Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
The open thread for other issues is here.
|
|
|
|
Back to Main
|
||
|
May 15, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-66
Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict … The open thread for other issues is here.
Comments
I recently posted a couple of articles on apparent Russian losses on Snake Island and that now famed river crossing in Donbass, both of which subsequently turned out to be either inconclusive or inaccurate. My bad. Still costly for Russia, but overall more likely indicative of Ukrainian defeats. My point was, this is costing Russia too and how long can this go on for? I find the whole one sided Russian cheer squad reporting just as idiotic as the whole Slava Ukraina hysteria. Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 11:55 utc | 1 Here’s how an uneducated puppet looks like: Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 11:59 utc | 2 So Scott Ritter, who I have a lot of respect for and therefore concern over this, has overnight changed his view on the Ukraine war to unwinable as the West will “bleed it dry” with endless weapons flow. Any riposte? If Russia is stalemated maybe it will look back and find its big error was that it is in an existential war but did not treat it as such from the outset failing to take the gloves off early enough or heavily enough. Also underestimating the fact the US and collective West also viewed this as an existential battle to retain global hegemony and DID take the gloves off before Russia could secure victory and dictate terms. I hope he’s wrong because if theUS/NATO succeeds in its aims this will set back world peace and establishing equity in the sharing of resources for a generation. Posted by: daisuke | May 15 2022 12:06 utc | 3 Ukraine won the Eurovision Contest with anywhere to catch from song of an impossible fusion of Ukrainian folk and US popular music and dance, horrible performance poorly rehearsed plus poorly elaborated horrible costumes, but, then yes, they made the nazi salute in front of the whole submitted Europe and called for the liberation of Azovstal, and the “televote” ( which we are to believe is not hackeable by the Atlantic Council…) gave them the “victory”… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 12:09 utc | 4 The concern trolls are starting early today. Russia maintains escalation dominance in Ukraine. There is telegram channel videos of the “O” group moving in Ukraine. They are the heavy assault BTGs. They were not used before and are being brought in now. The quotes Ritter also has discussed the attrition rate being around 15-1. This doesn’t mean the Russians and LDNR forces are not taking losses. It does mean the VSU is losing at an incredible and unsustainable rate. Who’s is being bled dry here? The VSU is over. As far as western weapons, I’ve seen pictures of 1 triple 7 in the Donbas and even it was supposedly captured. Posted by: MikeH | May 15 2022 12:18 utc | 5 Well, who is not to say that Lloyd Austin called Shoigu to make even more threats and explain where those 40 billion will be going to exactly, instead of assuming the US just wants a ceasefire because it expects to continue losing? I was wrong twice, happy to be wrong again.. Posted by: Bemildred | May 15 2022 12:21 utc | 6 I don’t follow everything Ritter has to say but if he said so he probably needs to take a nap. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 12:21 utc | 7 From my point of view seems to me, that US getting shocked looking on the map UA. If UA going to loose access to sea ,what use is for US to be sponsor of UA ? None! No access, no chance to robbing UA natural sources, food etc.etc etc.etc. And still amounting sums of money they never, ever go to get backs.Worst deal done from 2014.(8 years) Posted by: BB Rad | May 15 2022 12:23 utc | 8 I watched the Ritter interview. Posted by: GEORGE M CHAMBERLAIN | May 15 2022 12:28 utc | 9 I believe Ritter is impressed by large sums of money. His strength is military not economic thinking. Ukraine is lacking trained people and a high level general staff. I doubt you can buy either with money. Maybe some mercenaries, but they won’t be trained for the combined arms warfare, that is needed in this war and I think more and more mercenaries understand, that they would be in to die. Ukraine can’t conscript endlessly people. In 2021 about 140,000 boys were born in Ukraine. This doesn’t include Krim, but does include Donetsk und Luhansk. Up to a week ago or so, there were realistic estimates of > 50,000 losses (killed, severly injured, surrendered) on the Ukrainian side. How long can this go on? The losses are higher than the birth rate and much higher than the birth rate in the areas controlled by Ukraine. Posted by: Martin | May 15 2022 12:31 utc | 10 I watched the video as well and Scott Ritter is alarmed, by recent developments, and has done an about-face in his assessment of the war. He notes that howitzers are getting through, Russia either unable or unwilling to stop their transit, that they are having their effect; albeit on the periphery, Russia is suffering significant losses and that “demilitarization” is not in fact taking place. He fears that Ukraine still has significant forces, what with weaponry getting through, to change the calculus of the war, in much the way Russia did, vs Germany, in WWII. His panic is palpable. Striking, given his ongoing stark dismissal of Ukraine’s prospects. Posted by: Dale | May 15 2022 12:32 utc | 11 In the beginning of the SMO it was said that Ukraine had 2500-3000 tanks. Now Russia says they have destroyed more than 3000 tanks and other armored combat vehicles. Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 12:42 utc | 12 Scott Ritter may or may not be worth listening to. Certainly Russian forced do not hinge on his take. But his comments are not being taken out of context. He is in a panic. His earlier bravado is shattered. Posted by: Dale | May 15 2022 12:43 utc | 13 It’s “tanks + armored vehicles”, nothing wrong. Poland alone sent 230 tanks two weeks ago. Other countries have sent many armored vehicles. Too much free time at home? Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 12:48 utc | 14 Read again: Armored COMBAT vehicles. Russia also says they have destroyed about 3000 other armored vehicles. Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 12:58 utc | 15 rk 7 Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 15 2022 13:08 utc | 16 @ Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 12:42 utc | 12 Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 13:12 utc | 17 @Et Tu | May 15 2022 11:55 utc | 1
I have felt uneasy about Scott Ritters approach for some time, he seems very US biased to me. The fact that he in his own word has made a ‘radical shift’ of his assessment in this situation where the main discussion is about when the inevitable Ukrainian collapse is going to happen makes me wonder. I have not heard any actual military arguments of note that would justify a ‘radical shift’. Until I hear such arguments I am going to put less weight on Ritter’s assessment. Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 13:12 utc | 18 Posted by: Dale | May 15 2022 12:43 utc | 13 Posted by: Bloke from block 8 | May 15 2022 13:14 utc | 19 Posted by: BB Rad | May 15 2022 12:23 utc | 8 Posted by: Martina | May 15 2022 13:17 utc | 20 Re Scott Ritter’s recent re-assessment of the smo. If Putin really believes it’s existential, and if Ritter is correct then at some point Russia will be obliged to substantially raise the anti to demonstrate it is not bluffing. Posted by: Krypton | May 15 2022 13:19 utc | 21 On Ritter saying that Russia isn’t preventing weapons coming from the west. I thought NATO and its Ukrainian HiWis had spent 8 years building a fortified line to draw Russia into the Donbass to face destruction – but since Russia came from the rear and let DPR face the LOC – the HiWis had abandoned fortified positions to retreat into populated areas and use civilians as cover. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 15 2022 13:28 utc | 23 To date, what has been correctly forecast about Russia’s moves by various non propaganda analysts? Russia would not invade Ukraine. When it did all maps showed Russia making a large pincer move from south and north enclosing the entire Donbass front in a giant cauldron. Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 15 2022 13:31 utc | 24 Like the US and the UK the EU is pledging huge amounts of taxpayers cash for Ukraine, wit many people now struggling to pay bills and heat their homes the USA’s war on Russia will see Europeans and poorer American’s suffer for years to come. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 15 2022 13:41 utc | 25 @#9 Posted by: Musburger | May 15 2022 13:42 utc | 26 b | May 15 2022 13:24 utc | 22 Posted by: S.O. | May 15 2022 13:44 utc | 27 Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 13:12 utc | 17 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 13:45 utc | 28 @Paul Greenwood | May 15 2022 13:28 utc | 23
Russia steps up attacks on Ukraine’s rail network
Google Map: Pidyomnyy Mist bridge Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 13:48 utc | 29 https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2022/05/06/some-ukraine-russia-backstory/#comment-156771 Posted by: hunterson7 | May 15 2022 13:51 utc | 30 You can think MoD is lying but they’re not. Those are armored combat vehicles in total, not tanks alone. Only Ghost of Kiev destroyed hundreds of airplanes at first, later they settled to a count of 40 or something like that. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 13:51 utc | 31 Reply to Bloke … Posted by: Dale | May 15 2022 13:55 utc | 32 “Concern trolling” is an accusation of insincere sympathy with someone else’s problems, usually with the opposite intent. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 15 2022 13:59 utc | 33 I had Fox News on while eating a light breakfast and one of the “stories” they mentioned was quoting someone in the UK MoD that the Russians had “lost 1/3rd” of their forces in Ukraine. If Russian casualties are such a big part of the propaganda battle space, how come the Ukies haven’t plastered western media with the dead? I’ve seen lots of knocked out and destroyed Russian made armor but very few dead Russian soldiers. And “1/3rd” of what; the forces used so far in Ukraine, 1/3 of the active Russian military forces, 1/3rd of everything the Russians can levy over time such as with the reserves?? No context at all. But, I guess most of the American sheeple will buy such shit. What a joke… Posted by: DakotaRog | May 15 2022 14:03 utc | 34 It shouldn’t be forgotten that Scott Ritter wildly underestimated how long this operation would take (he thought Ukraine would be conquered by 200,000 Russian troops in….two weeks) and his predictions about what happens in the future should be taken with an extremely large amount of salt. Posted by: Hidari | May 15 2022 14:07 utc | 35 In the discussion about manpower and material losses of both warring paties it is inevitable Posted by: DutchZ | May 15 2022 14:09 utc | 36 Et Tu | May 15 2022 11:55 utc | 1 Posted by: Otter | May 15 2022 14:10 utc | 37 Another thing is that: Adorno was right. He was just decades ahead of the game. Adorno saw that in an advanced capitalist society, so-called ‘popular’ culture functions as an escape valve to ‘let off’ what might be revolutionary energies, and also facilitates corporate and pro-Western propaganda. Posted by: Hidari | May 15 2022 14:13 utc | 38 “Concern trolling” accusations are the ad hominem trolling of those who do not like to hear that which they do not want to hear. Posted by: Et Tu | May 15 2022 14:16 utc | 39 DutchZ | May 15 2022 14:09 utc | 36 “Seen different percentages of 10% to 20% in different blogs.” Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 15 2022 14:18 utc | 40 Any video I’ve seen of those 8 year heavily fortified lines shows quickly dug shallow and small dirt trenches with a few log and earth huts. Have read repeatedly of the millions of tons of concrete poured and have seen zero of that. Only useful fortification that seems to exist is being embedded in towns full of civilians. Russia remains reluctant to bomb civilian areas. It is hard to see that as a bad thing. Posted by: Oldhippie | May 15 2022 14:19 utc | 41 @Republicofscotland | May 15 2022 13:41 utc | 25 Posted by: Iain | May 15 2022 14:21 utc | 42 @Hidari | May 15 2022 14:07 utc | 35
A “US-controlled Ukraine” is not acceptable, i.e. the current regime. One way or another it must go. The Russians have stated that Ukraine (i.e. “Rump Ukraine”) must be neutral, no NATO, no EU, no Nazis, demilitarized. Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 14:24 utc | 43 Some education: concern troll
Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 14:31 utc | 44 @DutchZ Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 14:38 utc | 45 ‘The Russians have stated that Ukraine (i.e. “Rump Ukraine”) must be neutral, no NATO, no EU, no Nazis, demilitarized.’ Posted by: Hidari | May 15 2022 14:41 utc | 46 @Et Tu #1 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 14:43 utc | 47 c1ue | May 15 2022 14:43 utc | 47 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 15 2022 14:51 utc | 48 @ c1ue | May 15 2022 14:43 utc | 47
This is a very good point, and could be true given what we know about the propaganda efforts. We need much more hard facts before we “start worrying”. Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 14:53 utc | 49 Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 14:31 utc | 44 Posted by: Herr Ringbone | May 15 2022 14:57 utc | 50 @Peter AU1 #48 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 14:58 utc | 51 Peter AU1 Posted by: oldhippie | May 15 2022 15:00 utc | 52 A tweet from a Ukraine-supporting account: Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 15:01 utc | 53 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 15 2022 13:28 utc | 23 Posted by: Greg Galloway | May 15 2022 15:09 utc | 54 The Subtleties of Anti-Russia Leftist Rhetoric
http://edwardcurtin.com/the-subtleties-of-anti-russia-leftist-rhetoric/ Posted by: Browser | May 15 2022 15:09 utc | 55 “Russia’s reaction to Finland’s NATO membership turned out to be more restrained than expected,” Finnish President Sauli Niinistö Posted by: eyeswideshut | May 15 2022 15:17 utc | 56 As for “concern trolling” one needs to beware wedding themselves to one narrative, or another. I find Martynov and copy pasta RSH just a bit too optistic all too often. Truth is cold, fleeting and only occasionally glimpsed if at all, so beware micro analysis based on “number of airstrikes”, or “M777 is obsolete, fragile and missing key electronics” – as if manually punching in GPS coordinates provided by a NATO UAV in real time isn’t almost as good. Posted by: Simplicius | May 15 2022 15:27 utc | 57 @Greg Galloway #54 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 15:30 utc | 58 – NATO’s strategy to be adopted in June may include the mention of a direct threat allegedly coming from Russia’s activities”, Bloomberg Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 15:30 utc | 59 One pleasant observation; Our MSM here in the U$A, has curtailed it’s breathless hawking of the “Ukraine is winning” meme. What does that mean? Who knows? But, for me, its a relief from the constant drum beat of over the top propganda. Posted by: vetinLA | May 15 2022 15:32 utc | 60 oldhippie c1ue Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 15 2022 15:34 utc | 61 Peter AU1 & rk, thks both for yr comments. Both of you indicate the SMO manpower, although best estimates. Looks like pretty close according to yr sources. Acoording to: https://www.forces.net/news/russia-and-us-military-firepower-comparison Posted by: DutchZ | May 15 2022 15:34 utc | 62 At this point we are a long way from exhaustion in the leadership of the Ukraine. This could easily boil for 20 years unless the Ukraine leadership gives up. It appears that the Empire has created a situation where that will not happen anytime soon. Posted by: circumspect | May 15 2022 15:36 utc | 63 Posted by: vetinLA | May 15 2022 15:32 utc | 60 Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 15:39 utc | 64
— Edward Curtin, “The Subtleties of Anti-Russia Leftist Rhetoric” Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 15 2022 15:44 utc | 65
Turkey doesn’t seem too thrilled about the idea of a NATO Finland. Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | May 15 2022 15:46 utc | 66 https://justice4poland.com/2015/04/11/ukraina-to-nowa-chazaria-new-khazaria/ Posted by: FredF | May 15 2022 15:46 utc | 67 @circumspect | May 15 2022 15:36 utc | 63
What are you smoking? Ukraine is losing ~500 soldiers per day. A ridiculous calculation is 500*365=182500 per year or 3.6 million soldiers over 20 years. Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 15:48 utc | 68 Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 15 2022 15:44 utc | 65 Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | May 15 2022 15:49 utc | 69 They don’t have enough people to end this year, 20 years is impossible. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 15:56 utc | 70 @ The Subtleties of Anti-Russia Leftist Rhetoric Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 15 2022 15:59 utc | 71 Norwegian @ 68 Posted by: circumspect | May 15 2022 16:00 utc | 72 @rk | May 15 2022 15:56 utc | 70
Yes, it was sent to those who shot MH17 down, so the logic must be that it malfunctions and kills those who fire the shells? Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 16:01 utc | 73 Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | May 15 2022 15:46 utc | 66 Posted by: eyeswideshut | May 15 2022 16:05 utc | 74 @Norwegian probably :)))) Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 16:13 utc | 75 I remember this from 2014, the “Norwegian TV crew” was from TV2
Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 16:16 utc | 76 What the people is renaming now Nazivision 2022 had a lot of nazi salutes full on display…apart from your usual Heil Hitler!… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:19 utc | 77 look at this Posted by: newcomer | May 15 2022 16:20 utc | 78 Posted by: Herr Ringbone | May 15 2022 14:57 utc | 50 Posted by: Bloke from block 8 | May 15 2022 16:23 utc | 79 PeterAU1 @ 61 Posted by: oldhippie | May 15 2022 16:23 utc | 80 Laura Pausini changed her expression once known Ukraine had won…She could not avoid having a heart shock, as every kindhearted well meaning European…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:23 utc | 81 A meem that says it all about yesterday´s Nazivision 2022… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:24 utc | 82 From Sputnik: Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 16:25 utc | 83 There is a current contest in Twitter over what would be the right renaming of Atlantic Council managed Nazivision from now on… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:30 utc | 84 So this Eurovision thing is coming to Russia next year. Well, that’s a nice gesture. Posted by: Sarmat | May 15 2022 16:32 utc | 85 After the singer from Ukraine made a call to help the Nazi Azov battalion from the stage after finishing the performance, he left making a salute that in view of his support for Azov raises doubts that he was greeting the people of #Eurovision… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:33 utc | 86 After the singer from Ukraine made a call to help the Nazi Azov battalion from the stage after finishing the performance, he left making a salute that in view of his support for Azov raises doubts that he was greeting the people of #Eurovision Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:38 utc | 87 Posted by: c1ue | May 15 2022 15:30 utc | 58 Posted by: Sushi | May 15 2022 16:39 utc | 88 Has anyone else heard reports that u.s. admiral eric olson was just taken into custody in azovstal? Posted by: NJH | May 15 2022 16:39 utc | 89 rk & Norwegian, here in the Netherlands we have courtprocess going on for years now to condemn the Posted by: DutchZ | May 15 2022 16:42 utc | 90 From Simplicius 57 Posted by: Boomheist | May 15 2022 16:46 utc | 91 @NJH | May 15 2022 16:39 utc | 89 Posted by: Norwegian | May 15 2022 16:47 utc | 92 The reality on Finland and Sweden. Both countries are small and pose no military threat to Russia any more than the Baltic states that are already members. And Sweden has been a de facto member all along anyway. It is a shame that Finland will spoil it’s relationship with Russia that it has had since Soviet times but that is about all it will do. This is nothing but pr for Nato. They are consolation prizes for losing Ukiestan….and it is lost…they know it. You have to understand what a blow this is to the US Empire. Ukraine was like their Israel in eastern Europe…an unsinkable battleship promoting US hegemony and undermining Russian security forevermore. It’s military capability has been systematically dismantled and no handful of antique weapons funneled there will reverse the situation. The Western policy clowns are delusional. They thought sanctions would destroy the Russian economy and Putin would be overthrown. They really believed that idiocy! But that hasn’t happened, and there is no sign that it will. They thought if they could manufacture the illusion that the Kiev regime was holding it’s own, they could buy time for there hoped for regime change. Total fail. They shot their wad on Snake Island. Now they must find some way to present the optics they didnt lose. It is no accident that the defense secretary calls right after that debacle…right after Victory Day.Calling for a cease fire means it isnt going the way the West wants but I know other issues were discussed…like how the US can save face when Russia gets everything they want. Posted by: nook | May 15 2022 16:50 utc | 93 “Russia’s reaction to Finland’s NATO membership turned out to be more restrained than expected,” Finnish President Sauli Niinistö Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 15 2022 16:56 utc | 94 While some correspondents from well known mass media, like centenary Spanish La Vanguardia ( belonging to Counts of Godó and which had correspondent in the Nazi front during WWII, but curiously, and now understandably, not in the Soviet one…), try to whitewash Azov´s blatant nazism and state that Putin is exagerating the “initial” far-right stance of the group belonging to the Ucrainian National Guard, even decribing Ukraine right now as a much more democratic country than Russia… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 16:59 utc | 95 Regime change could well be in the air.
I note with interest, I have as yet been able to locate a facsimile of this letter in public domain. Also, congradulations to all who ever were offended by “politicization” of The Union and the inevitable conclusion to the story. ha. ha. of The Single Market: from Articles of Confederation to “United States of Europe” in under 100 years. Posted by: sln2002 | May 15 2022 17:01 utc | 97 Daisuke @3 Posted by: wagelaborer | May 15 2022 17:04 utc | 98 @DutchZ – except it was the Ukrainians under US or UK supervision who shot it down. The Buk or whatever the name was had a number inscribed on it and it was photographed close to Poland border in Feb this year when they were moving weapons, preparing for Russia. The photo circulated a lot on telegram at that time. Posted by: rk | May 15 2022 17:06 utc | 99 About the Azov battalion cheered yesterday at #Eurovision: they are Nazis and know no mercy. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 15 2022 17:08 utc | 100 |
||