Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 9, 2022
More Evidence That Ukraine Fired The Missile Which Killed Dozens In Kramatorsk

This is a follow on to yesterday's Ukrainian Tochka-U missile strike on the Kramatorsk railway station. Russia no longer has Tochka missiles (search for Tochka in the pdf) while the Ukraine, Belarus and several other states still use them.

There is now additional evidence that the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces. The facts do not matter in 'western' media who stick to whatever story they are told to produce. Still, I do believe that facts matter at least in the long term and that there is a historic value in documenting them.

The Tochka-U is a tactical missile with a maximum range of some 120 kilometer. It is typically fired from a transporter, erector, launcher vehicle (TEL) with little need of preparations.

The TEL vehicle for the Tochka is a six wheeled BAZ 5921 /5922. These are amphibious floating hull chassis. The picture below shows a BAZ TEL in parade mode with a Tochka missile slightly erected.  In the normal transport mode the missile lies horizontally under a protective roof.


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There were several claims of such vehicles being seen in Belarus or with Russian forces in Ukraine. But not every six wheeled BAZ vehicle can be said to be a Tochka missile TEL or Tochka transporter. There are various look alike variants of the vehicle with radar or communication equipment or simply used as transporters or ferries for all kind of goods.


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The Tochka missile, below in a firing position, consists of a rocket engine, four fins and grids to direct its course, a solid fuel compartment and a warhead at its front. A complete missile weighs about 2,000 kilogram.


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There are various warhead types available which weigh about 500 kilogram each.

The warhead which was used in Kramatorsk is a fragmentation one with 20 sub-munitions (gray) each with some 7.5 kilogram of explosives enclosed in a metal hull.


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Over the target area these sub-munitions get expelled and explode while still in the air and each one creates some 800 fragments. The warhead thus leaves no hole in the ground but expels a huge number of deadly metal fragments at high speed over a relative large area. The Tochka missiles are not very precise. They have a circular error probability (CEP) of some 150 meters. They are so called area weapons to be used against concentrations of infantry or unarmored vehicles.

After being fired the rocket engine propels the warhead towards is destination. Shortly before the impact the warhead separates from the booster section and continues its path while the rocket engine shuts down. Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.

Which brings us to the scene in Kramatorsk. Several pictures from the scene show the booster section of the missile.


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The place where it landed was geo-located as being near a parking space some 60 meter west-southwest of the railway station. Here is the Google maps view of the railway station area. The warhead explosions happened on the east side of the station over the departure platform.

The location of the booster debris and where the explosion happened allows one to point out the trajectory from where the missile was fired. I have checked the locations depicted below and found them to be correct.

North is to the top. The station is encircled and the point is where the booster section landed. The arrow shows the trajectory the missile must have taken.


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Oh, the map is annotated in Russian and you don't trust Russian sources? Well, here is the New York Times posting a similar map.


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Here is map from Liveuamap depicting the current front lines in Ukraine. Kramatorsk is marked in yellow.


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Note that there are no Russian or Russia-aligned forces west-southwest of Kramatorsk within the 120 km maximum range of a Tochka missile. The missile must have been fired by Ukrainian forces.

Unsurprisingly the Russian military has come to the same conclusion:

An analysis of the engagement radius of the warhead, as well as the characteristic position of Tochka-U missile's tail section, clearly confirm that it was launched from a south-western direction away from Kramatorsk.

According to intelligence reports, one of the divisions of the 19th Missile Brigade armed with Tochka-U missile systems at the time of the strike on Kramatorsk was located near Dobropol'e in Donetsk Region, 45 km south-west of Kramatorsk.

This area is still under the full control of the Ukrainian military grouping troops in Donbass.

The publicly available evidence shows that the Ukrainian military must have fired the missile that killed some 50 Ukrainian civilians in Kramatorsk.

The only purpose of the attack I can think of was to create propaganda that, when distributed as 'Russian attack' through 'western' media, will create more military support for Ukraine.

Everyone who urges to give more arms to the Ukraine or who eggs it on to continue this war is guilty of creating impetus for more incidents like the one seen in Kramatorsk.

Comments

Something I had not thought about in relation to Russia but I had noticed with the Chechen and Dagistan people. The concept of honour.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 10 2022 8:25 utc | 401

jared #333

I cant resist to add my two cents about the missile path.
I dont know the path.
I suspect the system concept is that the rocket motor is to decelerate after separation so as to not interfer with trajectory of the warhead.
I feel certain there are miltary people and engineers who know full well how the respective parts generally fall and I suspect that is an aspect of the design.
Perhaps that is what B is saying – This is how they fall and why (ie not a theory).
However, regarding the physics:
The objects are under the influence of gravity and air resistance alone once moving as projectile.
All objects fall at the same rate except for the effect of air resistance.

I get the impression that this is an accurate missile system with a fair range of around 150kms. When targeting a close range of 40kms the missile is configured to shut off fuel at the programmed point of separation between missile power section at rear and warhead at front.
The warhead then proceeds on to target under ballistic motion and some guidance/stabilising mechanics. Perhaps the spent missile is then guided just enough to keep clear of the now disconnected warhead.
The warhead then proceeds to predetermined position and scatters the multiple explosive charges.
I get the impression it is a fairly accurate device intended to have an effect in a 150meter target area.
I am not really ‘informed’ here but have gleaned this plus applied a little logic to it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 8:26 utc | 402

S #347
Thank you I missed that post. You are much more informed on these than I.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 8:30 utc | 403

uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 8:30 utc | 398
Refer to Paveway’s post and S’s later post linking to the Russian wikipedia.
Also karlof1’s post on reconciling the pics of the booster to the total lack of material damage due to fragments in any high def pic.
Pics of the booster compared to others look genuine in this photoshop world. Russia MoD state the place the missile was launched from. No fragmentation damage… it’s a f–king Orwellian world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 10 2022 8:41 utc | 404

This is an attempt to stop them from bombing railways and railway stations.
You mean like they torture and murder Russian POWs to get more to surrender ?

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 10 2022 8:49 utc | 405

Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 8:45 utc | 401
BM | Apr 9 2022 12:14 utc | 20
Hollywood superman/batman crap always portrays the US good guy vs the ultimate evil. That is the mindset of the western population. Any population if that is all they are told.
We are feed a conveyor chain of ultimate evils that must be destroyed. Russia is just the latest to drop of the end of the conveyor chain serving up ultimate evil to the mind dead civilized west. China is sort of hanging over the edge at the moment, being demonized but at the moment relegated to second best ultimate evil.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 10 2022 8:56 utc | 406

@S #347
I don’t see any launch video, the missiles are already in the air.
Tochka’s booster continues behind the explosion, this video proves it:
https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1512613047025770496

Posted by: Logol | Apr 10 2022 8:58 utc | 407

Is Johnson planning to take us into war? Is he planning an attempt to rescue British servicemen trapped in the Azovstal factor at Mariupol.
https://johnplatinumgoss.com/2022/04/10/what-did-johnson-and-zelensky-really-discuss/

Posted by: John Goss | Apr 10 2022 9:06 utc | 408

Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 10 2022 7:56 utc | 393
Thanks for reminding us about the German invasion. Mark Felton did a very graphic video on it some time ago. Here is the video that popped up following Quislings speech. Norway’s interests would be best served by strict neutrality. Stoltenberg is crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-ND7TQYshg

Posted by: Paul | Apr 10 2022 9:09 utc | 409

The Tochka-U flight characteristics in the terminal stage of dropping the cluster canisters will make it hard for us to tell from where it was launched. If someone had filmed the thing flying in they would have the general direction of its origin. Otherwise wind conditions and how the missile tumbles after releasing the canisters makes this determination a hit or miss, given how the missile approaches the target.
The reason is found in these two quotes from russian websites discussing military matters.
1) “When approaching the target for more efficient use of the energy of the warhead explosion, the missile performs a maneuver (additional rotation along the pitch angle), which provides an angle of meeting the charge with the target close to 90°. ”
https://tinyurl.com/2p8dnxnm
2) “On the final part of the trajectory, the rocket is rotated and vertically dives on the target.”
https://tinyurl.com/2k5t4bsm
The following graph shows this clearly. Terminal Stage being time “t2”.
“Figure 10. Schematic of the trajectory curvature.” —> https://tinyurl.com/2p994kjy
Vertical or near vertical approach is the logical approach when attacking a stationary target. What actually happened is at best guess work with the little information we have.
Now some data from the field where the release of these canisters above the target “area” is discussed. Notice that they know from what direction the Tochka came !!!
“What a beauty! A clear field, ideal for counting and evaluating. It contains 45 + craters from these very combat elements (a certain percentage of non-working submunitions is common for any cluster weapon, especially for an over 20-year-old, as in this case). They are distributed in a circle with a diameter of approximately 300 m.
Note that the engine compartment, separated at an altitude of 2.2 km, fell 400 meters west of the center of the affected area. Despite the fact that the rocket was flying from north to south. I.e. the compartment went to the right in the direction of firing. Did this happen under the influence of random factors, or is it a deviation characteristic of all missiles? The question hung in the air.
Here a fair question may arise: “what makes you think that this is a” dot ” left? they’re just hail craters!” Fair. Let’s take a closer look at the tracks.
Their characteristic feature is the shape – a regular circle. Unlike the barrel projectile (and most rocket-propelled artillery, too), 9H24 submunitions land vertically due to a cloth stabilizing device. And the area affected by shrapnel is equally directed in all directions, as a result of which you can observe a trace in the form of a regular circle. While flying at an angle fragmentation shells of artillery systems leave a characteristic fan.”
The height of separating the munition canisters from the missile is repeated on various Russian websites as being around 2225 meters, as well in the following document’
“NATO Explosive Ordnance Disposal
Centre of Excellence – Slovak Republic
FORMER WARSAW PACT
AMMUNITION HANDBOOK”
https://tinyurl.com/3na7m2at
where we find,
“d. Safety and initiating mechanism 9E117 is the same as in 9N123F warhead. However exist one difference, signal for activation is received from radio sensor, not from proximity fuze.
e. Radio sensor 9E326 2,250 m above the ground (by surface reflection) sends electric signal to safety and initiating mechanism”
Some info about the cluster warhead.
“- 9H123K – cluster warhead. Contains 50 frag elements with 1,5 kg of explosive and 316 shrapnel in each. At a height of 2250 meters above the surface, the automatics opens the cassette, as a result of which up to seven hectares are sown with fragments;”

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 9:20 utc | 410

Boris Johnson trip to “Kiev” April 9th:
Flight ZZ336 – U.K. royal airforce
Departed to Poland at 7h33
Landed back in Brize Norton U.K. at 17h28
Train journey Poland to Kiev: 7 hours each way
The studio set of “Servant of the People “ must be in Poland or Lviv as there is no time to travel to Kiev .
It’s a European Hollywood.

Posted by: Maria | Apr 10 2022 9:30 utc | 411

Peter AU1 #399
Thank you, finally catching up after hectic day.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 9:42 utc | 412

John Goss #405
The Apache! What a ship and what a crew. They have some serious mansplaining ahead of them. I suggest we won’t see much of them for a year or two as sailing the Azov sea is not for the faint hearted even at the best of times and right now it has some immensely experienced Russian warships with serious intent on their minds.
“I am a maniac, I am coming to you” and then the Russians opened up a welcome salvo!!
Loved it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 9:56 utc | 413

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 10:17 utc | 411
You forgot to mention Trotsky’s most toxic gift to the world – the American Zionist neocons whose founders came from his ideological bossom.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 10 2022 10:27 utc | 414

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 10:20 utc | 412
“They’re trying to make Russia bombing trains and train stations toxic by doing false flags at these train stations in the hope that Russia will quit attacking them.”
Interesting idea. And the fact that they can turn it into a propaganda win against the Russians is icing on the cake.
My guess is someone at the CIA or MI6 thought that one up.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 10 2022 10:29 utc | 415

It is said in a news at RT ( which I now need to access through a VPN located out of Europe, that is in the Middle East…) that the EU behaves as a de facto NATO´s economic department.
Well, I would say that it also behaves as NATO´s ideologicla department, since, as I can test here, you, citizens of the USA, can access and link Russian media freely, thus, you enjoy kind of freedom of information, while in the EU we are submitted now to a harsh censorship more proper of fascist dictatorships ( which we are into de facto two years ago…) where, as happens in the Ukraine under Zelensky regime, the whole media have been led to offer the same verbatim pieces of narrative, all this repeated without stop 24/7, like happened during the pandemic, from breakfast time to last hours before going to bed….
That tells me that the plans of the US pass through keeping the EU´s population under brainwashing by racist extremist fascist ideology which it deems instrumental to contain or defeat Russia in European soil, while the US population remains in their island enjoying a munimum of liberties and prosperity ( as they evade their own sanctions they impose on the European lackeys…) which asure TPTB remain in power without risking their people´s revolt.
Well, as that will not wash, if you think that we will continue wake¡ing up at night, working hard during all day, to arrive at home exhausted to have dinner and a minimum od sleep only in exchange of hunger, misery, and an intelectual panorama worth a cactus, so that you can keep your “American way of life”, you are there for a rude awakening….
We will get rid of you, of your plundering, of your dictated to others slavery, and of your ideological, economical and living constrains, even if that is the last thing I have to do in this world….

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 10:30 utc | 416

Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 9:20 utc | 407
“The Tochka-U flight characteristics in the TERMINAL STAGE OF DROPPING THE CLUSTER CANISTERS … etc.”
This is irrelevant. What matters is the trajectory of the missile BEFORE that phase.

Posted by: LongCOVID | Apr 10 2022 10:31 utc | 417

Robert Lindsay #411

Sometimes I think that sonofabitch deserved that icepick!

More appropriately, all the Trotsky acolytes, especially to the present day.
Boo #414
Indeed. He has a most detestable legacy.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 10:35 utc | 418

On railway bombings.
IMO the Lvov/Lviv station needs to be rearranged soon and then perhaps the city administrative centre. And so on. Forget Kiev. Give the Ukronazis a message on their ‘home city’. It should receive a daily calling card every day the eastern front exists. The Ukronazis would understand that form of messaging from what I see.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 10:43 utc | 419

“The direct purpose of the attack is to terrorize Ukrainian civilians, since such terrorism is the only real tactic the Ukronazis have left and the only way they hold onto their power. Otherwise the people, while they never were going to “rise up”, would migrate away from the combat zones and in general stop obeying the Kiev regime and look to their own survival.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Apr 9 2022 12:06 utc | 15
Almost everyone in Kramatorsk is saying that the Ukrainians shot the missile. All the eyewitnesses say the missile came from the west-southwest, Ukrainian territory. They even named the town they thought it came from.
Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 10:30 utc | 416″

Of course they are. For their most direct purposes the Ukronazis actually want the people to know who launched it, since their purpose is terrorism against the populace.
The Ukronazis have the somewhat delicate task of simultaneously making the direct targets aware of who’s targeting them, while at the same time providing the empire with material for its “Russia did it” propaganda. Thus the consistent clumsiness of the latter efforts.
(Real Nazis usually have contempt for propaganda once they’ve embarked upon open total violence. Himmler actually prohibited propaganda efforts in the concentration camps, and various Nazi occupation rulers and generals did the same. Thus for example Jodl ordering the removal of signs in Russian at railway crossings warning people to stay off the tracks.)

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Apr 10 2022 11:00 utc | 420

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 10 2022 1:12 utc | 337
Thanks! Downloaded and installed to replace an add-on which was not completely satisfactory!

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 11:02 utc | 421

Posted by: S | Apr 10 2022 1:52 utc | 347
With these explanations in mind one should read or read again thomas’ “explanations” about the origin of the rocket.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 11:07 utc | 422

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 10 2022 10:43 utc | 422
Agreed. It would be great shame and injustice that eastern part of Ukraine gets razed and pro Russian population killed, yet western part – home of those same neo nazis doing genocide – to get spared.
In old times, those western settlements would get razed and population chased over the border to more “friendly” NATO countries, let them keep those nazis. Let the western ukraine be empty dmz/buffer zone.

Posted by: Abe | Apr 10 2022 11:09 utc | 423

And about “socialists” which means communists, trust me when I say that almost all Russian communists and socialists for that matter support Putin at least critically and they all support the war. All of the communist parties support Putin and the war.
Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 10:55 utc | 425

It is the PCR which introduced the bill at the Duma to recognize both Donbass Republics.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 11:14 utc | 424

Posted by: Maria | Apr 10 2022 9:30 utc | 408
With the abundance of AdProm/Media firms in London Johnson could have stayed at Brize Norton with a green screen and had Zelensky blended into the set from his own studio……..your point is well made the timing does not marry with the imagery………
but we are inside the Matrix and Illusion is conducive to Delusion……….Johnson is an Horatio Bottomley figure (go google) and needs a gay dancer as his prop

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 10 2022 11:17 utc | 425

It wasn’t Azov. It was the Ukrainian Army!
Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 10:46 utc | 423

Yes, but the commandings officers are ukronazis.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 11:18 utc | 426

The following image https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2017-05/1495470892_view_belo1.jpg
shows the missile aim point (the white square mentioned in the material posted by Tom_12)
Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 1:33 utc | 343
Wrong. The photo – made in 2017 as link tells! – is hardly related to whatever Tom 12 claims about last days event.
And rectangual dran there is “motor section” – двигательный отсек – found lying on the ground, while the “aim point” should obviously be the center of the impact circle.
> I count 46 explosion sites. There are supposed to be 20 sub-munition cannisters each containing an unknown number of sub-munitions.
Wow! Read my comment on the 2nd page, from which you took the aerial photo.
There are 50 submunitions in one single warhead.
Each submunition explodes hitting ground, selling many very small fragments around, like hand grenade.
cannisters? There are either 50 or 1. Cannister of submunitions = warhead. Or cannisters of fragments = submunitions. 20 is some disconnected number.
46 craters fit 50 submunitions nice. 4 could be craters barely seen from photo, or fused with another crater if two canisters got fallen together, or indeed failed to explode for any reason (can instantly invemt at least 3).

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 10 2022 11:24 utc | 427

In such situations I always ask myself “Who is benefitting?” from such attacks? Russia ? In what way?
Ukraine ? Huge propaganda value in the western media and more weapons supplied by US and NATO.

Posted by: Tom | Apr 10 2022 11:29 utc | 428

To Robert Lindsay and others / #423
Lets not forget what L.G. Reshetnikov of the Russian Armed Forces told us. They are fighting a NATO-zomby enemy let by the C&C of foreign nation:
“Every Android, every iPhone is continuously bugged, every Facebook, WhatsApp and other apps continuously transmit information, all processed by the full power of artificial intelligence systems, forming a map for real-time targeting. (…)
What to do with the population?
NATO early warning aircraft with experienced crews fly over Romania and Poland, and US intelligence satellites are constantly in the sky. (…)
The US not only sees our troops on the ground, they see our planes, drones, study radar fields, estimate the approach time of calibers, they constantly give target instructions to the Ukrainian generals online from the Operations Control Center in Poland. (…)
As soon as our troops notice the Ukrainian artillery, the Tochka-U missile brigades immediately know exactly where and how to advance, when to launch and how much time they have to leave the position.
So the Ukrainian Nazis always know where the gaps are in the rear of our columns.
It’s not her eyes and her brain. They are the eyes and brains of NATO. The Ukronazis are nothing but freely controlled zombies. And the Ukrainian army is a remote-controlled zombie organism.

Posted by: njet | Apr 10 2022 11:40 utc | 429

@ thomas: 24 & 26
You have not allowed for the fact that without the pointy bit at the front (the warhead) the aft section of the missile has the aerodynamics of a barrel. It would certainly decelerate faster than the aerodynamically shaped warhead during unpowered separated flight and therefore is certain to impact the ground short of the target, not longer as you assume.
Your analysis is invalidated by failure to consider this.
@ Opport Knocks
YOu are correct. Amateur analysis has some value, but is not conclusive.
Russia has the radar and electronic records, but they would be prermptorily dismissed.
But NATO knows.
NATO radar and electronic reconnaissance aircraft (E-3, RC-135, RQ-48, etc.,) and satellites are constrantly monitoring everything in Ukraine.
NATO radar and other electronic records will definitively prove the launch site of the missile.
I have done a similar analysis but extended it to show the region from which it was likely launched.
But I conclude the analysis with a demand to see NATO records which should prove the origin beyond doubt.
https://ltexpat.blogspot.com/2022/04/analysis-of-direction-of-flight-of.html

Posted by: Ltexpat | Apr 10 2022 11:57 utc | 430

This is irrelevant. What matters is the trajectory of the missile BEFORE that phase.
Posted by: LongCOVID | Apr 10 2022 10:31 utc | 417
I wrote that at the start of my comment,
“The Tochka-U flight characteristics in the terminal stage of dropping the cluster canisters will make it hard for us to tell from where it was launched. If someone had filmed the thing flying in they would have the general direction of its origin.”
However people are trying to ascertain the origin from data on the ground. In this case knowing what happens during terminal stage is relevant. Without knowing HOW THE TOCHKA flies you can not know how to interpret this ground data.
Researching information about Tochka gives the necessary information which shows the problem of drawing a line between cluster munition landing area and the resting place of the rocket motor, it is not a reliable method.
Without a witness or a film, makes the estimation of the origin questionable.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 11:59 utc | 431

Version: The Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 is staged and the result of a conspiracy between the Trotskyists of the USSR and the USA.
I watched with great interest the discussions at the MoA about the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 and the possibility of nuclear war. I would like to present an alternative view of the event. I don’t know how interesting it is for MoA visitors, but I decided to speak out anyway. But first, a little background.
In January 1929, after Trotsky was expelled from the country, the pro-national part of the Communist Party, whose leader was Stalin, finally came to power in the USSR. The Trotskyists and the remnants of the Leninist guard who made the October 1917 coup and represent supranational globalists are removed from power, but remain in many minor leadership positions. In May of the same year, the economic course in the USSR also changed dramatically, the modernization of industry began – industrialization. In the period from 1929 to 1936, an inner-party struggle between Trotskyists and Stalinists was going on inside the country. A reflection of this struggle is the assassination of Kirov, an ally of Stalin, in 1934. Trotskyists cross the line. In addition, Hitler came to power in Germany in 1933, and Stalin realized that the supranational globalists were preparing a springboard for an attack on the USSR. In 1936-1938, Stalin initiates the purge of the party and military apparatus from Trotskyist elements, the famous Stalinist repressions. The bulk of the Trotskyists have been crushed, but many manage to escape the purge and go deep underground.
After the war, crypto-Trotskyists are activated. Stalin initiates a new round of struggle against them: “The Fight against Cosmopolitanism” and “The Case of Poison Doctors”. This struggle was also anti-Semitic in nature. In 1952, the crypto-Trotskyites managed to achieve the elimination of General Vlasik, Stalin’s long-term head of security, through intrigues. March 1953 Stalin’s poisoning. The crypto-Trotskyist Khrushchev comes to power.
The “Struggle Against Cosmopolitanism” and “The Case of Doctors” are immediately terminated. The USSR stops helping China in the Korean War.
1956 20th Congress of the CPSU. Stalin is anathematized. 1957 The defeat of the Anti-Party Group, Stalin’s associates: Malenkov, Molotov, Kaganovich. Trotskyists completely seize power in the USSR. From this moment begins a gradual departure from the Stalinist model of socialism, the weakening of the state, the growth of admiration for the West and its values. Since that time, supranational elites have been able to coordinate their actions within the US and the USSR in order to achieve their goals. If we now return to the Caribbean crisis of 1962, it is reasonable to assume that it was part of a big game of supranational elites. Firstly, it is to instill fear in the world, to control the level of hatred between Americans and Russians. Secondly, this is the strengthening of Khrushchev’s authority in the USSR, which was extremely low, “forcing” the United States to remove missiles from Turkey. Some goals, probably, were achieved by the Trotskyists in the United States. I am not an authority on US history.
Therefore, based on all of the above, there is no certainty in the possibility of a nuclear war between the USSR and the USA in 1962. Trotskyists controlled many processes in the USA and the USSR. Stalin and his heirs were removed from power. Did the Trotskyists make sense to start an atomic war?

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 12:16 utc | 432

Nato puppet and mouthpiece Jens Stoltenberg has said Nato intends to have a permanent military presence on the alliance’s Eastern border in an effort to contain future Russian military actions

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 10 2022 12:17 utc | 433

Maria | Apr 10 2022 9:30 utc | 408:
If Boris was on Flight ZZ336 – U.K. royal airforce, this confirms the impossible timescale https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/zz336

Posted by: NotEinstein | Apr 10 2022 12:20 utc | 434

Look Out
New Navy Frigate!!
Ukraine closes sea area in north-western part of Black Sea to repel Russian aggression.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-defense/3414227-ukraine-closes-sea-area-in-northwestern-part-of-black-sea-to-repel-russian-aggression.html

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 12:35 utc | 436

Replying to Not Einstein
Indeed. Hence my thought that they must be using the countless studio settings and props of the TV series and filming either in Poland or Lviv.
First I struggled with the actual video footage & said to myself “they must have really gone there”. Then it hit me, there are studio replicas & backdrops of it all already available from zelensky the actor playing president of Ukraine.
Proving beyond doubt he was on that flight is another matter of course.

Posted by: Maria | Apr 10 2022 12:42 utc | 437

Russia is again making history with this military action.
I think it represents itself well in this and is bringing the drivers of former world order into the light of day.
Russia is creating an interesting story that captures the interest of the public – what they are doing, its quite something. And it will become moreso as the results start adding up – they gain control of the east and weaken their army and gain some support from the people and prosecute the nazis and their supporters and harden their economy and economic system and their alliances and other countries see they have an alterative to domination by the west*. Anyone who has an understanding is fairly impressed at this point.
* Unfortunately weak democratic nations are most suseptible to regime change and pressure on nominal leaders.

Posted by: jared | Apr 10 2022 12:56 utc | 438

Firstly, it is to instill fear in the world, to control the level of hatred between Americans and Russians. Secondly, this is the strengthening of Khrushchev’s authority in the USSR, which was extremely low, “forcing” the United States to remove missiles from Turkey. Some goals, probably, were achieved by the Trotskyists in the United States. I am not an authority on US history.
Therefore, based on all of the above, there is no certainty in the possibility of a nuclear war between the USSR and the USA in 1962. Trotskyists controlled many processes in the USA and the USSR. Stalin and his heirs were removed from power. Did the Trotskyists make sense to start an atomic war?
Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 12:16 utc | 438
Nice job !!!!
The problem I see is that a Westerner reading “Trotskyists” as related to US will simply not know how to grapple with this idea,
“We had no Trotskyites. If they were present FBI would have arrested them !!!”
To suggest that Obama is one would invite being called mentally ill. If different words are used all hell will break out here. But I definitely think that there was synchronization between those in US and those in USSR to generate a constant level of fear. Just my intuition. How this is synchronized is pure speculation because that secret must certainly be buried fairly deep away from public notice.
I’ll give you a very stupid fear generation example from the US, that I suspect was artificially generated (amount of coverage in MSM). Fear of needles, razor fragments etc. in candy, apples, etc. given to kids on Halloween Night. This got started in late 1970’s continued on for decades, resulting in fear to let kids play or do things without the parent involved. This fear would have spilled over to the kids. I am generalizing, but I vividly recall how street life started to die out and move toward “stay at home” or “mom will take you to soccer”. Today we can see to what majestic levels fear has been taken (kids of the 70’s-80’s) where adults fear talking to someone who dean’s have a cloth mask. Nuts.
https://thecounter.org/fear-of-tainted-halloween-treats/
The kids growing up now will be fearful of the word “Russian” for the rest of their life. Hollywood and MSM will make sure that they have the worst images implanted in them which are associate with the word “Russia”.
“Here is the new Bogeyman” operations never end.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/barack-obama-was-a-card-carrying-socialist

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 13:07 utc | 439

From the Ukrainian’s.
Notice the disclaimer at the bottom.
Russian army losses update: 19,300 personnel, 722 tanks, 152 aircraft
10.04.2022 11:32
As of April 10, the Russian army already lost about 19,300 personnel in Ukraine.
“From February 24 to April 10, the enemy lost 722 tanks, 1,911 armored personnel vehicles, 342 artillery systems, 108 MLRS, 55 anti-aircraft warfare systems, 1,384 vehicles, 152 aircraft, 137 helicopters, 7 boats / cutters, 76 fuel tanks, 112 UAVs of operational and tactical level, 25 special equipment units, 4 mobile SRBM systems,” the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine posted on Facebook.
Data are being updated. The calculation is complicated by the high intensity of hostilities.

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 13:12 utc | 440

Projected losses of Ukraine forces 10/04 (click on English version):
https://t.me/rybar/30943

Posted by: Boo | Apr 10 2022 13:15 utc | 441

Apache freighter an escape-attempt diversion?
Hard to imagine anyone thought it would even get to the quayside, let alone pick up passengers and then escape.
Signal fires on shore imply coordination with encircled force.

Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 10 2022 13:16 utc | 442

Another 10 Downing Street official production: ‘meaningful handshake’ featuring Germany’s Scholz and UK’s Johnson.
https://youtu.be/zGSVY3GmZ5w
(I feel a bit like I’m in a forced labour camp but I don’t want to find out what comes after the corgi. And I miss the bar.) Where to get high tea in Montréal – updated Feb. 25, 2022
https://www.mtl.org/en/experience/spots-enjoy-english-teatime-montreal
Kentucky cum Francophone-Canada — poutine with sausage ears and homemade sausage, maple syrup aged in bourbon barrels, maple butter on pizza… this piece from today’s Vaughan Today has it all.
https://www.vaughantoday.ca/maple-syrup-aged-in-bourbon-barrels/
Bon appétit!

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Apr 10 2022 13:26 utc | 443

Cringe worthy or should that be embarrassing for all UK Citizens?
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said:
It is a privilege to be able to travel to Ukraine and meet President Zelenskyy in person in Kyiv today.
Ukraine has defied the odds and pushed back Russian forces from the gates of Kyiv, achieving the greatest feat of arms of the 21st century.
It is because of President Zelenskyy’s resolute leadership and the invincible heroism and courage of the Ukrainian people that Putin’s monstrous aims are being thwarted.
I made clear today that the United Kingdom stands unwaveringly with them in this ongoing fight, and we are in it for the long run.
We are stepping up our own military and economic support and convening a global alliance to bring this tragedy to an end, and ensure Ukraine survives and thrives as a free and sovereign nation.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-pledges-uks-unwavering-support-to-ukraine-on-visit-to-kyiv-9-april-2022

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 13:29 utc | 444

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 10 2022 2:18 utc | 350
Peter – I sought to verfiy b’s assertion with respect to firing location of missile. What I can find supports a firing location 240 true from point of impact ie in Ukrainian controlled area.
I haven’t looked at many scenes of the dead (have seen too much of that in real world and the recent inner-tubes) but I agree with you and old hippie that the scene is odd. One picture I have viewed shows prostrate figures with close image of leg. No sign any shrapnel wounding. Given this image of the sub-munitions and streamers (see image to left of the cutaway warhead):
https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2017-05/1495470697_9n123k1.jpg
the bomblet is intended to land upright with contact fuze on the botton. The estimated height of the bomblet is 12″ and it fragments radially from point of impact. So you have fragments, or flechettes, travelling at a height from ankle to upper thigh region. These should tear the flesh of anyone in range. No evidence of that in the one picture seen.
This is an anti-personnel weapon (but will likely destroy soft skinned trucks) and has limited effect on a railway track. I thnk it unlikely the RF would use it to destroy a rwy network. High explosive warhead is a more appropriate for rwy destruction.
Paveway IV posts that it will create a 1 cm impact crater in a steel rail. I think this highly unlikely. Ukraine railroads are designed to haul heavy loads such as iron ore and coal. They will use > 100 lb rail which has a total height (flange, web and head) of around 8 inches. The head alone is 2 – 3 inches thick and hammer annealed by repeated passage of weighted trains. The weapon is intended to fire fragments radially not project downward. I cannot see any damage to railroad rail or track. Paveway IV suggest a 1 cm depression in rail head. On a poorly maintained railway you can see a 1 cm gap at rail joins. Such gap does nothing to stop the trains; it may result in slowed transit of the damaged area but will not interdict rail traffic.
Cheers!

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:30 utc | 445

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 10 2022 3:13 utc | 359
Agreed that EU will see social unrest, revolt etc before willing acceptance of US colonial status and dependency on high priced US energy. Spending a winter freezing in you flat will do that to you.
Upcoming vote in France should give ome indication of the degree to which the MSM falsehoods are having impact. At some point the endless repetition of the same tropes has a negative effect on public opinion.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:39 utc | 446

WTF!!!
Clown World.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said:
It is a privilege to be able to travel to Ukraine and meet President Zelenskyy in person in Kyiv today.
Ukraine has defied the odds and pushed back Russian forces from the gates of Kyiv, achieving the greatest feat of arms of the 21st century.
It is because of President Zelenskyy’s resolute leadership and the invincible heroism and courage of the Ukrainian people that Putin’s monstrous aims are being thwarted.
I made clear today that the United Kingdom stands unwaveringly with them in this ongoing fight, and we are in it for the long run.
We are stepping up our own military and economic support and convening a global alliance to bring this tragedy to an end, and ensure Ukraine survives and thrives as a free and sovereign nation.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-pledges-uks-unwavering-support-to-ukraine-on-visit-to-kyiv-9-april-2022

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 13:40 utc | 447

Kim 459
Whoops,
Don’t know what happened to first post.
Sorry,double posted.

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 13:45 utc | 448

@ anon2020 | Apr 10 2022 13:16 utc | 448
“Hard to imagine anyone thought it would even get to the quayside, let alone pick up passengers and then escape. ”
Not so hard to imagine when you realise that drug-crazed Ukro-Nazis are deluded by Groupthink typical of hard-right racists and truly believe their own propaganda.
(e.g. Winning, Invulnerable, Russians and other races/cultures are sub-humans to be exterminated or enslaved etc.)
It is literally going to get them killed.
Unfortunately many EU politicians have allowed NATO propaganda/bribes/threats to blind themselves to reality (either deliberately or through stupidity) , which will have dire consequences for themselves ( death, war, impoverishment ?) or more likely the people they nominally represent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink#Case_studies

Posted by: Iain | Apr 10 2022 13:50 utc | 449

Posted by: librul | Apr 10 2022 3:59 utc | 364
QUOTE:
He [Castro] had SRBM in Cuba together with their nuclear warheads (the warheads were not mated to the missiles).
Nope. Not fooled.
END QUOTE

The prize was an offer to give Cuba more than 100 tactical nuclear weapons that had been shipped to Cuba along with the long-range missiles, but which crucially had passed completely under the radar of US intelligence.

SOURCE:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121013025211/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19930260
The more you read the less fooled you will be.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:55 utc | 450

Excellent, b.. Excellent. Great research, clearly explained.

Posted by: yesxorno | Apr 10 2022 13:58 utc | 451

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:30 utc | 457
Agree,
Definitely anti-personal munition.
20 clusters each with 800 fragments,16,000 in total.
Radial blast,but fragments at all directional heights when detonated.Ball like blast.
Check out the Dometes blast for the Damage caused by these fragments recorded on the scene by Patrick Lancaster,he even shows the body of the missile.
https://youtu.be/8F6rjuSYtPk

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 14:06 utc | 452

Ukraine is sick in the head!
THae latest obscenity is removing the statue of Alexander Pushkin, the father of Russian poetry!
Barofsky, [10/04/2022 15:10]
[Forwarded from Осташко! Важное]
[ Video ]
В Ужгороде демонтировали памятник Пушкину
За демонтаж бюста проголосовали 26 из 30 депутатов горсовета. Депутаты также решили переименовать многие улицы и скверы Ужгорода, названные в честь российских деятелей культуры, политики и искусств. В рамках «борьбы со всем русским».
Ранее то же самое сделали (https://t.me/ostashkonews/6666) в украинских городах Мукачево и Тернополь. А в Днепре сегодня памятник Пушкину пометили (https://t.me/ostashkonews/6800) буквами Z.
Barofsky, [10/04/2022 15:10]
[In reply to Barofsky]
[Forwarded from Ostashko! Important]
[ Video ]
The monument to Pushkin was dismantled in Uzhgorod
26 out of 30 city councillors voted in favor of dismantling the bust. The deputies also decided to rename many streets and squares in Uzhgorod named after Russian cultural, political and artistic figures. As part of the “fight against everything Russian”.
Earlier the same thing was done (https://t.me/ostashkonews/6666) in the Ukrainian cities of Mukachevo and Ternopil. And in Dnieper today, a monument to Pushkin was marked (https://t.me/ostashkonews/6800) with the letters Z.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:15 utc | 453

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:55 utc | 462
“ALEKSANDER ALEKSEEV: Fidel, do you mean to say [to Khrushchev] that we should be the first to strike a nuclear blow against the enemy?
FIDEL CASTRO: Under certain circumstances, we should forestall them without waiting for the first nuclear blow from their side. If they attack Cuba, we should wipe them off the face of the earth.
—Conversation between Cuban leader Fidel Castro and Soviet Ambassador to Cuba, Aleksander Alekseev, in a bunker beneath the Soviet embassy, Havana, Cuba, sometime between 2:00 AM and 7:00 AM, October 27, 1962.
The truth can be really powerful stuff. You’re not expecting it.
—Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country (2005)”

Here, in one paragraph, is our variant of the truth about what made the Cuban missile crisis the most dangerous crisis in recorded history:
The crisis did not come out of the blue and last thirteen days. U.S. blindness toward Cuba only made it seem that way. The crisis began eighteen months earlier, after the failed April 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion, with the Cubans’ fears of an imminent full-scale U.S. invasion. They asked the Russians for defensive weapons. The Russians began providing them, and the superpower-sleepwalk toward Armageddon began. The U.S. was not a victim of the deployment; its threats to Cuba were an important cause of it. U.S. intelligence assessments were atrocious: they did not predict the deployment; they did not even confirm it until the missiles in Cuba were almost ready to fire; and their conclusion that warheads for the weapons probably never reached Cuba was dead wrong. In all, 162 nuclear warheads were shipped, delivered, stored and made ready to fire by Soviet technicians in Cuba. While JFK courageously and ingeniously resisted the many hawks in his administration urging him toward war, Kennedy had no plan when the missiles were discovered and was shocked at the deployment. Nobody won. Nobody lost. Nobody “blinked.” Once Kennedy and Khrushchev realized they were losing control of the crisis, they worked feverishly, collaboratively and effectively to terminate it. But Moscow’s and Washington’s dismissal of the Cuban perspective, leading to Cuban outrage and provocative behavior, sent the crisis to within a hair’s breadth of nuclear war. Far from being a “bit player,” Cuba became the hinge of the world. Believing they were irrevocably doomed by an imminent U.S. nuclear attack on the island, Fidel Castro wrote to Khrushchev urging him to launch an all-out nuclear attack on the U.S. ASAP, once the Americans began invading the island. The Cubans, and their Russian comrades in Cuba, prepared to nuke the U.S. Guantanamo Bay naval base, and to use their short-range nuclear weapons against the invading U.S. forces. Had these been carried out, a U.S. nuclear response would likely have followed, and Armageddon would have commenced then and there.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/cuba/2018-01-11/dark-beyond-darkness-cuban-missile-crisis-book
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-10-30/nuclear-weapons-turkey-1959

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 14:17 utc | 454

We didn’t have Trotskyists. If they were present, the FBI would arrest them!!!
Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 13:07 utc | 451
Of course, Tom, you are absolutely right. Perhaps the expression “neocon” would be more accurate, but a hundred years ago there were no neocons. 🙂
In my Soviet childhood, thank God, there were no such fears that you describe. But there were irrationally many films about the war, in which the Germans were mostly presented as unprincipled murderers of the elderly, women and children.
Anti-American propaganda was also extensive, but it did not dehumanize ordinary Americans, but was against “American warmongers.” And, of course, the hidden propaganda of the Western way of life grew little by little. Gradually, the people were preparing for the collapse of the USSR. The readiness with which this policy was carried out by the authorities of the late USSR under Brezhnev, Andropov and Gorbachev also clearly indicates a strong external influence on the processes within the USSR.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 14:17 utc | 455

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:30 utc | 457
Sorry Sushi I posted the wrong link for Patrick Lancaster and the Donesk blast.
https://youtu.be/ANNhDKGjNK8

Posted by: Kim | Apr 10 2022 14:27 utc | 456

Thanks, DocHollywood, for the article. Will be interesting to see if it emerges as a standard analysis.
https://www.sott.net/article/466340-Is-it-possible-to-actually-know-what-has-been-and-is-going-on-in-Ukraine
The bit about Biden’s warning of an invasion even as NATO was preparing one recalls the proven US Tonkin Gulf provocation.

Posted by: dadooronron | Apr 10 2022 14:28 utc | 457

@Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 13:55 utc | 462
From your link:
Our investigations took us to St Petersburg and the Soviet Submariners Veterans’ Society via the National Security Archive in Washington DC, where Svetlana Savranskaya, the director of the Russian archives, told us an incredible story.
That is clear as mud, don’t you think? Why be murky?
Svetlana Savranskaya is the director of the Russian archives at the National Security Archive in Washington DC.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/person/svetlana-savranskaya
She is also associated with the Wilson Center – “Member, History and Public Policy Program Advisory Board”
And you know who they are. Read their stuff.
Think Atlantic Council, RAND, Brookings.
“Svetlana Savranskaya, the director of the Russian archives, told us an incredible story”
That isn’t much to go on.

Posted by: librul | Apr 10 2022 14:30 utc | 458

Of course, Tom, you are absolutely right. Perhaps the expression “neocon” would be more accurate, but a hundred years ago there were no neocons. 🙂
Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 14:17 utc | 467
But the goals and methods stayed the same. They are playing from more or less the same playbook.
For me personally, the biggest shocker was when I first learned that Trotsky (Bronstein) was in the US in 1917. He wasn’t there very long (Huuuumm ???), January and March 1917. Then when returning to Russia through Halifax, Canada, where he was stopped, he received a “Get Out of Jail” card (US passport) from President Wilson. It was one of many signals that let me realize that I had been fed a lot of bull$hit called “history”.
https://archive.org/details/ken-ackerman-trotsky-in-new-york-1917-audio
A comment from a book reviewer,
“…..Clearly, the facts uncovered here show Trotsky to be a complicated man. At once highly principled (and foolhardy in standing up for some of these) and yet also a staggering hypocrite. For example, for all of his rage at the unearned comforts of the elites, when he came to New York his first stay was at the Astor Hotel, reputedly the most over the top elegant in the Western Hemisphere. His rich benefactors drove he and his wife around in a limo. He rented fine furniture for his Bronx apt., and when he left abruptly stuck a poor neighbor with the bill. While Lenin comes off as the true monster, Trotsky did have a pattern of angrily denouncing or betraying former friends and allies.
….”
https://tinyurl.com/y8p8yz9k

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 14:36 utc | 459

Another piece of sick, Ukrainian Fascism, which unfortunately can’t be displayed, but it’s a short video (56 secs) of a Ukrainian woman in ‘traditional’ dress wielding a sickle and holding a man, presumably Russian, by his hair and with a dramatic sweep, as she recites the text below and cuts off his head.
And now we are harvesting our bloody harvest (slits his throat with the sickle)
You will all be killed in memory of victims in Bucha
Irpin,
Kyiv,
Kharkiv,
Odessa,
Maruipol,
You will all be killed
Your corpses, like the worst carrions
Will rot in the fields, along roads and forest belts
They will be eaten by dogs and wild animals
Your mothers
will be waiting for you in Tver, Pskov, and Ryazan
but you, you sons of the bitch
will never return home
Welcome to hell (as she drops corpse of the dead man)
https://t.me/c/1262772134/9929

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:42 utc | 460

Another piece of sick, Ukrainian Fascism, which unfortunately can’t be displayed, but it’s a short video (56 secs) of a Ukrainian woman in ‘traditional’ dress wielding a sickle and holding a man, presumably Russian, by his hair and with a dramatic sweep, as she recites the text below and cuts off his head.
And now we are harvesting our bloody harvest (slits his throat with the sickle)
You will all be killed in memory of victims in Bucha
Irpin,
Kyiv,
Kharkiv,
Odessa,
Maruipol,
You will all be killed
Your corpses, like the worst carrions
Will rot in the fields, along roads and forest belts
They will be eaten by dogs and wild animals
Your mothers
will be waiting for you in Tver, Pskov, and Ryazan
but you, you sons of the bitch
will never return home
Welcome to hell (as she drops corpse of the dead man)
https://t.me/c/1262772134/9929
I post stuff here and appears not appear, so if this turns up twice, it’s not my fault.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:44 utc | 461

I’ve posted it twice and twice it hasn’t published, so no more!

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:44 utc | 462

I see both have finally appeared! Thank you software

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:51 utc | 463

Posted by: Kadath | Apr 10 2022 4:50 utc | 377
You have my respect for being brave/foolhardy enough to engage in political forecasting over a thirty year period.
Despite that, I believe you erred by failing to address the present multi-ethnic, multi-national, characteristic of modern Europe.
I suspect the first social unrest will occur as a cleavage between long term EU citizens and new arrivals. This will lead to an examination of the question “Why do we host so many migrants?”
The answer will be found in a failure to recognize the interdependent nature of security. A further review will identify US led aggressions and regime change operations as a primary source of instability in the world.
No CIA compliant, compromat backed, politician will have any chance of electoral success. I agree with you that the Green movement will be rendered ineffective. Only a scheiß kopf will vote Green.
I also agree with respect to the imposition of rationing. This will have the effect of creating a thriving and lucrative black market economy to which the state will close a blind eye as any clamp down would trigger further social arrest.
It is likely the immigrant community will be active in black markets as they are most likely to have foreign contacts, and knowledge of the clandestine routes into Europe.
Public demand for black market goods, the fact these are dominated by immigrant groups (think Vito Corleone and Italians in early US), the fact the growing underground economy reduces state revenue, that the reduced revenues will force a choice between guns and butter, that the social safety net will end, that the immigrants will be blamed, and the Americans cursed for their military hardware sales and their high energy prices while the rest of the world benefits from low cost RF energy and low cost Asian consumer products which only the EU immigrant gangsters can now afford, all these factors will spur conflict. These are intractable problems not easily addressed.
There is a strong possibility that the entirety of the EU will move toward Volodymyr Zelenskyism, a combination of Wolfsangel wokism and cancel culture. Regardless if you own anything or not, You Will Be Happy.
The Age of Enlightenment is dead. Unfortunately for Fukuyama, history will arise from its grave, the conflicts will rage, and the bodies pile up until we are smothered by the dead.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 14:56 utc | 464

Another problem with this article is that Tochka-u has an inseparable warhead, so it would be quite difficult for it to remove it before the impact.

Posted by: Logol | Apr 10 2022 15:06 utc | 465

Posted by: Kadath | Apr 10 2022 4:50 utc | 377
You have my respect for being brave/foolhardy enough to engage in political forecasting over a thirty year period.

Indeed, except that (s)he is much too optimistic.

Posted by: malenkov | Apr 10 2022 15:07 utc | 466

Posted by: S | Apr 10 2022 6:01 utc | 385
I believe the height of 2.25 km is in error or typo in the original source document.
At that height a crosswindof any strength would displace the sub-munitions downwind a considerable distance. The intact missile retains internal guidance until the dispersal of the sub-muniitons. The sub-munitions have no form of active guidance and would drift uncorrected on the prevaiing wind.
I am coming to the view that missile trajectory may be irrelvant and that it is increasingly likely the entirety oft he scen was staged with dead victims imported from elsewhere and cars set on fire etc.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 15:07 utc | 467

“…We didn’t have Trotskyists. If they were present, the FBI would arrest them!!!..” Tom_12@451
All this nonsense about Trotsky is the worst kind of sectarianism, exactly like the CIA and MI6 inspired squabbling that has been such an important reason why every burgeoning socialist movement in the west, for a century has ended up in the creation of multiple, impotent little mini sects, most headed by greedy charlatans, which spend all their energies fighting each other.
The worst thing that genuine partisans of a new society in which fraternity and equality prevail can do is to engage in or encourage these poisonous intra-socialist disputes.
The truth is that the United States had a long, important and (see above) constantly fissiparious Trorskyist tradition, from which the neo-cons did indeed emerge.
Most of the criticisms of Trotskyism made in this thread are at least partially true, so it should be realised are the criticisms that the Trotskyists make of Stalinists. But the constant repetition of these caricatured and often totally false libels benefit none but the ruling class. Which is one reason why those tending towards fascism should be wary of making them.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 10 2022 15:17 utc | 468

@Posted by: Maria | Apr 10 2022 12:42 utc | 449
Here is your set….
https://twitter.com/IrinaMar10/status/1513126959672401925?cxt=HHwWioC5tf682v8pAAAA
Btw, Zelensky´s wife has been also reached by Ann Wintour´s team to make a fashion report from inside the very basements of Bucha and Kiev…
Only in places where idle people pass the time, like the Spanish parliament, where they have been caught on camera playing online games while supoosedly working hard to get the country forward, they swallow that these couple are in the Ukraine under Russian SMO and that “Elensky” wears those fatigue t-shirts because he is nearer of the front than am I…

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 15:30 utc | 469

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 10 2022 11:24 utc | 439
I should have clarified that the “box” reference was not a reference to the site of the train station attack but to the reference materials introduced by Tom-12.
These materials referred to the image I posted which depicts an example of the displacement between the aimpoint and the circle of dispersion of the cluster munitions.

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 15:52 utc | 470

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 15:30 utc | 481
Aparently, Zelensky is a cousin, or a relative of George Soros?

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 16:09 utc | 471

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 15:52 utc | 482
Also, I read that the missile has an ‘accuracy’ of around 150 meters, let alone what happens after it arrives.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 16:11 utc | 472

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 15:30 utc | 481
There’s a great compilation video of Zelensky sporting his cocaine nose, lots of sniffing, nose rubbing and nose twitching, all sure signs of a coke head.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 16:13 utc | 473

Posted by: bevin | Apr 10 2022 15:17 utc | 480
Yes, virtually ALL the current crop of neocons were Trots in the 1930s and ended up at the Chicago school. I used to joke the Trotskyists were so far to the left that they ended up on the right.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 16:15 utc | 474

Btw, those talking here about Stalin, even under the most historical and neutral focus, must know that talking Stalin is since ( yesterday???) a crime think persecuted by Interpol in Europe.
Past day a young guy owning a kinda Stalinist blog has been detained on charge of this crime think.
We do not know his whereabouts, as we do not know those of Spanish Russian jounalist Pablo González, dissapeared some around past month in Warsaw afer being detained by Polish authorities
Meanwhile, you can freely do all these things in free Europe…
Kick the ass of a young Russian mother pushing a baby cart in Fuegirola because in passing she was speaking Russian…
https://twitter.com/politblogme/status/1512675385082851330
Buy this kind of Ukrainian good in the net under the yealous watching of Interpol…
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP4tnHtXsAQTHjd?format=jpg&name=medium
Flood your city with Myrtovorets style paskines with the photographs and personal private data of Russian citizens living there calling for their beating in Naples…
https://twitter.com/paolomossetti/status/1512783790829101062
And even sing “all the Russian will be dead” in the very front of the Reichstag, in central Berlin, covered with an Ukrainian flag, only yes, still at the tune of Bella Ciao, the old partisan anti-fascist song, just in case the Germans are not brainwashed and idiotized enough through the pandemic to hate whomever the media and politicians signal at every moment, all that without Ven der Leyen suffering the slightest emotional shock as that she had in her recent visit to Bucha…
https://t.me/NewResistance/7058

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 16:15 utc | 475

It was one of many signals that let me know that I was being fed a lot of the bullish hit called history.
Tom_12 | Apr 10 2022 14:36 utc | 471
Tom, well said. Signals, intuition, a feeling that something is wrong, then follows your own analysis of the facts and the construction of a consistent picture of history. Only this allows us to eventually get through the impenetrable jungle of randomly piled facts, to streamline them. When, on the one hand, Trotsky is presented to us as an ardent fighter for the people’s happiness, and on the other hand, we meet evidence of his moral uncleanliness in everyday life.
Unfortunately, the ability to distinguish lies from truth does not belong to innate human properties. We can only develop this skill in ourselves during our lives. And few people succeed, which allows conscious manipulators to use humanity for their own selfish purposes.
As for the comparison of Trotsky and Lenin, they were driven by different motives for their activities. For Trotsky, this was personal glory. For Lenin, revenge on tsarism for his elder brother, who was executed in 1887 for preparing an assassination attempt on Emperor Alexander 3.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 16:18 utc | 476

“Aparently, Zelensky is a cousin, or a relative of George Soros?”
@Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 16:09 utc | 483
No idea, but, really, who amongst those who hokld any oficial and media position right now in Europe, from the lowest to the higuest, is not either a cousin, a relative, or, simply, a salaried stooge of Soros?
We have been coup d´etated long ago….

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 16:20 utc | 477

Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 16:15 utc | 486
“…If you go to the left, you will come to the right…”
I.V. Stalin, from the political report of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks to the 16th Congress, 1930

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 16:25 utc | 478

Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:51 utc | 475
regarding making posts – sometimes you have to wait – hit the refresh or reload button and try again.. often times the posts go thru, but they don’t show unless you hit the refresh button a couple of times… thanks for your posts..

Posted by: james | Apr 10 2022 16:27 utc | 479

Forgot to add this ISIS like verbatim propaganda, which curiously bypass all the harsh censorship exerted on us all Western citizens by the US IT corporations, now even under the new direction board of Elon Musk, and also the yealous sight of Interpol…curiously…
https://t.me/NewResistance/7061

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 16:30 utc | 480

Posted by: Ltexpat | Apr 10 2022 11:57 utc | 442
Thanks for your analysis. It delivers circumstantial evidence which supports my prior analysis in post 348.
At Google location 48.41261926891042, 36.00614423773966 (I use Google location data as given by Google rather than conventional lat and long) will be found what appears to be an earth en berm with an impact crater contained within it. This location is 73 miles from the station point of impact and found by following your imputed missile trajectory.
If you follow the roadway exiting the berm to the NW you will arrive at Google location 48.43373296987953, 35.97270183581753 and find a facility ringed with a berm and double fencing, evidence of a likely military installation.
There is a rectangular building with scrap iron of some kind to the east and a white rectangle to the south which I interpret to be the cracked pavement of a STOL runway.
At 48.422456467650576, 35.99501230011058 there exist an array of what appear to be firing butts facing what maybe a range extending to the SE.
There is another double fenced installation at 48.458891744940615, 35.9361436005211. Adjacent to it immediately to the east there exists another double fenced facility which contains what I interpret to be weapons storage bunkers.
At 48.43567188934054, 35.943478454363856 there is an unfenced facility which appears to include barracks buildings. This is connected by roadway to the firing butts and the two fenced installations to the NNW.
My estimated firing position was located at 48.26905826099834, 36.15746495502013. This is connected by the road net to the above installations and offers a road aligned in the direction of the train station impact site. According the the materials provide by Tom_12 the launcher must be oriented within 15 degrees of the intended trajectory. The existing road net would permit shoot and scoot with a return to the likely base area located to the NNW. This firing location would ensure any RF retaliatory strike hit the village of Hryshai not the likely base location located to the NNW.
My knowledge of explosive materials is that they have a fixed shelf life and become unstable or inert with the passage of time. Given the circumstantial evidence supporting a missile strike it is possible there was such a strike but the sub-munitions rained down and the majority failed to explode. The failed munitions were removed from the scene and dead bodies imported from elsewhere.
Cheers!

Posted by: Sushi | Apr 10 2022 16:50 utc | 481

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 10 2022 5:22 utc | 381
Vivid analogy, psychohistorian, thanks! Even viewing the eruption on tv,
the sight of a sideways explosion of the mountain like that was truly horrific.
And to karlof1, Sushi and others, I reverse my previous supposition – your conclusion
seems warranted.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 10 2022 17:21 utc | 482

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 22:00 utc | 272
Not at the end of postings, so sorry if this has been answered before. Check-out “youtube-dl”, which is a downloader for several video portals. It is for Linux and Win.
On Android, search for NewTube, most likely you will not find it on play, check out f-droid.com
And while we are trying to give Mr. Google a harder time, replace links like “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo” the host name that it reads “https://yewtu.be/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo”

Posted by: TomD | Apr 10 2022 17:26 utc | 483

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 10 2022 16:25 utc | 490
Not quite the same thing is it? And I think JS had a different target in mind.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 17:36 utc | 484

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 16:30 utc | 492
See my post on the latest Google outrage:
https://investigatingimperialism.wordpress.com/2022/04/07/google-censorship-now-your-private-email-is-under-threat-2/

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 17:38 utc | 485

PavewayIV – thanks for supplying what certainly sounds like usable info. The weapon does not perform anything like I imagined, at least in the “cargo” cluster bomb version. I’m glad I decided to ask more questions when the topic already seemed to be wrung out. Not that I am into the war-porn of modern weaponry. It is sadly impressive how inventive we are at shredding ourselves to pieces.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Apr 10 2022 17:54 utc | 486

Related to similarities with ISIS style, attention to the guy who appears in this video bragging about the butchery to which some Russian POWs were submitted and which leads the Ukrainian POW watching it to thank God for having fallen on normal people hands…The slav dude he is not….
https://twitter.com/D_ArraZ/status/1512710656197332993?cxt=HHwWgsC46feUnf4pAAAA
Where is this abnormal people from, and under whose payement are they in the Ukraine slaughtering Russians and pro-Russian Ukrainians?
It does not requiere an streight of imagination to believe that all the masacres are ebing perpetrated by the same “kind”v of people in Ukraine, the same as happened in Syria, Lybia, Iraq´s Abu Ghraib, Afghanistan, and all those dark holes they hold around the globe, and so on….
Btw, what would be what is being spiritcooked in the 8th floor underground Azovstal that requires such hsyterics and harsh censorship of Russian media in Europe, with an electoral proccess ongoing in France?

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 17:55 utc | 487

b: Just wanted to thank you for this excellent analysis. Your posts just keep getting better and better and better!

Posted by: JMF | Apr 10 2022 17:57 utc | 488

More evidence…that you are not in the right side of history when you support in the Ukraine the same people who uses to behave like this for the past 7 decades….
https://twitter.com/KevorkAlmassian/status/1512840918352674826

Posted by: Givi | Apr 10 2022 18:05 utc | 489

@Sushi #479:

I believe the height of 2.25 km is in error or typo in the original source document.

It doesn’t appear to be an error. See this exhaustive article on Tochkas: http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-191.html

At that height a crosswindof any strength would displace the sub-munitions downwind a considerable distance. The intact missile retains internal guidance until the dispersal of the sub-muniitons. The sub-munitions have no form of active guidance and would drift uncorrected on the prevaiing wind.

Yes, that’s why I assumed (without checking) that the submunitions must be deploying relatively close to the ground, but no, they aren’t. Maybe the effect of the wind is not that large, given that the submunitions are moving at great speed towards the ground. The pieces of cloth at the top of the submunitions are not parachutes, just ribbons to make sure that the contact fuses keep pointing downwards.

Posted by: S | Apr 10 2022 18:13 utc | 490

S | Apr 10 2022 18:13 utc | 502
From available info, the tochka runs at around mach 5. In the transition zone from supersonic to hypersonic. based on what Paveway said and wikipedia it transitions into a vertical or near vertical dive depending on the warhead no matter if it is in ballistic or cruise mode.
I would guess the missile would at least be in the high supersonic range when it deploys the sub munitions in the dive and as you say, not a lot of drift due to wind.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 10 2022 18:27 utc | 491

Sushi@457 – The railway track damage example was just to show how energetic the fragments were generally in this type of munition – it’s function is well beyond anti-personnel but not to the degree of a full anti-armor submunition. I didn’t mean to suggest it was used by anyone to disable the railway or tracks, it’s just that the fragmentation damage would have been extensive and obvious. I would think so if the Tochka’s target was 200m away from the station. Even a few submunitions exploding on the then crowded entry side should have caused much more damage. I was surprised to see no reports of damage in the immediate area that should have been caused by all the other submunitions. Draw a 300m ring around the train station and you can see how much of the rest of the town should have been damaged.
That said, I highly doubt the Ukrainian side would intentionally target the train station even though it’s obvious they fired the missile. This is a heavily-contested electronic warfare environment. Russians are undoubtedly jamming the GPS that mobile Tochka launchers depend on for aiming. The missiles themselves don’t use GPS while in flight, but the geographic location of the launch site and target must be precise. Untrained operators or scrambled GPS is enough to make precise aiming all but impossible. Expired, malfunctioning motors could also cause the missile to fall short or have its guidance actuators disabled. Tochkas don’t age well – that’s why the Russians got rid of them rather than refurbish. The anti-personnel version is imprecise (despite the specs), unreliable and have a much wider area of destruction than is usually practical in a modern battlefield. These were made to use against km-wide massed formations of U.S./NATO forces attacking the USSR in areas like the wide-open plains of central and eastern Ukraine.
I’m not excusing the Ukrainian side’s willingness to butcher a few civilians to further their cause. I just don’t think that’s what happened *in this case*, and I may be 100% wrong.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Apr 10 2022 18:33 utc | 492

thanks paveway… i appreciate your balanced viewpoint and knowledge and interest in the technical details..

Posted by: james | Apr 10 2022 19:28 utc | 493

According to Intel Slava Z, there has been an enormous explosion near Nikalaev. And judging by the photographs, an enormous explosion occurred, but there is no more information as yet.
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡️Something serious has arrived in Nikolaev. Ukrainian sources confirm the arrival, but do not specify where.
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡️More Nikolaev.
Something very serious exploded.
🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡️According to an eyewitness, there has never been such a powerful explosion.
https://t.me/intelslava/24933

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 20:31 utc | 494

I’ve posted it twice and twice it hasn’t published, so no more!
Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 10 2022 14:44 utc | 474

Refresh the page first.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 20:31 utc | 495

Tochka’s booster continues behind the explosion, this video proves it:
https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1512613047025770496
Posted by: Logol | Apr 10 2022 8:58 utc | 409

This video proves nothing. Except that the ship was hit several times and one booster landed inside the port, that is before the ship.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 20:44 utc | 496

Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 21:59 utc | 512
That’s not really your name, is it? That name doesn’t make a lot of sense. First name might be Norwegian, but the last name is very rare.
“Sinee nebo” is “Синее небо” rendered from Cyrillic into Latin characters.
Either way it means “Blue sky” in English.

Posted by: Ranelagh | Apr 10 2022 23:01 utc | 497

What is the PCR? You mean the KPRF?
Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 21:35 utc | 510

Yes, sorry, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation.

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 10 2022 23:57 utc | 498

The Ukrainian Army itself is doing a lot of evil stuff.
Posted by: Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 21:47 utc | 511

Of course. But you know the penalty if someone does not follow the orders. Especially when the nazis are commanding. The first soldiers which tried to reach Donetsk were killed from their back. Why do you think the county lost more than 10 millions inhabitants during the last 30 years?

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 11 2022 0:07 utc | 499

Robert Lindsay | Apr 10 2022 21:59 utc | 512
Ranelagh is absolutely right. Sometimes it’s hard to come up with a unique name for a mailbox. I’m from Russia. I read your messages about the Trotskyists with interest. The Western slang term you use, trots, has enriched my vocabulary. In my country, the role of Trots in the revolutions of Russia and Germany at the beginning of the last century was central. The Bund, the Jewish workers’ party, was the founder of the Russian RSDLP in 1898, the radical part of which later became Lenin’s Bolshevik Party. The role of the Jewish working class and the petty bourgeois class in the German revolutions was similar. Trotsky at one time began in the RSDLP as a petty-bourgeois part of it (the Russian name is “Menshevik” in contrast to Lenin’s “Bolsheviks”). During the revolution in Russia in 1917, he went over to the Bolsheviks. Perhaps I am stating facts that you already know. Trots, like neocons today, in my opinion, is a destructive tool for Jewish financial capital, which forms the basis of supranational globalists. So it was a century ago. So it is today. It is clear that the interests of the working class have never been in their first place. As well as the interests of Americans or Europeans for neocons today.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 11 2022 1:10 utc | 500