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June 19, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-90
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F22 sind Schrott
Schlagzeile : Zwei US-amerikanische F-22 Kampfjets haben am Mittwoch russische Su-25 und Su-35 Jets abgefangen, die in den US-Schutzraum über Syrien geflogen sind — und sie offenbarten dabei einen entscheidenden Nachteil der US-Super-Jets.
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https://www.businessinsider.de/politik/usa-mit-f22-russland-unterlegen-2018-5/Link dazu
Posted by: ma | Jun 19 2022 22:15 utc | 201
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 19 2022 21:39 utc | 184
Yeah I almost added something about how U.S. Americans are the ones with the gall to call ourselves “Americans” when in fact Canadians, Mexicans, Central and South Americans are all Americans.
The Mexican media refers to the USA as “North America” (in Spanish) as well, and IIRC, they don’t lump Canada into that; calling them simply Canada (accent on the final A).
Posted by: Moabeobachter | Jun 19 2022 22:08 utc | 196
I know you were probably responding to someone else there, but that’s precisely why I found it so humorous that Lockheed Martin has a ‘product’ web page for the F-22 that they can’t even sell to anyone but their already captive customers, the US military. Like who are they bragging to or trying to sell to with that?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 19 2022 22:18 utc | 202
The top ten list of the countries where the nazi volunteer support comes from.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2022 22:21 utc | 203
moabeobachter @ 196
It is also common knowledge that original plan was to build 750 F-22 planes (or possibly even more). Production was stopped after 186 because it was a POS. That the F-35 is even worse does not make the F-22 any good.
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 19 2022 22:40 utc | 204
Mexico is in North America.
Therefore its culture is a north american
culture as it cannot be anything else.
Seriously, the gall.
Arganthonios @ 160
You are mistaken. A curious modernism aside, Mexico is in Central America.
https://tinyurl.com/mr2xmn7e
Posted by: whome | Jun 19 2022 23:02 utc | 206
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 19 2022 22:21 utc | 201
The list sounds believable to me. That said, I didn’t find it a surprise at all that Canada comes in at #2 – Not only is there a large Ukrainian expat/offspring community in Canada, but I’d bet most of them are descendants of Bandera’s devotees and agents.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 19 2022 23:09 utc | 207
Pepe Escobar’s newest item, “St. Petersburg sets the stage for the War of Economic Corridors”:
“In a nutshell: the west misjudged Russia’s sovereignty when sanctioning it, and now is paying a very heavy price.”
Pepe’s essay is peppered with links, many of which go to key sessions of the SPIEF that haven’t been discussed here as of yet. I see lots of video viewing and note taking in my immediate future. More from Pepe:
“In a new era defined by Russian business circles as ‘the game with no rules’ – debunking the US-coined ‘rules-based international order’ – another relevant discussion, featuring key Putin adviser Maxim Oreshkin, focused on what should be the priorities for big business and the financial sector in connection to the state’s economic and foreign policy.
“The consensus is that the current ‘rules’ have been written by the west. Russia could only connect to existing mechanisms, underpinned by international law and institutions. But then the west tried to ‘squeeze us out’ and even ‘to cancel Russia.’ So it’s time to ‘replace the no-rules rules.’ That’s a key theme underlying the concept of ‘sovereignty’ developed by Putin in his plenary address.”
IMO, we should see the various statements about Europe being a mere colony of the Outlaw US Empire that I pounced on as a message to European business that their future is dim if they submit further. I see the following as the dropping of a small bomb:
“In another important discussion chaired by the CEO of western-sanctioned Sberbank Herman Gref, there was much hand-wringing about the fact that the Russian ‘evolutionary leap forward towards 2030’ should have happened sooner. Now a ‘long-term strategy has to be built in weeks,’ with supply chains breaking down all across the spectrum.
“A question was posed to the audience – the crème de la crème of Russia’s business community: what would you recommend, increased trade with the east, or redirecting the structure of the Russian economy? A whopping 72 percent voted for the latter.”
Pepe’s article is clearly truncated by space constraints as he clearly has much more to write about but stops with an abrupt conclusion. I’m very curious to discover what’s meant by “redirecting the structure of the Russian economy” for much has already occurred in that realm.
whome @204–
Yes, I’d agree with that assessment since all its North American territories were stolen by the Outlaw US Empire in two phases 1835-36 and 1846-48. Mexican culture’s blend of Indio and Spanish is completely foreign to the English/French roots of North America.
Old hippie;
You know full well that the reason they did not build any more is because they are very expensive and it would be overkill.
They are in service till at least mid 2030s and then will be succeeded by some 6-gen type.
The lack of basic knowledge and juvenile attempts at point scoring is an “Armutszeugnis”.
Once again – if you take your anti imperialism seriously then take your enemy seriously.
As Mao said – “Seek truth from facts”.
Posted by: Moaobserver | Jun 19 2022 23:23 utc | 210
Posted by: Rob | Jun 19 2022 17:44 utc | 95
“I am trying to get my head around why the US/NATO would want to escalate the war with Russia…”
An even deeper question is why has the West acted so belligerent towards Russia since the end of the second world war? Are there no political leaders who can see all the advantages of being on friendly terms with Russia and eirk towards a spirit of mutual cooperation and peaceful competitiveness instead of the constant hate-mongering and war-mongering? It seems pretty clear to me that being on friendly terms with the West is what Putin wanted and tried very hard to achieve but was rebuffed over and over again, or simply ignored. Is the West that insane?
Posted by: Krypton | Jun 19 2022 23:34 utc | 211
karlof1 | Jun 19 2022 23:15 utc | 206 “I’m very curious to discover what’s meant by “redirecting the structure of the Russian economy” for much has already occurred in that realm.”
My guess would be autarky. Full self sufficiency of supply chains and goods.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 19 2022 23:45 utc | 212
Is the West that insane?
Posted by: Krypton | Jun 19 2022 23:34 utc | 209
Yes, our leadership and the corporations/banksters/oligarchs who own them are in fact insane – and mostly sociopaths at various points along the spectrum.
But post WWII is not accurate in as far as how long the US (and western Europe) have been hostile to Russia. It started with the Bolsheviks and the rabid anti-communism that was violently imprinted on Western minds for decades, starting in grade school, pervasive in Hollywood and the big oligarch-capitalist owned newspapers, and which served as a very lucrative basis upon which to justify massive, massive (and always increasing) military budgets as well as control over resources and supply lines and chaos on the periphery or within any country that wasn’t yet bending over for Uncle Scam to plunder.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 19 2022 23:49 utc | 213
In relation to discussion about the meaning of SMO (sometimes rendered as NWO in some translations of Russian articles) I’ll add the following observation. Someone here at MOA linked to a website aftershock.news. When I appraised it, I noticed there that Ukrainian SMO news is in a section titled Peace Enforcement – day ##. The original Russian is Принуждение к миру. This is an internationaly defined term which means what it says – Peace, by force if necessary, imposed on warring parties. So that is a further perspective of the SMO.
Posted by: tucenz | Jun 19 2022 23:53 utc | 214
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 19 2022 23:49 utc | 211
Hell, as for Russophobia, it probably predates even the Bolsheviks. There has long been a racist undercurrent of thought on the Slavic (and Asian and pretty much any “Other”) peoples in the “civilized” West. That’s just one of the reasons, along with decades of intense anti-communism, it was so easy for TPTB to ramp up the Russia hate even after the wall came down. How many times has an American politician or appointee gaffed and said “Soviet Union” or “USSR” when referring to Russia during Russiagate or the current military operation?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 19 2022 23:53 utc | 215
@Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 19 2022 23:49 utc | 211
There is an excellent book “The First Cold War: The Legacy of Woodrow Wilson in U.S. – Soviet Relations” by Donald Davis and Eugene Trani, that covers the period after 1917 to the mid 1930’s when the impacts of the Great Depression plus Roosevelt’s presidency changed the dynamic, with a further loosening in the WW2 years (at least after 1941) until the U.S.’s reinstatement of the Cold War post-WW2.
The intense communist-hatred of the US ruling class is evident in many of the quotes from diplomatic cables etc. The US has been against an independent Russia/Soviet Union since at least WW1, with communism adding an extra level of hatred. The US “loss” of Russia under Putin produced the same hysteria as the “loss” of China in 1949.
If we are speaking strictly in terms of capabilities, F-22 is easily the most capable fighter jet on the planet, once SU-57 gets better engines and some electronics upgrades, it may rival, but we aren’t there yet. I’d say F-22 was the American MIC last hurrah before financialization of the military and its associated corruption really set in.
Of course combat capability under ideal circumstances isn’t the only measure of combat utility. Price, maintenance issues and logistics during war also factor in, and these aren’t factors in favor of F-22.
Stupidly, they quit production, which limits weapon upgrade options going forward.
How much value stealth has going forward is an interesting question.
Posted by: Haassaan | Jun 20 2022 0:01 utc | 217
Regis Tremblay with an excellent session:
Ray McGovern and Scott Ritter return to discuss the cracks in the US/NATO/EU narrative, plus the End Came in Ukraine, and the blame is shifting to Biden because it’s how badly Americans are hurting. The November mid-term elections will hear Americans not just speak, but shout!
A one hour utoob analysis of the lunacy being squeaked from the western ratholes.
McGovern is as incisive as you would expect. I am still listening so go there and find more gems in the dust for yourself.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 0:02 utc | 218
Posted by: whome | Jun 19 2022 23:02 utc | 204
I am not going to click on a shortened link by a driveby.
And anyhow, no.
Every common source I can find, reliably includes Mexico (and the Caribbean) within North America.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_North_America
“The continent is delimited on the southeast by most geographers at the Darién watershed along the Colombia-Panama border, placing all of Panama within North America.[2][3][4] Alternatively, a less common view would end North America at the man-made Panama Canal. Islands generally associated with North America include Greenland, the world’s largest island, and archipelagos and islands in the Caribbean. The terminology of the Americas is complex, but “Anglo-America” can describe Canada and the U.S., while “Latin America” comprises Mexico and the countries of Central America and the Caribbean, as well as the entire continent of South America.”
[…]
“Three countries (Canada, the United States, and Mexico) make up most of North America’s land mass; they share the continent with 34 [!] other island countries in the Caribbean and south of Mexico.”
You’re trying to pass “anglo-america” for “north america”, this is some obvious anti-hispanic bullshit; one only needs to look at a map. And there are english-speaking countries within those “other 34”, anyhow, so not just “anti-hispanic” but overall “fuck everybody else”.
And all for calling dibs on a continental name.
I’m beyond fed up with Pindos trying to rewrite every other word to their advantage, which is also a deeply-seated aspect of the “current shitshow”.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 20 2022 0:04 utc | 219
@Posted by: Roger | Jun 19 2022 23:58 utc | 214
Book Summary
“In The First Cold War, Donald E. Davis and Eugene P. Trani review the Wilson administration’s attitudes toward Russia before, during, and after the Bolshevik seizure of power. They argue that before the Russian Revolution, Woodrow Wilson had little understanding of Russia and made poor appointments that cost the United States Russian goodwill. Wilson later reversed those negative impressions by being the first to recognize Russia’s Provisional Government, resulting in positive U.S.–Russian relations until Lenin gained power in 1917.
Wilson at first seemed unsure whether to recognize or repudiate Lenin and the Bolsheviks. His vacillation finally ended in a firm repudiation when he opted for a diplomatic quarantine having almost all of the ingredients of the later Cold War. Davis and Trani argue that Wilson deserves mild criticism for his early indecision and inability to form a coherent policy toward what would become the Soviet Union. But they believe Wilson rightly came to the conclusion that until the regime became more moderate, it was useless for America to engage it diplomatically.
The authors see in Wilson’s approach the foundations for the “first Cold War”—meaning not simply a refusal to recognize the Soviet Union, but a strong belief that its influence was harmful and would spread if not contained or quarantined. Wilson’s Soviet policy in essence lasted until Roosevelt extended diplomatic recognition in the 1930s. But The First Cold War suggests that Wilson’s impact extended beyond Roosevelt to Truman, showing that the policies of Wilson and Truman closely resemble each other with the exception of an arms race. Wilson’s intellectual reputation lent credibility to U.S. Cold War policy from Truman to Reagan, and the reader can draw a direct connection from Wilson to the collapse of the USSR. Wilsonians were the first Cold War warriors, and in the era of President Woodrow Wilson, the first Cold War began.”
Peter AU1 @210–
Thanks for your reply. Autarky is already ongoing. The key IMO is supply chains in relation to EAEU/BRI integration. Then there’s the issue of duplicate efforts being made where only one is required, which is an issue that surfaced in the discussion between Putin and Tokayev. There’s also the issue of strategic commodities, specifically chips and the few remaining high tech items Russia still can’t manufacture. Anyway, as I commented to Pepe, there’s a plethora of info to absorb that takes time away from other investigations. SPIEF info will take two days to sift through at the rate I move at. It’s not that I’m slow; it’s life’s other demands.
@Arganthonios, 217
@whome, 204
Everything east of the Irish Sea is Eastern Europe. Western Europe now consists of Ireland. Iceland is the 8th Continent.
moabeobachter@ 196
Pardon me, but it seems you have contradicted yourself in that, earlier, you stated that just 50 F-35’s would be more than sufficient to give NATO air supremacy.
Then, you were in agreement that they are a boondoggle.
Which is it?
Have they fixed that voluminous punch-list of serious problem’s already?
Can it fly when lightning is present in the area now?
Can it sustain high speed flight?
Maybe the Israeli ‘s got it sussed…..
Secondly, have you and some of the other posters that are so dissatisfied with Mr. Martyanov shared your thoughts at HIS blog?
Hey, everyone should be open to constructive criticism, right?
I, for one, would very much be interested in the conversation.
Or maybe try Larry C. Johnson’s blog
Probably shouldn’t try it at The Saker…..I don’t think they’d be super receptive.
Just my opinion – I could be wrong!
Lastly, seeing that only a couple regulars have responded to you, more than likely, you are just a sympathy troll.
Ciao!
Posted by: Lauren Michele | Jun 20 2022 0:16 utc | 223
And yes, in that crowd, there were a lot of rednecks, climate change deniers, fascists, Nazis, puppets of the far right, etc.
That is not to say that all supporters of the truckers fell into that category, but a lot did/do.
Posted by: retiredmecheng | Jun 19 2022 19:23 utc | 130
Stop drinking the kool-aid. The truckers were not a Nazi movement, FFS. Every protest attracts fringe elements, like anarchists and Nazis. Every serious protest takes measures to counter those elements, otherwise they get taken over and coopted by the fringe elements. The truckers were extraordinarily vigilant to prevent this, they had block captains and comms and anyone who tried spouting white supremacist nonsense or flying a Swastika was escorted off the premises within seconds.
Calling the truckers Nazis was Trudeau’s way of demonizing the truckers, trying to get the public on board with the legal and constitutional overreach of his response to a legal, peaceful protest. And sadly even here, some people appear to have bought into this bullshit. Having spent some time at the protest, I can tell you it was the friendliest and most family-oriented event I have attended in years, with nary a Nazi to be seen. In fact I went up and down Wellington St asking where the Nazis were, everyone pointed to the Parliament building and said “In there!” And they were right. The Trudeau government is populated by honest-to-god Nazis, finances, arms and trains real Nazis in Ukraine, and responded to domestic dissent from their agenda exactly like a bunch of Nazis would.
Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jun 20 2022 0:18 utc | 224
@moabeobachter #165
So many fantasies, so little time.
Let’s say there are 50 F22s in Europe and operational.
First of all, air superiority does not mean the US/EU/NATO can home at will as it has in the past.
Secondly, the F22s have to fly from somewhere and be resupplied.
So even if they are invulnerable to Russian air defenses: a huge assumption given an F117 was shot down by a literally generation old Serbian AD unit in that R2P affair, it doesn’t mean that the rest of the US/EU/NATO air forces can bomb at leisure as happened in Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia and so forth.
In the meantime, the Russian military will be using its battle hardened, drone equipped, artillery heavy ground units. The Russian forces will include multiple layers of AD as noted before.
An “air superiority” situation where neither side can bomb at will, is a win for the Russian strategy.
So let’s just say I am quite unconvinced by the “all eggs in the F22 basket” scenario
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 20 2022 0:21 utc | 225
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 19 2022 20:22 utc | 156
In a nutshell!
Posted by: Moabeobachter | Jun 19 2022 20:42 utc | 165
Military hardware/tech is only ONE part of the equation. THE most important part is strategy, which also includes the ability to adjust more quickly than your opponent.
And it also cannot be stated enough, that supply lines make all the difference. Russia controls the supply lines in Ukraine (for it’s, Russia’s, purposes): the “West”, as seen by long-range missile strikes by Russia, does not (and would not be able to).
There was a mention of US tanks. How are they going to get to where they are needed? Cannot transport via roadway due to weight limitations on roads over there. Rail is the only real way and rail lines are easily destroyed (Russia has somewhat held off so far, but if things heat up it’ll likely not hold back on doing so).
With regards to why the US and the West are pushing weapons toward Ukraine I can only speculate that much is going to be staged in Poland for future use- I suspect that the US/NATO is still trying to work its people up into enough fervor to accept a leap toward engaging Russia head-on. Fair odds that Poland (or Lithuania?) will be used to provoke Russia as a means of creating the justification for NATO to take the plunge.
F-22s or not, Russia has the upper hand as it has the logistics, is fighting in its own backyard, has its defense industry ramped up already and so on. And unlike the West, Russia ha true skin in this game: for all others (Ukraine aside) that’s NOT the case. The longer things play out the worse it is for the West due to economic fallout: populations will be starting to lash out at their governments.
Posted by: Seer | Jun 20 2022 0:25 utc | 226
Krypton #209
Yes, the West is that insane. Insane with envy, greed and power and driven – perhaps commanded – by oligarchs possessing the same illusion, affliction, sociopathy.
See what the USA has done for the past century in elevating oligarchs at home and in South America for example. They train teams of assassins and death squads to slaughter all socialist thought throughout the americas and enable the consolidation of oligarchy anywhere the USA deems fit.
At home they artfully and persistently and 24/7 fracture, disable and occasionally murder any leftist action. The outlaw US empire has perfected globalisation for oligarchy. Perhaps. But it cannot sustain it.
Then there are the source nations of this parasite disease of oligarchy in and around europe – UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France etc, etc. They too have or had colonial practices equally as insane and murderous as the USA today.
They establish invasive colonies such as the Boers in South Africa, Israel in occupied Palestine, etc etc. These murderous invasions with their feeble justifications perpetuate either plunder or key security points of benefit to their insane masters. There is no race, no religion as their unifying force. There is only their service to the perpetuation and globalisation of oligarchy and f#ck the people.
To respond to this insanity first see it, then demand laws and leaders that will limit the power and reach of private wealth. That is what the screaming in the tabloids is really all about: Only a few countries are successful: Cuba, China, Russia, Venezuela and others.
That is why the race hate spewed by these oligarchs and their media over the liberation of Ukraine is such a din. The insane screeching of the deprived oligarch in its den.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 0:26 utc | 227
@Moaobserver | Jun 19 2022 23:23 utc | 208
The chengyu 实事求是 shíshì-qiúshì is 0ver 2100 years old, Mao Zedong indeed cited it in 1938, while his post revolution practice was not seldom voluntaristic and dogmatic. Deng Xiaping gave this motto a lasting meaning, namely that facts should always override ideological preoccupations.
While you did make a lot of interesting accounts in different discussions, your irrational praise of a single, possibly not bad warplane is bewildering. I found that account of a pilot who flew both F-22 and SU-35 that in an encounter with the latter he would prefer to use the stealth abilities to escape, quite interesting.
Your reasoning has a lot of pissing contest appearance, “Schwanzvergleich” (penis size/length comparison) as said in German.
There are no Wunderwaffen. Even good planes can and will be shot down, be it in dogfight, or by AA. And I much doubt in the ability of some 50 or few hundred tactical fighters to gain air superiority, much less air supremacy, over the integrated air defense of the Russian airspaces, and the Russian fighter force. A serious encounter would reveal vulnerabilities not known by now.
Mind that no US weapon system since the Vietnam war has been in serious fight with an opponent even remotely equal. And the US did not score convincing success even against much less strong opponents.
Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 20 2022 0:27 utc | 228
@223
50 F-22 wouldn’t give NATO air supremacy. They are detectable and targetable close to Russia’s borders.
They’d probably be used to slowly degrade Russian radar installations using HARM missiles from standoff range.
Maintenance issues and logistics would limit sortie rates.
Posted by: Haassaan | Jun 20 2022 0:31 utc | 229
Roger @2118–
Thanks Roger! Yes, excellent book can be read here. A book review provided by MIT Press is here. And an open preview can be found here . And here’s something I don’t find often, a 359 page PhD dissertation by Asgar M. Asgarov, “REPORTING FROM THE FRONTLINES OF THE FIRST COLD WAR: AMERICAN DIPLOMATIC DESPATCHES ABOUT THE INTERNAL CONDITIONS IN THE SOVIET UNION, 1917-1933,” Dissertation submitted to the Faculty of the Graduate School of the University of Maryland, College Park, in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy 2007.
@Moabeobachter #165
As for the lost decade: yes, Russia had a lost decade.
And despite this, they have fielded new jets, new tanks, new AFVs, a new ICBM, new ships, new subs, standardized drones at the platoon level, new MLRS, new AD systems including both S400 and S500, combat ECM systems, the list goes on and on and on.
The US has not fielded a new ground combat weapon system since the 1980s. Not a new tank, not a new IFV or AFV – but only the Stryker LAV which is cold meat against any form of peer adversary.
The US has fielded 1 air combat platform: the F22 which is now discontinued. That force is “10 little indians, 9 little indians etc” and its replacement – the F35 – isn’t even testing against design specs yet.
The US has fielded all manner of failed naval systems, air systems, ground transport systems, etc etc.
So not quite clear what point you are illustrating.
Again, I’m not saying that the F22 or whatever wunderwaffe the US expects to do its Last Starfighter or Alamo stand with, won’t perform as advertised; what I am saying is that expecting the best case scenario performance with no alternative and no depth is just plain stupid and unlikely to end well. And it seems pretty clear that the non-political types in the US military community are well aware of this.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 20 2022 0:36 utc | 231
The US has been against an independent Russia/Soviet Union since at least WW1, with communism adding an extra level of hatred.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 20 2022 0:04 utc | 217
Seeing the current situation I’m not so sure anymore.
I suspect the lack of a strong ideological contradiction gives the US’ camp’s supremacist rage an additional degree of irrationality.
Now they’re not only irate, they’re jealous too, and soon they’ll probably also be envious.
None of this could happen before.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 20 2022 0:37 utc | 232
Kingsmeg #222
Agreed, from what I observed and researched the Truckers team was diligent and really alert to the danger of being infiltrated and set up. The left in Canada has many tales to tell of the subversive infiltration of their ranks.
I have first hand experience in my land of the police organising early release for prisoners from max security prisons to drop off at greenies forest blockades in the peak of struggles to save rainforest. We politely photographed them and pointed this out to the states leading politicians next day as we simultaneously prepared civil actions for breach of parole. They were rounded up and escorted away.
In the USA it is normalised, its what the FBI and all police forces are trained in and it would be foolish to think Canada is immune.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 0:41 utc | 233
Damn, wrong quote line.
Should have been:
Posted by: Roger | Jun 19 2022 23:58 utc | 214
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 20 2022 0:43 utc | 234
@Moabeobachter #196
Yes, the F22s are so wonderful that the US Air Force wants to retire 20% of them, to free up more money for the NGAD:
Why the Air Force wants to retire nearly 1 in 5 of its F22 fleet
Last week, the Pentagon released its budget request for 2023, which—among a long list of other changes to the force—calls for the retirement of more than thirty Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptors, widely believed to be the most capable air superiority fighter on the planet. Because the United States ended the F-22’s production run after just 186 aircraft were delivered, this cut represents nearly one-fifth of all Raptors in existence.
…
The advantage this degree of stealth can provide in combat can be seen clearly in a 2013 incident in which an American F-22 approached a pair of Iranian F-4 Phantoms harassing an American MQ-1 Predator drone. The F-22 pilot, Lt. Col. Kevin “Showtime” Sutterfield, was able to take his F-22 right up to one of the Iranian fighters entirely undetected, fly below the offending jet to inspect its weapons load, and then pull up alongside the Phantom to tell him, “you really oughta go home.” [yay so the F22 is invisible to jets brought into service in 1958…]
…
Now, the Air Force wants to retire these Block 20 F-22s, which were not capable of seeing combat anyway, to reallocate the money it would have used to maintain these fighters toward updating their existing combat-ready F-22 fleet. This will mean increasing the wear and tear on America’s combat-coded F-22s, as they’ll have to be used for training as well, and each hour these aircraft fly is—in a very real way—one hour closer to extinction.
The F-22 was originally designed to fly for 8,000 hours per airframe (though modernization efforts are said to have doubled that), but with so few F-22s left in existence, it seems the Raptor is clearly now living on borrowed time.
Oops it seems the F22 is getting old, and a significant number “were not capable of seeing combat anyway”.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 20 2022 0:43 utc | 235
Seer #224
The longer things play out the worse it is for the West due to economic fallout: populations will be starting to lash out at their governments.
See TWENTY + Italian cities
For Russia, there is no rush, just meticulous grinding down of nazis and sucking the oxygen out of the western blathering mind.
All good.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 0:49 utc | 236
Between all the NATO countries they have enough men to mount an expeditionary force. By press ganging Ukrainian males in EU countries they can have a large supply of cannon fodder.
Which, I presume, will march to the front…. carrying Javelin ATGMs….
Manufactured…. together with all the necessary ammo, food, clothing, body armour…
In factories….
Powered by……
………….?????
While NATO farmers plant crops fertilized by………………
Sourced from ……………..
??????
While NATO’s fighter jets burn………….
Sourced from…………….??????
You obviously don’t get it….
Yet……..
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 20 2022 0:55 utc | 237
“..Hell, as for Russophobia, it probably predates even the Bolsheviks…” Tom_Q_Collins@213
It most certainly does. It was the basis of The Great Game- in itself the basis for hundreds of thousands of jobs in the military etc in the UK and India- which goes back to the 1820s.
The truth is that the contest between Eurasian land based trade and the maritime empires’ sea based commerce is ancient, was already old when Vasco da Gama sailed into the Indian Ocean, and is what the current conflicts are really about.
Mackinder was simply reflecting on ancient histories.
And now the contest is going to be about Africa
Posted by: bevin | Jun 20 2022 1:00 utc | 238
karlof1 | Jun 20 2022 0:11 utc | 219
From what Putin and others said, Russia is self sufficient in the strategic sphere including radiation resistant chips. I think this is where the main effort has been put in since 2014.
The civilian sphere is another matter – auto manufacturing, machine tools nic nacs like phones and so forth. Passenger aircraft and gas compressors are a couple of things that come to mind.
Putin has spoken of quite a number of aspects of civilian life where the sanctions cause problems and what needs doing. It seems like the business people also think along those lines – local manufacturing and tech rather than simply importing from a different country.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 1:01 utc | 239
uncle tungsten@234
Your link to Press TV indicates that the spectre is still haunting Europe.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 20 2022 1:02 utc | 240
I am trying to get my head around why the US/NATO would want to escalate the war with Russia, when it is perfectly evident that Russia has the superior military by a wide margin. Why would the western alliance not try to end the war, rather than expand it to Lithuania, Poland and ultimately other NATO nations, including the US? The only answer that comes to mind is that US policy makers know only one way to act, which is with arrogance and belligerence. They must, at all costs, keep trying to assert their supposed superiority. Getting crushed on the battlefield and in their own domestic economies is someone else’s problem, as they see it. Also, expanding the war is a boon to their pals in the MIC, which many of those same policy makers hope to join in due tim
The SMO was a pre-emptive strike to nullify a planned UkroNazi blitzkreig of the DonBas….
The NATO plan was to force Russia to her knees, cause a coup within the Kremlin, emplace quislings who would transfer all of Russia’s resources to NATO control, and then use those resources to enslave China.
Unfortunately, this plan came up against the brick wall of reality…..
The Russians in their entirety, supported their government’s decision to intervene, and the Russian economy proved to be impossible to crack….
This was a “hail mary pass” by NATO… a last ditch effort to avoid the inevitable decline of NATO power due to rapidly declining resource base(s).
It failed….
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 20 2022 1:03 utc | 241
Having started WW II, the English seem to have forgotten who paid for and ended it, despite the traditional perfidy of Albion. See e.g. Link to Operation Unthinkable @ Wikipedia.
Posted by: Hermit | Jun 19 2022 15:22 utc | 49
Operation Pike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pike
Posted by: Olivier | Jun 20 2022 1:05 utc | 242
Dr. George W Oprisko #235
You obviously don’t get it….
Yet……..
Salut your persistence. Perhaps if what you said can be presented as a
petroglyph.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 1:05 utc | 243
bevin #238
:)) That’s what crossed my mind when I read it last night.
Operation Gladio has potential yet.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 1:09 utc | 244
Of course there will be lots of debates if/when Russia begins to attack and occupy territory outside Donbass (have they done so already?)
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 19 2022 18:22 utc | 104
Correction: Russia began to liberate territory outside Donbass (and yes they are doing it – Kherson, Zaporoje, Kharkov…).
No debate necessary. Only actions.
Posted by: Olivier | Jun 20 2022 1:13 utc | 245
Dr. George W Oprisko #239
Unfortunately, this plan [by NATO] came up against the brick wall of reality…..
It failed….
Well said comrade.
Now off to the orchard with me. Enjoy the drinking barflies.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 1:18 utc | 246
Has he or any other senior official spelled out more about 1 and 2, specifically is this directly implying military occupation of ALL of Ukraine including Galicia etc, or is this just saying that at the end of the day, whatever Ukraine is (or perhaps is not) will be demilitarized, denazified and no longer open for NATO exploitation?
Were I the Russian leadership, I would engage “constructive ambiguity” AKA “Maskirovka”.
AND……
Leave you and everyone else guessing….
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 20 2022 1:20 utc | 247
Just scanned all the comments today.
Fucking waste of time. Bye.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 20 2022 1:22 utc | 248
It is not clear at all, to me, that NATO can achieve air superiority in a short period of time, much less air supremacy given the present relative capabilities. Note this isn’t just my view. A number of US military analysts have publicly said the same thing: that it is not clear that NATO or the US could achieve air superiority for multiple weeks at the start of a conflict. Fighting against a peer adversary that can ECM, that can shoot/blind satellites, that can take down drones, that has overlapping fields and layers of air defenses as well as enormous numbers of MANPads etc is a very different situation than taking down Iraqi air defenses.
What is clear to me is that you, and those discussing this matter refuse to consider that the Russians will destroy all NATO airbases during the first few hours using hypersonic missiles with mini-nuke warheads. IE: one missile, one destroyed air base… including pilots, maintenance personnel, planes, fuel, ammo…. etc:…
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Jun 20 2022 1:26 utc | 249
Re “F22 discussion”. Development program born in the mid 1980s. Worked out in 90s, came to maturity early 2000s. What year is it now? RF spent the last 30 years focused for these birds.
Stealth is not the same as invisible. Supersonic jets at altitude in a crowded continental battlefield (vs, say, middle of Pacific) are going to be found anyway. If you’re flying slow and silent, you may as well have sent a specialty drone instead of a high performance jet.
All the same, the concept works in combination with the rest of the air defense system. Makes possible, for example, high altitude flight on the edge of the zone where both-sides have serious air-defense, while in principle the other guy can’t. For that you also need an equally ground-to-air arsenal. If so, then your air defense becomes even more formidable vs low flying attackers, with the high altitude radar platform. Or makes your attacks vs enemy air defense better.
Again, today there are (or should be) drones to more cheaply and safely solve both of those problems.
Transplanting the modern radars and engines into an F15 or Su27 derivative, and doing that in quantity, are the more cost effective solution.
Also none of this helps much against a first class missile attack concept.
Posted by: ptb | Jun 20 2022 1:36 utc | 250
Posted by: Gabriel in Ireland | Jun 19 2022 22:08 utc | 197
“When I read Sanders that new UK general, I can not help but feel that he is representative of a type of delusional thinking which is to be found in the new found bellicosity of the collective West.”
At this point I find everything in ‘the West’ a total clown show and have stopped following any of it. It’s a realm of total cognitive dissonance from top to bottom so by not paying attention I don’t have to experience such harmful rubbish.
I enjoy reading the Russians’ speeches. I enjoy b’s articles here. Half of the Saker is a little strange and stilted, half is great (like Pepe etc.). I am absorbed because what’s happening is the end of the old order and the beginning of a new one. I am beginning to tentatively maybe possibly but not quite be able to entertain the glimmer of a possibility that Eurasia is actually going to crack the great twentieth century nut: how to bring the West back to some sort of collective sanity without the parasite elites blowing up the whole world.
But even though am holding my breath to see, and hence spending too much time here many days, it’s all way above my pay grade. Sometimes I think they are all lying and everything is a huge con. But sometimes, increasingly more of late, am beginning to think that maybe, just maybe, we have a chance to come through this alright. I have never experienced a country in my lifetime evidencing the maturity, sanity, well-reasoned articulation of policy and steadiness in the saddle like how the Russians are manifesting these days. It is slowly dissolving my cynicism.
Of course they had to get through the Tsar’s collapse before and during WWI, then Bolshevik Terror, then Stalinist purges and collectivism famines, then WW II and the gulags, then the long decline, the Yeltsin financial debauchery before they could beging to climb out of what was a long, national nightmare with probably over one hundred million early deaths.
What a journey!!
China also endured several dozens of millions of early deaths last century.
Europe has faced crises but not on that level – except Germany which was almost flattened a couple of times. And most of Europe’s hard times are no longer in many citizens’ living memory any more.
Anyway, we’ll see. But there is a chance that extremely positive changes are around the corner, though they will come about only when great dysfunction obliges most of the captive populations in the West to wake up and insist on something different and better. If Eurasia provides the world with clearly positive workable go-forward examples then perhaps the European and American peoples can demand the same and work to put it together without getting fooled again. Perhaps.
Oprisko 39
Pakistan demonstrations 6/22/22
https://www.rt.com/news/553648-mass-protests-pakistan-khan/
Posted by: Nancy | Jun 20 2022 1:46 utc | 252
Replying to Tom Collins #211:
“The US has been against an independent Russia/Soviet Union since at least WW1, with communism adding an extra level of hatred.”
You reminded me of the equally murderous US attitude to plains Indians (“The only good Indian is a dead Indian”). I think it comes down to us/them racism and associated cultural differences, especially attitudes to ownership of property. Nothing prompted white westerners to a self-righteous frenzy faster than potlatch, the ceremony in which a tribal leader gave away much of his wealth. No other ceremony made it more likely that they would be called “godless heathens” and forced to convert to Christianity for their own good.
If you look at it, nothing the West is doing to Russia now cannot be found in the lethal colonialism inflicted on the plains Indians. “If only” they say “Russiams would agree to stay on their reservations so we can extract resources from sacred land without being attacked.” “They started this by making us break the treaty” etc. As in the Indian Wars, US expansion was endlessly justified and conflicts were managed using the ‘divide and conquer’ tactic among various tribes.
The modern religion of the West is neo-colonialism. But the point is simply that anti-Russianism is nothing new, just an old bigotry and selfishness adapted to new circumstances. And the consequences of failure would in all probability be consistent with other contexts in which the US has “helped” a state to democracy and freedom: fragmentation, poverty and despair. I hope Putin ends up more successful than Tecumseh, although at least he’s not allied with the British.
Posted by: TPaine | Jun 20 2022 1:55 utc | 253
Olivier | Jun 20 2022 1:13 utc | 243
In the south Russia pulled back to the borders of Kherson oblast. In the north Russia pulled back from Kharkiv. That operation appears more designed to secure the Izium bridgehead and pin down some of Ukraine’s military. Also to draw the likes of Kraken out of the city and destroy them, but not to take territory.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 2:01 utc | 254
To understand the motives behind Lithuania’s moves against Kaliningrad-which clearly involve breaching Treaty obligations of the clearest kind- you have to bear in mind that the Lithuanian government does not actually work for Lithuanians or seek their approval, it works for emigres who are largely fascists, the descendants of collaborators.
They have been brought up to believe that, despite all public protestations to the contrary, the people who run NATO reward Nazis. They take unusual risks to prove that, in their hearts they are collaborators just as their grandparents were, and they expect the same approval from the CIA and Foreign Office that their grandparents got.
After all they are risking nothing, if anything happens to Lithuania they will be on the first plane back to Montreal or Chicago or Paris. And their ‘savings’ are safely offshore.
Elections do not concern them: large parts of the electorate are not allowed to vote, any parties favourable to Russia are likely to be banned and they are likely to have total control over the media, while half the adult population lives abroad.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 20 2022 2:06 utc | 255
Anglo-America has been afflicted by four Great Depressions (GD I-IV, arguably, V in progress), four “Great Awakenings” (arguably, V in progress), and four “red scares” since 1700.
I. Paris Commune (1871) which coincided with the GD II, or “Long Depression”.
Summary: The Impact of the Paris Commune in the United States”
II. Bolshevik Revolution (Roger and Karlofi have that covered) – resulting in WWI hysteria on the home-front until GDIII, epitomized by the Comstock inspectors, origin of the FBI, and enactment of the second ALIEN sedition and Espionage Act
III. HUAC/House Internal Security Committee (1938-1975) purges (1938-1950)- domestic op to quash organized labor, instituted and chaired by Martin Dies (D-TX) (1938-1944) the first in a long line of Dixicrats;
good read: Black Struggle, Red Scare
“Cold War” Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security (1951-1977)/ Foreign Relation Commitee thereafter – international mission to quash socialist governments raised by post-WWII, post-colonial independence presumed to be aided by USSR and PRC, epitomized by the “domino theory” of military interventions
good read: Many are the Crimes
IV. 2000 to present – int’l-domestic mission to quash revnants of organized labor in USA, “Marxist” revolutions opposed to US-client fascists, and any person euphemistically labeled “anti-American or “communist sympathizers” (notably DJT, Russiagate defendant) converging at the moment on PUTIN’s “world war III”
So. McCarthism and McCarthyite is quite a misnomer for the anticommunist project that has preoccupied US American way of life for the past century.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 20 2022 2:07 utc | 256
“How much value stealth has going forward is an interesting question.”
Stealth technology has always been a total scam. I worked at Lockheed in the 80s when they were making the F117 and the ‘mission planner’ was a friend of mine. The plane was subsonic, didn’t have any weapons (they would compromise the ‘stealthiness’, and wasn’t maneuverable (it carried bombs !) The analyst called it a ‘flying coffin’. What is stealthiness anyhow? It is the ability to avoid radar. But there are different types of radar, short range targeting radar, and long range tracking radar, with different wavelengths. The F117 was stealthy for targeting radars, but not tracking radars. The F117 was a totally useless plane and my guess is it was never flown without a fighter escort. Even so, one or two managed to get hit by anti-aircraft missiles.
The whole idea of stealthy fighters was shaky from the start, and as for stealthy bombers, the whole concept is preposterous on its face (as missiles do it better).
Of course, back then, I never thought we’d see WW II type warfare again, and I guess we are now, but only on the ground. Why the Russians aren’t using their air force is a mystery to me.
@ Saggy | Jun 20 2022 2:10 utc | 255
Why the Russians aren’t using their air force is a mystery to me.
Other readers have noted that Russia on battle concept has a different strategy from US/UK, that is battle on the ground not in/from the air. We know that attack from an air force has been over-rated. Precision missiles are better.
Posted by: d | Jun 20 2022 2:21 utc | 258
And now the contest is going to be about Africa
Posted by: bevin | Jun 20 2022 1:00 utc | 236
again.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 20 2022 2:25 utc | 259
@ Saggy | Jun 20 2022 2:10 utc | 255 who asks
”
Why the Russians aren’t using their air force is a mystery to me.
”
My take is that Russia sees this Ukraine SMO as a warm up to the real bully takedown and exposing the minimum of your forces is just prudent. How far will the crazies of dying empire push Russia remains to be seen but already the damage to the Ukraine and mercenary forces and weapons without much air force engagement is significant and not unnoticed by empire military.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 20 2022 2:26 utc | 260
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 20 2022 1:45 utc | 249
Add White Russians. You seem to me a sympathetic candidate.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 20 2022 2:35 utc | 261
@ TPaine | Jun 20 2022 1:55 utc | 251
But the point is simply that anti-Russianism is nothing new, just an old bigotry and selfishness adapted to new circumstances.
…new circumstances
The US security state needs to justify its military occupation of Europe backed by a huge budget and a half-million person army, against a fabricated threat against the US, and Russia fills the bill.
It’s all about the bucks. news report. . .
Senate Armed Services panel goes big with new defense budget . .The $858 billion proposed for national security in the next fiscal year would be a roughly 10 percent increase.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 20 2022 2:37 utc | 262
This is it — the odds have changed /s
news report
Australia sends first four M113A4 APCs to Ukraine. The first four M113AS4 armored personnel carriers handed over to Ukraine by the Australian government have left the RAAF Base Amberley. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 20 2022 2:47 utc | 263
S-70: Russia’s Stealth Drone Looks Like a Powerhouse
A future air war will be fought with these things managed by AI possibly.
I actually saw a similarly shaped massive drone along with a bunch of coworkers in Northern California last week. It appeared to be undergoing some type of testing possibly for radar signature. It was hovering over a waterway for quite a long time. Probably out of Beale Air force Base. I have seen some pretty big drones around Beale in times past.
Russia is very intensely probing the F-35 with EW…
GPS Jammed: Russia Is Messing with America’s F-35s
Russian electronic warfare systems attacked British F-35 for the first time
There is discussion of whether the crashes of the F-35’s were due to EW from both Russia and China. There are some many links with these claims I will not add them in. I see nothing from the DOD on this topic.
Everything nowadays is on some type of desktop, app, or screen system and vulnerable…
The United States accused Russia of taking over control of the F-35 fighter
Do not know if these claims are true but I suspect there may be some truth in them. How the DOD redirects the F-35 program in the future may be a clue. Clearly KISS was abandoned in its development. KISS does not provide much of a rake off.
Posted by: circumspect | Jun 20 2022 2:57 utc | 264
@ my 261
clarification: the M113A4 is a medical evacuation vehicle now being phased out of US service.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 20 2022 3:03 utc | 265
@ circumspect | Jun 20 2022 2:57 utc | 262
GPS Jammed: Russia Is Messing with America’s F-35s . .Russian electronic warfare systems attacked British F-35 for the first time
Feb 9, 2015 — Admiral Jonathan Greenert, Chief of Naval Operations: “You can only go so fast, and you know that stealth may be overrated. … Let’s face it, if something moves fast through the air, disrupts molecules and puts out heat — I don’t care how cool the engine can be [and it’s not cool], it’s going to be detectable. You get my point.”
. . .and the U.S. Navy put great stock in electronic warfare aircraft, while dragging its feet on F-35.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 20 2022 3:11 utc | 266
Posted by: Moabeobachter | Jun 19 2022 20:42 utc | 165
The USAF is not afraid of the Russian Air Force, nor their air defences.
A most interesting comment.
As if that was true?
Reality in the real world is very cruel.
The Korean Air War. The corrected non fictional air to air combat ratio F-86 vrs MIG-15 is basically unity. The loss rate all other allied combat aircraft in daylight hours was much higher. The Allied bombers switched to the much safer night bombing. On a side note. The bombs dropped by the USSA aircraft in Korea. Around 50% failed to detonate………… Which is why Germany today is still finding WW2 leftovers.
During ‘Cold War 1.0’ . Approximately 300 USSAF various types recon planes were shot down over the former Soviet territories. In one incident a brand new recon RB47J. Flew over the Baltic states. With most internal systems degraded or non operational. It was pure Irish luck the crew members survived an emergency landing in the UK. That aircraft never flew again.
In 1991, one SR71A cruising at MACH 2.8 was intercepted over the Baltic Sea. By two MIG-31B’s . Just cruising along at the same altitude with full combat load. The SR71A recon pilot wisely chose fly back to home base in California…………….
The loss of two F-117’s should have dispelled the myth of stealth aircraft. Shot down over by Serbia .
The only viable method is to use a larger commercial plane as a radar shadow. This method is used daily by Israel. To attack Syria on a daily basis. To volley fire all long range standoff missiles. In the hope, one or two may get through………..
The Russian capital Moskva. Has multiple ABM air defense rings with better quality radar detection. For modern jet combat aircraft with limited range stand off missiles. That is a one way fight ticket even if one were flying in the F-22……
One could say the known existing majority of aircraft in daily use by the USSAF. Should be considered within 95% certainty as flying widow coffins. Should they choose to fly without flight plans over Russian airspace. ‘DJT’ ripped up the “Open Skies Treaty”. What an……
If a BE-50 with escorts can easily detect and track an old SU-24 flying at max low level treetop height. Any missile armed USSAF drone. Detection and shoot down would be child’s play.
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On |
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 20 2022 3:19 utc | 267
@39
Dr.Oprisko says that one of the Russia’s demands is: “3. Return of NATO to it’s pre 1979 borders.”
In my understanding this is misleading or plain wrong statement. Russians demand as of Dec.17, 2021 do not say that. See link below
https://tass.com/politics/1377261?utm_source=news.antiwar.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=news.antiwar.com&utm_referrer=news.antiwar.com
Posted by: fanto | Jun 20 2022 3:35 utc | 268
Add White Russians. You seem to me a sympathetic candidate.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 20 2022 2:35 utc | 259
Please don’t drag me into your troubled world!
fanto | Jun 20 2022 3:35 utc | 266
“Article 4
The Russian Federation and all the Parties that were member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as of 27 May 1997, respectively, shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other States in Europe in addition to the forces stationed on that territory as of 27 May 1997. With the consent of all the Parties such deployments can take place in exceptional cases to eliminate a threat to security of one or more Parties.”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 3:52 utc | 270
Those crazy North AMerikans money launderers, gun and drug runners of Miami. A City of 1 million souls complete with over forty major and minor banks are buying guns to ship to country 404.
USSA reject weapons to be resold on the CIA/ATF sponsored international gun running open market in………..
Stupid is as stupid does
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 20 2022 4:13 utc | 271
To saggy@23, “how will it end”, and talking about martyanov comments on mearsheimer.
I commented on mearsheimer before reading martyanov today. He stated exactly what I knew about this Jewish ‘ liberal’. Mearsheimer and walthammer, for years paid Jewish lip service to Palestinian destruction, knowing fully well that nothing was going to change. It was just to put a soft face on some Jews.
They never fooled me, for I see all the games. This man is a rabid, racist hater of china, just like Chomsky, Kissinger and all the rest of them.
They hate the fact that their predatory, parasitical financial mafia system on Russia in the 1990’s did not work. Putin managed to kick most of them out.
So the plea today is not just to negotiated with hated Russia,because they have lost, but to attack the yellow man, who they could never infiltrate with their physicality.
To keep the evil Zionist world control afloat, as their financial pyramid scheme is disintegrating, at the expense of the entire world, who were bullied into their pirate schemes.
Res@62, martyanov actually says the most accurate military things, for i back it up with a number of other sites. I must confess that none of them are MSM, even though I browse their headlines to see the latest lies.
Martyanov might not be religious but so am I. But the communists in Russia just want to bomb us all to hell and be done with it.
MOAObserver
Re F22s
I recall that Hurricane Michael, on 12 October 2018, ripped through hangars at Tyndall AF base in Georgia
and irremediably damaged 30+ F22s that were stored inside them.
So these plus the 20 that were to be scrapped have made a big dent in the F22 arsenal.
These days the US would rather produce an upgraded F15 version as the alternative to the lack of F22s and the
uselessness of the F35.
Without air superiority or dominance, the US Forces are in a real bind.
Posted by: CarlD | Jun 20 2022 4:47 utc | 273
=> Ed Nelson | Jun 19 2022 21:05 utc | 175
You say:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
Second, your statement if you are anti-capitalist but not a socialist what are you? As far as I know, there is no “third” way. Capitalism, Socialism, Feudalism and Slavery are more than just economic systems, these terms tell you what class rules this or that state, it is the content of the state, and these four (or some mixture of these four) are the only classes known to humanity. So, my question is Mr. Blue, if you are anti-capitalist, as I am, then which of the other three state class contents do you propose to replace capitalism?
\\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obviously formal education has replaced organized religion as the world’s most corrupt institution. So many are now fully institutionalized.
First of all, downsize the rich. If any individual comes into the possession of greater than, say $5,000,000 in today’s dollars, take half of it away. Then stop having industries being owned by private corporations. Each town or consortium of towns should own a productional industry. And those industries should be controlled by local officials who are elected by the simple hedge voting method, with no automation, just hand counted paper ballots. And those industries may never be sold, except occasionally to other elected-official communities. No central planning required. And no rich sociopaths either.
Posted by: RKJoyce | Jun 20 2022 4:53 utc | 274
The NATO “new force model” being incubated may include the assignment of troops to eastern Europe but not bases because they (should) know it’s wrong. We’ll see.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 20 2022 4:54 utc | 275
It seems RSH is on hiatus so wondering if other barflies will report the Russian daily briefing numbers for the SMO that RSH did….I am spoiled by the availability he provided of that information and am not motivated to provide such myself at this time……TIA
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 20 2022 4:56 utc | 276
From the MoD on Telegram,
Over 50 AFU generals and officers have been eliminated.💥 Kalibr high-precision long-distance sea-based missiles were launched at a command post of the Ukrainian troops near the village of Shirokaya Dacha (Dnepropetrovsk region) at the moment when there was being held a working meeting of the commanders of Aleksandriya operational-strategic group. The attack has resulted in eliminating more than 50 generals and officers of the AFU, including those of the General Staff, the Kakhovka group, airborne assault troops and units that operate towards Nikolayev and Zaporozhye.
❗️ Big losses of the AFU in manpower force the Ukrainian command to involve unprepared personnel in combats, despite their lack of necessary skills in using armament and military equipment. 2 Su-25 assault fighters of the Ukrainian Air Force launched an attack at the positions of its units near Shirokoye (Dnepropetrovsk region).
💥 Kalibr high-precision long-distance missiles destroyed 10 M777 155-mm howitzers and up to 20 armoured combat vehicles delivered by the West to the Kiev regime over the past 10 days that were located in a transformer plant in Nikolaev.
📊In total, 207 airplanes and 132 helicopters, 1,249 unmanned aerial vehicles, 344 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,683 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 562 combat vehicles equipped with multiple rocket-launching systems, 2,043 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 3,715 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.
These are the MoD publications of 19 JUne 2022.Sunday
Posted by: CarlD | Jun 20 2022 5:08 utc | 277
Rich sociopaths are extremely good at convincing poor yokels the blow each other up! It’s really quite amazing.
Posted by: RKJoyce | Jun 20 2022 5:13 utc | 278
To RkJoyce, that is exactly what China is doing.
To psychohistorian, Russia launched missiles into an armed camp of Ukrainian generals and officers killing 50 generals, as so the claim is. Obviously, they recieve on the ground information that the west could never stop. 2 Ukrainian aircraft bombed their own position, and numerous other drones and soldiers, artillery and fuel depot’s taken out.
On the Ukraine side, shelling of civilian areas continues.
In response to
”
These are the MoD publications of 19 JUne 2022.Sunday
Posted by: CarlD | Jun 20 2022 5:08 utc | 275
”
Thanks for that update. I was interested to see confirmation of the 50+ AFU general kill…what percentage of military hierarchy is that?
I keep thinking that Russia wants to bring this SMO to a conclusion before NATO can get seriously involved…more than they are now. Killing the AFU generals may not be shock and awe but it seems close.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 20 2022 5:32 utc | 280
psychohistorian | Jun 20 2022 5:32 utc | 278 Thanks for that update. I was interested to see confirmation of the 50+ AFU general kill…what percentage of military hierarchy is that?
All of the southern military command apparently. Will be a few headless chickens sporting swastikas on the southern frontlines for a bit. Be interesting to know if the command for the Avdeevka are were included in that lot. I suspect they would be. A little retribution for the recent terrorist shelling of Donetsk city. Avdeevka also took a hammering from concentrated artillery and sustained airstrikes. The clowns may have to reconsider their ideas on hitting civilian targets.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 5:47 utc | 281
to Psychohistorian 278
It will depend on how many brigades are involved
as HQ are organized, there would be a high ranking General, say a Lieutenant General.
Under him, two Major Generals, then four brigadier Generals,8 generals, the rest would be colonels
Lt Colonels and intelligence majors.
The troops would be left with lower echelon commanders, like captains at company level and
lieutenants at platoon level.
The chain of command would be severely disrupted as the officers with their troops would be bereft of
tactical directives. more like a beheaded chicken.
Of course, until the center command appoints replacements, that still have to assess and plan according to
the situation. At least two days of incapacitation for the troops.
Posted by: CarlD | Jun 20 2022 5:48 utc | 282
psychohistorian | Jun 20 2022 4:56 utc | 274
Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine (19.06.2022)
Part 1 (see Part 2)
◽ ️ The offensive in the Severodonetsk direction is developing successfully. Units of the People’s Militia of the Luhansk People’s Republic, with the support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, liberated the village of Metelkino.
◽️ Some units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, due to the low moral and psychological state, lack of ammunition and lack of support, leave the combat area.. Thus, a platoon of the 1st company of the 1st battalion of the 57th motorized Infantry Brigade, defending in the area of Lisichansk, abandoned heavy weapons and left their positions.
◽️ The armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue to strike at military facilities on the territory of Ukraine.
💥 Over the past 24 hours, high-precision long-range sea-based Kalibr missiles struck the command post of the Ukrainian troops near the village of Shirokaya Dacha, Dnipropetrovsk region, at 12: 30 p.m., while a working meeting of the command staff of the operational-strategic group of troops “Alexandria”was being held there.
❗️ As a result of the strike , more than 50 generals and officers of the ArmedForces of Ukraine were killed, including the General Staff, the command of the Kakhovka group of troops, the airborne assault troops and formations operating in the Mykolaiv and Zaporizhia directions.
◽️ At 20.20, high-precision long-range Kalibr missiles destroyed ten 155-mm M777 howitzers and up to 20 armored combat vehiclesdelivered by the West to the Kiev regime over the past 10 days on the territory of the transformer plant in the city of Nikolaev.
💥 At 19: 20, high-precision air-launched missiles hit an echelon with personnel, weapons and military equipment of the 1st battalion of the 14th separate mechanized brigade, which arrived from the city of Vladimir-Volynsky in the combat zone in the Donbas.
◽️ As a result of the strike on the place of unloading of the train near the Gubinikha railway station in the Dnipropetrovsk region, more than 100 soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 30 tanks and armored combat vehicles were destroyed.
◽ ️ At 02.05 in the area of the village of Selidovo of the Donetsk People’s Republic , manpower and military equipment were damaged 56th Motorized Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Up to 200 militants were destroyed, including foreign mercenaries who were part of this brigade, as well as two Grad multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles, 10 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
◽️ As part of the counter-battery fight in the Donetsk direction, seven MLRS Grad platoons and an artillery platoon were defeated in firing positions.
💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation destroyed four warehouses with rocket and artillery weapons and artillery ammunition in the areas of Maksimilianovka, Avdiivka, Zelyonoe Pole and Georgiyivka settlements of the Donetsk People’s Republic, as well as a Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system launcher in the Seversk area of the Luhansk People’s Republic.
💥 Rocket troops and artillery hit 22 command posts, 48 artillery units in firing positions, manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 123 districts.
◽️ A strike by the Iskander operational-tactical missile system on the territory of the Kharkiv tank repair plant destroyed two launchers of the Uragan multiple launch rocket system.
◽ ️ The Ukrainian armed forces are suffering significant losses from counter-battery warfare. Thus, a serviceman of the 22nd motorized infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, captured near the village of Peremoga, said that over the past 10 days in the artillery units operating in the Kharkiv direction, losses amounted to 380 people, including 90 – irretrievable.
Part 2 (see Part 1)
💥 Over 400 nationalists, 10 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 11 field artillery pieces, 11 multiple launch rocket launchers and 28 special vehicles were destroyed during the day as a result of air strikes, rocket forces and artillery.
💥 The Russian Air Defense forces shot down a Su-25 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Forces in the Chervonnaya Dolina area of the Mykolaiv region during the day.
◽️ Also Eight Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down in the areas of Zavody, Chervonyi Shakhter, Dementievka, Glubokoe in Kharkiv region, Krynitsa in Kherson region, Popasna in Luhansk People’s Republic and in the area of Zmeiny Island.
◽️ In addition, three Tochka-U tactical missiles were intercepted in the Novozvanivka and Novoaleksandrivka districts of the Luhansk People’s Republic, and two Uragan multiple launch rocket system shells were intercepted in the areas of the settlements of Bolshye Prokhody in the Kharkiv region and Chervonnaya Dolina in the Mykolaiv region.
📊 Total since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed: 207 aircraft, 132 helicopters, 1,249 unmanned aerial vehicles, 344 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,683 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 562 multiple launch rocket vehicles, 2,043 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 3,715 units of special military vehicles.
❗️ Heavy losses in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine force the Ukrainian command to throw into battle untrained personnel who lack the necessary skills in handling weapons and military equipment.
◽️ So, at 13.30 A pair of Su-25 attack aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force attacked the positions of their units near the settlement of Shiroke, Dnipropetrovsk region.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 6:02 utc | 283
psychohistorian
Meant to hit preview and hit post instead on that last one. That is the latest clobber sheet dated 19th. (two posts on telegram)
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 6:05 utc | 284
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 19 2022 22:01 utc | 193
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It is the standard way the western MSM writes something, sort of giving info without giving the full info or the correct correct info.
It is the Caspian Higher Naval Red Banner School, not an academy. In Russian Uchilishcha (Училища) school. That type of schools don’t give degrees, but could issue technical training certificates.
All border security in the USSR was under/owned by the KGB. So, all those specialty schools also were under KGB, which provided personnel for the border troops. Navigator is such a big word, but they need navigators for even a small boat.
“I finished my service by 1990 due to health problems and in 1991 was left not only without any pension, for which I didn’t have enough service census, but without a country when the USSR collapsed.”
The above tells something. As the USSR collapsed, the border guards collapsed in the Caspian Sea, The next country to Azerbaijan was Chechnya. He couldn’t get a salary/pension from a non-existing USSR border guards in a foreign country, Azerbaijan. If he is a loyal Russian, then he can’t say, he was without a country. Not everyone ran away to the US, or to any other country, when the country was in need…of patriots.
“I, being a decent English speaker, opened a commodities business with the US…”
Oh, we all know the “business” in those infamous 90s…😏
Posted by: ostro | Jun 20 2022 6:20 utc | 285
ostro | Jun 20 2022 6:20 utc | 283
When it comes to Russian military and its weapons systems, its way of making war, he provides a perspective no other English language publication provides. I don’t always agree with his views on some subjects.
What has come from many sources, and I believe it goes right up to the current Russian leadership – is that in the years prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union, many believed it was only ideology standing between them and the US.
Martyanov posted this some time ago. Take a look at the crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W7wqQwa-TU
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 6:35 utc | 286
Posted by: Cabeman | Jun 19 2022 13:10 utc | 2
I suggest you read Thierry Meyssan over at voltairenet.org since he does – but it is not The Wolfowitz Doctrine as such – it is Straussian – just like Kagan, Wolfowitz and Perle are acolytes of Leo Strauss.
It is a self-regarding Israel-First Fan Club.
You might ask why the current Inspector-General of the Luftwaffe has been so assiduous in coordinating Israeli and German airforce activities and now speaks of German use of nuclear weapons against Russia – not even 22 June !
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 20 2022 6:40 utc | 287
“And as a commonwealth country, whose constitution was established on the Magna Carta,
Obviously not Canada then !
Canadian “Constitution” is premised on British North America Act 1867 and subsequent Acts in UK Parliament.
Magna Carta sounds so wonderful. Which one are you thinking of ? King John’s 1215 Magna Carta was abrogated by both parties and cancelled by Pope Pius II.
Subsequent Magna Cartas – I suppose you think of 1297 version – most of it was repealed by Acts of Parliament in London and only 3 Clauses remain in force today. Indeed the original had no Clauses as it was one long document without paragraphs.
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 20 2022 6:45 utc | 288
Putin: From phantom entities to real values…
That’s not OT for Ukraine.
France, home of human rights and moral lessons, crashing after 6 months of electoral futility.
The political crisis in France is social. It is social because it is economic and financial . It’s so as the result of a tectonic tremor while the old world [the imperial West] is on a plate being subjugated by the plates of the new world.
I need this day to enlighten you and detail, if there is such a wish expressed.
But Putin had not waited to enlighten us on what was really going on.
“European politicians have landed a heavy blow on their economies. They did it themselves, with their own hands,”
“bureaucratic elites are dancing to someone else’s tune, accepting everything that their superiors tell them, harming their own population, their own economy and their own business.”
“sanctions on Russia have exacerbated problems in the countries that initiated them as the European Union’s direct calculable losses alone may exceed $400 bln in the coming year.”
“This is the price of decisions detached from reality and contradicting common sense.”
“Crucial business concepts such as business reputation, inviolability of property, confidence in global currencies have been seriously undermined.”
Western elites are largely “clinging to ghosts of the past,”
“International institutions are collapsing and security guarantees are being devalued.”
“Only strong and sovereign states can have a say in this emerging world order”
“It’s wrong to think that one can, so to say, wait it out in a time of tumultuous change, that everything will be back to what it used to be and everything will be the same. It will not!”.
As President Vladimir Putin said, answering to questions during the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum’s plenary session on Friday.
“Always, when making any decision, you need to identify the main thing. What is the main thing for us? To be independent, sovereign and ensure development for the future, now and for future generations.
80% of French concern electorate is not buying the imperial “rules based order”. Only 20% show up to vote for Macron et al. Even, 37% of those who voted Macron, don’t vote for its party 2 months later.
80% of French are now experiencing the dark side of the Empire and can’t afford “normal American way of life” for them and their children, even with as much helicopter money as possible. 80% of French will soon try to find an emergency exit.
Macron et al., too.
Sometimes sorry for my english, I’m tired..
Posted by: La Bastille | Jun 20 2022 7:39 utc | 289
Let’s say of the 180 F22s only 50 are available to enforce a no fly zone.
That is still enough to knock any Russian place out of the sky at will. They are phenomenal machines. They are highly resistant to air defence.
Russia had a lost decade or even longer and the US were not resting on their laurels.
The USAF is not afraid of the Russian Air Force, nor their air defences.
Posted by: Moabeobachter | Jun 19 2022 20:42 utc | 165
I can’t find the original article on Business Insidet but this post sums it up nicely:
An Instagram account claiming to be of a retired Russian pilot of an Su-35, Russia’s top jet fighter, posted a picture purportedly of a US F-22 Raptor stealth jet flying above Syria, suggesting it was evidence that his older, bigger jet could outflank it.
The picture appears to show an F-22 in flight on what looks broadly like an image produced by an infrared search and track (IRST) system, which the Su-35 houses in its nose-cone area to look for heat, not radar cross section, potentially helping it find stealth aircraft at close ranges.
The author of the post claimed to have spotted the F-22, which has all-aspect stealth and is virtually invisible to traditional radars, during combat operations in Syria.
After describing at length how these encounters usually go — there are dedicated lines of communication used to avoid conflict between Russia and the US as they operate in close proximity over Syria — the author claimed to have locked onto the F-22.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-trending/businessinsidercom-syria/
Posted by: Down South | Jun 20 2022 7:43 utc | 290
RKJoyce | Jun 20 2022 4:53 utc | 272
I’m definitely sympathetic to the concept of downsizing the rich and also to the localising of production. Having said that, I am too much of a pragmatist to like your ideologically driven plan.
Your $5,000,000 cap is far too small for individual innovation in the modern world and, like it or not, a great deal of innovation comes from individuals. There is also the issue of incentive, why would anyone who has $4,999,999 acquire that extra $1 if that means they will end up with $2,500,000?
I would put the cap on inherited wealth. I believe that a well functioning society has to be a meritocracy and that a meritocratic society needs equality of opportunity. My proposed cap on inherited wealth could be quite large, just not so much that it confers a significant amount of political power. The inheritance of political power is one of the biggest contributing factors to societal degeneration. Assets in excess of the inheritance cap would be acquired by the government, auctioned off and the proceeds used to reduce the income tax burden.
Posted by: MarkU | Jun 20 2022 7:52 utc | 291
Your $5,000,000 cap is far too small for individual innovation in the modern world and … by: MarkU | Jun 20 2022 7:52 utc | 289
—
Why should personal wealth be a barrier to innovation and why should amassing wealth be a motivator?a
Maybe there is a better way to distribute resources than private property.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 20 2022 8:16 utc | 292
It takes iron nerves to do this trick
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7685625.html
Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 20 2022 8:23 utc | 293
I thought this was a joke
https://twitter.com/mallen_2010/status/1538328675850010624
Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 20 2022 8:42 utc | 294
€Tom_12 | Jun 20 2022 8:42 utc | 292
Maybe a hoax. I looked at theatlantic.com but did not find it.
Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 20 2022 8:57 utc | 295
Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 20 2022 8:57 utc | 293
That was my first thought but I was too lazy to look. Thanks for the research 🙂
Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 20 2022 9:14 utc | 296
From IntelSlava
🇷🇺🇰🇿⚡Russia imposed restrictions on the shipment of Kazakh oil in response to Kazakhstan blocking 1,700 Russian wagons with coal
It is reported that coal remained in Kazakhstan due to European anti-Russian sanctions. In turn, oil from the republic was exported to Europe through the port of Novorossiysk, in which mines from the times of the Great Patriotic War were suddenly discovered. The decontamination works will last at least until the end of the month.
Posted by: Down South | Jun 20 2022 9:22 utc | 297
From IntelSlava
🇮🇹⚡Italian government is considering imposing a state of emergency due to limited gas supplies from Russia
Posted by: Down South | Jun 20 2022 9:24 utc | 298
Peter AU1 #281
As a result of the strike , more than 50 generals and officers of the ArmedForces of Ukraine were killed, including the General Staff, the command of the Kakhovka group of troops, the airborne assault troops and formations operating in the Mykolaiv and Zaporizhia directions.
Thank you.
That is what I consider to be close to a game changer. Good de-nazifying Russian comrades. More of it.
I had picked that attack up in Military Summary channel earlier today but the details of the scale of the demised nazi gang bosses was not revealed.
Russian intel must be mighty pleased.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 20 2022 9:42 utc | 299
When it comes to Russian military and its weapons systems, its way of making war, he provides a perspective no other English language publication provides.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 20 2022 6:35 utc | 284
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Sure, from a guy, who had left Azerbaijan, because he didn’t have a country anymore…and that in those infamous 90s…And, left Azerbaijan to the US, but not to Mother Russia…the military “knowledge” from books, rather than from actual “doing” it. Ever heard of him in any mainstream Russian media?
All he does is attack and criticize the people, who actually stayed back and served in the Soviet and then Russian military, intelligence and the government.
Posted by: ostro | Jun 20 2022 9:57 utc | 300