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June 23, 2022
Open (Not Ukraine) Thread 2022-93
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@97 psycho
Like it or not. The constitution has made this clear that this is not a guaranteed right under the constitution.
Therefore, it goes to the states to decide.
As I have noted before, this will fracture the monolithic federal leviathon which, in the end, helps the rest of the world because you will finally see states buck the fed. The ramifications for this are immense.
Not only that, but you will have a competition between states now where we will get to see if a Christian-means of organization and spendthrifting actually improves the state’s lot. I think it will.
Whatever you think of patriarchy, this ruling has the potential to open up questioning that the Federal gov’t has so desperately wanted in its overreach to remain muted.
“We will see…”
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 15:53 utc | 101
The only thing notable about any of this is that a former US general and head of Brookings resigned. That’s it.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 24 2022 14:10 utc | 91
Except for … part I: Allen indicted under FARA (ECHR just criminalized RF’s FARA in order to radicalize NGOs in RU) and part II: unregistered lobbyist of QATAR (along with UAE, Habeck’s preferred “Global Gateway” to independence from Russian gas and US LNG)
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 15:55 utc | 102
I suspect that many States will craft hybrid laws. Personally I think the Texas heartbeat law makes sense, i.e. once it is clearly a living being capable of feeling pain etc. then it has rights just like every other living being under the constitution. [snip]
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 15:20 utc | 98
I’m not categorically opposed to this argument, but I do question whether response-to-stimulus is the same thing as “feeling pain.” It seems to me that the latter presupposes consciousness, and I’m not convinced that an early-stage fetus with a heartbeat possesses consciousness.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 15:57 utc | 103
Like it or not. The constitution [sic; recte SCOTUS] has made this clear that this is not a guaranteed right under the constitution. [snip]
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 15:53 utc | 101
Following that logic, SCOTUS should also strike down the Loving v. Virginia ruling. I’d love to see Justice Thomas rule on that one.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 16:00 utc | 104
I suspect that many States will craft hybrid laws. then it has rights just like every other living being under the constitution. But again: I don’t see what the problem is with leaving it up to each State to decide for themselves and craft laws accordingly. Some people like to freak out about things and then demand some sort of one-size-fits-all government solution. That way lies tyranny [sic].
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 15:20 utc | 98
I detect a few gaps in your understanding of US American history, articles of and amendments to the Bill of Rights enumerated in the US Constitution. No wonder you decamped to “North America”, south of the Rio Grande, where purportedly you are not fluent in the languages of the natives.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 16:06 utc | 105
@104 malenkov
I would have to read the majority opinion of this overturning to comment further.
However, wrt to your comment, doing a quick read-up on the subject, the 14th amendment comes into play.
Where in the constitution does it mention abortion or other death-care as services that must be provided? It does not.
I predict that further down the line, there will be a supreme court case that will look at the problem of the illegality of the mother, herself, terminating her own pregnancy. For that case, they will need to interrogate the question as to what makes a human being? At what moment in its development does it become intrinsically human, i.e. un-copy-able. At the perfect moment of conception, you also have the creation of a perfectly unique human being, in my assesment, where the full rights of any human is thus guaranteed, not just by our constitution.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 16:17 utc | 106
@ NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 16:17 utc | 106
Of course there’s no reference to abortion in the Constitution; nor is there — my point — any right to miscegenation. There’s also no reference to corporate personhood, and the only explicitly uninfringeable right is the right to keep and bear arms.
I can appreciate a “strict constructionist” reading of the Constitution, although all such a reading does IMHO is demonstrate the Constitution’s egregious inadequacy and obsolescence. However, I think it only fair to point out that there are no “strict constructionists.” Those who claim to be are pickers-and-choosers with an agenda.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 16:25 utc | 107
I would have to read the majority opinion of this overturning to comment further.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 16:17 utc | 106
As far as I can understand (not having followed the issue closely) it is not so much a problem of abortion per se. It seems the issue is a federal mandate and states’ rights. The federal government has been infringing on states rights for a long time and the question is whether this is a moment when the tide is about to turn.
Posted by: Pagan | Jun 24 2022 16:35 utc | 108
Black Panthers to the Supreme Court! damn. uncle clarence forgot to designate which weapons he finds acceptable in the courtroom that must be included in the “anywhere and everywhere” that guns can be toted.
and uncle clarence citing dred scott for his opinions is no worse than anyone else citing any other part of the us constitution, whose original intent was always to exclude women and perpetuate slavery.
but please, bitch about uncle clarence while quoting “all men are created equal.” at least he’s honest enough to admit he’s quoting a law whose goal was to perpetuate discrimination.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 16:37 utc | 109
Black Panthers to the Supreme Court! damn. uncle clarence forgot to designate which weapons he finds acceptable in the courtroom that must be included in the “anywhere and everywhere” that guns can be toted. [snip]
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 16:37 utc | 109
Well, of course not. If he were an honest “strict constructionist,” then he would certainly have to admit that anyone has the right to carry a dirty nuke into the SCOTUS chambers. Strange how “strict constructionists” always carve out an exception to the “uninfringeable” Second Amendment right when it comes to courtrooms.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 16:47 utc | 110
@107 malenkov
Like I said, the question is not settled but will be when states prosecute mothers for terminating their own pregnancies by themselves (iow, they are charged with murded) or with the help of a physician who will also be charged with murder.
Then, the supreme court will decide what is a human being as it portends to the birthing process.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 16:53 utc | 111
malenkov | Jun 24 2022 16:47 utc | 110
maintain the monopoly of violence, i guess.
stupid me. i thought the law was supposed to be a substitute for trial by ordeal and combat. in theory, anyway, even though in its noblest sentiments, “all men are created equal” e.g., it’s a tool of violence, oppression, whitewash for uncle honkey’s “heaps of negroes, chickens and cows” (ts eliot)
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 16:57 utc | 112
malenkov | Jun 24 2022 16:47 utc | 110
and what will uncle clearence rule when he realizes that bullets are stronger than bills? i mean, when this heavily-armed populace decides it’s time to tell the landlord and the legislator and the banker to fuck off and die.
i’m pretty sure that uncle clearance will rediscover gun control. muy rapido.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:01 utc | 113
“… you will have a competition between states now where we will get to see if a Christian-means of organization and spendthrifting actually improves the state’s lot. I think it will…”
NemesisCalling@101
There are all sorts of problems with this post, indicative perhaps of the excitement the news created in your mind.
I suspect that by “the Constitution” in your first sentence you meant the Court.
But what does the above quotation mean? You must be aware that governments have been claiming to be inspired by Christianity for many, blood soaked and mean minded years, so I would not hold out much hope that governments like those currently in Texas and Mississippi are likely to come up with any equitable or efficient solutions to economic problems.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 24 2022 17:10 utc | 114
Pagan | Jun 24 2022 16:35 utc | 108
yeah, the plantation owners care so much about kids.
it’s about control, nothing else. obviously none of these people give an uncle clearance pubic hair for life. they expend endless energy to ensure the state has the right to execute disabled people, while immunizing state murder on the streets.
again, because they care about life. it’s only going to get worse. US failure, retreat and humiliation on the international stage = increased repression and violence domestically. less capacity to exploit international resources incl labor = more exploitation at home. can’t be otherwise under capitalism.
and who will the opus dei catholics making a 6 to 9 majority on the SC have as altar boys if…never mind. you get it…
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:11 utc | 115
i mean, when this heavily-armed populace decides it’s time to tell the landlord and the legislator and the banker to fuck off and die. [snip]
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:01 utc | 113
I think we all know by now that the heavily-armed populace will choose different targets should that time ever come. (Only the Occupy types protested against the groups you named, after all.) Pick your favorite unloved minority! They’ll be the targets. Wealthy blacks living in tony Virginia suburbs of DC will probably be safe, however.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 17:12 utc | 116
bevin | Jun 24 2022 17:10 utc | 114
you mean there’s an actual HISTORY, a long history, of people claiming this kind of crap?
gtfoh. history is bunk. anyway, we can’t get it right if we don’t keep trying.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:14 utc | 117
“..the supreme court will decide what is a human being as it portends to the birthing process.”
NemesisCalling@111
And that will be good enough for you? Most of the members of the Supreme Court of the United States would have been dis-barred in any properly run legal system. They are an appalling bunch and giving them jobs for life and impunity has not improved them.
A society that leaves the definition of life itself up to a crowd of thoroughly corrupted and, I imagine spectacularly ignorant of biological matters- as they certainly are of ethical questions, corporate legal advisors is in deep trouble. But then, we knew that anyway.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 24 2022 17:16 utc | 118
@114 bevin
Your failure to understand the implications of this ruling is not surprising. You are not American and do not have a finger on the pulse of what is actually happening in this country, culturally.
AS AN AMERICAN, and imo, this ruling will create an even more fractured discord between the states. The weakening of this fabric will reverberate also in the cohesiveness of America’s FP where states will be competing with each other as opposed to the paradigm of the last 30 years with a global war on this or that. The states’ energy will cease to be gathered and focused through a globalist prism abroad and instead will turn inward.
For the life of me, I just can’t understand why all anti-empire barflies seem incapable of grasping this. It will severely weaken the globalist hold over America.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 17:25 utc | 119
@ 119 addendum
The “globalist hold” over America of course meaning the fact that America has stood as a Golem for a group of very unpatriotic people for quite some time.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 17:27 utc | 120
malenkov | Jun 24 2022 17:12 utc | 116
people already stand down ICE officials, sheriffs, etc. now they need a lesson in where to point their guns at.
how about, for starters, we aim guns outside the home instead of inside the home? how hard is that?
btw, i have zero guns and no interest in a shooting war in the US streets. the goal, anyway, is to “stand down,” not pull the trigger. it’s a threat display, first. for self-protection.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:29 utc | 121
@118 bevin
Like it or not, the U.S. is a nation of laws.
Codifying those laws is a long and arduous process spanning three branches of government.
I agree that the phenomenon of old justices deciding once and for all when a perfect human life occurs in the birthing process smacks of the same technicity that is the bane of all western philosophy.
But I will take the good (making abortion illegal, once and for all), discard the bad, and go on living a Christian life. Your country can do whatever the hell it wants but will face itself as its harm comes back to it sooner or later.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 17:34 utc | 122
NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 17:27 utc | 120
“very unpatriotic people”
you didn’t need to tell anyone that the highest virtue in your religious superstate is bowing and scraping before the flag.
“there is a balm in Gilead…
to set the fetus free…”
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:36 utc | 123
@ NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 17:25 utc | 119
AS AN AMERICAN I strongly believe this has and will have nothing to do with “weakening globalist control,” as those globalists control both sides of the “values voter” divide. Vote Team Red, vote Team Blue, get a globalist either way. And if push really were to come to shove between the “liberals” and the “conservatives,” just remember which side has most of the firepower. Hint: It ain’t the liberals.
—
@ rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 17:29 utc | 121
how about, for starters, we aim guns outside the home instead of inside the home? how hard is that?
If things get much worse, it will be all too easy. That’s precisely what frightens me. After all, nobody is going to ask you whether or not you want a shooting war.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 17:38 utc | 124
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 17:34 utc | 122
The obsession with unborn foetuses isn’t any core christian belief, it’s a later development; and a control mania over women, particularly over poor women (rich women will just get it done somewhere with their fuck you money)
Was it George Carlin who said “If you’re pre-term, you’re alright – if you’re pre-school, you’re fucked?”
I’ll take seriously the programmatic obsession with other women’s pregnancies by people who think their religion extends to others, when they have the same obsession with supporting families and an environment amenable to child-rearing to the point that nobody would even consider abortion out of difficulty.
Oh, and when they stop having meltdowns over breastfeeding. Nobody ever got hurt by a tit.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 24 2022 17:57 utc | 125
@124 malenkov
Then you think that this ruling will help the globalist project by uniting the people of America to focus their energy on an imaginable global other? (i.e. Global-warming, GWoT, Putler?)
Which is it, my friend? It either fits into the plan of the globalists or it is an unforeseen consequence of the DJT-phenomenon.
Certainly, at this stage in the game, we can no longer say, “It’s all theater.”
The ensuing domestic discord will damage the focus of the united states’ focus on global others, full-stop. It’s a win.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 18:01 utc | 126
malenkov | Jun 24 2022 17:38 utc | 124
yeah, getting to know my neighbors to such a degree that i don’t want to shoot them is already too damn difficult. just wait till there’s no Netflix. or toilet paper. or trees.
anyway, we are playing a game of “rock, paper, scissors” except it’s with “paper, gun and water.” the water wins. always. but gun beats paper.
i don’t mean to be so flippant about this, but they’ve flooded the world, the world not just the US, with guns so that we will shoot at each other. some gun control might be in order for fingers made to itch against rooskies, messicans and queers. oh, and the not chrustians, too.
to really accelerate the conflict, get these heavily-armed roided up celibate resentment factories to start marrying indocumentadas and cranking out bebes de ancora. “esta es mi esposa” and fuck ICE and the USG. get the do not a goddam thing churches to sanctify and bless and offer refuge and support, because, like Nemesis, “they love love love the family.” (the church as an institution will never ever go for that, since it’s just a clown tossing wonder bread at the audience in the state circus, but its members surely will.)
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 18:08 utc | 127
@ 125 Arganthonios
The person who is developing in the mother’s womb is not an object yet is a creation.
The person who is developing in the mother’s womb is just as much a product of the man as the woman.
The woman is the most-revered custodian of this life. The man therefore should be a man and protect this woman.
The objectification of human life is the ultimate end goal of technicity. Therefore, it seems that the U.S. is turning back from globalism where you think that human life should remain objectified.
No surprise here.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 18:10 utc | 128
I see there’s a bunch of nonsensical jawing over the USSC’s overturning Roe v Wade. The aim at its overturning has always been to create further divide in the populace so ruling would become easier. So, instead of uniting their efforts and pointing their guns at the Neoliberal Parasites who are ruining the nation, the escalation of the Culture War will keep the populace divided and pointing their guns at each other. Do please note the timing! and current state of uproar that was finally aiming in the right direction.
@129 karlof1
Are we to assume then, Karlof1, that the unity of a people IS NOT NECESSARY when harnessing its collective wealth and power to engage a global other?
Because that is what you are saying and it seems to me that you are missing the boat.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 18:13 utc | 130
karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 18:11 utc | 129
precisely.
and almost w/o exception the anti-abortion fascists don’t want people, but esp women, to have access to contraception.
oh well, women’s health is going the way of the tampon and baby food…
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 18:18 utc | 131
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 16:06 utc | 105
‘I suspect that many States will craft hybrid laws. then it has rights just like every other living being under the constitution. But again: I don’t see what the problem is with leaving it up to each State to decide for themselves and craft laws accordingly. Some people like to freak out about things and then demand some sort of one-size-fits-all government solution. That way lies tyranny [sic].’
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 15:20 utc | 98
“I detect a few gaps in your understanding of US American history, articles of and amendments to the Bill of Rights enumerated in the US Constitution.”
Am curious where I am so off. Always like to learn. But to clarify one point: by ‘hybrid law’ I meant that they may modify old abortion laws making any form of abortion a crime to define situations where abortion is permitted versus situations where it is forbidden and/or criminal.
For ‘one-size-fits-all’ read ‘federal.’
And I do believe that if you allow the federal government to supercede all State laws that you will end up with tyranny. If you disagree, again would be interested to learn in what way.
As it is, your ad hominem alone says more about you than the original post. I am sure you can do much better and warmly invite you to do so!!
NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 18:10 utc | 128
“The person”
at what point in the journey into the matrix does it become a person? ejaculation?
“judge thomas, she wouldn’t go out w/me so i had to masterbate instead, which is preemptive abortion.” judge thomas finds for the plaintiff, incl punitive damages for the harm done to his reproductive rights….
the war state fights over the female body, like they fight over who owns the food supply. same thing, really. fertility. patria potestas, pater familias
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 18:41 utc | 133
Then, the supreme court will decide what is a human being as it portends to the birthing process.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 16:53 utc | 111
I don’t believe they have a mandate to determine such things. They can resolve disputes involving constitutional controversies but are not scientists or philosophers. And again: one State might decide that life begins at conception, legally speaking, and craft statutes accordingly; another state might decide that life does not begin until the first breath has been taken and craft quite different statutes accordingly. It’s an issue that comes down to opinion or authority (same thing ultimately) so there is no one single answer that all will agree with.
Personally, I think the government should stay out of it. But that means that government agencies should neither provide or prohibit the procedures nor force practitioners into one decision or another. Leave it to people to decide. But that sort of approach no longer seems an option. Everything must get written down!!!
I see there’s a bunch of nonsensical jawing over the USSC’s overturning Roe v Wade. The aim at its overturning has always been to create further divide in the populace so ruling would become easier. So, instead of uniting their efforts and pointing their guns at the Neoliberal Parasites who are ruining the nation, the escalation of the Culture War will keep the populace divided and pointing their guns at each other. Do please note the timing! and current state of uproar that was finally aiming in the right direction.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 18:11 utc | 129
I tend to think the abortion question is being opened up again now in order to protect the Democrats from obliteration in the coming election. I think it is generous of the Republicans to give Biden & The Dems this issue to run against at such a crucial moment.
Not saying it will work.
Clarence Thomas, of course, believes in what he is doing.
Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 24 2022 18:51 utc | 135
Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 18:47 utc | 134
It’s an issue that comes down to opinion or authority…
particularly how much authority is given to female opinion and how valued female labor is.
the labor of birth means nothing to anti-abortionists. you don’t see a single one of these fascist zealots supporting measures to help the labor of birth and child-rearing. not a one. it’s about nothing, nothing, but control of women, whose wellbeing they do not give the tiniest shit about.
the purpose of every measure adopted is to make people’s lives more difficult. cruelty is the goal. crushing, vicious sadism.
there is no question what women want re reproductive health. none. anybody saying otherwise is simply a liar.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 18:57 utc | 136
Then you think that this ruling will help the globalist project [bla bla bla]
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 18:01 utc | 126
It will neither help nor hurt, because their control is already as good as absolute as it gets.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:18 utc | 137
I tend to think the abortion question is being opened up again now in order to protect the Democrats from obliteration in the com
Yes, exactly. I imagine that there are champagne corks a-popping in Dim Party HQs all across the country right now. “We finally have an issue, yay!” But the joke’s on them. Few people need an abortion RIGHT NOW, whereas everyone is feeling the fiscal pinch RIGHT NOW. And guess which party is being blamed for the fiscal pinch? It ain’t the Rethugs.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:21 utc | 138
I don’t believe they have a mandate to determine such things. [snip]
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 18:47 utc | 134
Pah. Yeah, that’s what everyone thought until Marbury v. Madison, or for that matter all those court rulings that mandated a specific remedy, invented by the courts out of whole cloth (namely, school busing), to remedy inequalities in school education.
Actually, I almost wish* that SCOTUS had ruled that life begins at conception, and ordered the states to formulate appropriate punitive legislation. One tires of SCOTUS’s oh-so-coy salami-slice tactics.
(*but only almost. I am a strong believer in women’s reproductive rights.)
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:25 utc | 139
oh well, women’s health is going the way of the tampon and baby food…
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 18:18 utc | 131
I believe the baby food issue has already been taken care of by the Invisible Hand. Yay.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:28 utc | 140
Quite a bit of generalizations coming from the “losing side” of this abortion ruling.
Fascists, patriarchs, anti-women, etc
rfb1.5 is doing it here.
The fire has been lit under the ass of many people with SCOTUS rulings lately.
I don’t know where this goes, but it ain’t pretty so far.
Personally, I lean towards states rights in nearly every case when something like this comes up.
It’s a union of states, and Fed over reach is something to be concerned about, always.
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 24 2022 19:29 utc | 141
@ rjb1.5 | Jun 24 2022 18:08 utc | 127
I can’t make heads or tails out of your Finnegan’s Wake imitation, sorry, but as a Red State faggot married to a gook, I hope we’re lucky enough to be gone before the bullets start flying. YMMV.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:31 utc | 142
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 24 2022 18:10 utc | 128
I’ll believe humans are persons before being birthed when people, as a rule, react to miscarriages in the same way they react to Infant Sudden Death Syndrome.
Pro-tip: They don’t. Virtually nobody does.
Your creationist appeals may carry some weight with religious people, but that doesn’t make it legitimate to apply their conclusions to people who don’t make them their own.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 24 2022 19:36 utc | 143
If I can’t make babies myself
I am going to control those that can
joe tzu
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 24 2022 19:46 utc | 144
@ psychohistorian | Jun 24 2022 19:46 utc | 144
— no doubt with reference to the fact that Joe Biden only recently flip-flopped in favor of reproductive rights?
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:50 utc | 145
What if….bear with me here….
A baby in a womb, could be pregnant with a baby in ITS womb?
Kind of like a turducken. You know, a turkey stuffed with a chicken, stuffed with a duck.
(I apologize for the lack of exploding head sounds)
Posted by: Cadence Calls | Jun 24 2022 19:56 utc | 146
Any decision on terminating pregnancy made by a woman, often with her mate’s consent, is a major decision concerning her own body, probably made because she doesn’t want the burden of raising a child, a burden many women have been stuck with either willingly or not. The right to abortion is not a “constitutional right” but why should it be in a document (written by a few dozen white guys 200 years ago) establishing the government. This was a time when women weren’t allowed to vote.
History has shown that women may seek to take this action, if not with medical assistance, than without it. With rusty coathangers, say. This is often fatal.
Human rights are established upon birth. Every person has the basic human right to what may be done to his/her body.
Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men [assume “men” in the broadest sense]
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
US Constitution (establishing the government)
Congress shall make no law. . .[half a dozen human rights]
AMENDMENT IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 20:02 utc | 147
What if….bear with me here….
A baby in a womb, could be pregnant with a baby in ITS womb?
Kind of like a turducken. You know, a turkey stuffed with a chicken, stuffed with a duck.
(I apologize for the lack of exploding head sounds)
Posted by: Cadence Calls | Jun 24 2022 19:56 utc | 146
Well, that’s a few seconds of my life I’ll never have back.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 20:08 utc | 148
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 0:49 utc | 57
Wellll…it does happen to be a conspiracy theory that somehow Trump was “different” where the rubber met the road and that the election was “stolen” (in a manner far different from previous ones).
Actions often speak louder than words, but my impression of Trump was that his words on the campaign trail were sometimes followed up by “actions” like emphasizing the border wall (which I personally submitted several successful proposals on as a consultant in the A/E field…..in 2016). Hence, that program was already ramping up “bigly” under Obama. Same goes for deportations.
At the end of the day, though, Trump governed like a dyed in the wool establishment right wing Republican on steroids. Make Israel Great Again, for example.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:09 utc | 149
If only I could steal those seconds, and add them to MY life.
Now that would be a conspiracy theory I could get behind.
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 24 2022 20:14 utc | 150
To anyone who isn’t from the USA and isn’t that familiar with the venerated Constitution, it was written by and for the propertied (i.e., slaves or land) white male patriarchy. Period.
This abortion stuff is relatively new. For a long time Republicans and most Democrats alike were not concerned with it at all. Then a few splinter religious groups – and they were capital S SMALL – began pushing the issue.
Polling in the USA demonstrates my first sentence to be true on many issues. The Constitution is a flawed document and amending it in this environment is virtually impossible.
It’s no man who isn’t the father or husband’s business when a woman wants to use contraception or have an early term pregnancy aborted. When the 2nd amendment was written, “arms” meant muskets and bayonets – and – it was intimately intertwined with the notion of a well regulated militia.
As others have stated, this is more divide and conquer bullshit. The FIRE sector gods and nascent billionaire class are overjoyed at the plebes fighting over stuff like this; until – again as others have alluded – the massive arsenal owned by the American populace, including too many utter gun nuts (those who maintain personal arsenals, often with illegal weapons – I’m going to shoot a fully automatic AR in a few weeks with a friend who happens to be one of them – is turned against the government and the rich.
Oh and BTW, plenty of “liberals” and leftists own guns, including myself and the friend I mentioned. Most of us just don’t think we need 27 modern firearms or military grade (as in quality) weaponry.
To use Trump’s epithet, this IS a shithole country now if you’re not a jet-setting billionare with private security or a personal island OCONUS.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:25 utc | 152
P.S. on this abortion issue, nobody seems to be talking much about how at least three of the votes to strike down Roe v. Wade came from Republican SCOTUS nominees who basically lied to Congress about it during their confirmation hearings. All but one, I believe, said they believed the decision was “settled law.”
Sounds like perjury to me.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:34 utc | 153
P.S. on this abortion issue, nobody seems to be talking much about how at least three of the votes to strike down Roe v. Wade came from Republican SCOTUS nominees who basically lied to Congress about it during their confirmation hearings. All but one, I believe, said they believed the decision was “settled law.”
Sounds like perjury to me.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:34 utc | 153
They’re allowed to “evolve” their opinions, dontcha know. Just as Biden did on the abortion issue, or Obama did — twice — on the same-sex marriage issue. And anyway, what’s a little perjury among fellow members of the Club?
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 20:37 utc | 154
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 20:37 utc | 154
But of course. Lying to Congress has become a veritable badge of honor for our ‘betters’ – just ask James Clapper. And on the other side of the coin, those who tell the truth (and not allowed to speak to congress) are persecuted and tortured – just ask Julian Assange (who is NOT being punished for the Clinton email leaks, but rather the “Collateral Murder” trove). So long as one doesn’t embarrass empire or the patriarchy, one is all clear.
Not sure where he sourced the quote, but Ron Paul once said that in the empire of lies, truth is treason.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:43 utc | 155
At the end of the day, though, Trump governed like a dyed in the wool establishment right wing Republican on steroids. Make Israel Great Again, for example.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:09 utc | 149
Well, I’m not a Trump groupie but your Israel example is of course correct although he went further than many in supporting them.
Bannon had a list of election campaign promises and by the time he left in August of the first year a large number of them had been crossed. I don’t follow such things closely but I seem to recall:
Serious deregulation for first time in decades;
Tax cuts which stimulated small business sector;
trade deals, controversial but substantive;
increase of US manufacturing after 1st year;
SCOTUS appointments and hundreds of other Federal judges;
inner city development initiatives with proven community leaders;
Justice reforms esp for black street crime perps (?);
US-Mex-Can deal
Out of the TPP
Huge reduction in illegal immigration (immediately reversed by Dems);
and many more.
He was blocked legally and financially on the Wall for 2.5 years and once was legally able to proceed it went much faster and for far less than most prior projections but he didn’t finish it in time.
I don’t believe he had all that much influence on MIC / Intelligence controlled aspects, nor the entrenched Administrative State – indeed they were all trying to bury him in scandal and worse – so he was a lousy CEO of the USG but they didn’t give him a fair shake because they have no respect for the American voters.
So no deep changes but quite a few things were done and many had a definite effect. Few Presidents the past few decades can boast as much. Of course most of his initiatives were reversed as soon as the usurper was put on the throne in 2020. But not all; apparently the tariffs on China are still in place because they are negotiating about it now – I was very surprised to read that last week.
As to the election being stolen I guess some people see it and others don’t. For those who see it it’s a no-brainer; for those who don’t it’s a Big Lie. One thing for sure: NEVER had there been so many tens of millions of mail-in votes and never had so many challenges by so many been blocked from either full forensic audits or discovery in Court of Law so we’ll never know for sure. To my mind The Establishment clearly blocked Trump’s reelection and so they will ensure there will never be a full accounting. And now it’s too late anyway. Very few reforms to State election procedures have happened (unless they have and am ill-informed) so there is no reason to believe that it will go better this November. They really should get rid of the mail-in ballots given they don’t need signatures or addresses or anything in so many jurisdictions. Clearly the procedures have been put in place not because of covid but in order to facilitate election fraud. It is plain silly to deny it.
It’s a pity that Trump has such a flamboyant character that it all becomes about him. On the other hand, only a high octane character like that could have beaten the RINO’s in the election process – no small feat. It’s really about centrist Americans trying to get the country back to some sort of even keel even though so many refer to them as being ‘far right’ which is ridiculous. If the Press wasn’t biased and hell-bent on making endless inflammatory commentary most of the country would probably support most of what they want. But that’s not the way things are in America these days!
To the notion that the timing of the SCOTUS’s abortion ruling is somehow designed to benefit the Dims. Also consider that the timing also “rains down” on the January 6th hearings.
https://truthout.org/articles/brutal-supreme-court-rulings-rain-down-on-another-january-6-hearing/
That is, if we’re going to get all shallow conspiracy theory around here.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:49 utc | 157
The Supreme court has no business determining human rights. But the pro-abortion folks got themselves in a ditch referring to abortion as a “constitutional right” which of course it isn’t, and doesn’t have to be.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 20:49 utc | 158
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 20:46 utc | 156
Manufacturing in the US had been limply increasing since after the 2008 financial meltdown. I encourage everyone to review all of Trump’s claims about that and subject them to scrutiny.
RE: the alleged theft of the election AND in the manner in which it has been alleged, there has emerged literally zero substantive proof of the claims that don’t also point to meddling in favor of Trump. Keep in mind, Scorpion, Trump’s claims that the election was to be stolen from him in 2016 and the “millions” of “illegals” who supposedly voted for Clinton, but never materialized in numerous investigations including Trump’s own White House commision’s report HERE.
Frankly the subject is tiresome (“thumbdrive” == mint candy, etc.), and it’s not directed at you, but I don’t see the merit in discussing it here unless someone can come up with some proof.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:54 utc | 159
And an analysis of Trump’s commission on 2016 vote fraud can be found here:
https://www.propublica.org/article/election-commission-documents-cast-doubt-on-trumps-claims-of-voter-fraud
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:57 utc | 160
@ Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 20:49 utc | 158
For better or (imho) worse, the American Constitution isn’t about rights anyway. It’s about the proper constitution (definition of entities, division of powers) of government. The “Bill of Rights” was a last-minute sop to the states to get a sufficient number of them to ratify. The Founding Fathers weren’t all that interested in granting/acknowledging rights to anyone. They assumed, just as most of us do now, that rights are a function of money and power.
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 20:49 utc | 157
Yes, that would be a foolish assumption. An Opus Dei SCOTUS throwing red meat to pro-choice Dims in an election year? (Let’s overlook for the moment the fact that Dim commitment to abortion rights is, well, spotty at best.) I believe I’ve already articulated my (of course perfectly correct) interpretation of the matter here: the right to an abortion affects relatively few people RIGHT NOW (or, for that matter, 3 1/2 months from now), whereas the crappy economy affects EVERYONE RIGHT NOW (and there’s no reason to assume things will be better 3 1/2 months from now). People vote, first and foremost, their pocketbooks, and it’s always the folks in charge at the time of the crappy economy who get blamed for it. Consequently, abortion cannot and will not be a winning issue for the Dims.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 21:00 utc | 161
Consequently, abortion cannot and will not be a winning issue for the Dims.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 21:00 utc | 161
I don’t disagree with this. I’m merely trying to present a balanced view. The decision by all means has watered down public interest in the Jan. 6 hearings, which benefits the other side.
Again, though – if we’re going to tread into conspiracy theories (or whatever you wish to call them), there has to be prima facie evidence of some sort that the timing of this decision was somehow ‘engineered’ to assist the Democrats and not the product of a long crusade by the religious right and their enablers/followers to restrict a woman’s right to obtain safe and legal abortions.
https://truthout.org/articles/right-wing-dark-money-is-coming-for-reproductive-rights-in-your-state/
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 21:07 utc | 162
Not a huge Reagan fan, but there’s this:
“I’ve noticed that everyone who is for abortion,
Has already been born.”
Pithy and effective.
I wonder if he thought of that, or it was a writer.
I’ll add on a personal note, my biological mother was catholic.
She bore me out of wedlock, and my biological father did not desire my birth..
I was born and offered for adoption. Which happened.
If she chose to terminate my life, I wouldn’t be here.
Posted by: Cadence Calls | Jun 24 2022 21:11 utc | 163
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 21:07 utc | 162
D’accord. Although I might be tempted to go in the other direction: Would SCOTUS have issued such a ruling in a particular year if it thought that the backlash would benefit Dim electoral chances? Perhaps not. The Court’s political druthers have been mercilessly obvious since the Bush v. Gore ruling.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 21:12 utc | 164
I can’t find the link to donate to b anymore. Could someone please post it? Thanks in advance.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 21:12 utc | 165
I bet there’s someone here who will say that story
Is an argument for abortion.
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 24 2022 21:13 utc | 166
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 24 2022 21:13 utc | 166
LOL. Not I. However, what if your mother was forced to deliver you in a jail or if it was determined that you were not going to be born healthy, or that your mother could have died during delivery? Let’s just make it illegal and a criminal matter wherein complicated decisions are relegated to the trash bin, then, yes?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 21:15 utc | 167
Consequently, abortion cannot and will not be a winning issue for the Dims.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 21:00 utc | 161
I may be entirely wrong since don’t live in the country but get the feeling that the ‘woke’ business has gotten tired – it went too far for too long. The Johnny Depp trial was interesting in that in the chat rooms apparently most women lined up against Amber H which I suspect might not have happened a few years ago when ‘me-too’ was at its height. (I know this about Mexican and South American Latina women whom my wife follows on social media (!), so maybe this is a very different demographic…)
We shall see if the protests called for today by Obama (apparently) materialize on the level of the George Floyd (Soros-et-alia sponsored) riots nation wide. I doubt they will. People are sick of the endless outrage and as you rightly point out, pocket book issues loom larger right now as not just recession but full-blown depression looms. People can feel it.
It’s like Ukraine: the story at the beginning trumpeted so oft and loudly is gradually becoming untenable so slowly the narrative is shifting. I think the faux outrage is similarly becoming untenable as the national narrative is steadily shifting. How else can one explain Biden’s historically low polling numbers? He has extremely favorable press but it seemingly doesn’t fool hardly anyone. Why is that? Because like the woke whining and the Ukraine Grandstanding it’s not resonating any more. Too many people realize that they are living in the Empire of Lies even if they haven’t yet heard that devastating Information War kill shot…
@ Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 21:22 utc | 168
Reproductive rights, as an issue, predated the “woke” wave by several decades; in fact, it peaked a few decades ago. So I think it a bit unfair to lump it in with such issues as, say, whether a pre-op M-to-F transsexual gets to choose which restroom to use, or whether “the woman is always right” (provided she isn’t accusing Joe Biden or Bill Clinton). That much said, it’s quite possible that God-Fearing America will lump it in with them anyway. Otherwise I think there’s a lot to your analysis.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 21:31 utc | 169
Also not being discussed nearly enough is how overturning Roe v. Wade is merely the first step toward a Christo-fascist surveillance state.
https://twitter.com/tlecaque/status/1539462357880934400
Just read some of the draft legislation they’re about to start introducing.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 21:50 utc | 170
from oilprice
Germany Risks Industrial Crash With Gas Shortage
Germany is facing an industrial crisis with many companies likely to end on the chopping block if Russian gas deliveries remain as low as they are now, Economy Minister Robert Habeck said today in an interview for Der Spiegel, as quoted by Reuters.
“Companies would have to stop production, lay off their workers, supply chains would collapse, people would go into debt to pay their heating bills, that people would become poorer,” Habeck said, blaming it all on Russia’s President, who, according to the German minister, wanted to “undermine our liberal democracy from within.”
Russia has reduced flows along the Nord Stream 1 pipeline by some 60 percent, citing the delayed delivery of a turbine that was repaired in Canada. The reason for the delay was fresh Canadian sanctions.
Earlier this week, Canada’s Natural Resources Minister Jonathan Wilkinson acknowledged the problem but did not offer a solution, signaling that Canada had no intention of returning the turbine. . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 21:52 utc | 171
Shitlibs love to deride Russia for being racist, sexist, and homophobic, but mark my words: Within a decade Russia will have more liberal laws on all such matters than the USA will have.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 22:21 utc | 172
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 24 2022 14:52 utc | 96
Huh? String theory was conceived of to “evade” testing? That’s a new one on me.
In other news for the O/T, looks like another country has a Nazi/fascist problem. Namely, Colombia. Not good news for the new President.
https://orinocotribune.com/despite-the-lefts-victories-warning-signs-of-a-fascist-backlash-appear-in-colombia-beyond/
What anti-imperialists need to know about Colombia’s military is that it doesn’t just have latent reactionary sympathies, as Latin American militaries have so often had. It’s an entity which is directly led by neo-Nazis. Swastika-displaying Hitlerites guided the armed forces on how to suppress last year’s protests, designing the strategy behind the country’s world-shocking state violence against anti-austerity demonstrators.
This blatantly fascist leading ideology within the military is guided by the concept of the “dissipated molecular revolution,” which calls for treating the general population as enemy combatants so that a future revolution can be preemptively destroyed on a molecular level. This kind of thinking is what’s justified the shooting at civilians from helicopters, the use of paramilitaries to routinely kill off hundreds of political dissidents with no accountability, and the other atrocities Colombia has recently committed against its own people. If given the opportunity, these Nazis within the military will assassinate Petro and his Afro-Colombian vice president, then impose the kind of dictatorship that so many Latin American countries have seen. Colombia’s fascist armed service and law enforcement members hail from the strain of state terror which has defined the country for many decades, and which has carried out a political genocide that’s arguably still ongoing. The fascist paramilitaries are still there, and are still disappearing journalists and human rights activists regularly.
With Petro having a plan to disarm the left, but no plan to disarm the right-wing extremists in control of the military, disaster could easily strike. And even if no coup happens, when a new fascist gets back into office, the left will find itself without arms to defend from the inevitable reactionary terror.
Just another example of the US/Uncle Skam supporting nazis.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 22:22 utc | 173
Don Bacon @158–
Yes, that’s a correct observation but advocates for women’s rights weren’t getting satisfaction via state courts and thus opted to ape the Civil Rights Movement and work to have the Feds ordain women equal rights, including the right to manage their own body. Some of that was afoot during the Depression then gained traction during WW2 and its announced end-goal–The Four Freedoms. Then in 1949, the controversy was unintentionally launched by the publication of The Second Sex, which was rapidly translated and debated by many different schools of thought of every imaginable sort. Unfortunately, the initial English translation was deemed “as having a college undergraduate’s knowledge of French,” and was only updated with a much better translation in 2009, 60 years later! IMO, de Beauvoir’s book demands a very close reading; but as with so many mind provoking works, it is treated as if it didn’t exist. The dominating Puritan Ethos within the rising Outlaw US Empire at first didn’t want such discussions to occur whatsoever. Then at some point during the Mccarthy Era, someone came up with the idea of contriving what we now call Culture Wars to keep the populous at war with themselves instead of attacking the Power Elite then consolidating their control of the nation. And in reality, the situation remains essentially frozen as no solution is allowed in order to keep that aspect of the Culture Wars alive and active. And in a nation whose rulers deem no social support can be allowed for any but the most wealthy, the demographic decline will continue, which is one of the major reasons why immigration’s encouraged by the wealthy in control.
Archaic Nazi-Era German Abortion Law Finally Scrapped
It’s “a good day for women,” said Germany’s Minister for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women, and Youth.
Germany has scrapped an archaic Nazi-era law that criminalizes doctors who provide information about abortion.
The law, section 219a of the Criminal Code, was introduced in 1933 shortly after Adolf Hitler took power in Germany. It prohibits the “advertising for the termination of pregnancy” under the penalty of a fine or imprisonment of up to two years, but has since been used to stop doctors from providing information about abortions to patients.
On Friday, June 24, Germany’s Bundestag decided to repeal section 219a and end strict prohibitions on advertising for abortions, a move that will make it easier to find safe medical care for an abortion. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 22:33 utc | 175
“And to the woman He said, “I will greatly increase your pregnancy pains and inconveniences; with pain you shall bear children, yet to your husband shall be your desire and he shall dominate you.”–Genesis 3.16
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 22:37 utc | 176
@ Tom_Q_Collins re Colombia:
I was tempted tonpost something like the following at the WSWS site, but I know they wouldn’t allow it:
I sympathize with Petro; if he doesn’t sacrifice at least 98% of his agenda, he’s literally a dead man. So the question of his sincerity is entirely academic. The only thing that can save Colombia is massive armed intervention/liberation from the outside—and Venezuela is just barely in a position to defend itself against Colombian death squads, let alone liberate Colombia.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 22:37 utc | 177
Could you kindly provide a link to a good model? I stopped following climate issue a long time ago partly because all the models were useless and yet were the main arguments trotted out again and again.
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 11:31 utc | 71
GCM models are complex 3D models written in FORTRAN and then compiled. Due the sheer size and complexity of the variables even with fast super computers the run times can be extensive. Each country has there own written version . No two models are alike. Even IPCC has their very on climate GCM model.
There is a common misconception that GCM’s are similar to the average fourteen day weather forecast. This is false argument, designed to confuse and befuddle the user. Weather is not climate nor is a sliced/diced 15 tear subsection either.
The GCM models are purely used for future tracking trend analysis . If one claims they produce garbage out. That is one lie by omission. All GCM models must pass validation tests…… NASA has one for the Planet MARS on github. Actual real weather measurements for Mars are severely limited……………….
For home computers a standard compatible FORTRAN Compiler is required.
For climate change resources a web site run by John Cook Skeptical Sciences Getting Skeptical About Global Warming Skepticism . This site lists and rebuts/debunks approximately 217 arguments often used to confuse the listener.
Naomi Oreskes book The Merchants of Doubt is a good resource. Her one hour plus lecture on the same subject dating back to 2010 is also on youtub.
Also on youtub is a song by Joeyess written in 2009 . The title is : The Dirty F……. Hippies Were Right. The polar icecaps are melting at an alarming rate….
One final note there exists a Washington DC think tank called Heartland Institute . The only product this think tank sells is doubt………………….
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 24 2022 22:40 utc | 178
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 22:37 utc | 176
LOL. Also don’t forget – the plan is to outlaw birth CONTROL as well. But only for wimminz. So I’ve just bought some stock in Trojan Brands.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 22:37 utc | 177
I would have agreed with that. While he’s not far left by any stretch of the imagination (think: Chavista), he’s unpalatable enough for the entrenched, Empire-backed Nazis and fascist big business interests (see: Phizer, who planned and maybe held a banquet for his opponent) to ensure his life is in danger, even if he abandons 50% of his agenda. Don’t for a second think that Uncle Skkkam won’t be involved, either, despite ALLEGED discouragement from the CIA.
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/06/19/pfizer-miami-yacht-colombia-presidential-rodolfo-hernandez/
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 22:50 utc | 179
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 22:50 utc | 179
And by “think: Chavista” I meant that Petro is not one. Can you imagine how quickly he’ll be dispatched if he follows through on some of his plans for the oil industry?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 22:52 utc | 180
Actually, I’m continually amazed that people like AMLO, Morales, and Lula have been allowed to live at all, and would like to know more about the dynamics behind the scenes that have ensured their survival so far. It can’t be just CIA incompetence.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 22:58 utc | 181
Back to the topic of abortion.
https://reason.com/2022/06/24/alitos-abortion-ruling-overturning-roe-is-an-insult-to-the-9th-amendment/
At the heart of Justice Samuel Alito’s opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, which overturns Roe v. Wade (1973) and eliminates the constitutional right to abortion, is Alito’s objection that “the Constitution makes no mention of abortion.” For Alito and the many legal conservatives who think like him, unenumerated constitutional rights are inherently suspect. When a court recognizes an unenumerated right, these conservatives say, that court is almost certainly guilty of judicial activism.
But this conservative mindset is at odds with constitutional text and history, both of which make clear that unenumerated rights are entitled to the same respect as the small handful of rights that the Constitution specifically lists.
Remember that when the Constitution was first ratified, it did not yet contain its famous first 10 amendments, otherwise known as the Bill of Rights. Those amendments arrived a few years later. They were added in response to the fierce criticism leveled against the Constitution by the Anti-Federalists, who opposed ratification on several grounds, one of which was that the document lacked a bill of rights, and therefore, in their view, left a number of key rights unprotected (because unmentioned).
The Federalists, who labored on behalf of the Constitution’s ratification, rejected this argument. Why? Because, explained James Wilson, one of the leading figures at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention, “if we attempt an enumeration, everything that is not enumerated is presumed to be given.” And the consequence of that, Wilson told the Pennsylvania Ratification Convention, “is, that an imperfect enumeration would throw all implied power into the scale of the government; and the rights of the people would be rendered incomplete.”
James Iredell, a future justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, made the same argument at the North Carolina Ratification Convention. “It would not only be useless, but dangerous, to enumerate a number of rights which are not intended to be given up,” he said. That is “because it would be implying, in the strongest manner, that every right not included in the exception might be impaired by the government without usurpation.” Furthermore, Iredell added, “it would be impossible to enumerate every one. Let anyone make what collection or enumeration of rights he pleases, I will immediately mention twenty or thirty more rights not contained in it.”
James Madison, one of the principal architects of the new Constitution, closely followed this debate. On June 8, 1789, he gave a speech to Congress proposing the group of amendments that would ultimately become the Bill of Rights. While doing so, he directly addressed the Anti-Federalist/Federalist debate. “It has been observed also against a bill of rights, that, by enumerating particular exceptions to the grant of power, it would disparage those rights which were not placed in that enumeration,” he said, “and it might follow by implication, that those rights which were not singled out, were intended to be assigned into the hands of the general government, and were consequently insecure.” Madison acknowledged that “this is one of the most plausible arguments I have ever heard urged against the admission of a bill of rights into this system; But, I conceive, that may be guarded against. I have attempted it.”
Madison’s attempt became enshrined in the Constitution as the Ninth Amendment. Here is what it says: “The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” In short, unenumerated rights get the same respect as enumerated ones. [article continues…]
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 23:00 utc | 182
It’s the dick-stickers versus the child-raisers–
There is no legal age requirement for getting your tubes tied in the United States. There may, however, be restrictions on who will pay for the procedure, especially if you’re on Medicaid or have health insurance through another federally funded program. There are also variations about consent in state law.
There’s no legal requirement for spousal consent and no minimum age for vasectomy other than the minimum age of consent.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 23:02 utc | 183
@ Don Bacon re Germany:
I always found it amusing how the DDR did a better job of cleansing the German Strafgesetzbuch (Criminal Code) of its Nazi accretions than the BRD did.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 23:02 utc | 184
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 23:02 utc | 183
Just saw a Texas cop down at Target harassing a woman who was purchasing coat hangers.
Don’t worry though, now if you want them to promptly respond to a distress call or mass shooter report, just mention that there’s a woman present who’s considering an abortion or birth control. I’m sure all the griping and lies about “defund” will suddenly fall by the wayside.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 23:09 utc | 185
Get ready for the sex surveillance police.
https://reason.com/2022/06/24/get-ready-for-the-post-roe-sex-police/
Just what we needed! More reasons for our ‘betters’ to exploit surveillance laws and seek to enact new ones!
[includes a pretty good history of abortion/abortion rights in ‘the west’]
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 23:14 utc | 186
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 11:31 utc | 71
Back in the day long before Intel had created the old 4004 as a base for use in a calculator. Or even the the original flashing light show (real incandescent globes)PDP8/11 . The Apollo Space program had yet to land on the moon. Via live global TV . I can understand, even now. Why the NASA Astronauts would punch any fool in the face. Should ignorant clowns fallacious claims of denial . Berate and insult them at a hotel foyer. Saying it was a fake Hollywood studio job. Some things never change with the merchants of doubt……….
The only access to use any university owned computer running FORTRAN IV. Was by punch cards. The bigger the program . The larger the pile of punch cards. Sadly one day one genius student walked over one card in golf shoes. This by pure chance allowed the university EDP dept. To find an elusive bug in the machines compiler code . One they had spent fruitless months chasing down. Such were the bad old days when the crazy Asian war was in full swing. And scum serial liars like Donald Trump used fake medical grounds to evade the draft (unforgivable sinner )……………..
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 24 2022 23:15 utc | 187
Dangerous waters.
NATO Is Becoming a Pacific Military Force
“…2022 RIMPAC includes military forces from Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Peru, the Republic of Korea, the Republic of the Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Tonga, the United Kingdom and the United States”.
I am disgusted to see the military from my country rubbing shoulders with IDF war criminals and occupiers who blatantly and routinely disregard the Geneva Conventions, UNSC resolutions and international law. . The leaders of all these countries, particularly Muslim countries, should choose their company more selectively. Cancel RIMPAC.
https://johnmenadue.com/ann-wright-largest-never-us-naval-war-drills-in-pacific-a-threat-to-both-peace-and-marine-life/
https://diy.rootsaction.org/petitions/cancel-largest-naval-war-maneuvers-dangerous-rimpac-2022
Bonus, here is some context:
The United States- the Pacific bully
https://johnmenadue.com/the-united-states-the-pacific-bully/
Posted by: Paul | Jun 24 2022 23:31 utc | 188
I can’t find the link to donate to b anymore. Could someone please post it? Thanks in advance.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 24 2022 21:12 utc | 165
I also didn’t find the link, but the “About this site” page gives an email address for b, in case you haven’t tried it.
Posted by: David Levin | Jun 24 2022 23:54 utc | 189
Tom Q, you are going off the deep end here.
The decision relegates abortion to the individual states.
And NOTHING prevents a woman from traveling to another state
to have an abortion.
Get a grip
Posted by: Cadence Calls | Jun 25 2022 0:12 utc | 190
“…But I will take the good (making abortion illegal, once and for all), discard the bad, and go on living a Christian life. Your country can do whatever the hell it wants but will face itself as its harm comes back to it sooner or later…” NemesisCalling@122
I’m not going to argue from authority but my knowledge of the United States and its history is enough to teach me that the Supreme Court has not made, and cannot make, abortions illegal.
It is perfectly within the powers of both Federal and State legislatures to make laws on the subject of women choosing, or for that matter being forced to have, abortions.
What the Court has ruled, I believe and I have not read the judgement, is that Texas and other states have a constitutional right to pass laws restricting the rights of women in the matter of abortion, as in the matter of suicide.
It seems to me that this is a matter for Texans to decide. And that, if the people of the United States in Congress wish to make federal laws on the subject they should be at liberty to do so.
The problem with this ruling is that the Court making it has very little credibility as a body dispensing or upholding justice, it is a sordid political aggregation which represents the positions- Culture wars?- which the corporate oligarchy finds are most favourable to its maintaining power.
It goes without saying that the laws applied to working class women in Texas and elsewhere will have no application whatever to the ruling class’s members who live in a charmed circle in which money purchases every privilege not least of which will be the right to visit clinics abroad where the finest medical assistance will be available for pregnancy termination.
What the Justices are telling us is that it will be of benefit to the capitalist class if individual rights to abortion are removed and the control of abortions left in the hands of authority.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 25 2022 0:18 utc | 191
And the weirdos questioning the possibility of birth control laws, and miscegenation laws
are also off the planet, IMO
Extrapolating to the extremes is not an argument, imo.
The US is a federation. States have powers not enumerated in the Constitution.
It’s that simple.
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 25 2022 0:21 utc | 192
I’m not going to argue from authority but my knowledge of the United States and its history is enough to teach me that the Supreme Court has not made, and cannot make, abortions illegal. [snip]
Posted by: bevin | Jun 25 2022 0:18 utc | 190
No, unfortunately. It is within the powers of SCOTUS to declare that life begins at conception; that the fetus is entitled to all protections afforded persons as defined by law, and to mandate that states create appropriate legislation to that end.
It’s only because of SCOTUS’s “salami slice” tactic that we haven’t reached that point yet.
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 25 2022 0:21 utc | 193
Posted by: Cadence Calls | Jun 25 2022 0:12 utc | 189
“nothing prevents a woman from traveling to another state”
Is all I need to see in order to conclude you’re entirely divorced from reality for about 90% of American women in states where abortion is illegal.
Most women seeking abortions – or most who will be charged under such laws – are poor. Also in most states such as Texas (or other smaller ones) there are few options in terms of other states to which to travel. How about younger women without cars or well-off relatives?
Nay, this is a serious curtailment of a woman’s ability to choose and/or seek legal and safe abortions. And as with most American laws it disproportionately discriminates against poor (and likely Black and Latina) women who have fewer means to do so.
And then what about the concurrent push to outlaw contraception (except rubbers and vasectomies) and the high cost of medical care in the US? I don’t care what you’ve read, states like Texas will in fact attempt to surveil and punish women and those who enable them who try to travel for abortions.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 25 2022 0:25 utc | 194
@190 bevin
I already told you how it is going to play out. Why do you keep questioning me about it?
Once an individual state levels charges against an individual for terminating a pregnancy willfully (either their self or with the help of a physician who will also be charged with murder), this case will have to go to the Supreme Court where they will have to rule on the constitutional right to life of that individual human.
Once the court establishes that right as human, ipso facto, all the unborn are granted personhood and it will by extension be illegal then under the constitution to have an abortion.
This is going to happen. So stop pestering me about it.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 25 2022 0:26 utc | 195
Posted by: David Levin | Jun 24 2022 23:54 utc | 188
Thanks David. Stupid me, all I had to do was Google one of b’s most recent fund drives.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/06/please-support-moon-of-alabama.html
Phew…don’t have to use PayPal and can use credit/debit card. I encourage everyone with the means to donate.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 25 2022 0:30 utc | 196
And the weirdos questioning the possibility of birth control laws, and miscegenation laws
are also off the planet, IMO
Extrapolating to the extremes is not an argument, imo.
The US is a federation. States have powers not enumerated in the Constitution.
It’s that simple.
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 25 2022 0:21 utc | 191
Indeed, using the logic of this court ruling, states can pass restrictive birth control laws, anti-miscegenation laws, anti-sodomy laws, you name it. So far so good, eh? The fun and games start when state lines are crossed. Can Texas prosecute a Texas girl who goes to Colorado for an abortion? If Colorado governor Jared Polis travels to Texas with his same-sex spouse and needs to be hospitalized in Houston, does the spouse have visitation rights?
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 25 2022 0:31 utc | 197
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 25 2022 0:26 utc | 194
Do you REALLY think it’s that simple or that the SCOTUS would deign to issue a decision on the scientific and sociological issue of when life “begins”?
Please expound on a hypothetical scenario where this happens from the type of case through to the SCOTUS ruling – at least inasmuch as what it would look like regardless of the decision.
I think you’re being a bit naive. And historical precedent supports the notion of “quickening” which is when the fetus is noticeably moving inside the womb. And that’s WELL after what most of these states are going to claim.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 25 2022 0:32 utc | 198
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 25 2022 0:26 utc | 194
You’re also leaving out a lot of other important and frequent situations such as the woman not WILLFULLY ending a fetus’s “life” but instead accidentally “killing” it by not knowing she’s pregnant (too early to tell without a test for ex.) and using alcohol or another drug – or even engaging in ‘risky’ activities like accidentally falling down the stairs. There are plenty of cases of this happening already in states like MS and OK.
https://www.aclumaine.org/en/news/iowa-police-almost-prosecute-woman-her-accidental-fall-during-pregnancyseriously
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 25 2022 0:36 utc | 199
Posted by: Cadence calls | Jun 25 2022 0:21 utc | 191
LOL, and individuals DON’T have rights not enumerated? See: the Ninth Amendment to the Constitution and the Reason.com article I linked above.
You think it’s extrapolating to the extremes to cite actual cases where contraception is being criminalized?
Some conservative lawmakers wasted no time signaling they were looking into restricting or banning certain types of emergency contraception, such as Plan B and other morning-after pills that can be used within 72 hours of intercourse to prevent pregnancy.
A leading Republican state legislator in Idaho suggested last week that he would be open to holding hearings on banning emergency birth control, and Sen. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., recently denounced Griswold v. Connecticut, the 1965 case that expanded access to contraception to unmarried people.
In Louisiana, legislation would classify abortion as a homicide and define “personhood” as beginning from the moment of fertilization. Contraception methods like Plan B and certain types of intrauterine devices, or IUDs, could be restricted under the bill, said Cathren Cohen, a scholar of law and policy at the UCLA Law Center.
“Anything that would prevent a fertilized egg from turning into a pregnancy and being born into a baby could be considered a homicide,” she said. “If you define a pregnancy and you define a person as including just this fertilized egg, then technically you are legislating that an IUD can cause an abortion.”
Methinks it’s you who’s ‘off the planet’ and intentionally ignorant of what’s been going on w/r/t abortion and contraception for the past 5 decades.
https://19thnews.org/2022/05/restrictions-birth-control-iuds-plan-b/
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 25 2022 0:41 utc | 200