Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 24, 2022
Ukraine SitRep – Zolote Cauldron Closes – Lysichansk Blocked (Corrected twice)

[Corrected (twice) below]

In the last situation report about the war in Ukraine I discussed the situation near Lysichansk.

The Ukrainian leadership is still sending new units into the Lysichansk cauldron in the east. The Russians do not mind that. Their job is to "demilitarize" Ukraine. To enclose more troops in one swoop makes that easier.


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The distance between the red Russian held area at the the top to the one at the bottom at the most narrow gap is a mere 15 kilometer or some 9 miles. There is only one open road running through it from west to east which is used for pushing resupplies to the Ukrainian troops in Lysichansk.

The map has since changed significantly:


Jun 16

Source: LiveUAmapbigger

What developed was first a smaller cauldron around Zolote at the bottom of the map.

Jun 18

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This was a classic move done by the book.

Jun 20

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Then a battalion of Ukrainian troops that was supposed to hold the villages in the upper area of the pocket retreated. Some say they were ordered to leave, others claim they mutinited. The later is more likely as these were amateur infantry from the Territorial Defense Forces who, without sufficient support, had been send to replace better troops that were ordered back.

Jun 22

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The Russians on the eastern wing moved west to take 5 villages in one day along the pocket's northern border.

Jun 24

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That put the lid onto the cauldron which immediately began to cook the estimated 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers who were inside.

The above maps are quite rough. A more detailed one from the Russian side shows that several towns within the Zolote cauldron have not yet been cleared.

Jun 24

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In today's report the Russian Defense Ministry claims:

Successful offensive of Russian units towards Lugansk within 5 days has resulted in the liberation of Loskutovka, Podlesnoye, Mirnaya Dolina, Shchebkaryer, Vrubovka, Nyrkovo, Nikiolayevka, Novoivanovka, Ustinovka and Ray-Aleksandrovka.

Group of Ukrainian units has been completely isolated near Gorskoye and Zolotoye.

This pocket has encircled four battalions: 3rd Mechanised Battalion of 24th Mechanised Brigade, 15th Mountain Assault Battalion of 128th Mountain Assault Brigade, 42nd Mechanised Infantry Battalion of 57th Mechanised Infantry Brigade, 70th Battalion of 101st Territorial Defence Brigade, as well as an artillery group of 57th Mechanised Infantry Brigade, a group of Nazis from Right Sector organisation and a detachment of foreign mercenaries.

In total, the Gorskoye pocket has isolated up to 2 thousand people: about 1,800 servicemen, 120 Nazis from Right Sector, up to 80 foreign mercenaries, as well as over 40 armoured combat vehicles and about 80 guns and mortars.

41 servicemen abandoned their resistance and surrendered voluntarily just over the past 24 hours.

According to the prisoners, the encircled Ukrainian units are exhausted. The units are currently manned by less than 40%. Higher Ukrainian command has lost control over these units. Armament, munitions, fuel and other logistic supply is completely stopped.

Russian troops are straitening the Gorskoye encirclement by launching uninterrupted attacks at the enemy. Half of Zolotoye had been taken under control over yesterday.

Since this morning some 600 have additionally surrendered. The others will likely follow later today or tomorrow.

Also this morning the Ukrainian deputy commander for Luhansk province announced that the soldiers and foreign mercenaries who held out in the industrial area of Sevierodonetzk east of Lysichansk were told to retreat to Lysichansk. In fact a full retreat from Lysichansk further west seemed to be likely.

But that was no longer really possible for the 10-15,000 soldiers in and around the city as a bridge on the single road that leads to the west has been dropped overnight onto the railway tracks below.

Correction (19:00 utc) This sections was wrong and has been corrected. A bridge was bombed to cut the escape route from Lysichansk but it was a different one than I first wrote. That does not change the conclusion

Bridge marked in red – This map is of a different bridge.

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This map is of the bridge that was actually destroyed. It is at the north-west of the Lysichansk refinery I discussed in the previous situation report.

Bridge marked in red

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A Russian helicopter performed that mission and it now seems that there was a bigger landing of airborne troops west of the refinery.

Here is how the bridge is now said to be looking. Correction (17:30 utc): The picture does not show the bridge on the map.

Correction (19:00 utc) The picture is of the destroyed bridge but it was geo-located wrongly. But that the bridge on the map is now damaged was reported by a source that is usually correct. I still assume that it is in fact so. Again the map was wrong, not the picture of the bridge.

Sorry for this 'fog of war' confusion. The tactical effects of the incident mentioned below stays the same. [end of both corrections]


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There are still side roads and dirt tracks that can be used but the whole area west of Luhansk is under Russian fire control. The long convoy that would be needed for a retreat can not pass without being severely molested.

The big Lysichansk cauldron has thereby also been closed. Despite the still necessary cleanup of the city and two or three small villages one can state that the former Ukrainian province Luhansk, now the Luhansk People's Republic, has been liberated from Ukraine. 

On the Russian side some 30-40 Battalion Tactical Groups (BTG) have been involved in the whole operation. Most of them can now resupply and rest to later be used elsewhere.

Comments

malenkov@95
You are right. In “Ukraine” it is likely, as I suggested earlier (you appeared to disagree), that 80% or more of the population, given the proper conditions for a referendum, will vote to rejoin Russia.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 24 2022 20:21 utc | 99

I don’t believe I ever articulated an opinion as to how “Ukraine” would vote, and if I did so in a particularly inebriated moment, I apologize. Precisely because I believe in popular self-determination, I hold all states to be artificial entities, and certainly I shouldn’t expect Galicians to vote the same way as Rusyns, to say nothing of Novorossiyans. Nor would I want such diverse and mutually antagonistic groups lumped into the same plebiscite.
The problem extends, of course, to other Central and Eastern European states. In the early 1990s my ethnically Hungarian friends were fearing pogroms of their fellow nationals in Romania, and not without reason. My feelings about Stalin are, to put it mildly, highly mixed, but the expulsion of ethnic Germans from his Czechoslovakian and Polish satellite states may well prove to have been the kindest thing he could have done for them.
One of the great and no doubt forever to be unsung accomplishments of modern Russia is the degree of peacefulness with which it has managed its ethnic diversity. For a while things were looking pretty dicey, don’t you know — scores of ethnic Russians murdered on the streets of Kyzyl, for instance, and we hardly need mention Chechnya.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 20:33 utc | 101

Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 20:02 utc | 94
“With some 3.5 million German and nearly 700,000 German-allied troops (Romanians, Finns, Hungarians, Italians, Slovaks, and others) facing off against a Red Army that numbered some 5.5 million men, the opening phase of Barbarossa saw nearly 10 million human beings locked in mortal combat from the outset.”
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/operation-barbarossa
Off memory, 100,000 Latvians joined the waffen SS. Fascim was relatively big throughout Europe in the prewar years. A mob of Croatians here in Australia celebrate the day Nazi Germany overran their country as independence day and similar for a number of other European ethnic groups. The was plenty of volunteers from all over German occupied Europe more than happy to fight for Nazi Germany.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 24 2022 20:36 utc | 102

i really don’t understand russian benevolence towards the eu? it’s part of the same devious plan, in essence, the eu is a waiting room for nato, or even better, it’s the same organization all along…in fact, this war started with the eu insatiable appetite for enlargement which is neo-colonial project in practice. candidacy of moldova and ukraine are living proof of that…it’s all about nato ( read usa ) and both (nato and the eu) are working in sync…

Posted by: denazi | Jun 24 2022 20:37 utc | 103

from Lavrov, 84
acquiring an aggressive ideological background, primarily Russophobic
The EU learned that from the US. Picking countries to be enemies is an essential duty of the US security state. Russia, China, North Korea, & Iran top the list. Doesn’t have to be logical, just do it if you want that $800 billion Pentagon budget with 800 foreign bases and worldwide “combatant commands” sustained. Especially North Korea as an enduring enemy. That US air base in South Korea one air-hour from Beijing is sweet. Forget unification and peace. Trump made a start on changing things, but that didn’t last (of course). That’s what made Nixon’s trip to China so momentous — he got it backwards!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 20:39 utc | 104

An enlightening conversation with a leading member of the Russian Communist Party.
https://theanalysis.news/putins-war-driven-by-domestic-politics-boris-kagarlitsky/?cmid=e30305eb-7b83-421f-ba85-3a8d0c12c664

Posted by: Wobblie | Jun 24 2022 20:40 utc | 105

“EU apparat, which is a colony of the Outlaw US Empire”
The EU is not a country. It’s not even a territory. The EU’s 27 sovereign nations allied with a trade agreement which is not even enforceable by the Consillium.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 20:42 utc | 106

Some wise words spoken a long time ago,
Tao Te Tsing,
Even the most elegant weapons
are instruments of doom.
They are loathsome.
So followers of the Tao
don’t abide them.
At peace, a man of honor
emphasizes graciousness.
At war, he emphasizes
power and might.
Weapons are tools of evil,
not good instruments.
They should only be used
as a last resort, in
extreme situations.
Don’t fetishize weapons.
There’s nothing to celebrate
in the taking of a life.
Those who do, glorify killing.
Those who glorify killing
will ultimately fail in their
attempts at domination.
At times of peace, there is celebration.
At times of war, there is mourning.
Approach war like a funeral,
not a celebration.
When there are many casualties,
mourn the bodies of allies
and enemies alike.
Even in moments of triumph,
treat it like a funeral.

Posted by: Kle | Jun 24 2022 20:43 utc | 107

A little story.
Some folks are talking in the kitchen one evening, discussing plans for harvest and planting – the business of life. One cocks their head and listens… “Say is that wolves howling and yammering out there?” “Could be” says another, but pay it no mind. We have the means to deal with wolves should they come to visit.” “But don’t they cause losses to your herds? Threaten your children?” the questioner asks. “Oh, well they often did, and still do sometimes, but we have learned how to manage them so calm yourself.”
The conversation goes on until again the questioner puts a hand to their ear. The other asks if there is something the matter. “Well, I heard the yammering again, or thought I did, but now I think it must be just a wild dog or a coyote.” comes the answer, and the discussion continues.
Eventually the guests get up to leave and the host opens the door and a yipping and barking can be heard. “No worries” the host says to the guest afraid of wolves “One of the neighbors keeps some poodles and sometimes they get to yipping and carrying on – that must be what you were hearing. Safe travels and sleep well!”
A little story from the BRICs summit it seems.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 24 2022 20:53 utc | 108

The EU is not a country. It’s not even a territory. The EU’s 27 sovereign nations allied with a trade agreement which is not even enforceable by the Consillium.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 20:42 utc | 106
You need to tell that to the bureaucrats in Brussels.

Posted by: Emily Dickinson | Jun 24 2022 21:10 utc | 109

bevin @85–
Thanks for your reply and gracious assessment! I see your contributions in a similar vein.
Sunny Runny Burger @94–
Thanks for your reply and excellent observation/question. Seldom do I check Microsoft Edge’s machine translation with others, Yandex for example. I’d like to check it against an official English transcript made by MFA but they’re seldom supplied for all the events listed on the Russian MFA page. I just used Yandex to translate that entire paragraph and it was almost the same, including the use of gathered; however, I do agree with your point as it was more of an assemblage–a term Lavrov also uses–akin to the Outlaw US Empire’s “coalition of the willing” prior to its genocidal attack on Iraq. Since all the EU/NATO nations in question are now officially considered colonies by ourselves and Russia, we can also state with a high degree of certainty that they have no say in the project or its direction.
Yesterday, Martyanov linked to this short blog note by Larry Johnson about the ignorance of WW2 History by those living in the Outlaw US Empire and elsewhere in the four English speaking colonies, which prompted me to write a comment that linked back to my essay in February about the actual aims of WW2 that all the allied nations signed onto attaining, “Back to the Future: China & Russia Vow to Fulfill WW2’s Victory Goals & Reinvigorate the Architecture to Achieve Them”. That essay has its background in one of the first I wrote and published at VK, “Revisiting Henry Wallace’s Century of The Common Man”. The point I made in my comment was that few know any of all that as it’s been very skillfully swept under the rug, just as carefully as political-economy was removed from study by all major US universities by the beginning of the 1920s so what was to become Neoliberalism couldn’t be easily refuted.
We have one very large group of people living in Eurasia who are very well educated in history and are thus very active politically, while another not anywhere near as large a group of people who are essentially ignorant of their history and thus are very inactive politically. I’ll advance the argument by positing the former group are sovereign while the latter are merely subjects within an Oligarchical Empire that aims to keep them in that state or worse.
Thus, we have Ukrainians who’ve been indoctrinated into thinking they’re fighting for their freedom when in reality they’re fighting to confirm their slavery. And the same argument can be extended to include all those living under the Neoliberal Fascist Hegemony of the Outlaw US Empire. The latter’s goals are described by Lavrov as Megalomaniac just as Hitler’s. The only difference lies in the differing political-economies as Hudson has documented so well.
Opport Knocks @98–
I wouldn’t trust Bloomberg News as a credible source on any geopolitical matter. The Outlaw US Empire’s aim is to destroy Germany’s industrial capability and make it and the EU geoeconomically dependent. And with its agent Sgt. Scholtz as Chancellor, it will likely attain its goal. The Neoliberal Parasites don’t care one whit about any nation’s real economy as their goal is to strip the wealth from all nations and enslave them via debt peonage. The game is as old as Rome, older even. And that’s what our Hybrid Third World War is really all about.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 21:22 utc | 110

sln2002 @106–
You finally sipped up and your mask dropped. No EU nation is sovereign!! They gave that away when they joined the EU.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 21:28 utc | 111

Opport Knocks #98
“both teams are playing games.”
I don’t see how enforcing a critical component’s maintenance schedule is playing games. If you work in safety- and mission-critical industries, scheduled maintenance is not optional. Blow an aircraft’s 100-hour check and the regulator will do expensive, nasty things to you. In civil engineering, warranties, certificates and insurance die suddenly. No game.

Posted by: TPaine | Jun 24 2022 21:39 utc | 112

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 24 2022 15:51 utc | 21
zelensky will leave the country on a cia flight to Virginia
that does seem a likely solution. It seems to me that the really devoted nazi’s will have something to say about that.
I have this ridiculous notion that the US has agreed to sacrifice Ukraine to Russia. They need the actor to continue to destroy his people because Russia, knowing that all the arsenals of the US, UK and EU are depleted and they can’t mount an attack. The RF has shown the wonder weapons to be more appropriate for the Korean or Vietnam era, and their only defense now is the last choice of the insane. Since the west is starving for oil, it is likely they have made a deal to keep the sea lanes open to supply the “unfriendly” nations with very expensive crude.
We will get some nice video of Z spilling the fake beans about how the nasty nazi’s held his family hostage with Gonzalo, that he didn’t like nazi’s and only killed those 200K locals because he couldn’t help or had brain fever or a bout of the plague.
The only thing I am sure about is that the Russians tell the only truth and they reserve it for important occasions. The allies of doom do not know how to speak a truth except by accident.
Russia is the only one with a plan and it is hard to imagine them not completing it. Before or after two rump nations nearby are given the opportunity to cooperate or be turned off.

Posted by: Tard | Jun 24 2022 21:40 utc | 113

@Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jun 24 2022 20:17 utc | 98
Revenue = Volume * Price. Volume may be down but price will be way up, so Russia makes the same amount of money while selling less gas and therefore causing its enemies severe problems. All the more gas to sell to the rapidly growing Asian demand, so “F*ck the EU”, as a certain US diplomat put it so well.
Germany could easily fix the problem by certifying Nordstream 2, which is all ready to go. Its the Germans who are stabbing themselves in the face, aided by the US poodle Canada.

Posted by: Roger | Jun 24 2022 21:44 utc | 114

Down South @ 25:
I think a likely scenario will be that Zelensky will be “informed” of a planned “coup” and he will be advised to leave Kiev for Warsaw. Of course he will put up a tantrum about staying to see the “war” to the bitter end but eventually he will be persuaded to leave Country 404 and head a “government in exile” somewhere in Poland or even in Miami where former Ukie PM Arseny Yatsenyuk currently sells real estate.
After all constant Internet rumour has it that Zelenski has been residing in Poland since Russia began the SMO back in February. All that remains is for Zelensky to move out of the movie-set lot where he entertains EU leaders and takes UK PM Boris Johnson on walks around a fake Kiev, and into a building in Warsaw somewhere where he and his supporters / groupies can pretend to be a government.
The Ukies already had a test run with the faked killing of the journalist Arkady Babchenko a few years ago in order to cover up their attempted takeover of a private business supplying lenses for their sniper rifles. Everything that happens or appears to happen is actually staged for a purpose.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 24 2022 21:59 utc | 115

@98
re: Siemens NG compressors for NS1 “only one is in Canada”
Yeah and they refused to return (ie confiscated) their customer’s property – what kind of fool would continue to send the others when it is their turn for service?
This isn’t “playing games”, it’s NATO governments directly, and in fact rather bluntly, sabotaging the infrastructure they depend on, then obfuscating to cover up that it was their own actions that shut off the function of the infrastructure they sabotaged.

Posted by: ptb | Jun 24 2022 22:00 utc | 116

Posted by: Oh | Jun 24 2022 15:58 utc | 24
Those troop numbers mentioned by The Duran are referring to approximate troop numbers at the start of the SMO on Feb 24. Since then, those numbers have been significantly readjusted to the point where no informed commentators which includes the two Alex’s on The Duran has any doubt about the outcome being a total victory to the Russian led forces. Of course, all of those informed commentators knew that was the only possible outcome on Feb 24.

Posted by: John65 | Jun 24 2022 22:01 utc | 117

Lavrov
“The path that Europeans have chosen is reminiscent of the beginning of World War II. Under his banners, Hitler gathered a significant, if not most, part of the European countries for the war against the Soviet Union. Now, in the same way, including the EU together with NATO, they are assembling a modern coalition to fight, and by and large a “war” with the Russian Federation. We will look at all this carefully.”
Sarmat being deployed and to be operational towards the end of the year. S-500 the same… another reason to ensure the op is slow moving. Give it six to twelve months – US defeated in Ukraine, US economy collapsing, social unrest. Will be an interesting period.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 24 2022 22:05 utc | 118

What could the US or UK have on the EU that would cause them to make choices that are self destructive to the union and every nation? What does the US/UK have on the individual nations that would make them empty their arsenal and give it to a boy emperor that clearly doesn’t know anything but PR? Is it 200K by now?
But in the last couple days I heard Monsieur Macron inform Z that he and his nation share the ideals of Ukraine. Is Macron Vichy? I have heard 5 or 10 US high ups say almost the same thing. Boris, Ursula, Scholz, It is hard to count them now.
Is it a fair question to ask if the governments of many EU nations and their EU organization are nazi or nazi sympathizers? Their voices say progressive, labor, conservative but their actions are fascist. Does nazi mean anti Russian, was that its original intent? Hitler trying to find something to enrage the citizenry to rearm and join together for a bit of mass murder of foreigners and popular religions?
Does anyone else feel like there is going to be an explosion when the people of these nations realize their whole world is trying to relive WW2?
this is starting to stink very badly. The financial system is on its last let and the only way to resurrect your failed state and leaders is to create a crisis to scare the masses. Why yes, of course they are.

Posted by: Tard | Jun 24 2022 22:09 utc | 119

Posted by: Wobbli | Jun 24 2022 19:57 utc | 93
And what symbol shall we use for western duplicity? We are still working on breaking Xinjiang out of China. Of course we only do that for the most noble of motives, I am sure. We only mean well, after all.
Just as we only threaten the Solomon Islands out of deepest respect for its citizens. They can of course choose whoever they want to ally with. Unless it is someone we don’t approve of.

Posted by: Martina | Jun 24 2022 22:12 utc | 120

By design.It is white christians that are dieing on both sides.
This is Organized Deconstruction of White Christian based society.
powers that be are killing two birds with one stone.
House always wins.

Posted by: billy | Jun 24 2022 22:21 utc | 121

Ukraine will recruit people with disabilities. OK. Me and my administration are ready to fight. Send us the papers.
Joe Tzu

Posted by: albagen | Jun 24 2022 22:24 utc | 122

Dontcha know “we’re also a country of the rule of law and we need to make sure those laws are respected.” Justin Trudeau
Posted by: krypto | Jun 24 2022 19:27 utc | 86

Which laws? I am not aware of any law voted by a parliament about the sanctions or for sending weapons to Ukraine. In the USA, yes, to send money, but in Canada and Europe?
The French monarch decided all by himself.

Posted by: Olivier | Jun 24 2022 22:32 utc | 123

“EU apparat, which is a colony of the Outlaw US Empire”
The EU is not a country. It’s not even a territory. The EU’s 27 sovereign nations allied with a trade agreement which is not even enforceable by the Consillium.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 20:42 utc | 106

It is an empire, the 4th Reich. With a NAtional-soZIalist at the head of Germany, the leading economy.
Sovereign nations? ROTFL. Several of them do not have even a national currency.

Posted by: Olivier | Jun 24 2022 22:44 utc | 124

the idiot Blinken in Germany today: “Ukraine is defending itself with extraordinary courage and resilience, and Russia has already lost.” . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 24 2022 22:48 utc | 125

karlof1@74
You are doing a marvellous job. Both you and b supply the world with the raw materials for reasoning.
Posted by: bevin | Jun 24 2022 19:16 utc | 85
Well said. And thanks for your earlier post with those 4-5 points. Very interesting…

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 22:48 utc | 126

@ karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 19:15 utc | 74 and 84
thanks for those two posts karl… eurospirators…. that is a good word for them… a house built on the values and principles they are pursuing here will fall.. it is only a matter of time..
@ Kle | Jun 24 2022 20:43 utc | 107
i don’t know if you have discovered this, but there are a number of translations of the tao teh ching… only after reading a very good one will you immediately recognize the difference when someone shares another one… this is what i discovered in my 20’s… i had to go pull out my copy, and although it is not the one i had from back in the 70’s, it is from the 80’s shambhala press… here is john c.h. wu translation of stanza 31.. to my mind it is a much more coherent and better translation..
Fine weapons of war augur evil.
Even things seem to hate them.
Therefore, a man of Tao does not set his heart upon them.
In ordinary life, a gentleman regards the left side as the place of honour:
In war, the right side is the place of honour.
As weapons are instruments of evil,
They are not properly a gentleman’s instruments;
Only on necessity will he resort to them.
For peace and quiet are dearest to his heart,
And to him even a victory is no cause for rejoicing.
The rejoice over a victory is to rejoice over the slaughter of men!
Hence a man who rejoices over the slaughter of men cannot expect to thrive in the world of men.
On happy occasions the left side is preferred:
On sad occasions the right side.
In the army, the Lieutenant Commander stands on the left,
While the Commander-in-Chief stands on the right.
This means that war is treated on a par with a funeral service.
Because many have been killed, it is only right that survivors should mourn for them.
Hence, even a victory is a funeral.

Posted by: james | Jun 24 2022 22:53 utc | 127

someones smokin crack
sovereign nations ha bloody ha
the law of the world is ucc
uniform commercial code
b i s bank i m f
the empire of the city of london and wall street and the rise of hitler
bankrupt nations owned by corporations run by zionist khazaian satanists

Posted by: norman wisdom | Jun 24 2022 22:53 utc | 128

When you are outa gas You are outa gas
Joe Tzu
Posted by: Sushi | Jun 24 2022 19:40 utc | 90
Out of gas? Who, me?
At my four o’clock dinner
Mashers and baked beans
–Jō Haiku
Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 19:48 utc | 91
My two favorites so far!
I love the addition of the Haiku form.
How do you type that funny ō ?
———————————–
My dog in the West Wing
Biting the security officer again…
How marvelous this world!
–Jō Haiku

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 22:54 utc | 129

Tard @119–
You ask good questions. Earlier this month, I wrote and published a series of three articles about fact the Europe/EU was now the colonial subject of the Outlaw US Empire, “The Colonization of Europe by the Outlaw US Empire” being the first followed by Lavrov’s confirmation then Putin’s. There’re more detailed, book-length monographs on the subject but none that deal with the current situation that’s seen the Outlaw US Empire finally seal its control. How can that be? you ask. Hudson tells a story from the early 1970s where he’s mistaken by a German Minister who confesses to the Empire’s control of Germany’s decision-making process. Then we have the contrived Mafia war within Italy aimed at keeping Italy’s Communists from gaining power. The Greek tale ought to be well known from the movie “Z”. And the foundation for it all can be discovered by reading Gabriel Kolko’s Politics of War.
IMO, the most salient point is the one I make in my essay–Europeans were never allowed to determine their fate. It’s all been done through controlled parliaments, bureaucrats and ministers–some bought; some indoctrinated; some true believers in Neoliberal fascism.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 22:55 utc | 130

With the Supreme Court’s ruling reversing of the the 1973 Roe V Wade decision, I suspect that Biden and the Dems will concentrate more on marshaling votes for the November elections, especially with the female and disadvantaged vote and slowly reduce their focus on the Ukrainian conflict.

Posted by: Menz | Jun 24 2022 22:55 utc | 131

and i would like to draw debs is dead attention to the above stanza so that he may find a place in his heart where he understands more of the inner space that some of us here at moa long for…

Posted by: james | Jun 24 2022 22:56 utc | 132

@ Scorpion
I cut/pasted the ō from a Wikipedia article on Bashō :-)))

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 24 2022 23:05 utc | 133

According to one recent poll quoted by RT as little/much as one fifth of non-Russian Europeans actually support the idiocy against Russia, let’s not burn those bridges.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 24 2022 20:02 utc | 94
Not surprised. Most of the hatefest against Russians is manufactured by a corrupt press.
I have a quibble with Lavrov’s speech too.
“The path that Europeans have chosen is reminiscent of the beginning of World War II. Under his banners, Hitler gathered a significant, if not most, part of the European countries for the war against the Soviet Union.”
I think that’s a bit much. Hitler didn’t have UK, Spain, France and many others on his side in 1941. Yes, almost a million pan-European volunteers joined Waffen SS brigades but I believe less than half of them were not German speaking.
That said, this time he’s right: basically all of Western Europe is against Russia right now. The good news for Lavrov is that their cause is obviously as weak as their economies. And he knows this very well…..

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 23:08 utc | 134

Posted by: TPaine | Jun 24 2022 21:39 utc | 112

I don’t see how enforcing a critical component’s maintenance schedule is playing games. If you work in safety- and mission-critical industries, scheduled maintenance is not optional. Blow an aircraft’s 100-hour check and the regulator will do expensive, nasty things to you. In civil engineering, warranties, certificates and insurance die suddenly. No game.

I seem to recall reading that the maintenance schedule was for Fall? Would be nice to actually see the schedule as that would certainly remove all doubts.
I suspect that the Russians might have leveraged this a bit, and, well, who is to blame them after all the crap they’ve taken? They might have stretched this in an effort to push the Germans to contemplate NS2. It is looking like the Germans will come down to committing to derail NS2 once and for all, and by doing so there’s plenty to then point to blame [it’s on the Germans themselves].
It’s all part of the inevitable downward spiral of the growth paradigm: the West is firmly locked into the downward trajectory [magic money printing is ending]. Russia and a few other countries have a bit more upward travel yet before they too succumb to the inevitable… (the real “opponent” is Mother Nature, and Mother Nature bats last)

Posted by: Seer | Jun 24 2022 23:10 utc | 135

@131 Menz
That will no doubt be their strategy. But boy, do they have an uphill battle here…
Everything is like 50% increased in price. Death for all but the savviest incumbent politicians, and current crop of Dems are hardly that.
There’s no conceivable way to blame inflation on the Supreme Court (and I do profoundly disagree with the decision btw). Simultaneously they try to blame Russia, but that doesn’t hold water either.
In fact the war component of the inflation has largely not yet arrived to the US – the price increases relative to 2020 we’re now seeing, are largely the product of the 2021 prelude to the whole thing, plus of course the 14 years of high speed money printing since the financial crisis – finally overflowed the cup during Covid I suppose.
Oh man, if you think it’s bad now, wait til the end of this year. Energy prices have an effect that’s lagged. The 18-months-out futures global price eg of natgas has been on an upward march to 3x normal levels for a full year, the steady climb hasn’t slowed down, and what big customers are paying now is last year’s contracts. There’s so much more in the pipeline, I have no idea what’s going to happen…

Posted by: ptb | Jun 24 2022 23:25 utc | 136

psychohistorian #37

Let me repeat that the coming NATO gathering will be to discuss term of surrender and the dissolution of NATO
I expect they will have the message by then that resistance is futile in Ukraine and China is coming right behind to close the global deal.

I join you in your optimism. Yet I am deeply pessimistic that the only sound they can ever hear is the tribune sounding victory!
At the beginning of this 21st century, NATO, led by Jens Stoltenberg :/ has demonstrated the mighty wisdom of that old adage – NEVER MARCH ON MOSCOW. Collectively the wisdom of this global parasite has maintained poverty, death and destruction throughout the euroland following its other middle east squanders etc.
Can we have our peace dividend now please.
It seems the war dividend team have wasted the last three decades.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 24 2022 23:31 utc | 137

@Wobbli | Jun 24 2022 19:57 utc | 93

I guess they mean “all states” except the ones …

that are regime-changed, Nazified, set on a course of military aggression against their neighbors, and de facto dismembered by the imperialists.

Posted by: SlowDL | Jun 24 2022 23:33 utc | 138

“..The was plenty of volunteers from all over German occupied Europe more than happy to fight for Nazi Germany…” Peter AU1@102
Yes there were. But to be fair not a few of the young men in the Waffen SS ranks were choosing it as an alternative to forced labour in Germany. The male labour force of Occupied Europe was not given much of a choice: serving the government (dominated by Nazis) was compulsory.
“… I believe in popular self-determination, I hold all states to be artificial entities, and certainly I shouldn’t expect Galicians to vote the same way as Rusyns, to say nothing of Novorossiyans. Nor would I want such diverse and mutually antagonistic groups lumped into the same plebiscite…” malenkov@101
I’m assuming that there will be plebiscites in every region/community. This will conform with the Crimea precedent though not that in Kossovo where the issue was considered by NATO too important to be left to the hoi poloi.
It is important as you suggest, for these referenda to be fairly administered, free from the presence of a Gestapo. The best people to supervise such a process are probably the Venezuelans who seem to have mastered the art of running honest elections. International organisations like the UN are completely compromised and untrustworthy.
You will have to tell us what it is that inebriates you- a lot of us could benefit from it.
karlof1@110
The difference is that sharing ones opinions is an unalloyed pleasure, whereas what you do, and there are others making similar contributions, involves much work and dull routine tasks like translation. RS Hack used to perform a similar service,. It is to be hoped that after a brief rest he will return.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 24 2022 23:37 utc | 139

parallel courts of justice rack up bills for UA civil defense
Putin signed laws on non-execution of ECHR judgments in the Russian Federation from March 15, 2022, 11 June

until January 1, 2023, the possibility of paying monetary compensation to the applicant from the Prosecutor General’s Office of Russia in accordance with the decisions of the ECHR, which were issued before March 16. … Recall that on March 15, Moscow officially announced with a note that it was withdrawing from the Council of Europe and the European Convention on Human Rights. A statement was made that the Russian Federation will not comply with the decisions of the ECHR if they do not comply with the Russian Constitution.

US Attorney General Merrick B. Garland Visits Ukraine, Reaffirms U.S. Commitment to Help Identify, Apprehend, and Prosecute Individuals Involved in War Crimes and Atrocities, 21 June
[ECHR] finds Russian ‘foreign agents’ law violates human rights convention, 14 June

The European Court of Human Rights sided with 73 Russian organizations impacted by the regulation, finding the law impedes the work of civil society groups and violates freedom of expression.

Ukrainians who have suffered from russian aggression can apply to the European Court of Human Rights online, 22 June

compensation from EUR 5,000 to 30,000. For this purpose, you must have time to apply to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) within four months of the violation of their rights, but no later than January 16, 2023. From today, you can apply to the ECHR online through the appropriate electronic system: espl.com.ua
The system contains a list of situations that give the right to apply to the ECHR: the death of a relative, destroyed housing, injuries, unlawful deprivation of liberty, torture, rape or enforced disappearance, etc.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 24 2022 23:38 utc | 140

Arioch | Jun 24 2022 19:54 utc | 92
re aftershock links
Thank you and drinks at the bar on me. I had missed your earlier posts and note that the site is loaded with great snippets of news.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 24 2022 23:41 utc | 141

The was plenty of volunteers from all over German occupied Europe more than happy to fight for Nazi Germany.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 24 2022 20:36 utc | 102
The Nordic countries in particular. Something like 6000 Danes signed up. A Norwegian blogger I read claimed that more Norwegian men signed up with the Nazis than died resisting the Nazis in their initial invasion. Blogger claimed some evidence to suggest the Norwegians were involved with killing Jews in Ukraine.

Posted by: Erelis | Jun 24 2022 23:46 utc | 142

Excuse billybob @121
All Russian ethnicities are fighting on the frontline. Are you so blinkered?
Plenty Muslims dying fighting house to house and here’s you denigrating their bravery.
Shameful.

Posted by: WTFUD | Jun 24 2022 23:46 utc | 143

bevin #85

karlof1@74
You are doing a marvellous job. Both you and b supply the world with the raw materials for reasoning.
What was once a tiny island of sanity in a world of propaganda is now growing into a base for truth telling, while the propaganda, like an evil smelling fog, slowly melts away into pools of sewage, like Congress or the Houses of Commons in Ottawa and Westminster.

Agreed and my thanks as well. But please include the parliaments of Australia and New Zealand in that pool you mentioned.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 24 2022 23:46 utc | 144

I observe the jist of this thread has come to understand
that what has been incompentence on the part of those appointed to govern, is not being considered to be some form of treason to the governed people ?
This means the parties in charge of the governments have transition-ed the object of their intentions from advancing the lot of those it governs, to using those it governs for some unseen purpose?
Also the evening news in America blanked out Ukraine and replaced the space with the supreme courts (political ruling, in my opinion) reneging on its own decision in Roe v. Wade.
Divide to conquer comes to mind. One commentator said three of the justices that voted for the reversal today said in their confirmation hearings they supported Roe v. Wade..
Humanity is on its own.. Looks to me like.

Posted by: snake | Jun 24 2022 23:55 utc | 145

@ Wobblie | Jun 24 2022 20:40 utc | 105
A conversation with a “leading communist”, or a statement by the CPRF (hint: you won’t find the patently stupid expression “Putin’s war” here:)

Posted by: SlowDL | Jun 25 2022 0:01 utc | 146

karlof1 #110

Yesterday, Martyanov linked to this short blog note by Larry Johnson about the ignorance of WW2 History by those living in the Outlaw US Empire and elsewhere in the four English speaking colonies, which prompted me to write a comment that linked back to my essay in February about the actual aims of WW2 that all the allied nations signed onto attaining, “Back to the Future: China & Russia Vow to Fulfill WW2’s Victory Goals & Reinvigorate the Architecture to Achieve Them”. That essay has its background in one of the first I wrote and published at VK, “Revisiting Henry Wallace’s Century of The Common Man”. The point I made in my comment was that few know any of all that as it’s been very skillfully swept under the rug, just as carefully as political-economy was removed from study by all major US universities by the beginning of the 1920s so what was to become Neoliberalism couldn’t be easily refuted.

Thank you, can I note that political economy was still alive and well in a number of major universities in Australia in the 1970’s and 1980’s. The assassination of those courses was facilitated by ‘left’ governments in Australia when they agreed to corporatise the universities. Sad days indeed.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jun 25 2022 0:02 utc | 147

@Wobblie | Jun 24 2022 20:40 utc | 105

An enlightening conversation with a leading member of the Russian Communist Party.

You are talking shit as always. Kagarlitsky has nothing to do with the CPRF. He was or still is loosely leaning towards SR (Just Russia), more exactly its left wing. He indeed understands himself as Marxist.
The “Institute of Globalisation Studies and Social Movements (IGSO)” he is founder and leader of, received fundings and held contacts with Swedish Social Democrats, the Finnish Alexanteri Institute, and the German Heinrich Boell Stiftung (a party foundation of the rabidly pro NATO and militaristic German Gruene), and at least at times received funds by EU institutions. Generally, he is West leaned and anti Putin.
That does not devaluate everything he says, but you should inform better or lie more cunningly.

Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 25 2022 0:06 utc | 148

Russia should liquidate Ukraine’s military. That should be the new focus having won territory Russia wanted. Land grabbing phase is now complete. Attacking civilian centres must stop now. Seek Ukraine military concentrations and destroy them. Destruction of bridges to Odessa is also a must to end the war and sufferings quickly.

Posted by: Jason | Jun 25 2022 0:10 utc | 149

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 24 2022 23:08 utc | 134
If you are talking the beginning of WWII ie 1939, Hitler did have most of Europe.
Italy, Austria,Germany, Hungary to start with, plus the fellow travelers less publicly, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Spain, Portugal probably Ireland.
That leaves essentially France and UK. Now France indeed may have opposed the idea of war with Russia, but with the UK it was NOT a given and there was a very real possibility of the UK allying itself with Germany. I know that this is what my father firmly believed in 1939, and it was not until quite late in the war when the bombing of the UK started that it was clear.
So in fact the Russians quite rightly can say that most of Europe was allied against them. Britain was very wobbly but much of the aristocracy was heavily fascist.
The German plan/hope was to restore Edward VIII to the throne. He was a known German sympathizer and his wife was “very friendly” with the German ambassador Ribbentrop. The whole divorce/love rigmarole was about removing a NAZI sympathetic King. The turning point was 1941, when Hesse failed to complete negotiations. Oddly enough another royal prince, very hostile to Russia had an unfortunate air crash and disappeared at roughly the same time as Hesse tried to arrive. This prince had actual brains and was used as a diplomat. From one drama type program (OK not a reliable source) but it implied that this young Prince aged in his early teens had been rather keen on his Russian cousins who had come to stay for the summer and he took their removal by the Communist regime a little badly.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 25 2022 0:13 utc | 150

Cobbled together all the recent adventures of Sergei Lavrov into one article, “We are seeing today that the West has declared a war on the entire world”, where all the interview and presser links are provided to their English transcripts. I did copy/paste Lavrov’s most recent with Belarus State Media as IMO it’s the most comprehensive of all four interviews. I’m sure Sergei was happy to leave town and have a working vacation in Tehran and Baku. Lavrov’s lamentations about Moldova tell me the SMO will absorb Transnistria.
Thanks for the many replies! I’d answer but the sun’s shining and I’m thirsty!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 25 2022 0:22 utc | 151

On the way back from the neighborhood pub, a couple more Jō Haiku haiku:
Baby shampoo scent,
Delicate nymphet fragrance –
Fire between my loins
Corn Pop agape
Seeing my hairy legs – not
Nymphet, but will do

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 25 2022 0:24 utc | 152

Kle | Jun 24 2022 20:43 utc | 107
Mr. V.V. Putin is aware of this very thing…It is obvious.

Posted by: donten | Jun 25 2022 0:25 utc | 153

@Wobbli (GCHQ?)
‘the sovereignty and territorial integrity’ of Ukraine ended after Uncle Sambo orchestrated, instigated and financed ($5billion…good job!) a fascist coup in Kiev in Jan/Feb 2014 and violently removed the democratically elected government from power.
The new ‘pro-west’ junta then decided to bomb, shell and murder ethnic Russians for 8 years in the Donbass…in full view of and right across the ‘official border’ of, erm, Russia.
I suppose Juan Guaido is still the legitimate leader of the sovereign state of Venezuela and all it’s territorial integrity cos Uncle Sambo says so?
Illegally occupying parts of Northern Syria and stealing truckloads of their oil isn’t a violation of their sovereignty and territorial integrity….because Uncle Sambo says so?
Uncle Sambo and it’s Eurobot poodles in Brussels can take their sovereignty and territorial integrity and shove it where Hunter Biden smuggles his coke.

Posted by: Prince Andrew | Jun 25 2022 0:28 utc | 154

Something’s telling me that it’s going to be a cold winter in much of Europe this year.

Posted by: Wind in His Pants | Jun 25 2022 0:30 utc | 155

@ Wind in his Pants/155 It does seem like Putin wants to drag things out in Ukraine a while longer. Maybe he’s planning on General Winter to do most of the work against NATO.

Posted by: Citizenfitz | Jun 25 2022 0:38 utc | 156

i did some astro work with a friend… i figure the way that mars-rahu-uranus conjunction hits zelensky and the 557pm ukraine chart indicates a change in leadership… the conjunction happens august 1st… lets see what happens right in that window of time.. it is a long ways away, but many here seemed to think this dynamic would be over quickly and the longer it goes on, the less likely that appears to me…
Posted by: james | May 7 2022 16:05 utc | 5
Posted by: james | Jun 24 2022 17:58 utc | 63
I wonder what the 2014 coup chart shows as a national chart? Just by comparison I think it would be interesting. I can’t find one (of course)
The Uranus etc conjunction in August will be within a few degrees of the descendant of the 1991 Ukraine Chart, just near the cusp of house 4: Endings. It is also opposing Pluto on the Midheaven, I can’t see that being a positive. In fact looking at the 1991 chart it is not the chart of a stable country at all. I agree that something explosive with a huge consequence will happen leading up to or near that time.
I guess it’s off topic, but interesting none the less. Thanks for your comment.

Posted by: K | Jun 25 2022 0:38 utc | 157

Posted by: Prince Andrew | Jun 25 2022 0:28 utc | 154
A toast to that.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 0:41 utc | 158

Posted by: watcher | Jun 25 2022 0:13 utc | 150
“If you are talking the beginning of WWII ie 1939, Hitler did have most of Europe. Italy, Austria, Germany, Hungary to start with, plus the fellow travelers less publicly, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Spain, Portugal probably Ireland.”
But not many European States fielded armies against the communists after 1941, did they? In 1939 Germany and USSR were at peace. The later Waffen brigades were volunteers, no?, ie not officially sponsored by their governments. If I’m wrong, am glad to be corrected but I wasn’t aware that many nations other than Germany declared war on Russia. I guess Italy did as part of the axis but they only sent 62,000 soldiers and the Germans didn’t think they were very effective. https://www.rbth.com/history/333081-how-and-why-italy-fought-soviets
Were there many more nations that sent armies against Russia? I just looked it up: Germany, Italy, Romania, then later Hungary and Finland. That hardly strikes me as ‘most of Europe.’
I wrote communists deliberately because many here have been saying that these countries and people were ‘joining the Nazis.’ That’s one way of putting it but
a) remember at that point there were no atrocity stories and
b) they were not so much ‘joining Nazis’ as fighting against a much-feared communist invasion of Europe. Communism was anti-religion, anti-monarchy, anti-traditional family values, anti private property and widely perceived as having instigated the murder of twenty to forty million Christians in their own country. That is what they were fighting against, to prevent such horrors being visited upon their own fellow citizens.
Now today many might believe such attitudes as being unfounded because it seems many communist-supporters today don’t believe the stories of mass murder in Russia. But it doesn’t really matter how we view such things today, rather how the people then viewed them and it is my impression that communism was widely regarded as a real and present danger. Which is why in Germany for example the low-born Hitler got enough votes to gain power. The people preferred a nationalist vision to a communist one.
Today, modern Russia is a nationalist state as far as I can tell in that it is proud of itself as a country as are its citizens and it does not have the mission of converting the rest of Europe to its polity. For Russians at least, times have changed and for the better.
It seems what is bad is not nationalism – which is not necessarily fascist – but Empire which seeks to impose its reality on others without their consent so usually by military or economic force. The West is now an Empire-style conglomeration which restricts liberty and other nations’ sovereignty (ie nationalism). For the West, at least, it seems times have changed and for the worse.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 0:51 utc | 159

Operation Pike
Posted by: watcher | Jun 25 2022 0:13 utc | 150
Now France indeed may have opposed the idea of war with Russia, but with the UK it was NOT a given and there was a very real possibility of the UK allying itself with Germany
The UK and France jointly planned and deployed aircraft to undertake Operation Pike which involved a joint air strike on Baku and Grozny in the Soviet oil production region.
A decent overview is found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pike
Operation Pike failed to proceed due to the German invasion of France on May 10 1940.
If it has gone ahead it would likely have left the UK fighting alone against the forces of the 3rd Reich and the USSR. The Soviets were aware of the operational intent both due to RAF reconnaissance flights of the target and likely due to the work of the Cambridge spies.

Posted by: Sushi | Jun 25 2022 0:59 utc | 160

What could the US or UK have on the EU that would cause them to make choices that are self destructive to the union and every nation? What does the US/UK have on the individual nations that would make them empty their arsenal and give it to a boy emperor that clearly doesn’t know anything but PR? Is it 200K by now?
Posted by: Tard | Jun 24 2022 22:09 utc | 119
Van der Leyen lived for several years in the US while her husband taught at Harvard. Probably some of her 7 children were born there, and are US Amercians. I am not sure they need anything on her, she thinks she is doing the right thing by siding with the US. Her own country.
The German Greens are US/UK plants. Foreign Minister Baerbock studied in London (in a course of studies for which she lacked proper qualification). When she became Germany’s Foreign Minister, she brought along the US activist Jennifer Morgan of Green Peace fame, and installed this US American in the Foreign Office. To set a sign, she claimed. A sign for what?
Cem Özdemir, Minister for Agriculture, had to resign from the German parliament a decade or two ago because he had privately travelled on taxpayer money. He went to the US, and spent some years there in a think tank while the scandal died down, before they planted him in the Bundestag again. He is nothing if not grateful.
The German Chancellor is weak, and driven by the Greens in his government.
The Bulgarian prime minister who lost the no confidence vote yesterday, is Canadian and studied at Harvard. His first attempt to become minister in Bulgaria failed because there was a problem with his citizenship. Didn’t take long to fix that, though.
Zelensky and his family have UK passports. An awful lot of Ukrainian ministers were not only chosen by the US, but were granted Ukrainian citizenship only in order to give them government positions. Several returned to the US after a stint in Ukrainian poitics. Even judges are appointed from abroad, so you can be sure they will be amenable to influence from US/UK and EU.
By now I think it’s just like that in most EU countries.

Posted by: Martina | Jun 25 2022 1:04 utc | 161

Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 0:51 utc | 159
There is also the geo-political aspect prior to the German/Polish invasion and partition of Czechoslovakia. No country would join the Soviet Union in preventing the German takeover. Poland would not let Soviet forces through. Britain France ect basically gave Hitler the nod. Poland allied with Germany.
Putin spoke on it at length some months ago.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2022 1:09 utc | 162

According to the “experts” at ISW the Ukrainian forces have completed their task at Severodonetsk by wearing the Russian military down to its bones. And since they’ve basically bled the Russians dry then there’s nothing more to do there, so, you know, time to pull back and bask in the glow of A Job Well Done.
They’ll pull back to Lysichansk, which is totally not surrounded by the Russians, and from there they will do their very best Obi-Wan impersonation by shouting “It’s over, Anikan! I have the high ground!” to the poor, bedraggled Russians.
Here, read it and weep for poor, poor Vladimir:
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-24

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 25 2022 1:26 utc | 163

Interesting article on Snake Island by M. K. Bhadrakumar at Indian Punchline:
https://www.indianpunchline.com/southern-ukraine-is-the-priority-in-natos-planning/
It is not clear to me how Ukraine could expect to hold the island even if they did succeed in capturing it given lack of air defenses and aircraft. I do believe that sooner rather than later Russia will move on Odessa. How they plan to do this I have no clue, but I am sure they do have a plan. They will not pause from now until they finish the SMO I don’t think. Any momentum they can build up in the east they will capitalize on directly.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 25 2022 1:33 utc | 164

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 0:51 utc | 159
What a load of biased right wing rot.
Firstly I was talking the beginning of WWII, not the USA perceived 1941 war start. Yes in 1939, there was every chance that Europe, including the UK and probably add the USA would gang up on Russia. Remember that the USA ambassador to the UK was very pro German and in a sense anti British. His name was Joseph Kennedy. This was the Irishman talking.
Secondly, there were very many socialists and communists in Europe and in other places who were sympathetic to the ideals of the USSR. The population was very divided. Because you are a Christian you see things through that lens, but in reality there was probably more national support in the west for socialism (not necessarily communism) but the equality ideas pushed by social Democrats. Support for Fascism was low, and in most areas insignificant (but not non-existent). Of course the Catholic Church was vehemently anti communist/USSR but that sentiment was nowhere near as strong amongst Protestants. You have a very, very, very USA view on things. The case was widely different in most other places. So yes true of Poland, but not even true in France with its history of revolution.
Now for obvious reasons Finland feared Russia -not communism, just Russia. I am less sure about the other Scandinavian countries, but Sweden is a historic enemy.
The Stalinist purges were of course vaguely understood and used as a focus for hostility, but as is true of hypocrites everywhere the purges of Hitler were ignored for a long time.

Posted by: watcher | Jun 25 2022 1:34 utc | 165

@ K | Jun 25 2022 0:38 utc | 157
hi k… i have a chart for feb 20, 2014 7pm kiev – 26 leo 04 using sidereal KP lagna.. take a look.. i call this the ukraine revolution chart..i don’t know why i have this and why this date and time as i don’t have notes to go with it.. however it is very subjective and the date could be started feb 16, or it could be moved to feb 22nd or 23rd.. either way mars in early libra with the hard aspect of square from transit pluto suggests the violence of war at this particular time is heightened – if you use a chart from this time frame. again – using this chart, or any chart in the vicinity is very subjective… any chart around this time frame has sun-neptune conjunction, so again a difficult set up in terms of self confidence – which is missing generally in sun-neptune conjunctions.. self identity as a country since 2014 is very ambiguous and uncertain, although the fanatics would see this differently..

Posted by: james | Jun 25 2022 1:36 utc | 166

@125 Don Bacon That is a… very painful thing to read, Don.
How much of that nonsense do you think he really believes?
I’m guessing: none of it.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 25 2022 1:44 utc | 167

It seems what is bad is not nationalism – which is not necessarily fascist – but Empire which seeks to impose its reality on others without their consent so usually by military or economic force. The West is now an Empire-style conglomeration which restricts liberty and other nations’ sovereignty (ie nationalism). For the West, at least, it seems times have changed and for the worse.
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 0:51 utc | 159
Nationalism can be a good thing if it is used for internal nation-building efforts, especially in overcoming tribal differences between different groups of people to focus on a larger goal. An example would be Singapore, in which Lee Kuan Yew had to artificially construct a national identity as an overlay on top of an individual’s ethnic identity, so they can find commonalities with those who look different from them. It is difficult to deny the success of his policies when looking at the country’s economic trajectory since its independence 50+ years ago.
Nationalism starts getting distasteful when it develops a chauvinist or arrogant overtone.

Posted by: bonks | Jun 25 2022 1:44 utc | 168

A.L. @ 42 and S @ 48:
The official video is pretty adolescent (no surprise). You might prefer this version. (No idea who put this together, but here it is…)

Posted by: DougK | Jun 25 2022 1:51 utc | 169

It was promised by the Russian government at the outset of the SMO (see https://tass.com/defense/1412703) that all leaders of the Kiev junta will be hunted down and punished. That includes Zelensky. No matter where he runs, he’ll be found. Mark these words.

Posted by: Victor | Jun 25 2022 1:58 utc | 170

sushi and malenkov @91
the perfect smile to go along with the news. so nice to be among friends and enjoy a moment a levity in a long slog. thanks.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Jun 25 2022 1:58 utc | 171

@ Yeah, Right | Jun 25 2022 1:44 utc | 167
How much of that nonsense do you think he really believes? I’m guessing: none of it.
Somebody made the point earlier that the West people are simply stupid (in a historical context) and I jumped in to remark that Blinken (and others) are so stupid that they actually believe what they are saying.
Specifically, Blinken repeatedly using the term “unprovoked invasion” when he was in the center of the provocation last winter, not caring about Russia’s complaints. Obviously (to Blinken) the US was completely right and Russia was completely wrong, and he continues to “think” so, actually coming up short in thinking, and then short in believing.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 25 2022 2:03 utc | 172

Sovereign nations? ROTFL. Several of them do not have even a national currency.
Posted by: Olivier | Jun 24 2022 22:44 utc | 124
The instrumentality of a “national currency” is no substitute for the integrity of a peoples’ political institutions, history has proved. Most notably tested by monetary policy of the ECB to crush differential pricing of sovereign bonds issued by the eurozone CBs, when Panic ’08 arrived. At the present time besides, you might have noticed, the FX trend is toward consolidating multinational monetary policies, trade balances, and purchasing power by adopting one “digital” tender for international settlement between “bloc” members.
EU7 +4 EFTA escaped the eurozone but all 30 “EEA” maintain unique FLAGS, heads of state, “bacic laws” (consitutions), judiciaries, and legislatures, which you will admit, do not automatically incorporate European Council “directives” (eg. SPG), drafted by the EC, and endorsed or not by the Council of the EU, of which sundry “portfolio” dragging subcommittiees and “competence” Councils.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 25 2022 2:04 utc | 173

(From Rybar thru Juan Sinmiedo)
Situation on the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk direction as at 22.00 June 24, 2022
🔻 The Group of Forces “South” under the command of Army General Surovikin has completed the defeat of the encircled group of the AFU in the “Gorskoe cauldron”. Russian troops and units of the LNR People’s Militia liberated the settlements of GORSKOE and ZOLOTE.
There were up to 2,000 people in the “Gorskoe Cauldron”: about 1,800 soldiers, 120 Right Sector Nazis, up to 80 foreign mercenaries; as well as more than 40 pieces of armored fighting vehicles and about 80 guns and mortars. Officially, 41 servicemen of the AFU have laid down their arms.
🔻 Allied forces are mopping up the southern outskirts of Lysychansk. Units and military units of the Russian Armed Forces’ Center Group under the command of Colonel General Lapin have blockaded the city from the south
▪️ Fierce fighting is taking place in the industrial zones on the southern outskirts of Lysychansk at a gelatin factory and a rubber products plant. Militia units are clearing the Lisichansk glass factory.
Tank units of the 17th Brigade are firing indiscriminately to deter the Russian Armed Forces’ offensive in the south of Lysychansk.
▪️ Despite fire control of the route from Lysychansk, a partial withdrawal of forces to alternate positions has begun. At the same time, some units voluntarily abandoned their positions: 60 servicemen of the 57th Brigade retreated from their positions.
There is intensive shelling of AFU positions in certain areas of SEVERODONETSK and LYSYCHANSK. The remaining AFU units are trying to leave SEVERODONETSK by forcing the Seversky Donets River on their own.
Artillery units and aviation of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed AFU strongholds in Maloryazantsevo and Novodruzhsk.
(From Rybar thru Juan Sinmiedo)

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 2:06 utc | 174

There’s a story about those crafty Russkies using a captured Ukie scout to in turn capture a group of thirsty ukie soldiers, by sheer deceit, without firing a shot.
True or not it’s a good laugh!

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 2:20 utc | 175

@ Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 2:06 utc | 174
Thanks for the SitRep. This ongoing situation hopefully will give the NATO Summit attendees something to think about (difficult to do) next week.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 25 2022 2:22 utc | 176

Several folks here are commenting on whither zelenski as all this winds down. Is there a possibility of a false flag assassination of zelenski? The reason I ask is that I am starting to hear worries about zelenski in the mainstream media. For example, Jim Cramer, who has a stock-picking program, just out of the blue starting talking about zelenski and how much danger he is in. The russians plan to assassinate him, “because that’s what they do.” The rant about zelenski had nothing to do with anything else he was talking about.
What would be the point of it? Who knows? What was the point of the skripal affair?

Posted by: Platero | Jun 25 2022 2:25 utc | 177

Karlof @30
France was free when Charles de Gaulle was in charge, seems to me. I did not read your articles, so maybe you have discussed that in one of them.

Posted by: fanto | Jun 25 2022 2:27 utc | 178

sorry, my mistake, it was to be
Karlof @ 130

Posted by: fanto | Jun 25 2022 2:32 utc | 179

@ Platero | Jun 25 2022 2:25 utc | 177
What was the point of the skripal affair?
Um. . .to make Russia look bad?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 25 2022 2:33 utc | 180

“To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, to be a friend is fatal”…
H. Kissinger

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 25 2022 2:36 utc | 181

Posted by: watcher | Jun 25 2022 1:34 utc | 165
“The Stalinist purges were of course vaguely understood and used as a focus for hostility, but as is true of hypocrites everywhere the purges of Hitler were ignored for a long time.”
(Not Christian; also not really American though I lived there for a while in the 70’s and 80’s. Suggestion: argue with what I wrote, not your projection of who I might be.)
There were tens of millions murdered before Stalin purges which was well known in Europe at the time but is generally not written about in English language histories for some reason.
Hitler’s purges at that point were miniscule, a few thousands, so not an issue on a par with the tens of millions brutally executed, starved, gulaged and butchered. And the later atrocity narratives involving Germany were not yet a factor at the time Lavrov was talking about.
I just had a little niggle with Lavrov’s statement that ‘most of Europe’ attacked Russia. I thought he was wrong and having now looked it up clearly he was. No big deal. He rarely exaggerates like that as far as I am aware.
However, he is correct now because pretty much all of Europe is aiding the forces in Ukraine Russia’s military is now trying to eliminate.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 2:41 utc | 182

Platero | Jun 25 2022 2:25 utc | 177
In the not too distant future, I suspect Zelensky’s main propaganda value will be in his death.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2022 2:57 utc | 183

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 25 2022 2:22 utc | 176
You can tell Putin has been seriously listening to Xi, because the Ukrops are getting a sustainable, comprehensive, people-centered beatdown with a global vision for a new century.
****************************
I am starting to hear worries about zelenski in the mainstream media. For example, Jim Cramer, who has a stock-picking program, just out of the blue starting talking about zelenski and how much danger he is in. The russians plan to assassinate him, “because that’s what they do.” The rant about zelenski had nothing to do with anything else he was talking about.
Posted by: Platero | Jun 25 2022 2:25 utc | 177
If that’s true, that’s some shit right down Uncanny Valley!
Do they have alien slugs for brains or what? 🤦🏻
The MIB cockroach with the redneck suit was more believable!

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 3:01 utc | 184

Tard @ 119:
In addition to what Martina @ 161 says about Ursula van der Leyen, the EU President is also descended from the Ladson family in South Carolina. The Ladsons made their wealth from transporting slaves across the Atlantic from Africa to North America in the 1700s and 1800s.
Ursula van der Leyen (nee Albrecht) even adopted the name Rose Ladson for a time in the 1970s when studying at the London School of Economics, to escape the attention of the Baader-Meinhof gang which was targeting the offspring of wealthy families in West Germany.

Posted by: Jen | Jun 25 2022 3:10 utc | 185

Hitler’s purges at that point were miniscule, a few thousands, so not an issue on a par with the tens of millions brutally executed, starved, gulaged and butchered, quartered, flayed, lapidated, dissolved, eviscerated, airlocked and disintegrated
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 2:41 utc | 182
Maybe at the hands of the fascistic and affine reactionary forces that crawled all over europe.
Careful with that nazistic hyperbole and historical revisionism, your odal is showing.
Sigh, now I’m gonna have to archive that post.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 3:17 utc | 186

Nothing “out of the blue” in what Jim “BuyNow” Cramer said, scripted straight from Langley. What is amazing is how well it works. Saw some old friends this week, should not have but we discussed the news. Any positive mention of Putin or Russia was met with “If you like him so much you should move there”. If they said something it was always “Putin the Dictator”, any mention of Nazis was met with “Oh they are a tiny tiny percentage”. I remember these folks are college adminstrative types who only source PBS.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Jun 25 2022 3:21 utc | 187

From a ZH posting

Starting Thursday, Ukraine’s Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov hailed the arrival of the longest-range missiles the United States has provided thus far in the four-month long war.
“HIMARS have arrived to Ukraine. Thank you to my colleague and friend SecDef Lloyd J. Austin III for these powerful tools! Summer will be hot for Russian occupiers. And the last one for some of them,” Reznikov announced on Twitter.
…..
The US has said that Ukraine’s military leadership has provided “assurances” it won’t use the newly provided systems to attack Russian territory, amid persisting fears Washington and Moscow could enter direct conflict.
Reznikov announcement didn’t specify how many HIMARS have arrived at this point, however, it didn’t take long at all for Ukraine military observers to allege the US-supplied system has already appeared on the battlefield as of Friday…

How long before Russia takes one or more HIMARS out and how long before Reznikov is visited by a Russian missile?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2022 3:24 utc | 188

@ SwissArmyMan | Jun 25 2022 3:21 utc | 187
I remember these folks are college adminstrative types who only source PBS.
I had National Public Radio on the car radio today and there were good interviews with people on both sides of the abortion question, which is very different from their foreign policy interviews which are always US-side only. So this must come from the government(s): Do what you want on domestic issues but toe the line on foreign affairs (or else).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 25 2022 3:59 utc | 189

Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 25 2022 3:17 utc | 186
“Careful with that nazistic hyperbole and historical revisionism, your odal is showing.”
I’ve looked odal up and still don’t know what it is! You seem deep into Nazi arcana. False piste. But you did inspire me to look up some revisionist stuff which rarely do these days. I read that sort of thing a lot 20 years ago but now only rarely.
Here is an idea of the sort of thing that happened around 1921 I believe:

The author Vladimir Soloukhin revealed that the Chekists were
especially interested in handsome boys and pretty girls. These were the
first to be killed. It was believed that there would be more intellectuals
among attractive people. Attractive youths were therefore killed as a
danger to society. No crime as terrible as this has hitherto been described
in the history of the world.
The terror was co-ordinated by the Chekist functionary Joseph Unsch-
licht. How did they go about the murders? The Jewish Chekists flavoured
murder with various torture methods. In his documentary “The Russia We
Lost”, the director Stanislav Govorukhin told how the priesthood in
Kherson were crucified. The archbishop Andronnikov in Perm was
tortured: his eyes were poked out, his ears and nose were cut off. In
Kharkov the priest Dmitri was undressed. When he tried to make the sign
of the cross, a Chekist cut off his right hand.
Several sources tell how the Chekists in Kharkov placed the victims in a
row and nailed their hands to a table, cut around their wrists with a knife,
poured boiling water over the hands and pulled the skin off. This was
called “pulling off the glove”. In other places, the victim’s head was
placed on an anvil and slowly crushed with a steam hammer. Those due to
undergo the same punishment the next day were forced to watch.
The eyes of church dignitaries were poked out, their tongues were cut
off and they were buried alive. There were Chekists who used to cut open
111the stomachs of their victims, following which they pulled out a length of
the small intestine and nailed it to a telegraph pole and, with a whip,
forced the unlucky victim to run circles around the pole until the whole
intestine had been unravelled and the victim died. The bishop of Voronezh
was boiled alive in a big pot, after which the monks, with revolvers aimed
at their heads, were forced to drink this soup.
Other Chekists crushed the heads of their victims with special head-
screws, or drilled them through with dental tools. The upper part of the
skull was sawn off and the nearest in line was forced to eat the brain,
following which the procedure would be repeated to the end of the line.
The Chekists often arrested whole families and tortured the children
before the eyes of their parents, and the wives before their husbands.
Mikhail Voslensky, a former Soviet functionary, described some of the
cruel methods used by the Chekists in his book “Nomenklatura” /
“Nomenclature” (Stockholm, 1982, p. 321):
“In Kharkov, people were scalped. In Voronezh, the torture victims were
placed in barrels into which nails were hammered so that they stuck out on
the inside, upon which the barrels were set rolling. A pentacle (usually a
five-pointed star formerly used in magic) was burned into the foreheads of
the victims. In Tsaritsyn and Kamyshin, the hands of victims were ampu-
tated with a saw. In Poltava and Kremenchug, the victims were impaled. In
Odessa, they were roasted alive in ovens or ripped to pieces. In Kiev, the
victims were placed in coffins with a decomposing body and buried alive,
only to be dug up again after half an hour.”
Lenin was dissatisfied with these reports and demanded: “Put more
force into the terror!” All of this happened in the provinces. The reader
can try to imagine how people were executed in Moscow.”
Now you know why I only rarely go to revisionist historians. The past – especially the part most often covered up – is a bloody business.
“Sigh, now I’m gonna have to archive that post.”
A little OCD-sounding. I suggest lessening your pomposity a tad. Will live longer if nothing else!
So please archive this post too. Hopefully people will not forget these things which happened almost exactly a century ago.
Am I sharing this to encourage people hate Russians or Jews or whatever? Absolutely not. But you seem to find it reprehensible that I point at that in 1930s and 1940s Europe many people in the West were seriously frightened at the prospect of Communist Russia spearheading an invasion and takeover because their populations might be subject to those sorts of atrocities or the mass starvations which some here believe were just down to bad harvests and inept management but many others – including back then – believed was a result of unbridled cruelty. It matters not on some level what version is the truth; what matters is what many believed, for what we believe seems to us to be the truth.
In many ways the fascism and Nazi movement you fetishize was a direct product of the atrocities perpetrated by the Bolsheviks and their successors in Russia, the horror perpetrated there beyond the ken of most people, even those already traumatized by the incredibly bloody World War I. To overlook this is a little silly. Does this mean that I am in favor of the Nazis? Not necessarily (I’ve never studied them so have no informed opinion). But to assume they just were all psychotics with racist axes to grind for no reason whatsoever (because the atrocities by the communists and their possible future invasion are factors not to be mentioned or known) is a little shallow. IMO.
And you can record that too since you seem to like archiving things!!

Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 25 2022 4:12 utc | 190

psychohistorian | Jun 25 2022 3:24 utc | 188
This is an odd military operation. Ukraine is the only military force apart from Turkey nato have. The rest of Europe what is called military would get blown away if Russia simply farted. The yanks – would they withstand the sort of artillery Russia is raining on the Ukraine forces? And what is there is only a very small percentage of Russian artillery.
Just enough military force to keep a shiny object polished.
To me, the bigger picture is in the transcripts karl posts – / in the Russia China joint statement. The Russian mutual security proposals are now obsolete. There will only be security for Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2022 4:20 utc | 191

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 24 2022 21:28 utc | 111
LOL! I’ve idea what “mask” you imagine I wear, but I do suspect that you must be afflicted with US American, libertarian-ish folkloric anarchy and independence. Which might account for the deranged conclusion that generations of immigrants from Europe have “colonized” their European ancestral-hyphenated homelands (possibly the United Kingdom) for purposes other than contributing remittances to the gross national product of the several tourist traps as well as re-exporting the “russophobia” to Prussia from which the tired and hungry were deported.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 25 2022 4:36 utc | 192

@ Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2022 4:20 utc | 191 who wrote

The Russian mutual security proposals are now obsolete. There will only be security for Russia.

I am not seeing Russia isolate itself from China. What are you seeing to support that? I see China (good cop)/Russia (bad cop) as an operational agreement until I see China use military technology against empire.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 25 2022 4:38 utc | 193

Probably the principal NATO effort in Madrid will be to get the NATO members to buy some military junk.
…from Heritage

Only a handful of NATO members can legitimately say that they are living up to their Article 3 commitment. This is a case where “naming and shaming” should play a role. The U.S. should focus on those nations that do not have a plan to increase defense spending. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 25 2022 4:44 utc | 194

Kle @127, James @ 127
Here is the translation of the same verse from the version of the Tao-te Ching on my bookshelves:
FINE WEAPONS are the instruments of evil.
They are hated by men.
Therefore those who p0ossess Tao turn away from them.
The good ruler when at home honors the left.
Weapons are instruments of evil, not the instruments of a good ruler.
When he uses them unavoidably, he regards calm restraint as the best principle.
Even when he is victorious, he does not regard it as praiseworthy,
For to praise victory is to delight in the slaughter of men.
He who delights in the slaughter of men will not succeed in the empire.
In auspicious affairs, the left is honored.
In inauspicious affairs, the right is honored.
The lieutenant general stands on the left.
The senior general stands on the right.
This is to say that the arrangement follows that of funeral ceremonies.
For the slaughter of the multitude, let us weep with sorrow and grief.
For a victory, let us observe the occasion with funeral ceremonies.
Translation by Wing-Tsit Chan
Worth reading for a third time perhaps for some who forget that many soldiers are fighting and dying and “they know not what they do”.

Posted by: Objective Observer | Jun 25 2022 4:44 utc | 195

Tao-te Ching
https://www.bitchute.com/video/XrYcn8jSkV7s/

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2022 4:53 utc | 196

Posted by: james | Jun 24 2022 22:53 utc | 127

Because many have been killed, it is only right that survivors should mourn for them.
Hence, even a victory is a funeral.

Yesterday, and this morning, as I started my “news” dip, first up with Military Summary channel, and then either MoA, Brian Bertelec at New Atlas, or the other sites often cited here….
The weight of the death and carnage in Ukraine right now is weighing heavy on my soul.
Probably all wars are senseless. But this one is truly evil. I’m not a subscriber to a brand of religion. But the biblical “brother against brother”. … Russians fighting Ukrainians. Ukrainians fighting Russians. That the Dark Force was able to orchestrate this. It’s incomprehensible. Yet here we are.
Today, I just feel my soul weep. All day I am thinking about those young Ukrainian men .. youths… dying this week.
The war was pointless from Day Zero. But now, with the cauldrons….totally mindless…To be young. And throw your life away for absolutely nothing.
And for every man dead.. a mother. And maybe a wife and children. Everyone devastated by this.
I don’t know which I despise more. The Evil that conjured this. Or the Stupidity that so willingly subscribed.
Now that we are here. I want Ukraine destroyed so that it can never again be used as a tool.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 25 2022 5:15 utc | 197

Melaleuca | Jun 25 2022 5:15 utc | 197
I am anglo but better is that the anglo world be destroyed so it can never again use others as tools.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 25 2022 5:32 utc | 198

Cramer is a genius in his own right. If you inverted everything he said and did, you’d have beat the S&P by +40% YTD. (Ref: Short Cramer Index)

Posted by: Drive-by Commenting | Jun 25 2022 6:11 utc | 199

U.S.-Led Alliance Faces Frustration, and Pain of its Own, Over Russia Sanctions
Vladimir V. Putin is making gains in his war on Ukraine while the United States and its allies struggle with soaring energy prices and inflation. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/24/us/politics/russia-ukraine-biden-sanctions.html
WASHINGTON — Four months into the war in Ukraine, the countries aligned against Russia face growing economic pain even as sanctions and energy embargoes are showing little impact on Russian President Vladimir V. Putin’s military campaign or his political standing at home.
U.S. officials vowed that Russia’s financial system would be battered if it attacked Ukraine, and President Biden boasted in March that sanctions were “crushing the Russian economy” and that “the ruble is reduced to rubble.” But Russian oil revenues have set records as crude prices surge. And after plunging in February, the ruble hit a seven-year high against the dollar this week.

Shows the lack of understanding the Russians…

Posted by: ostro | Jun 25 2022 6:16 utc | 200