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April 9, 2022
More Evidence That Ukraine Fired The Missile Which Killed Dozens In Kramatorsk

This is a follow on to yesterday's Ukrainian Tochka-U missile strike on the Kramatorsk railway station. Russia no longer has Tochka missiles (search for Tochka in the pdf) while the Ukraine, Belarus and several other states still use them.

There is now additional evidence that the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces. The facts do not matter in 'western' media who stick to whatever story they are told to produce. Still, I do believe that facts matter at least in the long term and that there is a historic value in documenting them.

The Tochka-U is a tactical missile with a maximum range of some 120 kilometer. It is typically fired from a transporter, erector, launcher vehicle (TEL) with little need of preparations.

The TEL vehicle for the Tochka is a six wheeled BAZ 5921 /5922. These are amphibious floating hull chassis. The picture below shows a BAZ TEL in parade mode with a Tochka missile slightly erected.  In the normal transport mode the missile lies horizontally under a protective roof.


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There were several claims of such vehicles being seen in Belarus or with Russian forces in Ukraine. But not every six wheeled BAZ vehicle can be said to be a Tochka missile TEL or Tochka transporter. There are various look alike variants of the vehicle with radar or communication equipment or simply used as transporters or ferries for all kind of goods.


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The Tochka missile, below in a firing position, consists of a rocket engine, four fins and grids to direct its course, a solid fuel compartment and a warhead at its front. A complete missile weighs about 2,000 kilogram.


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There are various warhead types available which weigh about 500 kilogram each.

The warhead which was used in Kramatorsk is a fragmentation one with 20 sub-munitions (gray) each with some 7.5 kilogram of explosives enclosed in a metal hull.


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Over the target area these sub-munitions get expelled and explode while still in the air and each one creates some 800 fragments. The warhead thus leaves no hole in the ground but expels a huge number of deadly metal fragments at high speed over a relative large area. The Tochka missiles are not very precise. They have a circular error probability (CEP) of some 150 meters. They are so called area weapons to be used against concentrations of infantry or unarmored vehicles.

After being fired the rocket engine propels the warhead towards is destination. Shortly before the impact the warhead separates from the booster section and continues its path while the rocket engine shuts down. Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.

Which brings us to the scene in Kramatorsk. Several pictures from the scene show the booster section of the missile.


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The place where it landed was geo-located as being near a parking space some 60 meter west-southwest of the railway station. Here is the Google maps view of the railway station area. The warhead explosions happened on the east side of the station over the departure platform.

The location of the booster debris and where the explosion happened allows one to point out the trajectory from where the missile was fired. I have checked the locations depicted below and found them to be correct.

North is to the top. The station is encircled and the point is where the booster section landed. The arrow shows the trajectory the missile must have taken.


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Oh, the map is annotated in Russian and you don't trust Russian sources? Well, here is the New York Times posting a similar map.


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Here is map from Liveuamap depicting the current front lines in Ukraine. Kramatorsk is marked in yellow.


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Note that there are no Russian or Russia-aligned forces west-southwest of Kramatorsk within the 120 km maximum range of a Tochka missile. The missile must have been fired by Ukrainian forces.

Unsurprisingly the Russian military has come to the same conclusion:

An analysis of the engagement radius of the warhead, as well as the characteristic position of Tochka-U missile's tail section, clearly confirm that it was launched from a south-western direction away from Kramatorsk.

According to intelligence reports, one of the divisions of the 19th Missile Brigade armed with Tochka-U missile systems at the time of the strike on Kramatorsk was located near Dobropol'e in Donetsk Region, 45 km south-west of Kramatorsk.

This area is still under the full control of the Ukrainian military grouping troops in Donbass.

The publicly available evidence shows that the Ukrainian military must have fired the missile that killed some 50 Ukrainian civilians in Kramatorsk.

The only purpose of the attack I can think of was to create propaganda that, when distributed as 'Russian attack' through 'western' media, will create more military support for Ukraine.

Everyone who urges to give more arms to the Ukraine or who eggs it on to continue this war is guilty of creating impetus for more incidents like the one seen in Kramatorsk.

Posted by b on April 9, 2022 at 10:23 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Posted by: Abe | Apr 9 2022 18:51 utc | 189
Response was probably code word trasmitted to azov scum via open frequency, not to Russian navy. They were either $$$ stimulated or manned by azov sympathizers to try to rescue nazis from azovstal.
Drugs can make you do crazy things – or they might be like John Marston in Red Dead Redemtion

Posted by: Anne B | Apr 9 2022 19:14 utc | 201

Paul Craig Roberts thinks it’s already too late, that Russia has played Mr Nice Guy too long, such that the world is now irredemiably committed to an apocalyptic glide path. The escalator we’re on only goes up.

I have emphasized for years that these provocations of Russia will eventually cross a red line and result in nuclear war. I have long been critical of the Kremlin for not having stopped these provocations by putting down a strong foot. Russia had that opportunity in Ukraine, but the Kremlin chose a course that failed to make the necessary impression that countries that accommodate US aggression against Russia will experience devastation. It is less risky to make this demonstration in a non-NATO country than in a NATO one. Additionally, the Kremlin waited far too long before intervening in Ukraine, thereby giving the US 8 years to arm and train Ukrainian forces. By pussy-footing around in Ukraine, Russia will again be confronted with the same problem in Finland or elsewhere in addition to the two existing bases in two NATO members on Russia’s border. There is no doubt whatsoever that US/NATO have set a path that leads straight to nuclear war.

https://www.unz.com/proberts/nuclear-war-is-on-the-horizon/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 9 2022 19:23 utc | 202

Posted by: dididi | Apr 9 2022 18:03 utc | 169
That video is very short, you can find fuller video here: https://vitalidrobishev.livejournal.com/8135335.html
You can also enjoy 3-wheel motorcycles taking part in the parade. And i can remind you about T-34 tanks that some people saw in Moscow V-day parade.
Frankly, military parades are always to a large desgree entertainment show, which is biased towards showing obsolete weapons: they had become iconic so easier to use for PR purpose, and there is no risky some canning spy would learn secrets by carefuly observing.
There is a story how Khruschev impressed NATO with how many mobile nuclear ballistic missiles USSR has. In reality that year USSR did not had a single one yet, only some incomplete prototypes – and “mass-shape imitators”: dummies produced for vehicle plants to start building transporters. So, few prototype transporters were loaded with those dummies and paraded beforre NATO guests to erve as deterrence. Good enough? Well, after those “rockets” were slowly driven before those guests – they were rushed fullspeed through back streats and then they were re-appended to the “rocket column” tail. Rumours said each dummy was driven 3-4 times before the invited NATO officials. Parades…

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 19:24 utc | 203

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 9 2022 16:02 utc | 122
major oversight–the 2 biggest war criminals still walking around are named Bush and Cheney.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 9 2022 19:31 utc | 204

@Vollhonk, #2:

The only thing the Russians in my opinion can do is stick to their plan and follow it through without: hesitation.
The propaganda war cannot be won.

Don’t be so pessimistic :-). Russia HAS been sticking to its plan, but meanwhile collecting evidences of western propaganda doesn’t hurt nothing anyway.
Effects of western propaganda warfare are only short lived. Couple years after 911, the suspicion on ‘inside job’ meme was making rounds among the rational sects even within the United States, and the number in that sect never stopped growing since. Powell’s detergent gambit, Obama’s white helmet script, Navalny comedy, etc. etc. all just won eyeballs and chitchats for only a week or so and got trashed permanently. You don’t hear western MSM singing these tunes no more. So what have they won? Trump propagandized ‘China Flu’ big time, now the finger is pointed at Uncle Sam’s own way, causing Nuland to shit in her pants.
The lesson to learn: Propaganda serves only fleetingly; truth comes out, sooner or later. You take care of yourself and live another 10 years, you’ll see history throwing eggs all over propagandists’ faces.
Cheers!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 9 2022 19:31 utc | 205

Thomas’s assertion that the missile came from the northeast makes no sense when you look at the furrow the tail of the rocket has made in the grass – it was moving from the southwest. Not a massive amount of forward motion, but the missile is designed to orient close to perpendicular to the ground at the end of its flight. What forward motion remains explains the furrow. Note the grass would reveal if the tail had bounced or rotated in any way.
It would be highly unlikely for the tail to be moving ‘back’ northeast if it came from that direction.

Posted by: E | Apr 9 2022 19:33 utc | 206

In response to dididi@169,
Video seems accurate, corresponds to still images of the event posted on korvesti.ru and analogous full-length video. However, do take note of the lack of an actual rocket in parade position in the video, despite being on parade. Presence of the same BAZ carrier confirmed on Open Doors event in, I believe, 2020. This time, with a rocket in parade position.
It appears that this is the brigade that used to, at least, train with such a system. The brigade itself was recently reformed in 2020, so the presence of obsolete systems and hand-me-downs makes sense. Reportedly, 47’th placed an urgent order for a replacement rocket system in Aug 2021 and received an Iskander Jan 2022.

Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 9 2022 19:33 utc | 207

US/Western DNS servers are now blocking any access to Russian sources.
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12416625@egNews
Try clicking on that link if you’re in the US or UK (or even Mexico). It won’t load. I had to utilize a Slovenian proxy service to access it from here in Texas.

Posted by: Tom | Apr 9 2022 19:33 utc | 208

About another incident in Ukraine – from the Russian MoD today:

The Kiev regime has not abandoned its attempts to evacuate the leaders of Azov nationalist regiment and foreign mercenaries from Mariupol. Previous actions to evacuate them by helicopter have failed.
On the evening of April 8, the Kiev regime made another unsuccessful attempt to evacuate the Ukrainian Nazi leaders by sea.
(…)
At 22:38 Moscow time, 30 km southeast of Mariupol, a dry-cargo ship suddenly changed its course and attempted to break through to the Mariupol seaport blocked from the sea by the Black Sea Fleet.
(…)
While heading towards Mariupol port, the vessel was engaged in radio communication, transmitting the messages “I am ‘Maniac’, coming for you”. At the same time, signal fires were observed on the shore.
(…)
A direct hit caused a fire in the stern of the ship.
The Ukrainian dry cargo ship then went adrift, the crew got in touch with the border ships with a request to cease fire and confirmed their readiness to comply with all the demands of the Russian sailors.

Also about recent developments in Mariupol, Gilbert Doctorow’s article today is worth reading. https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2022/04/09/read-all-about-it-final-days-of-the-battle-for-mariupol/

Posted by: Brendan | Apr 9 2022 19:46 utc | 209

@Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 19:24 utc | 200

There is a story how Khruschev impressed NATO with how many mobile nuclear ballistic missiles USSR has. In reality that year USSR did not had a single one yet, only some incomplete prototypes – and “mass-shape imitators”: dummies produced for vehicle plants to start building transporters.

It probably backfired on Khrushchev. The MIC likely used it as publicity to sell the need for more weaponry.
The US Joint Chiefs of Staff knew the nuclear ballistic missiles was an empty threat. They had an extremely
well placed spy, Soviet Colonel Oleg Penkovsky.
Particularly dangerous was the fact that Oleg Penkovsky claimed the Soviets *would* have real nuclear ballistic missiles within three years.
This created a window of time that the US Joint Chiefs of Staff didn’t want to see close. They wanted WWIII
with Russia before the opportunity passed. However, President Kennedy didn’t want to go down in history as the greatest mass murderer
in history.
Nine days after Kennedy’s assassination, Jacqueline Kennedy wrote to Khrushchev. The subject was
*not* blowing up the world and how JFK and Khrushchev were allies in this cause.
As you probably know, there was a faction that wanted to immediately use the assassination as an excuse
to attack Cuba and then quickly escalate this into WWIII.

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 19:51 utc | 210

I am inclined to believe that Ukraine did this.
However, I am a bit puzzled by the claim that Russia replaced the Tochka-U with the Iskander and thus doesn’t have it anymore. Slovakia still has its old tanks. Why should Russia get rid of the Tochka-U instead of keeping them in stock? The Iskander may be more accurate but there are circumstances where such accuracy is not needed.

Posted by: Wim | Apr 9 2022 19:55 utc | 211

Posted by: Woogs | Apr 9 2022 18:19 utc | 179
Thanks for the hint.
The comparable number seems to be (partially only) at 11:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNhDKGjNK8
9M79-1  ….900574

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 19:59 utc | 212

Thank you, b. I disagree with the first posts which announce that ‘the propaganda war cannot be won.’ I don’t mind how many times you post on this outrageous event, especially as the facts are so very clear. This is not a piece of propaganda; this is fact. And facts shall win out in the end.
Many in the previous post were commenting that this was a faked operation. Such posts were a distraction from the main focus you have presented here, so again thank you, b.
I will simply ask: how is it that the New York Times, presenting the map as shown, can still claim (if it does) that the missile was launched by Russian troops?

Posted by: juliania | Apr 9 2022 20:01 utc | 213

@ Likklemore 122
The ICC is investigating war crimes in UK – could Putin be indicted?
No. Russia (and also United States, Israel and China) aren’t part of the ICC.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 9 2022 20:05 utc | 214

Commenter “thomas” appears to be a socialist and anti-fascist, yet focuses their criticism on Russia. This is curious, as both Russia and Ukraine are oligarchic capitalist regimes and there are neo-Nazis in both countries. A logically consistent socialist and anti-fascist would oppose both regimes and take no side in the ongoing conflict between them.
Furthermore, opposing the Russian side in the conflict on the basis of Russia invading another sovereign nation would logically preclude “thomas” from supporting any sort of revolutionary socialism whatsoever, as that would also entail interfering with sovereign nations. It may well be that “thomas” is not a revolutionary socialist, but supports the establishment of socialism only through electoral and other non-revolutionary means. However, that remains to be conclusively determined.
The physics seem clear that the rocket-motor section of the Tochka-U missile landed short of the warhead, i.e. that the missile was fired from a WSW-erly direction. Being less dense than the warhead after expending its fuel, the rocket-motor section would be more subject to drag forces. The contention that the missile must have been fired from an ENE-erly direction, because the building would have otherwise shielded the victims from the warhead’s shrapnel, is refuted by the high angle of descent on the warhead’s final approach to the target, as cited in other comments.

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:08 utc | 215

In response to Wim@208,
I believe the claim from officials has always been that they don’t have it in active service, meaning that they simply don’t use it. I don’t doubt that they’ve got warehouses full of, at the very least, launch platforms. Missiles may be a different matter, they still have a best before date and need to be serviced to be kept reliable, so it’s a gamble in many ways to use them. Bit of a risk to your own troops to use them even in training, but one can use dud missiles and train operational maneuvers.
In any case, I think it’s a misunderstanding, perhaps due to language. Removed from active service does not necessarily imply removed from existence. Russian MOD says they don’t use Tochkas just as a matter of fact, but it’s not evidence of anything. If the Russians wanted to, they could roll out hardware out of museums or off monument pedestals, and these systems could still be described as decommissioned.

Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 9 2022 20:10 utc | 216

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 19:51 utc | 207
Kennedy’s main concern was getting reelected, that’s why he went even further than Biden in taking the world to the brink of nuclear war (Biden so far has kept it at the proxy war level, not a direct confrontation), and it is why a condition of the agreement between the USSR and the US was not revealing that the US had withdrawn the missiles from Turkey that provoked the whole crisis in the first place. some people still believe Obama was well intentioned too, just as some believe Biden is now. it’s all horseshit. Camelot 2.0 was a fairy tale, just like the original, and the real JFK was a combination of John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Obama and George Bush, with more than a touch of Reagan.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 9 2022 20:13 utc | 217

@mk #176
Apparently Imran Khan has now been ousted as PM of Pakistan, per Sputnik News.

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:18 utc | 218

Like others I still don’t believe it either. I realize I can be wrong but haven’t seen anything to indicate that I am.

“…a fragmentation one with 20 sub-munitions (gray) each with some 7.5 kilogram of explosives…”

Just for a comparison some hand grenades typically have something on the order of 50 or 75 grams of explosive.
It’s not clear to me at what height these submunitions explode but as an absolute minimum it will be higher than two meters above ground (likely a good bit more). They will likely be downwards-directed which could spare glass in some directions and circumstances but not cars and their windshields and so on.
The rain of steel from each of the twenty submunitions will be fairly dense and relatively uniform without huge gaps; remember that these kinds of weapons are for use against troop concentrations and aims to kill and injure enough people in their target area that they’re all put out of action.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 9 2022 20:23 utc | 219

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:18 utc | 215
I hope this gets a lot of play, the details of the arm twisting the US is now engaged in to prop up it’s regime change efforts in Russia and eventually China. My speculation is this is going to get a lot of pushback from the Belt and Road countries.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 9 2022 20:25 utc | 220

Amazing that Americans still behave like obedient farm animals, still believing what they’re told by their “media”, lie after lie after lie, the “media” still controls their minds.

Posted by: Deplorable David Par | Apr 9 2022 20:27 utc | 221

@Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 19:51 utc | 207
A further note on the Soviet who spied for us, Colonel Oleg Penkovsky.
He was arrested on the seventh day of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Khrushchev, the Soviets, were falling into a trap during the Crisis.
The US Joint Chiefs of Staff **wanted** the red line crossed. Kennedy
had issued a “quarantine” of Cuba, Soviet ships carrying possible
weapons were not to approach Cuba.
War was imminent as Soviet ships bound for Cuba approached the red line.
Khrushchev was bluffing, he had no ICBM, but he didn’t know that we
knew his bluff was empty. I suspect that Kennedy let Khrushchev know
we knew and Kennedy gave up the spy Colonel Oleg Penkovsky to the Soviets.
Colonel Oleg Penkovsky was arrested on the seventh day of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Besides giving the US detailed technical specifications on Soviet missiles,
Penkovsky shared key vulnerabilities of Soviet defenses. Did the Joint Chiefs of Staff
intend to use that leaked information during a first strike? Was it too much for the
Joint Chiefs of Staff to resist using? They had wanted WWIII.
Besides giving up Penkovsky did Kennedy make WWIII less desirable, less thinkable,
by giving Khrushchev enough information to close those key vulnerabilities?
This was a game of Super Hardball, and there were no stakes higher.
How far was Kennedy willing to go to save the world from WWIII?

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 20:28 utc | 222

no the question is how far the old cold warrior JFK was willing to go to advance his political career. the answer was to risk nuclear war in a needless confrontation. the simple solution, the USSR objected to the placement of missiles in Turkey, so you negotiate with them so you don’t get to the brink in the first place. it was as simple as NATO not expanding eastward. JFK got into office running to the right of Nixon on foreign policy, which is no surprise because his brother Bobby, before his apparent later conversion to becoming antiwar around the mid 60’s, worked for the cold war propaganda complex, his father Joe was a corrupt hater of all things soviet, and his good friend Joe McCarthy was an ardent supporter of smearing US critics of domestic policy as commies.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 9 2022 20:34 utc | 223

@pretzelattack #217
Watch for the US and its close allies to continue/increase pressure on India and also attempt to make inroads in Central and SE Asia. On the last part, remember that the US abandoned Vietnam essentially because Nixon went to China. However, now that China has become too uppity in the eyes of the US, SE Asia is strategically important again.

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:36 utc | 224

Arch Bungle #102
You can also add Canada’s Minister of Foreign affairs Chrystia Freenland, whose grandfather was a nazi collaborator during WW2.
https://republicdossier.com/chrystia-freelands-nazi-grandfather-a-role-model/#:~:text=Michael%20Chomiak%2C%20maternal%20grandfather%20of%20Canadian%20Foreign%20Minister,Army%20attacked%20the%20Soviet%20Union%20and%20invaded%20Ukraine.
“Michael Chomiak, maternal grandfather of Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, volunteered to serve in the German invasion of Poland long before the German Army attacked the Soviet Union and invaded Ukraine.
“Chomiak’s records show he was trained in Vienna for German espionage and propaganda operations, then promoted to run the German press machine for the Galician region of Ukraine and Poland during the 4-year occupation. So high-ranking and active in the Nazi cause was Chomiak that the Polish intelligence services were actively hunting for Chomiak until the 1980s – without knowing he had fled for safety to an Alberta farm in Canada.

Posted by: krypton | Apr 9 2022 20:36 utc | 225

Arch Bungle @187–
Thanks for your reply. The ship is Ukrainian owned but running under Maltese flag, which is why it was released by the Russian Navy along with other civilian vessels bottled-up in the Azov Sea. The signal fires ashore make it clear that it was part of a planned evacuation, although where it might have gone to once it loaded its human cargo is an interesting question. I doubt if it would try to make for the Med. The Romanian coast is closest, but IMO such an attempt like the helo evacs is highly improbable of success given Black Sea Fleet assets to halt it. The op does expose one weakness in the siege–the shoreline’s open for escape by small boat–and I mean small as in dingy or rubber raft. The level of desperation to evac is quite clear and another attempt will certainly be made. Whatever asset(s) have tickets, given the lack of success and results, perhaps those higher in the chain-of-command would rather they be captured dead rather than be taken alive.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 9 2022 20:37 utc | 226

Boris Johnson, now visiting Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is a “secret pianist” here. How convenient for Johnson, he can learn a new piano technique because Zelenskyy can play the piano with his phallus! here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 9 2022 20:43 utc | 227

@librul #219
The “hotheads” (as Khrushchev called them in his confidential correspondence with Kennedy) knew that there was a window of opportunity at which the US would have the largest advantage over the Soviet Union – roughly between the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis and Kennedy’s assassination slightly over a year later. Khrushchev appealed to Kennedy’s humanitarian side. They worked out a deal where the Soviets would remove missiles from Cuba and NATO would remove missiles from Italy and Turkey. Each side could then claim victory, and life would go on.

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:43 utc | 228

Posted by: Tom | Apr 9 2022 19:33 utc | 205
Mil.ru seems to have different servers hosted at different providers, which makes sense redundancy-wise.
Then their DNS servers return different IP addresses to western and eastern name requests.
It was funny to discover it month ago, when GitHub coordinated DDoS attack started

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 20:43 utc | 229

@Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 9 2022 20:13 utc | 214
I am not a Kennedy worshiper. He was a power player and greatly flawed.
I thank Heaven for Kennedy, though. And LBJ, as well.
If a “nice guy” had been in the White House during that era
I think we would all be dead now.
It is like the Angels put just the right chess pieces in just the right places
to defuse WWIII – two stinkers, JFK and LBJ.
If a “nice guy” had been in the White House during this dangerous era
I believe we would all be dead right now.

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 20:46 utc | 230

If the ship had succeeded in loading its passengers, how could it have gone through the Straits of Kerch?

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 9 2022 20:47 utc | 231

Linked by: DocHollywood | Apr 9 2022 17:43 utc | 162
Part of the content authored by Jacques Baud —
“. . .on February 24, Facebook changed its policy and allowed posts favorable to the militia. In the same spirit, in March, the platform authorized, in the former Eastern countries, calls for the murder of Russian soldiers and leaders.
Do you think that the author really meant to reference “former Eastern countries?”

Posted by: AntiSpin | Apr 9 2022 20:49 utc | 232

Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:18 utc | 215
Yes, it looks like the globalists managed to break the weak link in the chain. We can expect soon provocations against India and attempts to destabilize Afghanistan.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 9 2022 20:49 utc | 233

I just read until #54 so far, will study the further later, but have to express my impression. This forum knows what it is. Trying to build a shelter , while rain almost start to get radioactive. It reminds me of Camus , in a totally unfree world, just the expression of independence become a act of revolution. this bar is habitation, readable for the whole world. Lets stay sane!
This Thomas guy , new to the bar and very loud, appears to me like a man on a mission. Of course, a lot of visitors here spend a great time of their screentime over here. But he is right on time. Bar opens, he is in first line to get a drink and scream some very loud insults to everybody already around. Today was interesting because he catches the valuable contribution of krypton. #5 thanks for the article and asked for clarification for the only weak leg of reporting by host. In the end he got what he was asking for. Because Thomas jumped on this. Even used #5 as proof of concept for the two minutes of daily hate. Only after he presented his prepared material of hidden nazi connections of Putler.
His whole appearance to me is shady. Like somebody getting payed for it doing that. This avatar is created with a purpose.

Posted by: rico rose | Apr 9 2022 20:53 utc | 234

LBJ came very close to getting all of us blown up in 1967, when the sinking of the Liberty was going to be blamed on Egypt, to be followed by the nuking of Cairo. The planes with the nukes were already launched and on the way to Cairo when the mission had to be aborted because the Liberty refused to sink.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 9 2022 20:53 utc | 235

Cynica (215).
Khan named the US official who warned the Pakistani envoy to the US, Asad Majeed, that there would be “implications” if Khan survived the no-trust vote in the National Assembly, the lower house of the parliament.
Khan named Donald Lu, the top American official dealing with South Asia in the US State Department, as the person involved in the ‘foreign conspiracy’ to topple his government.
Pakistan is waiting on a $6 billion dollar loan from the IMF, the US blocked it, maybe that’s why the vote of no confidence passed. PM Khan wouldn’t allow US bases on Pakistani soil, nor would he toe the line when it came to Russia.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 9 2022 20:54 utc | 236

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 9 2022 20:23 utc | 216
The picture in my comment, probably being some okd soviet brochure scanned, says cluster sub-munitions are equipped with simple (small and cheap) “контактный взрыватель” – on-impact detonator.

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 20:57 utc | 237

After reading all the commentary regarding the missile’s flight direction I have to agree with Opport Knocks #100 that although its possible the missile came from the east, the evidence on the ground makes that highly improbable. Another thing that struck me is why is there no cell video clips of the aftermath taken by people in the vicinity. With At least 39 people were killed and 87 wounded there would have to have been rivers of blood running in the street with people screaming and writhing in agony. You know like the ones we’ve all seen after a bomb goes off or a suicide bomber blows himself up in a crowded area. There’s something obviously not right with the scene at the train station. It shows a completely different scenario from the one filmed by Patrick Lancaster about a week ago after a Uktainian Tochka missile struck an urban area.

Posted by: krypton | Apr 9 2022 20:57 utc | 238

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 20:28 utc | 219
From what I have read/heard it was Kennedy who was played at first. The Russians were bluffing with their ships because they already had 80 missiles in Cuba. To the extent that we believe some if not all of the story line of 13 days, some of this was passed on to Robert Kennedy, sufficient anyway for JFK to pull back. It is probable that the Kennedy Bros did not reveal this to many, since Robert McNamara, chef war hawk did not apparently know of this until many years later- according to his own account.
This has probably now disappeared down the memory hole but I read/heard that it was finding out the truth that switched McNamara from hawk to dove. Perhaps someone who has a clear reference could confirm this hearsay. I will do a search to see if I can find a report.

Posted by: watcher | Apr 9 2022 20:58 utc | 239

@Republicofscotland #233
The question now is whether Khan will leave the country. If he does not wish to be silent about what happened, his best bet might actually be to flee to India.

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 21:01 utc | 240

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 20:18 utc | 215
Perhaps there will soon be a military government in Pakistan again following popular unrest at Khan’s removal. Something to keep tabs on. How homogeneous is the Pakistani military? Wonder if Khan has any support there. The general theme for them seems to be that US military aid should keep flowing.

Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 9 2022 21:01 utc | 241

Well it’s quite clear now, indusputable in fact that the Tochka U missile was fired by the Ukrainians, the serial number of the missile is one of a series possessed by the Ukrainians!
🇷🇺🇺🇦 The rocket that hit Kramatorsk yesterday is not just Ukrainian.
The first photo shows the serial number of one of the Tochka-U missiles that flew yesterday to Kramatorsk and was shot down. The one on which it was written “For the children.”
On the second is the serial number of Tochka-U, which hit the settlement on February 2, 2015. Alchevsk (LNR).
The serial numbers are not just identical, they differ by one digit: 9M79-1 Sh91565 and 9M79-1 Sh91579.
This is yet another irrefutable proof that it was Ukraine that struck Kramatorsk yesterday.

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 9 2022 21:02 utc | 242

Likklemore | Apr 9 2022 17:57 utc | 168
the voices from the greek parliament do not seem to be condemning the Nazis in Ukraine at all, only the fact that such have been outed so publicly. what’s greek for ‘scratch a liberal…’?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 9 2022 21:03 utc | 243

The RT article on Khan’s loss is much better–“176 lawmakers out of 342 voting against him.” Shehbaz Sharif is the opposition’s candidate, but it’s unclear if he’s been found innocent of money laundering charges detailed here:

On 28 September 2020, Shehbaz was arrested by the National Accountability Bureau on charges of laundering over Rs7,328 million in a systematic scheme involving close associates and family members.[65][66] The Bureau had previously frozen 23 different properties belonging to Sharif, his son, and other family members, claiming that these assets were acquired beyond known sources of income. The NAB alleges that the Shehbaz Sharif family used fake transactions to receive foreign funds, with the transactions being made through a company owned by Sharif’s son-in-law, Haroon Yousaf.[67][68]
On 14 April 2021, he was released on bail in a money laundering reference by Lahore High court.[69]
Shehbaz remained incarcerated pending trial. He was temporarily released on parole to attend his mother’s funeral prayers in November 2020.

Additional media reports I read via search confirm to me his family is very dirty, the very sort of politico the CIA loves to control. Khan by comparison is squeaky clean. Online sources are terrible at informing when the next parliamentary elections will be held.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 9 2022 21:04 utc | 244

Read that a cargo ship called the Apache under a Maltese flag tried to force its way into the Mariupol port yesterday to rescue Azov commanders, French, Swedish and American advisors and mercenaries. The cargo ship would no comply with Russian forces commands and was fired upon, only then did it comply with Russian commands.
“After the inspection, the Ukrainian dry cargo ship Apache with the crew is being escorted to the port of Yeysk,” the spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry added.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 9 2022 21:06 utc | 245

“…I suspect a great many of the persons we refer to as being brainwashed are simply equally busy. Their attention is focused elsewhere… ”
Very good comment, Sushi @ 76. Downrating the public doesn’t wash with me either. I only have had time to analyze stuff (even as poorly as I do) since retirement – many folk only have energy to prepare for the next day’s labor, and the last two years have piled on the stress of doing that.
Sorry, I could not post timeline here as the system shunted me to the last page, so I couldn’t go back to ‘click and save’ a second time as I could when writing my post appeared on the same page as the post I was addressing. (I did try but then lost the first part of my post.) Sushi’s original is on the first page.

Posted by: juliania | Apr 9 2022 21:06 utc | 246

Cynica (237).
Yes that might be the safest course of action for him to leave Pakistan.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 9 2022 21:08 utc | 247

Posted by: Tom | Apr 9 2022 19:33 utc | 205
Not true Tom,
Russian MoD prs are available on Telegram Channels
https://t.me/mod_russia_en
And Intel Slava Z
https://t.me/intelslava
And there’s also War Gonzo
https://t.me/wargonzo
And,
https://t.me/RKadyrov_95 the Chechen contingent

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 9 2022 21:09 utc | 248

@Posted by: Lysias | Apr 9 2022 20:53 utc | 232
Yes LBJ was a “stinker”, as I said. But he was in just the right place
at the right time to defuse WWIII after the Kennedy assassination.
LBJ was an insider to the assassination.
The assassination was supposed to be blamed on Cuba
and thus trigger war against Cuba and then quickly escalate
to include Russia.
LBJ double-crossed the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and didn’t give
them the war against Cuba that they had wanted.
He was riding high as President, why would he want to rule over a
world recovering from WWIII.
As an insider he had the goods on the US Joint Chiefs of Staff
and they on him. Stalemate.
LBJ pushed, with the help of RFK, the “lone gunman theory” – The Warren Commission.
LBJ prevented WWIII.

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 21:12 utc | 249

Krypton @ 222:
I am sure that in the Wikipedia entry for Krakivski Visti, the academic John-Paul Himka is mentioned as having researched the newspaper’s history and finding that Mihaylo Chomiak (incidentally, Himka’s father-in-law) had supported Nazi policies against Jewish people.
Himka did his research in the 1990s and his wife’s niece – the then journalist Chrystia Freeland – assisted with the research, the editing and proof-reading the article on Krakivski Visti that Himka published in 1996. This would seem to be good evidence that for a long time, even before she entered politics, that Freeland has always known about her grandfather’s past and has lied about his collaboration with the Nazis and the details of his fleeing to Bavaria and then to Canada.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 9 2022 21:13 utc | 250

@the pessimist #238
Popular unrest leading to a state of emergency is probably the ideal scenario for the US leadership. Khan should be making preparations to flee the country for India or even China as soon as possible. Even if he intends to be silent following his ouster, the new government could very well accuse him of inciting riots and place him under house arrest (or worse).

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 21:14 utc | 251

Zakharova on Borell’s latest gaff from RT:

The European Union has devolved to the level of “NATO’s economic relations department,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova claimed on Saturday.
Following his visit to Ukraine, the EU’s foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, tweeted: “This war must be won on the battlefield.” The militant remarks coming from a diplomat prompted a reaction from Moscow.
“So much for ‘economic organization.’ This is no longer the European Union. It’s just NATO’s economic relations department,” Zakharova wrote.

Almost correct seeing how NATO’s actually run by the Outlaw US Empire which renders the EU even more debased than Zakharova describes. It’s a colony having no independence whatsoever.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 9 2022 21:15 utc | 252

Fascinating reflection.
https://alphahistory.com/coldwar/robert-mcnamara-reflects-cuban-missile-crisis-2003/

Posted by: watcher | Apr 9 2022 21:16 utc | 253

LBJ may have prevented WWW3 in 1963, but he did all he could to bring it about in 1967. He was only prevented by the heroism of the crew of the Liberty, plus the serendipitous appearance on the scene of a Soviet warship.
He was indeed a stinker.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 9 2022 21:21 utc | 254

For me, the most amazing sight is the number of Red Flags sporting the Hammer and Sickle held by people cheering a column of Russian armour as it past by!
https://t.me/intelslava/24843

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 9 2022 21:21 utc | 255

@librul #246
It seems quite likely that elements in the US government intended to frame Cuba (as a Soviet ally) or even the Soviet Union itself for the assassination of JFK, which would be a clear casus belli and let them knock out the Soviets once and for all. It’s less clear whether LBJ was in on the assassination, although there is the infamous picture of him possibly smiling at a man who’s winking at him, all while he’s standing next to a distraught Jackie Kennedy. Even so, he may well have not known about the conspiracy until afterwards, at which point he decided to thwart any and all efforts towards using the assassination as a cause for war.
Supporting evidence may come in LBJ’s efforts to secure a peace agreement between North and South Vietnam before he left office. Those efforts were sabotaged by the Nixon campaign, which was carrying on separate conversations with the South Vietnamese leadership.

Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 21:24 utc | 256

Not wasting my time arguing over the ballistics of rockets. For all we know, an explosion, if one occurred, could have been a car bomb or just a car blowing up on its own, with the rocket parts dumped later. As someone mentioned, the rocket part could have bounced a hundred feet away, then come to rest at its final location. Who knows? Amateur forensics is just that…amateur. If you’re not on scene, it’s worthless.
Posted by: jr | Apr 9 2022 14:14 utc | 78
Sorry, I meant Nevada.
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Apr 9 2022 16:28 utc | 133
I am aware of all that. And I was mistaken, it’s not Utah, it’s Nevada.
My point is that the only way to survive nuclear war is not to be in the country where it occurs (or any country near it from which the fallout will drift), and if you are, head for the one place which allegedly according to the fallout maps and target lists has no targets and the prevailing winds take the fallout elsewhere (assuming they’re “prevailing” at the time, of course.)
And no, nuclear war does not mean the end of the world. I don’t want to start the nuclear winter argument here again, so let’s just sail right past that before the thread gets hijacked any more than it is.
Posted by: dadooronron | Apr 9 2022 16:49 utc | 145
Aside from the OSCE reports of increased shelling, and one – repeat one – document from the Russian MoD, there is no evidence of a planned Ukrainian offensive. There’s lots of “connect the dots” evidence in the form of Zelenskyy returning from the Munich Security Conference and visiting the front after which the shelling increased. But there’s no proof. The MoD document has been badly translated, and no one seems to want to translate it properly, so we have to take the MoD’s word that it says an operation was planned for March,2022. The document as I’ve seen translated does not say that.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 9 2022 21:26 utc | 257

Arch Bungle #102
Posted by: krypton | Apr 9 2022 20:36 utc | 222
You might also inquery into parents and grand-parents of Michael Bociurkiw, the Canadian head of European (lol) impartial(allegedly) OSCE SMM mission.
Thet probably assigned him to be an arbiter, because he was from UPA-Melnik wing instead of UPA-Bandera one.
Those gangs had bloody arguments in 1930-s, but reocnsiled and reunited in 2000-s

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 21:27 utc | 258

Lysias @ 228:
That’s a good question. I am sure some of the crew on the Apache asked that too, and the answer they got was to get back to work.
The rescue attempt reeked of sheer desperation and was on par with the helicopter suicide missions, two of which as you know ended disastrously for the Ukrainians.
One presumes that had the Apache rescued the NATO cargo, someone on board might have remembered also to stock up enough weaponry and ammunition for a desperate fight to get past Russian coast guard vessels and reinforcements near the Crimea Bridge.(More likely though, to accommodate as many mercenaries as possible, the ship would have to throw out any other cargo, including guns.)

Posted by: Jen | Apr 9 2022 21:30 utc | 259

@ Don Bacon 211
Thanks for your reply re the ICC memberships. The question whether Putin can be indicted was the header of the article displayed in the video.
As we have seen the world institutions are now weaponized, it’s a rules-based order with international laws discarded. See the Russian Federation’s ouster from HRC as an example. The financial war has intensified….theft of funds. The G7 and lackies are hell bent on World War III
The agenda remains to defeat Russia. UK Cabinet is committed to war with Russia.
Sputnik News Feed
UK Will Deliver 120 Armoured Vehicles and Anti-Ship Missile Systems to Ukraine, Downing Street Said Following PM Johnson’s Meeting With Zelensky in Kiev.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Saturday promised Volodymyr Zelensky additional military assistance of 120 armored vehicles and an extra $500 billion in World Bank loans.

https://sputniknews.com/20220409/kiev-preparing-provocation-to-accuse-russia-of-mass-killing-of-civilians-in-ukraines-irpen—mod-1094610180.html
Hours ago an MEP called on EU’s Borrell to resign over his tweet.
Borrell Calls for Military Resolution of Ukrainian Conflict
Italy Opposes NATO Intervention in Ukraine – Di Maio

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Italy will not support a NATO intervention in Ukraine for fear it could tip the conflict into the third world war, Foreign Minister Luigi di Maio said on Saturday.
“We will oppose a military intervention by NATO in the war in Ukraine because this would lead to a military world war,” he was quoted as saying by TGCom24 on the sidelines of an event near Naples.

Posted by: Likklemore | Apr 9 2022 21:32 utc | 260

So, what’s the actual Truth here, “Biden signs bills on tightening trade regime with Russia, Belarus, banning energy import”:

US President Joe Biden signed bills, passed by the Congress earlier, on suspension of normal trade relations with Russia and Belarus, as well as on prohibition of energy import from Russia over the situation in Ukraine, the White House press office said Friday.
According to the press office, Biden signed both papers; previously, White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki announced his intent to do so.
Earlier in March, Biden already signed an order banning energy import from Russia. The bill, passed by the Congress effectively turns the presidential order into a law.

We know from EIA stats that Russian crude and diesel continued to be imported all though March despite the “earlier in March” order. EIA data shows both oil and finished products continued to be imported throughout March, so it appears companies are in violation or the law was never actually put into force as myself and others speculated. It appears the Empire of Lies Lies about much more than war.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 9 2022 21:33 utc | 261

While enjoying quiet cigarette breaks, and lovely afternoons of tea and crumpets with maple butter, I took a moment to view on official 10 Downing Street video of PM Johnson in Kyiv with Zelensky. … I found it worth viewing. (One minute long)
https://youtu.be/EcKkHIRNhnU

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Apr 9 2022 21:38 utc | 262

FYI:
[Forwarded from Readovka]
Zelenskyi banned removal of corpses from streets in Bucha to show them to Western ‘viewers’
This was stated by former Verkhovna Rada MP Ilya Kiva. He explained that the corpses were needed by the Ukrainian president as an illustration for Western politicians and journalists coming to the city to record Russia’s “war crimes”.
“Lyceite Zelensky mocks not only the living – he is ready to mock even the dead for the sake of his ‘performances’.The corpses brought and laid out in the street in Bucha are not allowed to be removed and buried as they receive a new batch of spectators, Western journalists and politicians, every day. Yesterday the corpses were shown to the head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen. “Props deteriorate and decompose quickly, and the cadaveric smell spoils the show. Therefore, we need fresh troupes and a new venue, such as Gostomel,” Kiva said.
Western officials have already started to doubt (https://t.me/readovkanews/30460) Zelenskyi’s “performance”. One of the heads of the European Union countries demanded proof from the Ukrainian president that the murders in Bucha were not staged.
Earlier, an expert confirmed (https://t.me/readovkanews/30419) Readovkha that the story of the Russian military “atrocities” in Bucha is staged, as there are no signs of decay on the bodies of the “murdered” and no traces of blood can be seen around the corpses filmed in the street.
Translated from the Russian
https://t.me/c/1262772134/9834

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 9 2022 21:38 utc | 263

Antioch @ 255:
Michael Bociurkiw’s father was Ottawa-based academic / historian Bohdan Rostyslav Bociurkiw. His main research interest was researching the persecution of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic community by Joseph Stalin’s government in the USSR. BRB died in the early 1990s.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 9 2022 21:39 utc | 264

The serial number of the Kramatorsk rocket is Ch91579 (with the compliment of some western journalists), that is of the same series as previous missiles which hit different Donbass settlements and of course launched by the ukronazis (Ch915xxx).

Posted by: Olivier | Apr 9 2022 21:41 utc | 265

Aargh, damn Spellcheck! It changed Arioch to Antioch in my comment @ 261.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 9 2022 21:42 utc | 266

Posted by: Jen | Apr 9 2022 21:30 utc | 256
Here’s the Russian view of the attempt by the ‘dry goods freighter’ to rescue the Fascists:
🇺🇦Kiev regime has not abandoned its attempts to evacuate the leaders of Azov nationalist regiment and foreign mercenaries from Mariupol
▫️Previous actions to evacuate them by helicopter have failed.
▫️On the evening of April 8, the Kiev regime made another unsuccessful attempt to evacuate the Ukrainian Nazi leaders by sea.
▫️The Ukrainian Apache, a Maltese-flagged dry-cargo ship assigned to the Maltese port of Valetta, was sailing in a caravan of ships from the Gulf of Taganrog to the Kerch Strait in the nighttime.
▫️At 22:38 Moscow time, 30 km southeast of Mariupol, the dry-cargo ship suddenly changed its course and attempted to break through to the Mariupol seaport blocked from the sea by the Black Sea Fleet.
▫️The Ukrainian dry-cargo ship did not respond to Russian border guards’ demands to contact them through the international channel and continued heading in the direction of Mariupol port.
▫️Warning artillery firing by two border patrol ships along the vessel’s course did not cause the dry cargo ship to change course or slow down.
▫️While heading towards Mariupol port, the ship was engaged in radio communication, transmitting the messages “I am ‘Maniac’, coming for you”. At the same time, signal fires were observed on the shore.
▫️To block the movement of the intruder vessel, from 22.53 to 23.30, the Black Sea Fleet and the border patrol ships opened artillery fire on the Apache dry-cargo ship.
▫️A direct hit caused a fire in the stern of the ship.
▫️The Ukrainian dry-cargo ship then went adrift, the crew got in touch with the border ships with a request to cease fire and confirmed their readiness to comply with all the demands of the Russian sailors.
▫️No crew members on the ship were injured as a result of the firing. The fire was extinguished by the ship’s crew themselves.
▫️After being inspected, the Ukrainian Apache and its crew are convoyed to the Yeysk port.
📑 Full text of (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/785)the (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/785) Russian Defence Ministry Briefing (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/785)
#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing #Mariupol
@mod_russia_en

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 9 2022 21:43 utc | 267

This is the latest communique from Kadyrov95, the Chechens:
The latest news from the area of the ongoing special operation against the Banderites.
Tangible damage has been inflicted on the Nazis in one of the districts. The operations are ongoing, so I will not specify the exact location of the action. There are nuances in any special operation. I will only say that every day the situation for the enemy is close to a disaster.
The enemy becomes satanic and fires indiscriminately from long-range guns. But our fighters are only enjoying the fact that the Bandera fighters are getting hot with anger. In response, the lads deliver a decisive blow and literally disperse the enemy.
All the select units of the Ukrainian Nazis are thrown into the area. The Russian commanders make special mention of the work of our snipers. They eliminated six leaders of the national band in one day. Aviation, including unmanned aerial vehicles, is also helping superbly.
Special praise must be given to the reconnaissance units. On Saturday, they revealed the location of about 60 bandits, who were eventually dealt a devastating blow. Afterwards our special forces were chasing them like cows goats. The result was predictable, and we predicted it. The larded heels of those 60 Nazis will no longer shine. They have all been sent to their deaths. Daniil Martynov, Sharip Delimkhanov and all the dear BROTHERS will back up these words with facts.
Also in the past 24 hours we have destroyed large quantities of equipment and artillery installations of the Bandera army. In one square alone the enemy lost about 10 tanks and 5 SAU. Great report for the day! Saturday was a success! There’s night ahead. It will bring the Banderites many more surprises…
https://t.me/RKadyrov_95/1842

Posted by: Barofsky | Apr 9 2022 21:50 utc | 268

one more TG channel, mostly with video translations
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/91
https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/87
also some pleasantries
https://t.me/barbie_at_war/1723
https://t.me/barbie_at_war/1728

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 21:53 utc | 269

And as it slowly dawns on the Western media that it was a Ukie T-U missile… the story is just quietly dropped. I must read Dante again to find out which circle of hell is occupied by Western journalists and what happens to them.
When I was in my naive early 20s I briefly dated a girl whom I discovered eventually was a pathological liar. I was suckered in to one or two of the lies, one of which sadly ruined a close friendship. It turned out she was quite pernicious and I only ended the relationship with difficulty and some blowback. All contact ceased and not a few mutual acquaintances were also lost. I’m reminded of her whenever I read the mainstream press about this conflict.

Posted by: Patroklos | Apr 9 2022 21:54 utc | 270

Re LBJ
If you have not already please read Robert Caro’s biography of LBJ. A masterwork of historiography, He misses a lot, avoids a lot, not perfect. Still the best we are likely to see and a great read.
Johnson was bipolar. Manic depressive in the jargon of his era. Not slightly, not arguably, he was a loon. We all got lucky. Caro shows how that personality worked very well in politics. Worked, but was dangerous.
Same can be said for many of our leaders. Bush Sr. was severely hyperthyroid with a thyroid temper. Probably more alcoholics than non-alcoholics. Many are gay, with all the complications that brings for someone living a public life. The more you know about these jokers the more amazing it is that we are still here.
Oh. Caro is three volumes. You won’t be able to put it down. Reserve some time.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 9 2022 21:55 utc | 271

2014, the turning point.
The Nazis claim that they get credit for the coup of 2014. But some say that they have no influence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
If you know how to download and save Youtube videos I urge you to save this one
before it disappears.
And if you can instruct me on how to save Youtube videos it would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 22:00 utc | 272

When your spin-doctor says to look ‘surprised’. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 9 2022 22:02 utc | 273

Pathetic, funny, cringing…
Boryslav Yukhymovych Blacher-Bereza – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boryslav_Bereza
By some rumours, a citizen of Israel, who flwd to Ukraine to avoid consctiption.
PR representtive of Right Sector. Pro-war patriot.
…was presented with amn actual conscription ticket.
“How did you find me? How did you find my family??? I’m calling police!!!”
Ukrainians love to chant their “heroes do not die” – and this Ukrainian hero example, i think, explains why…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_WiFMOiOc
https://www.yaplakal.com/forum1/topic2427772.html

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 22:03 utc | 274

After reading all the commentary regarding the missile’s flight direction I have to agree with Opport Knocks #100 that although its possible the missile came from the east, the evidence on the ground makes that highly improbable. Another thing that struck me is why is there no cell video clips of the aftermath taken by people in the vicinity.
Posted by: krypton | Apr 9 2022 20:57 utc | 235

Assuming this was not a 100% staged provocation (which must be considered considering the CIA’s likely involvement) and assuming the detonation of the missile was real (there could have been another planted explosive source for that), I am still leaning toward a missile launch from the east. There are Ukrainian troops and equipment in the cauldrons there.
As I understand it, with this type of missile, the warhead detaches shortly before impact and then explodes over the target which would dissipate its forward momentum. The rocket would then carry on in the original direction and could land 60-100m away. It could also have landed on the pavement and tumbled end over end onto the grass.
That said, this looks to be a 95% probable staged provocation. These older missiles are not known for their high precision. Hence I believe the “stage hands” placed another bomb with similar shrapnel on the platform to ensure the desired effect, as in Boston. The missile itself could have been disarmed or a dud.
The explosion and car fires would allow the stage hands to clean up the scene of any unwanted props.
As for the video of the chaos in the aftermath, I have only seen one so far…
https://t.me/bazabazon/11123
and it is inconclusive. Are they real or actors?

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 9 2022 22:05 utc | 275

I believe Caro is now up to four volumes. The fifth and final volume has been very long in appearing, and I suspect never will appear. In his last two volumes, and especially in the last, Caro definitely pulls his punches. For example, Caro never even mentions Billy Sol Estes. And he swallows the Warren Commission fairy tale hook, line, and sinker.
For LBJ’s later years, Philip Nelson’s two volumes are much more worth reading. He does not pull his punches.

Posted by: Lysias | Apr 9 2022 22:07 utc | 276

When your spin-doctor says to look ‘surprised’. .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 9 2022 22:02 utc | 269
Can’t help remembering one good comedy…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPYQN31lX2g

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 22:13 utc | 277

Didn’t read ALL of the comments, my time is limited, but some commentors got it right imo. Not familiar with how these weapons work other than what has been stated. What is the method of separation of the WH from the motor – small explosive charge, release of skirting material, what?
b stated: “Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.” Is “tumble to the ground” merely a figure of speech or an accurate description of the flight characteristic after separation? I’m inclined to believe it’s an accurate description, if you consider as some here have the contributors to drag, and additionally the opening in the motor hull left by the departed warhead. However, if that is an accurate description (tumbling, more or less randomly,) the final attitude of the spent motor found on the ground is of little help in determining the flight direction.
However there should be some ground indication (except for a perfectly indelible landing surface) of the direction of travel. “Skid marks” if you will, because even though its forward momentum might be mostly spent, unless it is falling from a very high altitude it will still have some forward – i.e. in the direction of travel – movement, not merely the component due to gravity pulling it downward.
And that brings me to a final question: it is stated this weapon has a max. range of about 120km, and also stated is the guess that it was fired from appprox. 45km away. Am I correct to assume that (for this weapon) the targeted range is selected by dialing in the burn time of the motor? Makes more sense than relying solely on the elevation of the trajectory above the horizon, though both would have to be set properly to attain even the accuracy ellipse stated above.
This weapon has been in use for quite a long time. What with development, testing, and deployment and use, surely there is a robust body of documentation to answer definitively whether the motor section always falls short of the munitions target, or whether the final disposition of the two relative to each other is a function of the distance between launch and target.
Finally, I agree with most here that this doesn’t pass the smell test. I totally agree that it is in the best interests of the Russian ground forces to see Azov’s human shields leave the combat theater, so they can get on with the work they came to do – kill the Nazis and decommission the rest of Ukraine’s military that isn’t Nazi.

Posted by: vinnieoh | Apr 9 2022 22:14 utc | 278

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 22:00 utc | 268
And if you can instruct me on how to save Youtube videos it would be greatly appreciated.
If you are using Linux, install youtube-dl from your usual repository.
Using Terminal as root type
apt install youtube-dl
Once it is installed type
youtube-dl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
I expect there are similar tools for Mac and Windows

Posted by: Ranelagh | Apr 9 2022 22:18 utc | 279

Western MSM, when they know a story cant be used to further the wanted narrative:
Day 1: Western MSM publish, citing Western politicians, without evidence that Russia hit the Kramatorsk railway station.
Day 2: Evidence come out via social media that its more likely that it was an Ukrainian missile attack. Smaller papers copy what bigger papers wrote the day before, because they dont have the ressources to write their own pieces. This reinforces the narrative. Bigger papers stop publishing any stories about Kramatorsk.
Day 3: There is nothing in Western MSM or from Western politicians about Kramatorsk anymore, its memory-holed, as if nothing ever happened.
Conclusion: Western journalists and politicians are the worst human beings, since there are good and bad victims for them, depending on what narrative they want to push. The only place they deserve is the eternal fire in hell.

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 9 2022 22:20 utc | 280

I really hope I’m not going to be struck by lightning for this. While writing a comment at the end of the previous thread, I came across an article on a Catholic Journal I haphazardly found for the topic of my comment addressing Tom_12 and Nebo Sinee’s discussion on the lost library of Ivan the Terrible. In that Journal an article caught the corner of my eye.
Naturally, it was unavoidable that I explore it, since it had to do with Zelensky extending an invitation to Pope Francis to visit Ukraine. The media asked the Pope whether he would accept the invitation, and he replied that it’s not off the table.
I want to expand on this comment, later, as I don’t have the time now. (Yikes! I’m proofing now and wondering if you will even want the elaboration, although I’m leaving some critical stuff out. Maybe I should leave it to your own critical thinking and share only this.)
The Pope cannot, should not, and I sincerely hope will not visit Ukraine any time in the near future. The optics and the message might appear transcendent, and result in a spectacular propaganda coup, but the play will appear jarring almost depraved in the sense of marrying the sacred with the profane to abort historical change in the making. There are several reasons for this objection that I can’t get into now, the least of which is, and it’s not that insignificant; that this is a clear manipulation on the part of Zelensky and it would be beneath the integrity, dignity and eminence of his office as Pope of the Church of Rome to allow himself to be used as a political pawn and be swept into a theater of deception and hegemonic, Empire machination.
I hope I can elaborate later on other reasons, but I’ll end for now with this relevant excerpt from a comment on the previous thread from yet another intriguing, excellent discussion I came across, but did not feel informed enough to contribute to. Especially note my emphasis.

I recall reading that Marx was critical of the role of the main religions in keeping the working class suppressed and asleep, but I am not aware of him saying there was no place for religion or spirituality. ”
I remember reading his answer to one question about socialism, that he refused to “write the cookbooks of the future”. I think he might very similarly say he’d refuse to write the spiritual inspirations or poetry of the future as well.
Native American author Vine Deloria once said, “Religion is for those who are afraid of Hell. Spirituality is for those who have been there and back.” Human history seems to me to be that path, from ancient classless humanity to future classless humanity.
Now to deal with this Hell business…
Posted by: Vintage Red | Apr 9 2022 7:14 utc | 393

You probably won’t recall that I wrote a comment at the start of the SMO, that destiny/fate is at play in all this. If the Universe or God or gods, whatever you believe in, has determined that it must rain like hell, then why would the Pope have the power to intervene?
I’d like to ask the Pope what he would rather do: Intervene to maybe end a war and suffering, or allow for evolutionary change, when he can’t have both?
Can you believe that God allowed 6 Million Jews and over 20 Million Russians to be killed in WWII?
If I’m not mistaken the Pope believes in just and unjust wars. Does he also believe that injustice is an integral part of Destiny/Fate and the evolution of mankind?
Some might call all this blasphemy. In my defense against a lightening rod from above, I’m going to end for now with this quote I treasure from George Bernard Shaw: All great truths begin as blasphemies.
Can’t I aspire with my own modest blasphemy?
Okay, bring on my punishment. That’s what I whispered to myself the day I stood in front of a class, shaking all over, and admitted that I felt compassion for the monster. After my presentation, the professor, I was surprised to read later, wrote this note on one of my papers: I really look forward to having you in another class. Regrettably, that never happened.
So before this goes into stream of consciousness territory, remember Melania’s raincoat advertising: I really don’t care. Do you? Well, I don’t go for advertising slogans, but even with Papal intervention looming, and in the milieu of the wrath of heaven and earth, my return would be so much riskier: I believe (Russia)…do you?
Ironically, we just might need a raincoat too, because the world is on fire, so…
Make it rain!

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2022 22:23 utc | 281

Posted in error on yesterday’s thread”
If Khan is going into exile, Afghanistan is the obvious place to go. Both India and China have political drawbacks but Afghanistan, provided it is safe, is an obvious place for Pashtun, being chased by imperialists to go.
The news from the UK gets worse. For some years the Tory government has been leading the anti-Putin, russophobic charge. They were behind the Skripal operation and the entire Novichok nonsense, they supplied the dossier that the Clintonites used in Russiagate and they have pushed munitions into Ukraine. Now it seems likely that the Mariupol NATO cadres could be largely British. There is a real possibility that the Azov Brigade is led almost entirely by foreigners, and that many of the rank in file are non-Ukrainians. If this is the case the question of whether NATO is actually involved in the war arises.
It could be that the secrets of Mariupol are embarrassing enough to make a quiet swap of prisoners the basis of a Ukrainian surrender.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 9 2022 22:25 utc | 282

@Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2022 21:24 utc | 253
It’s less clear whether LBJ was in on the assassination
There is no smoking gun, that I know of.
There is the finger print of his personal assassin Malcolm Wallace
found in the Texas Book Depository.
Beyond that (that I can think of at this moment)
there is logic.
The plan to assassinate Kennedy in order to precipitate war
had a limiting problem. They needed (or rather it was best conceived)
Kennedy’s replacement to be on board with war.
LBJ was not going to be on the next election ticket with Kennedy.
LBJ was going to be dropped by Kennedy. LBJ was corrupt and a murderer
and likely headed for a fall. LBJ was highly motivated to
protect his own future by taking out Kennedy.

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 22:25 utc | 283

Up next:
New possible false flag atrocity in Makariv.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10702271/Bodies-132-civilians-bullet-wounds-new-war-crime-site-Ukraine.html

Posted by: Bonami | Apr 9 2022 22:29 utc | 284

Just testing: blasphemy.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2022 22:34 utc | 285

I appear to have a hot word in my next post: Jews?

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2022 22:36 utc | 286

@Thomas
You’re wrong on all points,..pathetic really.!

Posted by: Hannibal | Apr 9 2022 22:36 utc | 287

Surprising optimism from Sitrep: Operation Z by Nightvision — Any actual confrontation between Russian & NATO armaments would inevitably expose the latter as vaunted vanity.

But with that said, here’s why I think a confrontation between Russia / NATO may be very unlikely. The simple reason is that, particularly in today’s global economic depression (which is really what it is if you look past the fudged figures), the U.S. economy is nearly kept afloat entirely by its MIC, which has emerged as probably the most significant remaining U.S. export and manufacturing potential – its military arms. The retain this final vestige of economic authority, the U.S. has to keep up the ‘mythos’ and image of invincibility of its arms and military products.
Given what you saw above in the report, it is an absolutely undeniable fact that at the minimum, in any Russia vs. Nato engagement, the opposing side would suffer some humiliating defeats to their vaunted systems like the F-35s, Patriots, U.S. Carrier Groups, advanced drones, missiles & PGMs, etc, etc. The scale of the shock and disruption this would create for the U.S. MIC is too heavy to bear. They would never risk their cashcows being ‘exposed’ on the world stage, and having all the mythical mystique stripped away.

https://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-7/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 9 2022 22:36 utc | 288

Russian MoD naming a place the missile was launched from makes me think they detected and tracked a missile – but everything about the site screams fake. No torn clothing, no torn baggage, no broken windows nor signs of fragment strikes anywhere. No injured, no ambulances while fire department in attendance, no grieving friends or relatives.
Mariupol – Russian MoD spoke of foreign mercenaries. This will be interesting – they will be treated as mercenaries unless they start singing. No doubt any that are captured will see a tribunal in Donetsk which has the death sentence.
Macron in particular appears desperate to get them out.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 9 2022 22:38 utc | 289

Many pics of Imran Khan and Ghislaine Maxwell remain unscrubbed from the internet tubes.
The two appear to be quite chummy.
The Powers That Be endeavored to remove him from office.
Still, odd that so many prominent figures have been photographed with either one/or both Maxwell and Epstein.
Here is one of many pics of Khan and Max.
https://twitter.com/burtmackliinfbi/status/1309811465059291136

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Apr 9 2022 22:40 utc | 290

I don’t get why my comment won’t show up? It’s not about Jews btw; I just mention them once in general. Could it be the length?

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2022 22:40 utc | 291

vinnieoh | Apr 9 2022 22:14 utc | 274
Apparently those missiles have two modes – long range ballistic missile or shorter range cruise missile.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 9 2022 22:42 utc | 292

The evacuees were going to Russia, if the Russian troops intended to kill them they could have done it in their abodes, it makes no sense to gather them for evacuation, then fire a missile killing them.

Posted by: Baron | Apr 9 2022 22:45 utc | 293

Congressional Record

Amendment Offered by Mr. Conyers
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will report the amendment.
The Clerk read as follows:
At the end of the bill (before the short title), add the
following:
Sec. __. None of the funds made available by this Act may
be used to provide arms, training, or other assistance to the
Azov Battalion.
Mr. CONYERS (during the reading). Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous
consent the amendment be considered as read.
The Acting CHAIR. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman
from Michigan?
There was no objection.
The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to House Resolution 303, the gentleman
from Michigan and a Member opposed each will control 5 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I begin by thanking Mr. Frelinghuysen and
Mr. Visclosky in conducting the amendments around these important
considerations.
This amendment that I propose this evening limits arms, training, and
other assistance to the neo-Nazi Ukrainian militia, the Azov Battalion.
Foreign Policy magazine has characterized the 1,000-man Azov
Battalion as “openly neo-Nazi” and “fascist.” Numerous other news
organizations, including The New York Times, The Guardian, and the
Associated Press have corroborated the dominance of White supremacist
and anti-Semitic views within the group; yet Ukraine’s Interior
Minister recently announced the Azov Battalion will be among the units
to receive training and arms from Western allies, including the United
States.
Azov’s founder, Andriy Biletsky, organized the neo-Nazi group the
Social-National Assembly in 2008. Azov men use neo-Nazi symbolism on
their banner.
{time} 0020
These groups run counter to American values, and once the fighting
ends, they pose a significant threat to the Ukrainian Government and to
the Ukrainian people. As we have seen many times, most notably within
the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, these groups will not lay down their
arms once the conflict is over. They will turn their arms against their
own people in order to enforce their hateful views.
I urge the support of my amendment and to make it U.S. law that we
will not equip this dangerous neo-Nazi militia.
Mr. VISCLOSKY. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gentleman from Indiana.
Mr. VISCLOSKY. Mr. Chairman, I think I speak for the committee in
suggesting that we accept the gentleman’s amendment and appreciate the
fact that he wants to exercise care, as we do on the committee, to make
sure whoever is trained is someone who is, if you would, a person of
good intent, as opposed to someone who is not. I appreciate the
gentleman’s concern and for his offering the amendment.
Mr. CONYERS. I thank the gentleman from Indiana.
Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gentleman from New Jersey.
Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Mr. Chairman, we accept the amendment.
Mr. CONYERS. I thank the gentleman from New Jersey.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
The Acting CHAIR. The question is on the amendment offered by the
gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Conyers).
The amendment was agreed to.

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2015/06/10/house-section/article/H4117-2
There is plenty more (this is a 2014 thru 2018 search for Azov) (some of these refer to the “Sea of Azov”)
https://www.congress.gov/quick-search/congressional-record?wordsPhrases=ukraine+azov&wordVariants=on&congressGroups%5B%5D=0&congresses%5B%5D=all&dateOperator=between&startDate=01%2F03%2F2014&endDate=01%2F04%2F2019&dateIsOption=yesterday&sectionDailyDigest=on&sectionSenate=on&sectionHouse=on&sectionExtensionsOfRemarks=on&representative%5B%5D=&senator%5B%5D=

Posted by: librul | Apr 9 2022 22:48 utc | 294

@b
“Having lost its thrust and aerodynamic tip the relative heavy booster section will then tumble to the ground. If everything works as designed the booster section always falls short of the warhead section.”
Is this true in this case though? I certainly agree that this is what we would expect *in general*. However, you said this missile used a fragmentation warhead. These detonate high above the ground. Therefore, while simple deduction can shed light as far as the trajectory, it is not clear that we can determine the *direction* (east–>west or west—>east) from that. If the warhead was detonated above the high above the ground, it is possible that the booster might still have landed at a point beyond the (projected) detonation point but still far before the expected point of impact (of the warhead) with the ground.
@Thomas: you don’t understand how physics work in this case I am afraid.

Posted by: galerkin | Apr 9 2022 22:50 utc | 295

In Australia and New Zealand the terms ‘the greater good’ and ‘the public good’ are euphemisms for what is easiest, cheapest and most expedient for the government of the day. Public consent is assumed as a given while real policy is determined elsewhere. Deviation from media/government policy is a punishable heresy. Now the Atlantic Council instructs:
“Washington Must Prepare for War With Both Russia and China
Pivoting to Asia and forgetting about Europe isn’t an option.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/18/us-russia-china-war-nato-quadrilateral-security-dialogue/
From RT which I can’t link to here:
Beijing Poses a ‘Systematic Challenge to Security’ According to Jens Stoltenberg…
“NATO plans to deepen its cooperation with partners in Asia as a response to a rising “security challenge” coming from China, which refuses to condemn Russia’s ongoing military operation in Ukraine, the US-led bloc’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg revealed during a press conference on Tuesday.
He announced that the bloc will host foreign ministers from member states as well as Finland, Sweden, Georgia, and the EU. However, the Norwegian-born official also noted that its Asia-Pacific partners – such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and South Korea – have been invited as well, stating that the current security crisis has “global implications….”
Meanwhile, for some realistic and independent analysis see MK Bhandrakumar:
“There is a notion among some mainstream Indian strategic analysts, including some who held top positions in the security establishment in past regimes that what is unfolding in Ukraine is quintessentially “a war between Europeans over the European security order.”
https://www.indianpunchline.com/indias-dilemma-over-west-vs-russia/

Posted by: Paul | Apr 9 2022 22:55 utc | 296

Re: And if you can instruct me on how to save Youtube videos it would be greatly appreciated.
—-
1) There is a site there, sFrom.net – save from network – it used to also provide good programs, but no more. Today their programs (including browser extensions) are riddled with hidden trojans to earn their money on your computer.
However the site itself is still good, albeit limited. You just add it to the site you wanted to download video from.
Strong point – you do not have to install anything, you just download it in your browser. On any computer out there, without any preparation.
Say, you want a video from

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo

You edit the Address Bar of your browser and prefix it with sfrom.net like this: 

 https://sfrom.net/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo

or like this 

 https://sfrom.net/www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo

or like this 

 sfrom.net/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo

or like this 

 sfrom.net/www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8A9pOhxYPo

You hit Enter key – and you have a page for choosing a format and downloading the video. Without anything installed.
Well, some interesting formats, like most hi-res or sound wiuthout video, would not be allowed. But for basic formats it works.
And on many sites besides YouTube too.
The key thing, again, is never installing programs from there, walking between those offers and only downloading the video.
2) There was a FreeMake Video Converter/Downloader
The interface makes it VERY simple to use.
The caveats though, free version adds advertisement water-mark and it has no “just download, do not change anything” option. It de-compresses video and then re-compresses it on the computer (afterall it has to add that commercial mark into it!). It is somewhat slow and – because consumer multimedia uses lossy compressions — it somewhat degrades quality.
Frankly, i loved that program a lot for a short time it was truly free. Ease of use was something. But no more.
3) there is http://jDownloader.org – it was created as a multitool to doanload files from rapidshare and such. Especially big archives split to many small parts. So the user interface is not straightforward.
But if you can get into its logic – carved for a rather different usage scenarios – it is a very versatile tool.
A nice video tutorial – just don’t use their download links! – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnzi1bv7ncw
You can start with feeding just a web page address URL into its web scraper panel, it would hopefully parse through it and find all the links to videos, music, files, etc. Sometimes there would be files you did not think there are, as there was no VISIBLE links, but ones hidden.
Then you would have to select files/videos you got interested in, and schedule them to download (there would be a button, but personally i prefer right-click menu). They would go to “Packages” panel.
“Packages” in jDownloader were meant to have different sources of the same file/archive. Like when a same file was uploaded to RapidShare, to DepositFiles, to iFolder, etc – file was the same, but file hosts were different. So the program could download the same file from multiplt hosts at once.
For videos though, “Packages” mean a bit different things – a selection of formats. Different resolutions, different compression, audio without video otr video without sound. Sounds a bit too techy….
OTOH you clearly see what are there ready formats, that you can just download keeping original quality.
You select one or few formats (personally i often opt for audio-without-video for music), and click to “start downloading” them.

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 22:56 utc | 297

Lysias@272
Thank you. Philip Nelson is on the reading list. Yes, the first volume is the best.
Caro did not believe Warren Commission. A decision to let it be rather than alienating publisher, reviewer, reader.
In the released White House phone calls Johnson made it plain he did not believe Warren. Does not say what he did believe, or what he knew, he did not believe Warren.

Posted by: Oldhippie | Apr 9 2022 23:07 utc | 298

Michael Bociurkiw’s father was Ottawa-based academic / historian Bohdan Rostyslav Bociurkiw. His main research interest was researching the persecution of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic community by Joseph Stalin’s government in the USSR. BRB died in the early 1990s.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 9 2022 21:39 utc | 261
He is “Ottawa-based” after 1947 – when his UPA-M (together with UPA-B) lost fight against USSR and were no more welcome in Europe.
Would you look around, you may find M.B. photo proudly wearing his father’s UPA uniform to honor “family line”.
“Ukrainian Greek Catholic community” was the Pappacy’s spearhead to destroy Orthodox Church. Like Ustasi in Serbia/Croatia.
In 2014 Greek-Catholic clerics were publicly blessing EuroMaidan soldiers to shoot at Donbass cities and churches.
So, basically UPA and GC were military and religious wings of the same society/movements.
Of course after failing military part and in need of some work BRB was given position to research his own youth – what he definitely knew really well.

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2022 23:08 utc | 299

@suchi #76 Great insight. I was also thinking – in response to some of the brainwashed comments – that if Tucker Carlson with the biggest news show gets only about 4 million viewers, and maybe all the rest that night earlier and later come to roughly 25 million (I suspect that might be too generous), then over 3,000,000 Americans are not watching nightly news meaning about 90% are not following all this stuff.
News junkies do follow all this stuff and tend to exaggerate its importance and impact. Personally, I stopped watching MSM decades ago and stopped reading NYT and WAPO over ten years ago. Because it all IS brainwashing and bad for the health if nothing else.
In any case, your description of the way most busy people handle this viz basically going along with a system is a great insight. Thanks.

Posted by: Scorpion | Apr 9 2022 23:13 utc | 300

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