Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 11, 2022

The Reasons For And Dangers Behind The War In Ukraine

The war in the Ukraine continues but the propaganda hysteria around it seems to have calmed down a bit as reality is setting in.

This gives room from more sane voices to be heard by the public. I will start with the Russian ones.

The Russian ambassador to the U.S., Anatoly Antonov, was interviewed by Newsweek. He explained Russia's political and judicial reasoning behind the war:

"The special operation in Ukraine is the result of the unwillingness of the Kiev regime to stop the genocide of Russians by fulfilling its obligations under the international commitments," Antonov told Newsweek. "The desire of the NATO member states to use the territory of a neighboring state to establish a foothold in the struggle against Russia is also obvious."
...
To Russia, Antonov said that the [Maidan] revolution was a "bloody coup d'état instigated by the West" in which "ultranationalist ideas came to power in Kiev." He said that policies viewed by Moscow as hostile such as the removal of Russian as a national language and the rehabilitation of nationalist Ukrainian figures such as Stepan Bandera, who collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II, had "taken root in Ukraine under external administration."
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Antonov argued that it was the "nationalist frenzy and revanchist sentiments of the Kiev regime" that resulted in the effective death of the Minsk deals as Ukraine chose "the path of rapid militarization" with help from abroad.

"The NATO member countries have commenced a military exploration of Ukraine," Antonov said. "It was flooded with Western weaponry while President Vladimir Zelensky announced Kiev's plans to acquire nuclear weapons which would threaten not only neighboring countries, but also the entire world."
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"In this context, Russia had no other choice but to recognize the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics," Antonov said. "Then, in accordance with Chapter VII, Article 51 of the U.N. Charter, with the authorization of the Federation Council of Russia and in execution of the Treaties of Friendship and Mutual Assistance with the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin made a decision to begin a special military operation."

"Its aim is to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine in order to reduce military threats posed by the Western states that are trying to use the fraternal Ukrainian people in the struggle against the Russians," he added.

Sergey Karaganov is a high level Russian political scientist and commentator who is also a presidential advisor in Moscow. He was interviewed (in English) by the Italian Corriere Della Sera

Sergey Karaganov: «We are at war with the West. The European security order is illegitimate»

An excerpt:

How can an attack be justified on such grounds?

«For 25 years people like myself have said that NATO expansion would lead to war. Putin said several times that if it came to Ukraine becoming a member of NATO, there would be no Ukraine anymore. In Bucharest in 2008 there was a plan of quick accession of Ukraine and Georgia to NATO. It was blocked by the efforts of Germany and France, but since that time Ukraine has been integrated into NATO. It was pumped up by weaponry and its troops were trained by NATO, their army getting stronger and stronger day by day. In addition we saw a very rapid increase of neo-Nazi sentiment especially among the military, the society and the ruling elite. It was clear that Ukraine had become something like Germany around 1936-1937. The war was inevitable, they were a spearhead of NATO. We made the very hard decision to strike first, before the threat becomes deadlier».

I recommend to read the whole Karaganov interview to better understand the Russian thinking.

"It was clear that Ukraine had become something like Germany around 1936-1937," said Karaganov. The 'western' public has difficulties to understand that. But it is the prevailing Russian view and when analyzing the developments in the Ukraine over the last years with Russian history in mind one can easily come to the same conclusion.

It is also what the Canadian Russia expert Patrick Armstrong had mentioned as the most important item after he had read Putin's speeches at the start of the war:

Had I been at home I would have read Putin’s speech earlier and understood sooner. What he is talking about is what the Soviet Union tried to do from 1933 onwards: namely to stop Hitler before he got started. This time Russia is able to do it by itself. In other words, Putin feels that he is making a pre-emptive attack to stop June 1941. This is very serious indeed and indicates that the Russians are going to keep going until they feel that they can safely stop.

The Russian view is not really that far fetched.

Here is a recent news agency video of officials of the Ukrainian Security Service SBU in front of a destroyed house seemingly praying with a priest for the deceased.


bigger

Note the fascist Right Sector patch the official carries on his arm and back. The SBU has become a kind of Gestapo tasked with eliminating opposition elements in Ukraine. The UN's OHCHR, the OSCE, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International have all reported about the SBU's many crimes.

There is also an 'SS Galizien' patch on the officers back which refers to the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) which fought with Nazi-Germany against the Soviet Union. Like many other SS division the 1st Galician was involved in serious war-crimes but later mostly whitewashed. After the war many of its surviving officers fled to Canada and to the United States.

The offspring of those officers and other immigrants from the Ukraine played a noticeable role in lobbying for the war.

That has been successful as the U.S. had chosen to support extreme elements in Ukraine in opposition to peace. This has, as Aaron Maté writes, moved president Zelensky from an election campaign position of finding peace with Russia to becoming a war maniac:

On a warm October day in 2019, the eminent Russia studies professor Stephen F. Cohen and I sat down in Manhattan for what would be our last in-person interview (Cohen passed away in September 2020 at the age of 81).
...
"Zelensky ran as a peace candidate," Cohen explained. "He won an enormous mandate to make peace. So, that means he has to negotiate with Vladimir Putin." But there was a major obstacle. Ukrainian fascists, Cohen warned, "have said that they will remove and kill Zelensky if he continues along this line of negotiating with Putin… His life is being threatened literally by a quasi-fascist movement in Ukraine."

Peace could only come, Cohen stressed, on one condition. "[Zelensky] can’t go forward with full peace negotiations with Russia, with Putin, unless America has his back," he said. "Maybe that won’t be enough, but unless the White House encourages this diplomacy, Zelensky has no chance of negotiating an end to the war. So the stakes are enormously high."
...
Although Trump's impeachment failed to remove him from office, it succeeded in cementing the proxy war aims of its chief proponents: rather than support Zelensky's peace mandate, Ukraine would instead be used to "fight Russia over there."

I had earlier quoted an interview with Dmytro Yarosh, then the leader of the fascist Right Sector, who just a week after Zelenski had become president threatened him with death should he try to make peace with the eastern Ukrainian rebels. Yarosh later became an advisor to the chief general staff of the Ukrainian military. He is the main person behind the ongoing nazification of the Ukrainian military.

As ambassador Antonov has said the war in Ukraine is not only about the Ukraine.

Richard Falk, Professor Emeritus of International Law at Princeton University, is correctly pointing out the two levels of the war we see:

It is not that the empathy for Ukraine or support for Zelensky’s national resistance is misplaced, but that it has the appearance of being geopolitically orchestrated and manipulated in ways that other desperate national situations were not, and thus gives rise to suspicions about other, darker motives.

This is worrisome because these magnified concerns have acted as a principal way that the NATO West has gone out of its way to make the Ukrainian War about more than Ukraine. The wider war is best understood as occurring on two levels: a traditional war between the invading forces of Russia and the resisting forces of Ukraine as intertwined with an encompassing geopolitical war between the US and Russia. It is the prosecution of this latter war that presents the more profound danger to world peace, a danger that has been largely obscured or assessed as a mere extension of the Russia/Ukraine confrontation.
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If this two-level perception is correctly analyzed in its appreciation of the different actors with contradictory priorities, then it becomes crucial to understand that in the geopolitical war the US is the aggressor as much as in the traditional war on the ground Russia is the aggressor.

Falk concurs with professor John Mearsheimer who fears that the larger U.S. Russia conflict hidden behind the war in Ukraine may lead to widening of the conflict into a potential nuclear war.

Summarizing Mearsheimer's recent talk with Katrina vanden Heuvel and ambassador James Matlock, the former CIA analyst Ray McGovern writes:

Speaking at an April 7 webinar, Mearsheimer was, true to form, "offensively realistic". He explained: (1) the root cause lies in the April 2008 NATO summit Declaration that Ukraine (and Georgia) "will become members of NATO"; and (2) that Russia sees this as an "existential threat" and therefore "must win" this one.

For President Joe Biden and the Democrats, even though Ukraine poses zero strategic threat to the U.S., a Russian "win" would be, politically, a "devastating defeat", says Mearsheimer. In that sense, the conflict is a "must-win" for the US as well. Underscoring the obvious, he noted it is impossible for both sides to "win" – at least not in current circumstances.
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Noting that US academics and policy makers don’t believe NATO’s designs on Ukraine represent an existential threat to Russia, Mearsheimer is as blunt as his courteous mien permits. "What people in Washington believe is irrelevant. What matters is what Russia believes." He rejects the "mainstream" view that Putin’s Russia is motivated by expansionist aims, and asks the savants in Washington to put concrete evidence behind their claims. Moreover, "There is no evidence in what Putin has said that he wants to make Ukraine part of Russia," Mearsheimer adds.

Towards the end of a talk with Gonzalo Lira former Marine officer and UN Inspector Scott Ritter disputes the potential for escalation. The Pentagon, he says, knows the real situation on the ground and that the Ukrainian army will lose the war. Neither NATO, nor the U.S. nor single countries like Poland have their forces configured in a way that would allow them to successfully wage war against Russia. They would need more time to get ready than Russia will need to win the war in Ukraine.

Ritter predicts that the Pentagon will overrule any escalation the Ukraine warmongers in the State Department and National Security Council may plan and that those responsible for the current mess, Victoria Nuland, Anthony Blinken and Jake Sullivan, will get silenced or removed after the midterms.

I hope he is right.

Posted by b on April 11, 2022 at 16:33 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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thanks b... there are still some actual leaders in politics, but they sure aren't located in the western alliance... i like all of those you have quoted as they offer some balance and nuance in their position... i especially liked what antonov has to say...

here is a quote from one of moa's posters - bevin - on much the same topic here... it's from the previous thread...

"This is not a war of aggression. It has legal justifications. The first is the protection of civilians under attack- Ukrainian attacks on Donbas over an eight year period were the war crimes here. This obviously involves stamping out the source of the attacks.
In fact had the United States and NATO not rendered the UN impotent, by repeatedly violating the charter and the law, it would have been possible, as Russia repeatedly requested, for the matter to be decided in the UNSC.
It is dishonest, simply because one objects to the Russian government, or system, to equate its behaviour in going to war with those of the US government.
Some wars are justifiable. This is well understood: the US defended its attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq on the basis that it had been attacked or was liable to be (WMD) had their charges been true it may be that these wars would have been legal. However, in both cases the US was telling lies: there were no WMDs. Afghanistan had not attacked the US.
In the case of Libya the US/NATO argued that a genocide was in preparation against Benghazi and Ghadaffi opponents. Had either charge been ntrue the war might have been legal. But neither charge was true.
Thus the US wars were illegal because they were acts of aggression being sold as defensive.
The case of Russia today is completely different: there were attacks on the Donbas. They had been going for eight years and they had greatly increased in February. There were several other indications-including the refusal to implement the Minsk Accords- that Ukraine was refusing to cease its attacks on the east.
Russia's position is such that it would be cleared by any Nuremberg inspired Tribunal, unless it were one biased in favour of the Empire and incapable of acting judicially. Sadly the US has made a mockery of International Law and Justice for many years. It has discredited the peaceful anhd diplomatic solution of international problems.
This is a crime far worse than a single act of aggression. It amounts to a restoration of barbarism in international affairs.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 11 2022 14:13 utc | 338"

Posted by: james | Apr 11 2022 16:45 utc | 1

and..........i too hope ritter is right about the pentagon, but that is a shaky proposition as i see it, putting all one's faith in the pentagons ability to oversee all this..

Posted by: james | Apr 11 2022 16:47 utc | 2

It's a sad state of affairs when in the US we must hope that the Pentagon overrules the "democratically elected" civilian officials. The continued elevation of the greediest, most selfish, least diplomatically aware people who are firmly the tools of the oligarchy to the Presidency, Congress, and nearly every position below ensures the long-term decline of America. And there is no avenue I can see for correcting this situation.

Posted by: worldblee | Apr 11 2022 16:47 utc | 3

The truth is, Russia will condemn all instances of former Soviet Republics asserting their national identity as "Nazi". Ukraine will become another Afghanistan for the declining power that is Russia, Russians will remain oblivious and follow their leader like the Zombified biomass that they are and Russia apologists in the West will keep taking about "a few more days until the Donnas encirclement"

Slava Ukraini

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 16:50 utc | 4

Thanks b.
If anyone's been wondering what China thinks of the situation, I recommend the Global Times site. While not quite a mouthpiece for the CCP, it publishes nothing that Xi would disapprove of. He's a link to an excellent and comprehensive series of articles detailing the evil that America has done and continues to do around the world:
China's voice

Posted by: pasha | Apr 11 2022 16:52 utc | 5

It is going to be a stunning blow to US prestige if Russia comes to a negotiated settlement with Ukraine any time soon.

Posted by: RZ | Apr 11 2022 16:54 utc | 6

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 16:50 utc | 4

Unfortunately for you, the news coming from Donbass are not good for the ukies. This is what is left of blockpost 29 after few days of bombing barages:

https://t.me/milinfolive/80928

Soon, if insanity or stupidity does not subside with the ukrops, all of the Donbass forces will look like that.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 11 2022 16:55 utc | 7

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 16:50 utc | 4

Also, dorogij ukro-bot, notice that the Russians are now kinzhilling through command centers in Donbass as well:


Briefing by the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Igor Konashenkov as of 19.00 on April 11, 2022 on the progress of the special operation in Ukraine

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue to conduct a special military operation in Ukraine.

On the afternoon of April 11, in the area of the settlement of CHAS YAR, Donetsk region, the Dagger aviation missile system destroyed a buried, well-protected command post of the grouping of Ukrainian troops in the Donbas.

High-precision air-launched missiles in the area of the Selidovo settlement of Donetsk region destroyed: a Ukrainian tactical missile launcher "Tochka-U", two multiple rocket launchers in an underground shelter, two camouflaged clusters of weapons and military equipment and up to 40 people of Ukrainian nationalists.

The base camp of the Nazis of the terrorist organization "Right Sector" was destroyed near the settlement of Novogrodovka, Donetsk region.

During the day, high-precision ground-based missiles in the areas of POPASNAYA, Novozvanivka and ZOLOTOYE settlements of Donetsk region destroyed: a battalion command and observation post, three company strongpoints, two company tactical groups of the Ukrainian 24th Mechanized Brigade and the Territorial Defense Brigade, as well as two places of accumulation of personnel, weapons and military equipment.

In total, as a result of strikes in these areas, up to 300 Ukrainian militants, over 50 armored combat vehicles and up to 25 vehicles for various purposes were destroyed.

A Su-27 fighter of the Ukrainian air force was shot down in the air by Russian air defense means near the village of Sinelnikovo, Dnipropetrovsk region.

▪️Operational-tactical aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 42 military facilities of Ukraine.

Among them: three command posts, two radar stations of illumination and guidance, a fuel depot, as well as 35 strong points and areas of concentration of Ukrainian military equipment.

In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 130 aircraft, 99 helicopters, 243 S-300, Buk-M1, Osa AKM anti-aircraft missile systems, 441 unmanned aerial vehicles, 2,132 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 241 multiple rocket launchers, 913 field artillery guns have been destroyed and mortars, as well as 2,028 units of special military vehicles. #Russia #Ukraine
@rybar

Posted by: Boo | Apr 11 2022 17:01 utc | 8

The same western Jewish banking system that put their weight behind the allies AGAINST the Germans are the same people propping up the Ukes against the Russians.

The comparison between Ukraine and 1938 Germany is the one thing that continues to make me scratch my head over this whole thing.

But, when you realize the term Nazi means very little nowadays, or that its meaning has been dilluted by mass appropriation by every group the world over who needs a boogeyman term to conjure up sympathy, it becomes understandable that the term Nazi is the well in which every peoples in the world can scream into.

...

We can't have our governments continue to obfuscate and lie to us in this regard. It is obscurantinism and it is a telltale sign of a global cabal of elites who are doing the devil's work.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 11 2022 17:02 utc | 9

A while back vis a vis Syria Sy Hersh wrote about how the CIA and Pentagon worked at cross-purposes in US meddling there. The Pentagon ignored Trump on several occasions. I doubt the Pentagon wanted the assassination of Soleimani. The Pentagon's General Staff, as part of the profit-supremacist Military Industrial Complex, and mongers for Forever War, (and not the War to End All Wars) know damn well the trillions boondoggled for military hardware won't measure up against a modern military.

No one wants the gravy train to end. Indeed we see the howls for increased military spending to defense budgets that essentially make the USA a banana republic to 'national security interests.'

The Democrats are in a world of hurt. After all the war-mongering they can hardly admit defeat. I see an aneurism in America's near-term future.

Posted by: gottlieb | Apr 11 2022 17:06 utc | 10

Found a personal note about Tony Blinken. His stepfather from an early age was Sam Pisar. Pisar was Robert Maxwell’s attorney and supposedly the last person to see Maxwell alive. Always an unbelievable story. Pisar’s story of how he survived seven concentration camps and escaped a death march also in the genre of comedy. In any case young Blinken was a frequent companion and playmate of young Ghislaine Maxwell. Nothing good could come from such origins.

It’s a big club. You ain’t in it. Sometimes it also works like a tiny clique. A nasty and dysfunctional clique.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 11 2022 17:11 utc | 11

After the war many of its surviving officers fled to Canada and to the United States.

They did NOT "flee" they were given legends and exfiltrated by MI6 and OSS. It was the only Waffen-SS unit kept intact with its weapons in Rimini, Italy. Churchill wanted it for "Operation Unthinkable" which Truman nixed.

Montgomery revealed postwar there had been plans for Western Allies to attack USSR by 1954 but as we know Korea got in the way and Stalin's death/murder.

In England there were certain towns with a textile industry where Ukrainians were based and many of us grew up aware of Ukrainians but not their backstory and why they were "DPs" or "Displaced Persons" - it took decades before Nazi hunters suddenly turned them inside out in Canada, Australia, UK and extraditions burst onto the scene.

Just as Klaus Barbie was exfiltrated by OSS to Bolivia. No doubt Alois Brunner made his own way to Egypt and then Syria where he died 2010.

USAAF wanted to use A-=bombs on Soviet cities in 1946 but did not have a manufacturing pipeline to produce enough - Klaus Fuchs scotched that plan and once Stalin had the bomb the USA began to convince themselves they were the underdog even with JFK's mendacious claim of a Missile Gap to Soviet advantage to scorn Nixon even though USSR only had 16.

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 11 2022 17:20 utc | 12

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 16:50 utc | 4

You seem to be moving the goalposts. IIRC last time it was about how Mariupol was still not liberated. Well, it's done. So now you're gloating about the cauldron in the Donbass. My guess is that your next fly-by will be about how Kharkov can never be taken. Then Dniepropetrovsk. Then Odessa.

In the French language the expression "Courage, fuyons!" (Chin up! let's flee!) is used to describe those who try to propagandize defeats as victories. It suits you.

Posted by: Lemming | Apr 11 2022 17:20 utc | 13

Good introduction to what has now become the Second Great Patriotic War as subtly announced by Lavrov in his interview today that I posted to the previous thread. Here are the fateful words:

"Our special military operation is designed to put an end to the reckless expansion and course towards the complete domination of the United States and the rest of NATO countries in the international arena. It is being built with a gross violation of international law according to certain 'rules', which they are only now talking about." [My Emphasis]

How many other nations besides China will ally with Russia? All CSTO or? Belarus has said it wasn't going to do much with Ukraine; does its policy get changed? I'll dig out the part of the Joint Declaration where China and Russia vowed to do what Lavrov just announced. Will NATO read Lavrov correctly and understand it'll now be subjected to counterattack? Does Russia go to Full War mode now that EU and NATO are one and the same as Lavrov noted and cutoff all exports?

Frankly, I'm surprised at the lack of importance given Lavrov's words, although I'm sure most Russians watched and listened. A video Martyanov posted at his blog showed a convoy of Russian troops heading for the front being cheered on and given WW2 battle flags, which for me was very moving. As b wrote, Russians have no illusions about the EVIL they face and the necessity of eliminating it, this time forever if at all possible. So, does that mean going all the way to the Channel and demilitarizing all of Europe?

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2022 17:21 utc | 14

The truth is, Russia will condemn all instances of former Soviet Republics asserting their national identity as "Nazi". Ukraine will become another Afghanistan for the declining power that is Russia, Russians will remain oblivious and follow their leader like the Zombified biomass that they are and Russia apologists in the West will keep taking about "a few more days until the Donnas encirclement"

Slava Ukraini

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 16:50 utc | 4

I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning... it smells like...

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 11 2022 17:23 utc | 15

Re: Nazis repatriating to western countries

It does not necessarily follow that the ideology or impetus for Hitler's NSDAP was translated or carried to these countries via these surviving members.

What it does mean is that the brainpower of that PARTICULAR movement was probably harnessed by the west, but certainly not the reasons behind the NSDAP's rise.

Just think of Hannah Arendt's Banality of Evil: the rank and file were not true believers, or the embodiment of evil. They were hypnotized into doing their job and throwing German intelligence and work ethic behind the movement.

Therefore, even if NSDAP-alligned Germans repatriated, it does not follow that Nazism, in the sense of Germany circa 1938, followed them.

These ex-pats, therefore, are a moot point. If anything, it proves their pliability towards a cause or movement outside of their self that they can once again fall victim to.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 11 2022 17:29 utc | 16

Who do you think the warmongers in Washington respond to--the Pentagon, or the MIC profiteers??

Posted by: deltasquared | Apr 11 2022 17:34 utc | 17

"What people in Washington believe is irrelevant. What matters is what Russia believes."

As a natural born American citizen, hatched in "The Last Frontier" state a few years before JFK's authorized assassination, I believe Russia's beliefs in this matter to be correct.

Posted by: majoab | Apr 11 2022 17:42 utc | 18

Full-scale Nato military force to defend borders
Jens Stoltenberg, the chief of the alliance, reveals plans to deploy permanent military presence sufficient to repel a Russian invasion


Nato is drawing up plans to deploy a permanent full-scale military force on its border in an effort to combat future Russian aggression following the invasion of Ukraine, the alliance’s secretary general has revealed.

In an interview with The ­Telegraph, Jens Stoltenberg said Nato was “in the midst of a very fundamental transformation” that will reflect “the long-term consequences” of Vladimir Putin’s actions.

As part of a major “reset”, the relatively small “tripwire” presence on the alliance’s eastern flank will be replaced with sufficient forces to repel an attempted invasion of member states such as Estonia and Latvia. Options for the reset are being developed by Nato military commanders.

Posted by: librul | Apr 11 2022 17:42 utc | 19

@Posted by: librul | Apr 11 2022 17:42 utc | 19

Here is the link to the article:

https://archive.ph/nYJmY#selection-1561.0-1573.287

Posted by: librul | Apr 11 2022 17:43 utc | 20

extremely important (Time magazine 2019) article relevant to the Ukraine 'military action' crisis but I do not find anyone referring to it: https://time.com/6076035/erik-prince-ukraine-private-army/

Posted by: deltasquared | Apr 11 2022 17:44 utc | 21

james @2 -
Ritter is correct about the Pentagon's current and middle-term role. The chiefs are aware that the tactical situation of Ukraine vs. neighbor Russia is much too favorable to the RF. Besides, the NATO military forces have been degraded in quantity to the extent that even some thousands of US troops to their eastern associates are only capable of delaying tactics in case of invasion - and, of course, there is the maintenance of fear among the countries nearest to the action. (One might think that stationing troops there would be reassurance - just the opposite. It's to remind everyone of the fearsome enemy.) Third factor is the analysis of Russian equipment and battle order - maybe even capture some of the new toys that the RF forces are employing. Fourthly, just as the political/'intelligence' side of the USUK/NATO agencies intend, the Pentagon sees bleeding of Russian troops as a positive. (Even PTSD counts in that regard.)

Perhaps most important is that the Pentagon realizes that it is on the prime target list for a sub-launched nuclear bomb that might arrive in a few minutes after detection. And they want some of those toys that they've now seen in action, plus some of the ones that have only been 'reported' via a few successful tests. The Pentagon folks are not actually stupid by-and-large - just venal and hyper-bureaucratic.

Posted by: Paul Spencer | Apr 11 2022 17:46 utc | 22

It will not be over when it ends. NATO will beef up its footprint. They will build a new military force in the Ukraine. They will never give up.

They will keep Russia pinned against the wall. They will continue color revolutions of what is left of their allies. Nuclear was is guaranteed unless the post Putin leadership embraces western business and allows the looting of their resources on Western terms. Nothing less than the serfdome of Russians will be accepted.

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 11 2022 17:52 utc | 23

The problem for Russia is going to be an expensive rebuild of Ukraine. I think they should have targeted Kiev first, destroy it, cut the head of the snake and force the military to surrender that way. Now with all the destruction they are sending the areas in their control into the stone age.
I don't see Europe helping with the rebuilding of the Russian Ukraine. Who knows maybe.
But I think they started from the top.

Posted by: Balkanizer | Apr 11 2022 17:56 utc | 24

Posted by: RZ | Apr 11 2022 16:54 utc | 6


It is going to be a stunning blow to US prestige if Russia comes to a negotiated settlement with Ukraine any time soon.

This is something that will remain the domain of fantasy.

It will never be allowed to happen and certainly not soon.

Fortunately the US has no prestige left for further blows.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2022 17:56 utc | 25

Thank you, b, for your peerless coverage and your news aggregation.

...

With the specter of nuclear war looming on the horizon again, and after reading a post from Karlof1 a week or so ago, I replied that the creeping anxiety of this war and its great implications that b touches on again in this post, reminded me of a Canadian film called "Countdown Looking Glass."

Well, the cinephile in me recommends another film called "By Dawn's Early Light." The synopsis for the film is that, fearing a thawing of ties between the Soviets and the U.S., a contingent of warhawk-Officers in the U.S.S.R. stage a false-flag nuclear strike on their own country which triggers a massive Soviet nuclear response.

So it seems that the theme of factions of elites fighting for relevancy within one government is an ongoing one and has been for quite some time. Starting with the dismissal of Gen. Stanley McChrystal from his leadership in Afghanistan for his remarks about Obama's lack of military understanding, and then of course the framing of Gen. Flynn, one can easily see that U.S. Military is just as much at war with itself as it is with Russia.

Nationalist Officers below Milley and Austin I hope are working overtime and behind the scenes. Our great patriotic war will not be with Russia, but once again, with ourselves.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 11 2022 17:59 utc | 26

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 11 2022 17:11 utc | 11


It’s a big club. You ain’t in it. Sometimes it also works like a tiny clique. A nasty and dysfunctional clique.

Better stop connecting those dots else the anti-semitism commissars will get you ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2022 18:00 utc | 27

Ghost of Kyiv posted:

"follow their leader like the Zombified biomass"

Couldn't have summed up the West (yourself included no doubt) any better. As further evidenced by your retarded Twitter call to Action....

Slava Ukraini. lol.

Posted by: WastelandChic | Apr 11 2022 18:01 utc | 28

Of course the "an encompassing geopolitical war between the US and Russia" would include other countries, like China and India. . . .On the latter, an already overdue fourth round of the India-US 2+2 dialogue is coming up. Biden’s top economic adviser, Brian Deese, has opined about how the US is “disappointed by both China’s and India’s decisions” and how the consequences of their “more explicit strategic alignment” with Moscow will be both “significant and long-term.”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 11 2022 18:02 utc | 29

Sushi, you really blew me away with your comment @163: The Bear Blew First, and even though it got plenty of traction last night, maybe, mine will elevate its understood significance: justified casus belli. Please do however read Tom_12’s reply on the last page of the OT if you haven’t already.

Churchill seemed a very clever man indeed at a time when such a man was required, and he certainly had the arresting sensibility for words needed to stir nations to the cause of war and inspire men to their finest hour ready to give their lives to stop the Nazi march across Europe.

That is why when politicos and the media compare Zelensky to one of the greatest statesmen that ever lived, it defies my own perception, as I can see no resemblance whatsoever between the dignified stature of the historic figure that was Churchill and the one dressed in a t-shirt that grovels at the feet of USNATO on our screens every second day with a mix of hyperbole, deception and total disdain for the greater cause of Russia.

In that vein, I therefore beg you and others not to refer to Ukraine as the Z regime, which is jarring to my own sensibilities, as Z has become the rune that fascinates and galvanizes patriotic spirit within Russia and rallies the Russian people behind their troops, and Putin who commands them for a just cause to battle inside Ukraine.
I was encouraged to read that Putin assigned a different General to oversee the Operation, and hope that General Aleksandr Dvornikov will be more fox and less general, but he certainly gives the USNATO armchair military experts pause. His reputation apparently precedes him, and I trust he will live up to it.

If Western military analysts and ex-spy chiefs want to get in Putin’s head, they should stop projecting.

Since they are reduced to projection, I think Churchill's definition of Russia describes what they really found rummaging through Putin’s mind trying to break the code of his thinking: a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma So they still understand nothing, par for this former spook:
understaning Putin

As far as the Z that seemed to occupy the West's curiosity, it can only have one singular meaning as Phase 2 of Russia's SMO unfolds before the eyes of the world: VICTORY.

So here’ my humble contribution towards that goal in the form of the battle theme from Lord of the Rings, Lux Aeterna that brilliantly inspires anyone to fight like their life depends on it, and Russia’s future and World Order undeniably require that level of commitment.

https://youtu.be/Im6wqgSjV74

This piece has various titles, but the genuine one is Eternal Light; while Requiem for a Dream is the Album. Russia is not Mordor; the Empire is Mordor. I picked this version because I see a new world emerging from the rain clouds, rather than one vanishing into a mushroom cloud. Believe.

From Churchill to the words of the Roman Emperor, Marcus Aurelius: The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding yourself the ranks of the insane.

At this moment, I, like many of you, like most Russians, feel like a mere drop in an ocean current of insanity, yet I persevere. Finally, I have the audacity to disown Zelensky of Churchill and aĺso of the rune Z. Russia…
Never give in!

Posted by: Circe | Apr 11 2022 18:02 utc | 30

Lavrov:
"Our special military operation is designed to put an end to the reckless expansion and course towards the complete domination of the United States and the rest of NATO countries in the international arena. It is being built with a gross violation of international law according to certain 'rules', which they are only now talking about."
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2022 17:21 utc | 14

Lavrov's quote is echoed nicely by Richard Falk's closing words in the article b linked to above: "To be provocative, I would say that it is time for the peace movement to make sure that the US loses this geopolitical war! To win it, even persisting with it, would constitute a grave ‘geopolitical crime.’ "

Posted by: waynorinorway | Apr 11 2022 18:12 utc | 31

Posted by: librul

regarding Jens Stoltenberg - I find it rather amusing that he probably will be the one to lead NATO into oblivion. Right along with the oil he gave the US to play with - we were assisting the US in fighting other oil-producers,and sold our oil for pittance just to help the US fight economic wars. The band-aid was the sovereign wealth-fund - denominated in dollars. We won't get free until that evaporates -like it happened last time we had something similar.

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 18:16 utc | 32

What truck does the Pentagon have to do anything but stop a direct shooting war with the Russians? You'll still get the State Dept Syria-style insurgency if they can get it. They'll still find a way to stop negotiations, be it through regime change in Ukraine or some other means.

The neocons have clearly won the propaganda war in the West. Finland, under a young female PM, is looking like it will join NATO. No doubt she emotionally reacted to social media and had no understanding of the geopolitical situation. Finland's interests lie in a European security arrangement (Which actually technically exists since Lisbon 2.0) not in joining NATO which does whatever the US state department says and which will inflame conflict between Finland and Russia.

Posted by: Altai | Apr 11 2022 18:17 utc | 33

Russian forces destroy S-300 anti-aircraft launchers given to Ukraine by Slovakia a day or so ago, said the Russian Ministry of Defence.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 11 2022 18:21 utc | 34

@ Paul Spencer | Apr 11 2022 17:46 utc | 22... thanks for your info on this... what are your thoughts on part of paveways post on the previous thread??

thanks @ paveway! below is part of paveways post from the previous thread..

"I keep mentioning USSOCOM - this is very important. Since 9/11, there has been a war between the CIA, old-school Pentagon and a third neocon group aligned with Special Operations and counter-terrorism. The third emerged over the course of the last 20 years as a unified Special Operations Command. That's where the SEALs, SF, MARCON, some Rangers and Delta Force ended up. The commanders intended to bypass both the CIA and Pentagon for their capture-and-kill-team missions, and have their own intelligence and propaganda arms. They bypass the Pentagon's reporting structure and almost have a direct line to our Secretary of Defense. Nothing against the soldiers, themselves. This was neocons seizing an arm of the U.S. military because Congress and the regular military were too much bother.

In effect, they've side-stepped the U.S. Constitution and Congressional oversight, as well as the CIA and the Pentagon, to do their own thing the way they want to, unhindered by rules or bureaucracy. They coordinate with the CIA and Pentagon - when they feel like. The CIA's paramilitary efforts have largely been lost to SOCOM. CIA still does it's regime-change thing, but concentrates on corrupting Ukraine government and creating a permissive, uncontrolled environment for ultra-nationalist militias to operate.

SOCOM conducts most of their operations under U.S. authority and secrecy spelled out for Intelligence activities, and NOT under the authority specifically given to the regular military for military operations. For all practical purposes, this is the neocon's SS answerable to nobody because they're fighting 'terrorists'. Label some pissed-off Ukrainian separatists and sympathizers as 'terrorists' and SOCOM shows up torturing them under Azovstal. Was SOCOM involved militarily in Ukraine against the wishes of Congress? Well, no (in neocon minds) because they were technically operating under spy and anti-terror authority. There's probably plenty in Azovstal, but it doesn't matter. They're somewhere in Ukraine - the anti-Russian fascist militias don't just train and equip themselves. NATO SF tag-alongs? Probably. The US wouldn't care about SF solders and their commanders potentially lost there. The US Government is far more worried about how to explain presence of the US military fighting in a Ukraine civil war and provoking WWIII *especially* since our Congress specifically told them not to do this. I don't think the 'intelligence authorization' loophole will work this time.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Apr 11 2022 17:55 utc | 375"

Posted by: james | Apr 11 2022 18:21 utc | 35

I thing Ritter is very mistaken.
The US is using two levels of proxy to try to isolate itself politically from risk.
As Lavrov has now stated, this is not only about Ukraine, this is for all the marbles.
The US has already taken steps which amount to acts of war. Russia is just waiting for the situation to correct itself or for best time to circle back and address the issue.
Also this will be coordinated with China to some extent as they are preparing for unfriendly actions.
I would estimate that it is going roughly according to plan - I assume they new China would be there to help Russia weather the sanctions.
The fact that the US and UK keep injecting more weapons which only result in more dead with same outcome - that is going to reach limit of tolerance shortly I think.

Posted by: jared | Apr 11 2022 18:27 utc | 36

In their 4 February Joint Declaration, Russia and China used many words to express their dissatisfaction with the direction the world was taking driven by the hegemony of the Outlaw US Empire and the numerous illegal means it employs, which is the Declaration's overall theme. As such, it's clear their aim is to return the world to the peaceful path that was envisioned to begin at WW2's end based on the UN Charter's laws and principles. As I've documented, the Outlaw US Empire chose to disobey the UN Charter from its outset primarily because the Truman regime that came to power had no intention of continuing Roosevelt's policies because the Truman regime was infiltrated by Fascists. That abrupt change of direction has resulted in the crisis we face today. The Joint Declaration recognizes the crisis and charts what must be done to again alter Humanity's direction. While the third section deals with security, the fourth is more direct in what actions must be taken. For those who haven't copy/pasted this document into their collection, the Kremlin website seems to be open for the time being. The entire document is linked atop. What follows is the significant section I see as the commitment of Russia and China to challenge the Outlaw US Empire to cease its illegal behavior and eliminate its hegemony.

The sides emphasize that Russia and China, as world powers and permanent members of the UN Security Council, intend to strictly adhere to moral principles and responsibility, resolutely defend the international system in which the UN has a central coordinating role in international affairs, uphold a world order based on international law, including the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, promote multipolarity and promote the democratization of international relations, and jointly build more a more prosperous, stable and just world, together to create a new type of international relations.

The Russian Side notes the positive importance of the Chinese side's concept of building a "community with a shared future for mankind" in strengthening the solidarity of the international community and joining efforts in responding to common challenges. The Chinese side notes the positive importance of the efforts of the Russian side to form a fair multipolar system of international relations.

The parties intend to firmly defend the inviolability of the results of World War II and the existing post-war world order, to protect the authority of the UN and justice in international relations, to resist attempts to deny, distort and falsify the history of the Second World War.

In order to prevent a repetition of the tragedy of the world war, the Parties will strongly condemn actions aimed at leveling responsibility for the atrocities of fascist aggressors, militaristic invaders and their accomplices, desecrating and tarnishing the honor of the victorious countries.

The parties stand for the formation of a new type of relations between the world powers based on mutual respect, peaceful coexistence and mutually beneficial cooperation. They confirm that Russian-Chinese interstate relations of a new type surpass the military-political alliances of the Cold War. Friendship between the two states has no borders, there are no no-go zones in cooperation, the strengthening of bilateral strategic cooperation is not directed against third countries, is not subject to the influence of a volatile international environment and situational changes in third countries.

The parties reiterate the need for consolidation, not division, of the international community, of the need for cooperation rather than confrontation. The parties oppose the return of international relations to the state of confrontation between the major powers, when the weak become the prey of the strong. The Parties intend to resist attempts to replace generally accepted and consistent with international law formats and mechanisms with certain rules developed in a "narrow circle" by individual countries or blocs of countries, oppose the solution of international problems not on the basis of consensus, but through bypass schemes, oppose the policy of force, harassment, unilateral sanctions and extraterritorial application of jurisdiction, as well as against the abuse of export control policy, support trade facilitation in accordance with World Trade Organization (WTO) rules. [My Emphasis]

Again, this is just a portion and further commitments are stated throughout the entire document. It greatly expands the meaning of the Four Freedoms through their being further defined and refined.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2022 18:27 utc | 37

Im Romania, nato tried to impose a legal frame modificatiom: in case of military conflict, operational and tactical command and control of DoD shifts toward the commandment leading the operatiom (as specified in agreement)
Initiative launched has encountered numerous critics.
In the mean time, the govt blocked transparency on a type of laws (Emergency Ordinance procedures).
So...no trace or sign of it yet.

Posted by: Sock | Apr 11 2022 18:29 utc | 38

Balkanizer @24--

The head of the snake resides in Washington DC, not Kiev.

I see a great many are blind to the significance of Lavrov's words. The implications are vast.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2022 18:34 utc | 39

Don't count on US DOD. DOD was fooled by the US Intelligence and State Department crowd last time in the hasty and shameful evacuation from Afghanistan. Nobody in the US was held responsible for the failure and unnecessary civilian deaths and suffering.

And more funny is that nothing was learned by the "Allies", after they all had to take care of their own evacuations, not at the last minute, but after the last minute (after the US was gone).

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Apr 11 2022 18:34 utc | 40

I think a more realist assessment would be that this could go either way - west backs down or wider war.

I would cite Mercoulis as of that view.

Posted by: jared | Apr 11 2022 18:35 utc | 41

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 11 2022 17:02 utc | 9

The Western "Jewish" banking system was also backing the Nazis until it became politically non-expedient.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 18:35 utc | 42

Slava Ukraini
Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 16:50 utc | 4

Poland is preparing housing for Ukrainian refugees. One only wonders how many descendants of those Banderites who had murdered 100.000 Polish civilians (including children and pregnant women) by the most barbaric methods in Volynia in 1943 will be welcomed by the "deciding" Polish chihuahuas (US vassals)? According to a Polish site, the Banderites had nearly 400 methods for torturing Polish civilians; some methods were designed specifically for children.

The Odessa massacre was not a fluke - it was the modus operandi of the spiritual heirs to Stepan Bandera. Thought today, the Bandera followers are Semite-led Untermenschen. They obey Nuland-Kagan, Kolomojsky, Blinken, and Zelinsky.

The Azovsteel compound is filled with Ukrainian neo-Nazis and their NATO trainers. The "Pit" houses a bio-weapon lab. There are also the remains of those locals who were used as guinea pigs by the owners of the lab - Hunter Biden et al.

Posted by: Cerena | Apr 11 2022 18:38 utc | 43

Anatoliy Shariy, Ukrainian journalist and opposition politician living in Spain, has posted information on the persecution of Ukrainians who deviate from the dominant Nationalist ideology:

The Prosecutor General’s Office of the Ukraine has reported that since February 24, 2022, it has registered 7,283 criminal cases and one “general” case concerning the aggression of the Russian Federation.

Of these, 1,653 are criminal cases concerning “infringement of the territorial integrity of Ukraine” (Article 110 of the Criminal Code).

Legal practice shows that these cases are mainly about posts on social media in which citizens express their views.

For example, Lvov-based blogger Gleb Lyashenko has been under arrest since March 30.

435 cases are about “high treason” (Article 111). Its application is characterized by the accusation of treason against the 70-year-old poet Yan Taksyur, who advocated the rights of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Since March 10, he has been under arrest in the Lukyanovka pre-trial detention center (Kiev).

On March 20, SBU has detained 66-year-old human rights activist Elena Berezhnaya in Kiev on charges of high treason.

43 cases are about “waging aggressive war” (Article 437). Under this article, for example, a left-wing activist from Dnepropetrovsk, Aleksandr Matyushenko, who had never taken part in hostilities, was charged.

During the arrest, he was severely beaten by the Azov servicemen. Since March 3, he has been under arrest.

On the same day, 39 people were detained in Dnepropetrovsk on the same charge.

56 cases are about “sabotage”. One such case is that of Odessa journalist Yuri Tkachev, who was charged with possession of explosives, which, according to him, were planted on him by SBU officers.

Since March 19, he has been under arrest.

On the same day, 17 people were detained in Odessa on the same charges.

Under the same article, in Lutsk, a violinist of the Volyn Regional Philharmonic Oleg Smetanin has been charged.

Posted by: S | Apr 11 2022 18:39 utc | 44

Blinken graduated from Harvard in 84, did a little work in law, and went to work fomenting war in every Democratic Admin since 1994. He helped Senator Biden "craft" his excuses for destroying Iraq.

These days, Blinken's wife, who goes by her maiden name, works helping President Biden find the bathroom.

All parties were apparently friendly with Epstein and all the Maxwell's.

(I enjoyed Sushi's thesis. There's apparently a lot of gas to fight about in the Don basin.)

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Apr 11 2022 18:45 utc | 45

Arch Bungle @ 27

Attempting to find something about Jake Sullivan’s background discovered that his father, mother, brother, and wife are all (private) at the genealogy sites. Which only ever occurs when something needs to be hidden. He did not get the Rhodes for being nobody.

Have you noticed that at the old age of 45 he more and more resembles a cadaver?

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 11 2022 18:49 utc | 46

If the Pentagon opposes war, why are there U.S. soldiers (allegedly even a three-star general) in Mariupol?

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 11 2022 18:50 utc | 47

Posted by: Lemming | Apr 11 2022 17:20 utc | 13

Hahaha, you think it is some sort of own that the worlds "second most powerful army" managed to take Mariupol in 7 weeks (by the way, Azovstal is still not fully under Russian control). Even Igor Strelkov admits this is a total failure by Russia.

Russia is still a prison of nations, it cannot stand that the pure-hearted agricultural nation of Ukraine escaped from Mordor's clutches, so it does what Russia does best, go into a violent rage and destroy everything.

I remember when Russian-shills were saying we would fold within a day, 7 weeks on and still we are resisting. Why? Because Ukrainians are fighting for our homeland, Russians by contrast are fighting for Abramovitch and Putin's yachts and dachas

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 18:50 utc | 48

The problem for Russia is going to be an expensive rebuild of Ukraine. I think they should have targeted Kiev first, destroy it, cut the head of the snake and force the military to surrender that way. Now with all the destruction they are sending the areas in their control into the stone age.
I don't see Europe helping with the rebuilding of the Russian Ukraine. Who knows maybe.
But I think they started from the top.

Posted by: Balkanizer | Apr 11 2022 17:56 utc | 24

Well worth it - just ask how expensive was the Marshall plan? They need people, not resources.

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 18:51 utc | 49

May be no evidence that Putin wants to make Ukraine part of Russia, but of what there is evidence, as there are recent statements by Jake Sullivan in this regard, is that the US tries to eliminate an economic powerhouse in the world and in Europe, and, in passing, for sure taking out also another one, Germany...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQDNZiRWUAIBJTC?format=jpg&name=medium

Russia is the sixth largest economy in the world...The fifth is Germany....

By causing a war in Ukraine and forcing its packet of sanctions the US eliminate two competitors in a round, at a low cost in money and lives, in fact, as in the past great European wars, making money through its MIC, plus achieving a de facto quasi monopoly of European gas market, moreover at estratospheric prices, until this war uncompetitive in the "free market" and which was leading the US fracking LNG corporations to bankruptcy.... It is Europe, more precisely the Eu taxpayers, who face the costs...

France and UK are 9th and 10th largest economies in the world respectively...behind Russia...By taking part in fuelling the Ukraine war through proxies, mercenaries, or arming the Ukrainians to the teeth so that they can fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, they also eliminate a huge competitor in a ruinous post-pandemic environment and an about to burst QE bubble...

Eliminating Russian from the ranking of mayor world economies would be the only favorable result both, Macron and BoJo, could offer their nationals after a disastrous performance. At the same time, through a hot war in the heart of Europe they can justify the galopant empoverishipment of their citizenry, out of their total mismanagement, balming it on Putin and the War in Ukraine ( as they do, btw, since the start of the Russian SMO each and every Euroepan leader...),while they make some money through their national MIC. If for that it needs to die a lot of slav people, well, who cares?

https://www.rt.com/news/553043-macron-nato-anti-russian-provocations/

https://www.rt.com/news/553610-boris-johnson-ukraine-visit-weapons/

Of course, in this post-pandemic scorched earth panorama in the EU, Germany would love taking the Russian gas for free, as it was planned through the seizing of Russian foreign assets, to rebuilt its damaged economy, hence it associated with the othere three mentioned above in provoking Russia to the extent of war, and then in pushing the war in Ukraine further in time..

https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/426622-ministra-exteriores-alemania-instar-armas-pesadas-ucrania

Posted by: Givi | Apr 11 2022 18:51 utc | 50

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 18:51 utc | 49

The problem for Russia is going to be an expensive rebuild of Ukraine

Russia will just lower Ukrainian living standards down to Russian levels*, this is what they mean by bringing in a brotherly people into the Russian world.

*- Did you know, 20% of Russians do not have access to indoor plumbing, there are also more prostitutes in Russia than doctors, farmers and firemen combined? Russia has higher HIV rates than many sub-Saharan African countries.

Russians who ask why this is are told "It is because evil NATO and Bandera are holding Russia back, Raskha Strong"

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 18:57 utc | 51

The head of the snake resides in Washington DC, not Kiev.

I see a great many are blind to the significance of Lavrov's words. The implications are vast.

Posted by: karlof1 |

I'm pretty sure it's to the north of DC. Lower Manhattan is my bet.

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 18:59 utc | 52

Annalena Baerbock, as a good Soros alumni, seems to fight for the golden medal in use of neolanguage...

"Annalena Baerbock announced that another 500 million euros will be allocated for the delivery of weapons and other military equipment to kyiv through the European Peace Support Fund".

Posted by: Givi | Apr 11 2022 19:00 utc | 53

just look at all the things the US/NATO have done since the end of the cold war.

Systematically attacking/regime changing any governments friendly to the Russians, starting with the destruction of Yugoslavia and the criminal attacks on Serbia, aiding and abetting Georgia in its attack on South Ossetia, the coup in Ukraine in 2014 and the attempted coup in Belarus. Completely ignoring the Minsk agreements and allowing the Ukro-Nazis to shell civilians for most of the last decade.

Reneging on the agreement not to expand NATO eastwards.

Systematic demonisation of Russia and Putin in particular with the absurd Litvinenko and Skripal fairy tales.

The tearing up of treaties intended to make a nuclear war less likely, the ABM treaty, the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty and the open skies treaty. All whilst people in the US were openly suggesting that a nuclear war was 'winnable'

The building up of military forces near Russia's borders, including the shoving of missile bases right in the Russian's faces, seriously reducing their warning time and greatly increasing the chance of accidental nuclear catastrophe.

Quite frankly it is pretty obvious that what the US/NATO were doing was setting up a nuclear first strike against the Russians. The cold war never really ended.

Posted by: MarkU | Apr 11 2022 19:00 utc | 54

The Western "Jewish" banking system was also backing the Nazis until it became politically non-expedient.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 18:35 utc | 42

They are at war with everyone- even their own people. It's a death-cult.

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 19:01 utc | 55

Russia will just lower Ukrainian living standards down to Russian levels*, this is what they mean by bringing in a brotherly people into the Russian world.

*- Did you know, 20% of Russians do not have access to indoor plumbing, there are also more prostitutes in Russia than doctors, farmers and firemen combined? Russia has higher HIV rates than many sub-Saharan African countries.

Russians who ask why this is are told "It is because evil NATO and Bandera are holding Russia back, Raskha Strong"

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 18:57 utc | 51

Like you know anything but wishful imaginations. Have you peeked over yonder? https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 19:04 utc | 56

Ghost of Kyiv @51

Did you know, 20% of Russians do not have access to indoor plumbing
Maybe the Empire and its poodles should send plumbers to Russia instead of mercenaries to Ukraine, then. I'm sure the plumbing would last longer than those Slovakian S-300 SAMs.

Posted by: aquileia | Apr 11 2022 19:04 utc | 57

Paul Greenwood | Apr 11 2022 17:20 utc | 12

Thank you!
Why Rimini?
Did these Nazis in Italy play any role in the terrorists assaults in Italy (eg Bologna 08/1980)
What would you recommend to read about this issues?

Posted by: njet | Apr 11 2022 19:07 utc | 58

Maybe the Empire and its poodles should send plumbers to Russia instead of mercenaries to Ukraine, then. I'm sure the plumbing would last longer than those Slovakian S-300 SAMs.

Posted by: aquileia | Apr 11 2022 19:04 utc | 57

https://time.com/longform/clean-water-access-united-states/

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 11 2022 19:08 utc | 59

"I see a great many are blind to the significance of Lavrov's words. The implications are vast."
karlof1@39
You are right, on both counts. The implications are vast. Few people seem to understand that.

The problem that I have with them is that the instrument- the Russian government- seems to remain enthralled by the worse practices pf the neo-liberals.
Today John Helmer has a piece on 'The Capitalist Revolution' in Russia. He makes two points which are particularly striking.

The first is that Russian capital exports-net losses to the Russian economy because dividends are not, and currently cannot be, repatriated, amount to a trillion US dollars. I suspect that it is more but the size of the outflow of capital is staggering. And Russia is desperately in need of capital.

The second is that current rates of inequality in Russia are higher than at any time since Tsarism.
We know that Russia is now working to do something about its economic defencelessness but, according to Helmer who is not always right, the latest laws include loopholes for oligarchs, their coaches and horses to pass through at will.
Nations at war in the modern world begin by regulating their economies to secure supplies, to protect revenues and, most important of all, to preserve the masses from the scourges of poverty, homelessness and ill health.
We know that these measures are greatly disapproved of by the IMF (which always has been and remains a US puppet) and that the Central Bank in Russia is, to put it mildly, under IMF influence.

The implications of which Lavrov speaks are of Eurasia shouldering a Herculean burden: putting the USA back in its box. And then, the really hard part, building an international system which benefits and will extend the life of, the human species. None of this can be done while the great wealth of Russia is left in the hands of greedy oligarchs who, in reality, are compradors of the enemy.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 11 2022 19:12 utc | 60

say ghost, do they give you guys speed like they give pilots? you have certainly been busy on this thread.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 11 2022 19:14 utc | 61

I'm operating from the assumption that NATO is under the control of the "political wing" or even one and the same, but formally operates in an environment independent of USG. Even supposing that the Pentagon is as rational as Scott believes it is, and dead set against escalation, I'm not confident that they could block decisions taken at the political level, particularly outside of US structures. Or if that alone would even be enough -- perhaps they'd manage to maneuver out of direct participation while retaining a strictly European commitment to intervene, to their own detriment.

I see it sort of like a train engine with a bunch of train cars heading towards an abyss and picking up speed. Maybe it's the engine pulling the cars, maybe the cars are pushing the engine because of a depression in the track. Already, pulling the brake won't be enough to kill the momentum. At best there might be a split in the track before the crash, but the only way to turn off to the side-track without derailing is to decouple all the cars and save only the engine, and even that operation would take a skilled driver and a good deal of luck.

Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 11 2022 19:17 utc | 62

Posted by: bevin | Apr 11 2022 19:12 utc | 60

What ground does Putin occupy in this struggle? the Central Bank being under IMF influence is like having the Russian military under CIA influence.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 11 2022 19:20 utc | 63

Russia is the sixth largest economy in the world...The fifth is Germany....

California is actually the 5th----

"If California were a sovereign nation (2020), it would rank as the world's fifth largest economy, ahead of United Kingdom and India"

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Apr 11 2022 19:22 utc | 64

I think they should have targeted Kiev first, destroy it, cut the head of the snake and force the military to surrender that way.

Posted by: Balkanizer | Apr 11 2022 17:56 utc | 24

Why are you so sure loss of capital is always end of fighting?.. What if Kiev been destroyed, but the snake still had head elsewhere, and the fighting army too?

--//--

Meanwhile EuroUkrs caught another idiot ball.

Video - https://topwar.ru/194758-v-seti-obsuzhdaetsja-strelba-iz-tanka-v-upor-po-voennosluzhaschim-ukrainskogo-batalona-na-blokpostu.html?ysclid=l1v0p3qoos

Somewhere in a contested area a Russian IFV fallen off a narrow forrest road and lost its track, or the other way around. So, crew abandoned it and moved on, not being eager to wait for Ukrainian ambush.

Later Ukrainians found the disabled V-vehicke and, in their wisdom, started selfie party around it. That's how all normal soldiers in contested areas spend their boring time.

As they were busy making heroic instagram posts, some looney tank went their way up the roads. Ukrainians, in their wisdom, guessed it was their fellow tank and cheered and invited it to come close and join the party.

Well, they guessed wrong. It was Russian tank. And it came closer, and it shoot the cannon into the party point blank.

For guro lovers there are aftermath photos and videos in TG channels linked in the comments at the link above. But only if you really like guro. Point blank tank shot, apparently, is... Brutal.

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 11 2022 19:25 utc | 65

The problem for Russia is going to be an expensive rebuild of Ukraine. [...]
I don't see Europe helping with the rebuilding of the Russian Ukraine. Who knows maybe.
But I think they started from the top.

Posted by: Balkanizer | Apr 11 2022 17:56 utc | 24

One of the problems of Ukraine is that it is too big. Subsidies, be them EU or Russian (USA is stingy) will not make it. Internal corruption is deep.

That said, as a vanguard of the West, Ukraine was economically anemic and now it is on the way to ruin. Just consider the civilian supply chains in wartime.

It is also amazing how "generous" the West with military aid, and how stingy and ineffective it is on the economic front. Example 1: Afghanistan. Example 2: the vibrant and prosperous democracy in Kosovo (not so much).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 11 2022 19:27 utc | 66

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Apr 11 2022 19:22 utc | 64
I wonder if it would be if it weren't part of the U.S.?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 11 2022 19:30 utc | 67

Posted by: Ghost of Kyiv | Apr 11 2022 18:50 utc | 48

Does it hurt you to notice that eg Kherson and Melitpol accept Russian rule? There is no insurgency, instead there is cheap energy and gas. I expect that Southern and Eastern Ukraine will accept Russian rule as long as their basic needs are covered. Ukraine as an All-Ukrainian concept from Bandera is rooted in Western Ukraine and young natioanlists from all over Ukraine. But the vast majority of the aging Ukrainian population was socialized in the USSR, All-Ukrainian nationalism Bandera style is an alien concept for them. Had Russia waited for lets say 10-20 more years, it would have been different, because the All-Ukrainian nationalism would have had more time to form the identity of the youth injected since 2014.

My prediciton of this conflict: You will have a rump Ukraine that has nothing except the funds transferred from the EU, among them my German taxpayer money, so be grateful and bow down to your overlords. All other parts of Ukraine that Russia will occupy, will remain in the Ruskii mir. And you cant don anything about it. And the ppl living there will live a peaceful life.

Your fatal error is your All-Ukrainian nationalism, a concept that wants to remove anything that isnt pure enough: No Russian language, Bandera as a national hero, USSR (Russia) wasnt liberating Ukraine, but occupying it after 1944 etc. Too bad for you, if you cant understand the shortcomings of that nationalism. France and Germany learned from these mistakes after WW2: The Eurpean Community, now EU, was born.

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 11 2022 19:32 utc | 68

In the previous thread people were asking for advice on how to access Russian MoD on Telegram. I wrote a long post on the topic with a dozen links to Telegram channels. Unfortunately it got delayed in the spam filter, but is online now:

How to access Telegram?

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 11 2022 19:34 utc | 69

@Ghost of Kyiv
"Ukrainian living standards"
Ukrainian what now,stop taking the piss delusional cretin, Ukraine is Europe's brothel,the most poor and disgusting country on the subcontinent by far,it took them like 5 years after "liberation"(lmao)from Soviet "yoke"(lmao) to end up like that.Any semblance of civilization and industry they had left was because of the ingenuity of the Russophones in the Donbass region and their history with the USSR.

Posted by: Lolgege | Apr 11 2022 19:37 utc | 70

Arne Hartmann @ 68
Crimea as well. Not a hint of resistance to Russian rule despite the hit to living standards from being isloated and water sources cut off. With water flowing again and increased border access to Russia their living standards should improve.

Lolgege @ 70
Big oil walked away from their desire to work in Ukraine as well. Too corrupt, too unstable.

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 11 2022 19:53 utc | 71

@Arioch | Apr 11 2022 19:25 utc | 65

Somewhere in a contested area a Russian IFV fallen off a narrow forrest road and lost its track, or the other way around. So, crew abandoned it and moved on, not being eager to wait for Ukrainian ambush.

Later Ukrainians found the disabled V-vehicke and, in their wisdom, started selfie party around it. That's how all normal soldiers in contested areas spend their boring time.

As they were busy making heroic instagram posts, some looney tank went their way up the roads. Ukrainians, in their wisdom, guessed it was their fellow tank and cheered and invited it to come close and join the party.

Well, they guessed wrong. It was Russian tank. And it came closer, and it shoot the cannon into the party point blank.

There is a related video floating around with 3 female Georgian models supposedly taking part in the TikTok party with the disabled russian armoured vehicle (left track off). It is not easy to know who the other tank was, an alternate theory is it was ukrainian, shooting at the armoured vehicle marked with V's all over.

Someone digitally enhanced the video (warning: violent)
https://telegra.ph/file/d5a7cad4a169242d00fd6.mp4

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 11 2022 20:02 utc | 72

To the State Department/Right Sektor shill who has taken an ever braver approach to spouting lies and propaganda, I decided to follow up on your claims that 20% of Russians lack "indoor plumbing."

Turns out that's, pardon the pun, a bunch of shit.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-so-many-Russians-live-without-indoor-plumbing

TL/DR version? See the first answer on Quora provided by Borish Sanochkin. It's a lot more complicated than that - and - there isn't any actual research to back the claim that 20% don't have "indoor plumbing."

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 20:02 utc | 73

Finland has stated they will formally request NATO membership this year thanks to threat demonstrated to all "near abroad" countries by Zrussia's fatal error in obliterating Ukraine.

The 4th dimensional chess players in Russia are promising to obliterate Finland if they unfinlandize themselves.

Since all Russia has going for it is the threat of MAD it will be time to call the 4th dimensional bluff by summer.

I'm thinking sooner than that because Russia will run out of targets to obliterate before end of spring and still have nothing to show for it except, at best, a humiliating loss by winning in Ukraine.

Posted by: Useless meat beater | Apr 11 2022 20:06 utc | 74

james @35 -
Paveway is probably correct, I think. I had a good friend in middle school in Cleveland named George Crile III. He wrote a book called Charley Wilson's War about the US' secret involvement in funding and supplying the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to thwart the Soviet armed forces. George was an adventurous, risk-taking journalist and stuck his nose into a lot of rats' nests. One of the primary lessons to me is (was?) the apparent free-lance character of the CIA agents and fellow opportunists in that part of the world and in that era. Not to extrapolate, but my guess is that there is still a fair percentage of operators like that in the more remote theaters.

Having proposed that idea, I agree with paveway that there are factions that are more internally disciplined and that align more closely with one or another of the main strategic divisions within the main USUK tendencies.

I don't think, however, that there is enough agreement between them to build effective strategy - if such effectivity is possible in the UKR theater. As to direct military involvement of US forces, I'm with Scott. I think that the DOD is practical and self-interested enough to wait for better circumstances. Meantime, they are glad to spend their allocations and let others bleed.

Posted by: Paul Spencer | Apr 11 2022 20:09 utc | 75

bevin @60--

Thanks for your reply. IMO it's important to review what Glazyev said in this interview about Russia's central bank which is given from a Marxist--Class-based--analysis:

– But why, in your opinion, does the Central Bank of the Russian Federation pursue a policy in the interests of the enemy?

– As I said, it does this on the recommendation of the International Monetary Fund. But its interests are also shared by our large banks, which objectively like this policy, as well as our monetary and financial structures, which are also involved in manipulating the ruble exchange rate. Therefore, an influential lobby is formed around this policy, which supports this policy based on its own private interests. These interests run counter to the interests of the country, they are directly opposite to them. And, if you look at what the Central Bank is doing today, I have no doubts that it continues the policy of actually pandering to the enemy. It undermines macroeconomic stability by allowing international speculators to manipulate the ruble exchange rate and does not control the foreign exchange position of banks that have become currency speculators, although the Central Bank could easily withdraw banks from the foreign exchange market by fixing their foreign exchange position, forbidding banks to buy foreign currency. And secondly – by raising the interest rate, the Central Bank actually killed investments in the development of the Russian economy, which are very much needed right now, primarily for import substitution and for the restoration of economic sovereignty, while our leadership says that we should not be afraid of sanctions, because they create conditions for economic growth, for import substitutions.

But we also need to read what he said just before this:

"Therefore, when we talk about the nationalization of the Central Bank, we are not talking about formally nationalizing it (it has already been nationalized), but about bringing it into a policy of conformity with national interests. Right now, its policy is contrary to national interests. And there is no conspiracy here. We see in whose interests such a policy is pursued."

As for the oligarchs and tailoring the economy to the needs of citizens, Putin's been at that latter task for years and it continues now. Capital controls are aimed at capital flight and are reported to be working as designed. For Russia's budget and its National Projects, there's plenty of capital. What Glazyev laments is the lack of inexpensive capital for private, non-governmental development, which he expresses in the interview, which was given two weeks ago, and much has transpired over those 14 days. Galzyev's currently at the EEU working on the merger of EAEU with BRI and the new financial order. IMO, we reveal our impatience since we want to see certain things done yesterday that aren't ready yet; and since we're not privy, we don't know when, so we grumble.

As for the oligarchs, some are showing they're patriots, while others flee to their offshored dollars and euros, where they stand a good chance of being robbed because they're Russian. Fortunately, Russia's able to operate on much less capital than NATO/EU while producing superior results. Other developments feed into all this too, like the Pakistani coup that prompted the biggest nationwide protests ever in Pakistan. That's why it's called a World War.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2022 20:09 utc | 76

Discrimination of the Russian language is the Koshchey’s needle¹ of Ukrainian Nazism (Vzglyad, Igor Karaulov, March 23, 2022 — in Russian)

De-Nazification is one of the main demands regarding the Ukraine, for the sake of which Russia has launched the special military operation. This is a new concept for us, the meaning of which is not obvious. Therefore, it is necessary to specifically determine what should be the scope of de-Nazification of the Ukraine, with what methods it should be carried out. This issue causes great controversy in the Russian–Ukrainian negotiations. The Ukrainian side generally pretends that it does not understand what is at stake, since, according to the Kiev leadership, there is no Nazism and no Nazis in the Ukraine.

In a recent interview with RT, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that de-Nazification in the Ukraine implies the abolition of any laws that discriminate against the Russian-speaking population. In my opinion, this is the most important clarification. Until now, the theme of the fight against Nazism and the theme of the defense of the Russian language were conceived as separate categories. Now these two aspects can and should be considered in conjunction.

Today, the image of Nazism in the Ukraine is associated for us primarily with national battalions (or rather, national gangs), such as Azov, Aidar, Donbass, with paramilitary formations of the Right Sector, etc. Their symbols (for example, the Azov logo) often resemble or coincide with the symbols of the Third Reich. Sometimes flags with a swastika and banners of SS divisions (for example, Totenkopf) are found in their lairs. In many photographs, their commanders are happy to pose against the backdrop of such artifacts.

These strong visual images alone are able to convince a reasonable person of the abundance of Nazism in the Ukraine. No less impressive is the anti-human practice of these gangs: improvised prisons, torture at the Mariupol airport and in many other places in Donbass, the use of the population as human shields, shelling of refugee columns, extrajudicial killings of civilians, mining of hospitals, theaters and dangerous industrial facilities.

There are tens of thousands of these Nazis, no one forcibly mobilized them, they themselves chose their idea and their destiny. They put their symbols on their skin in the form of tattoos, which today in the besieged Mariupol, many of them are trying to remove with improvised means. The initial opinion that the national battalions are one thing, and the Armed Forces of the Ukraine are completely different, turned out to be not entirely correct. It turned out that convinced Nazis, like a mycelium, permeate all the power structures of the Ukraine. They make an accelerated career in the Armed Forces of the Ukraine, they are welcomed into the SBU, they play the role of commissars educating fighters in a nationalist spirit.

Nevertheless, I would venture to say that these crowds of tattooed sadists are only a secondary sign of Nazism. You can eliminate these people—others will come. You can ban Nazi organizations—new ones will appear in their place. So it will be, if you do not eliminate the conditions in which they bred. Nazi mold grows where it’s damp. And the ideological dampness in the Ukraine was bred by completely different people.

Such phenomena begins not with pumped-up youngsters, but with quiet, flimsy intellectuals. At first, they may seem like harmless provincial local historians, national costume enthusiasts, and experts in local customs. But it is they who create the “road map”, according to which the Nazi battalions will then draw their way. What will we see on this map? The image of a holy, suffering people with a forgotten but great history. The concept of aliens, invaders, oppressors who have been tyrannizing this people for centuries, preventing them from straightening their shoulders and taking their rightful place in the world. The concept of the right, svidomi² people and the wrong people—mankurts,³ Moskals, subhumans. The right people should be encouraged in every possible way, and the wrong ones should be driven out of their land.

Then comes the time of other people. Local historians in embroidered shirts are followed by people in gray suits—politicians and officials. These people are cynical, often corrupt, but they need an ideology to gain and retain power. Politicians take the picture of the world formed by the ideologists of Nationalism and translate it into the language of law.

This is how a legal system of discrimination is created, a system of domination of one part of the population over another. This domination is realized in two main directions: discrimination of the language of the people, declared second-class, and discrimination of its narrative, that is, its interpretation of history, culture, values.

An important feature of this system of domination is that it is not static. It has a built-in tightening mechanism. The pressure must constantly increase, the rights of the objectionable minority must be consistently curtailed. In the Ukraine, we saw this in full measure. It all started quite innocently; one could laugh at the fact that in a purely Russian-speaking city with a million inhabitants, such as Odessa or Dnepropetrovsk, all street signs are in Ukrainian. However, gradually the Russian language began to be expelled from education, from publishing, periodicals and from television, and in the end there was even a special regulation on the language of communication in stores, that is, the Russian language began to be persecuted in a purely domestic sphere.

It is the political and legal consolidation of the system of humiliation and suppression of a part of the people that guarantees the growth of marginal ultra-right groups that exist in any society into a powerful force. The state simply does not have any arguments against such groups, because, in fact, it is doing the same thing as they do, the difference is only in the pace, scale and methods. For example, when there was discrimination against blacks in the United States, the American state had no arguments against the Ku Klux Klan.

And in neighboring Canada, by the way, there was its own Ku Klux Klan, which acted against the Francophones, whom, despite their completely white skin color, the English-speaking population for a long time considered subhuman, since the then legislation provided for discrimination against both native French speakers and their culture. It was only about half a century ago that the current bilingualism was established in the country. And this is the best lesson that modern Ukraine-loving Canada could teach Ukrainians.

Thus, in order to prove the Nazi nature of the state built in the Ukraine, it is not at all necessary to list the crimes of the national battalions and demonstrate the collections of Nazi symbols they have collected. The fact that the Russian language, which is native to at least half of Ukrainian citizens, has no official status in that country, in itself makes the Ukrainian state Nazi.

By the way, the abolition of the law, which gave at least some rights to the Russian language, was the first act of the Verkhovna Rada after the overthrow of Yanukovych in 2014. It was because of that act that the withdrawal of Crimea and Donbass from the Ukraine began. It was then that the main priority of the new Ukrainian government was highlighted, but at the same time it became clear where its Koshchey’s needle¹ was.

In order for Nazism in the Ukraine to be destroyed and never revived, it is not enough to exterminate the Nazis and disperse their battalions. It is necessary to eradicate any discrimination against the Russian language and Russian culture.

Footnotes:

¹ Koshchey is a Russian fairytale villain who is immortal, except one weakness: his death is contained inside a needle—if the needle is broken, he dies. That’s why Koshchey goes to great lengths to protect it: he puts the needle inside an egg, the egg inside a duck, the duck inside a hare, the hare inside a chest, and chains the chest up to a tree on a far-away island. The Koshchey’s needle is used figuratively to refer to a well-hidden, but deadly weakness of a seemingly unstoppable evil, kinda like the Death Star’s thermal exhaust port.

² Svidomi is Ukrainian for “conscious”, “aware”. In the period when political debate still existed in the Ukraine (before Maidan), Ukrainian Nationalists kept calling those Ukrainians who acted according to their ideology svidomi, thus implying that their opponents are either stupid, unthinking or uninformed. That’s how svidomi became another political term for Ukrainian Nationalists and their followers. A parallel can be drawn to “woke”.

³ Mankurt is a brainwashed slave, made to forget his name, family and tribe, from Kyrgyz writer Chinghiz Aitmatov’s novel The Day Lasts More Than a Hundred Years.

Posted by: S | Apr 11 2022 20:16 utc | 77

Frankly, I'm surprised at the lack of importance given Lavrov's words, although I'm sure most Russians watched and listened. A video Martyanov posted at his blog showed a convoy of Russian troops heading for the front being cheered on and given WW2 battle flags, which for me was very moving. As b wrote, Russians have no illusions about the EVIL they face and the necessity of eliminating it, this time forever if at all possible. So, does that mean going all the way to the Channel and demilitarizing all of Europe?

Yes, it does...... Which is why I call the Russian Police Action...
"Operation Bagration II"

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Apr 11 2022 20:28 utc | 78

Maté and Blumenthal - both Jewish-Tribals - are projecting their Worldviews on Zelenskyy. That Zelensky was not a willing participant, etc.

They are wrong. Zelenskyy's Owner - Kolomoisky - happens to own Hunter&Pops via Burisma and Azov-Nazi.

Posted by: IronForge | Apr 11 2022 20:30 utc | 79

I posted this quote on b's previous piece but I'll post it again slightly expanded.

Lavrov stated on Monday that the operation in Ukraine aims to put an end to America's plans for global domination.

He also criticised EU top diplomat Josep Borrell for his latest statements, and noted that now the rules have changed drastically.

"This is an utterly serious change, even in the policy that the EU and the West under US leadership - there is no doubt about it - began to pursue after the start of our special military operation. A policy that reflects anger, in some ways even frenzy, and which, of course, is determined (...) by Ukraine being transformed into a foothold for the final suppression of Russia".

What astounds me and of course it's driven by the West's inherent racism, that imbues the very nature of Western society, is the complete lack of understanding of Russia's motive for neutralising the incipient Fascist state called Ukraine, itself an expendable, disposable 'asset' of US Imperialism! Yes, the Imperialist powers will fight Russia to the very last Ukrainian!

They either don't see or refuse to recognise the 27 million Soviet citizens who died in the Great Patriotic war, including my maternal relatives, I might add, that it's the fact that every, single Russian family lost at least one family member during that conflagration!

And when I first read the following, actually some time ago, it brought home the fact that, the word 'Untermensch' or 'under people' is embedded in Ukrainian society's view of ethnic Russians, you realise why even while 1000s of Russian soldiers die fighting in Ukraine, that the Russian people are solidly behind the 'police action' and that support has actually increased!

Bogdan Boutkevitch: "We don't need to understand the Donbas, we need to understand Ukrainian national interests. Donbas must be exploited as a resource, which it is." "At least 1.5 million people are superfluous". "No matter how cruel it may sound, there is a certain category of people who must be exterminated."

And who is funding these Fascists?

From WIKIPEDIA:

"According to the interim financial report Hromadske TV was funded in 2013 by the Netherlands Embassy (793,089 Ukrainian hryvnias, -Z-), the US Embassy (399,650 2) and by George Soros' International Renaissance Foundation (247,860).[16] By June 2014 Hromadske TV had received another 558,842a from the Government of Canada, 394,1812 from the Fritt Ord Foundation, 287,898? from the Embassy of the United States, Kyiv, 207,4022 from an auction organized by 'Dukat' (the Auction House) and 1,875,180a from individual contributors."?

Source: https://youtu.be/ICkcyt87Lw0

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 11 2022 20:34 utc | 80

Being involved in several long-running Twitter and text arguments/discussions with friends and family, literally all of whom buy the "What Nazis? That's Putin propaganda!" and other garbage mainstream narratives, I decided to look for a complete timeline of events starting just prior to Maidan and leading up to the Russian invasion/special military operation. I've managed to find several good articles about the Nazi issue, but I haven't found any one source (or even three) that lays out the happenings in Ukraine since just prior to Maidan. What I'm looking for is a summary or list like the following:

* US sends advisors and politicians to Ukraine (before and after Maidan coup)
* New Ukie gov't bans/criminalizes the use of the Russian language
* Other Ukie gov't legal and extra-legal persecution of Russians w/in Ukraine (inclusive of street violence, excommunication from groups, etc., the shutting down of pro-Russia/anti-Maidan media and murder of journalists)
* The various revolts that the Maidan coup sparked (easy to find stuff about Crimea, not so much other places in Ukraine) and how they were dealt with and most importantly by whom (the Azov, Right Sektor, etc.)
* The Russian response and actual involvement in any of what's happening in Donbass specific to their own training and/or arming of Donbass separatists

And the like. Obviously I could do a meticulous deep dive into MoA and other postings, such as Grayzone and Consortium News, but does anyone know of a one-stop writeup from either a pro-Donbass separatist/Russian or neutral perspective?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 20:38 utc | 81

A great article this morning. Thanks. A glimmer of sanity trying to emerge.

Posted by: Dim sim | Apr 11 2022 20:39 utc | 82

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 11 2022 19:32 utc | 68

Why do you bother responding to the cretin, 'Ghost of Kiev'? Because that's what he is, a ghost of Ukraine past.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 11 2022 20:42 utc | 83

To all the Ukrainians out there including the ghost haunting MOA. I feel for you, but you're not fighting for your homeland. You're fighting to sustain the military and financial tyranny the Empire uses to keep the world subservient to its hegemonic authority. You are mere pawns and slaves on its chessboard. Is neutrality not a far better fate? Why are you resisting neutrality? Isn't it because you are smitten with the power and wealth of the hegemon, and under the will of the evil neo-Nazi spirit disgracing your society? You are at the mercy of both.

Russia is not Mordor. The Empire is Mordor and Ukraine, you are Sméagol aka Gollum who is not totally evil because his role is essential to the destruction of the Evil Empire, but you are under the lure of the golden ring whose incpscription reads: One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all [vassals] and in the darkness bind them. The inscription signifies One Ring's power to control all other Rings of Power. Complete unipolarity is the Empire's goal, and Ukraine you are trying to seal that end and your fate.

The goal for Russia is not to seize total control of Ukraine, it is to thwart the Empire's plans to gain total power by destroying Russia.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 11 2022 20:48 utc | 84

" For 25 years people like myself have said that NATO expansion would lead to war. Putin said several times that if it came to Ukraine becoming a member of NATO, there would be no Ukraine anymore. "

What will Russia do when Finland and Sweden join NATO and get immediately flooded with NATO troops and hardware ? Wont the result be the same like if Ukraine joined NATO ? In fact, thats probably the plan which would explain the rapid buildup of troops and equipment on NATO's eastern borders and the stalling tactics the ZioAmericans are using. Both nations are slated to join early in the summer. If Russia attacks Finland at that point we will have WW3 and it will be blamed on the Russian's. Russia needs to pick up the pace and finish the operation before then, but can they ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 11 2022 20:52 utc | 85

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 20:38 utc | 80

Needless to say the Wikipedia articles on the situation are scrubbed of anything resembling neutral or pro-Russian/pro-Donbass separatist perspectives. It's somewhat possible to piece together a timeline using that as a starting point, and I have seen a few decent "here's what you need to know and aren't being told" articles, but I really want to get a good feeling for how the post-Maidan Ukrainian government has cracked down on dissent, discriminated against Russians/Russian speakers, and some on-the-ground statements from the people of Donbass regarding the shelling and being cut off from needed supplies that they endured in the immediate (let's say 2 year) aftermath of Maidan.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 20:53 utc | 86

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 11 2022 20:52 utc | 84

I'm not as sure about Sweden, but I just can't see the Finns sidling up to NATO in the official capacity. If Russia had ever wanted to invade or take territory from Finland, it would have happened a long time ago. That said, I could be underestimating the amount of arm twisting and propaganda being inflicted in Helsinki and throughout the region bordering Russia. For a fact US 'advisors' at the very least have been involved in military drills there, but Finland hasn't got any legitimate or 'organic' beef with Russia or Putin to my knowledge; only what I'm sure is a steady barrage of NATO courtship that they, up til now, seemingly ignored or relegated to the sidelines.

I agree with you that Sweden and Finland joining will lead to a huge catastrophe, but I also think cooler heads in both countries will prevail and that this is mainly another of the many psyops and information warfare being waged for domestic consumption in the US and the West and/or perhaps designed to provoke Russia to take further steps than they had planned in Ukraine rather than some written-in-stone decree.

There must be other MoA regulars who are better attuned to what's really being said in those places.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 20:58 utc | 87

False flag operation underway …

The underground infrastructure of the #Mariupol #Azovstal plant will be cleared of #Ukrainian militants by #Russian NBC Protection Troops …

https://twitter.com/abunin/status/1513510261663141890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

As promised …

The Azov Regiment reports that about an hour ago #Russian troops used a toxic substance of unknown origin against Ukrainian military and civilians in the city of #Mariupol.

The victims suffered from respiratory failure and vestibulo-attack syndrome.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1513598049251209222?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

  • US claims Russia planning `false-flag' operation to justify Ukraine invasion | The Guardian - Jan 14, 2022 |

  • ’Clear sign' Putin is weighing up use of chemical weapons in Ukraine, says Biden | The Guardian - Mar 22, 2022 |

Posted by: Oui | Apr 11 2022 21:01 utc | 88

According to Yasha Levine, anyone who questions the official narrative around the Bucha story is now a truther and a Russian massacre denialist:

I’ve been staying away from western commentary on the war in Ukraine, especially commentary coming out of the “anti-imperialist” camp. I just took a look at some of it yesterday and I gotta say I’m just shocked by how many people are ready to uncritically take the Russian government side on things.

The killing of a bunch of civilians in Bucha is a prime example. It’s pretty clear that Russian soldiers killed civilians there. There’s even a drone video of one of the kills, and satellite photos showing bodies on the street. It looks it happened, and it’s not surprising. Still I see people in complete denial mode, spreading interviews and articles that usually make some sort of argument that appeals to the “rationality” of Russian soldiers — “They’d never kill civilians,” they say. “Why would they? It goes against Russia’s interests!”


He is really earning his Twitter blue check nowadays...

Posted by: vato | Apr 11 2022 21:02 utc | 89

The vast majority believes that mankind’s first exploration of a new world was live-streamed.

I see no reason that any “truths” about Ukraine will “come out in the wash”… ever.

Posted by: anon | Apr 11 2022 21:02 utc | 90

Guys dont be too dramatic - this sh*t show will be over soon :)

Posted by: Macpott | Apr 11 2022 21:05 utc | 91

Borrell & Co : Offering to expedite EU membership for Georgia …

https://twitter.com/CivilGe/status/1513535932531630082

Far from united …

Garibashvili Makes Controversial Remarks on Ukraine, Again
https://civil.ge/archives/483425

The Prime Minister also doubled down on his earlier statements on the refusal to join sanctions against Russia, while also stressing Georgia’s support to Ukraine in international platforms. As for sanctions, he continued, Georgia will not impose economic sanctions against Russia.

Posted by: Oui | Apr 11 2022 21:09 utc | 92

Regarding Finland's and Sweden's accession to NATO, I think there is a history of military and intelligence cooperation, so that like Ukraine, Finland and Sweden are already de facto NATO allies. Officially joining NATO is a political move, rather than a fundamental change.

Posted by: bolangi | Apr 11 2022 21:11 utc | 93

"Zelensky has no chance of negotiating an end to the war. So the stakes are enormously high."

So what was stopping him from taking his exit given the enormous resistance by the Nazi cult to his peace President electioneering?

There's a gap in the logic here a pragmatist such as myself senses.

50 ways to leave your lover;

Get out the back Jack
Make a new plan Stan
No need to be coy Roy
Just get yourself free.

If someone were to ask me, I would say he was so enamored with all the attention he was receiving from a variety of powerful sources, his main backer the gangster Kolomoisky included, and the deposits to offshore accounts, he was turned.

My old bro, nasty piece of work that he was, knew a thing or two about this game and he would have designated the title of 'Shiny Face' to one Mr. Zelensky. No power, just a face the real power shoves in front of the public.

Shiny face folk of course require significant ego stroking and some decent financial rewards to keep them keen to please.

Posted by: bubbles | Apr 11 2022 21:13 utc | 94

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 11 2022 20:42 utc | 82

Yes indeed, these trolls make the thread illegible ...

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Apr 11 2022 21:13 utc | 95

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 11 2022 20:52 utc | 84
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 11 2022 20:58 utc | 86

If Finland and Sweden do join NATO, then the Russians will be forced to do something. I am worried about this scenario.

However, I think that neither Finland nor Sweden are Ukraine. Neither country is so corrupt, defunct, impoverished that it will allow the US to simply dictate policy to it in the way that the US is clearly controlling Ukraine. Will Finland allow the US to stage missiles in that country? Will Finland choose to go the way of the Poles? Or will Finland choose NOT to do this, and merely use NATO as a way of hedging its bets against Russia without committing full-on to the most aggressive US suggestions? I think it's hard to say.

Many people here--myself included--tended to think of Russia's special military operation against Ukraine as heralding the collapse of NATO. It might be that we were wrong; that in the short to middle term, at least, Russia's invasion has led to *at least* a superficial strengthening of NATO and European countries' financial commitment to it. The thought seems to be that it is only NATO which is preventing Russia's invasion of Poland, etc.; had Ukraine been part of NATO, RUssia would NOT have invaded; hence Finland and Sweden are motivated to become part of NATO.

But the dilemma for the US is this: supposing Finland *does* become part of NATO and *does* allow the US to stage missiles there. What happens if Russia tells Finland they have 1 day to begin dissassembly of the launchers after which they will be struck by a Kinzahl? What does the US do? Does the US then actually engage with Russia, leading to WW3 and quite probably a nuclear war? Does the US do nothing? If the US does nothing, however, then NATO really *will* lose its mythos; hence the US will be motivated to do something; but if the US does something, then it is very likely that nuclear warheads will be exchanged sooner rather than later.

What I do not understand is HOW any de-escalation is possible for either side at the moment. It is not possible for Russia because the perceived threat is existential. (Indeed, NATO spokespeople are more or less admitting the aim here is the destruction of Russia.) It is not possible for the US because of the hubris of the elites and the political momentum they have built up around escalation.

I also agree that NATO is not going anywhere *after* this operation, if it is not totally ruined, economically or reputationally or militarily, as one part of the operation. The moment that Russia stops and withdraws, all the same shit will go on, now on the border of whatever state or group of statelets Russia has created in place of Ukraine. Pressures will mount in Finland, Sweden, and elsewhere, and the US and NATO will commit even more $ and bodies to maintaining forces in Eastern Europe. NATO is a LONG WAY from learning its lesson, in other words. Can it learn its lesson without nuclear holocaust?

Posted by: WJ | Apr 11 2022 21:14 utc | 96

Any minute now:

https://t.me/neoficialniybezsonov/11280

Friends, great news! Another large batch (much more than 100 people) of Ukrainian Marines of the 36 brigade voluntarily surrendered in Mariupol. And they did the right thing. Sooner or later they will return to their families. Those who do not lay down their arms will simply die.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 11 2022 21:15 utc | 97

Tom_Q_Collins @ 80
Seven Decades of Nazi Collaboration: America’s Dirty Little Ukraine Secret
The book mentioned in the article can be found on Scribd

Posted by: circumspect | Apr 11 2022 21:22 utc | 98

I'm sorry to say that there is only one party (fittingly abbreviated V) in the Swedish parliament that is reliably against NATO, and they are universally reviled in mainstream political circles. They have healthy popular support though, although nowhere near enough to make a difference. I would venture a guess that popular support for the SMO is almost nonexistent, and popular support for NATO is now sharply up at around 50%.

Swedish media reporting about the SMO is as far as I have seen 100% propaganda even in the alternative media. The Russian perspective just does not exist.

Posted by: p | Apr 11 2022 21:22 utc | 99

Posted by: WJ | Apr 11 2022 21:14 utc | 94

On the contrary, the lesson that everyone is learning at the moment is that NATO is completely useless. After 8 years of supplying and training a massive army that was supposed to fight the Russians the only thing NATO can do is stand outside of the conflict and look silly. It's over, in few years the burden of maintaing an expensive defensive posture - for a lot of countries in EU, 2% of military expenditure per year means constant recessions - will be so high that NATO will be quietly downgraded; to what I don't know.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 11 2022 21:24 utc | 100

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