Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
The open thread for other issues is here.
Back to Main
June 12, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-85
Comments
“Sikorski obviously needs psychiatric help.” the pessimist@62
He’s married to Anne Applebaum- the idiot’s Robert Conquest- so he probably needs help.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 12 2022 17:20 utc | 101
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 16:20 utc | 64
“About F35s, why doesn’t any of those super-duper F35s never fly near the Russian border?”
How would anyone know if they did? Anyway, I though they were Stealth Submarines.
Posted by: JohnT. | Jun 12 2022 17:21 utc | 102
c1ue @80
OK, my bad. I was responding to somebodys question why F-35 does not fly near russian borders. No need to give them Intel.
ButI I agree that F-35 ability to gain air superiority is, lets just say untested.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:21 utc | 103
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 12 2022 15:32 utc | 47
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 15:30 utc | 46
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 12 2022 15:17 utc | 41
1) 404 has passed its military peak. If the reporting is correct another 20,000 troops are held in the Donbass kessel with this figure being reduced by 3,500 per week, possibly more. The number of desertions and defecting forces (your choice a) remain in situ and be killed or wounded b) attempt to escape and be shot in the back by an AZOV commissar or c) what is left of the unit makes a collective decision to defect / surrender to the RF. I think option c wins) will likely begin to increase exponentially as the end game becomes apparent to all. The remaining forces are not Teutonic knights who swore a blood oath to the leader. They are women and old men plucked out of their territory and shipped off to die for Z.
20,000 / 3,500 gives 5 weeks. By the week of July 10 to 16th the endgame in the Donbass should be evident to all.
2) November is 4 months from the above date. It doesn’t matter who Biden attempts to blame. Once credibility is lost and the ground truth is inescapable, the public will reject the whole stinking mess while the world looks on.
3) The sanctions have not yet begun to bite. Shadowstats asserts the true rate of inflation is 18% (the criteria were altered at the time of the last inflationary period so as to deliberately mask the true rate of inflation). Policy decisions on O&G will decrease domestic FF. The ROW will be in competition for the unsanctioned FF supply required to replace the 30% RF share. It will be 3 years before increased supply comes on line and even this is questionable. The US consumes 40% of the world’s FF so the effects will be greatest in America.
4) FED policy decisions are duplicating the insanity that brought on the 1929 depression. Bank credit is tightening. Interests rates will move higher. The cost of finance will move move higher and this coupled with FF price increases will have significant effect on all economic sectors. The FED will be unable to print its way out of this crisis. The dollar will devalue, T-bills will sell off, and the FED will raise interest rates higher to forestall panic selling.
As has been said in response to the question “How did you go bankrupt” the answer is “slowly and then suddenly.” I believe “suddenly” will occur before November.
To put it in the simplest of terms. We exist within a complex series of interdependent relationships. This complexity is not entirely known. So called leaders have been unilaterally making massive changes in a complex system whose central characteristic is the fact today repeats yesterday and all change is incremental. The new world will dawn and its birth is going to be painful. Beyond that I doubt it possible to fully delineate the outcome.
Cheers!
Posted by: Sushi | Jun 12 2022 17:25 utc | 104
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 12 2022 17:06 utc | 92
> Soviet Union collapsed 1991
Soviet Union did not collapse but got dissolved voluntarily, like Czechoslovakia.
Nobody says Czechoslovakia collapsed.
But Libya and Yugoslavia, now they did collapse indeed. Unfortunately.
Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires collapsed too…
Now British empire, did it collapse or it just expired and withered away?
Posted by: hopehely | Jun 12 2022 17:26 utc | 105
” …regarding Churchill, it has always mystified me why the UK makes of him someone to emulate.”
Bemildred@39
Let’s be fair now: the people of the UK, in polling booth assembled had their chance to deliver judgement on Churchill in 1945.
And they did: Churchill, leading the Conservative and Unionist Parties won 197 seats. Clement Atlee, leading Labour, won 393 seats.
Churchill had fought hard, on his war record, to be elected. And he lost in a landslide.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 12 2022 17:29 utc | 106
@ 84 & 95
Ursula VD Leyen is ‘not’ a nut job, she’s an American Agent, a traitor to Europe. Annalena Anus Baerbock another, having completed her finishing school in America.
European Parliaments are filled with such vermin; the most vociferous of all anti-Russian paid America Agents.
The German business community have a choice, evict these Agents and sign an Agreement with Russia OR to watch Germany sink into irrelevance, a long depression.
The German people, like their Euro brethren are too stupid to see the forest for the trees.
Posted by: WTFUD | Jun 12 2022 17:29 utc | 107
Posted by: bevin | Jun 12 2022 17:29 utc | 106
OK. As an Amurkin, I need to be careful about casting aspersions anyway.
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 12 2022 17:34 utc | 108
This (from the non Ukraine thread) is a winner:
“Conscripting wenches
Puts men in the trenches”
Joe Tzu
Sushi@9
Posted by: bevin | Jun 12 2022 17:37 utc | 109
Down South | Jun 12 2022 12:35 utc | 4
____
Thanks, as always, for good news
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 12 2022 17:37 utc | 110
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 17:07 utc | 93
> A loan which is never repaid, or repayable, is a gift.
A loan which is never repaid, or repayable, is a bad debt write-off which amounts to capital/asset/revenue /income loss.
Posted by: hopehely | Jun 12 2022 17:40 utc | 111
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 15:22 utc | 42
You measure value of oil in the exchange of currency. The value is gold. Russia now demands gold to unfriendlies and if they aren’t coughing it up they will be soon. Gold and oil have maintained the same cost/amount ratio for a very long time. There are short periods where it changes, but they always revert.
Russia has set up a new type of monetary system and is offering everyone a chance to join before its too late. It destroys much in the west when it is fully implemented, and thus the reason for this war.
It is the Russian currency that is seeing an increase in value. This has led to the understanding of many nations in this world that a currency must be backed by something to be strong. Russia is using many commodities needed by most nations. The idea of unbacked currency is a modern invention. They always fail because of printing so much it has only the value of paper.
Same as it ever was.
Posted by: Tard | Jun 12 2022 17:41 utc | 112
WTFUD @107
Sure she is. And Merkel is a Russian agent. After all, from ddr and accepted Nord stream2.
Lord have mercy!
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:42 utc | 113
I don’t recall the date of Ukraine’s first IMF loan – perhaps around 2000 – but since then it has been sinking deeper and deeper into a morass of foreign debt which has accelerated since 2014. I think it was at 83% of nominal GDP in 2021 (129.7b USD). Post conflict it will be impossible to service. Ukraine and Kazakhstan should have been the most prosperous post-soviet states.
Here is the story starting around 1990 (I believe posted several times here before)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hgeZilgRCU
In Patrick Lancaster’s video on Kherson agriculture they visited an irrigation pumping station where the pumps had been stripped out and sold for scrap. Likely this was soviet era public infrastructure and many state enterprises met a similar fate.
Wiki’s Ukraine economy page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine
The table of 15 largest companies is interesting.
Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 12 2022 17:46 utc | 114
Moscow has responded saying Sikorski obviously needs psychiatric help.
Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 12 2022 16:15 utc | 62
————————–
Along with his wife Anne Applebaum of Wash Post…😋
————————————————————
F-35, F-16, f-22 raptor and so on…
Their GPS and other software gets jammed by the Russian electronic warfare, so they don’t come near the Russian border by hundreds of kms.
While, the Russian war planes cross the so-called airspace of the unfriendly countries, or fly low above NATO warships, none of the NATO warplanes can do that over Russian warships, or even any Russian ship. On February 12th, a Russian frigate kicked out an American submarine near Kuril islands, for example. This is not because the US/NATO act nicely, but because they are afraid of Russia, period!
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 17:46 utc | 115
Tard @112
Sure, very modern. We just have to see how it goes.
https://www.thoughtco.com/the-invention-of-paper-money-195167
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:48 utc | 116
the capability of the F35
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 16:53 utc | 80
is joke even in the USA. I do not understand why the idea that F-35 persists in some US American imaginations as a non plus ultra technology. I do not understand why anyone assumes that any NATO-member (only qualified buyers, eg. Finland but not Turk*) would necessarily rely on that junk for “air superiority” or to replacee “air defense” systems rather than disassemble a few PLUS operating manual if only to acquire parts for proprietary R&D.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 17:52 utc | 117
ostro@ 115
That heartland of russia, Kuril islands 🙂
Anyhow , NATO planes of course buzz russian ships all the time.
One russian ship everybody is afraid, is Admiral Kuznetsov. Thats one bad muthafucka!!
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:56 utc | 118
rubles so the “loss” is really just less profit, but still…
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 15:22 utc | 42
You miss one detail, which is called in RuNet “quality of (Russia’s) dollar”
When Russia is exporting oil/gas whatever she can do it for some of the reasons:
1. Line up some fatcat pocket. They used to keep their pockets in the “civilized west” and in Western currency. Recently west spectacularly robbed such fatcats. Keeping western hyperinflation “cut painted paper” and keeping it in robbing West does not look very secure a saving.
2. Execute an order given by western masters. Hopefully, no more.
3. Buy something needed and valuable in return.
And here snowballing sanctions kick in. No matter how many euros/dollars would Russia accumulate – there is only so much of worthy goods she can buy.
Putin’s decision to sell in rubble has to be escalated: western traders should has it as their liability to find worthy goods and find way to move them into Russia and sell there.
Until that Russia’s export should be naturally declining, because what is the point of accumulating “bad quality” dollars we can not exchange for goods?
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 12 2022 17:59 utc | 119
@Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 17:10 utc | 94
The Israeli F35s laugh stand-off weapons from above the Mediterranean or Lebanese air space, well within the range of Russian anti-aircraft systems.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:48 utc | 116
Yes, there were many types of currency over the years, but they all mingled with metallic coins, copper, silver and gold. The only real money has been copper, silver and gold. If your country allowed the exchange of gold or silver for currency, they it would be a currency backed by precious metal. And every failing nation took the silver and gold out of circulation before their currency collapsed. There are tables for how long a currency lasts, particularly important are the ones considered the worlds “reserve” currencies used by any nation. Spanish reals were used all over the world. Only in a few western nations have the population totally forgotten why having it backed by more than faith is so important. and again, same as it ever was.
PS, you are the same Joe from ZH about 10 years ago?
Posted by: Tard | Jun 12 2022 18:02 utc | 121
If someone asks you to fight, you better act stupid
Boris Norris
Posted by: Macpott | Jun 12 2022 18:02 utc | 122
Posted by: Roger | Jun 12 2022 18:00 utc | 120
“Launch” of course, not “laugh”. The Russian MLRS could also be used to destroy the airfield from which the F35’s took off. All within Syria’s UN rights as a sovereign nation.
@ Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:56 utc | 118
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-warship-us-submarine-encounter-pacific-islands/#:~:text=The%20Russian%20defense%20ministry%20said,Islands%20in%20the%20northern%20Pacific.
It is US MSM rag, but still…
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 18:02 utc | 124
The US of A is pretty damn afraid, for it is an island, between 2 oceans and with unfriendly countries on and below its south border. Any point in the US is vulnerable to whoever, who owns submarines with hypersonic nuclear warheads, or even non-nuclear hypersonic missiles. The Americans wouldn’t know what hit them, or who hit them.
I repeat, “whoever, who owns submarines”…
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 18:09 utc | 126
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 12 2022 17:06 utc | 92
This was an attempt at Soviet humor!
Anyway!
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 12 2022 18:10 utc | 127
Many are drug dealers and criminals. They are lowering standards in schools and making demands for race based equity not equality. For them equity is getting free stuff “ just because they are black” They are key to the replacement strategy of Democrats where white, middle class republican voters are overwhelmed and disenfranchised. Time to finish the wall and deport, deport, deport.
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 12 2022 16:46 utc | 74
Hello, maga-man. I surmise, you have not paid much attention to development of the “Los Angeles Declaration” at Two Tzu’s (Biden/Harris) Summit of the Americas. Have I got news for you! While Harris levered $3B US corp commitments to secure “root causes” of right-leaning banana republics, Venezuela and Iran sign 20-year cooperation plan, Maduro pledges joint ‘anti-imperialist struggle’
Iranian President Raisi said the document establishes formal “cooperation in the fields of energy, thermal power plants, repair and overhaul of refineries, exportation of technical and engineering services, economic, defense and military relations in the current government are indicatiative of the existence of many potentials and capacities in the two countries.”
[…]
This agreement follows another historic 25-year cooperation plan that Iran signed with China in 2021, which has been estimated at $400 billion. Top Iranian diplomats signed similar deals with Nicaragua’s Sandinista government in May.
What other cooperation does such an agreement entail? you ask. APsplains.
Ortega will allow Russian troops to carry out law enforcement duties, “humanitarian aid, rescue and search missions in emergencies or natural disasters.”
[…]
“We are talking about a routine — twice a year — procedure for the adoption of a Nicaraguan law on the temporary admission of foreign military personnel to its territory in order to develop cooperation in various areas, including humanitarian and emergency responses, combatting organized crime and drug trafficking,” Zakharova said.
which US Fast & Furious police actions inexplicably have not been able to accomplish
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 18:14 utc | 128
Finland won’t join the Nato bully boy club if Sweden doesn’t join it.
” Finnish President Sauli Niinistö warned NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg about refusing to join the alliance without Sweden ”
https://ria.ru/20220612/finlyandiya-1794943254.html
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 12 2022 18:17 utc | 129
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jun 12 2022 16:10 utc | 61
Radoslaw Sikorski, nukes
Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 12 2022 16:15 utc | 62
Posted by: bevin | Jun 12 2022 17:20 utc | 101
psychiatric help, idiot
I would not write off Sikorski as “idiot”. He was a participant of the latest Bilderberg meeting, together with his wife. He was one of two men from Poland and he is opposition side, not the government. He is not a random politician but a well-connected agent and he knows his dirty job.
List link provided by:Posted by: S | Jun 5 2022 9:23 utc
Posted by: pppp | Jun 12 2022 18:18 utc | 130
Tard @121
Quite a long time since any country took silver or gold out of the circulation. So no worries on that score yet, right?
Besides, not tying the currency to any commodity gives possiblity of growth, even mones or wells are empty. Fine by me!
And no,I am not jos from ZH. As the saying goes, I would not piss on them, if they were on fire. Unless I’d drunk plenty of whiskey right before 🙂
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 18:18 utc | 131
Evil crimes of the Azov Nazi’s at Mariupol being reported. Meanwhile the mainstream media in Greece hero worships Greek Azov Nazi’s fighting in Ukraine.
“Greeks from Mariupol told the newspaper “Estia” about the crimes of the militants of the Azov battalion against civilians.
“The cry of despair of the Greeks Mariupol. They break their silence and tell for the first time in Estia that they were shot, they were blackmailed, they were threatened, they were robbed of food in their apartments, “the newspaper writes.”
https://ria.ru/20220612/greki-1794868947.html
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 12 2022 18:22 utc | 132
@ Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 17:21 utc | 103
F-35 ability to gain air superiority is, lets just say untested.
The F-35 after 22 years in development, is still in development. The system has never been able to participate in operational testing, which is a requirement for Milestone C, full production.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 18:23 utc | 133
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 12 2022 16:46 utc | 74
CA, NV, AZ, TX
Is that California, Nevada, Arizona and Texas?
Spanish names, looks like a Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhie, Kiev, Lvov problem.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 12 2022 18:27 utc | 134
The F-35 is stealthy on a front view, but it has the largest, hottest engine ever put in a fighter jet used for aerial bombing. So it’s prime-time for IR seekers, especially on a return bombing mission, more especially in after-burner. I call it the kamikaze mistake-jet. They would go out but they would never return.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 18:28 utc | 135
ostro @124
Yes, wasnt doubting the incident in the sea.
Just pointing out that only an empire has interests so far from the decision center.
Also that western planes get a look-see on russian ships all the time. Except Admiral Kuznetsov!! Thats one bad muthafuckin ship. Will sink an empire one day!!!
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 18:28 utc | 136
The Congressional budget Office map would show why the US of A is so afraid, https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2021/02/now-they-finally-admitted-it.html
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 18:36 utc | 137
ostro@137
Maybe thats why their ’defense’ budget dwarfs everybody else? And capability too, without a doubt.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 18:45 utc | 138
Here’s the latest on F-35 Air Combat Maneuvering (the technical term for dogfighting).
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 17:16 utc | 98
Ah, that report give some US boys some lift. They lost out against F 16s (“50 years old”) but, but, but … at the end of the day, they would win.
I liked this comment by “lenn” most:
The F-35, F-22 are really overkill when it comes to going up against our potential enemies. The current war in Ukraine showcases how western media has over hyped Russian kit and personal for decades. Most if not all Russian kit is performing at the level of U.S. Vietnam era weapons and no where near what American and it’s top allies have today. Even the vaunted Russian SAM systems haven’t shot down much of anything except some drones and a few old Mig-29s and 27s. And the pre war doom and gloom regarding Russia’s ECM capabilities were just more of the hype that proved false.
So the Russians only have trash and are no-where near the US standards .. despite the F-35 losing fights against ageing F-16s. To my knowledge, the F-22s were only used in areas where the US had air superiority, doing some bombing runs. Similar with the F-35 against e.g. Iraq with total air-dominance. They never really met an air-defence to speak of, not least the Russian one. They all might be in for a similar rude awakening like they had in Vietnam, even though, we don`t hope it will ever come to that.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 12 2022 18:45 utc | 139
Well, well!
From IntelSlava
🏳️🌈⚡NATO Secretary General: peace in Ukraine is possible, but the question is what territories she herself is ready to give up for this. Therefore, the Alliance helps Kyiv so that it “pays the lowest price”:
“Peace in Ukraine is possible. The question is what will be its price. How much territory, freedom and democracy we are willing to pay for this world. NATO intends to help Ukraine to give it the strongest position at the negotiating table with Russia, which should end the hostilities.
Stoltenberg added that the NATO military does not participate in hostilities, and the Alliance itself opposes the spread of the conflict outside the country.
How’s the West especially Biden going to sell this to their domestic audience?
Posted by: Down South | Jun 12 2022 18:47 utc | 140
Are Germans and NATO on the ground fighting for Ukraine?
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/soldier-from-germany-nato-bearing-arms-caught-on-tv-in-severodonetsk-ukraine
What about the guy behind the German? French guy? .
Posted by: Tomo | Jun 12 2022 18:47 utc | 141
Lovely stuff!
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/06/another-no-shit-post.html
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 18:48 utc | 142
c1ue @90: “Could the F35 achieve air supremacy? Such that it could start Iraq style bombardment of Russian military units in Ukraine?”
You are right. That is highly dubious.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 12 2022 18:51 utc | 143
@ Joe6pack (shame nothing between ears)
The Western conjuring 3 Card Monte Circus is . . . . . . over.
Gig’s gone tits up.
You’re just looking butt-hurt and silly now. Chin-up.
Posted by: WTFUD | Jun 12 2022 18:53 utc | 144
A German years ago told me its where you send the cretins that you have to get gone of but have to save face due to the mistake of their national appointment appointment in the first instance.
God he was so right!
This confirms a view I’ve held for quite some time that the proportion of nutjobs in the European Parliament (EP) is several times larger than in the general population. It seems even to be larger than the similar proportion in EU national parliaments. I won’t even mention the US Congress, it’s a separate story in itself. I wonder whether this is by design or it is a natural phenomenon.
Posted by: Pagan | Jun 12 2022 16:59 utc | 84
Posted by: Jpc | Jun 12 2022 18:56 utc | 145
So much dark and deadly seriousness out there. It’s becoming so oppressive you can almost feel it. Thank God for the memers!
https://citizenfitz09.blogspot.com/2022/06/random-meme-sunday.html
Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 12 2022 18:59 utc | 146
ostro @142
Dont you think that praising the smell of your own farts is a bit too much?
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 19:05 utc | 147
Intellectual Prostitutes Call Critics Foreign Agents, Useful Idiots.
That is in Canada where the government spends enormous amounts of money to promote the idea that Canada should integrate its defences more closely with those of the USA.
And that anyone who disagrees is a Russian agent.
https://dissidentvoice.org/2022/06/intellectual-prostitutes-call-critics-foreign-agents-useful-idiots/#more-130470
In fact if there is any country within NATO where there ought to be understanding of the predicament the people of the Donbas faced in Ukraine it ought to be Canada. In Ukraine not only was the Russian language banned and the education system used to eradicate it – French Canadians can relate to that- but mobs of fascists roamed the Russian speaking areas taunting, humiliating beating and even murdering those using the ‘wrong’ language.
Needless to say the man employed to direct the anti Russian propaganda Yves Engler deals with, above, is one Jean-Christophe Boucher. I’m not sure what that is in English but if J-C were a Russian in Ukraine he would soon find out.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 12 2022 19:06 utc | 148
@Don Bacon #98
The link you provided is a rebuttal that boils down to:
the F35 sucks at aerial dogfighting (in the cannons sense) because it would shoot the F16s out of the air with its magical missiles and its vaunted invisibility to radar.
Similar excuses were used for the F15s in the past.
The problem is: maneuverability is also important for dodging missiles coming at you. A more sluggish plane is not safer against a missile.
As to whether the stealth matters against a 1st tier opponent: only direct testing will tell. And even then, the real test isn’t against the SU57 – it is against the layered S500/400/300 + Buk + Pantsir (and other) systems which the Russian military deploys. The Russians don’t care about air supremacy or necessarily even theater level air superiority; they are perfectly content to beat the crap out of opponents on the ground even as respective air forces are neutralized.
And that’s the real question: can the F35 achieve air supremacy or even theater level air superiority? Very much unknown.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:06 utc | 149
About the discussions of the F-35A stealth fighters: the overall opinion is that it is an overpriced boondoggle. While in all likelihood that is correct, I think it is a great plane since you gents seem to forget two important issues:
1. It is the system and not the weapon that is important.
2. It has the potential of being a good nuclear bomb delivery platform.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42639/f-35a-completes-final-drop-test-of-new-b61-12-nuclear-bomb
Every country with one of these overpriced pieces of tin, will have the option of delivering a powerful B61-12 nuclear bomb with their F-35A. Think of it as a packaged deal from Uncle Sam – hint hint.
Scheduled to be completed by 2025, the B61-12 warhead will have four yield options, including 0.3kt, 1.5kt, 10kt, and 50kt.
Do not over-analysis this. Think more practical: the plane is off-the-shelf ready and the bomb will be there in three years or so. From the marketing side, its a great way to move product. And when the crunch-time comes, the US of A may just renege. It would not be the first time. In the end, they are selling hope. So while the big budget F-35A fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’, maybe it can deliver a few B61-12s. Or so that is what is being said now a days.
Posted by: meshpal | Jun 12 2022 19:09 utc | 150
In the US of A…
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/10/business/tampon-shortage-amy-schumer-tampax/index.html
Sanctions to US women…
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 19:09 utc | 151
@Tard #112
Sorry, but you are deluded.
Russia does not require payment in gold from anyone for anything.
Even the so-called “gold standard” announcement was actually just the CBR saying that if they choose to buy gold, it would be at X price.
“If” being the operative word – historically the CBR has bought gold from Russian producers, not gold from the international markets.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:09 utc | 152
@Arioch #119
Your understanding of how commodities get converted into profits and/or CBR reserves is hopelessly wrong.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:10 utc | 153
@Roger #120
The Israelis are not attempting to gain air superiority or air supremacy in Syria; even the standoff launches are very uncommon and in small numbers.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:12 utc | 154
@Roger #123
You are correct, but doing so is very much an act of war.
Even as a response to another act of war (the original Israeli act) – it is far from clear to me that Syria is able or willing to start one.
From my view – it is a terrible situation but Syria just has to suck it up for now.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:14 utc | 155
@pppp #130
Sikorski can be both an idiot AND an agent.
And the idiot part is without question. Look at his highly unsuccessful stint in Polish politics as well as whenever he opens his mouth.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:16 utc | 156
WTFUD@144
Might be. Doesnt make the eastern 2 card monte any more believable. Or blaming somebody who thinks different than you as an enemy agent.
My backs so screwed and chins so small, it pointing up all the time;)
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 19:16 utc | 157
Wow, the link from the first post is really eye-opening stuff. Don’t want to upset anyone here, but I’m starting to get the distinct impression, no matter how strange it might sound, that Ukraine might not win against Russia.
Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 12 2022 19:18 utc | 158
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 12 2022 16:46 utc | 74
Let me save everyone else the trouble. What a dick.
Posted by: Tom in AZ | Jun 12 2022 19:28 utc | 159
@meshpal #150
The Russian air defenses are a system.
What system is the F35 part of, actually? It is primarily an offensive, not defensive weapon. The primary objective of US military doctrine is the destruction of enemy infrastructure via offensive operations, not the defense of existing US bases or whatever.
As for the nuclear weapons: that is just inane. The Russians have an entire panoply of missiles that can deliver nuclear weapons ranging from intercontinental to “mere” 100 km+ battlefield; from hypersonic to cruise missiles; sea launched, land launched, air launched; mobile road launchers, subs, silos, Tupolevs.
So what exactly is the point of having an air superiority fighter that drops nuclear bombs then? Which is also supposed to fight other aircraft, and suppress SAMS, and VTOL, and close ground support, and god knows what else?
A Swiss army knife is a nice toy for a dilettante; real work requires real tools.
It remains to be seen if the F35 is a real tool.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:31 utc | 160
there have been no dogfights, at all,…
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 16:38 utc | 72
Not true if you trust Western media and social media. I think I may have even seen a video on Telegram from the Russian side not long ago.
Here’s an alleged dogfight from The Sun (tabloid), which is also all over Twitter: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18838528/dramatic-video-ukrainian-fighter-jet-dodging-russian-missile-lock/
You’d have to think there’ve been at least a couple of dogfight type scenarios early in the war. I’m guessing most Ukie jets are destroyed, cannot get enough fuel or don’t have materiel to deploy.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:32 utc | 161
… “The West has the right to give Ukraine nuclear warheads so that it could protect its independence,” Sikorski told Ukraine’s Espreso TV on Saturday. ….
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jun 12 2022 16:10 utc | 61
I wonder is his outburst is a manifestation of increasing pressure, within the Axis sphere, at the prospect of an IAEA monitored inspection of just what’s being going on at the Zaporizhzhia NPP?
Kinda like a reprise of Kooky Nuland saying there was nothing dangerous in Ukraine’s DoD biolabs and then 5 mins later, on being informed that Ukies cleaners had let them down, did a 180 on the risks of dangerous material falling into RF hands!
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 12 2022 19:37 utc | 162
Canada is also a well known Nazi haven. Whether they want to try excusing it as a simple by-product of a particular immigration policy or not, it’s true.
https://networks.h-net.org/node/3449/reviews/27200/obrist-margolian-unauthorized-entry-truth-about-nazi-war-criminals
The Zionists know it: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/chrystia-freeland-needs-to-come-clean-about-her-nazi-collaborationist-grandfather
Like the Americans do, just ignore all those sonnenrad, wolfsangel and swastika tattoos. (and yes, when Ukrainians are wearing them, they are indeed intended as far-right neo-nazi symbology and not Norse pagan).
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:41 utc | 163
c1ue @160
I get the feeling you think that F-35 is a tool. As you might say about a person : That Sergey, he’s a real tool.
Anyway, thats pretty much what I think, but everybodys entitled to their own opinion since there is no real world data. Though even that is not enough for partisans.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 19:41 utc | 164
This is a low budget, low key, but entertaining and ultimately revealing comedy for Barflies that love peeing from a high place on USA military boondoggles. You can simply swap F35 for Bradley Fighting Vehicle w/o skipping a beat:
The Pentagon Wars is a 1998 HBO military comedy film directed by Richard Benjamin and based on the non-fiction book The Pentagon Wars: Reformers Challenge the Old Guard by Colonel James G. Burton, United States Air Force, about the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jun 12 2022 19:43 utc | 165
@ bevin | Jun 12 2022 19:06 utc | 148
b linked to that in the moa week in review, in its original form… cheers…
Posted by: james | Jun 12 2022 19:44 utc | 166
@ c1ue | Jun 12 2022 19:06 utc | 149
And that’s the real question: can the F35 achieve air supremacy or even theater level air superiority? Very much unknown.
As I said in my 33, it’s never entered operational testing, and may never. Fielding untested systems is not supposed to happen, particularly on a system with many deficiencies, but the congress in this “democracy” is mainly interested in the financial impacts, sharing in the profits and damn the people who have to operate and maintain crappy systems. Perhaps that’s why the USAF is facing a shortage of more than 1,600 pilots.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 19:45 utc | 167
The F-35 is marketed as part of a larger system of data gathering and the ability to project force via air superiority.
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2018/09/04/f-35-data-fusion/
Kinda reads like the military version of Tesla’s cars, which in reality were conceived of not as low-carbon transport, but part of a massive data gathering strategy. IMO, that’s one of the reasons their stock is so wildly inflated. I didn’t do the research, and I’m not sure it’s possible from where I sit to do so, but I’d bet some of Tesla’s ‘whales’ are holding onto the stock hoping for the real payout – monetizing all the data that Elon and his minions are looking to harvest, curate and sell.
https://blog.usu.com/en-us/tesla-principles-for-data-driven-success (may not be the best bit on it out there, but was one of the first I found)
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:47 utc | 168
… combatting organized crime and drug trafficking,” Zakharova said.
which US Fast & Furious police actions inexplicably have not been able to accomplish
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 18:14 utc | 128
CIA powder flights meet S-300 / S-400 “policing” systems?
It will be interesting to see what kind of dent RF can make in all that sh** and how little US credibility is left afterwards.
Another example of the fact that RF’s idea of containment for rogue US and its allies is simply armed law enforcement.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 12 2022 19:48 utc | 169
Perhaps that’s why the USAF is facing a shortage of more than 1,600 pilots.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 19:45 utc | 167
However, something tells me there’s no shortage of wannabe drone pilots among the incel gamer community and beyond. That said, I think the CIA may have taken the lead over the USAF. While they await their $15/hr job as remote death merchants, it’s probably easier for them to shoot up a school or Wal Mart with their ARs and hollow point bullets.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:51 utc | 170
Perhaps a more relevant piece on Tesla’s real strategy (sorry for off-topic follow-up to previous comment): https://seekingalpha.com/article/4384318-tesla-is-data-company-worst
Tesla is a world leader in car data, which can be monetized in myriad ways often neglected by market analysts
Tesla started collecting driving data, including data on location, speed and acceleration measures, steering, the surrounding driving environment (from cameras and ultrasonic sensors), and personal settings, in 2018. Since then, the company has collected over 3 billion miles of real-world driving data. To put the incredible scale of this in perspective, one would need to circle the Earth 378,891 times to travel 3 billion miles. Indeed, the scale of Tesla’s data-gathering operation is unmatched. Its closest competitor, Waymo, has only amassed 20 million miles, and other self-driving car companies are struggling to crack the 1 billion mark. George Paolini, a former EVP at SAP, has called it “the most effective crowd-sourced AI/ML training initiative around today.” Despite its commanding position, Tesla has yet to see significant financial benefits from this plethora of data.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:54 utc | 171
Tom in AZ @159
“ kiss my grits “ or alternatively go kiss a Gila monster for you folks. The bleeding heart liberals are a bunch of pot smoking dinosaurs. Every illegal immigrant and crack addict with a gun in Chicago has more rights than a law abiding middle class white republican. The asteroid is approaching for you.
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 12 2022 19:55 utc | 172
I don’t believe the f35 was meant to actively engage in any combat roles other than perhaps launching or dropping munitions on 3rd world undefended nations. It was meant to make profits, and it may be successful at that. I don’t think anything new needs to be developed to defend against it, the russians seem satisfied with the s400’s ability to do that. I imagine the s500 can do the same but at even greater distances.
Posted by: NJH | Jun 12 2022 19:56 utc | 173
Every illegal immigrant and crack addict with a gun in Chicago has more rights than a law abiding middle class white republican
LOL, is this the humor thread now?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:56 utc | 174
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:47 utc | 168
The F-35 is marketed as part of a larger system of data gathering and the ability to project force via air superiority.
That’s a dodge to cover up the fact that it’s an untested crappy jet fighter, with a low availability, but it is good at gathering battlefield information (until it can’t).
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 19:59 utc | 175
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 19:59 utc | 175
Of course. It’s a massive boondoggle. I don’t want to go into too much detail, but I’ve got first hand knowledge from Hill AFB where the F-35 program is headquartered. Let’s just say that the military views itself as on-the-hook for repairing them now. And they need a lot of repairs despite not being used in combat. That program may rank as one of the biggest scams on the taxpayer of all time.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 20:02 utc | 176
So it’s prime-time for IR seekers, especially on a return bombing mission, more especially in after-burner. I call it the kamikaze mistake-jet. They would go out but they would never return.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 18:28 utc | 135
That was left out of the sale’s pitch!
Posted by: Jpc | Jun 12 2022 20:02 utc | 177
I am reading the Ukraine will be granted access to the NATO umbrella as early as next week and also reading about folks wanting to give nukes to Ukraine so it can protect itself.
I also read all these NATO leaders saying they don’t have any skin in the game in Ukraine which we know to be a lie.
And now there is another hostage situation in the Azot chemical plant.
I keep writing here that I don’t think this Ukraine SMO will take that long while at the same time talking about the civilization war context of the Ukraine SMO and its potential to neuter/end NATO…..I think I believe that the longer this global conflict goes on the more chance there is for a nuclear exchange….and China/Russia know this also but are facing a centuries old bully.
I think the canary in the coal mine in our civilization war will be the capitulation of control over the commodities/metals markets pricing. I think that is happening but will it happen before empire can get nukes into Ukraine?
The shit show continues until it doesn’t
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 12 2022 20:02 utc | 178
What if Russia loses faith in signing Minsk # “404” ?
https://twitter.com/ChrisRUEcon/status/1535817586109468673
There’s not going to be another treaty, except an updated one drafted by Russia.
Former (ignored, or immediately broken) treaties? What’s the point?
Posted by: Roger Erickson | Jun 12 2022 20:10 utc | 179
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 19:51 utc | 170
no shortage of wannabe drone pilots
In fact F-35 pilots spend a lot of time in ground simulators because it costs so much to fly the plane, about $33,000 per hour. Now pilots enjoy flying (duh) and simulators don’t do it for them. So they leave service. . .Anyhow it’s a missile world.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 20:11 utc | 180
That program may rank as one of the biggest scams on the taxpayer of all time.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 20:02 utc | 176
Making it a fitting finale to the petrodollar extortion-racket and the MIC gorge it has fed for half a century.
Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 12 2022 20:11 utc | 181
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 20:11 utc | 180
They’d be smart if they left for commercial pilot jobs – so long as they don’t have to fly a Boeing 737-Max deathtrap. For a while that field was really underpaid, but I think the airlines and cargo transport companies are desperate now.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 20:15 utc | 182
fx: I went to your link to Judge Napolitano and Scott Ritter for only a few seconds. All I had to listen to was the introductory remarks by Napolitano about ‘Putin’s war crimes’ as a given in his view, and I knew this would be garbage. My only question is why Ritter would associate himself with a crank like that. Please spare an otherwise thoughtful discussion the time and energy we should spend on truly informing ourselves by not posting links to this.
Posted by: Oakland Pete | Jun 12 2022 20:20 utc | 183
Melitopol today 12.06.2022
https://youtu.be/1Pkq92kBD1s
https://youtu.be/6WdZrPCrTR4
Some Melitopol people visited Symferopol in Crimea https://youtu.be/lu9l3gdwU20
Mariupol – 08.06.2022 https://youtu.be/gOeEv74VvF4
Mariupol – 10.06.2022 https://youtu.be/8bTF9LAG-p4
Mariupol – 12.06.2022 https://youtu.be/6UOTanlkULc
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 20:21 utc | 184
from AP
KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Kremlin-installed officials in occupied southern Ukraine celebrated Russia Day on Sunday and began issuing Russian passports to residents in one city who requested them, as Moscow sought to solidify its rule over captured parts of the country.
At one of the central squares in the city of Kherson, Russian bands played a concert to celebrate Russia Day, the holiday that marks Russia’s emergence as a sovereign state after the collapse of the Soviet Union, according to Russia’s state news agency RIA Novosti.
In the neighboring Zaporizhzhia region, Moscow-installed officials raised a Russian flag in Melitopol’s city center.
Russia Day was also celebrated in other occupied parts of Ukraine, including the ravaged southern port of Mariupol, where a new city sign painted in the colors of the Russian flag was unveiled on the outskirts and Russian flags were flown on a highway leading into the city.
Also, the Russia-aligned administration in Melitopol started handing out Russian passports to those who applied for Russian citizenship. RIA Novosti posted video of a Moscow-backed official congratulating new Russian citizens and telling them: “Russia will not go anywhere. We are here for good.”
President Vladimir Putin earlier this year issued a decree fast-tracking Russian citizenship for residents of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions. In captured cities in the south and east, Moscow has also introduced the ruble as official currency, aired Russian news broadcasts and taken steps to introduce a Russian school curriculum.
The Kremlin’s administrators in the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions have voiced plans to incorporate the areas into Russia, despite protests and signs of an insurgency among local residents. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 12 2022 20:24 utc | 186
Posted solely for your amusement or to give you something new to discuss. IHNO on the subject. OTOH, I’ve always found Brian Berletic to be thorough.
Russia and Ukraine will unite to overrun Europe
Posted by: John Kauai | Jun 12 2022 20:25 utc | 187
Kherson – 08.06.2022 https://youtu.be/3Jsv7OngE7w
Kherson – 10.06.2022 https://youtu.be/qhOUJwC_tvs
Kherson – 11.06.2022 https://youtu.be/-_YaSwVDIt4
Kherson – 12.06.2022 https://youtu.be/hD_YzE3nqDg
Nice city
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 20:33 utc | 188
Thank God for the memers!
Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 12 2022 18:59 utc | 146
Allow me to introduce you to a personal favorite, Who has David Cameron been talking to?
Six-years-old and still crankin’ out non sequitors!
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 20:37 utc | 189
Knuckle dragging tv watchers miss opportunities to malign Obama and Hillary and her friend Lanny Davis, the principals that did the coup in Honduras in 2009.
That one sent a lot of natives packing and they’re still coming because their lives are still in danger.
The situation worsens with each turn. Crooked cops, Crooked military, regular crooks, thieves, rapists, lots of knives and guns. Desperation, devalued currency, Shootouts on the street, Drive by, Stray bullets.
All because Honduras elected a leftist in 07 that made Capitalist donors/controllers nervous.
When the tv news says, blame the brown people, they bite. They see nothing else. Easier not to think. Who and What causes mass migration?
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jun 12 2022 20:37 utc | 190
Christoforou in his talk today mentioned that Ukrainians who accept Russian passports get all their Ukrainian debts erased.
How’s that for a concrete reason to vote Putin?
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 12 2022 16:27 utc | 68
How do I get in on that?
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Jun 12 2022 20:38 utc | 191
fly a Boeing 737-Max deathtrap.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 12 2022 20:15 utc | 182
LOL!
Boeing falls victim to anti-Russia sanctions
“Boeing’s dependence on Russian titanium is extremely high, amounting to about 30-40%, meaning that at least every third Boeing aircraft is assembled entirely from Russian titanium,” Gusarov said, adding that apart from titanium, which is vital to aircraft engineering, the company also imports titanium products from Russian producer VSMPO-AVISMA. …
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 20:46 utc | 192
Michigan Dude @ 191
Real easy. Go to Luhansk and apply for a passport. No Michigan banks are going to come to take away any property you have there. Be a man, do it! Not just flap your tongue in the net, like the rest of us.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 12 2022 20:48 utc | 193
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 12 2022 19:55 utc | 172
Thanks for confirming my original. And white Republicans have at least as many rights as the rest of us. They are just pissed because their ignorant minority views haven’t completely destroyed any democracy here. But they continue trying.
Posted by: Tom in AZ | Jun 12 2022 20:49 utc | 194
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Jun 12 2022 20:38 utc | 191
Your turns come after Ontario.
Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 12 2022 20:54 utc | 195
Chaka Khagan
The knuckle draggers are wondering why the hell are the poor wretched brown people coming here when they can go to Mehico. Why are they not claiming asylum in a neighboring country but heading straight for US? Could it be because they want to simply make as much money as possible aka greed? Could it be they are being financed on their journey by radical leftist NGO with a plan to use them for vote fraud or for other criminal purposes? Illegal means illegal. They are not wanted or needed if they can’t follow legal immigration procedures. DHS is run by a criminal idiot who is at the top tier on the impeachment list.
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 12 2022 20:54 utc | 196
I think the canary in the coal mine in our civilization war will be the capitulation of control over the commodities/metals markets pricing. I think that is happening but will it happen before empire can get nukes into Ukraine?
The shit show continues until it doesn’t
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 12 2022 20:02 utc | 178
Think you have nailed it
Posted by: Jpc | Jun 12 2022 20:59 utc | 197
sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 20:46 utc | 192
Boeing has two joint ventures in Russia to make all its Titanium parts.
http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russias-vsmpo-avisma-gains-weight/
http://www.rusaviainsider.com/ural-boeing-manufacturing-second-titanium-russia/
“A second production site of Ural Boeing Manufacturing (UBM), the 50/50 joint venture between the American aircraft manufacturer and Russian titanium giant VSMPO-Avisma, has been launched in the Sverdlovsk region, Russia’s Urals.” (2018)
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 12 2022 20:59 utc | 198
I know most of you don’t understand Russian, but as you are interested in the Russian matters, I gave Youtube links to small videos of Melitopol, Mariupol and Kherson. In these cities, the majority speaks Russian. Maybe, you can use subtitles.
Actually, there are language problems of refugees from Charkow, Sumi, Popasnia and other eastern areas to the western Ukraine, Lvov, Iwano-frankowosk or to Rovno, when those refugees only speak in Russian. There are clashes between the western Ukraine women with the Eastern Ukraine women at the official places, refugee centres, shops etc. This is one of the main reasons — language — that most of the Ukraine must be freed from a neo-nazis, or the western part of present Ukraine.
Posted by: ostro | Jun 12 2022 21:08 utc | 199
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 12 2022 20:59 utc | 198
news from 2017 and 2018. m’k.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 12 2022 21:09 utc | 200