Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 06, 2022

U.S. Pushes Fake Stories To Goad Russia Into Escalation

The geniuses (not) at the National Security Council want to goad Russia into direct attacks on U.S. forces or interests. That would give the U.S. an excuse to further escalate the war in Ukraine into an open confrontation. It would also diverts the attention away from domestic problems.

To achieve this the NSC has pushed a number of stories to the media which claim that alleged Ukrainian successes are based on U.S. intelligence.

U.S. Intelligence Is Helping Ukraine Kill Russian Generals, Officials Say, May 4, NYT

WASHINGTON — The United States has provided intelligence about Russian units that has allowed Ukrainians to target and kill many of the Russian generals who have died in action in the Ukraine war, according to senior American officials.

Ukrainian officials said they have killed approximately 12 generals on the front lines, a number that has astonished military analysts.

The targeting help is part of a classified effort by the Biden administration to provide real-time battlefield intelligence to Ukraine. That intelligence also includes anticipated Russian troop movements gleaned from recent American assessments of Moscow’s secret battle plan for the fighting in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, the officials said. Officials declined to specify how many generals had been killed as a result of U.S. assistance.

The United States has focused on providing the location and other details about the Russian military’s mobile headquarters, which relocate frequently. Ukrainian officials have combined that geographic information with their own intelligence — including intercepted communications that alert the Ukrainian military to the presence of senior Russian officers — to conduct artillery strikes and other attacks that have killed Russian officers.

The story is obvious bullshit because there are only two Russian generals who have died so far during the Russian campaign in Ukraine.

Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky was killed on February 28 and Major General Vladimir Frolov was killed in early April. Both deaths were immediately officially acknowledged and reported in Russian media. Both men were buried with military honors.

All other 'killed Russian generals' are victims of the 'ghost of Kiev'.  The Ukrainian propaganda apparatus likes such stories because it knows that 'western' media will pick up on them.

Russia does not hide the death of high officers. It is impossible to do so over longer periods as such men are known by many others. It would be bad for any government to get caught in such a scheme. There is also no reason to do so.

Some U.S. sources claim that a general's death will demoralize the troops he led. The opposite is the case. Generals getting killed on or near the frontline demonstrate to frontline soldiers that they are not alone in their fighting and that their officers are doing the job while carrying the same high risk than they do.

The Pentagon denied any involvement:

The Pentagon denied Thursday that the U.S. has shared intelligence with Ukraine with the intent of targeting and killing senior Russian military leaders, stressing that the goal of U.S. intelligence is simply to allow Ukrainian forces to defend themselves against Russia's invasion.

The generals in the Pentagon are keen to not become targets for Russian reprisals.

Here is another such story:

U.S. intel helped Ukraine sink Russian flagship Moskva, officials say, May 5, NBCnews

Intelligence shared by the U.S. helped Ukraine sink the Russian cruiser Moskva, U.S. officials told NBC News, confirming an American role in perhaps the most embarrassing blow to Vladimir Putin’s troubled invasion of Ukraine.

A guided missile cruiser carrying a crew of 510, the Moskva was the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet. It sank on April 14 after being struck by two Ukrainian Neptune anti-ship missiles.

It is in fact still not clear what has happened to the Moskva. Russia only said that the ship had an explosion on board that ripped the hull below the waterline and caused a fire. There are other possibilities but hits by two Ukrainian anti-ship missiles seem unlikely.

The Pentagon again denied any direct involvement:

In a statement released after this story was published, Pentagon press secretary John Kirby said the U.S. did not provide Ukraine with "specific targeting information for the Moskva."

"We were not involved in the Ukrainians’ decision to strike the ship or in the operation they carried out," Kirby added. "We had no prior knowledge of Ukraine’s intent to target the ship. The Ukrainians have their own intelligence capabilities to track and target Russian naval vessels, as they did in this case."

The last sentence is incorrect as Russia destroyed all Ukrainian naval radars that were stupid enough to radiate.

Russia will not react to such stupid stories. It knows that the U.S. is pushing all kinds of battlefield information as well as weapons to the Ukrainians. It is also assumed that foreign generals are 'consulting' the general staff of the Ukrainian forces. Neither will help the Ukraine to win the war.

Over the longer term Russia may well seek revenge for the U.S. proxy war against it. But President Putin is a patient man and revenge is a dish best served cold.

Posted by b on May 6, 2022 at 15:29 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Looks like "Red Babushka" has been located. It would appear she and her husband are OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLE_Ba7YqkU

There is some discussion about the translation. However the old man comes across very clear,

"Lord protect us from these demons"

Posted by: Tom_12 | May 7 2022 13:07 utc | 301

Reuters got caught twisting the account given by Avostal employee turned hostage. She, her husband and children went to Avostal Feb 24, knowing well of the fortifications but they did not know they would be trapped by the fascists.
bottom line... she blames the ukies and is moving to Russia.

Reuters spin--
"BEZIMENNE, Ukraine, May 1 (Reuters) - Cowering in the labyrinth of Soviet-era bunkers far beneath the vast Azovstal steel works, Natalia Usmanova felt her heart would stop she was so terrified as Russian bombs rained down on Mariupol, sprinkling her with concrete dust."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/mariupol-evacuee-recounts-heart-stopping-terror-bunkers-azovstal-2022-05-01/

Her full story is on Youtube (for now). 2 minutes. She lays it out. must view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZPAfK7KO8

Posted by: migueljose | May 7 2022 13:16 utc | 302

#-- Well, I guess, no more, no less, than your being an ass-hole because of your Conservative upbringing.

Posted by: vetinLA | May 6 2022 20:05 utc | 100


You need a mirror? I have one ready for you.

Posted by: Anne B | May 7 2022 13:19 utc | 303

I haven't read the whole blog but I noticed on page 1 that a number of people were wondering whether the Moskva was sunk by Ukrainian forces' missiles
or not. The question is addressed in some detail here
https://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-11/

Posted by: Stevelancs | May 7 2022 13:22 utc | 304

Jpc

And the Finn's. What the fuck are they going to achieve realistically? Hyper idiots as you observe.

Yeah Finland have lost it with their warmongering efforts to join Nato right at this time, Finland as a Nato member will have the longest border with Russia.
Finland is led by a clueless 34 yr old woman that have no knowledge about foreign/security topics.

Same with Sweden that will join Nato at the same time, idiocy indeed!

Posted by: Zanon | May 7 2022 13:28 utc | 305

But, they are going into the open as we talk...As the EU populations continue to swallow the total whitewashing of the Ukrainian nazis without any counter facts due the total ban of Russian media and total ban on social media of any Eu citizen who would dare to correct the fake news...

We have that the recently reinforced and revived through strange last minute rise in votes "Vichy Regime" in France has banned Russia from celebrations of the Victory over Nazi Germany in WWII, while those who fought along the nazis are invited instead...

https://twitter.com/ComisionOctubre/status/1522693707241332736?cxt=HHwWgIC9nf722KEqAAAA

That collaborationist France who got rid as soon as it could of any sovereign and really nationalist antifascist force or leader does such a thing does not surprise anybody who were paying attention during these past decades, the current u-turning of France towards nazism started with the sold out of the Socilist French Party and the Sarkozy presidency...and the non-stop neoliberalization of France which includes the termination of its welfare state through Macron´s tenure...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 7 2022 13:38 utc | 306

Re all those comments about big Nazi progress in Kharkov region and Snake Island are just repeating garbage Nazi dreams.
If you follow the various Telegram channels reporting on Ukraine you will see nothing beyond a weak counter attack at Kharkov region that was easily repulsed.
And no big battles over Snake island.

Posted by: Surferket | May 7 2022 13:43 utc | 307

I am not particularly fond of NATO belligerence and the idiotic policies versus Russia but this must not blind us to some realities.

The sinking of the Moskva (missile, mine, torpedo or accident) is a sign of incompetence. Do you think in an all out conflict against a peer competitor there will be no mines, torpedos or missiles?

If the attack on the frigate Makarov pans out as a missile attack it makes it very likely that such was the Moskva incident. Since Russia is likely to be at the technical state of the art missile defense this would certainly be very interesting as it either indicates gross incompetence of Russian personnel or that surface ships are no longer survivable which puts the whole US Navy in perspective (will have to deal with attacks by dozens of Chinese antiship missiles at once).

The slow progress of the Russian advance also should not be excused since a quick victory would be much safer as it does not give the West the time to unite, plan and carry into effect countermeasures.

It is claimed that the Russians are outnumbered anywhere from 1:2 to 1:3. You just cannot conduct an attack on a well entrenched defender on its home turf with that sort of manpower.

Azovstal is also still not resolved and the Russians even let the defenders get to the surface again after having driven them underground already.

This is a clown show allowing Nato to get rid of useless surplus and try out new mil-tech, steadily bleeding Russia in the process.

All around that is pretty incomprehensible to me.

Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 13:44 utc | 308

Another imbecile theme spread around here is that peace would surely become common everywhere if only the US were to disappear.

Well the US has been a global player for all of 120 years (at most) but war has been a problem throughout history.

Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 13:49 utc | 309

#----Posted by: Rasta | May 6 2022 20:37 utc | 106

Don’t shoot the messenger! I just want to know where this accusation is coming from, I am not interested in the details.

If you're only the messenger, you need to show me where you got the message from.

Such wild claims put out without any substance, is like poison. As I suspect you're well aware of.


Posted by: Anne B | May 7 2022 13:50 utc | 310

@ Bottle 308

The "attack" on the Admiral Makarov was nothing but a silly propanganda piece: that ship is untouched (see the photographs on Intel Slava). Falling for Ukrainian hysterics? Also, obviously the Nazi's in Avostal will try desparate shoot-outs: how does that signify Russian incompetence? Something seems lacking in your ability to comprehend, or else you're dishonest.

Posted by: Anton | May 7 2022 14:00 utc | 311

#--Posted by: xototox | May 6 2022 23:23 utc | 150

https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948

Posted by: Anne B | May 7 2022 14:03 utc | 312

Posted by: Anne B | May 7 2022 13:50 utc | 310

That’s not a difficult task to find links of such accusations

Some links:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas

https://time.com/6168330/rape-war-crime-russia-ukraine/

https://time.com/6168330/rape-war-crime-russia-ukraine/

To make my point clear: During war all parties are lying so you cannot rely on these information.

However , when I discuss with friends and colleagues, they talk about war crimes and refer to official sources, see above…
Then the discussion is over because it gets very emotional then.

So my question to the community is, how do you react if such arguments come up because these accusations currently cannot be denied nor confirmed, but it poisons the discussion.

And yes, I am aware of the poison you mentioned, but I hope, in this community here we can talk openly about such topics, because information warfare is a key part of conflicts nowadays.

Posted by: Rasta | May 7 2022 14:04 utc | 313

Tomorrow the celebration of Immortal Regiment in Madrid ( which has been clebrated through several years alreayd by the Russian and Soviet diaspora along the numerous antifascists still remining in Spain..) has been menaced by a counter demonstration organized by "Russia Tomorrow", a pro-Ukrainian regime organization with presence in Spain and linked to Navalny.

They have got to the extent of writting a reuqest to Queen of Spain, Leticia, to ask for the forbidding of the celebrations of the victory over nazism and their citizen and military victims amongst the populastion the Immortal Regiment is.

These people are taking advantage of their privileged moment at the whole Western press and governments full protection and promotion to try to terminate any remaining opossition ot the nazification of Europe. We all know the xenophoci and far-right stance by Navalny, ad thius the dnagerous precedent that the whole support for this unscrupulous upstart, the size of his equal Saakhasvili, meant during the past years.

You have to stop their feet because their audacity is beginning to be dangerous. Taking advantage of their victimhood they are undermining democracies and raising the extreme right. In Portugal they have already started a campaign against the PCP to try to make it illegal, this is going to go further. The PCP was of the few, along some Greek parliamentarians, who either protested of left their parliments at the presence of Zelensky, and even an Azov representative in the Greek parliament, to the outrage of Greek antifascists.

The Portuguese Communist Party has soon awakened to this situation and has denounced "declarations of fascist hatred" by Ukrainian representatives in Portugal and compares them to "the henchmen of the PIDE (political police of the Salazarist dictatorship) attacking anti-fascists.

The objective of these operatives is to cause turmoil at our societies, once the turmoil and divide caused by the "pandemic measures" dissipated a bit when the Ukrainian war took the place of the pandemic in the continuous fearmongering of the population.

These opertatives are acting as imperialist shock force into our societies to eliminate any remaining dissent to NATO and its re-nazification of Europe and dcitating norms to our societies and governments. That we citizens kept open mouthed when Zelensky attacked and tried to ashame one of the two most profiteering industries in Spain, after tourism ( already ruined through the pandemic measures and which brought US holdings to get the hotels at pennies price..) construction ceramics, because they were still trading with Russian, while the alleged "representatives" of the Spanish people of all parties clapped him, and after he compared the Russian military operatinon on Ukraine to the bombing og Guernica by the same nazi Wehrmatch his nazi battlions fought along with, was a bad sign enough to realize that what remains of the Spabish left, a succedaneous infiltrated by Soros operatives, has sold the Spanish population to slavery and nazism for a swimming pool and a chalet in the sierra.

The moment to go out and express our antifascists views before they start teroririzing us as they did with the Ukrianian population during the past 8 years is now.

They are trying to send us to the basements and illegality where they belong.

Not a step behind before the fascist thugs.

No pasarán

https://twitter.com/ComisionOctubre/status/1522837273015898112?cxt=HHwWgMCyzc6bmqIqAAAA

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 7 2022 14:06 utc | 314

UK now claims 30 Rus. colonels killed.

Recently Ukr "claimed" 2 smaller ships destroyed off Odessa . plus video today of Rus. VLC delivering air defence systems to Snake Island blown up....hmmm...wonder what independant verification is possible....

Posted by: Jo | May 7 2022 14:07 utc | 315

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 7 2022 1:55 utc

On the subject of discovering HQ via increased local radio traffic.

Why not offset the radio receivers from the actual HQ then use the power lines to run the signal to the HQs with improvised copper lines for the "last mile". There will then be no correlation between radio traffic density and HQ location.

Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 14:12 utc | 316

Posted by: Anton | May 7 2022 14:00 utc | 311

Azovstal: the Russians do not have to retreat form their dominant surface positions while a human corridor is in effect, they only have to guarantee the safety of the civilians.

In this way the Nazis, once driven underground, remain underground, all you have to do is monitor the exits.

Agree?

Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 14:16 utc | 317

https://t.me/intelslava/28150
The frigate “Admiral Makarov” is in Sevastopol

Another Ukrainian propaganda about the destruction of a Russian Navy ship has been debunked

A photo has been published in which the Admiral Makarov is safe and sound in the port of Sevastopol today.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 7 2022 14:18 utc | 318

"retreating" lol, more NATO propaganda, uncritically swallowed.

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 7 2022 14:21 utc | 319

One of the few who denounce the clear authoritarian and fascist way in the EU parliament...

https://twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1522604783256887299?cxt=HHwWhoCz9fa-sKEqAAAA

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 7 2022 14:21 utc | 320

Portugal: Ukrainians attack the PCP.
Germany: ban the flag of the USSR.
France: Russia is excluded from Victory celebrations.
Spain: Ukrainians ask for the prohibition of homage to those who fell against Nazi-fascism.

On the way to end up banning anti-fascism.

The far-right associations of Ukrainians act as occupiers in the EU countries, dictating norms and impossing the US/NATO "rules based order" in which fascism now is the right way to go.

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 7 2022 14:25 utc | 321

intelslavaz telegram...posted pic of today Makarov shipsafe in Sevastopol harbour

Posted by: Jo | May 7 2022 14:39 utc | 322

Posted by: sln2002 | May 7 2022 2:10 utc | 203

"a tactical nuclear warhead could trigger seismic activity which would release total energy up to 1,000 times that produced by the weapon itself"

Only in an earthquake zone, since the additional energy has to come from somewhere.

Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 14:39 utc | 323

"Galicia is going to be Poland's Vietnam"

2022.05.07 Poland Will Take A Bite Out Of Ukraine

Posted by: Norwegian | May 7 2022 14:40 utc | 324

" Putin says the first principle of statecraft is morality. That alone distances himself from the US/UK/Zionist slimeballs. By light-years.

Posted by: Richard | May 6 2022 23:11 utc | 146 "

How would that square with purposely sending soldiers into Kiev, knowing that they would be probably killed, just to perform some feint maneuver to trick the Ukies ? Not very moral is it. Thats why I dont buy the Kiev feint attack story. The Russians fully intended to enter Kiev but something happened and they were forced out. What that something was is anyone's guess.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 7 2022 14:41 utc | 325

@Deplorable Commissar | May 7 2022 14:41 utc | 325

The Russians fully intended to enter Kiev but something happened and they were forced out. What that something was is anyone's guess.
No, it is only you who have not been paying attention. What happened has been all over these blogs for weeks, and it is not what you say.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 7 2022 14:44 utc | 326

#---Posted by: karlof1 | May 6 2022 23:39 utc | 155

The Bible warns excessively against wolfs in sheeps clothing leading people to hell. It also warns against judaizers.
If you read Jesus criticism of the pharisees, it's virtually the same thing.
If you read how he describes the end times - it becomes eerie.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Matt. 24: 9-14

Just like the people in Jerusalem, we rely on hear-say, even if we -unlike them- have full access to the Gospel.
It's a very human thing to do.

The good news is there is a purge going on within the evangelical church, because of Covid. It forced many churches and their followers to go online for a while. It exposed the trickery, and opened the door to a growing number of sound teachers fed up with the nonsense.

And some great music - Kenneth Copeland is huge as lil KC

https://youtu.be/K0jgr5POOYQ

Posted by: Anne B | May 7 2022 14:44 utc | 327

@Bottle 317

No I don't agree at all. Azovstal is huge. You can play whack-a-mole near endlessly there. It's not a question of a handful of exits you need to watch: look at all the video's, you could bomb this place for months and still have structures standing! But you can guard the perimeters and that is what is being done, so that"no fly can escape". Please don't simplify.

Posted by: Anton | May 7 2022 14:53 utc | 328

Lira today on Poles and the 'peacekeeping' in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPqCMZu8Wrk

Posted by: ld | May 7 2022 14:59 utc | 329

bottle@308:

Have you ever stood bridge watch on a warship during a storm or rough seas? The lookouts wouldn't spot a mine even if it jumped up on the deck. Some events just occur or as some say, shit happens.

Posted by: morongobill | May 7 2022 15:01 utc | 330

#--Posted by: juliania | May 7 2022 0:19 utc | 173

I'm a simple soul, and need a simple gospel. To get it out of an orchestra is far above me.

That's why I ended up in the poetry of hip-hop.

Posted by: Anne B | May 7 2022 15:16 utc | 331

Posted by: morongobill | May 7 2022 15:01 utc | 330

Can you scan for mines using downward directed radar?

Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 15:23 utc | 332

@ld | May 7 2022 14:59 utc | 329
I posted that above.

I think the Poles are intending to be "piece takers" rather than "peace keepers".

Posted by: Norwegian | May 7 2022 15:30 utc | 333

top of the class bullshit.. i guess that is why this guy got the gig as spokesperson for nato -

"NATO supports Ukraine, but is not going to become a party to the conflict, it is necessary to avoid the spread of hostilities to other countries - NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg" what a shitty liar...

@ nemesis calling.... i am sorry, but i am not buying the excuse these are christian zionists.... a lot of these fundy christians have a very warped perspective on reality..

@ k.... i can't figure out exactly where nemesis calling is with hitler.. he has german ancestry via his grandparents... we have wasted a lot of oa ink on nemesis callings favourite hobby horses as i see it - christianity, and nazism.. theses ideologies get so convoluted and twisted, i think it is a waste of time to talk about it with followers or those who make excuses for the followers of these ideologies.. i am better off not wading into all this...

Posted by: james | May 7 2022 15:35 utc | 334

Information for everyone concerned and for further analyses:

Looks like the US has significantly increased the volume of weapons shipments destined for the Ukraine.

I live near a large strategic airbase and last night I counted over 30 very large cargo jets taking off. You can hear them for miles as they lift off under full thrust.

I recall when the attack on Afghanistan began in 2001. I could hear countless B52's taking off almost every day (pre-dawn) for the better part of a year. They always take-off at night to avoid satellites.

There's definitely feverish activity going on behind the scenes. I would expect the Russians are tracking these flights, as there are so many of them they would be hard to miss. I also imagine that the Ukis are being goaded for the 'big surprise' counter-attack that can't be to far away by the sound of all the recent activity. There hasn't been this much noise here since 2001.

Posted by: Spinworthy | May 7 2022 15:36 utc | 335

Posted by: Rasta | May 7 2022 14:04 utc | 313

"And yes, I am aware of the poison you mentioned, but I hope, in this community here we can talk openly about such topics, because information warfare is a key part of conflicts nowadays."

Well said. The way propaganda is pitched, especially that depicting war crimes, atrocities etc., it is designed to provoke a visceral emotional response which, when combined with a demonized cause of such emotion, basically locks in a perception of the described perpetrator-antagonist which no amount of later more nuanced, let alone flat-out contradictory, information will dislodge.

So once you find yourself or an interlocutor emotionally hooked by any given story, you can be sure that your/their perception of any other side in question will be skewed accordingly. Put another way: if you cannot consider such things without strong emotional responses, best just to stay away from any intellectual discussions for emotion trumps intellect - or indeed any counterfactual data - every time. And of course often it seems like people are not emotionally invested in any given issue but if the conversation goes too far from accepted orthodoxy, that emotion will come up forcefully, at which point retreat is pretty much always the best option. Not best for collective wisdom necessarily, but for one's own sense of balance and harmony.

Human nature has certain norms, basically.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 15:40 utc | 336

@ 238 Anne B - Thank you for the Lil KC videos. Wow. New to me. A bit of gallows humor is always welcome. And what great production!

Posted by: lex talionis | May 7 2022 15:43 utc | 337

There's an uncanny quiet regarding Ukraine in US media. It's not just the Roe v. Wade tsunami. Whether you turn to print or electronic media, several pressing matters have risen to the top, pushing Ukraine all the way back to the SF Chronicle's penultimate pages this morning.

The coverage you do see or hear is incomprehensible, as establishment reports strain for days to make the hostage situation in Azovstal look like anything else. US pentagon & state dept flacks are at open information warfare regarding everything. Today the WH announces another 150 million (I think) worth of arms for Ukraine -- but ordinary US Americans would have to be very confused about arms shipments if they're been paying attention: 150 million today, but didn't we pony up an additional 33 billion last week? Is anyone keeping a spreadsheet of the total, here?

On the side of sanity, my favorite military commentator Martyanov is back (from a little bout with la 'Rona) pouring cold water on all these stupid rumors (like b). AM's main theme: Time is on Russia's side. Russia has no reason to hurry. The West stands on thin ice, anxious to get things over with as their economies implode.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 7 2022 16:08 utc | 338

@ Paco | May 7 2022 10:20 utc | 278

thanks for that... i had never heard that before and i like it.. organ trio with jean luc ponty playing a famous monk tune..nice!

Posted by: james | May 7 2022 16:10 utc | 339

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 15:40 utc | 337

facts are also important. both the British empire and the short lived Nazi empire were stains on the history of civilization. people emotionally invested in them won't see it that way, of course, and mourn their passing.

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 7 2022 17:05 utc | 340

Milos @246--

Thanks very much for that link!! It translates very well and is informative. I asked Pepe if he has anything to share, so I hope we'll get some more to explore.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2022 17:37 utc | 341

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 7 2022 17:05 utc | 341

"facts are also important."

Yes but 'facts' in such matters are always a matter of opinion. There is no one single truth when discussing things which involved millions of individuals. There is no one single truth about what is happening in Ukraine right now. You might say there is an 'objective reality' about what is happening on the ground in Azov right now, for example. So many underground, so many military, so many civilians, so many soldiers from which division/battalion/squad etc. above ground doing X, Y and Z. Facts.

But those fact do not tell you why the people are there and what they want. Those things will vary from person to person engaged on the ground not to mention the thousands of people involved with the causes and conditions that ended up with this particular 'objective' configuration on the ground.

Why did Hess go to England? What was his intention? Why did the UK lock him up for over 50 years? There might be a 'factual' explanation for this but there cannot be one for 'what was the effect of the UK's treatment of Hess and what might have happened if his peace proposal had been accepted?' and yet the absence of fact does not make such a think entirely unworthy of consideration if it makes us look deeper into what we think actually did happen.

You say that the British Empire was a 'stain on the history of civilization' and presumably are also presenting that as an incontrovertible fact.

With respect, I think that demonstrates just how much nearly all facts when he consider them deeply enough are a matter of opinion. Including so-called 'scientific' facts.

And also: people emotionally invested in maintaining that both the British and the Nazi were 'stains' etc. will also tend to rejoice in their passing. Personally, I find get emotionally caught up in such things is a red flag that it's best to step away because no matter what the 'facts' of the case in question are, personal emotions do nothing except distort and confuse being so mixed up with personal, individual habits and ego territory which by definition is biased and so very far from impartial.

I suspect Andrei the Saker has just had to take a break from all this because he was getting emotionally caught up in the atrocity propaganda directed against people he identifies with. Understandable but unfortunate. And extremely disturbing which it is designed to be. Best not to fall into it imo. I don't watch any MSM during wartime, read any articles in NYT or WAPO nor regard anything I read here or elsewhere as necessarily true. War is very confused and confusing. I look for patterns, trajectories, possible ramifications, hints as to whether or not there will be a run on the banks or empty shelves, but little more.

Of course I do have feelings: I think war is a terrible thing and the killing of soldiers on any side a disaster. I don't get into regarding one side as angels and the other as demons. There is simply not enough historical justification for so doing. So I have no more feeling for or against the Nazis or the British or the Russians in WWII, for example, like you seem to evidence, than I have for the Russians, Ukrainians, Americans or the British right now. And soldier who falls on the field in that conflict has lost a life which is equally precious imo. And that includes the reportedly monstrous Azov people using civilians as human shields, which is despicable. That they have become like that is a tragedy just as what they perpetrate is also ghastly.

In any case, that people believe their enemies are demonic is entirely understandable: how else can you bring yourself to kill them and mobilize your country to sacrifice so that you can do so? But those of not on the field of battle needn't get so riled up as to believe all these stories. I answer these posts because I believe this dynamic is important for each of us as we witness and talk about the current war. And understanding some of the role of wartime propaganda in shaping our perceptions of reality over many decades may help us navigate through the current blizzard of wartime propaganda we are all stumbling through right now.

Is the Russian SMO doing well or poorly? Do you believe the Russian MoD versions or not? Clearly they will downplay and setbacks. But will they do so to the point that we get an entirely distorted picture of what is happening? These are things we each have to determine for ourselves. But to assume that one side is always and only telling the truth without any exaggeration or obfuscation is, I suspect, a tad naive.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 17:37 utc | 342

Apologies for typos. I do re-read what I write before posting but it seems many words are still wrong. Several times 'any' came out as 'and' and I cannot understand it since it is hardly likely to be a typo due to the position of the keys in question.

Etrange.......

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 17:44 utc | 343

Seer @263--

Thanks for your reply and further thoughts. There's a literary thread that began in the 19th Century dealing with the underlying issue of Man being overruled by Machine/Technology which it appears few philosophers have tried to tackle. It's certainly worthy of tying-in to what's happening to the West, but I don't see that happening so much in the Global South. The topic would make for a great thread.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2022 17:51 utc | 344

Anne B @328--

Thanks for your reply and additions. Yes, those words are very Seldon/Asimov. Lots of thinking prods in this thread. Thanks again!

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2022 18:01 utc | 345

South Front informs that Popasyana has been liberated. This is a strategic crossroad that will certainly speed up complete defeat of UA in northern Donbas. Also RT reports evacuation of large number of civilians from Azovstal.

Posted by: Milos | May 7 2022 18:07 utc | 346

@ Scorpion | May 7 2022 17:37 utc | 343

nice post... thanks for saying all that.. i share your position for the most part too..

Posted by: james | May 7 2022 18:44 utc | 347

" No, it is only you who have not been paying attention. What happened has been all over these blogs for weeks, and it is not what you say.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 7 2022 14:44 utc | 327 "

Thanks for your opinion.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 7 2022 19:03 utc | 348

" There's an uncanny quiet regarding Ukraine in US media. It's not just the Roe v. Wade tsunami "

Quiet before the storm.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 7 2022 19:06 utc | 349

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 15:40 utc | 337

That was really a short but very on point psychological deep dive, thanks for that input.

I fully agree , also based on my experience that working with facts is useless if your counterpart is full of emotions, no way to enter his brain.

I am from Europe and I am afraid that first we need to feel the pain of freezing and starvation to rethink our moral highground.
It will come rather sooner than later and the only thing we barflies can do is to prepare a bit for that.

Funfact: In Germany there was a study being conducted on the correlation between anti-vaxxers and „putin-supporters“ and goes what…it was significantly positive (correlation).

What a surprise!!

Posted by: Rasta | May 7 2022 19:10 utc | 350

You say that the British Empire was a 'stain on the history of civilization' and presumably are also presenting that as an incontrovertible fact.

yeah imperialism killed tens of millions of people. that's a stain. now you're defending colonialism. what's next, Scorpion, the white man's burden? pretend you're objective if you want.

with people like you, everything is "narrative", including hard science. it makes it easier to spout bullshit.

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 7 2022 20:07 utc | 351

Funfact: In Germany there was a study being conducted on the correlation between anti-vaxxers and „putin-supporters“ and goes what…it was significantly positive (correlation).

What a surprise!!

Posted by: Rasta | May 7 2022 19:10 utc | 351


i will not be surprise

Posted by: Svorane | May 7 2022 20:42 utc | 352

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 7 2022 20:07 utc | 352

"yeah imperialism killed tens of millions of people. that's a stain. now you're defending colonialism. what's next, Scorpion, the white man's burden? pretend you're objective if you want."

Who here has been defending colonialism? Statecraft is about representing the interests of your country. Churchill was Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth. He lost the Commonwealth. Now you might feel it was a wicked thing, but surely Churchill as Prime Minister should not have felt that. In fact we know from many remarks that he most decidedly did NOT feel that. That is what matters, not your 2022 high-and-mighty moral judgments about it. The point is that he was offered peace with Germany with guarantees for security of the Commonwealth countries. He turned that peace down. You may rejoice because for you the Commonwealth - including all the hundreds of thousands of brave young men in their dashing uniforms who gave their lives for it in 1914-18 - represents evil incarnate, but I bet Churchill and most English subjects did not feel that way. Therefore turning down Hess's offer was something that had grave consequences for all British subjects. That was my main point. Not whether or not they were a worthy people according to our standards today. Frankly, it's completely irrelevant to what was being discussed. And then you go on:


"with people like you, everything is "narrative", including hard science. it makes it easier to spout bullshit."

Especially with posts like this which take refuge in crude insult without making a substantive rebuttal or new point, I am reminded of a saying we British public school boys used to love hurling at each other back in the days when we didn't realize the Empire had already fallen, and usually in good humor I might add:

'he who smelt it, dealt it!'

And with that, Scorpion rests his case against pretzelsesselfarter!

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 21:06 utc | 353

"- including all the hundreds of thousands of brave young men in their dashing uniforms who gave their lives for it in 1914-18 .."

I meant to include that it was all the brave young men from all those Commonwealth countries. People have managed to convert many of the original WWI photos in B&W to color. Boy did they dress the part back then. It's before the modern era, having finally killed off the aristocracy in 14-18, too over with all its middle class banality and fear of anything ostentatious or splendid. Anyway, those photographs are touching: people of all races, sizes, shapes and colors in no end of different and resplendent dress uniforms posing shortly before plunging to their deaths in the merciless trenches which chewed up far more men every day than the Russian bombardment is currently doing.

It was the suicide of an era and we are now watching the final end result. There is almost nothing left of that Europe except perhaps in the more quirky, spunky characters of some of the older generation still left. As is well said: 'we don't make 'em like that any more!'

Whether or not they gave their lives in a noble cause, their sacrifice was noble. So it was then, and so it is today. Leaders in all systems are pretty much always corrupts. Thems the rools!

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2022 21:12 utc | 354

Only in an earthquake zone
Posted by: bottle | May 7 2022 14:39 utc | 324

I mentioned the scale model described in the article.

The shock waves produced by a nuclear explosion were not only powerful but their shapes changed as the waves went through the ground, the team said, adding that a suitable simulating platform required the right waves to arrive at the right place at the right time - a difficult achievement.

Li and his colleagues found that a tunnel buried 2km deep would be squeezed by the rocks around it with the average stress reaching more than 600kg (1,300lbs) per square centimetre (0.2 square inches).

In the scale model testing facility, sample blocks of various rock types were put into a machine applying pressure from all sides, with high-strength liquid-filled capsules placed between the plates and rock samples. The rocks were pressed over a long period until the structure stabilised before a tunnel could be bored slowly into the rocks to create a bunker.

A heavy metal bullet would be fired at the rocks from above, simulating the blast of a nuclear warhead with a yield up to 200 kilotons.

I found four articles that describing similar models and hypotheses, but am uncertain which is the best fit. I'm reasonable but not a geological engineer. That's why I asked the crew to read the issue.

Posted by: sln2002 | May 7 2022 21:27 utc | 355

i am better off not wading into all this...

Posted by: james | May 7 2022 15:35 utc | 335

Thanks James, i was just making an observation not wading in or expecting you to do same..

Posted by: K | May 7 2022 21:58 utc | 356

Comments are both informative and amusing. Camps have evolved that are certain how the Moskva sank, even though we don't know. Others complain about Russia not destroying incoming equipment completely even though that is no simple task in such a large country. Strategic planners lurk ready to correct the Russian invasion mistakes.

Truth is we are all along for the ride decided by others, who only release what information they choose to, sometimes true and sometimes fake. Wars are as fascinating to observe as they are repugnant. The relationship to sporting conflicts is apparent with fans.

Hopefully there will be an outcome that doesn't incinerate us all but leaves things slightly better than they were. Too many variables and too many potential outcomes.

Posted by: Organic | May 8 2022 2:32 utc | 357

I understand perfectly how some believe in the American self called superiority, for your controlled media dishes it out everyday.

Over many decades, I have seen you bomb and kill millions with impunity and think that you can defeat Russia and China. That is fantasy as in your Hollywood movies.

Tomorrow, Russia can stop all exports to the West and what will you do. Logistics is everything in a war and who is going to deliver fuel and supplies to the West?

During COVID-19 China mobilized millions of they're citizens and it includes training for an attack by USA. Who will the USA mobilized, even after promoting the hatred of Asians and now Russians?

Do not tell me that the majority of the racially oppressed coloured people in America gonna fight for you. Muhammad Ali said it best: "them yellow people they hate never did me no harm". Jail for 3 years. That is your legacy.

Posted by: Karl luck | May 8 2022 5:42 utc | 358

I understand perfectly how some believe in the American self called superiority, for your controlled media dishes it out everyday.

Over many decades, I have seen you bomb and kill millions with impunity and think that you can defeat Russia and China. That is fantasy as in your Hollywood movies.

Tomorrow, Russia can stop all exports to the West and what will you do. Logistics is everything in a war and who is going to deliver fuel and supplies to the West?

During COVID-19 China mobilized millions of they're citizens and it includes training for an attack by USA. Who will the USA mobilized, even after promoting the hatred of Asians and now Russians?

Do not tell me that the majority of the racially oppressed coloured people in America gonna fight for you. Muhammad Ali said it best: "them yellow people they hate never did me no harm". Jail for 3 years. That is your legacy.

Posted by: Karl luck | May 8 2022 5:42 utc | 359

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 7 2022 7:57 utc | 255



You know, in my more paranoid moments - which is to say, all the time - I begin to suspect the motives of people who post calls for Russia to do something that is likely guaranteed to start WWIII.

There is no motive in such calls, just stupidity.


Not that I'm against operating outside the conventional military paradigm.

That's it. Assymmetric warfare.


But deliberately escalating to the point of WWIII is just dumb if one doesn't know how one is going to survive the resulting consequences.

Not that. Never that. That's not the way to fight.


I don't know. So I get suspicious.

As well you should. But, the problem is this:

The West operates in a pincer movement. One "claw" of the movement is the slow strangulation applied over time, the kind of slow strangulation that weakens and isolates a culture and state, crushes an army long before it ever appears on the battle field.

The other "claw" of the pincer is the quick killing or wounding strike applied to key targets, either over time or in one go.

The enemies of the West are defeated by either one or the other , or both. Where a state is too powerful to be defeated by the second claw, it is defeated by the first.

Russia is in process of being crushed by the first claw, as valiantly as it's fighting. Unless it finds powerful methods of pushback, methods that bring the West close enough to the edge of the existential precipice that it withdraws from the conflict (as unlikely as that may be).

Either way, if the Russians don't collapse out of strangulation, one side or the other will be escalating to WW3, the one side if they don't get what they want, the other if they are cornered.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 8 2022 7:02 utc | 360

Posted by: Karl luck | May 8 2022 5:42 utc | 360



Do not tell me that the majority of the racially oppressed coloured people in America gonna fight for you. Muhammad Ali said it best: "them yellow people they hate never did me no harm". Jail for 3 years. That is your legacy.

Of course they are. Slavery never ended, it just got more palatable and reinforced by stupidity.

How else do you explain a black man, Lloyd Austin, leading the white man's imperial armies? That's what call a High Class, premium grade House Boy.


Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 8 2022 7:18 utc | 361


Regarding the Makarov, just an idea. I remember when the Yanks had "invested" in Thyssen Marine and in Kiel, Germany, Howalt shipyard. These guys really came with their photocopying machines and made such funny faces as they found out there are no more sketches :)…
Then this spooky takeover of the Athens shipyard of the Thyssen Marine facility by this Abu Dabai. Then Greece was economically put in chaines by the EU. Funny also that the CEO of Abu Dabai Shipyards was killed in an accident with a microlight in Morocco a few days later after the signing of the contract....
Anyway, these little things have excellent properties in terms of dwell time under water and are hard to track down. I can imagine that, given the small number of boats built, these little things were not really paid much attention.

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dolphin/

Posted by: Ted | May 8 2022 8:10 utc | 362

Posted by: Scorpion | May 6 2022 23:56 utc | 166

Posted by: Tom_12 | May 7 2022 12:38 utc | 299

My Russian friends have been telling me Kirill is just a big businessman for years.

Not surprising since the christian church is corrupt from skin to core, and that goes for all christian churches.

Nobody should hold the Russian Orthodox church, let alone any church in any kind of regard.

Man is corrupt.
His institutions are corrupt.
His pretenses at holiness are corrupt.
His aspirations to godliness are corrupt.
As is any tree grown from Original sin.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 8 2022 10:02 utc | 363

Why the hell are not the germans kicking this ungrateful fcker out?

Germany is finished with this people it has currently elected as their political "responsible". Just listen their words (if you have the patience) I think there must have been something in the vaccine.

Posted by: ted | May 8 2022 11:25 utc | 364

Posted by: DunGroanin | May 7 2022 8:16 utc

All of a sudden I feel this strange compulsion to put some of 'The Stranglers' on.

Thank you.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | May 8 2022 12:55 utc | 365

Posted by: Antiwar Dinosaur | May 7 2022 1:37 utc | 193
"FWIW that's my CounterPunch story. It's too bad that St. Clair messed it up...it used to be a solid read."

I can sympathize; I myself got badly stung by St. Clair in a business deal quite a few years ago.

You cannot trust him.

Posted by: AntiSpin | May 8 2022 16:14 utc | 366

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