(The post for today didn't work out. I had to trash it. You will have to talk to each other instead.)
Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
The open thread for other stuff is here.
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May 10, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-63
(The post for today didn't work out. I had to trash it. You will have to talk to each other instead.) Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict … The open thread for other stuff is here.
Comments
@ 148 Posted by: K | May 11 2022 3:02 utc | 201 @ K & dh – I didn’t know that either! Say it in broken English. ; ) Posted by: lex talionis | May 11 2022 3:10 utc | 202 On Russian gas transit through Ukraine: https://sonar21.com/ukraine-cuts-off-gas-to-europe-and-the-inflation-double-whammy/ Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 3:30 utc | 203 Whoa! This gas restriction business is beyond strange. Does Zelensky, or whoever is really in charge there, think he can force more concessions out of NATO by doing this? Posted by: Citizenfitz | May 11 2022 3:37 utc | 204 A most interesting conundrum. Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 11 2022 3:41 utc | 205 K | May 11 2022 3:02 utc | 199 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 3:42 utc | 206 @ K & dh – I didn’t know that either! Say it in broken English. ; ) Posted by: K | May 11 2022 3:42 utc | 207 CharlesLutherThanos #162
Not just any lizard – see Komodo Island for the lizard in mind. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 3:46 utc | 208 What hit this tank? Posted by: Anonymous | May 11 2022 4:03 utc | 209 K @ 182, Lex Talionis @ 200: Posted by: Jen | May 11 2022 4:15 utc | 210 When I was a wee lad, I watched monster movie where a pair of monster was slugging out, trampling an enormous city, typically Tokyo, but one of them was a good guy (I am too old to remember why, denizens of Tokyo could rejoice being stomped, together with their entire building, by the good monster, or lament being stomped by a bad monster, so do not move there).
What makes principles most important is that they are more important than others. So democracy, gay rights, asylum policy, and even relations with China (a principle?) go to the back of the room. To the front: unchangeability of national borders (like annexation of Western Sahara or creation of Northern Cyprus and Kosovo), and nations trying to hold veto power over the policy choices of their neighbors. Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 11 2022 4:15 utc | 211 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 3:46 utc | 206 “Not just any lizard – see Komodo Island for the lizard in mind.” Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 4:16 utc | 212 @ uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 3:46 utc | 206 who makes USA corruption sound like an aged and valued single malt….grin Posted by: psychohistorian | May 11 2022 4:25 utc | 213 . . .from Kyiv Post: Posted by: Don Bacon | May 11 2022 4:26 utc | 214 Orban vs Oilban. Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 4:28 utc | 215 Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 4:28 utc | 213 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 4:35 utc | 216 Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 11 2022 4:15 utc | 209 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 4:39 utc | 217 psychohistorian | May 11 2022 4:25 utc | 211 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 4:51 utc | 218 IMO, the decision to reduce the flow was made in Washington, so it must be aimed at Germany and Northern Europe. The attempt by EU to impose an EU-wide embargo on Russian oil imports failed, so this move might be tied to that failure to further destabilize Europe. Posted by: Doug Hillman | May 11 2022 4:52 utc | 219 S @190– From Rybar Telegram channel…A short update on apparent Ukrainian plans for counteroffensives…
Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 5:42 utc | 221 @ CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 2:46 utc | 195 Posted by: james | May 11 2022 5:44 utc | 222 Posted by: james | May 11 2022 5:44 utc | 220 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 5:50 utc | 223 A little trick mentioned on the Colonel Cassad Telegram channel… I’ll have to remember this for the time when I have a drone and some grenades. 🙂
Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 5:53 utc | 224 @ richard… it is a very poor reflection of the type of thinking leading ukraine here… this level of stupidity can’t survive for long – pr, or no pr… they are essentially fucked if they keep this up.. on the other hand, maybe it was cia – m16 encouragement… with friends like these, you don’t need enemies.. Posted by: james | May 11 2022 5:53 utc | 225 Posted by: james | May 11 2022 5:53 utc | 223 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 5:55 utc | 227 Jacob Dreizin’s latest… Has some video of Victory Day in Mariupol. Points out that after a month of the supposed “switchblade drone” hype, there appears to be not one video of it being successfully used. Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 6:02 utc | 228 @199 K | May 11 2022 3:02 utc – “The Vietnam protests are still I believe the largest in history, little did we know that no matter how many of us said no the PTB were never going to listen. The fault of our generation is that we didn’t have the base of solidarity (it having been wiped out decades before) to protest the political establishment behind the war. We were naive and that’s pretty natural for teenagers.” Posted by: Grieved | May 11 2022 6:04 utc | 229 OK, filter is dropping me again. I think this filter is set to drop you if you make too many posts within a short time. It assumes you’re spamming. So I’m going away now until much later. Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 6:07 utc | 230 @ richard… come back tomorrow.. i am sure it will be fine… many folks appreciate all your posts.. thanks.. Posted by: james | May 11 2022 6:11 utc | 231 Andrei Martyanov said this in his last talk, about NATO’s catastrophe around Snake Island, but he says it many times, many ways, “for many years”…
Please believe it. It’s the truth, and the story of this war — fated to ever go untold where merchants of crappy arms control the narrative. Arthur Miller’s (arguably) most memorable masterpiece All My Sons (1946), directed by and dedicated to Elia Kazan, confronts a father’s terrible crime of war-profiteering — selling shoddy goods to the military, resulting in the death of his own son. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 11 2022 6:16 utc | 232 grenade cup idea is pretty ingenious.. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 11 2022 6:26 utc | 233 Lot of people asking ‘what happened to the anti-war hippies?’ and ‘what happened to the Generation of Peace?’ and ‘Make Love, not War?’ Posted by: Hidari | May 11 2022 6:31 utc | 234 @CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 1:15 utc | 169
It makes it harder to censor if you can’t find it 🙂 Maybe the idea is that the censors are below average smart. Posted by: Norwegian | May 11 2022 7:04 utc | 235 @Rae | May 11 2022 1:19 utc | 173
Unless you back that up with some facts, I would say that claim backfires on you. Posted by: Norwegian | May 11 2022 7:30 utc | 236 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 10 2022 21:56 utc | 100 Posted by: Martina | May 11 2022 8:03 utc | 237 @ uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 3:46 utc | 206 Re: Posted by: MarkU | May 11 2022 8:15 utc | 238 jesus, but that was a brutal overview in your post from the russia mod….. Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 11 2022 8:20 utc | 239 https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/bulgarians-fear-russia-could-attack-their-country/ Posted by: Wim | May 11 2022 8:21 utc | 240 Don Bacon [212] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 11 2022 8:23 utc | 241 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 11 2022 5:50 utc | 221 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 11 2022 8:26 utc | 242 S #135
Thank you. That was a great speech. I admire this Lukashenko for his direct style and sincerity. These are times of great words and powerful imaginings of peace, I trust that many in the west will hear. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 8:27 utc | 243 Am I right in thinking that the Soyuz pipeline goes across Ukraine to Slovakia? If so, is this a threat to Slovakia (and Hungary) to ‘get in line’? Posted by: chris owen | May 11 2022 8:38 utc | 244 Grieved #226
Thank you for the reminder. Much was achieved and much stillborn yet we still ride Further. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 9:12 utc | 245 I haven’t been able to connect to eng.mil.ru for several days, neither with VPN or Tor. And frankly, I’m not doing well without my two daily shots of military reports. Does anyone know any other place to get them right after release? Anyway, it’s great to see them sometimes posted here. Posted by: Sarmat | May 11 2022 9:16 utc | 246 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 11 2022 8:26 utc | 239 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 11 2022 9:22 utc | 247 Aleph_Null #229 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 9:27 utc | 248 Posted by: Martina | May 11 2022 8:03 utc | 234 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 11 2022 9:27 utc | 249 HAH! The filter is allowing my original username again! What a POS… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 11 2022 9:28 utc | 250 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 8:27 utc | 240 Posted by: Sarmat | May 11 2022 9:30 utc | 251 Paul Greenwood #239
Agreed. That island is also a mighty important speck for flank defence against a southern sea based resupply to Odessa or worse. I assume it is mainly a very special cog in the Russian wheel in the planned liberation of Odessa. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 9:39 utc | 252 ooops to my #249 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 9:42 utc | 253 Dmitry Medvedev: The goal of US assistance to Ukraine is to continue the proxy war against Russia, the desire to inflict a heavy defeat on our country, limit its economic development and political influence in the world. Posted by: Kim | May 11 2022 9:48 utc | 254 The result of the arrival of an air bomb at Azovstal Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 11 2022 9:48 utc | 255 It’s not conservative vs liberal. Posted by: D J G | May 11 2022 9:55 utc | 256 Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 10 2022 18:18 utc | 15 Posted by: juliania | May 11 2022 10:12 utc | 257 Grieved | May 11 2022 6:04 utc | 226 Posted by: john | May 11 2022 10:17 utc | 258 @Sarmat | May 11 2022 9:16 utc | 243 Posted by: aquadraht | May 11 2022 10:22 utc | 259 The Gas line switch off isn’t that big judging by MSM. Posted by: Jpc | May 11 2022 10:45 utc | 260 Posted by: pachinko | May 10 2022 19:13 utc | 47 Posted by: drezzo | May 11 2022 11:00 utc | 261 Posted by: aquadraht | May 11 2022 10:22 utc | 256 Posted by: Sarmat | May 11 2022 11:02 utc | 262 For those who want an alternative perspective to the Western mainstream BS, all you have to do is download Telegram It’s a superior Russian whatsapp. Posted by: JulianJ | May 11 2022 11:06 utc | 263 I have been reading a lot about Ukraine cutting off the Gas to Europe and that that decision was made by Washington. FWIW I don’t think this is the case for a number of reasons. I believe this is Zelensky’s decision, purely his. The UAF are losing badly in Donbass with a major breakthrough by Russia. His troops are failing horribly at the cost of a lot of life so he knows the chances of mounting any serious resistance to the RF Army is limited. He has been calling for weeks for NATO to invade Russia if you like and to commit troops to Ukraine, to no avail. The problem now is, the USA, Canada, UK and EU countries have all but deified Zelensky to the point of denying it is a Nazi Government and the truth about the corruption within it and building him up to be a hero of monumental stature, that they cannot now walk back on that and he knows that. After Scholz’s ridiculous behaviour and comments on 9th May 2022 he cannot now go to Russia and ask them to restart Nordstream 2. In Zelensky, they have created a monster with a monstrous ego who now believes he runs the world and has the power to do so. Well, when the RF complete their actions in the Donbass I suspect this pipe will be taken under the ownership of Gazprom (RF) since it is a trend in the West now to seize assets. Well, since they have got themselves into a situation from which they cannot now back down or walk back with the RF what are the collective West going to do now? Any Politicians who have stature and are serious minded in their task will start negotiations with the RF. But they won’t. I’m curious now as to how this is going to progress. For me, the difference in dealing with President Putin and Zelensky is the former is a serious minded Statesman who understands negotiation, international relations and diplomacy and who has deep levels of personal integrity leading to sound and strong decision making. The latter. Well, he is an idiotic television comedian who is totally unfit for office and who has no expertise or experience to hold the post he has. He is a 2 bit television comedian whose Cabinet comprises of friends from Television. He has no understanding of politics and is a shallow, thieving, liar. What are they going to do with him? Posted by: Jo Dominich | May 11 2022 11:06 utc | 264 #—Posted by: c1ue | May 10 2022 22:14 utc | 107 Posted by: Anne B | May 11 2022 11:28 utc | 265 @ drezzo | May 11 2022 11:00 utc | 258 Posted by: MarkU | May 11 2022 11:35 utc | 266 How can Europe be bribed away from this?
Posted by: Anne B | May 11 2022 11:36 utc | 267 #—-Posted by: malenkov | May 11 2022 0:04 utc | 14 Posted by: Anne B | May 11 2022 11:57 utc | 268 Posted by: K | May 11 2022 0:32 utc | 154 Posted by: Sushi | May 11 2022 12:16 utc | 269 @ #47_pachinko Posted by: PaulH | May 11 2022 12:19 utc | 270 Communism verses Capitalism. How convenient for the “City of London” to keep the discussions centered around only 2 alternatives. The real fear of “The City of London is: Posted by: GEORGE M CHAMBERLAIN | May 11 2022 12:35 utc | 271 A shocking (for the average Westerner) interview with a former French military man who went to Ukraine on a humanitarian mission and spent three weeks there. Shocking – due to the significant discrepancy between the picture from MSM & TV, reflecting the constructed alternative reality and actual reality “on the ground”.
Posted by: PaulH | May 11 2022 12:19 utc | 267 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 11 2022 12:50 utc | 273 The Shah seemed to have pulled his shackles, if not to say shekels – is that why he was ousted? Posted by: Bemildred | May 11 2022 12:51 utc | 274 Alexander Vindman is back. You remember him, traitor to his uniform. He publicly testified that his
His article reads like a Raytheon wet dream. Posted by: librul | May 11 2022 12:59 utc | 275 All of this is due to only 5% of the Ukrainian population. This vindicates Cobb’s assessment of the 1789 revolution. But it is stunning to contemplate such massive effects from such a small group. Posted by: K | May 11 2022 13:03 utc | 276 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 11 2022 9:27 utc | 246
All the force structure, objectives, and logistics planning for those exercises required a lead time of at least a year. I suspect they were timed to coincide with the completion of NATO training of the Uki Donbass forces. You can throw the Kazakhstan kerfuffle into the mix as RF would have faced a two-front conflict. Donbass in front, Kazakhstan in the rear. Posted by: Sushi | May 11 2022 13:04 utc | 277 Aleph_Null #229 Posted by: Bemildred | May 11 2022 13:07 utc | 278 … Posted by: anon2020 | May 11 2022 13:08 utc | 279 @SCan|May 10 2022 22:59 utc|123
In Slavic languages “stranica” (stranitsa) is diminutive form of “strana”. Posted by: LongCovid | May 11 2022 13:24 utc | 280 …And it occurs to me that that may also have much to do with the rather conventional nature of the conflict so far, the Russians don’t want to show too much. Typical Putin, use the minimal calibrated amount of force to get the job done, and it looks like he is going to (well, may) leave another “frozen conflict” behind this time too. Posted by: anon2020 | May 11 2022 13:29 utc | 281 According to this all the civilians are now out of the Azovstal complex and the RF can continue with clearing out the Nazi’s and any international mad dog mercenaries and international troops/commanders,advisors. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 13:37 utc | 282 Residents of Kherson could be given a referendum on whether to join the Russian Federation or not. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 13:39 utc | 283 Looks like Glenn Greenwald was thinking along the same lines (see librul @272)
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/biden-wanted-33b-more-for-ukraine?s=r Posted by: librul | May 11 2022 13:42 utc | 284 The US to push a propaganda war aimed at Russians in the hope they turn against Putin, this stinks of desperation to me. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 13:43 utc | 285 sushi@266 Posted by: bevin | May 11 2022 13:51 utc | 286 Ha, we said basically the same thing but I waffled on for a bit, our comments must have crossed in cyberspace =) Posted by: Bemildred | May 11 2022 13:52 utc | 287 I’ve read and heard on radio news that the UK PM Boris Johnson is doing a whistle-stop tour of Sweden and Finland today, we all know that Sweden and Finland are ready to join Nato, one wonders if Johnson is visiting to ask if Nato troops and equipment can be deployed in the countries soon, I say that with this in mind. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 13:54 utc | 288 Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov hits back at the possibility of food shortages and other shortages that the West is blaming on Russia, the Wests illegal sanctions will be the cause of shortages. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 13:58 utc | 289 These are strong and untrue words from the Vilnius parliament in Lithuania. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 14:06 utc | 290 I find this statement by Lavrov to pretty accurate. Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 11 2022 14:09 utc | 291 Re: Vindman’s piece….we tend to forget that since at least the end of WW2, and probably well before that, nearly all the people who immigrated to the US from Russia and Eastern Europe were fleeing Stalin and the USSR. Their memories of that regime were stark, terrible, and embedded in their bones, I would say, rightfully. As one of those boomers everyone disparages born in the late 40s I remember vividly growing up in an era when Russia and the Communists were the existential enemy and terror. For at least the last century there has been an enormous diaspora of people who have moved to the West who loathed Russia, and their beliefs have surely been passed down to their children and grandchildren. It is now an almost genetic hatred. And if you look, today, at the people the State Department relies on for advice, they tend to be from this diaspora – Alexander Vinbdman a perfect example – and this matrix of anti-Russian descendents is the group from which the US Government and State Department chooses to receive advice. No wonder then Russiaphobia is rampant. Now combine with with the uncomfortable little fact that the US chose to bring over lots of Nazis after the war because we turned immediately to confronting Russia and Stalin once the war ended, this turn really the continuation of actions we had been taking since the end of WW1 at least except for that blip of time 1933-1945 when the Nazis got in the way. How many readers here know that the US dispatched US military forces to Russia in 1919 to fight with the White Russians against the Bolsheviks until about 1922? Today the second most powerful person in the Canadian government is the direct descendent of a Nazi collaborator, a Bandarist, from Ukraine. Before WW2 there was a huge group of Americans, and in Europe, too, who wished to confront Stalin, not Hitler, believing communism worse than Nazism. So today I think we are seeing two things – one, the narrative overwhelmingly being driven from the diaspora of anti-Stalin refugee descendents and, two, the active normalization of a view that is being formed such that very soon everyone will be saying, yes, Nazis are bad, but the Russians are worse….My father who served in the First Special Service Force and ski troops in WW2, who invaded Anzio, liberated Rome, invaded southern France and then fought through France into Germany and liberated Buchenwald must be turning over in his grave…. Posted by: Boomheist | May 11 2022 14:18 utc | 292 Sushi | May 11 2022 12:16 utc | 266:
Except it isn’t so simple. That 5% are not acting alone. The 5% in the Ukraine are just the ones in the limelight committing the most visible crimes. Furthermore, socialist movements are always acting alone and are opposed by all of capitalism’s tools of power: employers (of course), the State (police, courts, political system, etc), mass media, the educated elites (universities), the Church, and even big business arts and entertainment. With fascist movements all of these forces line up behind the fascists, while they always join forces against socialists. Posted by: William Gruff | May 11 2022 14:24 utc | 293 “…nearly all the people who immigrated to the US from Russia and Eastern Europe were fleeing Stalin and the USSR. Their memories of that regime were stark, terrible, and embedded in their bones, I would say, rightfully…” Boomheist@289 Posted by: bevin | May 11 2022 14:30 utc | 294 @CharlesLutherThanos #151 Posted by: c1ue | May 11 2022 14:33 utc | 295 @290 Seems anti-Moskal sentiment in Ukraine is a stronger motivating force than any isms. Posted by: dh | May 11 2022 14:35 utc | 296 CharlesLutherThanos @ 225 Posted by: circumspect | May 11 2022 14:40 utc | 297 @Peter AU1 #153 Posted by: c1ue | May 11 2022 14:43 utc | 298 How does the War Party elegantly walk away ? How can the war party declare its lame efforts a success ? Posted by: Exile | May 11 2022 14:47 utc | 299 Wow, Posted by: malamatias | May 11 2022 14:53 utc | 300 |
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