Milos | May 8 2022 14:14 utc | 1
it was being used as a barracks apparently.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 14:40 utc | 4

So what (if anything) will take place at the May 9th Victory Day event in Moscow? Will Putin display NATO captures from Ukraine? Will he just have a parade? Will NATO or someone try to attack the viewing stand?
My guess is the parade will be held and nothing really specific to Ukraine will be displayed, Putin will have the event for the sake of the national memory of the war, dignified, and carry on, but I won’t be surprised if we learn in the next few hours that Russia does have a few NATO staff from Avostol in their hands. It seems all the civilians are now gone, leaving only wounded and fit soldiers, and while some of the wounded may be treated I expect the soldiers to be captured or starved out. It does seem to me that, as some other commenters have pointed out, the Russians may not be as super efficient as some claim, this attack seems to have bogged down, and every day before Zelinskey must surrender is another day fro NATO to strengthen the backfill of weapons and Western resolve.
The latest missile strike and civilian death attack is in the news, and while some think this is yet another false flag there is always the chance of a massive error from Russia as well, the fog of war, again a reason in favor of this thing being wrapped up sooner rather than later, especially as it now seems the West wants this to go on forever.
There are just too many zealots thinking a few tactical nukes might be the answer…..

Posted by: Boomheist | May 8 2022 14:49 utc | 6

All civilians now evacuated from the Azovstal steel plant, a 1000 soldiers (no specifics on nationality) also emerged holding a white flag, they have be taken into custody, its thought that there’s still personnel hiding under the plant.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:51 utc | 8

At Snake Island.
“The following have been shot down in the air: 1 Ukrainian Su-24 bomber, 1 Su-27 fighter jet, 3 Mi-8 helicopters with paratroopers and 2 Bayraktar-TB2 UAV. The Ukrainian amphibious assault boat Stanislav has also been destroyed.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 14:52 utc | 10

james | May 8 2022 14:53 utc | 11
I can see US allowing Poland to grab some of western Ukraine With the view of using it as a save haven and breeding ground for nazi’s. US knows it has lost eastern Ukraine for good now so apart from Poles getting slaughtered if Russia is unhappy about it, US has got nothing to lose

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 15:02 utc | 12

Boomheist, found the concern troll.

Posted by: Pitor | May 8 2022 15:15 utc | 14

Biden intended for Ukraine to be the new Afghanistan for Russia, but it backfired. Ukraine is America’s (second) Afghanistan.
https://readingjunkie.com/2022/05/07/ukraine-is-the-new-afghanistan-for-us/

Posted by: Ian Kummer | May 8 2022 15:21 utc | 16

Let’s recap
NYT | U.S. Exposes What It Says Is Russian Effort to Fabricate Pretext for Invasion, 3 Feb
NBC News | In a break with the past, U.S. is using intel to fight an info war with Russia, even when the intel isn’t rock solid, 6 Apr
Most ignorant, litigious nation on planet reports a NEW! low rent consensus among advance economies
8 May 2022 tabloid USA headline
Your keys to secrets of PUTIN’s WAR for just $4.99/mo.!

Posted by: sln | May 8 2022 15:29 utc | 18

@ Peter AU1
Which ever way you cut it, Poland moving into western Ukraine would be further NATO expansion eastwards with or without any mandate, as Poland is a NATO member.
Putin is on record numerous times stating no more eastward expansion by NATO.
I cannot see how Russia could allow this to happen without the world seeing it as a NATO victory. Apart from the obvious re-arming and re-training of Ukraine and other allied & mercenary soldiers with the billion$ of new arms being sent – at some point – there would also be more US missile systems put there which could hit Moscow in mere minutes.
Should Washington encourage Poland to make this move all bets are off and this special military operation will quickly escalate into a wider conflict possibly leading to WW3 with all that that entails.
NATO have been warned on numerous occassions not to directly interfere.
Putin is also on record on numerous occassions stating quite clearly that the next war will not be fought on Russian territory.
Let us all hope that the Poles are not as stupid as those in London and Washington – but signs are not good.

Posted by: Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20

@ Peter AU1 | May 8 2022 15:02 utc | 12
i guess it comes down to @ Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20 question at the end… are they really that stupid? i can’t see it working out.. usa-nato will have to alter all the propaganda that have cultivated for the past number of years too, to explain the rationale for that…
unrelated quote from telegram –
Slavyangrad – Gleb Bazov
@rybar reports: 🇺🇦 Nationalists from the Azov Regiment, locked at the Mariupol Azovstal plant, today held a press conference for the Ukrainian media. The deputy commander of Azov, Svyatoslav Palamar (Kalina), accused the Ukrainian authorities of “cynicism” and disruption of preparations for war (though without naming specific names).
The day before, Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Irina Vereshchuk already stated that all civilians had been evacuated from Azovstal. However, the Azov people said they were not sure that they had evacuated everyone. Like, we need to sort out the rubble.
In fact, Zelensky and his team are now trying to squeeze the maximum “overcome” out of the evacuation – they say, yes, “the heroic defenders of Azovstal died, but we evacuated at least all the civilians.” And Kalina, with its media activity, breaks this picture for him. Resentment is heard in his words: they were never saved, and only death awaits ahead. I wonder how soon in their appeals “Kalina” will begin to name the specific culprits in the death of “Azov”?
For the Kiev authorities, of course, it is more profitable now that “due to the fault of the Russian occupiers”, Kalina and the company suddenly lost the Internet, and they themselves were buried right under Azovstal.
And that can be inconvenient. A symbol of heroic resistance can turn against its own creators.

Posted by: james | May 8 2022 15:59 utc | 22

Undercutter (17).
It probably doesn’t add any gravitas to the report, but the Donbas Insider has the white flag story as well.
https://www.donbass-insider.com/fr/2022/05/08/marioupol-les-derniers-civils-ont-evacue-azovstal/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:12 utc | 24

Probably a good opportunity for the boffins in the tech section of the Russian military back home to reverse engineer this and find its weaknesses.
“Russian forces taking part in the ongoing special military operation in Ukraine has captured a nearly intact British-made Brimstone precision-guided missile.
On May 8, Russian sources shared photos of the missile, which was allegedly found by Russian forces near a front in Zaporizhzhia oblast. The missile reportedly failed seconds after being launched by Kiev forces. The missile sustained very little damage.”
https://southfront.org/russian-forces-captured-british-made-brimstone-missile-in-ukraines-zaporizhzhia-photos/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 26

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 25
It’s the West’s dominant narrative and crap armaments versus Russia’s boring narrative and operational armaments. In a clear-cut conflict of narrative versus armaments, it seems easy to foresee brittle narrative snapping under kinetic strain.”
National militaries often have to get rid of old ordinance before their governments authorize ordering and purchase of new. That they are offloading all their old crap indicates to me that they are about to ramp up with new stuff, albeit that probably won’t be ready for a year or so. In which case this might indicate they are planning to keep the conflict going that long at least.
Whether or not this fits with Russian plans/desires remains to be seen. They are only using a small percentage of their force. They are going through a heckuva lot of ordinance but depending on their setup maybe this is easily and rapidly replaced. Because from Mother Russia’s point of view, the longer things continue just as they are, the more likely Europe-US goes into nasty depression and the sooner that happens the better from their pov.
Russia’s bet is that the West will not be able to front a determined all-out war in a year or so due to widespread internal political and economic turmoil. With supply chains freezing up, energy flows severely limited, world wide fertilizer shortage not to mention drought in US, the West couldn’t be worse set up. It’s almost like it’s been organized somehow by hoonohoos!

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 16:27 utc | 28

They are going through a heckuva lot of ordinance but depending on their setup maybe this is easily and rapidly replaced…
Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 16:27 utc | 28
Western arms shipped to Ukraine might be crap which doesn’t work most of the time, but it’s still more expensive, I assume, than the ordinance Russia uses to blow it all up, the moment shipments cross the Polish border. Temporarily, everyone’s happy — war-profiteers enjoy the expanding opportunity and Russia enjoys draining the West (it’s just us hapless, insignificant proles left holding the pooper-scooper). But at some point the well runs dry. My bet is the West runs out of systems for Russia to play target-practice upon, a long time before Russia runs out of ordinance.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 8 2022 16:40 utc | 30

@25
According to Cockburn it came from visiting Guatemalan refugee camps in Mexico. ” I can’t imagine writing it under any other conditions “.

Posted by: mi | May 8 2022 16:48 utc | 32

@31
Bobo and The Itch bathed in magenta light performing two tunes for very few invited guests.
Purely a publicity stunt, CIA’s Bobo can always be found on the wrong side of every issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWIWQgJY1VQ

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | May 8 2022 16:53 utc | 34

Azov will keep in doubt whether there are any remaining civilians because it’s likely they killed some civilians and IF those bodies are found the deaths will be blamed on the RF. Most likely all will be turned to rubble, in which case the deaths will be blamed on the RF.

Posted by: Seer | May 8 2022 17:08 utc | 36

On the question of how long the special operation (or war) in Ukraine is likely to last, two extreme answers are:
1. It’s already over. “The Ukrainian Army Has Been Defeated.” as of 21 March 2022 (7 weeks ago) according to Larry Johnson, as quoted by Mike Whitney in his article at the Unz Review.
and,
2. The war will continue for months or — hopefully — years, according to the wishes of the US military.
Can anyone provide a more reasonable, and reasoned, answer? This month? This summer? By the end of this year?

Posted by: Mark Mosby | May 8 2022 17:16 utc | 38

Snake Island sitrep from Southfront:
https://southfront.org/battle-for-snake-island-russian-forces-left-positions-but-prevent-ukrainian-from-gaining-foothold-videos/

Posted by: vector | May 8 2022 17:35 utc | 40

One wonders why Biden sent his wife to Ukraine, I doubt it was to talk about hair styles and haute couture.
“US first lady Jill Biden has paid an unannounced visit to Ukraine as part of her trip to Europe, according to a pool report.
Her motorcade crossed the Slovak-Ukrainian border at 14:41 Slovak time (15:41 Moscow time) on Sunday. During her slightly less than two-hour stay in Ukraine, she met with Ukraine’s first lady Elena Zelenskaya, who has not been seen in public since the beginning of Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine on February 24.
The two first ladies had a closed-door meeting, which lasted for about one hour. After that, Jill Biden returned back to Slovakia.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 17:49 utc | 42

Don’t those two complete bellends, Bozo and The Blunt, have any insight as to what self-important arseholes they appear? Bozo, probably too little to get into an army, pontificates and takes sides as if the chosen side would want their approval and sanction.
With regards to The Edge, is adopting a noun as a name supposed to mean something? The Edge? More like the tipping point into complete mediocrity. They should both fuck off back to Ireland and busk there. It’s embarrassing!

Posted by: Vragtes | May 8 2022 17:57 utc | 44

Russian Forces have been busy during the night.
“Russian aviation destroyed a communications post at the Chervonoglinskoye airstrip and a Project 1241 corvette near Odessa via precision air-based missiles, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov announced Sunday.
“During the night, Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed a mechanize brigade command post near Pyatikhatka, Kharkov Region, and a communications post at the Chervonoglinskoye airstrip near the settlement of Artsyz,” Konashenkov said.
“A Ukrainian Navy Project 1241 corvette was destroyed near Odessa,” he added.
According to Konashenkov, during the night, Russian air defense downed two more Ukrainian Su-24 bombers and one Mi-24 helicopter.
He added that one Bayraktar TB-2 drone was downed near Odessa.
Konashenkov added that Russian aviation hit 130 Ukrainian military objects, including two artillery batteries at firing positions and up to 420 nationalists. “Russian aviation hit 130 Ukrainian military objects, including three command posts, 123 personnel and combat vehicle concentration areas, two artillery batteries at firing positions and two missile artillery ammunitions depots near Bakhmut and Krasnopolye,” Konashenkov said.
He underscored that the airstrikes eliminated up to 420 nationalists and 55 combat vehicles.
According to Major General, Russian missile forces and artillery eliminated two Ukrainian S-300 missile air defense systems in the Kharkov Region. “Russian missile forces and artillery eliminated 56 command posts, 32 artillery firing positions, 415 personnel and combat vehicles concentration areas, as well as two S-300 missile air defense systems near the settlement of Korotych, Kharkov Region,” he said.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:05 utc | 46

SNAKE ISLAND: team Russia gets pounded by Ukrainian drones and Jets. All on video. Russian MoD makes… unsubstantiated claims. Are Russia’s military and state media trying to outdo each other with stupidity and incompetence?
This has to be the weirdest war ever fought. Russia says it wants to demilitarise Ukraine, but somehow after more than 2 months in, Ukraine still operates its air force jets and helicopters, propeller driven drones commit mass murder, enough air defences still operate to prevent Russian jets flying over most of the country and C4 centres in Kiev/Lviv haven’t even been touched. Are they waiting for another ship to sink? If actionable threats were a bad deterrent, empty ones are even worse.
Looking more like a Special Needs Operation if you ask me. Who would ever want to join the Russian armed forces after seeing this??? so much for claims the S 400 being able to cover the entire Back Sea… can’t even take down drones and old jets in time to protect their own men on the only friggin Island in it!
https://southfront.org/battle-for-snake-island-russian-forces-left-positions-but-prevent-ukrainian-from-gaining-foothold-videos/

Posted by: Et Tu | May 8 2022 18:35 utc | 48

Scholz just mentioned how “77 years ago….Europe…..” as if Germany was not involved and “Europe” collectively ended the war………no mention of USSR or Germany or UK or USA………
That German “amnesia” and “selective memory” was in full evidence – it was the most mendacious evasive utterance from any German Chancellor – both Helmut Kohl and Helmut Schmidt would be ashamed and no doubt Gerd Schroeder……….
Scholz is a provincial politician unfit for national office like so many in the Bundestag – he will make Germany a minor player like Italy on the world stage. Evasion and failure to acknowledge German responsibility for Minsk Agreements and failure to uphold any agreements since 1990

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2022 18:50 utc | 50

Paul Greenwood (48).
Thank you for the clarification.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 18:56 utc | 52

oldhippie@5
I may be mistaken but I take the NLR article to be an analysis of the strategy of the mad morons- the Tiger Team (and I bet they have tee shirts if not pyjamas)- which does the thinking for Joe, Pure Fucking Evil, Biden.
Their first priority is to keep things humming for the Death Merchants, like Lockheed. And so they want war and not just the odd skirmish. They want wall to wall war until we are all dead and people like them can pass down their portfolios to the kids they love so much. And their kids.
As Philip Roddis reports today:
“..Antiwar libertarian hero Scott Horton has a viral tweet going around which reads simply, “Biden’s refusal to attempt to negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine is the greatest scandal in American political history…” http://steelcityscribblings.uk/wp/
What the NLR writer is telling us is that the US has decided on a long term bloc strategy which will have two key features, apart from guaranteeing a permanent arms economy to hobble Eurasia’s plan to escape poverty by investing in peaceful pursuits and social infrastructure.
The first is the ‘weakening’ of Russia. They are confident of being able to succeed here because- so the neo-con triumphalists tell them- that is what the US did in the Cold War. It weakened the Soviet Union by maintaining constant pressure, forcing it to devote half its capital to weapon development and impoverishing the masses. Thus being unable to provide them with the Blue Jeans and Rock and Roll that was all over Radio Free Europe. We all know the myth. For people like the egregious Navalny and Bill Kristol it was a reality too.
The second is to tie up Europe- for which the Tiger Team, Biden and their ilk have the sort of contempt a pimp does for a homeless teenage girl asking for change. Put an end to any European talk of independence, a third force in the world and flirtations with BRI, and raise it up to equality with Puerto Rico or Guam. The main object is to make sure that Germany, France, Italy and the lesser states don’t start thinking that they are real powers, the way they used to be in Napoleon and Wilhelm II’s, because they aren’t they are Uncle Sam’s whores and they could do a lot worse ‘Here’s a buck sweetie. Or so thinks Sam.
With Europe taken care of, and look how efficiently the US managed to get them all dancing like a Chorus Line to the Stand with Ukraine tune, Cold War II can get under weigh again, with Europe a totally secure satellite. If George Orwell had known more about missiles he would have written not of ‘Airstrip One’ but “Missile Launch platform Britannia.”
Here’s something: Wolfgang Streek has written several articles in the NLR, recently, chronicling the EU’s takeover of the prerogatives of the national member governments. I have in fact recommended them, firstly as justification for the UK’s getting out of an institution that is rapidly making the old German and Hapsburg Empires look like Peoples Democracies. The EU is a judicial/banker/bureaucrat dictatorship.
And secondly because the new EU, sans sovereign members and separated from democratic influence is designed to do what the US tells it to do. It is the government that goes with a military occupation. With NATO as the Washington Raj’s Indian Army.
Personally I think Comrade Streek is pretty well spot on. So I hope that nobody is put off b’s ‘Must Read’ by our old friend and hippie’s take. He may be right, but check it out.
Just to put Bono into perspective. The big news is that Sinn Fein- after a century of trying-has won power in Northern Ireland. Add that to the Republic’s two stars in Europe Daly and Wallace, and change might be coming. After all before Petrograd 1917 there was Dublin 1916.
Daly and Wallace won’t be serenading Nazis in Kiev any time soon- there is something about the treatment the Donbas has got since 2014 that Irish people can empathise with.
This should wash the taste of Bono out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFAzJ7caJho

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2022 19:03 utc | 54

Not a bad synopsis by WSWS on Canada’s outsized role in the US-NATO war on Russia. Trudeau and his Banderite deputy pm, Chrystia Freeland are in Kiev today.
May Day 2022: Canadian Imperialism, Hitler’s Ukrainian Accomplices, and the NATO-Russia War
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/03/mdr5-m03.html
“Canadian imperialism is playing an especially provocative and belligerent role in the Ukraine war, as it did in the war’s propagation and instigation…”

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 8 2022 19:08 utc | 56

Wtf: Bandera and Chiang Kai-shek:
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2016/06/18/the-2016-super-bloc-vote-part-ii-unleashing-david-vs-the-russian-goliath/
By an interesting journalist : https://nitter.eu/gheliason
The Plot thickens…

Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2022 19:26 utc | 58

@bevin(55),
Thanks. This is the perspective where I’m coming from though: After WW1, Lithuanians were very insistent about Vilnius/Wilno/etc being their rightful capital based on centuries of history, except, by early 20th century, the region was a mixture of Poles/Jews/Belarusians depending on which parts you looked, and then again “some things” happened over next few decades and the city and the region are Lithuanian again. What I’m getting at is that, over history, for all manner of reasons, things change. I don’t think anyone should invoke history of centuries in the past to override the present. I’ve had strange “debates” with Poles claiming that Breslau/Wroclaw is really an old Polish city (based on really old medieval stuff) or Koreans claiming that they should own southern Manchuria based on equally old semi-myths/semi-history. While I don’t think we should be ignorant of these, we shouldn’t give these notions too much of a life. Let the old bones stay buried and not give them the power to hurt the present living

Posted by: hk | May 8 2022 19:32 utc | 60

If I may, here is a link to a long interview with Jacques Baud (<4h) for a small Swiss channel. It's in French but quite interesting if you have the courage:
https://youtu.be/_8b8AfO1So0

Posted by: Marjorie | May 8 2022 19:40 utc | 62

A most interesting development.
Could these new flying UAF coffins. Be former samples from the infamous Nellis Air Base so called real “Red Flag Squadron”. Fresh from the paint shop. Not the fictional version portrayed in “Top Gun”.
Then again, the old swing wing SU-24 was designed just like the F-111/TSR2. As a high speed Mach 1 plus attack bomber. Virtually, flying at tree top level with terrain following radar…………
Truth is stranger than fiction.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | May 8 2022 19:52 utc | 64

Milos #1, i too am curious about the alleged school bombing in Luhansk. came here half expecting b to have already posted making sense of it all. the governor of Luhansk, Gaidai (pro ukrainian of course), is all over it giving statements about 90 likely dead but noticed this snippet in a BBC arabic world article (google translation)

Gaidai said that it was a Russian plane that dropped the bomb on Saturday, but these accusations could not be verified by an independent source, and the Russian side did not issue any response to them.

Posted by: annie | May 8 2022 20:09 utc | 66

Here’s a thought; how about that school was being used by ukraine troops and russia therefore bombed a legitimate military target?

Posted by: Tony Davis | May 8 2022 20:13 utc | 68

Bevin @ 52
Completely concur with your summary. Mine was shorter.
Will also say you are a far better writer than the author at NLR. The only reason your gloss might be slightly off is that you just achieved clarity, the NLR guy is thrashing in the weeds.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 8 2022 20:24 utc | 70

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 16:17 utc | 26
“Probably a good opportunity for the boffins in the tech section of the Russian military back home to reverse engineer this and find its weaknesses.”
I think they found that out already when it plopped on the ground like a dog-turd.

Posted by: Mongo | May 8 2022 20:46 utc | 72

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 8 2022 17:50 utc | 42
“Has Scholz taken complete leave of his senses ? With statements like this today he is clearly hellbent on destroying Germany economically and socially and splitting the whole country asunder.”
It has seem clear for some time now that there is a seeming thrust to bring both Europe and America to their knees. Maybe it’s coincidence. Maybe it’s a devious long-term plot globally coordinated and Covid was the softening up phase with Ukraine + sanctions being Phase Two. Maybe it’s the Great Reset business being orchestrated from within and the Eurasians are taking advantage of this initial take-down phase to push a different Reset of their own. Etc.
But I think it’s very hard not to conclude that there is a concerted effort to bring many of the main Western nations to the point of economic and political collapse. Certainly nearly every single decision they make fosters that trajectory.
Our instinct when things go wrong at this level is to assume incompetence, but when it is being done willfully most of us cannot either envisage or process it.
And so it goes….

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 21:40 utc | 74

Posted by: Thatami | May 8 2022 15:33 utc | 20
Well, you hit the nail on the head. “I am on record for many years” (Martyanov’s line), well, weeks anyway, that I agree Russia should not allow this.
But everyone else here and elsewhere is obsessed with the notion that since (allegedly) Russia can’t control western Ukraine with all its rabid nationalists, it should let Poland take it.
We’ll see. I remain on record for many more years if that happens that it was a stupid move on the part of Russia.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 8 2022 22:14 utc | 76

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 21:57 utc | 73
“However, I must admit that I had no idea that the hatred of Russia was so strong. Or rather that so much hatred of Russia could be stirred up in such a short time.”
I believe that hatred so easily and rapidly stirred up is not true hatred but circle jerk emotion similar to the faux outrage expressed all the time in the American culture wars which have dumbed down the last couple of generations going through higher education and most of the rest of the population who watch too much TV.
The impression given by the MSM is deliberately exaggerated as well. They seem to speak for ‘we the people’ all the time but if you look at their viewership numbers some of them are only reaching a tiny percent of the population. That’s why Trump’s tweets were such a threat: he was getting past those Gatekeepers and delivering messages of his own, principally that the USG was run by traitors and the media was an Enemy of the People.
So their reach is not as deep and broad as it seems. And so I think the same can be said for seeming hatred of Russia. It’s only TV screen deep, let us say.
Human emotions are volatile and can change in both positive and negative ways quite rapidly. Like those famous soldiers in WW I trench warfare who stopped killing each other one day for Christmas and I believe played football or some such. The ordinary people never really hate ordinary people on the other side. Elites whip their population into hatefest mode by triggering fear. But face to face, poor working class hard-working grunts look into the eyes on the other side and see just another poor working class hard-working grunt and feel more kinship with the so-called enemy than they do for their own leadership classes. Happens often.
I am waiting for the Empire of Lies to crumble which will finally help the people in these occupied countries to see their leaders without the media’s narrative trappings, their many deceits laid bare. Though unlikely, it’s more likely than at any time in generations.
IF that happens, Russia’s SMO will have achieved its larger objectives and we in the West will be given a golden once-in-an-era opportunity to dismantle the Empire and build honest countries again.
That said, I suspect we are going to have to collapse first before rebuilding because there are simply too many people ready and willing to buy any BS they are offered.
Time will tell.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 22:17 utc | 78

It´s Victory Day already in Europe. Honor to the heros. Thank You!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Fea3b_K0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfrnEWoHpY

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 8 2022 22:24 utc | 80

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2022 17:49 utc | 41
“Elena Zelenskaya”
Seen pictures of her. She’s kinda hot. Also, it’s “Olena” not “Elena”. She used to be a screenwriter – obviously useful in Ukraine today. 🙂

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 22:37 utc | 82

Posted by: Scorpion | May 8 2022 22:17 utc | 75
I hope you’re right, Scorpion. As a European I’m more pessimistic. The reason is that so many irreversible actions have been taken by the incompetent politicians. For example I doubt Russia will ever sell the amount of gas to Europe as it did before the sanctions. Germany’s industry is based on cheap energy and will likely fall off the cliff. And if Germany goes down the rest of Europe goes down. And then lawlessness will follow. I simply don’t think Europe can save itself. Just look at the French, after two years of lock downs and an economy in shambles, they vote for more of the same.
In fact I think only the US can save Europe. Europe follows the US like a slave, and if enough deplorables+Bernies can take control of the US, Europeans may get inspired to free themselves from their American masters.
There was an interesting comment about the US and Kenya here a couple of days ago. Apparently the situation is pretty much the same most countries around the world.
We’re in for a tough ride towards 2030.

Posted by: Sarmat | May 8 2022 22:50 utc | 84

If you took the average length of our overseas adventures in my
75 year lifetime it produces an answer of quite a ways to go. Of
course we are maybe 10+ years into this one already.

Posted by: Quanah | May 8 2022 22:54 utc | 86

Posted by: oldhippie | May 8 2022 14:46 utc | 5
Thanks, oldhippie. You voice the same objection I had over on the open not-Ukraine thread. It seemed a bridge too far to have the equation come out in favor of US plus Europe, given all the negative aspects to that alliance. Maybe we can have that debate on both open threads; I have a feeling it is an important one.

Posted by: juliania | May 8 2022 23:01 utc | 88

@oldhippie 5
“The level of indoctrination and wishful thinking is stunning. Summary: The war means Russia is forfeit to China and Europe is more tightly joined to US than ever. The loss of Russia is negligible next to the gain in Europe. Win-win regardless of fate of Ukraine.”
Your completely misread the article. Firstly, are you seriously disagreeing that since the war began “Europe is more tightly joined to US than ever”? Because that is exactly what happened. The EU is a defacto satrapy of the United States and doesn’t even pretend to have an independent foreign policy anymore.
The next part of your “summary” is utter nonsense. Streeck argues that the US forcing Russia and China together and freezing them out of Western markets is part of a strategy to divide the world into two spheres of influence – one led by the US and the other by China/Russia. Nowhere does he say that Europe gains anything from this. In fact he says exactly the opposite, namely that the war could lead to its annihilation in a nuclear war.
He concludes that-

A proxy war in Ukraine could thus be attractive to a United States seeking to build a global alliance for its imminent battle with China over the next New World Order, monopolar or bipolar in old or new ways, to be fought out in coming years, after the end of the end of history

.
How you interpreted his conclusion as “The loss of Russia is negligible next to the gain in Europe. Win-win regardless of fate of Ukraine” is beyond me. One can quibble with some of his phrasing and a few minor points but your reading of Streeck’s piece makes absolutely no sense.

Posted by: Antiwar Dinosaur | May 8 2022 23:16 utc | 90

Read The New Left Review article recommended by b. Aside from some details of the internal politics of Germany and a history of US relations with Germany and the EU, not much new there we didn’t already know. His predictions seem in line with what can be expected, in particular the domination of the US over Europe, which, as I’ve mentioned often, may well be the sacrifice of NATO and the EU in a war with Russia in order to tie them closer to the US.
One thing I noted is that he points out that all of the NATO war games involving NATO, Ukraine and Russia all end with nuclear war. I agree that is the worst possible outcome and there is nothing in particular one can point to that will obviate that outcome given the current path the US and the EU are on.

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 23:19 utc | 92

Posted by: juliania | May 8 2022 23:19 utc | 88
You people never seem to grasp that what is objectively a defeat for the US electorate is irrelevant to the profiteers for whom it is a win

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | May 8 2022 23:24 utc | 94

Can anyone link articles where Boris Johnson “recommends” Zelensky to abandon peace talks, stating “we won’t support you” or something to that effect?

Posted by: Mat Palmeri | May 8 2022 23:34 utc | 96

Forcing Russian and China together is disastrous. The US foreign policy establishment spent most of its post WWII efforts not only making sure that wouldn’t happen but actively working on the problem. In the early 50’s there was a movement to open up to China, give it Taiwan and split the Soviets and the Chinese. But the Korean War got in the way (some say Stalin cooked it up) which kept China and the US apart until Nixon. And the whole point of Nixon going to China was to try again.
In the medium term europe would not be able to resist a Sino-Russian Eurasia, the US can’t support it at anything like its current standard of living.

Posted by: Lex | May 8 2022 23:42 utc | 98

@Posted by: Mat Palmeri | May 8 2022 23:34 utc | 93
UK PM Johnson Says Ukraine Peace Talks Are Doomed Because of ‘Crocodile’ Putin
A son of the British elite would never be so vulgar and direct old boy, rather denigrate your opposition with the very traits that you yourself display. Putin is a “Crocodile” so no point in negotiating!

Posted by: Roger | May 8 2022 23:46 utc | 100