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June 15, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-87
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Yesterday I saw a comment on The Saker 6/14 sitrep saying that Russia only controlled about 50% of the Donetsk region. Today they published 2 maps http://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-messy-grind-again-and-more-great-walkback/?inmoderation, one showing the various regions clearly, and the other showing the Russian-controlled area. I decided to overlay the maps to see if the comment was correct/incorrect, the result is:
https://i.imgur.com/RhH8Opu.jpg
The greenish area in the center of the map is the part of the Donetsk region controlled by Ukraine, and it looks to be about 50%.
Given that after 100+ days of war the Russians control only about 50% of the Donetsk region, it seems to me that talk of a Ukrainian defeat or collapse is premature, at best. Yes? No?
Yesterday I saw a comment on The Saker 6/14 sitrep saying that Russia only controlled about 50% of the Donesk region. Today they published 2 maps, one showing the various regions clearly, and the other showing the Russian controlled area. I decided to overlay the maps to see if the comment was correct/incorrect, the result is:
https://i.imgur.com/RhH8Opu.jpg
The greenish area in the center of the map is the part of the Donesk region controlled by Ukraine, and it looks to be about 50%.
Given that after 100+ days of war the Russians control only about 50% of the Donesk region, it seems to me that talk of a Ukrainian defeat or collapse is premature, at best. Yes? No?
I too thought they controlled more than 50% of Donetsk territory must be tough sledding in there. This tactic of human shields must be slowing down the troops.
Posted by: Lou Cypher | Jun 15 2022 13:49 utc | 3
From Intel Slava
🇷🇺🇺🇦 Residents of Berdyansk, the new authorities wrote off all debts on utility bills for water in the amount of 27,000,000 hryvnia.
It is also expected to write off debts and loans in Ukrainian banks, as previously stated by representatives of the CAA of Zaporozhye region.
Similar events are expected in the Kherson region, which will certainly increase the involvement of the population in building a new life in the liberated territories.
🇷🇺🇺🇦❗The authorities of the liberated territory of the Zaporozhye region plan to introduce social support measures for families with many children, single mothers and people in difficult life situations – Vladimir Rogov, member of the main council of the military-civilian administration of the region
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 13:51 utc | 4
@Saggy the operation in Donetsk didn’t start 100+ days ago
Posted by: Oj | Jun 15 2022 13:52 utc | 5
Portrait of a scumbag by an empire lugenpresse outlet:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-russia-war-canadian-volunteer-jt-1.6488565
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 15 2022 13:53 utc | 6
@ Saggy | Jun 15 2022 13:45 utc | 1
Donetsk is where the nazis have fortified and dug in the most. The nazi forces are now almost completely encircles and supply lines are blocked. While it is true they have not yet been fully dislodged, their positions have been made untenable.
Meanwhile, Russia and allies have liberated all of Lugansk and most of the southern oblasts from Mariupol to the border of Odessa.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 15 2022 13:57 utc | 7
From IntelSlava
🇺🇦🇷🇺⚡Applications for Russian passports in the Kherson region began to come not only from residents of the regional center, but also from the districts of the region — press secretary of the military-civilian administration of the region Sergey Moroz
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡In the Kherson region, they confirmed that from September 1:
1. Education will be transferred to Russian standards.
2. Training will be in Russian.
3. They will study according to Russian textbooks.
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 13:58 utc | 8
Saggy, Lou Cypher,
Looks that way. LPR is closer to Russian Federation state border and thus became first focus of phase two within the declared zone of operation (primary zone of special operation was declared to be both republics to their constitutional borders, secondary zone was ‘we’ll hit you wherever we see that we need to while we are at it). Pretty good guess that mopping up DPR’s entire territory will be next objective of phase two, and is coming directly.
Russia made demands in December (that were ignored),
Russia remains mum on its goals,
Russia doesn’t bluff,
Russia tries and sentences mercs then soon Azovites (will shoot them),
Russia grinds down Ukrainian forces,
Russia makes ‘faits accomplis” on the field …
Russia took over one fifth of Ukraine,
After Donbass crumbling pace will quicken,
Drive to Moldovan and Polish borders will follow,
In December will be done, while frozen Europe will beg for mercy,
DC Defeated Dems will be howling to death, biting their tail,
Be patient, wait and see …
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 15 2022 14:01 utc | 10
From IntelSlava
🇷🇺🇺🇦❗As soon as the Kherson region is integrated into the Russian Federation, the border with Crimea will cease to be a border – Kirill Stremousov
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 14:03 utc | 11
From IntelSlava
🇺🇸🇺🇦🇷🇺⚡The Pentagon doubts the effectiveness of the strategy of warfare by the Ukrainian side on the eastern front. US military analysts compare the two stages of the war and the number of losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, which have become disproportionate in the last month.
If in March, with the supply of Western anti-tank weapons and the mistakes of the Russian army, it was possible to stop or tie down units of the RF Armed Forces, now the situation has changed dramatically. The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine increased tenfold, while the Russian army, on the contrary, was able to significantly reduce them, which allows it to surpass the Ukrainian army in moral terms and achieve results on the eastern front.
According to Western military analysts, an increase in the supply of weapons to Ukraine will not play a role, since the landscape of Donbass itself plays on the side of the Russian army, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to occupy deliberately disadvantageous defensive positions.
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 14:05 utc | 12
Russia’s goals are the total denazification and demilitarization if the Kiev regime. Both goals are well within reach.
If the Kiev regime is determined to fight it out almost exclusively in the Donbass region, then that brain dead strategy suits Russia just fine.
It is pointless and futile to attempt to measure Russia’s progress in terms of geography. That is the wrong yardstick. Measure instead in terms of the destruction of Ukraine’s capacity to fight and the elimination of criminal neonazis.
When you look at the correct scoreboard there is no doubt about who is winning and who is losing.
Posted by: SingingSam | Jun 15 2022 14:08 utc | 13
Measure instead in terms of the destruction of Ukraine’s capacity to fight and the elimination of criminal neonazis.
exactly
Posted by: annie | Jun 15 2022 14:12 utc | 14
Is Russia at war with Ukraine? NO.
In 2014, there was a Western coup in Ukraine and the Nazis came to power in Ukraine. They see Russians as vermin and so the Russians in Ukraine were thwarted in every possible way. 30-40% of the inhabitants of Ukraine are ethnically Russian.
Crimea then decided to hold a referendum and it turned out that a vast majority of 97% (83% turnout) chose to join Russia. Luhansk (LPR) and Donetsk (DPR) decided to secede from Ukraine. The majority of these 2 ‘provinces’ are ethnic Russians. So a war arose between Ukraine and LPR/DPR. Russia secretly gave those 2 republics some weapons, but remained fairly aloof. The west (without Russia) made a Minsk1&2 accord to stop the violence Ukraine subsequently did not adhere to.
In short, Ukraine continued to bombard those 2 republics with artillery fire, resulting in 14,000 civilian deaths in those 2 republics! Of course, Russia saw how Russians were murdered and discriminated against. The Russian language was actually banned in Ukraine. They became disadvantaged citizens.
Then there was the fact that NATO was moving more and more towards Russia and that NATO wanted Ukraine. NATO became a serious threat to Russia. A few days before the ‘war’ broke out, Zelensky stated that Ukraine wanted to develop nuclear weapons. (Who would rock that one? Russia of course). They have the technology and the plutonium so that should be sorted out pretty quickly. It also appeared that at the end of February Ukraine wanted to attack the 2 republics and Crimea. So for the Russians enough was enough.
On February 24, Russia attacked Ukraine, calling it a special military operation. No war. In a war, the gloves come off and Kiev was completely reduced to ashes. The Russians operate very carefully to avoid as many civilian casualties as possible. Note that this will cause more casualties on the Russian side. The ‘liberated’ areas are largely Russian and they should not hate Russia. Ukraine’s military, on the other hand, is getting a massive beating. So far there have been 70,000 to 80,000 dead, injured or prisoners.
Now comes my point.
The Chechens, LPR and DPR, Wagner PMC (Private Military Contractor) and even the Crimean Cossacks join the fight. Hence the term ‘allied forces’. These parties do the actual ‘handiwork’ in the Donbas. Not so long ago there was a mini war between Chechnya and Russia, now the Chechens (Muslims) are fighting for Russia! And don’t run into them! In fact, these are the parties that are conducting the ground war with a lot of support and weapons from Russia. These parties have no helicopters, fighter jets and advanced missiles. They don’t get the most advanced weapons from Russia like the T90-M tank. They can’t do anything with such weapons because they are not trained for it.
Russia itself controls the helicopters, fighter jets, advanced missiles and provides many, many weapons. Russia itself also uses some advanced weapons, but not very much. They keep a lot on hand. The logistics are also in the hands of Russia. Russia also arranges for the ‘liberated’ areas. New administrations, taking care of reconstruction such as a mobile phone network, food for the population, criminal cases and so on.
In fact, Russia doesn’t even have that many fighting troops on the ground in Ukraine. That is a fact that has been grossly underexposed.
Of the 7.5 billion people on Earth, at least 5 billion are behind the Russians.
I know, this has been told very sympathetically, but that’s the point. I don’t want to write a book about it.
Posted by: Dutch | Jun 15 2022 14:14 utc | 15
@SingingSam (11)
I agree that denazification and demilitarization is the goal of the SMO, stated by no less a person than Putin himself.
However, I am queasy about statements by Lavrov such as this one: https://t.me/no_one_is_forgotten/3787
“the East of Ukraine”? How so, Mister Lavrov?
Posted by: bjd | Jun 15 2022 14:19 utc | 16
The general public is unwilling to accept the extent of stupidity in the Ukrainian and U.S. leadership. Zelensky is in no way competent to lead a war against the Russian army, and the U.S. Neocons have repeatedly demonstrated incompetentence in foreign policy. But facts are stubborn things, and the facts of steady Russian advances and the deterioration of economic conditions in the West will bring a final accounting. For Ukraine, the end will be a painful forced capitulation. For the U.S., it will be another humiliation to be processed by the amnesia machine. The U.S. reign of error will not end until China defeats the U.S. in the Pacific.
Posted by: HH | Jun 15 2022 14:23 utc | 17
A take: if sanctions aren’t going to make the Russians beg for mercy, I doubt any counter-sanctions to Europe, say, cutting off the gas, will force France/Germany to rush to the negotiating tables. (Besides, not having winter fuel is a problem for the plebs.) The US has sanctioned places like Cuba, Venezuela, et. al. and those countries are still “online”. Russia cutting off the fuel won’t make the Europeans squeal like piggies.
Like most things in the world, this will be decided by might makes right. Which does not look good for the Europeans, or the West in general.
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 14:25 utc | 18
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 14:25 utc | 16
“not having winter fuel is a problem for the plebs”
Not having energy is a problem for the plutocrats in Germany and other EU countries. Their industries will grind to a halt without Russian gas. If the sanctions war continues into the winter, governments will fall in much of the EU.
Posted by: HH | Jun 15 2022 14:29 utc | 19
Regarding Donetsk. The reality is that the Russian General Staff has not prioritized the vicinity of Donetsk as an important area militarily speaking. Unfortunately I have to admit they are correct, around Avdeevka it’s open land, so encircling it in a smash-and-grab action would require probably dozens of BTGs, which under the current parameters would not be feasible without massively depopulating the Kharkiv and Luganks front around Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.
It’s infuriating, but the main constraint here is the number of engaged troops in Ukraine, and at less than 200k troops Russian general staff obviously has to optimize allocation. Sadly, it means that Donetsk city cannot be protected efficiently for the time being, a small DPR force is working on encircling Avdeevka but at the current rate it will take weeks or months.
The main thrust of the offensive right now is clearly the northern Donbass with the goal of securing Slavyansk and Kramatorsk. Probably the other part of the calculus is political, as the social climate in the western countries is going to become extremely hot at the current rate of inflation.
Posted by: Micron | Jun 15 2022 14:32 utc | 20
Interesting that technical problems are reducing gas flows to Germany and maybe also for Italy.
Are the counter sanctions starting?
Posted by: ct | Jun 15 2022 14:32 utc | 21
From the Russian perspective, the operations in Donesk region is not a battle of territory. It is a battle of how fast the Russians can destroy the Ukrainian army using artillery.
Posted by: DavidC | Jun 15 2022 14:39 utc | 22
The USA today is a shambles. Mission Accomplished!
The ‘war’ was won on day one. The strategy of the US, based upon magical thinking and vainglory is a complete failure. The US hasn’t won a war since they dropped nukes on Japan.
There is hell to pay for nearly a century of American Empire, the tip of the iceberg is here.
Posted by: gottlieb | Jun 15 2022 14:41 utc | 23
From the Russian perspective, the operations in Donesk region is not a battle of territory. It is a battle of how fast the Russians can destroy the Ukrainian army using artillery.
Posted by: DavidC | Jun 15 2022 14:39 utc | 20
Yes, I think that is the point, taking things is not the job. If the UAF is right there in front of you, no need to go looking for them.
All the rest of this serves to bring that about and not interfere with it.
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 15 2022 14:45 utc | 24
Are the counter sanctions starting?
Posted by: ct | Jun 15 2022 14:32 utc | 19
Of course and with superb timing (Storage for winter must be done now) and good reason (Siemens grabbed and may have sabotaged other
compressors). How about all the food plant fires in the US?
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2022 14:45 utc | 25
This note is regarding bombing of Donbas civilians by the Ukrainian army, which is presented in all Western media, especially the German media, as Russian bombardment of (Russian) civilians. In the West, we do live in a post-truth society. In other words, absolutely everything mentioned in any Western public media by any “authority” is a blatant lie, just like this reversal of the truth.
Take the official inflation rate as another example ….
Posted by: Kiza | Jun 15 2022 14:46 utc | 26
Not having energy is a problem for the plutocrats in Germany and other EU countries. Their industries will grind to a halt without Russian gas. If the sanctions war continues into the winter, governments will fall in much of the EU.
Posted by: HH | Jun 15 2022 14:29 utc | 17
Perhaps, but I think that the pain threshold for Germany and the EU is much higher than anyone thinks it is. I would like to be incorrect on this assumption.
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 14:51 utc | 27
Well for what it is worth, the Battle of Berlin took 16 days. The soviets had 2.3 million troops, 6K tanks, 7K aircraft and 41.5K artillery pieces. The nazis had 766K troops and 1.5K afvs, 2.2K aircraft and 9.3K artillery pieces. It didn’t end well for the nazis.
Posted by: DavidC | Jun 15 2022 14:51 utc | 28
Economics are now coming to the fore as the main event. Ukraine was the catalyst. Watch the western economic world. It is visibly starting to crumble.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 15 2022 14:52 utc | 29
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 14:25 utc | 16
The reason Cuba and Venezuela are still “online” is because 1) they have an ideology that the people can still believe and 2) their people are not “western consumers” and made of sterner stuff.
Try and impose the same conditions in Europe, and you will have chaos everywhere.
Like another commentator said before me, it is not just a problem “for the plebs”. When your whole economy is dependent on imports that you will not have anymore, your whole economy crashes. We have a very large service economy, Russia has a very diversified industrial economy where they make a bit of everything. Ours is not the type of economy that is made to withstand sanctions.
Posted by: Lemming | Jun 15 2022 14:56 utc | 30
“Given that after 100+ days of war the Russians control only about 50% of the Donesk region, it seems to me that talk of a Ukrainian defeat or collapse is premature, at best. Yes? No?”
That Russia has liberated Lugansk while 50% of Donetsk is still occupied by 404 forces is akin to the Red Army enveloping and destroying the 6th Army at Stalingrad and pushing the Wehrmacht back from the Caucasus while Leningrad is still besieged.
Except today’s Russia hasn’t even fully mobilized for war.
Bagration is coming.
Posted by: Vintage Red | Jun 15 2022 14:56 utc | 31
AZ OSINT
@AZmilitary1
·
2h
‼️The US supports the unification of UK,Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states into a separate alliance to bolster defense capabilities-US Permanent Representative to NATO‼️
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 15:00 utc | 32
another day, battle proceeds in its slow, broad, and bloody way.
The global energy market situation has taken a turn for the worse this week, too. More inflation and de-industrialization of EU, are in the pipeline. Leaders too paralyzed by their obsequious loyalty to the Western narrative to do anything. No change in trend expected here.
Ukraine forces’ habit of taking hostages and terror strikes on non militarized urban centers is not winning anyone over either. If NATO ever had a chance to create doubts among the population in Russia and its allies and supporters worldwide, that chance is dead and buried.
Posted by: ptb | Jun 15 2022 15:02 utc | 33
Ct [19]
Since Siemens made a deal with Gazprom to supply aerodrive compressors for Nordstream and delivered them from 2009 onwards – they need regular maintenance and are shipped to the Siemens factory in Montreal that made them
Canada is refusing to release the compressor so the pumping station functions on 3 compressors which reduces pressure
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 15 2022 15:03 utc | 34
@24;
Not just a post-truth society, we are in a post-communist society in the West. China is too alien to Westerners to offer a compelling counter-narrative.
The Soviet Union, which had half of Germany and all of CEE under its control, was a very visible alternative, so capitalist governments had to put some work in sustaining their ability to repress communism.
If people cannot imagine an alternative, but are lost in sea of identitarianism, they will indeed have a high pain threshold, as they have nothing to organise towards, and the Stasi in their pocket is always listening.
The future is more likely “Brazilinisation”.
Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 15 2022 15:03 utc | 35
How to spin a boomerang
“Biden officials worry their Russia sanctions were so powerful they also brought economic suffering to the US, report says”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 15 2022 15:06 utc | 36
“..Interesting that technical problems are reducing gas flows to Germany and maybe also for Italy…”
ct@19
Surely the story here is that Siemens has refused to maintain the pumps it was contracted to maintain. This is Siemens sanctioning Germany, presumably at the behest of the EU Commission. If it continues Nordstream will stop functioning and the only viable alternative will be to commission Nordstream 2.
As to the pain threshold in Germany being high, I doubt that ordinary people are ready to accept any more pain for the sake of propping up Zelenskyi and weakening Russia.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2022 15:09 utc | 37
A real tweet from
🇺🇦 Official page of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine
Defence of Ukraine
@DefenceU
Ukraine government organization
Year of 9 of the the New Age.
Council of Elrond is bringing together free nations of the Middle-Earth to discuss how to prevail over the Evil from Mordor. Delegation is led by
@oleksiireznikov
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 15:09 utc | 38
Bruised Nortgerner corrects my @35:
“Siemens Energy said a gas turbine that powers a compressor station on the pipeline had been in service for more than 10 years and had been taken to Montreal for a scheduled overhaul. But because of sanctions imposed by Canada, the company has been unable to return the equipment to the customer, Gazprom.”
Stuck in Montréal.
So Canada is sanctioning Germany.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2022 15:13 utc | 39
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 15:09 utc | 36
The tweet in question is at: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1537012165982437377
I didn’t believe such things could be so farcical!
No Ukrainian could have composed that tweet, it has to have been an American – they love their movie analogies.
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 15:13 utc | 40
@bevin; @35
What is the ordinary citizen going to do? Vote for a pro-Russian party?
– None are allowed to exist.
The presence of Ukrainian refugees all over Europe has the salutary effect of shaming anyone who has a critical thought into silence.
If this does not work then dissidents can expect a visit from a beefy guy with certain tattoos.
Add to this the Stasi in every pocket and spiralling inflation means anyone who wants to survive has to compete in a job market suddenly experiencing mass unemployment i.e., it is in their interests to say nothing.
Give someone basic shelter and a smartphone and they are pacified until they die, alone.
Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 15 2022 15:14 utc | 41
moaobserver@39
History suggests that when people cannot afford to eat or keep themselves warm they get very angry and act spontaneously. There is no need of any political party to direct them.
No doubt current society is, as you say, unusually calmed by the ruling class’s monopoly of the media but while this might moderate or mitigate popular reaction to governmental failure it won’t cancel it.
There are only two alternatives: people will demand an end to the sanctions regime or an immediate conquest of Russia and its allies.
One day people will look back in wonder at the way in which the silly women, and men, leading Die Linke completely missed the opportunities that existed to upset the establishment, in order to preen their ID political ideas.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2022 15:27 utc | 42
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 15:13 utc | 38
Some creative bull$hit Ukrollywood produces
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1536845951100497921
Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 15 2022 15:28 utc | 43
Russia warned the US and its slaves in every possible way.
Putin and Lavrov made speech after speech laying out the facts, warning the US, pointing out red lines.
Russia demonstrated its superior firepower. Planes that nobody in the west can match. Hypersonic missiles, ditto. Precision munitions. The most effective army in the world. The ability to kill satellites. New, unstoppable ICBMs. Top of the line EW capability. The S-400, which is already better than anything the west has, with the S-500 still to come. The ability to intervene effectively in support of its friends, such as Syria. An unbreakable partnership with China aimed at achieving a peaceful, multipolar world.
And the west continued to ignore them.
Now the venal, stupid, lying, vicious, megalomaniacal, solipsistic, psychopathic empire is crumbling.
Bless you, Russia.
Posted by: pasha | Jun 15 2022 15:29 utc | 44
@pasha (42)
Can’t dispute what you say about firepower.
Now however — exercise for the reader: cross out all that have NOT been used by the RF Armed Forces.
Posted by: bjd | Jun 15 2022 15:34 utc | 45
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2022 14:45 utc | 23
Regarding counter sanctions:
And I am always impressed how Russians keep the plausible deniability. It is not their fault, Siemens screwed up. Not being German or led by incompetent politicians, I’d appreciate it even more.
Posted by: TomD | Jun 15 2022 15:35 utc | 46
@40 @bevin;
No previous society has had sociality, consciousness, transformed by smartphones before. We are in a new era.
I am quite serious when I mean that the majority of people are so addicted to online “life” that they would rather freeze and die with the smartphone in their hands than do anything else. They cannot escape. This was discovered by accident and is now “baked in”.
Intellectually, any left wing activists are entirely captured by the identity politics psyop, which also allows sociopaths to very easily enter and control left organisations. For older activists, the NGO grifter life has a strong attraction as people want some spending money and status recognition by other members of the PMC.
Any dissidents are simply excluded as “problematic”, or even worse, as a “Querdenker”.
I suppose if the Communist Party takes over in Russia and they decide to detonate an EMP over Europe something might happen.
If there is any hope I rather see it happening in Southern Europe and perhaps France. Simply because of the cultures and climate being more congenial to sociality.
Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 15 2022 15:37 utc | 47
But because of sanctions imposed by Canada, the company has been unable to return the equipment to the customer, Gazprom.”
Stuck in Montréal.
So Canada is sanctioning Germany.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2022 15:13 utc | 37
As many cynics have pointed out, the USA (Canada is a vassal) and Russia together are defeating Germany for the 3rd time in just over 100 years
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jun 15 2022 15:45 utc | 48
Pasha-42
Nice summary. I can attest that here in the west, deaf ears are the overwhelming majority. While they might hear about a thing or two, any useful information is drowned out by the relentless agit-prop. 88 years old intelligent dad: “Russia is the biggest land mass but they just want MORE!” 78 year old mom “It’s just tragic, Putin said he would use chemical weapons!!” And “Ukraine existed long before the Soviet Union you know!” There really is no hope for them.
In regard to the warning and red lines, Russia did what they could “by the books”. For (well over) 8 years they asked nicely, and were met with jeering and continual sabotage. Well guess what? Its Biznuss time now, so the USA and its poodles can bleat and moan as much as they like…I doubt it will change a thing. It’s a case of: ‘You had you chance, and you blew it…so sit down, shut up and let me drive.’
Posted by: Chevrus | Jun 15 2022 15:48 utc | 49
From IntelSlava
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡Following the ports of Berdyansk and Mariupol, Kherson port also resumed its work. Russia is promptly restoring the operation of the transport and logistics infrastructure in the liberated territories.
This will certainly have a positive impact on the economic interaction of the liberated territories with Crimea.
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 15:50 utc | 50
Posted by: Dutch | Jun 15 2022 14:14 utc | 13
Well put. Only that the Western countries politicians and leaders have resorted back to some Ivory Tower and whipped up some Cold War imagery of Russia`s plan to go after the Baltic and the West as soon as Russia is defeated.
A few days back, one of the daily German talk shows (or shall I saw another Anti-Russia-Inquisition-Show?) had a couple of polititians, the mandatory Ukrainian born independent journalist and a lass called Claudia Major, a security expert and political analyst. The latter came up with this rant (to which all participants nodded in unison):
There was said to be a lack of offers to negotiate (CM: argument by some German politicians)? There were so many options before the war broke out not to start this war! Since then, there has been an enormous number of negotiation offers from Ukraine, extremely far-reaching. Renunciation of NATO membership even. There is no serious interest from the Russian side because Russia still believes that it can assert its interests militarily. We need to get rid of the misconception that we haven’t tried enough – Russia has no interest in negotiations. … it’s not a conflict that Russia is willing to solve through negotiations or the chequebook, it’s about power, it’s about ideology and it’s about violence. … Russia treats the occupied areas as Russian territory, with deportation, with the introduction of the Russian language with passports and such.
One cannot rely on Russian promises. Minsk didn’t work, the road to war shows that Russian promises cannot be relied on, the breach of international law, the war crimes show that.
Then you read about the Security Council meeting at the Kremlin ( http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67825#sel=60:19:Wqx,60:97:r32;36:1:Qxl,37:65:Jry ) and some similar sources and wonder, how people talking such bull are even allowed to talk to the public (who is just fed snippets of this sad propaganda all day). And this trash goes on ever since the war has started.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 15 2022 15:51 utc | 51
Siemens… The same Siemens whos’ controllers were “hacked” causing the centrifuges too speed up causing “damage” to the Iranian nuclear program.
For yesterdays comments about the temperatures in Europe and how they may not play a part in Europe freezing. Murphy law… The lack of NG will cause Europe to have one of the coldest Winters on record.
During the Nazi invasion of Northern Russian areas, Moscow.. the winter temperatures averaged -12c.. That’s a beautiful winters day here in northern Canada.
Posted by: Heavymetal101 | Jun 15 2022 16:01 utc | 52
Italian television documentary infers civilians in Bucha were executed by Ukrainian soldiers as reprisal for “collaboration” with RF units.
https://twitter.com/NieblaGuerra/status/1536643416720822273
Posted by: jayc | Jun 15 2022 16:03 utc | 53
How about all the food plant fires in the US?
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2022 14:45 utc | 23
It is a given fact that somewhere in the USSA every 26 seconds (24/7/365) multiple fire appliances are required to extinguish a fire. A salient fact that is deliberately omitted and ignored by most peddlers of fire conspiracy theories.
The Insurance industry USSA publishes annual records detailing all probable causes of fire. Ranging from faulty electrical wiring to basic dumb human error.
If it is too good to be true. It usually is…..
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 15 2022 16:14 utc | 54
What I don‘t follow is that Siemens supplies an SGT-A35 aerodrive compressor say to Gazprom. The firm RVG in UK Services all types of SGT-A35 whether Rolls-Royce or Siemens but ships a replacement before repair is undertaken and such repairs last 60 days
So I am not clear how Siemens got into such a mess
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 15 2022 16:19 utc | 55
@Heavymetal101 | Jun 15 2022 16:01 utc | 50
During the Nazi invasion of Northern Russian areas, Moscow.. the winter temperatures averaged -12c.. That’s a beautiful winters day here in northern Canada.
It happens every time someone marches on Moscow, ref. the Minard diagram, at bottom is shown the temperatures during Napoleaon’s retreat from Moscow, it was -30C at times !
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 15 2022 16:24 utc | 56
Posted by: TomD | Jun 15 2022 15:35 utc | 44
The way things are going I see the Germans begging for NS2 to deliver gas while the Russians claim some technical hitch due to sanctions, to screw them tighter.
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 15:13 utc | 38
I’ve always wondered why Hollywood assumes that everybody in this world has watched their stuff. I never saw a chapter of Lord of the Rings so I can’t really place the characters when they start talking Mordor -which by the way suggests Mordovia one of the many republics of the RF- or those names free of copyright that they love to pirate like Pandora, it gets even more complicated when those names become common language like the concept of gaslighting, never saw that movie either, I have to say I prefer Italian, Russian, French, Spanish films, in that order. Fortunately for the world Hollywood is a sorry shade of what it was.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 15 2022 16:31 utc | 57
Posted by: bjd | Jun 15 2022 14:19 utc | 14
“removing the pressure by neo-naiz regime” is pretty vague term, and so is “east of Ukraine”
Confederation of small states forced to have no army, for example, would match it. And other schemes too.
Also, the translation is a bit off. The ukrojourno actually asked “what else stolen in Ukraine, on top of the grain, Russia is selling?” not about selling grains.
That old trick, “did you ceased beating your wife, yes or not?”.
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 15 2022 16:32 utc | 58
Regarding those who are despairing that Russia seems bogged down or even on the back heel, not being a military expert, or even familiar with Russia’s actual military capability, it’s practically impossible to think that if Russia chose to, she doesn’t have the capability to reduce the entire Ukraine to rubble in about half a minute.
Shock and awe, culture, history, civilians, infrastructure, return Ukraine to “the stone age” so it can build back better.
This has always seemed a backwards, demented, cynical, inhumane method to begin with, and is now effectively concealed from western television culture. Now the US and the west effectively conceals its crimes by “blaming it on the other guy.” Where so far they have been getting away with it. An even further display of cynicism and depravity. Except maybe gathering up one’s riches while one can because of killing and destruction.
Those who are wringing hands over how slowly Russia seems to be moving, or how little Russia seems to be acquiring, sound like a call to the kind of destruction the western war consumer has become accustomed.
Most of the readers here have been doing their own personal best to combat the empire of lies peacefully for their entire adult life, I have no doubt. Anyone who has been doing so, must realize on a personal just how cautiously one has to tread. Or we’d all be taken down.
Posted by: Geoff | Jun 15 2022 16:33 utc | 59
Russia lowers gas flows to Europe with part stuck in Canada
would be nice if people who are referencing posts and posters that haven’t posted in this thread – to kindly give the reader a link or point to where the comment is as to me looking for the post by the poster on this thread!!
clearly canada is sanctioning germany as bevin notes… and as has been said many times – the usa is sanctioning germany, but this doesn’t seem to matter to the german politicians!! looking forward to seeing how this all looks in the winter…
Posted by: james | Jun 15 2022 16:34 utc | 60
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 15 2022 15:51 utc | 49
A swift background check of the players involved shows their true intent to peddle propaganda without a license
For example bio extract from Dr. Claudia Major. A senior staffer of a German taxpayer funded political think tank ‘SWP’ . SWP also has deep ties with the usual corrupt one thought a time USSA government agencies . Peddling corrupt advise on “NATO”.
Basically an organization that is highly selective of the unbalanced “GIGO” info supplied to senior German politicians.
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 15 2022 16:39 utc | 61
“No previous society has had sociality, consciousness, transformed by smartphones before. We are in a new era.”
Posted by: moaobserver | Jun 15 2022 15:37 utc | 45
For all humanity’s existence our most dexterous digits have been our index fingers—until texting became a thing. Within five years our thumbs took that role of most dexterous. This is both evidence of how adaptable we are, and how quickly we can be reprogrammed on the neurological level. A dialectical challenge given the scientific and media resources the Empire of Lies has at its disposal, but also an indicator of just how “human nature” is not written in stone or genetic code, but is limitless in its revolutionary potential.
“I suppose if the Communist Party takes over in Russia and they decide to detonate an EMP over Europe something might happen.”
LOL, made me think EMP = Emancipator of the Multipolar Proletariat. A sort of exported techno-blanquism?
One way or another the multipolar proletariat will emancipate itself, nation by nation, even neuron by neuron. In a roundabout way the theory I’m sure many of us heard decades ago of global guerrilla war slowly surrounding and besieging the imperialist powers is coming about at last, not in the traditional sense but in a hybrid sense. Economics determining politics, China with its BRI is dethroning neocolonialism and the 7/8ths of humanity is cornering the ‘golden billion’ of the West in their historical lairs.
The only possible defeat is nuclear war. I have total confidence in the Russian and Chinese leadership’s ability to manage this threat, but given the psychopathic leadership of the Empire it’s still a real danger.
Posted by: Vintage Red | Jun 15 2022 16:39 utc | 62
@Down South (10) That “analysis” by the Pentagon promotes a novel myth that there was a point in the war when the Russian army could have been stopped, if not defeated, but that point has long since passed. What is left unsaid, but implied, is that the Ukrainian army botched the job. This narrative is an attempt to absolve the US planners who were/are the driving force of the war. Truth be told, there was never a point where Russian forces were bogged down and could have been stymied. Russia’s war plan played out as it had to, given the goals of the SMO and the conditions on the ground. Russia’s military capabilities far exceed those of the US and all of its NATO allies combined, and the war is being fought on its doorstep, not thousands of miles away. There is no way that Ukraine, even if fortified with all the weapons in the NATO arsenal, could have stopped such a military juggernaut.
Posted by: Rob | Jun 15 2022 16:41 utc | 63
Those who are wringing hands over how slowly Russia seems to be moving, or how little Russia seems to be acquiring, sound like a call to the kind of destruction the western war consumer has become accustomed.
Most of the readers here have been doing their own personal best to combat the empire of lies peacefully for their entire adult life, I have no doubt. Anyone who has been doing so, must realize on a personal just how cautiously one has to tread. Or we’d all be taken down.
Posted by: Geoff | Jun 15 2022 16:33 utc | 58
***
^^^This, exactly.
Posted by: Vintage Red | Jun 15 2022 16:42 utc | 64
So I am not clear how Siemens got into such a mess
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 15 2022 16:19 utc | 54
It takes some professionalism indeed.
Some our experts were for years saying Western European serious energy industry business is pissed of with WE puppet regimes and would help their Gazprom partners whenever they could. As they were stripped of options of positively effecting, they started effecting negatively. You wanted your sanctions – now you enjoy them comprehensively while we would do nothing and blame you.
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 15 2022 16:42 utc | 65
ships a replacement before repair is undertaken and such repairs last 60 days
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 15 2022 16:19 utc | 54
You answer your own question.
GIVEN, cost avoidance in #1 rubric of profit maximization for both buyer and seller, since, like forever.
Is expense (s) per unit replacement > x < 60 days labor?
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 15 2022 16:43 utc | 66
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 15 2022 16:24 utc | 55
“It happens every time someone marches on Moscow, ref. the Minard diagram, at bottom is shown the temperatures during Napoleaon’s retreat from Moscow, it was -30C at times !”
You need to read some history, the winter of 1941-42 was abnormally cold with temps as low as -50C.
Posted by: HistoryBuff | Jun 15 2022 16:50 utc | 67
Rule of thumb. If you see some issue in the smo that you are sure is a simple oversight and failure on Russia’s part, take a deep breath and realize it is because you lack the information needed to make those decisions. Repeating the claim over and over in every thread makes you look…well….
The area immediately to the west of Donetsk has remained static since the start. Instead of asking why this area hasn’t been taken by the allies, ask why the ukies haven’t burst forth from there to take Donetsk or retake Mariupol.
Posted by: Nook | Jun 15 2022 16:51 utc | 68
Posted by: Saggy | Jun 15 2022 13:45 utc | 1
I think they want them right there. In a caldroun.
Too expensive (lives) to try to dislodge them, so let’s just cook them in their own installations (8 years worth of)!
Posted by: Roda | Jun 15 2022 16:55 utc | 69
@ SingingSam. 11
Demilitarization is one thing but denazification is a lofty goal that IMO is not a realistic one, albeit a noble one.
If WWII is any lesson from the past it proves that you can annihilate a military with artillery but you can’t bomb an ideology to oblivion. You might send it underground at best or imprison it but you cant stop it from growing. Putin should have learned that since he is a student of history.
Besides, these pseudo-nazis are spread all over the Balkan. How do you root them out or preventing them from returning to Ukraine.
I think it would be a waste of resources and time trying to hunt these guys down as a military objective.
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 15 2022 17:12 utc | 70
Those who are wringing hands over how slowly Russia seems to be moving, or how little Russia seems to be acquiring…
Posted by: Geoff | Jun 15 2022 16:33 utc | 58
‘Those’ should go over to the not Ukraine thread and read the article S has posted @Posted by: S | Jun 15 2022 16:21 utc | 17
Think Russia isn’t aware?
Think China is sleeping?
It’s maybe time for more expanded discussion(s) of the bigger than Ukraine picture. b?
btw, thanks S for that and your other helpful posts.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Jun 15 2022 17:18 utc | 71
AZ OSINT
@AZmilitary1
·
2h
‼️The US supports the unification of UK,Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states into a separate alliance to bolster defense capabilities-US Permanent Representative to NATO‼️
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 15:00 utc | 30
firelighter
noun (BRITISH)
a piece of flammable material used to help start a fire.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 15 2022 17:22 utc | 72
German Press reports yet another round up of sabotuers in Kiev. Supposedly this time they were planning a ‘terror attcak’ against ‘elensky
https://www.merkur.de/politik/ukraine-news-sjewjerodonezk-azot-chemiefabrik-zivilisten-kaempfe-donbass-russland-zr-91612374.html
Posted by: Exile | Jun 15 2022 17:40 utc | 73
Economics are now coming to the fore as the main event.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 15 2022 14:52 utc | 27
now? no.
Ukraine was the catalyst.
no. Russia’s and China’s disruption of status quo value system shared by US, EU is the catalysts.
Watch the western economic world.
By world do you refer to economic theory? I suppose so, because western economic literature is not a scienctific activity; it is polemical literature, political indoctrination intended to reduce or eliminate deviation from average cost of labor force and work force (people)–individually and in aggregate– who manufacture of commercial goods and services which entitled property owners sell: (profit) P > R – C is an inequality western fair-trade liberals love to hate.
It is visibly starting to crumble.
Because the “western economic world” of so-called value-conscious consumers/producers populating “developed nations” fear or are losing physical and political control of raw materials, captured from “undeveloped” nation-states at historically (colonial) low costs. And not for the first time, ever. The assortment of intermediate employments and finished goods–say, granulated SUGAR–with which western “end-users” at the top of the “global” supply chain are accustomed, is unsustainable absent substitution or expropriation of raw material held by independent, undeveloped “emerging markets”.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 15 2022 17:42 utc | 74
Coming from the Brits and not confirmed by the Russian side the story might be fog, but a couple of US ex-military nationals have been captured according to The Telegraph.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 15 2022 17:43 utc | 75
“If WWII is any lesson from the past it proves that you can annihilate a military with artillery but you can’t bomb an ideology to oblivion. You might send it underground at best or imprison it but you cant stop it from growing. Putin should have learned that since he is a student of history.”
Alpi@69
Nazism was pretty well defunct in the Soviet Union by 1990. In Europe and north America no serious effort was made to wipe it out. Indeed it was carefully preserved and nourished by conservatives and imperialists who looked upon Nazis, as they always had, as a useful weapon to employ in the annihilation of those-socialists and, in the colonial world, nationalists- whose arguments they could not answer.
There is nothing natural about Nazism, it dies out quite quickly. But first you have to eradicate the liberal capitalism from which it grows, as apples grow in trees, when the season is right.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 15 2022 17:46 utc | 76
Five days ago, on June 10th, I posted an extract from an article by the President
of the CFR, Richard N. Haass.
[Posted by: librul | Jun 10 2022 15:47 utc | 30]
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2022-06-10/ukraine-strategy-long-haul
“the United States and its European allies should consider providing Ukraine with enhanced means (most likely aircraft) to attack Russian naval vessels in the Black Sea.”
Today, Reuters said that Sleepy Joe is expected to announce after his nap today
more weapons sales for Raytheon and Friends,
including supplying Ukraine with anti-ship rocket systems.
https://www.reuters.com/world/white-house-expected-announce-around-1-bln-of-weapons-ukraine-sources-2022-06-15/
This President, Richard N. Haass, is one tuned in guy.
Maybe we should pay attention to him for what else to expect.
In the same article the President of the CFR wrote this:
“Ultimately, what is probably required to end the war is a change not in Washington but in Moscow. In all likelihood, given Putin’s deep investment in the war, it will require someone other than him to take steps that would end Russia’s pariah status, economic crisis, and military quagmire. The West should make clear that it is ready to reward a new Russian leader prepared to take such steps even as it keeps up the pressure on the current one”
Is the President proposing here an assassination or coup?
What (gulp) does he know?
How would Russia react?
How will the Western powers react to Russia’s reaction,
if able?
Posted by: librul | Jun 15 2022 17:47 utc | 77
Paco-74
Well of the venerable general Cloutier Wasn’t captured at the Azovstal plant then he might want to stand and be counted….given that he’s had weeks to do so and hasn’t. Well you do that math.
Posted by: Chevrus | Jun 15 2022 17:50 utc | 78
Remember so far, it has been just batte for Lughansk, which is now probably 99% coplefe, allong with 60% of Kharkov region.
Donetsk lune was not pushed, and Ukrainians are encouraged, moving a lots of forces there. Also, there are chemical plants in Ukrainian held areas, it is densely populated and ovet 90% Russians.
It has been aplroacbed gingerly. But steadily advancing, not losing territory once secured.
Ukrsinians are often lulled into thinking they know the game plan, and envouraged to send more forces if stalled. There are 15,000 Ukraine soldiers on just one short stretch of front.
But they better watch elsewhere. After months of watching Ukrainian ships in Blacks Sea on Dnyeper estuary, Russians finally destroted them. What took so long? The entire area is mined, Russian forces watched the movement of ships to determine safe lanes. Niw they have them, end to end. Why focus there? Suddenly a little place allong the coast is of interest. Because after feigning focus on Mykolaevo — as a path to Odessa, now it appear that was never a goal. Coastal line lays open. Ukraine was lulled into thinking that the mines were protection aling the coastline. May not be.
There are too many factors to estimate what is going on. Blund men and elephant comes to mind.
Posted by: Bianca | Jun 15 2022 17:56 utc | 79
a military objective.
Posted by: Alpi | Jun 15 2022 17:12 utc | 69
It’s not a military objective. It is a political objective, and you and I are not the only ones wandering the margins of “geopolitical” competition without the faintest fucking clue what is criminal conduct and why demilitarization of Ukraine (US or EU) might be a prerequisite for cultural transformation alias “re-education” alias “restorative justice” alias “de-natizifiation” alias “de-radicalization” alias “counter-terrorism” prosecution of individuals within the populus who might resist “re-entry” as a productive member of society.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 15 2022 18:01 utc | 80
Telegraph. Two American mercenaries were captured in Ukraine. Both are former servicemen of the US Armed Forces.
According to the publication, 39-year-old Robert Drucke (served in Iraq) and 27-year-old Andy Hughes were captured near Kharkov
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2022 18:15 utc | 81
________________________
Appr 18, 2022
Slavoj Žižek
Vladimir Putin’s war engine is being sustained not just by European payments for Russian oil and gas but also by a complicit class of “lumpen-bourgeoisie” motivated solely by the trappings of material wealth. Ukrainians, and everyone else, are learning the hard way how global capitalism trumps democracy and human rights.
LJUBLJANA – The so-called oligarchs in Russia and other ex-communist countries are a bourgeois counterpart to what Marx called the lumpen-proletariat: an unthinking cohort susceptible to political manipulation because its members have no class consciousness or revolutionary potential of their own. Unlike the proletariat, however, the lumpen-bourgeoisie who emerged in these countries from the late 1980s onward control capital – lots of it – thanks to wild “privatization” of state-owned assets.
2
An exemplary case is Rok Snežič, a collaborator and friend of Slovenia’s right-wing prime minister, Janez Janša. An “independent tax adviser,” Snežič helps Slovene companies redomicile in the lower-tax jurisdiction of Republika Srpska (the Serb part of Bosnia and Herzegovina). He apparently has no private possessions, and he has erased his own past tax bills by declaring bankruptcy. Yet Snežič also cruises around in new luxury cars and has the means to pay for jumbo billboard ads. He is officially employed by a company owned by his wife, where he receives a monthly salary of €37,362 ($40,346) in cash. But “normal” capitalism also generates a lumpen-bourgeoisie. Snežič is not so different from Donald Trump, who similarly thrives precisely because he stands for nothing, motivated solely by money and the trappings of material wealth. Market values have also determined the contours of Russia’s war in Ukraine, whose president, Volodymyr Zelensky, appears to have had a crash course in how global capitalism and democracy really work. Since the start of the war, Europe has sent Russia almost $40 billion in payments for oil and gas, prompting his observation that Western countries are more concerned about rising energy prices than Ukrainian lives. The capitalist market – the one that has been fueling the Russian war engine – has forsaken Ukraine. Ending this bloody trade would require governments to abandon their reliance on market mechanisms and start organizing energy supply directly, as would addressing the global food crises that Russia’s war is generating. (In addition to being two of the world’s biggest wheat exporters, Russia and Ukraine are also major sources of chemical fertilizers for Europe.) Paradoxically, only measures recalling the newborn Soviet Union’s “war communism” can save Ukraine and preserve Western power. After all, Russia is coordinating with China not only to challenge the West geopolitically but also to depose the US dollar and the euro as global currencies.
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Given that Western solidarity is limited by economic interests, the Ukrainians will have to accept that “defending Europe” is not enough. Ukraine is also defending the Russian people from the self-destructiveness of their president, Vladimir Putin, and his lumpen-bourgeoisie.
In a recent commentary published by the Russian state-owned news agency RIA News, Timofey Sergeytsev presents the full scope of the Kremlin’s genocidal project in Ukraine. The basic premise is that Ukraine needs to be “denazified,” and thus de-Europeanized, because “a significant part of the people – most likely the majority – has been mastered and drawn into the Nazi regime in its politics. As such, the hypothesis, ‘the people are good, and the government is bad’ does not work.” Sergeytsev not only equates Ukrainian politics with Nazism. He also claims that “ukronazism” poses an even greater threat to the world and Russia than Hitlerite Nazism did. Even the name “Ukraine” must be eliminated. So, Russia plans to do with Ukraine what Bertolt Brecht describes in his 1953 poem “The Solution”: dissolve the people and elect another. By reading Sergeytsev’s mad ravings alongside Putin’s claim that Lenin invented Ukraine, we can discern the current Russian position. Ukraine has two fathers: Lenin, who invented it, and Hitler, who inspired today’s “ukronazis” to actualize Lenin’s invention. What, then, does this imply for Russia’s geopolitical situation? According to Sergeytsev: “Russia has a high potential for partnerships and allies with countries that the West has oppressed for centuries, and which are not going to put on its yoke again. Without Russian sacrifice and struggle, these countries would not have been liberated. The denazification of Ukraine is at the same time its decolonization, which the population of Ukraine will have to understand as it begins to free itself from the intoxication, temptation, and dependence of the so-called European choice.” In other words, Russia must radically reorient, breaking its links with the West to forge new ties with all those countries that were brutally exploited by Western colonial powers. It is Russia that will lead a global process of decolonization. Western imperial powers’ brutal exploitation of the Global South is a truth that must never be forgotten. But it is strange to hear such talk from Russia, with its long history of such behavior. In the eighteenth century, Catherine the Great conquered southeastern Ukraine and territory from Siberia to Alaska to Northern California. Now, we are told that Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Ukraine will be “decolonized” by way of…Russian colonization. Territories will be liberated against the will of their people (who will have to be re-educated or otherwise dissolved). If a new world war is to be avoided, it will be through a “hot peace,” with massive military investments sustaining a fragile new balance of power. The fragility of the situation stems not just from conflicting economic interests but also from conflicting interpretations of reality, which is not just about settling facts. But simply trying to prove that Russian claims are false misses the point made by Aleksandr Dugin, Putin’s court philosopher: “Post-modernity shows that every so-called truth is a matter of believing. So we believe in what we do, we believe in what we say. And that is the only way to define the truth. So we have our special Russian truth that you need to accept.” Faith, it seems, overrides knowledge. According to the “special Russian truth,” Russia’s soldiers left behind no corpses of brutalized civilians in Bucha and other Ukrainian cities and towns; Western propagandists supposedly staged those atrocities.
Given these circumstances, Westerners must stop proposing that Zelensky meet with Putin to negotiate a peace settlement. That is a fool’s errand. Any eventual negotiations will have to be conducted by lower-level bureaucrats. Putin and his inner circle are criminals who must be ignored as much as possible. Ultimately, a significant share of the Russian population must see this. In the former Yugoslavia, corrupt policemen were the butt of many jokes. In one of them, a policeman returns home unexpectedly and finds his wife alone in bed, half-naked and aroused. Suspecting that her lover is hiding under the bed, he bends down and looks. A few seconds later, he pops back up, mumbles, “Everything’s okay, nobody is there,” and quickly shoves a wad of banknotes into his pocket. In a way, all of us are that policeman, accepting misery and humiliation as the price of some form of surplus enjoyment. In Russia, the suffering population is compensated not with banknotes but with cheap patriotic pride. And in the West, we allow the market to dictate the strength of our commitment to human rights in Ukraine and elsewhere.
Posted by: Anna Miller | Jun 15 2022 18:21 utc | 82
Apologies I was meaning just to post link and quote one paragraph ‘Slavoj Žižek
Vladimir Putin’s war engine is being sustained not just by European payments for Russian oil and gas but also by a complicit class of “lumpen-bourgeoisie” motivated solely by the trappings of material wealth. Ukrainians, and everyone else, are learning the hard way how global capitalism trumps democracy and human rights.’
I don’t nearly agree with much of what Slovenian thinker says yet he brings to the debate that are worth considering.
Posted by: Anna Miller | Jun 15 2022 18:25 utc | 83
From IntelSlava
🇷🇺🇺🇦❗In the Kharkiv direction, heavy fighting continues in the area of the settlement. Ternovaya, Rubezhnoye and Stary Saltov. The Ukrainian offensive on this sector of the front has fizzled out, now we are step by step trying to recapture the positions lost more than a month ago.
That night and early in the morning, the village of Sereda in the Belgorod province was once again subjected to heavy shelling. In response, our cannon and rocket artillery hit the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
In general, of course, the next battle after the general battle for the Donbass will be the Kharkov-Sumy operation. Without the liberation of this region and the destruction of the Kharkiv-Sumy grouping of the enemy, there can be no talk of any calmness in the border regions of the Russian Federation.
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 18:35 utc | 84
Posted by: Anna Miller | Jun 15 2022 18:25 utc | 82
“But simply trying to prove that Russian claims are false misses the point made by Aleksandr Dugin, Putin’s court philosopher: “Post-modernity shows that every so-called truth is a matter of believing. So we believe in what we do, we believe in what we say. And that is the only way to define the truth. So we have our special Russian truth that you need to accept.” Faith, it seems, overrides knowledge. According to the “special Russian truth,” Russia’s soldiers left behind no corpses of brutalized civilians in Bucha and other Ukrainian cities and towns; Western propagandists supposedly staged those atrocities.”
Well, he’s right that truth is a matter of opinion. Truth depends on context to have any meaning and context is subjective.
Daily Mail also has an article on the two Americans captured as POWs in Ukraine (outside Kharkov, as it happens). Has photos of the two men.
Posted by: Lysias | Jun 15 2022 18:37 utc | 86
kudos to mexico and the mexicans for having a leader that speaks the truth!
“The President of Mexico called NATO’s actions in Ukraine immoral
He said that NATO is waging a proxy war against Russia on the territory of Ukraine. Such behavior is absolutely immoral, he stressed.
“I will supply weapons, and you will supply the dead,”-he added”
meanwhile – joe tzu from 1997 –
In 1997, Biden said he wants to provoke “a vigorous and hostile reaction” from Russia by expanding NATO. This was Before Putin, before the Kosovo war.
25 years later, he is presiding over a hot proxy war with Russia. Mission: accomplished. Next step: nuclear war.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1536648863376977921
and “U.S. President Joe Biden will meet Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman during a trip to the Middle East in July, in a break with his campaign pledge of making the kingdom a ‘pariah’ as he struggles to combat record high U.S. gasoline prices https://reut.rs/3xskKX0“
first two us fighters captured russian forces battle
Posted by: james | Jun 15 2022 18:38 utc | 87
China could ruin NATO and end western imperialism overnight by cutting off exports to hostile nations including via third parties. China manufactures virtually everything the US and the EU consumes.
No car parts, tools, vitamins, medication, iphones. Empty CostCo
and Walmart shelves cannot be censored. Turning the sanctions tables on the elites is the only diplomacy they understand. It’s short term pain for long term gain for China and peace for people, animals and the environment.
Posted by: Willow | Jun 15 2022 18:39 utc | 88
Is the President proposing here an assassination or coup?
What (gulp) does he know?
Posted by: librul | Jun 15 2022 17:47 utc | 76
He’s trying to pull a Henry II.
“O wretched Man that I am, who shall deliver me from this turbulent Priest?”
For Man read “the West” and for Priest read “Putin”.
Posted by: Ursula Zandt | Jun 15 2022 18:41 utc | 89
Levi
@Levi_godman
·
55m
The Crimean bridge will be the number one goal for Ukraine after receiving the weapons promised by the West, Major General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Dmitry Marchenko said in an interview with Radio Liberty.
Yes do that and see what happens next
Posted by: Down South | Jun 15 2022 18:43 utc | 90
@ Tito | Jun 15 2022 18:44 utc | 90 and his commentary is from april 18th – stale and irrelevant on all levels…
Posted by: james | Jun 15 2022 18:46 utc | 92
China could ruin NATO and end western imperialism overnight by cutting off exports to hostile nations
Posted by: Willow | Jun 15 2022 18:39 utc | 87
I think China has been doing something, further slowing the confused supply chain using “Covid” as an excuse that can’t be criticized in the West. Pretty slick I’d say.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2022 18:48 utc | 93
@ Anna Miller | Jun 15 2022 18:25 utc | 82
”trappings of material wealth”… what is zizeks excuse for ignorance?
Posted by: james | Jun 15 2022 18:48 utc | 94
Ukraine is not the only front in the Cold War 2.0 (although it’s the hottest one by far). In the latest Open Thread, I have posted translations of three Russian articles providing overview of some of the other fronts: Chinese, Turkish and Algerian.
Posted by: S | Jun 15 2022 18:51 utc | 95
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 15 2022 18:48 utc | 92
I think China has been doing something, further slowing the confused supply chain using “Covid” as an excuse that can’t be criticized in the West. Pretty slick I’d say.
I’ve had this same thought. The ultimate “soft sanction”. Defeat your enemy without firing a shot.
Posted by: Wook | Jun 15 2022 18:53 utc | 96
“I don’t nearly agree with much of what Slovenian thinker says yet he brings to the debate that are worth considering.
Posted by: Anna Miller | Jun 15 2022 18:25 utc | 82”
Only if you are a fellow nazi, or US stooge.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 15 2022 19:00 utc | 97
Ukraine is not the only front in the Cold War 2.0 (although it’s the hottest one by far). In the latest Open Thread, I have posted translations of three Russian articles providing overview of some of the other fronts: Chinese, Turkish and Algerian.
Posted by: S | Jun 15 2022 18:51 utc | 94
Your posts there have confirmed what have been assuming all along since the beginning of covid, namely that we are in an epoch-changing period which as of now is rapidly morphing into an overt world war mainly waged asymmetrically versus kinetically. It will probably last several years longer at least.
Re: High pain threshold
In the West? Bwahahaha!!!
Oh, my sides!
Westerners cannot look at themselves honestly, can they? It is a culture that needs “safe spaces” from people who don’t share their particular delusions and that gets Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from imperceptible “microaggressions”! They are a people who need laws protecting them from words penned by others on social media!
Westerners do not have a high pain threshold. They have no pain threshold whasoever. They are beyond thin-skinned and are so lacking in dermal fortitude that the very slightest touch leaves them writhing in agony.
High pain threshold? What a joke!
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 15 2022 19:05 utc | 99
for the german barflies here
Did you know that the savoyens(schwaben) are more or less the most spreaded german culture in the world? (I mean people like – you should really check the story of those people)
“Schäffle Schäffle, Flüssle Besetzle”
Posted by: Macpott | Jun 15 2022 19:08 utc | 100