@91 the pessimist
I think the unstated understanding is that Odessa and Kharkov are a ways down the road, and in any case would go one at a time, if at all.
Adding my own controversial opinion here, I think that after the UA forces terrorizing DNR are expelled from Donbas, and a convincing amount of ‘demilitarization’ will be done, then Moscow would see a potential stopping point. A negotiated settlement or ceasefire freezing the lines would then be an acceptable alternative to the tradeoffs that both those important but obviously expensive objectives would involve. Obviously much depends on where Kiev’s sponsors are at, when the time comes to make those decisions.

Posted by: ptb | Jun 16 2022 21:18 utc | 104

Ostro @94
My understanding is that even Medvedev and Putin looked things differently along the way. For example, its was reported that Medvedev was rather western oriented before his presidency. Changing his ways onle later. Only time will tell what he will turn into once its his time, if it will be. Certainly, he is not Putin.
I would not agree that your account on Jeltsin simply picking up Putin as his follower was that simple. There was much more there, at least if it is to believe multiple books with statements from the inner circle on that history.
Anyways, maybe this is getting out of topic of Ukraine, so better to continue on the other thread.

Posted by: Tigger | Jun 16 2022 21:24 utc | 106

Posted by: Paco | Jun 16 2022 21:17 utc | 102
——————————————–
Do you read about Medvedev, or listen to him, or read his posts/speeches in Russian?

Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2022 21:25 utc | 108

> 6. The hope was expressed for the completion of the NWO by the end of 2022. There are serious doubts that the war will end in 2022.
Good.
Blitzkrieg is European forte, war of attrition is ours.
I was saying for some weeks now, that for Russia it would be good to stretch the war until approx. April next year, than ask post-EU countries how they like their winters.

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 16 2022 21:29 utc | 110

Posted by: Tigger | Jun 16 2022 21:24 utc | 105
———————
Would you call someone, who live in Shanghai a “western-oriented?” Thatis, if you have been to Shanghai…
Would you call someone living in say, Orenburg, western-oriented? Orenburg is in the Urals, by the way.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2022 21:31 utc | 112

The support that Russians extend to Putin is not so much personal, but it is before all, support for his policies for making Russia strong, independent and proud.
Posted by: Pagan | Jun 16 2022 21:27 utc | 108
—————————————————
Exactly!!!

Posted by: ostro | Jun 16 2022 21:33 utc | 114

Comment from https://t.me/milinfolive Telegram channel about Ukraine and Russian use of drones…

A rather interesting article was published in a Ukrainian magazine about the use of drones (including civilian ones) in this conflict. An intelligence officer from the Lviv region, who is directly at the front, and one of the members of the Ukrainian NPO Aerorazvedka, which collects and sends civilian copters to the Ukrainian military, express their opinion on this matter.
Particularly noteworthy was a comment about the problems faced by both the Ukrainian militants themselves and the drones. The first problem was that UAVs are shot down in huge numbers: “They are lost in very large numbers – some units lose several quadcopters a day. Because the Russian systems of electronic warfare (EW) and electronic intelligence (REW) are working … “.
The second problem – more likely for the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a whole – was the massive use of civilian drones by the RF Armed Forces: “if at the beginning of the invasion they (Russians) flew en masse on their military Orlan-10 UAVs, now the Russians conventional civilian drones, such as Chinese DJI, are also increasingly being used. Moreover, they use it the same way as we do, and they use it quite effectively, ”says Mikhail from Aerorazvedka.
At the end of the article, the authors rightly note that the importance of civilian UAVs can hardly be overestimated – the damage that an ordinary civilian quadrocopter causes when a target is detected and artillery is aimed more than pays for both its cost and its potential loss.
Well, we’ll add on our own behalf that even the enemy began to complain about the efficiency of small copters in the hands of the RF Armed Forces, while various experts come out on TV or in some telegram channels, demanding these drones be banned and taken away. undefined

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2022 21:42 utc | 116

Here Ostro, for the pleasure of the bar flies translate in good English this saying from Lavrov during the NTV interview, some of the channels I visit are having a good laugh with it:
“Я бы дал ей членство в член”
I would give her (Ukraine) membership in the member.

Posted by: Paco | Jun 16 2022 21:50 utc | 118

Pagan @108
I have read about the details that you describe from many sources, and I agree with your analysis. I have not fallen to any myths, I just did not see it important to get into details of powerplay. Powerplay happens no matter who controls it. Putin was the name that pulled out of the latest powerplay.
My point is that the same way like the family at the time controls what happens in Russia, or who is to be nominated as the face of leader, the same used to happen of course in sovereign states of Europe. Along the time, those families in Europe went way over their heads and thats why many formerly sovereign states of Europe are the way they are today. I do not think “deep state” existed in European sovereign states before they were forced to join EU. Before that it was mainly similar power setting than in Russia.
I do not mean that Russian people were to fall “under western beads”. It did not take people’s voice to get Putin into power, and it wont take it in future either. People may support or disapprove but currently there is de facto no mechanism for people to say – neither in the west or in Russia. As you say, there are other voices to put leaders into their position in Russia, and until now, none of them has been taken out of that position by people’s voice (Bolshevik revolution does not count as it was foreign operation).

Posted by: Tigger | Jun 16 2022 21:58 utc | 120

Posted by: Paco | Jun 16 2022 21:50 utc | 117

Here Ostro, for the pleasure of the bar flies translate in good English this saying from Lavrov during the NTV interview, some of the channels I visit are having a good laugh with it:
“Я бы дал ей членство в член”
I would give her (Ukraine) membership in the member.

I’m not Ostro, but let me note that the humor here is in the double sense of the last word. It can be translated as a member or as a penis.

Posted by: AndrVU | Jun 16 2022 22:10 utc | 122

Posted by: MarkU | Jun 16 2022 17:21 utc | 41
“Sorry, you probably didn’t deserve that but I am so bored with seeing that question asked and answered over and over again that I started channelling RSH.”
As well you should, especially with Et Tu, who is a concern troll.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2022 22:14 utc | 124

Paco @117–
I’ve just published an article from that interview since Lavrov provides further evidence of Europe’s Colonization by the Outlaw US Empire. Indeed, the entire interview was very good thanks to it not being adversarial and having a real, well-informed journalist asking the questions for a change. Here’s what I wrote:
Lavrov on Europe’s Colonization by the Outlaw US Empire
In his interview with NTV today, Lavrov was asked a multipart question that allowed him to speak about the current nature of relations between the Outlaw US Empire, the EU, and the wider world that provides further backing for the conclusion that Dr. Hudson, myself, and others have reached about the very sorry state of the EU. All emphasis is mine:

Question: Now there is an event (as the organizers persistently reminded me) that is an alternative to Davos in terms of the level of problems discussed.
I would like to start with the “hottest”. It seems that the West is now trying to find a way out of the Ukrainian situation. Judging by European statistics, fewer and fewer people there support sanctions and sanctions pressure, because they are beginning to suffer from the “boomerang”. On the other hand, there are Americans and Britons who insist on continuing the war “until victorious.” The way out of the situation can be different. Now Kiev says that the negotiating position is too weak, as they are trying to move them to negotiations. They would like to strengthen this position.
Today O.Scholz, E.Macron and M.Draghi came to Kyiv and met with V.A.Zelensky. Before the meeting, they said that they would persuade him to return to negotiations. The last time the Europeans also came, the whole process stalled in our country. On the other hand, now Kiev is preparing to get really heavy weapons and calls it a turning point, strengthening its negotiating positions.
In your opinion, is this not the receipt of real heavy weapons and people trained already trained a provocation that will turn the situation into a dangerous non-negotiating direction?
Sergey Lavrov: You have raised many issues. I cannot but comment on some of the points.
First, don’t offend SPIEF by comparing it to Davos. Davos has long degenerated into a structure that promotes exclusively the interests of the West. They have already stopped pretending that Davos provides a platform for dialogue between all key players. Secondly, you said that the West thinks about how to solve its problems and it does not care about the problems of others. It’s more complicated than that. It solves the problem for the United States, which led the movement and declared itself the master of the world (this is a unipolar world order), and everyone else must obey.
NATO has always been obedient to the United States. Now the EU has practically raised its “hands up”. French President Emmanuel Macron is still trying to defend his slogan of the EU’s strategic autonomy, but no one supports it anymore. The Germans were completely resigned, perhaps even happy, that the United States took over the management of Europe, ensured security, or rather, took on the further expansion of its military presence, so that Europe would never think about any autonomy. But simultaneously with the solution of this strategic long-term task formulated by the United States, the West is forced to take measures that damage it today. The same sanctions you mentioned. The slogan “defeat Russia on the battlefield” comes from the mouth of the chief diplomat of Brussels, not to mention the Anglo-Saxons, who have long stated this and continue to say this. That says a lot.
W. von der Leyen, as President of the European Commission, has publicly stated that the next step to increase sanctions should include a ban on the purchase of Russian gas, because all other measures have already been exhausted.
Everyone is well aware of the mood in Europe and the demands not to do so in order to avoid the problems that will inevitably arise if they stop buying Russian gas. Remember how at the recent Summit of the Americas, modestly held in Los Angeles, almost a third of the countries in the region boycotted it. The presidents and prime ministers of many Latin American and Caribbean countries said that the United States and Canada (two other participants in this Summit) spent more than fifty billion dollars. for Ukraine in just a few months, basically arming it. The amounts allocated by the United States to help countries and regions, including in the fight against the pandemic and the food crisis, are minuscule in comparison with these volumes.
The West wants to ensure leadership in the United States for all eternity, including not only Europe, but also the Asia-Pacific regions (AUKUS, QUAD are being created), contain China and isolate Russia. It’s a global approach. NATO already has a global lockdown. About this, Jens Stoltenberg publicly said that they are an organisation that should take responsibility for global security. To the question of what NATO is. They assured us that they were a defensive alliance and were exclusively engaged in the protection of the territory of the member countries. All of this has long been buried, as is the claim that missile defense is aimed at deterring North Korea and Iran. Everyone already understands what kind of missile defense it is and who it is aimed at. In order to achieve this strategic goal, the West, firstly, is ready to “hurt” its citizens for the sake of geopolitical ambitions, and secondly, it forces everyone else to act according to the same principle, resorting to direct blackmail, threats, ultimatums or all sorts of low-grade steps and methods.
It is hardly possible to say that the West solves its own problems, and it does not care about the problems of others. He just cares about the problems of others, because for those who did not have problems, the West creates them.
Long before the special military operation, which was a hopeless decision in the face of complete sabotage of the Minsk agreements under Donald Trump, my colleague Secretary of State Mike Pompeo traveled to Africa and publicly in his speeches called on the cameras, live, that Africans should not cooperate with either Russia or China, because both Russia and China allegedly trade with them out of their greedy motives. and they (the Americans) selflessly trade with them. They say, therefore, Africans need to reorient themselves. At that time, no one remembered any Ukraine, except by sabotaging the Minsk agreements.
As for the Minsk Agreements. German Chancellor Friedrich Scholz recently said that they must ensure that Russia admits defeat, that Russia’s goals of “seizing Ukraine” will not be achieved and that we must force our country to sign agreements that will guarantee the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. Chancellor O. Scholz was a little late, because the agreements that guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine and its sovereignty were called the Minsk Agreements. They were approved by the UN Security Council and implied a special status for Donbass as part of a united Ukraine. That’s what they’re all about. They were buried by President Zelensky with the active “support” of Germany and France (who were their co-authors) and with the active support of the United States did everything to “appease” Zelensky in his Russophobia. “The train is gone” about the agreements that Chancellor O. Scholz had in mind.

Further on in the interview, Lavrov’s answer again brings up Europe’s Colonial status:

Lavrov: As for the EU. This is no longer an economic forum, not the community for which everything was started. This is an exclusively geopolitical project, which is being crushed and has already been practically crushed by the United States. I’ve already mentioned this. Talk of a military component of the EU that would be independent of NATO and the United States has been going on for a long time. As a result, they degenerated into interaction with the same NATO. The two organizations worked out a “compatible mobility” plan a few years ago, under which non-NATO EU members made their territory available for the movement of NATO troops and weapons. This is actually one of the main forms of military-political alliance.
Now the European Union has quite harshly and loudly proclaimed the requirements for everyone who wants to join the European Union, so that they at the stage of candidacy, the implementation of the so-called chapters of the agreement on preparation for membership, they will join any foreign policy action of the European Union, first of all (this is now being publicly stated) to anti-Russian sanctions. What is prepared for candidates for EU membership is not economic benefits at all, it is submission to geopolitical ambitions and, ultimately, following the policy of establishing a unipolar world under the command of Washington.
What happened with my failed visit to Serbia is further proof of that. When Macedonia and Montenegro refused to provide their airspace, we expressed our attitude to this in contacts with the European Union structures in Brussels. They, without even blushing, said that this was the sovereign decision of these countries and they had nothing to do with it. Two days later (apparently, their left hand there did not know what the right hand was doing), the representative of the EU foreign policy service, P. Stano, said that they welcomed the decision of Montenegro and Macedonia, which, as candidates for EU membership, followed their instructions.

The entire interview is about Geopolitics. What’s above are those portions that relate to the issue of Europe becoming the servant of the Outlaw US Empire far more so than ever before–not even in the decade following WW2, although the plans were then being laid to accomplish what we now witness. As with every Lavrov interview, it becomes a primary source for academics, such as historians like myself. Much more is discussed with what is clearly a very well informed journalist who isn’t promoting an adversarial position; and for that reason, what’s revealed is much richer and useful. The entire translated transcript can be read at the above link along with the article.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 16 2022 22:25 utc | 126

From https://t.me/Slavyangrad Telegram channel…

Interview by a Ukrainian soldier to a Ukrainian volunteer. (Kherson area)
A: So you understand, there are no more fighting contract [professional] soldiers. All the contract soldiers have been replaced by the mobilized and the territorial defence. All the contract soldiers have been killed.
They were simply fucked over. Blatantly fucked over. Without artillery cover, with nothing, they were sent in groups of 15-20 men to assault three Russian companies. Notwithstanding that [the Russians] had mortar and artillery cover: 152mm self-propelled howitzers and 203mm Pions worked them over.
The people that argued with command—there was a lot of them, they expressed their mistrust in command—the command simply threw them out.
They spent a month in detention, and then command threw them in the middle of the field—no weapons, no documents, nothing, no provisions, nothing to cook with.
Q: Who is your commander?
A: Honestly, I don’t even know. I don’t know my commander because he showed up one time, and that’s it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2022 22:29 utc | 128

As well you should, especially with Et Tu, who is a concern troll.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2022 22:14 utc | 123

I think it reasonable to call the “concern” part into question.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 16 2022 22:31 utc | 130

From Colonel Cassad Telegram channel… Top Military Donors to Ukraine… 99 percent of this stuff is useless as far as affecting the military balance and most of the rest (or the equivalent) was already in the possession of Ukraine and was lost already. But some people got rich in Ukraine from this stuff.

Who is pumping weapons to Ukraine
Top military support donors (more than 30 billion euros in total):
USA with 23.96 billion euros
Britain €2.38 billion
Poland EUR 1.7 billion
Germany €1.39 billion
USA: M777 howitzers (108), Humvee multi-purpose vehicles (100), M113 armored personnel carriers (200), Stinger portable air defense systems (800), grenade launchers (100), Javelin anti-tank systems (2,000), Mi-17 helicopters (3) , drones (821)
Britain: Mastiff armored vehicles (120), Brimstone-1 homing air-to-ground missiles (200), NLAW anti-tank systems (3,965)
Poland: LMP-2017 mortars (100), AHS Krab self-propelled howitzers (18), T-72 tanks (240)
Germany: armored personnel carriers (14), Strela air defense systems (2,000), Panzerfaust 3 anti-tank grenade launchers (900), Stinger MANPADS (500)
Canada: M777 howitzers (4), M72 anti-tank grenade launchers (4,500) and Carl Gustaf M2 (100), Roshel Senator APC (8)
Norway: M109 howitzers (22), M72 anti-tank grenade launchers (4,000), Mistral air defense system (100)
Estonia: 122mm D-30 howitzers, Javelin anti-tank missiles, Mamba Mk2 EE armored vehicles (7)
Greece: Czech-made RM-70 MLRS (122), RPG-18 anti-tank systems (815), Soviet BMP-1 (122), American FIM-92 Stinger MANPADS (60), 73-mm shells (15,000); AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifles (20,000), 7.62 mm cartridges (3.2 million), 155 mm artillery shells (17,000)
Czech Republic: DANA howitzers (20), RM-70 MLRS (20), BVP-1 infantry fighting vehicles (5), grenade launchers (160), Mi-24 helicopters (160), T-72 tanks (12)
Latvia: American Stinger MANPADS and helicopters
Denmark: M10 mortars, M113 armored personnel carriers (50), Harpoon anti-ship missile system (1), M72 anti-tank grenade launchers (2,700), Stinger MANPADS (300), Skywatch automated drones (25)
Australia: M777 howitzers (6), Bushmaster armored personnel carriers (20), M113 (14)
Sweden: AT4 anti-tank grenade launchers (10,000).
France: Caesar howitzers (12)
Spain: Uro Vamtac armored vehicles (20), anti-tank grenade launchers (1,370), rifle cartridges and undefined machine guns (700,000), light machine guns, medicines, helmets, body armor
Portugal: M114 155mm howitzers (5), M113 armored personnel carriers (15), G3 automatic rifles, grenades and ammunition
Netherlands: armored personnel carriers (probably YPR-765), Stinger SAMs (200), combat helmets (3,000) and fragmentation vests (2,000), sniper rifles (100) with 30,000 ammo and rocket-propelled grenades (400)
Slovakia: S-300 air defense systems
Slovenia: T-72 tanks, Kalashnikovs, helmets
Finland: assault rifles (2,500) and 150,000 rounds for them, single-shot anti-tank rifles (1,500) and combat rations
Turkey: joint production of combat drones Bakar Bayraktar TB2 with Ukraine
Luxembourg: anti-tank weapons (100), Jeep Wranglers, military tents (15)
Belgium: anti-tank weapons (200) and automatic rifles and machine guns (5,000)
North Macedonia: unspecified military supplies.
Austria, Bulgaria, Romania and Ireland: fuel, bulletproof vests, helmets and medicines
Hungary and Malta: Medicines

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2022 22:44 utc | 132

The geopolitical fallout from the Outlaw US Empire’s 2014 coup in Ukraine continues to escalate in ways that go against its interests. In a rare appearance at SCF, Former Ambassador Bhardrakumar’s “India-Iran Reset Gets Under Way” provides some juicy nuggets. Modi seems to have had a transformative experience now that India’s in the SCO, having become far more independent of the Outlaw US Empire. India and Iran have a plethora of joint projects planned and underway, plus India has changed its attitude toward Afghanistan and is now a positive factor. Amazing what the prospects for development can do! The article’s summation:

The emergent factors in the world order galvanise change in regional politics, the most significant being the U.S.’ diminishing influence. Washington’s failure to muster support to isolate Russia and China despite Biden hosting two big summits — with the countries of ASEAN and the OAS respectively — is a signpost that U.S. bullying does not work anymore.
Ex-Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi couldn’t have framed the paradigm better when he wrote in an article for il jornale a week ago, “What the Ukrainian crisis has shown us is an alarming sign for the present and especially for the future. Russia is isolated from the West, but the West is isolated from the rest of the world.” Simply put, the trend toward multipolarity in the world order made a quantum leap in the past one hundred days. [My Emphasis]

Humanity is finally banding together to build a house for itself capable of resisting the predations of the Big Bad Wolf.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 16 2022 23:13 utc | 134

Random thought: one reason Russia is taking it slow in Ukraine is because Putin wants to destroy the Ukrainian army; to the degree there won’t be any possibility of an uprising afterwards.

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 16 2022 23:18 utc | 136

@Tom_Q_Collins/126. Same here. There’s something fishy about VT. Can’t quite put my finger on it. They have put up some really smart stuff… only to follow it with some really dumb s***. They have TDS and actually believed Biden was the better option in 2020. Imho Jim Dean and Eric Zuess can be dismissed out of hand.

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 16 2022 23:30 utc | 138

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 16 2022 23:13 utc | 133
SCO members, observers, dialogue partners, 2001 – present
UTLC Eurasian Rail Alliance (ERA), News 2018 – to present
Silk Road Briefing | Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia To Establish ‘Eurasian Rail Alliance’ Joint Venture, Mar 2022

India is currently negotiating a Free Trade Agreement with the Eurasian Economic Union [EEU], which includes Russia along with Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. All can be accessed via routes spanning out from the INSTC. Russia and India have both made commitments to increase bilateral trade by US$5 billion per annum for the next four years.

Although they both graduated the same year, it’s kind of tragic that PK still can’t raise capital as India has to get in on this “ground floor opportunity”.
Russia Briefiing |Russian containers shipped from Astrakhan to Mumbai as Iran tests INSTC connectivity routes, June 2022

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 16 2022 23:56 utc | 140

” Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jun 16 2022 20:28 utc | 82
—————–
Actually, no. I don’t care, whether any of the mercenaries gets caught or gets killed. Or, get death sentences, once get caught by the DPR or LNR Militias. They went there to kill. They are/were paid killers. ”
What about captured Wagner operatives ? Instant bullet ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jun 17 2022 0:04 utc | 142

What about captured Wagner operatives ? Instant bullet ?
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jun 17 2022 0:04 utc | 140
Given the Ukies’ penchant for wartime atrocities on their own civilians, documented execution of Russian soldiers (both war crimes) and just their general cozying up to Nazis, why would it surprise anyone if they were also executing alleged Wagner operatives? Unlike the Russians, the Ukrainian forces and foreign mercs on their side act with zero accountability here in the west.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 17 2022 0:07 utc | 144

juliania | Jun 16 2022 20:52 utc | 90
I am always so encouraged by the tenor of your postings…Thank you so very much.

Posted by: donten | Jun 17 2022 0:26 utc | 146

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lnhz-VLGmg
279 views Jun 16, 2022 Scott Ritter – Ukraine Russia war Update – Month 4
Anyone here tracking Gonzalo Lira beside me, he is missing for more than 4 days now and might be taken in by Ukraine SBU? While looking for Gonzalo stumble onto former Judge Andrew Napolitano analyst for Fox News A Truth Seeker interview “Scott Ritter – Ukraine Russia War UPDATE“

Posted by: JC | Jun 17 2022 0:51 utc | 148

Posted by: JC | Jun 17 2022 0:51 utc | 146
Posted by: Don Midwest | Jun 17 2022 1:14 utc | 147
Lira seems to have reduced his video frequency a bit to every couple days instead of daily. He was on The Duran’s Monday video.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 1:20 utc | 150

With the examples as above, I would like to return to my question: how to avoid happening to China and Russia, what happened to Europe? I mean, currently the narrative for Russia sounds as good as it did 30 years ago about EU being about peace and prosperity, but what are the mechanisms or methods to keep the elite in Russia (or China, or global west) true to the people also in future? Any advice would perhaps help people in Europe to apply the same methods even that it might be too late.
The trust and hope did not help European people, rather those were the very reasoning why the elite was able to take over the power and drive the world into the current conflict.
You see what I mean?
Posted by: Tigger | Jun 16 2022 19:55 utc | 75
What I read in your posts is a kind of western exceptionalism that thinks it has to somehow control Russia and China so they will stay “true to course”. There is no way to answer your question because it’s coming from a place that already assumes that those cultures are corrupt and incapable of self correction. They need to be saved by Old Whitey …oh wait we already did that.
IMO corruption is actually relative, in the west its rampant but many countries have figured out how to keep it to a manageable level. Banking and finance is one of the keys, social order another, accountability as well, not allowing corporations or religions to meddle in politics is another.
I recommend a course of study of leaders and speakers from both countries, easy to find on You Tube so you can see that over time they have been saying and doing the same thing for at least a generation, in China’s case much longer. Never listen to westerners “interpretations” without first going to the source so you can properly evaluate the bias.
Don’t expect people here to answer questions that would be easily answered for yourself if you put the effort into finding out.

Posted by: K | Jun 17 2022 1:46 utc | 152

@ K | Jun 17 2022 1:46 utc | 150 who wrote
”
IMO corruption is actually relative, in the west its rampant but many countries have figured out how to keep it to a manageable level. Banking and finance is one of the keys, social order another, accountability as well, not allowing corporations or religions to meddle in politics is another.
”
I agree and think that Ukraine has the rampant corruption of the West.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 17 2022 2:32 utc | 154

Re: Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | Jun 16 2022 12:40 utc | 1
Weeks?!?

The Fascist-Zionist-Capitalist Marionette government resistance is weakening, all of Ukraine will be called back into the bosom of Mother Russia within weeks!

The frontline has barely moved in the last 6-8 weeks!!
You need to put down the crackpipe.

Posted by: Julian | Jun 17 2022 3:20 utc | 156

Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 2:24 utc | 151
The Berletic video presentations – the way he presents events and takes apart propaganda – are excellent material for anyone who has not been closely following geopolitics.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 17 2022 3:30 utc | 158

karlof1 | Jun 16 2022 23:41 utc | 138
The face of the rules based order. The complete dumbing down or prostitution of western culture.
No reality, only living for today. The thinking/mindset that western power is ultimate and will last forever no matter what we do or how stupid it is. No sense of history.
He is the average anglo west.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 17 2022 3:47 utc | 160

Russia is giving a masterclass in war. Taiwan is learning that it will look like Ukraine if it doesn’t surrender. The U.S. is learning missile tech makes planes and ships obsolete and the trillions spent on carrier battlegroups and boondoggles like the F-35 are wasted. Europe is learning poverty and irrelevance. Iran is learning with Russian anti air and missile tech it can defeat Isreal. China is learning how many artillery rounds and missiles it can churn out each month. North Korea is learning with Russian artillery and anti-air it can drive the Americans out of Korea. Yemen is learning it can defeat Saudi Arabia. Seems like things are gonna change.

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Jun 17 2022 4:14 utc | 162

Two tweet threads detailing how the Ukrainian battle front is different from any previous conflict….
A recommended quick read.
https://twitter.com/thewizard765/status/1537310917746212865
John Smith. @thewizard765
Replying to @ArmchairW
Good thread, and you keep touching on a topic of importance but not quite focusing on it. Modern PGM [precision guided missiles] fights are reconnaissance-based engagements first, communications second, actual explosives third. No wonderwaffe is ever going to change the outcome of this style of fighting.
……

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 17 2022 4:14 utc | 164

Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 17 2022 4:14 utc | 161 “If that German Bank fails…. A country called USSA will cease to exist.”
I suspect Rus has that figured in.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 17 2022 4:40 utc | 166

Taiwan is learning that it will look like Ukraine if it doesn’t surrender.
Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Jun 17 2022 4:14 utc | 160
Well, no, the difference there is that any invasion of Taiwan would entail a blue-water movement of hundreds of thousands of troops which in the presumed battlespace should turn any Chinese strategist’s stomach.

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 17 2022 4:45 utc | 168

@ John Kennard | Jun 17 2022 4:45 utc | 165
any invasion of Taiwan would entail a blue-water movement of hundreds of thousands of troops which in the presumed battlespace should turn any Chinese strategist’s stomach.
No invasion? Then how about Special Military Operations, say an air attack on Taiwan’s small air force, then a blockade of shipping reinforced by electronic warfare, an air assault on the “president” — there are many alternatives.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 17 2022 4:54 utc | 170

ptb #103

A negotiated settlement or ceasefire freezing the lines would then be an acceptable alternative to the tradeoffs that both those important but obviously expensive objectives would involve. Obviously much depends on where Kiev’s sponsors are at, when the time comes to make those decisions.

Why stop and freeze some line? The vermin running the outlaw US empire wont stop, wont recognise the line in any way other than a place to locate a missile system to threaten Russia and even then as a prelude to initiating conflict and aggravation in perpetuity.
The imbeciles in NATO know where to stop and that is eloquently described in the two treaties drafted by Russia and presented to the outlaw US empire and its running dogs in NATO.
If you wish to draw a line in the sand then it does not have be invented – it is the 1997 NATO boundary as it existed back then. The rest of the line movement since then was nothing more that outlaw racist intimidation of Russia. That persistent intimidation seems to respect only one dialogue – FORCE. And that is what they and their idiot satraps are experiencing right now.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 17 2022 5:00 utc | 172

hankster #145
A US mercenary with high competencies in CBW!! – he just happened to be on holiday at the time, I guess, and took the wrong train. Good to see that he has been arrested.
Methinks he might need to do a bit of chin wagging to get out of that tight spot.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 17 2022 5:14 utc | 174

Paul Greenwood | Jun 17 2022 4:12 utc | 159
“Anyone else notice how little media coverage of the consequences of reduced gas flows from Russia is evident ?”-
It’s cute when very young children hide their face and think you can’t see them.
So if msm doesn’t report something….it’s not happening??
So this didn’t happen??? [pics] Igor Sushko. @igorsushko
#Russia’s largest natural gas field caught #fire overnight.
This is the #Gazprom Dobycha Urengoy site in Yamal, one of the largest in the world. Over 3000km northeast of Moscow.
#RussianResistance Igor Sushko. @igorsushko. 11h
Last night, Russia’s largest natural gas field caught fire.
Operated by Gazprom & located in Yamalo-Nenets. The gas field is closer to the North Pole and Santa’s Elves than Moscow.
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1537483488701648896
No msm means this didn’t happen:
Javier Blas. @JavierBlas
Benchmark European natural gas price (Dutch TTF) is up >50% over the last three days | #ONGT #Russia
Tom Marzec-Manser. @tmarzecmanser
16-Jun-22: NordStream1 #natgas flows dip lower at the open of gasday-16, broadly inline with #Gazprom’s new stated volume of 67mcm/d.
Onward NEL flows in particular being crushed. No increase via Ukraine. Eni says Italy noms for gasday-16 ‘partially confirmed’. #TTF #ONGT
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1537336792474591232?cxt=HHwWgICx-dzq29UqAAAA

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 17 2022 5:21 utc | 176

@ Skiffer | Jun 16 2022 20:47 utc | 88
I agree, thank you for such eloquent clarification.
But, given the size of Ukraine and even the contested territories, it still seems that there are not sufficient RF forces to cover and control it.
I do not expect Putin to say anything ‘revolutionary’ either, nor I want to speculate on that.

Posted by: whirlX | Jun 17 2022 5:29 utc | 178

They say the definition of insanity is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results. It’s wrong. They are result 1, then result 2, then result 3… and so on. God bless the West, and nobody else!
Joe Tzu

Posted by: albagen | Jun 17 2022 6:14 utc | 180

@Tigger | Jun 16 2022 18:00 utc | 47 et al.:
Why there is hope ist is getting better. Just before the winter olympics, Putin and Xi published a common declaration of their Multipolar-World. Around the same time here in the bar was a thread about the differences in the economic system that this approach would imply. Basically it said, that Western economic systems, aka capitalism, is a zero-sum game. I win, you lose, or vice versa. The, let’s call it “eastern economic approach”, tries to maximize gains in total, and for everyone. I do not recall who wrote that, on the back of my head it says “Karlof1” in big letters, but I am not sure. I was then somewhat distracted to take a deeper read, so sorry for being vague, but your post reminds me of things I need to do.
Cheers

Posted by: TomD | Jun 17 2022 6:29 utc | 182

@ Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 6:28 utc | 178
This video from Military Summary channel explains a lot on the density of troops per sector of engagement.
And in some areas there a simply not enough troops to keep them stable.

Posted by: whirlX | Jun 17 2022 6:44 utc | 184

Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 6:28 utc | 178
RF for whatever reason is not using sufficient forces to control and occupy Ukraine.
Just enough force to liberate the two republics over a period of time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 17 2022 6:49 utc | 186

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 17 2022 6:49 utc | 183
We don’t know that. Only the Russian General Staff knows if that is true. This is the basic mistake all the armchair strategists keep forgetting and which Martyanov keeps harping about.
My armchair strategist says the following and I’m likely just as right – or more so – as anyone else:
According to estimates, there are 100-120,000 Russians, 20,000* DPR/LDR, and 15,000 Chechens and an unknown number of Wagner PMC. That’s up to 150,000 assets. I’ve heard figures bandied about that currently it’s up to 300,000 including all the rear echelon, but I tend to doubt that. With armor, artillery, missiles, and air superiority, that force has been enough to decimate 100,000 (probably plus some unknown number up to double that) Ukrainian troops in three months and eliminate the majority of Ukrainian military physical assets.
Used properly, that force, once the Donbass Ukrainian force is reduced to nothing, will have no problem taking all the rest of the major cities in the east.
There will be next to no effective Ukrainian force between the Russian force and Kiev at that point – just an unknown number of poorly trained, poorly equipped Ukrainian cannon fodder. To quote Ritter when he was rational, “They will die.” There is no Ukrainian force that can either stop or significantly reduce the Russian force by attrition. Ukraine’s “700,000 men” – or is it “900,000 men” or is it “1 million men” (as of the other day) are a fiction. At most they have maybe 100,000 territorial and reserves left and a handful of front line troops probably around Kiev. And that’s for the whole country.
Which means the Russians can get to Kiev. Once there, it will depend on how many Ukrainian troops remain in and around Kiev and what degree of fortifications they have. Unless that number of effective Ukrainian troops is in excess of the Russian forces number, Russia can take Kiev with the force it has now. If Russia wants to do it faster, they can bring in another 100,000 which will at least double their effectiveness. If they want, they can bring in another 200,000, since they have 400,000 in the Western Military District alone. But they don’t need it.
Again, “control and occupy” are not the same thing. Russia has no need to “occupy” anything except certain strategic points. They don’t need to occupy cities, they don’t need to occupy countryside or bridges or river crossing or roads or anything else (except maybe nuclear plants – and even there they left Chernobyl although I think this still control the Zaporizia plant. They just need to move as one effective armored fist. That is all they need to “control” Ukraine. And Kiev is the only city with government buildings they need to control (and probably Lviv since that is where any resistance would be organized from.)
This is not Afghanistan or Iraq, where everyone carries an AK and belongs to a tribe ready to fight as an organized military force. There is no need for “occupation”. You look at eastern Ukraine now. Nothing is “occupied.” Once the Ukrainian military is gone, the citizens go about their business with Russia providing minimal security and Russian civilian assistance. The same will apply across Ukraine. Any resistance further west will be countered by the followup units of GRU, SVR, and FSB who will be doing their “de-Nazification” job.
Again, if they need more, they’ll bring in more. But I believe they have computed the minimum force needs to achieve all their objectives with a timetable and budget that allows the use of just those forces to do it. If that changes, they will change it. There’s no point in bringing that up now – which was Ritter’s mistake. Why talk about the need to “mobilize” when Russia clearly has not decided to do so and clearly sees no need to do so at this time? Why express that as a criticism when the need hasn’t happened yet?
When Putin says so, then it will be so. Until then, it’s bullshit speculation.
If I’m proven wrong on this point, I’ll say so. I doubt anyone else here will admit error if I’m proven right.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 7:39 utc | 188

Posted by: ct | Jun 17 2022 7:32 utc | 184
Agreed. Russia has repeatedly said they are not in a hurry. They will change pace only if circumstances affect the budget of acceptable losses of men and materiel and expense. And given the oil profits, that budget can probably change easily. At $700 million a day minimum, in ten days that’s $7 billion, which is ten percent of their entire annual military budget.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 7:44 utc | 190

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 16 2022 21:04 utc | 96

From Pepe Escobar’s Telegram channel… A comment from Medvedev…
“I saw a message that Ukraine wants to receive LNG from its overseas owners under Lend-Lease with payment for delivery in 2 years. Otherwise, next winter it will simply freeze.
Just a question. And who said that in two years Ukraine will even exist on the world map? Although the Americans don’t care anymore – they have invested so much in the “anti-Russia” project that everything else is a trifle for them …” – Dmitry Medvedev
A while back I speculated about this possible outcome, that Ukraine may cease to exist. That would be one way to de-natzify Ukraine- rather than take the neo-nazis out of Ukraine, take the Ukraine out of the neo-nazis: “Glory to ?” New name for western zone: “Bufferlands”?

Posted by: Seer | Jun 17 2022 8:08 utc | 192

The strange story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in the 21st century
Biden said he made the decision on sanctions against Russia not as president, but as supreme commander. In fact, it’s bad when two characters settle in the head, dictating different wills to a person. It usually has a well-known medical name in psychiatry.
But not about that. Once again about the senseless American doctrinairism. The largest power has decided to punish others for bad behavior – Russia, China, Iran, North Korea. Naturally, unsuccessfully, since the policy of a foreign (and even more so, a nuclear) state cannot be changed in any way. Not one iota. But the commander-in-chief decided and did it.
As a result of the decisions of such a commander-in-chief, but not the president of the United States, a large number of American and international companies are simply losing huge multi-billion dollar business in our country. And what in return? Nothing. The not very useful lemonade was in Russia, it will remain that way — both dark and light. Just under a different brand. As there were buns with meat, they will remain so. Under a different name. I’m not talking about food items inflation and the price of a gallon of gasoline, which, as the American oilmen told the whole world, is connected not with some mythical threat from Putin, but with the unreasonable policy of Biden and his administration in the field of oil production and refining.
But America again showed everyone its determination in the struggle for democracy! The question is at what cost. Well, the choice is in everyone’s mind. Especially when there are actually two characters in the head.
So, the split personality of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is not a safe thing in politics.
-Dmitry Medvedev
(Translation)

Posted by: ostro | Jun 17 2022 8:29 utc | 194

I wonder if this post will show up or have I been silently banned?
Having one facet of a Politik – anti-imperialism – is fine – making it your only Politik – makes you a crank – with a “niche” audience.

Posted by: moawatcher | Jun 17 2022 8:42 utc | 196

@Richard Steven Hack 185
That sounds vastly optimistic. The Ukrainian Donbass force is far from finished, at least from what we can deduce from the news of the front and the fact that the lines have barely budged for two weeks now.
There is still a working Ukrainian artillery.
Ukies are resisting everywhere.
It took two weeks to conquer Vrubovka.
in Severodonetsk, the mercs are entrenched and show no sign of surrendering.
So let’s not get ahead of ourselves. In three months of fights, advances have been minimal and all the talk of Ukies running out of ammo has been exposed as just hopium. Fast advances are only imaginable if there is no effective Ukie artillery anymore, and when I see that they still mount counteroffensives in Kherson, as well as spending ammo on civilian shelling, I do not see convincing evidence of shortages.
I would also caution about these interviews of Ukie soldiers depicting the Ukrainian army as complete chaos. This is not the whole truth ; if it was, Russians would not advance so slowly. All the evidence points to the fact that the Ukrainians have still a working command and control structure, organized units, and the ability to defend in depth. I’m irritated by the “turbopatriots” which have been claiming for months that it was just a “mop-up” and that the Ukrainian army is not coordinated anymore. In retrospect, Saker’s jubilant declarations in March leave quite a bitter taste in my mouth..

Posted by: Micron | Jun 17 2022 8:54 utc | 198

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 17 2022 8:01 utc | 188
Which is different from your bullshit how?

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 17 2022 9:06 utc | 200