Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 12, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-85

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …

The open thread for other issues is here.

Comments

Ho hum, in other news about country 404 self destructive internal corruption and theft .
The propaganda writers have found the perfect idiots fo claim the evil Russians have stolen all the valuable ancient artifacts discovered in former Russian territories. Much later incorporated into country 404.
The very same fools who conveniently ignored the dark past. Where 98% of the underpaid/unpaid curators of all the museums of country 404. Conspired to create fakes and sell off the originals…….
Norway once the most impoverished country in Europe. where the only exports was fish, small amount of timber and people seeking a better life. Said Country 404 has a massive abyss between the top 100 oligarchs and the 40 million living well below the poverty line…… Of both Bulgaria and Romania. As for corruption levels. This country is totally and absolutely corrupt at every level of government.
Blame the Russians for all western hyperstagflation . Will that include the USSA Nixon/opec Era too in…………….

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 13 2022 5:35 utc | 301

@ Peter AU1 | Jun 13 2022 5:23 utc | 299 with the MoA tweet of the EU bull going over the cliff.
I agree that all of empire is going over that cliff and I see Russia/China waving a multipolar Reserve Currency flag in front of the bull.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13 2022 5:36 utc | 302

Bevin @268

He was connected to Ukraine by way of being the landlord of Ukraine’s finest novelist: known in England as Joseph Conrad.

Conrad’s family were Polish nobility. I’m sure he’s turning in his grave at being referred to as Ukraine’s finest novelist!

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Jun 13 2022 5:49 utc | 303

Hurry! Buy now to support the American Red Cross in the 404!
https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/President-Volodymyr-Zelenskyy-Commemorative-Coin-p/ukraine.htm
Did the make a 1939 version for Jozef Beck?*
Coot
*Apologies for the poor analogy. I welcome another comparison more apropos.

Posted by: Old Coot | Jun 13 2022 6:48 utc | 304

Ruble strengthening again, at this rate the Russian Central Bank will have to make another sizeable cut in Russian interest rates, to significantly below the level just before the special operation. All good for Russia, and internal retail prices actually falling now.

Posted by: Roger | Jun 13 2022 6:58 utc | 305

So pls spare us the uninformed blabber. (Being charitable here and not saying you’re lying!)
Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 4:46 utc | 292
Oh please. Don’t invoke honesty in speaking, when you just played with the meaning of words. I believe you perfectly know that the actual “membership” of France was in no way similar to the condition of other countries.
During that half-century, France kept the ability to cooperate with Nato, when and only if it wanted to. That’s what its membership was.
When France exited from the Commandement of Nato it actually means it became absolutely independent, having nobody to obey to. Then, against the will of Nato it developed its own nuclear force which was 100% out of reach of any kind of nato interference.
Then every nato military based on French territory was told to go home.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 7:00 utc | 306

@ Roger | Jun 13 2022 6:58 utc | 305 watching the markets….me too but headed for sleep time.
I noticed the US futures markets keep hammering down a bit with some over 2% off currently….I am sure the Fed PPT is on the game with their own trading desks now….using taxpayer money to prop up the private banking cartel.
The shit show continues until it doesn’t…..

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13 2022 7:05 utc | 307

PeterAU @288 is right. There is a lot more to the titanium supply issue than first meets the eye. Including security of supply for military aircraft – and rockets (let alone howitzers).
And Boeing, for one, have made big investments in Russia for machining titanium parts.
(More at the article). Equally ironic, the Russians are intending to make a parts factory in Tartarstan for their own indigenously produced aircraft. No doubt they have learnt a lot from the joint venture!!!
“Ironically, while Russia has been the reliable partner, the US has not. The Boeing officials should have been more concerned with their own politicians de-stabilising a mutually beneficial partnership with their ‘sanctions’.
“During last November’s Dubai Airshow, the company and Boeing announced an extension of Ural Boeing Manufacturing joint-venture “for years to come.” A Memorandum of Understanding covered the supply of titanium of current and future commercial aircraft programs, including the 737/MAX, 767, 777/777X, and 787, making the Russian company the largest supplier of titanium parts to Boeing. The two companies would also work together on new alloys and technologies. In a press statement at the time, Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Stan Deal described VSMPO-AVISMA as “a reliable and valuable partner to Boeing for almost 25 years.””
Airinsight.com February 28, 2022
The ‘sanctions’ means that Boeing ‘suspended’ buying titanium from Russia. Boeing had been diversifying titanium sources in recent years, and while it still relies on Russia for 30% of its overall titanium metal supply, Boeing believes it can increase its supplies from domestic US suppliers, China, Japan and Kazakhstan in sufficient quantity to replace Russia.The US produces about 100,000 tonnes of titanium dioxide a year, but has to import a further 1,000 000 tonnes of TiO2 a year, mostly for use as a white pigment. It is discretely quiet about the machined parts it obtains from its Ural Boeing Manufacturing joint venture”

Posted by: powerandpeople | Jun 13 2022 7:22 utc | 308

If you are interested on the language problem of two (or more parts) Ukraine and why this SMO is more of a civil war in the former Ukraine, have look, https://youtu.be/NgaRafZA7Bk the girl is an Ukrainian.
By the way, the side effect of this SMO in Ukraine is the degradation of the US — the division of it is coming fast in large steps, and the fall of EU. NATO is useless in the confrontation with Russia anyway — only good at bombing weaker countries, and even there it fails.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2022 7:29 utc | 309

@Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13 2022 7:05 utc | 307
New high in the US 10 year Treasury interest rate, with the probability of a .75% raise by the Fed this week, starting to smell a lot like 2007/2008 but with even more malinvestment and debt in place. The 40-year era of falling interest rates in the West could be over, which is not good news for the financial economy and housing.
Have a good sleep!

Posted by: Roger | Jun 13 2022 7:33 utc | 310

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 13 2022 7:05 utc | 307
My little weekly ES chart:
https://www.tradingview.com/x/g8PhQhmr/
I like charts. But for indicators I only use Volume like VWAP or Volume profile. This Weekly chart show monthly closing VWAP (green dots) which are more interesting in higher time frames (Daily, intraday etc.). But on this chart I put a VWAP from the key low area and you can see the market is right there right now but on the verge of going lower and if it does then support is quite a ways down. On the left you can see the Volume Histogram for the whole period displayed and you can see that major support is around the 2720 area. Good chance that we’ll be headed down there if the market breaks and closes below that turquoise Vwap line from the last major low.
Yours,
Sleepless in Seattle!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 7:45 utc | 311

It explains a lot of his kowtowing to the west over the years.
Posted by: Karl luck | Jun 13 2022 5:05 utc | 294
He certainly didn’t sound like a kowtowing puppet in Munich 2007. Kowtowing IMO simply is not in Putin’s DNA.
Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Jun 13 2022 5:49 utc | 303
You beat me to it Herr Ringbone. I never read anything he wrote but did go and checked to see who this famous “404 State” author was, Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski. As deeply Polish as Churchill is British.

The Korzeniowski family had played a significant role in Polish attempts to regain independence. Conrad’s paternal grandfather Teodor had served under Prince Józef Poniatowski during Napoleon’s Russian campaign and had formed his own cavalry squadron during the November 1830 Uprising.[25] Conrad’s fiercely patriotic father Apollo belonged to the “Red” political faction, whose goal was to re-establish the pre-partition boundaries of Poland, but which also advocated land reform and the abolition of serfdom. Conrad’s subsequent refusal to follow in Apollo’s footsteps, and his choice of exile over resistance, were a source of lifelong guilt for Conrad.[26]

Also, in 1857 , when he was born, there was no “Failed State” called Ukraine.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81hu0lbpnLL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 13 2022 7:45 utc | 312

@Bevin, 218. You explained why immigrants flee US scorched earth meddling, but you didn’t answer Bobokinski’s valid question of why immigrants prefer shithole US to Mexico. “Americans don’t seem to realise that, being generally protected by two oceans, most of the people they impoverish and drive from their homes never make it to America- instead, ask the Turks or the EU, they drift into Europe.”
While I agree 2 oceans keep Americans protected and ignorant, please explain why Europeans are willing to accept their demise.

Posted by: Willow | Jun 13 2022 7:50 utc | 313

Russia to ‘completely cut off’ key city – CNN headline
Ukrainian military officials said Russia plans to isolate the key city of Severodonetsk in Luhansk region, the epicenter of the conflict
The fun part, “Ukrainian military officials said Russia plans” 🤔

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2022 7:53 utc | 314

Sorry to sound classist but:
this is what happens when you give people of middle or lower middle class stock higher education. People of working class stock would never get into such rubbish…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdDB8wU73NA

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 7:54 utc | 315

Happy Monday (13.06.2022) in Kherson, https://youtu.be/8zIWAxPI5IE

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2022 8:02 utc | 316

Odessa in the morning today, https://youtu.be/O6QJOx-GMOQ

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2022 8:11 utc | 317

„ for almost half a century, France stayed outside of NATO (approximately from 1960 to 2010).
Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 2:18 utc | 272
Yes, France left the military structures, but never the common geopolitical aims of the US: destroy the SU / Russia and any country that doesn’t obey to the western command.
Every war of the US was supported by France. And even Brzeziński knew, that France will always be on the side of the US, by lack of alternatives. All that European talk about a separate „security structure“ is wishfully thinking of offended nationalists. Europe can join the Eurasian powerblock or continue to feel superior on the US ticket of „full spectrum dominance“.
Until today there are no signs that this will break up. Except Hungary, Kroatia and Serbia may be.

Posted by: njet | Jun 13 2022 8:20 utc | 318

Fuel prices in Melitopol 2 days ago, https://youtu.be/FHYr08KMzIY
Pb95 at 74.38 rubles/litre, considering roughly 60 roubles per dollar, it is ~1.24$ per litre. In the next country, Poland, the Pb95 is nearly 8 zł/litre, that is ~1.82$/litre. Its better to have Russia in…😄
By the way, Pb95 and other types are much cheaper in Russia proper.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2022 8:25 utc | 319

the mysterious f-35 . lets not forget syria claimed a ancient s300 lock and hit. israel claimed a bird strike on the same day shogui was in syria. 2017 i think. f35 natural habitat is a hanger awaiting parts and design upgrades. my guess is russia just needs to train geese to fly various altitudes for air defence then.

Posted by: hankster | Jun 13 2022 8:26 utc | 320

Posted by: Roger | Jun 13 2022 7:33 utc | 310
“The 40-year era of falling interest rates in the West could be over, which is not good news for the financial economy and housing.”
Bloody good for those with savings accounts, though!

Posted by: AbjectSaver | Jun 13 2022 8:47 utc | 321

Every war of the US was supported by France.
Posted by: njet | Jun 13 2022 8:20 utc | 318
Not the invasion of Iraq in 2003. So that’s your theory collapsed in fragments.

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 13 2022 8:58 utc | 322

Karl luck #294

Putin always wanted to be part of Europe and rightfully so. It explains a lot of his kowtowing to the west over the years.
They never forgave him for taking back Russia from the evil financial predators of the west, under Gorbachev & drunken yelstin.
The only way this world has any future is to rid the world of Zionist capatialism. Here’s hoping.

That sounds desirable. As I understand it, Russia has declared a debt jubilee for the people in the east that have aligned their independent states with Russia. A good thing.
So legally if the only part remaining is still Ukraine by name in the west, then it is they who owe the IMF the duty to repay all those IMF loans and USA lend lease thingys. That sounds like a crippling Versailles redux treaty to me. But then the west was never shy of accepting nazi coin.
Then again if the entire Ukraine just vanishes in a Great People’s Victory there will be no debt owed by a nonexistent nation. That also sounds good to me.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 13 2022 9:23 utc | 323

Old Coot #304

Hurry! Buy now to support the American Red Cross in the 404!
https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/President-Volodymyr-Zelenskyy-Commemorative-Coin-p/ukraine.htm
Did the make a 1939 version for Jozef Beck?*
Coot
*Apologies for the poor analogy. I welcome another comparison more apropos.

The American Red Cross did you say?
Is that the same organisation that raised millions for earthquake relief in Haiti and built one house for the entire population? The balance was consumed as administration costs as I recall.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 13 2022 9:31 utc | 324

Then again if the entire Ukraine just vanishes in a Great People’s Victory there will be no debt owed by a nonexistent nation. That also sounds good to me.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 13 2022 9:23 utc | 323
The main thing, as with the USA, or a lot of places actually, is that the people not be made to pay the odious debt placed on them by financial parasites and corrupt non-governments.
That term has a ring to it: “financial parasites”, spread it around. What have your local financial parasites been up to?

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 13 2022 10:05 utc | 325

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 7:00 utc | 306
I believe you perfectly know that the actual “membership” of France was in no way similar to the condition of other countries.
Perhaps we’ll have to differ on this dude, but as far as I’m aware, the only real selling point of Nato is the collective self-defence part. I seriously doubt the Swedes and Finns are getting trying to get into Nato because they want American Generals who’ve lost every war they’ve fought* for
decades, to command their troops.
de Gaulle didn’t want American (or British or even Gods forbid(!), German) generals commanding French troops, but he sure as well wanted the collective defence part against the Soviets.
French “specialness” exists only in the French imagination I’m afraid.
*No, Granada and Panama do NOT count.

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 10:18 utc | 326

Apologies for the all italics post. There should have been a closing after the first paragraph.

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 10:19 utc | 327

@ostro 314
The Russians took out the northern bridge tween Lysychansk and the now isolated Severodonetsk industrial zone [Azot]. Allies have gate 2 (S?) Ukies gate 1 (N?). Two is the number of the guess which gate is pulling civilians out of the battle zone. Russia plans <=> Russia has done in this case, as in many others. It’s late + I’m a bit sodden, but IIRC Military Summary and DPAaaaasia and others reported this yesterday.
That whole eastern AFU salient is beginning to come apart. The once undersized Russian military (at ~1:1) is now defeating the AFU in detail. By remaining in contact while creaming anything that looks like command, the Russians may know more than the Ukrainians about their own AFU forces and certainly know more than US.
The Seversky-Donetsk River is not the barrier it once was and without sufficient artillery AFU can’t hold off multiple crossings whether at once, in a wave, in echelon or whatever it will be under Russian bombardment. The Allies have punctured both flanks at Popasnya and Izyum-Lyman. Not decisive in itself, if simply followed with the continuing Russian southeastward slide of the three armies from Izyum-Lyman into contact with Sloviansk-Siversky then the Lysychansk salient is tactically encircled. Essentially out of supply. All supply/escape routes will be at least partly off-road/overland/farm road and just about always exposed to artillery fire. Good luck with run away when throwing up a nice rooster tail of dust.
Not sure what Ukraine gets back from the 15 to 30k people put into their tenacious eastern defense.
Seems we might see sooner rather than later if there is anything up anyone’s sleeve west of the Dnieper.
@ostro 319 – Hmmmm roughly the same gasoline price here in western US. Perhaps the ptb are just having us all on with a bit of war porn + disaster capitalism whilst they’re about shearing the sheep + mowing the lawn + jacking up the baseline costs on us all.

Posted by: LeMoyne | Jun 13 2022 10:50 utc | 328

From Intelslava: https://t.me/intelslava/31094

Ukrainian militants learned to dig notably, but they are still far from their ancestors who dug up the Black Sea.
So let them practice. Soon, if the sea is needed, they will have to dig a new one for themselves.

ROTFL!! The reference is to a trench the Ukrainians dug.

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 10:59 utc | 329

Azovstal bunkers, exclusive 13.06.2022 https://youtu.be/gW9a16An9qc

Posted by: ostro | Jun 13 2022 11:07 utc | 330

Europe can join the Eurasian powerblock or continue to feel superior on the US ticket of „full spectrum dominance“. Except Hungary, Kroatia and Serbia may be.
Posted by: njet | Jun 13 2022 8:20 utc | 318

Serbia is (thanks God) not YET a member of EU.
Serbia does not want to become a member of NATO (God forbid).
In 1999 NATO bombed Serbia for 78 days (with “humanitarian” pretext based on lies) and without the approvance of UNSC.

Posted by: LongCovid | Jun 13 2022 11:22 utc | 331

Scorpion that comment of yours regarding Churchill was perhaps the best, in a literary sense, that I have had the pleasure of reading here.
Posted by: morongobill | Jun 13 2022 0:16 utc | 250

Agreed, thanks to you both.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 13 2022 11:25 utc | 332

“people can’t complain about gas prices….. if there’s no gas.” joe tzu
It’s really too bad that all the bullshit the US spews couldn’t be turned into fertilizer. We’d all be rich.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Jun 13 2022 11:25 utc | 333

@Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jun 12 2022 22:11 utc | 225
Oh really?????????????????
Question did your source of information provide full disclosure of a ‘monkeypox outbreak’ in the USSA in the Bush jnr era in 2002?

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 13 2022 11:31 utc | 334

Video by Russophone Ukrainian logger Yuri Podolyaka on Ukrainian Casualties in Russian – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2exHGAMITE
Ukrops have about 50,000 KIA with significant number of missing and wounded – about 100,000 irrecoverable losses , a human tragedy
Ukrainian government covering up their losses for morale, to confuse their allies and also to avoid paying compensation to bereaved relatives which would crash their state budget
Ukrainians are refusing to accept bodies of their fallen, and families are not given any news about the fates of their sons, fathers and brothers
currently they are losing at least 400 fatalities each day
Podolyaka feels that Russian figures for Ukrainian KIA are not exaggerated by much if at all – ratio between Ukrops and pro Russian in KIA is about 8 to one

Posted by: Aslangeo | Jun 13 2022 11:32 utc | 335

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 10:18 utc | 326
Well, since you admit a little bit that perhaps the fact doesn’t match so much with your claim that France was practicaly a nato member, you now have a new claim : you are a psychic, vou have read in the brain of the France Presidents, and you know what was the intent of France relation with nato.
Now, I’ll tell you the truth : the only ones in france who were afraid of Soviet Union were the wealthy. De Gaulle was not afraid. He never tried to forbide the powerful French Communist Party, for exemple. He did not care when Vietnam was going on the soviet side. He even publicly said that Vietnameses had the right to live as they see fit (and therefore the Vietnam war was unrightful, according to him).
You just projected on France your American obsession about Soviet Union.
By the way, I did not claim anything about french specialness. I only said that we don’t need you and your nato. You are the country who believes he’s so special that anybody needs him. You just said that.
Again, you were projecting your own psychopathology. Don’t worry, yourself is perfectly normal, from a statistical point of view, if considering the american demography.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 11:47 utc | 336

Scorpion @ 281
What oldhippie is going on about is called aristocracy. If you are just in love with ancien regime go stand in line to see the Queen. We have absolutely no idea who wrote Churchills books. To call Churchill a working man in any way shape or form is lunacy. Those who bought his books were the idiots who line up for royal pageants. What are you doing here as a monarchist?

Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 13 2022 11:53 utc | 337

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 13 2022 9:23 utc | 323

That sounds desirable. As I understand it, Russia has declared a debt jubilee for the people in the east that have aligned their independent states with Russia. A good thing.
So legally if the only part remaining is still Ukraine by name in the west, then it is they who owe the IMF the duty to repay all those IMF loans and USA lend lease thingys. That sounds like a crippling Versailles redux treaty to me. But then the west was never shy of accepting nazi coin.
Then again if the entire Ukraine just vanishes in a Great People’s Victory there will be no debt owed by a nonexistent nation. That also sounds good to me.

It’s been said over the course of many US military operations that the US would have been better off just dropping money to the civilians. I think that there’s something to be said of such. And when you think of it it’s pretty much how things operate on a regular basis: bribes, though to the “connected.” Speaking of…
I’d read that if the US were really interested in peace they’d have spent money on protecting Elensky from the Nazis. (yes, this would assume that Elensky wasn’t a puppet [Kolomoisky- perhaps, himself, a puppet of the US/West]])

Posted by: Seer | Jun 13 2022 12:03 utc | 338

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 21:15 utc | 203

But I am open to the possibility that the F35 is an exception to the 3 decade string of failures, hence my consistently saying it is unproven as opposed to a failure.

Ah! But it’s a matter of perspective. For the MIC it’s a HUGE success! That’s how the US wars have gone: “victory” is assessed based on how much looting of the US citizens has taken place (and to a large degree it’s about making sure that such monies aren’t applied to actual social programs).

Posted by: Seer | Jun 13 2022 12:09 utc | 339

Posted by: Roger | Jun 13 2022 7:33 utc | 310
“The 40-year era of falling interest rates in the West could be over, which is not good news for the financial economy and housing.”
I find that a statement hard to reconcile with historical fact. UK for example NEVER had double-digit interest rates until 1972 under the disastrous Edward Heath who used credit policy to accommodate OPEC oil price increases and pushed inflation to 23% by 1975. Thatcher used high interest rates to curtail M3 expansion. Volcker used high interest rates to suppress inflation in 1980s and UK had 15% rates in 1990s to handle ERM ejection.
So my niggle is with 40 as a number rather than your position which I agree with. The fact is interest rates were deliberately suppressed to fund Government deficits and floating exchange rates. Without recycled OPEC Petrodollars and Laundromat funds from former USSR and leakage through Macau and Hong Kong from China interest rates in New York and London would have been much much higher.
Without the Grand Larceny by Russian Oligarchs and Capital Smuggling out of China the West would have been unable to survive in 21st Century

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2022 12:12 utc | 340

You just projected on France your American obsession about Soviet Union.
Not an unfair point ! Of course USA and USSR were very similar in that each saw itself as the harbinger of modernity and sought to ensnare others within its orientation.
US cannot handle non-alignment. I believe that the US became more ideologically rigid and the diplomacy of the USSR more pragmatic once it had dispensed with the Comintern. Soviet diplomacy was also considerably more risk-averse and for obvious reasons wanted stability on its borders. US
Image is more like a strip miner.
There has always been an ideological position in USA to which rigid adherence is required and catechisms similar to those of CPSU have to be internalised. It makes me wonder how Yeltsin and Gorbachev forgot them, but vanity I suppose led them astray

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 13 2022 12:22 utc | 341

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 11:47 utc | 336
Are you deliberately pretending to be stupid as a game? Or is there no pretence?
What part of “France was always a Nato member do you not understand? It’s pretence of independence was always just that — a pretence to puff up La France.
And since Sarkozy, and certainly with your current clown Macron, (it’s hard to tell whether he or Zelensky is the more pretension little peacock) even the pretence of independence is gone.
As for obeying us, dude when the US says “Jump” you guys no longer say “how high, Sir” — nowadays what you say is “when can I come down, Sir”.
Heck, you’ve put on more sanctions against the Russians the US has. You remember that derogatory word MATA from the 60’s and 70’s? Meaning people who are “More American than Americans”.
That’s you lot nowadays. A sad pathetic bunch of kiss-asses who’re prepared to sell your own well being as long as some American pats you on the head and says “good boy”.
All euro-land are the Empire’s vassals. You’ll do what the Empire say. If the US is in a good mood they’ll let you pretend it was all your idea to do exactly what you’re told to do. LOL!
P.s. Oh and spare me the Trump/Biden are morons bit. I know that and I have no illusions that the tweedledum or tweedledee clowns in the White house amount to anything.

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 12:30 utc | 342

@Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jun 12 2022 22:11 utc | 225
Oh really?????????????????
Question did your source of information provide full disclosure of a ‘monkeypox outbreak’ in the USSA in the Bush jnr era in 2002?
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 13 2022 11:31 utc | 334

I never inconvenience myself with backing up any of my arguments with facts. We live in a post-fact world, doncha know. I could have posted a video clip from the movie Up, of the dogs yelling “Squirrel!”, I suppose.

Posted by: Kingsmeg | Jun 13 2022 12:37 utc | 343

If you are just in love with ancien regime go stand in line to see the Queen. We have absolutely no idea who wrote Churchills books. To call Churchill a working man in any way shape or form is lunacy. Those who bought his books were the idiots who line up for royal pageants. What are you doing here as a monarchist?
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 13 2022 11:53 utc | 337
On an ideal level, yes, am a monarchist but am no great fan of the Windsors or post-revolutionary European monarchy in general and the old aristocracy exists in mainly isolated pockets – often in very beautiful old rural areas where the aristos and the peasants live in mutual respect, even affection. Aristocracy is something that is baked into a culture over generations and can be a reservoir of good leadership and wisdom. The class system I grew up in in England had many virtues as well as problems.
What I don’t like about the current classless society is that it’s a lie. There will always be some sort of gradation which will always end up having some sort of upper, middle and lower. These are arbitrary on some level but also simply part of ‘objective reality.’
How the upper middle and lower sort themselves out has to do with the value system of any given culture and for that to become sophisticated promoting wisdom and virtue it needs multi-generational continuity over time. One culture might emphasize piety, another money, another sexual attractiveness, another warrior prowess. Of course complex societies have countless sub-groups (like those above) but all in all there ends up, over time, being an upper class involved with overall leadership and a lower, or working, class that has far many more population-wise growing the food, building the roads etc – perhaps 1000 to 1 roughly speaking – and a middle class of those who develop specialized skills and services like administration, law, medicine, commerce and so on.
The thing about monarchy to my mind is that a living monarch embodies the living, breathing heart of the entire society in the living form of an individual whose role is perceived by all members of the society in all the classes, thus the one and many principle can be well and truly embodied. There is One at the head of a ceremony whom all can observe. And because that One is not an idea or an ism or a cause or a committee (soviet) or an edict or a religious text but a living, breathing human then the society can have some mutual living connection grounded in that shared living reality versus abstractions.
Such connection also tends to involve sacred perception which is bordering on religious territory and so controversial in today’s hyper banal milieus. Perhaps the closest we come to it is in the worship of various celebrities though once in a while great leaders arise who embody some of those principles albeit without the institutional and contextual continuities that an established class system affords.
But it’s a subtle art and one maybe that can no longer be practiced with so many countries of hundreds of millions, two now with more than a billion. Things are always changing in the human realm….. When all is said and done most systems have their good and bad aspects and none are immune from system corruption over time, the bane of all good societies.
That said you do from time to time in Britain see a great outpouring of mutual connection which grips a large percentage of the country around royal events. This is not so much because of the personalities – though the Queen has by now earned respect and affection after 70 years on the job through thick and thin – but again because they are living, breathing focal points. When a group of people focus together on the same thing what the Chinese call ‘dzong’ chi is generated. We feel it at sports events or any great gatherings and especially at weddings. Perception is heightened, the group connection from shared focus raises awareness, intelligence and a sense of heart. Mismanaging this phenomenon is where religious cults go astray but it is a natural phenomenon that will happen one way or another.
So you can just relegate it to highly secular things like football and rock concerts or you can make high art out of it by having monarchs, Dukes and Lords and Ladies. It’s society as an art form which is life as an art form.
Not all bad…

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 12:38 utc | 344

We have absolutely no idea who wrote Churchills books.
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 13 2022 11:53 utc | 337
Now, I never heard that. Anything is possible in today’s wicked world but there are numerous accounts of how Churchill composed and I find it hard to believe they are all fake. Whether he wrote them or not it is true that he lived like a lord on his earnings as writer and painter so whoever wrote those books was a high talent indeed. Until a few decades ago – and perhaps still for all I know – he was by far the best selling non-fiction author in the English-speaking world with a unique voice. One of my favorite simple quotes:
“Thus I got into my bones the essential structure of the ordinary British sentence, which is a noble thing.” Winston Churchill.
And a story: one day as Prime Minister WSC was on the Houses of Parliament crapper downstairs in a stall. The Lord Privy Seal – some sort of antedeluvian sinecure role from medieval times attached to the Court – needed his signature as PM for something. A young aide, probably fresh down from Oxford, looked all over for the PM and finally located him in the ‘bog’ by the aromatic smoke rising from one of the stalls.
Mr. Prime Minister?
Harrumph!
Sorry to disturb you, Sir, but the Lord Privy Seal urgently requires your signature on a document of great Matter to the Crown!
Pause… puffing… smoke billowing… rustling….
Tell the Lord Privy Seal, finally comes the answer, that I am sealed in my Privy. And furthermore, I can only deal with one shit at a time!
The man had a way with words….
(and btw fwliw I very much enjoy yours here which nearly always zap me with a different perspective that cuts through a lot of fog, for which belated thanks…)

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 13:02 utc | 345

Herr Ringbone@303
Ukraine is and was full of Poles and Russians etc. But they are rom Ukraine: Conrad’s family owned estates and lived in eastern Ukraine, I seem to recall it was in the Poltava Oblast. But don’t sweat Turgenev was known as a French writer towards the end of his life!
Willow. One of the reasons that immigrants prefer the US to Mexico is that the US has comprehensively looted Mexico over the years (see Porfiro Diaz’s lament). Most recently it destroyed Mexican agriculture and mais production in the ‘Free Trade’ neo-liberal deal. Then of course it armed and protected the drug cartels which double up as death squads when students are going to meetings.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 13 2022 13:28 utc | 346

To a large degree it’s about making sure that such monies aren’t applied to actual social programs.
Posted by: Seer | Jun 13 2022 12:09 utc | 339
Or even worse to fair pay and benefits to significant numbers of American workers.

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 13 2022 13:46 utc | 347

…. nevertheless the tradition is that once you are at war you hang together until the war is won and you’ve drawn your last breath – no matter the cause – and in that there is honor.
In the end nearly all of us end up sacrificing for unworthy causes, all of us are swept up by currents or tempests far beyond our own ability to comprehend or influence and all of us find ourselves at some point standing side by side next to our brothers and sisters in some sort of internal or external struggle at which point all of us have to choose to stick together through thick and thin no matter the limitless barrage of unending bullshit descending upon us like the artillery raining down today on the hapless Ukrainian forces in their soon-to-be destroyed dugouts and bunkers.
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 0:56 utc | 259
I read you comment with interest as it is something that I was hearing in different forms since I was a kid. Today though I’m not so sure that I would agree with the bolded part.
To be willing to going against the grain is the greatest virtue as the other way around is far too easy. I don’t think there is any honor in following the crowd.
Would you be willing to stand by your words if you met the Ukies sitting in the Eastern trenches ? Could you keep a straight face doing that ? I for one could see no way to do that.
Link

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 13 2022 14:01 utc | 348

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 12:38 utc | 344
What a long-winded way to say that you have a superstitious fetish for vaginally-transmitted privilege.
“a living monarch embodies the living, breathing heart of the entire society”
Such a thing, does not exist. It is at best a metaphor, most likely simple romanticized superstition.
” a living, breathing human then the society can have some mutual living connection grounded in that shared living reality versus abstractions.”
A living, breathing human where the connection is: That human holds lifelong privilege simply for having been born, and everybody else must bow, because.
A “living reality” where they are pampered and siphon resources off the whole country (and elsewhere) simply for having been born through royal c*nt possibly maybe f*cked by royal c*ock.
Seriously, this is some high octane medievalist wanking.
You want a monarch, why don’t you get your own?
How the f*ck does this justify the rest of us having to bow before corrupt, inbred posh bastards?
Do you even pay any freaking attention to what actually existing royals actually do in their lives?
But of course, how can I expect a heideggerian nazi to have any contact with reality, when they’re perfectly satisfied with their own masturbatory fantasies?

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 13 2022 14:20 utc | 349

Would you be willing to stand by your words if you met the Ukies sitting in the Eastern trenches ? Could you keep a straight face doing that ? I for one could see no way to do that.
Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 13 2022 14:01 utc | 348
I am not sure what the above means exactly but I catch the drift of your overall comment and basically agree. I have a mild dyslexia when typing in these boxes and find often my sentences go astray but on re-reading I seldom notice until long after publishing. A bit strange… That one for example ended up saying something a bit different from what I meant which was:
at some point we have to stand with our companions in the foxhole, so to speak, whether or not the overall cause is without blemish. And the bullshit business is more about how no matter what is going on we can never really say we understand all the ins and outs but always there’s a high BS quotient in pretty much anything to do with public affairs, the community, even most families or other groups. So we spend our lives wading through our own and others bullshit but every once in a while we have to stand firm with our companions even if we cannot be sure if we are totally on the right. At that point standing with our companions IS the right side.
And of course what you say is also right: sometimes going against the consensus or the cause is what is called for.
No easy answers.
Ever!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 14:22 utc | 350

Seriously, this is some high octane medievalist wanking.
…..
But of course, how can I expect a heideggerian nazi to have any contact with reality, when they’re perfectly satisfied with their own masturbatory fantasies?
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 13 2022 14:20 utc | 349
Two excellent sentences! Very enjoyable! Though I suggest you lay off the onanism, Arganthonius, it’s creeping into your prose!!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 14:26 utc | 351

Scorpion 2281
You are saying exactly what I said. The definition of a peer is constitutional: Lord Blandford could sit in the Commons, if elected. So could Lord Palmerstone. The one holds a courtesy title the other an Irish peerage. Both were aristocrats and members of the nobility.
As to Churchill he was hated. One of the most unpopular men in England . The working class hated him because he hated them. As Home Secretary it was he who used the army against miners in Tonypandy. It was he who used every power of the state in 1926 to suppress the Miners /General Strike- he was the precursor of Thatcher in that respect. And the harbinger of the present degraded state.
Both the Tories and the Liberals saw him as an opportunist and a traitor, which he was. A rat he called himself.
He really was a caricature. It was he who had the honour of using poison gas to bomb Iraqi villages. He genuinely believed that they were inhabited not by men but by vermin. He was a Zionist too who saw Israel as an outpost for white european imperialism.
He was an anti-communist. The first to organise armies to invade Russia during the revolution. Many of the faults that distorted the Russian Revolution were the direct consequence of the infant having had to fight for its life as foreigners recruited Fifth columns and separatist armies to attack it. Naturally the victor became suspicious and defensive.
His anti-communism never diminished- more than any other Statesman he was responsible for the Cold War and bears a share of the responsibility for the millions of casualties in the wars its spawned.
Nor was he a patriot. It was he who insisted on turning an alliance with the United States into a subordination. He loved Empire so much he kept it alive, even as he delivered his countrymen into its bondage. With the end of the Empire Britain could have become free at last, for the empire had always begun in the northern slums, the East End and the theft of the land from the peasants.
His one saving grace is that he was a fountain of cheap Macauleyesque rhetoric which he spouted in unending streams, in part to save his brain the trouble of thinking.
As to his books it was widely understood that he employed teams of researchers and drudges to cobble them together. Does anyone ever read them? As works of history they are virtually useless.
The Churchill cult has done England unending harm- it nourished racism and russophobia at a time when, the decks being cleared of empire, a future emphasising the positive aspects of English history, the tradition of popular resistance, the Miltonic respect for freedom, the pioneering communal traditions-the cooperatives and the Trade Unions- from the homeland of Marx and Engels, which it was in reality, the hatred of Empire, the support for Irish and Italian freedom among the people. All the counterbalances to the disgraceful tradition of piracy and violent oppression- buried in the combination of forces that Churchill rallied after an armed electorate had thrown him out.
The carnage in Ukraine began in 1946 in Fulton Missouri and the likelihood is that Churchill was not really sober when he made his speech. It is no accident that GW Bush had a bust of WS Churchill in his office.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 13 2022 14:38 utc | 352

Posted by: KyleKoffler | Jun 13 2022 12:30 utc | 342
You are my best toy. Look at how you are going mad, when I only told that we don’t need you.
Your megalomania blinds you. Only the Poles and the Baltic’s chihuahua really obey the US. The others deceived you, and you understood nothing.
Let’s consider for instance MacDonald. It’s definitely gone from Russia. Today all the shops are running again, but all the profits of the trade will now go in russian pockets only.
Now compare it to the french automaker Renault. It sold its plants to russian interest for almost nothing. It looks like a 100% loss as for the MacDonald shops.
But the reality is that the Renault’s sale of its russian plants is faked. The sale contract has a legal clause which gives Renault the right to revert the sale and get back the ownership of its plants.
Now look at the weapons. Bernarhdt explained how Germany is actually sending nothing but unusable weapons. France sent neither actual stuff, but half a dozen CAESAR, whose only consequence is to demonstrate in real combat how this howitzer is effective, and boost export sales.
By the way, France and Germany continue buying almost the same amount as before in oil and natural gas. We only made lot of promises, hahaha, to reduce purchase latter.
We never ridiculized ourselves beging Venezuela for oil, as the US did. Do you know that Amerika is currently the laughing stock of planet Earth ? Don’t you ?
So, you had not understood that it was less trouble to deceive US, to fake support and obeyance, and quietly wait for the war plan of the american genius to crumble ?
You were easy to deceive, because you prefer your parallel universe where Amerika is still Master Of The World.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 14:42 utc | 353

No easy answers.
Ever!
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 14:22 utc | 350
I fully agree.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 13 2022 14:44 utc | 354

@Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 7:45 utc | 311
Impressive chart, a drop to 3000 looks quite possible!

Posted by: Roger | Jun 13 2022 15:00 utc | 355

You were easy to deceive, because you prefer your parallel universe.
Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 13 2022 14:42 utc | 353
Do you actually believe the Western plutocracy is unaware of all that? do you not understand for whom the deception is intended?
It is to be pushed by the MSM and swallowed by its swallowers, who are the majority in every country of that plutocracy.

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 13 2022 15:47 utc | 356

@ Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 12:38 utc | 344
first off, thanks for saying all that… as a canuck whose ancestry was forced off the land in the highlands back in the late 1700’s, i have a different take on the monarchy then you.. it is a system that is very much about money and power and retaining this power… frankly it seems to work for those on the upper end, but not for those on the bottom…. that this is about anything other then money and power – you would have to do a lot to convince me otherwise… i don’t have a favourable view of this class or caste system that britian and yourself nurture.. in fact i wish to see its complete downfall… i don’t have high regard for the queen or any of the royal family.. i think they have contributed to so much hardship and suffering, in spite of all the pomp and optics surrounding the royal family.. so – we see if very differently… have you seen that video on the city of london? i suggest you check it out, if you haven’t…. it gives more insight into all of this as i see it.. cheers james
The Spider’s Web: Britain’s Second Empire

Posted by: james | Jun 13 2022 16:00 utc | 357

Bevin@346
Calling Conrad Ukrainian on the basis of geography is like calling my German-speaking father a Czech because he was born in the Sudetenland (then part of the Third Reich). I suspect that Conrad would have refuted any Ukrainian identity, and that no one would have imputed any such identity to him during his life.
In any case, it is a moot point. Conrad wrote his greatest works in English, and as such I am barely willing to grant him even Polish identity. He belongs to us, the English speakers 😉

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Jun 13 2022 16:40 utc | 358

If you fail to plan, double down on failure. joe tzu.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Jun 13 2022 16:56 utc | 359

Sponge is meaningless. Its turning the sponge into titanium plate, sheet, forgings, then there is the machining.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 13 2022 4:05 utc | 288
O rly?
PeterAU @288 is right. There is a lot more to the titanium supply issue than first meets the eye.
Posted by: powerandpeople | Jun 13 2022 7:22 utc | 308
So am I. I can see from the ore data that delivery of finished titanium goods to BOEING spec’n is a complex process. That’s why I broke down publicly available data by supply chain/production process (ores; sponge; metal: mill, machining) AND added a disclaimer to “listicle” rankings AND “COVID-PUTIN Trade War sanctions“. I expected “listicle” discrepancies, based just on research attempts in the past 60 days to verify FAO biblical proportions of Ukraine “GRAINS” blockade AND export to AFRICA MY 2021/2022. Guess what? Circular references to USDA estimates and omitted RU (+ CN, IN, EU[!], etc) mt “grain” or fertilizers exports to AFRICA.
From Laurie Meadows article which does not answer my original questions for SwissArmyMan @ 202–(1) What’s your source? and (2) Have [Boeing’s] suppliers offset 30% [RU] shortfall per unit? :

Russia is not listed in the US Geological Survey data on tonnage of titanium production. The UGS gives its data in weight of titanium dioxide, rather than ore containing a certain percentage of titanium oxide. Perhaps Russia’s reserves are simply being air-brushed out. Even so, Russia is the worlds third largest producer of ‘smelted’ (sintered) titanium ‘sponge’, 33,000 metric tonnes per year. China is the worlds largest producer (110, 000 tonnes) [*]. Japan is second largest titanium sponge producer (50,000 tonnes).

*I had surmised, despite disparate sources, that CHINA holds #1 upstream and down positions. And the funny thing is, no sooner had I begun googling titanium fabricators (metal: mill, machining) than GOOG started serving me ads from Xometry (CN).

USA mainly imports titanium ore from South Africa (27%) Madagascar (18%), Australia (15%) and Mozambique (15%). China, which has the worlds largest titanium ore [RAW GOODS] – is also a massive titanium ore consumer. […] China also imported 3.6 million tonnes of titanium mineral concentrate in 2021, mainly from Mozambique (32%), Australia (14%), Vietnam (13%), and Kenya (9%). [SEE STATISTA chart] While China exported [“]titanium-based[“] manufactured products [INTERMEDIATE & FINISHED GOODS] it remains a nett importer [sic] of its own resource [sic].

That CHINA does not practice vertical monopolies, but stimulates intermediate manufacture (eg. plastics, textiles, semi) through RCEP, ASEAN, BRI supply chain which its exporters ship to westworld is not news.

The EU banned the sale and trade in [EU TITANIUM] aircraft and aircraft parts in February 2022. Will the American [BOEING] and European [AIRBUS] part manufacturing trade return? That is really ‘will the American and EU ‘sanctions’ end’? If [[SUPPLIERS] ‘tool up’ to make specific parts for specific airline models, as Boeing did, it is a big financial blow if you have to walk a way from it.

Sanctions also impose a “big financial blow” on suppliers’ production capacity, material utilization, and CapEx to capitalize new orders to BOEING spec. So.
If y’all can’t identify likely substitutes for Boeing’s RU firms, don’t be a dick. Just say so.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 13 2022 17:09 utc | 360

Posted by: james | Jun 13 2022 16:00 utc | 357
first off, thanks for saying all that… as a canuck whose ancestry was forced off the land in the highlands back in the late 1700’s, i have a different take on the monarchy then you.. it is a system that is very much about money and power and retaining this power… frankly it seems to work for those on the upper end, but not for those on the bottom…. that this is about anything other then money and power – you would have to do a lot to convince me otherwise… i don’t have a favourable view of this class or caste system that britian and yourself nurture.. in fact i wish to see its complete downfall… i don’t have high regard for the queen or any of the royal family.. i think they have contributed to so much hardship and suffering, in spite of all the pomp and optics surrounding the royal family.. so – we see if very differently… have you seen that video on the city of london? i suggest you check it out, if you haven’t…. it gives more insight into all of this as i see it.. cheers james
The Spider’s Web: Britain’s Second Empire”
+++++++++++++++++++
Will go through the video though generally prefer reading to videos. Thank you.
I have not been defending the British monarchy or even European and am rather discussing things in a more abstract or ideal fashion much like communists do when admitting that a good example of true communism hasn’t happen yet but might one day.
Also, clearly many things went wrong with the feudal system but for particular and widely varying reason. One can conclude it’s just a bad system. But representative democracies in the West are bad and getting much worse rapidly. Again there are various and particular reasons (though these might be impossible to agree on and/or understand clearly) but one could just generalize in the same way and scrap the whole thing.
My main point is that whether a society admits it and plays with it or not there are always different classes but there are different ways of dealing with this reality. Every system has to balance core imperatives such as stability, sufficient food, order, continuity of culture from generation to generation so that you can grow up in and chart a course for your life through any given society, the ability to change when needed in creative, progressive ways and the ability to deal with crime and/or political corruption undermining the community’s core values. It matters not whether it is feudal, fascist, communist, socialist or the old Law from Genghis Khan, all such configurations have to deal with those universal issues.
To date I’m not aware of any that has proven foolproof. Some seem to last for several centuries, but most far less.
Finally to challenge you just a little about your example from the 1700’s etc., do you think the obvious greed and corruption was due to the system itself which by its nature would always end up with corrupt Lords or did corrupt Lords run rampant over the society they were supposed to be leading and the people were not able to stop them.
I know very little of that period apart from generally gathering that most Scots (and Irish in a different nation) were extremely poor and their lairds were bastards with tyrannical life and death powers. So clearly for whatever reasons it was terrible. I get that.
Ultimately all systems depend upon having a considerable majority of the population being of good will and the society generally having a positive, disciplined, cheerful and humane gestalt. Absent that and no system works; with that and most systems will work as long as they can guard against parasitical elements which always arise in any situation where a group starts to pull ahead and generate wealth and power.
Just to be clear: I am not advocating for castrated European monarchical powers. The traditional monarch is the one who protects the people from any abuses by the peerage, the lords etc. who in their own domains are like little kings. If they became tyrants the Monarch was the one who could chop them down to size or simply banish them. Similarly, if the monarch became a tyrant the barons had the power to overthrow him. One man is always quite vulnerable in many different ways.
Now we have replaced living individual humans with systems and committees. Personally I think this encourage far worse corruption which goes further and takes much more time first to recognize and then to address. But I might be wrong. Again: all systems have both virtues and failings as far as I can tell and ultimately it comes down to good will, and a good balance between stable continuity (conservative/traditionalist) and ability to change when needed (flexible, sane adaptability). It’s quite simple, but remarkably rare to pull off well.
Seems like Putin is doing a good job but it’s really hard to say for those of us who have never been to Russia and don’t speak the language to know one way or another. And what happens when he exits? RF is a young republic (or whatever it is) and it will be a while before that sort of power transition dynamic develops a track record. We wish them well.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 18:18 utc | 361

Posted by: james | Jun 13 2022 16:00 utc | 357
I would say this whole City of London business is an example of upper middle class elites having overthrown the old feudal aristocracy and set up a Money Power network instead. I think it mainly benefits the ones who run, is secretive and essentially dishonest. A king has to walk out in public among his subjects and be answerable to them as well as to the nation’s elites. This City business is far worse. IMO. But if you offering that as an example of monarchy, sorry I don’t get it; seems entirely different to me…

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 18:23 utc | 362

A king has to walk out in public among his subjects and be answerable to them as well as to the nation’s elites.
Lol no he categorically doesn’t.
Walk in public probably yes.
Answerable to the public and the elites?
What the fuck are you talking about?
Seriously where the fuck ever do you dig this tripe out from?
Do you have the slightest inkling of the sort of legal status monarchs tend to have?

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 13 2022 21:34 utc | 363

The Churchill cult has done England unending harm- it nourished racism and russophobia at a time when, the decks being cleared of empire, a future emphasising the positive aspects of English history, the tradition of popular resistance, the Miltonic respect for freedom, the pioneering communal traditions-the cooperatives and the Trade Unions- from the homeland of Marx and Engels, which it was in reality, the hatred of Empire, the support for Irish and Italian freedom among the people. All the counterbalances to the disgraceful tradition of piracy and violent oppression- buried in the combination of forces that Churchill rallied after an armed electorate had thrown him out.
The carnage in Ukraine began in 1946 in Fulton Missouri and the likelihood is that Churchill was not really sober when he made his speech. It is no accident that GW Bush had a bust of WS Churchill in his office.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 13 2022 14:38 utc | 352
I always post too late in these threads. But thank you, I was going to write about his psychopathic disregard for Australian soldiers in both world wars. But that is just a blip on his whole record of evil.
I have to wonder if the Nazis loved the aristocracy too, to my mind the English deep state is their aristocracy including banksters and I refute that the British Empire died at all, all that happened was a “merger and acquisition with the rising US Empire. The Queen sits atop an empire of massive international holdings, no real need for the royal title except for distraction and her special comfort and separation from the hordes, for she is chair and CEOof an old and very powerful multinational.
And it seems to be more obvious as the days go by that Nazis and the still extant old Empires use the same methods and have the same goals. IE a ruling class of superior humans.
The death of the old world order in all of its permutations cannot come soon enough.

Posted by: K | Jun 13 2022 21:36 utc | 364

@ Scorpion | Jun 13 2022 18:18 utc | 361 / 362
thank you for a response which smacks of integrity, honesty and forthrightness… i appreciate that… i don’t really disagree with anything you say @ 361, so maybe i need to remain open minded to alternative viewpoints on most topics, including the monarchy… i guess i see it as an anachronism or out of place at this time and place, but one could say – which is sort of how i am reading your post – how corporations have now replaced the monarchy and they are indeed much worse..
regarding the spiders web video and your commentary @ 362, yes – it is upper middle class elites that are running this, but the monarchy must have known and accepted this as a part of ”doing business” which again goes back to what exactly their role is in protecting or helping those on the lower end? i just can’t see how we move forward towards a more equable and fair system for everyone, short of some form of socialism which seems to be the last thing the capitalists and corporations want or support… the idea of paying taxes, is also the idea of supporting the system for all those included, not just for rich people…
i will acknowledge i am idealistic…. thank you again for your response.. i appreciate it… cheers james

Posted by: james | Jun 13 2022 21:48 utc | 365

I have to wonder if the Nazis loved the aristocracy too
Posted by: K | Jun 13 2022 21:36 utc | 364
Lol, ask Scorpion, who’s constantly flip-flopping between extolling the virtues of nazism and praising the merits of monarchy 🤢

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 13 2022 22:28 utc | 366

@ K | Jun 13 2022 21:36 utc | 364
hey k! i agree with you in your basic thrust of ideas…

Posted by: james | Jun 13 2022 22:30 utc | 367

The Soviet Union did not dissolve voluntarily. A referendum done earlier in 1991 showed that the vast majority of the citizens of the Soviet Union wanted it to remain intact. It was three men who signed the paper dissolving the USSR against the wishes of its people, that is the heads of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.
They were traitors paid off by the US, and the citizens of the former USSR have paid for it dearly since then.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 13 2022 22:44 utc | 368

I have to wonder if the Nazis loved the aristocracy too
Posted by: K | Jun 13 2022 21:36 utc | 364
I don’t think the Nazis like George Vl very much. He declared war on Germany.

Posted by: dh | Jun 13 2022 23:19 utc | 369

Herr Ringbone@358
I was making a joke. Conrad would have realised that.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 14 2022 0:17 utc | 370

I m afraid that due to the exceptionalistan s old, historical custom, the F35s could be wrapped up in shiny, glowing paper laced with red ribbons and delivered to the Ukies.

Posted by: augusto | Jun 14 2022 1:01 utc | 371

Living under a monarchy is nowhere near as magical and infused with mutual bonding as you make it out to be, Scorpion. I’ve lived under an absolute monarchy from the Persian Gulf and, granted while my childhood in an ‘ex-pat community’ was quite spoiled and comforted in the ever-present knowledge that we could one day leave (if nothing went wrong), one of the first things you learn even as a child is life is cheap and dependent upon the whims of greater, very arbitrary, powers. The religious police, the public right arm of nobility (who were immune for their own games), also brought looming tension to this magical mutual bonding you fantasize.
Your dreams are just that. Better to be disillusioned now before you seriously get hurt chasing phantoms. Remember, your life is cheap!, their discomfort unbearable. You know not that of which you ask.

Posted by: JR whenDallasdreamt | Jun 14 2022 1:59 utc | 372

Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 13 2022 15:47 utc | 356
I can’t guess which one of these deception you are speaking about :
-France or Germany is sending real combat weapon
-the sanction are real, they are the root cause of the stag/inflation
-US is Master Of The World

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Jun 14 2022 3:30 utc | 373

Hey, everyone:
Just FYI, Bobolinski, VTobserver, sln2002, NemesisCalling, and CitizenFitz are a Neo-Nazi tag-team using MoA as a recruitment site, trying to suck in gullible youth by appearing to engage in “debate” which they will then expand with the “esoteric wisdom” of Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist racialist and anti-Jew lies.
These aren’t “fellow posters”, these are Nazi recruiters.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jun 14 2022 4:25 utc | 374

A few day ago I was goaded into responding to some friends who believed that Putin had compared himself to Peter the Great – I’d have believed Catherine (lol) -but I agreed I would be surprised if he was claiming kingship and imperial destiny. The proof I was supplied was a Groaniad column written by some literature degreed hoodlum writing copy for the presstitutes who grovel around looking to deliver whatever oral and anal pleasures to these worthies daily. The point of his speech and where it was give at Spif was completely ignored with the ‘look a squirrel’ diversion of he ‘Appeared’ to say…😆
Obviously the claim was a lie.
Anyway I responded with a barrage of commentary which pretty much proved the surrender is not far off and the losses of Ukrainians are massive with abandoned dead.
The western mindset cultivated through daily mass media hypnosis and advertising hoardings urging the gullible into making ourselves poorer faster than the government and cartels can do by investing in ever more colourful crypto tulip bubbles, has led them into being a crowd going over a cliff together – they suddenly sense doom.
I have been urging most to get out of all these speculative bubble and most Western shares. These who haven’t hedged are angry. With me! With Putin, with the whole world and themselves but won’t admit that they were fooled by BrexShit, by Bozo, by hovvid, by the actor Ellen Sky and nato!
The desperation of their situation they feel is saveable only by a Russian defeat!
They come up with all sorts of coping excuses like the one quoted above.
The funniest one is that nato hasn’t been involved in the Ukraine, and if they only were it would be all over for the Russian forces in minutes! 🤣 they cite that Russian airforce reportedly took hits early on i. The SMO and has been destroyed!😂
The three bags full Stoltenberg has changed his tune so fast no one has noticed.
Newspapers are following with ex – defence bods being rolled out to reclaim face saving politician bashing to preserve their martial aristo hold on military strategy.
My next salvo will be that – you ain’t seen nothing yet of the Russian Airforce, only what Russia wants to show.
There are plenty of theatres where that strategic and tactical force will roll. I quite fancy a spanking being handed to the Natzos in their latest escalations in Syria, Yemen etc as places where Mr FK inzhell and family isn’t needed! Also when Israel’s super plooper F35’s have multiple ‘bird hits’ as they finally get handed their just desserts for a decade of Russian killing in Syria. And for sure in the fast takeover of Odessa which is Russian and where people were burnt alive and from where a supposed anti ship May sailed were launched. Which fully sealed its fate.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 14 2022 7:48 utc | 375

@
“ I have to wonder if the Nazis loved the aristocracy too
Posted by: K | Jun 13 2022 21:36 utc | 364
I don’t think the Nazis like George Vl very much. He declared war on Germany.
Posted by: dh | Jun 13 2022 23:19 utc | 369 “
Ha ha – look up Mitfords, the top Masonic lodges where Mussolini and co were all promoted to top circles in the 20/30’s , Prince and Princess Michael of Kunt ..
The aristo ‘Spods’ are the fascists and.Nazis who enrolled AH and ran him. Much like The current Uke clowns.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 14 2022 7:57 utc | 376

The US governments involvement in Ukraine was meant for two reasons IMO:
-Install a puppet regime in a country that is significantly more corrupt than the likes of Mexico and Colombia and use it as a money laundering hotspot for their powerful donors and themselves.
-To create a battering ram against Russia by building a powerful army and stirring anti Russian sentiment among the population by actively supporting far right nationalists to lead the cause. This bull wark was meant to eventually lead to an armed conflict with Russia which they expected to win with “crushing sanctions” and the support of NATO either actively or indirectly involved.
Having completely failed the collective West has gotten punched in the face and is now flailing to somehow regain control over the situation, however it’s arrogance and self entitlement is hindering it’s ability to think rationally while steering towards economic and societal suicide in the process.

Posted by: Samco | Jun 14 2022 10:00 utc | 377

@376 For sure the Nazis had a lot of supporters in high places in Britain. Mainly because they were anti-communist. The Duke of Windsor (Edward V111) was one. But his brother George was not a fan.

Posted by: dh | Jun 14 2022 13:08 utc | 378

I thought this thread was over yesterday after a long pause so closed the tab. But in just reading through I was going to mention what the following, and last comment does:
@376 For sure the Nazis had a lot of supporters in high places in Britain. Mainly because they were anti-communist. The Duke of Windsor (Edward V111) was one. But his brother George was not a fan.
Posted by: dh | Jun 14 2022 13:08 utc | 378
Bevin makes long erudite posts extolling the virtues of communism and blames all problems in post revolutionary Russia on attacks by foreigners without addressing an earlier challenge namely : what about the 20 to 50+ million murdered Christians?
To my mind it seems eminently reasonable that many in Europe were deeply concerned about this to the point that they became fierce anti Communists. No doubt many had their own baggage but their position is not entirely incomprehensible.
Has communism proven itself superior to the old order it brutally overthrew with the initial funding and ideological support of many western bankster elites? Personally I think not. That doesn’t absolve capitalists or democracies or monarchies in the slightest. They all evidence huge shortcomings.
Generally speaking I believe that revolutions founded by elite networks and involving mass murder are a bad thing. We are going to be facing this – if indeed we are not already – in the West very soon.
My fear is that there is now ongoing a deliberately engendered collapse following which malevolent elites are going to impose a new, internationally coordinated work wide polity which will involve the death of millions. Maybe Eurasia is stepping forward to protect humanity from these demons or maybe they are allied with them. I honestly cannot tell.
But I suspect that any good new system has to include virtues from traditional ways whilst also introducing new and better ones. Demonizing everything from the past, though easy to do, will not engender good outcomes.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 14 2022 18:17 utc | 379

@ Scorpion | Jun 14 2022 18:17 utc | 379
good commentary scorpion.. thanks for saying all that.. some of us are still following the thread!

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 18:50 utc | 380