Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
The open thread for other issues is here.
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May 22, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-71
Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict … The open thread for other issues is here.
Comments
@ Peter AU1 | May 22 2022 23:55 utc | 207 Posted by: MarkU | May 23 2022 0:10 utc | 201
My understanding is that elensky is literally surrounded and “protected” by Nazis. He won’t be in a position to surrender Ukronaziland to anyone. Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 0:13 utc | 202
So Russia can obliterate any Polish presence in 404 and the West (and Poland in particular) would have no grounds to complain? I’ll drink to that! Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 0:15 utc | 203 Whatever else Trotsky’s ideas were they were, like Rosa Luxemburg’s, totally opposed to imperialism. Posted by: Vintage Red | May 23 2022 0:17 utc | 204 In the end, the economy will talk. Posted by: Nervous German | May 23 2022 0:18 utc | 205 The dominant narratives that structured the world, especially after WW2, are over
Posted by: sln2002 | May 23 2022 0:20 utc | 206 For sure the global power of the dollar, and of globalist institutions starting but by no means ending with the IMF and World Bank, needs to be broken. Posted by: Vintage Red | May 23 2022 0:21 utc | 207 @ malenkov | May 23 2022 0:15 utc | 212 Posted by: MarkU | May 23 2022 0:24 utc | 208
Translation: Keep up the slow-motion grinding down of the Ukrops, make the west pour in moar Gazillions of dollars and euros! Posted by: Nervous German | May 23 2022 0:26 utc | 209 I want to see you cheerleading the next American invasion of Panama and Cuba. Posted by: Dadda | May 23 2022 0:29 utc | 210 @ MarkU | May 23 2022 0:24 utc | 217 Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 0:30 utc | 211
But re Cuba: We tried, Lord knows we tried! Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 0:33 utc | 212 MarkU @189: “But will Zelensky ever be a free agent? can he be trusted anyway? I’m not convinced the Ukrainian/US side is agreement capable.” Posted by: William Gruff | May 23 2022 0:36 utc | 213 @ malenkov | May 23 2022 0:30 utc | 219 Posted by: MarkU | May 23 2022 0:37 utc | 214
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Jews and the Banderites had bad blood dating back to WW2 as well, but look at them now. Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 0:41 utc | 215 @ William Gruff | May 23 2022 0:36 utc | 221 Posted by: MarkU | May 23 2022 0:42 utc | 216 @ malenkov | May 23 2022 0:41 utc | 223 Posted by: MarkU | May 23 2022 0:47 utc | 217 MarkU @224 Posted by: William Gruff | May 23 2022 0:53 utc | 218 Posted by: Trotzki | May 22 2022 14:28 utc | 35 Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 23 2022 0:54 utc | 219
. . . my point being that when it comes to political advantage, there are few groups of people who will not extend the hand of friendship and brotherhood to those who raped and killed their mothers and sisters (and baby brothers) in order to do the same to a new enemy. Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 1:03 utc | 220 For any interested, tomorrow (23 May), 2pm US/Canada East Coast time: Posted by: Vintage Red | May 23 2022 1:05 utc | 221 @ Bad Deal Motors On | May 23 2022 0:54 utc | 227 Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 1:06 utc | 222 Posted by: William Gruff | May 23 2022 0:36 utc | 221 Note: When the Soviet Union was dissolved nearly 100% of the households in the Ukraine had what the UN called “improved water”, which is sanitized and drinkable indoor running water. In 2011 that was down to 87% of Ukrainian households. Obviously the percentage of households with drinkable indoor water is much lower now, though no figures have been published that I can find since 2011. Posted by: William Gruff | May 23 2022 1:34 utc | 225 Scorpion @232 Posted by: William Gruff | May 23 2022 1:37 utc | 226 William Gruff @ 221: Posted by: Jen | May 23 2022 1:40 utc | 227 Posted by: Trotzki | May 22 2022 14:28 utc | 35 Posted by: Bearish Panda | May 23 2022 1:43 utc | 228 Posted by: William Gruff | May 23 2022 0:36 utc | 221 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 1:46 utc | 229 “The general sighed, and the lines on the map, moved from side to side.” Pink Floyd, “Us and Them” Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 23 2022 1:48 utc | 230 Posted by: Vintage Red | May 23 2022 1:05 utc | 229 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 1:48 utc | 231 sln2002 @ 201 Posted by: circumspect | May 23 2022 1:49 utc | 232 From Pepe Escobar’s Telegram channel, forwarded from Eurasia and Multipolarity…
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 1:52 utc | 233
Gandhi : Western civilization :: me : peace movement Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 1:55 utc | 234 William Gruff @ 234 Posted by: Objective Observer | May 23 2022 1:59 utc | 235 Comment from https://t.me/polkovnik_hodarenok Telegram channel on the German “Marder” armored fighting vehicle being sent to Ukraine… Anyone riding in these things will become a “martyr” for Ukraine…
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 2:06 utc | 236 lmao Posted by: michaelj72 | May 23 2022 2:08 utc | 237 Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 23 2022 0:54 utc | 227 FZappa, is that a real pancho or is that a Sears Pancho? Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 23 2022 2:10 utc | 239
Well, speaking of mandarins, I myself can’t help thinking of elensky as a sort of latter-day Pu Yi, except that the latter actually seemed occasionally disturbed by the destruction of his people. Well, at least in the Bertolucci film. Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 2:23 utc | 242 malenkov @ 250 Posted by: Objective Observer | May 23 2022 2:29 utc | 243 re Duda: “Ukraine is the face of Europe! The defender of the big European family!” Posted by: Don Bacon | May 23 2022 2:35 utc | 244 @ Objective Observer | May 23 2022 2:29 utc | 251 Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 2:36 utc | 245 Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 23 2022 2:10 utc | 247 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 2:43 utc | 246 From Sputnik News Telegram channel… So much for any Ukraine “concessions”… As I said, there will be no peace talks, no matter what happens. Ukraine can surrender to Russia or die. Period. End of story.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 2:45 utc | 247 From southfront:
What? Polish have enterred the fighting? Posted by: jared | May 23 2022 2:47 utc | 248 Duda might be a dumb psycho, but are Polish would-be soldiers on board with jumping into the Ukraine grinder ? Posted by: Featherless | May 23 2022 2:50 utc | 249 Posted by: leandro | May 22 2022 16:53 utc | 97 Posted by: Seer | May 23 2022 2:55 utc | 250 United National Antiwar Coalition webinar: Posted by: K | May 23 2022 3:08 utc | 251
In all fairness, I think it should be noted that while Ajamu Baraka isn’t exactly thrilled about the Russian operation in 404, he sees it as a last-ditch reaction to American imperialism, which he bitterly opposes. Oh, and he condemns in no uncertain terms 404 racism and the West’s cover-up of same. Posted by: malenkov | May 23 2022 3:18 utc | 252 @karlof1 #203
If there is reliable agreement viz Indivisible Security then NATO is redundant along with the 1997 border notion. Without the latter, achieving the former is probably only something hard liners would be pushing for and in any case a longshot.
I hope that multigenerational business is wrong and that a financial and politico-social collapse can bring about a tipping point in the West ushering in substantive reforms in a matter of years not decades otherwise nuclear war will be far more likely. Richard Medhurst Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 23 2022 3:25 utc | 254 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uAh_u6KpScM Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 23 2022 0:54 utc | 227 Posted by: Seer | May 23 2022 3:40 utc | 256 Posted by: c1ue | May 22 2022 16:24 utc | 85 Posted by: ETA | May 23 2022 3:46 utc | 257 Forgive if this is old thought but reading Southfront ‘s daily summary which features news of Polish forces moving from Kiev into Donbass theater: uncle tungsten | May 23 2022 3:25 utc | 262 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 23 2022 3:55 utc | 259 Thank you all, for not using the useless “I mean”, before making your points. Posted by: Cadence calls | May 23 2022 3:56 utc | 260 I wish I understood both Russian and Chinese polity better. In any case, if the State serves the common good well, fine, but if it veers into totalitarianism there must be effective and relatively easy ways to self correct. Posted by: K | May 23 2022 3:56 utc | 261 Scorpion #266
The galician apples this year are infested with nazi grub and it is heading into Poland as we write. The apple trees are soon to be managed by Putin’s buddies and they will be looking after whatever fruit remains. Plus ensuring the complete eradication of the pest. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 23 2022 3:59 utc | 262 Cadence calls | May 23 2022 3:56 utc | 268 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 23 2022 4:02 utc | 263 Hey, Posted by: Cadence Calls | May 23 2022 4:05 utc | 264 To Trotzki: There is absolutely nothing defendable that you can say or ignore about the wars that Jews and the west have unleashed on this planet. Richard Steven Hack | May 22 2022 23:53 utc | 206 Posted by: Doug Hillman | May 23 2022 4:09 utc | 266 I do appreciate the high level of diction and discourse at the bar. Posted by: Cadence calls | May 23 2022 4:13 utc | 267 May 23 2022 3:59 utc | 270 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 23 2022 4:15 utc | 268 I’m a “literally” purist. Posted by: Cadence Calls | May 23 2022 4:26 utc | 269 Cadence Calls | May 23 2022 4:26 utc | 277 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 23 2022 4:33 utc | 270 Richard Steven Hack@204 Posted by: bevin | May 23 2022 4:34 utc | 271 G..g..general Zod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhO9XCETjgg Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 23 2022 4:45 utc | 272 Posted by: jared | May 23 2022 2:47 utc | 256 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 4:47 utc | 273 i am cool with non conformity…. i got a laugh out of cadence calls ‘i mean’ concept… here is a monk tune for you cadence calls… Posted by: james | May 23 2022 4:50 utc | 274 Posted by: bevin | May 23 2022 4:34 utc | 279 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 4:54 utc | 275 @ 263 Scorpion – I remember you mentioning that your handle came from the critters in Mexico, but there was a certain band from Germany… I’ll just be a bit of a cheerleader on the ol’ MoA (like James from Canada.) I try not to clutter threads with music or other stuff that derails the conversations, but I couldn’t help myself, especially that this is at the end of the conversation. Posted by: lex taliionis | May 23 2022 4:56 utc | 276 @ Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 2:43 utc | 254
Granted but he’s a terrible drag queen performer: he can’t lip-sync worth a damn and he’s a stiffened corpse when it comes to choreography. 😉 Posted by: majoab | May 23 2022 5:01 utc | 277 @ lex taliionis | May 23 2022 4:56 utc | 284 Posted by: james | May 23 2022 5:03 utc | 278 Posted by: majoab | May 23 2022 5:01 utc | 285 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 5:12 utc | 279 Cheers, James. Posted by: Cadence calls | May 23 2022 5:18 utc | 280 Someone woke up in Germany: Ein Gespräch mit Oskar Lafontaine: Posted by: Antonym | May 23 2022 5:20 utc | 281 From the above interview with Lafontaine: Posted by: Antonym | May 23 2022 5:24 utc | 282 Hey james – we’re at the end of a thread, so I’ll chime in regarding music. Posted by: lex talionis | May 23 2022 5:28 utc | 283 “Wouldn’t waste my time with that one. The ‘peace movement’ is irrelevant to anything. The fact that Ritter is showing up for that is interesting. Now he’s becoming a ‘peacenik’? Posted by: Vintage Red | May 23 2022 5:44 utc | 284 @ 290 – I just did a translate on your post. God help us all. I am a believer, too. Posted by: lex talionis | May 23 2022 5:47 utc | 285 Posted by: lex taliionis | May 23 2022 4:56 utc | 284 Posted by: Paco | May 23 2022 6:03 utc | 286 This is very important! Here Scott Ritter very good explains why the game is changing to a bigger conflict in Ukrainan war. Posted by: Mikkado | May 23 2022 6:05 utc | 287 Hola Paco, Posted by: lex talionis | May 23 2022 6:20 utc | 288 @ bevin #279 Posted by: lex taliionis | May 23 2022 4:56 utc | 284 Posted by: Scorpion | May 23 2022 6:36 utc | 290 Posted by: Vintage Red | May 23 2022 5:44 utc | 292 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 7:01 utc | 291 Posted by: Mikkado | May 23 2022 6:05 utc | 295 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 7:03 utc | 292 Sputnik – According to the WSJ, special forces units will have to guard the newly opened American embassy. Posted by: rk | May 23 2022 7:04 utc | 293 From Sputnik News Telegram channel…
Pentagon Weighs Deploying Special Forces to Guard Kyiv Embassy Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 7:08 utc | 294 Posted by: rk | May 23 2022 7:04 utc | 301 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 7:09 utc | 295 It seems the Polish will have these new rights when they get into law in Ukr Posted by: rk | May 23 2022 7:11 utc | 296 Posted by: rk | May 23 2022 7:11 utc | 304 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 23 2022 7:14 utc | 297 It’s weird because it’s not clear what will be the end of the operation. If they stop at Dnieper, I’m sure military bases from nato or, at least Poland, will appear in Kiev-Lviv region. Posted by: rk | May 23 2022 7:31 utc | 298 The problem with Ritter is that he thinks this means Russia has already lost, both in Ukraine (if not in Donbass, which is the only place he thinks Russia will win) and in the wider conflict against NATO Posted by: K | May 23 2022 7:37 utc | 299 Posted by: rk | May 23 2022 7:11 utc | 304 Posted by: pppp | May 23 2022 7:42 utc | 300 |
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