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April 21, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-52

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

Posted by b on April 21, 2022 at 14:22 UTC | Permalink

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We all know the CIA's been involved in Ukraine since 1945 when it was the OSS. These writings by L. Fletcher Prouty don't cover Ukraine, but they do provide info on how such an operation's run and kept hidden from those charged with oversight. This index page contains all the links to Prouty's archive at site all barflies ought to have in their favorites. Here's an outtake from another article:

"Assassinations are not made by the Forty Committee; they are permitted. When the South Vietnamese military found out that the U.S. was withdrawing its support from the Diem brothers in Saigon, there was but one thing for the Diems to do. Take that preferred plane ride and leave quickly. Trujillo was too proud to heed the warning, and he was shot down in the streets. The Diems were too stubborn. They returned to their palace to find that their CIA-trained elite guard -- their only real personal protection -- had vanished. They were defenseless, dead.

"Many of the telegrams that tell this story are contained in the Pentagon Papers. Anyone can see how this country removed its support from the Diems' government and all but engineered their murders. An interesting sidelight to this came up in the Watergate testimony: Charles Colson ordered E. Howard Hunt to doctor up the State Department cables pertaining to the Diem murders in order to make it appear that President John Kennedy had ordered that act. Look at this from another perspective. Colson, Hunt, and others knew that Kennedy had not ordered those murders. They wanted it to look as though he did. If Kennedy did not order that action, someone of lesser authority did. Was it the Forty Committee? If not the committee, was it the CIA acting alone? Without belaboring this crucial point here, this is what it is all about. Who has this tremendous power? Who uses this great power -- with or without presidential consent, let alone without the consent of congress? The record is full of these actions. Eisenhower, Kennedy, LyndonJohnson, and Nixon were all caught in this web." [Emphasis Original]

My point is to show that in most cases POTUS doesn't know what's being done behind his back or what was being done behind his predecessor's back, and that reality's been ongoing since 1945.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 21 2022 21:48 utc | 101

Posted by: Sundial | Apr 21 2022 17:12 utc | 36
"I really thought it was God or something like that."

It is. Bwahahahahahahaha...

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 21:49 utc | 102

Posted by: MarkU | Apr 21 2022 20:25 utc | 78

"Quite, that is something I have been saying for a long time now. The only other way it could make sense is if a controlled demolition of the west is intended and the banksters intend to switch mounts and continue to rule the planet from China."

I cannot go there even though it is the simplest explanation for what is going on.

Consider (relates to some other posts just above too) and just off the top of my head:

Who killed JFK?
Bush was CIA chief.
Obama's mother was CIA and his likely father Frank Davis was affiliate. After his election the story was circulating how people in a dinner party in Moscow mentioned they had a sleeper being groomed for President.
Bill Clinton a Rhodes scholar.
Trump has very strange connections.
Trudeau most likely a son of Castro (really!).

The point is, Intelligence is all over the place. And then we have Biden: he and his family are being compromised/controlled with millions from Ukrainian oligarchs connected with gas and biowarfare and millions from similar connections in China including ministerial level officials. So we have Obama as some sort of communist / CIA connected man from nowhere who proceeded to undermine the Republic from the top down and inside out, and now his work is being continued albeit more openly and aggressively by his ex VP who is compromised by both Ukraine and China (at the least) with many other senior Democrats like Pelosi feeding at the Chinese trough as well.

One of the prime goals of the current war is to topple the US from its hegemonic pedestal. And one of the prime goals of the current "Biden" regime is to bring the US to a point of constitutional, economic and cultural dysfunction.

Isn't it strange that Russia, China and "Biden" seem to share the same goals whilst ostensibly Russia and US are in a proxy war on the battle field of Ukraine?

What does Bannon say? 'There are no conspiracies but there are no co-incidences.'

Something very strange is going on.....
(when is it not)

But wouldn't it be nice for the Empire of Lies to just, in the immortal words of Buckaroo Bonzai, 'b-b-b-b-buzz off!'

Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 21 2022 21:51 utc | 103

Lucci #12

Russia need to control and close the borders of Ukraine fast. Capturing Odessa would limit the chances of another Moskva event from happening.

Agreed. But easier said than done, just take a look at the topography and the close proximity of Odessa city. IMO to close the border needs a continuous air force strategy as human and cannon power will be exposed to whatever artillery is in Odessa city. I assume the stingers are destined for Odessa so sealing those roads and border stations is essential but tricky. Russia seems well and truly up for that challenge.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 21 2022 21:55 utc | 104

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 21 2022 17:47 utc | 42
"The pact would allow routine interactions between American and EU institutions on defense issues and open the door for U.S. defense contractors to participate in the bloc’s growing defense spending under certain conditions."

That was the whole point of the exercise. I speculated earlier that the US was not only sacrificing the EU economy in order to slow the descent of the US economy, as Hudson and Martyanov say, but that in fact the US wants NATO be defeated in a war with Russia - with the US somehow staying out of it - in order to bind the EU's very existence in terms of military security and infrastructure rebuilding a la Iraq to the US MIC.

And the US could stay out of a NATO war with Russia. Once Russia destroyed all the airfields and ports - which as Martyanov says, they would - in the first days of the war, the US could then tell Europe, "Hey, guys, sorry, we can't reinforce you since there is no way to do it - you're on your own. We won't use nukes because that threatens us. Sorry." Then after the war is over, the US gets the contracts to rebuild.

Dumber things have been considered by the US, so this is entirely plausible IMO.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 21:56 utc | 105

@Posted by: Olivier | Apr 21 2022 19:58 utc | 72

You left out one:

-"Z" is the svastika of the XXI century and we should start asumming it"

by Pedro Rodriguez, another Fullbright Scholar, highly likely a foreign agent in Spain..

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 21 2022 22:01 utc | 106

Fire at a research research facility involved in Russia's missile program and another fire at a chemucal plant, along with 2 "murder/suicides" of prominent Russian gas executives and their wives and daughters.

Coincidence or sabotage and assassination?

Posted by: Woogs | Apr 21 2022 22:03 utc | 107

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 21 2022 21:22 utc | 91

“This cross-cultural phenomenon of shutting down, even criminalizing, the last meager channels of coherent information in "the west" -- it seems self-perpetuating. Auto-escalatory, like military "aid" to Ukraine…”

* * *

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

However, the fact alone, that you are able to even “visualize” the reversal of totalitarian momentum, as you put it, is an incredibly positive sign, at least in my view. There are so many who still “get it”, are aware, awake, and able to see through the bullshit.

You address the question of total “informational, historical erasure” and have touched upon a very central question. I certainly am not able to provide completely solid answers to such questions but am sure that with the demise of the current Internet as we know it, new inter-networks will evolve.

They will come to exist in spaces removed from the “old Internet”, which has now been taken over by corporate and national interests solely dedicated to keeping the masses distracted by games, consumerism and keeping the trough full.
Mankind’s intellectual, cultural, and historical heritage will be saved, far removed from the corporate influences which seek to manipulate and dominate every level of our existence and awareness. But we will have to change and educate ourselves for that to happen.

I hope we make it through that transition.

Posted by: GreyRaven | Apr 21 2022 22:05 utc | 108

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 21:41 utc | 96

Thanks, Richard, (though this should be on the Ukraine thread, where I did add a further comment - and have my full answer to your post as well as the Tass article. It isn't going to be something, (just my view of course) that Russia would want to do, to completely administer the whole state of Ukraine on their own - they have issues with their own state that will need to be monitored, surely.

I will note that the Xi speech posted by Karlof1 has security as its theme, and that both China and Russia emphasize the importance of adhering to UN based law - the Tass article may be slanted, both as to its emphasis on the Security Council in the headline, and in the selection of quotes they use, but my argument stands - you can view it again with my addendum at #6 I believe, on the open Ukraine thread above.

Indeed the UN needs its own 'reset'. So this would be an opportune way to begin that process. Thank you again for posting the article.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 21 2022 22:07 utc | 109

Trudeau most likely a son of Castro (really!).
That is what is called going over the top.
What you say about Obama and Bush is important and useful information. You are right about Clinton too, though the Rhodes scholarship angle is marginal (to put it mildly). AS to Trump, he certainly does have strange connections.
But the Trudeau thing is just silly Tory gossip. And it wouldn't be significant if it were true, except to the sort of idiots who believe that politics are transmitted through spermatazoa, and hold that Trudeau, a thorough reactionary in the pockets of US oligarchs, is a 'leftist'.
Which discredits a line of musing that actually required a thought or two about Biden, who is as corrupt and compromised as any President in modern history.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 21 2022 22:12 utc | 110

@ Kana | Apr 21 2022 18:25 utc | 51

My knee-jerk reaction to establishment people calling others traitors is to throw the accusation back in their faces. The likes of Mitt Romney, Chris Coons, Keith Olbermann and other warmongering shills are in fact the real traitors to the United States and its people, because they court annihilation through their arrogant seeking of "full-spectrum dominance." Actually, the language lacks sufficiently denunciatory terms for their ilk, but I choose "traitor" as the one most likely to get their goat. If people could go to their public appearances and just shout, "Traitor! Traitor! Traitor!" in their faces, it would be satisfying. Maybe one could even occasionally induce them to drop dead from heart attacks like happened to Henry Jackson when he went apoplectic over the Korean airliner.

And yet, maybe that type of reaction is unwise, however well-deserved and satisfying to shout, because descending to their level may simply exacerbate the internal conflict in the US and make things more dangerous. An internal reckoning is coming, I do not doubt, but no one can predict exactly how it might unfold and it is more likely to be ugly than beautiful.

Also, establishment figures screaming traitor at Tulsi Gabbard and others seems to show me that they are frightened out of their wits, evidently because their whole project of global domination is unraveling, and maybe also because they can't even conceive of a means to get at Russia and China, much less put one into effect. Unfortunately, just as Russia is invulnerable to the US, the US, existentially, has the same invulnerability of possessing the Great Equalizer of atomic weapons. So the problem is how to engineer a demotion of the US from would-be world empire to just one - albeit large - parochial state among many without having the rage of American entitlement blow up the planet. I have no solution to this problem, but I am sure if there is one it will not be simple. Therefore I share with gottlieb and some others here a bleak view of the future.

Posted by: Cabe | Apr 21 2022 22:12 utc | 111

Excellent article in south front today on Zelenski’s fascist government

Posted by: Peter Fenton | Apr 21 2022 22:13 utc | 112

Posted by: GreyRaven | Apr 21 2022 22:05 utc | 107 "There are so many who still “get it”, are aware, awake, and able to see through the bullshit."

From what I can see, it is only a tiny minority that congregate in grog shanties like this and then have different views.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 21 2022 22:13 utc | 113

@Woogs (106)

Nobody wants to know here, all drunk in mutual admiration, it seems. Ostrichism, probably born out of a feeling of impending success, seems to have gripped the Kremlin as well.
Russia can stay in the G20, oh goody. Meanwhile the UK is sabotaging its way through the land.

Posted by: bjd | Apr 21 2022 22:14 utc | 114

Posted by: GreyRaven | Apr 21 2022 19:54 utc | 70
"Probably one of the most chilling observations I’ve heard in a long time."

Probably true. I recall someone saying once, might have been in a movie, something to the effect "look at all the books about Hitler and the war in a bookstore. With all the swastikas, you'd think we won the war."

Update: Found the reference - from a Marvel comic book character:
"The Nazi ghost who still haunts the free embarrassing cliche, yes? But why such outrage? The notion thrills most people. Look in any bookstore... from all the swastikas decorating the covers, you'd think we won the war. —Nikolaus Geist (Earth-616)"

The Hitler and National Socialism phenomena was by any account a major event in the 20th Century. I was fascinated by it and still am, as a political and messianic phenomena. It was also supported by a lot of people in the US before 1941 - look up the German-American Bund: /wiki/German_American_Bund or Nazism in the Americas:

Since the war, there has been a significant revival of Nazi ideology in all sorts of areas, from heavy metal music to occult societies.

For whatever reasons, there is a deep influence of that ideology on Western society and even in other societies. Look up Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano and Asit Krishna Mukherji. That's why the rise of neo-Nazis to the degree it has in Ukraine is dangerous for the rest of Europe and the US.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:18 utc | 115

@Posted by: Jimmy | Apr 21 2022 19:29 utc | 64

Someone made some stages of the issue and we already are way into it... the country of the champion of democracy...

Ukrainian "refuges" are defacing Holocaust memorials in germnay without anybody in the government or in the EC saying a word, the least in Israel...

The fascists of the Zelensky Regime destroy in Chernihiv the monument to Zoya Kosmodemianskaya, Heroine of the Soviet Union, Komsomol militant hanged by the Nazis in 1941 after being tortured.

These people will be used against the for now confident population when the skies start falling end of this year or the next one...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 21 2022 22:19 utc | 116

@Posted by: malenkov | Apr 21 2022 18:56 utc | 60

I was being obviously he who believes himself an Adonis, the people is saying he went there for another photo for his book....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 21 2022 22:24 utc | 117

Woogs #99

2 Russian gas executives found dead along with each ones wife and daughter. One in Spain and one in Russia. "Apparent" murder/suicides.

Ha Ha newsweek turns it into a 'Putin did it" story in typical lame style.
So if the cia tribune (newsweek) is saying that then I guess it is a UKUSA hit.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 21 2022 22:24 utc | 118

Posted by: Milos | Apr 21 2022 18:04 utc | 47

Thirty year US treasury bond reached today the highest yield in last fifty years

Thirty year US treasury bond yield has been steadily dropping since peaking at over 14% in 1981. It is currently 3%.

There fixed it for you.

Posted by: Don't Flayme | Apr 21 2022 22:24 utc | 119

Posted by: bjd | Apr 21 2022 22:14 utc | 113
Any stats show Russia is a rough place. Though stats show US as being rougher as in murders per 100,000. US gulag system tops the charts. felons....

In your twisted case, projection? toddler tantrum? No understanding of other cultures perhaps?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 21 2022 22:26 utc | 120

@Arch Bungle | Apr 21 2022 17:17 utc | 39


What an awful video. The way they pretend to know what is in Putin's mind always seem to contradict Putin's statements. Reality does not matter. The UK ("West") is a pathocracy/kakistocracy.

Posted by: Sundial | Apr 21 2022 22:26 utc | 121

@Peter AU1

Any other ad hominems and straw men?

Posted by: bjd | Apr 21 2022 22:28 utc | 122

Posted by: Woogs | Apr 21 2022 22:03 utc | 106
"Coincidence or sabotage and assassination?"

Could be anything including competitors. But if it's western intelligence, they better watch out. The KGB used to be masters of that sort of thing and I suspect there are plenty of Russian spooks who remember how to do it. I personally wouldn't mind if a number of western oligarchs suddenly turned up dead in gas explosions or cars falling off a cliff or "heart attacks". Let's bring back the old Prussic acid guns!

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:28 utc | 123


Posted by: Sundial | Apr 21 2022 22:26 utc | 120

Kudos for even knowing the word.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:28 utc | 122

I'm not going to defend the bourgeois - but 13 and 18 year olds are unacceptable collateral victims.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 21 2022 22:36 utc | 124

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 21 2022 22:36 utc | 123

Never suggested otherwise. Precision targeting is the name of the game.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:38 utc | 125

New Scott Ritter interview... Probably nothing new, but you never know...

Unregistered 207: Scott Ritter

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:40 utc | 126

Ha Ha newsweek turns it into a 'Putin did it" story in typical lame style.
So if the cia tribune (newsweek) is saying that then I guess it is a UKUSA hit.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 21 2022 22:24 utc | 117

I don't get "ha-ha" out of it. 2 dead Russian gas execs and their families dead in short order. Then 2 fires in Russia, one at a research facility for missile tech and another at Russia's largest chemical processing plant.

Regardless of Newsweek's slant on it, somebody's playing dirty pool. Doubtful this is getting by the Russians.

Posted by: Woogs | Apr 21 2022 22:41 utc | 127

From Pepe Escobar's Telegram channel...

“NATO is not ready for war with Russia”

This statement was made on April 19, 2022 by General Sir Richard Barrons, head of the NATO Joint Forces Command in 2013-16, during a hearing in the Defense Committee of the British Parliament.

The general said: “I am generally concerned that the main reason we are trying to avoid a war between Russia and NATO is that NATO is not ready. And we should be ashamed of it."

Richard Barrons acknowledged Britain's near-total lack of missile defense: "I don't think many people in the UK have given much thought to the implications of Russian cruise missiles coming to London...they exist and we simply don't have the means to deal with them in any way." except for tiny amounts."

The general was asked at what point NATO would have no choice but to fight Russia. He replied that NATO "will have something to say" if Russian troops can change their plans and threaten most of Ukraine, i.e. will not stop at its eastern part. Richard Barrons also called for appropriate preparations for this.

What can be noted. Firstly, the British general did not say that Russian nuclear weapons and the maintenance of strategic nuclear parity with the United States are deterring a direct military clash between Russia and NATO. And this is the main reason why the alliance has not yet got involved in hostilities on the territory of Ukraine itself.

Secondly, Russia itself will determine the limits of conducting a special military operation on Ukrainian territory, and NATO will not indicate to us. And if NATO tries, then, as Vladimir Putin said on February 24, 2022: “The Russian response will be immediate and will lead you to consequences that you have never experienced in your history. We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made.”

Incidentally, yesterday's first launch of the world's heaviest and most powerful intercontinental ballistic missile, the Sarmat, is about this topic. Don't bother us, it will hurt.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:43 utc | 128

Posted by: Phil Espin | Apr 21 2022 19:59 utc | 73

“I honestly believe that the majority of the people of Britain, France, Germany and Italy would be as appalled as the Russians about Ukrainian fascist activities, if they were reported.”

I am not so sure, because the hatred for all what is Russian is so strong that anything is now possible, even that these people turned like the ukronazis. They know what are nazis and they are supporting them without any doubt. Everything becomes Russia's fault and guilt.

This hatred was been built for so many years... Since Putin got rid of Eltsin's mafia and restored Russia's sovereignty.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 21 2022 22:44 utc | 129

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:28 utc | 122

Yeah, 2 can play that game is my thought, too. It's dangerous to escalate in that way. Could get out of hand real fast.

Posted by: Woogs | Apr 21 2022 22:46 utc | 130

From the Russian MoFA Telegram channel... From the inimitable Maria Zakharova...

#Opinion by Maria Zakharova

Boris Johnson has urged the Russian government to treat the Briton detained in Mariupol while fighting on the side of the Ukrainian government forces “humanely and compassionately.”

Here is what we have to say in this respect.

Boris, we know that you personally and your Government have disavowed the British subjects who have fallen victim to British propaganda and went to Ukraine as mercenaries to kill people there.

Don’t pretend to be worried. You are utterly unconcerned about the fate of Britons in trouble. They didn’t drink champagne with you at Downing Street, and so they can wait for your protection till kingdom come.

I would like to tell the following to those Britons who are concerned about their compatriots: Don’t worry, Russia is taking care of them. They are given food and drink, as well as any other assistance they may need, just as the other foreigners who have surrendered or have been detained.

Unlike the Ukrainian fighters who brutally kill prisoners and torture civilians, the Russian Armed Forces are committed to humanitarian law. If there were no media censorship in Britain, everyone there would know this.

At the same time, we urge the British authorities to treat the citizens of Ukraine “humanely and compassionately,” as Boris Johnson said, by stopping the delivery of weapons to Ukraine. The more weapons London is sending to Ukraine, the more citizens of Ukraine die as a result. But the BBC will never tell Britons about that.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:46 utc | 131

From Russian MoFA Telegram channel... Maria Zakharova on Gonzalo Lira...

#Opinion by Maria Zakharova

Gonzalo Lira, a video blogger, author and famous film director and a citizen of Chile and the United States, has not been in contact since April 15 after he went missing in Kharkov. He was where the action was, actively commenting on the events in Ukraine, first in Kiev and later in Kharkov. He honestly and professionally reported about the causes of the crisis and the ongoing outrages, including the Nazis’ atrocities. His video reports have helped many people in the West see the truth. The far-right radicals hated what he did and he started receiving threats.

The liberal queers and “honest” Western journalists, which is often one and the same, echoed the neo-Nazis’ threats. And now these “members of the public” are merrily discussing Gonzalo’s disappearance and are openly threatening their colleagues who dare to speak out openly about the events in Ukraine without mincing words.

‘Patrick [Lancaster], you next,” tweeted a transgender journalist from Las Vegas, who is reporting from Kharkov and often takes photos with the thugs from the so-called territorial defence forces.

They are doing their best to cancel and cross out those who disagree with them.

Sergey Korotkikh, aka Botsman, a chieftain of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, has hinted that his neo-Nazi confederates could be involved in Gonzalo’s disappearance: “It is ironic that Gonzalo Lira, a Chilean, has been captured by the man whose alias is Chile. Anyway, hope to see a beheading video on Telegram soon.” How do you like that? Incidentally, Chile is one of those who murdered and tortured Russian servicemen.

The tweet has been deleted, because Lira is a US citizen, but nothing can be deleted from the internet without a trace.

This is fresh proof that the cannibalistic liberal logic is so closely interconnected with the Nazi ideology that it is sometimes impossible to tell which is which. This is indicative.

P.S. We sincerely hope that the media mayhem raised by Azov Nazis and Western propagandists is nothing more than theatrics and that Gonzalo and his family are all well.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:50 utc | 132

Russia’s latest round of sanctions targets Harris, Klain, Zuckerberg

I doubt they care. But it's good to see tit-for-tat even if it's mostly meaningless in both directions.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:01 utc | 133

Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 22:43 utc | 127

The eve of destruction. Napoleon tried. Hitler/nazi germany tried.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 21 2022 23:02 utc | 134

From Russian MoD Telegram channel, latest briefing...

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

During the day, 14 Ukrainian assets were hit by high-precision air-based missiles.

The strikes hit 1 command post, 2 ammunition depots, 2 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 2 nationalist strongholds near Popasnaya.

Ammunition depots were destroyed in Shnurki and Slavyansk and the Ukrainian Armed Forces' manpower and equipment were also hit in Cherkasskoe and Aleksandrovka.

Up to 120 nationalists, as well as more than 30 armoured vehicles and cars, were destroyed.

Operational-tactical and army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 64 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 17 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration near Krasnyi Liman and Drobyshevo, as well as 2 missile and artillery weapons depots near Zaporozhye.

Missile troops and artillery hit 450 enemy assets during the day. Including: 14 command posts, as well as 429 strong points and areas of manpower and military equipment concentration in Velikaya Kamyshevakha, Chervonoe, Pashkovo, Novaya Dmitrovka in Kharkov Region.

Russian air defence means shot down 1 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle near Yasnoe, Donetsk People's Republic.

In total, 140 aircraft and 106 helicopters, 512 unmanned aerial vehicles, 254 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,422 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 266 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,051 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,274 units of special military vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing

Also additional news from MoD's "Top News of the Day" post...

Top News Today

Report by Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu ( to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Armed Forces Vladimir Putin on the liberation of Mariupol. [Posted by Karlof1 in this thread]

Missile troops and artillery hit 1,001 military assets of Ukraine ( Among them: 58 command posts, 162 Ukrainian artillery firing positions, and 771 strong points and areas of concentration of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment in Mayaki, Dibrovnoe, Mazanovka, Dolina Krasnopol'e, Velikaya Kamyshevakha, Chervonoe, Vernopol'e, Pashkovka, Dmitrovka, Novaya Dmitrovka, Vysokiy, Chernoglazovka, Slatino, Zolochev, Partizanskoe, Aleksandrovka and Shevchenkovo of Nikolaev region.

During the day, 14 Ukrainian assets were hit by high-precision air-based missiles ( The strikes hit 1 command post, 2 ammunition depots, 2 areas of Ukrainian manpower and military equipment concentration, as well as 2 nationalist strongholds near Popasnaya.

The Kiev regime has prepared in advance another sophisticated provocation ( to discredit the Russian Armed Forces before the international community in Voskresenskoe, Nikolaev Region. At the instructions of the AFU command, information and psychological operations specialists staged filming of "acts of looting" allegedly committed by Russian servicemen against civilians: fighters of the 191st Battalion of the 123rd Territorial Defence Brigade dressed in Russian uniform and using vehicles with a "Z" sign demonstrated looting of private homes and making photos and videos of their outrages on mobile phones. [MY NOTE: You'd think these guys would be more useful spending their time fighting Russians than making videos. :-) ]

Selected National Guard of Ukraine casualty figures ( obtained from actual Ukrainian documents have been published. They disclose significant casualties among military personnel of the military unit 3029 (by March 29, 2022).

Footage of Russian Smerch multiple-launch rocket systems striking Ukrainian Armed Forces facilities ( has been released, as well as video of the consequences of a missile strike by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on a peaceful civilian ( enterprise in Tokmak in Zaporozhye Region.

Surrendered AFU servicemen are being treated in hospitals on LPR territory ( AFU servicemen described conditions of detention ( and their attitude to torture on the Ukrainian side.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:10 utc | 135

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 21 2022 23:02 utc | 133

According to Martyanov, people have been trying for 800 of the last 1,200 years. First Rule of War: Don't march on Moscow.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:11 utc | 136

" Isn't it strange that Russia, China and "Biden" seem to share the same goals whilst ostensibly Russia and US are in a proxy war on the battle field of Ukraine? "

The Moskva was 44 years old and was going to be decommissioned soon anyhow. Draw your own conclusions.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 21 2022 23:14 utc | 137

Milos #45

I put this in Google:
Nobody wants to keep dollars

And it responded with this:

It looks like there aren't many great matches for your search

For comparison I used

And got heaps with plenty from USA msm and other countries.

Forget gurgle, it sucks.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 21 2022 23:15 utc | 138

U.S. labs preading biological agents via avian flight?

This is apparently what happened, unintentionally, when Army labs in the 50's developed strains of Lyme disease more virulent than the strains occurring the wild.

The problem? While the strains were developed and isolated on an island in Buzzards Bay, the ticks caught rides on sea birds and proliferated on the mainland.

I first saw this information in Ross Douthat's new book, "The Deep Places."

Posted by: Macrobius | Apr 21 2022 23:16 utc | 139

On the CIA and control. Read Prouty. At the very end of his short "Helicopters in Vietnam" is this:

"Translated into everyday terms, Casey's CIA, as was Allen Dulles' CIA, is one of the true bastions of power as a servant of the American and transnational business and financial community." [My Emphasis]

How many here read David Korten's When Corporations Rule the World and wondered how they'd do so? The answer is above. What three letter agencies are allied with another three letter entity--the WEF--and who/what actually did the planning for The Great Reset? When the CIA says a hypothesis is a conspiracy theory, what is the CIA actually admitting? The late Michael Ruppert who did an excellent job as an ex-LA cop investigating the CIA and did an outstanding job of unveiling the CIA's Wall Street links--all before 911--and archived it at his copvcia website, of which the archive has some. I just revisited two of his 1998 articles related to the Clinton Impeachment, and the smoke's still there. After 911, Ruppert wrote Crossing the Rubicon. Here's a 2004 review that shows Ruppert's book has relevance today because of the anthrax attacks:

"There most certainly is a connection to the attacks and the future use of black ops bioresearch."

As Mike said, "I can't do it by myself." But he still tried, and it cost him his life.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 21 2022 23:19 utc | 140

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:11 utc | 135

I don't know if any of us will survive this shitshow.

But I'm pretty sure that Russia will.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 21 2022 23:19 utc | 141

Referenced from Dambiev Telegram channel... Fairly long article.

Who is buying bargain Russian oil in Asia?

Nearly two months after Russia invaded Ukraine, much Russian oil continues to flow to Japan, South Korea, China and India, the latest tanker-tracking data shows.

Since the start of the war on Feb. 24 until April 18, a total of 380 oil tankers departed Russia, according to a Nikkei Asia analysis of data from Refinitiv. That is up slightly from 357 during the same period last year.

The number rose on the year even after massive civilian killings in Bucha, Ukraine, came to light on April 2. From that date through April 18, 119 tankers departed from Russia, compared to 109 last year.

Of the 380 tankers that departed since Feb. 24, 115 are or were headed to Asia: 52 to China, 28 to South Korea, 25 to India, nine to Japan and one to Malaysia. That represents an eightfold increase for India and a 33% increase for China over the same period last year. The numbers for the other countries were down 16%.

Major Western economies, such as the U.S. and the U.K., have announced they will stop importing Russian oil as part of their broader response to the war in Ukraine. Even before decisive government action, energy companies such as BP and Shell had said they would no longer buy from Russia due to a combination of shareholder pressure, reputational risk and logistical hurdles.

As a result, the benchmark price for Ural crude in Europe slipped by around 30% between early March and mid-April, falling from $111 to $78 a barrel, according to Refinitiv data.

That price dip has given those willing to do business with Russia the chance to land a bargain.

"We have started buying. We have received ... quite a number of barrels, I would think about three to four days' supply, and this will continue," Indian Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said this month at an event organized by a local broadcaster. "I would put my country's national interest first. ... First of all, fuel is available, and available at a discount. Why shouldn't I buy it?"

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:19 utc | 142

Public Opinion in Russia:
“They must be out of their minds”: how the Collective West is stumbling towards nuclear Armageddon....

Posted by: bevin | Apr 21 2022 23:22 utc | 143

I thought this interview with a professor at an English university was enlightening and recommend it. It shows that not everybody is totally brainwashed by the orwellian hatred unleashed on the poor (soon to be) citizens of the UK,

Posted by: Oh | Apr 21 2022 23:27 utc | 144

Flying Dutchman #48

"Five permanent members of the UN Security Council (Russia, China, the UK, the US, France) may be the basis of guarantor states for Ukraine..."

The very idea that the US or UK could be anointed guarantor states for any peace agreement is obscene, and of course idiotic. It would guarantee only the constant subversion and eventual complete abrogation of any such agreement.

Only the morbidly stupid or flat-out treasonous could even entertain the idea of a "Minsk III".

Agreed but it maintains the veneer of authoritative discussions and role of the UN in 'deciding' world affairs. I am fairly confident that comrade Lavrov will be able to spin it out for another five or ten years of talk talk talk.

Ukraine will be reconstructed by then and will exercise its sovereign authority to decline UN interference or outright reject UKUSA until they come clean on the biolabs and birds business, extradite war criminals to serve their sentences, announce a debt amnesty for the war 'IMF loans' foisted on the zelensky regime, pay reparations for war damages. etc...

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 21 2022 23:27 utc | 145

Interesting article from Great War Channel on Medium (in Russian):

In the distant days of the Cold War, American planners believed that one gun would need 207 rounds, and one MLRS installation 99 rockets for the day of a defensive operation.

Accordingly, a self-propelled artillery regiment of 18 AS-90 self-propelled guns would need 18 * 207 = 3,276 155 mm caliber shells per day.
And a shelf of 24 M270 MLRS installations - 24 * 99 = 2,376 rockets or 396 containers of 6 missiles.
And even with such a predicted consumption, the warehouses of NATO countries in Europe, on average, had ammunition for two weeks of hostilities.

And now the West is slowly digesting the information coming from the zone of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and drawing conclusions.

Conclusion one

Even such a relatively small conflict requires much more weapons and ammunition than was supposed to be 10 years ago. Of course, not on the scale of the First or Second World War, but it is absolutely necessary to prepare the military industry for mass production.

According to open data, the Americans have already given the Ukrainians a quarter of their stocks of missiles for Javelins, and the British have given more than half of the available NLAWs.

At the same time, the consumption of ammunition in terms of each (presumably) destroyed target turned out to be many times greater than previously predicted. No "one shot - one dead" and in sight. And Ukrainians demand more and more.

In general, the question of increasing the pace of military production is being discussed at the Pentagon, it was raised at a meeting of the US leadership with representatives of the American "defense industry", and even on defensenews, well-known to many, they are already openly writing about it.

Second conclusion

Passion for the so-called. "light forces" turned out to be a harmful delusion. On the battlefield, of course, any "hi-tech" appeared in the form of modern means of reconnaissance, communications and target designation, but everything is decided, as before, by tanks and artillery. From which the conditional “special forces on quadrics with Javelins” raked and continues to rake.

It is especially funny now to watch the heated debate of the British military, who were previously offered the concepts of all sorts of Light Brigade Combat Team on MRAP and Deep Recce Strike Brigade. The latter, in fact, is a brigade combat group on Ajaxes and Boxers with a "long arm" in the form of long-range artillery. Ajax, however, is not ready, and the artillery in the proposed OShS does not yet have the means of logistical support. Well, the artillery system itself is in question.

In general, opinions are divided.

One part of the British is convinced of the superiority of light forces and their ability to "shoot tanks from afar, like archers on the knightly cavalry at Agincourt."

Another, more reasonable part of the British military community does not support the idea of ​​"light forces" and wants in the days of BAOR, with full-fledged armored divisions.

Conclusion three

Modern weapons, even tactical ones, perform best in interaction with other modern systems, which means they require well-trained personnel. A Volkssturm with a two-week course does not last long in modern warfare. Just like the reservists hastily mobilized from a deep reserve, thrown straight to the front. As the "special operation" going on in Ukraine has shown, their short presence on the battlefield does not pay off the cost of modern weapons issued to them.

If it is still possible to prepare and deploy relatively quickly the mass production of weapons (although it is expensive), then it is no longer so easy to organize a rapid training of military specialists. Even during the world wars, a three-month training period for an ordinary infantryman was considered depressingly short, a period of six months was called close to optimal. And for combat-ready units formed from scratch, on a new and unfamiliar material part, a year was required.

And this is the real problem that all participants in the potential major conflict in the Indo-Pacific have yet to solve.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:32 utc | 146

RSH from what I understand, she is the official spokeswomen rather than personal opinion.
a big difference between her and the ladyboy azov sperm bank cheering the possible demise of Lira.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 21 2022 23:36 utc | 147

From Rybar Telegram channel...

About referendums in Nikolaev and Kherson

The Ukrainian authorities are now trying by all means to prevent the holding of a referendum on the territory of the Mykolaiv and Kherson regions.

On April 20, Ukrainian volunteer and blogger Valeriy Kuleshov was killed by unknown people in Kherson, whom the Ukrainian media pointedly called “pro-Russian” in their publications.

At the same time, leaflets began to appear on the streets of the city with threats against "Russian occupiers and everyone who supports their regime."

Ukrainian Telegram channels spread information about the deputy of the Kherson city council Ilya Karamalikov, who was detained a few days ago and accused of treason for collaborating with the "Russian occupiers".

To enhance the effect, one of the most popular Ukrainian politicians today, Vitaliy Kim, was involved in working out the topic.

The head of the Nikolaev Regional State Administration for the second day in a row is forced to comment on the news about the preparations for referendums in Snigirevka and Kherson, promising to “recapture” and “liberate” these territories. By doing so, Kim hints at imminent retribution for all those who cooperated with the Russian side. The threat of a referendum in the Kherson region has just been announced in the operational command "South" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

And this is an important signal: the Ukrainian side is forced to recognize the inevitability of referendums in all territories liberated by the RF Armed Forces.

And now you can not be afraid of sabotage and provocations. Of course they will continue. You have to prepare for them.

And don't stop.
#Kherson #Nikolaev #Ukraine

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:41 utc | 148

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 21 2022 23:36 utc | 146

Yes, but it is described as her "opinion" on the MoFA site, not an official statement by the MoFA itself. I don't think the distinction matters much, though, other than the tone in which she says it is less "diplomatic" than an official statement.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:44 utc | 149

From Rybar Telegram channel...

Odessa fortified area: how to prepare for the offensive of the RF Armed Forces from the Nikolaev region

While peaceful life is being established in Kherson, artillery duels and insane digging of ditches continue in Nikolaev, in the Odessa region they are feverishly preparing for the offensive of the RF Armed Forces.

The main forces have been transferred to the Nikolaev region, so they use recently mobilized, ideological nationalists and territorial defense units. [MY NOTE: This means when the fight begins the city will be taken fairly easily, depending on how many Azov are there.]

The Khadzhibey Estuary Dam has been mined. Officially, the authorities deny this information.

The entrances to the city from the side of Ilichanka and Chernomorskoye have been mined. Patrols have been established on the highways, fortified areas and checkpoints have been deployed.

From the side of Odessa, weapons and ammunition are constantly brought to the front line of defense.

The building of the Main Directorate of the National Police in Odessa itself has been turned into a control point. The entrances to the building are blocked. Fortified areas are equipped in separate schools and gymnasiums.

Map in high resolution
( #map #Odessa #Russia #Ukraine

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:48 utc | 150

From Rybar Telegram channel forwarded from some other source I can't translate... An article on Gonzalo Lira...

A month ago, we wrote about a Brazilian military correspondent who was forced to leave Ukraine due to direct threats ( from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. At that time, few people took his statements about Kyiv's repressions against journalists seriously, because the mainstream media ignored his story.

Now the Chilean-born American director Gonzalo Lira has fallen under the rink of Zelensky's repressive machine. For public criticism of the Ukrainian authorities and the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the journalist paid with his life - the Kraken unit of the Azov National Regiment has already taken responsibility for his disappearance.

The American issue writes ( about ignoring Lira's story in the US media space, where he was branded as "Putin's agent". In the journalist's homeland, the situation is almost identical. All well-known Latin American publications that trumpeted the murder of American documentary filmmaker Brent Reno by the Russians ( are silent about the death of Gonzalo Lira.

Chilean Journal of Bio Bio -en-ucrania-rastro-se-perdio-el-15-de-abril.shtml) considered it necessary only to talk about the disappearance of Lyra, without even reacting to the statements of former American intelligence agent Scott Ritter about the involvement of Ukrainian Nazis in the case. And what about the authorities of Chile? Left-liberal President Gabriel Boric is too busy with the environment to comment on the situation, and the country's Foreign Ministry is limited ( -lira-se-encuentra-desaparecido-en-ucrania/) with banal replies in the spirit of “trying to contact the Ukrainian authorities.”

The Council of Chilean Journalists is trying to get a reaction from the authorities, but due to the lack of communication channels, Lira's caring colleagues naively turned ( -de-un-colega-desaparecido/?outputType=amp) to the NGO Reporters Without Borders. The answer was obvious - “we don’t know anything” and we don’t want to know, for us he is the wrong journalist.

Human rights defenders and one of the most “democratic states (” of South America turned out to be indifferent to the fate of their compatriot. Who cares about freedom of the press and human rights when a journalist gives the “wrong” picture.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 21 2022 23:57 utc | 151

Woogs #106

Fire at a research research facility involved in Russia's missile program and another fire at a chemucal plant, along with 2 "murder/suicides" of prominent Russian gas executives and their wives and daughters.

Coincidence or sabotage and assassination?

There are no coincidences at this level. But two can play.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2022 0:01 utc | 152

" There are no coincidences at this level. But two can play.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2022 0:01 utc | 150 "

But when was the last time Russia actually " played ". How many more dead ambassadors will it take ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 22 2022 0:05 utc | 153

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 21 2022 23:14 utc | 136

I don't think Russia and China share Biden's goal of regime change in Russia and China.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 22 2022 0:18 utc | 154

Gee... I should have posted Xi's speech on this thread so some might learn something.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 22 2022 0:23 utc | 155

From Colonel Cassad Telegram channel... I didn't bother with the Canadian list...

List of US citizens subject to Russian personal sanctions:

Kamala Devi Harris - Vice President of the United States;
Kathleen Holland Hicks - First Deputy Secretary of Defense;
Christopher Watson Grady - Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff;
John Francis Kirby - Deputy Secretary of Defense, official representative of the Department of Defense;
Ronald Klain - White House Chief of Staff;
Evan Maureen Ryan - Secretary of the President's Cabinet, wife of Secretary of State E. Blinken;
Margaret Goodlander - Adviser to the Secretary of Justice, wife of Assistant to the President of the United States for National Security J. Sullivan;
Douglas Craig Emhoff - husband of Vice President C. Harris;
Robert Kagan - political scientist, husband of Senior Deputy Secretary of State W. Nuland;
Edward Price, State Department Spokesman;
Richard/Rachel Levine - Deputy Minister of Health;
Brian Thomas Moynihan - Chairman and CEO of Bank of America;
Mark Zuckerberg (Mark Elliot Zuckerberg) - co-founder and head of the board of directors of Meta (former Facebook);
Kathy Warden, President and CEO, Northrop Grumann Corporation;
Phebe Novakovic - President of General Dynamics;
Michael Petters - President of Huntington Ingalls Industries;
William Brown, President of L-3 Harris Technologies;
Wahid Nawabi, President of Aerovironment;
Roger Krone, President of Leidos;
Horacio Rozanski, President of Booz Allen Hamilton;
Eilee Drake, President, Aerojet Rocketdyne;
David Deptua - Head of Research Institute "Mitchell Institute of Airspace Studies";
Ryan Roslansky - Chief Executive Officer of the social network "LinkedIn";
George Stephanopoulos - host of the ABC television channel;
Matthew Kroenig - Deputy Director of the B. Scowcroft Center for Strategic Security NGO;
David Ignatius (David Reynolds Ignatius) - journalist, expert at the Wilson Center;
Edward Acevedo - Former member of the Illinois Legislature, expert at the Wilson Center;
Kevin Rothrock – expert at the Wilson Center, editor-in-chief of the English version of the Meduza media portal;
Bianna Vitalievna Golodryga is a Senior International Analyst at CNN.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2022 0:26 utc | 156

ACACTUAL | Apr 21 2022 16:35 utc | 27

We know a massive complex lies beneath the factory built after WWII. What we don't know is the number of levels, exits and most importantly contents."

The Russians do.

Posted by: ted001 | Apr 22 2022 0:35 utc | 157

So the media spookazoid Malcolm Nance is going to Ukraine to teach those Russkis a lesson. The next words after " no fear" are " oh, shit". Maria is hot. At least as far as this old guy thinks. Don't make them like that in America anymore. Peace everyone!

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Apr 22 2022 0:47 utc | 158

Just occurred to me there are dead people underground at Avozstal. Recently saw there were 500 wounded. Some are dead now. In theory work gangs could be organized and it would be possible to break up concrete and inter the bodies. Somehow I doubt that. Likely they haven’t even provided themselves proper tools for that and the concrete is likely damn thick. It is an interior space. It stinks. It stinks bad. And that body over there is looking at you in the dark. Not possible to live that way.

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 22 2022 0:51 utc | 159

A surrendered Kiev-regime lieutenant has come out and confirmed that regime forces massacred civilians. He saw other regime troops, from the the 501st battalion, kill eight to nine civilians just for walking through the streets of Mariupol. No one in the regime chain of command ever held anyone accountable for this obvious war crime.

Posted by: Nate | Apr 22 2022 0:55 utc | 160

"Phase 2" starting was not actually starting? There is a "reported" upswing in battle along what is a conventional front line. But "Phase 2" was bull up quite heavily. Maybe just the latest media shiny object and that has changed?

My guess (only a guess) is a real "phase 2" would be an artillery and rocket barrage that wouldn't have been seen since operation citadel. But if Ukraine forces in the east are sticking close to the cities and suburbs, and Russia is attempting to not wipe out cities, a mini-operation citadel won't be ordered. And I assume Ukraine forces are sticking to cities as anything battalion or above out in the wild will be too easy a target for Russian AirOps, artillery or S&D operations.

Posted by: Corsair66 | Apr 22 2022 0:57 utc | 161

Posted by: bottle | Apr 21 2022 18:56 utc | 61


Has apparent face validity. Any further studies?

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 22 2022 1:06 utc | 162

@ bottle 61

It's a symptom of the break down of society. When the broad society is undermined and gives way to individualism, be it social or economic, then small dedicated groups can and will assert themselves and take control of areas. In the US the neocons have only grown in their influence since the epic disaster of Iraq (A disaster only in terms of the public objectives of the US, for the neocons the destruction of the country was the point) and their control of US foreign policy is not symptomatic of society losing it's mind so much as it's nerve and being unable to coalesce (When it tries it's decried as 'populism' and seen as evil) and articulate it's interests.

People don't gather collectively anymore and every interpersonal encounter with strangers is charged with political correctness and the fear of one dealing with a zealot. Ordinary people have no room to, for lack of a better word, conspire.

It is only a small contingent of dedicated lunatics and individuals with interests so at odds with core society to be seen as insane who are able to push a narrative and control things even when the majority disagree with them. Those people are the silent majority alone together.

Posted by: Altai | Apr 22 2022 1:06 utc | 163

US Poseidon P-8 responsible for giving coordinates for Ukie strike on Moskva. Russian public is properly incensed and wants "payback".
Putin now has political coverfor nuclear attack on US if he desires. reports today that Russian government website warns citizens of NATO RETALIATORY Nuclear Attack. I know why retaliatory if not already attacked?

Posted by: steve | Apr 22 2022 1:09 utc | 164

oldhippie #157

Vivid and true.

It certainly is not going to end well over the next month.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2022 1:19 utc | 165

>>>Well the USA UK and the West has created a monster in Zelensky.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 21 2022 18:40 utc | 56<<<

Especially U.S. but also definitely Europe has become Twitter reactive. The governmental three and four letter agencies have become deft at controlling and shaping the initial media blasts/moral outrages. My hunch are these agencies are out of control and government figure heads (Joe Byden is an empty figurehead with or without the agencies). Unfortunately they largely react to fix the "issue" that is popular in that media moment. See how that works? And in that regard I think you are absolutely correct. They have created a monster in Zelensky. He was useful to start but slowly is becoming a liability. Certain countries hitched their wagons to a falling star (but not the USA). Look, unless USA/EU plan on direct involvement, Russia will win, full stop. And in the USA the public moral outrage memory is about 10 seconds. I believe in the USA there was and is little support for direct escalation. With the EU I suspect it is varying/going to be geographic on their support.
But the USA will, eventually and quickly, cast Zelensky to the side, be sure of that. Unfortunately so far I think it is the USA who is winning long game here. IMHO the EU has gotten themselves in a fix. The USA won't starve or go cold. Except for certain mfg elements, the USA largely has the materials to self sustain. But the EU will be knocking on the USA door. The USA may be generous in the beginning but it will eventually be like an addict-drug dealer relationship.
EU countries are sending their old weapons to Ukraine. Getting replaced by "free" USA equipment. Be sure of this, there is nothing free in this world. Not from USA, China or anywhere else.

Posted by: Corsair66 | Apr 22 2022 1:22 utc | 166

Archibungle @39. Lord Tannant I presume has see the torture, degradation of humanity and the gratuitous debasement and depravity of humanity perpetrated on the detainees in Quantanamo Bay and the Abu thatGhraib prison. The latter was so inhumane and gruesome the international tribunal hearing the evidence took the decision that the videos and photos and testimonies could not be made public because they were so traumatic. I take it that he fully approved of those. Azov put themselves in Avostal they have been offered surrender and refused.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 22 2022 1:23 utc | 167

Re:oldhippie @157,

The Avozstal bomb shelter was built to Soviet Union military standards, so there is (or was) an infirmity and a refrigerated morgue as well as multiple electric generators and fuel tanks for power. However, since the Azov troops are already complaining about lack of food, water and medicine I seriously doubt they were fully stocked before the siege began.

Bunkers are usually stocked with 1-2 months worth of rations, however I have no idea of many people it was supposed to support or how many people are actually in there (I've seen estimates of between 500-4000). But I dont think they will be able to last another 30 days

Posted by: Kadath | Apr 22 2022 1:25 utc | 168

Ukraine: Ready for special negotiations with Russia in Mariupol without conditions

What a bunch of wonderful guys. They want to talk, no conditions. We just want to save people.

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 22 2022 1:29 utc | 169

re: circumspect | Apr 22 2022 1:29 utc | 167

Some VIP in the bunker they are desperate to get out??

Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 22 2022 1:33 utc | 170

this guy sure is a good spokesman for cia - nato - usa.. c'mon.. you know who is saying this shit...

It is still possible to rescue Ukrainian fighters trapped in Mariupol, but Kiev will need foreign help to do so, President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Thursday.

Posted by: james | Apr 22 2022 2:04 utc | 171

All I know is the collective west is acting like a bunch of children and I suspect may soon be missing out on promising business opportunities.

Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Apr 22 2022 2:07 utc | 172

Every link I can find about the bunker appears to link back to a single Escobar piece. He’s a very good analyst and clearly has some excellent sources, but I think it needs at least a little more confirmation. Kadyrov talking about it being fortified could just be that the structure has been, well, fortified. Any facility of this size and age is going to be built substantially. All facilities of this type have significant below grade structures.

It’s an ore mill and steel plant. Much of the external piping is for the very large amounts of water used in the ore side of the process, including water conveyance being the standard method of transporting reclamation concentrate. Steam lines aren’t ever going to be outside because it then requires enclosing them to protect insulation. Same with protecting electric cabling. S as me with personnel moving through the site in areas. Balling plants and steel mills aren’t places pleasant to stroll through. And that place is so huge there must be bike/cart corridors which are easiest to put just below grade in places.

There can still be a bio lab down there, but they usually need to be clean and that rusty tint the place has in aerial photos is iron ore dust. I have a whole set of clothes only for the iron mine/mill. It doesn’t come out and it is everywhere. Really poor siting for a clean room lab.

Maybe it’s just a giant old factory. It’s no less scary from a technical military perspective, especially one which has any preparations built into it. Take it from someone who’s gotten half lost in plenty of places like this. Or maybe there is a Bond villain lair down there still stocked with Soviet canned goods for WWIII. (I’ve also found civil defense rations in US fallout shelters, didn’t eat the crackers though.)

Posted by: Lex | Apr 22 2022 2:29 utc | 173

Putin says that the steel plant will be locked down such that not even a fly escapes. Perhaps there should be some consideration to introducing a few more insects into the mix particularly the sort that would bite, sting and torment. I thought about maybe introducing some hungry bears, lions and tigers, but they might be a meat source if the holdouts are armed. Venomous snakes might work though.

Posted by: Brother Ray | Apr 22 2022 2:30 utc | 174


making the connections ; not to hard to see or figure out once you get the right perspective
"the civilized world" Indeed!!!
Kevork Almassian🇸🇾🇦🇲 @KevorkAlmassian

Ukraine's Azov is the Al-Nusra Front of Syria. And both the Nazis and the Al-Qaeda offshoot are getting support from the same powers.
10:23 AM · Apr 21, 2022

Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 22 2022 2:55 utc | 175

General Austin will be hosting a number of his counterparts for a Ukraine Defense Consultative Group at Ramstein Air Base on [April 26]," Kirby told reporters today. "The goal [is] to bring together stakeholders from all around the world for a series of meetings on the latest Ukraine defense needs and — and this is critically important — ensuring that Ukraine's enduring security and sovereignty over the long term is respected and developed." . .here

Meanwhle Austin's counterpart at State, Blinken, is doing nothing on diplomacy in Ukraine. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 22 2022 3:03 utc | 176

karlof1 @23

"Putin is offering those trapped life while Zelensky has told them to die. What sort of affect will that huge difference have on the globe's masses?"

Well said. The world is watching, and yearning for such a revolutionary worldview.

Posted by: Doug Hillman | Apr 22 2022 3:05 utc | 177

Russia is in increased danger of losing more generals.
from DefenseOne:
Kyiv Asked for a New Kamikaze Drone to Fight Russia. The Air Force Delivered Phoenix Ghost
At least 121 of the new drones are headed to Ukraine as part of the latest $800 million security package.
At a Pentagon briefing later Wednesday, press secretary John Kirby clarified that the Phoenix Ghost had already been developed by the Air Force, and in discussions with the Ukrainians, “we believed that this particular system would very nicely suit their needs, particularly in eastern Ukraine,” Kirby said. “We will continue to move that development in ways that are attuned to Ukrainian requirements.” . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 22 2022 3:07 utc | 178

My intuition based on various inputs tells me that what lies beneath the steel complex is something some would prefer to be obliterated. By not obliterating it, besides saving lives, war crimes committed there may be revealed and prosecuted. I am thinking of disappeared citizens of Mariupol vanished and other atrocities.

Not where my mind wants to be but where it demands I look.

Also, nobody has yet mentioned that children and women trafficked inevitably results from such turmoil, impoverishment and social destruction.

The ideological political elite who failed to prevent this war are deserving of a place in Dante’s hell realms.

The land of tears gave forth a blast of wind,
And fulminated a vermilion light,
Which overmastered in me every sense...

Posted by: suzan | Apr 22 2022 3:11 utc | 179

Trudeau most likely a son of Castro (really!).

Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 21 2022 21:51 utc | 102

As funny and popular as that meme is, it is false. Justin was 5 when the family first went to Cuba.

The "out-there" theory that Castro was in fact a CIA asset has more credibility. The basis was that they wanted a local example of the failure of Communism. Similarly, Haiti, the location of a successful slave rebellion, has remained in abject poverty ever since.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 22 2022 3:14 utc | 180

Re: Zaporizhzhia (Zaporizhia) Nuclear Power Plant status

Zaporizhzhia NPP is located on the south shore of the Kakhovka reservoir on the Dnieper river. Nearest city is Enerhodar. Zaporizhzhia City is at the northeastern edge of the reservoir, dozens of km from the Nuclear plant.

The Russian 22nd Army took control of the nuclear plant and Enerhodar City (where its workers live) in early March and is jointly guarding the plant and Enerhodar alongside plant and local guards. The 22nd Army didn't go as far as Zaporizhzhia City, which remains under Ukraine control. Wikipedia map of the area from March.

Last anyone has heard, only Unit 3 (of six total) was operating, but at reduced output. Two others were in standby mode (a day or two to bring online) and the remaining three were in cold shut down either for safety or maintenance and refueling. This is a degraded condition for the plant, as it was designed for a minimum of two units operating/generating power for redundancy. Communication with Ukraine and international regulators was restored weeks ago and the Ukraine staff work at the plant as usual, with employees coming and going on their normal shifts. The plant does not operate under the direct command of Russian troops - they're there to guard it from the crazy SBU Gestapo and assorted NATO Nazis.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Apr 22 2022 4:18 utc | 181

Imagine you are fed a daily diet of this

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 22 2022 4:28 utc | 182

Jacob Dreizin latest blog post... Includes video of Zelenskyy channeling Al Pacino as Tony Montana...

“You Wanna F*** With Me? Say Hello To My Little Friend!”
Published by dreizinreport on April 21, 2022

Some highlights...

Ukrainian defenses in the Donbass and south of Izium have been weakened in recent days by the liberal application of precision distance munitions, including the use of possibly as many as seven Iskander tactical ballistic missiles (perfectly accurate, supersonic delivery of up to 680kg of explosives) PER DAY against Ukrainian field targets (e.g. platoon-sized checkpoints or company base camps) in these regions...

In the below video, Oleksiy Arestovich, special advisor to the President, and the Ukraine’s de facto “propaganda minister”, who has been quoted and cited extensively as a source for the Anglo-American MSM, says (in Russian):

“The idea of the Ukraine, one of the main national ideas of the Ukraine, is to lie as much as possible to oneself and to others. Because if one tells the truth, everything will collapse, and it would be necessary to invent something else. That’s our fundamental imbalanced contradiction.”...

Meanwhile, Russia’s losses have been so “catastrophic” (Vicky Nuland said almost a month ago that it was 10,000 dead) that in about the last week, MOST OR ALL Rossgvardia units not deployed to Kherson or Zaporozhia…..

…..have been sent back to their home stations in Russia. This has been extensively documented over video, I may include some footage in my next post.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2022 4:29 utc | 183

I'm a bit surprised there had been little discussion of the likely effects of the sinking of the Moskva on US - Russian relations.

First, here is a machine translation of what the Russians believe actually occured:

‼️The Moskva cruiser: how it was.
Information from our sources.

The cruiser was near Odessa, closer to Romania. A year ago it was equipped with a new locator with phased array, which had the illumination range of 500 km. What was it there for?

The Ukrainian planes flew to the airfield in Romania and from there they took off in the direction of the sea, made a detour and came ashore from Odessa. Then they flew to Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye, striking the RF troops.

All the airfields near Nikolayev and Odessa were smashed. They could not understand – where from? That’s why they brought the “Moscow” with a powerful locator.

It began to shine, and from the airfields of Crimea and from near Donetsk our Su-35s began to intercept the Ukrainians. Thus nine MiGs and Sukhoys were shot down.

This was all calculated by NATO. And here is the result. First the cruiser was hit from the drone – the locators and antennas were broken. The cruiser shot down one, but was already half blinded.

Then the Ukrainians launched two cruise missiles from the shore. Guidance was carried out by the NATO Orion, which hovered over Romania. He also turned on the electronic warfare and illuminated the cruiser's air defense detection station.

The missiles went to the ship with the homing heads turned off so that it would not detect the radiation beam. Guidance was carried out by the NATO Orion, transmitting the exact coordinates of the ship to the missiles. The result - two hits, detonation of ammunition. The cruiser began to sink.

The cruiser "Moskva" (in addition to the main purpose - the destruction of KUG and AUG) is capable of providing long-range air defense of a ship strike group with the S-300F "Fort" complex for a detection range of air targets up to 300 km.

The cruiser was assigned the task of carrying out combat duty 100-120 km from Odessa in order to control the airspace within a radius of 250-300 km. That is, to ensure that the southern half of Moldova, the space from Izmail to Odessa and part of the territory of Romania (including the port of Constanta) is covered with its location field.

"Moskva" greatly interfered with the covert transfer of military aircraft (helicopters and planes) from the territory of Romania to the territory of Ukraine. The cruiser was monitored, NATO air reconnaissance worked on it.

The destruction of the flagship of the fleet was planned as a strategic task. Therefore, the operation of delivering anti-ship missiles to Odessa took place in strict secrecy and under the cover of electronic warfare.

As the "killer" of the cruiser, they chose RCC (anti-ship missile), but not "Neptune", as spread by Ukrainian propaganda, but RCC of the fifth generation NSM (Naval Strike Missile, range - 185 km, developed by Norway-USA). This type of RCC was chosen from the need to achieve a 100% result.

NSM is able to reach the target along the programmed route thanks to the INS with GPS correction, to independently find the target, flying up to it at a height of 3-5 meters. When reaching the target, the NSM maneuvers and puts electronic interference. A highly sensitive thermal imager is used as a homing system, which independently determines the most vulnerable spots of the target ship.

A stationary container installation, secretly delivered to Ukraine, was used as a launcher. Thus, after the damage to the Moskva cruiser, which led to its sinking, NATO reopened an air corridor for the transfer of aircraft to the airfields of the Chernivtsi, Transcarpathian and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.

After the destruction of the cruiser Moskva, the Black Sea Fleet, unfortunately, no longer has a single ship with a long-range anti-aircraft missile system.

But it is not all that bad.

A three-band Nebo-M radar is located in Crimea, which is capable of tracking all air targets at a distance of up to 600 km. This radar station controls the sky to the city of Chernivtsi.

The implication of a US Navy Orion performing fire control on the operation would seem to be an enormous escalation that would invite Russian retaliation against an American capital ship.


Posted by: David Sant | Apr 22 2022 4:36 utc | 184

Posted by: David Sant | Apr 22 2022 4:36 utc | 182
"The implication of a US Navy Orion performing fire control on the operation would seem to be an enormous escalation that would invite Russian retaliation against an American capital ship."

Which is why I'm skeptical of the account. At the very least, if that Orion was involved, it would have been shot down - or other such aircraft in the vicinity later would have been shot down by now. At the very least, the Russians would have issued some warning.

If the Ukrainians alone had done this, I would believe the Russians would keep it quiet because it would make them look bad. But if the US was involved in this in the way described, the Russians would indeed retaliate in some way after explicitly telling the US they would. Since we haven't seen it, I doubt the story.

Not to mention there is no source cited and no evidence provided that said source has any credibility or connections to some one who would know. There's a lot of detail involved which implies deep military intelligence sources at the very least.

Not buying it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2022 4:48 utc | 185

Now we have reports that imgrating birds been used as delivery platforms for viruses.

Posted by: Sapper | Apr 22 2022 5:01 utc | 186

Someone told me that the Ukies had shot over 7,000 javelins so far and their burn rate was a week's supply in 1 day. I don't know if that included the ones that the Rus intercept and destroy heading towards the front. Same person told me the U.S. started off with 29,000 javelins on the shelf. The Ukies might be throwing rocks at Russian armor before long but of course most Americans believe the MSM that Russia is short on tanks because so many have been valiantly taken out by the mighty javelins. But not a single western MSM reporter has gotten 25 klicks from Kiev or Lvov. They'll believe anything...

Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 22 2022 5:11 utc | 187

Any additional news on the mighty stud NATO ground commander? That story seems to have mostly died. Is he still hanging out with the Turks and manning in Linkin page?

Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 22 2022 5:14 utc | 188

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2022 4:48 utc | 183

“But if the US was involved in this in the way described, the Russians would indeed retaliate in some way after explicitly telling the US they would. “

Maybe. But maybe not. The Russian focus is now clearly on Stage 2. If Russia advertised (hypothetical) US involvement in the Moskva incident, they would HAVE to respond militarily. Domestic politics if nothing else would demand it. But responding militarily would be followed by another US/NATO response, and all of a sudden you are in an escalating tit for tat with US/NATO instead of clearing the Donbas, which was your primary aim.

I would imagine the US understands that Russia does not want to have to respond to US aggravation, which is why the US is playing around in gray areas—supplying plane parts, (but not planes); sharing intel, constantly renewing arms shipments, etc. Almost as if US is trying to determine how far they would need to go to actually provoke a response.

I mean, let us not kid ourselves. The SAS and Delta are in Ukraine and have been since February and I highly doubt that they are all just training Ukrainians. Everybody knows this, including Russia. But Russia has not drawn explicit attention to it or retaliated in any way, even though this action by elite special forces clearly constitutes the kind of involvement Russia warned against from the beginning.

I do not know what happened with the Moskva. I do think that the fire story is a bit suspect, even though perfectly possible. I am pretty sure that more is going on, in this incident, in Mariupol, and more broadly in US involvement in Ukraine, and Russia’s awareness of that involvement, than is being stated publicly.

Posted by: WJ | Apr 22 2022 5:17 utc | 189

I feel like this is John Shirley's sci fi cyberpunk dystopian
Eclypse trilogy come to life.

Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 22 2022 5:24 utc | 190

David Sant #182

Thank you for that info. Sounds plausible and I am not surprised at no discernable Russian response to date. Perhaps when the Odessa drive intensifies there may be excitement.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 22 2022 5:32 utc | 191

@ WJ | Apr 22 2022 5:17 utc | 187

great post wj... i share your viewpoint.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 22 2022 5:34 utc | 192

Does anyone have a link to the video of Zelensky meeting with Azov(?) folks along the line of contention some years back? It's the one where he's almost breaking down as he's trying to tell them that he's the president and that they need to do what he says: I recall him saying something about him being 40 years old (not sure what value that had to the conversation, perhaps to note that he wasn't a child?).

Posted by: Seer | Apr 22 2022 5:37 utc | 193

Altai | Apr 22 2022 1:06 utc | 161

"People don't gather collectively anymore and every interpersonal encounter with strangers is charged with political correctness and the fear of one dealing with a zealot. Ordinary people have no room to, for lack of a better word, conspire...Those people are the silent majority alone together."

This was a core goal of the Covidian terror-lockdown propaganda onslaught, to generate among the massified atoms an intense fear of the very physical presence of one's fellow man, and to constantly enforce and reinforce this fear through superstitious rituals like face diapers and hex spacing as well as compulsion through lockdowns. This was designed to put up great psychological, social and legal barriers against any form of political protest (except system-endorsed ones like the BLM/antifa riots) or the people simply coming out and seeing one another, seeing that they're not alone. (Of course the vast majority were perfectly willing and often ardent to obey this command to politically dissolve themselves as polities, as societies, as communities. Otherwise the plan couldn't have worked, just as the many previous attempts since the 1980s to get going a fake "pandemic" and mass conformist insanity over it had flopped.)

That's been for the secular political realm. In the religious realm, the fake-"Christian" establishment churches also carried out this assault. In pre-planned lockstep all the bad shepherds shackled their doors in defiance of scripture and in obedience to the command of Satan's worldly officials. They turned the flocks loose, telling each atom to go alone to his or her domicile and wait to be picked off by Satan. This was either the great apostasy itself or else a radical escalation of it. (And the vast majority among the decadent flocks were willing, often ardent to obey this command to dissolve themselves, just as almost all political groupings have been.)

Thus "Covid" dovetails with "wokeness" and now with Ukebot Russophobic war fever as the antisocial, anti-political cathexes of conformist mass insanity and the totalitarian smothering and pre-smothering of all further political expression and action.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Apr 22 2022 5:38 utc | 194

Now would be an excellent opportunity to test robotics capable of navigating something like the Azovstal works, even if it's just for reconnaissance.

"Fedor" the robot, for example, as shown in this CNN/Youtube video.

One version has flown to the ISS, successfully mated connectors in zero-G and returned alone in a Soyuz capsule, so a steelworks should not be impossible.

Posted by: Billb | Apr 22 2022 6:12 utc | 195

Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 22 2022 5:24 utc | 188

Indeed. Read any cyberpunk series or play any Cyberpunk game and the only thing missing today are the cyborg assassins. And the computer tech still sucks. Everything else has already happened.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2022 6:14 utc | 196

My point is to show that in most cases POTUS doesn't know what's being done behind his back or what was being done behind his predecessor's back, and that reality's been ongoing since 1945."

Important point. Some say America has been captured since 1913. Some point out that Civil War was instigated by Great Britain to prevent Union/North from developing manufacturing capability eliminating need of South to sell their staples to GB in return for manufactures. Some go back earlier to various struggles around Central Bank creation, presidential assassinations etc. Endless. Fact is that most democracies are phony and thus far more opaque than the monarchical systems they overthrew and yet whose architecture still they enjoy presiding in whilst most contemporary equivalents are crap.

Democracies being mainly corrupted we are headed for more authoritarian models or hybrids at least. Not necessarily a bad idea...

Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 22 2022 6:16 utc | 197

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 21 2022 21:48 utc | 100
Previous post referenced this one

Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 22 2022 6:17 utc | 198

Posted by: WJ | Apr 22 2022 5:17 utc | 187

It seems Russia is also playing it cool, i.e., not trying to escalate against the US. But a retaliation doesn't have to be extreme enough to provoke the US to escalate. I'm surprised Russia, for instance, hasn't done something to blind those US surveillance planes before this. If an Orion was involved in the Moskva incident, doing that might have prevented it. Or simply intercepting them in the air and forcing them back. After all, how many times have Russian jets intercepted NATO planes leading up to the war? Why not do it now, even over, say, Polish or Romanian air space? The Russian jets can always split back into Ukraine before either of those countries can send up fighters. Unless US fighters are escorting those surveillance planes? Are they?

Even if Russia is concentrating on Ukraine, it still seems to me that some sort of retaliation - or at least a verbal statement - would have been made, along the lines of the warning about transporting weapons.

There's still the question over who has the connections to release a story like this, and why. It clearly does not benefit the Russians to do that, even if you assume that they did so to warn the US that they are aware of what happened.

In addition, if that one photos of the Moskva is real, then there is no clear evidence of a missile strike, let alone two, while there is clear evidence of fire, if you read Nightvision's analysis at The Saker site.

it just doesn't add up. It's plausible, but not convincing without plenty more evidence. Still not buying it.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 22 2022 6:23 utc | 199

Here Scott Ritter explains in his two minuts video, why Javelin missiles are almost worthless:

Posted by: Mikkael | Apr 22 2022 6:23 utc | 200

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