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June 5, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-81
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It is good to see that Spain one of fascism’s strongholds for so many years is still loyal enough to run to the aid of Nazis in distress in Ukraine.
“Spain is preparing to deliver its first batch of heavy weaponry to Ukraine, which may include surface-to-air missiles and battle tanks, El Pais reported on Sunday, citing government sources.
“According to the Spanish media outlet, the Ministry of Defense is currently finalizing the shipment of a battery of Aspide anti-aircraft missiles, which were decommissioned from the Spanish armed forces and replaced by a more advanced system, the paper noted.
“Madrid is also reportedly willing to provide German-made Leopard A4 combat tanks to Kiev. Much like in the case of the missiles, the hardware has not been in active duty for a while now, as reported by El Pais. Given to Spain by Germany in 1995, the tanks have been gathering dust at a Spanish Army logistics base for the past 10 years…”
Peter Sellers had an old Henry Champion song about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upg5Pj5PW8k
Posted by: bevin | Jun 5 2022 13:22 utc | 1
Yesterday setting on fire of a wooden Orthodox church in Svyatogorsk was today used by the imperilaist media to blame it on on the Russians with Zelensky calling ofr Russian expulsion from the UNESCO by attacking Ukrainian cultural patrimony.
Well, it happens that, contrary to what some of us thought, the beautiful wooden church was not part of the Ukrainian cultural patromony, since built in 2009.
On other order of things, everything points at that the confluence yesterday of the preparations for the NATO Baltics exercise, plus riots in Armenia, plus Turkey´s attack on Al Hassaka in Syria, plus Ukrainian massive shelling of center Donetsk ( causing dozens of casualties ), was directed at an intent on opening several fronts for the Russians to overextend themselves….
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Jun 5 2022 13:24 utc | 2
Russia must continue the SMO until all of Ukraine is liberated allowing even an inch of Ukraine to remain under the control of the Nazi regime ensure a constant stream of provocations
Posted by: Kadath | Jun 5 2022 13:27 utc | 3
@Posted by: bevin | Jun 5 2022 13:22 utc | 1
But, do not think of Spain as a sovereign nation any more, but as a kind of nation-carrier for the US.
No other way you can understand the Britons still holding Gibraltar, or currently the Moroccians fooling continuously the curent excutive, aided in this endavour by the Biden and israeli administrations, and intending to invade its nroth African cities and Atlantic islands, while balckmailing the current PM, who, if more was still needed, is a former Wall Street with a Fullbright sholarship, invited ot the Bilderber summit in the past and which cvars of the Spanish population the same he cares Zelensky for the Ukrainian one.
With regard the probable Spanish opposition to this, it is absolutely unexistent in Spain since at least the start of the pandemic, and even probably since the alleged left of Unidas Podemos arrived in power and tasted the sweat of a life inmersed in luxury, something, in own words in his book by former leader of UP ( and former minister of Social Affairs during the pandemic…)of the coalition cabinet in charge, with a life long pay after leaving office, they are not willing to refuse, as he considers, his children must inherit his swell deserved fortune….
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Jun 5 2022 13:36 utc | 4
Posted by: bevin | Jun 5 2022 13:22 utc | 1
Spain has a Socialist Government under Sanchez. Quite why they are sending old Leo tanks to Ukraine is unclear. Leo 2A4 did not distinguish themselves for Turkish forces in Syria where they lost 10.
I suspect it will not be a reputational success in Ukraine either when Ka-52 destroy them. Spain has probably come under US pressure since Algeria is cutting gas supplies to Spain since US favoured Morocco over Western Sahara (Trump) and now Algeria is irritated – US is supplying LNG to Morocco and may be enticing Spain to follow its instructions.
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 5 2022 14:07 utc | 5
No other way you can understand the Britons still holding Gibraltar
Well it depends on your level of education I suppose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Utrecht
Since these Peace Treaties date from 1713 they pre-date any Russian claims to Crimea by 70 years and the existence of the United States under Treaty of Paris by 70 years ! Britain seized Gibraltar 1704 and Art X settled Gibraltar in perpetuity.
In fact those same treaties which cede Gibraltar to Great Britain also defined Nova Scotia and South and North America.
Under Article XIII, Spain agreed to a British demand to preserve Catalan historical rights, in return for Catalan support for the Allies during the war.
Now it is strange on this MoA thread to have Ghost of M question the validity or sanctity of treaties…….clearly he is a NeoCon from Biden’s Regime who thinks treaties can be disregarded whenever convenient. Adolf had that same approach to his Non-Aggression Pacts in 1930s.
At least we know where “you are coming from” if not where you are going !
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 5 2022 14:16 utc | 6
@ Ghost of Mozgovoy 4
do not think of Spain as a sovereign nation any more, but as a kind of nation-carrier for the US.
Yes, we may recall this from a few years ago.
“Tanker carrying Iranian oil stopped off Spain’s coast — Gibraltar says tanker transporting crude oil to Syria in breach of EU sanctions, as Spain says move made at US request.”
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 14:17 utc | 7
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Jun 5 2022 13:36 utc | 4
Spain is literally a fascist-feudal remnant with a wig.
Not only is it directly continuous with a fascist regime, it has also continued upholding other fascist regimes.
I won’t engage in speculations regarding how this might change, but if it ever does, it won’t be pretty.
If you want to restore 1% of your faith in humanity, look up “Tierra y Libertad Carnaval 2022” on YouTube.
Carnaval de Cádiz is one of the very few manifestations of popular culture and folklore where openly, explicitly left-wing and antifascist messages hold fast and nobody really dares to challenge them.
(Please forgive me if I’m preaching to converts, it does have some reach but not everybody is aware of such things; if you know about anything similar please tell me about it)
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 5 2022 14:18 utc | 8
One thing that really stood out in the video (1) by Colonel Markus Reisner of the Austrian Army was how the Ukraine poured “terretorial defence” units between the fortified positions.
Where they would be slaughtered, and where they were slaughtered.
(1 In the previous MoA article)
Posted by: Northman | Jun 5 2022 14:29 utc | 9
https://inosmi.ru/20220604/sanktsii-254413155.html
(Don’t know, of course, how acurate these translations really are)
“Guancha”- China:
“Russia is winning the economic war – and Putin is not going to withdraw troops”
The West has recognized that the economic war against Russia is not going according to plan. On the contrary, it pushed up energy prices and strengthened the ruble. Readers of the Guancha portal admire Russia and advise China to learn from it.
Three months have passed since the West unleashed an economic war against Russia, and it is by no means going according to plan. On the contrary, we are doing very badly…
(Excerpt !)
Comments from Chinese Readers:
What does it mean to “take the bull by the horns”?
They wanted to impose sanctions against Russia, but inflation in the West has become higher than in Russia. This is an awkward situation…
guan_15834596952191 in reply
Western countries are all so ‘virtuous’, they care so hypocritically about developing countries, but the truth is that they are only concerned about whether they have stolen too little!
guan_layman in reply
Biden will soon admit defeat and express hope that Russia will sell oil at a lower price.
zmusic
There are energy resources, food, nuclear weapons, Avangard, Sarmat, Yars, Iskander… Who on this planet can destroy Russia?! Germany, Poland, Lithuania… they put a knife to their throats and are waiting for Russia to say that they are afraid!
guan_15753419191727
I’ve been thinking… China should still see the results, and if Europe really gets stuck in a swamp, then we can start to move in a certain direction… This could be the best chance in the next few years.
Usually
I can’t help but give a thumbs up: Russia really knows how to fight!
I follow closely
Now the whole world will pay Russia: the West sends money to Ukraine, but Moscow will have to pay twice as much later.
Prince brother take me to the universe
This time, Russia is really showing strength. The Chinese people support her. The Russians will not surrender and Russia will not fall. But the bald eagle’s beak will soon smoke.
J0kEr
This conflict also showed the real situation with European and American finances and demonstrated in a new way the importance of material resources. He allowed people to see that under the shadow of the omnipotence of European and American finance, only real resources and manufactured goods allow the world to function normally.
Woo-dee
Agrarian Ukraine can only export grain and women for surrogacy in the future…
Donkey in the wind
China must support Russia. In fact, the United States is already ready to force 4 Asian countries to join NATO and create an “Asian alliance” that will expand to the very borders of China. If Russia falls, China will be the next to be attacked!
I sincerely love the Chinese people
Anglo-Saxons:
Something has become ill for us, we can no longer stand it … Maybe we capitulate? ..
The moon is like a mirror, the sky is clear
Elliott’s article concludes by saying that while the United States has provided Ukraine with weapons such as the recently shipped American Wheeled Multiple Launch Rocket System (HIMARS), in the current situation, Russia is unlikely to “suffer a devastating defeat” militarily. Putin will never declare unconditional surrender. Why does Western public opinion feel that Russia has already failed? They even use the expression “unconditional surrender”. Elliott realizes that this will never happen. And we understand too.
Reincarnation of Huato
Do not use the word “country” in relation to the West, it is correct to say: the United States and its servants.
reed flower
That’s why NATO and the EU are stupid! Your total nuclear arsenal is much larger than Russia’s. If they pulled up to the borders of Russia and attacked it, I am sure that Russia would not fire nuclear weapons at its own territories. Only a powerful cumulative blow could strangle Moscow. But they are cowardly. Inferior countries rose to fight against it. The end result will be that the EU will suffer a crushing defeat. Russia will find a new direction of development – it still has China. The United States will be the best – they will not only make money, but also weaken the EU and Russia. Finally, it will be possible to extend the life of US hegemony for a few more years. But the decline of American hegemony is only a matter of time.
Kind
The United States is smug, they overestimate themselves and underestimate Russia, they are so arrogant that they really think the world will do whatever it wants. As President Trump once said, “The trade war is easy to win,” so where is the result? Launching a trade war against China ended with the US shooting itself in the foot. Hundreds of others were wounded, and they lost even more. Since then, they still do not dare to descend from their pedestal, although they have long become a laughing stock for the whole world.
sea reef
These Western countries are completely unscrupulous, they initially wanted to destroy Russia at the expense of the crisis in Ukraine. Now it turns out that not only did they fail to achieve this goal, but they also dragged European countries into it, which are not superior to Russia either economically or militarily. As for the energy and food crisis that will soon come to light, the future does not look very bright.
The direction of thinking of these politicians is obvious: to sacrifice Ukraine in order to achieve the least impact of the crisis on Europe. When Ukraine turns from cannon fodder into an abandoned pawn is only a matter of time. The issue is that Russia is not fighting Ukraine. Moscow has challenged the forces behind Kyiv, the United States and Europe. If they don’t back down soon, it will only give Russia a bigger trump card and show their powerlessness and incompetence.
Wang Ge
If you have food in your hands, you will not be alarmed; if you have a gun in your hands, you will not be afraid. Russia has both.
The beauty of the river city
Whether Ukraine can join NATO is up to the alliance to decide. After all, NATO was pushing Ukraine to join. Now Russia is fighting not with Ukraine, but with NATO. Ukraine is just the cannon fodder of the alliance, of course, it continues to overspend. After three months of conflict, the Russian economy has made great progress, and the US and Europe have imposed sanctions only on themselves, and the entire EU has fallen into a swamp of high inflation! The results of this conflict are already clear!
guan_16044104402786
China really needs to learn from others. Russia is under siege from all sides, and its economy is getting better and better – what a mockery of China! What Trump did to him for four years, Biden brought down on Russia in six months, and she is still alive.
Man in late autumn
Energy resources + food + nuclear weapons + vast territory + unique national character = Russia has more economic resilience and room to maneuver than any other country.
Posted by: MD | Jun 5 2022 14:33 utc | 10
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 5 2022 14:07 utc | 5
“””””””””””Socialist””””””””””””
At the tail end of Francoism, PSOE* was couped and artificially reinvigorated by an unholy trinity formed by Franco’s intelligence services, the CIA and the German SPD.
The objective was displacing the PCE** out of the “transition” process, because it was the most active and entrenched underground opposition party.
The means were installing a puppet figurehead, Felipe González Márquez – nom de guerre “Isidoro” and son-in-law of one of Franco’s military physicians – and pumping the party full of SPD funds.
Felipe González, malditos sean su nombre y su casa hasta que se extingan, was intentionally granted safe passage to France along with great numbers of compromised militants and plants; to participate in the congress where the leadership-in-exile was successfully replaced.
PSOE is a NATO/German/fascist front
*:Partido Socialista Obrero Español = Spanish Workers’ Socialist Party
**:Partido Comunista de España = Communist Party of Spain
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 5 2022 14:38 utc | 11
Yesterday Alexander Mercouris told us Russia was inflicting heavy damage on Ukraine.
Today I read on Reuters that Ukraine is pushing Russia back in Severodonetsk.
So, now I’m waiting for History Summary to post his daily update to see what the latest info is. Not that it will be definitive, but it does seem History Summary is reporting all the info that is available in an unbiased way.
Now it is strange on this MoA thread to have Ghost of M question the validity or sanctity of treaties…….clearly he is a NeoCon from Biden’s Regime who thinks treaties can be disregarded whenever convenient. Adolf had that same approach to his Non-Aggression Pacts in 1930s.
At least we know where “you are coming from” if not where you are going !
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jun 5 2022 14:16 utc | 6
Perfidious Albion does not belong in the bullhide, the monkey colony has existed for far too long already.
Furthermore, at least 5 different Spanish states have come and gone since that treaty:
-Whatever bullshit monarchy existed at the time
-???????
-1st Spanish Republic
-1st Bourbon Restoration
-2nd Spanish Republic
-Franco’s fascist dictatorship
-2nd Bourbon Restoration (we are here)
We didn’t sign that treaty, some leech with a crown did, it’s not our f***ing responsibility to honor it.
But of course somebody with an english name would defend british exclaves, it’s a given
It’s an extraneous body, the question isn’t whether it will disappear or not, but rather when will it do so.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 5 2022 15:07 utc | 13
1941. Germany asks Spain to help fight the Russians.
2022. The US asks Spain to help fight the Russians.
Posted by: Passerby | Jun 5 2022 15:13 utc | 14
re: broken treaties . .from the web
The US is an unreliable international partner—and it has long been one, even before the current administration pulled out from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Paris agreement on climate change, and threatened to end NAFTA. History is dotted with treaties that the US has signed but not ratified, signed and then unsigned, and even refused to sign after pushing everyone else to sign. Capriciousness about international treaties is an old US tradition. It starts with the country’s very creation: hundreds of treaties signed with Native American tribes that were either broken, or not ratified. . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 15:18 utc | 15
Passerby | Jun 5 2022 15:13 utc | 14
2022 – Spain along with the rest of the EU are nothing more than economic cannon fodder.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 5 2022 15:51 utc | 16
Am I the only one here who was giggling at Gibralter’s ill-conceived BREXIT diplomatic mission to secure “independence” through union with either EU, UK, or ES?
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 5 2022 16:04 utc | 17
This is an interesting conversation about Spain. I know you guys are fighting, but it has been quite educational for me.
Arganthonios, thanks for the link to the carnival in Cadiz. No wonder it was my favorite city (besides San Sebastian) during my travels
in that lovely country where my gene pool emanates. I am curious if ETA still exists in any viable form. What is their position on the Ukrainian situation, if they have one?
I have always respected ETA. I kinda wish my progenitors hadn’t bailed on the Iberian peninsula for the new world, but perhaps I wouldn’t be here now typing this silly words.
I am going to do a bunch more reading thanks to Ghost of Mozgovoy, Paul Greenwood and Arganthonios about Spain!
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Leo Español, tambien. Gracias!
Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 5 2022 16:05 utc | 18
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | ….
Great posts, many thanks.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 5 2022 16:09 utc | 19
Disculpe. This is a Ukraine thread. Please direct any Spain stuff my way on the open thread/week in review thing.
I wasn’t trying to disrupt the conversation about Ukraine.
bevin – Thanks for the Peter Sellers song!
MoA is a wonderful place. Thanks everyone! Especially b.
Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 5 2022 16:10 utc | 20
LOL! “transnational lists” are on the way. any. day. now.
index
The Political groups of the European Parliament
shake you money maker, vdL!
EPP
The EPP Group is the largest and oldest group in the European Parliament. A centre-right group, we are committed to creating a stronger and self-assured Europe, built at the service of its people. Our goal is to create a more competitive and democratic Europe, where people can build the life they want.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 5 2022 16:12 utc | 21
Assume the collective West is manipulated by their governments who are compromised and therefore assets of Russia and or China and Israel. Assume the tactics and blanket statements and insane escalation is an integral part of a longer range goal of Dugin style multi-polar Eurasianism that requires the West broken up into smaller regions to integrate into the emerging global system. Biden and the Democrats are pawns pushed on the Great Chessboard for complete military defeat. Port Arthur for the collective West.
Is the use of battlefield nuclear weapons by the West in their defeat on the ground in the Ukraine and possibly Poland an important as the final nail in the coffin? By using such weapons do they open the door for massive retaliation by Russia? If Russia restrains use to conventional ordinance and delivers a tremendous military defeat to the West the high ground is now theirs. They can point to this use of tactical nuclear weapons as justification for their measured response which see’s the strikes on Western States. Will new governments topple the old? Will the West now be “Agreement Capable?”
Posted by: Strgiel | Jun 5 2022 16:31 utc | 22
@ Ghost of Mozgovoy
sometimes posts disappear.. it is frustrating but it has nothing to do with the 2 posters challenging you… i encourage you to continue regardless…
@ Kadath | Jun 5 2022 13:27 utc | 3
here is an idea… russia is fighting fascism from these western usa led group of countries… it can go on for a lot longer then not and hoping to stop it in ukraine, when it is being supported elsewhere is a nice dream, but unrealistic in any short term time frame.. i don’t even know if it is possible, but it is certainly a task russia has set for itself with regard to ukraine… i think if the ukraine leadership were to change, it could be considered a win… i suspect this will eventually happen, but the usa and friends will not allow this for as long as possible and many people will die as a consequence – ukraine and russian soldiers… i think this is the wests plan, although they never openly state this..
this is as much if not more about finances then about ideology.. well, maybe the financial world really is fascist and no one ever talks about that..
Posted by: james | Jun 5 2022 16:37 utc | 23
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Jun 5 2022 15:20 utc | 17
Please don’t take offense at this, but even if I share the sentiment, you’re misrepresenting my comment.
SPD think-tanks as you say are not at fault for everything and are not the only ones to blame.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 5 2022 16:46 utc | 24
Update from Ukraine | We took Severodonetsk Back! Glory to Ukraine!
https://youtu.be/8Bf1ApN6fYA
Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?
Posted by: southfrontfan | Jun 5 2022 16:48 utc | 25
Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?
Posted by: southfrontfan | Jun 5 2022 16:48 utc | 28
Ukraine lies, then ukraine lies again, then somehow lies more …
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 5 2022 16:52 utc | 26
… Ukraine lies, then ukraine lies again, then somehow lies more …
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jun 5 2022 16:52 utc | 29
Yes, thank you for pointing that out, they are compulsive, pathological, tyrannical liars.
Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 5 2022 17:04 utc | 27
[ Luhansk Front ] Parallel Universe at Severodonetsk – contradicting stories from both sides
https://youtu.be/nturhsyba4k
There are multiple reports now.
Posted by: southfrontfan | Jun 5 2022 17:12 utc | 29
southfrontfan @32
Yes, the Russian military has collapsed and the Ukrainian cyborgs are marching on Moscow.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2022 17:22 utc | 30
[ Ukraine SITREP ] Day 100-101 (3-4/6) Summary – Ukr forces counterattack in Kharkiv / Severodonetsk
https://youtu.be/XV8x_Vbp7UE
this probably a more accurate report.
Posted by: southfrontfan | Jun 5 2022 17:29 utc | 31
re: There are multiple reports now.
Yes, the fog of war. Chechnya’s chief Ramzan Kadyrov proclaimed a week ago that “Russia takes control of Severodonetsk. . . our soldiers have done it . . . in three hours.”. .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 17:31 utc | 32
I believe the Russian strategy is only to keep the territory it wants to hold on to long term. Its primary mission is exterminating Ukraine forces. If they leave a particular location its because the Ukies have also left. They will go find them in whatever location they have “evacuated” to. Ukies will claim a victory if they find a Russian ready meal that they left behind
Posted by: DaVinci | Jun 5 2022 17:47 utc | 33
Re:Severodonetsk
Levi
@Levi_godman
·
23h
Arestovich 2 days ago: “We dragged Russian troops into a trap in Severodonetsk, pretending to “surrender” the city. Now the Russian command is in shock.”
Arestovich today: Possible complete capture of Severodonetsk by RAF will not strategically change the situation at the front
Posted by: Down South | Jun 5 2022 17:52 utc | 34
Russia must continue the SMO until all of Ukraine is liberated allowing even an inch of Ukraine to remain under the control of the Nazi regime ensure a constant stream of provocations
Posted by: Kadath | Jun 5 2022 13:27 utc | 3
Or just take what they want and bomb the rest of into oblivion, creating a bit of a “dead zone” between them and the Euro peons.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Jun 5 2022 17:56 utc | 35
#RamzanKadyrov .New video of the commander of #Chechen special forces walking freely in #Severodonetsk . #Kadyrov said “Im repeating.Our soldiers walk freely in #Severodonetsk .”
#Russian forces still clashing with #Ukraine️ soldiers in industrial area.
#RussianUkrainianWar
Video embedded in Tweet
Posted by: Down South | Jun 5 2022 17:57 utc | 36
Link below for video mentioned @ 39
#RamzanKadyrov .New video of the commander of #Chechen special forces walking freely in #Severodonetsk
Posted by: Down South | Jun 5 2022 18:02 utc | 37
Re Severo ‘counterattack’, this is just what Russia wants, it doesn’t want them retreating to preprepared defensive positions.
Posted by: Oh | Jun 5 2022 18:15 utc | 38
This is the location of the Kadyrov video. Right in the middle of town.
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.9447974,38.4902834,256m/data=!3m1!1e3
Posted by: nook | Jun 5 2022 18:18 utc | 39
There is one old street view. You can see the Green Town building. https://www.google.com/maps/@48.945023,38.4909764,3a,75y,170.74h,90.78t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMU2LgTsLi6mVwgNhJVkYE5saeeez8pnNNaic1v!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMU2LgTsLi6mVwgNhJVkYE5saeeez8pnNNaic1v%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya311.43872-ro0-fo100!7i10240!8i5120
Posted by: nook | Jun 5 2022 18:19 utc | 40
“Petra” on the previous but “not Ukraine” thread.
Yes, the population mix of the Ukraine is too often presented to us in simplified form – and also doesn’t allow for the fact that as the pre- 2014 survey shows, many ethnic or pro-Russians in the Ukraine regarded themselves as Ukrainian citizens and were content, in very many cases more than content, to stay that way.
Setting aside the Hurrah Patriots and the hawks, whose views are often taken erroneously as the views of the Kremlin itself, I believe, the Russian government then and now was aware of that reality. With that population mix Minsk 2 would have been the best way of holding the Ukraine together without exposing the minorities in the Ukraine – not just the Russian! – to persecution at the hands of the ultra-nationalists who were exercising increasing influence over the Kiev government.
The events of and following the Revolution of Dignity, and the ATO, put at risk any possibility of such compromise for most in the Donbas. There’s a very good summary of that from TTG of Colonel Lang’s site. I copied it to an English blog in an attempt to show that the Ukrainian war isn’t as simple a matter as our press would have us believe:-
“”The Maidan Revolution occurred under conditions of anarchy and continued corruption. Under the cover of that anarchy, the right wing elements, the neo-nazis, white supremacists, anti-semitics and ultra nationalists gained ascendancy. They formed the right wing militias that threatened the lives of those in the east.
“The rebels had no choice but to fight for their lives. And they did. And it got ugly.”
It’s still ugly. So much so that it’s not longer a matter of counting heads in this or that oblast in order to determine under which government the people there wish to live. It’s a matter of determining which group is most at risk of reprisal.
The Bucha reprisals showed that ethnic or pro-Russians were at severe risk when they were “outed”. In the Bucha case they were “outed” as pro-Russians because they had helped the Russians with such activities as the distribution of food during the temporary Russian occupation. Hence the Western insistence that the Donbas should be returned to Kiev rule is in practice quite out of the question. Were that ever to happen the reprisals would be worse than the incidents we saw in the Donbas in ’14/’15.
That must also apply to other areas outside the old LDNR where Russian forces have now established themselves. Hence, presumably, the fast integration of those areas. But short of a Lausanne type solution, what’s the future for those Russian and other minorities left in remnant Ukraine?
Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 5 2022 18:20 utc | 41
@nook | Jun 5 2022 18:19 utc | 43
Thank you for valuable factual information! It is useful confirmation.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2022 18:24 utc | 42
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 5 2022 15:07 utc | 13
Impressed with your knowledge of our sad situation of a simple colony here in Spain. Isidoro was and is a disgrace, from that team of supposed socialists came the bus boys Solana to destroy Yugoslavia and now Borrell that idiot that together with VonDerSchaissen is sinking Europe to the delight of their anglo saxon masters.
Funny to hear a brit talking about respecting treaties and consulting the pirates in Gibraltar -with way more registered companies than inhabitants, a true pirates nest, center of all kind of illegal money laundering and vice- just like consulting the inhabitants of Malvinas Islands, but at the same time not recognizing the Russians in Crimea their right to live home. Anglo saxons are the plague of the world and I truly believe that I’ll witness their hour of reckoning, Eurasia will prevail, America will prevail and by America I mean from Rio Grande to Ushuaia, look at those pirates they even stole the name. The day is near, Победа будет за нами. Venceremos.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 5 2022 18:30 utc | 43
@MD, #10:
The comment section at Guancha has always been the best part of this portal since inception. By the way, Guancha is owned by Eric Li.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jun 5 2022 18:32 utc | 44
As above, way too much crap on treaties, spain, etc above.
Severodonetsk
Leaning on MilitarySummary rumble, with Ukie forces in the industrial area, possible nasty aerosols possibly primed to explode from large storage tanks, the minute the wind and Russian force disposition would yield murderous war crime results to downwind. I would hypothesize that it is a tactical retreat, hopefully civilians retreated with the Russian.
Ukraine will use the tiniest smidgeon of facts to manufacture hyper-Goebellian. propaganda.
The other Ukranian salients elsewhere are more interesting. Time will tell.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Jun 5 2022 18:37 utc | 45
Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?
Posted by: southfrontfan | Jun 5 2022 16:48 utc | 28
Evidently, UAF commanders agreed to present this sequence of events.
Is the story true or false?
Given prior trials of UAF self-reported accomplishments, the probability that this story is true is low, say, no better than 50:50.
(To be sure, quantifying frequency of all lab- and field-tested facts presented for verification is futile. The salient point is: UA.gov lies more often than not.)
What happens next? 6. weak points and strong
Yelensis recaps (The DPA) 4 stories of RF rout at Severodonetsk, concluding:
After which, and you can read whatever you like into the fact that Kadyrov was summoned back to Moscow to meet with Defense Minister Shoigu. Thank goodness we don’t live in Stalin times, when such a summons might inspire a man to start thinking about defecting to the enemy, instead of having to meet with his boss behind closed doors!
Fortunately, Kadyrov’s tête-à-tête with Shoigu seems to have gone well. …
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 5 2022 18:47 utc | 46
Even though it’s a slow, grinding war, it’s not the Russian army that’s being ground down.
The SMO seems to be a reflection of Putin’s own personality… and quirks: painstakingly methodical. And a certain stubborn unwillingness to deviate from pre-drawn plans. If I were in his shoes Ukraine would be made to pay for every artillery round they dropped into Donetsk. But he’s winning. He obviously has settled on a slow war – and views it more in long term geo-political terms than military.
He’s kinda like God in a way. You don’t know what he’s doing, but you have to accept that maybe *he* knows what he’s doing.
Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 5 2022 18:53 utc | 47
English Outsider @44
As the Nazis correctly pointed out, the “Revolution Against Dignity” would have just been a gay parade without them. So long as the population believes Uncle Scam has the Nazis back, and the Nazis can disguise themselves in crowds and hide behind the skirts of little girls, then it is true that the Russian special military operation cannot win. A few Nazis in key positions can go a long way towards terrorizing a country into submission, `specially when “The Mighty Exceptionals” appear to be splurging scores of $billions into propping those Nazis up.
But it is an enormous mistake to underestimate the shift in demographics in the country formerly known as the Ukraine brought about by the Russian SMO. Many who would otherwise support the Nazis have used the Russian SMO to do what they have always wanted to do and seized the opportunity to Go West (did anyone in Britain actually like the Pet Shop Boys? In the view from the US they always seemed to be an entirely commercially manufactured product, and over-the-top propaganda like this cements that perception. Still amazed that the Ukrainian youth were stupid enough to fall for it).
Not only have all of the Ukrainians who had their heads in Disneyland bolted at the first opportunity, which depleted a big chunk of the population base that the Empire of Lies & Chaos was relying upon to manipulate the Ukrainian political scene, but the portion of the ukrop population that the empire was most successful in implanting Russophobia in is being euthanized at a furious rate. When these blades of the demographic scissors are finished cutting then what remains in the Ukraine should be fairly open to reason.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2022 18:55 utc | 48
“…But short of a Lausanne type solution, what’s the future for those Russian and other minorities left in remnant Ukraine? English Outsider@44
I think that the mistake we often make in looking at this situation, in Ukraine, and the many others like it -and there are many like it: Yugoslavia was like it, Malaya was like it, Northern Ireland was, so was Cyprus and so was Palestine…it is all part of the worlds of Woodrow Wilson and imperial ‘divide and rule’-is to see it as a natural phenomenon, rooted in history.
In most circumstances clashes born of ethnic or religious differences settle themselves over time, human beings adjust to one another. The Asian family running the corner shop in 1974 sticks out and troubles some of the neighbours…thirty years later everyone is getting along, people have learned to understand each other and to lose their fear of each others’ differences.
The trouble arises when there are deliberate and persistent attempts to exacerbate apparent differences and turn them into bloody clashes.
That was the role of the Orangemen in Ireland. The various KKK klones in the states. The skinhead gangs and the National Front in the UK..
But now, on a vaster scale, on a globally organised scale, we have the imperialists entering into every fissure in community, every possible division in society and preventing all movement towards the sort of global consensus of people that might lead to, on the one hand, a rejection of the scum settled on us in the form of government, and, on the other, a realisation that the solution of all our social and environmental problems and the building of a heaven on earth is well within our grasp.
We have the technology. And all else that is necessary.
In a word: the problems in the Ukraine were introduced into it, from abroad and with the worst of intentions, in effect deliberately to produce the conditions necessary for fascism politically and pauperisation, economically. And we know who introduced them. One day historians will look back, perhaps over the correspondence of Ukrainians, including their social media, emails etc. And they will discover that the gradual introduction of racist hatred between Galicians and New Russians began in the nineties, gradually increased into a crescendo in 2014 and has been on the boil ever since. It is an entirely artificial and, as I have said repeatedly, imported phenomenon. A disease deliberately nursed from an irritant to a plague by fascists working for the imperialists and their parasites the “oligarchs” who live off the super exploitation of labour that fascist authoritarianism facilitates.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 5 2022 18:56 utc | 49
@Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 5 2022 18:20 utc | 44
LOL you should’ve put “Revolution of Dignity” in quotes.
Plus there’s the small detail of the US/OSS/CIA preparing this since 1945, to undermine and weaken Russia.
You never heard of Viki Nuland “Fuck the EU” ? And the 5 billion US taxpayer dollars JUST for the 2014 Maidan coup, not to mention everything before and since.
And of course it would be unthinkable to mention the ethnocentric global mafia at the heart of it, and permeating throughout it.
Posted by: Featherless | Jun 5 2022 19:01 utc | 50
last week Ukrainelost two jets and the entire squad the jets were supporting in an attack to add insult to injurythe Russians destroyed the command post and generals that ordered said attack.
The report from Ukraine was–successful attack forced Russia to defending positions.
Nothing they say matters or is true
Posted by: OhhCanada | Jun 5 2022 19:01 utc | 51
I went to bed after seeing news of the Grad rocket strikes on the city of Donetsk and possible reprisal strikes against Kiev. Quick search on the Kiev strike seems to indicate that it was upon newly arrived T-72 tanks from a NATO country, nothing out of the ordinary. The first seems extremely provocative, the second just standard operating procedure. More info would be appreciated.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Jun 5 2022 19:04 utc | 52
Severodonietsk:
RF have retreated to the safe distance from being shelled by AFU out of higher positioned Lysichiansk. It makes no sense to go to the flat open boundaries of the river Donietsk.
Lysichiansk can be cleared of AFU only from two directions – NW or SE while all supply lines should be cut – that will happen in a few days.
RF should cross the river first at some point NW and build up bridgehead there towards Lysichiansk. Also SE is Toshkivka bridgehead that has to develop.
So waiting for that pressure to build up saves the lives and property.
The only logical explanation.
The rest is just short-lived AFU propaganda.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 5 2022 19:07 utc | 53
@ Citizenfitz 50
. . .Putin’s own personality… and quirks: painstakingly methodical. And a certain stubborn unwillingness to deviate from pre-drawn plans.
How do you know Putin’s “painstakingly methodical” personality and quirks? And what were his “pre-drawn plans?” Were they to take Kyiv, as Zerensky claims? And how do you know that?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 19:09 utc | 54
Ukropaths seem going positively desperate.
If someone know tabooed part of Russian language and is in need of some schadenfreude you can indulge at https://t.me/OpenUkraine/18369
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 5 2022 19:13 utc | 55
@Don Bacon, I know he is careful and methodical because that’s how he’s always been so far. This war included And I where’d I say he intended to take Kiev?
Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 5 2022 19:16 utc | 56
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 19:09 utc | 57
yeah I think this is just a consensus plan by Russia, no need to pretend it has something to do with Putin’s “psychological quirks”, a standard Western propaganda theme.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 5 2022 19:17 utc | 57
@ whirlX 56
. . .and Lysichiansk is in Luhansk Oblast, as is Severodonetsk. I didn’t know that. I had assumed that the river was a boundary.
They’re on a map here.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 19:18 utc | 58
Posted by: bevin | Jun 5 2022 18:56 utc | 52
IOW, exactly what the US establishment have been accusing Russia, Iran, Venezuela and others of doing to the good ole USA. Just depends on the letter and color next to each respective ‘statesperson’s’ name.
It would be an interesting study to look into how the methods employed by the CIA, NED, USAID, state-affiliated NGOs etc. – including covert ones – were exactly what “we” accused (most recently) the Russians of doing to interfere in our own politics. There’s absolutely zero % chance it was merely a coincidence.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 5 2022 19:21 utc | 59
Seems like the Zelensky or the Office of the President has taken direct control of the Armed Forces
Levi
@Levi_godman
Ukro channel
⚡️⚡️⚡️
The political center of influence in the Office of the President seized the power from the military and stopped the withdrawal of troops from Severodonetsk to Lysichansk.
5:45 PM · Jun 4, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Levi
@Levi_godman
·
Jun 4
Replying to
@Levi_godman
Kiev believes that it is necessary to fight to the last to convince the West to supply new batches of weapons to Ukraine. Zaluzhny is losing his administrative positions, but maintains direct contact with Zelensky.
I don‘t even know what to say 💀💀💀💀💀💀
Posted by: Down South | Jun 5 2022 19:28 utc | 60
@ 63
Here’s an article with photos in the Kyiv Post about Zaluzhny.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 19:37 utc | 61
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 19:18 utc | 61
FWIW, I’ve come to the conclusion, Luhansk is a nest of sidewinders. I would not trust anything “Ukrainian” pols Serhiy Haidai or Oleksandr Stryuk put to press. Three months into this thing, neither of them seem capable of advocating for vital needs of their constituents.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 5 2022 19:45 utc | 62
Severodonestsk/Lisitchansk
Overall situation:
1 – Main logistic support line (MSR) cut in Vasilivka and Striapivka.
2 – Alternative MSR through Siversk under fire from FRU/RPL Arty.
3 – Open ground for FRU/RPL on the Vasilivka-Spirne-Topolivka axis without an UKR prepared firm defence line.
4- From Komishuvaha in the south, resumption of the progression on the axis and Vrubivka-Mikolaivka-Topolivka leaving aside the pocket Gorskoye-Hirske-Zolote and its line of defence to be cleaned later by 2nd echelon
FRU/RPL controls the city except for industrial zone (Azot factory) next to the river Donets.
FRU/RPL advance halted to await complete evacuation of UKR to Lisitchank.
But UKR counter-attacked yesterday with its mercenary brigade which may have retaken part of the town and Metolkine.
A Falaise 2.0 pocket?
Both cities are strategically lost and Russians having returned to their basic principle of “reasonable sufficiency” and strict economy of contact forces, will only control, destroy slowly and play on attrition of human/material means.The meat grinder is “ON”
Wait for the low hanging fruit to fall and concentrate on Sloviansk-Kramatorsk which will be the real turning point of the war.
Logically, UKR should evacuate the whole area as soon as possible and withdraw to Sloviansk-Kramatorsk defence mole, which is what UKR’s Chief Of Staff would have requested.
The 8/10000 UKR fixed in the pocket are tactically useless and this counter-attack to retake 2 or 3 blocks has NO military rationale, whatever may be the results.
After a certain level of attrition, it will no longer be a retreat but a debacle that will cause havoc in Sloviansk-Kramatorsk defence mole
UKR must choose war on the ground and war propaganda.
But can Kiev regime afford another defeat like Marioupol in the eyes of its public opinion and the morale of its troops?
Posted by: aleksandar | Jun 5 2022 19:47 utc | 63
A series of Tweets from Russian diplomats with valuable insight.
Dmitry Polyanskiy translates from Ukrainian:
https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1533499970300612611
Mikhail Ulyanov warns of tensions at IAEA Board of Governors session on Monday:
https://twitter.com/Amb_Ulyanov/status/1533494828914335744
Russian embassy in Canada points out the obstructionism from the Trudeau cabinet, “illogical”, “aggressive” (I’m in total agreement, links to Foreign Policy department provide abundant evidence):
https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassyC/status/1533129981458513922
(This man figures strongly in this Canadian cabinet’s policy towards Russia:
https://twitter.com/Billbrowder/status/1205923207959724033 )
Alexander Alimov charts Ukrainian victories over school children:
https://twitter.com/A__Alimov/status/1533342276688261120
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 5 2022 20:02 utc | 64
I’d been trying to understand Ukraine’s governing structure: I’ve pulled up official documents but they’re hard to wade through. Specifically, I want to understand who appoints/elects provincial governors. I’d read somewhere that the president was able to do this: if this is the case then it certainly presents as a highly flawed design.
Posted by: Seer | Jun 5 2022 20:19 utc | 65
Bruised Northerner @67
Looking at the responses confirms this:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1527347447822815232
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2022 20:21 utc | 66
Degenerate Spain continues to hold the Catalan people against their will, with the apparent blessing of the corrupt, fascistic European Union.
Many things in the world will change for the better when the colonialist, oligarch-riddled ‘ west’ falls into the cesspit it is digging for itself.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 5 2022 20:33 utc | 68
@ 69
Hesitant to enter into a convo involving Musk, BBrowder is my one-controversial celebrity limit… but I think you are on to something.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 5 2022 20:35 utc | 69
In-lieu of the transcript to the second part of Putin’s interview with the Rossiya-1 TV Channel, there’sthis TASS article reporting on a small but important portion dealing with long-range MLRS systems. Putin said:
“In my view, all this fuss over additional deliveries of armaments generally pursues the sole objective of stretching out the armed conflict as long as possible.”
TASS continued:
The deliveries of US multiple launch rocket systems to Ukraine changes nothing since Kiev previously had an inventory of these armaments, including rockets of this range, and is simply replenishing its stock, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Sunday.
“There is nothing new about that,” the head of state said. The Russian leader thus responded to a request to assess the decision on such deliveries. “These are all multiple launch rocket systems and the Ukrainian army operates similar Soviet-and Russia-made Grad, Smerch and Uragan rocket systems,” Putin said.
The Russian leader pointed out that the range ‘depended on rockets that are used and not on the system itself.” “What we hear today and what we understand, these are rockets that fly to a distance of 45-70 km depending on the rocket type. The same is true about Grad, Uragan and Smerch rocket systems that I spoke about. They also have the range of 40-70 km and there is nothing new about that,” the head of state explained.
Putin clearly isn’t worried since the threat of Ukie firing on Russian territory has existed since the SMO’s start, and he doesn’t see anything changing that dynamic. IMO, such talk is aimed at reassuring the domestic audience that no more danger exists than that present from the start. And such weaponry won’t help the Ukie battlefield position. Hopefully, Putin’s words will calm talk of retaliation aimed at decision centers that might cause an escalation.
Because this thread has more people knowledgeable about Russia-Ukraine, I’m asking here.
Can anyone please point me to a rebuttal to the crap about Russians having no indoor crappers and plumbing? I’m involved in a different conversation with a family member that has replaced their entire social media profile with blue and yellow flags.
Thanks in advance if so.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 5 2022 20:43 utc | 71
@ Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 19:18 utc | 61
RF tried to cross Donietz River NW of Lysichiansk few times and failed. It is reinforced heavily.
If they manage to cross it and establish the bridgehead in the N/NW line in the next few days than it is pretty much game over for Lysichiansk.
I can foresee in next 2 or so weeks all that area collapsing, all the way to Kramatorsk.
Biggest problem right now is Avdiivka area as there are really hard entrenchments and lots of forces and daily bombardments of urban areas of Donietsk city and randomly killing civilians (that no-one is mentioning in the press).
RF are very systematic and careful across the whole frontline, but Avdiivka maybe deserves a bit rougher and riskier approach.
Southern front towards Odesa/Dniepr might be rather interesting to watch in a next few weeks, too.
In any case Donbass is pretty much done and gone, and as for the rest of Ukraine? – I have no idea.
With expeditionary force as RF is right now – I doubt it.
Double that and it becomes rather more interesting and dynamic.
Posted by: whirlX | Jun 5 2022 20:46 utc | 72
@ 74 TQC – I think the Ruskies are pretty advanced!
Russian Cyber Farm
Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 5 2022 20:53 utc | 73
@ whirlX 75
Thanks for that summary.
In any case Donbass is pretty much done and gone, ..
Isn’t Donetsk Oblast going to be a chore?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 20:57 utc | 74
https://mtracey.substack.com/p/surprise-the-texas-shooter-and-the
michael tracey lays out a great example of the hypocrisy among US “elites” who want “gun control” yet ship tons of untraceable weapons to ukraine.
the dumb french whore who runs canad…oops! i mean our prime minister is going balls out on banning and seizures in his best virtue signalling fashion. i guess reacting to events across the border makes more sense than fixing the post-covid train wreck this country has become.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/canadas-justin-trudeau-announces-freeze-on-handgun-ownership-3039178
and of course, who could predict this (except anyone who saw it happen 1,000 times in the US)?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/handgun-sales-surge-1.6475635
Posted by: the pair | Jun 5 2022 20:59 utc | 75
Tom_Q_Collins @74
I don’t know about Russia, but I know that almost 100% of households in the Ukraine had “improved water” (potable indoor running water) in 1990 according to the WHO, but that was down to 87% in 2011. I know the dissolution of the Soviet Union hit Russia hard too, but I doubt it was that bad.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2022 21:15 utc | 76
Posted by: Down South | Jun 5 2022 19:28 utc | 63
My #58 seems to confirm it “from the ground”
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 5 2022 21:16 utc | 77
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 5 2022 20:43 utc | 74
LOL!
How about Houzz.com Russian shelter rag browsing?
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 5 2022 21:17 utc | 78
Of course “direct control by Ze” might actually mean “direct control by NATO emissaries”
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 5 2022 21:22 utc | 79
it looks like lavrov can’t go to official visit to serbia because mighty american puppets montenegro, macedonia and bulgaria forbidden flyover through their air space for his plane.
Posted by: denazi | Jun 5 2022 21:25 utc | 80
There’s a lot in the news about Russia blockading Ukraine ports and not allowing exports. Russia denies it, and I can’t find any photographic proof of it. So, what blockade? IOW if the complainers can’t provide any evidence of it, then it doesn’t exist, like a lot of the disinformation we get.
Here are some random comments in the press:
> Millions of tons of grain are stuck in Ukraine as the ongoing conflict with Russia prevents safe transit from the country’s ports, a UN official warned.
> almost 4.5 million tons of grain are stuck in Ukrainian ports and on ships and cannot be used
> wheat shipments from Ukraine have been blocked by the Russian army
> holding supplies “hostage” by blocking Ukrainian ports
> the Russian military physically blocking 22 million tons of Ukrainian food exports in our seaports
> Putin said that global food shortages were the result of “short-sighted” Western policies
> Dozens of container ships are blocked in Ukrainian ports, choking off exports of wheat, sunflower oil and other foodstuffs, as well as fertiliser for crops
> Black Sea navigation has also been hampered by mines placed by both Russian and Ukrainian forces.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 21:29 utc | 81
Report from Intel Slava Z Telegram channel… There are some photos but I don’t see any video.
Now there is a massive video and photo of the arrival of Russian tanks in the Kherson region.
Tanks are moving both in the direction of Nikolaev and Krivoy Rog. It is difficult to estimate their number, but the armored vehicles have not stopped moving for the third day, day and night, most likely the Russian troops are preparing something big.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 5 2022 21:38 utc | 82
TQC @ 74
Using a POS Google search the first promoted hit is this scurrilous rag. Even they know better.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049
Most of the 20% will be deep rural populations. And it is not true if featured by Google and Moscow Times.
Your family are vulgar racists. You do not need them. You will not win the argument and they will learn nothing.
Posted by: oldhippie | Jun 5 2022 21:40 utc | 83
W Gruff @ 70
Don’t know about Ukraine, but Russia indeed has provincial governors appointed by Putin. Intentionally flawed,certainly, like many things in Russia.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 5 2022 21:42 utc | 84
Well as long as the Ukrainian envoys and government representatives are non stop opening their big mouths insulting and puttin in evidence every EU government who refuses to send them heavy military equipment, they are also unveiling the aims of all these events in Ukraine.
As Ukraine parliament speaker Stefanchuk asured in his visit to Germany, I do not rule out receiving submarines from Germany, because we are ready to become the eastern defense frontier for the whole of Europe…
Oh, wait, do not tell me, then, when we know at this time that the dark net is full of Western countries supplied weapons to Ukraine on sale, if Ukraine is to be the ultimate defense frontier for Europe, it means it will become a bottomless pit for the European people´s taxes on behalf of the US/UK Mics and may be even French one.
To say that Europe will never be more indefense, as the subsidized weapons fall in the hands of every kind of extremists around the world, who then will end attacking or blackmailing Europe on orders of the same beneficiaires of such proffiteering raquet, is an understatement.
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Jun 5 2022 21:48 utc | 85
More info on those tanks from Anna News Telegram channel… Seems they are T-62’s supporting the rear of the LDR… If so, I think this is the first time they’ve been seen in Ukraine; most Russian tanks are upgraded T-72, T-80. Presumably they are going to be used to free up the main tanks for offensive operations.
Presumably, T-62M tanks were seen in the Kherson region
The corresponding photos were published by the @HersonVestnik channel.
T-62M tanks received increased protection in the form of lattice screens installed on the roofs of the tower.
Such a boost should protect them from the threat of attacks from above, as well as from bombs dropped from drones.
The upgraded T-62M has enhanced protection for the bottom, the frontal part of the hull and turret, additional screens – Ilyich’s Eyebrows and a new fire control system.
Back in 2016, some of these tanks were sent to the Syrian army, where the vehicles were able to show good survival results.
According to the authors of the channel, the vehicles are moving to reinforce the rear units of the NM DPR in the Kherson region.
@anna_news
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jun 5 2022 21:50 utc | 86
Rare video of the Russian TOS-1 MRLS system in use at shorter range. The launch and impact sites are both visible and about 1 km apart. You can see why Ukrainian fighters are terrified of the 220mm fuel-air explosive rockets. A trench is not sufficient to shield soldiers from the long thermobaric blast wave produced – lethal (in this video) at least to the extent of the shockwave ‘fog’ front. The visible shockwave is a function of the relatively low temperature and high humidity – it’s not normally visible in most situations.
https://twitter.com/Taurevanime/status/1533489667051606017
Javelin ATGM missiles have an effective range of 2.5 km, so the TOS-1 launcher in the above video is easily close enough to be counter-attacked. You have to be able to see the Javelin target to fire on it, so the launcher is probably positioned behind trees or terrain. The TOS-1 rockets are ballistic and able to arc over such cover even at very low trajectories.
Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 5 2022 22:01 utc | 87
@MD (10)
Very interesting & refreshing viewpoints there. Thanks!
Posted by: bjd | Jun 5 2022 22:04 utc | 88
Re. lack of indoor toilets in Russia.
Russia is a HUGE country – so is Australia.
AFAIK Australia has lots of outdoor toilets without running water (aka ‘long drops’). Doesn’t make it a third world country (at least in the opinion of some!)
Posted by: digital dinosaur | Jun 5 2022 22:08 utc | 89
Posted by: digital dinosaur | Jun 5 2022 22:08 utc | 92
I was just about to write the same!!!!!!
Posted by: watcher | Jun 5 2022 22:10 utc | 90
@ Ghost of Mozgovoy 88
I changed your wording on sending weapons to Ukraine. . . .
. . . if Ukraine is to be the ultimate offensivedefense frontier for Europe
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 22:10 utc | 91
I’d imagine that maybe he would be referring to a Russian Dacha, a 2nd home outside the city where you’d go to grow crops, fish and get away from urban life. These dont always have modern amenities because that’s not the point.
Your main house or apartment would obviously have running water and plumbing.
Posted by: G | Jun 5 2022 22:12 utc | 92
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 5 2022 20:43 utc | 74
“…Can anyone please point me to a rebuttal to the crap about Russians having no indoor crappers and plumbing? I’m involved in a different conversation with a family member that has replaced their entire social media profile with blue and yellow flags.”
Tom,
the PIK Group is known for quality housing developments in a number of countries. Good luck convincing the family member.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIK_Group
Posted by: Paul | Jun 5 2022 22:12 utc | 93
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 5 2022 20:43 utc | 74
The argument presupposes that the Ukrainian SSR was much more advanced than the RSFSR at the time of the dissolution of the USSR, and that the former maintained that condition as an independent country.
Otherwise: What oldhippie said. Wouldn’t the logical onus be on your family member to prove his/her assertion anyway? No reason for you to spend your time debunking it.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 5 2022 22:17 utc | 94
Spain is sending Leopard 1 (a4) tanks to Ukraine.
Russia is sending T-62M tanks to Ukraine.
Chances are this time they would meet.
Would we see some 1965-style NATO VS Warsaw Pact tank war reenacted? Back then we could nat gause which tank is practically better, but now we have a chance.
I actually feel thrilled a bit.
Posted by: Arioch | Jun 5 2022 22:21 utc | 95
@51 WG
Off course they bolted. He who bolts first bolts best. They knew what was coming. What would you have done, anyone of sound mind have done? Get out of Dodge. Sandwiched between a Kiev Nazi Junta and the best military in the world. 18-25 you want to be popping pills, necking back alcohol and pulling skirt.
Posted by: WTFUD | Jun 5 2022 22:24 utc | 96
I came upon a fashion display window,
it contained an American nuclear family unit.
It grabbed my attention – loyalty to fashion,
is what it spoke.
That is how propaganda works, isn’t it?
Very similar to the way fashion works…
or strike that…
not “similar” but rather exactly like it.
People seek acceptance, and they do this through mimicry
and conformity which leads to Groupthink as well as to being fashionable. Beliefs, including political ones, are
like fashion, individuals adopt the group ideas and wear them like they are their own.
They signal group belonging.
Again, I came upon a fashion display window.
The nuclear family, display window dummies, wore T-shirts and color coordinated
skirts or trousers (running pants in this case). Each wore, including the little girl dummy, a T-Shirt that messaged
their support for Ukraine, either “I Stand With Ukraine” or “Puck Futin”. The mother dummy had a scarf in Ukrainian flag yellow and a skirt in Ukrainian flag blue.
The little girl dummy had a matching outfit less the scarf.
They were fashionable.
It struck me as representative of how superficial and banal are the American people’s “support for Ukraine”.
Is Ukraine aware that they are “the flavor of the month”? Support for Ukraine will be discarded, changed and forgotten
by Americans like yesterday’s laundry. Support is manufactored by the drumbeat of propaganda and when something
else comes along Americans will change their T-shirts and their interests.
It is perfect that the dummies in the display window were headless. Perfect.
Perfect in the context of Ukraine, as Americans are fashionably supporters of Nazi head-choppers.
Yes, head-choppers.
[Head-choppping has been attested.
https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604
]
What do Americans dummies need heads for anyway? Beliefs are adopted not through the intellect, but through conformity
to the group.
For added assurance the fashion display window had a large banner and in big bold letters the words “Global Relief”.
Support was Global. Now that is a big and widely accepted Group for a conformist to safely belong to. The banner also
claimed that profits from the sale of the clothing would go to the Ukrainian people and not be laundered through some
offshore account in the Cayman Islands.
Let us hope that American, pre-chopped, fashionably loyal supporters of Ukrainian Nazis do not discover a double meaning in the term
American nuclear family.
https://imgbox.com/gDCbsrfO
Posted by: librul | Jun 5 2022 22:26 utc | 97
Statement by Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the OSCE Alexander Lukashevich at the OSCE Permanent Council, 2 June 2022
Just a few short excerpts from the Russian transcript:
“Those who consider the problem of neo-Nazism in Ukraine far-fetched, today could see the material distributed by us in the OSCE – these are photographs (as they say, ‘without bills’) of the so-called ‘freedom fighters’, members of the Nazi battalion ‘Azov’, who in the period from May 16 to May 21 voluntarily laid down their arms and surrendered to the DPR law enforcement agencies, as well as photographic materials found on the positions left by Ukrainian formations. What do you say now – that all these swastika-tattooed paramilitary neo-Nazis are just a fabrication of “Russian propaganda”? Or that these admirers of Hitler, Bandera and Shukhevych brought good and joy to the residents of Donbass?”
After providing evidence in support, this statement’s delivered:
“That is, the Security Service of Ukraine suspected various REPRESENTATIVES of the OSCE of espionage activities and carried out secret operational measures against them. Please note that the documents are relatively recent – dated August, September and October 2021.
“In these circumstances, we are surprised by the silence of the OSCE leadership, which, as a rule, does not stint on reactions regarding various aspects related to the activities of OSCE staff in Ukraine. We could stand up for their honor. But you will not do this – you are ‘not up to the task’ of criticizing the Kiev regime and its special services, even if they complicated the work of the organization’s representatives.” [My Emphasis]
I presume that Alexander Lukashevich’s presentations cause other OSCE members to cringe. I can imagine his tone as he delivers his conclusion:
“In conclusion, we note that time contributes to the disclosure of many facts indicating the crimes of the Kiev regime against its own population, as well as lies and hypocrisy in the international arena. All this further confirms the validity of the Russian special military operation, the main tasks of which – the protection of the inhabitants of Donbass, the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine – will be fully implemented.”
In other words, we’re not close to being done.
Arioch @98–
It will be no contest. The Donbass troops know who to operate tanks, while I doubt very many trained takers remain alive on the Ukie side. So the trained tankers in their T-62s will eat the untrained tankers in their Leopards–that is if the Ukie tanks even make it to the battlefield.
@ 89
Lots of tanks means lots of mobility, armor-protected firepower and decisive shock action. Bring it on!
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2022 22:31 utc | 100