Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
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May 15, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-66
Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict … The open thread for other issues is here.
Comments
The snapshots which clearly show what was a clear nazi salute which the Azov Battallion thanked immediately… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 17:15 utc | 101 Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 16:50 utc | 93 Posted by: pretzelattack | May 15 2022 17:17 utc | 102 @nook – Finland is buying F35 which is a nuclear missile or bomb carrier. Nato is training non-nuclear countries to launch nuclear attacks on Russia using F35 and US nuclear weapons. All past nato European trainings had this and Russia complained many times. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 17:20 utc | 103 hard to keep up! Posted by: james | May 15 2022 17:24 utc | 104 As you probably know, Latvian government has kept bulldozing the wreaths placed by the Russian population under the Liberation Monument to the liberators of Europe since past Victory Day. They even have voted at their parliament, without consultations with the citizenry, to demolish the memorial… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 17:29 utc | 105 Col. Richard Black — U.S. Leading World to Nuclear War Posted by: james | May 15 2022 17:30 utc | 106 Ukraine is a Western Victory! Russia is finished! Posted by: Sushi | May 15 2022 17:33 utc | 107 @Peter AU1 #61 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 17:35 utc | 108 rk, Just to inform you about the general feel. Case closed, culprits found. All other stories are Posted by: DutchZ | May 15 2022 17:36 utc | 109 Posted by: newcomer | May 15 2022 16:20 utc | 78 Posted by: eyeswideshut | May 15 2022 17:36 utc | 110 @DutchZ | May 15 2022 17:36 utc | 109 Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 17:40 utc | 111 Sweden has officially decided to apply for NATO membership, the country’s ruling Social-Democratic Party stated on Sunday. Posted by: sln2002 | May 15 2022 17:52 utc | 112 @ robin | May 15 2022 17:55 utc | 113 Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 17:56 utc | 114 Sweden and Finland in NATO is part propaganda (see, Russia’s strategic error led to NATO expansion) and part anti-Russian hysteria (you have to do something to protect yourself from the marauding, asiatic psychopath in the kremlin). Posted by: Lex | May 15 2022 17:58 utc | 115 Posted by: robin | May 15 2022 8:01 utc | 297 Posted by: Sushi | May 15 2022 17:58 utc | 116 Not sure if others have the same problem but MoA appears to be slightly wonky this afternoon. Slow site response and dropping the css file. Posted by: Sushi | May 15 2022 18:00 utc | 117 Sushi, I thought you were just pulling my leg there. Turns out we’re simply stuck in a time loop. Posted by: robin | May 15 2022 18:07 utc | 118 @rk #70 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 18:13 utc | 119 @Sushi : US defense spending budget means a lot of people steal a lot of money and nothing else. $800bn is not visible in technology compared to 60bn of Russia or 70bn of India. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 18:15 utc | 120 Posted by: Sushi | May 15 2022 17:58 utc | 116 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 18:19 utc | 121 @Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 17:15 utc | 101 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 18:21 utc | 122 Not sure when it happened here, but this stuff about “concern trolling” has gone beyond the reality of the situation. I’ve certainly seen some concern trolls at MoA over the years, but when all someone does is question the prevailing narrative here of imminent Russian victory (whether that means in a month or two years) and says something that might accidentally be in-line with some NATO person or newspaper, that isn’t concern trolling. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 18:23 utc | 123 @NJH | May 15 2022 16:39 utc | 89 Posted by: Objective Observer | May 15 2022 18:28 utc | 124 Does anyone have any thoughts on the actual content of this post at Yasha Levine’s Substack? Not interested in name calling or the like; I’m genuinely curious about his points, assuming he’s actually making any besides PUTIN=BAD!!! PUTIN IS LOSING!!! PUTIN IS A TYRANICAL DICTATOR!!! Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 18:28 utc | 125 @c1ue : I don’t know why some people talk about such high numbers, close to 300k Allied forces like you say. That is not possible. These numbers must come from nato propaganda, like those pushed by Ukraine that Russia is losing thousands per day. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 18:30 utc | 126 Scott Ritter also claimed Gonzalo was dead. No critisicm of Scott, he works with the info he gets. His change of opinion comes from a model projecting the 40 billion going to the Ukrainian military. It will not. The 40 billion will change nothing on the battle field because Ukraine will see none of it. Russian knows its enemies very very well. Posted by: Goran | May 15 2022 18:32 utc | 127 I only started watching Nazivision ( which I left watching years ago as it became a gay bacanalia of the worst taste…) when the score was taking place, after seeing Semion Senderov commenting in Telegram, but somehow arrived late and lost the representative of Poland voting her 12 points to Ukraine, it seems she also made the nazi salute after that and sang the usual nazi shout…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 18:32 utc | 128 From WAPO, the PR division of the 3 letter agency, allows a policy change: OP-ED Paywall. Someone has deep concerns and have been drinking contaminated water –
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/05/11/ukraine-war-expansion-risks-nuclear/ Posted by: Likklemore | May 15 2022 18:33 utc | 129 As if it were not enough with all the nazi regalia seen and displayed yesterday night, it seems that second and third posts were given to people wearing tatoos and making strange signs which have not passed unadverted for some related to their masters… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 18:41 utc | 130 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 18:23 utc | 123 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 18:47 utc | 131 When Finland sends the application to join Nato, easiest way to block it’s realisation would be russian response by international law while Finland breaks the terms of Paris peace treaty and announce a state of war but not commit aggression militarily, only by cutting exports to Finland. Nato cannot accept new members in a state of war. Posted by: finno | May 15 2022 18:52 utc | 132 At least this young lady is telling it like is on the floor of the Bundestag: Posted by: donten | May 15 2022 18:52 utc | 133 Posted by: Likklemore | May 15 2022 18:33 utc | 129 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 18:56 utc | 134 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 18:47 utc | 131 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 19:04 utc | 135 French journalist says they have proof US boots are on the ground in Ukraine. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 15 2022 19:14 utc | 136 “… but he’s also very pissed about the military actions because he has friends and family in Russia and Ukraine.” Posted by: bevin | May 15 2022 19:16 utc | 137 Posted by: NJH | May 15 2022 16:39 utc | 89
I doubt it’s true. Guy is seventy years old and has retired in 2011. Posted by: Vayezatha | May 15 2022 19:19 utc | 138 Aleph_Null | May 15 2022 15:44 utc | 65 Posted by: Doug Hillman | May 15 2022 19:22 utc | 139 Ugh. Had mistakenly posted the following to the previous thread (apologies if you’re reading this in two different places). Posted by: Seer | May 15 2022 19:22 utc | 140 In what should be a surprise to nobody, CBS’s premier news program helps Lockheed Martin’s CEO make his pitch. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 19:28 utc | 141 Well, in case some purist comes to state that those of the Ukro Kalmush Orchestra at #Nazivision2022 were really not nazi salutes, here the aftermath fest by the Ukrainian delegation…Do not tell me now they are just calling for a taxi with those so rigidly extended arms…what about the figure made with the glasses? A concidence too? Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 19:31 utc | 142 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 19:04 utc | 135 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 19:32 utc | 143 What Levine is doing really is ‘concern trolling.” Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 19:32 utc | 144 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 18:56 utc | 134 Posted by: sln2002 | May 15 2022 19:32 utc | 145 Although it is interesting how many troops or vehicles each side has in Ukraine, it is clear that Russia has been keeping much of it’s real/modern force in the background. Posted by: Stonebird | May 15 2022 19:35 utc | 146 Moving on from Scott Ritter and concerned individuals… Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 19:38 utc | 147 Posted by: sln2002 | May 15 2022 19:32 utc | 145 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 19:41 utc | 148 As far back as the 1960s, Chomsky never said anything against the Warren Commission’s fiction about the JFK assassination. He’s always been controlled opposition. Posted by: Lysias | May 15 2022 19:43 utc | 149 @rk #126 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 19:43 utc | 150 Re identifying “concern trolls. It would be more productive, make more interesting debate if commenters would identify the “concern troll’s” logical fallacy rather than proving you identified a “concern troll.” Posted by: willow | May 15 2022 19:47 utc | 151 Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 15 2022 19:14 utc | 136 Posted by: Paco | May 15 2022 19:47 utc | 152 Posted by: willow | May 15 2022 19:47 utc | 151 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 19:53 utc | 153 You be the judge: Posted by: K | May 15 2022 19:55 utc | 154 @ Lysias Posted by: Don Bacon | May 15 2022 19:55 utc | 155 >> At $22.9 trillion, the U.S. GDP $22.9 trillion (2020 IMF figures) roughly 25% of the world economy, Posted by: doubting tomas | May 15 2022 19:56 utc | 156 @Paco | May 15 2022 19:47 utc | 152 Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 19:57 utc | 157 @Peterau Posted by: K | May 15 2022 20:02 utc | 158 Defense spending? Russia does not spend a single dollar on it’s military. They spend Rubles. The defense budget is denoted in Rubles. When that sum is converted into dollars you get a meaninglessly tiny number because the Ruble doesn’t trade anywhere near it’s purchasing power. It has been that way for years. Same issue with the Russian GDP. Converting all to dollars gives a massive distortion of the true size of Russia’s economy for the same reason. Realistically Russia spends an equivalent of about 200 billion on it’s military, mostly on upgrades and procurement while most of Americas money is wasted on global deployment. Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 20:06 utc | 159 Posted by: K | May 15 2022 19:55 utc | 154 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 20:07 utc | 160 Putin already said what he is going to do. Posted by: b4real | May 15 2022 20:08 utc | 161 The Politico article b linked to, “The Covert Operation to Back Ukrainian Independence that Haunts the CIA: After WWII, officials in Washington sent scores of agents to their deaths in a misguided effort to create an uprising against Moscow,” while being a revelation for many remains an obfuscation of the Truth for it begins its narrative in 1949, four years after the initial reinsertions of Nazis and OSS/CIA aid to OUN. Oddly, even though the Truth is publicly available, the attempts to staunch it continues. There’s also lots of propaganda within that article such as the reason given for the operation: “to beat back Soviet expansionism,” which at the time was non-existent. Sputnik – problems for Nazivision. National Jury of Romania said they didn’t vote the way it appeared on screen during the show. They voted for Moldova. They said the Nazivision organizers have changed votes to go to Ukraine Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 20:14 utc | 163 Republicofscotland @136– Alex at The Duran has reproduced a couple paragraphs directly in a video which he finds particularly interesting: Posted by: blues | May 15 2022 20:18 utc | 166 @ Posted by: K | May 15 2022 19:55 utc | 154 Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 20:19 utc | 167 Sweden and Finland are giving up their neutrality, and that works both ways, putting them in danger. Putin might have mentioned that to Finland. Posted by: Don Bacon | May 15 2022 20:21 utc | 168 Alex at The Duran has reproduced a couple paragraphs directly in a video which he finds particularly interesting (at 17 min.): Posted by: blues | May 15 2022 20:25 utc | 170 It appears i overestimated your ability to formulate your own opinion of a video, regardless of where it is posted. Posted by: K | May 15 2022 20:31 utc | 171 Alex at The Duran has reproduced a couple paragraphs directly in a video which he finds particularly interesting (at 17 min.): Posted by: blues | May 15 2022 20:33 utc | 172 Karlof1 (164). Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 15 2022 20:38 utc | 173 Master concern troll: circe Posted by: William Gruff | May 15 2022 20:39 utc | 174 Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 11:55 utc | 1 Posted by: darren price | May 15 2022 20:39 utc | 175 @darren price – heavy losses? Struggle? Man… Weed is bad! Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 20:44 utc | 177 This is no mere rumor. Look for images of Payton Gendron, the 18-year old racist who live-streamed his massacre in a black Buffalo neighborhood. The punk covers himself in Azov regalia. Here in USA, where the segregation is so intense a 90% black neighborhood is within driving distance of 99% of them, we now have domestic terrorists sporting Azov regalia. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 15 2022 20:45 utc | 178 It seems to have been a quiet day at the old steel plant, for at least 3 minutes if this video was unedited. Not a single war noise. A joy to watch this very nimble young lady instead of any Avoz brutes, unless, of course, they were dead and nicely laid out in rows… Posted by: DakotaRog | May 15 2022 20:47 utc | 179 @ Posted by: K | May 15 2022 20:31 utc | 171 Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 20:52 utc | 180 @Posted by: DakotaRog | May 15 2022 20:47 utc | 179 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 20:55 utc | 181 “Even Blinken is talking now about the possibility of sanctions being eventually lifted. They see Russia is in trouble and are offering a “way out”, with conditions obviously. It’s a standard tactic. I could be wrong of course but if they think Russia is struggling hard such an “offer” makes sense. ” Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 20:55 utc | 182 b4real @161–
There is nothing accidental about today’s situation: “The Americans began to prepare for the current crisis a long time ago – immediately after the end of the Cold War, deciding that the way to achieve global hegemony was now open.” [My Emphasis]
The translated transcript can be read here. The Lukyanov article Lavrov cited can be read here. Yesterday’s Medvedev Telegram posting can be read here. Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 20:55 utc | 182 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 20:59 utc | 184 @DakotaRog | May 15 2022 20:47 utc | 179 Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 21:00 utc | 185 Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 11:55 utc | 1 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:05 utc | 186 Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 18:15 utc | 120 Posted by: Sushi | May 15 2022 21:06 utc | 187 “Speaking of absurdities, listen to what the NATO genius says: Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 21:07 utc | 188 Hidari @38: “Adorno was right.” [re: effectiveness of brainwashing by capitalist pop culture] Posted by: William Gruff | May 15 2022 21:11 utc | 189 Ritter has never impressed me as a competent thinker. Sorry. Some people make the mistake that if someone says something sensible once, they must always be right. But a broken clock is right twice a day. Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 21:11 utc | 190 “”Finland is not deterred to join Nato, that must be viewed as a massive strategic failure. Perhaps it is all part of a bigger trap…” Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 21:19 utc | 191 A lot of people getting confused here about the Russian way of war vs the American/’Western’ way of war. Posted by: Hidari | May 15 2022 21:25 utc | 192 Posted by: Simplicius | May 15 2022 15:27 utc | 57 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:26 utc | 193 A point about the “Ukrainian army in the ‘cauldron’ of the Donbass”. I get the impression from some people that they think this is a fresh, un-fought force just waiting to join in and route the Russian army. Of course that is more absurdity. They have been devastated, first from the air and then by endless shelling from artillery. They are shell shocked light forces holed up in concrete and steel bunkers under piles of earth. Their military value is negligible, but they would be a danger to the rear and the whole area is a trap full of mines. Taking time to reduce than saves lives on both sides. Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 21:33 utc | 194 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 18:23 utc | 123 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:36 utc | 195 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 18:13 utc | 119 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:36 utc | 196 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 15 2022 18:28 utc | 125
Meanwhile, he offers zero evidence that Russia is having any problems at all in this war. He does not mention anything except the issue of Finland and Sweden as some sort of “disaster” for Russia – which is risible. And most of the post is him traveling around some place. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:44 utc | 197 Posted by: Seer | May 15 2022 19:22 utc | 140 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:50 utc | 198 For some days I have been thinking about Duda’s speech of May 3 Posted by: FZappa | May 15 2022 21:55 utc | 199 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 19:43 utc | 150 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 15 2022 21:58 utc | 200 |
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