Re “why aren’t the cauldrons closed”
I suspect it’s because of the sheer density of the fortifications and trench networks the Ukrainians have built over the last 8 years. Every one of these structures will have ranged kill zones and intersecting fields of fire and those Javelins they are using have a range of 4000 meters.
Everyone expected the Russians to use the “deep battle” tactics they are famous for … including the Ukrainians. They built a defence to make it difficult for the Russians to penetrate and encircle so the Russians are using different tactics.
If you recall in 1943 the Soviets used similar defensive networks to blunt the German blitzkrieg at Kursk … the Ukrainians were there too. Fortunately the Russians aren’t running into the trap … they’re being patient. It’ll take time to untie this knot.

Posted by: dave_k | May 19 2022 19:30 utc | 103

Russian army // National guard of Russia // LDPR forces (National militia)
The Russian army provides almost no material (video etc.) for outside observers. Journalists usually are directed towards LDPR forces. Bloggers and soldiers with smartphone exist only within the latter two branches.
Mariupol has been taken by all 3 branches of the allies. RA from the West, providing the big artillery, aviation and naval forces. A large part of the urban warfare has been done by the other two branches.
As for the Chechens – the Hero of Russia Akhmet Kadyrov regiment is part of the National guard of Russia. Ramzan Kadyrov holds a rank of Lieutenent General within these troops. Every few days a couple hundred new volonteers depart from Grozny to join the “regiment” (as shown in Chechenian TV [grozny.tv]). The reason is, in Gudermes, not far from Grozny, there is the “University of Special Forces of Russia”. Volonteers from all over Russia get a training here (didn’t find out how long, but out of the interviews it seems like ~2 weeks). No boys, the majority of these men is well beyond 40.

Posted by: BG13 | May 19 2022 19:39 utc | 105

Posted by: BG13 | May 19 2022 19:39 utc | 104
Many thanks for the reminder that the Chechens have provided a HUGE contribution. It’s a story that begs out to be written…

Posted by: Seer | May 19 2022 19:50 utc | 107

The Russian POW tried for war crimes in Kiev was convicted of killing a 62 yr old man who was using a cell phone. The Russian troops feared that he was giving away their location and the soldier was ordered to shoot.
Looking back at the Iraq war and the US RoE (Rules of Engagement) wikileaks highlights some ambiguities that gave almost carte blanche for US troops to use lethal force:
“Another interesting feature of the ROE is a complete ignoring of the language barriers separating U.S. troops from the Iraqi populace. Thus, in a section on graduated force, the first stage is “shout verbal warnings to halt.” There is not even a mention of the fact that most Iraqis cannot understand warnings shouted in English. In general, the ROE is notable for lacking any recognition that, in an “insurgency,” there are at best blurry boundaries between combatants and noncombatants. Thus, there is no emphasis of the need to take extraordinary measures to protect the civilian population. Rather, it provides a rationale for virtually any attacks:
“US Forces may always use force, up to and including deadly force, to neutralize and/or detain individuals who commit hostile acts or exhibit hostile intent against US Forces or Coalition Forces.”
As we have seen repeatedly, from the numerous roadblock killings of civilians to the Haditha massacre, this ROE authorization to use force can be used to provide cover for virtually any civilian killings. The ROE suggests that preventing such deaths was low on the priority list of those officials writing the rules of engagement for the occupation. Even so, a military study found that less than half of US occupation soldiers would report a unit member for violating an ROE. Thus, even the limited protections provided civilians in the ROE were often not present on the ground. ”
How many US troops were prosecuted for war crimes? I recall a handful of soldiers who engaged in a truly despicable killing of civilians were tried, and, if I recall correctly, all were found innocent.
Now consider just the fact that Ukrainian troops have uploaded videos of themselves executing Russian POWs – no western media coverage, no trials, but this one poor Russian kid is all over the western Media.

Posted by: the pessimist | May 19 2022 20:06 utc | 109

crap 😛

Posted by: the pessimist | May 19 2022 20:18 utc | 111

“To “njet”:
Maybe they function so well as “kill zones” and as magnets for nazi/”Ukrainian” efforts that the Allies don’t want to close them?…
(In its own different way it is much more impressive than anything I imagined).”
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | May 19 2022 15:16 utc | 31
I know next to nothing about military. I read early on that Russia’s military approach in field emulates water. I imagine this means to flow around where the enemy is dense and fill in where he is empty.
I also know they like chess and suspect some study Sun Tsu and Go. Or put it thi way:
You have a half moon Cauldron. If the enemy advances down the middle you gradually surround. If the enemy retreats you either stay put or advance maintaining overall Cauldron. When attacking you can begin on both wings and then bring center forward for the kill. And so on. The trick seems to involve remaining fluid.
And if the enemy is not fluid, ie dug into one reinforced spot near Donensk, then pound away letting your bombardment and their inertia so deplete their morale that either retreat or surrender become inevitable as now seems the case. Fresh troops shipped in against hardened troops will only be, I suspect, cannon fodder for RF and Donbas troops, but good for a few more days positive spin in Western media wherein most of the Western population, elites and commoners, seem to have their heads trapped.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 19 2022 20:32 utc | 113

Everyone,
According to Ritter’s Wikipedia (Source Referenced) Page:
A) Ritter worked with ISR Intel while at the UN;
B) Ritter worked with MI6 on Projects;
C) Ritter served a Prison Sentence which was a result of him getting caught in several “Pedophile Sting” Operations.
*People from ‘A’ and ‘B’ aren’t “Friendly” to RUS and Russian-Speaking UKRanians.
*People from ‘C’ may have previously, currently, or possibly in the Future – Leveraged his Parole Status or “Other Activities still undisclosed”.
Ritter is Compromised – just from ‘A’ and ‘B’ – who could be feeding him Fake Intel or Manipulating Him. ‘C’ would have Ritter Disqualified from being on Air/Streaming as an Intel Analyst – if I were a Govt/PMC or Media Exec/Director.
Granted, these are mostly BlogRoll sites and the occasional RT/CGTN Vids he USED to be on.
ALSO,
Current RUS SpecMilOps in UKR aren’t the Type of Fighting Murica have been engaging – Precision Strike Missions on Military Platforms/Troops/Infrastructure while protecting Civilians+CivilInfrastructure. Anyone recall Humanitarian Corridors in AFG? IRQ? YEM?, LBY? SYR?
Anyone here see Murica surround Adversaries and offer them chances to Surrender recently?
Besides, UKR_Military+Bandera-Nazi are using Civilians as Human Shields.
RUS are going to protect “NovoRussia”(DPR+LNR+NewlyJoinedSecessionists) and Russian-Speakers. Once “NovoRussia” are Partitioned, The Willing All Joined In, and Secured, RUS can take their Time with their De-Militarization and De-Nazification.

Posted by: IronForge | May 19 2022 20:40 utc | 115

Here’s a pretty darn good opinion piece called “With a $40 billion plan, the US is setting itself up for an expensive failure in Ukraine” by a fella named Scott Ritter. There ya go.
https://www.rt.com/news/555674-american-military-aid-trap/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 19 2022 20:44 utc | 117

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 19 2022 16:41 utc | 61
“Do you want a drink, Vincent”
“I’m OK, I’ve got one ‘ere.”
(You may need to be English to see the necessary nuance of language, hence the joke.)

Posted by: G | May 19 2022 20:48 utc | 119

Posted by: Boomheist | May 19 2022 14:13 utc | 11
Re the commentary of Alexander Mercouris:
The curious fact is that Mr. Mercouris presents an example of that phenomenon of consistency turning “vices” into “virtues” over time. Despite his almost absurdly Received speech (a class accent that can sound comical to the American ear), his measured, formal elucidation of facts, non-facts, speculation, and analysis come to sparkle with clarity and honesty compared to the rhetoric of more tendentious commentators. Like his Duran colleague Alex Christoforou, whose style is very different — free-swinging, colloquial, American — he tries to never stray far from the reality at hand, and they are always willing to acknowledge both uncertain inferences and out-and-out mistakes. Their clear-eyed attention to what everybody else seems determined to distract you from makes a review of their channels a daily must.

Posted by: Emily Dickinson | May 19 2022 20:51 utc | 121

My 2 cents on Ritter, he’s a victim of the internet age and caught up in the frenzy, he reports much too often, every couple days even. He needs to be more old school typewriter meditative like Crooke and Escobar, report every 2-3 weeks, let stuff gel and coalesce a bit before offering up analysis.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2022 20:57 utc | 123

Global famine likely this year – Putin aide
Washington’s attempts to take over Ukraine’s grain may lead to a food crisis, according to the Russian official.
https://www.rt.com/business/555740-globe-hunger-us-ukraine/
The trifecta: first Plague, now brewing again in China and NY State: now War, possibly also soon in Tsiwan-China; and right on cue comes now Famine.
All pure coincidence of course. Acts of God…

Posted by: Scorpion | May 19 2022 21:21 utc | 125

George W Bush just made the mother of all Freudian slips.
oops

Posted by: lex talionis | May 19 2022 21:36 utc | 127

“…One should not forget that 73% of Ukrainians voted for Zelensky in 2019 as a peace candidate who promised to implement the Minsk Accords, and thereby to put an end to the civil war in the Donbas, and to reintegrate the dissident Donetsk and Lugansk republics into what would become a newly federalized and bilingual Ukrainian state…”
Posted by: Michael Keefer | May 19 2022 15:20 utc | 33
Thanks, Micheal Keefer. I am struck by the comparison to the election of Barack Obama in the US. We here had an overwhelmingly positive youth vote, and the anticipation of his ‘change we could believe in’ upon becoming president was the greatest in my recent memory. He was young enough to have been the flag bearer of youthful expectation, and even I, an elder then and now, still cannot come to grips with that loss. Et tu mentioned ‘those calling every Ukrainian a Nazi’. I can’t think of any recent post here that would; and we in the US ought indeed to call 75% of Ukranians brethren, because they are.
We have been there, done that. May we both see better times!

Posted by: juliania | May 19 2022 21:47 utc | 129

Posted by: Stonebird | May 19 2022 19:23 utc | 96
“Zapping away without stopping, or anyone there to stop them.”
Apart from a concrete-munching hypersonic, perhaps? Burp.

Posted by: Mongo | May 19 2022 21:49 utc | 131

@IronForge | May 19 2022 20:40 utc
About Scott Ritter’s “pedophilia” conviction.
Wikipedia:

Ritter was the subject in two law enforcement sting operations in 2001. He was charged in June 2001 with trying to set up a meeting with an undercover police officer posing as a 16-year-old girl. He was charged with a misdemeanor crime of “attempted endangerment of the welfare of a child”. The charge was dismissed and the record was sealed after he completed six months of pre-trial probation.
(…) Ritter was arrested again in November 2009 over communications with a police decoy he met on an Internet chat site. Police said that he exposed himself, via a web camera, after the officer repeatedly identified himself as a 15-year-old girl. Ritter said in his own testimony during the trial that he believed the other party was an adult acting out her fantasy. (…) Charges included “unlawful contact with a minor, criminal use of a communications facility, corruption of minors, indecent exposure, possessing instruments of crime, criminal attempt and criminal solicitation”

Fortunately, there are legal systems that do not accept that the role of public authorities is to provoke citizens to commit crimes.
In France, a person had been convicted after connecting to a child pornography site maintained by the American authorities. Pedophile images were found on his computer.
The decision of the Court of Appeal to convict him was overturned by a decision of the Criminal Division of the Court of Cassation on June 4, 2008. The role of the Court of Cassation is to judge whether judicial decisions comply with the rules of law. In this case, it ruled on the basis of the following rules:

Having regard to article 6 § 1 of the European Convention on Human Rights and the preliminary article of the code of criminal procedure, together with the principle of fairness of evidence;
Whereas the principle of fairness of evidence and the right to a fair trial is infringed by the provocation to commit an offence by an agent of the public authorities, in the absence of previous elements allowing to suspect its existence; whereas the unfairness of such a procedure renders the evidence thus obtained inadmissible in court, even if this stratagem would have allowed the discovery of other offences already committed or in the process of being committed (…)

The Court of Cassation decided that “the discovery of the possession of pornographic images was only made possible by the provocation to commit an offense organized by the American authorities and whose results had been transmitted to the French authorities”. The evidence was therefore not admissible in court.
https://tinyurl.com/y4kty38d

Posted by: Leuk | May 19 2022 22:01 utc | 133

K @133
Also, the Viets were fighting America. Whereas Russia is a totally different proposition – as history shows.

Posted by: cdvision | May 19 2022 22:19 utc | 135

@William Gruff; #47:
Thanks for the short film clip. As an ethnic Chinese, this clip reminds me of the situation regarding Taiwan for China. It hasn’t yet been pushed to the same state of ugliness, but the nature of the tragedy is the same in principle, at the hands of the same Lucifer.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | May 19 2022 22:45 utc | 137

William Gruff @131–
Thanks for your reply on the previous thread. As for returns, Neoliberals always take their profits/graft first and wheedle it away for the outcomes are never certain.
Lex @135–
Thanks for your reply. The Swedes and Fins were offered NATO long ago but had leaders that knew better. Currently, Turkey, Hungary and Croatia oppose their becoming members. Russia’s reply implying it’s not concerned ought to raise red flags as the greater solution is probably part of the overall plan.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 19 2022 23:00 utc | 139

“Perhaps many Ukies didn’t get the memo: today’s Russians aren’t the same as their grandparents and great grandparents Bolshevik Communists.” Scorpion@119
Their great grandparents are likely to have been Communists. The Ukrainian SSR was a central part of the Soviet Union and supplied not only party members but millions of soldiers. It is a mistake to believe the fascist propaganda that Ukrainians hated the Soviet Union. All polls and elections have shown that most Ukrainians wish to allied with Russia and are opposed to the EU and NATO.
You really ought to read the WSWS series on Ukraine- you don’t need to join the Fourth International, you can skim past the bits that you don’t like but the information on Ukrainian nationalism and its long history since 1918 is invaluable.
“A lot of blood on the walls in that part of the world….”
There is a lot of blood on the walls in most parts of the world. In Ukraine this is complicated by the reality of massive propaganda campaigns aimed against both Russia and communism that have made it extremely difficult to look at either objectively.
The ideology of the current Kiev regime is almost entirely based on fascist propaganda supported by a NATO that is currently composed largely of states whose governments in 1941 fought under German command in Barbarossa. In fact the New Europe is very close to being the Europe that Hitler dreamed of united behind the aim of breaking up and looting Russia.

Posted by: bevin | May 19 2022 23:17 utc | 141

the pessimist @ 109
Speaking in Brussels on Thursday, NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander Europe, Tod Wolters, expressed his hope that the talks between Gerasimov and Milley would bring a diplomatic solution to the ongoing crisis one step closer.
Interesting that they are talking but the DOD is not going to be cutting a peace deal. They are probably interested in buying time for their allies.
If that is the case then the military side of the Empire must see how truly awful things have become. Is it possible they see a possible collapse of resistance East of the Dnieper? Is the military side of the Ukraine leadership fed up and feeding back to NATO their grievances? Are they tired of the hand me down leftovers operational supply chain? Have the NATO Nazi special purpose battalions lost some power and influence?
Why would the respective military leaders of the Empire be seeking diplomatic solutions? The political side of the Empire is obviously dead set against any agreement but they are not the ones doing the shooting, they are just paying the bills.
Something very strange is going on here.

Posted by: circumspect | May 19 2022 23:34 utc | 143

#132 Leuk | May 19 2022 22:01 utc
WTF are you yammering about Court Technicalities of earlier Arrests and Trials that DIDN’T put him in Prison?
Go to his Wikipedia Page. He was Arrested AGAIN in late 2009; and then Convicted of Charges to be sent to serve his Prison Term.
He was snared in SEVERAL Pedophile Sting Operations. Went to PRISON. Entities knowledgeable about his “Excursions”, Arrests, Prosecutions, and Incarceration – may have in the Past, may be now, and/or may in the Future Leverage their Knowledge/Legal/Prosecutorial Position to Manipulate/Coerce his “Work”.
He’s been Compromised to provide Sound Analyses in ANYTHING related to RUS Military Engagements by his Work Connections – AND – from his Prison Sentence.
Ritter isn’t in UKR. We’re better off discerning Intel Slava Z and RUS MoD Feeds on Telegram.

Posted by: IronForge | May 19 2022 23:46 utc | 145

1/ It is sad to see IronForge completing the smears and justifying the FBI’s politically motivated framing of Scott Ritter.
Scott was as much a victim of a sting operation as Assange was in Sweden. Any convictions recorded against him were judicial travesties of the kind for which the US has long been famous.
The truth is that Ritter was made to suffer not because he was an agent of the state but because he refused to stop telling the truth despite pressure from his former employers.
For this courage and integrity he receives, as his reward, libels without evidence and smears from a pretended opposition which are much more damaging than those from the state.
Whether Ritter’s latest assessment of the course of the Special Operation are right or wrong time will tell- there is no evidence whatever that it is the result of pressure or blackmail. And every likelihood, given a long and publicly known track record, that it is his honest opinion.
It is not mine, but I can live with people I respect disagreeing. And being wrong.
2/ According to a well known Russian news source
“…President Joe Biden’s administration is reportedly maneuvering to send more advanced anti-ship missiles to Ukraine to help the former Soviet republic break a Russian naval blockade of its Black Sea ports.”
If true, which is likely it will make it necessary for Russia to take Odessa and the Black Sea coastline, simply to protect New Russia and its fleet.

Posted by: bevin | May 20 2022 0:04 utc | 147

The US has now demanded direct control over troops in Ukraine, bypassing the Ukrainian high command. (This in my eyes makes them direct participants in the war)

I would love a source for this. Much appreciated.

Posted by: Lurker | May 20 2022 0:34 utc | 149

the pessimist | May 19 2022 20:06 utc | 108
The poor kid most likely agreed to the script to try and avoid having an eye gouged out and being knee shot and left to die. I not sure even that will save him the same fate that is dished out to most Russians captured by the nazi’s.
Back in 2014-2015, the prisoner exchanges between Donbas ad Ukraine – Donbas would exchange many for just a few of their own who although still alive had to be carried back on stretchers.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 20 2022 0:42 utc | 151

Oceania is applying the “Zapp Branigan” strategy, using its slaves in Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF3g4Ua5e7k

Posted by: doubting tomas | May 20 2022 0:48 utc | 153

@ Posted by: IronForge | May 19 2022 23:46 utc | 144
You are suggesting he could be coerced regarding information which apparently is public knowledge. Intel Slava is unknown individuals posting random haphazard videos from cell phones.

Posted by: jared | May 20 2022 0:54 utc | 155

I think Ritter is wrong for one reason:the quickest way for the Ukrainians to build up their military is to agree to an immediate cease fire. They could bring back their combats units for rest and refit and start rebuilding their infrastructure.
At this point I think continuing the conflict is an act of sheer stupidity. Its an absolute waste of trained personnel and equipment to attempt to integrate these assets existing units in the middle of combat.
Given their force superiority the longer the Russians stay the better they understand their enemies and the easier it for them to bring that force to bear.
The Ukrainians in the meantime are seeing their units surrounded and having their entire logistics chain broken. It’s going to be hard to sustain operations without food,fuel,ammo and weapons.
Never mind the constant artillery and missile bombardment by Russian units.
The West is stupid if they gave the Ukrainians a few years to rebuild I could definitely see a revitalized Ukrainian military posing a challenge to Russia.
But in the meantime until operations are stopped the Ukrainians are just feeding their men and machines into a giant meat grinder. Of course all of this is occurring while the Russians destroy their country.
These people are so stupid. They could become a terrible threat to Russia if they just stopped the war but instead they are giving the Russians a great excuse to destroy Ukraine.
Morons.

Posted by: ALex | May 20 2022 0:55 utc | 157

K@133 – “But none of those countries were being force fed munitions and soldiers by the US Empire et al. So I fail to see what comparison you are making? They all won through due to grit and determination of the people not willing to be colonised, and strong leadership.”
The North Vietnamese and Vietcong were being supplied with tons upon tons of Soviet and Chinese weapons, ammunition and equipment. North Vietnam weapons/ammunition production was negligible throughout the war. The Vietcong operating in South Vietnam were well supplied via the Ho Chi Minh trail – a logistics pipeline that the U.S. was unable to cut or disrupt to any great degree despite the massive amount of firepower and effort for years devoted to precisely that task. There was also the political problem of the Ho Chi Minh Trail mostly being in countries that the U.S. and South Vietnam were not at war with.
I’m not comparing the nature of the fighting in Vietnam to Ukraine, only the untenable position of a far superior military (U.S. in Vietnam, Russia in Ukraine) conducting limited operations to rout an arguably militarily inferior (albeit determined) but well-supplied adversary. An adversary supplied to a great degree through territory of countries not party to the war. It then becomes about the political will of the more powerful side to continue to engage in a limited but prolonged war of attrition hoping the other side capitulates. To their credit, North Vietnam simply wouldn’t capitulate. Ukraine? Their will doesn’t matter – US/ZATO will make sure *someone* is fighting Russians in Ukraine under a Ukrainian flag, and my leaders in the U.S. are willing to spend far more than $40 billion to do that.
For heavens sake, I’m not arguing that Russia *should* go full-retard, mobilize their entire military and roll through all of Ukraine. It’s just that the US/ZATO can feed Ukraine all the troops (indirectly), equipment and ammunition it needs to bleed Russia regardless of Russia’s territorial gains *or* the political will of the current leaders in Ukraine (because they’re quite replaceable).

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 20 2022 1:07 utc | 159

A walk through of Azov headquarters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSKqqw511do
Check the graffiti on the walls as they are going up the stairs. A little Russia trolling there with the three formations operating in the SMO – Z group, O group and V group. ZOV

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 20 2022 1:19 utc | 161

PavewayIW @ 158
The analogy of Vietnam with Ukraine as a prescription for this type of conflict falls down with the case of Afghanistan, where the reverse happened. Despite massive funding, training, equipping, even direct boots on the ground the Afghan regime lasted only hours once the US ran for the hills.
Yemen is another case in point: despite massive supply to the Saudis, by the US and others, and no doubt direct support on the ground, the Houthi handed them their ass.
Two factors are common in all these proxy wars: first, America loses; second: an unjust cause loses.

Posted by: cdvision | May 20 2022 1:32 utc | 163

PavewayIV | May 20 2022 1:07 utc | 158
Further back in the thread there mention of Zelensky receiving a overwhelming majority of the votes because he ran as President for peace.
US propaganda about training a new Ukrainian army is just that and directed as much at the Ukrainian canon fodder, to try and keep them fighting to the last Ukrainian to impose a ‘cost’on Russia.
Putin also understands the majority of people want peace. I doubt the current US/UK controlled Government in Kiev will last much past this phase of the operation which is the clearing of Donetsk ad Luhansk administrative districts.
I believe the military aspect will take a pause at the end of this phase and let the physiological worm turn for awhile.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 20 2022 1:40 utc | 165

Here in Hamilton Ontario we have a visible influx of Ukrainian refugees.
Several families in the building where I live.
My building is designated as a refugee residence. It used to be strictly seniors building but for the last several years as the people move into old age homes; all open apartments go to refugees. Most are from Somalia and Syria.
My sister lives in a duplex down the street and the people who just moved in downstairs are refugees from Hungary? They speak no english except to call the black kids playing in the street Niggers.
They know that word in English.
I am the only one out of many family members and friends who does not wear the 25 dollar ‘I support Ukraine bracelet’ or fly the yellow and blue flag on my car.
I think Scott Ritter got told.

Posted by: ld | May 20 2022 1:43 utc | 167

Posted by: Et Tu | May 19 2022 13:36 utc | 3
Ukrainian factory of fakes and propaganda is based on Kiev. If they captured Kiev and force it to Surrender there would be no doubt of Russian military operations going exactly what they are expected.
I think they should immediately go after Kiev right after eliminating Donbas cauldrons. South in Odessa oblast Ukrainian is on shaky footings, they should fall right after if they captured Kiev.

Posted by: Lucci | May 20 2022 2:00 utc | 169

bobzibub @ 169
Norway is a founding member of NATO…

Posted by: Joe6pack | May 20 2022 2:28 utc | 171

bobzibub | May 20 2022 2:19 utc | 169 “I’m afraid we’re missing something.”
Yep. Putin modus operandi.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 20 2022 2:58 utc | 173

Blues @171
My math says around $130 per American.
Still, a colossal expense.
(I’m just trying to redeem myself.)

Posted by: bobzibub | May 20 2022 3:06 utc | 175

bobzibub | May 20 2022 2:19 utc | 169
“I find the “well, they’re stupid” used in almost every case is not convincing.
I’m afraid we’re missing something.
(Or I’m the one that is stupid. Also ought to have used “irrational”)”
They are often stupid at the tactical level, while the basic premises of the economic civilization – infinite growth on a finite planet, based upon infinite energy deriving from finite sources – also are fundamentally stupid.
In between, though, the strategies and goals of the elites are usually more irrational than stupid, most of all the irrational imperative to hold onto as much of their deteriorating power as possible for as long as possible, while continuing to enrich themselves for as long as they can prop up their power.
Often the strategy and goals are even “rational” from this irrational point of view.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | May 20 2022 3:10 utc | 177

cdvision@162 – I must be missing your point here, cdvision.
“Despite massive funding, training, equipping, even direct boots on the ground the Afghan regime lasted only hours once the US ran for the hills.”
Despite massive funding, training, equipping, even direct boots on the ground, the corrupt South Vietnam welfare regime folded like a cheap suit once the US ran for the hills.
Despite massive funding, training, equipping, even direct boots on the ground, I would expect the corrupt Ukraine welfare regime to fold like a cheap suit if the US/ZATO ever runs for the hills.
Yemen is another case in point: despite massive supply to the Saudis, by the US and others, and no doubt direct support on the ground, the Houthi handed them their ass.
And I would expect the corrupt Hadi loyalist welfare regime (and their US/Saidi-financed AQAP pals) to fold like a cheap suit if/when the US/Saudis ever decide to run for the hills from Yemen. Houthis and Ansar Allah won’t be defeated any time soon, but they’re still bleeding and dying and their impoverished families are still starving to death or dying of dysentery every day thanks to US/Saudi evil. Occasionally handing incompetent Saudis or thier Hadi loyalist minions their asses is meaningless if the US/Saudis have no plans to abandon the Hadi regime.
“Two factors are common in all these proxy wars: first, America loses; second: an unjust cause loses.”
Well, we agree on that, then. Ukraine and Yemen are still our evil works in progress, but I have little reason to think they will end any differently. Nonetheless, I’m still responsible for every last Yemeni, Ukrainian and Russian death while these futile, sadistic US efforts play out.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 20 2022 3:24 utc | 179

Posted by: Chevrus | May 19 2022 16:01 utc | 45
A very nice example of the “backfire effect ” from a brainwashed person. Who’s head has been filled with “poopaganda”. From the nightly news.
“Debunking myths is problematic. Unless great care is taken, any effort to debunk
misinformation can inadvertently reinforce the very myths one seeks to correct. To
avoid these “backfire effects”, an effective debunking requires three major elements.
First, the refutation must focus on core facts rather than the myth to avoid the
misinformation becoming more familiar. Second, any mention of a myth should be
preceded by explicit warnings to notify the reader that the upcoming information is
false. Finally, the refutation should include an alternative explanation that accounts
for important qualities in the original misinformation.”
The pdf of the “Debunking Handbook” is found here : https://skepticalscience.com/docs/Debunking_Handbook_2011.pdf

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 20 2022 3:29 utc | 181

Peter AU1 @ 172
Peter, the Ruskies are top notch strategists and diplomats. Not just Putin. That is a given.
But the West’s collective serial string of failures due to incompetence alone is not credible. Take the head of NATO Stoltenberg. Even if he’s dull as reported to be, like Putin he’d have capable staff around him able to explain options in simple terms. And that ought to have saved him from making his laughable claims.
Woke Trudeau siding with the torturers who send cluster munitions into civilian areas?
Occam’s Razor aside, it all just seems too incredible, that they *all* are buffoons.
I fear that the Americans are going to escalate with such ferocity that being neutral will not be physically possible. The oil and gas will be cut off whether the EU wants it or not. The Germans are buying F35s with their nonexistent budget. The “killing of Russians” (not the traditional term: making them “pay a price”). These discrepancies can also be explained by a planned wider European war.
You can add “paranoia” to my list. : /

Posted by: bobzibub | May 20 2022 3:36 utc | 183

from the web:
George W. Bush denounces “the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq — I mean, Ukraine”

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 20 2022 3:43 utc | 185

My problem with Scott Ritter, and I hope he’s reading this, is that he’s analyzing the trees and not the forest. What model cannon is being given to Ukraine may be significant in a battle but insignificant in the war. The “war” is a world-wide effort by the US to take over the world. I read that only recently the UK finally paid off its WWII debt, after some 80 years. By encouraging nations around the world to fight among themselves and against the US’s competitors, while keeping their (the US’s mainland) own territory safe from the ravages of the war, the US expects to Rule Americana over the world. Practically every nation will owe the US in perpetuity.
Scott, on the other hand, seems oblivious to the big picture and therefore worth little more than an announcer at a football game. I know he could do better if he just opens his eyes.

Posted by: ACPAL | May 20 2022 3:57 utc | 187

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 20 2022 3:36 utc | 182
The deprivation of killing children as they exit the birth canal is the same deprivation that has led to the American Empires ending.

Posted by: Undercutter | May 20 2022 4:07 utc | 189

K@167 –
“This is exactly my point, the US did not do “limited ” warfare they napalmed, agent oranged and land mined most of the country and bombed North Vietnam to the stone age BUT they still couldn’t win the war.”
You’re conflating my observations of employed military strategy and political will with immorality of purpose and sadistic execution. I was pretty young, but I remember the evolution of our war in Vietnam quite differently.
As horrible as the war was, I can assure you that – at the time – the U.S. military was never ordered to win the war by whatever means necessary or as soon as possible. Their orders were to enable (train, equip, bribe, whatever…) the South Vietnamese military to take over their own defense and win their own damn war against the North. In hindsight, an utter exercise in futility and horrible mistake. It eventually morphed into ‘our’ war, which the U.S. had no desire to continue. For their part, the South Vietnamese never had any desire to die for any version of their corrupt-assed inept government(s). I don’t blame them. At best, they fought out of (mostly U.S. propaganda) imaginary fear of NV/communist rule.
If the U.S. politicians had any real desire to ‘win’ in Vietnam and ordered the military to engage in ‘unlimited warfare’, we could have decapitated the entire North Vietnamese civilian and military leadership in weeks by leveling Hanoi with B-52s in 1965 without setting a single boot in South Vietnam. Less U.S. blood, but same immoral purpose and sadistic execution.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 20 2022 4:10 utc | 191

Oh well. Only five days to go. For the Polish Army “Grand Army Invasion” to retake Lvov and western Ukraine……………..

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 20 2022 4:16 utc | 193

Peter AU1@164 – We’ll have to disagree on this point, then. The US will fight the Russians to the last Ukrainian, but has no intention of letting it get that far. The US won’t just ‘run out of Ukrainians’ and let the war end. We will try to insert as many additional non-Ukrainians as necessary by whatever means possible to prolong the war and ‘bleed Russia white’. We’re not trying to win anything – we’re trying to kill Russians for as long as possible. Because… [insert random US psychopathic logic here].

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 20 2022 4:24 utc | 195

PavewayIV @ 178
If the point has not been made, the corruption between Afghanistan and Vietnam were similar in that in both countries over half the army was just on the books where the generals collected the paychecks and the bodies did not show up for work. In addition, we trained and armed many of the Taliban militants who did show up and in large quantities as well and then bailed when they took what they needed. In Vietnam the North did not have any trouble placing people into the South’s military structure as well.
As the end neared in Vietnam some of the generals in the South were cutting deals with the North to save their asses. In the Ukraine the money is just starting to roll in. The USA will be funding their military and government operations for as long as it takes. I imagine we will be replacing the lost tax revenue so they can fund social services like pensions.
We will fund it as long as a sliver of the Ukraine is left with a few bodies to fight. A percentage of the payola will flow back to the US political class to keep the money flowing in a big circle.
This is their dream come true. We got war, the political class and their allies will make money hand over fist and they got their chance to weaken Russia.
We are far from exhaustion and capitulation even if the Ukrainian army folds East of the Dnieper river. This will continue because the political class in the West wants it to continue and they have fallow ground to plow money into the Ukraine. Only the Ukrainian military can end it at this point by lining up their politicians against a wall and starting over with Russia at their side.
We will see those yankee dollar work their magic for a while longer. Maybe a long while longer.

Posted by: circumspect | May 20 2022 4:31 utc | 197

@ Stonebird | May 19 2022 20:34 utc | 113
again, i am in agreement with you… thanks for saying all that! lets see how it plays out…no one can know for sure, but it is reassuring to see another poster with a similar outlook to mine…
@ William Gruff | May 19 2022 21:50 utc | 131
very good! especially the analogy with jimmy dore, lol.. thanks for all that..
@ paveway…
it’s nice to see you posting more often again here! thanks for your posts… i happen to share the perspective of @ peter au, and cdivision more then your position here… i hope you are wrong here, lol – but i still appreciate your valuable insights! thanks for your posts!

Posted by: james | May 20 2022 4:41 utc | 199