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May 08, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-62

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

Posted by b on May 8, 2022 at 14:04 UTC | Permalink

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BBC is reporting that a Russian missile hit the school in Donbas where refugees were hiding with scores of dead and wounded. To me this is very likely a false flag action taken by desperate Ukrainian army. The civilians are obviously Russian speakers.

Posted by: Milos | May 8 2022 14:14 utc | 1

From the previous thread,

What are their radars doing? Why didn't they see these planes coming?

Shit happens, especially in war.
Maybe somebody was taking a dump?!

In response to Scorpion@284,

Russian analysts claim that the positions were abandoned in advance, after which Ukrainians hit empty positions and abandoned equipment. After which, Ukrainians attempted to land on the island with choppers and landing craft, which were destroyed from the air. Part of the footage released by Ukraine, particularly the destroyed helicopter, actually shows the destruction of Ukrainian soldiers and equipment.

Posted by: Skiffer | May 8 2022 14:20 utc | 2

Just wondering, it seems Ukraine has limitless supply of fighter jets and helicopters. How come they keep flying these crafts knowing they will be shot down?

Posted by: Enigma | May 8 2022 14:36 utc | 3

Milos | May 8 2022 14:14 utc | 1

it was being used as a barracks apparently.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 14:40 utc | 4

Referring here to the “must read” article on the week in review post. The. New Left Review article. And this is the Ukraine thread.

The level of indoctrination and wishful thinking is stunning. Summary: The war means Russia is forfeit to China and Europe is more tightly joined to US than ever. The loss of Russia is negligible next to the gain in Europe. Win-win regardless of fate of Ukraine.

No need to spell out why that analysis is preposterous. It is a major current of thought, if you can call it thought. Semantics of calling this “New Left” are lost on me.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 8 2022 14:46 utc | 5

So what (if anything) will take place at the May 9th Victory Day event in Moscow? Will Putin display NATO captures from Ukraine? Will he just have a parade? Will NATO or someone try to attack the viewing stand?

My guess is the parade will be held and nothing really specific to Ukraine will be displayed, Putin will have the event for the sake of the national memory of the war, dignified, and carry on, but I won't be surprised if we learn in the next few hours that Russia does have a few NATO staff from Avostol in their hands. It seems all the civilians are now gone, leaving only wounded and fit soldiers, and while some of the wounded may be treated I expect the soldiers to be captured or starved out. It does seem to me that, as some other commenters have pointed out, the Russians may not be as super efficient as some claim, this attack seems to have bogged down, and every day before Zelinskey must surrender is another day fro NATO to strengthen the backfill of weapons and Western resolve.

The latest missile strike and civilian death attack is in the news, and while some think this is yet another false flag there is always the chance of a massive error from Russia as well, the fog of war, again a reason in favor of this thing being wrapped up sooner rather than later, especially as it now seems the West wants this to go on forever.

There are just too many zealots thinking a few tactical nukes might be the answer.....

Posted by: Boomheist | May 8 2022 14:49 utc | 6

Alister Crooke has an article at Al Mayadeen
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/the-path-from-sanctions-to-military-escalator---paved-by-mis

He links to this article in Tass from April 28 that I had not seen.

https://tass.com/politics/1444887
"According to information received by Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service, Washington and Warsaw are working on plans to establish Poland’s tight military and political control over ‘its historic territories’ in Ukraine," the SVR’s press service quoted the agency’s director Sergey Naryshkin as saying.

Based on the intelligence agency’s information, the first stage of this "reunification" would be Polish troops entering western Ukraine under the slogan of "defending it from Russian aggression." Currently, the details of the future mission are being discussed with the Biden administration. "According to preliminary agreements, it would be conducted without a NATO mandate, but with a ‘coalition of interested’ states. Warsaw has not yet been able to gather any potential participants for this ‘coalition of the willing’," the SVR noted.

That said, the Russian state agency noted that the Polish government is not interested in "extra witnesses" to its operation....

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 14:49 utc | 7

All civilians now evacuated from the Azovstal steel plant, a 1000 soldiers (no specifics on nationality) also emerged holding a white flag, they have be taken into custody, its thought that there's still personnel hiding under the plant.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:51 utc | 8

UNSG Guterres, a Bilderberger and Club Madrid member, is complicit on information he knew about civilians being held hostage and used as human shields by the Nazi's at the Azovstal Complex.


http://johnhelmer.net/did-un-secretary-general-guterres-commit-a-war-crime-at-azovstal/#more-48015

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:51 utc | 9

At Snake Island.

"The following have been shot down in the air: 1 Ukrainian Su-24 bomber, 1 Su-27 fighter jet, 3 Mi-8 helicopters with paratroopers and 2 Bayraktar-TB2 UAV. The Ukrainian amphibious assault boat Stanislav has also been destroyed."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:52 utc | 10

@ enigma... good question.. i don't understand that either myself..

@ peter au... i can't help but think this poland taking part of ukraine is a bullshit story put in the media to create more uncertainty.. i find it highly unlikely, as it is essentially agreeing to a break up of ukraine... since when has nato went along with that? in fact, they have been fighting it tooth and nail all along.. - crimea... etc. etc..

@ republicofscotland... thanks for the update..

Posted by: james | May 8 2022 14:53 utc | 11

james | May 8 2022 14:53 utc | 11

I can see US allowing Poland to grab some of western Ukraine With the view of using it as a save haven and breeding ground for nazi's. US knows it has lost eastern Ukraine for good now so apart from Poles getting slaughtered if Russia is unhappy about it, US has got nothing to lose

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 15:02 utc | 12

Meanwhile...in the world uspide down of the "New Orwellian Nazi World Order"....Absent any Russian representative, the people who took the major loses in the great war....

Berlin.
Ukrainian ambassador Melnik lays wreaths at the monument to Soviet soldiers to the shouts of the crowd: "Nazi!".

https://t.me/IrinaMar1004_Z/1344

In a further intent of confussing the masses and whitewashing the Ukrainian openly nazi regime, so that the people do not realize they were the ancestors of this Melnik´s neonazis and their masters in the III Reich ( some of whom were ditrect ancestors of some of the ministers of the new German government and EU Comission´s German head...) who took the lives of those fallen they play paying tribute while supporting, training and arming the ideological and living successors of their killers in Ukraine...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 8 2022 15:03 utc | 13

Boomheist, found the concern troll.

Posted by: Pitor | May 8 2022 15:15 utc | 14

@Posted by: Boomheist | May 8 2022 14:49 utc |

For starters, the Immortal Regiment will come back to the streets of Moscow and the Red Square after two years absent due the pandemic.

As it has been today in several countries and locations, not without a few Ukrainian extremists´provocations which were fastly suffocated by the law enforcement forces.

Immortal Regiments took place in Madrid, Venezuela ( first time ever...), Panama, Uruguay and so on...

https://t.me/ri_madrid_press/69

Attention to the extremely well feed extremists insulting the crowd celebrating the fallen during WWII against fascism...It is obvious they do not lack funds and also that they do not need to move a finger to work in Spain, thanks to NATO...
It is already known, as broadcasted by public local radios, that they come here with a 625 euro pension free of charges, plus free alocation and home spending...What´s not to like amongst the mother of all crisis and galloping inflation and lose of purchasing power for the European taxpayers, when most people in Europe fights hard to make ends meet....Just quite better than the average taxpayer and pensioner in Spain...those who have contributed and contribute to raise the country while the officials waste the budget funding fascist extremists from Ukraine who due their idle life come here but to cause turmoil...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 8 2022 15:18 utc | 15

Biden intended for Ukraine to be the new Afghanistan for Russia, but it backfired. Ukraine is America's (second) Afghanistan.
https://readingjunkie.com/2022/05/07/ukraine-is-the-new-afghanistan-for-us/

Posted by: Ian Kummer | May 8 2022 15:21 utc | 16

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:51 utc | 8

Tass has a story denying any Ukrainian forces surrendering from Avostol.

https://tass.com/world/1448313?utm_source=thesaker.is&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=thesaker.is&utm_referrer=thesaker.is

Posted by: Undercutter | May 8 2022 15:23 utc | 17

Let's recap

NYT | U.S. Exposes What It Says Is Russian Effort to Fabricate Pretext for Invasion, 3 Feb

NBC News | In a break with the past, U.S. is using intel to fight an info war with Russia, even when the intel isn't rock solid, 6 Apr

Most ignorant, litigious nation on planet reports a NEW! low rent consensus among advance economies
8 May 2022 tabloid USA headline
Your keys to secrets of PUTIN's WAR for just $4.99/mo.!

Posted by: sln | May 8 2022 15:29 utc | 18

@ oldhippie | May 8 2022 14:46 utc | 5

I got lost in that NLR tract. Thanks for helping me out with such a handy summary!

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 15:30 utc | 19

@ Peter AU1

Which ever way you cut it, Poland moving into western Ukraine would be further NATO expansion eastwards with or without any mandate, as Poland is a NATO member.

Putin is on record numerous times stating no more eastward expansion by NATO.

I cannot see how Russia could allow this to happen without the world seeing it as a NATO victory. Apart from the obvious re-arming and re-training of Ukraine and other allied & mercenary soldiers with the billion$ of new arms being sent - at some point - there would also be more US missile systems put there which could hit Moscow in mere minutes.

Should Washington encourage Poland to make this move all bets are off and this special military operation will quickly escalate into a wider conflict possibly leading to WW3 with all that that entails.

NATO have been warned on numerous occassions not to directly interfere.

Putin is also on record on numerous occassions stating quite clearly that the next war will not be fought on Russian territory.

Let us all hope that the Poles are not as stupid as those in London and Washington - but signs are not good.

Posted by: Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20

Undercutter (17).

Thanks for the link, I think 100% conformation of facts during this conflict can be difficult to come by, as both sides chop and change information to match their opposing agendas

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 15:59 utc | 21

@ Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 15:02 utc | 12

i guess it comes down to @ Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20 question at the end... are they really that stupid? i can't see it working out.. usa-nato will have to alter all the propaganda that have cultivated for the past number of years too, to explain the rationale for that...

unrelated quote from telegram -

Slavyangrad - Gleb Bazov
@rybar reports: 🇺🇦 Nationalists from the Azov Regiment, locked at the Mariupol Azovstal plant, today held a press conference for the Ukrainian media. The deputy commander of Azov, Svyatoslav Palamar (Kalina), accused the Ukrainian authorities of “cynicism” and disruption of preparations for war (though without naming specific names).

The day before, Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Irina Vereshchuk already stated that all civilians had been evacuated from Azovstal. However, the Azov people said they were not sure that they had evacuated everyone. Like, we need to sort out the rubble.

In fact, Zelensky and his team are now trying to squeeze the maximum “overcome” out of the evacuation - they say, yes, “the heroic defenders of Azovstal died, but we evacuated at least all the civilians.” And Kalina, with its media activity, breaks this picture for him. Resentment is heard in his words: they were never saved, and only death awaits ahead. I wonder how soon in their appeals "Kalina" will begin to name the specific culprits in the death of "Azov"?

For the Kiev authorities, of course, it is more profitable now that “due to the fault of the Russian occupiers”, Kalina and the company suddenly lost the Internet, and they themselves were buried right under Azovstal.

And that can be inconvenient. A symbol of heroic resistance can turn against its own creators.

Posted by: james | May 8 2022 15:59 utc | 22

Undercutter (17).

Maybe this is the origin of the report.

https://t.me/intelslava/28158

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:02 utc | 23

Undercutter (17).

It probably doesn't add any gravitas to the report, but the Donbas Insider has the white flag story as well.


https://www.donbass-insider.com/fr/2022/05/08/marioupol-les-derniers-civils-ont-evacue-azovstal/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:12 utc | 24

There's a Bruce Cockburn song, which has always profoundly puzzled me:

I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher, if I had a rocket launcher
If I had a rocket launcher, I would retaliate

The current sitrep from Saker's blog bring to mind an alternate rhyme: "I'd hope it's up-to-date" -- Testimony of captured Ukrainian soldiers, as you might expect, comprises somewhat less than a 5-star review of surplus war toys the West throws at them:

Vadim Zholko, a soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine: “Their Javelin and NLAW grenade launchers, which were very much advertised, showed themselves in practice as they really were. There were misfires. They usually shoot one out of four, ”said the prisoner. The fired projectiles explode at fifty meters before reaching the target, or do not work at all. “That is, there were many of those whose batteries were expired,” the prisoner of war shared his impression of what he saw. The man complained that the training at the training grounds was mainly theoretical – “they showed it in a fast way.” Why misfires regularly occur was not explained to recruits. The reason became clear during the fighting – most of the batches of weapons had an expired shelf life.

It's the West's dominant narrative and crap armaments versus Russia's boring narrative and operational armaments. In a clear-cut conflict of narrative versus armaments, it seems easy to foresee brittle narrative snapping under kinetic strain.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 25

Probably a good opportunity for the boffins in the tech section of the Russian military back home to reverse engineer this and find its weaknesses.


"Russian forces taking part in the ongoing special military operation in Ukraine has captured a nearly intact British-made Brimstone precision-guided missile.

On May 8, Russian sources shared photos of the missile, which was allegedly found by Russian forces near a front in Zaporizhzhia oblast. The missile reportedly failed seconds after being launched by Kiev forces. The missile sustained very little damage."


https://southfront.org/russian-forces-captured-british-made-brimstone-missile-in-ukraines-zaporizhzhia-photos/


Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 26

Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:51 utc | 8

All civilians now evacuated from the Azovstal steel plant, a 1000 soldiers (no specifics on nationality) also emerged holding a white flag, they have be taken into custody, its thought that there's still personnel hiding under the plant.

That all civilians are evacuated was confirmed by the Ukraine government, though Azov's leaders said they were not sure.
According to https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/14573671?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop
A representative of the Southern Military District said that the Ukrainian military did not come out with a white flag from Azovstal

Posted by: aquadraht | May 8 2022 16:21 utc | 27

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 25

It's the West's dominant narrative and crap armaments versus Russia's boring narrative and operational armaments. In a clear-cut conflict of narrative versus armaments, it seems easy to foresee brittle narrative snapping under kinetic strain."

National militaries often have to get rid of old ordinance before their governments authorize ordering and purchase of new. That they are offloading all their old crap indicates to me that they are about to ramp up with new stuff, albeit that probably won't be ready for a year or so. In which case this might indicate they are planning to keep the conflict going that long at least.

Whether or not this fits with Russian plans/desires remains to be seen. They are only using a small percentage of their force. They are going through a heckuva lot of ordinance but depending on their setup maybe this is easily and rapidly replaced. Because from Mother Russia's point of view, the longer things continue just as they are, the more likely Europe-US goes into nasty depression and the sooner that happens the better from their pov.

Russia's bet is that the West will not be able to front a determined all-out war in a year or so due to widespread internal political and economic turmoil. With supply chains freezing up, energy flows severely limited, world wide fertilizer shortage not to mention drought in US, the West couldn't be worse set up. It's almost like it's been organized somehow by hoonohoos!

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 16:27 utc | 28

awfulavalanche has a wonderful piece on Popasnaya, covering both its strategic value and its history:

"It is said that, he who commands [Popasnaya] has the open steppe as his oyster: He can move his forces either West or North at will, whichever (or both) gives the best tactical results."

https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com

I think the liberation of Popasnaya has given many of us a sense of relief. We knew it would come, but now it's here. I guess Putin will mention it tomorrow.

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 16:29 utc | 29

They are going through a heckuva lot of ordinance but depending on their setup maybe this is easily and rapidly replaced...
Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 16:27 utc | 28

Western arms shipped to Ukraine might be crap which doesn't work most of the time, but it's still more expensive, I assume, than the ordinance Russia uses to blow it all up, the moment shipments cross the Polish border. Temporarily, everyone's happy -- war-profiteers enjoy the expanding opportunity and Russia enjoys draining the West (it's just us hapless, insignificant proles left holding the pooper-scooper). But at some point the well runs dry. My bet is the West runs out of systems for Russia to play target-practice upon, a long time before Russia runs out of ordinance.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 16:40 utc | 30

The cherry on the ice cream, Bono and the Edge performing in the Kiev underground. I'm sure they'll collect the scarce spare change they hardly deserve. Long live the spectacle.

Posted by: Paco | May 8 2022 16:40 utc | 31

@25
According to Cockburn it came from visiting Guatemalan refugee camps in Mexico. " I can't imagine writing it under any other conditions ".

Posted by: mi | May 8 2022 16:48 utc | 32

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 16:29 utc | 29

Thanks. A great little blog. Albeit with bad news a few days ago:

https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com/2022/05/06/ukraine-war-day-72-the-ukrainians-took-grandma/

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 16:51 utc | 33

@31

Bobo and The Itch bathed in magenta light performing two tunes for very few invited guests.

Purely a publicity stunt, CIA's Bobo can always be found on the wrong side of every issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWIWQgJY1VQ

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 8 2022 16:53 utc | 34

Poland does have a history of opportunistically (and myopically) seizing territory from distressed neighbors (eg Teschen from the Czechs in 1938). Of course, even when Poland was being recreated in 1918-20, it also seized by force Galicia-Volhynia and Vilnius, all territories in dispute with also-newly-created (but much weaker) neighbors as well (how history repeats a 100 years after, with literally same participants!)

Posted by: hk | May 8 2022 17:01 utc | 35

Azov will keep in doubt whether there are any remaining civilians because it's likely they killed some civilians and IF those bodies are found the deaths will be blamed on the RF. Most likely all will be turned to rubble, in which case the deaths will be blamed on the RF.

Posted by: Seer | May 8 2022 17:08 utc | 36

Biden admits Russia won WWII

Remember the two feuding women who went to King Solomon? The first woman genuinely loved the baby, because he was hers. The roommate only wanted the baby out of jealousy and spite. So when Solomon offered to divide the baby in half, this upset only the true mother. That’s effectively what happened with Victory Day. The West demanded half the holiday, then dropped it out of disinterest. Now the holiday only exists in the East, while the West actively tries to spite it.

https://readingjunkie.com/2022/05/08/biden-admits-russia-won-wwii-and-other-news/

Posted by: Ian Kummer | May 8 2022 17:08 utc | 37

On the question of how long the special operation (or war) in Ukraine is likely to last, two extreme answers are:
1. It's already over. "The Ukrainian Army Has Been Defeated." as of 21 March 2022 (7 weeks ago) according to Larry Johnson, as quoted by Mike Whitney in his article at the Unz Review.
and,
2. The war will continue for months or — hopefully — years, according to the wishes of the US military.

Can anyone provide a more reasonable, and reasoned, answer? This month? This summer? By the end of this year?

Posted by: Mark Mosby | May 8 2022 17:16 utc | 38

If Russians bomb only hospitals, schools and kindergartens and killed 52,000 Ukrainian military it means they were hidden there.

Posted by: Milan | May 8 2022 17:19 utc | 39

ICM, the main scale model kit manufacturer in Ukraine will soon release a 'Ghost of Kyiv' kit. You might think all but apparently only half the profits from that kit will go to the Ukrainian military.

https://icm.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/72140-en-1024x768.jpg

What's so funny is here is a Western site covering the news.

https://www.themodellingnews.com/2022/04/preview-real-grey-ghost-of-kyiv-appears.html

The story of the "Ghost of Kyiv" & his fate are up for scrutiny, but the effect he has had on Ukraine & people from around the world is undisputed. His legend has inspired ICM to make a kit with Ukrainian digital camo & some proceeds going to the Ukrainian defence forces. Find out about the Ghost, & the kit in our preview...

Reports have come in today that the "Ghost", after shooting down as many as 40 Russian aircraft, was identified as Major Stepan Tarabalka, a 29-year-old father of one. A UK newspaper also said that the Tarabalka, whilst flying a MiG-29, was shot down on March 13 while battling an “overwhelming” number of enemy forces. His final tally of enemy aircraft is rumoured to be around 40 enemy aircraft & helicopters.

First the stamp for the Snake Island hoax and now this.

Posted by: Altai | May 8 2022 17:46 utc | 41

One wonders why Biden sent his wife to Ukraine, I doubt it was to talk about hair styles and haute couture.


"US first lady Jill Biden has paid an unannounced visit to Ukraine as part of her trip to Europe, according to a pool report.

Her motorcade crossed the Slovak-Ukrainian border at 14:41 Slovak time (15:41 Moscow time) on Sunday. During her slightly less than two-hour stay in Ukraine, she met with Ukraine’s first lady Elena Zelenskaya, who has not been seen in public since the beginning of Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine on February 24.

The two first ladies had a closed-door meeting, which lasted for about one hour. After that, Jill Biden returned back to Slovakia."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 17:49 utc | 42

Has Scholz taken complete leave of his senses ? With statements like this today he is clearly hellbent on destroying Germany economically and socially and splitting the whole country asunder.

The man is so so weak and politically inept

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2022 17:50 utc | 43

Don’t those two complete bellends, Bozo and The Blunt, have any insight as to what self-important arseholes they appear? Bozo, probably too little to get into an army, pontificates and takes sides as if the chosen side would want their approval and sanction.

With regards to The Edge, is adopting a noun as a name supposed to mean something? The Edge? More like the tipping point into complete mediocrity. They should both fuck off back to Ireland and busk there. It’s embarrassing!

Posted by: Vragtes | May 8 2022 17:57 utc | 44

Now we have the Canadian PM sneaking into Ukraine, Canada has several monuments to Nazi sympathisers, and Chrystia Freeland who holds a position in the Canadian government, is very anti-Russian she has Ukrainian roots and her grandfather edited a pro-Nazi magazine.


"Canadian Prime Minister Justine Trudeau has visited the city of Irpen in the Kiev region, the city’s mayor, Alexander Markushin, wrote on his Telegram channel on Sunday.

"I have just had the honor to speak with Canadian Prime Minister Justine Trudeau. He has arrived in Irpen," he wrote and thanked the Canadian prime minister "for the support Canada is offering to Ukraine."

He also expressed the hope that Trudeau will help "organize the efforts of the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada to restore infrastructure facilities in Irpen." In his words, the city authorities will soon issue corresponding official letters."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:01 utc | 45

Russian Forces have been busy during the night.

"Russian aviation destroyed a communications post at the Chervonoglinskoye airstrip and a Project 1241 corvette near Odessa via precision air-based missiles, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov announced Sunday.

"During the night, Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed a mechanize brigade command post near Pyatikhatka, Kharkov Region, and a communications post at the Chervonoglinskoye airstrip near the settlement of Artsyz," Konashenkov said.

"A Ukrainian Navy Project 1241 corvette was destroyed near Odessa," he added.

According to Konashenkov, during the night, Russian air defense downed two more Ukrainian Su-24 bombers and one Mi-24 helicopter.

He added that one Bayraktar TB-2 drone was downed near Odessa.

Konashenkov added that Russian aviation hit 130 Ukrainian military objects, including two artillery batteries at firing positions and up to 420 nationalists. "Russian aviation hit 130 Ukrainian military objects, including three command posts, 123 personnel and combat vehicle concentration areas, two artillery batteries at firing positions and two missile artillery ammunitions depots near Bakhmut and Krasnopolye," Konashenkov said.

He underscored that the airstrikes eliminated up to 420 nationalists and 55 combat vehicles.

According to Major General, Russian missile forces and artillery eliminated two Ukrainian S-300 missile air defense systems in the Kharkov Region. "Russian missile forces and artillery eliminated 56 command posts, 32 artillery firing positions, 415 personnel and combat vehicles concentration areas, as well as two S-300 missile air defense systems near the settlement of Korotych, Kharkov Region," he said."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:05 utc | 46

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 8 2022 15:18 utc | 15

The EU-funded Galicianization-Nazification of Europe.

Posted by: John Kennard | May 8 2022 18:06 utc | 47

SNAKE ISLAND: team Russia gets pounded by Ukrainian drones and Jets. All on video. Russian MoD makes... unsubstantiated claims. Are Russia's military and state media trying to outdo each other with stupidity and incompetence?

This has to be the weirdest war ever fought. Russia says it wants to demilitarise Ukraine, but somehow after more than 2 months in, Ukraine still operates its air force jets and helicopters, propeller driven drones commit mass murder, enough air defences still operate to prevent Russian jets flying over most of the country and C4 centres in Kiev/Lviv haven't even been touched. Are they waiting for another ship to sink? If actionable threats were a bad deterrent, empty ones are even worse.

Looking more like a Special Needs Operation if you ask me. Who would ever want to join the Russian armed forces after seeing this??? so much for claims the S 400 being able to cover the entire Back Sea... can't even take down drones and old jets in time to protect their own men on the only friggin Island in it!

https://southfront.org/battle-for-snake-island-russian-forces-left-positions-but-prevent-ukrainian-from-gaining-foothold-videos/

Posted by: Et Tu | May 8 2022 18:35 utc | 48

Paul Greenwood (42).

Maybe it just me Paul, but statements like what, I see no statement in your comment apart from your own.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:48 utc | 49

Scholz just mentioned how "77 years ago....Europe....." as if Germany was not involved and "Europe" collectively ended the war.........no mention of USSR or Germany or UK or USA.........

That German "amnesia" and "selective memory" was in full evidence - it was the most mendacious evasive utterance from any German Chancellor - both Helmut Kohl and Helmut Schmidt would be ashamed and no doubt Gerd Schroeder..........

Scholz is a provincial politician unfit for national office like so many in the Bundestag - he will make Germany a minor player like Italy on the world stage. Evasion and failure to acknowledge German responsibility for Minsk Agreements and failure to uphold any agreements since 1990

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2022 18:50 utc | 50

Can anyone provide a more reasonable, and reasoned, answer? This month? This summer? By the end of this year?
Posted by: Mark Mosby | May 8 2022 17:16 utc | 38

Look up Andrei Martyanov, I'd say. You don't want just any answer -- you want a reliable, intelligent answer, from someone without an axe to grind who knows what their talking about.

Martyanov often treats recurrent themes -- making a good point repeatedly. In his last talk, he again assures us that time is on Russia's side, while conversely the West is in a hurry. Economic consequences, from committing monetary suicide on the alter of sanctions, have just barely begun to bite. Russia just announced counter-sanctions. People who think Russians will lose patience have not been paying close attention. Those who say Russia is about to run out of ammunition are utter crackpots...

So Russia can proceed deliberately, allowing NATO to incite further expansion. When your adversary keeps inflicting injuries on itself, it's not a pattern you should hurry to interrupt.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 18:51 utc | 51

Paul Greenwood (48).

Thank you for the clarification.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:56 utc | 52

Poland moving into Ukraine is a trigger that will probably break up NATO.

It is perfect opportunity for Russia to use full force and obliterate Polish/NATO invading forces. Other NATO countries will not directly interfere after the act because this is not some defensive operation. They will be "not my fight". Think Hungary, only more than half NATO countries will sing that song.

After that, NATO spirit will not exist any more, it will be proven paper tiger without any meaning left.

Posted by: Abe | May 8 2022 18:59 utc | 53

oldhippie@5
I may be mistaken but I take the NLR article to be an analysis of the strategy of the mad morons- the Tiger Team (and I bet they have tee shirts if not pyjamas)- which does the thinking for Joe, Pure Fucking Evil, Biden.

Their first priority is to keep things humming for the Death Merchants, like Lockheed. And so they want war and not just the odd skirmish. They want wall to wall war until we are all dead and people like them can pass down their portfolios to the kids they love so much. And their kids.

As Philip Roddis reports today:
"..Antiwar libertarian hero Scott Horton has a viral tweet going around which reads simply, “Biden’s refusal to attempt to negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine is the greatest scandal in American political history...” http://steelcityscribblings.uk/wp/

What the NLR writer is telling us is that the US has decided on a long term bloc strategy which will have two key features, apart from guaranteeing a permanent arms economy to hobble Eurasia's plan to escape poverty by investing in peaceful pursuits and social infrastructure.

The first is the 'weakening' of Russia. They are confident of being able to succeed here because- so the neo-con triumphalists tell them- that is what the US did in the Cold War. It weakened the Soviet Union by maintaining constant pressure, forcing it to devote half its capital to weapon development and impoverishing the masses. Thus being unable to provide them with the Blue Jeans and Rock and Roll that was all over Radio Free Europe. We all know the myth. For people like the egregious Navalny and Bill Kristol it was a reality too.

The second is to tie up Europe- for which the Tiger Team, Biden and their ilk have the sort of contempt a pimp does for a homeless teenage girl asking for change. Put an end to any European talk of independence, a third force in the world and flirtations with BRI, and raise it up to equality with Puerto Rico or Guam. The main object is to make sure that Germany, France, Italy and the lesser states don't start thinking that they are real powers, the way they used to be in Napoleon and Wilhelm II's, because they aren't they are Uncle Sam's whores and they could do a lot worse 'Here's a buck sweetie. Or so thinks Sam.

With Europe taken care of, and look how efficiently the US managed to get them all dancing like a Chorus Line to the Stand with Ukraine tune, Cold War II can get under weigh again, with Europe a totally secure satellite. If George Orwell had known more about missiles he would have written not of 'Airstrip One' but "Missile Launch platform Britannia."

Here's something: Wolfgang Streek has written several articles in the NLR, recently, chronicling the EU's takeover of the prerogatives of the national member governments. I have in fact recommended them, firstly as justification for the UK's getting out of an institution that is rapidly making the old German and Hapsburg Empires look like Peoples Democracies. The EU is a judicial/banker/bureaucrat dictatorship.
And secondly because the new EU, sans sovereign members and separated from democratic influence is designed to do what the US tells it to do. It is the government that goes with a military occupation. With NATO as the Washington Raj's Indian Army.

Personally I think Comrade Streek is pretty well spot on. So I hope that nobody is put off b's 'Must Read' by our old friend and hippie's take. He may be right, but check it out.

Just to put Bono into perspective. The big news is that Sinn Fein- after a century of trying-has won power in Northern Ireland. Add that to the Republic's two stars in Europe Daly and Wallace, and change might be coming. After all before Petrograd 1917 there was Dublin 1916.
Daly and Wallace won't be serenading Nazis in Kiev any time soon- there is something about the treatment the Donbas has got since 2014 that Irish people can empathise with.

This should wash the taste of Bono out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFAzJ7caJho

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2022 19:03 utc | 54

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:48 utc | 47

I assumed others had heard it/read the transcript.......

http://newsrnd.com/news/2022-05-08-tv-speech--scholz-predicts-russia-s-defeat-in-the-ukraine-war---yes-to-further-arms-deliveries.SkzIlDdBUc.html

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2022 19:05 utc | 55

Not a bad synopsis by WSWS on Canada's outsized role in the US-NATO war on Russia. Trudeau and his Banderite deputy pm, Chrystia Freeland are in Kiev today.

May Day 2022: Canadian Imperialism, Hitler's Ukrainian Accomplices, and the NATO-Russia War

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/03/mdr5-m03.html

"Canadian imperialism is playing an especially provocative and belligerent role in the Ukraine war, as it did in the war's propagation and instigation..."

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 8 2022 19:08 utc | 56

hk@35
It is only fair to note that Lwow is a very old Polish city. In Fernand Braudel's Mediterranean Sea in the Age of King Philip II there are many references to Lwow as a representative city in the Polish west. Until the dismantling of Poland in the C18th nobody would have thought of Lwow as anything other than one of Poland's major centres.
Sorry to be pedantic but the Ukrainian Nationalist myth spinning needs to be understood for what it is: ahistorical fascist poison

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2022 19:16 utc | 57

Wtf: Bandera and Chiang Kai-shek:
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2016/06/18/the-2016-super-bloc-vote-part-ii-unleashing-david-vs-the-russian-goliath/

By an interesting journalist : https://nitter.eu/gheliason

The Plot thickens...

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2022 19:26 utc | 58

If the reported air Ukraine air assault on Snake Island is true then the generals there must believe the bullshit put out by NATO and their own leaders. It was a pure suicide mission. Utter madness.

Posted by: circumspect | May 8 2022 19:31 utc | 59

@bevin(55),

Thanks. This is the perspective where I'm coming from though: After WW1, Lithuanians were very insistent about Vilnius/Wilno/etc being their rightful capital based on centuries of history, except, by early 20th century, the region was a mixture of Poles/Jews/Belarusians depending on which parts you looked, and then again "some things" happened over next few decades and the city and the region are Lithuanian again. What I'm getting at is that, over history, for all manner of reasons, things change. I don't think anyone should invoke history of centuries in the past to override the present. I've had strange "debates" with Poles claiming that Breslau/Wroclaw is really an old Polish city (based on really old medieval stuff) or Koreans claiming that they should own southern Manchuria based on equally old semi-myths/semi-history. While I don't think we should be ignorant of these, we shouldn't give these notions too much of a life. Let the old bones stay buried and not give them the power to hurt the present living

Posted by: hk | May 8 2022 19:32 utc | 60

The Russians have invaded Sydney Harbour!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm3uWb44qaA

Posted by: Undercutter | May 8 2022 19:39 utc | 61

If I may, here is a link to a long interview with Jacques Baud (<4h) for a small Swiss channel. It's in French but quite interesting if you have the courage:
https://youtu.be/_8b8AfO1So0

Posted by: Marjorie | May 8 2022 19:40 utc | 62

I hope that nobody is put off b's 'Must Read'
Posted by: bevin | May 8 2022 19:03 utc | 52

Respecting your recommendation, I gave it another try. The article's Tolkeinesque title ("Return of the King") alludes to King USA's return (as I take it), asserting ownership of Europe, especially Germany. I appreciate this description of Germany's humiliation at the ham-fisted hands of US Americans:

To what extent the US have now taken control was forcefully demonstrated when on their trip back to the United States the two secretaries stopped over at the American airbase in Ramstein, Germany, the same that the US used for the war on terror and similar operations. There they met with the defense ministers of no less than forty countries, whom they had ordered to show up to pledge their support for Ukraine and, of course, the United States. Significantly the meeting was not called at NATO headquarters in Brussels, a multinational venue at least formally, but on a military facility which the United States claims to be under its and only its sovereignty, to the muted occasional disagreement of the German government.

Where I drift off is toward the end. Prognostication at that level is not for my palette. The most knowledgeable people, in my experience, are often the most reluctant to pose as forecasters.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 19:40 utc | 63

A most interesting development.

Could these new flying UAF coffins. Be former samples from the infamous Nellis Air Base so called real "Red Flag Squadron". Fresh from the paint shop. Not the fictional version portrayed in "Top Gun".

Then again, the old swing wing SU-24 was designed just like the F-111/TSR2. As a high speed Mach 1 plus attack bomber. Virtually, flying at tree top level with terrain following radar............

Truth is stranger than fiction.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 8 2022 19:52 utc | 64

@43

Bongo Goes to Bitburg*

*This joke works on a number of levels.

Posted by: Hidari | May 8 2022 19:58 utc | 65

Milos #1, i too am curious about the alleged school bombing in Luhansk. came here half expecting b to have already posted making sense of it all. the governor of Luhansk, Gaidai (pro ukrainian of course), is all over it giving statements about 90 likely dead but noticed this snippet in a BBC arabic world article (google translation)

Gaidai said that it was a Russian plane that dropped the bomb on Saturday, but these accusations could not be verified by an independent source, and the Russian side did not issue any response to them.

Posted by: annie | May 8 2022 20:09 utc | 66

"Chaka Khagan | May 8 2022 16:53 utc | 34"

Bono virtue signaling for his cut.

"Edgy" - The Hollywood Reporter
"As always, Bono does not disappoint." - NPR
"Leading the way." - People Ragazine

Bono and Bruce, the biggest bought and paid for mouths of the NWO.

Posted by: osi | May 8 2022 20:11 utc | 67

Here's a thought; how about that school was being used by ukraine troops and russia therefore bombed a legitimate military target?

Posted by: Tony Davis | May 8 2022 20:13 utc | 68

John Gilberts@54
Thanks. That saved me posting the link. Luckily I saw your comment first.
hk@58
Thanks. I can't disagree with you.

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2022 20:22 utc | 69

Bevin @ 52

Completely concur with your summary. Mine was shorter.
Will also say you are a far better writer than the author at NLR. The only reason your gloss might be slightly off is that you just achieved clarity, the NLR guy is thrashing in the weeds.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 8 2022 20:24 utc | 70

Posted by: Undercutter | May 8 2022 19:39 utc | 59

That is funny.

Of course about 60 years ago, during the Cold War, two actual Russian navy boats mistook Broken Bay for Sydney Harbour (not totally silly if you had never navigated those waters, especially at night). Any way they sailed to the only obvious wharf and anchored at the Newport Alms Hotel. Caused quite a stir in Newport to see two Russian ships anchored in Pittwater.

Posted by: watcher | May 8 2022 20:32 utc | 71

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 26

"Probably a good opportunity for the boffins in the tech section of the Russian military back home to reverse engineer this and find its weaknesses."

I think they found that out already when it plopped on the ground like a dog-turd.

Posted by: Mongo | May 8 2022 20:46 utc | 72

bevin @ 55

In late 19th, early 20th centuries Lvov/Lemberg was culturally rich, having a population that was roughly 1/3 Polish, 1/3 German, 1/3 Jewish. It was in the big league of vaudeville together with Warsaw and Berlin. Ukrainians were the Slavic peasants in the countryside. It is a dead city now.

Cultural fables loosely based on something or other historical are powerful and routinely outlast historical knowledge.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 8 2022 20:46 utc | 73

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2022 17:50 utc | 42

"Has Scholz taken complete leave of his senses ? With statements like this today he is clearly hellbent on destroying Germany economically and socially and splitting the whole country asunder."

It has seem clear for some time now that there is a seeming thrust to bring both Europe and America to their knees. Maybe it's coincidence. Maybe it's a devious long-term plot globally coordinated and Covid was the softening up phase with Ukraine + sanctions being Phase Two. Maybe it's the Great Reset business being orchestrated from within and the Eurasians are taking advantage of this initial take-down phase to push a different Reset of their own. Etc.

But I think it's very hard not to conclude that there is a concerted effort to bring many of the main Western nations to the point of economic and political collapse. Certainly nearly every single decision they make fosters that trajectory.

Our instinct when things go wrong at this level is to assume incompetence, but when it is being done willfully most of us cannot either envisage or process it.

And so it goes....

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 21:40 utc | 74

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 21:40 utc | 72

"It has seem clear for some time now that there is a seeming thrust to bring both Europe and America to their knees."

I claimed from the very beginning that the target was not Russia, but the people in the West. Since everybody thought I was mad, I stopped discussing Ukraine.

However, I must admit that I had no idea that the hatred of Russia was so strong. Or rather that so much hatred of Russia could be stirred up in such a short time.

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 21:57 utc | 75

Posted by: Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20

Well, you hit the nail on the head. "I am on record for many years" (Martyanov's line), well, weeks anyway, that I agree Russia should not allow this.

But everyone else here and elsewhere is obsessed with the notion that since (allegedly) Russia can't control western Ukraine with all its rabid nationalists, it should let Poland take it.

We'll see. I remain on record for many more years if that happens that it was a stupid move on the part of Russia.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 8 2022 22:14 utc | 76

Posted by: Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20

Well, you hit the nail on the head. "I am on record for many years" (Martyanov's line), well, weeks anyway, that I agree Russia should not allow this.

But everyone else here and elsewhere is obsessed with the notion that since (allegedly) Russia can't control western Ukraine with all its rabid nationalists, it should let Poland take it.

We'll see. I remain on record for many more years if that happens that it was a stupid move on the part of Russia.

RSH

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 22:15 utc | 77

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 21:57 utc | 73

"However, I must admit that I had no idea that the hatred of Russia was so strong. Or rather that so much hatred of Russia could be stirred up in such a short time."

I believe that hatred so easily and rapidly stirred up is not true hatred but circle jerk emotion similar to the faux outrage expressed all the time in the American culture wars which have dumbed down the last couple of generations going through higher education and most of the rest of the population who watch too much TV.

The impression given by the MSM is deliberately exaggerated as well. They seem to speak for 'we the people' all the time but if you look at their viewership numbers some of them are only reaching a tiny percent of the population. That's why Trump's tweets were such a threat: he was getting past those Gatekeepers and delivering messages of his own, principally that the USG was run by traitors and the media was an Enemy of the People.

So their reach is not as deep and broad as it seems. And so I think the same can be said for seeming hatred of Russia. It's only TV screen deep, let us say.

Human emotions are volatile and can change in both positive and negative ways quite rapidly. Like those famous soldiers in WW I trench warfare who stopped killing each other one day for Christmas and I believe played football or some such. The ordinary people never really hate ordinary people on the other side. Elites whip their population into hatefest mode by triggering fear. But face to face, poor working class hard-working grunts look into the eyes on the other side and see just another poor working class hard-working grunt and feel more kinship with the so-called enemy than they do for their own leadership classes. Happens often.

I am waiting for the Empire of Lies to crumble which will finally help the people in these occupied countries to see their leaders without the media's narrative trappings, their many deceits laid bare. Though unlikely, it's more likely than at any time in generations.

IF that happens, Russia's SMO will have achieved its larger objectives and we in the West will be given a golden once-in-an-era opportunity to dismantle the Empire and build honest countries again.

That said, I suspect we are going to have to collapse first before rebuilding because there are simply too many people ready and willing to buy any BS they are offered.

Time will tell.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 22:17 utc | 78

Poland has many US NATO military bases. If Poland can grab part of Ukraine, it would create a result similar to having Ukraine join NATO. Poland could then put bases in the former Ukraine rump state territory.

So, yes. It's a bad idea and Russia should not cede any part of Ukraine to Poland.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 8 2022 22:23 utc | 79

It´s Victory Day already in Europe. Honor to the heros. Thank You!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Fea3b_K0Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfrnEWoHpY

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 8 2022 22:24 utc | 80

Posted by: Mark Mosby | May 8 2022 17:16 utc | 38

It depends on the objectives and how Russia views the means to achieve them. So no prediction can realistically be made.

We can predict that the Donbass cauldron will be resolved within a couple months at worst, probably sooner. That depends on how many Ukrainian troops were actually in Donbass since the start and how many reinforcements managed to reach them over the last two months. It takes time to grind down 60-100,000 men even if they take 1-2,000 casualties a day. Unless they surrender first, in which case it depends on how many surrender and how fast.

Then Russia needs to take Karkhiv, Nicolaev, and probably Odessa. But that latter might be put off if Russia doesn't want to wreck the city. So all of that could take another couple months. I have no idea how many Ukrainian troops are in those cities.

Unless of course the Ukrainian military surrenders (as opposed to the Ukraine government which under US control will never surrender). Then everything gets sped up. Given the rate of destruction of Ukraine resources, we can expect the entire Ukraine army to be reduced to whatever resources the local units have in reserve which they will run out of in a couple days once they have to fight. So logistics will govern how soon the war ends. Allegedly the Ukrainians are running through a week of supplies the US sent in a day, we can assume they can't last much longer.

So it may not be a matter of whether they want to surrender, once they run out of ammo they will have to. Since no one other than Russia has any idea how much military materiel remains in Ukraine, predictions are next to impossible. So your range of "this summer" to "end of year" could all be possible.

Another point: It has been suggested that Ukraine is keeping the bulk of its forces west of the Dnieper in reserve to defend Kiev and Lviv. The reserves they are sending to Donbass appear to be the least capable and least trained Territorial units. So no one other than the Russians has any idea how many Ukraine forces remain to be destroyed - if "de-militarization" outside of Donbass is Russia's actual goal. Supposedly Ukraine had 250,000 front-line troops and 300,000 reserves. Well, no where near those numbers have been destroyed as far as anyone can tell. Russia claims only 30,000 or so and maybe 10,000 prisoners. Rybar claims 40,000. So where are the rest of them? No one knows the real death toll. So no one can tell how many more have to be taken out. And therefore no one knows how long it will take for Russia to take them out if Russia's objective requires that.

Bottom line: No one knows.

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 22:33 utc | 81

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 17:49 utc | 41
"Elena Zelenskaya"

Seen pictures of her. She's kinda hot. Also, it's "Olena" not "Elena". She used to be a screenwriter - obviously useful in Ukraine today. :-)

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 22:37 utc | 82


Lies, fakes and more fakes on top of fakes... Who is telling the truth??
Is General Trevor Cadieu capture in Azovstal or elsewhere...?

General Trevor Cadieu (Trevor John Cadieu), captured by Russian troops while trying to escape from the cellars of Azovstal....... there is also another Americunt he too may be capture in Azovstal.... so many world leaders paid visits to Ukraine... why, why?

https://americanbuddhist.net/2022/05/03/canadian-general-trevor-cadieu-captured-at-at-azovstal-by-russian-forces/

Posted by: JC | May 8 2022 22:42 utc | 83

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 22:17 utc | 75

I hope you're right, Scorpion. As a European I'm more pessimistic. The reason is that so many irreversible actions have been taken by the incompetent politicians. For example I doubt Russia will ever sell the amount of gas to Europe as it did before the sanctions. Germany's industry is based on cheap energy and will likely fall off the cliff. And if Germany goes down the rest of Europe goes down. And then lawlessness will follow. I simply don't think Europe can save itself. Just look at the French, after two years of lock downs and an economy in shambles, they vote for more of the same.

In fact I think only the US can save Europe. Europe follows the US like a slave, and if enough deplorables+Bernies can take control of the US, Europeans may get inspired to free themselves from their American masters.

There was an interesting comment about the US and Kenya here a couple of days ago. Apparently the situation is pretty much the same most countries around the world.

We're in for a tough ride towards 2030.

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 22:50 utc | 84

JC | May 8 2022 22:42 utc | 80

According to Kadyrov, there are four more big fish there.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 22:52 utc | 85


If you took the average length of our overseas adventures in my
75 year lifetime it produces an answer of quite a ways to go. Of
course we are maybe 10+ years into this one already.

Posted by: Quanah | May 8 2022 22:54 utc | 86

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 22:52 utc | 82

Thanks Peter.. there are more and keep digging..I'm waiting... I read elsewhere General Trevor Cadieu was put in charged with 8 associates of bioweapons lab inside the steel complex..

https://americanbuddhist.net/2022/04/12/a-secret-nato-bioweapon-laboratory-in-the-underground-of-mariupol/

Posted by: JC | May 8 2022 22:57 utc | 87

Posted by: oldhippie | May 8 2022 14:46 utc | 5

Thanks, oldhippie. You voice the same objection I had over on the open not-Ukraine thread. It seemed a bridge too far to have the equation come out in favor of US plus Europe, given all the negative aspects to that alliance. Maybe we can have that debate on both open threads; I have a feeling it is an important one.

Posted by: juliania | May 8 2022 23:01 utc | 88

However, I must admit that I had no idea that the hatred of Russia was so strong. Or rather that so much hatred of Russia could be stirred up in such a short time.

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 21:57 utc | 73

It began when Putin was depicted as Hitler several years ago. The corrupt medias prepared the public opinion for years to the war against Russia. I wrote about it every time I could read an article where Putin was named a dictator. Today here we are.

Now Zelenski is Hitler. A Judeo-nazi.

Posted by: Olivier | May 8 2022 23:05 utc | 89

@oldhippie 5
"The level of indoctrination and wishful thinking is stunning. Summary: The war means Russia is forfeit to China and Europe is more tightly joined to US than ever. The loss of Russia is negligible next to the gain in Europe. Win-win regardless of fate of Ukraine."

Your completely misread the article. Firstly, are you seriously disagreeing that since the war began "Europe is more tightly joined to US than ever"? Because that is exactly what happened. The EU is a defacto satrapy of the United States and doesn't even pretend to have an independent foreign policy anymore.

The next part of your "summary" is utter nonsense. Streeck argues that the US forcing Russia and China together and freezing them out of Western markets is part of a strategy to divide the world into two spheres of influence - one led by the US and the other by China/Russia. Nowhere does he say that Europe gains anything from this. In fact he says exactly the opposite, namely that the war could lead to its annihilation in a nuclear war.

He concludes that-

A proxy war in Ukraine could thus be attractive to a United States seeking to build a global alliance for its imminent battle with China over the next New World Order, monopolar or bipolar in old or new ways, to be fought out in coming years, after the end of the end of history
.

How you interpreted his conclusion as "The loss of Russia is negligible next to the gain in Europe. Win-win regardless of fate of Ukraine" is beyond me. One can quibble with some of his phrasing and a few minor points but your reading of Streeck's piece makes absolutely no sense.

Posted by: Antiwar Dinosaur | May 8 2022 23:16 utc | 90

Thanks, Ian Kummer | May 8 2022 15:21 utc | 16.

This, from your link, supports oldhippie's and my argument against the conclusion of the 'must read' on the not Ukraine thread:

"...European allies dump their weapons in Ukraine, and in turn, receive new weapons from the USA. It’s pure grift. It’s the biggest money-laundering scheme since the end of the Cold War.

For some reason, many people find this comforting. See, we didn’t actually lose in Afghanistan because defense contractors made a lot of money. I think the idea of a capitalist conspiracy is more comforting than the alternative, that our system is broken to the point we deliberately suffer serious military defeats so some white collar executives can make money. We threw thousands of lives and billions of dollars of space-age tech at some mountains for 20+ years and still lost. There is no way to paint that as anything but a serious defeat.

Posted by: juliania | May 8 2022 23:19 utc | 91

Read The New Left Review article recommended by b. Aside from some details of the internal politics of Germany and a history of US relations with Germany and the EU, not much new there we didn't already know. His predictions seem in line with what can be expected, in particular the domination of the US over Europe, which, as I've mentioned often, may well be the sacrifice of NATO and the EU in a war with Russia in order to tie them closer to the US.

One thing I noted is that he points out that all of the NATO war games involving NATO, Ukraine and Russia all end with nuclear war. I agree that is the worst possible outcome and there is nothing in particular one can point to that will obviate that outcome given the current path the US and the EU are on.

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 23:19 utc | 92

Sarmat | May 8 2022 21:57 utc | 73

However, I must admit that I had no idea that the hatred of Russia was so strong. Or rather that so much hatred of Russia could be stirred up in such a short time.

Regarding the intensity of the hate, is this not a result of mass formation? The fear which was created/fed by the various institutions and governments in their scripted response to the appearance of SARS-CoV-2, has now been redirected towards Russia. Professor Desmet also suggested that once mass formation is in operation, the people who are hypnotised/mentally intoxicated like a leader who gives harsher and stricter orders. This would certainly explain the increasing number of sanctions ordered by Ursula von Der Leyen, Chancellor Scholz et al despite the reality that these sanctions are bringing about the destruction of the European economies.

Posted by: cirsium | May 8 2022 23:23 utc | 93

Posted by: juliania | May 8 2022 23:19 utc | 88

You people never seem to grasp that what is objectively a defeat for the US electorate is irrelevant to the profiteers for whom it is a win

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 23:24 utc | 94

Watchdog group finds F-35 sustainment costs could be headed off affordability cliff here

One of the biggest assumptions made about the US military is that even with high levels of corruption and incompetence the sheer amount of US$'s spent on the military will overcome this and produce military dominance. This article helps show the invalidity of such assumptions.

"Specifically, Air Force officials told the GAO that unless sustainment costs decrease, “the service’s only available remaining options to meet the affordability constraints are to reduce the total number of F-35A aircraft they plan to purchase, or to reduce the aircraft’s planned flying hours. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. C.Q. Brown has already signaled that the service may be willing to cut the F-35A program of record and buy a less expensive “fourth-gen plus” fighter to replace some of its oldest F-16s, which were originally slated to be replaced by the F-35. The F-35 program is expected to cost taxpayers a total of $1.7 trillion across its lifecycle, according to the Pentagon’s Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office’s 2020 estimate."

Only one example of the massive wastage of US$'s on military weapons that are at best marginally viable given their ridiculous over-complexity and deep corruption involved in their development. Then add on the very large percentage of money spent of an extensive global network of foreign bases (targets) and 8-10 carrier battle fleets (more targets). Then add on the reality that any wars fought against Russia or China will be fought in their back yard with US men (and women and "other") and supplies having to travel across vast oceans open to extensive interdiction.

US military expenditure was US$778 billion in 2020, China US$252 billion, Russia US$61.7 billion.

https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/2021-06/sipri_yb21_summary_en_v2_0.pdf

The Russian expenditure is closer to US$200 billion in PPP terms given the gross undervaluation of the Ruble even prior to 2022. China's closer to US$400 billion in PPP given its currencies undervaluation. So:

US: US$778 bn
China: US$400bn
Russia: US$200bn

What discount rate do we use for the extensive corruption and over-engineering of the US? What percentage do we take off for the global base costs and the next to useless carrier battle groups (in a peer to peer contest)? How do we account for some nearly useless weapons (the relative uselessness of the vaunted Javelin vs. Russian tanks for example)? Once the truth of the Ukrainian campaign cannot be ignored, the US defence contractors may find themselves with severe marketing difficulties outside of the US vassals.

Very quickly the "US preponderance" becomes evident as a paper tiger, unfortunately none of the US political elites, or even the careerist military elites seem to be fully cognizant of the level of delusion that they operate under. Or perhaps some do have such insights, hence the usage of proxy wars rather than direct ones. The possible usage of Poland as a non-NATO intervention into Western Ukraine will stretch this, as an unreadiness of the US to back up the Poles as they get slaughtered in Western Ukraine may be a bridge too far for US leadership legitimacy in the West.

Posted by: Roger | May 8 2022 23:33 utc | 95

Can anyone link articles where Boris Johnson “recommends” Zelensky to abandon peace talks, stating “we won’t support you” or something to that effect?

Posted by: Mat Palmeri | May 8 2022 23:34 utc | 96

But I think it's very hard not to conclude that there is a concerted effort to bring many of the main Western nations to the point of economic and political collapse. Certainly nearly every single decision they make fosters that trajectory.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 21:40 utc | 72

That's certainly one possibility. I do hold out for hubris, however. The elites in the USA may be short on wisdom but they are long on arrogance. They seem to believe themselves impervious to a constantly evolving virus about whose long-term damage to us we are just beginning to learn. They're sure their concierge doctors and Paxlovid and plastic surgeons will save them no matter what. Just like Trump at Walter Reed.

They laugh at Nature. Why wouldn't they think themselves invincible against human armies?

Posted by: Henry Moon Pie | May 8 2022 23:38 utc | 97

Forcing Russian and China together is disastrous. The US foreign policy establishment spent most of its post WWII efforts not only making sure that wouldn’t happen but actively working on the problem. In the early 50’s there was a movement to open up to China, give it Taiwan and split the Soviets and the Chinese. But the Korean War got in the way (some say Stalin cooked it up) which kept China and the US apart until Nixon. And the whole point of Nixon going to China was to try again.

In the medium term europe would not be able to resist a Sino-Russian Eurasia, the US can’t support it at anything like its current standard of living.

Posted by: Lex | May 8 2022 23:42 utc | 98

@ Chaka Khagan | May 8 2022 22:23 utc | 76 Re:

"Russia should not cede any part of Ukraine to Poland."

Given that Russia does not own Galicia and hasn't made any claims that it does, I fail to see how it could possibly cede it to Poland. If the Poles do move into Galicia they will make themselves legitimate targets and I would expect the RF to take full advantage of that. The Poles have been one of the worst offenders in the anti-Russian stakes and fully deserve a bloody nose.

Posted by: MarkU | May 8 2022 23:43 utc | 99

@Posted by: Mat Palmeri | May 8 2022 23:34 utc | 93

UK PM Johnson Says Ukraine Peace Talks Are Doomed Because of 'Crocodile' Putin

A son of the British elite would never be so vulgar and direct old boy, rather denigrate your opposition with the very traits that you yourself display. Putin is a "Crocodile" so no point in negotiating!

Posted by: Roger | May 8 2022 23:46 utc | 100

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