Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 17, 2022

Ukraine - For Laughs

'Western' media are nothing but Zelenski regime megaphones.

Liveuamap @Liveuamap - 21:30 UTC · May 16, 2022
Zelensky confirms Azovstal troops evacuation: «Ukraine needs Ukrainian heroes alive. This has been our principle» via @myroslavapetsa
The New York Times @nytimes - 22:59 UTC · May 16, 2022
Breaking News: Ukraine ended its “combat mission” in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated, signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over.
CNN International @cnni - 23:39 UTC · May 16, 2022
Ukrainian forces say they have ended their "combat mission" in besieged Mariupol, as hundreds are evacuated from the Azovstal steel plant.
Reuters @Reuters - 3:35 AM · May 17, 2022
Ukraine's military said it was working to evacuate all remaining troops from their last stronghold in the besieged port of Mariupol, ceding control of the city to Russia after months of bombardment

From the false headline down the Washington Post report on the issue is a master piece of propaganda:

Ukraine ends bloody battle for Mariupol, evacuates Azovstal fighters

Ukrainian fighters have ended their weeks-long defense of a besieged steel plant in the strategic port city of Mariupol, as hundreds of combatants — dozens of them seriously wounded — were evacuated from the complex Monday.

One has to read beyond 323 words of falsehood to find out, down in paragraph 7, what really has happened.

Moscow hasn’t yet publicly responded to the developments in Mariupol, which were described by Russian state media as an order from Ukrainian military command for its troops to “surrender.”

Ukraine’s deputy defense minister, Anna Malyar, said 53 seriously wounded soldiers were taken to a hospital in Novoazovsk, a nearby town which is controlled by Russian-backed separatists. Another 211 were transported to another Russian-aligned village, Olenivka, she said. Moscow and Kyiv are brokering a prisoner swap to secure their release.

Malyar said officials were still working to rescue the remaining soldiers, though it is unclear how many are still inside. Ukrainian authorities said last week there were nearly 1,000 holdout fighters in the plant.

The f***ers finally gave up and surrendered unconditionally to the Russian forces as their only alternative was to decease within the next hours or days.

I am sure that the Russian authorities will apply a fine filter to determine who of those prisoners of war are allegeable for war crime prosecutions, de-nazification and a long stay in some north Siberian road builder camp.

There are also rumors of NATO personnel presence in the Azovstal catacombs. They will likely get to know the cellars of the famous Lubyanka building in Moscow before being exchanged in this or that deal with their home countries.

The rest will eventually be exchanged for Russian soldiers who are unfortunately held by the Ukrainian military.

Posted by b on May 17, 2022 at 9:18 UTC | Permalink

next page »

'The Cry was No Evacuation" doesn't really ring, does it?

Posted by: Merkin Scot | May 17 2022 9:24 utc | 1

A post at Defence Politics Asia YouTube channel reports the following process is being utilized"

The thing to remember about ANY/EVERY single person who leaves Azovstal previously, presently or in the future is this:
1. The Russians are not stupid or sloppy.
2. First they are taken under guard to a processing place. Wounded are under guard during treatment until fit for normal processing.
3. They are scrupulously checked for real identity by their papers and every civil database the Russians have access to. Local Mariupol LDPR investigators are also there to use their local knowledge to verify all claims of civilian neutrality.
4. They are stripped to look for any fascist sympathetic tattoos, men and women alike, it has been reported by one woman evacuee.
5. They are FINGERPRINTED AND PHOTOGRAPHED and their future intended residential address documented as they may be called as witnesses to war crimes in future criminal trials. The LDPR and Russians are fkn serious about legal retributions for the 8 year war and about making sure that not a single nazi sympathiser ever gets back into social circulation.
6. They are interrogated about all personal matters and all knowledge about what is going in inside Azovstal. Obviously, anyone NOT completely forthcoming is held for future interrogation.
7. Only after all the above tests, they are sorted into:
* free civilians to go home, their choice of Uk or LD or RF territory or to refugee camps;
* harmless Ukrainian Regular soldiers who go to LDPR POW camps awaiting exchange for Regular Russian POWs as per Geneva Convention;
* foreign low level mercenary fighters who go to LDPR POW camps awaiting criminal prosecution;
* high level foreigner (eg NATO staff), who most probably go to FSB Headquarters in Moscow for future intel and political purposes;
* Azov fighters who will all get kept as non-swapable POWs to be prosecuted by the LDPF for war crimes. The LDPR Public Prosecutors have publically clearly stated their guilty punishments may be as high as the death penalty.

So that's the strict filtering regime. So have no fear that any of the "Rats of Azovstal" will escape their rightful fates. Even after another 1000-2000 surrenders, the exact same processing will be done to each and every one. The LDPR and Russian military jails are gunna be real full, real soon.

The poster apparently gathered this information from a range of participants in the conflict. He has been following the Azovstal / Mariopul conflict for the past two months collecting information for a possible book.

Posted by: Sushi | May 17 2022 9:27 utc | 2

".... And in Stalingrad, German forces completed their combat mission and are being evacuated" Same old story, some things never change on the Eastern front.

Posted by: Foxbat | May 17 2022 9:30 utc | 3

I suspect the RF / DPR forces will conduct a through search of the Azovstal catacombs.

If I were a "high value" NATO officer I would secret myself in some hidden portion of the underground system at the same time the first group surrenders.

I would then remain hidden and wait for the RF / DPR forces to relax their vigil or search activities and then seek to evade capture by either pre-arranged exfiltration or by attempting to melt into the adjacent civilian population and then crossing the border into Odessa oblast.

Posted by: Sushi | May 17 2022 9:34 utc | 4

Ukraine has won the Eurovision Song Festival in 2004 (Orange revolution), in 2016 ("1944", song partially in Crimean Tatar) and in 2022 (Russian special military op).

This stinks of PR.

Posted by: Passerby | May 17 2022 9:44 utc | 5

Let's be fair - when US forces were routed in Afghanistan or Vietnam it was "strategic withdrawal" and "Mission accomplished"

They left weapons behind just as the British did at Dunkirk when they "withdrew under fire" although British troops had pay docks for missing rifles

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 17 2022 9:53 utc | 6

The only things that have been evacuated are these blokes' bowels.

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | May 17 2022 10:01 utc | 7

Thanks b, you have nailed it again.

This is a subject close to my heart, this 'western' media bullshit semantics and circumlocution is what I intended to comment about. Thanks for the new thread on this very subject. I have noticed how the 'western' media are past masters of semantics and, let's face it, advocacy journalism. I am noticing it again at a more frenetic pace. It is a sign of desperation.

Their inherent problem is it shows, but only to those with eyes to see. It looks to me, I don't want to go too far into speculation, that more 'news' consumers are picking this up too.

Congratulations to b and barflies quoting primary source.

Posted by: Paul | May 17 2022 10:09 utc | 8

Thank you to the blog host for clearing up that the Azovstal complex has now been cleared . I await with eager anticipation to see how many nationalities, and what rank they are, that surrendered to the RF.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 10:09 utc | 9

Very strange combat they were involved in being holed up for nearly 3 months in the underground tunnels of the steel plant making pleas to be extradited to a 3rd country on a regular basis. Strange also that Zelensky states he has to preserve their lives as they are heroes yet isn't remotely interested in the lives of the Cannon fodder being sent to the Ukrainian front line instead ordering them to stand and fight in impossible situations. I guess Nazis are the heroes in Ukraine. Shame on the western media for perpetrating the fake news and lies.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | May 17 2022 10:13 utc | 10

Posted by: Sushi | May 17 2022 9:34 utc | 4

Unless, of course, the RF / DPR forces decide to seal off the plant for good once everyone is evacuated.

Posted by: Martina | May 17 2022 10:21 utc | 11

Posted by: Sushi | May 17 2022 9:34 utc | 4

I wonder if the Russians have seen Inside Man?

Posted by: drezzo | May 17 2022 10:24 utc | 12

the Azovstal complex has now been cleared
Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 10:09 utc | 9

No. It is not "cleared". Austin and Shoigu call (13 May) only agreed to wounded. Reports so far from RF ar ~ 150 ambulatory and critical injured. That's a far sight from wild estimates of 2K.

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 10:29 utc | 13

semantics and circumlocution
Posted by: Paul | May 17 2022 10:09 utc | 8

Here's one: deconfliction
Remember who pulled that one out of his ass, when ASSAD MUST GO was the cause celebre of the day?

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 10:35 utc | 14

Hilarious. Even the pro-Nazi Guardian are admitting that the UK Government's plan to rehouse Ukrainian 'refugees' with idiot Bourgeoise morons has been a disaster.

'Growing numbers of refugees are being made homeless, and in many cases destitute, following relationship breakdowns with their Homes for Ukraine hosts in the UK, community organisations have warned.

Some predict the system could crash entirely amid reports of Ukrainian refugees being asked to leave the homes of their sponsors with as little as one day’s notice, leaving them with no option but to be referred to local authorities as homeless, or if they can afford to, attempt to seek last-minute rented accommodation.

Community leaders said it was happening among typically well-meaning hosts who may have failed to anticipate the enormity of the commitment until refugees arrived in their homes, adding to the stress and trauma of the refugees.

Other factors cited include costs, personality and cultural clashes, hosts not setting house rules, misunderstandings and communication issues....

A 43-year-old Ukrainian woman told the Guardian she was left homeless, terrified and not knowing where to turn after being asked to leave by her Homes for Ukraine hosts after little more than a week.

Following Russia’s invasion she fled her 22nd-floor flat in Kyiv for Spain but she found it difficult to find work. She met her UK hosts, a couple from Exeter, on Facebook who arranged her flights and documentation.

At first, she said, they all got on well and she felt “loved and cared for”. But their dynamic shifted dramatically when she went to visit a man she had met online. Her hosts have accused her of lying.

“It’s a terrible feeling,” she said, speaking from emergency council accommodation in a hotel. “You feel really happy, loved and cared for and then you feel like you’ve been thrown from a high-rise building to the ground.”

Hilarious! White middle class nonentities, who thought they could 'adopt' a Ukie in the same way one would get a puppy, get annoyed when these turn out to be people with their own thoughts and ideas (Many of these bourjie types are Remainiacs as well, with only a hypothetical relationship to reality).

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 10:41 utc | 15

Propaganda plays a vital part in war, as important as the military. The aim: to give hope to its own side, despair to the enemy. But it is dangerous, it creates a misguided confidence that victory is certain. And with victory – power. But power is an illusion, and it leads nations into the conflict they’d be wiser to avoid.

Posted by: peter mcloughlin | May 17 2022 10:48 utc | 16

@Sushi #2
The original poster of the list left out several important additional steps :

1) Russian intelligence certainly has some kinds of lists for Pravy Sektor, Svoboda, Azov, Aidar etc members. The lists might not be up to date, but then again...
2) Russian intelligence also certainly has at least some version of Ukraine DMV data. This type of data is typically extremely poorly protected even discounting the fact that LE, PIs etc have unfettered access.
3) The data access can go further: it is not hard to link identities from 1) and 2) to cell phones and associated social media accounts.

Given the self-aggrandizing nonsense these types have, I'd be pretty damn nervous.

Posted by: c1ue | May 17 2022 10:51 utc | 17

Genuine POW’s will all be released through the Red Cross as used to be the case. Is it still?

These who have committed war crimes and attacks against pows & civilians WILL be arrested, tried and punished and than released. Is the death sentence still in force - if it was good enough for Nuremberg Nazis shouldn’t it still be?

Most of the perpetrators are politicians, journalists, oligarchs though and they need a special serving of Justice., who can cook that up?

As for the Nato and wannabe Nato belligerents and commanders who are out and have done so without so far a televised perp walk - here’s a deal - Assange walks free , right now and can come and intervene on their behalf !
I think it’s a great deal. Any takers?

It’s a good day for the stinking empires end , I feel the first sign of summer, the swallows have arrived.

Have a lovely day y’all! And remember hubris is a bitch!

Posted by: DunGroanin | May 17 2022 10:53 utc | 18

israel appears shocked they can arm and train and fund azov nazis and be immune from consequences in another war theatre

Posted by: hankster | May 17 2022 10:57 utc | 19

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 10:35 utc | 14

"Here's one: deconfliction
Remember who pulled that one out of his ass, when ASSAD MUST GO was the cause celebre of the day?"

Thanks for that new one. I guess that means the desired outcome has been achieved.

The Devil's Dictionary is an oldie but a goodie.

Posted by: Paul | May 17 2022 11:01 utc | 20

Also, yet another piece of evidence (number 98798743) that Brexit was a good idea, as the European 'Union' is a disgusting racist hate organisation.

'All EU member states will support Finland and Sweden in joining Nato, the bloc’s foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, said.

EU representatives will discuss the intentions of both Nordic countries to join the alliance, for which they will receive “strong support”, Borrell told reporters before a meeting of the EU foreign affairs council, adding:

They will receive a strong support I’m sure from all member states, because it increases our unity and it makes us stronger.
He added that he “hopes” Nato will overcome Turkey’s objections to Sweden and Finland’s bid to join the alliance:

I am sure the council will support extremely ... the membership of Sweden and Finland to Nato. I know that Turkey has put some objections. I hope Nato will be able to overcome them.

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 11:04 utc | 21

Looks like the Russians took the gloves off in Lvov.

⚡️Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

🏳️ The surrender of fighters from the Azov nationalist unit and Ukrainian servicemen blocked at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol began yesterday.
Over the past 24 hours, 265 militants have laid down arms and surrendered, including 51 seriously wounded. All those in need of medical assistance were sent for treatment to a hospital in Novoazovsk, Donetsk People's Republic.

💥High-precision long-range sea-based Kalibr missiles near Starichi railway station in Lvov Region have destroyed the personnel of Ukrainian reserve formations, as well as shipments of foreign weapons and military equipment from the United States and European countries, prepared for shipment to Donbass.

💥High-precision air- and ground-based long-range missiles have destroyed enemy reserves that were completing their combat coordination at the training centers near Akhtyrka, Sumy Region, and Desna, Chernigov Region.

💥High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 2 command posts and 1 communications centre, including those of the 30th Mechanized Brigade near Bakhmut, 28 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, and 2 missile-artillery weapons and ammunition depots near Ugledar and Konstantinovka in Donetsk People's Republic.

▫️The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 470 nationalists and up to 68 armoured and motor vehicles.

▫️In addition, 1 traction power substation have been destroyed near Merefa railway station in Kharkov region, which was delivering weapons and military equipment from the United States and Western countries to Donbass.

✈️💥Operational-tactical and army aviation have hit 9 command posts, 93 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 3 ammunition depots near Luparevo and Shevchenkovo in Nikolaev region.

💥Missile troops and artillery have hit 6 command posts, 224 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration, 12 artillery and mortar batteries at firing positions, 4 BM-21 Grad MLRS batteries and 2 air target detection radar stations.

💥Russian air defence means have shot down 23 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles over Pitomnik, Izyum, Snezhkovka, Olkhovatka, Dementievka, Russkaya Lozovaya, Bolshie Prokhody and Petrovskoe in Kharkov Region, Staromikhailovka, Novotamarovka, Novotroitskoe, Nevelskoe, Sverdlovo, Avdeevka and Vladimirovka in Donetsk People's Republic.

▫️8 Smerch rockets have been intercepted near Chernobaevka, Kherson Region.

▫️Yesterday between 10:00 and 11:00 a.m. Ukrainian nationalists used Smerch multiple rocket launchers to hit residential areas of Kherson. Russian air defence means have intercepted all 10 Ukrainian rockets.

❗️I would like to stress that there are no units of Russian troops in Kherson. The Kiev regime is well informed about this. The strike was deliberately targeted at civilians in Kherson in retaliation for supporting the Russian Federation.

📊In total, 168 Ukrainian aircraft and 125 helicopters, 912 unmanned aerial vehicles, 309 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,134 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 385 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,542 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,983 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing

Posted by: Kim | May 17 2022 11:06 utc | 22

Still no Canadian generals, French colonels or any Nato officers.. lets see how many stories that never materialise still circulate..

I suspect it will be a few nothing burgers for domestic and fanboy consumption, anything of significance will be suppressed or distorted in Western media as always, and the war will go on like nothing ever happened at Azovstal.

For those tired of hearing about Ukraine, here is something more significant in Syria:

Naturally, in true Russian fashion, missiles "did not present a serious threat to the IAF fighter jets.". Presumably Israel would need to shoot another few more Russian planes to actually feel deterred.

Posted by: Et Tu | May 17 2022 11:15 utc | 23

... Austin and Shoigu call (13 May) only agreed to wounded. ...
Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 10:29 utc | 13

I wonder if that call had any bearing, those just surrendered have done so on standard RF terms, nothing special that we can see.

Perhaps the import of that call was the lack of a sweetheart deal, hence the apparent holdouts?

Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2022 11:16 utc | 24

"... There are also rumors of NATO personnel presence in the Azovstal catacombs ..."

Indeed, some pretty big fish were apparently caught down in the tunnels by the Russian military:

Retired US Admiral Eric Olson
British Lieutenant Colonel John Bailey
Retired Canadian General Trevor Cadieu

And US Lieutenant or Major General Roger Cloutier may have been captured as well if reports of his being in Izmir in April 2022 turn out to be unsubstantiated.

There had been reports that Russian military listening in on conversations in the Azovstal tunnel networks heard up to six languages including Polish and Swedish being spoken so doubtless more NATO "advisors" from Europe will become known.

Posted by: Jen | May 17 2022 11:22 utc | 25


It may be wise to suspend belief in reports of high profile captives until they have been officially claimed by Russia and video evidence is produced.

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | May 17 2022 11:25 utc | 26

Hidari @ 15:

The other side of the coin may be that British hosts booted their Ukrainian guests out of their homes when the guests started singing the praises of Adolf Hitler and refused to stop.

Posted by: Jen | May 17 2022 11:27 utc | 27

Considering that editors of the "rules-based order" have not as yet published a very, very special edition of "humanitarian laws of" something something Geneva Convention for PUTIN'S WAR, those in the know willl want carefully to sort unlawful combatants, mercenary "brigades" invited by Volodymir Churchill, and UAF enlisted. (We've seen so far from RF taped POW interrogatories, how many deny knowledge of or participation in uhh indiscriminate violence against civilians.)

Unlawful combatants do not qualify for prisoner of war status. Their situation upon capture by the enemy is covered by the Fourth (Civilian) Geneva Convention if they fulfill the nationality criteria and by the relevant provisions of the Additional Protocol I, if ratified by the detaining power.

Acting on behalf of a state has constituted the primary means of attaining combatant, and therefore legitimate, status. As a result, a significant number of participants in warfare do not meet the established criteria and are, consequently, considered `illegitimate' or `unlawful.' This includes those fighting in international armed conflict as well as groups engaged in armed conflict not of an international character. The uncertain status of these `illegitimate' warriors is evidenced by the variety of terms used to describe them. ...

Warriors Without Rights? Combatants, Unprivileged Belligerents, and the Struggle Over Legitimacy
The term “unprivileged belligerent” is used to refer to an individual who directly participates in an international armed conflict but who either does not have or has lost their combatant status. As a result, they are not entitled to combatant privilege (i.e. immunity from prosecution for lawful acts of war) and do not benefit from prisoner of war status if they fall into enemy hands. Sometimes the term is equally used to designate (fighting) members of a non-state armed group in a non-international armed conflict.

The specifics of how IHL applies to such persons is controversial....

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 11:35 utc | 28


Indeed. If we had any comedians left, one could write a Monty Python type sketch (like this one: )

in which Mr and Mrs White Middle-Class Englishman have to cope with the 'cultural differences ' involved in giving up the spare room to Mr 'Hilter' and his friend Mr 'Hilmmer' the new Ukrainian refugees.

But sadly we have no comedians anymore, just boot lickers of the bourgeoisie. Ah well.

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 11:39 utc | 29

I think you have the dynamic exactly backward: most of the refugees are just regular people who are happy to have this opportunity to start a new life in a first world country. Their woke hosts are probably disappointed that they would rather be engaged than “engagee”

Posted by: Platero | May 17 2022 11:40 utc | 30

I saw some video footage of cluster munitions raining down on the steel plant. Pretty frightening... don't know if they were trying to escape or what. Wonder if that was the final straw before surrender

Posted by: Goldhoarder | May 17 2022 11:43 utc | 31

The next segment of forces to leave Avostal "will not be filmed" by their own request. NATO "advisors" or Biowarfare semiCivilians?

I just had a comment "They will have their own chance to give their own version in court" blocked by the FT. (paraphrased). Clearly the object of the "heroes being saved", or whatever, will be to minimise the war crimes tribunals that will happen later. Which is another reason they are being "evacuated" as "innocent menial staff" by the MSM, and not "captured" as POWs subject to the Geneva conventions.

One count put the number of die-hard Atovs as 404, yeah I know, coincidences do happen. The others are regular troops and support staff. (Total overall 2227, unconfirmed)

Side thought or wild speculation; Billy boy Gates has the flu.....Covid, and has retired from view. Why has he gone into hiding? I am still waiting to learn what the BioLab in Azovstal were making. Eugenics for WEF? Poisoned birds for Russia?

Poisoning pigeons in the Park, and We will all go together when we go

Posted by: Stonebird | May 17 2022 11:55 utc | 32

Secret Video;

Here is a secret video taken of an Azov Nationalist in the Hospital last night after surrendering, he could barely move, there is something in his mouth or maybe his tongue is swollen from dehydration.


Posted by: Dean Oneil | May 17 2022 11:55 utc | 33

Posted by: hankster | May 17 2022 10:57 utc | 19

i"srael appears shocked they can arm and train and fund azov nazis and be immune from consequences in another war theatre"

Thanks for your post,

it leads to the obvious question which must be on the mind of many world leaders:

Who is a more reliable ally? the Anglo/Zionists or Russia?

Look at the track record of both.

Posted by: Paul | May 17 2022 11:59 utc | 34

the council
Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 11:04 utc | 21

Very recently I almost entertained an argument with someone, a citizen of an EU27 nation, who told me, "the council is not a part of the EU." I was told that I--having linked relevant *.eu FAQ pages enumerating powers of both iterations PLUS the latest "consillium" conclusory "war-time" statement, recommending alteration of the treaties-- had confused the European Coucil with the Council of Europe, because I pointed out regardless of reference, heads of state constitute the council(s) political and "compentence" (admin) parts of the EU.

I figuratively walked away then, with the certainty that person had not read one page, not even the preambles, of the TEU (Maastricht) and TFEU (Lisbon).

Article 1 TEU) (1)
By this Treaty, the HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES establish among themselves a EUROPEAN UNION,
hereinafter called ‘the Union’
on which the Member States confer competences to attain objectives they have in common.
At this point, I can't concern myself anymore with what happens to so-called democracy in Europe.

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 12:02 utc | 35

Stonebird #32

Poisoning pigeons in the park.

Thank you, brings old memories of lehrer dissing the establishment. How appropriate to be rubbing Lehrer into the nazi face right now.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 17 2022 12:03 utc | 36

I have a question on the foreign NATO officers captured (allegedly.)

If they are indeed taken to Moscow and interrogated, and eventually traded for some other "assets", are their military careers in the west over? I would think they'd be seen as "damaged goods" and politely given an offer they cannot refuse, i.e. retirement.

Posted by: Chris | May 17 2022 12:04 utc | 37

Re Scott Ritter’s change of analysis on the SMO, hard not to disagree.. Russia is trying to keep it a special military operation with a limited size force, whereas nato are flooding in heavy weaponry which could change the dynamic. How russia thinks it can take cities like kharkov, dnepro, odessa with this small force doesnt make sense.

however, when the weather is drier in june the tank columns may get rolling.

Posted by: Oh | May 17 2022 12:09 utc | 38

The next segment of forces to leave Avostal "will not be filmed" by their own request. ...
Posted by: Stonebird | May 17 2022 11:55 utc | 32

Those “who knows themselves to be war criminals”, as one RF spokeswomen put it.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2022 12:21 utc | 39

Also, yet another piece of evidence (number 98798743) that Brexit was a good idea, as the European 'Union' is a disgusting racist hate organisation. [...]

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 11:04 utc | 21

Count me confused. If EU is indeed "a disgusting racist hate organisation", wouldn't it be another reason to remain? I bet that any sign of EU being ADRHO is shared by UK with pride. It is just that "macro-NATO" contains EU, much more exclusive AUKUS and some tag alongs, so UK may feel superior.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2022 12:31 utc | 40

UK left EU because EU became german instrument. That’s all.

Posted by: njet | May 17 2022 12:34 utc | 41

talk abut spin doctors of the world unite - unbelievable headlines in msm. I am not surprised exactly - it just is amazing to me how these supposedly reputable news outlets lie lie lie and lie some more.
I wonder who ordered whomever ordered the "evacuation". Austin of the USA?
thanks to sushi for enumerating the actual conditions of the surrender - er, no I mean "evacuation".

Posted by: a lurking reader | May 17 2022 12:37 utc | 42

HisarI is dense, Brexit was stupid. NATO is long past it’s useful age. Brexit is much to blame for much of the inflation. Own goal. Speaking of Hacks, where is RSH? He still think Russia is gonna take Lviv next week?

Posted by: scootindallas | May 17 2022 12:37 utc | 43

Posted by: Chris | May 17 2022 12:04 utc | 37

It depends on their conduct. If they regret their stint in Azovstal, gentle retirement is the best they can expect, but if they offer best effort in indoctrinating, planning, recruiting etc., they may be happy till they die.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 17 2022 12:38 utc | 44

here is some more on media manipulation:

The Anglo/Zionists have organised a demonstration against BBM in Melbourne and played it up on TV.

Here is another view;

There is more trouble ahead for Filipinos, unless BBM plays his allotted role as a US proxy and host to US offensive weaponry.

Posted by: Paul | May 17 2022 12:41 utc | 45

...foreign NATO officers captured (allegedly.) ... eventually traded ...
Posted by: Chris | May 17 2022 12:04 utc | 37

Traded for what? The Banderites have absolutely nothing comparable as a like-for-like trade, except maybe Medvedchuk, who's a civilian political prisoner now being held by the US, which absolutely reeks of lawless desperation!

RF has more than enough Ukie POWs to trade back all its people many times over, without even considering whatever’s still in Azovstal.

RF’s done deals in the past that quietly returned NATO+ captives in exchange for commitments that NATO+ subverted from the outset. All RF really did was let NATO+ keep their domestic propaganda narratives intact, which are essential to western war efforts.

I suspect that RF is determined to see this thing through to trial & sentencing.

The more & worse the merrier.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2022 12:52 utc | 46


- George Orwell, 1984

Posted by: Comandante | May 17 2022 12:57 utc | 47

As someone who served in DoD media for many years, IMO, it is obvious Zelenski agreeing to allow wounded out of the tunnels is to propagandize the world with "see what those bad evil Russians are doing to our poor troopers, keeping them locked underground for months to slowly die from their injuries?!!!"

Posted by: ERing46Z | May 17 2022 12:59 utc | 48

Posted by: ERing46Z | May 17 2022 12:59 utc | 48

It's almost like he didn't order them not to surrender,

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 13:02 utc | 49

How to chalk up Unconditional Surrender as another Great Ukrainian Victory. To the Great Hero GHOST OF KIEV

Posted by: CryptoAlchemist Bern | May 17 2022 13:03 utc | 50

>>>>: Martina | May 17 2022 10:21 utc | 11

Unless, of course, the RF / DPR forces decide to seal off the plant for good once everyone is evacuated.
Blow fly ash from coal-fired power stations into the upper level then add water. A well known technique for filling underground cavities and voids. Leave a single exit from the deeper levels. Not difficult and why waste lives.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | May 17 2022 13:03 utc | 51

@40, @43

Brexit is just the beginning believe me. I thought, a few years back, that the EU would be lucky to make it to the year 2100. Now I think it will be lucky to last till 2050.

There have been innumerable attempts to unify Europe, from the Roman Empire, to the Carolingian Empire all the way through to, well, er, Hitler. They've all failed because Europe is fissiparous by its very nature. The EU will fail. It's just a matter of time.

Incidentally, Brexit has helped push the Scots and the (Northern) Irish, and even some Welsh to the realisation that the 'United' Kingdom has no future, so it's all good.

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 13:05 utc | 52

I'm waiting for the Nazi-loving Nazi-denying supporters of Ukraine to start arguing that Putin must be a Nazi because he helped the Nazi Azov Battalion to "evacuate" Azovstal. Only problem, they'll have to admit that Azov Battalion is Nazi.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | May 17 2022 13:07 utc | 53

Posted by: Jen | May 17 2022 11:22 utc | 25

There is online a Special Ops Conference 2011 with Adm Eric Olson receiving some award - in the column on the far right partially obscured is the name "John Bailey" but if you use Search it returns no result.......

It is clear they go some way back so my guess is John Bailey is Royal Marines or SAS

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 17 2022 13:10 utc | 54

All Nazi-loving Ukraine supporters who comment here should ask themselves this question, and answer it honestly.

If the circumstances in Mariupol were reversed and DNR/Russian forces were surrounded in Azovstal do you think the Azov Battalion would have allowed them to surrender and taken the wounded to hospital?

I think not.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | May 17 2022 13:10 utc | 55


You are right. One of the most persistent charges against the socialist campaign to leave the EU and, it should be recalled, NATO too, was that of racism. Brexiteers were accused of pandering to anti-immigrant bigotry. And the vote against the EU was interpreted by the Tories, Blairites and Tartan Tories as an indication of working class fear of fair competition with cheap, biddable, indoctrinated labour.
In reality as the latest accessions to NATO show, what the US has been running, in NATO and the EU, is a White Man's club excluding only the 'sub-human' slavs. This is Hitler's idea of Europe which itself was a Europe based on the Jim Crow southern racists' view of the world.
When the fuhrer of the Azov's political wing talked of the war against the 'moskals' being part of Ukraine's mission to lead the white races he was reflecting the views of the Solid South's Senators in Congress who led the campaign to re-arm Germany and heat up the Cold War.
This is an analysis that is easily, instinctively, understood in those parts of the world that have lived under colonial rule and need no schooling on the real meaning of terms like "European values" and a "shared culture' embracing not just NATO but the rest of the Five Eyes too, with Israel- pursuing a racist war against the indigenous people that would have made Hendrick Verwoerd blush.
The real racists in the EU campaign were those who remembered the days when to be 'European' in Aden or Algeria, Egypt or anywhere ruled by the Empire meant to live under privileged laws, with non-european servants/slaves and the right to do just about anything one chose. That was freedom.

Posted by: bevin | May 17 2022 13:15 utc | 56

Seems no one has cited the Monty Python Black Knight sketch yet. “‘‘Tis merely a flesh wound.”

The West is never going to admit reality. There is no way they can be brought kicking and screaming to face reality. So destroy their economies, starve them out. This is in progress. When they starve to death they will not admit defeat.

But they will then be irrelevant. Making the West irrelevant is all that can be done.

Posted by: oldhippie | May 17 2022 13:16 utc | 57

Posted by: ERing46Z | May 17 2022 12:59 utc | 48

Parallel tribunals are already running. On one hand, the UNSC court of IMF dependents railroading the PUTIN-linked RF with poignant, anonymous reflections of rape, looting, "extrajudicial" (lol what is war. if not?) killing, mass graves, genocidal shelling of ... ethnic-Ukraine nationals somewhere other than Donbas. On the other, the RF military court systematically identifying fact patterns and documenting Ukrainian POWs' conspiracy to commit "war crimes".

You know already how this farce of truth and reconcilliation will end, if ever, right?
(the incorrect answer is thermonuclear bombardment)

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 13:18 utc | 58

Ghost Ship@51
Because the complex still has value and can be rebuilt?

Posted by: bevin | May 17 2022 13:18 utc | 59

There is little online about Lt Col John Bailey so he may well be Spec Ops "invisible" and since so many of British forces are now integrated into US operations he may well be assigned to Eric Olson. The level of integration of British units within US units in terms of interoperability is way beyond what most Europeans could comprehend

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 17 2022 13:19 utc | 60

fact check -

The Azovites and their NATO officers surrendered to the army of the Donetsk People's Republic. Mariupol was (mostly) liberated by DPR units and lies within the recognized borders of the DPR.

The peacekeeping operation is a allied action by 3 countries ; DPR, LPR, and RF

Posted by: Exile | May 17 2022 13:21 utc | 61

The gall of these deceitful western news agencies to call a surrender an evacuation.

Posted by: steven | May 17 2022 13:24 utc | 62

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 13:05 utc | 52

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. England pays the bills. Subsidy to N Ireland is around £20 billion annually; to Scotland about the same. IF Ireland were united 33% population would be from The North and taxes would need to rise 7%.

The Irish Republic has no National Health Service. The drop in living standards in The North would be immense even without an allocated share of UK National Debt. The British Foreign Office wants to offload N Ireland onto Dublin which would then collapse.

There is NO majority in N Ireland for this solution. 1975 the Wilson Government proposed independence for N Ireland and Dublin feared collapse and knew their army was too weak to control terrorism

Scotland has NO majority for independence unless England votes. Scotland gets vastly more public spending per capita than Northern England. Getting rid of Scotland would reduce living standards there to the levels of Greece and boost English living standards enormously.

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 17 2022 13:24 utc | 63

15 - Reminds me of a Western bourgeois vogue for adopting Romanian orphans in the early 1990s. That too often ended on a sour note.

Posted by: Waldorf | May 17 2022 13:31 utc | 64

Given the constant repetition of "Russia is bogged down", "Ukraine is winning", etc. week after week, how will Zelensky and the Western MSM spin it after Russia's Special Operation accomplishes its goals?

Will we see straightforward BS or might there be sour grapes included? (example: "Mariupol was not that important afterall.")

Posted by: Mark Mosby | May 17 2022 13:32 utc | 65

25 - I suspect they are or were down there but the Russians putting them on display is another matter entirely. They may prefer to whisk them off to Moscow for some questioning sessions, and then stick them in confinement, perhaps to exchange them at some point down the road. I would use them for propaganda but I am not Putin or Shoygu and who knows what calculations there are.

Posted by: Waldorf | May 17 2022 13:38 utc | 66

'Getting rid of Scotland would reduce living standards there to the levels of Greece and boost English living standards enormously.'

Yes this is definitely something which would happen, which is why England, of course, is so desperate to get rid of Scotland.

Isn't it funny how 'You clearly have no idea what you are talking about' always means 'I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about?'

In any case, chatter on the internet doesn't matter. In the long run, Ireland will be united, and Scotland will be free because in the absence of a British Empire, there's no imperial 'glue' to hold the imperial British project together.

Anyway enough derailing the thread.

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 13:44 utc | 67

"Scotland has NO majority for independence unless England votes. Scotland gets vastly more public spending per capita than Northern England. Getting rid of Scotland would reduce living standards there to the levels of Greece and boost English living standards enormously."

Paul Greenwood (63).

Paul its obvious by the above that you haven't been paying attention, England has no say on Scottish independence, that is for Scotland's Holyrood parliament to decide. however the current FM doesn't want Scotland to leave the union and has settled for UK PM Johnson to issue an S30 before we can vote on it, but he said he'll never issue it.

Well for a country so dependent on English cash, why won't the English PM agree to it and be rid of the so called Scottish burden? the answer is of course that Scotland not only sends half its revenue down South, England needs Scotland to house the USA's nukes, and English nuclear subs at at Faslane, and whatever else England and the USA are hiding in the mountain at Coulport.

As for living standards, as part of the union Brexit included, which Scotland didn't vote for Scottish living standards have dropped

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 13:45 utc | 68

@57, 65

Remember how quickly the 'West's' humiliating defeat in Afghanistan was forgotten? How long did it take? A month? Less than that?

Posted by: Hidari | May 17 2022 13:47 utc | 69

Russia must not exchange any nato or especially British soldiers.
Russia must kill all British mercenaries anywhere found plotting against Russia otherwise plot by british to wage war on Russia through proxy will never end.

Posted by: Soi | May 17 2022 13:51 utc | 70

Hidari (69).

I see the West has buried the Kramatorsk train station massacre after an Italian film crew showed the video of the booster section (still quite intact) of the Tochka-U missile which had very clear and identifiable numbers on it that were traced back to Ukrainian forces.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 13:51 utc | 71

To me it looked like the Tories under John Major started Brexit, trying to stay in power by using divisions between English-born and other EU citizens over the latter’s ability to work in the UK (as per EU provisions). They used controlled media to blast their line and won a vote by the skin of their teeth. It was also about the Atlanticism of the Brit ruling class, Tory links to Trumpian politics and thinking the “Atlantic alliance” as they construed it could trump (pun intended) the benefits of EU membership. Meanwhile, they also intended to keep as many advantages of their former membership as they could. Thus the current Irish border crisis, still unresolved and possibly leading to Irish reunification and separation from the UK (finally). Scottish independence may not be too far behind. So you go, Bojo! Destruction of the “rules-based” order is moving along, not a moment too soon, hastened largely by the stupidity of its main operatives/beneficiaries.

Posted by: Lonl | May 17 2022 13:59 utc | 72

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 13:45 utc | 68

Wrong, the English Parliament decides if a vote on independence can be held or not, the Scottish Parliament has no say in the matter.

Posted by: Barofsky | May 17 2022 14:03 utc | 73

Interesting news.

"The Ministry of Internal Affairs of the LPR reported the capture of up to 16 thousand soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Lisichansk and Severodonetsk"

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:10 utc | 74

I may have missed some but scrolling through the comments I only spotted one mention of Austin.

his phone call to Shoigu and some of the nazi's coming out of the rat hole come so close together that they are most likely linked.

One of Kadyrov's big fish seems to be among them...

Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 17 2022 14:10 utc | 75

As the "Battle of Azovstalamo" comes to an end, let the legends begin. I'm sure there is a Hollywod production well under way somewhere.

Posted by: Vincent Berg | May 17 2022 14:13 utc | 76

Barofsky (73).

You obviously aren't aware of the Claim of Right which was acknowledged by Westminster it supercedes the Act of Union, in England the monarch is sovereign, in Scotland its the people.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:15 utc | 77

Posted by: sln2002 | May 17 2022 10:29 utc | 13

Re the Shoigu phone call, see Pepe Escobar's note on it:



Now confirmed by one of my top intel sources.

The call was a direct consequence of PANIC. The USG by all means wants to scotch the detailed Russian investigation - and accumulation of evidence - on the US bioweapon labs in Ukraine.

As I stressed in a previous post, Shoigu had refused to pick up calls from weapons peddler retrofitted as Pentagon head Lloyd “Raytheon” Austin since the last week of February and the start of Operation Z.

This phone call happened EXACTLY after an official Russian statement to the UN: we will use articles 5 and 6 of the Convention on the Prohibition of Bioweapons to investigate the Pentagon’s biological “experiments" in Ukraine.

Shoigu cold see the call coming eons away.

Reuters, merely quoting the proverbial “ Pentagon official”, spun that the one-hour-long call led to nothing. Nonsense.

Austin allegedly demanded a “ ceasefire” - which must have originated a Siberian cat smirk on Shoigu’s face.

Shoigu knows exactly where the dire facts on the ground - for the Ukros and UkroNazis - are leading. Especially in Donbass: it’s a military disaster the USG cannot possibly spin.

Now, in parallel, we can also expect full exposure - on overdrive - of the Pentagon bioweapon racket.

The only “offer you can’t refuse” left to the USG is to REALLY offer something tangible to the Russians to avoid an investigation. Not gonna happen. All will be revealed.

Posted by: Barofsky | May 17 2022 14:17 utc | 78

Posted by: Merkin Scot | May 17 2022 9:24 utc | 1

Well played, Sir!

Posted by: Cortes | May 17 2022 14:20 utc | 79

Sadly , I believe we will never see the trial of any warcriminal Natoists or Azovstalis. They will likely be exchanged and we will never know their identity and also only for them to return one day . Call me pessimistic but I don’t like what I see.

Posted by: Brother Ma | May 17 2022 14:21 utc | 80

Its interesting to note that the so called democratic nation of Finland that out of the 200 at the Finnish parliament 188 voted to join the bullyboy club, no mention of the people of Finland getting a vote on it. Following this, the government will submit a formal proposal to the president. It is expected that the head of state Sauli Niinistö, who is on a visit to Sweden, will approve it remotely as soon as possible. Finland's ambassador to NATO, Klaus Korhonen, will then submit the application to the alliance's headquarters in Brussels. I wonder if the Swedes will do the same.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:21 utc | 81

@Hidari | May 17 2022 13:05 utc | 52

Brexit is just the beginning believe me. I thought, a few years back, that the EU would be lucky to make it to the year 2100. Now I think it will be lucky to last till 2050.
I doubt EU will make it to 2030. Let's see how things go in 2025.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2022 14:22 utc | 82

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:15 utc | 77

Ok, never heard of it but it's all a bit academic don't you think? Nicola Sturgeon has no intention of challenging Westminster, it's all a load of theatrics and hot air, she's much more interested in personal power.

Posted by: Barofsky | May 17 2022 14:23 utc | 83

Video - the surrender of the Ukro nazi and the evacuation of the wounded from the Azovstal plant.

Posted by: alaff | May 17 2022 14:33 utc | 84

I wrote about this in a post early this morning - my theory on significance of the Azovstal surrender (it's nice, but not significant, sorry), and what's likely to happen in this war moving forward in the summer (it's NOT good news).

Posted by: Ian Kummer | May 17 2022 14:35 utc | 85

When will we hear of the promotion of Eric Olson to Fleet Admiral?

Posted by: Peter VE | May 17 2022 14:36 utc | 86

@Brother Ma | May 17 2022 14:21 utc | 80

Sadly , I believe we will never see the trial of any warcriminal Natoists or Azovstalis. They will likely be exchanged and we will never know their identity and also only for them to return one day . Call me pessimistic but I don’t like what I see.
Maybe "concerned" will do.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2022 14:36 utc | 87

Barofsky (83).

Yes you are correct Sturgeon has no intentions whatsoever of attempting to hold an independence referendum, oh she's made noises about holding one next year, but no preparations have been done that need to be done, and she's adamant that no other route exists but the route through Westminster via an S30 and she won't hear of any other credible Plan B's of which several exist.

There's even a Police investigation (ongoing) into missing ringfenced funds provided by the public for such a referendum. I'm sorry to say Scotland has become a banana republic under Sturgeon's tenure.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:39 utc | 88

@Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:21 utc | 81

Maybe the good news is that everybody can see that the idea of representative democracy in the 'west' is completely flawed.

Posted by: Norwegian | May 17 2022 14:40 utc | 89

Posted by: Brother Ma | May 17 2022 14:21 utc | 80

I fear you will turn out to be correct.

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | May 17 2022 14:43 utc | 90

a theory: nazis are low on food, so got rid of the wounded to have more time. maybe there is a timeline according to some plan?

Posted by: albagen | May 17 2022 14:43 utc | 91

every last one of them is a war criminal... there is no filtering involved... they were holding civilians hostage, which is a war crime, and "just following orders" is never a defense for war crimes.

Posted by: oldcutlas | May 17 2022 14:43 utc | 92

Human safari in Eastern Europe?
Wars for food, diamonds/coal and water?
All seems to have been discribed in this novel, The Russian Soul...

Posted by: Roda | May 17 2022 14:47 utc | 93

Craig Murray gives another reason why Turkey is hesitant to allow Finland and Sweden into Nato, the USA is backing Greece in the militarisation of Greek island close to Turkey.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 17 2022 14:48 utc | 94

From the NYT, the nonsense just keeps coming:

Ukraine appeared to surrender control of the Azovstal steel complex in Mariupol late Monday, allowing hundreds of its fighters to be taken by bus to Russian-controlled territory and declaring that its combat mission in the city was over.

The military ordered the remaining troops who had been sheltering beneath a steel factory there to focus on efforts “to save the lives of their personnel.” President Volodymyr Zelensky said of the last soldiers who had held their positions, “We hope to save the lives of our boys.”

. . .The apparent Russian victory at the Azovstal plant was one of the few bright spots for Russia on Monday. Earlier in the day, Mr. Zelensky said that a small group of Ukrainian soldiers had reached the Russian border near Kharkiv — a powerful symbolic moment in Ukraine’s pushback against Russian invaders.

And President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia appeared only more isolated, as he met with his five closest international allies. Only one of them spoke up in support of his war.

Three months after launching its invasion of Ukraine, Russia has suffered repeated setbacks. After failing to seize the capital, Kyiv, and topple the government, Russian forces regrouped last month for what was meant to be a broad assault in eastern Ukraine, but until Monday they had yet to secure a single major strategic gain even as their losses mount.

Posted by: DocHollywood | May 17 2022 14:48 utc | 95

Blow fly ash from coal-fired power stations ...
Posted by: Ghost Ship | May 17 2022 13:03 utc | 51

Nice, a time capsule for future generations to carefully plaster-cast and study!

Kind like a Ukronazi Herculaneum, damn your good =)

Posted by: anon2020 | May 17 2022 14:49 utc | 96

@Brother Ma #80

Today they announced they'll place Azov on terrorist list and ban prisoner exchanges for them.

And as funny news: Today Engie and Eni announced they will pay for gas in rubles, Finland announced they won't pay anything to Gazprombank, ready to disconnect and asked all their companies to exit from Russia
I wonder if they're ready for oil disconnect too :)))

Posted by: rk | May 17 2022 14:54 utc | 97

@ uncle tungsten #36

I loved the razor blade line at the tender age of six gazing at the glorious sunsets in the little beach town of Palm Beach...

Oh, soon we'll be out amid the cold world's strife.
Soon we'll be sliding down the razor blade of life.
But as we go our sordid sep'rate ways,
We shall ne'er forget thee, thou golden college days.

Hearts full of youth,
Hearts full of truth,
Six parts gin to one part vermouth!

Posted by: Scorpion | May 17 2022 15:00 utc | 98

Sushi | May 17 2022 9:27 utc | 2

Sushi | May 17 2022 9:34 utc | 4

Thanks Sushi for reassuring process details. Given earlier estimates of trapped fighters, 1000+, it does seem quite likely that the relatively small surrendered group is cover for others. I trust RF/DPR forces will now meticulously comb the catacombs for the bigger rats. If captured, it'll be quite interesting to read similar semantic gymnastics from regime media.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | May 17 2022 15:11 utc | 99

Posted by: njet | May 17 2022 12:34 utc | 41

UK left EU on Washington orders. US deep state financed and coordinated referendum. US wanted to punish Germany for approaching Russia. They wanted an ally in Europe to take on Germans.

Posted by: Milos | May 17 2022 15:22 utc | 100

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