whole, about 100bcm is consumed in 'summer' (six warmer months, May-September) mostly by industry and power plants and about 300bcm is consumed in 'winter' (six colder months, November-April).

The amount of imported NG is roughly the same in these periods. The capacity of NG storage in the EU is about 100bcm.

These numbers together give you a good idea of what is happening.
Summer: 200bcm imported -> 100bcm for industry, 100bcm to storage.
Winter: 200bcm imported -> 100bcm for industry, 200bcm consumed mostly for heating.

During 'winter' the consumed 300bcm comes from three sources:
-100bcm from other sources
-100bcm from Russia directly
-100bcm from storage. Gas that was stored in summer when Russia provided 100bcm of the NG that the EU imported. Simplified: all Russian gas.

Understand this (again very rough) flow and you understand why politicians and media that claim that "once storage has been filled we will be fine this winter" are talking out of their asses.

Posted by: Loocust | Jun 24 2022 7:41 utc | 140

The latest from LiveUAmap:

2 hours ago

Ukrainian troops have received order to retreat from Sieverodonetsk, says local governor Serhiy Haidai

an hour ago

Car blown up in Kherson killing collaborator Dmitry Savluchenko

Googling for "Dmitry Savluchenko" brought up these two articles:

The prosecutor’s office will punish the collaborators for setting up a “rescue committee” in Kherson - TOPNews, 19.03.2022

The Kherson regional prosecutor’s office informed in absentia about the suspicion of a resident of the city of Kherson of treason. This was reported by the press service of the Office of the Prosecutor General.

According to the investigation, on March 16, 2022, the suspect, acting with accomplices in the interests of the aggressor country, held an illegal meeting of the pseudo-organ of the rescue committee “For Peace and Order” created by the occupiers.

Court Bans Two Pro-Russian Parties in Kherson - 14 June Kyiv, Ukraine

The Lviv Court of Appeal imposed a ban on the work of the party of the former mayor of Kherson "Vladimir Saldo Bloc", which the invaders appointed as the head of their administration and the Derzhava party, where Kherson collaborator Kirill Stremousov was a member of the development council.

Doing the search again brings up fresh information.

One of most famous collaborators Savluchenko was liquidated in Kherson. VIDEO&PHOTOS

Unknown people blew up the car in which Dmitry Savluchenko was. He died on the spot.

This was reported by local telegram channels. Also the information was confirmed by the Russian state mass media, informs Censor.NET.

The explosion took place around 8 am. The car caught fire. There was one person inside - Savluchenko himself. Local telegram channels write that the car contained ammunition that detonated.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2022 8:16 utc | 141

The US still pumping weapons into Ukraine.

"The US is providing Ukraine another package of security assistance worth $450 million that will include High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, artillery rounds and patrol boats, National Security Council coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby said on Thursday.

"The United States announced another additional $450 million worth of security assistance to Ukraine as part of our commitment to help Ukraine defend its democracy in the face of unprovoked Russian aggression. This package contains weapons and equipment including new high-mobility artillery rocket systems, tens of thousands of additional rounds of ammunition for the artillery systems that have already been provided and patrol boats to help Ukraine defend its coast and its waterways," he said.

He said Washington had provided Ukraine with a total of about $6.1 billion in security assistance since February 24 and $6,8 billion since President Joe Biden assumed his office."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 24 2022 8:36 utc | 142

Like the attack at Kramatorsk train station the event that killed many Ukrainian civilians, the perpetrators were the Ukrainian armed forces, the Bucha event also wrongly blamed on Russian forces both events have dropped off the Wests radar now that they've been exposed as carried out by the Ukrainian forces.

"Western nations leave unanswered Russian enquiries concerning the staged provocation in Bucha, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview to the national broadcaster of Belarus, aired on Thursday.

"As soon as facts proving that it was a hypocritical, cynical provocation were made public, everyone immediately went silent about it," he said. "Not many people are mentioning Bucha now."

"At the moment, we are making enquiries on whether the bodies that were discovered with such publicity and shown to the entire world have ever been identified. There has been no answer. They also remain silent about an article by The Guardian, which says that initial autopsy results named fragmentation wounds as the cause of most deaths. This information immediately receded from the public view," Lavrov said."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 24 2022 8:41 utc | 143

Posted by: njet | Jun 23 2022 19:45 utc | 53

njet: Never before in my life I have experienced a political situation which shows so drastically the nonexistence of real political alternatives. Every party in Germany wants to participate at the system. A system which obviously systematically excludes reasonable alternatives or logic thinking. The grip to power is too seductive.

gerhard: YES

njet: Democracy is a hoax, which can be overthrown only by an authorative avantguard.

gerhard: YES - behind every "democracy" sits an authorative oligarchy which can only become overwhelmed by another (stronger) power.

njet: But this avantguard will not develope in Germany. Germany has played its role in the 19th and early 20th century. Now it’s becoming irrelevant. May be that’s not so bad.

gerhard: NO! Without Tauroggen, Alexander would not have reached Paris. The key still is in Germany. And Putin & Co. this time will not reach Paris again. Sorry! Despite some friends there ...

njet: B, I don’t think there will be soon a new political leadership in Germany that will try to repair the relations to Russia. Change will come from abroad only.

gerhard: NO! Change will come ONLY from Germany (see above).

njet: I cannot publish my opinion and articles, because I would hurt my business and networks, and this won’t change. There is no alternative for Germany but staying aside the US. EVERY ALTERNATIVES WOULD BE THE END OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY.

gerhard: Germany has "ended" so many times before - and still is alive. And the 'best' of Germany is not located in the 'political' field. Do You realize that the whole modern cultural-technical world (or at least 95% of it ...) has German roots, even when such roots were growing in foreign soil? [like moonofalabama ...]. Do You realize that the first of such missiles Russia today is proud of were developed during the last years of WWII in Germany?

njet: In other words: Germany will have to be defeated a third time to make an end to german imperialism. War is inevitable.

Gerhard: YES!! An be all aware of this!!

My statements against Your statements. Discussion not necessary. I feel we understand each other. Same type of wood ...

kind regard & best wishes, gerhard

Posted by: Gerhard | Jun 24 2022 8:45 utc | 144

Posted by: JulianJ | Jun 24 2022 7:32 utc | 139

Hilariously, Oryx, one of the most prolific (and debunked) of the BrOsint "Russia is losing" commentators on twitter, has just made a tactical retreat.

What does "BrOsint" stand for?

I understand it is a brotherhood of Open Source Intelligence Twitter accounts, who are sworn to silence and to never notice Ukrainian positions or troop movements or report anything negative about Ukraine.

My guess is that BrOsint stands for Brothers Osint, but am I correct?


I spent the first three months of the war only following Russian language Telegram channels and only opened Twitter a month ago.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2022 8:47 utc | 145

Northrop Grumman's Cygnus spacecraft received clearance for a second attempt to correct the International Space Station's orbit on June 25. It was originally scheduled for June 23, but did not take place due to engine problems. So far, the Russian cargo ship Progress MS remains the most reliable and trouble-free way to correct the ISS orbit.

The thing is Cygnus needs Russian space engines, PD-181 from Energomash. At the moment there's only 4 such engines left for the Cygnus, that is, only for two rocket launches. USA's own sanctions hitting NASA. Russia won't supply any for now. There are pretty brainy people advising the demented Joe...😏

Posted by: ostro | Jun 24 2022 8:48 utc | 146

There is this argument (which I consider as propaganda) that empire of lies has no trouble with maintaining usd status and their pyramid scheme running because:

"The United States has the largest known deposits of shale oil, an estimated 2.175 trillion barrels (345.8 km3) of potentially recoverable oil.
2020 at 25USD barrel – 54.4 Trillion USD value
2022 at 110USD barrel – 239.25 Trillion USD value"

The source is of course as poisonous (wikipedia) as the claim is built based on assumtion (potentially recoverable).

Would anyone here have a link for a good writing debunking this myth. I mean, I understand the number of reasons why the argument must be total nonsense, but it would be great to have some well written arguments that can be used to kill this myth.

Many thanks for anyone coming up with link, articles, arguments, etc.

Posted by: Tigger | Jun 24 2022 9:05 utc | 147

"A car was blown up in Kherson. The head of the Department of Family, Youth and Sports of the Kherson Regional State Administration died as result"

Told you, extermination of the local ukr/nato leadership is the only way.
The good news is that only near Lisichansk >1000 nazis were killed in just 2 days and many others have surrendered. Bojo keeps attacking Snake island and failing.

Posted by: rk | Jun 24 2022 9:13 utc | 148

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jun 24 2022 4:56 utc | 126

True: one pillar cannot carry all the weight. However: people in the west are going to rebel before long, which has already begun in the UK with multiple strikes at various stages of implementation (railways, teachers, lawyers...)

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jun 24 2022 9:16 utc | 149

Gerhard @144

I think Germany is doing a pretty good job defeating itself, along with the rest of Europe. No help from outside needed.

Posted by: aquileia | Jun 24 2022 9:17 utc | 150

Microsoft published a rather interesting report on "Russian propaganda", Russian cyberwar, et al.

Among other things, it’s important to base these assessments on accurate data and not be misled into an unwarranted sense of tranquility from the external perception that the cyberwar in Ukraine has not been as destructive as some feared.

This really begs a question, where did that Microsoft, all so publicly committed to privacy, got that accurate data (or did them not?).

Then they go on with sing wr in Ukraine as a tool to advertise Microsoft and other western "public clouds" to keep and process aboriginal nations crytical data.

Prior to the war, Ukraine had a longstanding Data Protection Law prohibiting government authorities from processing and storing data in the public cloud. This meant that the country’s public-sector digital infrastructure was run locally on servers physically located within the country’s borders. A week before the Russian invasion, the Ukrainian government was running entirely on servers located within government buildings—locations that were vulnerable to missile attacks and artillery bombardment.

Ukraine’s Minister of Digital Transformation, Mykhailo Fedorov, and his colleagues in Parliament recognized the need to address this vulnerability. On February 17, just days before Russian troops invaded, Ukraine’s Parliament took action to amend its data protection law to allow government data to move off existing on-premises servers and into the public cloud. This in effect enabled it to “evacuate” critical government data outside the country and into data centers across Europe. Several tech companies rallied to help. At Microsoft, we witnessed and supported the speed required for this transition. Within 10 weeks, Ukraine’s Ministry of Digital Transformation and more than 90 chief digital transformation officers across the Ukrainian government worked with the company to transfer to the cloud many of the central government’s most important digital operations and data. Microsoft has committed at no charge a total of $107 million of technology services to support this effort, which has reached 20 ministries and more than 100 state agencies and state-owned enterprises. (In total, Microsoft has provided $239 million in financial and technology assistance to support Ukraine, including support for the government, businesses, nonprofits, and humanitarian assistance for refugees.)

Fedorov’s urgency was prophetic. An early target of Russian missile attacks was a Ukrainian government data center. And as discussed further below, the Russian military has targeted the government’s on-premises computer networks with its destructive cyber “wiper” attacks. One reason these kinetic and cyberattacks have had limited operational impact is because digital operations and data have been disbursed into the public cloud. This highlights a critical difference between protecting public-sector data in a time of war instead of peace. Some governments around the world have pursued initiatives in recent years to centralize government digital operations in so-called sovereign data centers that are more specialized, locally controlled, and located within a country’s borders. While there are some factors that make this appealing from a national security perspective in times of peace, the last few months in Ukraine illustrate the very different defense needs that prevail during a war.


  1. Fedorov was "prophetic" to predict the war as early as February 17th. Well, it is easy to predict what you kickstart yourself, isn't it?
  2. The propaganda vehicle to copy all Ukrainian national data to Microsoft cloud was "prophetically" predicted "missile attacks and artillery bombardment", however that prophecy was not fullfilled and instead they had untraceable and almost unproveable "destructive cyber “wiper” attacks". So very prophetic...
  3. It is then just assumed (good citizens do not ask questions) that is was Microsoft public clowd that defeate those cyberattacks, and that Ukraine won't be able to twart those attacks on her own. I can only recall that Microsoft (GitHub) and Amazon (S3) unleashed massive DDoS attack on Amazon competitors (like DHL) and Russian media and Russian gov't sites. That attack was very effective in the first two weeks, but after 4 weeks Russian infrastructure was reconfigured/increased and (from inside Russia at least) that cyberattack is hardly noticeable any more. So i assume Ukraine also could adapt to cyberwar on their own, and that is why Microsoft advertized "missiles and artillery", to misguide readers from the actual events.
  4. i also want to remind about "Internet2" - it is a common point that thewre is a "public perimeter" of any network, and there is internal, secure volume. While DDoS attacks coming from public internet can indeed overwhelm "public gates" it does not necessarily have any effect upon *internal* network. There is no unavoidable translation from inaccessability of public e-government to people and foreign media (goal and effect of any succesfull DDoS attack, like one being run by Microsoft and Amazon against Russia) to paralysis of *internal work* of government (or any other targeted entity).
  5. Now that ALL of Ukro-government data was, on the false pretext of "missile bombardment", donated to Microsoft cloud, we can only guess what use Western governments would make of that data trove.

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 24 2022 9:43 utc | 151

From IntelSlava

🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Russian troops have reached the western outskirts of Lisichansk!!

🇷🇺🇺🇦❗Over 800 servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered near Lisichansk and in the cauldron near Gorsky and Zolote in the last two days (c) TASS

🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡The total losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine killed in 2 days near Lisichansk are about 1000 people. With a standard calculation of 1 to 3, you can add about 2.5-3.5 thousand wounded to these figures.

Judging by the incoming news, within 1-3 days it will be officially announced the complete liberation of three cities at once:
Severodonetsk, Gorsky and Zolotoy.

Lisichansk, apparently, still resists, but already in the morning they report fighting on the outskirts of the Lisichansk refinery and on the western outskirts of the city.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 24 2022 9:49 utc | 152

What is the role of shale as a source of oil and gas resources in the United States?

Talk of oil shale's future makes environmentalists cringe. Shale mining in Estonia is water-intensive and pollutes underground water tables, while burning the rock for power produces loads of carbon dioxide, sulfur, and ash—even more than coal.

It is wise to get shale oil out before sea level rise due to environmental impact on the planet. The fossil fuel lobby is winning the (Ukraine) war in Washington DC.

Posted by: Oui | Jun 24 2022 9:49 utc | 153

(apologies if duplicate)

Graveyard Of Air Force! Ukraine’s 2nd ‘Mad Attack’ To Retake Snake Island Ends In Disaster For UAF — Russia

By Parth Satam - June 23, 2022

The war in Ukraine might spill over into the Black Sea if Ukraine persists with its attempts to retake Snake (Zmeiny) Island.

A second attack on early Monday morning claimed both sides were achieving victory. But with the island still in Russian hands, it implies Kiev’s attack was unsuccessful. The strategically important island allows leverage over the Black Sea in monitoring naval movements and approaches to the city of Odesa.

Ukrainian officials claim the “significant” victory against Russian forces, saying it “aimed strikes with the use of various forces” on the island, causing “significant losses” to the Russian garrison, with a Pantsir surface-to-air (SAM) system and a radar station destroyed.

Satellite images by US-based Maxar Technologies show damage visible to the tower on the island’s southern end and burned vegetation in several locations.

The statement by Natalia Humeniuk, head of the joint coordination center of Ukraine’s South Defense Forces, was short on details and indicated it was unsuccessful, given it went on to promise “follow-up” attacks.

The details were vague, saying it “required silence,” that “enemy losses are being verified” with any further information compromising operation security since the Russians are “continuously listening.”

A successful attack would have jubilant Ukrainians actively giving details of the Russian casualties, equipment losses, and possibly photos of the island back in Ukrainian hands.

Calling it a “mad attack,” the Russian Defence Ministry gave minute details of their resistance, the type of attack they repulsed, and the losses they claimed they inflicted on Ukrainians.

Lt Gen Igor Konashenkov said they destroyed more than 15 Ukrainian UAVs, guided by two TB-2 Bayraktar drones, while also detecting a US Air Force’ Global Hawk’ RQ-4 at high altitudes.

Russia said the Ukrainian UAVs were being provided cover by S-300 SAMs from the towns of Tuzla and Ochakov. Ukrainians are claimed to have used Tochka-U ballistic missiles, Uragan Multiple Rocket Launch Systems (MLRS), and US-made M-777 155 mm howitzers from the Kubansky Island, west of Odessa.

Russian Pantsir, Tor-M2, and Onyx cruise missiles shot down 13 UAVs, four Tochka-U, and 21 Uragan MLRS, adding “not a single Ukrainian missile or bomb reached its target,” with the “failed strike forcing the enemy to abandon the landing” on the island.

Claiming the Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) then targeted Russian oil rigs in the Black Sea after their attack failed, Russia conducted retaliatory strikes with Onyx cruise missiles. These destroyed hangars with TB-2 drones are located at Shkolny military airfield near Odessa, along with two platoons of M-777 and two S-300 at Kubansky mentioned above.

Last week, Ukraine claimed to have sunk the Russian support ship Vasili Beh, which was transporting crew and armaments to the Snake Island, that the British Ministry of Defense (MoD) said was carried out by using Harpoon anti-ship missiles.

This was the second Ukrainian attempt on Snake, with the first being on May 8. According to Russia then, UAF lost three Sukhoi Su-24 ground attack jets; one Su-27 fighter; a Mi-24 helicopter; three Mi-8 loaded with troops, and; three Centaur-class attack boats killing more than 50 Ukrainian troops.

Russia believes this first attempt was to open a supply route for western weapons into the Odesa and Mykolaiv regions, which Moscow’s control of Snake Island prevents.

Importance Of Snake Island

Russia had captured the Snake Island at the beginning of the war, anticipating some form of naval action to take Odesa if the offensives at Mariupol and Donbas failed.

However, one can assume it decided against an amphibious landing to not escalate the war into western Ukraine, which has been nearly untouched. The island is also off the coast of Romania, where the British are deployed on a NATO base.

A Ukrainian Intelligence Directorate (GUR) report also said Snake Island allows Russia to stage a tactical amphibious landing into Odesa. However, such an operation might also alienate the predominantly Russian sympathetic population.

Moreover, as the de-mining operations at Mariupol beach revealed, Ukrainians must have prepared for the contingency and mined the seas off Odesa, along with heavy urban defense within Odesa itself.

“If Russian troops succeed in occupying Snake Island and set up their long-range air-defense systems, they will control the sea, land, and air in the north-west part of the Black Sea and the south of Ukraine,” Ukrainian military expert Oleh Zhdanov had told the BBC. An S-400 missile system also endangers NATO’s southern flank.

Snake Island’s important strategic location allows complete control of the approaches to the port city of Odesa while providing Russia “with strategic air defense and coastal cruise missiles to dominate the north-western Black Sea,” according to a UK Defence Intelligence update on May 11.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2022 10:06 utc | 154

"Doesn't a society want a leadership structure superior to themselves? In intelligence ..' Oriental Voice@46
"Your reasoning is fallacious". bevin #101

Bevin I agree with the points you make. The elitist view of a superior class in poisonous. Everyone in society should have a say, regardless of intelligence or anything else. Our hearts tell us what want and intelligence and efficiency are tools to achieve it. My slogan is "Stupid people are people too!!". And often right. I suggest Britain was at its best when it had an elite professional civil service that dutifully carried out the wishes of a strong parliament.

The greatest evil in society is maldistribution of wealth and power. My proposal is a tax of 99% on billionaires, and an upper house consisting of ordinary people chosen at random to serve for two years, rather like a jury system.

Posted by: Tim | Jun 24 2022 10:15 utc | 155

Let's see if I get this right
- Western Europe has been using Russian oil and gas since the times of Brezhnev (1973).
- to increase capacity, and to avoid Ukraine siphoning off gas, Germany and Russia build a gas pipeline through North Sea waters, Nord Stream 1. (2011)
- After the success of Nord Stream 1, and to increase capacity even more, Germany and Russia agree to build a second pipeline, Nord Stream 2.
- US sanctions on the companies that build the pipeline, until the main contractor, Allseas, retires from the project
- Gazprom's own pipelaying vessel, the Akademik Cherskiy, comes from the Russian Pacific to Germany and is refitted for the task in the North Sea. (february-december 2020)
- harassment of the construction of the pipeline; overflight of military planes; submarines emerging nearby; fishing boats ramming the pipelaying ships.
- US senators send a letter to the mayor of the German port of Sassnitz (pop. 7000), threatening crushing legal and economic sanctions if goods or services are provided to the pipe-laying ships (august 2020)
- Denmark delays construction by delaying building approval of the stretch through Danish waters (april 2017 - january 2021)
- result is the pipeline is ready when Merkel leaves office.
- the new German chancellor, Scholz, states the decision about Nord Stream 2 is "unpolitical", a burocratic matter. (17 december 2021)
- the German chancellor, Scholz, is invited to the White House. Biden states Nord Stream 2 will not be opened if Russia invades Ukraine. (7 february 2022)
- the German chancellor, Scholz, halts approval of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline because of Russian actions in Ukraine (22 february 2022)
- the German minister of economy, Robert Habeck, says Russia is using gas as a weapon against Germany (June 2022)

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 24 2022 10:38 utc | 156

Sociopaths (especially Narcissists) see themselves as innately superior to everyone else, and ascribe this Weltanschaung to society as a whole.

They will always attempt to distribute wealth and power towards themselves.

They prefer social manipulation to do this.

Normal people don't comprehend that such limited characters can exist, so ascribe good faith to their manipulation attempts.

After all, society runs on trust.

Sociopaths love elections - as opposed to the Ancient Greek sortition (lottery) system - because they are innately talented at winning popularity contests.

First in organised party structures and then with the general public.

If they can't be bothered doing this then they become "managers" and "CEOs".

Utopian visions focusing on structural issues are naive as no-one wants to confront the problem of psychopathology affecting 10-15% of the population making such issues moot.

Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 24 2022 10:39 utc | 157

It looks like lot of foreign "volunteers" are surrounded by RF forces in Gorkoje and Zolotoje kettles...What would the demented Joe, BoJo, VD Leyen and Nazi Trudeau is going to say...

Posted by: ostro | Jun 24 2022 10:40 utc | 158

Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine as of 11.00 on June 24, 2022

As a result of the successful offensive actions of the grouping of Russian troops in the Luhansk direction, the settlements of LOSKUTOVKA, PODLESNOYE, MIRNAYA DOLINA, SHCHEBKARYER, VRUBOVKA, NYRKOVO, NIKOLAEVKA, NOVOIVANOVKA, USTINOVKA and RAI-ALEXANDROVKA were liberated in five days.

A grouping of Ukrainian troops has been completely blocked in the area of the settlements of Gorskoye and Zolotoye.

In the next, now "Mountain" cauldron, four battalions are surrounded: the 3rd mechanized battalion of the 24th mechanized Brigade, the 15th mountain assault battalion of the 128th Mountain Assault Brigade, the 42nd motorized infantry battalion of the 57th Motorized Infantry Brigade, the 70th battalion of the 101st Territorial Brigade defense, as well as the brigade artillery group of the 57th Motorized Infantry Brigade, the formation of the Nazis of the "Right Sector" and a detachment of foreign mercenaries.

In total, up to two thousand people are now blocked in the "Gorsky Cauldron": about 1,800 military personnel, 120 Nazis of the "Right Sector", up to 80 foreign mercenaries; as well as more than 40 units of armored combat vehicles and about 80 guns and mortars.

In the last 24 hours alone, 41 servicemen in the area abandoned resistance and voluntarily surrendered.

According to the prisoners, the encircled Ukrainian group is exhausted. The staffing of the units is less than 40%. The management of the units by the higher Ukrainian command has been lost. The supply of weapons, ammunition, fuel and other material means has been completely stopped.

The Russian troops are squeezing the ring of the "Mountain Cauldron", inflicting continuous fire damage on the enemy. During yesterday, half of the settlement of ZOLOTOYE was taken under control.

The enemy is suffering significant losses in other areas as well.

As a result of strikes by high-precision weapons of the Russian Aerospace Forces on three locations of foreign mercenaries in MYKOLAIV, Golitsyno, Mykolaiv region, and OLESHKA, Kharkiv region, more than 200 "soldiers of fortune" and up to 100 Ukrainian nationalists were destroyed.

Cases of desertion and refusal to participate in hostilities take on a massive character in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So, in the area of the settlement of ALEXANDROPOL of the Donetsk People's Republic, more than 30 Ukrainian servicemen of one of the battalions of the 25th Airborne brigade, throwing their personal weapons, voluntarily left their positions.

In order to compensate for the losses in manpower in the Donetsk and Lugansk directions, the Ukrainian command is forced to form separate rifle battalions in each region from untrained, conscripted citizens.

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue a special military operation in Ukraine.

Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery hit the manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 367 districts. Five ammunition depots, rocket and artillery weapons and materiel were destroyed in the PRIVOLYE areas of the Luhansk People's Republic and the city of NIKOLAEV, as well as artillery and mortar units in 62 districts, including an artillery battery of M777 howitzers in the OLESHKA area of the Kharkiv region.

The Bastion coastal missile system struck the launch site of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system near Odessa. The target is destroyed.

More than 620 nationalists, 19 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, as well as 17 special vehicles were destroyed in just a day as a result of air strikes, missile troops and artillery.

▪️ Russian air defense means destroyed two Su-25 aircraft in the districts of Dolgenkoye, Kharkiv region and Vysokopolye, Mykolaiv region during the day.

Five Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down in the air in the areas of POPASNAYA and KAPITANOVO settlements of the Luhansk People's Republic, RECRUITING, DONETSK, Kharkiv region, as well as five Tochka-U tactical missiles in the areas of the settlements of STAKHANOV, LUGANSK and IZYUM.

In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 213 aircraft, 132 helicopters, 1,334 unmanned aerial vehicles, 350 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,769 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 659 multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles, 3002 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 3,835 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

Posted by: noname | Jun 24 2022 10:50 utc | 159

Moscow says EU, NATO gathering countries 'for war' with Russia
Russian foreign minister, on granting Ukraine, Moldova EU candidacy status, recalls Hitler's gathering of a coalition against Soviet Union before World War II

Elena Teslova, Jeyhun Aliyev | 24.06.2022


The EU and NATO are gathering a coalition for war with Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Friday, commenting on the granting of EU candidacy status to Ukraine and Moldova.

Speaking at a news conference in Baku following a meeting with his Azerbaijani counterpart Jeyhun Bayramov, Lavrov said the situation reminds the state of affairs before World War II when Hitler united most of the European countries for a war against the Soviet Union.

"When the Second World War was about to start, Hitler gathered most of the European countries under his banners. Now the EU and NATO are also gathering the same modern coalition for the fight, and by and large, for war with the Russian Federation. We will look at all this very carefully," he said.

Lavrov then announced the second bilateral meeting on the border delimitation between Armenia and Azerbaijan, which will take place in Moscow.

Both sides confirmed their willingness to work on the issue, considering it very significant for the current stage of the settlement, he noted.

"This meeting was agreed (to take place) in Moscow, and we are currently selecting dates that would be convenient for both sides," he said.

Lavrov also reiterated Russia's readiness to contribute to signing a peace treaty between Baku and Yerevan and supported the idea of cooperation in a 3+3 format in the South Caucasus, comprising Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia and their three "neighbors” -- Russia, Türkiye, and Iran.

Asked about granting Ukraine and Moldova a candidate status to the EU, Lavrov said that, unlike NATO, the EU is not a military organization and so membership in this structure does not pose threats to Russia.

But Lavrov also noted that Moscow has been following the steps of the EU and doubts that the bloc's "Russophobic policy" will soon dissipate.

For his part, Bayramov said Baku's priority is normalization and the long-term peace in the region, and this process cannot be "held hostage" to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Minsk Group on Karabakh, which does not currently exist.

The Minsk Group, a body under the OSCE was tasked around three decades ago to solve the Karabakh dispute, but it had achieved no results in nearly three decades, he stressed.

The OSCE Minsk Group, co-chaired by France, Russia, and the US, was formed on March 24, 1992 to find a peaceful solution to the conflict, but to no avail. The co-chairs of the Minsk Group, who visited both countries periodically and met with the authorities, did nothing more than issuing warnings to the parties to abide by the cease-fire each time.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 24 2022 11:46 utc | 160

Page 16 features "Top 5 Russian propaganda articles in the US based on visits (February)" and that is presented as a proof of "pre-planted narrative".
Microsoft: And it’s possible to identify, as shown below, the specific reports and narratives that attain the highest consumption levels...

None of those 5 articles were given a specific date attribute, which should be required to proof they were "pre-planted" whatever that meant.
None of those 5 articles were given hyperlink or any other exact attribution, only a selective quote and blurred out "screenshot".

The expanded use of public data illuminates the
extraordinary contrast in vaccine messaging on a site like
RT. For example, the most widely accessed relevant story
on RT in Russian
suggested that lockdowns and booster
shots prevent COVID-19 transmission, while the most widely
accessed story in English
asserted that vaccinations fail to
curb transmission and are ineffective against new strains.
While democratic societies rely on the public to discern
what is true and what is false, logic makes plain that both
these stories cannot possibly be true at the same time.

Sounds damned, until we recall that in the Orweilian newspeak Microsoft chosen to use instead of English "accessed" means "reposted" and "discussed" by public.

What Microsoft actualyl said was that

* Russian-speaking audience was most attracted - to repost and/or discuss - with pro-lockdowns articles, while
* English-speaking audience was most attracted - to repost and/or discuss - with anti-lockdowns articles.

How should one interprete it is an interesting question, for example it can be interpreted that lockdowns in Russia were too soft and too much ignored (as perceived by Russian-speaking online active strata), while lockdowns in "anglo-saxon world" were on contrary perceived too harsh and too much enforced.

There can be other interpretations of course, but none of them include "Putin's evil machinations" implied. Whatever Putin's plans could be, Microsoft reports on PUBLIC ACTIVITY of reposting and dicussing, whilke using NewSpeak to conceal it and misdirect readers.

For example, this reflects an estimated average American consumption of Russian propaganda 60 million to 80 million page views per month, enough to make the collective placement resulting from Russian cyber influence on par with a major publication like the Wall Street Journal in the United States

Microsoft again compares apples to.. to something they do not specify.
Microsoft compares RETWEETS and DISCUSSIONS of "Russian narratives" to WSJ... what? reads? reposts? somethign else?
Microsoft chosen to conceal it.

Microsoft’s data found that four of the five most widely read internet-based propaganda stories in Canada in this period focused on COVID-related protests in Ottawa. These reflected in part on a propaganda narrative suggesting that mainstream media coverage of these protests was inadequate or biased. The start of this surge preceded the arrival of a large convoy of protestors in trucks in Ottawa on January 28. Protestors then occupied areas around the Parliament building the last week of January and the first week of February, and the protests expanded to the Canadian-US border and disrupted trade on February 8, just after propaganda dissemination reached its peak.

Of course, Microsoft swaps cause and effect. People's growing grievances naturally manifested themselves to pro-active search of information, then later to discussing the information found, then later to direct action influenced by this discussion.
Microsoft advertisement's target audience of course prefers to read chronicles upside down, to be comforted with inversed idea that public protests were caused by their discussions of imaginary grievances "pre-planted by evil overloard Putin himself".

More interestingly, Microsoft covertly changed the language here, from "consumed" and "accessed" they moved to "read".
Which seems to put us against a choice.

1. Microsoft lied. They still measure (by the means of RPI antinarrative engine they described above) what was reposted and discussed, not what was read.
2. Microsoft did monitor private lives of Canadians and does know what they were, privately, reading. Microsoft did not want to admit it, but got a Freudian slip.

Chose your poison.

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 24 2022 11:55 utc | 161

* So previous claims of full UA withdrawal from Gorskoe pocket, or its full capture, were exaggerated. 2k people, remnants of 4+ reduced batallions (from various brigades) in there per RF, citing POW testimony. They still have artillery/mlrs, and as long as that's the case, they are in for a rough ride.

* almost 5k UA casualties (incl. 1k kia, 800 pow) in this recent greater Lisichansk area action

* checked up on EU gas situation. storage levels are actually perfectly normal, compared to historical norms. Prices, however, are not. Announcements of an emergency in Germany are entirely a function of fear of full future cut-off in retaliation for their own fabulously idiotic moves (eg refusal to provide routine maintenance service to German made compressor stations supplying Germany itself, or EU having Lithuania blockade Kaliningrad, or repeatedly supplying UA with long range weapons, with the unbroken pattern that each time there immediately used for terror type attack on civ & non mil targets)

Posted by: ptb | Jun 24 2022 12:05 utc | 162

Some major battlefield changes overnight, new MOD report should be interesting sounds like Lugansk has been cleared big retreat from Lisichansk. Many many dead Ukrainians, sad.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 24 2022 12:10 utc | 163

That must be either outright false or a horribly wrong translation of whatever Lavrov intended to say.

In addition it's doubtful if the publishers understand what they're saying (or rather: what they're making Lavrov say) or they would have avoided doing so.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 12:13 utc | 164

To all who red / responded to my #53 about Germany's imperialism in open thread 94.
There are some missunderstandings.

Germany and imperialism is a very special story. Germany came late, long after the Spain, Portugese, Dutch, British or French. Before 1870 and the Bismarck unifications it was not even a nation. But between 1870 and 1914, maybe even 1933 (when the Nazis startet to murder or expel a big part of its elites), Germany became the international hotspot in science, technical developments, arts and architecture. It wanted to be an imperialist nation also, but, as we know, it failed twice.

After WW2, after the US cancelled Morgenthau and sent Marshall, Germany became an american vassal, yes. But this is only the one half of the story. The other half is the awesome offer, the US gave to the defeated country: Be part of our Dollar imperialism, make your DM an International Leitwährung, sell your cars all over the world, where we will open the markets also for you, make the Euro an instrument of control over the whole of Europe.

Thus, not only did Germany become an imperialist nation as a "junior partner" of the USA, it finally dwarfed two of the countries that defeated Germany twice: France and Great Britain. Great Britain has had enough and brexit, the French are still dreaming. On Russia they are working. Over seven decades Germany developed and finally found the imperialistic power, it has dreamed of, but always in the slipstream of the US terror machine.

Germany became an american vassal, yes. But there is no "Oligarchs", "Zionists" ore "Deep State" telling the german government what to do. This is ridiculous. It is ridicolous, because there is no need for it. IT IS WORSE: Scholz and his fellow morons from which party ever are absolutely convinced there is no alternative to fighting Russia. Just take a look at all these Führers or CEOs of Siemens, EON or BASF: RUSSIA IS THEIR ENEMY, TOO. Germany is a souvereign nation (besides some special points concerning US troops, Ramstein etc), and until today it defines its souvereignity beeing aside the USA. There is no other Germany than this creature of the US. If now Big Brother claims tribut from Germany until self-destruction, there is no discussion about the aims of this war. And no discussion means no discussion.

Of course there is a certain contradiction in this national identity, which becomes evident now. The MSM slowly start do discuss a new world order, but this discussion does not criticize the assalt against Russia, no! On the contrary, they want a "Europe" ( = Germany), that no longer relies on the US "protection" (= war & terror machine) against "Russia" (= the whole world inkl. China). That is how Germany wants to achieve "full sovereignity": Being the leader of an imperialistic bloc, that is able to defeat Russia and China ALONE.

Posted by: njet | Jun 24 2022 12:26 utc | 165

Being the leader of an imperialistic bloc, that is able to defeat Russia and China ALONE.

Posted by: njet | Jun 24 2022 12:26 utc | 165

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sure, right, and Spain will retake Cuba and Philippines 😂😂😂

(Which are much smaller undertakings and still just as impossible)

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 24 2022 12:49 utc | 166

Greens are toast. Their electorate is predominantly urban and bourgeois - the very people who depend on energy supplies and food options in urban settings. Habeck has to convince Germans there is a shortage of fixed price gas when he has Nordstream I and Nordstream II. No other country has two gas pipelines of fixed price gas under Take-or-Pay Contracts to 2032.

Even if Germany does not take the gas it is liable for contract payment.

If they block Urals Crude they need to reconfigure all Northern European refineries which I am assured takes 6 years. No company is going to spend investment funds with Green Lunatics on a Fossil Fuel Jihad.

Elon Musk sees nothing but Cash Burn in his Brandenburg factory and must be overjoyed the Berlin Regime is carrying €1 billion in debt for it.

The Fantasy is at an end. Everything Germany produces for export can be transferred to China or Russia just as Mercedes transferred bus production to Turkey and Continental moved tyre production to Romania.

Two By-Elections in England yesterday (most countries do not understand Bye-Elections or their significance) but yesterday was an historical record with a 30.000 majority overturned in a 30% swing against Johnson. He is hiding in Rwanda but has a general strike in effect in UK with rail, post, teachers, doctors, airports all heading for strike action because of cost of living.

The wheels are coming off the wagon. I heard iEarlGrey quote a Daily Express survey (more right wing lunatic paper is hard to find) that 78% Britons want to emigrate to Russia !!!!

Having lived through 27% inflation in the past and rota power cuts and instability I really had no idea politicians would work so hard to bring such things back. They are most incompetent at the very thing politicians are supposed to be good at - reading people. That shows they are puppets of oligarchy.

We are all going to have to think about a New Future and hope we get a say in how it develops because the Clowns are going to be ejected from the stage.

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 24 2022 12:49 utc | 167

To be clear I was commenting on this:

'"When the Second World War was about to start, Hitler gathered most of the European countries under his banners. Now the EU and NATO are also gathering the same modern coalition for the fight, and by and large, for war with the Russian Federation. We will look at all this very carefully," he said.'
Hitler's Nazi Germany didn't "gather" anything, neither before nor after the start of WWII, and the invasions and occupations of WWII can not be described as any kind of coalition. The claimed quote makes Lavrov sound extremely wrong, evil, and insane, in multiple ways; hence my disbelief.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 12:56 utc | 168

"The European wars of the 19th and 20th centuries were not German imperialism.

I'm with Bevin on this one !
The Napoleonic Wars were French Imperialism.
The Congress of Vienna gave Europe 40 years of relative peace until Prussia started its expansion.

The Flottenverein was pure German Expansionism.

Franco-Prussian War was a Protestant Prussia dominating Catholic Southern Germany aligned with France.

WW1 was the re-match for the Franco-Prussian Trap this time with Russian and British Empires on board and Germany fearful of Russian economic growth allied to France rapid recovery after 1871. Germany had funded itself as an industrial power on French reparations in Gold - and bankrupted itself by not having a Bond Market to fund 1914-18 War.

Germany was the world's No1 Deadbeat Debtor throughout first half of 20th Century rescued after 1952 London Conference by a 50% haircut on debts owed and a further 50% in 1990. - plus a guarantee of trade surpluses to facilitate repayment of Marshall Aid.

Read up on what Allies gave West Germany after 1952 - the details will stun you as to the real cause of the Wirtschaftswunder

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 24 2022 12:57 utc | 169

You look at the history of the leaders/rulers of Russian, their families/acquaintance and where they originated from. You will find that almost all have no Rus-Slav bloodlines. Early rulers are of German "monarchs" and the latter most families have some or almost all Ukrainian Jew backgrounds.
Stalins' righthand man at the time was Lazar Kaganovich, one has to wonder if any relation of the Kagan/Nuland group. (ovich meaning.. son of) Interesting man. Lazar had a big influence on Stalin.
*Another poster from a different site mentioned this which I give credit to.

Posted by: Heavymetal101 | Jun 24 2022 13:21 utc | 170

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 24 2022 8:47 utc | 145

BrOSINT - is a term for people use open source intelligence very selectively to support their narratives and ignores, dismisses, pooh-poohs or tries to debunk any information that contradicts their narrative.

These people totally trust anything coming from one side and assume that anything from the other side is false

These people may be just naïve or may have darker motives (trolls)

These people are usually male - hence Bros

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 24 2022 13:31 utc | 171

Posted by: watcher | Jun 24 2022 4:01 utc | 124

(that's OT, i guess...)

There are no more figures published by the EU, see the quote from the newspaper "Die Zeit" [1]:

"The EU Commission, which is responsible for both the EU budget and compliance with the rule of law in the EU, did not want to comment on the figures. The Brussels-based authority has not published the balances for some time because it fears that the figures could be politically instrumentalized - for example, by EU opponents in the net contributor countries." (per Deepl)

The latest figures are from 2020 (for instance, gross amount, see [2]), for Germany I have found some for 2021, for example in the magazine "Der Spiegel":

"This year, Germany is expected to pay a record amount of around 38 billion euros into the EU budget. This was announced by the German government in response to a question from FDP member of parliament Gerald Ullrich. This amount is almost 20 percent higher than in the previous year: in 2020, Germany had paid in just under 32 billion. First the "world" had reported on it.

However, this is a gross amount. How high the net payments will be, after deduction of the money that Germany receives from the EU, is not clear from the answer of the Federal Government. According to the letter from the Ministry of Finance, it will only be possible to provide information on this in the next budget year." (per Deepl)

But to conclude that with less economic output there is also less to distribute would be too short-sighted. The EU Commission sets the budget and the countries' share:

"The revenue ceilings are defined in the Own Resources Decision, the legal text that sets the conditions to fund the EU budget. The own resources ceilings are expressed as a percentage of the EU's estimated Gross National Income (GNI) – the sum of all the Member States' GNI – because the nominal amount varies annually according to the evolution of the EU GNI.

There are two types of revenue ceilings:

Own resources ceiling to cover the annual appropriations for commitments – 1.46% of EU GNI for the period 2021-2027 (up from 1.29% in 2014-2020);
Own resources ceiling to cover annual appropriations for payments – 1.40% of EU GNI for the period 2021-2027 (up from 1.23% in 2014-2020).

The difference ("margin") between the own resources ceiling for payments and the long-term budget ceiling for payments functions as a guarantee for the Union to cover all of its financial obligations and contingent liabilities under any circumstance, even in case of negative economic development. This margin is called the headroom of the EU budget.

Under the latest Own Resources Decision, the own resources ceilings are being increased by 0.6 percentage points on an exceptional and temporary basis. This will guarantee an enlarged headroom, and will allow the EU to borrow on the markets to finance NextGenerationEU, the recovery instrument for Europe." [4]

So the EU can currently claim up to 2% of the EU GNI. Thats the maximum amounts of own resources that the Union can collect from Member States. In 2017 "the rate of call of GNI was 0.5162548 %" [5]. Unfortunately, I could not find the call rate for 2021.

The EU can therefore still counteract declining economic performance, it sets its own budget and has room for maneuver.
Finally, apart from the absolute values of net recipients, with Poland in the lead, the per capita values are much more interesting. Here, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia are at the top (along with Luxembourg and Croatia) [6, green field].

[5] (see "GNI-based own resources")

Posted by: SW (also Berlin) | Jun 24 2022 13:32 utc | 172

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 12:56 utc | 168

On May 22, 1939, Italy and Germany agree to a military and political alliance, giving birth formally to the Axis powers, which will ultimately include Japan.

Pact of Steel



US Neutrality

Polish Pact

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 24 2022 13:32 utc | 173

But there is no "Oligarchs", "Zionists" ore "Deep State" telling the german government what to do.

You may not know them but THEY do exist - although I believe German industrialists are opposed to this policy - there are Interessengruppen in Germany linked to US and "diverse circles" around Atlantik Brucke that are string-pullers.

Scholz is WEAK. This would never have happened with Schmidt, Kohl or Schroeder.

Kohl's brother KIA. Ostfront; Schmidt Ostfrontsoldat; Schroeder - Vater starb an der Ostfront.

Merkel - Grossvater Polizist in Berlin; Scholz - Grossvater bei der Deutschen Reichsbahn

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 24 2022 13:36 utc | 174

Game Over?

🇺🇲🇺🇦⚡️Russia has an "overwhelming" advantage in the war in Ukraine - Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis on Fox News

“There is no rational reason to hope that the war can turn around, because Russia is methodically moving forward and destroying the Ukrainian armed forces in the Donbas, not just seizing territory, but destroying their ability to defend the country anywhere else. And even the total sum of all the weapons that we promised to provide much less - it is hardly a tenth of what would be the minimum necessary. And if you look only at these two things, then there is no rational path to victory for Ukraine." - Davis said in one of the most popular programs "Jesse Watters Primetime"

In the West, the realization is coming that all attempts to help Ukraine are simply irrational and cannot lead to a turning point at the front.

Posted by: Barofsky | Jun 24 2022 13:38 utc | 175

Posted by: Heavymetal101 | Jun 24 2022 13:21 utc | 170

Did you expect the USSR, a reversal from the monarchist Russian Empire, to be ruled ONLY by great-russians, when that was a big part of the previous problem, to begin with?

"Yes we will stop with the "only greatrussians have full rights" thing, but only they will be leaders, you know, otherwise commenters on the internet, which hasn't been invented yet, will say that this wasn't russian enough" "...Excuse me? Comrade Mr. Bullshit? Wasn't half the point to bring other peoples of the russian empire to the same level, or as close as possible? The hell are you smoking?"

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 24 2022 13:39 utc | 176

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 24 2022 12:49 utc | 167

"The wheels are coming off the wagon. I heard iEarlGrey quote a Daily Express survey (more right wing lunatic paper is hard to find) that 78% Britons want to emigrate to Russia !!!!"

If only!

Posted by: Barofsky | Jun 24 2022 13:46 utc | 177

@passerby, 156

You pretty much nailed it. That’s a perfect example of Washington-centric imperial propaganda. Weaponize something and then say the other side is using it as a weapon. I wonder why it works so well. I was big on Obama in ‘08 (I was 27 and kinda drunk) but my eyes were opened quite quickly, as soon as he bailed out banks and let everyone hang, which was pretty much immediately. I woke the fuck up (even if I was still kinda drunk at the time). I wonder if the reason the war hawk parties are still in power here is because literally everyone is afraid of being called a Putin apologist, so they all just mimic the party line, even though none of them believe it for a second. Kurt Vonnegut pointed out pretty well that we are what we pretend to be. Are they all pretending to be Good Americans? If so, what does it take to get people to say what they actually think regardless of the consequences?

Posted by: Caveman | Jun 24 2022 13:51 utc | 178

Let us not forget the Greens!

Posted by: Otter | Jun 23 2022 22:58 utc | 100

Ah, the greens . A party where a minimum of a least 10 % of the members . Were assorted police spies and undercover agents.

Question : How could tell the difference between a police spy and a real greeny? Answer : Just look observe them carefully. If they are always busy chatting up the young female attendees. That was a sign they were bored spies. Looking for something else to pass the long lonely cold winter Euro nights................

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 24 2022 13:58 utc | 179

Paul Greenwood:
A limitation to collusion between the fascist and nazi governments of Italy and Germany is not the given context nor the comparison made. It does not fit the meaning of the purported quote at all.

It could be that Lavrov made some rare mistake but I will still assume that it's all a terribly bad translation, perhaps from Russian to Turkish to English. I do not believe Lavrov would have intended to say what the translation says and as such it shouldn't pass by entirely unnoticed and unchallenged.

Maybe the MSM is already swarming around that quote and blasting it out as proof of Russian "insanity", or will do so later? I don't know since I don't spend much time (often none at all) checking the MSM.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 14:04 utc | 180

'"When the Second World War was about to start, Hitler gathered most of the European countries under his banners. Now the EU and NATO are also gathering the same modern coalition for the fight, and by and large, for war with the Russian Federation. We will look at all this very carefully," he said.'
Hitler's Nazi Germany didn't "gather" anything, neither before nor after the start of WWII, and the invasions and occupations of WWII can not be described as any kind of coalition. The claimed quote makes Lavrov sound extremely wrong, evil, and insane, in multiple ways; hence my disbelief.

Well, from the russian perspective its true. He gathered Austria, parts of the czech republic, Italy and Hungary. Then he conquered France, Czech republic, Poland. Only then he attacked Russia.

From a russian perspective it doesnt look very different from Napoleons coalition. All the nations that participated in the napoleonic war on russia, were also conquered before they were integrated in the army that marched on moscow.

Posted by: orgel | Jun 24 2022 14:08 utc | 181


From IntelSlava

🇺🇦⚡A draft law has been submitted to the Verkhovna Rada proposing to draft disabled people "with their consent" into the army. Also, once again it is proposed to tighten the ban on leaving the territory of Ukraine for men from 18 to 60 years old.

The problems of the "war to the last Ukrainian" is that the number of Ukrainians is finite, so when the motivated ones began to run out, all that remains is to drive deviationists and disabled people to the slaughterhouse.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 24 2022 14:10 utc | 182

Sunny Runny Burger I am going to disagree with you. Lavrov has access to Foreign Ministry files and reports from Ivan Maisky.

Troops fighting with Wehrmacht included Hungarians, Italians, Romanians and they were Allies. Look how many Italian soldiers fought on the Ostfront.

Lavrov is correct. Germany could not have invaded USSR with 3 million men drawn from Germany alone. There is amazing similarity with 1941.

Czechoslovakia had a defensive fortification Germany could not have breached and Europe’s largest armaments works at Skoda without which Hitler was in trouble - once UK and France invalidated Czech-USSR Mutual Defence Treaty by French refusal to mobilise the whole focus of the UK and France was to direct Hitler towards USSR

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 24 2022 14:12 utc | 183

@Oriental Voice #46
Sorry, but sheer intelligence has never been the primary hallmark of a good leader.
Nor am I particularly inspired by the idea that so-called "average" people are going to pick "better" representatives, who in turn will pick the "best" among them, and so on and so forth.
The process of choosing is politics - and politics works at every level.

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 24 2022 14:15 utc | 184

The draft law on the ban on the departure of men from Ukraine, submitted to the Verkhovna Rada, allows the conscription of people with disabilities for military service with their consent

Posted by: Down South | Jun 24 2022 14:17 utc | 185

@watcher #124
Germany doesn't directly fund anyone - but it does underwrite a significant part of the stability of the euro.
The ECB is the one doing the funding.
But even the direct flows are misleading; Germany derives considerable benefit from knowing that its inter-EU customers will always be able to pay...

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 24 2022 14:18 utc | 186

❗️ In Ukraine, people with disabilities can begin to be conscripted into military service with their consent - the bill

Posted by: Down South | Jun 24 2022 14:21 utc | 187

An unmentionable factor here is the small low-density population involved.

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 23 2022 23:06 utc | 102

Way back in the 1990's small German farm hamlets were in decline due to younger members moving to the big cities .

Now with the large onset summer/winter green tourist season. Plus the retiring baby boomers moving back to the countryside

Given the newly emerging self created pension destroying stagflation energy crisis.

Those retiring baby boomers willing to move to W.............would be growing longer by the day.

In other news Roe Vrs Wade was just overturned by SCOTUS. Those female swing voters will be very angry on super Tuesday........

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 24 2022 14:24 utc | 188

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 24 2022 12:49 utc | 166

Yes, it’s a joke, but do not beat the messenger.

Take e.g. Klingbeil, SPD strategist: „We have to accept war as a new normal in foreign politics“.

Posted by: njet | Jun 24 2022 14:30 utc | 189

It is wise to get shale oil out before sea level rise due to environmental impact on the planet. The fossil fuel lobby is winning the (Ukraine) war in Washington DC.

Posted by: Oui | Jun 24 2022 9:49 utc | 153

"China, Brazil, and Russia have sizeable oil shale reserves, and small industries too, but the bonanza is in the U.S., which boasts a whopping 70 percent of the world's reserves. So vast, in fact, is oil shale's potential in the U.S. that Jack Gerard, CEO of the American Petroleum Institute, said in a speech in Washington, D.C. in January that in the western U.S. alone the volume of oil shale is estimated at 800 billion barrels—three times the proven crude reserves of Saudi Arabia. At current prices this much shale oil would be worth a staggering $65 trillion."

On paper it sure looks good but the Reality in the process details and costs involved would change that super optimistic impression those numbers suggest. Shale is the bottom of the barrel resource. Exploiting it IS LIKE Roulette. The players , no matter how good, will lose more than profit, as shale geology has a stronger probabilistic component than conventional oil/gas or coal production.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 24 2022 14:39 utc | 190

Hitler's Nazi Germany didn't "gather" anything, neither before nor after the start of WWII, and the invasions and occupations of WWII can not be described as any kind of coalition. The claimed quote makes Lavrov sound extremely wrong, evil, and insane, in multiple ways; hence my disbelief.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 12:56 utc | 168

Today's independent countries which at the time of WWII were either active (participated in attack on USSR) or passive allies of Germany: Norway, Finland, Spain, Austria, Slovakia, Croatia, Slovenia, Albania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy. One might also add Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia.

Perhaps not most of Europe but quite enough.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 24 2022 14:40 utc | 191

Posted by: Powerandpeople | Jun 23 2022 19:57 utc | 54

Thanks for that link. A little gem out there for sure!

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 24 2022 14:40 utc | 192

Invest in your health, invest in learning useful skills. At some point money in the west wont be worth the paper it’s printed on. Most of us, who aint rich and insulated from inflation, will face hard times, but, verily my friends, is there anything more glorious than a slave revolt?

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jun 24 2022 4:56 utc | 126

It may be thought this is OT, Robert, but it isn't. This is about Ukraine, and we are all Ukrainians, to coin a phrase. Thank you.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 24 2022 14:41 utc | 193

@Tigger #147
What myth are you desiring to debunk?

Reserves are a corporate accounting notation. They go up and down, for example, as prices for the underlying resource change.

Here is a diagram showing how reserve levels from 2019 changed to 2020 - the underlying details

In general for a new discovery, you have:
1) amount of resource discovered. This changes as development occurs - can be both up or down, unsurprising since initial discovery can only be an estimate.
2) amount of discovered resource that is considered recoverable. This also goes up or down - down mostly by exploration filling in data vs. initial discovery estimates, up as technology improves (shale is an example).
3) amount of proven reserves. This is the amount of resource which has been literally verified, but it also goes up or down because said resource has cost to extract; if the price of the resource falls, then some amount of proven reserves is going to be uneconomic to extract and is thus removed from reserves.
4) Actual production.

As we are almost certainly in a commodity supercycle, the reserves on all known resources are going to be going up so long as prices keep going up.

However, one big difference this time around is that the amount of capital expenditure being invested by the fossil fuel industry is not matching price increases - as said capex did in past commodity upticks. Harris Kupperman says it is due to COVID + ESG, others argue just one or the other, but the fact remains that no capex = no proving out = lower production in the future = higher prices, all things considered.

I posted this graph in May oil industry capex vs. oil prices on IMGUR

I have been following the oil price/capex story for 10 months now - long before inflation became a mainstream concern.

If you aren't scared by this graph, you aren't understanding it.

And even worse, the story is largely the same of any other extractive industry. That's the main reason I am ever more certain we are in a commodity supercycle.

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 24 2022 14:44 utc | 194

Strong ruble and lack of vessels seen hampering Russia wheat exports

That sanctions ban on insuring Russian vessels and outright ban on many Russian exports - nice own goal.

Ruble is rubble...not.
It will be interesting to see if the CBR allows the ruble to significantly strengthen to offset inflation, or cuts rates even more (in diametric opposition to the West) to keep the ruble low.

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 24 2022 14:47 utc | 195

Today's independent countries which at the time of WWII were either active (participated in attack on USSR) or passive allies of Germany: Norway, Finland, Spain, Austria, Slovakia, Croatia, Slovenia, Albania, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy. One might also add Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 24 2022 14:40 utc | 191

I'd add US in the "shadowy active" supporter group.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 24 2022 14:49 utc | 196

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 24 2022 13:39 utc | 176

there seem to be some White Russians on this blog, I didn't realize they still existed in some form. Also at the Saker.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 24 2022 14:50 utc | 197

Invest in your health, invest in learning useful skills. At some point money in the west wont be worth the paper it’s printed on. Most of us, who aint rich and insulated from inflation, will face hard times, but, verily my friends, is there anything more glorious than a slave revolt?

Posted by: Robert Macaire | Jun 24 2022 4:56 utc | 126

Slava Spartakus!

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 24 2022 14:52 utc | 198

Posted by: Tigger | Jun 24 2022 9:05 utc | 147

To understand why it was so bad for the companies one must understand geology and petroleum engineering basics. MOA is not the place for this and in the format of the comments. Shale is where Mother Nature wins 95% of the time, gambler eats the dust.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 24 2022 14:58 utc | 199

At Sunny Runny Burger:

Hitler's Nazi Germany didn't "gather" anything, neither before nor after the start of WWII, and the invasions and occupations of WWII can not be described as any kind of coalition. The claimed quote makes Lavrov sound extremely wrong, evil, and insane, in multiple ways; hence my disbelief.

Wikipedia says "World War II is generally considered to have begun on 1 September 1939, when Nazi Germany, under Adolf Hitler, invaded Poland. ... On 22 June 1941, Germany led the European Axis powers in an invasion of the Soviet Union"...

About the Axis powers it says: "The first step was the protocol signed by Germany and Italy in October 1936, ... The following November saw the ratification of the Anti-Comintern Pact, an anti-communist treaty between Germany and Japan; Italy joined the Pact in 1937, followed by Hungary and Spain in 1939."

As Lavrov says, "most of the European countries" might be a bit stark exageration, and maybe Italy invading France with donkeys (I heard) wasn't that much of a help, but at least this time around Hungary might stand a bit more to the side.

Overall I don't trust Wikipedia much, but still it (and Lavrov) more than I trust Sunny Runny Burger.

Posted by: C | Jun 24 2022 14:59 utc | 200

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