Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
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May 1, 2022
Ukraine Open Thread 2022-58
Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict …
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The “Powers That (should not) Be” have been greenscreening events for thirty years. Posted by: Bemildred | May 1 2022 19:45 utc | 101 @ Obamavirus Posted by: malenkov | May 1 2022 19:46 utc | 102 Hausmeister, Posted by: Sveno | May 1 2022 19:46 utc | 103 Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 1 2022 15:17 utc | 24 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 19:47 utc | 104 Pat Buchanan raises a crisp point I have not heard elsewhere:
This “just war” concept is so 20th-century — “paleoconservative” perhaps? Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 1 2022 19:47 utc | 105
I am not a fan, but do not view Trump as a pariah either. With respect to the Ukraine conflict, it is worth noting that nothing much happened in Eastern Ukraine during his 4-year tenure. Not so coincidentally, that was the time that Nuland and the rest of the Kagan clan (Straussians as per Thierry Meyssan) were no longer in positions of influence. Posted by: Opport Knocks | May 1 2022 19:49 utc | 106 Today is Workers’ Day…Let’s keep it alive! Posted by: Vintage Red | May 1 2022 19:50 utc | 107 Three years ago, just around 4 a.m. on May 2nd, a rare angel on earth, my mother, quietly passed into the arms of eternity. Allow me to share this exquisite video to honor her memory.: Posted by: Circe | May 1 2022 19:52 utc | 108 …the heart of this people is grown fat Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 1 2022 19:57 utc | 109 @Posted by: AParadiseLost | May 1 2022 18:13 utc | 67 Posted by: Don Bacon | May 1 2022 16:32 utc | 44 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:03 utc | 111 Posted by: Vragtes | May 1 2022 14:05 utc | 10 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:07 utc | 112 More civilians released from Azovstal today. But what is in the catacombs? @Arvy 88 Posted by: Vragtes | May 1 2022 20:09 utc | 114 …the actual goal of the US neocons – sacrificing NATO in order to bleed Russia, as I’ve suggested before. Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 20:10 utc | 115 https://www.president.gov.ua/en/photos/zustrich-prezidenta-ukrayini-zi-spikerom-palati-predstavniki-4617 Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 1 2022 20:12 utc | 116 fyi Posted by: michaelj72 | May 1 2022 20:13 utc | 117 Posted by: Eric Newhill | May 1 2022 17:43 utc | 59 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:14 utc | 118 Malenkov@98 Posted by: Obamavirus | May 1 2022 20:18 utc | 119 Posted by: karlof1 | May 1 2022 18:55 utc | 77 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:20 utc | 120 Posted by: Eric Newhill | May 1 2022 17:43 utc | 59 Posted by: Boomhauer | May 1 2022 20:26 utc | 121 Poland is playing with fire Posted by: Andrew B. | May 1 2022 20:29 utc | 122 Vragtes @10: “I am saddened by their references to dead Ukrainian soldiers as “pigs”.” Posted by: Jimmy | May 1 2022 20:29 utc | 123 Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 20:10 utc | 111 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:32 utc | 124 Obamavirus | May 1 2022 20:18 utc | 115 Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 1 2022 20:34 utc | 125 To continue the discussion re: “Nazi Aggression” in WW2 and the world order that arrived at the end of the war
I don’t believe that it is, in fact, a moot point. I think it matters very greatly in today’s world how we view the Nazis of WW2 and their questionable actions and supposed aggression.
Although I believe this quote is post-war, he more or less said the same thing about Europe before the war. But his summmation was the same: “Europe in the pincers.” Posted by: NemesisCalling | May 1 2022 20:34 utc | 126 Obamavirus | May 1 2022 20:18 utc | 115 Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 1 2022 20:40 utc | 127 … The rebuilding can only happen from one of two parties: the US or China. The US assumes it will be the US. Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 20:45 utc | 128 Rjb@121 Posted by: Obamavirus | May 1 2022 20:50 utc | 129 Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 20:45 utc | 124 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:51 utc | 130 Anyone that believes the “election” of a certain politician is the key to change in the empire’s behavior, suffers from severe naiveite. Only a massive change in the public’s mind can do that, and unfortunately, the empire’s MSM is owned by the ones who won’t let things change, because it’ll reduce their income. Posted by: vetinLA | May 1 2022 20:52 utc | 131 This “just war” concept is so 20th-century — “paleoconservative” perhaps? Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2022 20:56 utc | 132 Posted it in wrong thread, so again here: Posted by: Arne Hartmann | May 1 2022 20:58 utc | 133 Read that France Press Agency is reporting that the Ukrainian Army is being wittdrawn from the Eastern front… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 1 2022 21:01 utc | 134 Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 1 2022 20:34 utc | 121 Posted by: Jonathan W | May 1 2022 21:01 utc | 135 Well, then, why don’t the TPTB get rid of the neocons? Because that does appear to be the plan of the neocons. Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 21:02 utc | 136 rjb1.5 said;”please, please, unfuck your brain. Biden and trump are two sides of the same coin.” Posted by: vetinLA | May 1 2022 21:04 utc | 137 karlof1@77 Posted by: bevin | May 1 2022 21:06 utc | 138 Arne Hartmann | May 1 2022 20:58 utc | 129 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2022 21:08 utc | 139 “like Marx’s Communism, a Specter that is rearing its head again.” Posted by: Arthurdent | May 1 2022 21:09 utc | 140 It’s no longer even clear what Russia’s goals in the Ukraine are. Posted by: Thatami | May 1 2022 21:10 utc | 141 Here Obama talking about containing “hate speech” through harsher censure in social media platforms… Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 1 2022 21:13 utc | 142 What are you talking about? Marxism or any real leftist movement has never been more dead in the West. I can’t think of one western country that has even a smidgen of Marxism at this time. Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 21:14 utc | 143 @ Aleph_Null | May 1 2022 20:12 utc | 112 Posted by: malenkov | May 1 2022 21:28 utc | 144 Obamavirus | May 1 2022 20:50 utc | 125 Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 1 2022 21:30 utc | 145 Posted by: Pnyx | May 1 2022 15:15 utc | 23 Posted by: watcher | May 1 2022 21:32 utc | 146 Posted by: NemesisCalling | May 1 2022 20:34 utc | 122 Posted by: v | May 1 2022 21:35 utc | 147 Rjb@141 Posted by: Obamavirus | May 1 2022 21:42 utc | 148 Posted by: Arne Hartmann | May 1 2022 20:58 utc | 129 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 21:42 utc | 149 Posted by: Pagan | May 1 2022 21:02 utc | 132 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 21:48 utc | 150 #—Not so coincidentally, that was the time that Nuland and the rest of the Kagan clan (Straussians as per Thierry Meyssan) were no longer in positions of influence. Posted by: Anne B | May 1 2022 21:48 utc | 151 The western propaganda machine is worryingly effective. The fact that most of Europe, including Germany, is cheering on a country with a neo-Nazi battalion in its armed forces shows that the lessons of history are being ignored. How did so many people become so gullible? Posted by: D J G | May 1 2022 21:52 utc | 152 Another good comment. I do not in fact agree with you but appreciate that you can see nuances in thoughts and actions, without simplistic thought bubbles. Posted by: watcher | May 1 2022 21:53 utc | 153 About Cauldrons Posted by: Jimmy | May 1 2022 21:55 utc | 154 I just read a posting from yesterday evening saying that Peter Hitchens has received a D Notice preventing him from saying what he thinks about the Ukraine war. Posted by: Lysias | May 1 2022 21:56 utc | 155 NemesisCalling@122 Posted by: bevin | May 1 2022 21:59 utc | 156 The North Atlantic Treaty does not require other members to go to war when one of them is attacked. It only says they will take what they consider appropriate action. Posted by: Lysias | May 1 2022 22:01 utc | 157 There is a man without honor at Turcopolier stating that all what the nazi battallions do and have done in Ukraine against Ukrainian population and Russian POWs is really what the Russians do, he states, projecting obviously, that the Russians have looted, raped and killed all the way in Ukraine…. Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 1 2022 22:01 utc | 158 @Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 1 2022 22:01 utc | 154 Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | May 1 2022 22:02 utc | 159
Some examples of modern societies where previously warring factions learned to co-exist in relative harmony: Posted by: Opport Knocks | May 1 2022 22:05 utc | 160 #—From what force is he trying to undo it from: Nazis? Perhaps, but only if you wish to use that word. To me, it is the anti-Christian force of Globalism that is really at play here.
Posted by: Anne B | May 1 2022 22:12 utc | 161 Posted by: Opport Knocks | May 1 2022 19:49 utc | 102 Posted by: watcher | May 1 2022 22:18 utc | 162 #—In my opinion Putin (and Xi) are such people. You can go to WEF, G20 or whatever, without becoming part of the rara cult. Posted by: Anne B | May 1 2022 22:19 utc | 163 Posted by: bevin | May 1 2022 21:59 utc | 152 Posted by: watcher | May 1 2022 22:21 utc | 164 Good article at Strategic Culture. It begins thus: Posted by: bevin | May 1 2022 22:24 utc | 165 Posted by: Lysias | May 1 2022 22:01 utc | 153 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 22:30 utc | 166 The North Atlantic Treaty does not require other members to go to war when one of them is attacked. It only says they will take what they consider appropriate action. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 1 2022 22:37 utc | 167 And now for the Swiss whitewash and grovelling apology. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2022 22:48 utc | 168 So you can’t set out Putin’s ideology that distinguishes it from the neocons. Saying the majority of the Russian population supports what Russia’s doing tells us nothing about his ideologies. Posted by: K | May 1 2022 22:59 utc | 169 S.O. @ 92 Posted by: circumspect | May 1 2022 22:59 utc | 170 Ukrainian laundromat https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRrYUM1WYAAxGcV?format=png&name=small Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2022 23:00 utc | 171 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2022 22:48 utc | 164 Posted by: Jimmy | May 1 2022 23:01 utc | 172 Posted by: Circe | May 1 2022 19:52 utc | 104 Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | May 1 2022 23:01 utc | 173 Aleph_Null | May 1 2022 20:12 utc | 112 Posted by: circumspect | May 1 2022 23:02 utc | 174 Posted by: Vragtes | May 1 2022 20:09 utc | 110 Posted by: Arvy | May 1 2022 23:03 utc | 175 A point to remember. Posted by: Abe | May 1 2022 23:08 utc | 176 “there’s nothing but more of the same coming from any member of the ruling class. and thanks for pimping a frequent flyer on the epstein express. trump and clinton laughed together at suckers like you on their shared flights to Lolitaville.” Posted by: vetinLA | May 1 2022 23:10 utc | 177 uncle tungsten | May 1 2022 22:48 utc | 164 Posted by: fanto | May 1 2022 23:15 utc | 178 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2022 22:48 utc | 164 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 23:23 utc | 179 I agree with Alexander that this conflict rhymes with Vietnam. The pouring in of vast quantities of weapons to support a corrupt government which is losing the war, only causing unnecessary destruction and ultimately futile, even with the insertion of half a million US troops. Posted by: Oh | May 1 2022 23:25 utc | 180 Andrew B. @ 118 Posted by: circumspect | May 1 2022 23:26 utc | 181 Just finishing up Mercouris’ video from today. He spends most of it analyzing how the Ukraine escalation situation is comparable to the Vietnam war, both in terms of how it started and how it ended up. He fears that if it goes along the same path, US troops will end up in Ukraine with all the attendant consequences. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 23:26 utc | 182 Hausmeister | May 1 2022 17:12 utc | 50 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2022 23:44 utc | 183 Brilliant article by Boris Buden. Truly a must read, especially as regards his very clear-headed analysis of the oligarchic/capitalist predatory problem at the heart of the present Ukrainian crisis. https://www.e-flux.com/journal/126/459559/the-west-at-war-on-the-self-enclosure-of-the-liberal-mind/ Posted by: Menelaus | May 1 2022 23:49 utc | 184 Defending against an encroaching empire – defending against extremists I think fits the terms of a ‘just war’. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 1 2022 23:55 utc | 185 @ NemesisCalling | May 1 2022 20:34 utc | 122 Posted by: MarkU | May 2 2022 0:00 utc | 186 I always comes back to the Norwegian philosopher Harald Ofstad Posted by: K | May 2 2022 0:00 utc | 187 @uncle tungsten @179 Posted by: Manage without me | May 2 2022 0:00 utc | 188 Probably why they are not showing the pictures in the western press. Too many would notice. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 2 2022 0:10 utc | 189 Vragtes | May 1 2022 20:09 utc | 110 Posted by: donten | May 2 2022 0:12 utc | 190 Circe | May 1 2022 19:52 utc | 104 Posted by: donten | May 2 2022 0:17 utc | 191 Come and See …. Posted by: Doesitreallymatter | May 2 2022 0:17 utc | 192 Slight correction: It’s the same background three times, with the people and zoom rearranged. Obvious compositing, at any rate, from having the set of three. Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 2 2022 0:25 utc | 193 Aleph_Null | May 1 2022 23:55 utc | 181 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 2 2022 0:32 utc | 194 Russia must totally destroy Ukraine’s fuel facilities. That will ground them. Posted by: Jason | May 2 2022 0:35 utc | 195 “My understanding is that there is a “diplomatic corridor” established between Poland and Kiev per arrangement with the Russians.” Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2022 20:14 utc | 114 Posted by: Eric Newhill | May 2 2022 0:36 utc | 196 spudski #66
Thank you spudski, but I can’t resist the temptation: these words substitute for surrounded in that reference – Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 2 2022 0:36 utc | 197 AParadiseLost #67
Easy, adhere to market forces as good capitalists SELL Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 2 2022 0:41 utc | 198 Posted by: psychohistorian | May 1 2022 14:50 utc | 16 Posted by: juliania | May 2 2022 0:42 utc | 199 Aleph_Null | May 2 2022 0:10 utc | 185 Posted by: Dadda | May 2 2022 0:47 utc | 200 |
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