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April 16, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-48

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

Posted by b on April 16, 2022 at 16:54 UTC | Permalink

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I doubt UK PM Boris Johnson gives a monkeys about captured British mercenaries.


"Oksana Marchenko, the wife of arrested Ukrainian opposition politician Viktor Medvedchuk, has released a video proposing to swap her husband for the two British fighters who reportedly surrendered to Russian and Donbass forces in Mariupol earlier this week.

Marchenko, a former TV presenter, recorded her message in both Russian and English and posted it on social media on Saturday, appealing to the families and friends of British nationals Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner.

“It is in your power to ask the prime minister of your country, Boris Johnson, to influence the Ukrainian leadership and achieve the release of Aiden and Shaun through their exchange [for] the Ukrainian opposition politician detained by the Kiev authorities – my husband Viktor Medvedchuk.” "

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 16 2022 17:09 utc | 1

It was reported last week that Ukrainian Nazi's were coming to the UK to train up on weapons, now its been revealed by a UK newspaper the SAS are in Ukraine training Ukrainian forces.


"British SAS troops have trained Ukrainian forces for the first time since the Russian military offensive began, in February, Ukrainian commanders told The Times on Friday.

Instructors from the UK were previously withdrawn from the country, two months ago, when NATO member states were expecting a Russian assault.

The British have now returned to teach locals how to use NLAWs, UK-supplied shoulder-fired anti-tank missile launchers."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 16 2022 17:15 utc | 2


for a synopsis of the Ukraine story:


Posted by: Conall Cearnach | Apr 16 2022 17:15 utc | 3

War is here to stay according to "strategists" in US (linked in b. rozhin's channel):

https://www.csis.org/analysis/ukraine-war-preparing-longer-term-outcome


It is far too early to predict the ultimate outcome of the Ukraine War, but it is all too clear that no peace settlement or ceasefire is likely to eliminate a long period of military tension between the U.S. – including NATO and its allies – and anything approaching President Putin’s future version of Russia, nor will any resolution of the current conflict negate the risk of new forms of war. It is equally clear that the U.S. and NATO need to act as quickly as possible to prepare for an intense period of military competition and must create a more secure deterrent and improve their capability to defend against Russia.
...
At best, developing and sustaining any coherent effort to deal with these issues will take at least five years to implement. It then will require constant updating on an annual basis as new types of technology, tactics, and command and control continue to reshape military needs and force plans. This, in turn, requires sustained political and popular support in the face of inflation and civil needs during a time when the momentum for military change created by the current fighting in Ukraine may have faded. In some ways, the only thing harder than crisis management is the lack of crisis management.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 16 2022 17:20 utc | 4

Latin American Journalist goes in search of Russia War Crimes in Mariupol and the Ukrainians tell him a whole different story https://youtu.be/eioxqtCp_9Y

Posted by: Dean Oneil | Apr 16 2022 17:20 utc | 5

Been watching some captured nazi clip, and I felt heartwarm knowing there are gulag-horror-level prisons in Russia this scum will be sent to.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 16 2022 17:29 utc | 7

Massive losses for the ukies:


Briefing by the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Igor Konashenkov as of 19.00 on April 16, 2022 on the progress of the special operation in Ukraine

▪️During the day, 15 enemy targets were hit by high-precision air-launched missiles.
Among them: in the areas of the settlements of BARVENKOVO, RUBEZHNOYE, POPASNAYA, NOVOZVANIVKA, KRASNOARMEYSK, SELIDOVO, NOVOBAKHMUTOVKA, six concentration sites of Ukrainian military equipment and seven strongholds of Ukrainian troops were destroyed.

As a result of the strikes, more than 320 Ukrainian servicemen were killed and wounded, 23 armored vehicles and seven vehicles for various purposes were destroyed.

Operational and tactical aviation destroyed 67 areas of concentration of personnel and Ukrainian military equipment during the day.

Missile forces hit 317 military facilities, including: 274 strong points and areas of concentration of enemy manpower, 24 control points and two field fuel storage facilities of Ukrainian troops.

A Ukrainian military transport plane carrying a large batch of weapons supplied to Ukraine by Western countries was shot down in the air by Russian air defense means near Odessa.

▪️Two Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down over the localities of LOZOVAYA and Veselaya.

Since the beginning of the special military operation, 134 aircraft, 460 unmanned aerial vehicles, 246 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,269 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 252 multiple rocket launchers, 987 field artillery and mortars, as well as 2,158 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.

The entire city territory of Mariupol has been completely cleared of militants of the Nazi formation "Azov", foreign mercenaries and Ukrainian troops.

The remnants of the Ukrainian group are currently completely blocked on the territory of the Azovstal Metallurgical Plant. Their only chance to save their lives is to voluntarily lay down their arms and surrender.

Let me remind you that in Mariupol at the time of its encirclement on March 11 there were: the 36th separate Marine Brigade, the 109th Territorial Defense Brigade, the 503rd separate marine battalion, a company of the 53rd separate mechanized brigade, units of the 17th anti-tank brigade, Nazi formations "Azov", "Aidar", "Right Sector", police and state border service units, as well as foreign mercenaries.

The total number of this group was about 8 thousand 100 people.

During the liberation of Mariupol, 1,464 Ukrainian servicemen have already surrendered. The number of surrenders is increasing daily. Including those who escaped from the territory of "Azovstal". According to their testimonies, the total number of Ukrainian servicemen, Nazis and foreign mercenaries who took refuge on Azovstal does not exceed 2.5 thousand people.

Thus, on April 16, in Mariupol alone, the losses of the Ukrainian group amounted to more than 4,000 people.

Therefore, Zelensky's recent statements to the Western media that the irretrievable losses of the Ukrainian military during the operation allegedly amount to 2.5-3 thousand are a common lie for him.

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has reliable data on the true losses of the Ukrainian army, National Guard and foreign mercenaries who arrived, which Zelensky is afraid to tell the people of Ukraine.

As of today, the irretrievable losses amount to 23,367 people.

We will soon publish some data from Ukrainian documents about our losses, revealing the place of death and the burial places of the dead.
#Russia #Ukraine
@rybar

Posted by: Boo | Apr 16 2022 17:36 utc | 8

Hi, I posted late last night in the previous thread so not sure it was seen. I'm just wondering if the UK PMs trouble with 3 fines and being asked to step down is related to either Moskva or the Times saying UK training Ukr troops on the ground?

Here is the link to news (which says UK is mad that their PM broke covid protocols...)

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/uk-prime-minister-boris-johnso

Posted by: Mia | Apr 16 2022 17:38 utc | 9

Cars that belonged to pro-russian demonstrators in Hannover set on fire by obvious racist pro-ukranian groups.
https://twitter.com/real__libyan/status/1515326231486648328

Posted by: Zanon | Apr 16 2022 17:40 utc | 10

More details of the ukie losses in Mariupol from Kots news:


At the time of his encirclement on March 11, there were: the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, the 109th Territorial Defense Brigade, the 503rd separate Marine battalion, a company of the 53rd separate mechanized brigade, units of the 17th anti-tank Brigade, Nazi formations "Azov", "Aidar", "Right Sector", police and state border service units, as well as foreign mercenaries.

The total number of this group was about 8 thousand 100 people.

During the liberation of Mariupol, 1,464 Ukrainian servicemen have already surrendered. The number of surrenders is increasing daily. Including those who escaped from the territory of "Azovstal".

According to their testimonies, the total number of Ukrainian servicemen, Nazis and foreign mercenaries who took refuge on Azovstal does not exceed 2.5 thousand people.

Thus, on April 16, in Mariupol alone, the losses of the Ukrainian group amounted to more than 4,000 people.

Today, according to the Ministry of Defense, Ukraine's irretrievable losses amount to 23,367 people.
@sashakots

Posted by: Boo | Apr 16 2022 17:40 utc | 11

For those who missed
John Helmer's:
Ukraine is smashed – This is how it will be repaired

[.] The Ukraine is a new thing. Depending on which region, language, religion, class, and ideology is displayed, it’s newness and oldness are disputable. New or old, however, the civil war in the Ukrainian east since 2014, Russia’s special military operation since February 24, and the US war — currently directed by US officers in the tunnels under the Azovstal factory — to destroy Russia in a fight to the last Ukrainian mean that the country cannot be put back together again the way it was. The Ukraine will have to be repaired and the damage replaced.

Kintsugi requires gold filling for the repaired cracks (lead image). This may not be quite the Ukrainian outcome the Americans, their German and British allies are insisting on, but they must contend with the Russian plan after the battlefield operations of Phase 2 are completed. This, according to a Moscow source who knows it, is that the Ukraine will be destroyed and preserved in that state. “They don’t need to patch it,” the source says, “they need to keep it broken.”

Colouring the map (lead image) in national colours is wishful thinking. The military manoeuvre maps published from both sides reveal tactical objectives with a lag time, but these don’t reveal strategic plans.

The Russian Defense Ministry, General Staff and their combination with President Vladimir Putin called the Stavka have not announced what the map will look like; Putin’s most recent statement indicates they are taking their time to decide. This timing, Putin said on Tuesday, “depends on the intensity of the military operations.” “A lot is said about the United States being ‘ready to fight against Russia to the last Ukrainian.’ This is being said there, and it is being said here, and it is true. It is the essence of the current events.”[.].

But after the fight to the last Ukrainian, what of the Ukraine?

http://johnhelmer.org/ukraine-is-smashed-this-is-how-it-will-be-repaired/

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 16 2022 17:49 utc | 12

On the financial side of our Hybrid Third World War there's the need to replace SWIFT which this article takes a look at and the CIPS system. Without saying so, it provides examples as to why initiating a new system will be difficult and take time and won't be as instantaneous as many of us would desire.

Russia's depiction as a bear is apt since bears aren't extremely agile, and on the economic/trade aspect of this War has moved ponderously. It now ought to be clear that implementing rubles as the only means for purchasing Russian exports isn't an easy task, which is why only gas was first. Russia must continue to run the sort of trade balance is did for the 1st Q for it to fuel its import substitution plans and other National Goals. Now that the ruble is needed internationally and its trade has increased on forex exchanges, it will become easier to add other commodities to the ruble only list, while other currency swaps are designed to aid friendly nations in their purchase of Russian goods--recall the ruble only at present only applies to unfriendly nations. And what most barflies including me await is the need for the Outlaw US Empire to pay for its Russian imports exclusively with rubles--no dollars allowed. Also, I'll add yet again that this war isn't going to end soon, and it will escalate. The how of escalation is currently unknown, but ought to be seen as a given with NATO attempting to pump Ukraine with weapons for troops it doesn't have.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 17:56 utc | 13

….At the time of his encirclement on March 11, there were: the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, the 109th Territorial Defense Brigade, the 503rd separate Marine battalion, a company of the 53rd separate mechanized brigade, units of the 17th anti-tank Brigade, Nazi formations "Azov", "Aidar", "Right Sector", police and state border service units, as well as foreign mercenaries.
The total number of this group was about 8 thousand 100 people…..

Some color;

36th marine Brigade - Kiev‘s order of battle is unclear but shows only 1 brigade off Naval Infantry. Unlikely that the entire 36th was in Mariupol, likely 1 battalion of the 36th in Mariupol and the other 2 Battalions in Odessa

109th Territorial - Volksturm

503rd Marine Battalion - confusing because the 503rd is part of a Mechanized Battalion rather than Naval Infantry.

17th anti-Tank Brigade (units) - likely part of a anti-Tank battalion and part of whatever Mech Brigade the 503 belong to.

Azov etc - there is very little detail on these units anywhere. The combat formations of the Azov are often lumped with the political formations (police)

NATO and Mercs - here is where is gets interesting. My guess is there are a whole lot more (ex) NATO troops than we think. Betcha 500 -1,000

Total Kiev forces at start of Mariupol siege - guessing that perhaps as many as 20,000 Kiev loyal combatants were trapped in Mariupol. Of those 20,000 maybe only 5,000 or so were regular military combat troops.

Just my educated guesses


Posted by: Exile | Apr 16 2022 17:58 utc | 14

Primero Rusia, después China, después el resto del mundo, ya tenemos el mega imperio mundial Yankee. Después de varios decenios el imperio se resquebraja y vuelve el nuevo feudalismo terráqueo. ¿para que entonces estás guerras?

Posted by: Felipe | Apr 16 2022 18:04 utc | 15

Andrey Sushentsov: There is still room for compromise between Russia and the West
https://www.rt.com/russia/553913-ukrainian-crisis-stress-test-globalisation/

I don't see anything about "room for compromise between Russia and the West" in the article.

The original article is from the Valdia Club with a different title, which is linked from the RT article:

The Ukrainian Crisis as a Stress Test for Globalisation: Andrey Sushentsov
https://valdaiclub.com/a/highlights/the-ukrainian-crisis-as-a-stress-test/

Any idea why would RT make up such a demoralizing new title?

Posted by: ETA | Apr 16 2022 18:09 utc | 16

RT links still block comments. RT has an item about the continuing woes of the F-35 that will put smiles on some faces.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:10 utc | 17

https://www.rt.com/news/553992-navy-commander-fired-f35/

It seems to be OK for me.

Posted by: ETA | Apr 16 2022 18:12 utc | 18

Above - this is the equivalent of GESTAPO * in times of WW2 in Europe

Posted by: BB Rad | Apr 16 2022 18:12 utc | 19

Very odd that ETA's comment @16 worked while mine @17 was initially blocked forcing me to remove the hyperlink.

In answer to ETA's question, I'll opine that it's a related to the executive editor's politics that Martyanov has ripped her for on numerous occasions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:14 utc | 20

Posted by: Boo | Apr 16 2022 17:20 utc | 4

There will be meetings to discuss committee formations and schedule more meetings to schedule further meetings. Meanwhile Russia will keep building tanks and pipelines heading east. The things that won’t be discussed in these meetings are the fundamental issue of deindustrialization and the long lead time to rebuild it. China can build a hospital in under a week. The US requires months to resurface a few miles of roads. As someone who works adjacent to major construction and infrastructure projects, who’s hired to execute our deindustrialization and who knows that hiring a competent welder in the US is next to impossible. We’re cooked. The meetings are just to avoid the reality we built for ourselves.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 17:56 utc | 13

Bears only look ponderous because nothing frightens them. They will mostly amble away from confrontation. But when needed or angry, they’re 300-1000 lbs that can run 35 mph, swim, climb trees and defeat any dweller of the forest without a high powered rifle. Even with a rifle, against an angry bear the odds are 50/50. Which is why bear hunters make bait piles and wait far off to fire. Even then, usually a pack of dogs is used to corner the bear in a manner that allows the hunter to fire against it while it’s distracted by the dogs. And losing a dog or two in a bear hunt is not unexpected.

Posted by: Lex | Apr 16 2022 18:16 utc | 21

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:14 utc | 20

I have to use Opera to post, the Post button on Firefox which is my default browser does not work.

Posted by: ETA | Apr 16 2022 18:20 utc | 22

I apologise if I'm not using the mechanics correctly but I posted this on April 15 thread and feel it may be left behind, so I'm re-posting it today: 313 is yesterday's thread.
bevin @ 313
I use the word "bulwark" merely because that is the word Mearsheimer uses. I don't necessarily agree. But you describe the US interest in Ukraine in terms of a "launch pad." The logical next question then is: a launch pad for "what?" I don't believe a launch pad for general US mischief throughout the European/Mediterranean region - they have lots of those - so, again, why Ukraine? What is the rationale? I do not accept merely US bullying hubris (although that's always part of it), and I do not accept merely "neverending wars to continue the influence and economic well-being of the MICIMATT(although that,too, is always a part of it). If not wholly encompassed by those things, then maybe we could expand the analysis. I would appreciate input from contributors on MofA. I believe the answer may be broader than we are all talking about. I have my own theory, but I would really like responses from "Moonies" to get the thinking going.

Posted by: hoggy | Apr 16 2022 18:24 utc | 23

Just to be clear, my original question was, "Why does the US need a bulwark in Ukraine?"

Posted by: hoggy | Apr 16 2022 18:28 utc | 24

Sorry I posted this in the old thread a few mins ago but here it is again:

Call me crazy but I believe there is a plan to this colossal madness. Somewhere someplace deep in the bowels of the kleptocrats they have decided that this planet is just too small and the peasants just too many to control. They actually want to bring about Ragnarok and seed a new planet with themselves and their own progenitors. Thin the breed and those who remain in less nuclear afflicted zones like South America, South-East Asia and in Africa will be easily defeated as they have no hi tech weapons. It will be the 16th century repeating itself all over again
From their Caviar and Perrier water laden bunkers and specially kitted subs, they will emerge after 6 months to lord it over over those who may have survived Bars of gold in stock and weapons of terror in hand. They dont care about anyone by themselves. Can you imagine a new human race seeded by the likes of Bojo, Trudeau and Biden jnr? the poorest of source material you could ever imagine.

Posted by: DaVinci | Apr 16 2022 18:30 utc | 25

Zakharova's interview with RT about the biolabs and Germany's involvement. Do take note of the policy continuity she describes from Merkel to Scholz.

I think it quite probable that this conflict won't end until Germany's liberated--again--as well as Brussels. IMO, barflies must seriously contemplate that probability since Germany once again is being turned into an Anti-Russia in a manner similar to Ukraine.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:31 utc | 26

Boo @ 8
A Ukrainian military transport plane carrying a large batch of weapons supplied to Ukraine by Western countries was shot down in the air by Russian air defense means near Odessa.

Interesting. Someone posted on another thread he saw a Euro fighter heading for Odessa and switching off its squawk just before crossing the border. Russia probably has 24/7 high level patrols over the country. Things are getting serious.

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 16 2022 18:34 utc | 27

@ETA (22)

The POST-button frequently does not work (inactive); adding an extra newline at the end of your text (optionally followed by a backspace) in 100% of the cases activates the button.

Posted by: bjd | Apr 16 2022 18:37 utc | 28

Lex @21--

Are you familiar with the Kodiak Bear? I am. My point was bears take awhile to get organized. We have smaller bears here in Oregon that occasionally stroll thorough our housing development.

ETA @22--

Where are you located geographically?

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:39 utc | 29

@ Lex | Apr 16 2022 18:16 utc | 21

i share your perspective on bears.. thanks... they are a lot more agile and quick then people realize! i have yet to see one this year, but last year i saw a few out in the wilds.. i wouldn't want to go hunting for one... one time in my 20's i ate some bear meat, from a bear cooked in a pit up in lytton b.c. that was a long time ago..

@ hoggy | Apr 16 2022 18:28 utc | 24 - question - "Just a simple question: why does the US need a bulwark in Ukraine?"

my quick take.... why does the usa have to dominate financially and militarily?? why does nato exist and of what purpose is it for the usa? does it help wall st to make war and sell a lot of armaments? all these questions are related to your question... the fact is, russia has not been allowed to develop and interact with its neighbours in europe, or only according to the usa-uk concept of what is considered acceptable, which is basically to bow down and surrender... to these so called leaders of the west, they are shocked that russia is not bowing down and surrendering! why the need for nato? ask yourself that question... according to the chinese, it should have been shut down in the early 90's... i agree with their perspective... nato is just a tool for western imperialism, held up by a bunch of easily manipulated politicians in europe... china and russia have different ideas on the shape of the world in the 22nd century..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 18:39 utc | 30

Republic of Scotland (1)

It may well be Section E which is an SAS ‚Sabre‘ operated by MI6 separate from SAS in Hereford. Either way since UK is not technically at war with Russia these are deniable assets without Geneva protections.

Funny how the third wife of Medvedchuk knows about the mercs but she is a TV personality so must know Zel‘d puppetmasters too

I doubt SAS men will ever see light of day. They let them go in 2015 and gained Minsk I and II as reward and watched them dissolve. They let them go in Syria and gained zilch

These were not doing recce but training and doctrine

Now about IDF training Azov for Kolomoisky

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 16 2022 18:40 utc | 31

circumspect @27--

"Things" have been "serious" for years. What's happened is the seriousness is now very overt as a tag-team of nations has finally stood up to the Outlaw US Empire's rapaciousness hegemony.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:43 utc | 32

"All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts. . .". .William Shakespeare
..from TheGuardian
How Zelenskiy’s team of TV writers helps his victory message hit home
Influences from Churchill to Tolkien are woven in to the Ukrainian president’s compelling video addresses . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 16 2022 18:44 utc | 33

https://t.me/asbmil/1082
Russian air defense units have shot down a military transport plane carrying Western arms outside of Odessa. Presumably Ukrainian Air Force

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 16 2022 18:48 utc | 34

IMO, reducing the size of "the herd" is the goal, not eliminating them. As has been expressed before; " The comfort of the rich, depends on an abundance of the poor."

Control and dominance of the working classes is as old as humanity..

Posted by: vetinLA | Apr 16 2022 18:52 utc | 35

April 7: Scholz holds up German tank deliveries to Ukraine. . .German chancellor holds off on ramping up military aid despite pressure from coalition partners. . .would involve about 100 tanks . . .Scholz argues Germany should first reach a common position with Western allies on the subject before delivering such heavy military equipment

April 15: US Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III spoke with German Minister of Defense Christine Lambrecht to thank Germany for its continued strong commitment to providing critical defensive capabilities to Ukraine alongside other NATO Allies and partners.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 16 2022 18:54 utc | 36

I should note that Putin held two important meetings that we can read via mechanical translation. Meeting on Arctic Zone Development and Meeting about the oil and gas sector. A Security Council meeting was held, but only the topic--humanitarian policy--and no substance was provided.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:58 utc | 37

Sometimes the "post" button is not active until I add a carriage return to the last line of the post.

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 16 2022 18:58 utc | 38

james @ 30; Great answer to Hoggy's question. Right on point..

Posted by: vetinLA | Apr 16 2022 19:03 utc | 39

Calling Ukraine a launch pad or bulwark are just other terms for proxy places and people.

So then hoggy | Apr 16 2022 18:28 utc | 24 asks why does this proxy exist and I keep claiming that the structure of the Western form of social organization is the core focus. This form of social organization has at its core the pig of global private finance colored with the sham lipstick of freedom and democracy covering private property and unfettered inheritance to create a cult of world "ownership" and control.

Russia and China are challenging the Western form of social organization and its bullying/barbarous ways. Will it end our species or will humanity evolve?

I am excited to see this conflict happen in what is left of my lifetime and hope for the masses over the cult.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 16 2022 19:03 utc | 40

Norwegian | Apr 16 2022 18:48 utc | 34

I assume that up until now, The Russian air defenses were concentrated over advancing troop formations. They presumably have now extended their coverage over all Ukraine. (To add to offensive capabilities - kalibrs)

There was a note a few days ago about some S-400 (or 300+?) being moved into DPR. They will have enough range, and could be moved along the coast if necessary.

From combining those two items I expect that Odessa will NOT remain Ukrainian in any future settlement. Which is logical, as leaving a large US base in a key port on the Black Sea is asking for trouble.

Posted by: Stonebird | Apr 16 2022 19:18 utc | 41

hoggy | Apr 16 2022 18:28 utc | 24
a nation of cowards and fantasists can't be barricaded enough against reality? Europe and the Atlantic aren't enough of a bulwark. Canada must be thrown on the pile too.

don't tell Americans there's a gigantic ocean between them and China (or ask them to complete this analogy: China is to Taiwan as Russia is to...?). when they hear Taiwan, they think of Mexican rapists and drug dealers scrambling over or under Trump's tarpaulin border wall to violate their obese diabetic wives and steal their jobs saying, "Hi, how can I make you smile today?" at Mcdonald's or Walmart.

easter can't get here quick enough. i can break my lenten fast from booze and get hammered. oh darn, no russian vodka around. horrible, horrible, sobriety! i'm being de-russified.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 16 2022 19:28 utc | 42

oh darn, no russian vodka around. horrible, horrible, sobriety! i'm being de-russified.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 16 2022 19:28 utc | 42

Same here, but I asked an employee to retrieve a bottle of Russian vodka for me at the store shortly after Greg Abbott declared Texas to be a Russia-free Zone. There was a $4 discount as well, which I suppose is a means of more quickly liquidating inventory that is hidden from view.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 19:38 utc | 43

Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 19:38 utc | 43
i can't tell the difference between PBR, Bud and Lonestar (I love them all), wine in a box or classier wine in a can, but somehow, thanks to laws like Texas's, my body now instinctively rejects Russian vodka. and beets.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 16 2022 19:46 utc | 44

@43 Will they be renaming Odessa?

Posted by: dh | Apr 16 2022 19:50 utc | 45

WARNNG: Escalation alerts. Its highly likely US supplied or made missiles sunk Moscow cruiser. Its highly likely raids into Russia are run by USA. Escalation has increased significantly this Easter. Russia has privatly warned USA about the unpredictable consequences of supplying sensitive weapons. Leaked by USA? India threatened, dropped Oil deal. Death threats most likely to Modi and his family. Germany to supply arms. USA to keep Russian financial reserves. Chances of nuclear war.....70%

Posted by: Dom | Apr 16 2022 19:55 utc | 46

In Ukrainian, it's Odesa with one "s", whereas in Russian it's Odessa with two "s"es.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 16 2022 19:55 utc | 47

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 16 2022 19:46 utc | 44

The main way I can tell the difference between all that stuff is in how I feel the following morning. Red wine and dark rum in particular are rough, so I tend to avoid them.

I haven't kept up on the situation, but at the time of the 'ban' or 'boycott' announced by Abbott, it wasn't official law; more of a stupid symbolic gesture with serious economic downside for those stores selling any significant amount of Russian made products. Hmmm...kind of like what's happening to the EU on a smaller scale.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 19:56 utc | 48

In the linked article, Gwynne Dyer says Russian troops are likely to get bogged down during the next 6 weeks of "rasputitsa" (season of rain and mud) rather than pull off a victory during that time.
Russia’s second Ukraine offensive

Posted by: Mark Mosby | Apr 16 2022 20:00 utc | 49

Karlof1,
Here on the shores of superior we don’t get Kodiaks of course. Not even grizzlies. But one or two end up in the neighborhood every year. I agree that they take their time and don’t care much. I didn’t take it as you knowing nothing bears either. Just an addition for those who don’t know anything of bears. It’s funny that Russia is represented by the bear, and that it would be so accurate.

Posted by: hoggy | Apr 16 2022 18:24 utc | 23

It’s a bunch of imperial great game bullshit. On “the grand chessboard” Ukraine is key to Russia’s overall strength and also it’s supposed weak point. It is the logical entrance point for a mass invasion of Russia, but that’s not really a threat anymore since NATO doesn’t own enough tanks to launch one. The one real strategic aspect is the Black Sea. Peter the great’s big addition to Russian history was adding a port on the Baltic. Catherine’s was adding a warm water port on the Black Sea, which gives access to the Mediterranean. The US’s push on Syria was partly about denying Russia access to Tartarus, which is important because as we’ve seen, in conflict the Montreux convention shuts down access to the Black Sea with enforcement by NATO member Turkey. And it’s not like you can sneak through the Bosporus.

The US is unwilling or incapable of sharing the planet, so it needs bulwarks and threatening vantage points everywhere. Afghanistan wasn’t about 9/11, it was a perfect place from which to threaten and destabilize Russia, China and Iran.

Posted by: Lex | Apr 16 2022 20:01 utc | 50

Posted by: Dom | Apr 16 2022 19:55 utc | 46

What are the bases of these reports? In particular the reports of actual US citizens taking place in direct combat and the situation in India with Modi.

For example, my search here doesn't return any results related to India dropping an oil deal. Well, just about some threats from Biden that Russian oil won't be "good" for India...I think India will make its own decisions.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:01 utc | 51

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:01 utc | 51 in response to Dom...

Sorry I meant direct combat INSIDE Russia.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:03 utc | 52

Sometimes the Mighty Wurlitzer unintentionally admits the truth?

Russian soldiers digging up bodies?

Would that make any sense if the Russian military had buried them in the first place or were these "traitors" or "sympathizers" liquidated by Ukrainian military and brown shirt factions?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:06 utc | 53

hoggy@24
Operation Barbarossa 2.0

Posted by: NOBTS | Apr 16 2022 20:07 utc | 54

So many shills nowadays talking about going nuklear - going to ask who wrote this script?
Or maybe someone is afraid of the 10k+ pows who are going on a rampage later? :D

Posted by: Macpott | Apr 16 2022 20:07 utc | 55

Since I have Type 2 diabetes, I depend on red wine to keep my blood sugar down.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 16 2022 20:08 utc | 56

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 16 2022 18:48 utc

Great news! So I was right, Odessa might indeed be the den of USNATO iniquity. Not satisfied tho'. I hope there's someone checking what's going in and out of its port and railways?

Posted by: Circe | Apr 16 2022 20:10 utc | 57

james@ 30 vetinLA@ 39 psychohistorian@ 40 Lex@ 50
Thanks for replies. You're touching on some of it, but you're not going far enough. Sorry if I appear obtuse, but I believe there is a much deeper and darker agenda at work of which a continuing contest draining Russia is a part. Let me give a couple of clues which might help. Do any of you think this war is just a haphazard event which has occured because of Russia's demands and the Biden Administration's incompetent failure to appreciate the true depth of Russia's security fears, or do any of you think that nothing actually happens at this level of geopolitical event that is not the result of the most detailed planning and review over time with a seriously considered purpose. Here's a clue: think Rand. If we accept a proposition this war did not occur by happenstance because Biden happens to be senile and Blinken happens to be incompetent (both may be true but not foreseeable) we have to ask, what is the strategic plan. What are its suppositions. What is its objective. Why does it exist.
I'm hoping to lead some thinking so that, if we eventually arrive at the same general spot, it will mean my theory is not completely looney and its implications will be clear. Here's another clue: US Drought Monitor map.

Posted by: hoggy | Apr 16 2022 20:14 utc | 58

@ hoggy | Apr 16 2022 20:14 utc | 58

no need to be obtuse and play a game of charades with the posters at moa..on the surface - this is how i read your post... i don't think this war is, or was happenstance.. back in 2014 the question on many peoples minds was - is the shit going to hit the fan now with russia - usa ( nato and puppies) or will it happen in syria? as it turned out - it basically got played out in syria as russia wasn't able to do what it is able to do now....

why not do us a favour and tell us what you think, rather then what you are doing here? thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 20:19 utc | 59

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 18:31 utc | 26

I never expected to see the name of Reims Island outside of books on crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Nazis in World War II. Yet, not only is Friedrich Loeffler Institute (Greifswald-Riems Island) based there or connected in some way, but it is involved in the US-Ukraine research on deadly biological agents. It is one of four German institutes/universities involved in this type of research. Is this a case of those who forget history are doomed to repeat it?

I wondered why the Director of German Intelligence was in Kiev in the early days of the special operation. Was his mission to ensure that evidence was hidden/destroyed/extracted?

Posted by: cirsium | Apr 16 2022 20:25 utc | 60

why not do us a favour and tell us what you think, rather then what you are doing here? thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 20:19 utc | 59

I, too, would appreciate it if hoggy would just come out and say it so as to get the ball rolling. I'll admit I'm a bit intrigued by what this theory might be and what events in Ukraine could possibly have to do with droughts in the US.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:25 utc | 61

hoggy asks:

Do any of you think this war is just a haphazard event which has occured because of Russia's demands and the Biden Administration's incompetent failure to appreciate the true depth of Russia's security fears, or do any of you think that nothing actually happens at this level of geopolitical event that is not the result of the most detailed planning and review over time with a seriously considered purpose. Here's a clue: think Rand.

If you're referring to the Rand report that was released sometime around 2019 and detailed a plan to draw Russia into a quagmire, I think it's pretty straightforward. And if you read the writings of Jaques Baud and Dr. Pat Walsh along with Mearshimer and others that have been linked and discussed here at length, all the background can be soused out and analyzed. I think the issue confronting anyone in the West (and probably w/in Russia or China) is that the state-affiliated media and social media have done their utmost to scrub any of the inconvenient history and facts on the ground from the 'accepted' or 'acceptable' narrative(s).

Key to my own understanding of why Russia decided to invade is the recent publication of what look to be official Ukrainian plans to initiate a major offensive on Donbas within weeks of Russia's (at the time) 'unexpected' invasion. But there are many other things that came into play as outlined by the aforementioned authors - that - when you do a deep dive, paint a picture much different than the one our narrative managers are attempting to install as the 'official' and 'correct' history of Russian "aggression" and of Ukraine post-2004 (or 2014) in general.

What did you have in mind?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:33 utc | 62

Ministry of Defense: in Liman, Nationalists torture people for pro-Russian views (RIA Novosti, April 15, 2022 — in Russian)

In the city of Liman, Kramatorsk District, Ukrainian Nationalists have detained and are torturing more than 800 people who are suspected of being loyal to Russia, said Colonel-General Mikhail Mizintsev, head of the National Defense Control Center.

According to him, from April 11 to April 15, the militants of the Nationalist battalions conducted door-to-door searches in the city in order to identify pro-Russian views or signs of assistance to the DPR formations among local residents.

“All the suspects (surnames, first names, patronymics of 837 people have been reliably established) have been detained, are currently subjected to brutal torture, and threatened with physical violence against their relatives,” the General said.

He added that during the raids, the militants took valuable property and food from people, allegedly for the needs of territorial defense.

Posted by: S | Apr 16 2022 20:49 utc | 63

Hoggy @ 23, 24:

Post-Soviet Ukraine was originally as much an EU target of manipulation as it was of the US and NATO. Recall that Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and his govt was destabilized and overthrown by the Maidan uprising over his decision in Nov 2013 to delay signing an economic agreement with the EU that would have compelled Ukraine to adhere to EU standards and regulations (thus apparently compelling Ukraine among other things to rip up its entire railway line network and scrap its railway stock to change from Russian gauge to EU standards - even though Finland, an EU member, still uses Russian gauge) with NO guarantee that Ukraine would ever join the EU. What also stayed Yanukovych's pen was the realisation or warnings from his own officials or Moscow that an agreement with the EU would mean that EU goods in transit thru Ukraine to Russia would be subjected to Russian tariffs, effectively stopping such transit, and Ukraine would also have to pay higher prices for Russian energy.

The EU was hoping at the time to use Ukraine as its own experiment to continue sending or smuggling EU products into Russia and bypassing Russian controls (by having Ukraine repackage or remake EU products as Ukrainian products perhaps) at a time when Russia was not yet self-sufficient.

The US had its own designs on Ukraine as (before April 2014) Crimea was still part of the country. Crimea hosts a military naval base. The ultimate objective was to expel the Russian Black Sea fleet from Sevastopol in Crimea and remake it into a US naval base that could command and surveil the entire Black Sea region. Some of us MoA barflies have seen US Navy plans (even a tender) to refurbish a school for naval officers' children in Sevastopol to US standards. Surveiling the Black Sea region would mean monitoring not only activity near the Bosporus but also activity near Abkhazia (breakaway region of Georgia dependent on Russian support). The Caspian Sea with its oil deposits and access to Central Asia and northern Iran is not far from the eastern Black Sea area. A US naval base in Crimea would be the bulwark for US military expansion into the Caucasus and Central Asia, and turn Iran into a target for further destabilization and invasion.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 16 2022 21:00 utc | 64

I came across this 'RAND corporation' study requested by the US government detailing different ways to (over) extend Russia. The full paper counts 354 pages. It is available for download at the RAND corporation's website.

I'll copy/paste a selection of the (relevant) chapters from the index below to give a quick overview of the various options (and the expected effects/reactions by Russia) to (over) extend Russia that the study details.
source: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

"CHAPTER THREE
Economic Measures
Recent Russian Economic Performance
Measure 1: Hinder Petroleum Exports
Measure 2: Reduce Natural Gas Exports and Hinder Pipeline Expansions
Measure 3: Impose Sanctions
Measure 4: Enhance Russian Brain Drain

CHAPTER FOUR
Geopolitical Measures
Measure 1: Provide Lethal Aid to Ukraine
Measure 2: Increase Support to the Syrian Rebels
Measure 3: Promote Regime Change in Belarus
Measure 4: Exploit Tensions in the South Caucasus
Measure 5: Reduce Russian Influence in Central Asia
Measure 6: Challenge Russian Presence in Moldova

CHAPTER FIVE
5.1 Ideological and Informational Measures
5.2 Pathways for Influence Operations
5.3 Current Status of Russian Regime Legitimacy
5.4 Russian Domestic Environment
5.5 Policy Measures to Diminish Domestic and Foreign Support for the Russian Regime

CHAPTER SIX
Air and Space Measures
Measure 1: Change Air and Space Force Posture and Operations
Measure 2: Increase Aerospace Research and Development
Measure 3: Increase Air and Missile Components of the Nuclear Triad

CHAPTER SEVEN
Maritime Measures
Measure 1: Increase U.S. and Allied Naval Force Posture and Presence
Measure 2: Increase Naval Research and Development Efforts
Measure 3: Shift Nuclear Posture Toward SSBNs
Measure 4: Check the Black Sea Buildup

CHAPTER EIGHT
Land and Multi-domain Measures
Measure 1: Increase U.S. and NATO Land Forces in Europe
Measure 2: Increase NATO Exercises in Europe
Measure 3: Withdraw from the INF Treaty
Measure 4: Invest in New Capabilities to Manipulate Russian Risk Perceptions"

Posted by: GoverntheMente | Apr 16 2022 21:03 utc | 65

Posted by: S | Apr 16 2022 20:49 utc | 63

More evidence that the Ukrainians were the ones behind the Kramatorsk train station bombing, the Ukrainians don't seem to view the people of this region as their people.

Posted by: Quiet Rebel | Apr 16 2022 21:05 utc | 66

When I was searching for Moon of Alabama, I saw a result from Lawfare in the search results. If b wasn't already aware.

Posted by: Quiet Rebel | Apr 16 2022 21:07 utc | 67

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 20:33 utc | 62

great response... my thoughts as well.. thanks..

Jen | Apr 16 2022 21:00 utc | 64

ditto!~ great response... thanks for sharing those more arcane notes for whoever hasn't been following this as closely as the longer term posters at moa.. thanks jen..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 21:22 utc | 68

Posted by: hoggy | Apr 16 2022 20:14 utc | 58

Yes and no. The US fell into the imperial trap (they only ever end one way) when it didn’t need to because it has everything it needs. That was a combination of military men not wanting the gravy train to end, paranoia about communism and the US intelligence agencies being originally formed and manned by Wall Street bankers. All three of those converge via the last and with Dimitrov’s definition of fascism as the political arm of finance capitalism. And it got played by the English (the true source of everything bad in the modern world, not the Jews) to takeover the crumbling British empire which the British conveniently mined with a century’s worth of trouble from how they drew the map before setting the empire in the US’s lap.

But the pilots of American empire were always ad hoc, lacked continuity of action and ignored the potential effects of action. Lots of grand plans to rule the world that are victims of the conceit that chess is a one player game. The biggest problem being that the American political system shielded them from responsibility for their failures. They became further and further divorced from reality, and in that context ideology is more important than any actual knowledge or skill. The US isn’t less evil than the 50’s-80’s. The difference is that since the 90’s there’s no real politik and until recently there was no check on US behavior. (With their conniving sidekicks in London.)

So now we have incompetent ideologues who believe it isn’t possible to check US power. The Rand report isn’t anything “new”, it’s just that there’s nobody to point out the problems with the plan. Biden’s not a tool in this. He was Obama’s “point man” for Ukraine. Nuland was his “point woman”. Mostly it’s just a banal tale of greed and power told by people who think they’re the smartest people in the world. Same as it ever was.

Posted by: Lex | Apr 16 2022 21:23 utc | 69

james, Jen, Lex in response to hoggy and myself...

Thanks for replying james and Jen and Lex offer exceptional further context to the situation.

That said, I am guessing where hoggy might be going with this is a larger theory or strategy involving not just Ukraine, the EU and Russia, but China and its own growing sphere of influence which is and has been for a while, in abutment to the USA hegemon's presence in Asia and Africa. Only now is China nearing full capability to threaten or - rather - challenge US military dominance. Perhaps even the pandemic is part of his theory as well, but I hope hoggy comes back and explains further. At this point I'm open to at least hearing out even "looney" theories...

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 21:29 utc | 70

In the linked article, Gwynne Dyer says Russian troops are likely to get bogged down during the next 6 weeks of "rasputitsa" (season of rain and mud) rather than pull off a victory during that time. Russia’s second Ukraine offensive

Posted by: Mark Mosby | Apr 16 2022 20:00 utc | 49

Please don't post links on "war" by politicos like Gwynn Dwyer. He still thinks Russia planned a siege of Kyiv, as opposed to a feint. People will think all Canadians are a clueless as he is.

Okay, I have to concede that point.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 16 2022 21:31 utc | 71

Riems Island? Erich Traub researched biowarfare for the Nazis and then the Soviets on Riems Island in the 1940s. In 1949, he was brought to the U.S. under Operation Paperclip, where he worked for NIH, Fort Detrick, and Plum Island. Eventually, he went back to Germany, where he continued his research, including for the U.S. military.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 16 2022 21:31 utc | 72

i think the thing about moa i so appreciate is actually having a conversation with others ! its unlike many other mediums of exchange on the net, and one i really value..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 21:32 utc | 73

Why do Americans who are striving to make ends meet every week give one hoot about Ukraine? Who every week more and more ordinary Americans are finding themselves homeless.

The psychopathic, lunatics in the leadership of the United States in hysteria and propaganda are leading the world to nuclear war. With every response, they intensify the likelihood of grave miscalculation. Yet in all the focus on Ukraine, the real threat of nuclear war is hardly mentioned. If the US does not prevent a nuclear war, nothing else matters. The is no greater responsibility to to avoid nuclear war. Yet the US leadership seems to be oblivious to the likelihood.

Thinking you are in the right is little consolation as you are being incinerated.

Posted by: Al | Apr 16 2022 21:35 utc | 74

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 16 2022 17:09 utc | 1

They have a list of 10 names of Ukronazis they will trade 500 ukie marines for, the SOBs who slit the throats and knee capped Russian POWs.

Posted by: Howdy.Modi | Apr 16 2022 21:44 utc | 75

Mostly it’s just a banal tale of greed and power told by people who think they’re the smartest people in the world. Same as it ever was.

Posted by: Lex | Apr 16 2022 21:23 utc | 69

Exactly this as it applies not only to the geopolitics at play over Ukraine, but in virtually every aspect of Western governance and accountability (or extreme lack thereof) from Wall Street to the City of London to the corrupt but adept at propaganda governments of the US, UK, French and other NATO members and NATO adjacent/aspirant countries (Israel, Ukraine, the Gulf Monarchies, Australia).

At this point, the US has stopped bothering to play the realpolitik card and since the 1990s w/ Yugoslavia, but increasingly more so with every subsequent non-UN sanctioned (at least not when launched) military invasion and assassination (Iran nuclear scientists, Soleimani) or coup, the West (really just the US and its lapdogs) has just become more and more brazen in asserting itself, often in contravention to international law (a concept the US doesn't even pretend to support anymore) while protesting loudly about the alleged transgressions of 'hostile foreign powers' like China, Russia, Iran and anyone else who doesn't fall in line with Washington's diktats.

To the part about the City and Wall Street, we've seen - also since the 1990s - an almost complete lack of accountability imposed upon our financial elites (and FIRE sector primacy over all else), something karlof1 has posted extensively about here at MoA. The FIRE sector has within its portfolio, of course, weapons manufacturers, "defense" contractors, media outlets and of course energy (and precious metal/rare earth material) extraction and production. IMO it is the FIRE sector driving the bus on almost every major geopolitical happening over which the West can exert any degree of influence or control.

And circling back to something Lex brought up, greed, naked ambition and the ethos that "I'm going to take what I can for me and mine while I can at the expense of anyone else and the planet, and I'm going to bend the law to my will such that my progeny - let them worry about the planet when it's their time - inherits my great wealth." Further, look to the importance of short-term (read: quarterly) profit seeking with zero regard for long-term stability and the rotating cast of characters invoked by Lex in their continual power struggles.

Extend this line of thinking (or lack of thought) to the areas of the globe in which Wall Street and the City (and their media, government and military arms) don't current hold full, unfettered sway, and you will have created a map with Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba Iran, Pakistan, parts of Africa and a few recalcitrant Central and South American countries in one color and the rest of us in another. This is about cracking 'new' markets open for our own oligarchs to wrest away the mostly ill-begotten riches of the oligarchs in those places or to crush any remotely successful socialist-leaning government such that the markets and resources (including the 'natural commons' and welfare states) there can similarly be exploited.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 21:46 utc | 76

i think the thing about moa i so appreciate is actually having a conversation with others ! its unlike many other mediums of exchange on the net, and one i really value..

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 21:32 utc | 73

Agree! Imagine how much better it would be if conversations were threaded rather than linear. This is like being in a large bar where all tables are simultaneously using the same sound system.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 16 2022 21:46 utc | 77

I understand this plane is the sister plane to the one destroyed at the beginning of the operation. Perhaps this is the transport plane recently shot down, I saw this visit to Japan reported elsewhere:

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/asia_pacific/2022-04-13/antonov-ukrainian-cargo-plane-visits-yokota-air-base-japan-5672971.html

Posted by: Paul | Apr 16 2022 21:48 utc | 78

Lysias | Apr 16 2022 20:08 utc | 56

Maybe you consider to take (Trans-)Resveratrol?
Dose for average adult: 500-1000 mg/d.

Posted by: maningi | Apr 16 2022 21:54 utc | 79

@ Opport Knocks | Apr 16 2022 21:46 utc | 77

thanks.. this has come up before... as i understand it - this format - i even forget what it is - doesn't allow for that.. typepad.. is that what this is? maybe it isn't, but from this conversation coming up before, i don't believe this format can allow for that... would be nice though!

Posted by: james | Apr 16 2022 21:54 utc | 80

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 21:46 utc | 76

Regarding international or even national law, further look to the absolute lack of any sort of accountability - be that political, financial or criminal - for Western leaders who have destroyed numerous sovereign and democratically elected (or at least supported) governments over just the past 30 years. To my knowledge precisely zero Western leaders, bureaucrats have been investigated, let alone punished for war crimes and atrocities. It's the 'rules based order' but only when the "rules" are what Uncle Sam dictates to the world. We have numerous war criminals not only walking among us, but elevated to even higher levels of power and wealth and/or whose images have been laundered in response to the Great Evil of Trump or Putin or Xi. George W. Bush. George H.W. Bush. Bill Clinton. Ronald Reagan. Barack Obama. Joe Biden. Donald Rumsfeld. Hillary Clinton. Madeline Albright. Vicky Nuland. Colin Powell. You can go even further down the chain of authority. Even Donald J. Trump have all committed war crimes or flouted international law in deadly ways. Many of them are initially criticized mildly in the western media, but later celebrated and idolized when it is politically expedient or their crimes have successfully been flushed down the memory hole and covered up by the sands of time and barrage of social media and 24/7 "news" coverage.

Indeed, to Al's point, it makes no logical sense for us average citizens of the West to cheer one side so loudly when it has zero bearing on our lives and our difficulties in putting food on the table and maintaining a savings account that will carry us forward even a week or two. The only thing WE should really be concerned about in this regard is the ever increasing possibility of civilization annihilating nuclear war. And I wholeheartedly agree...THAT is what would be DOMINATING the 'discussion' in countries with SANE leadership and a responsible, adversarial Fourth Estate - things we definitely do not have.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 22:00 utc | 81

Lex @50--

Thanks for your reply! The idea that Ukraine could become an Anti-Russia was first articulated by Bismarck, so Brezenski wasn't at all original. From my own and others research, the Outlaw US Empire was overcome by native fascists of the type Wallace described in his 1944 op/ed, which were at the core of the 1933-34 Businessmen's Coup attempt--a takeover that was masked by WW2 and the contrived Cold War afterwards. Yes, there was and continues to be major British influence, including QE2. When compared, the Neoliberal Financial hegemony is far superior to traditional Colonialism while providing further excellent cover for its fascist nature. The basic upper-class/royalist attitude of being superior to one and all is another trait shared by the UK & USA, which is the basic foundation for Nazi ideology--that's why I continually refer to Francis Bacon and a mindset that began with Henry VIII's self-elevation to God with his Divine Right of Kings Doctrine that his eventual successor Elizabeth took to heart. As John Cleary has shown so well, that mindset is very much alive in UK and USA.

All the historical and contemporary evidence I've seen leads me to conclude that Russia is now entering its Second--Existential--Great Patriotic War as the goal of the Outlaw US Empire differs in no manner from Hitler's Plan Ost. AND it's also an Existential War for the Outlaw US Empire as it will cease to exist in its current form if Russia wins. That's why we're being subjected to the unprecedented amount of dehumanizing propaganda that's only appeared twice previously--in WW1 aimed at Germany, and WW2 aimed at Japan. Yellow Peril and Red Scare propaganda while vile wasn't of the same scope and intensity.

cirsium @60--

Yes, history is being repeated as I show above, about which I plan to write more. We can thank the Zionist Neocons for easing the project to dismember Russia in their quest to create Greater Israel. IMO, 911 and the Afghan invasion was Clinton admin policy that was allowed to go forth but was never capitalized upon by Bush/Cheney--Afghanistan was to be the beachhead for attacking Russia's soft underbelly as Central Asia's stans were deemed, but the needed assets were diverted to Iraq and were to then go beyond. Putin proved he was no Yeltsin and took full advantage of the respite to rearm and revitalize Russia. By 2004, the great mistake was realized, and the Ukraine project got more attention. The short Georgia War in 2008 further revealed NATO's plans. And there's a very good reason why we're hearing of actions in Ukraine that are straight from Japan's unit-731 criminal's handbook/charge sheet. The Outlaw US Empire has very good reason to not want a nuclear war but is quite willing to resort to Biowar to gain its victory.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 22:03 utc | 82

Hoggy @ 23,

Why Ukraine?

It is a Spearhead for the USA into Eurasia as well as the encirclement of Russia and China.
Hence,the Russian red line and the Wests outsized extreme reaction to its plan being dismantled before them.

Posted by: Kim | Apr 16 2022 22:16 utc | 83

@Stonebird(41):
The air defense(AD) of Russia is historical divided in two parts:
AD of the troops(most parts mobile; coverage 0-60(100)km) and AD of the country(more static but now partly mobile also; coverage 20-500++km). In history both parts are divided but now both parts share information about air status and the country's AD is partly mobile. It can now act like a integrated AD. In theory all is fine but war is the hardest enemy of theory.
S-400(like S-125, S-200, S-300) are parts of the country AD normally.
Odessa was founded as a Russian town(1794). Since 1920/21 it was a part of the Ukrainian SSR but most of inhabitants were still Russians. Maybe it will be a Russian again.


Posted by: Wolle | Apr 16 2022 22:20 utc | 84

This article by Finian Cunningham reviews what's been discovered bioweapons-wise in Ukraine and reviews Outlaw US Empire behavior on the topic. IMO, we must assume the worst case was occurring--bioweapons were being developed for active use against Russia and other Outlaw US Empire foes with active participation by other NATO states as such an assumption fits the behavior we observe.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 22:21 utc | 85

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 16 2022 21:46 utc | 77

Isn't that the point? It's like we're all sitting at one long bar, some are coming, some leaving, some sitting having a quiet drink listening in, others arguing, b polishing the bar after posting the day's conversation topic. All under the sign of Bertold Brecht...

Erst kommt das Fressen, dann kommt die Moral, eh Bernhard?

Posted by: Patroklos | Apr 16 2022 22:32 utc | 86

@cirsium(60):
There are some assumptions that the African swine fever virus(ASFV) was used as biological weapon against Cuba, China and others. There are also some evidence that 2008 ASFV is escaped from bio-labs in Georgia causing the current ASF endemia in Eastern and Central Europe.

Posted by: Wolle | Apr 16 2022 22:38 utc | 87

The only thing WE should really be concerned about in this regard is the ever increasing possibility of civilization annihilating nuclear war. And I wholeheartedly agree...THAT is what would be DOMINATING the 'discussion' in countries with SANE leadership and a responsible, adversarial Fourth Estate - things we definitely do not have.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 22:00 utc | 81

The amazing void of discussion on the most vital question -- mushroom clouds on the horizon, how many of us imagine them locally? -- reminds me of other spheres (ecological, economic) in which the one most crucial issue is also the one most concertedly ignored.

Your post implicitly yearns for "SANE leadership" -- but I see insanity consuming average folks in the polity around these parts (where I live in the infamously "liberal" SF Bay Area). It has to do with the unquestionable privilege average US Americans take for granted. I've had many decades to grow up, here in USA, without learning (not fully, until just lately) about the privilege I unwittingly soaked up all my life. Every time USA needs more money for anything, we can just roll the printing presses, because of the petrodollar privilege I've enjoyed, enriching my life effortlessly, like a paper towel soaking up a spill.

What to say about our petroleum addictions? It's not the fault of truckers that nobody can make a living hauling freight anymore. Like that Bob Dylan song: "Everything is Broken"... Dick Cheney summed up the situation most tersely, years ago:

The American way of life is non-negotiable.

Or, in other words, If we cannot constantly divert our angst over life's meaninglessness with a boundless stream of cheap, disposable toys, there's no point in life going on.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 16 2022 22:39 utc | 88

Posted by: maningi | Apr 16 2022 21:54 utc | 79

Sorry for continuing the off-topic sub-thread, but are you aware of any studies involving successful introduction of resveratrol via oral administration?

I've been holding off on spending too much $ on that type of supplement until doing further research, but I recently did find some 'bio-fesitin'and l-ergothioneine at a reasonable price (not that I think they have much research either, but what the hell).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3689181/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2885499/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 22:40 utc | 89

The following is from the April 14th briefing given by Russia's MoD on bioweapons:

"Under the US Federal Unity and Cohesion Against Terrorism Act, research into biological weapons is permitted with the approval of the US government. Participants in such research are not criminally liable for developing such weapons.

"Thus, the US administration is implementing the principle that domestic law takes precedence over international law in this area. The most ethically controversial research is conducted outside national jurisdictions." [My Emphasis]

As I wrote @85, we must assume the worst because the worst is policy and promoted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 22:51 utc | 90

Here in the UK there has been a large explosion at or near an RAF facility. The current theory is that it could have been caused by fireworks (The RAF enjoy fireworks).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/16/fire-closes-m4-explosions-heard-huge-blaze-breaks-berkshire/

The idea that UK antiship missiles could have been involved in the sinking of the Moskva is absurd - if they were, Russia would surely have retaliated in a "deniable" way? My current theory is that the Moskva was carrying a large shipment of fireworks.

Posted by: Tim Glover | Apr 16 2022 22:51 utc | 91

Karloff @ 82

Divine right of kings was universal and established well before Henry VIII. I would recommend EMW Tillyard’s short book/long essay The Elizabethan World Picture. Available at your favorite used book store and entertaining as well as informative.

No nation completed their bourgeois revolution, aristocracy is very much with us.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 16 2022 22:59 utc | 92

Why do Americans who are striving to make ends meet every week give one hoot about Ukraine? Who every week more and more ordinary Americans are finding themselves homeless.

Posted by: Al | Apr 16 2022 21:35 utc | 74

In California (especially where I live in the Bay Area) homelessness is off the charts already, ever since March 2020, and imminently set to get much worse as vestigial shreds of social contract are shredded by state and national governments. We have a practically abandoned shopping center, here in Richmond, called Hilltop, which would be so much more appropriate, more dignified, for people living in tents and campers. But our Hilltop Neighborhood Association thinks having poor people nearby might present a risk of Cooties, so they've blocked it. Instead we see shockingly slap-dash, informal encampments, always under the threat of another "sweep", such as the mess on Rydin Road, right next to Point Isabel (a beautiful bayside park). No place or condition for humans to dwell in, but systemically they're human garbage, and we haven't yet fired up the incinerator.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 16 2022 22:59 utc | 93

The following is from the April 14th briefing given by Russia's MoD on bioweapons (Sorry, link blocks comment):

"Under the US Federal Unity and Cohesion Against Terrorism Act, research into biological weapons is permitted with the approval of the US government. Participants in such research are not criminally liable for developing such weapons.

"Thus, the US administration is implementing the principle that domestic law takes precedence over international law in this area. The most ethically controversial research is conducted outside national jurisdictions." [My Emphasis]

As I wrote @85, we must assume the worst because the worst is policy and promoted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 23:06 utc | 94

AN @ 88 said; "The American way of life is non-negotiable."
Or, in other words, If we cannot constantly divert our angst over life's meaninglessness with a boundless stream of cheap, disposable toys, there's no point in life going on.

LOL, but above all, the American way of life exposed. Thanks!!!

Posted by: vetinLA | Apr 16 2022 23:09 utc | 95

Oldhippie @91--

England obeyed Papal edicts until Henry wanted a divorce which the Pope refused to grant, which led to the Schism with the Roman Church and establishment of the Church of England headed by the King which Henry declared made him Divine and established that doctrine within English law. Globally, Kings and Queens were often treated as Divine well before the advent of the Christian church. What I'm relating is specific to England and its offshoots.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 16 2022 23:12 utc | 96

Or, in other words, If we cannot constantly divert our angst over life's meaninglessness with a boundless stream of cheap, disposable toys, there's no point in life going on.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 16 2022 22:39 utc | 88

Yes, as far as 'the masses' (i.e., "consumers") go in the West, that's about right. Stuff is just easy for us in the PMC or skilled trades here in the US and cheap disposable (w/ planned obsolescence built in) toys are currently plentiful and have been for a while now.

This strikes me as a symptom rather than a root cause. It is an *intended* symptom of course. Distract the people with bread and circuses and affordable-ish (or financeable) goods and make the "news" into a steady stream of quick 24/7/365 soundbites that stick to the elites' script, on steroids with social media. "Manufacturing Consent" if you will. Make it socially, professionally unacceptable to question things as we're told and make sure nobody really has the time to take away from struggling w/ life to devote to really understanding what's going on in far away places.

I'm also seeing insanity or a willful almost pathological disdain for facts and news that countervail the (unprecedentedly uniform and ubiquitous) narratives of Russian barbarity and saintly Ukrainian resistance to tyranny, all the while - as has been mentioned - completely ignoring the threat of global nuclear war.

My father is among the afflicted. My family have been lifelong democrats (small "D") for reasons of lack of better choices at the local and state levels. LOTE, really, coupled with union/labor ties. But my colleagues and family have been on the Russia/Putin == Single Most Evil thing since Trump won and the Russiagate fiasco. Even now I have a hard time discussing it, much less convincing them to re-evaluate the situation and consider facts that are inconvenient to the prevailing insanity. No. Russia did *not* "hack" the goddamned election.

Just yesterday I finally convinced a few of them to read the Jacques Baud articles and there was a glimmer of demoralization and acceptance from a couple of them that reality is not *exactly* what they've been fed from the Western MSM on Ukraine and Russia, and importantly grudging acceptance of the major role that the US has played in curating the next big war. No luck so far in convincing anyone that these reports of atrocities are mostly exaggerations or outright lies (and it always entails qualifying any statements up front that I also think the invasion was horrible and a violation of, let's say, norms). The USG and MSM are working hard to cement these notions in peoples' heads when they should really be expressing grave concerns over mushroom clouds and waves of fire hotter than the Sun on the nearby horizon. They should also be credibly analyzing Russian and Ukrainian citizen claims of Ukrainian war crimes, but yeah - that'll never happen.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 16 2022 23:12 utc | 97

Posted by: Paul | Apr 16 2022 21:48 utc | 78

This Antonov,An 224 was probably the same type shot down near Odessa.
There was only one of the Antonov An 225's that was destroyed at Kiev ever completed.Although,I believe another slightly different Antonov An 225 was completed to about 70%.

Posted by: Kim | Apr 16 2022 23:23 utc | 98

I've noticed there seem to be fewer war propaganda articles the last week of the "Putin: closer to Hitler or John Wayne Gacy" variety, but I'm afraid this just means they've reached some kind of saturation point, the large majority of people are convinced, and the one's that aren't won't be, so they just aren't getting the same ROI.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 16 2022 23:31 utc | 99

@ 82

“There’s such divinity doth hedge a king.” Hamlet act 4 scene 5

A popular sentiment the audience knew.

The king was of course primus inter pares. Whenever there was a failure in succession the aristocracy knew that any House would do. Saxe Coburg Gotha? Really? That was Edward Stanley installing his relatives he could control. And everyone in the peerage knew just how this worked. Commoners only saw the divine.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 16 2022 23:32 utc | 100

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