Another Zelensky Lie Debunked - White House Says Ukraine Must Give Up Territory
Yesterday I mentioned the burning shopping center in Kremenchuk, Ukraine, of which the Ukrainian president Zelensky falsely claimed that thousand people had been inside.
I asked:
Satellite pictures show that the shopping center is right next to the large Kredmash machine plant. Was that the real target of the attack with the shopping center being an unintended casualty?
It has now been confirmed that the answer to my question is 'yes'.
Today's report on the war by the Russian Defense Ministry says:
On June 27, in Kremenchug (Poltava region), Russian Aerospace Forces launched a high-precision air attack at hangars with armament and munitions delivered by USA and European countries at Kremenchug road machinery plant.High-precision attack has resulted in the neutralisation of west-manufactured armament and munitions concentrated at the storage area for being delivered to Ukrainian group of troops in Donbass.
Detonation of the storaged munitions caused a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the facilities of the plant.
Ahhh - "don't trust the Russians!" you say. Well, don't trust anyone I say, just scrutinize the facts.
The Ukrainians have published surveillance video from a park catching the moments of the two explosions. A large flash appears and people are running away as some debris falls down.
The park is around an artificial lake with an island in the middle that can be reached by a bridge. There is a small round building on the island.
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Here is a Google satellite view of the whole scene.
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The light gray shopping center roof can be seen south of the large Kredmash machine plant in the center. The small park from which the surveillance videos come is directly north of it. Google has marked it in green as some special recreational space. The factory has direct rail access at its southern side with several rail tracks for loading and unloading machinery. Rail access makes it an ideal space for preparing or repairing heavy weapons. It seems that the railway area was one of the two targets.
Still not convinced? Well, here is video from a Ukrainian TV station taken on the factory grounds. It is showing a crater and the debris of the factory. The areas where it was hit are pretty much destroyed.
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According to the Ukrainian emergence services the attack has caused the death of 16 people and wounded 59. So most of Zelensky's 'thousand' people inside the shopping center must have either survived or never existed at all with the later being the more likely case.
The shopping center was obviously as empty as its large empty parking space I mentioned yesterday. It somehow came on fire after the factory next door was bombed. Those who died were most likely soldiers or factory workers who were preparing 'western' weapons for delivery to the front.
Zelensky's lie has been debunked just as the other horror fictions he has told about Russians.
Meanwhile the White House is preparing for a retreat from Ukraine. CNN headlines:
Biden officials privately doubt that Ukraine can win back all of its territory
The piece is by the 'deranged conspiracy theorist and scandal plagued CIA propagandist' Natasha Bertrand. That makes it an official administration position.
(CNN) - White House officials are losing confidence that Ukraine will ever be able to take back all of the land it has lost to Russia over the past four months of war, US officials told CNN, even with the heavier and more sophisticated weaponry the US and its allies plan to send.
Advisers to President Joe Biden have begun debating internally how and whether Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky should shift his definition of a Ukrainian "victory" -- adjusting for the possibility that his country has shrunk irreversibly.
US officials emphasized to CNN that this more pessimistic assessment does not mean the US plans to pressure Ukraine into making any formal territorial concessions to Russia in order to end the war. There is also hope that Ukrainian forces will be able to take back significant chunks of territory in a likely counteroffensive later this year.
That 'counteroffensive later this year' seems very unlikely to me. When the Russian forces see any buildup for one they will destroy it before it can take off.
The Ukraine will not regain any of the territory that the Russians do not want it to regain. It isn't in the position to do so militarily nor through negotiations. It will simply have to accept defeat and give up on the east and south and accept the loss of the source of 70-80% of its former GDP.
All this was completely foreseeable since the very first day of the war.
Posted by b on June 28, 2022 at 14:30 UTC | Permalink
next page »People with far more commonsense than me posed a simple question: if it is a shopping mall then like all shopping malls around the world there will be shoppers who will post - for good or for ill - their opinion of how good or bad their experience was.
So they went out and looked and, sure enough, you can find online rating on a zero-to-five-star scale for that shopping centre.
All of those reviews - all of them - ceased at the end of February of this year i.e. when Russia launched this SMO.
The reasonable conclusion is that the moment this war began that shopping mall was closed and its floor space turned over to the use of the Kredmash machine plant.
A 1,000 shoppers were inside that building? Bulls**t.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jun 28 2022 14:41 utc | 2
From Roscosmos through Intel Slava Z:
🇷🇺❗Warning: Roscosmos releases satellite imagery of decision centers ahead of NATO summit
While at the upcoming summit of the alliance, representatives of 30 participating countries and their sympathizers will declare Russia the number one evil, Roskosmos publishes entertaining satellite images - those same "decision centers", well, coordinates, just in case😉
⠀⠀🇺🇸 38.897542, -77.036505
⠀⠀🇺🇸 38.870960, -77.055935
⠀⠀🇬🇧 51.503049, -0.127727
⠀⠀🇫🇷 48.870433, 2.316842
⠀⠀🇩🇪 52.519903, 13.368921
⠀⠀🇧🇪 50.879986, 4.425771
[The post had attached satellite photos of certain complexes of importance in Madrid, Washington, London, Paris, Brussels and Berlin; with a Roscosmos 2022 copyright notice.
Interestingly enough, the coordinates for the object in Madrid are missing]
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 12:33 utc | 238
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 14:56 utc | 3
Thanks @b for the link to the earlier post.
There are some VERY choice comments. And don't mean cities taken over / not taken over, fog of war is real, and certainly there were all kinds of reports everywhere.
But for example, duration of it. Three days is one prediction. :)
Also the scope of 'SMO'. Poland gets mentioned several times, even D.C.
Some people even still comment using those same handles. Go figure!
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 28 2022 15:07 utc | 5
awful to see machines of death active in populated areas. even if not one soul killed or wounded, the property destruction alone is terrible. now ukraine’s people and businesses have one fewer large business facility to use, if normalcy can ever return. i will not join-in the rah-rah and bro high-fives about this attack or any others. there are those who like to watch things die from a good safe distance, but not me. so much cold war thinking here. its no better than the cold war thinking of the US state dept warmongers and perverts.
Posted by: Patrick Constantine | Jun 28 2022 15:30 utc | 6
To be clear about #3
The coordinates were the Pentagon, White House, and Madrid, Brussels, and Paris. Can't remember if I saw the Madrid coordinates or not but looked like head of government residences + NATO HQ.
Posted by: Sam | Jun 28 2022 15:33 utc | 7
If we ever meet we will b the best of friends , how yr opinion about everything is in unison with mine 🙈
Posted by: All4love | Jun 28 2022 15:35 utc | 8
I hate to say it but it seems very much like all over the place, google maps comments basically stopped round about 4 month ago. People may have better things to do, plus there probably aren't that many tourists left.
Posted by: Bogus | Jun 28 2022 15:41 utc | 9
The public's continued gullibility when repeatedly faced with clear evidence contrary to the fantasies they have been told is a wonderment.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 28 2022 15:42 utc | 10
Posted by: Patrick Constantine | Jun 28 2022 15:30 utc | 6
https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1541702582430797824?cxt=HHwWgMC48ZKVneUqAAAA
This person has a point; obviously all civilian deaths are tragic & shouldn't happen, but the claimed UKR death toll in Kremenchug is lower than when the AFU hit downtown Donetsk with a ballistic missile for no reason & killed 23 people, including women & children, on March 14th
And your post about this incident [March 14th] can be found where?
Posted by: Seer | Jun 28 2022 15:42 utc | 11
A sub head in the CNN article by "Natasha ne nasha" -not our Natasha-
The hunt for Soviet-era weaponry
Which brings us to the repeated ad nauseam jingle about the west technology. We’re talking about thirty one years old equipment the freshest batches and still searching for it. Dammed Gorbachov, burn in hell Yeltsyn, they gave away the shop, a real powerhouse any way you look at it so as to legalize their possessions, soviet elite had a lot of perks no doubt about it, but they wanted to legalize it, to inherit it, to trade it, to be just like their western counterparts, seventy years of common work destroyed for idiots like Raisa, the vain Gorby wife, ignorant except for shopping. I was a witness of soviet and US technology working, and yes, soviet was heavy, crude, no fancy labels or instructions, no packaging, no marketing but it worked, boy did it ever, still does.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 28 2022 15:44 utc | 12
B,
Are RT Links Cancelled now?
RT Link stated that:
Missiles hit the Plant;
Ammo Secondaries caused the Fire in the Shopping Ctr next door;
Shopping Ctr wasn't open at the time;
Shopping Ctr announced they were remaining open during Air Raid Alarms - which is a Crime according to the Local Mayor.
Posted by: IronForge | Jun 28 2022 15:46 utc | 13
Posted by: IronForge | Jun 28 2022 15:48 utc | 14
Posted by: IronForge | Jun 28 2022 15:50 utc | 15
It seems that on Google it even said Permanently Closed for months, until today, by noon it was changed to Open :D
https://t.me/sputnik/7567?comment=346589
By the way, the Google satellite images come from Maxar, the same Pentagon-associated company that provided the manipulated Bucha images, that were wrongly dated (mid-March instead of April 1).
Posted by: Nico | Jun 28 2022 15:50 utc | 16
BASF, the German industrial giant, publicly "announced" a couple of days ago that if they couldn't get all the gas they need they will be "forced" to cease operations at their major complex which covers 10 sq kilometers and includes 200 sites. The early hardball scramble is beginning. This is the real story of the G7 love fest in Madrid. They know Germany cannot weather the coming winter. Anyway its sliced, they won't have enough gas to keep their industries operating and their residential population warm at the same time. They get to choose: shutter industry, with the resulting jump in unemployment, loss of tax revenue and increased social welfare payments, not to mention the increase in debt defaults on mortgages, etc, thereby squeezing their banks, all in a time of driving inflation. It simply means a dramatic upsurge in social unrest if they pick that option. The other option, rationing supply to the people, may be even worse. It won't take many old ladies freezing to death in unheated homes to have social unrest explode. Either way disaster for Scholtz and the crowd awaits. The G7 gang can see it coming. They know Germany will fold, and if Germany folds, so does NATO and the EU. The group hugs in Madrid are for the cameras. What can they do - Russia is winning both militarily and economically and keeps slowly decreasing the flow of gas and increasing the price. "Look united! Sound tough!" But Winter beckons.
Posted by: Hoggy | Jun 28 2022 15:51 utc | 17
Good work B.
As for the future NATO will fight for Odessa. Without it they can be shut out. With it they can stir endless sh*t.
Posted by: Theophilus | Jun 28 2022 15:51 utc | 18
www_rt_com/russia/557981-ukraine-mall-air-alert/
Replace "_" with "."
Posted by: IronForge | Jun 28 2022 15:51 utc | 19
To continue the line of the first comment above about the shopping mall: there are smart phones all over the place and Ukraine is awash with them. If a thousand people were at the shopping mall when it was attacked I would imagine that there would be a lot of videos posted to the internet showing the immediate effects of the attack - people running from the building, bodies lying about, cars driving off, the early stages of the fire, and so on. I haven't seen any such videos. Are there any?
Posted by: Begemot | Jun 28 2022 15:52 utc | 20
"The shopping center was obviously as empty as its large empty parking space ..."
Google maps makes it clear - Amstor Амстор shopping mall
Link to Google Maps
Whereas earlier today the google page was advising - no open hours as the Mall was "Permanently closed" in bold red !!!
Now, 12 hours later, Google's page has changed AS IF it was a functioning mall with normal Opening Hours - how convenient.
After a day of mass media disinformation / propaganda / falsehoods the Meme has been a success and cannot be corrected in people's minds. The damage has been done, the belief implanted, the opinions reinforced again. Journalists believe their own lies.
'They' will now move on to the next False Flag / the next False accusation - rinse - repeat.
With Julian Assange in prison, Wikileaks and Justice systems neutered, with compliant / incompetent Journalists all over the world and the corrupt political systems that run them ... Russia, China, MoA, other alt media cannot compete against this Global War Propaganda Machine.
It's a 'WMD in Iraq' moment all over again. 'They' create reality out of thin air. There is nothing anyone can do about it short of winning a kinetic war and toppling western governments across the world. Not going to happen. Sorry.
But do keep telling the truth and sharing the real facts anyway.
Posted by: Ned | Jun 28 2022 15:55 utc | 21
Posted by: Hoggy | Jun 28 2022 15:51 utc | 17
The solution to such a complex situation is very simple, turn on the NS2 tab, just like that. But... el amigo americano, americano, americano....
Posted by: Paco | Jun 28 2022 15:58 utc | 22
@13
"Shopping Ctr announced they were remaining open during Air Raid Alarms - which is a Crime according to the Local Mayor."
I don't believe that. I think that announcement was made up now in order to imply that the shopping center was open these days in the first place.
But it seems it already closed 4 months ago.
Posted by: Nico | Jun 28 2022 15:59 utc | 23
Come on, nothing new... The Empire of LIES really is the U.S.A, and if you somehow connected or being its "BUNNY OF THE WEEK"... there you go !!!
Here's another lesson of American media's trustworthiness, ha,ha or lol: 32 years of 'endless' Chinese Financial Doom:
https://twitter.censors.us/US_China_Menu/status/1541652202598453248#m
From Forbes, FT to sloppy, slimy Zero Hedge. And almost all of them posted positive economic reviews ONE WEEK before the American Financial Crisis savaged the economy of the world in 2008, and made some fun of those few ones who got it right and labelled then 'conspirators'!!
Posted by: MD | Jun 28 2022 16:02 utc | 24
Scrutinizing the facts ...
The Whitehouse has released a statement by National Security Adviser Sullivan on the way to the NATO summit.
...The other area where we expect to see a significant, indeed historic, set of deliverables is on the issue of force posture. The President said before the war started that if Putin invaded Ukraine, the United States and NATO would enhance its force posture on the eastern flank, not just for the duration of the crisis, but to address the long-term change in the strategic reality that that would present.
And in this summit, you will see the Alliance follow through on that commitment and the United States follow through on that commitment. You’ll see a number of countries making commitments to increase their defense contributions to the eastern flank of the Alliance, with a special emphasis on the Balkan — the Baltics, but also other eastern flank allies as well.
...
Posted by: too scents | Jun 28 2022 16:05 utc | 25
Even more suspicious is the fact that the mayor claims the mall changed its policy just last Thursday. I don't believe in such a coincidence for a minute...
From the RT link:
"The mayor posted a screenshot of what he claimed to be the official social media account of the outlet, which informed that it would remain open during alert periods. The policy change took effect last Thursday, according to the timestamp."
Posted by: Nico | Jun 28 2022 16:06 utc | 26
The pictures in the AP story clearly show a big box building--with a single flat roof. The MOD claims several "high precision" weapons were fired. Two explosions---Of course the MOD will claim both hit the intended target--saying it is true does not make it so. Maybe it is, maybe not--does not matter.
Did Putins army advance another 7km today? The distance between Severodonetsk, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhya, Zaporizhzhya Oblast is 278 kilometers (173 miles). At the 7km or less a day Putin's army has advanced that looks like they reach the banks of the Dnieper at Zaporizhzhya sometime in mid-August. It will be nearly October before they will be prepared to advance into western Ukraine--and oh yeah, what to do about Kharkiv and Odessa. It took a month each to level Mariupol and Severodontsk.
There will be a de-facto ceasefire in mid-August early September as both sides bulk up for the winter slaughter.
I call it Putin's army for the same reason that Putin calls this war a "special military operation". He is only (so he says) deploying "professional" contract troops in his "special military operation". To deploy regular conscripts outside the borders of the Russian Federation would require the Duma to take action--as in a declaration of war. But Russia is a Super-Power just like the US and does not need full scale war mobilization to destroy shithole countries.
Posted by: wobblie | Jun 28 2022 16:13 utc | 27
Quoted by our host: "...pressure Ukraine into making any formal territorial concessions to Russia in order to end the war."
No amount of territorial concessions by the Ukraine will end the war. Russia is not fighting for territory. Lebensraum is not why the Russians are there. This war cannot end until the belligerents (NATO) have it beaten into their thick skulls what Russia is actually fighting for.
It is a sign of how infantile and intellectually stunted the western Establishment is that they think some territory will satisfy Russia. It is remarkable that even after the Russians have repeatedly spelled out in the simplest possible terms what the problem here is that nobody in power in the West gets it and they still think it is about territory.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 16:21 utc | 28
Elensky will define success as making it to his palazzo in Miami, still a centimillionaire. A lot of people think he'd be more useful as a martyr.
Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Jun 28 2022 16:25 utc | 29
Dont trust the western homoglobo partners!
Homopedo Macron has published his phone conversion with Putin few days before begining of SMO.
Another try to denounce putin.
Listening to the conversation has only reinforced my belief that homopedo Macron is a puppet of homoglobo soros and schwab.
While Putin is freely speaking without advisors his interlocutor has been always interrupted by advisors and adjusted his words. The european politicians are such braindamaged puppets.
Posted by: Chessmaster | Jun 28 2022 16:25 utc | 30
@ William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 16:21 utc | 28 who wrote
"
It is remarkable that even after the Russians have repeatedly spelled out in the simplest possible terms what the problem here is that nobody in power in the West gets it and they still think it is about territory.
"
Look at the number of commenters here that spout the same BS about the SMO being about territory and not removing the bully from the schoolyard.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 28 2022 16:27 utc | 31
I was a contractor building stores in malls for 30 years.
The lack of cars around the mall is the first clue that it wasn't operating at the time. Normally shoppers park as close as possible to the mall entrances and delivery trucks and contractors are competing for any allowable space adjacent to the fire lanes around the mall. Mall security is constantly patrolling the fire lanes kicking out offending drivers. I know this is the Ukraine however people are people and they act the same all over the world.
The second are the ammount of flames produced by the mall fire. Malls all over the world have sprinkler systems, fire separations and are built with materials that have a low flame spread rating. The sprinkler systems are always fully charged with water so that even if the missile took out the main the sprinklers would still put out fires ignited by the blast. Burning contents produces a smoky fire with little flame. This fire looks like something you would see at a lumber yard or oil refinery. It look like the contents of this mall were extremely flammable.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Jun 28 2022 16:28 utc | 32
A new world order has begun.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2022 9:12 utc | 61
From that earlier article.
Too scents nailed it!!
Posted by: Scorpion | Jun 28 2022 16:32 utc | 33
Posted by: wobblie | Jun 28 2022 16:13 utc | 27
With a cristal ball like yours you must be a very requested consultant.
"But Russia is a Super-Power just like the US and does not need full scale war mobilization to destroy shithole countries."
There's a couple of mistakes in that assertion, Russia is not a super power like the US, according to Obomer hardly makes it to a regional one, but the biggest mistake, Ukraine is no shithole country like Grenada, Panama, Yemen and... a long list. It would have been interesting to see them fighting the US, night flights full of coffins with the star spangled would have been constant, it was a Soviet republic, a part of Russia, and as such it would have kicked uncle Sam's ass just like it is being kicked right now by proxy since fighting with high heels is kind of tricky if one has to tread the rich black Ukrainian earth.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 28 2022 16:34 utc | 34
thanks b... congrats on calling this event correctly... the rt article does give more details...
@ William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 16:21 utc | 28
i agree william.. thanks for articulating a viewpoint that i share....
please ignore the riff raff - joe6pack and wobblie.... i skip over their posts at this point... stupid shit... they can go talk to joe tzu..
Posted by: james | Jun 28 2022 16:35 utc | 35
@wobblie | Jun 28 2022 16:13 utc | 27
You love lying and trolling, do you?
There is a video from the park, 600m northeast of the shopping center. It shows the impact, smoke rising and clouding the sun, debris falling into the lake, people running though obviously unharmed. Where is the debris at the mall parking lot?
Posted by: aquadraht | Jun 28 2022 16:37 utc | 36
Posted by: HB_Norica | Jun 28 2022 16:28 utc | 32
The second are the ammount of flames produced by the mall fire. Malls all over the world have sprinkler systems, fire separations and are built with materials that have a low flame spread rating. The sprinkler systems are always fully charged with water so that even if the missile took out the main the sprinklers would still put out fires ignited by the blast. Burning contents produces a smoky fire with little flame. This fire looks like something you would see at a lumber yard or oil refinery. It look like the contents of this mall were extremely flammable.
But keep in mind that this is Ukraine, one of the most corrupt countries on earth. Assuming that fire systems were up-to-par is a big ask.
Someone (somewhere) noted that fuel shortages could (partly) account for a low number of vehicles. I didn't look/check, but if the vehicles that were in the parking lot weren't close to the mall building itself then, yes, this would tend to support the notion that the mall was closed: people will park as close to the building/mall as possible.
Debris from the north(?) side of the mall, nearest the factory, should provide better information.
Posted by: Seer | Jun 28 2022 16:41 utc | 37
US has just thrown its latest hi tech boomerang. Sanction Russian gold. Well worth buying some actual gold now. Paper gold will be worth no more than US toilet paper that currently masquerades as currency.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2022 16:49 utc | 38
@Begemot #20
I would imagine that there would be a lot of videos posted to the internet showing the immediate effects of the attack - people running from the building, bodies lying about, cars driving off, the early stages of the fire, and so on. I haven't seen any such videos. Are there any?
There are videos aired on Western media supposedly from inside the burning building but it doesn't exactly demonstrate either that it is the purported location or that the person taking the video is a civilian shopper or somebody who entered after it caught fire or industrial/military staff.
The sheer weight of lies the Zelensky regime and Western media have told makes it impossible to trust anything.
Posted by: Altai | Jun 28 2022 16:49 utc | 39
It was used for military purposes
The director of the Kredmash plant in Kremenchuk confirmed that the Russian Armed Forces had attacked their enterprise. It was hit by at least one rocket, the director said, then the fire spread to the shopping center, which was located nearby, writes Readovka.
https://readovka.news/news/102452
Posted by: Carlsson on the roof | Jun 28 2022 17:00 utc | 40
Prediction:
Russia will take Odessa; Moldova will be offered Black Sea access in exchange for Transnistria.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Jun 28 2022 17:01 utc | 41
German business is now intervening more clearly
Today, the first reliable or more comprehensive study on the "Consequences of a supply interruption of Russian gas for the
German industry" was published by the Bavarian Business Association (vbw).
The association emphasizes:
"A supply stop would lead to massive damage along the entire value chain - there would be the threat of short-time working across the board, unemployment and a permanent loss of our industrial structures. [...]
Overall, it is clear that a supply freeze would lead to a recession, with all the consequences this would have for employment and social cohesion in our country. We therefore urge that a natural gas embargo be avoided wherever possible."
They forecast possible losses in gross value added totaling 193 billion euros or 12.7% of the GVA generated in Germany in a six-month period, i.e. a total of almost 400 billion euros in one year.
With regard to jobs, page 35 of the study, which is available as a PDF, states:
"Analogously to the value creation effects, the calculations can be differentiated for the direct, upstream and downstream sectors. Accordingly, around 1.2 million jobs are potentially affected by a supply disruption. For the upstream industries, the calculated figure is also a good 1.2 million jobs. With around 3.2 million jobs potentially affected, the downstream sectors are the most affected, in line with the value creation effects. In total, around 5.6 million jobs depend directly, upstream or downstream on the value added that is (temporarily) lost due to supply interruptions." Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
So the best way to prevent further militarization of Germany, or at least to make it more difficult, would be to cut off the supply of raw materials, especially gas.
I'm curious to see how our government is going to solve this.
But probably, unfortunately, everything has to be in shambles here again before the larger part of the population wakes up.
On July 2, a demonstration supported by many organizations will take place in Berlin under the motto "We will not pay for your wars". But a broad, authoritative resistance will probably still need time, if at all.
Maybe the old BRECHT will help: "Erst kommt das Fressen und dann kommt die Moral".
Posted by: SW (also Berlin) | Jun 28 2022 17:16 utc | 42
William Gruff @28--
Here's the latest offer from Russia as reported by TASS, "Hostilities to end if Kiev orders nationalists to lay down weapons — Kremlin spokesman"
Hostilities in Ukraine may end "before the end of today," if Kiev orders the nationalists to lay down their weapons, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters Tuesday."The Ukrainian side can end all this before the end of this day; an order is necessary for the nationalist units to lay down their weapons, an order is necessary for the Ukrainian military to lay down their weapons; and they must fulfill all Russia’s demands. Then everything will be over before the day ends," the spokesman said, commenting on Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky’s remark that he would like to end the hostilities before the cold comes.
When I saw this item I immediately recalled your remark about Z's need to have all the Nazis killed off so he can survive, meaning there's no way he can make such an order Peskov suggests and remain alive.
Meanwhile, this TASS item reports on a comment Lavrov made at a presser today, "Russia couldn’t care less about Zelensky attending G20 summit":
Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky is happy to address any forum, but Russia couldn’t care less about whether he will attend the upcoming G20 summit in Indonesia or not, Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Tuesday."Zelensky is an indispensable part of any gathering now," Lavrov told a news conference after meeting with colleagues from the Caspian countries.
"Apparently, in the intervals between receiving instructions from Washington, he is happy to deliver tearful speeches whatever the format, of a gathering might be".
"Russia couldn’t care less" about whether he is somewhere in Bali. "But we have always respected host countries’ actions," the minister said.
Lavrov's humor is always appreciated. MFA has yet to post a transcript of the presser. It's been announced Putin will be in Bali for the G-20. Perhaps Z will go there and beg for an audience, or perhaps to surrender himself, although I very much doubt his minders would allow any such meeting.
@ Patrick Constantine | Jun 28 2022 15:30 utc | 6
There are indeed people cheerleading death and destruction, the old theme that war is a manly test of courage, that sort of thing. Then there are the Russophobes who want to see Eastern Europeans killing each other. Bizarre in an age when even the most captured of media can't hide that war is a squalid tragedy. Yet, some tragedies are inevitable, or are the lesser tragedy.
For some of us, though, we're watching the Empire of Lies run aground. We tax mules forced to finance that Empire can be forgiven for a bit of satisfaction. And the faint hope that constant and inevitable failure might get someone to get them out of public office. Faint, yes...
This isn't America attacking Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy. This is the American Empire. And those of us who love America hate the Empire.
Posted by: jhill | Jun 28 2022 17:18 utc | 44
Google maps makes it clear - Amstor Амстор shopping mallPosted by: Ned | Jun 28 2022 15:55 utc | 21
Амстор declared bankruptcy in 2019
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstor
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jun 28 2022 17:22 utc | 45
SW (also Berlin) @42--
Thanks very much for that report as it answers the question I asked about job losses yesterday. It's hard to imagine Germans being as ignorant as portrayed about what a 100% gas embargo would do to them and their nation.
Tragic . We are watching the death throes of country 404.
Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jun 28 2022 17:35 utc | 47
Bloomberg reports:
As G-7 Talks Price Caps, Russian Oil Gets More Expensive
Russia is getting higher prices for its oil as strong demand in Asia undermines western powers’ efforts to curb revenues to Moscow’s war machine.The Group of Seven leaders agreed on Tuesday that they want ministers to urgently evaluate how the price of Russian oil can be curbed to limit the energy proceeds that the Kremlin uses to finance its conflict in Ukraine. The main idea floated over the past few weeks has been some kind of cap.
But Russian government data show that the actual price of the nation’s flagship Urals grade has appreciated relative to the international benchmark Brent. It’s a reminder that underlying demand -- mostly from countries that would have to enforce any price cap -- has held up.
...
Also, water is wet.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 28 2022 17:37 utc | 48
Zelensky an essential part of any gathering? How dare Lavrov say that? Where are Bono and Greta going to go?
Posted by: Castor&Pollux | Jun 28 2022 17:40 utc | 49
@PeterAU1 #38
Not the least bit clear to me.
Unlike oil, fertilizers or food - nobody needs gold to survive.
And historically gold doesn't do great in rising interest rate environments.
Mercouris also correctly noted that Russia hasn't really sold gold as a major income source for years - preferring instead to have the CBR buy Russian domestic production, and furthermore that the overall trend is for the West to sell gold even as the East buys it (China, India etc).
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 28 2022 17:50 utc | 50
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 14:56 utc | 3
Very disappointing. Silly and shallow saber-rattling. From an agency that has no foreign-affairs respoonsibility.
I would hope the Russians understand where the real power lies.
Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 28 2022 18:00 utc | 51
In the video from the park we can see a row of trees on the right and two larger darker trees in the background. The explosion occurs behind the left dark tree. I’ve marked it here: image 1.
If we now look at a satellite map of the area, we can draw a line through the gazebo and the tree to show possible locations of the explosion: image 2.
The line does not pass through the Amstor mall, but it does pass through Kredmash buildings.
Posted by: S | Jun 28 2022 18:03 utc | 52
"It is a sign of how infantile and intellectually stunted the western Establishment is that they think some territory will satisfy Russia."
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 16:21 utc | 28
Quite true, but what to say about many a barfly here who still discuss what part of Ukraine carcass will be left for the West to gobble up. It seems that it is very difficult for people to understand that a new Ukraine (if the name is retained) will be run by pro-Russian government and nothing will be left for the West.
Posted by: Pagan | Jun 28 2022 18:04 utc | 53
William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 16:21 utc | 28
I know you're really good on Marx, but have you considered a touch of Mauss? US political drama, like that of many other primitive hunting societies which managed to parlay a lucky break into a permanent class system, centers on access to the right to behave altruistically. Here Western officials can be seen setting up a story arc that features their "generous" offering of a land gift, which instead of eliciting reciprocal action of the sort the West values, will be refused due to disinterest in land, disinterest in that "club of values", and a host of other reasons. That refusal will be inflated into ingratitude, insult and permission for escalation.
I hope you don't actually think that Western ruling classes or intelligentsia speak from the heart, because I'd have to question whether you were old enough to drink. :)
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Jun 28 2022 18:05 utc | 54
Posted by: james | Jun 28 2022 16:35 utc | 35
When riff-raff post
YOU fart in their direction
Joe Tzu
Posted by: Sushi | Jun 28 2022 18:05 utc | 55
I now see that psychohistorian (31) already posted a similar note.
Posted by: Pagan | Jun 28 2022 18:06 utc | 56
please ignore the riff raff - joe6pack and wobblie.... i skip over their posts at this point... stupid shit... they can go talk to joe tzu..
Posted by: james | Jun 28 2022 16:35 utc | 35
I hope your not talking about me. I agree with b and links I've left also agree with this site. As Amerikan I'm pro Russian
Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 28 2022 18:07 utc | 57
Just like the great film “Bienvenido Mr. Marshall”, when a US president comes to Spain they do not leave empty handed, this time around besides forcing us to host more war ships in the strategically important base of Rota -just as important as Gibraltar- Biden gave instructions to keep on serving US interests in North Africa and Latin America, against our national interest. The coterie of proud functionaries, especially the new and ambitious bilderberger our foreign Minister Albares, plus the Bourbon Felipe happily received the instructions needed to not abandon ship now the the empire is sinking.
Posted by: Paco | Jun 28 2022 18:10 utc | 58
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 28 2022 17:50 utc | 50
However, industrial uses for gold in manufacturing are ubiquitous. So. G7 family of morons are setting up supply chain *flation SNAFU for "advanced democracies" which "resource-rich," developing producers can exploit by simply diverting metric tonnes to buyers who don't "self-sanction."
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 28 2022 18:10 utc | 59
All western MSM had taken off "Kremenchuk" stuff from the front page. When some "reports" that Zelensky says, it is absolutely utter BS!
Posted by: ostro | Jun 28 2022 18:18 utc | 60
Actually, even when the demented Joe or BoJo or Macron or the Wurst says something, it is utter Bs!
Posted by: ostro | Jun 28 2022 18:19 utc | 62
@ Sushi | Jun 28 2022 18:05 utc | 55
thanks sushi!!
@ jo6pac | Jun 28 2022 18:07 utc | 57
i was referring to the post @ 5 - by joe6pack... handle adjustment maybe... cheers..
Posted by: james | Jun 28 2022 18:20 utc | 63
@karlof1/46
You're welcome. I saw your question the other day, too. But so far there have only been estimates without substance. I am also very interested in the answer. It does not look good. And to the imagination....
I (and many of my acquaintances, friends, etc.) still can't believe what our politicians are doing. I didn't vote for any of them. But ignorance is one of the "virtues" of a "good and real" German as history teaches us. I am rather pessimistic, at least since the delivery of (heavy) weapons.
Kind regards and thanks for your great contributions here
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Posted by: SW (also Berlin) | Jun 28 2022 18:21 utc | 64
Also, water is wet.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 28 2022 17:37 utc | 48
-----------------------
Well, actually water is never wet, it is the skin that gets wet. There are enough nations in the Global South that wants the West broken...
Posted by: ostro | Jun 28 2022 18:22 utc | 65
Yeah, Right | Jun 28 2022 14:41 utc | 2
___
Very insightful, simple, and compelling --- case closed. Thanks.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jun 28 2022 18:22 utc | 66
BTW, "the bank of banks", BIS, announces Renminbi Liquidity Arrangement for "resource-rich" po' peeps fleeing G7-brand Blue-Pacific-IPEF-Global Gateway "structural adjustment," USD *flation, UST asset forfeiture, NATO sanctions, and IMF pay-day loans.
Each participating central bank contributes a minimum of RMB 15B or US dollar equivalent [2.23B a/o 28.06.22], in RMB or USD, placed with the BIS, creating a reserve pool... The reserve pooling provides additional features as participating central banks would not only be able to draw down on their contributions, but would also gain access to additional funding through a collateralised liquidity window operated by the BIS up to an amount equivalent to the central bank's share of the collateralised liquidity window.Which CBs paid in ground floor capital? APEC anchor states: CN, CN-hk, SG, CL, ID, MY (ex CN-tw, RU, VN, TH, PH, MX, CL, BN, PG, KR; US, AU, JP, NZ, CA)
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 28 2022 18:22 utc | 67
uk Defence Secretary Ben Wallace called for higher spending on the Armed Forces so that Britain could be ready to ... wait for it ... fight Vladimir Putin ‘directly’...Ben joins head honcho UK General Pat in making another IDIOTIC remark! I despair for Britain.
Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Jun 28 2022 18:27 utc | 68
jo6pac @57
Indeed, who would want to discuss things with people who don't agree with them 100%?
Much easier to spout any old BS, and nod complacently to each other :' Boy, you are smart.' reply:'Indeed, so are you!'.
But then again, there might be some strangers in a bar, who point out the mistakes, wishful thinking and so on. Like I did in post @ 5.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 28 2022 18:29 utc | 69
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 28 2022 18:22 utc | 67
So the US is finally getting out of the dollar?
Long past time.
Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 28 2022 18:29 utc | 70
Very concerning if Google changed those operating hours to open but more likely someone with access to the shopping center account changed it
Posted by: GS | Jun 28 2022 18:30 utc | 71
c1ue | Jun 28 2022 17:50 utc | 50
The question is - what are we in the west heading into. Recession or total collapse? Historically, high value commodities - noble metals, gems ect become currency in time of war or other self or outside afflicted poverty.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 28 2022 18:32 utc | 72
Joe6pack | Jun 28 2022 18:29 utc | 69
Neoliberal epistemology is a mental illness.
https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/Mirowski-Hell-is-Truth-Seen-Too-Late.pdf
Posted by: sippy the shot glass | Jun 28 2022 18:37 utc | 73
@ Pagan | Jun 28 2022 18:04 utc | 53
You can think whatever you like, I'm still predicting that the RF is focused on liberation rather than occupation.
Posted by: MarkU | Jun 28 2022 18:38 utc | 74
@jhill, #44
This isn't America attacking Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy. This is the American Empire. And those of us who love America hate the Empire.
Well said!!!!
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Jun 28 2022 18:39 utc | 75
Posted by: too scents | Jun 28 2022 17:37 utc | 48
"Price cap" is a euphemism for price-fixing and bid-rigging. These monopolistic practices by corporations--alone or in concert--are crimes, codified in US Sherman and Clayton Acts. So I'm not even surprised that Joe Tzu forgot that in joining with the EC's futile enterprise, he has suborned racketeering by the US federal government.
Also here is wunderkind Jake caught in the act of suppressing evidence
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 28 2022 18:45 utc | 76
@Figleaf23 #41:
Prediction:
Russia will take Odessa; Moldova will be offered Black Sea access in exchange for Transnistria.
Moldova already has access to the Black Sea via the Port of Giurgiulești.
Posted by: A | Jun 28 2022 18:50 utc | 77
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 28 2022 18:29 utc | 69
"ex" is "excluding", abbreviated.
So, no. Neither the US Federal Reserve Banking System or US Treasurey has committed to "getting out" of the dollar or shipping RMB reserves to depository institutions regulated by APEC members other than its own.
We might yet see some withdrawals from US chartered banks by APEC members...until Treasury pulls another, classic redemption moratorium.
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 28 2022 18:53 utc | 78
sippy the shot glass @ 73
Hmm, the abstract or conclusion didn't really tell me what that paper had to do with my comment. I didn't really express any neo-liberal, or Marxist views in that. Nor am I a follower of either school of thought.
Perhaps full reading later is in order.
Posted by: Joe6pack | Jun 28 2022 19:00 utc | 80
@ jhill | Jun 28 2022 17:18 utc | 44
And those of us who love America hate the Empire.
Yes
Edward Abbey: "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 28 2022 19:00 utc | 81
Mall missile strike. From the date stamp of the park video and one picture showing the burned mall with the untouched factory in the background. This mall burned down the day before the factory missile strikes.The missile strike did not cause this.
Posted by: Redrider | Jun 28 2022 19:00 utc | 82
quoted by karlof1 @43
"The Ukrainian side can end all this before the end of this day; an order is necessary for the nationalist units to lay down their weapons, an order is necessary for the Ukrainian military to lay down their weapons; and they must fulfill all Russia’s demands. Then everything will be over before the day ends," the spokesman said
The "fulfill all Russia’s demands" part is the stickler, as it requires criminal investigation, prosecution, and execution/incarceration of all of the Nazis, and making Nazism itself a serious criminal offense. As you note, this would be suicidal for Zelensky. Maybe he will do the smart thing and hitch a ride back from the G20 in Bali with the Russians?
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 19:01 utc | 83
Posted by: sln2002 | Jun 28 2022 18:53 utc | 78
Ah, well. It would only be a drop in the petrodollar-racket anyway.
Posted by: John Kennard | Jun 28 2022 19:02 utc | 84
@Ned #21
Check out Rosenberg, the BBC Russia reporter.
https://twitter.com/i/events/1483255084750282753
Moscow’s version of events in Kremenchuk will be derided outside Russia, but promoted in the state media here. Russian MOD claims the shopping mall fire was the result of “the detonation of stored ammunition for Western weapons” in nearby arms depot & that the mall was not in use
Is he able to refute this somehow? The video (That even the likes of MSNBC published) clearly shows the other side of the industrial park exploding violently which correlates exactly with 'Moscow's version of events' unless somehow the shopping centre was the epicentre of the missile strike and somehow the explosion got vastly more powerful as it travelled away because it looks like the structure is entirely intact and it got fire from the heat/pressure wave from the missile strike or secondary explosions. We even have multiple people in the video who only react to the explosion inside the industrial park implying that this was the initial missile strike location.
I haven't heard any suggestion from anyone that two or more missiles hit, even the videos are described as the strike on the shopping centre.
This kind of naked psychopathic lying is why people don't trust them anymore. And despite what they believe, it is only the middle and up classes in the West who consume this non-sense. The working classes in the West and particularly working class men aren't buying any of this. (And with the exception of Japan, nobody outside the West buys any of this) You guys prodded Russia to attack Ukraine hoping they'd do it and everything, every death, every accident, every atrocity is on you as much as it is on Ukraine or Russia.
Posted by: Altai | Jun 28 2022 19:04 utc | 85
Re.: Oil price cap
From The Guardian:
A price cap would operate by dictating to the quasi-monopoly responsible for insuring Russian oil tankers that they will be sanctioned if they allow oil to be sold above a fixed price. About 95% of the world’s tanker liability coverage is arranged through a City of London-based insurance organisation called the International Group of Protection and Indemnity Clubs, which has to heed European law.
My admittedly totally inexpert opinion (would love to read expert's views): The (assumed) leverage of a (roof organization) "Club" in the City of London which represents 13 member clubs from all over the world, for the interest of a fraction of its members, is shocking. I doubt that "European law" (Brussels, London, or even DC?) can simply "dictate" to this international entity without damaging the "Club", triggering a series of lawsuits, and -like with currencies- lead to alternatives in the insurance sector. To break such a monopoly once and for all is a good and necessary thing to do, anyway. So, bring it on. The sooner, the better. And Russia's reaction is foresseable: Nothing is brought anymore. The market will hike crude prices even more. Citizens of the West pay and NATOstan must mofify its refineries. Next gas availabel in 5 years. Please leave your Email address for a notification.
Posted by: OttoE | Jun 28 2022 19:12 utc | 86
how and whether Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky should shift his definition of a Ukrainian "victory" -- adjusting for the possibility that his country has shrunk irreversibly.
Funny... losing a war is just a PR problem. This is literally what the West has become. Keeps going back to Ron Suskind's talk with Karl Rove about "creating reality". The Democrats had a great laugh at that but they operate in the exact same manner. If not worse.
Posted by: goldhoarder | Jun 28 2022 19:14 utc | 87
Lavrov's presser is published in Russian for now. He relates the results of the Ministerial Council of the Caspian Littoral States held in Ashgabat prior to tomorrow's opening of the Caspian Summit in Turkmenistan's capital. I'd very much like to see the Outlaw US Empire attempt a freedom of navigation exercise in the Caspian given what Lavrov announced:
"The importance of cooperation in the field of military cooperation was emphasized. It is proposed to accelerate work on an agreement on the development of confidence-building measures regarding the military activities of the Caspian states. The principle of the Convention in the legal status of the Caspian Sea that the presence of the armed forces of non-Caspian is excluded here has been firmly and unequivocally confirmed. Just as in the field of navigation in general, including civil navigation: within the framework of the Convention on the Legal Status of the Caspian Sea, it was decided that navigation is carried out only by ships under the flag of one of the Caspian countries. The same principle applies to the entry and exit from the Caspian Sea of any vessel. Today we have also clearly confirmed this principle." [My Emphasis]
In the presser, Lavrov is once again asked about escalation due to NATO supplying arms, munitions and troops to Ukraine. Here's part of Lavrov's answer to that query:
Statements about the inadmissibility of any negotiations in the current conditions are regularly made by Boris Johnson, O. Scholz and J. Borrell, who constantly calls for spending more money on weapons for Ukraine from the European Peace Fund. Schizophrenia manifests itself to a certain extent here.Yesterday, all the media in the West exploded with videos from Kremenchuk, which showed footage of a burning shopping center with accusations of the Russian military that they were bombing civilian infrastructure. The Russian Ministry of Defense clearly explained what really happened: they bombed the hangar, where American and European weapons and ammunition arrived. As a result of the detonation of ammunition, a nearby empty shopping center caught fire.
The more weapons are supplied to prolong the conflict and the suffering of civilians constantly living under the shelling of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi regime, the more tasks we will perform "on the ground". All of them will be fulfilled. [My Emphasis]
Here's part of Lavrov's answer about the NATO Summit in Madrid:
"The plans for the NATO summit are to declare us a threat and China a systemic challenge. They play with words, but the essence does not change from this. Long ago, before the NATO summit was convened, Russia had already been declared an enemy in one way or another. If you listen to the statements of Western politicians, our country is declared an enemy simply because it does not want to agree with the neoliberal world order, which the United States, subjugating the entire Western world without exception, imposes on everyone else under the slogan of 'a world order based on rules.' President Vladimir Putin spoke about this recently, showing the deadlock of such a policy pursued by the West, led by Washington. For us, this is not surprising. This will not bring anything new to the practical policy of the United States and its satellites."
On the G-20 and possibility of Z appearing, here's the full machine translated answer:
We approach the work of the Group of Twenty based on the fundamental principles on which it was founded. This is the organization of coordination of actions of the leading world powers in the field of economy and international finance in order to ensure the stability of the world economy and prevent "distortions", crises, as well as the solution of many other specific tasks related specifically to maintaining stability in the world economy.Each time, the host country invites certain representatives who are not members of the Group of Twenty. Now without V.A. Zelensky can not do anywhere. "They" are so intrusive and intrusive. Apparently, in between receiving a command from Washington, he has free time, so the Ukrainian president is happy to "fit in" into any format and say something with tears in his eyes. We will have little interest in whether he walks somewhere on the side at the Bali summit or not. At the same time, we always respect the actions of the host country of the Group of Twenty.
President of Indonesia John Widodo will visit the Russian Federation in the coming days. Preparations for the G20 will be one of the key topics of his talks with President Vladimir Putin. We will not make the meaning and significance of this format hostage to the "whims" of states that are trying to preserve their own problems in the sphere of influence of the West and force it to more actively use them to implement a policy of undermining the foundations of international law and establishing hegemony.
We will do business, not propaganda and ideology. [My Emphasis]
So, yet another hurdle's cleared for the establishment of the North-South International Transport Corridor.
Not from Sputnik:
🇫🇮🇸🇪Turkey has decided to support the accession of Finland and Sweden to NATO.
The Office of the Finnish President Niinisto confirms this information.
The Turkish government blocked the entry of these countries into NATO, accusing them of supporting Kurdish formations.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 19:30 utc | 89
Posted by: Arganthonios | June 28, 2022 at 19:30
Intel Republic elaborates:
⚡BREAKING NEWS⚡
Turkey to back Sweden and Finland NATO membership bid after meeting at Madrid summit.
"Our foreign ministers signed a trilateral memorandum which confirms that Turkey will at the Madrid summit this week support the invitation of Finland and Sweden to become members of NATO." - Finnish president, Sauli Niinisto.
Earlier Turkey had threatened to veto Finnish and Swedish entry into the bloc.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 19:32 utc | 90
NATO Deputy SG answers Ukrainian criticism …
Заступник генсека НАТО: ексклюзив про Україну, членство в НАТО і ЄС та саміт Альянсу в Мадриді
26 jun. 2022 Мірча Джоане, заступник генсека НАТО, поспілкувався з «Європейською правдою». Що принесе мадридський саміт НАТО? Що готує Альянс для України? Чи є зв’язок між вступом України до Альянсу та до ЄС? Про це і багато іншого дивіться у інтерв'ю:
YouTube video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yG3RcBZme8
Article summary - https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/06/27/7142077/
Mircea Geoană: We Taught You NATO-Style Solutions
With all respect to Ukraine, our number one task is to protect the billion people in NATO. I will remind you that the recent meeting, i.e., the "Ramstein format," had taken place here, at NATO headquarters, before the Alliance ministerial meeting.”
@72 " what are we in the west heading into. Recession or total collapse? "
US has to trash EU, they can't print money forever. At this moment it seems there will be a very difficult winter. Gas will be cut by EU one way or another to make people suffer, blame Putin for it and hide the US plan. Gazprom said that at the current flow it's not possible to have enough in EU storage for winter as usual. LNG isn't enough on the planet to solve the problem. That means some factories will stop and people will get heat a few hours a day.
Food and energy will hurt most. 2023 will be worse probably, lack of fertilizers will be visible in 4-6 months. Produce is left rotting on the fields in UK, Bulgarians and Romanians don't go there anymore since covid restrictions.
Sputnik says Turkey accepted finland/sweden in nato, so Erdo didn't get what he wanted from Putin. If Erdo goes the EU way poverty in Turkey will go up and he'll get again massive protests.
Anyway, recession is guaranteed. If you need to buy something do it now. It will be more expensive or unavailable soon, industrial transport fees have jumped in 4 months from prices in hundreds of dollars range to many tens of thousands of dollars.
Posted by: rk | Jun 28 2022 19:36 utc | 92
Pagan @53: "...what to say about many a barfly here who still discuss what part of Ukraine carcass will be left for the West to gobble up..."
Wishful thinking. Those are people who are thinking this is about territory, and they very much want their "side" to get some. The Ukraine was for the most part de facto US territory after the coup in 2014, like Guam or Germany. The Empire's dogs went around urinating on every fire hydrant and utility pole they could find marking it as American. From these people's perspective the Russians are taking "their" territory away.
It is no exaggeration to say that many in the West view this whole thing like a huge version of the board game Risk, and the Ukrainians dying for America's territory are no more than game pieces; plastic game counters. Sure, these folks don't want the Ukrainians to die, but only because they want more game counters; more game tokens on their side, not because they feel any empathy for the Ukrainians as human beings.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 28 2022 19:36 utc | 93
@ Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 19:32 utc | 90
turkey has a reputation of playing both sides off one another for the highest bidder.... that is my take on turkey since the war on syria... good luck to them playing that game... this comes as no surprise whatsoever.. in fact, erdogan has shown an ability to stay in the game with whatever it takes..
Posted by: james | Jun 28 2022 19:39 utc | 95
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 19:32 utc | 90
More on the same:
⚡️BREAKING NEWS⚡️
Ater a trilateral memorandum with Turkey, Sweden, Finland agree to consider:
- Turkey's requests for extradition of terrorist suspects.
- Stop financing, support Kurdish groups that Ankara labels as terrorists.
Nordic countries support for Kurdish groups was primary reason Erdogan refused to support their NATO membership.
**************
I guess the good part of this is that there will be less funding for the misc bucket of belligerents in Syria, but I don't have much against Kurds beyond that.
I'm sure the Turk will find some excuse to keep stirring shit in Syria.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jun 28 2022 19:41 utc | 96
@ eyeswideopen | Jun 28 2022 19:36 utc | 94
i agree and said so to the post @ 91, but it is in the cue being held up... erdogan has played both sides for the highest bidder and of course he is most concerned about his own political survival... the turkish people get what they get under his leadership..
Posted by: james | Jun 28 2022 19:41 utc | 97
President Erdoğan criticizes US over delaying F-16 sales
Follow closely news from Turkiye … Erdogan is not satisfied and doesn’t want escalation on his doorstep … decision will be delayed.
Watched recent discussion between Stoltenberg and Finnish president … asked the difficult questions.
Test... is there a problem with comments today?
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jun 28 2022 19:48 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Posted by: IronForge | Jun 28 2022 14:37 utc | 1