Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 14, 2022

Ukraine - Killing Surrendering Soldiers, Shelling Civilians

At 8:30 UTC today I checked the priorities of the day on major U.S. news websites.

  • On the New York Times homepage the word "Trump" appeared 10 times, "Ukraine" appeared 5 times.
  • On the Washington Post homepage the word "Trump" appeared 12 times, "Ukraine" appeared 5 times.
  • On the Wall Street Journal homepage the word "Trump" appeared 9 times, "Ukraine" appeared 3 times.

The Google Trends graph for Ukraine has fallen to near zero.


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This is a problem because it takes pressure off the Biden administration to negotiate with Russia over Ukraine and the future security architecture in Europe.

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Today's daily 'clobber list' by the Russian Ministry of Defense includes an additional chapter taken from the verbal briefing:

I would like to note that in recent weeks, incidents involving the shooting of Ukrainian servicemen in the back by nationalist units have become more frequent in areas of military operations.

Thus, after a fire preparation for an attack by Russian troops near Novomikhailovka in Donetsk People's Republic, more than 30 servicemen of the 25th Battalion of the 54th Mechanized Brigade of the AFU decided to lay down their arms and surrender.

Ukrainian servicemen occupying a stronghold near Zvioroferma asked the Russian unit command via radio to cease fire and provide a corridor for exit.

Around 10 p.m., AFU servicemen with white flags began moving towards Russian positions.

At that moment, a Ukrainian nationalist barrier unit arrived at the stronghold in armored vehicles and opened crossfire in the back on the servicemen of the 54th Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

As a result of this shooting, 32 Ukrainian servicemen were fatally wounded and killed.

This incident, as well as many others like it, clearly demonstrates that amid growing military failures and demoralization of Ukrainian troops, the Kiev nationalist regime is trying to stop the retreat and surrender of its units by punitive actions of barrier squads.

I have seen no evidence that supports the details of the above incident. But there have been public reports that somewhat prominent people who are opposed to the war or criticize the Zelenski regime get picked up the Ukrainian SBU (the former KGB) or some 'nationalist', ie. fascist  goons to then vanish. It is thereby not astonishing to read that similar events, on a likely larger scale, are happening at the frontline of the war.

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The Ukrainian artillery is said to fire only 6,000 rounds per day for lack artillery ammunition. Yesterday 300 projectiles were fired by the Ukrainian army or by 'nationalists' onto civilian areas of 'rebel' held city of Donetsk. There were at lest 7 dead and 22 wounded. Graham Phillips provides a video report of the impacts and damage (vid). To use 5% of the daily ammunition ration to terrorize civilians in Donetsk is not only despicable but dumb as those artillery troops will now receive intensified attention they deserve.

Levi @Levi_godman - 11:42 UTC · Jun 14, 2022
❗️The DPR asks Russia to use additional Iskanders and aircraft to destroy the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Meanwhile Russia is providing a humanitarian corridor for civilians and surrendering Ukrainian troops who leave the Azot chemical plant in Severodonetsk. The scheme is similar to the corridors at the Azov steelworks in Mariupol where it worked well.

Posted by b on June 14, 2022 at 14:59 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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The Ukrainians are not even hiding it, they are going directly for attacks on the Russian speaking population in Donetsk. This is deliberate war crimes as they are losing badly.

VIDEO from area https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErTtbkxULMI

Posted by: Dean Oneil | Jun 14 2022 15:18 utc | 1

Thanks, b. Dumb question: why didn’t Russia protect the surrendering Ukrainian servicemen who were shot in the back?

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 14 2022 15:19 utc | 2

once the SMO is over, I cant wait to see the war crimes trials for all the Nazis who bombed Donetsk over the past 8yrs

Posted by: Kadath | Jun 14 2022 15:23 utc | 3

Dicey operation to try and execute suppressive fire which would not only panic the surrendering troops but could also be used by Ukes to video and then say on CBSNMCABCMSN etc. that Russians are now shooting surrendering troops, gotcha moment.

Posted by: Gregory Pierce | Jun 14 2022 15:26 utc | 4

Provocation attacks by Ukr on Donbass are a "hail Mary" attempt to get Russia to dilute their present tactics.

In WWII, during the Battle of Britain, the German strategy of concentrating their attention on RAF airfields had the RAF on the ropes, a couple of weeks from being wiped out.

"Bomber" Harris staged a daring attack by RAF bombers on Berlin, which Goering had promised (under the threat of changing his name to the Jewish sounding Meyer) to keep Berlin safe, and this raid succeeded in getting the Nazis to switch gears and bomb civilian targets in England in retaliation.

No longer under concentrated attack by the Luftwaffe, the RAF was able to recuperate and win the Battle of Britain.

The Ukr are trying the same tactic it seems...

Posted by: Simplicius | Jun 14 2022 15:27 utc | 5

On Monday, Deputy Secretary of Defense Kathleen Hicks said Pentagon leaders believe the state of Ukraine will survive Russia’s invasion and that the US is preparing to arm the country for years to come. Reported on southfront.

Moral indignation is a thing for the naive persons. Dont expect some sort of emphaty from the "west"
or anybody else.
Who cares...?

The only thing thats counts is winning the SMO. Russia be strong and independent.

Posted by: DutchZ | Jun 14 2022 15:30 utc | 6

thanks b... your headline sums it up well...

it is a shame these ukraine soldiers are not allowed to surrender.... same deal ukraine - they are not allowed to surrender or the west will be and are shooting them in the back... funny how that works on both levels... no surrender allowed.. the usa- nato and etc won't allow it... ukraine and ukrainians will be shot in the back regardless... too bad the leadership isn't bright enough to figure this out...

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 15:31 utc | 7

@ Paul | Jun 14 2022 9:22 utc | 264 last thread..

thanks paul.. maybe i should take up drinking!

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 15:39 utc | 8

“Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the deepest valley.” ~ Sun Tzu

“Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons. And they will follow you into the valley of hubris, corruption and moral depravity.” ~ Joe Tzu

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jun 14 2022 15:41 utc | 9

This is a problem because it takes pressure off the Biden administration to negotiate with Russia over Ukraine and the future security architecture in Europe.
I'm not sure this is really a problem, as the lack of "negotiation" gives Russia free rein. The only purpose of such "negotiation" would be to play the Russians for fools while rearming the Ukies, after all.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 14 2022 15:42 utc | 10

Two issues:

1. I saw a report that blamed Russia for shelling Donetsk, even though it was clear the weapons used were NATO weapons. That's an extreme false flag: they are asserting that Russian, more more accurately, DPR forces are shelling their own areas with NATO ammunition. That seems absurd.

2. The issue of shooting surrendering and/or deserting soldiers and the arrests of pro Russian, or people perceived as pro Russian raises some interesting quandaries. Though I agree that NATO and the US bear shared responsibility for the war with Russia, I still come down to the point that Russia invaded Ukraine while there were still other options-even if I believed **all** Russian arguments, which I don't. Most accept that during war, especially an invasion, even the most Democratic society is going to suppress dissent that is perceived as undermining war efforts. Whether it's justifiable or not, and to what extent, is a complex question. This is especially difficult to address as some of these abuses go back at least to 2014 and were part of the reason the Civil War started back then. I think back to the Contra war against Nicaragua. The Sandinistas engaged in human rights violations, but they were fighting against foreign backed invaders who were committing worse violations. If I seem vague in this post its because I am asking the question and not necessarily at this point able to provide an answer.

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Jun 14 2022 15:43 utc | 11

Kadath @ 3

Seems no need to wait for the SMO to be over.

Will be especially interesting when they get to the high ranking NATO contingent.

Posted by: financial matters | Jun 14 2022 15:45 utc | 12

James-7:
Any army “in charge of itself” would be acting very differently than the Ukrainians forces are currently. As you said, they have a gun to their back in every sense. Sending territorial defense forces (old men and civilians) to get wiped out with no option of withdrawal is brutal. ..And what’s this about women being conscripted ???

Will be interested to see what comes out of the Azov chemical plant. Talk of 200 or so mercs in there? Woof, that’s not going to be pretty..plus they have civilian shields they hope to horse trade with.

I gather the continued shelling of Donetsk is an attempt to get RF forces change tactic and assault fortified Adveetka (sp?) which is apparently where the shells are coming from. Fat chance, but hey they have been doing it for years so why stop now. I guess it could also be an attempt to send the message of: See?! The Russians caint protect you!.

The drive through videos of two coastal cities were pretty interesting to watch. Mauriopol and Kherson seem like nice towns, even with the occasional burnt building.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jun 14 2022 15:47 utc | 13

@ Chip Poirot | Jun 14 2022 15:43 utc | 11

bullshit.. you can buy into the western narrative all you want, but don't expect me to do the same.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 15:48 utc | 14

Chevrus | Jun 14 2022 15:47 utc | 13

apparently Avdiivka has a chemical plant close to where these donetsk shellings originate from... i don't know how to verify any of this but a few posters in the last thread discussed it and explained why it would be difficult to take this town, or to try bombing it... i don't know... i share your interest in what comes out of the azot chemical plant... interesting info on this place via wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievierodonetsk_Association_Azot

it does seem to me ukraines are being shot in the back on a number of levels - both on the ground and politically speaking.. what a quagmire it all is with many innocent people suffering from these self serving freaks in power...

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 15:56 utc | 15

Golly Chip! What might some of those other options have been? To keep it simple lets limit ourselves to post-2014…..Go!

If you answered Minsk 1&2 you are correct!

In regard to “even the most democratic” societies, maybe you could share your top picks. I’ll offer up my own assessment of the nation I live in, and we can all play a guessing game. Ok, it’s a plutocratic duopoly bought and paid for by poly-corporations on a collision course with draconian neo-feudalism….

Posted by: Chevrus | Jun 14 2022 15:57 utc | 16

Why is it that you can access the Russian MoD website, but for me it's always "access denied"? Is there a trick to it? I'm in the USA.
Your reports are great.

Posted by: Susan | Jun 14 2022 15:58 utc | 17

the guy that owns that chemical plant in avdiivka has a colourful resume - Dmytro Firtash i wonder how that factors into all this??

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 16:00 utc | 18

John Dougan interview with Daria Dugina in Mariupol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azn8X1e9xtE

and de-mining operation on the beach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycdDkGlOgl4

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 14 2022 16:01 utc | 19

Why is it that you can access the Russian MoD website, but for me it's always "access denied"? Is there a trick to it? I'm in the USA.

Posted by: Susan | Jun 14 2022 16:01 utc | 20

What the US accuses Russia of...is not of any/much interest to the Rest of the world, as that world know what the US is. But, maybe still gets some noticing in the unfriendly countries.

Surrendering is a dangerous matter in any army in the world, the same as being a traitor. Anyway, the dead enemy is dead enemy.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 14 2022 16:03 utc | 21

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Jun 14 2022 15:43 utc | 11

Try going back to 2014 Minsk II Agreement. Then see how that was implemented by the Failed State during those 8 yrs, as your point 2 premise is based on a lack of facts on your part.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 14 2022 16:04 utc | 22

DutchZ | Jun 14 2022 15:30 utc | 6

Sure that was the plan. She does not say how much of the Ukraine will be left when this is all over. If the Ukraine was a couple of acres the US would try to arm whatever crazies were left over. In fact, I think only the crazies will be left. Everyone else will be looking for an exit.

Posted by: circumspect | Jun 14 2022 16:08 utc | 23

A most interesting development of sorts

Clearly the average memory recall feature of 95% of the residents citizens of the USSA. Is at the level of a goldfish memory cycle...............

Tragic, now very few USSA citizens care about the sad fate of Emperor "Zel". Nor the fact that USSA will now deliberately slice and dice country 404. To try and appease one very angry bear. After poking it with a three inch stick..... Will this angry bear consume the left over "NATO" carcass . For an after dinner snack too?

In the interim the evil reformed sisters of standard oil are making super price gouging profits. Buy low sell high. From the dumb and dumber SUV/truck owners of the USSA...............lol

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 14 2022 16:08 utc | 24

@ i am wrong @ 18... firtash owns the azot chemical plant in located in Sievierodonetsk, not the coke plant located in avdiivka.... sorry for the confusion on my part..

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 16:12 utc | 25

ria news via reuters is saying chemical plant in avdiivka, but it is a coke plant.. maybe that is a chemical plant too.. i dunno..

Huge smoke cloud seen after blast in Ukraine city with chemical plant -RIA news agency

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 16:14 utc | 26

I echo Susan @20's question.

Siemans's behavior has caused Gazprom to slash gas deliveries via Nord Stream 1 by 40%:

"Russian state gas exporter Gazprom announced on Tuesday that it was reducing gas deliveries via the Nord Stream pipeline after German company Siemens failed to return gas pumping units to Gazprom’s compressor station on time....

"According to Gazprom, five out of eight gas pumping units taken by Siemens for repair from Gazprom’s Portovaya compressor station in Vyborg, near St. Petersburg, were not returned on time. Also, problems arose when the pumping units were connected to the pipeline, as their engines had malfunctioned, which prompted industry regulator Rostekhnadzor to issue a temporary ban on their use."

In other news, Spain, Portugal then France will see temps in the 40C+ range over the next several weeks that will cause a surge in electricity demand to run AC systems that will further deplete gas supplies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2022 16:19 utc | 27

I see RT's URLs are being blocked again. Here's my comment without the link.

I echo Susan @20's question.

Siemans's behavior has caused Gazprom to slash gas deliveries via Nord Stream 1 by 40%:

"Russian state gas exporter Gazprom announced on Tuesday that it was reducing gas deliveries via the Nord Stream pipeline after German company Siemens failed to return gas pumping units to Gazprom’s compressor station on time....

"According to Gazprom, five out of eight gas pumping units taken by Siemens for repair from Gazprom’s Portovaya compressor station in Vyborg, near St. Petersburg, were not returned on time. Also, problems arose when the pumping units were connected to the pipeline, as their engines had malfunctioned, which prompted industry regulator Rostekhnadzor to issue a temporary ban on their use."

In other news, Spain, Portugal then France will see temps in the 40C+ range over the next several weeks that will cause a surge in electricity demand to run AC systems that will further deplete gas supplies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2022 16:21 utc | 28

At this point I have to admit my complete mystification about what is going through the deranged minds of the depraved 'leadership' of the western coalition. These perverts seem willing to pointlessly sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives of helpless Ukrainians and the entire prosperity of their own countries. And that's bad enough, but made much worse when I try to imagine what objective they could have to justify such sacrifice. What can they possibly be hoping to gain?

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 14 2022 16:23 utc | 29

@ Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 14 2022 16:08 utc | 24

Don't you know it! I'd just add two things:

(1) It's hard to remember things you never knew in the first place. Most Americans are astonishingly ignorant of, well, everything -- you know about all the polls showing how few Americans can name their own Senators, or a Supreme Court justice. I wonder if there's a poll showing how many Americans even know who elensky is, for that matter.

(2) I live in a part of the country where half of the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks, few of which are owned for any discernible business interest. You can tell because so many of them have been tricked out to accommodate extra large tires, of course, not to mention "coal rolling." (It helps that there are no state emissions standards for trucks here.) Was passed by three coal rollers yesterday during a one-hour trip. Fortunately I wasn't driving my Prius but instead my Corolla hybrid, which is really just a Prius in disguise, so I wasn't gifted with large clouds of black smoke.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 14 2022 16:24 utc | 30

This is a problem because it takes pressure off the Biden administration to negotiate with Russia over Ukraine and the future security architecture in Europe.

Am I the only one who felt that the sudden (And completely unnecessary, it had been successfully memory-holed and huge numbers of the public considered it "Russian disinformation". Nobody was forcing anybody to cover it, all the incriminating videos were online and had long since had their peak) media u-turn on the Hunter laptop represented the neocons in the media putting pressure on Biden to tow more to their line?

Posted by: Altai | Jun 14 2022 16:25 utc | 31

Russia acts. It doesn't matter what Ukraine's army and nationalist forces do. It doesn't matter what Zelinski and his western backers say. It doesn't matter whether western MSM cover SMO news intensely or not. It doesn't matter whether political pressure is increased by shelling civilians.

Russia does what Russia does. Russia won't go into reactive mode except to exploit enemy blunders or act upon new intelligence. Surely Russia is documenting criminal and terrorist acts.

Russia may or may not respond to the intensified shelling of civilians with additional resources. Beyond a reasonable doubt Russia will use enemy fire to add incrementally to Russia's knowledge of counter-battery operations.

As for b's observation about MSM outlets operating in sync, this is the rule rather than the exception. I've often wondered how, exactly, the MSM outlets are signaled by the CIA.

Posted by: SingingSam | Jun 14 2022 16:30 utc | 32

The Zionist media is signaling to the Democrat party that the massive red wave approaching is going to wipe them out in both house and senate. They may be trying to game out the scenario where Biden and Harris are both impeached and a new replacement selected from the republican controlled house, possibly Trump himself. They want the democrats to be open to voting for an impeachment conviction. This would solve the Biden and Harris 2024 problem and also allow them to start to blame the hyperinflation on the Republicans in time to prepare a viable candidate for 2024. They have completely failed and are thus giving up and planning to start from scratch before they are stigmatized for a generation or two.

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 16:33 utc | 33

This is from The Saker's 6/13 sitrep: quoting "While the Great WalkBack, which is just another pretext and attempt to change the narrative, is gaining steam, Russian forces are gaining city by city, area by area, deliberately, resolutely, not wavering and now moving faster. The last estimate that I am aware of, is that Lugansk is 95% cleared, whereas in the Donbass Republic there still is some work to do with a 50% of the area still under battle or planned to be under battle."

I'll quote a comment in full: "Yet, we see more and more comments that the front has collapsed, that the Ukrainian forces hang their heads on their chinstraps and that the only reason for the continuance of battle is that most of the Ukrainian forces find it impossible to conceive of the concept of laying down their arms.”

Honestly I cannot really see where the significant gains. I keep hearing about morale collapse and Ukrainians getting decimated, however at this stage it does not translate into massive territorial gains. 95% of LPR was liberated already two months ago, and DPR has barely budged. No signs of significants advances down south, at Avdiivka or Gulyai Pole.

This does not mean it will not happen as indeed they may be close to snapping. An important point nonetheless : from what I can vaguely understand, the strength of the Ukrainians lies in their artillery, which still functions quite well, and in their ability at sabotage and attacking supply lines. Unless they really are short on ammo, I’m guessing the Russians will continue advancing slowly to avoid ambushes or running into fire bags.

So as to the great Donbass campain : I’ll believe it when it’s done."

Posted by: Saggy | Jun 14 2022 16:34 utc | 34

@james | Jun 14 2022 16:14 utc | 26

A coking plant for Donbass coal. Russia/DPR controls the very large rail switching yard just to the SE of Avdiivka. Some of the trenchworks surrounding the town are visible in the latest GoogleEarth image from 6/22

Byproducts of coke production: coke oven gas, tar, ammonium sulfate, benzol, toluol and naphtha.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 14 2022 16:36 utc | 35

The chap doing a late evening beer run near St. Petersburg a wee while back ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bq8MfAlNPY ) was taking a video in Pushkin today, giving a few remarks on Western media reporting etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_Ddzmqdpi0

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 14 2022 16:41 utc | 36

@ the pessimist | Jun 14 2022 16:36 utc | 34

thanks! turns out it is a coke and a chemical plant...

Posted by: james | Jun 14 2022 16:42 utc | 37

The hold ground until killed tactic makes no sense from a military standpoint. But it does cause the RA to destroy economic assets which would, after the inevitable end of the fighting, have given the local population jobs, taxes, and other economic benefits. Perhaps they're using the cannon fodder for a scorched earth policy, something like the Morgenthau Plan for post WW II Germany.

Posted by: jhill | Jun 14 2022 16:48 utc | 38

Simply inform Z and his NATO handlers that their wilful failure to abide by the Geneva convention w.r.t. civilians and prisoners of war has cost them Odessa and with it the whole Black Sea coast of Ukraine.

Posted by: anon2020 | Jun 14 2022 16:48 utc | 39

The Zionist media is signaling to the Democrat party that the massive red wave approaching is going to wipe them out in both house and senate.
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 16:33 utc | 32

Hello, MAGA One Note! How do you idenfity the difference RNC Zionists and DNC Zionists without visible tatoos or mandatory ecumenical armbands? Inquiring preppers need to know, before the GHG APOCALYPSE arrives.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 14 2022 16:54 utc | 40

One can find links about literally dozens of top “former” intelligence agents now embedded in US media outlets as resident experts and talking heads.

Posted by: Jim Pi | Jun 14 2022 16:56 utc | 41

"Yesterday 300 projectiles were fired by the Ukrainian army or by 'nationalists' onto civilian areas of 'rebel' held city of Donetsk. There were at lest 7 dead and 22 wounded."

The UK's propaganda machine the BBC is reporting that its the Russian forces that are bombing civilian areas, interestingly they interviewed civilians in the area, you see their mouths move but you don't hear their voices, the only voice you hear is a voice over of someone supposedly interpreting the civilians words.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 14 2022 17:03 utc | 42

This is a civil war. The ideological divide between eastern and western regions is real and deep. The Ukrainian armed forces are losing ground but are not defeated - not yet - and while there are many conscripts fighting for them, there are many who are fighting for their homeland and willing to die for it. It is a hard, bitter struggle. Its not over.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 14 2022 17:03 utc | 43

Russia really should answer some questions. With all their surveillance and aerospace capabilities, why are the "Nats" still able to repeatedly get away with shelling civilians?

Why aren't two projectiles being sent into Kiev for every one that lands in Donetsk?

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:08 utc | 44

Most people refer to Azot plant in Severodonetsk as its name, but I suspect Azot chemical plant is just a description of the works, as azot is russian for nitrogen.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 17:10 utc | 45

Sln2002@39

Let’s put your sarcastic comment aside and let’s think about why all of a sudden these democrat leaning polling units at ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN etc are all reporting polling that is catastrophic to the democrats. They are not hiding it. It’s not helping the regime. It’s fueling the speculation about 2024. Let’s think about where we are - at the cusp of possibly historic hyperinflation and economic collapse. Possibly the geostrategic loss of Ukraine, even Europe itself. An existential crisis could be forming for those who manipulated events in a short sighted and self interested mirage that had no support from the nation. I think desperate move is quite possible.

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 17:13 utc | 46

Russia really should answer some questions. With all their surveillance and aerospace capabilities, why are the "Nats" still able to repeatedly get away with shelling civilians?

Why aren't two projectiles being sent into Kiev for every one that lands in Donetsk?

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:08 utc | 43

The question you seem to want Russia to answer is "Why aren't you killing civilians with the same indiscriminate savagery as the Ukronazis?" For decent people the question answers itself.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 14 2022 17:15 utc | 47

Putin's SMO in Ukraine has been very lucrative for the Russian governments coffers.


"Russia made $98 billion (93 billion euros) from fossil fuel exports during the first 100 days of its military operation in Ukraine, despite unprecedented sanctions, says a new report.

The report from the Center for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA), a Finland-based independent research organization, in a report published on Monday, said Russia’s revenues from fossil fuels in the period between February 24 and June 3 surged to a record high owing to rise in fossil fuel prices globally.

Russia's average export prices were almost 60 percent higher than last year, according to the organization."

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/06/14/683875/Russia-fuel-revenues-sanctions

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 14 2022 17:15 utc | 48

Russia really should answer some questions. With all their surveillance and aerospace capabilities, why are the "Nats" still able to repeatedly get away with shelling civilians?

Why aren't two projectiles being sent into Kiev for every one that lands in Donetsk?

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:08 utc | 43

Someone should have a Copy & Paste chart ready for this near the entrance of the bar, as it appears every single day.

They don`t get away with it, but in the here and now, it is hard to prevent due to the fortified border to the AFU controlled lands. These areas will probably taken from behind. You find a list of what he Allies do in every single daily report:

In addition, 1 Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missile near Vernopol'e, Kharkov region, and 14 Smerch rockets near Donetsk, Aleksandrovka, Donetsk People's Republic, Popasnaya, Lugansk People's Republic, and Sukhaya Kamenka, Kharkov region, have been intercepted.
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12425226@egNews

You can`t get all the missiles fired from MRLS though.

BTW, it is more viable a question, why the Western media does not report on these war crimes comitted in broad daylight and in front of them.

Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jun 14 2022 17:16 utc | 49

Regarding the MSM, one interpretation could be that they are responding to the "market". There are no "sexy" headlines from Ukraine to displace the latest attempt by Dems to prevent a potential Trump presidential run. When such a headline presents itself, I am sure the hysteria and hyperbole will dutifully return.

Another interpretation is that the MSM is, for all intents and purposes, the deep state and that they act according to the whims and wishes of said amorphous entity. That entity now requires some time to gorge itself on the tens of billions it has transferred from various taxpayers pockets across the world. As this process nears completion, we can expect a return to form prompted perhaps by some false flag or somesuch.

I think it's probably six of one and half a dozen of the other. Maybe that's how it is on the other side of the war. There are no "liberated" areas to visit to show off one's martial prowess/success. When you are losing all that's left is propaganda a la Arestovich and even he cannot pull out a Ukrainian victory from his rear end.

Posted by: eyeswideopen | Jun 14 2022 17:20 utc | 50

"Why aren't two projectiles being sent into Kiev for every one that lands in Donetsk?"

Citizen Fitz (43).

As the Ukrainian forces are killing citizens in the Dontesk, it doesn't then translate that Russian forces should be killing innocent civilians in Kiev, that is just plain wrong, not to mention its a war crime. Putin is well aware of this.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 14 2022 17:21 utc | 51

The answer to all your questions is not "42", it is epigenetic Vitamin D deficiency.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 14 2022 17:23 utc | 52

Susan

I've downloaded Opera browser which has a free VPN that hides your address by letting you use a server. I selected one in India. It's pretty simple and now I'm able to read blocked Russian sources again.

Posted by: Ralph Reed | Jun 14 2022 17:25 utc | 53

Recall reading somewhere that Advdiivka was very heavily fortified over last 7-8 years so could be a tough nut to crack. Being 13km from centre of Donetsk, UAF could inflict considerable damage on Donetsk if DPR/Russian forces try to attack. Better to grab something Ukraine wants more than Avdiivka and trade it in negotiations. Or deal with it later in operation, encircle it and besiege.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 14 2022 17:26 utc | 54

German prime news on public TV. "Tagesschau", reported on the shelling of Donezk market yesterday. Today ZDF Heute reported the shelling of the Donezk birth clinic.
Both were reported to be "attacked by the russian army".

Posted by: Tortuosit | Jun 14 2022 17:28 utc | 55

Once the UKR Lines of Conflict get pushed back beyond the Range of Gun+Missile Artillery - we should see Reconstruction quicken in the Secessionist Regions.

The Remaining Kiev-Lviv/Bandera-Nazi Section? Probably not until the SMO is completed and tuned down to PKOps w/No-Fly-Zones; and that can be awhile as Weapons will continue to be smuggled in.

I'm hoping that a UKR Surrender will cause Murican Gasoline Px to start dropping; and also for Congress to "Re-direct" the Sale of Domestic Crude/Gasoline/Diesel to Domestic Markets First.

Need the 2025 Congress to start Moar Drilling in CONUS+AK+Offshore...

Posted by: IronForge | Jun 14 2022 17:28 utc | 56

@Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 17:13 utc | 45

Your 'heros' are in on the game. They will fix nothing should they take congress. Congress' job is to rubber stamp policies decided by their 'betters' and engage in partisan food fights to distract the electorate. Unless you were born with a golden spoon up your bum you won't get nothing from them except table scraps.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 14 2022 17:29 utc | 57

@Malenkov, were the Russians to respond in kind I can assure you the shelling of civilians in Donetsk would soon decrease. Perhaps even stop. Better still to take out the artllery pieces before the nats can employ them.

This raises another question: why is the civil infrastructure in Ukraine still functioning? The bridges... the electricity... television... the water supplies... the internet... the bridges... the trains... the highways....

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:30 utc | 58

To b
On top of Ukraine and Trump, it would be interesting to monitor « gas price » « fertiliser price », or « inflation » !!!

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 14 2022 17:31 utc | 59

@SingingSam #31:

I've often wondered how, exactly, the MSM outlets are signaled by the CIA.

Read Presstitutes Embedded in the Pay of the CIA: A Confession from the Profession, the 2019 English translation of late Udo Ulfkotte’s Gekaufte Journalisten (the 2017 English translation was privished).

Posted by: S | Jun 14 2022 17:33 utc | 60

Why is it that you can access the Russian MoD website, but for me it's always "access denied"? Is there a trick to it? I'm in the USA.

Posted by: Susan | Jun 14 2022 16:01 utc | 20

It will depend on where you are located as to whether you have access or not.

Posted by: Barofsky | Jun 14 2022 17:34 utc | 61

The MSM's mandatory Two Minutes of Hate is more effective if there is only one villain on which to focus.

Posted by: Rodrigo | Jun 14 2022 17:35 utc | 62

>>>>: Republicofscotland | Jun 14 2022 17:21 utc | 50

As the Ukrainian forces are killing citizens in the Dontesk, it doesn't then translate that Russian forces should be killing innocent civilians in Kiev, that is just plain wrong, not to mention its a war crime. Putin is well aware of this.

It's called winning the peace - something America doesn't seem to understand but important if Russia wants to achieve its objectives in Ukraine and sustain them after the combat phases are over.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 14 2022 17:37 utc | 63

Regarding the three mercenaries who got a death sentence by DPR justice, I ´ wondering how many other such mercenaries are since Mariupol surrender in DPR or Russia custody.
Same question about NATO servicemen …
Is the first trial and sentence mainly a communication initiative ? When would similar trials be held ?
W heard of future trials for Ukr nazi militaries, but it may be a separate business.
Would some MoA afficionados have some info?

Posted by: Daniel | Jun 14 2022 17:37 utc | 64

Most people refer to Azot plant in Severodonetsk as its name, but I suspect Azot chemical plant is just a description of the works, as azot is russian for nitrogen.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 17:10 utc | 44

***

Azo compounds are known throughout chemistry. Interesting that English went with nitrogen while the country that gave science the periodic table named it Azot.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Jun 14 2022 17:43 utc | 65

Malenkov @ 10

You get that right....

Posted by: Castellio | Jun 14 2022 17:45 utc | 66

@52 Ralph
Thanks Ralph, I'll try it.

Posted by: Susan | Jun 14 2022 17:49 utc | 67

Pessimist@55

I think your assessment is partially correct especially in times where not much is going on. However, to imply that Congress completely ignores the will of the electorate is kind of a stretch for me. In the very least our fight becomes their fight. They work in their interests which align with our interests. Example would be with the censorship of conservative media and the attempt at criminalizing political activity.

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 17:50 utc | 68

Why aren't two projectiles being sent into Kiev for every one that lands in Donetsk?

Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:08 utc | 43
_____

2 wrongs = right?

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 14 2022 17:53 utc | 69

ghost Ship (60).

Thank you for the link, however it mentions winning the peace in Japan and Germany, the latter was divided by the conquerors, the former had no military after WWII it was protected by the USA, and now Japan is utterly hacked (Edward Snowden revealed this years ago) and totally under the influence of the USA. Going back to Germany it might as well come under the USA's Monroe Doctrine such is Germany's compliance with the USA's wishes, Germany's intelligence service the BND even has a HQ in Washington.

Winning the Peace has many faces in Afghanistan it was called winning hearts and minds, look how that ended, I suspect Putin knows the West and all its captured bodies such as AI and HRW are watching the RF's actions in Ukraine and Putin doesn't want to give them (pardon the pun) ammunition by killing civilians to use against him and Russia.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 14 2022 17:53 utc | 70

In response to

"
Susan

I've downloaded Opera browser which has a free VPN that hides your address by letting you use a server. I selected one in India. It's pretty simple and now I'm able to read blocked Russian sources again.
Posted by: Ralph Reed | Jun 14 2022 17:25 utc | 52
"


Yes, long time Opera user here and recent VPN user because....

I would suggest you turn the VPN option off when you are not using it.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 14 2022 17:54 utc | 71

I still don’t understand what happened with the servicemen of the 54th mechanized brigade. A surrendering enemy combatant is a dead enemy combatant, no? And wouldn’t the Russians, when providing a corridor for those surrendering, have a clear view of any approaching vehicles… and prevent them from driving up to the surrendering servicemen? A cordoned off area that is free from enemy fire which allows for laying down of arms and surrendering?

Or is that report saying that more than 30 non-surrendering members of the 54th Brigade were shot, while the 30 AFU servicemen with white flags were surrendering?

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 14 2022 17:54 utc | 72

@Bruised Northerner (Second posting from the start of comments)
Try to imagine the situation: Ukrainian line possible dug in. Russian troops advancing distance still between a few hundred to 1 mile between the lines. Ukraine will have prepared lines of fire to cover any advance. Anyway those willing to surrender carrying a white flag crossing that distance between the lines on foot. Than the AZOV barrage team arrives in APC with .50 or Russian equivalent gun tasked to prevent desertion and surrender. Now what do you think will happen? This is war and just like in WW2 this task of herding the troops into the slaughtehouse with no chance to escape was given to the diehard fanatics like for Germany the SS or for the Sovjet the Polit Commissar. Do consider that once the soldier realizes that going to the front equals near certain death they get really desperate to evade that fate. From the Russian line there is not much you can do beyond covering fire to have those probably AZOV affiliated Ukraine fanatics run for cover, but that same covering fire is limited by having those surrendering in between..

Posted by: JR | Jun 14 2022 17:55 utc | 73

we sure can't say that Trump is all take and no give.

or perhaps Operation: Trump? I predict the mighty primeval deluge we call "the media" will soon discover that a nation distracted by 1/6 failed to adequately supply freedom with the AK47's freedom needs.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 14 2022 17:58 utc | 74

The Zionist media is signaling to the Democrat party that the massive red wave approaching is going to wipe them out in both house and senate.
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 16:33 utc | 32

Let’s put your sarcastic comment aside and let’s think about why all of a sudden these democrat leaning polling units at ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN etc are all reporting polling that is catastrophic to the democrats.
Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 17:13 utc | 45

Thank you, MAGA One Note, for your valuable contribution to catastrophic waves of ZIONIST mirages since Brandeis infiltrated the Supreme Court of these United States.

Landssakes, you mistake my interest in your your superior knowledge of "geostrategic loss of Ukraine, even Europe itself" for sarcasm. I am shocked. ibn told, only moments ago, that you and I as well as UIDs "CitizenFitz, VTobserver, and NemesisCalling are an affiliated group of accounts working as a team here to recruit for Neo-Nazi groups". How is it you do not recognize me as your compatriot? Something must be done to standardize misunderestimation of ZIONIST and Neo-Nazi "online persona," as Special Counsel Mueller famously defined "unwitting co-conspirators" in the indictment of Internet Research Agency (2018)/

Pardon my untoward supposition: You should write a wikiwtf article outlining your methods of detection, so that all of the world may immediatly benefit from your wisdom until you secure interviews with NPR, VOA, and RFERL go "viral" by sheer force of repitition within then alternative media sphere of the most ignorant, litigious nation on the planet. Please, promise you will attend to the matter at your earliest convenience.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 14 2022 17:59 utc | 75

@ Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:30 utc | 56

@Malenkov, were the Russians to respond in kind I can assure you the shelling of civilians in Donetsk would soon decrease. Perhaps even stop. Better still to take out the artllery pieces before the nats can employ them.
Apparently your understanding of the Ukronazis is as poor as your understanding of the Russians.
This raises another question: why is the civil infrastructure in Ukraine still functioning? The bridges... the electricity... television... the water supplies... the internet... the bridges... the trains... the highways....
Should I cut/paste my previous answer? Russia isn't out to destroy civilians. In fact, Russia is out to do as little damage to civilian life as possible. Sorry if Russia's behavior doesn't slake your bloodlust and craving for things to go boom. You're an American, I assume?

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 14 2022 17:59 utc | 76

...why is the civil infrastructure in Ukraine still functioning? The bridges... the electricity... television... the water supplies... the internet... the bridges... the trains... the highways....

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 17:30 utc | 56

Since the fact that bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure is a war crime (irrespective of the fact that no Westerner has been convicted because of it, at least since the WWII) does not seem to bother you, have you considered another fact. Namely Russians consider the people of Ukraine their brothers. The SMO is not against the people of Ukraine, whom the Russians perceive as victims, but against the nazi establishment installed by the West.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 17:59 utc | 77

JR - those surrendering called by radio for a corridor. They waited until a corridor was established before surrendering. What you are describing is just the battlefield. No corridor.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jun 14 2022 18:02 utc | 78

In other news, Spain, Portugal then France will see temps in the 40C+ range over the next several weeks that will cause a surge in electricity demand to run AC systems that will further deplete gas supplies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2022 16:21 utc | 27

I never cease to be amazed how poorly informed Americans are about basic points on Europe. I don't know about Spain or Portugal, but France runs a large surplus of electricity through 80% nuclear generation. It's exported to UK among other countries through an undersea cable. I haven't checked whether Spain and Portugal also benefit, but I'm sure the cables exist.

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 14 2022 18:04 utc | 79

Fascinating Twitter thread I saw today for your consideration.

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1536474296578621442
Mark Hertling @MarkHertling
5:23 PM · Jun 13, 2022
188 Following 379.3K Followers

Due to the 1/6 report, 2A legislation & economic issues, details of Donbas battles & the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine are not at the forefront.

UA isn't "losing" & the action isn't stalled. It remains a slugfest in the east.

Here's a new 🧵on equipping UA. 1/21

As I said in past threads, the "new phase" of the fight (which started in early April), brought change.

-RU focus is on massing artillery, attempts at breakthrough.
-UA focus is logistics, active defense & maintaining will.

.
I've used this slide to describe the major shifts. 2/
[ed: https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1536474296578621442 ]

·
In the last few days, the @nytimes,@washingtonpost,@WSJ & others have reported Ukraine's demand for more combat equipment.

UA needs support, lots of it. It's important to understand the scope of their "asks," the art of the possible & the associated logistics requirements. 3/

·
I'll provide some of context for all that, from a soldier's perspective & battlefield experience as a Division Commander.

Some of what I say will be met with "they know more than you on what they need."

So please understand I'm just giving my perspective. 4/

·
Many reports today said the west is "lagging" & "indecisive" in providing equipment.

Those reports also say Ukraine needs nations to provide 1000 howitzers, 300 MLRS, 500 tanks, 2000 armored vehicles.

I'd offer some context for those requests. 5/

.
Let's talk artillery.

There are 10 active US Army Divisions. Depending on the "type" division (Armored, Infantry, Airborne, Air Assault, Light), each one is equipped differently.

Each has a Division Artillery Brigade -called a "DIVARTY"- which normally has 3 Battalions. 6/

·
During combat, each artillery battalion in DIVARTY isattached to the 3 combat brigades of the Division.

Each of those arty battalions has between 16-24 howitzers (either self-propelled M109A7 or towed M777) & usually 9 different "types" of rocket artillery (MLRS or HIMARS). 7/

·
To make it easy for math purposes, let's round up and say each Division has 24 howitzers & 9 rocket systems.

That's a TOTAL of 240 howitzers & 90 rocket systems in all ten of the active US Army Divisions .

That's an indicator of the scope of the UA "asks." 8/

·
The US provided 108 M777 to UA a few weeks ago, the equivalent of almost 5 artillery battalions. Those came with 200,000 rounds of ammunition.

The US also sent 4 HIMARS as a proof of principle. There will likely be more of those in the next tranche. 9/

·
NATO countries are also sending cannons & ammunition, some w/ different chassis, fire control systems, training requirements.

They wont match RU guns 1:1, as western militaries have other methods to counter the RU artillery threat. (That is hard to explain in a thread). 10/

·
Part of the "ask" that is required but usually not discussed in the requirement for support for all this equipment. Parts, mechanics, maintenance, etc.

That comes from elsewhere.

Along with a "DIVARTY," each US Division also has a Division Support Command, or "DISCOM." 11/

·
NATO countries are also sending cannons & ammunition, some w/ different chassis, fire control systems, training requirements.

They wont match RU guns 1:1, as western militaries have other methods to counter the RU artillery threat. (That is hard to explain in a thread). 10/

·
Part of the "ask" that is required but usually not discussed in the requirement for support for all this equipment. Parts, mechanics, maintenance, etc.

That comes from elsewhere.

Along with a "DIVARTY," each US Division also has a Division Support Command, or "DISCOM." 11/

·
The DISCOM is a very large organization w/ mechanics, part suppliers & parts, truck drivers, fuelers, equipment handlers & all other things that are part of supply chain operations.

That DISCOM "supports the supporters" that exists internally to each battalion/brigade. 12/

·
What these soldiers do is ensure each piece of high-tech equipment continues to work, is supplied with ammo/fuel/spare parts/electronics.

When delivering cannons...there's requirements to deliver all the "stuff."

There's more supporters than trigger pullers in a US Division.13/

·
It's relatively easy to train soldiers to operate cannons. But there's also the need for EXTENSIVE training of mechanics, suppliers, & other supporters.

And...you must ensure the supply chain (including the route for all this to take place) operates smoothly. 14/

·
It's an estimated 400 miles from Ukraine's western border to Kyiv...another 200+ from Kyiv to the front lines.

The military calls that a "line of communications" or LOC. Keeping LOCs secure & open in combat is tough work, but it's required. 15/

·
Add to this, the different kind of equipment Ukraine is requesting is coming from a variety of NATO and non-NATO nations.

Not all of it is the same. That exacerbates parts & maintenance requirements. This compounds supply chain & LOC challenges. 16/

·
In this thread, we've talked just artillery.

Now multiply cannon issues to fielding new & technologically advanced tanks, infantry vehicles, aviation, etc.

In effect, UA is wanting to field a new army, w/ western equipment, w/unfamiliar processes, while fighting a war. 17/

·
As a division commander in combat, I fielded several weapons systems -some complicated, some not- during a 15-month deployment.

The easy fieldings took weeks...hard ones took longer. Units are pulled off line & trained. Mechanics learn their stuff. Supplies are restocked. 18/

·
And I had the advantage of a great DISCOM, practiced processes, secured supply lines, soldiers that knew what they were getting, the ability to pull folks offline and replace them with others while equipment was fielded.

UA has none of that. 19/

·
Make no mistake, UKR requires support from the US & NATO.

The courage & tenacity UA has shown is exemplary & they are fighting for all of us. [ed: Liar! Traitor!]

UA will win, but it will be a tough fight. [ed: sad trombone noise]

And...supporters ought understand the dynamics of what they're facing. 20/ [ed: some LSD might help here]

·
Sorry if this thread has pissed anyone off, but these are the challenges associated with transforming and modernizing an army...and it requires more than just people saying "give them everything they need." 21/21


Rather than the thread 'pissing me off', I think this former division commander's thread does a fine job of making the case for NEVER have and certainly NOT now sending ANY more kill toys to UA because it's f'king pointless - something the author seems oblivious to. [sigh...]

This is so in-your-face preposterous that I'm starting to think it's all a ploy to send a bunch of these weapons somewhere else. Either another evil nation that shouldn't have them, or maybe just to the bottom of the Atlantic ocean [MIC champagne glasses clinking at the profit windfall].

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 14 2022 18:07 utc | 80

In other news, Spain, Portugal then France will see temps in the 40C+ range over the next several weeks that will cause a surge in electricity demand to run AC systems that will further deplete gas supplies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 14 2022 16:21 utc | 27

I never cease to be amazed how poorly informed Americans are about basic points on Europe. I don't know about Spain or Portugal, but France runs a large surplus of electricity through 80% nuclear generation. It's exported to UK among other countries through an undersea cable. I haven't checked whether Spain and Portugal also benefit, but I'm sure the cables exist.

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 14 2022 18:04 utc | 76


You may be right about the surplus, but a more relevant fact is that individual AC units in residential areas are still very rare in France. As a matter of fact, it is not allowed to install AC units in older buildings in Paris because they would disfigure the facades, the pride of Paris.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 18:13 utc | 81

Why is it that you can access the Russian MoD website, but for me it's always "access denied"? Is there a trick to it? I'm in the USA.

Posted by: Susan | Jun 14 2022 16:01 utc | 20
------------------------------------------------

Well, you've been sanctioned by your government. 😏
Your freedom is taken away.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 14 2022 18:16 utc | 82

I've downloaded Opera browser which has a free VPN that hides your address by letting you use a server. I selected one in India. It's pretty simple and now I'm able to read blocked Russian sources again.
Posted by: Ralph Reed | Jun 14 2022 17:25 utc | 52
------------------------------------

Looks like Indians live in a much freer country with their Modi.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 14 2022 18:19 utc | 83

@pagan, I said "civil infratructure". Not "civilians". They're not the same thing.

And nope, Russia has definitely bombed Ukrainian "civil infrastructure" before. Just on a miniscule level. No war crimes there?

Do you not find it strange how all that Ukrainian materiel still is slipping through to the front when it could be reduced to a trickle, or even stopped altogether, within a week or less? Just by taking out the bridges... and railways. Not forgetting the electric grid.

Perhaps Putin has a greater, a secret, plan. OK. That's possible. But find me one... ONE... military thinker who's ever said, "going slow is soundest military strategy."

Something strange is going on in Ukraine.

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 18:20 utc | 84

Chevrus, (Response to post #16),

I think Russia had multiple options other than invading. For the record, I am not buying into the Western Narrative. I don't fully buy the narrative of any side in this conflict. I am asking a question which is admittedly abstract about what the standards are for judging violations of laws of war and human rights standards. It's a hypothetical.

As I see it Russia had the following options, short of invasion:

1. Bring an official resolution to the UN with proof that the shelling in the Donbas and Luhansk regions coupled with the human rights violations was primarily the fault of Ukraine;
2. Request the presence of international monitors in the Donbas and Luhansk regions;
3. Continue the game of making the US look foolish by not invading Ukraine;
4. Threaten to bomb Ukrainian forces if they sought to invade DPR and LPR by force;
5. Continue diplomatic pressure to split NATO;

On the whole, I think Russia could have treated this as a longer term issue with which pressure and diplomacy would have weakened NATO's position over the long run. I think that this post explained it better than I can:

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Jun 14 2022 18:23 utc | 85

@malenkov, so, you too don't know the difference between "civil infrastructure" and "civilian"

Oh well, no surprise there.

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 18:25 utc | 86

You may be right about the surplus, but a more relevant fact is that individual AC units in residential areas are still very rare in France. As a matter of fact, it is not allowed to install AC units in older buildings in Paris because they would disfigure the facades, the pride of Paris.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 18:13 utc | 78

In Paris you don't need AC. In the south you might, but I don't think they do very much. It's a Mediterranean climate; there's not a lot of AC in Mediterranean climates, as it's not too hot.

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 14 2022 18:26 utc | 87

This is so in-your-face preposterous that I'm starting to think it's all a ploy to send a bunch of these weapons somewhere else. Either another evil nation that shouldn't have them, or maybe just to the bottom of the Atlantic ocean [MIC champagne glasses clinking at the profit windfall].

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 14 2022 18:07 utc | 77

The MIC regularly has to get rid of old inventory in order to be able to accept new orders authorized by Congress. So part of what is going on is house cleaning before rebuilding inventory. They need the Ukies to hold on another 6-12 months.

Of course there are many other factors at play, but this is no doubt one.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 14 2022 18:27 utc | 88

3 months in and civilians are still being shelled in Donetsk while nazi families in the west are safe and comfortable their cities intact while eastern cities are destroyed.

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Jun 14 2022 18:27 utc | 89

I think Russia had multiple options other than invading. For the record, I am not buying into the Western Narrative.

Posted by: Chip Poirot | Jun 14 2022 18:23 utc | 82

But you buy into the US narrative.

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 14 2022 18:29 utc | 90

"How do you idenfity the difference RNC Zionists and DNC Zionists without visible tatoos or mandatory ecumenical armbands?"

sln2002 | Jun 14 2022 16:54 utc | 39

----

Let’s put your sarcastic comment aside...

Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 17:13 utc | 45
______

You neatly sidestepped sln's salient question. What real difference would it make if one wing of the Zionist Party prevails over the other wing of the Zionist Party? American democracy is pure puppet-theater: ass and elephant puppets fight over marginal issues while the play's sponsors pick the pockets of the audience. Trump was no less in Israel's pocket than any Democrat, and I see little substantive difference between the two establishment parties WRT Israel, war, empire, Wall Street, regressive taxation (class warfare), healthcare racketeering, and even immigration. There are distinctions at the margins (guns, abortion, race, gender, etc.), yes, but with very little difference.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 14 2022 18:29 utc | 91

Do you not find it strange how all that Ukrainian materiel still is slipping through to the front when it could be reduced to a trickle, or even stopped altogether, within a week or less? Just by taking out the bridges... and railways. Not forgetting the electric grid.

Perhaps Putin has a greater, a secret, plan. OK. That's possible. But find me one... ONE... military thinker who's ever said, "going slow is soundest military strategy."

Something strange is going on in Ukraine.
Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 14 2022 18:20 utc | 81

1. Armchair Generals don't understand war. No doubt true, but...
2. An Unpopular view here but this might just be a managed conflict whose purpose is to collapse the West with elites in the latter fully on board with that objective. The conflict provides cover so that the native population doesn't realize that their own leaders are behind the disasters unfolding day by day...

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 14 2022 18:32 utc | 92


"In WWII, during the Battle of Britain, the German strategy of concentrating their attention on RAF airfields had the RAF on the ropes, a couple of weeks from being wiped out."

This not so.

The Luftwaffe, contrary to popular myth (usually exemplified in the 1960s movie) didn’t shift to London out of Hitler’s misguided rage about the British bombing Berlin; they made the shift because they (wrongly) believed they’d worn Fighter Command down to “its last fifty Spitfires” and shifting to sending massive, well-escorted raids against London would force them to come up and fight, where they could be swarmed and destroyed.

https://www.quora.com/How-close-were-the-British-to-losing-the-Battle-of-Britain-in-WW2

Posted by: Rob | Jun 14 2022 18:32 utc | 93

It is military operation, and it is special one at that. It means, Russia doesn't attack civilian infrastructure and the civilians. Russia is not going to reciprocate to atrocities of the Ukies and their foreign "volunteers" with the same coin. It is not what Hollywood train you with, the Russians are actually kind people, very kind people.

UN has its headquarters in the US, and the US pay most of its fees, so one can understand why the UN cannot be trusted. Anyway, after this special military operation, the UN will be weakened enough to be recreated.

Posted by: ostro | Jun 14 2022 18:35 utc | 94

Ukranian forces (UAF, and/or Azov?) seem to have made a habit of hunkering down in big industrial plants. First Azovstal in Mariupol, now Azot in Severodonetsk. This creates a dilemma for Russian forces: massive artillery attacks there would create clouds of poison gasses that would kill/maim lotsa civilians, and then make it harder for Russian infantry to advance (some prolly have masks, but still). Russia would prolly also prefer to capture those plants intact for economic reasons; and Ukraine would expect that, whether it's true or not. And any explosions in those plants will be trumpeted in Western media as (more) Russian atrocities (while glossing over Ukrainian responsibility for militarizing the plants).

I expect that we will see more of this - Ukrainian forces holing up in industrial facilities. And it seems like almost every small city in SE Ukraine has at least one old dirty industrial area. They're easy to spot using Goog Maps (or whatever); there's always a section of town that looks like someone poured coffee on the map - dirty, brown-grey, every building & street covered with soot & grime, no living plants. The Ukrainian Oligarchs that own them now don't seem to have any more regard for environmental concerns than the Soviet Bureaucrats who built the plants.

Posted by: elkern | Jun 14 2022 18:37 utc | 95

Sievierodonetsk Association "Azot" is the third largest producer of ammonia in Ukraine and it is one of Europe's largest chemical companies producing nitrogen fertilizers, methanol, acetic acid, vinyl acetate and its derivatives, acetylene, formalin, catalysts, household chemicals, and other chemical products.

An estimated 1,500 tons of vinyl chloride, the building block of a type of plastic, 3,000 times higher than permitted levels, burned into the air or poured into the soil and river, said municipal officials in Pancevo. Huge quantities of other noxious chemicals burned or gushed out of storage tanks, said town officials. Those chemicals included an estimated 15,000 tons of ammonia, used to make fertilizer; 800 tons of hydrochloric acid and 250 tons of liquid chlorine, used for several industrial products; vast quantities of dioxin, a component of Agent Orange and other defoliants, and 100 tons of mercury, the officials said.

By dawn after the night of the attack, dozens of people were hospitalized gasping for air, struggling to see and unable to digest food, witnesses said.

NATO officials, reached by phone in Mons, Belgium, said the industrial site had been a key target in the drive to deny fuel and other resources to the army.

And where in Ukraine is Pancevo, you ask? Why, not in Ukraine at all but in Serbian Yugoslavia of 1999.

Yes, dear friends. The very same type of chemical producer that the Russians are now reluctant to bomb, NATO deliberately targeted in 1999.

So, Russia - do not hesitate. Do not hesitate for one second to implement the 'rules-based intl order' to your satisfaction.


Posted by: Mondo Cane | Jun 14 2022 18:37 utc | 96

OT. Tell that to the relatives of hundreds of 2003 heat wave victims in Paris alone, and more than 15000 dead in France.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 18:37 utc | 97

How willing to fight would Ukrainians be if their families and homes were under attack like those living in Donetsk? Moral high ground delusions have no place in an existential war against a satanic evil empire.

Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Jun 14 2022 18:37 utc | 98

OT response to:
In Paris you don't need AC. In the south you might, but I don't think they do very much. It's a Mediterranean climate; there's not a lot of AC in Mediterranean climates, as it's not too hot.

Posted by: laguerre | Jun 14 2022 18:26 utc | 84

Tell that to the relatives of hundreds of 2003 heat wave victims in Paris alone, and more than 15000 dead in France.

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 18:37 utc | 94

Posted by: Pagan | Jun 14 2022 18:42 utc | 99

DougH@88

“ what difference if one party prevails”

Trump began a new era. Promises Made Promises Kept. It was a slogan said at the rallies and it happened to be true.

Posted by: Bobolinski | Jun 14 2022 18:42 utc | 100

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