Scott Ritter is asked by Garland Nixon to address the issue of how it might end.
It is a helpful recap of many elements that background how we are where we are.
This entire utoob session has been linked before but I repeat it as it has so many informative components for those who might have missed it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2022 6:31 utc | 103

Posted by: Albert | Jun 22 2022 6:22 utc | 105
hey you finally got something right! the US invaded Iraq. being realistic enough to know it can’t beat Russia in a conventional war, as it did Iraq, it instead uses Ukraine as a proxy, and uses shills like you to justify it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 6:49 utc | 105

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2022 6:31 utc | 106
——————————————————–
Thanks for the link.
Russia will never talk with the US about the Ukraine’s future. Neither the US, nor the Ukraine regime, France, Germany can be trusted. The Nazi Germany, together with wanted to destroy Russia then, and today the so-called West is out to destroy Russia. The West obsession had never changed. No, Russia is not going to negotiate with the US/EU. It is the West’s war with Russia, so only unconditional surrender is on the table.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 7:12 utc | 107

ostro @ 110
And if west does not surrender unconditionally, Russia will occupy them?
Fart in their general direction? Or what exactly?
I find it surreal that so many commenters are spouting their dreams, or preferred outcomes as certainties. Speculate all you wish, it can be entertaining and even thought provoking, but annoucing them as the only possible outcome I find tiresome.

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 22 2022 7:51 utc | 109

Anyone else think that Germany might be in play?
Posted by: Blotto Von Bismark | Jun 22 2022 7:05 utc | 109
I’d say all of Europe is “in play”, all of it. Plagues, famines, and wars tend to have big consequences. Climate change. Yeah, big consequences. Resource wars.
And all of the West at least. That appears to be the current direction. I think business as usual is over.
Boy, they just cannot get over their hatreds of each other, those Europeans.
Also, “Gee, who could have predicted this?”

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 22 2022 8:07 utc | 111

pretzelattack @ 113
‘unconditional surrender’ was the term used by @ostro earlier.
I understood the he(?) did not mean surrendering any ‘delusion’ but military surrender.
He can of course clarify, if I misunderstood.

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 22 2022 8:11 utc | 113

Re K | Jun 21 2022 11:34 utc | 303 othger thread wehi disingenuously claimed:
“So I watched the link and it was about Palestine not Russia. it was also a lot about Oil, why is everything always about oil?
His complaint about Russia not intervening in Syria against Israel is something I’ve heard a lot of over the past years. it makes me wonder “what do people expect of Russia when we don’t expect or demand that our own rotten countries do the same? Russia isn’t God or the Christmas Fairy.
Either you didn’t listen to Abdel Bari Atwan all the way through or you are lying. Bari spoke about Palestine Lebanon AND Syria, when he spoke about Syria he pointed out that one of the recent Israeli targets was close up to a Russian military base where Russia has installed an s 400 anti aircraft and anti missile system.
That system would have detected the attack long before it reached syria border, the russians would have seen it heading in their general direction yet they didn’t take it down. Why not? I would say because the Russians already knew they weren’t the target, they had been told about it beforehand.
The Russians knew and did nothing. “Oh poor wee Russia” whines K Fuck off I can remember just 3 years ago when this blog was full of the likes of K boasting how strong Russia is how even the amerikans much less the occupiers of Palestine were too scared to take ’em on.
Syria wasn’t asking for any freebie, all Syrians want is a little reciprocity.
You’ll do realise it would only take one act of Russia defending Syria with their S400 to stop Israel from this don’t you? One takedown and that would be it Russia and Syria have the law on their side and no one would support a war over that but Russia won’t do it because the simple truth is just like when the USS Liberty was attacked by the same gang of murderers, when Israel murdered two Russian pilots in 2020 by shooting down their planes, Russia did nothing because like amerika their government operates at the behest of rich zionists.
Syria helps those same creeps by preventing the qatar – europe gas pipeline which would have to pass through Syria and which was the main reason amerika & co kicked off the attempted insurrection, yet russia don’t lift a finger to help. As Bari says in his interview “I’m not talking about Arab leaders, they’re owned, but ordinary Arab people say Russia is just as bad as the rest of them, they come in here take what they want and won’t lift a finger to help.”
That’s a fact. I have been pointing that reality out since russia signed a treaty with Turkey. When I and very few others in here pointed out that Syria was left with most of its resources gutted, other MoA posters claimed that the treaty had a clause for sorting that the following October, well the fourth October is coming up long past the one promised and zero, zilch, nada, NOTHING has been done by Russia to “sort it out”. Even though as Bari also pointed out, up until now, every arab nation has refused to increase drilling oil to help the amerikans, so far they have kept their oil in the ground which aids Russia. Still Russia who has benefited hugely from that doesn’t do the one thing that could provide some relief to the starving people of Syria. Sanctions keep them poor and hungry and to boot, they also have to worry if a cruise missile or zionist bombload is going to flatten their homes. Death is instantaneous but the caring and sharing MoA-ites don’t give a fuck, they’re distracted & entertained by whitefella dick waving in Ukraine.
A few lame and deceitful words of deflection from some other poster and then you can all get back to yer frankly pornographic, voyeur study of war up close enough to see but not so close it could hurt ya.
All it ever takes is one or two of these lame deflections and like a mob of sheep you all go back to yer convenient distractions. My grandfather used to rant about the stay behind types who followed wars by sticking pins in wall maps & who then pronounced loudly (and mostly incorrectly) about ‘what is really happening’. I can see what he was on about now. The wall maps have gone, they have been replaced by digital images but the twisted motives remain.
Treating a war where hundreds of humans a day die, like a goddamn football match, cheering for your team, that isn’t edgy or anything other than awfully sick.
The Russian government has shown itself to be just as riven with cheats and liars as every other imperialist nation state; no one wants to acknowledge it lest they have no one left to cheer for.
Same as it ever was.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 22 2022 8:20 utc | 115

pretzelattack @119
‘military concessions’ sounds quite different than ‘unconditional surrender’.
Some of those states bordering Russia remember the fun they had last time Russia was their overlord. They probably have something to say, regardless of NATO or Russia.

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 22 2022 8:34 utc | 117

They have their foot so far into their mouth, it must be hanging out of their A$$

Posted by: Kaiama | Jun 22 2022 8:57 utc | 119

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 22 2022 8:34 utc | 120
and some of them still have substantial nazi presence in their own countries. Russia isn’t the USSR any more, and those states you are talking about are letting themselves be used as proxies for the US. I have no doubt Russia operates out of self interest, and is using Syria for example for its own ends, but it is not the aggressor here. whether you call it military concessions or unconditional surrender, it’s the same thing in the real world. Russia isn’t attacking the western alliance, the western alliance is attacking russia, and the framework of former eastern bloc countries, some like Ukraine run by the allies of the nazis who killed 20 million USSR citizens, has to be dismantled in some fashion. NATO needs to dissolve anyway, it’s just a front to prop up the US pretensions to being a hyperpower.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 9:05 utc | 121

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 22 2022 8:20 utc | 118
I listened to the entire interview. Unlike K, I did not perceive him as “whining”, just presenting his case in a passionate manner. I also didn’t hear him say anything about Russia acting like an imperialist nation. Russia no doubt pursues its own interests, and is balancing out its self interest in some kind of alliance with Israel and that involved in its alliance with Syria, and doing so ruthlessly. Russia, unlike the US and NATO, however, has largely lived up to agreements. which means that, while the Russian government may well be filled with cheats and liars, those cheats and liars are not in control of policy like they are in the west. what is the actual substance of the agreement between Russia and Syria? Russia takes a very legalistic approach to these matters. What does Assad or the Syrian government say about the failure to protect Syria from Israeli attacks? Right now, Russia’s main focus is protecting itself from the US and the poodles–it’s a very large game, the gameboard is the world, and it will no doubt sacrifice the interests of allies if it needs to.
It’s clear to me that the main threat to world peace is US foreign policy, not Russia, not China. and that whole policy is based on imperialism and capitalism. I don’t see a similar danger from Russia and China.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 9:16 utc | 123

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 9:05 utc | 124
——————————————————-
The majority in the “West” don’t understand/fathom Russia and Russians. Even that BBC “reporter” who interviewed Lavrov, who said he had been living in Russia for 30 years. Well, that guy wasn’t living in Russia for 30 years, but living in his internal, Russo-hate bubble. I know f few other such “reporters” from few Eastern European countries, who claim that they live/lived in Russia for 20+ years, but they cannot get out of the Russo-hate bubble.
Russia was Syria’s friend even in the 1960s, at that time, the country was called the USSR, but even after the end of the USSR, Russia is still the friend. It is not like the US being a “friend” of some country.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 9:20 utc | 125

Biden will ask Congress on Wednesday to suspend the federal gas tax until September as Americans across the country grapple with soaring prices as the pump. Biden will also call on states, oil companies and retailers to pause gas taxes.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-congress-gas-tax-holiday-3-months
Well, one can see that the ‘unconditional surrender’ of the US/EU is coming on the horizon. It won’t be declared as such, but is happening…

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 9:32 utc | 127

William Gruff (42).
William forgive my ignorance, but I’m under the impression but “…demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine…”.as you repeated in your comment, doesn’t that entail capturing Kiev, boots on the ground going from building to building, door to door, so to speak, which is if successful, however short a period when complete a temporary form of occupation.
Kiev has a population of plus three million, I’ll be rather surprised if Putin decides to send his troops into Kiev to try and clear out the undesirables, in reality the troops on the ground would more than likely get bogged down and find themselves in a protracted and costly encounter, and that’s jut with the Ukrainian forces, one doesn’t fully know who the civilian population would react to the Russian forces filtering through the city building by building if necessary.
Then there’s Nato and the EU, I’m sure they’d put their differences aside to vehemently defend the capital via more weapons and logistically Kiev in a bit closer to West than the Donbas. No I’m of the opinion that it would be very costly to put Russian boots on the ground in Kiev, better to carry out air strikes on government facilities in the city if necessary.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 22 2022 9:37 utc | 129

Posted by: watcher | Jun 22 2022 9:29 utc | 129
the US has never cared about the hearts and minds of the people in the countries it invades. so it never adopted that approach, it just gave lip service to it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 9:49 utc | 131

There are only 2 ways to take kiev: kill/surrender all soldiers or kill/remove the leadership.
It’s true that zelly and the gang will go to uk or us and organize the future terrorists from there as a government in exile. So far, despite all I read about a great strategy, it looks like there is none, they just go from one day to anorher. Kiev, Odessa or Lviv are much safer than any city inside Russia, no one dares to disturb them. Today a fire started at a factory in Rostov region, it was a multiple drone strike

Posted by: rk | Jun 22 2022 9:54 utc | 133

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 9:55 utc | 137
——————————————————
Russia doesn’t ask for the pound of flesh as the US, and that’s the diff. The US made business from the WW2 with its so-called friend, the UK, by demanding the lend-lease payments in 1945.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 10:09 utc | 135

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 22 2022 9:49 utc | 134
Totally agree, but still, you might think that sometimes they might adopt a more rational strategy. I think it is coming back to bite them on the bum now.
In terms of 137, it is just possible that the s400s are not there anymore. If, as is my theory, Russia is watchful for a full on NATO attack, they just might have taken them home, as a precaution.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 22 2022 10:23 utc | 137

All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
Severodonetsk kettle starting to cook…will Ukraine fall back?

Posted by: Joe Tzu | Jun 22 2022 10:27 utc | 139

To debisdead and others, we have to be patient. Russia cannot take on America’s boss Israel and their other puppets right now.
It is all about taking care of business in Europe and looking after their people. Rightfully so. Israel is USA, their other arm in the ME. Their time is coming soon.
Forget the easy targets in Syria. At this time Syria is not really worried for both USA and Israel will be kicked out.
Just look at the usual threats to bomb Iran. When last did you see one?
No, that’s finished, but look at bombs in their Kurdish puppets by Iran and see the slow changing of the guard. Actually Russia most likely told Iran to hold the fort until we sort out these fools in Europe.
The world will not change overnight. Of course that depends on how stupid and insane USA is, but it has already changed.

Posted by: Karl luck | Jun 22 2022 10:33 utc | 141

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 22 2022 8:20 utc | 118
First things first this is not Russia Ukraine war. This is USA/West anglosphere war against Russia. Ukraine is the proxy, acquired in 2014 they’re groomed and trained to be their stormtrooper. In that regard yes USA actually already won since it is using former allies as their proxy although they are now suffering from damages to their own prestige.
The outfits and banners used in their proxy is Nazis, ideologues that has hurt Russia and of which Russia can’t ignore. USA know Russia would have to react, Russia knows USA would not stop just arming the proxy, at some point they’ll move themselves into Ukraine to put weapons there to use against Russia.

Posted by: Lucci | Jun 22 2022 10:40 utc | 143

This reminds me of my home town Glasgow, renaming Royal Exchange Square to Nelson Mandela Place during the terrible apartheid troubles in South Africa. The reason for the renaming was two fold, one to support Mandela, and two the South African consulate was situated in Royal Exchange Square, so when the consulate opened their mail it would say Nelson Mandela Place on it.
“The square near the US Embassy in Moscow was named after the DPR”
“The Moscow government decides: to assign to the unnamed territory located from Bolshoy Devyatinsky Lane to Maly Konyushkovsky Lane along Konyushkovskaya Street in the Presnensky district of the Central Administrative District of Moscow, the name is the square of the Donetsk People’s Republic,”
https://ria.ru/20220622/posolstvo-1797208047.html

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 22 2022 10:47 utc | 145

About the insidious nazification of the U.K. and the capture of Glastonbury Festival from being a free festival for peaceniks to being the mainline toxic psychotropic drug of modern propaganda.
Thanks to John C, Bevin and various others here filling in the ignored history of our culture.
First they came for the soft minded who watched their NHS drawn and quartered whilst pretending to love it..
The battlefields are in our minds and especially the youths and the frozen children who refuse to ‘grow up’ some choosing death over natural ageing even , they are so demented by the philosophy of youth, beauty, sexual availability and fantasy porn and sci-fi lies, a pseudo religious belief that keeps them/us all mentally retarded and enslaved for our forever masters.
Most of the western mythology has arisen through the new media of the C20th.
It started with DW Griffith’s reimagining the KKK – surely it wasn’t just a simple idea for making an entertaining movie was it?
(Chaplin realised what was being done – he tried to do something about it and was ostracised for the rest of his life especially the British aristo Nazi Masonic shite heads.)
The whole Disney formulation and the covert sci-fi bullshittery culminating first in Star Wars and the ‘Farce’ at the fag end of that C20th , teevee having been almost invented to inscribe into minds directly in peoples homes from childhood. Pop culture, music, comics, which gave rise to such crass fantasy of ‘superpower’ other worldliness Exceptionalism – leading to absurdities of ‘Super’ Men, ‘Wonder’ Women, who are the representation of the Supreme Beings that must be believed and obeyed.
Through history with the invention of the bloodsuckers, transmutations, Werewolves, Zombies and ethereal fairies and zombies – the English litrocracy has much to answer for its role in such myth creation via its red brick alchemist caves. From the ‘giants of the Victorian imperial fantasy to the wizards of film/tv/computer games – they have always worshipped one set of supreme beings – whether they realised it or not.
To these watching or attending Glastonbury Festival which has now been fully inveigled into mainstream media and propaganda space – remember nazism begins like this today. Tomorrow you will be burning not just Russian books and records but people.
Fuck the Nazis at Glasto or become a Nazi by failing to do so. Neutrality is not an option it is a vote for nazism.
Got it?

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 22 2022 10:58 utc | 147

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 22 2022 11:03 utc | 151
————–
And, Zelensky…😋

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 11:09 utc | 149

Moscow. 22nd of June. INTERFAX.RU – Moscow and Washington are exchanging signals on the situation with American citizens being held captive in the DPR, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on Wednesday.
“The work is progressing in terms of the exchange of official signals. We certainly warn citizens of all countries, including the United States, against appearing as mercenaries or in any other capacity in the zone of the special military operation and generally emphasize that the demand from them will be the most severe” he told reporters.
“And here, attempts to make round eyes, as happened yesterday in Washington after some statements from Moscow, they are inappropriate. Things are too serious, and people are involved in acts that are and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the laws applicable in this situation,” he added. he.
On the eve of June 21, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said that Washington was concerned about the possibility of the death penalty being applied to US citizens captured in Ukraine.
“We have seen Peskov’s comments [Press Secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov – IF]. It is shocking that a government official in Russia can even suggest the possibility of using the death penalty against US citizens,” Kirby said at a briefing.
Peskov said earlier that “we are talking about mercenaries who encroached on the lives of Russian servicemen and servicemen of the republics – the DPR and the LPR, respectively, they are accused of mercenarism.”
He noted that “they cannot and are not subject to the Geneva Convention in any way.” “Their crimes must be investigated, they must be brought to justice,” Peskov added.
When asked if the two Americans face the death penalty, the Kremlin spokesman replied: “Yes, we cannot exclude anything, because this is a court decision, and we never comment on it, and even more so, we have no right to interfere in the court decision.”

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 11:15 utc | 151

…. On June 21, up to 500 servicemen of the 59th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with weapons and military equipment, stationed in the shops of the Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant Okean, were killed…..
Likely 100KIA and 400WIA. 500 KIA is unlikely.
What more important from the MOD report is the Allies are beginning to prepping the landscape for Phase 3. The 3 units identified are Kiev top line brigades. Wrecking these units now makes liberation of Odessa Oblast possible by Christmas (7.Jan 2023😇)

Posted by: Exile | Jun 22 2022 11:25 utc | 153

Watcher #129
“I wonder if for some reason the USA attacked Canada or UK (perhaps liberating them after a Russian or Chinese invasion (JOKE), they would be so careless.”
Controlling interests in the US excel in dehumanising their adversary. Their expertise was honed in the Indian Wars and is simply being exported post-WWII. War with Canada would be heralded by slogans like “the only good Canuck is a dead Canuck”. Nor do I think it very unlikely: Polk’s “54 40 or fight” was an immediate symptom of the Manifest Destiny doctrine he supported. It would give US direct control of a vast amount of valuable resources. At the moment, further Northen expansion is unnecessary because the US totally controls the Canadian economy and is gradually de-industrialising it. As pressure for water and food increases that will change.

Posted by: TPaine | Jun 22 2022 11:37 utc | 155

Debisdead #118
Thanks for the forceful intervention!
I have been open to the idea of Russia working with fifth columnists in the West to coordinate their geopolitical moves, including the kinetics in Ukraine, with various self-sabotaging initiatives in the US and elsewhere. The international zionist networks are the obvious candidates. They may also have something to do with the Banderista revival of late too.
At the same time it seems Eurasians are generally following a more principled, deliberate approach so even though the new boss may not be the angel often described here the current hegemon does need to be phased out.
I suspect a deal has been done: Ukraine is being cleared out and many Israelis will be moving in to run the place after this is over – or something like that. The positive momentum for the foreseeable future is shifting to Eurasia. Ukraine is a key place between Western Europe and the New Central Kingdom of Russia, a good place for the future techno-fascist compradors of the Reset West to concentrate whilst centralbEurasia blasts forward into an infrastructural boom period following China’s recent lead, though hopefully with a bit more uplifted style and taste, a renewal of sorts of the Great Khan’s initiative which was founded on Law.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 22 2022 12:01 utc | 157

CarlD | Jun 22 2022 3:45 utc | 97

We are in fact talking about a new religion

Really? With talk of ” birth of a “new man” with “a burning faith and a heart of stone” who would not be afraid to destroy the enemies of Ukraine without mercy”” and “the assertion of the will to live, of power, of expansion” and “”fed by the legend of the last battle”, the “denial of what is” and the “fascinating image of the catastrophe that will bring something new”, it sounds like a repeat of the fantasies of nineteenth/twentieth century occult and millenarian sects.

Posted by: cirsium | Jun 22 2022 12:12 utc | 159

Fuck the Nazis at Glasto or become a Nazi by failing to do so. Neutrality is not an option it is a vote for nazism.
Got it?
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 22 2022 10:58 utc | 150
Grade A rant? Whatever you’re drinking I want me some!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 22 2022 12:18 utc | 161

Kharkov seven years ago, 22.06.2014 https://youtu.be/FcCV6fu29qc

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 12:32 utc | 163

Really? With talk of ” birth of a “new man” with “a burning faith and a heart of stone” who would not be afraid to destroy the enemies of Ukraine without mercy”” and “the assertion of the will to live, of power, of expansion” and “”fed by the legend of the last battle”, the “denial of what is” and the “fascinating image of the catastrophe that will bring something new”, it sounds like a repeat of the fantasies of nineteenth/twentieth century occult and millenarian sects.
Posted by: cirsium | Jun 22 2022 12:12 utc | 162
Reminds me of the Ghost Dancers, cargo cults, and invulnerable charms.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 22 2022 12:43 utc | 165

Wee sidenote …
It was reported that Ukraine shot a HIMARS rocket into Donetsk yesterday and Patrick Lancaster visited the site soon after.
After some new legislation against the spreading of pro-Russian “propaganda” (wherever that is actually done, I do not know) was launched earlier this week, I checked one of Germany`s main TV stations liveblog on events in Ukraine and guess what, not a single mention of the attack.
You couldn`t make it up …

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 22 2022 12:45 utc | 167

Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 22 2022 5:27 utc | 99
When toppling foreign regimes
Avoid riding bicycle
Joe Tzu

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 22 2022 12:48 utc | 169

“…Death is instantaneous but the caring and sharing MoA-ites don’t give a fuck, they’re distracted & entertained by whitefella dick waving in Ukraine.
…
The Russian government has shown itself to be just as riven with cheats and liars as every other imperialist nation state; no one wants to acknowledge it lest they have no one left to cheer for.
Same as it ever was.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 22 2022 8:20 utc | 118
A classic tedious Debsisdead whinefest. Can the eye doctor improve your perspective? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qxYz2T8G68
Bashar al-Assad: Russia Restored Lost International Balance (English subtitles)
Probably not – how could the President of Syria possibly be more credible than deaddebs?
Do you complain directly to the jew state or jews you know about the shitty little country‘s pogroms?

Posted by: tucenz | Jun 22 2022 12:57 utc | 171

“When toppling foreign regimes, give them a bicycle.”
— Joe Tzu

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 22 2022 13:02 utc | 173

“When toppling foreign regimes, give them a bicycle.”
— Joe Tzu
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 22 2022 13:02 utc | 176
———————–
😄 😋
Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 13:08 utc | 177
You have to learn the right lesson from these events.
🙂

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 22 2022 13:11 utc | 175

Posted by: Debsisdead | Jun 22 2022 8:20 utc | 118
Ha, old Deb hit on a few home truths in that rant. Even a few well earned digs at the MoA cabal, will we hear claims Deb is a concern troll? That should shut her up quick fast.

Posted by: Organic | Jun 22 2022 13:24 utc | 177

Maria Zacharova diplomatically tells us that Russia’s response to EU and Lithuanian blockade of K’grad “will not be diplomatic”
Is it Suwalki Gap time?
https://t.me/rocknrollgeopolitics/3904
Ned Price at State called Russian response yesterday “saber rattling and bravado”
https://www.rt.com/russia/557608-us-comments-kaliningrad-blockade/
The pessimist in me wants to correct him and say it will be more like ‘Kinzhal (dagger) rattling”
The optimist still hopes we are headed for a Cuban Missile moment, where after a few very nervous days people will come to their senses and stop the madness.

Posted by: Et Tu | Jun 22 2022 13:29 utc | 179

Desisdead #118
Thanks for the whack on the ear. I heard you well as I hold similar misgivings of middle east motives.
It is infuriating to watch the ceaseless torture of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 22 2022 9:41 utc | 133
______
Agreed. Syria always seemed to me the perfect venue for demonstrating “military-technical measures”, but so far reserving judgment on Russian strategy and motives. Maybe its one front too far, involving US, its Zionist patrons, Turkey, KSA, and other gulf states. It is deeply disappointing to watch Israel strike again and again with impunity.
I do hope DebsIsDead is wrong about Russia being an imperial Zionist tool; its leadership otherwise has shown consistent integrity in stark contrast to ZUSA. I’d be especially interested in karlof’s perspective.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 22 2022 13:31 utc | 181

NATO is a tool of White Supremacism

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 16:49 utc | 382

NATO is a tool of White Supremacy.

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 19:51 utc | 426

NATO is a tool of White Supremacism

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 20:21 utc | 433

NATO is a tool of White Supremacy

Posted by: Robert | Jun 21 2022 20:58 utc | 443
I was going to respond to your post but then I saw you are so afflicted with CRT that you simply double down each time someone points out the flaws in your reasoning.

Posted by: Down South | Jun 22 2022 13:33 utc | 183

Republicofscotland @132:

“…demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine…”.as you repeated in your comment, doesn’t that entail capturing Kiev, boots on the ground going from building to building, door to door, so to speak, which is if successful, however short a period when complete a temporary form of occupation.

Russian troops are not going to be doing that part. That will be the Ukrainian police, perhaps with a little Russian supervision, but no Russian occupation. If the Ukro-nazis somehow retain power until the very end and thus force the Russians to militarily defeat even Kiev then there will be no buildings left there to visit from door-to-door.
That’s up to the Ukrainian people. Maybe the stain of Nazism from western brainwashing really is indelible and they will choose for their survivors to live in rubble rather than letting go of their stupidity. The fact that the Ukraine’s Comedian in Chief won the Presidency by a landslide on the promise of ending the conflict and making peace with Russia suggests that the Ukrainian population isn’t quite that hopeless, though.
The Russians will continue to give the Ukrainians lots of opportunities to make the right choice and end the conflict by taking over the denazification operation themselves. I am confident that the Ukrainians will eventually figure out that is in their best interest, and long before Kiev has to be razed to the ground.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 22 2022 13:49 utc | 185

The optimist still hopes we are headed for a Cuban Missile moment, where after a few very nervous days people will come to their senses and stop the madness.
Posted by: Et Tu | Jun 22 2022 13:29 utc | 182
————————————————–
You mean the mad man demented Joe in the WH and Leyen & co?

Posted by: ostro | Jun 22 2022 13:53 utc | 187

The US has long held to an importance in Kazakhstan.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 22 2022 1:57 utc | 91
Of course they would due to the RF key satellite/ISS resupply base is Bakonur . Plus the very important Sary Shagan . Where does Russia recover the majority of cosmonauts?
Them Yankee pirate dudes would clearly love to evict/restrict RF access to space………..

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 22 2022 13:57 utc | 189

Yes, and Lithuania said they don’t care about BRELL and will disconnect themselves by 2025 anyway. The brainwashed citizens will gladly pay 3-5x more as the haters they are. So… what else?

Posted by: rk | Jun 22 2022 14:01 utc | 191

“….Russia did nothing because like amerika their government operates at the behest of rich zionists…”
“..The Russian government has shown itself to be just as riven with cheats and liars as every other imperialist nation state; no one wants to acknowledge it lest they have no one left to cheer for…”
Debsisdead@118
You are simplifying a situation which is very complex. Neither the US nor Russia is governed by Zionists except in the sense that zionism suits both governments, for different reasons. It suits the States because Israel is a solid military base which does what Washington wants. As to Russia-that is a more complex question and one where the wheel is spinning…There are signs of change. The zionist party in the Kremlin is fading away.
The situation that Debsisdead refers to seems to me to be very similar to the Cold War in which the same criticisms were made of the Soviet Union: “Why did it not do more to assist the Palestinians?” or “The Vietnamese.”
“Why was Angola’s revolution left to Cuba to defend?”
They were all valid questions. But they were not unanswered: the Soviet Union, from 1945 onwards bent over backwards for peace. And it did very little more than the minimum to assist even North Korea (it was the GDR which helped rebuild Pyongyang). The reasons are complex and I’m not claiming to understand what they all were. John Helmer’s column today approaches the subject tangentially. He writes about the ‘cultural cringe’ which led to Gorbachev giving away the farm in his negotiations/surrender with Bush.
And that was part of it: Russia has been victimised by a pro-european Fifth Column for centuries. And the attitudes of the self despising intellectuals- so desperate to be seen as equals by the (grotesquely inferior) class which feasted on the people of India and the workers of the UK, that they inclined to distrust even their own instincts of self preservation.
It was Gorbachev who caused the problems in Ukraine and elsewhere. And Russia’s failures over Syria- if Debsisdead is right and I suspect that he is- are in the Gorbachev tradition.
And that is why, quite apart from the war porn attractions that he sees in the current crisis, what is taking place in Ukraine is of such importance. It indicates, perhaps, a significant escalation in Moscow’s determination “not to take it any more.”
Its the same thing that we saw in Chechnya, Georgia and Crimea: Russia appears to have drawn a line in the sand and told the imperialists (the real imperialists that is) that in future it will not surrender automatically to aggressions like that of the Maidan in 2014.
Together with the new firmness of China towards the United States, the crushing of the Colour Revolution in Kazakhstan and Iran’s firm responses to imperialist attacks the war in Ukraine seems to herald a new dawn in international relations, one in which the ‘bad guys’-and the formerly British Empire and friends are the bad guys- meet with some of the resistance that Stalin prevented the Greeks from putting up in 1944 and successive Soviet governments prevented the Italians and French, the Spanish and Portuguese from taking when power in those states was ready for contest in the forties and fifties.
It is not difficult to justify the Soviet/Russian positions: they were desperately weakened by the German attack and the exhausted peoples of the Soviet Union wanted peace and a chance to divert capital from war preparations to economic and social development. The Empire feared that more than anything. It was determined to keep the Russian people impoverished, using every kopeck of capital on munitions and maintaining vast conscript armies of the labour so desperately needed elsewhere in the economy.
We all know the history of the Cold War, what is rarely recalled is how cruel and genocidal it was, deliberately aimed at weakening and therefore killing millions of people, while the “West” like a vampire prospered on the blood of the Russians, Chinese, eastern Europeans and the subjects of the colonial and neo-colonial systems.
The ‘west” laughed at the Soviet Union’s attempts to co-exist in peace. It read them as indications of weakness and cues for further aggression. (You can still hear the laughter from the Foreign Office and the State Department echoing seventy years later.) When every village in Latin America was teeming with young Lenin’s, Stalins and Vladimir Ilyichs- indications of what the people in America’s backyard really wanted, the Communist Parties of places like Cuba and the Dominican were silent or even acquiescent with the Batistas and the Banzers.
Now, it seems that things might be changing: no longer the Soviet Union , Russia at least seems to be forceful in defending Russians abroad-something that Latvia and Estonia are probably thinking about now- militarily if necessary. China, Russia and Iran have all given some assistance to defend Venezuela, too, and Nicaragua.
And the truth is that while neither China nor Russia is doing much for Palestine- certainly not in the military sense- Iran most certainly is. In fact one could argue that the three major enemies of Empire have divided the world into spheres of influence. Iran does what it can in the Gulf and to defend Syria and Yemen, Russia has Europe and Central Asia to deal with while China has plenty, including east asia to look after.
What it all adds up to is that it is very reasonable that people here should regard developments in the Donbas as important, because they really are: if Russia can reclaim the Russians of Novorossiya from Kiev’s NATO-Nazis the world will see that the old euro-creole empire is on the ropes, at last.
If the people of Odessa and Donetsk and the region then proudly vote, by 80% or more I would guess, to leave Ukraine, Washington’s long nose will spurt blood, perhaps enough for the electorate to notice it. And, in Europe a new generation of sensible, independent, perhaps right wing nationalists, perhaps socialist internationalists, will take over governments.
And the world will be a better place. And better placed to deal with the real problems that face us all, including climate change and the threat of pandemics.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 22 2022 14:07 utc | 193

I don’t entirely disagree with you but I am not jumping on a hate Putin bandwagon just because he is human and because Russia is self interested. I don’t know why they don’t stop Israel, I’m sure there is a reason and it may turn out to be pure evil. But I’m not jumping to conclusions. I think you are, but that is your prerogative.
Posted by: K | Jun

Regarding Russia, Syria, and Occupied Palestine —
I too am disappointed that Russia isn’t taking a more active role to protect Syria (and, for that matter, Lebanon) from the Zionist threat, especially now that it looks like Europe’s survival hinges on Occupied Palestine’s planned massive theft of Lebanese and Palestinian offshore gas. However, it’s worth noting the following:
1. There’s a significant and powerful Zionist fifth column inside Russia. Putin isn’t a Stalin, and can’t just purge them away.
2. The leadership classes of Occupied Palestine openly fantasize about taking the rest of the world down with their state, should the going get rough. I suppose there’s a vestige of rationality in such an obscene thought; at least they don’t fantasize about *winning* a first-strike nuclear war, unlike a certain North American predator state. But it does mean that Russia has to handle those states with kid gloves.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 22 2022 14:09 utc | 195

I do hope DebsIsDead is wrong about Russia being an imperial Zionist tool; its leadership otherwise has shown consistent integrity in stark contrast to ZUSA. I’d be especially interested in karlof’s perspective.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 22 2022 13:31 utc | 184
I feel ya.
Nations, like people, as well as really existing are processed as concepts/words and in so doing we attribute singularity to multi-faceted phenomena. The classic example is that of a river which we can identify cognitively as a single thing – ‘river’ – but which in fact is never the same thing from one moment to the next.
Similarly a nation – like Russia – is a broad spectrum of things rather than a single thing per se. And the same goes for leaders – like Putin. Yes, he is an identifiable individual but as President he presides over a wide spectrum of territories, people and competing interests. His job is to navigate the ship of state through all those dynamic waters in ever-changing weather systems. Never the same thing twice.
So Russia is a wide-spectrum phenomenon no doubt with many shades of grey in the mix, hardly ever pure black or white.
Russia is at war with the hegemonic vector of the Western spectrum and in so doing is no doubt in continual relationship with many different sectors at play within the Western sphere. Putin insists that Russia doesn’t do regime change or election interference and he may well be telling the truth; but other networks within the US DO do those things and he may well be in touch with some of them, I suspect not so much for reasons of tactical participation as coordination of timing. No matter the ways and means, I think assuming that there are no devious gambits at play on all sides of this is a tad naive.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 22 2022 14:13 utc | 197

@karlof1 #76
Re: Turkish media
Idiotic. Among the benefits:
1) Being able to deny NATO expansion to Finland/Sweden.
2) Not being attackable by NATO.

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 22 2022 14:25 utc | 199