Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 04, 2022

The Bucha Provocation

The Bucha 'Russian' atrocities propaganda onslaught may have worked well in the 'west' but it lacks evidence that Russia had anything to do with it.

The former Indian ambassador M.K. Bhadrakumar calls it an outright fake:

An indignant Moscow has angrily demanded a United Nations Security Council meeting on Monday over the allegations of atrocities by Russian troops in areas around Kiev through the past month. Prima facie, this allegation is fake news but it can mould misperceptions by the time it gets exposed as disinformation.

A Tass report says: “The Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday that the Russian Armed Forces had left Bucha, located in the Kiev region, on March 30, while “the evidence of crimes” emerged only four days later, after Ukrainian Security Service officers had arrived in the town. The ministry stressed that on March 31, the town’s Mayor Anatoly Fedoruk had confirmed in a video address that there were no Russian troops in Bucha. However, he did not say a word about civilians shot dead on the street with their hands tied behind their backs.”

Even more surprising is that within minutes of the “breaking news”, western leaders — heads of state, foreign ministers, former politicians — popped up with statements duly kept ready and only based on the videos, seconds-long videos and a clutch of photos, ready to pour accusations. No expert opinion was sought, no forensic work was done, no opportunity given to the accused to be heard.

I had yesterday, at 15:09 UTC, posted a timeline of the events in Bucha on Twitter. Here is an expanded version.

Mar 30 - Ru troops leave Bucha

Mar 31 - Mayor of Bucha announces town 'liberated', makes no mention of atrocities.

Bucha liberated from Russian invaders – mayor - Ukrinform

The mayor of Bucha in Kyiv region, Anatoliy Fedoruk, stated that the town had been liberated from Russian troops.

Fedoruk said this in his video address posted on Facebook, Ukrinform reports.

"March 31 will go down in the history of our Bucha community as the Day of Liberation. ..."

Apr 1/2 - Azov Nazis enter Bucha

Scenes of desperation and death as the Russians retreat from suburbs outside Kyiv. - New York Times

Ukrainian soldiers from the Azov battalion walked through the remnants of a Russian military convoy in the recently liberated town of Bucha on Saturday, just outside the capital after the Russians withdrew.

Apr 3 - Ukr MinDef publishes video of 'Russian' atrocities

Here are the latest developments in the war in Ukraine. - New York Times, Apr 3

Footage posted by Ukraine’s Defense Ministry and photographs from news agencies showed the bodies of men in civilian clothes on the streets of Bucha, a town northwest of Kyiv. Images showed some corpses with hands bound behind their back.

A screenshot of the original NYT piece was attached to my tweet. It included the sentence:

The New York Times was unable to independently verify the assertions by Ukraine's Defense Ministry and other officials.

The above tweet went viral with more than 3,000 retweets and nearly 5,000 likes. People obviously recognize the importance of the above timeline for the question of who killed whom, when and how.

Gonzalo Lira, who is in Karkiv, has previously directed a professionally made movie. In this video he asserts that the main 'Russian' atrocity video, which shows cars driving down a street strewn with dead bodies, is of a professional high production quality that can only be achieved with high end equipment. He also remarks on additional evidence from the scenes that points to a false flag operation.

Lira comes to the conclusion that the Azov Nazis have killed some people in Bucha that had been too friendly with the Russian 'occupiers' and are now blaming Russia for it.

Azov gangs are known for such atrocities. Based on the above timeline I concur with Lira's conclusion.

Posted by b on April 4, 2022 at 14:34 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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@ karlof1

are these russian boots in the 4th picture down from the top? dead man in bucha

cbc article from today... - russian boots 4th pic down?

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2022 19:46 utc | 101

Is anyone else here mentally and/or physically affected by this scale and depth of Western disinformation? With the Wuhan great psychosis I felt frequently like I was the only sane person in the room as reason fled the building and the Left rallied in favour of biopolitical repression and lockdowns. I found myself doing things I once would not have done, reading Spengler and listening to podcasts by Bronze Age Pervert.

And just when I thought I was recovering, this happens. Vast edifices of journalism and free press, cracked by Assange and COVID coverage, now in full collapse to the point where insanity, lies and indeterminacy have become the norm. And we now support Nazis, thugs and ethnic cleansing.

I grew up in the post-war West, weaned on a diet of WW2 films and ancestral traditions about the good fight against Nazism. It justified the US invasion and capture of Western Europe. One of the greatest PR coups in history: repackaging D-Day as a heroic liberation when it merely replaced fascist totalitarianism with liberal totalitarianism. Was that all lies too? It's like waking up inside a Philip K. Dick novel...

And here we are. And I feel it now in my soul, a weariness, hating the internet, hating the lies upon lies to the point of lethargy and depression. This is the Enlightenment played in slow motion reverse. I feel physically sick over it every day.

Posted by: Patroklos | Apr 4 2022 19:47 utc | 102

The sane among you (you know who you are) are a big help keeping me sane, in these days of rampant lethal fakery.

I also get a kick out of the drive-by pearl-clutchers, getting absolute crickets in response to their cries of horrified anguish. Please do continue ignoring them (and me, for that matter!). The rigorous don't-feed-it culture here is crucial to the terse, informative quality of these threads. Only occasionally do you folks get sidetracked onto something silly like definite articles.

I bear eternal gratitude to everyone (especially b). Outlets retaining some link to sane reality are getting few and far between. If you, like me, are searching for sanity, b's link to the Serena Shim Awards -- their laureates tab -- is nearly comprehensive:

https://serenashimaward.org/laureates/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 4 2022 19:48 utc | 103

This is eliminationist language:

Ukraine should not exist.

If you believe that you can justify anything Russia does.

America is a Land of Sovereigns

Okay, that was the clue I needed. Got y'all figured out now. Was Billmon's Whiskybar always a haven for whacko Sovereign Citizen nutjobs?

I confess I wasn't a regular reader back then but I was familiar with all the anti-Iraq war blogs and had heard of it. Surprised that this is what it evolved into.

Posted by: Nunyer Business | Apr 4 2022 19:48 utc | 104

Thanks Don, for dealing with the numbskull!

Yes, there's Lavrov's meeting today with Arab League Secretary General Abulgeit and Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Arab Republic of Egypt Shinzoo Shoukry that was followed by a presser. Before diving into the Q&A, I'm going to paste Lavrov's prior remarks which IMO are newsworthy and draw an interesting parallel I'll explain after:

I would like to thank our guests, the representatives of the Contact Group of the League of Arab States, which was convened in connection with the situation in Ukraine.

Had a useful conversation. We told in detail about the origin of the current situation. For many years, it has been maturing in line with the line of our Western neighbours to create a real "anti-Russia" from Ukraine, as President of Russia Vladimir Putin spoke about in detail.

Today we have reproduced the history and chronology of these events. Once again, we explained in detail the objectives of the military operation carried out in Ukraine by the decision of President Vladimir Putin. We answered many questions from our friends, including those related to the prospects for resolving the current situation: what are the requirements for this and how it affects our bilateral relations, and interaction with the Arab world, with the countries of the Middle East and North Africa.

These relations are influenced not by the situation itself, but by the absolutely illegitimate, illegal, unprecedented sanctions that the West has announced against Russia. They are hurting the global economy, including countries that are consumers of agricultural products, fertilizers and much more, which is directly related to trade and investment ties with the participation of the Russian Federation.

We expressed our gratitude to the League of Arab States for the decisions it took in connection with and during the Ukrainian crisis, including during the plenary session of all members of the League of Arab States in the first half of March this year.

We reviewed the situation in the Middle East and North Africa. We paid special attention to the Palestinian problem, which has not been resolved for many years. We have a common position. We advocate that all final status issues, including Jerusalem, be resolved exclusively through direct negotiations between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

We appreciate the efforts made by Egypt and a number of other countries participating in the League of Arab States to reunify the Palestinians and restore Palestinian unity. We believe that this is a fundamentally important task that depends on the Arabs themselves. [My Emphasis]

Do note my emphasis on the resolution of Palestine and ponder how is closely resembles the situation with Donbass under UNSCR 2022 (Minsk-2) and the situation faced by Donbass residents which was correctly described as a Genocide. Palestinians have as Lavrov noted been oppressed much longer and in a very similar manner, which many have noted over the decades. Also note the main instigator and protector of both Occupied Palestine and Nazified Ukraine and similarity in tactics, provocations and media manipulation as being the Outlaw US & Anglo Empires.

Now for the Q&A.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 19:51 utc | 105

There's new developments for those interested in the fate of Gazprom's German subsidiary. The federal German regulation body for infrastructure (Bundesnetzagentur) has been made a trustee of the company! See this short article by our German public broadcaster.

Interesting play being enacted here! So apparently, the company wasn't just dissolved, but changed hands. That wasn't clear to me last week. It's difficult to get details, because it's a so called "Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung" (GmbH), something like an LLC in the US. A private company, as opposed to a publicly traded stock corporation. Membership of the company had obviously been transferred from the main Gazprom corporation to some other Gazprom entity (Gazprom export business services LLC) plus some entity named JSC Palmary based in Russia. It's unclear to me whether the Bundesnetzagentur has inserted itself as an additional member, or whether it has hijacked the existing two members' rights. It's also unclear what the mandate of the Bundesnetzagentur now is, and whether this is all strictly legal.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Apr 4 2022 19:55 utc | 106

@Patroklos | Apr 4 2022 19:47 utc | 100

I am with you, it is the most extreme thing I have experienced.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 4 2022 19:56 utc | 107

@ karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 19:51 utc | 103

take a look at the link i provided on the question of the boots @99... or do you know how to tell if they are russian army boots?

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2022 20:00 utc | 108

you can see worse killings after a typical night of disco inferno in any city in the US.

you can see streets that look more bombed and gutted in any city in the US than the Potemkin Butcherville on display in the likes of the NYT etc.

US cops kill more kids in a typical business day than the "genocide and war crimes" in Bucha.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 4 2022 20:01 utc | 109

I believe something is unraveling now in our current world. I believe they are pushing for a full-scale involvement of the "West". A potential WW3 scenario is the nightmare scenario that the most unhinged people bureaucrats wish to push. All of this has become overwhelming in the scope of the current chaos.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 4 2022 20:09 utc | 110

james @103--

I saw your link on previous page and checked the sole pattern with a website that features most types of Russian military boots, but I couldn't find a match. To fit my hypothesis, Russian victims would need to be redressed in mufti where a potential clue would be boots tied opposite the expected manner, but there's no view of the laces in that pic. Thanks for providing the link. IMO, the strongest evidence that it's a false flag provocation is the mayor's address cited by Lavrov and others. I also took note of the residential buildings' conditions--almost completely unscathed instead of bombed-out. IMO, the town was peacefully entered and exited by the Russians then blighted by the Ukronazis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 20:11 utc | 111

keep doubling down, you Putin cheerleaders.

Russian forces invaded Ukraine.

Atrocities ensue.

Seems the denazification is somehow not working.

Posted by: Mr Green Jeans | Apr 4 2022 20:12 utc | 112

Forensic Evidence of Atrocity
Posted by: Circe | Apr 4 2022 16:34 utc | 45

A human being who suffers a gunshot wound to the head will bleed out copious amounts of blood. The brain is requires significant amount of oxygen and blood is the transport mechanism for that oxygen.

The only video I have seen is low quality. G Lira states he has seen identical video in high quality and colour graded (this means manual correction of the as-shot video to ensure all sequences have similar colour balance). Even low quality video should display large black pools of blood emanating from the region of the head and flowing down slope. If the roadway has a camber and vehicles use it (as is seen in the video I have viewed) then there should be track markings where the tires have carried the blood along the roadway same as occurs if you drive through a puddle of rainwater. Your tires will mark the pavement leading away from the puddle.

The absence of any sign of blood loss strongly suggests these individuals were killed elsewhere and were deposited on the roadway so as to create a "crime scene."

Another oddity is the pattern of the bodies. They appear to alternate left and right sides of the road in a regular pattern. If you hear gunshots the normal reaction is to seek cover. If you are on an open road, and have line of sight to the first gunshot victim as these victims did, then you run for the ditch, a house, the fields. You do not stand still in the road at regular intervals waiting for death to approach.

My interpretation of the scene is that: 1) the victims were killed elsewhere and allowed to bleed out at the site of the killings; 2) Dead victims were then transported to the "atrocity location" likely by truck. As the truck went down the street teams of "undertakers" staged the scene by removing a body from the tailgate and dragging it to the roadside while the truck moved ahead for the next placement. This resulted in the alternate body placement which then required all subsequent traffic to swerve right and left to avoid over-running a body; 3) In the video seen by me several bodies were covered by debris such as truck tires. I suspect the victims were in rigor mortis i.e. the bodies had stiffened in their position at time of death and were in essence "frozen" in the death position when transported and placed in the street. The applied weight of tires and other debris was intended to make this fact less obvious. See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3657962/
Attempts at cremation would serve the same objective in addition to disfiguring the body to deter identification and obfuscate other evidence such has blood staining in a direction other than that of normal gravity induced flow.

What is written here is not rocket science. Any doctor, nurse, fireman, SAR personnel, police and military all have real world understanding of these effects. That there is no one in any western country with equivalent knowledge is itself a criminal indictment.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 4 2022 20:12 utc | 113

May I recommend the latest John Helmer article.

I found it very clear, as he posits the plans of UkeUSNato to have been an attack from the north around Rostov-on-don and to encirle the Donbass. (Going inside Russia). While keeping the Russian face to face with the heavy fortifications that they had created inside Ukraine.

ie The USUKies had planned for an attack after a Russian "provocation" they themselves had set up. NOT a defense as most people assume.

The main part of the "destroy Russia" gambit was in fact the sanctions, and an estimation that the Russians would not keep up the battle for more than two weeks.

They are now realising that the morale on the Russian side is not diminishing and the fight will be much longer than they planned for. (panic setting in? it is also expanding = my take)

Worth reading, as he now expects phases 1 and to be followed by much more.

http://johnhelmer.net/how-to-read-the-war-in-reverse-without-outsmarting-yourself/

Posted by: Stonebird | Apr 4 2022 20:14 utc | 114

@Posted by: Sushi | Apr 4 2022 20:12 utc | 111

The only video I have seen is low quality. G Lira states he has seen identical video in high quality and colour graded (this means manual correction of the as-shot video to ensure all sequences have similar colour balance).

I believe high quality video is here https://t.me/realCRP/4130

Look at this other video of the “Bucha massacre”:

It is incredibly well-crafted, with very expensive lenses, high production value, extremely expensive — and delicate — cameras.

The weird thing is, if they just discovered these bodies, why the high production value cameras?

Why did they take the time to shoot such a well crafted video — instead of tending to the bodies, and making sure that they were all dead?

Why are all the bodies undisturbed? In such a situation, people usually drag the bodies out of the street, and usually put them side-by-side. Certainly the military would do that, if only to allow for military vehicles to pass through the street. But they remain in the middle of the street. That just doesn’t make sense.

You do not see any blood, any gore, and the bodies are lying very “tidy”. Again, doesn’t make sense.

I have enough experience with film production, video production, videos of dead bodies, and the lies of the Ukraine side,to be fully convinced that this is a staged hoax.

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 4 2022 20:17 utc | 115

In addition, isn't it interesting that just like in the days of the Waffen SS, and their vile beliefs, and their many, various volunteers that adhered to Nazism from many countries; now in this modern day there are real Nazi's inducted into a National Military (Ukraine). As far as I'm concerned in this day and age this is the only European country in the world with such large devout Nazism, while surely not "all" of the AFU prescribe to this and are defending their homeland, the fact that they even have allowed Nazi's (whom often disobey the direct authority of the Ukraine government) is absolutely astonishing. AND for the West to constantly hand wave this is equally astonishing.

And now we are finding out the many volunteers sent to fight along these Azov and Aidar groups, like the "French" Legion and others.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 4 2022 20:18 utc | 116

@ karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 20:11 utc | 109

thanks.. i agree with your conclusions, although the video that @ Breidablikk | Apr 4 2022 19:27 utc | 93 linked to is also very useful, if one usesthe translation button to read the comments from locals in bucha - which i quoted back @ 97-98...

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2022 20:20 utc | 117

@ Patroklos | Apr 4 2022 19:47 utc | 100

One of the greatest PR coups in history: repackaging D-Day as a heroic liberation when it merely replaced fascist totalitarianism with liberal totalitarianism. Was that all lies too? It's like waking up inside a Philip K. Dick novel...

And here we are. And I feel it now in my soul, a weariness, hating the internet, hating the lies upon lies to the point of lethargy and depression. This is the Enlightenment played in slow motion reverse. I feel physically sick over it every day.

Similar reflections play out in my own head: Did the right side win in the last world war, or was there a right side, or is the world war ever over?

Also, you touch on a phase of profound alienation I'm experiencing. I've always avoided the label "progressive" because I don't believe in progress (only struggle). But up until now I mainly relied on leftish sources, nearly all of which have just putrified, like something I forgot in the back of the fridge too long. Jeffrey St Clair's CounterPunch, Amy Goodman's DemocracyNow!, nearly everyone else on KPFA...

John McCutcheon's new Ukraine song has ruined his beautiful voice for me, forever. My heart breaks like this a dozen times a day, as I lose my former companions. I try to prepare good food and take good care of my body, though. It's a fight just to keep caring enough to keep strong.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 4 2022 20:22 utc | 118

Must read,
All stories well debunked, precise and geo-localisation of events and discoveries


Massacre de Boutcha
MILITARY RUSSIA UKRAINE
UKRAINE – THE MASSACRE OF BUCHA, A UKRAINIAN TIMISOARA
04/04/2022
On 3 April 2022, Ukrainian authorities and Westerners accused Russia of committing a massacre of civilians in Bucha, a town on the outskirts of Kiev. But several inconsistencies indicate that the Bucha massacre is an episode worthy of the Timisoara mass grave case (a textbook case of disinformation).

To understand what really happened, we need to go back to the chronology of events.

[...]

– The mass grave near St Andrei’s church. The trench was dug by the municipal authorities in consultation with Russian troops, to bury civilians who died during the exchange of fire between the Russian and Ukrainian armies. And this trench does not date from 30 or 31 March, but from mid-March, as this video from 13 March shows, where the bodies were decently buried. The video also clearly states that the people buried died as a result of the bombing. So there is nothing to do with civilians executed by the Russian army. According to the video, there are 67 bodies in this mass grave.

– There are nine bodies near, and in, a building that would have housed the Russian armed forces. One of the dead has his hands tied behind his back with tape and cling film (a typical Ukrainian method, visible in all the videos of people tied to poles before being beaten, which have been actively circulating on the internet for several weeks). One of the bodies also visibly shows a bullet wound in the knee, a method of torture used by the Ukrainians against captured Russian soldiers (which they themselves filmed).


– Photos of dead civilians on the Zhitomir highway. This is in fact the same place where a video was filmed on 7 March showing a shoot-out involving members of the so-called territorial defense battalions.

Finally, to complete the picture, in an interview given to the media outlet Meduza (classified as a foreign agent in Russia), a woman living in Bucha and a member of the territorial defense (so not a pro-Russian), says herself that “the people lying on Yablonskaya died because of chaotic shooting”, and she does not report any cases of Russian soldiers shooting civilians during the time they controlled the city. Rather odd.

[...] The Ukrainian troops then reportedly captured, tortured and killed several civilians whom they considered to have collaborated with the Russians. It was at this point that photos appeared of civilians being tortured and killed with their hands tied behind their backs, whose deaths were attributed to the Russians. The same goes for the civilians who were buried in the mass grave near the church in mid-March, even though they died during the bombing and were not executed by Russian soldiers at all.

If we add up the 67 civilians buried in the mass grave, the 20 bodies in Yablonskaya Street, and the nine near and in the building where the Russian soldiers were stationed, we are a long way from the 410 bodies announced by the Ukrainian authorities. Civilians have died in Bucha, but most of them died during the shelling of the city, including shelling by the Ukrainian army, and nine were clearly tortured and murdered by Ukrainian troops for collaborating with Russian troops.

As can be seen, the Bucha massacre case bears a striking resemblance to the Timisoara massacre, but with a Ukrainian twist. It is clear that an impartial and rapid international investigation into what happened in Bucha is needed. But it seems that this is not on the agenda, with the West refusing Russia’s request for an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council on what happened in Bucha.


by Christelle Néant, French reporter in Donbas since 2014.

https://www.donbass-insider.com/2022/04/04/ukraine-the-massacre-of-bucha-a-ukrainian-timisoara/

Posted by: Bastille? | Apr 4 2022 20:27 utc | 119

The Ukrainian forces in Mariupol are surrendering (The "ordinary Ukrainian forces). 265 plus another group of 200.

"In Mariupol, 264 enemy soldiers and officers from the 501st Separate Marine Battalion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (36th Marine Brigade) surrendered."

The RF Armed Forces offer units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and mercenaries from 06.00 Moscow time on April 5 to lay down their arms, leave Mariupol for territories controlled by Kiev, the Defense Ministry said
▪️The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation stated that all those who laid down their arms in Mariupol are guaranteed the preservation of life, it is proposed to announce a “complete silence regime” from 9.30 Moscow time. Both sides must raise flags: from the Russian side - red, from the Ukrainian side - white along the entire line of contact.
****

and Ukraine has formed a full (serious) delegation "to participate in negotiations with Russia, — the decree of the President of Ukraine.

Full delegation:
▪️ARAHAMIYA Davyd Heorhiyovych — People's Deputy of Ukraine, head of the delegation
▪️KOSTIN Andriy Yevhenovych — People's Deputy of Ukraine, member of the delegation (by consent)
▪️LUBINETS Dmytro Valeriiovych — People's Deputy of Ukraine, member of the delegation (by consent)
▪️MALYUSKA Denys Leontiiovych — Minister of Justice of Ukraine, member of the delegation
▪️PODOLIAK Mykhailo Mykhailovych — Adviser to the Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, member of the delegation
▪️REZNIKOV Oleksiy Yuriyovych — Minister of Defense of Ukraine, member of the delegation
▪️TOCHYTSKYI Mykola Stanislavovych — Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, member of the delegation
▪️UMEROV Rustem Enverovych — People's Deputy of Ukraine, member of the delegation (by agreement)
▪️MALYNOVSKYI Oleksandr Petrovych — International Lawyer, Delegation Expert
▪️CHALYI Oleksandr Oleksandrovych — Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Ukraine, expert of the delegation."

*
.... and tomorrow is another day, and I hope the sun shines at last..

Posted by: Stonebird | Apr 4 2022 20:35 utc | 120

103 Cont'd--

Now for the Presser's Q&A:

Question: The Russian special operation in the media is accompanied by a large Western campaign of disinformation and the spread of fakes. The last episode was video footage from Buchi. What is the reason for the obstacles imposed by the British side in holding a meeting of the UN Security Council on Bucha? How will Moscow respond to any attempt by the West to take unilateral steps outside the framework of international law? What is the appropriate mechanism for the proper consideration of the humanitarian dossier on Ukraine, based on facts and arguments, and not on disinformation and falsification?

Sergey Lavrov: As for the disinformation campaign (unfortunately, apparently not the latest in a row, but in chronology – the episode that occurred in the city of Bucha), it accompanies almost all conflicts today. We're used to it. We know how the White Helmets work in Syria. As government forces succeeded in fighting terrorists, their Western patrons were forced to evacuate the White Helmets. They persuaded Jordan to take a few hundred of these people. They promised that in a couple of months they would return them to the territory of Western countries - to Germany, Canada, Great Britain. But almost no one was taken away, because they were convinced that these people are real extremists working "hand in hand" with the "Islamic state" and other terrorist groups.

Already during the military operation in Ukraine, there were many examples when outright fakes were planted. This was an instant propaganda campaign, angry condemnations. A few days later, when the truth was revealed, no one in the West wanted to talk about this topic. We will debunk such fakes. In early March of this year, they exposed the situation, which they tried to present as a tragedy in the maternity hospital in Mariupol.

On March 30 of this year, the Russian armed forces left the area of the city of Bucha as part of the reconfiguration of their presence. For the next three days, the mayor spoke there on television, saying that the city was returning to normal life. The armed forces of Ukraine appeared there, showed the streets where there were no corpses. Three days later, they decided, probably, to organize such a "production".

Let me remind you that yesterday we demanded that a meeting of the UN Security Council be convened. Our British colleagues, who now preside over the Security Council, refused to do so. Our attempt today was also unsuccessful. They refer to the fact that tomorrow they themselves planned to consider the situation in Ukraine in all its aspects. Knowing British diplomacy, I guess that the task is to dissolve this particular fake in the city of Bucha in demagogic arguments about the nature of the Ukrainian crisis. But we are still organizing a press conference in New York today through our Permanent Mission. Detailed materials will be presented there showing the true nature of the events that our Western colleagues are now trying to present in the city of Bucha as evidence of war crimes of the Russian Federation.

We will insist that the crimes committed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, led by nationalist, neo-Nazi battalions, do not remain without consequences.

We are working with our friends and colleagues to apply the relevant norms of international humanitarian law and to ensure that these accusations are based on clear, specific irrefutable facts. That's what we're going to do, unlike those who fabricate these facts.

Question: The other day you spoke about the progress that has been made in the Russian-Ukrainian talks on Ukraine's neutrality. Due to new circumstances, what are the chances for a peaceful resolution of the conflict and the achievement of agreements that will subsequently be consolidated at the summit of the two presidents?

Sergey Lavrov: Following the round of talks in Istanbul on March 29 this year, we saw the emergence of realism in the position of the Ukrainian delegation regarding ways to ensure Ukraine's security. It became clear to Kiev representatives that it is impossible to obtain security guarantees in NATO and that joining the alliance should be forgotten. More realism about the need to enshrine in the treaty the neutral status of Ukraine, as well as the non-nuclear one, given the "flirtations" with this topic, which have been voiced over the past few months from the lips of the leaders of Ukraine.

The position of the Ukrainian delegation showed much more understanding of the situation regarding the status of crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics. How these "notes" will be translated into the language of the contractual "paper" remains to be understood. Contacts continue via videoconference. Delegations are working quite intensively. At least, such work is underway on our part.

As for the odds. There is always a chance. I've said this many times. We are aimed at realizing all these chances. The objectives of our operation were announced by President of Russia Vladimir Putin. We are working to ensure that they are fixed in the agreement, which is now being discussed and prepared. I hope that in the end it will be created and finally formulated in all its provisions.

Vladimir Putin has repeatedly said that the summit of the presidents of Russia and Ukraine can take place when there is a result, for the consolidation of which it can be convened.

Question: How do the Russian-Ukrainian talks affect the course of the Russian operation in Ukraine?

Sergey Lavrov: It is not the negotiations that influence the course of the operation, but the external "players" who are trying to prevent these negotiations and keep the clashes on the ground as long as possible. We know who gives such "advice" to our Ukrainian neighbors. This is done for unsuitable purposes that have nothing to do with the interests of the Ukrainian people, the security of Ukraine and security in the OSCE area, in our European region.

I hope that those who lead the delegation of Kiev at the above-mentioned negotiations will begin to be guided by their own, national interests and their people. They will not listen to "advisers" from afar, who sometimes only want to see how the crisis situation will accumulate.

Question: US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "war criminal" and called on him to be tried for war crimes. What does this mean in the context of Russia's international reputation?

Sergey Lavrov: First of all, this shows that many American politicians who stood at the origins of the Iraq war under well-known pretexts, ruined Libya together with their NATO partners, invaded Syria, and not everything is good with their conscience. I think you also heard how members of the Joe Biden Administration later commented on these statements, explaining that he "did not mean this."

We are interested in how the Russian people look at this situation (and any other). As far as he understands the tasks that our Armed Forces are solving. Most importantly, he [Russian nation] realizes that this is not about Ukraine at all, but about the fact that the collective West, finally and unquestioningly united under the "roof" of Washington, is the very model of a unipolar world that it would like to preserve with all the truths and untruths (mostly untruths).

The point is that this "sovereign" of the unipolar world is allowed everything. The rest can't even stutter about how to keep themselves safe. This "sovereign" around our borders and other competitors created situations that now have to be regulated, including by rather harsh methods.

The West treated the long-standing calls and incantations that it was necessary to fulfill the agreements on the indivisibility of security with a complete lack of any desire to discuss anything. This arrogance, which has overwhelmed all possible levels, will not lead to good. This is not in the interests of any peoples of the world, including the Western countries themselves.

Ready for an honest conversation. It's to be honest. We are used to our partners showing us speckled cards. It's no longer serious. This is a common game of appointing the guilty and confirming one's own greatness. [My Emphasis]

An excellent question: When will seriousness return, or must such a return be forced? IMO, it will need to be forced upon the soon to be demoted "sovereign"; doused with the water of Truth and Reality, its "Winkie" slaves will finally be freed.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 20:43 utc | 121

On Gazporm Germany:
The federal German regulation body for infrastructure (Bundesnetzagentur) has been made a trustee of the company!

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Apr 4 2022 19:55 utc | 104

Unless the building housing Gazporm Germany is sitting on a gas field no gas is going to come out of it. LOL

I thought the Germans are supposed to be smart? (no offence b!) /sarc

IN OTHER NEWS:
The amount of fresh trolling here is certainly on the rise so we're definitely causing some butt-hurt. Congrats to b and the commenters, keep it up people!

Remember: you get the most flak when on target!

Работайте, братья!

Posted by: A.L. | Apr 4 2022 20:45 utc | 122

@ Aleph_Null | Apr 4 2022 20:22 utc | 116

I know how you feel, I'm getting exactly the same way. Formerly sceptical people are turning into gullible zombies, is this an effect of the lockdowns, isolation making people more suggestable? or social media or both?

Posted by: MarkU | Apr 4 2022 20:53 utc | 123

The Pentagon is cautiously not outspoken on Bucha.
..from a "senior defense official"...
Clearly, we would expect to see the reports coming out of Bucha to be investigated as part of that larger issue of war crimes, but again, I can't, we can't, the Pentagon can't independently and single-handedly confirm them but we're also not in any position to refute those claims. I mean, the imagery is pretty stark as it is. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 4 2022 20:57 utc | 124

the empire strikes back. . .
NYTimes, Apr 4
Satellite images show bodies lay in Bucha for weeks, despite Russian claims.

. . .In a Telegram post on Sunday, the [Russia] ministry suggested that the bodies had been recently placed on the streets after “all Russian units withdrew completely from Bucha” around March 30.
But a review of videos and satellite imagery by The Times shows that many of the civilians were killed more than three weeks ago, when Russia’s military was in control of the town.
One video filmed by a local council member on April 2 shows multiple bodies scattered along Yablonska Street in Bucha. Satellite images provided to The Times by Maxar Technologies show that at least 11 of those had been on the street since March 11, when Russia, by its own account, occupied the town.. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 4 2022 21:05 utc | 125

Aleph_Null @116--

Do accept my apology for not welcoming you back to commenting sooner; you've always provided good insight and analysis!

Yes, I agree with your alienation, but it was those sources who abandoned you. I've found Traditional Conservative sources to be far better. Within the Outlaw US Empire, the only valid sources IMO are those that opposed Obama, Clinton and Trump, and we could go further back in time to include Reagan/Bush, the Clintons and W/Cheney and the Neoliberals policies and personages they promoted that're now on the retreat globally.

As for your italicized question, soon after the Russia/China Joint Declaration of 4 February, on 9 February I wrote the following short essay, "Back to the Future: China & Russia Vow to Fulfill WW2's Victory Goals & Reinvigorate the Architecture to Achieve Them" that led with the Manifesto contained at the Declaration's beginning:

The sides [Russia & China] call on all States to pursue well-being for all and, with these ends, to build dialogue and mutual trust, strengthen mutual understanding, champion such universal human values as peace, development, equality, justice, democracy and freedom, respect the rights of peoples to independently determine the development paths of their countries and the sovereignty and the security and development interests of States, to protect the United Nations-driven international architecture and the international law-based world order, seek genuine multipolarity with the United Nations and its Security Council playing a central and coordinating role, promote more democratic international relations, and ensure peace, stability and sustainable development across the world.

I continued to link the manifesto with WW2's unfulfilled war aims, the Four Freedoms, and argued that Is precisely what Russia and China aim to do--to finish WW2 by finally vanquishing the last of the Fascists and Nazis, all of which exist in the West protected by the main Fascist, the Outlaw US Empire.

So, yes. What's happening now is Part Two of the Great Patriotic War or as the Chinese called it, The Great Anti-Fascist War, and you are 100% correct to see events with that POV.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 21:09 utc | 126

and the Beeb talks photos. . .
BBC, Apr 4
Fact-checking Russian claims about Bucha killings

The video is grainy but a closer analysis of it shows that what is claimed to be a moving arm, is actually a mark in the bottom right corner of the vehicle's windscreen.. . by four days rigor mortis has "usually subsided". etc.. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 4 2022 21:11 utc | 127

#DebunkingFakes

WarOnFakes.com on the situation in #Bucha:

👉 Firstly, Russian troops left Bucha on March 30th. Here is the official statement (https://z.mil.ru/spec_mil_oper/news/more.htm?id=12415372@egNews).

👉 Secondly, on March 31, another evidence of a cynical provocation in Bucha was heard – a statement by Bucha Mayor Anatoly Fedoruk (https://t.me/vityzeva/52988). “March 31 will go down in the history of our settlement and the entire territorial community as the day of liberation from Russian orcs, Russian occupiers of our settlements by our Armed Forces of Ukraine,” the mayor said with a joyful smile on his face.

❓ Would he rejoice if dozens of his countrymen at that time were lying on the streets shot? Why does he say nothing in his statement about the atrocities of the Russian executioners? About torture, rape and murder?

👉 Moreover, the first unit of the Ukrainian armed forces to enter Bucha was the special forces of the National Guard of Ukraine. The official telegram channel of the National Guard posted a video (https://t.me/UA_National_Police/2932), filmed by the fighters of this detachment themselves. We can see on this video that the Ukrainian military calmly pass through the streets of the city – and no “mountains of corpses” are visible on these streets.

❓So where did the corpses on the streets of Bucha come from - and who are these people?

👉 The answer may lie in the video of the territorial defense of Ukraine, which clearly states the question “Can I shoot at them if there are no blue armbands?” to which a positive answer follows. The video was originally posted by the leader of the territorial defense Sergey “Botsman” Korotkikh.

(https://t.me/vityzeva/53030)👉 By the way, on the videos distributed by the Ukrainian side, almost all the corpses have white bandages. This is a distinctive sign of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the civilian population.

Learn more (https://waronfakes.com/civil/strong-global-lies-over-bucha-how-people-s-minds-are-manipulated-strong/) and draw your own conclusions from these facts.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 4 2022 21:21 utc | 128

While I'm not commenting on the war per se, Andrei Martyanov notes something of interest re German oil and gas contracts, to wit:

Russia de facto introduced the gas Ruble, oil Ruble is coming because both Gazprom and Rosneft exited their EU subsidiaries and now have nothing to do with them--let Germany "nationalize" them (I guess one can always use additional office furniture and empty storage facilities) and now EU doesn't have contracts for gas and oil, since, before the latest events, contracts were signed with... and you have guessed it, EU subsidiaries of Gazprom and Rosneft which now has no relation to either Gazprom or Rosneft. Good luck, EU, negotiating new contracts with Gazprom and Rosneft. I heard Gazprom Bank is a very good bank, and, most importantly, it is in Russia which precludes the repeat of West's standard procedure of robbing others, such as was freezing Russia's currency assets worth in excess of $300 billion.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 4 2022 21:21 utc | 129

Melani, [04/04/2022 18:56]
[Forwarded from Readovka]
[ Video ]
Экс-депутат Верховной Рады Илья Кива заявил, что произошедшее в Буче — спланированная акция контрразведки Украины при содействии британской разведки MI6

«Они приехали рано утром, оцепили район, раскидали трупы, а потом нагнали туда журналистов. Для этого именно туда вернулся шут Зеленский, чтобы поднять интерес международной прессы к случившейся якобы трагедии, но это все фейк. Это все — заранее срежесированная постановка, которая должна, в первую очередь, вызвать у вас агрессию и ненависть, но этого не было», — заявил Кива.

Translation:

Former deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Ilya Kiva said that what happened in Bucha was a planned action by the counterintelligence of Ukraine with the assistance of British intelligence MI6

“They arrived early in the morning, cordoned off the area, scattered the corpses, and then overtook the journalists there. For this, Zelensky the jester returned there to raise the interest of the international press in the alleged tragedy that happened, but this is all fake. This is all a pre-staged production, which should, first of all, arouse aggression and hatred in you, but this was not, ”Kiva said.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 4 2022 21:25 utc | 130

Russian friend send me that, obviously from NYT but cant find it. Satellite pictures from 19th of march already showing the dea bodies in Bucha. I am confused. Can somebody explain this?

Posted by: rico rose | Apr 4 2022 21:27 utc | 131

The false flag attack that many have been predicting has happened, and predictably the substance of it is not important to the Empire, not the human lives lost, it simply furnishes a justification for what was already planned and intended. Permission is not required as the mass media provides it on all of our behalf.

I don't see the point of endlessly going over it to prove Russia's innocence. It's obvious, as have been all the ruthless inhuman false flags to gain consent for war even in this new century. There is no end to the malice of this dying animal of an Empire.
I cannot imagine what patience and control it must require of the Russian leadership to not just nuke the allies to dust. People who make condescending remarks about Putin and Lavrov being naive need to take a good hard look at the realities of this world and how these two individuals and others around the world have been diligently and cautiously working behind the scenes to bring about this change for a very long time.

My heart goes out to the people o fRussia and Ukraine for the terrible loss of life.

Posted by: K | Apr 4 2022 21:33 utc | 132

Scotch Bingeington | Apr 4 2022 19:55 utc | 104

Hi Scotch, I am very interested in that cabal.

Like you I have not yet the full information to make a cohesive picture of the affair. But let's try to make some speculations on this.

For me the Bundesnetzagentur is just the acting office to fulfill the strategy of Habeck, leading nowhere.

To my knowledge there was a urgent project of ruling to coerce the owners of the underground facilities to fill these caverns in defined steps up to 90% of the capacity until fall 2022. Sounds pretty cute.

The funny thingy here is that the German Greens have no clue like always but do now learn by the hard way that Neoliberalism bites. And boy it really hurts.

See that the owners of the u-storages are not the owners of the gaz stored in. And the ins an outs of gaz-units are subjet of private firms so there is no state control over that. Now the German state wants to coerce the space owners to commence to fill their sites with gaz that does not belong to them. Arguing by this they claim the owners of the sites are responsible for these being empty by now.

Of course the target of this is only Russian Gazprom which holds through its daughters nearly a quarter of the storage capacity in Germany alone. And I learned GP holds the bulk of the German-Russian Import-trade-contracts with long durance and very comfortable prices just on this daughters.

No, by coercing the German branch of GP to fill this huge capacity of Germans gaz-storage by own means and on own costs the Russians preferred to abandon the whole thing from one day to another. In this exact moment the Bundesnetzagentur is the owner of empty storages and Habeck has his second Qatar-moment.

Why this? Can't they win anymore, our smart atlanticist Olive-Greens? No. They can't. With the overtaking of the GP's German daughters they get the handle of the storage, but only that. The owner of the gaz is Gazprom Russia and this is why all the preferred longliving delivery-contracts are nil and void because the mother did get rid of their daughters at 31. of March 2022. Somebody else must fill the caverns. Ask your beloved friends that have comprised you as everybody can see from your face, but now the obligatory kow-tow must be much deeper, Dr. Habeck!

Please tell me my dreams came true!

Posted by: Piepenbrink | Apr 4 2022 21:34 utc | 133

Richard Steven Hack | Apr 4 2022 21:21 utc | 126

Thanks I hadn't read that re the European gazprom and the contracts. I think there is a move in Russia to sell all goods the unfriendly countries only in rubles. That would be oil and gas and whatever else Europe is still buying and for America that would cover Uranium wich US did not want to sanction ad fertilizer which apparently US has taken off the sanctions list.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 4 2022 21:34 utc | 134

Patroklos #100


And here we are. And I feel it now in my soul, a weariness, hating the internet, hating the lies upon lies to the point of lethargy and depression. This is the Enlightenment played in slow motion reverse. I feel physically sick over it every day.

Thank you Patroklos, that entire post captured the adversity of life. The solitude of seeing clearly among a multitude that walks awake and yet is asleep to the machinations of evil and propaganda in our world.

I share that distress and sadness. However there is much human effort put into orchestrating goodwill and nurturing of the spirit. I find moments of solace in the forests and seashores plus the chanting of many people singing their (eastern) devotional tunes is uplifting. Meeting like minds and spirits is a rare event. When the burden is great I find much help in the Bach Flower Remedies, have used them always throughout my long journey. Stay well.


Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 4 2022 21:36 utc | 135

Actually the satellite picture, if it is real, dont proof anything about who did it. But it explain why people still wear white fabric and carry russian food stuff. There have been shelling of this town for the whole week before 19th. If true this was result of ongoing fighting. But it still doesnt explain why no blood and wounds on victims are visible. This story start to become a mystery. Actually this picture explain why US is so hesitant to say it was a war crime.

Posted by: rico rose | Apr 4 2022 21:37 utc | 136

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 4 2022 21:21 utc | 126
I saw this also. It now is looking like Russia is off the hook for the previous Euro contracts and can well ask for anything of real value it desires for its energy (soon to be every) commodity.
As a side: I for one miss your sitreps and logic here.

Posted by: George | Apr 4 2022 21:38 utc | 137

Ok, I just wanted to say about my complaints on the commentary about Bucha from earlier today in the other thread… never mind. Thank you to b and the rest of the commenters for your posts (I’ve even forgiven Lavrov for his what-I-thought-to-be ridiculous comments about that.)

I’ll refer to Dmitry Polyansky for the last word.

https://tass.com/world/1432333

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Apr 4 2022 21:39 utc | 138

@Boo #24

It is undeniable that the course of this conflict is benefiting the tobacco industry. If I were Carla Del Ponte, I would start my investigation right there.

Posted by: Marjorie | Apr 4 2022 21:42 utc | 139

Russia bad. Azov Neo-Nazis good.

April 1, 2022: Zelensky was interviewed on FoxNews and Baier asked him about the NeoNazis....

Source of text from Sputnik

https://sputniknews.com/20220404/watch-zelensky-defends-neo-nazi-azov-battalion-in-fox-interview---they-were-defending-our-country-1094480479.html

“I wanted to have you clear something up for us. This is: these reports about the Azov Battalion, that is said to be a Nazi-affiliated organization operating as a militia in your country, said to be committing their own atrocities,” Fox News’ Bret Baier asked Zelensky via video link on Friday.

“What should Americans know about that unit, about those reports?”

Ze:“So, Azov was one of those many battalions. They are what they are, they were defending our country. And later, I want to explain to you, everything from all the components of those volunteer battalions later, were incorporated into the military of Ukraine. Those Azov fighters are no longer a self-established group, they are a component of the Ukrainian military. [..]

However, despite getting such a telling answer to Baier’s question, Fox News cut the exchange from the video of the interview that was posted to their official YouTube account, nor is it mentioned in the write-up posted on Fox News’ website.

Full interview found on Baier's YT channel without the edits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJB-gtHdBzc&t=2s

See when the West choose not to know, prefers to dismiss the crimes of the Ukrainian Neo-Nazis.

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 4 2022 21:42 utc | 140

Helicopters Out of Mariupol

Posted by: Circe | Apr 2 2022 8:39 utc | 206


The 2nd chopper event he mentions, I agree was planned and begs the question: Who helped the Nazis plan it? What intelligence is guiding them? Their own? I doubt it. It also begs this one: Why do the Ukies still have so many choppers?

And . . .
Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 4 2022 16:52 utc | 49

It turns out that a total of not 2 helicopters shot down by the Allies, but at least 8 were involved in the operation to get people out of Mariupol. Where are the others and who or what did they come for? Why were only two hit?

Good questions yet unanswered.

Travelling nap of the earth in near darkness takes not only great skill and daring it also requires the most sophisticated navigational hardware.

Travelling Dnipro to a position east of Enerhodar (54 miles according to Google) then 115 miles south-south east to safe distance 20 miles off the coast in the Sea of Azov before making a turn to the east until offshore Mariopul (100 miles) with a final short leg (20 miles) inbound to the harbour area represents a cumulative 309 miles.

The Mi-8MT has a range of 308 miles which means it would arrive flying on fumes. Even if the point of departure was Nikopol this saves only 50 miles. Low and fast burns gas.

Transport helicopters are not typically equipped with advanced navigational aids, with FLIR, with cockpits designed for night flying, or sensors to detect and evade enemy radar emissions. A transport helicopter may be able to engage in the close follow of a specialized helicopter with the requisite equipment.

It is not known that Ukraine has the required specialized helicopters. The US 160th Special Operations Regiment does operate the required equipment. This equipment cannot simply be loaned and be effective. The low level flight path puts you the wrong side of the deadman's curve. You needn't worry about Russian AA; a power line will take you down equally well. You do not simply jump into a helo and go balls to the walls to complete the mission. The requisite night flying skills require considerable proficiency and constant training.

If high value western operatives are present in the city the host government has significant motive to assure their evacuation. If a captured combatant lacks a Ukie serial number then he is a Francs-tireur, an unlawful combatant subject to summary execution.

It would be a significant embarrassment to a western nation if public intellectual Bernard-Henri Lévy were found film making in the bowels of the Azovstal (he has participated in other conflicts (South Ossetia, Georgia, during the 2008 South Ossetia war; with Libyan rebels in Benghazi; during the 2014 Euromaidan he was in Kiev actively promoting the coup). If US, UK or Canadian Special Forces were also found to be present it would explain the cause of the conflict.

It would not be impossible for elements of the 160th SOAR (The Nightstalkers) to covertly enter Ukraine and reach Nikopol or Denipro. When fitted with an Extended Range Fuel System (ERFS), the UH-60M can support two 870 L (230 gal) or 1,700 L (450 gal) external fuel tanks giving a range of 1,380 miles (2,221 km).

This would permit one or more UH-60's to be loaded with suffcient fuel to refuel an Mi-8MT for its return trip from Mariopul to place of departure. The other assets would go elsewhere. The distance from Mariopul to various destinations is as follows:

Mariopul to Batumi, Georgia is 430 miles
Mariopul to Constanta, Romania is 472 miles
Mariopul to Samsun, Turkey is 404 miles

If 8 helicopters were involved it is speculated that they were a mix of Mi8MT Ukrainian assets and foreign assets with ground fuel transfer capability. The foreign assets lead the Ukrainian assets to the Mariopul destination and refuel them. The Ukrainian assets return to their point of departure, the foreign assets load foreign Francs-tireurs and depart for a NATO nation (or soon to be NATO nation).

If this speculation is correct I think it likely the foreign assets flew to Samsun, Turkey. Flying 404 covert miles from country 404 seems most appropriate.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 4 2022 21:43 utc | 141

Does anyone know if there is a reliable source for the deathtoll at Bucha? I read somewhere that it was a number from a morgue. There are a number of causes: deaths caused by the battles before the Russians left, deaths from bombings after the Russians left, executions. There could be other causes. People could have been brought in too. And maybe not all dead people in the pictures are really dead.

I mean, it is easy to assume the Ukrainians have gone on a rampage and killed hundreds.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 4 2022 21:43 utc | 142

@ Don Bacon | Apr 4 2022 21:05 utc | 123

thanks... for those of us unable to access the whole article, can you offer any of the images they provide, or more of the story? thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2022 21:46 utc | 143

@ rico rose | Apr 4 2022 21:27 utc | 128

thanks for that... do they leave bodies lying on the streets for 2 weeks?

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2022 21:49 utc | 144

@ Sushi | Apr 4 2022 21:43 utc | 138

Mariupol to Sinop (Mariupol International Airport – Sinop Airport) is 369 miles

Posted by: james | Apr 4 2022 21:52 utc | 145

Posted by: Fractional Ownership | Apr 4 2022 18:13 utc | 64

I am not permitted a blog post here, nor to mention the name of my blog which is satirical in nature but they allow this. They allow you to abuse us each personally.

Posted by: Berndt Braincell | Apr 4 2022 22:05 utc | 146

@ George 134

Berlin placed Gazprom Germania in receivership and is now offering State Guarantees [state-backed loans] to Lure Buyers for the Unit. Gazprom Germania GmbH owned energy supplier Wingas GmbH and a gas storage firm Astora.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/germany-offers-state-guarantees-to-lure-buyers-for-gazprom-unit-1.1747331

(Bloomberg) -- Germany is seeking a buyer for Gazprom PJSC’s unit in the country by offering state-backed loans for private companies willing to take parts of or the entire business, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The German government is in talks with private buyers interested in Gazprom Germania GmbH or some of its units, which include energy supplier Wingas GmbH and gas storage firm Astora, said the person, who asked not to be named as the talks are private. Buyers would be offered guarantees and loans through the state-owned development lender KfW IPEX-Bank, the person said.

Gazprom subsidiaries in Europe are coming under pressure as clients and business partners refuse to do business with them, raising the prospect that some won’t survive. Germany hasn’t ruled out nationalizing parts of Gazprom Germania as a last resort, though Berlin wants to find another solution, the person said. Meanwhile, the U.K. could end up temporarily running a retail arm of Gazprom that supplies a fifth of Britain’s commercial gas.[.]

What the dumbwits have brought upon themselves. Shooting themselves in the foot and head while aiming the weapon at Putin. So the buyer(s) will be forced to make new contracts at higher prices, open a bank account in Moscow and pay in rubles Oouuch.

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 4 2022 22:06 utc | 147

At least back when I was in the U.S. Air Force, 1969-72, we had airmen stationed in Sinop.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 4 2022 22:16 utc | 148

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 20:43 utc | 119

Thanks for posting that. Lavrov is impressive.

Posted by: D J G | Apr 4 2022 22:24 utc | 149

Stonebird #80


We have already learnt a little about what the other Bio-labs were working on - taking ADN samples to try to make a "directed" virus etc. specifically against particular ethnic groups. I hope I am wrong here but this is really getting filthy.


Thank you. IMO it has been filthy for a century and more. The masters of war are filthy people and need to be dethroned pronto.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 4 2022 22:26 utc | 150

Petri Krohn #78

Thank you Petri, you are a wizard. :)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 4 2022 22:30 utc | 151

karlof1 #103

Lavrov:

We reviewed the situation in the Middle East and North Africa. We paid special attention to the Palestinian problem, which has not been resolved for many years. We have a common position. We advocate that all final status issues, including Jerusalem, be resolved exclusively through direct negotiations between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

We appreciate the efforts made by Egypt and a number of other countries participating in the League of Arab States to reunify the Palestinians and restore Palestinian unity. We believe that this is a fundamentally important task that depends on the Arabs themselves.

Thank you, that is a fascinating quote from Lavrov - particularly in these times.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 4 2022 22:41 utc | 152

Posted by: Mr Green Jeans | Apr 4 2022 20:12 utc | 110

Are you suggesting that the eradication of nazists from eastern europe would be any less commendable an effort if the russian president was anybody else?

I fail to see the reason for the personalist obsession, or its appeal.

The russian operation in Ukraine is a just war, if such a thing exists, and would be so regardless of presidential surnames.

Patroklos | Apr 4 2022 19:47 utc | 100
One of the greatest PR coups in history: repackaging D-Day as a heroic liberation when it merely replaced fascist totalitarianism with liberal totalitarianism. Was that all lies too? It's like waking up inside a Philip K. Dick novel...

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 4 2022 20:22 utc | 116
Similar reflections play out in my own head: Did the right side win in the last world war, or was there a right side, or is the world war ever over?

Paraphrasing Dick in VALIS - The Cold War Never Ended.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 4 2022 22:51 utc | 153

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 4 2022 21:34 utc | 131
"US did not want to sanction ad fertilizer which apparently US has taken off the sanctions list."

And the fact that the US or EU take some commodity off the sanctions list doesn't prevent Russia from asking for rubles for those items, or even continuing to refuse to sell them. I vote Russia just cuts the West off from everything. Burn, baby, burn.

People talk about "collapsing economies." Economies don't "collapse" - they change. As long as someone has something and someone else wants that something, there is an economy. It may not be a monetary economy, or a profitable one, but it's an economy. Trade is a basic human activity based on the simple fact that not everyone can do or make everything.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 4 2022 22:56 utc | 154

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 4 2022 19:56 utc | 105
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 4 2022 20:22 utc | 116
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 4 2022 21:36 utc | 132

In whatever form it takes, may the Great Spirit be with you all. God bless the forests and lonely beaches where all this refuse and waste vanishes. Yes, take care of body and mind, good food, music and old literature.

Thanks guys, your solidarity has warmed my heart.


Posted by: Patroklos | Apr 4 2022 23:09 utc | 155

Cynthia Chung's to be applauded for her recent work on the roots of the Ukraine Crisis. Her newest installment is now available here, "How the Ukrainian Nationalist Movement Post-WWII was Bought and Paid for by the CIA" and supplements Wayne Madsen's 2015 article I've linked to before and can be found on my VK wall. After a long historical introduction, Chung tells us her primary sources:

" In 1998, the Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group (IWG), at the behest of Congress, launched what became the largest congressionally mandated, single-subject declassification effort in history. As a result, more than 8.5 million pages of records have been opened to the public under the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act (P.L. 105-246) and the Japanese Imperial Government Disclosure Act (P.L. 106-567). These records include operational files of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the CIA, the FBI and Army intelligence. IWG issued three reports to Congress between 1999 and 2007.

A research group was put together to compile and organise key elements of this massive newly declassified database, the result was the publication of “U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis” in 2005, and “Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War” in 2011, both published by the National Archives, and which will be used as a key reference for the rest of this paper. [My Emphasis]

The first publication, US Intelligence and The Nazis, can be downloaded as a pdf from this site. The second, Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War, can be found and downloaded here.

Chung then writes what she'd combed from those sources in a chronological manner. I'm thrilled at her work, although there's much more to read about in her sources than just the Ukrainian links.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 23:10 utc | 156

"US did not want to sanction ad fertilizer which apparently US has taken off the sanctions list."

And the fact that the US or EU take some commodity off the sanctions list doesn't prevent Russia from asking for rubles fo

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 4 2022 22:56 utc | 151 "

Exactly ! Russia should " sanction " any items that the EU and ZioAmerica intentionally left off their sanction lists. Obviously those things must be important to the ZioWest and Russia should cease all exports of said items to said countries. This would immediately inflict great pain on their economies and social systems. Why Russia hasnt done this yet is beyond reason to me.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 4 2022 23:10 utc | 157

USA would perhaps seek to lower gasokine prices in the wake of Congress elections.

But, how?

Biden talks about using strategic reserves, but there are doubts it really is technically possible, especially at Biden marked rates.

https://aftershock.news/?q=node/1090896

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 4 2022 23:17 utc | 158

DC@154 wo says" Why Russia hasn't done this yet is beyond reason to me.", probably because Russia sees no reason to give mericans an actual reason to dislike them?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Apr 4 2022 23:22 utc | 159

Qui bono, or what does this false flags accomplish today?

These false flags usually serve as instigator and motivator for own populace to go into war (or place sanctions, which are war in itself), and as a "legal" reason in eyes of the world.

It works if the enemy is military (economically) weaker. So, right up to about 2014/2015 Syrian civil war and all fake gassing it served a purpose, then it become obsolete. Because enemy (Russia) was too military strong to attack it, and it started to become self sufficient ecconomicaly.

Same situation now. They are useless - you can motivate zombie western masses for new ethnic cleansing of Slavs, but they are too strong now and it is suicide to attack Russia.

So, IMO, today, in situation like this, all that propaganda only serve purpose to distract Joe from raising fuel prices and all else, to make him forget who caused it really, and give him purpose and comfort that all those extra bucks out of his pocket "save" some Ukie lives or makes life harder for those dirty Ruskies.

But humans as selfish beings, and it won't be long before Joe realizes he cares much more for his cash and stomach than anyone else, and hating dirty Slavs won't fill his belly.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 4 2022 23:30 utc | 160

@rico rose # 128

Russian friend send me that, obviously from NYT but cant find it. Satellite pictures from 19th of march already showing the dea bodies in Bucha. I am confused. Can somebody explain this?

@rico rose # 133


Actually the satellite picture, if it is real, dont proof anything about who did it. But it explain why people still wear white fabric and carry russian food stuff. There have been shelling of this town for the whole week before 19th. If true this was result of ongoing fighting. But it still doesnt explain why no blood and wounds on victims are visible.

Agreed about the satellite evidence that has come out being compelling. It shows that at least many of those folks dead on Bucha's main street, Yablunska, were already killed between March 10-16 or so. The evidence points to death from shelling, which, given the extant Russian occupation and Ukrainian harassment, means Ukrainian shelling. That doesn't explain those corpses with hands tied, or found in basement torture dungeons (those were probably SBU interrogating "collaborators" and possibly some Russian MIA under the direction of MI6/CIA types, some of them could also be post-withdrawal execution of actual or suspected "collaborators"), but obviously not all the dead have to have the same story, and it could also explain the "mass graves" that were found (i.e. collected victims of shellings, and/or SBU executions, which occurred during the occupation).

As to the lack of blood, fatal blast injuries often cause only internal bleeding and hence don't drain much blood. Also if they were lying in the street for 2 weeks, blood could have been washed away by melting snow or rain. Though it does seem odd that the people would let those bodies rot there for 2 weeks; maybe they were all afraid to come out due to shelling, or maybe the NY Times is pulling a fast one with the timing. Obviously a serious investigation needs to happen, but it's even more obvious that the Empire doesn't want one, they just want to blame Russia and escalate.

It would seem that UK postponed the UNSC hearing because the Empire wants to give Ukraine more time to dispose of all the bodies before autopsies can be performed to determine, at a minimum, time and cause of death, and to destroy and/or plant other evidence.

A decent thread about the new satellite evidence, combined with street-level photo evidence, can be found here.

Meanwhile, a really gruesome (you have been warned) video of Ukrainians executing 4 Russian POWs is making the rounds (Telegraph higher quality, Twitter lower quality). Those are actual, proven war crimes, but you won't find the Empire even mention that one. That's all you need to know about the Empire's character, class, integrity, etc. - essentially, without being cartoonish, the Empire is 100% pure, unadulterated evil.

Posted by: CalDre | Apr 4 2022 23:34 utc | 161

uncle tungsten @149--

Thanks for your reply! Lavrov has said he doesn't want to write a memoir or autobiography. I'd write his bio if no Russian wants that task as it would be an honor.

Deplorable Commissar @154--

Russia hasn't taken such action as it knows very well the populace of those nations have no to very little say in their governance, and to impose such "pain" would be unconscionable--a humanitarian crime. In case you haven't noticed, Russia is Pro-Human while its enemies are Anti-Human; and that's a primary reason why 7/8ths of the world support Russia in its actions.

Arioch @155--

The problem with the SPR as I wrote the other day is its content and lack of proximity to those areas of the nation most in need of relief from high fuel costs. And worse, when it's depleted, how is the USG going to pay for its refilling? The average cost of the SPR's contents is under $30/bbl; replacement would come at over $100/bbl. Its announced usage over the years has always been seen as political grandstanding that solves nothing. Nothing can save the D-party in 2022, or Biden in 2024. Unfortunately, that will do nothing to help 340 Million citizens while continuing to protect the .1%

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 23:35 utc | 162

I have just read on RT UK that dear old Ursula VD of the EU'S has announced the EU'S is sending a Team of Investigators to Bucha to work with the Ukrainian Military to find evidence of War Crimes against Russia and bring those responsible to account. There you have it. Certainly not an investigation in the sense that it would be impartial, factual and objective. By the time they arrive the whole story will have been totally and thoroughly discredited. WTF are these people doing in Office at all? I am disgusted that the West continues to lie lie lie about everything backed up by the MSM propaganda. I want to see the French Germans Italian Greeks and other people's around the world to start a revolution against their Govt and takeover with a People'say Government to try to get some decency truth justice and honour back into politics.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 4 2022 23:41 utc | 163

karlof1@159
Sounds like a great deal for the oil industry, frackers included. Lots of profits and plenty left over for the PACs.
But not so hot for the taxpayers and consumers

Posted by: bevin | Apr 4 2022 23:49 utc | 164

Fractional #64
It seems you are the worst; ranting and behaving emotionally and calling everyone else names.

What is wrong? All the facts here upsetting your feelings about what the Ukraine situation should be about but isnt? Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, right? Your ukros are beasts , as are your Nato establishment types caught in Mariopol.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Africom US general Clotier in Mariopol with the Nazi dogs? Hang him high!

Posted by: Brother Ma | Apr 4 2022 23:49 utc | 165

Putin's speech to the Russian people 3/16/22..

https://www.informationclearinghouse.info/57053.htm

Posted by: vetinLA | Apr 4 2022 23:50 utc | 166

In response to

"
DC@154 wo says" Why Russia hasn't done this yet is beyond reason to me.", probably because Russia sees no reason to give mericans an actual reason to dislike them?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Apr 4 2022 23:22 utc | 156
"

Agreed! Russia and China are setting an example of not beating Might-Makes-Right by using current military superiority to conquer empire. They want the meme of global private finance centered society to die of its inherent anti-humanistic structure

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 4 2022 23:51 utc | 167

@ Posted by: Zanon | Apr 4 2022 19:21 utc | 91

https://twitter.com/morphonios/status/1510955147299594251
Please note that none of those victims wears shoes!

Three of them are half-naked; none wears an outdoor jaket.

????? - (haven't seen that being addressed yet.)

The food bags may have been littered before. The victims seem to be dumped there as well.
May their murderers be found and prosecuted!

Posted by: G-man | Apr 4 2022 23:53 utc | 168

@ karlof1 | Apr 4 2022 21:09 utc | 124

The Great Anti-Fascist War -- sounds a bit like eternal struggle, I like it!

All the "left" venues here in California are trickles, compared to the Colorado River of demographic amplitude available to people like Tucker Carlson. I have to set aside my loathing for TC because I'm interested in what he's telling US Americans about biowarfare labs. A little like learning how to cook with bitter-melon.

Your account of WW2's continuation is compelling. This passage (from the delightful read you assigned us, your Back to the Future essay) reminds me of some Ward Churchill I've been reading:

every president and member of Congress since Truman/October 1945 has violated their oath of office--the upshot is the complete, 100%, illegitimacy of the USA's Federal Government, particularly the office of the President for that person is designated Chief Magistrate whose primary if not exclusive job is to ensure the enforcement of law--and that means obeying the UN Charter for upon its ratification it became an organic part of US Law

In my reading of Churchill, the illegitimacy of the USA's governmental structures, including the Constitution, stems from the manifest reality that the whole pile of legal fiction has been solely motivated by murderous theft from day one, good buddy.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 4 2022 23:53 utc | 169

About bodies rotting for 2 weeks and more this seems to be the rule in Ukraine. The videos by Paul Lancaster show that and the witnesses he interviews mentions it as well (as also of dead people in the basements for a couple of days).
Welcome to Western individualism and lack of any form of religion. Add to it the cowardness of the Ukrainians rulers and military who want a war without declaration and neutral parties to help civilians and wounded,

Posted by: Tomx | Apr 4 2022 23:56 utc | 170

@CalDre | Apr 4 2022 23:34 utc | 158
Thanks for reply and link. This helped me to figure out the frame. Bucha incident will take the same path like all the other hyped proofs of russian cruelty, like mariupol hospital. After a week nobody actually remember in the west. Only the general scare of putler will sustain. I would like to express something optimistic, but cant. Clausewitz writes, the purpose of war is, to make your enemy without own will. This is what we will see in the end. Only question is, the enemy is just ukraine or all of NATO?

Posted by: rico rose | Apr 5 2022 0:19 utc | 171

Aleph_Null @166--

Thanks for your reply! I've posted many articles to my VK Wall since Russia announced its security proposals in December, many revolving around speeches and pressers by Putin and Lavrov since many can't access them. here's the one I've pinned at the top, "A Short Missive on THE Issue of Our Times: 'If we are ever to restore peace, then we need to understand where the hostility comes from, how, and why.'"

I didn't know you're now in California where I once dwelt. Where, if I might ask? Oh, I know I posted this link before, but again here's Ehret's most recent that ought to be read in conjunction with Chung's I posted up page.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 5 2022 0:19 utc | 172

George Galloway interviews the director of "Ukraine On Fire" and "Revealing Ukraine", Igor Lopatonok.

FULL INTERVIEW: Ukraine is on fire, they tried to extinguish the film of that name, but failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4oBScO-fBw

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 5 2022 0:28 utc | 173

This massacre makes the headlines the time Mariupol falls ...........

Posted by: G-man | Apr 5 2022 0:32 utc | 174

Chung's essay proves beyond doubt what we now know--the CIA runs Ukraine and its Nazi ideology is no accident, but a feature thanks to Truman and traitors like Allan Dulles.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 5 2022 0:33 utc | 175

Bastille? @ 117

Correct. Mass graves in time of war are not unheard of for obvious reasons. Typically a force would bring their dead home but that is not always possible. When I was in Korea long after the war mass graves were dug up when some project commenced to build something.

Allegations at this point as to what happened. Guilty until proven innocent in the Napoleonic code.

Some of the trolls may just be enveloped with the propaganda and a sever lack of historical perspective. I guess the difference is not asking "why do you think this way. Explain your position".

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 5 2022 0:36 utc | 176

Not to worry Azov are in Bucha according to NYT.

"Ukrainian soldiers from the Azov battalion in Bucha, a town northwest of Kyiv, where footage showed scattered bodies and widespread destruction on the streets on Saturday.Credit...Daniel Berehulak for The New York Times"
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/03/world/europe/russia-war-crimes-ukraine.html

Link to the picture. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/04/03/world/03ukraine-blog-hrw/merlin_204873420_52f10314-f989-4db8-b084-b69a93d5cebc-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp

Reuters pics of so called territorial defense - politically correct term for a mob of street hod that have been handed guns. #rd pic in is one of these hoods in a supermarket in Bucha where he looks to have been smashing any Russia labeled item off the shelves just after the start of the war.
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/inside-ukraines-territorial-defence-forc-idUSRTS65QSM

In some of the videos circulating on Bucha, a number of vehicles can be seen that have been run over by an apc, one with a body inside. that is something the nationalist battalions have form on as there have been a number of videos in the last month of them simply running over cars.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 5 2022 0:50 utc | 177

Seems Gazprom-Germany has been set under control of the Bundesnetzagentur
to keep the existing contracts running.

Posted by: G-man | Apr 5 2022 0:52 utc | 178

The fact the Brits refused the security council meeting demanded by the Russians to prove the provocation was actually committed by Azov or other Ukrainian thugs, proves that the story is a fake. Cui bono? Who benefits? It is the same modus operandi perfected in Syria where the US-UK spooks falsely accuse those they are fighting of committing atrocities committed by thugs under control of the US/UK spooks.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Apr 5 2022 1:00 utc | 179

There really is no limit to the depravity of Ukrainians who came to power after 2014, be they military or civilian. They are in a class of their own.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Apr 4 2022 15:25 utc | 20

The character of the 2014 Regime exactly mirrors that of the United States, the United Kingdom and NATO, who trained, funded, installed, arm, advise, and fully collaborate with it.

Posted by: John Kennard | Apr 5 2022 1:28 utc | 180

https://www.sott.net/article/466314-The-truth-about-Bucha-is-out-there-but-perhaps-too-inconvenient-to-be-discovered

This Ritter piece has likely been posted already,
But I’ll post it again just for posterity,

Posted by: Cadence calls | Apr 5 2022 1:30 utc | 181

Abe | Apr 4 2022 23:30 utc | 157

Yes, just as with the "Covid" assault, so with drumming up Russophobic war fever the primary purpose of Western elites is to wage socioeconomic and physical-via-biochemical war on their own people.

Given this context the purpose of propaganda lies about alleged Russian atrocities is to drum up enough hatred and fear of the "external enemy" to keep the sheeple distracted from what their own institutions and elites are doing to them, and to render them more willing to see their own immiseration as some kind of "sacrifice" for a fake version of the "common good", when in fact their real common good would be to turn against, overthrow and destroy their own institutions and elites.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Apr 5 2022 1:33 utc | 182

This Maxar satellite analysis business seems suspect. It's a brand new(in the US, originally Canadian) company used by defense/intel, loyal to no one except its clients. With Bellingcat again playing the deboonker-in-chief.

At this point, do we trust parties like this not to just make up whichever date they need to in order to "win"?

The point about the bodies not being found for several weeks in an area relatively undamaged by shelling - aside from some road damage which looks intentional - makes no sense at all. That is what they are using this satellite evidence to claim.

So again, can we trust the western military satellite analyses? When they can just slap any old date on anything? Or even manipulate the image in other ways.

Posted by: Allie Maikup | Apr 5 2022 1:39 utc | 183

@174 I just learned that Russians troops have been raping Ukrainian children and branding women with swastikas.
I expect tomorrow to hear about Russian soldiers barbecuing babies.

https://yahoo.com/news/russian-soldiers-rape-children-brand-100023213.html

Posted by: dh | Apr 5 2022 1:47 utc | 184

Gonzalo Lira today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtLO63Dr7FU&ab_channel=GonzaloLira said many bodies clearly had rigor mortise and were shot somewhere else and dumped AFTER rigor set in, so they looked like mannequins. When the Russian POWs were shot in the legs, there were pools of blood. I didn't see pools of blood under the bodies in Bucha, did you?

Posted by: SET | Apr 5 2022 1:49 utc | 185


Gilbert Doctorow agrees with former Indian ambassador Bhadrakumar, it's an outright fake and all a lie.

Doctorow lets loose about the phony 'Russian massacre' in Bucha, and much more.... His last paragraph here really packs a punch if you ask me; as he calls out scoundrels like Macron and Scholz, ass-kissers of the US-centralized Empire of mendacity and atrocity.


https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/04/04/the-world-is-flat-alleged-atrocities-in-the-city-of-bucha-as-latest-us-uk-ukrainian-false-flag-operation/

".....It has been reported extensively by Russian television crews traveling with the Donbas republic forces how departing Ukrainian troops fired wantonly on the towns they had been occupying for the past eight years but now were forced to give up. It has been extensively reported by Russian press teams interviewing refugees leaving Mariupol via humanitarian corridors how the Azov battalion and other nationalist radical troops attached to the Ukrainian army were shooting anyone daring to come out of the basements to risk joining the escape routes out of the city. None of this was picked up by Western media. But it surely was picked up by the Kiev propagandists, who decided to turn it inside out and sell it further.

In summation, there are reasons why wars are fought to the death, why many crucial disputes between nations are not amenable to diplomacy until one of the sides has been utterly destroyed. We are living through such a moment in history. And it is most sad, here in Europe, to see elected leaders like Macron, like Scholz play along with the villains to gain favor with the overlord in Washington, D.C. May their cowardice and betrayal of the interests of their own peoples be recorded here and now for posterity."

Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 5 2022 2:00 utc | 186

@111 Sushi

It is very odd not to see blood stains on surfaces around the victims, although stains and spatter might not be obvious when the scene is filmed from a moving vehicle. However, I didn't either see any significant blood on or around the corpses in the basement location. The media are not questioning this anomaly? It's just so gruesome if they were all shot somewhere else and then dumped to stage a war crimes scene.

I too thought about the fact that people instinctively run for cover in different directions, while most of these victims appeared to have dropped or been dumped in succession by the side of the road. Also, what about the ones that had their hands tied? Were they escaping from some place with hands tied when they were shot? Some were bound others not...it all appears inconsistent with reality.

Apparently, one man had a sac of potatoes beside him, and then there was the guy lying dead with a bike over his feet. The body was straight and perpendicular to the green bike. I'm not an expert, but that man did not look like he fell off that bike in that position when he was shot. He too looked like he was moved. How can anyone believe exiting Russians would stop to pose him like that? It's ludicrous.

Except for the missing blood stains, if it were staged, it was done by someone who thought of using...props to make it appear like the victims were caught off guard while going about their business. All the scene should have been recorded/photographed up close for detailed examination later.

I noticed in a CNN reportage from Bucha that before the Ukies bagged and loaded the bodies they took a photo of some, but in other instances they did not. They also collected shell casings, but who can trust anything with a wide open, unsecured crime scene?

@138 Sushi

Yes, I suspected the Ukies couldn't have pulled off that evacuation operation on their own. Your comprehensive explanation cleared it all up for me.

I make it a habit to read your comments whether they're addressed to me or not. Always thought-provoking and informative.

Thanks.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 5 2022 2:02 utc | 187

Posted by: dh | Apr 5 2022 1:47 utc | 180

Unintended consequences?:

I read a while back; first week of military operation, that Zelensky ordered prosecutors to release criminals from prison to help fight the Russians. Sex offenders might have combat experience.

How's that working out?

Posted by: Circe | Apr 5 2022 2:19 utc | 188

Could I remind everyone that these are people we are talking about not "bodies". We don't even know who they are or if their loved ones will ever find them.
I'm ok with links to atrocities as we can choose to click or not.
But isn't it enough already here on the thread to be turning the deaths of these people into a circus?
it is ghoulish to me.
yes I can look away, but wouldn't it be better to preserve more human dignity here? Save this level of abstraction for twitter?

Posted by: K | Apr 5 2022 2:23 utc | 189

Here again is the NYTimes article supposedly addressing the alleged hundreds of massacred bodies with made-up stories about a few supposed bodies. Just some made-up dialogue about shapes that may be bodies, with dates the Times gives us, locations unknown..

NYTimes, Apr 4 -- with quotes and comments
Satellite images show bodies lay in Bucha for weeks, despite Russian claims.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html

Satellite images provided to The Times by Maxar Technologies show that at least 11 of those had been on the street since March 11, when Russia, by its own account, occupied the town.

there is no evidence of that, just two aerial photos dated Feb 28 and March 19, the first with no "bodies" the second with "six bodies"
https://vp.nyt.com/video/2022/04/04/99816_1_4-bucha-gif_wg_720p.mp4

To confirm when the bodies appeared, and when the civilians were likely killed, the Visual Investigations team at The Times conducted a before-and-after analysis of satellite imagery. The images show dark objects of similar size to a human body appearing on Yablonska Street between March 9 and March 11. The objects appear in the precise positions in which the bodies were found after Ukrainian forces reclaimed Bucha, as the footage from April 1 shows[??]. Further analysis shows that the objects remained in those position for over three weeks.[no proof of that]

A dead body near abandoned cars on Yablonska Street in Bucha, Ukraine, on Apr. 2. The body had been on the street since Mar. 21, satellite imagery shows. [sure] Credit...Kievskiy Dvizh via Instagram / Maxar Technologies
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/04/04/video/04vid-bucha-split/04vid-bucha-split-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp

These are just some of the civilian bodies discovered since Saturday. The Associated Press published images of at least six dead men lying together in the rear of an office building* some with hands tied behind their backs. The building is one mile west of the other victims found along Yablonska Street.

* There are no such photos at the AP link.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-middle-east-black-sea-religion-a97f60a50df0d8dc1e0f126a33144560

Another mile further along, a photographer with The Times discovered the body of a man with a gunshot wound to his head lying beside a bicycle.[sure]

We just have to take the word of the Visual Investigations team at The Times!
Maxar Technologies Inc. is a space technology company headquartered in Westminster, Colorado, United States, specializing in manufacturing communication, Earth observation, radar, and on-orbit servicing satellites, satellite products, and related services.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 5 2022 2:27 utc | 190

I would think that the most compelling evidence that this is a false-flag is this: the moment the allegations were made it was the RUSSIANS who insisted on calling a UN Security Council session to debate it, and it was the UK who refused to allow that session to go ahead.

I don't know about anyone else, but to me that signifies that both of them know the truth of the matter, but only one of them wants the truth to come out.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 5 2022 2:29 utc | 191

RSH #170
Just watched Igor Lopatonok's Ukraine On Fire. Yeah it's back on youboob but they need to fix the warning: "The following content has been identified by the YouTube community as inappropriate or offensive to some audiences" and replace "Youtube community" with "U.S. State Department".

Posted by: krypton | Apr 5 2022 2:38 utc | 192

The frantic, frenetic and frankly desperate bleatings of the Mighty Wurlitzer has been cranked up to 11 here in the US. All the media slavering for war like Pavlov's dogs when their master rings the bell. I guess human nature hasn't changed, but technology sure has.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Apr 5 2022 2:57 utc | 193

I assess with a high degree of confidence that Prime Minister Imran Khan will soon be assassinated.

I hope I turn out to be wrong on this.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 5 2022 3:00 utc | 194

I expect tomorrow to hear about Russian soldiers barbecuing babies.

Posted by: dh | Apr 5 2022 1:47 utc | 180

Already done long ago:

"The Muscovites would make gridirons of the parents to roast the children on."

Old Imperial Chinese report on a northern clash.

Posted by: John Kennard | Apr 5 2022 3:00 utc | 195

Nuland: F the EU, and it shall pass thx to US/UK
>France's Macron says he wants EU Russian oil and coal ban 'this week' after Bucha 'war crimes'
>EU weighs ban on Russian oil over war crimes as pressure builds on Berlin
>US increased crude oil supplies from Russia by 43 percent, or 100,000 barrels per day, over past week

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 5 2022 3:04 utc | 196

This is basically an economic war. I wonder if at some point, Russia or China start seizing the property of American oligarchs. That would be a hoot. Goose and gander sort of thing.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Apr 5 2022 3:07 utc | 197

Saker: Eurolemmings
. . .love it!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 5 2022 3:20 utc | 198

I hate that civilians are caught in the crossfire, but there are two sides in this fight and Ukrainians have criminal elements and Neo-Nazis fighting on their side, and in the fog of war truth is lost.

I'm angry that USNATO and Zelensky himself are using Ukrainian civilians as cannon fodder.

Unfortunately, this is war and Russia must prevail. I really believe the Empire has given Putin no other option possible. Damn them for it.

However, I happened to see after I wrote my reply to @180, the video in the link where appeared an older, unconsolable, simple woman who buried her son alone in the yard, that she claimed a Russian soldier indiscriminately shot. Suddenly, I didn't care who she was, all I wanted to do was be there with her, take that poor woman in my arms, comfort her, sit with her, love her and dry her tears.

I'm with Russia all the way, but I can't deny my nature or her motherly pain or understand senseless, unprovoked and uncalled for brutality from any side. There is no room for depravity of any kind in Russia's cause.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 5 2022 3:41 utc | 199

The NY Times analysis implies that dozens of bodies were strewn about the suburb and lay in the street for some weeks. That doesn't seem possible, and the recorded reactions of the area's mayor as well as the NY Times photojournalist in the 48 hours after the Russian troops had left are not at all consistent with such a scene. There is information that local civilians had been killed in a series of shelling incidents earlier in March, and a temporary makeshift burial area may have been created next to a local church. Maxar's satellite photos appear to show both. It is possible the stage-managed scene which appeared Sunday morning featured corpses from a local "cleansing" operation as well as repurposed civilian casualties from previous shelling events.

Posted by: jayc | Apr 5 2022 3:50 utc | 200

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