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April 15, 2022

Ukraine Open Thread 2022-47

Only news & views related to the Ukraine conflict ...

Posted by b on April 15, 2022 at 15:14 UTC | Permalink

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Aaron Maté (free to read):

Siding with Ukraine's far-right, US sabotaged Zelensky's historic mandate for peace

In 2019, Zelensky was elected on an overwhelming mandate to make peace with Russia. As Stephen F. Cohen warned that year, the US chose to side with Ukraine's far-right and fuel war.

Posted by: b | Apr 15 2022 15:15 utc | 1

British mercenary says Ukraine does not want peace. Says he thought Ukraine was the "good guys" but no more.

https://youtu.be/B-da_4ccANE

Posted by: Dean Oneil | Apr 15 2022 15:25 utc | 2

In a whole operation of damage control, after the Ukrainian Ambassador to Spain stated in Spanish public TV 24h news program that the nazis in Ukraine were contributing to "liberate" his country and so he was so much grateful to them, fact checkers on duty in Spain now are taking out statements by members of Azov Battallion on that they really wanted to change their nazi symbology, but some people in the battallion opposed, and that, in the end, they wear that symbology only for "sentimental reasons"....

"No sé, Rick, me siguen pareciendo neonazis...", symbology apart, mainly because of the carnage and oppression they have provoked in Ukraine for 8 years in a round.., sentimentally or not...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CYAoUDGYh0

Posted by: Givi | Apr 15 2022 15:50 utc | 3

On the "MOSKV"

As an ex Shipowner, I am dismayed at any vessel's sinking. Doubly so with the MOSKVA as a sea going vessel and as a Flagship.

I wonder why the MoD has not acknowledged that the vessel was struck by an Ukrainian missile or a couple of them?

If this were not the case, then it would point out to sabotage, a fifth column's inside job which, in my opinion, is a lot worse than an external attack. What a can of worms wouldn't that open?!

Maybe the MoD is reluctant to admit the Ukrainian origin of the strike, because its logical corollary would be that intelligence gathered by the West/US must have pinpointed the exact whereabouts of the vessel.

Without this information, firing the Neptune/s or any other rocket would be an exercise in futility. The Satellites my point to a vicinity or a vector but only exceptionally the the exact location of the target.

So, an AWAC or a Global Hawk, a Reaper or a Predator must have originated the data that allowed the hit/s on the "Moskva". The Ukrainians would not have been able to determine it on their own.

Therefore, these aircraft are enemy combatants and Russia must , imperatively, destroy them as soon as they are within range of the RF or the Black Sea or the Ukraine.

The consequences that may accrue from such defensive moves would depend on the targeted asset being manned or unmanned, even though in any case, "la fin justifie les moyens".

These spy planes must be eliminated.

Posted by: CarlD | Apr 15 2022 15:52 utc | 4

Can anyone recommend an article that summarizes the Ukraine conflict for people who have no idea what's going on?

Many of my coworkers are only familiar with the dominant western narrative, and so when they ask me for my perspective I don't even know where to start. I try to point them here or to people like Pepe Escobar, Gonzalo Lira or The Duran, but I need a succinct and accessible article or essay I can give out.

Posted by: THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 5

Was doing some reading over at The Saker this morning. Some speculation of US involvement in the sinking of the Moskva, at the very least sharing of intelligence, but possibly more.

Combined with Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory…

Seems that it is time for Russia to “take the gloves off”. Expect to see some escalation in Ukraine.

I think there are forces on both sides that are trying hard to avoid direct US/NATO involvement due to the mass carnage that will cause… but with the lines getting blurred between the supplying of weapons and training, military advisors, and sharing of intelligence…it may get harder and harder for Russia to ignore.

Posted by: Joe | Apr 15 2022 16:05 utc | 6

Less than 48 hours to D day, the Z Battle for Dombass, where Russians will be fighting for Russia, and Ukie traitors will be fighting for U.S. supremacy over Russia and the rest of the world.

Never surrender! URA!

https://youtu.be/Og-HyQ5ZnCM

This cannot be emphasized enough.:

Let's assume for the sake of argument we were already in a multi-polar world; if Russia attacked the U.S. by proxy, and were trying to cripple it economically as the U.S. is doing with Russia today, half of Russia would already be obliterated. That's how much patience and discipline Putin is exercising, and that's how much control over the world the U.S. has today.

I don't care who says what trying to second-guess this Russian operation. The U.S. cannot continue as the hegemon bully of the world. Of course the Russians underestimated the Ukies' will to fight. That is yesterday's news. This operation should be stepped up to a level that recognizes that the U.S. is embedded with an enemy, yes, a recalcitrant enemy that shows no mercy. This is not your Ukraine of 2014. The U.S. has turned Ukraine's roots into daggers, poisoned the Ukrainian psyche and is weaponizing Ukraine into the Israel of Eurasia.

This is existential; Russians know this or they should by now, and should hit the web and the airwaves like a cyber army committed to a multi-polar future where Russia's existence and prominence cannot be so easily threatened and erased. They must be ready to stomach scorched earth in Ukraine if that's what it takes to reverse the damage the U.S. has already created there. After Donbass; Odessa, shutting off the Black Sea. It's the only way to stop the U.S. from its Frankenstein ambition: a second fascist Israel. Forget about Kiev. It's lost, but with Odessa, who cares.

Once Russia has the East secured, it can carry out timely surgical strikes whenever Kiev tries to amass military strength, just like Israel does with Syria and Lebanon.

There is no other way to get out of this on top! Russians must be mentally prepared to fight for Russia's dignity and existence. This message must be as prominently delivered as Z is on billboards on Russia's street corners. Russians must embrace a warrior mentality and be prepared to sacrifice a lot to get this war done and secure a future where Russia is not just a token power on the UNSC, but an arm of international law checking hegemonic interests that threaten multipolarity.

Russians must be all in to fight like hell, or become subjects in a vassal state submissive to the interests of the Empire.

China beware. AUKUS will metamorphasize to include Japan and SK and get a footing in Taiwan and a weakened Russia will seal this expansion. Any dissent inside China and Hong Kong will be exploited to the max. China's road will be mined with U.S. obstruction. The hegemon will never give up on taking China down. Full containment is in China's future if Russia falls.

No half-assed whacks at the Empire will suffice. Only committed resistance will succeed. The Empire succeeds only with Divide and Conquer strategy.

If Russians stand firm and united against the West's war by proxy on Russia, and China's covert foreign assistance will make success more certain, then Russia will prevail with a spectacular victory.

The ship is a symbol, but you can't break Russian spirit with a missile. Russia be all your history in this one battle; be formidable in your resistance!

Posted by: Circe | Apr 15 2022 16:09 utc | 7

@CarlD | Apr 15 2022 15:52 utc | 3

I wonder why the MoD has not acknowledged that the vessel was struck by an Ukrainian missile or a couple of them?
Perhaps it wasn't? An accident is possible, sabotage also. I tend to think something else happened, but I have only speculation to build on. More facts are required. When exactly did it happen, where was it located and what was the weather like?

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 15 2022 16:09 utc | 8

Maybe the MOD hasnt acknowledged a missile strike because none happened. Ditto for sabotage. It is entirely possible that it was a fire in the ammunition hold like they said. I know people want to get all mad about stuff...about some magic fantasy nato technology or Russian incompetence...but maybe things are exactly as they are...and it wasnt an attack at all.

Posted by: nook | Apr 15 2022 16:09 utc | 9

Not muck talk of land mines on the Eastern Front and the surety of them slowing any Russian advance. Farmers will have to plow their fields with a paperclip for decades after this event ends.
Clearing landmines in Ukraine, one careful step at a time

In Donbas, along the line of contact between the Ukrainian army and the separatists, there are hectares of mined territory. Securing it – once the conflict is over – will take more than half a century. A tragedy within a tragedy

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 15 2022 16:09 utc | 10

Again, the Escobar/Glazyev interview that's certainly about the SMO and the hybrid war against Russia and increasingly China. Pepe links to several Glazyev essays, all of which demand reading if you want to gain a higher understanding of the entire situation, both Big and Small Picture. And within those essays are links to other sources that influence Glazyev. For example, at the top of one of his most recent, "The Economics of Russian Victory" Glazyev links to "Ideology of Russian Victory", which is an historical essay providing an important insight into the Russian psyche. Here's Galzyev's most recent essay published April 10th at Stalker Zone, . Glazyev has also written several books, his most recent can be freely downloaded here if you're a member of The Archive, which is also free. Its title, The Last World War: The U.S. to Move and Lose, which he refers to several times in his essays. Now I'll discover if any of these links cause my comment to get blocked.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:13 utc | 11

@2

This jackass is just trying to save his life now.

Was paid to be in the company of fascist thugs to give their social media propaganda the "allure" that US audience still sees in the British, for some mysterious reason. He should have known long ago they spent the better part of the last 8 years terrorizing the population they're "guarding", in the name of barely-remixed 1930's fascist political theories.

He should be thankful he isn't in the reverse situation - if his Azov mates captured him 'working' for other side, they would have just shot him to get a nice snapchat post and left him in a ditch.

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 16:21 utc | 12

To #4 re: "Can anyone recommend an article that summarizes the Ukraine conflict for people who have no idea what's going on?"
https://www.sott.net/article/466340-Is-it-possible-to-actually-know-what-has-been-and-is-going-on-in-Ukraine
Excellent overview by ex NATO Intelligence officer.

Re #3 on the MOSKV: I believe the MoD hesitates to announce that the ship was struck by enemy attack because one of the goals of the current conflict is to provoke Russia into a retaliatory attack on NATO territory at which point NATO can officially join in with the 'this is a defensive response' narrative covering up how they have been instigating and desiring this for years. Not the European and American people of course, but their ruling classes (whoever they are).

Paul Craig Roberts has something to say about this (as always), namely that Russia has been too weak. Interestingly, this is exactly the same criticism Hitler faced in the early going on the Western front in that he refused to completely conquer France (allowing the whole Vichy govt boondoggle) and also refused to seriously attack or bomb England at the beginning even deliberately allowing the British Army to escape via Dunkirk which betrayal prompted an assassination attempt. He even sent his closest Deputy Fuhrer to England to negotiate a long-term geopolitical alliance with the British Empire but the man was locked up in solitary for 50 years and hung the week before he was finally due to be released. Britain wanted war, just like NATO-US now wants war.

PCR's https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/04/14/the-kremlin-has-missed-the-opportunity-to-end-the-provocations-of-russia-that-are-bringing-the-world-to-nuclear-war/ :
"Indeed, Russia is going to have to tend with situations far beyond the borders of Ukraine. The previous Russian president, currently deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, Dmitry Medvedev, warned that nuclear escalation will be the consequence of entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO.

See: https://news.sky.com/story/russia-threatens-nuclear-escalation-if-sweden-and-finland-join-nato-12589823

And: https://tass.com/politics/1437715

As I said would be the case, the failure of Russia to impress the West with an overwhelming exercise of military force in Ukraine means another step has been taken toward nuclear armageddon.

The rush to nuclear war is not primarily Russia’s fault. It is the West that is being provocative, not Russia. The West turned a cold shoulder to Russia’s security concerns. The West armed and trained the Ukrainian army and Nazi militia and pointed them at the Donbass Russians. The West placed US missiles in Romania and Poland and now in Slovakia. It is Washington that is pursuing hegemony, not the Kremlin.

The Kremlin’s responsibility is in the weakness of its responses to provocations. First ignoring them for years, making only pointless diplomatic protests. Then when finally forced to intervene in Ukraine, doing so in as limited a way as possible and in a time-consuming way that gives Washington control of the explanation and opportunities to widen the conflict beyond the boundary of the Kremlin’s limited operation.

The Saker and Andrei Martyanov stress the superiority of Russian military tactics and weapon systems, but these important capabilities do not provide the margin of victory when the Kremlin is forever reacting minimally to the initiatives of Washington. The Kremlin’s inability to be proactive and unwillingness to clear Washington’s fifth column out of Russia’s ruling circles will be the hallmarks of Russian defeat."

I note that both Saker and MoA have remained largely silent on the sinking of the Moskva. The Duran insists it's only a cosmetic propaganda-serving narrative of no military significance. Southfront, on the other hand, has some sterner coverage (which I found surprising to find there - good for them), including Eric Zuesse's https://southfront.org/why-russias-ukrainian-campaign-is-failing/, and https://southfront.org/strike-on-moskva-missile-cruiser-is-only-precursor-to-change-in-military-situation-in-region/ which leads off with: "The sinking of the missile cruiser Moskva was a serious defeat for the Russian Navy. The attack on the flagship by the Ukrainian Navy could now provide an additional boost to both the morale of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the rise of Ukrainian sentiment in the country. This event revealed significant miscalculations in the tactics of the Russian Armed Forces, as well as revealing the actually corrupt nature of the Russian army.

The Russian Black Sea Fleet will become a priority target in the new phase of the military operations in Ukraine. This was clear from the military point of view. The fact of active operations of the Black Sea Fleet west of the Crimea is a constant threat of sea landing, more effective fire support of ground forces by reducing the flight time of subsonic cruise missiles, as well as the factor of threat to sea communications near Odessa, which is disastrous for both the Ukrainian and Western economy. For example, the lack of shipment through the port of neon needed by the global microelectronics industry. This is even more clear in terms of media coverage – the deaths of ships are always perceived more tangibly by the public than the deaths of units of soldiers; this fact is perfectly illustrated by the current shock state of the Russian media sphere.

The attack on the Moskva was not an accident. The cruiser was targeted both for tactical and propaganda reasons.

On the one hand, it is the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, but on the other, it is a deeply outdated ship, worn out by its long service and chronic underfunding.

The Moskva strike was well planned and considered: it was launched in stormy conditions, in order to complicate the ship’s damage control and crew evacuation, and it was located far away from other ships of the Black Sea Fleet.

The operation was conducted in full cooperation between the Navy and NATO forces. According to air monitoring data of April 12, a British reconnaissance aircraft RC-135 was actively working in the Black Sea area and UAV RQ-4 Global Hawk flights were recorded at different times. On that day, Alliance reconnaissance confirmed the presence of the Moskva, checked signatures and received comprehensive data on the location of other Russian Black Sea Fleet ships."

Again, I think the MoD is downplaying this because they don't want to expand the war beyond Ukraine and engage with NATO and this story clearly reveals that NATO is already engaging with them.

PCR may be right that Russia's refusal to wage war, insisting rather that this is a 'Special Military Operation' is a huge blunder. The other side is waging war. Russia still has an IMF-dominated Central Bank whose power network is possibly more in charge of the country than the Presidency and Duma (as is the case in Europe and America for example).

War is something which cannot be waged by half measures. I think Russia is in a quandary and it is beginning to feel to me like they lack the ability to really take it to the enemy but prefer merely to respond and take counter-measures. I am no longer convinced that Putin is not an at least partially controlled agent and am beginning to wonder if remarks like Elon Musk's that Putin is richer than he may not have some substance to them. In any case, if Russia fails to prevent NATO from expanding, the world is in for a protracted world war for many years which will cause untold suffering for billions - literally.


Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 15 2022 16:22 utc | 13

Some voices in the US are asking how not to repeat the American scenario for the alleged chemical attack in Syria in case it happened - i.e. if the Americans did it again - in Ukraine.

So far the initial tsunami of sanctions has failed to shock and collapse the Russian Ruble and the economy. The next move might be a total embargo on all Russian oil and gas by all Europe in the hope it does what the first wave of sanctions have failed to do.

Will a chemical attack allow the US to unite Europe to immediately stop all Russian energy and make the US look as a winner opposite to what happened in Syria when American warships had to turn around after they were ready to launch their attack on Syria?

Posted by: Man | Apr 15 2022 16:23 utc | 14

I see the fourth link got screwed up somehow. Here it is again, "The Results of American Aggression That Are Positive for Russia", which was published April 10th.

THX1138 @4--

See if this article fits your needs, "The Military Situation In The Ukraine". No article about the origins of this event that's worthy is going to be short as the whole affair is very complex and has a history dating back to WW1. There are a dozen others I could refer to you, but this one is written by someone who by most will be seen as mostly neutral and objective.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:24 utc | 15

These past 45 days, there was a special operation. It is worthy of note that the Russians could have termed their operation a rescue operation, not an invasion of Ukraine since they were primarily engaged in helping the LPR and the DPR resist Ukrainian aggression after their recognition as independent Republics.

If they had not exceeded the limits of the original Lugansk and Donetzk oblasts, theirs surely was not an invasion of Ukraine.

But this is not how the West would interpret it.

Not that the Ukrainians have hit inside Russian territory, Russia is now at War with Ukraine and things are about to change radically.

Posted by: CarlD | Apr 15 2022 16:28 utc | 16

Man @13--

[A] total embargo on all Russian oil and gas by all Europe will do nothing to Russia, but it will destroy the EU's overall economy, which is one of the Outlaw US Empire's aims. Here are two analytical papers that will get you up to speed if you desire, "The Dollar Devours the Euro" and "America Defeats Germany for the Third Time in a Century".

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:32 utc | 17

Maybe it hit a mine. There are mines floating around.

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 15 2022 16:33 utc | 18

THX1138,
The main Baud article has been linked a few times in this thread. Depending on who you're giving it to, you may want to consider which site you link to since it's been posted in a lot of places and the other articles or tone of the site may put some people off. It's also relatively lengthy. Here's one that's the same information in interview form

Posted by: Lex | Apr 15 2022 16:37 utc | 19

CarlD @15--

Regardless what Russia termed its technical military operation, the West was going to call it what it already planned to call it--An Invasion--which the West had signaled weeks beforehand. Plus, given all the circumstances and Russia's stated goals, limiting the SMO to the liberation of Donbass wouldn't be sufficient whatsoever. Do, please, get up to speed!!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:37 utc | 20

Posted by: THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4

Many of my coworkers are only familiar with the dominant western narrative, and so when they ask me for my perspective I don't even know where to start.

Well if you do have a perspective, just give it in your own words. They ask your opinion.
OTOH if you are not familiar with the matter and you do not have an opinion, what is the problem of saying so?
But if they still insist, they may start here to gain some perspective.

For a somewhat different perspective but still pretty good, check this out. It is in Martian language though, so turn on English subtitles.

Posted by: hopehely | Apr 15 2022 16:38 utc | 21

I'm so old, I remember when Aaron Maté's father, Gabor, MD, was a regular guest on Democracy Now! ruminating about clinical PTSD afflicting the first generation of the GWOT. Maté, on the other hand, is a prisoner of his professional vocation--topical broadcast exposure. He's earnest. He's youthful. He's persistent. He's no Seymore Hersch; he's another columnist. He compiles disparate publicly available publications--conspicuously absenct governmental proceedings like the US Congressional Record and even UNSC minutes confirming the duplicity of Allied leaders said to represent NATO "democratic" and "peace" processes. Anyone can confirm that without a YouTube scaffold, if they had the TIME and inclination to test the "transparency" of tl;dr records. Think about that, upon whom you trust to verify your suspicion, rather than mobilize "mechanisms" to remove agents of terror in your "representative democracy."

Aaron Maté's not personally a witness of any event which he purports to "analyze". When's the last time this reportage was based on first-hand experience and "classified" info provided by US.gov or UN delegates in situ? He relies on Blumental--among other persona non grata--to take all the risks to collect "unnamed sources" in Monroe's backyard and the Condi's Greater Middle-east conflict zones, does't he, not to mention DC barricade of Venezuela's embassy and arrest. Has either one of them "investigated" attendance or content of the April 6 Arria-formula meeting of the USNC? Have either one of them "investigated" the conspicuous absence of rada.gov.ua/en and martial laws?

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 16:38 utc | 22

@ THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4
Re: Can anyone recommend an article that summarizes the Ukraine conflict for people who have no idea what's going on?

The following video interview contains a good overview during the first 30 minutes. Transcript is available at the same site.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/18/pentagon-doug-macgregor-russia-ukraine-war/

Video only is also available on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFngc_8RiVc&t=107s

Posted by: TigerLily | Apr 15 2022 16:39 utc | 23

karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:13 utc | 10

It looks like this will be an evolution away from the dollar with its various phases. The last phase - the creation of a digital reference and trade currency a number years away perhaps five years or more though that may happen sooner depending on what new madness the US comes up with. In the meantime using national currencies with the dollar still as the reference currency.

This part was very interesting.
In any case, participation in the new economic system will not be constrained by the obligations in the old one. Countries of the Global South can be full participants of the new system regardless of their accumulated debts in dollars, euro, pound, and yen. Even if they were to default on their obligations in those currencies, this would have no bearing on their credit rating in the new financial system. Nationalization of extraction industry, likewise, would not cause a disruption. Further, should these countries reserve a portion of their natural resources for the backing of the new economic system, their respective weight in the currency basket of the new monetary unit would increase accordingly, providing that nation with larger currency reserves and credit capacity. In addition, bilateral swap lines with trading partner countries would provide them with adequate financing for co-investments and trade financing.

I guess that can occur once the new digital currency comes in and that will sure throw the amongst whatever pigeons are left of the western economic system.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 15 2022 16:47 utc | 24

kmu.gov.ua hasn't updated its messaging system system since 9 April. And kmu.gov.ua has never--1994-present--AFAICT, systematically counted or submitted UAF combat or civilian casualties to public scrutiny. A million years ago, Peter Drucker noted, “What gets measured gets managed." Why then would anyone lend credibility to a single word uttered by UA.gov, like US DoD, intended to instantiate RU "atrocities" and reparations?

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 16:51 utc | 25

THX1338. The Offguardian, at the start of all this, wrote an excellent time line of how we got to where we are now. It's in plain English, well set out and with simple easy to read format. It's a great place to start. It's in their archive. It offers no opinions just facts so people can make up their own minds.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 15 2022 16:54 utc | 26

Peter AU1 @23--

Thanks for your reply! Yes, that default issue would be very attractive for nations with odious IMF/World Bank debt. I think you'll find "The Economics of Russian Victory" rewarding and worthy of your time.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 17:02 utc | 27

@1
@21 sln2002

Aaron Mate has made dozens if not hundreds of outstanding interviews, far above anything found in MSM. Including the one linked above. He also has that thing missing in today's media environment - integrity.

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 17:03 utc | 28

No. 12 writes, "one of the goals of the current conflict is to provoke Russia into a retaliatory attack on NATO territory at which point NATO can officially join in."

The alternative is that this is a media and political war on Trump and Republicans, aka "Putin." Ukraine is just useful for that. The media outlets and political appointees speaking out are lined up that way.

I notice that it is DoD that speaks with caution, as if they alone really don't want to incite spread of this war. That makes me incline to the idea this is a political fight, being used domestically.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Apr 15 2022 17:04 utc | 29

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 16:38 utc | 21

smear job on one of the finest journalists around.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 15 2022 17:11 utc | 30

Video of interior of a Kolomoisky online scam center decorated with a swastika.

A big swastika over the entrance door in one of the call centers in Berdyansk that belonged to Ukrainian oligarch Kolomoisky. Fraudsters worked there, posing as employees of Russian banks over the phone and scamming people for money.
https://twitter.com/bonanzamedia2/status/1514994241470095361?cxt=HHwWgoCz-YvPq4YqAAAA

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 15 2022 17:15 utc | 31

@THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4

Try RT's latest documentary "Donbass 2014" now on the front page of the RT website. It gives a succinct account.

Posted by: cirsium | Apr 15 2022 17:17 utc | 32

Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 15 2022 16:22 utc | 12

Scorpion, a lot of what you write is true, but you have a poison tentacle, or are you really using reverse psychology?

We agree on a lot, but a ship is a mere thing you can break compared to the spirit of triumph and the will to survive. The flag can be planted everywhere, but only the spirit behind it gives it meaning and purpose. Don't underestimate the Russian spirit.

The whole world has been corrupted in some way by U.S. influence, and this reality is unsustainable.

In any case, if Russia fails to prevent NATO from expanding, the world is in for a protracted world war for many years which will cause untold suffering for billions - literally.

How can corruption be cleansed without the suffering of many? Sacrifices and pain are inevitable especially for those who have complacently enabled a duplicitous standard that excuses every deviation from honor, decency and good. Putin is being tested in many ways. I for one hope's he passes with flying colors; the colors of Russia.

At this moment on the eve of the battle looming I must have faith and so should you.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 15 2022 17:20 utc | 33

I have once more been reading articles that Zelensky is nothing more than a puppet in all of this. Wrong thinking I say. It's simply too easy to make this excuse for him.
He is nothing of the sort. He is making clear and unambiguous decisions based on 2 things. 1stly the USA, UK and Europe have built him up to such a level of idolatry the power has completely gone to his head. He is making demand upon demand now. More weapons, more sanctions, more hatred, more false flags that will lead to WW3 and more. He has come to believe he is completely inviolable and nobody is telling him otherwise in the West. 2ndly, he is grossly incompetent but dangerously so. He is the President of the Ukraine but, instead of taking time to seriously consider what is best for his country and it's citizens, he is solely concerned in consolidating his power by, in effect, crowning himself a Dictator. He has wiped out most of the opposition parties closing down all their media platforms and resources. He issuing decrees left right and centre which amount to nothing more than the total subjugation of its citizens through fear, brute force and ignorance and is sabotaging negotiations, humanitarian corridors, murdering citizens who are pro russian and supporting genocide of them. He proactively supports Azov in their ethic cleansing activities and much much more. These decisions are his and his alone. He is a Tin pot Dictator yes but worse he has become a tyrant and a despot with no one to challenge him or keep him in check. He is thoroughly enjoying it not to mention his theft of USD$2BN from the Ukrainian people's and nation. He doesn't have to do the bidding of the West he chooses to to further his own ambitions and financial gains. He has been Deified by the West and has really come to believe he is some sort of Messiah. Stupid him. He will not be long for this world. Whilst he sends the Uki army into situations in which their destruction is almost assured, he sits in his secret location probably in Poland twiddling his thumbs whilst his own army murder and massacre Uki Citizens. He's no puppet he's the Orchestra's Conductor. How thoroughly ashamed Western Presidents and their politicians will be of themselves to have debased themselves so thoroughly before him. Sean Penn also and Bono also. I don't think he's long for this world. He isn't fit to lick Putin'so boots.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 15 2022 17:25 utc | 34

Karlof1 19

I am up to speed as I said this is not the way the West would interpret it.

But technically, If the republics limits had not been crossed, it was not an invasion since these republics were no longer part of Ukraine. It would boil down to a matter of the recognition of these territories. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

I apologize for my mental snails pace, I work with whatever I have.

Posted by: CarlD | Apr 15 2022 17:27 utc | 35

@ karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:13 utc | 10
Peter AU1 | Apr 15 2022 16:47 utc | 23

I read that interview as belated confirmation bias, not a prediction. Several decades lie between today and "successful" structural adjustements (to borrow an IMF rubric) by nonaligned, or "third world," nation-states whose "leadership" cohorts depend on US extortion to butter their own biscuits amid the misery of their consituents. They won't retire for the greater good--sometimes read: autarky, nationalism, independence-- without a a cleansing bath of MAO proportions.

Do either of you remember when the BRICS coalition was founded? I'm guessing, no, if only because "social media" is a string of non sequitors, NATO press have been otherwise pre-occuped with recapitalizing global rentier finance and banking system that they create and destroyed with the CREDIT Panic of '08, and, Pat and Pat Homemaker do. not. do. IMF .

2009 was also the year Obama flew into COP15 at the 11th hour to disrupt China's sideline consultations with select Global South delegates. BRICS Informational Portal preserves the brief, declaratory text of the Joint Statement of the BRIC Countries’ Leaders--Brazil (Lula), Russia (Medvedev), India (Patil), and China (Jintao)-- in “dealing with the financial crisis” and the “central role played by G20 summits” to recapitalize the financial system created by Europe and the US (Yekaterinburg,16062009). Praising G20 international co-operation in early April, IMF director Strauss-Kahn "We saw the costs of non-cooperation when countries protected domestic banking systems at the expense of neighbours and ring-fenced assets in their own jurisdictions--and, looking ahead, we must avoid pressure on banks to favor domestic lending.” (India Times 17042009)

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 17:29 utc | 36

Whatever happened to those Ukrainian generals who trained side by side in the same academies as their Russian counterparts/(brothers). 50-70 years old now, have they also converted to Nazism?

Supposedly, like golfers, old generals never lose their balls.

Posted by: WTFUD | Apr 15 2022 17:38 utc | 37

Another of Ukraine's "strategic" application of the Tochka missile

This one prevented, thankfully

via Sputnik News (note: link to a series of short statements, scroll down)

"Russian forces have intercepted two Tochka-U missiles fired by the Ukrainian military at the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant [note: near Kherson -ptb], Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said on Friday."

"At about 07:00 a.m Moscow time [04:00 GMT a.m.], a unit of the Ukrainian 19th separate missile brigade attacked the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant with two Tochka-U tactical missiles. The destruction of the dam of the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant after an explosion was supposed to … cause the flooding of many localities in the Kherson region … and the aim was to limit the actions of the Russian armed forces. Both missiles were shot down in the air by Russian air defense systems,” Konashenkov told a briefing."

"The ministry also said that fragments of one of the missiles fell on a village in the Kherson region and damaged residential buildings. One woman and one child were hurt during the incident, Konashenkov added."

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 17:46 utc | 38

telegram format of primary source for @57 = RF MoD
https://t.me/mod_russia/14403

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 17:50 utc | 39

The root of fascism and western European supremacy summarized in one video...Thus, it is not that the nazi problem ends with wiping out the Azov Battalion in Ukraine...

https://twitter.com/MapsUkraine/status/1514925186524618754?cxt=HHwWhIC9wcibjIYqAAAA

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 17:57 utc | 40

How thoroughly ashamed Western Presidents and their politicians will be of themselves to have debased themselves so thoroughly before [Zelensky]. Sean Penn also and Bono also.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 15 2022 17:25 utc | 33

Distinguished SF Chronicle classical music critic Joshua Kosman ("For musical artists aligned with Putin, the Ukraine invasion brings a reckoning" 2/28):

What expectations do we have — should we have — for artists and other ostensibly nonpolitical actors in a time of crisis? Is it incumbent on literally everyone to declare their allegiances?

It's easy enough for me to shrug off cosmic jerks such as Penn & Bono. My adjustment to shifting circumstances is much more difficult when I see someone I once deeply respected, so far down the slippery slope of fascism, there's no catching 'em. That's the kind of shock I've experienced from people like Kosman, who apparently concludes, in this profoundly disgraceful opinion piece about Russian artists, that yes indeed it should now be incumbent on literally everyone to swear their loyalty oath. (Amy Goodman summoned the schoolmarmish uckiness to demand a loyalty oath from Vijay Prakash on this morning's show, for God's sake!)

What has happened to the country I used to inhabit? Gusts shake the house enough to wonder if it's an earthquake, most of the trees are dying, and people distrust each other so much we're sure everything we say will be taken the wrong way.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 15 2022 17:57 utc | 41

The presumed attack on the ship also occurred in the aftermath of the mass surrenders in Mariupol, and so seems to have swung "perceptions" on the current state of the war, without affecting the facts on the ground.

PCR has complained that 'Russia is weak" for eight years. He has consistently advocated a Russian military operation against Kiev since the aftermath of Maidan, but it is clear now that was the desire and expectation of the neo-con architects of the provocation when the relative strengths were more in their favour.

At least two regular writers for CounterPunch have in last few days attacked Consortium News as a Kremlin mouthpiece, clarifying splits in self-identified western Left:

"On the other hand, there are the small but strangely ubiquitous online “left”-identified folks who read and write for noxious red-brown hack farms like Consortium News, where a ridiculous website that adheres to the doctrines of the demented Russian white nationalist Alexander Dugin is presented as a legitimate primary source on atrocities in Ukraine." (Paul Street)

The website in question noted that the NY Times had a representative in Bucha 24 hours before the first press releases regarding alleged atrocities, and saw nothing. The primary source is the New York Times, not the website. The use of negative adjectives is pronounced (noxious", "ridiculous", "demented" etc) and characteristic of this style of factionalism. The article also includes an iteration, quoting another CounterPunch writer, of an "anti-multipolarity" viewpoint which has surfaced:

“there are tens of thousands of American leftists mesmerized and apparently lobotomized by the promise of a ‘multipolar’ future. [They think] we should abandon our pursuits of post-capitalist democratic futures and embrace the Shangri-La of a world ruled by a bourgeois democracy hegemon, alongside a couple of authoritarian fashy capitalist hegemons.”

Not sure this sort of reaction/dismissal has been thought out.

That said, Counterpunch does publish numerous viewpoints, including those which contradict the above, and the site is not at all the sum of a few of its writers.

Posted by: jayc | Apr 15 2022 18:03 utc | 42

@Scorpion #12:

Russia still has an IMF-dominated Central Bank whose power network is possibly more in charge of the country than the Presidency and Duma…

Absolute bullshit. The Central Bank of Russia has no “power network”. The “liberal” wing of Russian elite was already weak before the start of the Operation, now it has collapsed completely. Events are forcing Nabiullina to move away from IMF doctrines.

I am no longer convinced that Putin is not an at least partially controlled agent…

Laughable bullshit.

The concern trolling goes on.

Posted by: S | Apr 15 2022 18:04 utc | 43

Tu-22 vs Azovstal ..... https://t.me/intelslava/25407

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 18:12 utc | 44

Haven't seen this posted here. From NYT.

""Two Republican members of Congress traveled to the Ukrainian capital of Kiev of Thursday, becoming the first known US officials to visit the country since Russia's Feb.24 invasion.

Sen. Steve Daines (R-MT) and Rep. Victoria Spartz (R-IN) made what was described in The New York Times as a last minute visit at the invitation of the Ukrainian government, with just a day's notice. Spartz is the first Ukrainian-born member of Congress, and has been urging the Biden administration to reestablish a strong diplomatic presence center in Lviv, Western Ukraine, to help coordinate in the crisis.""

Via air Ukraine? Or on a train? How insane! (apologies to Dr Suess)


Posted by: Michael | Apr 15 2022 18:13 utc | 45

Posted by: CarlD | Apr 15 2022 17:27 utc | 3

Carl, I posted in the previous thread links to some Russian ex-military channels who have already accepted that it is an attack with anti-ship missiles, not Neptunes however, on Moskva. There are bunch of ppl here that are more Catholic than the Pope and are following uncritically the MoD statement on the issue. I don't buy what Martyanov says as well, he is hyper-partizan on this issue and came up with some really convoluted explanation, you can check his post on that.

There's plenty of indirect info that supports the missile strike. Occam's razor is good guide in this case as well. There is even a good reason for MoD to lie: admitting that it was UK/US will put Russia in a difficult spot with direct confrontation. That's why the Ukies are lying that it was Neptunes that did it and not the Norwegian NSMs most likely.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 15 2022 18:13 utc | 46

sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 17:29 utc | 35

The difference now is the straight out theft of reserves and other funds. In the past assets have been frozen with sanctions but in the last few years it has become outright theft, I think Iran's frozen funds to compensate 9/11, Venezuela, Afghanistan, and now Russia. Moves to trade in national currencies and offload reserves held in foreign countries has shifted into high gear. already many major deals taking place to allow countries to trade with each other in national currencies. The big three are all aboard, Russia, China and India along with a few smaller countries. Many do not understand that this is the changing of the post WWII era. Center of power has shifted to the east.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 15 2022 18:35 utc | 47

Posted by: S | Apr 15 2022 18:04 utc | 42

is correct. IMF accounting vs CNN agitprop (12 hours ago) is a terrific example of the gullibility, possibly stupidity (ignorance), of First World ("DRS") patriots CONSUMING RU culumny and deviance heaped on SDR paid-in capital by free press influencers.

IMF country profile

ex.

Russian Federation: Transactions with the Fund from May 01, 1984 to March 31, 2022

Russian Federation: Financial Position in the Fund as of March 31, 2022

Tells me, RU free cash flow is not impaired by outstanding obligations to IMF loans.

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 18:36 utc | 48

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 17:57 utc | 39

The root of fascism and western European supremacy summarized in one video...

She did not express any supremacy. Just a recognition of a cultural difference and different life philosophy.
And she is right. Euro kids do not sing songs like this.

Posted by: hopehely | Apr 15 2022 18:41 utc | 49

@Posted by: Roger | Apr 15 2022 18:15 utc | 46

Thanks for the curriculum of her, I had no idea, which demonstrates that the nazism issue is not a problem of Ukraine, it was just implanted there, as a chip, by NATO.

The same way nazism is not a problem of Europe, it is just in the process of being implanted here, as a chip...

Notice that she considers that the "difference" from the Russians emenates from the fact that they do not embrace liberal modern values...That they live way too few and that they have different concepts of violence and death...

Indeed that is the case, what must be put under examination by the Western population is which of the views of what human life must be is more correct and worth living...

https://t.me/inessas100/1132

Recall what they did to elders during these past two years....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 18:44 utc | 50

There is an article on zh today to the effect of: NATO needs a war. A short piece by an ivesting guru.
I feel momentum is swinging in that direction in terms of the tone of the press and public statents. They are waiting to generate public support to some extend. Its a reasonable explanation of the self destructive behavior of various national leaders. I think it is thier intent that it should appear that it is Putin who starts the war - at the level of understanding of the public.
I suspect that this is why Russia is proceeding in measured steps so far - to draw NATO out and to wait for best opportunity (should they see need).

Posted by: jared | Apr 15 2022 18:48 utc | 51

the US false flags ow is nothing more than psycological operations against domestic western audiences. If dumbed down western audiences want to swallow a dog turd and think its chocolate pudding it means nothing to Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 15 2022 18:48 utc | 52

@karlof1 | Apr 15 2022 16:13 utc | 10

I've spent the better part of today reading Sergey Glazyev. He's informative, inspirational, and one might say he is the Russian Michael Hudson.

I was going to mention Glazyev's link to the essay by Alexander Prokhanov, Ideology of Russian Victory, but as usual karlof1 was a step ahead.
(I get up 9 hours ahead of him and still it ain't enough!:)

The link is in Russian but it is a beautiful piece of writing. Glazyev calls it 'rousing'. It's well worth taking the time to translate and read.

It will reduce your anxiety about the pace of Russian advancement in Ukraine and you will feel much better about the situation there and gain
confidence that Russia's 'Victory' will be achieved. Here's that link again, Ideology of Russian Victory

Barkeep, a shot of aquavit for my man karlof1 please!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Apr 15 2022 18:49 utc | 53

@45 Boo

Did you happen to read Saker's word on this? He points to two links... neither of which believe there were missiles... the arguments presented appear worthy

Posted by: crone | Apr 15 2022 18:55 utc | 54

Apparently today was the first day that the TU-22m was used in the operation in Ukraine if the Russians start using them and the TU-160 then the gloves are coming off.

Posted by: Ranko | Apr 15 2022 18:55 utc | 55

Posted by: CarlD | Apr 15 2022 15:52 utc | 3

Former ship owner....interesting. What type of ship did you own and why are you out of the ship owning business now? Not being sarcastic; genuinely curious as I've tended to agree with many of your posts over the past few years and I don't know of many people who've owned actual ships.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 18:55 utc | 56

I agree with Paul Craig Roberts latest comments! Based on what's happened to date; I would've already Closed the valves bringing gas flow to Europe to ZERO! Ive seen explanations here why that hasn't happened that have merit, but I still think that is what Russia should do.
It would make it apparent to the German public that the Industrial Business Leaders were correct and not the Globalist USA Controlled Political Class.

Posted by: EWS111 | Apr 15 2022 18:56 utc | 57

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 15 2022 18:48 utc | 51

And it's sadly effective, too. The Western audience or *consumers* of "news" lap it up and believe every word of it without question. It's sad.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 18:56 utc | 58

Jared,

Here's the original source for the NATO needs a war story at ZH.

https://usawatchdog.com/the-west-needs-wwiii-martin-armstrong/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 18:58 utc | 59

For those who can cope with views that are irritatingly larded with political correct statements in this warmonger's climate, the New Left Review has an interview which, inter alia, has some very interesting information on the popular politics of Ukraine and their evolution since the 1990s.
https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii133/articles/volodymyr-ishchenko-towards-the-abyss/?pc=1434

The interviewee, a political scientist, shows that Ukraine is living up to the hopes of the Nazis who inspired the modern state. It is, as NATO pretends not to know, a place where dissidents are given the Pinochet treatment and Russians are regarded as untermenschen.

There are two more interviews in which the interviewee is clearly saying things which neither the interviewer nor his audience wishes to hear. It is a tribute to the honesty of the reporting of Pepe Escobar and Mike Whitney that they publish what they heard.

Pepe's interview, with Sergey Glazyev, is about the new international financial system that could be emerging. But Glazyev is shockingly frank in his attacks on the Russian Central Bank which he accuses of something very close to treason. In rough terms Russia seems to have lost the equivalent of at least one and a half trillion dollars. https://thecradle.co/Article/interviews/9135


"....Unfortunately, current leadership of the CBR (Central Bank of Russia) remains trapped inside the intellectual cul-de-sac of the Washington paradigm and is unable to become a founding partner in the creation of a new global economic and financial framework....

"...The monetary policy of the CBR, implemented in line with the IMF recommendations, has been devastating for the Russian economy. Combined disasters of the “freezing” of circa $400 billion of foreign exchange reserves and over a trillion dollars siphoned from the economy by oligarchs into western offshore destinations, came with the backdrop of equally disastrous policies of the CBR, which included excessively high real rates combined with a managed float of the exchange rate. We estimate this caused under-investment of circa 20 trillion rubles and under-production of circa 50 trillion rubles in goods.

"...Following Washington’s recommendations, the CBR stopped buying gold over the last two years, effectively forcing domestic gold miners to export full volumes of production, which added up to 500 tons of gold. These days the mistake and the harm it caused are very much obvious..."

Finally there is the interview, at the Unz Review which also hosts Pepe, with Marko Marjanović-Editor of Anti-Empire.
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/ukraines-fate-is-now-in-russias-hands/
Here Marjanovic seems to be cynical about and critical of the Russian effort in Ukraine.

Three interviews all well worth reading and all evidence that, on this side of the dispute, and in sharp contradistinction to the Orwellian MSM and NATO's world of censorship and thoughtcriminality, all we ask of observers is that they use their brains and their eyes. And make our own judgements.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 15 2022 19:02 utc | 60

THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4

This was suggested to others on a site I visit:

Modern Diplomacy - Report by George Eliason

Mr. Eliason is what is known as a Conservative to some in the U.S. He is not fooled by the current crop of politicians in the U.S. He lived in the Donbass for 10 years, Kiev for 2 years. This conference was to help the Duma consider all the angles at work here. Hearing the Russian views as you likely haven't heard them before is a very good antidote to the propaganda of the West/U.S.

Posted by: donten | Apr 15 2022 19:05 utc | 61

@Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 18:44 utc | 49

In fact, it is activities of this kind which, along avoiding large civilian casualties and damage to infrastruture, are giving to the Russian SMO its slow pace...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1514957342789492736

Obviously, no liberal nor post-modern values and, definitely, another concept of violence and death, no doubt, very different from that of NATO...

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 19:15 utc | 62

@Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 18:44 utc | 49

The barbarians have always been the West. In the late fifteenth and sixteenth century Portugal destroyed the peaceful free trading zone in the Indian Ocean and South East Asia through violence, then Western Europe invaded much of the rest of the world practising genocide, land theft and extortion aided by the germs developed in their filthy living conditions. Prior to that they were a violent, uncivilized backwater. But they make up wonderful stories of their civilizational greatness, to hide the fact that they have always been the Barbarians that destroyed other more civilized nations.

Nothing has changed, as the West has shown by the outright theft of the Afghani treasury, and now that of Russia. And the arms resupply to Ukraine so that they can enjoy the theatre of Slavs killing each other.

Posted by: Roger | Apr 15 2022 19:22 utc | 63

Putin made 3 errors or miscalculations in my view:

For One: he fell into Biden's war trap by invading first instead of waiting for Zelensky to invade the Donbas first which was a given to happen any day.
Second: he under estimated to Ukrainian resistance giving the RF a terrible bloody nose and some serious loses.
Third: he didn't bomb the Kiev main "command-decision centers" at the start of his operation and completely missed the power of western 24/7 media war propaganda.

This war will not end well. Shame on the mess.!

Posted by: Hannibal | Apr 15 2022 19:24 utc | 64

To THX1138:

Patrick Lancaster YT channel shows some on the ground, man on the street interviews and views from people behind the Russian front lines:
https://www.youtube.com/c/PatrickLancasterNewsToday/videos

Day XX of the Russian SMO report from The Saker provides a great breakdown of events without a Western corp. media view:
https://thesaker.is

Revolver is a news aggregation site. It links to some western media but a counter narrative link description is sometimes included. But it also links to non western corporate media (like MoA here):
https://www.revolver.news

I don't have links but his name is Scott Ritter. A former Marine, he came to notoriety from involvement in pre Iraq Invasion #2 and ultimately ran counter to the Western corp media narrative. He continues to do that now. I don't have a link but you can easily look how up. One video interview of him is shown here on Gonzalo Lira YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPxpPT4b4vnDlX0sBGz3r4Q/videos

Fyi, these and every single other one will be labeled Putin Shills, Racist, blah blah blah because they don't carry the western corp. media narrative.

Posted by: Corsair66 | Apr 15 2022 19:24 utc | 65

Any visit of Western politicians to "Kiev" or "Lvov" can be understood to be a visit to the premier professional propaganda production facilities in Rzeszow, Poland. The spineless grifters, drug addicts, and child rapists in the US congress would never deign to actually place themselves in a war zone. I'm particularly dismayed but not surprised that the slime mold Spartz (R-IN), of Ukrainian origin no less, would travel to Rzeszow to express its support for the wholesale killing of Slavic peoples.

Posted by: Ted | Apr 15 2022 19:41 utc | 66

Posted by: crone | Apr 15 2022 18:55 utc | 53

Yeah, I read his explanation. A lot of it is arguing that it's not Neptunes that did it, and I agree with that, the rest requires some suspenions of disbelief such as stormy sea and a bit of seawater. BTW, poster circe in the previous thread cited Southfront that the weather during the event was not stormy - there goes the argument that Moskva while being towed sank due to the rough seas. Martyanov claims some sabotage using special units approaching the ship undetected, but that seems even less believable.
The 3 sources on telegram I've read discussing this in detail all agree that these were NATO missiles - there is overwhelming evidence that it's the Norwegian NSM. UK bought the missiles ~2 weeks ago from Poland or Norway; these are the 2 out of 3 countries in Europe that have them. The whole operation seems UK lead and executed, I doubt the ukies had time to learn how to use the new missiles in 2 weeks. But US/UK generously let the ukies run away with the PR that it's their ASMs as it lets them plausibly deny participation.

If you're interested there are in-depth posts on this topic on the 3 main channels I follow for explanations, if they are available, of course:

https://t.me/rybar
https://t.me/genshab
https://t.me/mig41

and more recently https://t.me/atomiccherry

All are in Russian so you need good translation engine.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 15 2022 19:41 utc | 67

@ Hannibal 63

1. Waiting for Zelensky to strike first would have made no difference for the West's propaganda but would have cost the lives of many more Donbass residents. Putin's adage to strike first if a conflict is inevitable holds water you know.
2. Russia certainly hoped that the Ukrainian army would fold quickly - but the fact that it didn't, because of the Nazi ideology being so pervasive, just shows that Russia had to intervene, even if this caused losses. So that's no error either!
3. The command centers are NATO (not Kiev) and for Russia it's not quite the moment yet to bomb those, although it may come to that.

Posted by: Anton | Apr 15 2022 19:43 utc | 68

I found this interesting but not unexpected coming from a US progressive outlet
The Putin caucus undermines Biden at home — while Americans risk their lives in Ukraine
QAnon for Ukraine. You have got to be fucking kidding.

and of course those darn Republicans...
Congress has a new Russia caucus

I think they meant a cabal not cable. My word, a deeply entrenched cabal of Putin lovers in the USG. A complete wrap on all sides of the propaganda sphere.

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 15 2022 19:43 utc | 69

Various blogs and analysts have noted that since the encirclement of the Ukrainian Donbass army is incomplete, the resupply and reinforcement efforts have been proceeding 24/7 to great effect --apart from aerial bombing, are there other means of interdicting them?

Posted by: chet380 | Apr 15 2022 19:44 utc | 70

Re: 68 "Various blogs and analysts have noted that since the encirclement of the Ukrainian Donbass army is incomplete, the resupply and reinforcement efforts have been proceeding 24/7 to great effect"

Good. More to add to the pot when the cauldron is pummelled into oblivion.

Posted by: Mongo | Apr 15 2022 19:47 utc | 71

The Moskva hit a Ukrainian/NATO naval mine

Posted by: Carl | Apr 15 2022 19:48 utc | 72

@ Hannibal | Apr 15 2022 19:24 utc | 63

invading first instead of waiting for Zelensky to invade the Donbas first: incorrect.

Everything you missed is admitted in the first 5 min of this confession--US preparing UAF offensive in Donbas-- by Dr. Phillip Karber on the Russian Way of War.

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 19:48 utc | 73

Aleph Null @ 40

Yes about trees. Most think those who can see the problem are mentally ill so it is rarely mentioned. While omnipresent.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 15 2022 20:26 utc | 74

Posted by: THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4

I wrote a piece on my Substack which provides various links.

Don't know if the filter will allow me to post the link, so here goes:
https://richardstevenhack.substack.com/p/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know?s=r

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Apr 15 2022 20:28 utc | 75

The moskva incident makes me think of the strange industrial "accidents" that were happening on a massive scale in Iran a couple of years ago.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Apr 15 2022 20:31 utc | 76

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1514978631159853066

https://twitter.com/MapsUkraine/status/1515022338181451786

Russia has put its strategic bomber fleet into action. They struck the Azovstal plant in Mariupol and will certainly be involved in a first or second wave, when the pincers strike south and north.

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 15 2022 20:32 utc | 77

@65 Boo

Thank you for your courteous and informative reply...

The "official" Rus MoD explanation appears as "cover" now.

Posted by: crone | Apr 15 2022 20:34 utc | 78

@THX1138 | 15 avr 2022 16:04 utc | 4

My experience is that despite the fact that they talk about it a lot, most intoxicated people are not willing to read an article that challenges their intimate beliefs, they will defend them as they defend their moral values.
Perhaps the last interview of Prof. Mearsheimer, he is quite synthetic.

https://youtu.be/XgiZXgYzI84

Posted by: Ataraxi | Apr 15 2022 20:36 utc | 79

Posted by: THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4

I posted a piece on my Substack with many links to articles that explain the entire war pretty well.

Unfortunately the filter will not let me post it any more. Here is a link to a Google Drive copy which is an 82K PDF which you can download or share the link to. The document is available to anyone with the link.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EI-0juoWsDaDHGmW3AAe2NqVrgPwUaqz/view?usp=sharing

RSH

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Apr 15 2022 20:46 utc | 80

There is no doubt the sinking of the Moskva was an attack and not an accident of some sort. Southfront posted a decent but also pessimistic assessment:

The Moskva strike was well planned and considered: it was launched in stormy conditions, in order to complicate the ship’s damage control and crew evacuation, and it was located far away from other ships of the Black Sea Fleet.

The operation was conducted in full cooperation between the Navy and NATO forces. According to air monitoring data of April 12, a British reconnaissance aircraft RC-135 was actively working in the Black Sea area and UAV RQ-4 Global Hawk flights were recorded at different times. On that day, Alliance reconnaissance confirmed the presence of the Moskva, checked signatures and received comprehensive data on the location of other Russian Black Sea Fleet ships.

The flight data of the U.S. RC-135 and RQ-4 planes became unavailable. The reason was that the aerial reconnaissance aircraft flew with their transponders turned off, and civilian airspace monitoring equipment could not detect them, which is more than a clear sign of a military reconnaissance mission.

The missile strike on the cruiser was carried out using the Neptune missile system, a modern missile system made with military microelectronics manufactured in Western Europe. Thus, it was able to receive external target designation from NATO reconnaissance aircraft. According to a number of reports, the attack on the cruiser also involved Bayraktar UAVs, which served for distraction of the Russian Navy.

There's no denying that Russia is at war with the collective West or more precisely the USA and its vassals. They use expendable Ukraine as the hands on their weapons. With the Moskva it basically had Ukrainian explosives and Ukrainian military who pushed the launch button but the guidance, the target designation and the intelligence effort to make the missile hit its target was NATO. USA is also ramping up its deliveries of advanced weaponry like the switch blades for further escalation. Seems some failed but it won't be long before they will become more effective. USA will stop at nothing to destroy Russia, especially since the dollar is at stake. The dollar which is used to siphon off wealth from the rest of the world to feed and fund the vast global military infrastructure of the USA empire. Without the dollar the empire would collapse. Russia will try to keep the whole operation contained within the Ukrainian space. USA will do everything in its power to escalate the conflict inside Russia's borders.

Russia isn't strong enough to go against the collective West which in it's entirety is also in decline and both Russia and USA rely on the MAD principle. The word nuclear is popping up more frequently in Russian feeds. Everybody knows that when Russia's existence is in danger, as they have said before, it will resort to nuclear weapons. The likelihood of the use of nuclear weapons (apart from the USA use obviously) in my view became more likely with the recent developments.

Posted by: xor | Apr 15 2022 20:50 utc | 81

The Moskova attack is an open declaration of War by US & NATO against Russia. The doves in Russia have no way to walk this back. This is getting very scary.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Apr 15 2022 20:53 utc | 82

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 16:38 utc | 21

This attack on Aaron is completely unwarranted. Not everyone can investigate everything, especially on an alternative media budget. IIRC Aaron has been to Syria in the past. Aaron has considerably more intellectual integrity than most people in alternative media.

I will admit that they - and Glenn Greenwald - were very late to the Ukraine story. It should have been covered since 2014 and certainly since spring, 2021, when it began heating up. However, the Grayzone has done a lot of reporting on Ukrainian neo-Nazis over time.

The important thing is that Aaron, Max and the others at the Grayzone are giving a voice to the alternative narrative at this time. That does not warrant an attack.

RSH

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Apr 15 2022 20:55 utc | 83

@THX1138 | Apr 15 2022 16:04 utc | 4

Try this article: "Retired Swiss Military-Intelligence Officer: 'Is it Possible to Actually Know What Has Been And is Going on in Ukraine?'".

It tells the story from 2014 till now, covering major events in concise fashion. I am sure there are better articles than this, but I have not read one so summarised.

Putin: ‘Unfriendly’ West delaying payments for Russian energy

Posted by: Sundial | Apr 15 2022 20:55 utc | 84

@Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 19:48 utc | 71

Most than a confession looks like a projection...For the first 20 minutes I saw he tells the cadets that all the savage actions and offensives we have been witnessing commited by the Ukrainian Army and nazi battallions were instead committed by the Russians...

Just the proparaganda script we are hearing non-stop now by the Western media since February 24th...

He lies to these cadets all the way, especially about the Maidan snippers which was long time ago debunked lie and what fuelled the protest, as we know, The US DoS....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 21:09 utc | 85

Posted by: sln2002 | Apr 15 2022 16:38 utc | 21

I'm pretty sure that Aaron has made more than one trip to Syria to visit the sites of alleged chemical weapons deployments and other goings on there.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 21:17 utc | 86

If we scroll down this article halfway, here,
we see how the West was covering Ukraine before the war. The hypocrisy is self-evident.

Posted by: George | Apr 15 2022 21:18 utc | 87

@THX1138 | 4

This article is not bad,

https://www.thepostil.com/author/jacques-baud/

Posted by: Richard L | Apr 15 2022 21:23 utc | 88

@PeterAU1
https://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/israel-haven-for-international-scammers-and-fraud/249868

It’s standard business practice. ‘Chosen’ to defraud.

Posted by: Fred | Apr 15 2022 21:27 utc | 89

Zelensky also wanted to make Ukraine the New Israel. ‘Where it will normal to see automatic weapons everywhere including the theaters and restaurants.’ Aka international crime syndicate. A gangster state. Center of global fraud and extortion, human trafficking and drug smuggling.

Posted by: Fred | Apr 15 2022 21:32 utc | 90

@THX1138 | 4

Sorry, this is the article that explains how the war started,

https://natyliesbaldwin.com/2022/04/jacques-baud-the-road-to-war/

Posted by: Richard L | Apr 15 2022 21:32 utc | 91

War correspondent Sladkov on OSCE acting as a component of US intel gathering. Not that it's really news or anything unexpected, and any juicy details he may have uncovered he seems to be saving for television. The auto-translation is almost passable, but the video is short so I'll provide a transcript:

S: We're heading to Donetsk, and I'd like to say a few words about OSCE. Everyone was saying that they were no good, but I said they were good guys. They kept to their patrol routes and along those routes they didn't allow things to get out of control (didn't allow heavy fire) -- but as soon they left, that's when the shooting started.

As it turns out, the US representative in the OSCE said: "Guys, OSCE is an instrument for holding Russia accountable." Interesting, is that the reason they were collecting data? The most straight-forward, vulgar form of espionage, it turns out.

Long story short, in 2018 they set up a bunch of towers around these parts. Set up towers, everyone was asking why, what for. Whaddayamean why, we need to monitor the situation, track incidents of cease-fire violations (they said), and we, back then... Well, what, all of these records would head off somewhere and nothing ever came out of it. Turns out, they were using this data as reconnaissance information. That is, after a while, a notebook was found that had all of this data, from these radio towers.

How they figured it out? The radio towers are still there. OSCE asked the Ukrainian military to pack em' up, but how would they? They're sturdy emplacements, and when things start getting hot and you need to get out fast -- well, they shot at them a bit and called it quits. But the drives were in a different spot, same location.

We picked em' up, identified them, analyzed the characteristics of these records and then we found similar records in a notebook that was left, forgotten, in a location 60km away from the position of the camera (presumably tower). Fine, found it. Also, it turned out that the information from these towers never made it out of DNR, that is, it couldn't be intercepted by Ukrainians in this particular case. And yet, all of this information went to Kiev, and from Kiev made its way back to the front. We found a telephone in Marienka, belonging to this guy, a commander of a nationalist battalion. I'll say more on that on Vesti Nideli (literally Newsweek, Russian tv) and show it to you. And on that phone you had recon information, things they'd give out even to group commanders.

And you could even see how they'd use it to pinpoint / focus fire on Russian military targets. Them's the breaks. OSCE, never would have thunk it. Well, I guess I'm a bit naive.

Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 15 2022 21:41 utc | 92

In case anyone wondered when the neo-nazi ideology we are sponsoring might return to the US, here's your answer.

White supremacist arrested in VT, decorated his rifle in the familiar style of Azov...

https://m.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/wilder-man-charged-after-pipe-bombs-white-power-rifle-discovered/Content?oid=35347757

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 21:42 utc | 93

Posted by: Turk 152 | Apr 15 2022 20:53 utc | 79

Agreed. This has gone as a series of action-reaction moves that increase the pain dialed on both sides with no way back. Borel expressed the view of the main NATO and EU leaders when he went all in on a military solution. IMHO, with the benefit of hindsight it looks like the SMO started too slowly and with too little force not adequate to the amount of forces and western support Ukraine has (and I wish that broken clock Paul Craig Roberts was not correct in his initial assesment, but he looks to be now).

This view is also revealed by an ex-military analyst on the Russian side on the occasion of the Moskva incident (he's intenionally using the previous name of Moskva, Slava), Yandex translation:


The flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the Guards missile cruiser Slava was lost.

And his death closes the initial stage of the military operation in Ukraine which began so irresponsibly and stupidly.

Let this sacrifice bring the final sobering up of illusions.

This war is for a long time. We are facing a dangerous and uncompromising enemy, who was specially raised for the destruction of Russia.

And this is just the beginning.

The silence of this night is our common epitaph to the old warrior, the cruiser and the dead of his crew.

Eternal Glory and memory!

And let the satanic voiceless, blind howl from Ukraine be an extra reminder that there is no way back, no matter how many people would like to go back.

We will stand and win.
@genshab

Posted by: Boo | Apr 15 2022 21:43 utc | 94

@90 follow-up

Now obv. this has existed to a limited degree already in the US as with most euro countries.

But now they see their UA bros doing all kinds of beating people up, every type of terrorist crap, filming it for twitter and tiktok, and the MSM passes it off as heroic. This accelerates fast once it gets going. A repeat of 2020 conditions e.g.
Disproportionate distribution w/in cops, mil, and prisons subpopulation too.

Posted by: ptb | Apr 15 2022 22:01 utc | 95

The same way nazism is not a problem of Europe, it is just in the process of being implanted here, as a chip...

Notice that she considers that the "difference" from the Russians emenates from the fact that they do not embrace liberal modern values...That they live way too few and that they have different concepts of violence and death...

Indeed that is the case, what must be put under examination by the Western population is which of the views of what human life must be is more correct and worth living...

https://t.me/inessas100/1132

Recall what they did to elders during these past two years....

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Apr 15 2022 18:44 utc | 49


For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 1 Cor. 1: 18-19, referring to Isaiah

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 15 2022 22:04 utc | 96

Regarding the Jacques Baud article being mentioned over the past week or so, I noticed something interesting.

The tenth paragraph is:

That is why, since 2014, Russia has systematically demanded the implementation of the Minsk Agreements while refusing to be a party to the negotiations, because it was an internal matter of Ukraine. On the other side, the West — led by France — systematically tried to replace Minsk Agreements with the "Normandy format," which put Russians and Ukrainians face-to-face. However, let us remember that there were never any Russian troops in the Donbass before 23-24 February 2022. Moreover, OSCE observers have never observed the slightest trace of Russian units operating in the Donbass before then. For example, the U.S. intelligence map published by the Washington Post on December 3, 2021 does not show Russian troops in the Donbass.
(boldface is my own emphasis)


Within which, at the original source(s) (I've seen a few republications and translations including those linked in this thread) contains hyperlinks, one of which is the word "never" (bold above) which points to a Foreign Policy article/interview HERE.

After the original publication at FP.com, they went in and edited/removed certain statements and added the following disclaimer at the bottom:

Correction, October 25, 2018: Alexander Hug is the deputy head of the OSCE’s observer mission in Ukraine. An earlier version described him as the head. Clarification, October 25, 2018: In an earlier version, Hug stated that OSCE had not seen direct evidence of Russian involvement in eastern Ukraine. We have removed this remark, as it did not convey his intended view. He goes on to cite facts and observations that his monitors have recorded.

Now I'm going to go back and see if I can find the original at Wayback Machine.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 22:04 utc | 97

There can be a nice chill attitude that can be found here with the bar flies. Im dissapointed in the many uptight people who even though they understand the deep state, that this war is about deleting Russia, (then China) and that this conflict is a Nato USA contrivance..... all this..and more..even though peeps know this they still get lost in the worry like watching a football match i.e fretting over an old ship. Its the crew who are the bigger asset by far. So chill. Take the latest article in the Saker. Some dudes chastising Russia over its Psy Op war. Who cares what millions of armchair idiots think. The Stupid experts in the BBC are still talking about Russias failed attempt to capture Kiev. They are morons even now, even after its been explained it was a clever feint. You fight, you do your best. Who cares about the schoolboy brat like zelensky. Or that other white house Brat.....Ned Price. I much prefer Kadyrov. FFS Price is a creep. Russia is doing well. But it needs to harden up now. No releasing prisnors, no holding back, no blurry 'intervention lines'. No weak links. They need to wake up the Patriotic war warrior fully. Who gives a flying F about Bucha and other buchas. Its woke wank compared to whats at stake. I thought Ukies have more honour, many still do, but the stink coming from Ukie is too strong...its proof the USA is running things. BTW can you see the perfect recipe for a nuclear escalation? The ingredients seem to be all present. Esp under this chain of command Biden, Harris, Pelosi. Can you believe how Fubar these three are? Hopefully we dont end up in a dystopian nightmare, a civilization reset. Where are the cool heads in the West? I believe we (the awake and Russia) just need to keep plugging away....Russia needs to keep the economy going...and be very careful on Victory day.......for a sneak attack on Moscow. I dont respect our enemies esp USA. They are capable of anything. Truly it is all backwards. The bad guys have fooled the masses into thinking they are the good guys. The USA is imploding under the Biden crime family. Also its quantitative easing robbery is coming home to roost. Inflation is indicative of this. Time is now the USA's enemy. The Nov elections will wipe out the Democrats. Food and energy shortages, Hunter Biden, crime waves, border chaos, loss of social cohesiveness, the crazy left. Sorus, the near secret groups worse than sorus. If you like me have been watching and waiting for the Shit to really go down....we have arrived. But Chill let it play itself out without giving you panic attacks. Putin is like Caesarin Gaul right now. Outnumbered, he outplayed them.

Posted by: Dom | Apr 15 2022 22:07 utc | 98

RE: Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 22:04 utc | 94

So...here's the current (edited) version at Foreign Policy:

FP: What’s the OSCE’s official stance on Russia’s involvement in Eastern Ukraine?

AH: If the question is what we have seen on the ground … we have seen convoys leaving and entering Ukraine on dirt roads in the middle of the night, in areas where there is no official crossing. In one border area, we’ve also made this public, including some footage we have put out. We have seen specific types of weapons that we have described in detail, including electronic warfare equipment. We have spoken to prisoners taken by the Ukrainian forces who claim to be members of the Russian armed forces fighting on rotation in Ukraine. We have seen men with the insignia of the Russian Federation, but you can buy this jacket anywhere. We have also seen the insignia of Germany, Spain, and others—but also of the Russians.

And here's the original:

FP: What’s the OSCE’s official stance on Russia’s involvement in Eastern Ukraine?

AH: If the question is what we have seen on the ground, we would not see direct evidence. But we have seen convoys leaving and entering Ukraine on dirt roads in the middle of the night, in areas where there is no official crossing. In one border area, we’ve also made this public, including some footage we have put out. We have seen specific types of weapons that we have described in detail, including electronic warfare equipment. We have spoken to prisoners taken by the Ukrainian forces who claim to be members of the Russian armed forces fighting on rotation in Ukraine. We have seen men with the insignia of the Russian Federation, but you can buy this jacket anywhere. We have also seen the insignia of Germany, Spain, and others—but also of the Russians.

Seriously? LOL - How clever of them. Now I wonder whether Alexander Hug was consulted on this edit, which appears to have been made shortly after (approx. 3 days) the original publication date which was October 25, 2018.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 15 2022 22:11 utc | 99

Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 15 2022 21:41 utc | 89

Here's the follow up video about the OSCE spying scandal from Sladkov, Skiffer. This time a bit longer so good luck with the transcription/translation ;)

https://t.me/Sladkov_plus/5263, yandex translation of the text attached with the video:


[ Video ]
THE MEANNESS OF THE OSCE.

Meanness, in my philosophical understanding, is a treacherous violation of unconditional trust. So these Western guys, who were trusted as representatives of a civilized society, as an authoritative neutral organization, they shat themselves in full.

They wanted to observe everything in Donbass, know about everything and be aware of it. What for? After all, no one knew the results of their work, their influence on pacification was zero. Well... it seems like they believe them all over the world, and we do. It turns out, according to pop-up information, these "obeeshniki" (OSCEshniki) may turn out to be just vulgar scouts.

Their cameras of two hundred times approach were stuck all along the front line, it was possible to observe the moon. They didn't have time to remove one, the special operation began. And the Ukrainian military were too lazy to help the OSCE, fired at the camera from machine guns and fled. And there are flash drives, and there are videos on flash drives, and videos with peculiar targets.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 15 2022 22:17 utc | 100

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