Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 08, 2022

Ukrainian Tochka-U Missile Killed Dozens At Kramatorsk Train Station

The current top headline of the New York Times is:

Live Updates: Russia Strikes Train Station, Ukraine Says, as Thousands Flee From East

“Dozens” were feared dead and injured, a local official said, after a missile strike in Kramatorsk, which had been a main point of evacuation for people trying to leave eastern Ukraine.

CNN quotes an Ukrainian military official who described it as an Iskander missile strike:

Two missiles struck the station, according to the head of Ukraine's national rail system, Oleksandr Kamyshin. Pavlo Kyrylenko, the head of Donetsk regional military administration, said the Russian military used Iskander short-range ballistic missiles.

A pro-Ukrainian twitter account also describes this as a result of the missile attack (the time stamp is UTC+2):


bigger

The same account describes this as the remains of the booster section of the missile that hit the train station:

bigger
The picture in full size:

bigger

Another view of the debris from a different account:


bigger

A check with Tineye proves that the pictures above have not be published earlier. They are new.

The booster section of a missile typically departs from the war head in mid-flight and lands separately. However, the booster section shown in the above pictures is from a Tochka-U missile.

Here are pictures from GlobalSecurity.org of the SS-21 SCARAB (9K79 Tochka) system. The booster section is the aft half to the right:


bigger

When unfolded the fins and the grid stabilizers are clearly identifiable.


bigger

Russia, unlike the Ukraine, is no longer using Tochka-U missiles. They have been replaced by Iskandar missile systems. As the not recently edited Wikipedia entry about Tochka operators says:

Russia - 220 launchers. Missile systems have been upgraded since 2004 (replacing the onboard automated control systems) and are scheduled to be replaced by the 9K720 Iskander missiles by 2020

In a March 16 press release Russia denied that its forces still use Tochka-U missiles:

UNITED NATIONS, March 16. /TASS/. Tochka-U tactical missiles are not in service in Russian Armed Forces, Russian mission to the UN said in its letter to the UN Security Council and General Assembly.

"Given the proven record of the Kiev regime promoting false allegations and fake evidence, it should be noted that Tochka-U tactical missiles are not in service in the Russian Armed Forces," the letter says.

Ukraine, which has retained some 90 launcher systems for Tochka-U missiles from Soviet times, has recently fired several of these against Russian and Donbas forces.

I have failed to find any recent reports of the use of Tochka missiles by Russian forces.

This clipping from the most recent Southfront map shows Kramatorsk right in the middle and not immediately near the frontline.


bigger

A current situation report says that Russia has recently systematically disabled train tracks along the Ukrainian supply lines to the Donbas front:

As the big showdown in Donbass looms, a lot of forces are pouring in on both sides. Russia has shifted strategies and is now striking railway stations and reinforcement hubs / corridors, as many have hoped it would do. Overnight there were several reports of important railway hubs being hit by missiles. One near Zhytomir, which is possibly the single most important reinforcement hub to the frontlines in all of western Ukraine. Reinforcements being sent to frontlines were reportedly destroyed in the strike, though there’s no visual confirmation. And another in Kharkov region – just south, in Lozovaya – which evoked a video message plea from the Kharkov mayor who said railways were hit, oil has run out, but pleaded for people not to flee (presumably because the militants who control him need citizens to use as hostages / human shields just like in Mariupol).
...
As can be seen on this map, the Lozovaya junction is a critical resupply / reinforcement route for the Ukrop Donbass cauldron and specifically their stronghold of Kramatorsk, which had been the central headquarters of the entire JFO for some time. And other reports said a railway bridge was hit leading to that junction as well.

bigger

Of note is that so far all Russian attacks on train junctions were reported to have happened at night time.

As Russia has already interrupted the train lines west of Kramatorsk, and thereby stopped resupplies to it, it has no need to attack Kramatorsk station at all.

It is therefore almost assured that it was a Ukrainian missile that today hit Kramatorsk station. It was either aimed badly, went off course or was intentionally aimed at it for propaganda purposes. (The 'for the children' marking in Russian on the booster section may point to the later cause.)

We have no further information for us to decide which is the case.

Posted by b on April 8, 2022 at 10:38 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

I noticed something is missing... Where's the blood? Where is dead people? And where is the hole of missile? And what you think, if Your missile is 400-500kg warhead, is it so good condition after blow?

Posted by: Something is missing | Apr 8 2022 10:50 utc | 1

I've gone on the same story. But the rocket is no longer in use in Russia.

https://johnplatinumgoss.com/2022/04/08/another-nazi-atrocity-evacuees-slaughtered/

Posted by: John Goss | Apr 8 2022 10:53 utc | 2

Most if not all luggage in pics looks new, no marks at all. A bit odd if truly subjected to the blast of 400kg+ detonation. Maybe we are not seeing all the pics right now. Or maybe the effects department missed a few items on the set that day?

Posted by: Dubliner | Apr 8 2022 10:58 utc | 3

The cluster sub-munitions were dispersed while the missile was still in the air. The rocket body crashed to the ground without exploding because all warheads have already been dispersed before the missile hit the ground. Ukrainians are disgusting. Nobody believes in your stupid false flags.

Posted by: Cowboy | Apr 8 2022 11:02 utc | 4

the Ukrainians trying to keep the outrage in the West going, and the US press will lie to us about it "for our own good".

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 8 2022 11:04 utc | 5

Fake news, rocket remnants are Ukri used rocket. See Telegram. But I will not join the "information war". Waste of time. I just wonder what sanctions the US/Lackey's still have instore for punishment of Russia. They are also running out of "ammo" to be sent to the Ukrain.

Posted by: DutchZ | Apr 8 2022 11:05 utc | 6

Posted by: Dubliner | Apr 8 2022 10:58 utc | 3

Backpacks don't keel over dead when a submunition pierces through them, nor do they bleed.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 8 2022 11:08 utc | 7

Two things to note:
1. If the munition is configured to explode above or it's a cluster munition there will be no crater. Also there is horrific video with lots of blood and death if you really want to see it.
2. Evidence that the Russians are still using the rocket https://twitter.com/olarhat/status/1512352424215949315?s=20&t=z7TW3PvnGoXZC-vd5PzXzw

Posted by: common sense | Apr 8 2022 11:09 utc | 8

Probably a false flag since Charles Michel did not even wait for the debris to cool down, less wait for an investigation, before blaming Russia and raving on about MORE WEAPONS, MORE SANCTIONS!
And not even bothering about the victims.

Here is what he wrote on twitter:

"Horrifying to see Russia strike one of the main stations used by civilians evacuating the region where Russia is stepping up its attack.

Action is needed: more sanctions on Russia and more weapons to #Ukraine are under way from the EU. 5th package of EU sanctions just approved."

https://mobile.twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1512366177439428614

Posted by: Romanov | Apr 8 2022 11:10 utc | 9

Posted by: common sense | Apr 8 2022 11:09 utc | 8

sounds like another Ukrainian propagandist.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 8 2022 11:15 utc | 10

The purpose of the strike of the Ukronazi Point U on the railway station in Kramatorsk is to accuse Russia of another "brutal attack" of Russia against civilians, as well as to stop the evacuation of civilians from the city. Following the example of Mariupol, the Ukronazis need a human shield when the Russian army advances on the city.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 11:17 utc | 11

Frankly at this junction it's almost a waste of time debunking this stuff. First, it will be amplified all over the West and once in the minds of the morons there is no erasing it. Second, the people debunking it have been canceled out of the mainstream media so nothing that is said will have the slightest impact.

The important reason to debunk it is simply to record it as a listing in the upcoming war crimes tribunals which are allegedly tentatively scheduled for June, according to Martyanov, which implies Russia expects this to be over by then, at least sufficiently to begin holding them. But we don't need to do that - the Russians can do it by themselves nicely since they know what happened.

Just wait for the official MoD statement and consider the case closed. Frankly, I consider the only reliable source of information on this war is the MoD briefings, which I suspect are at least 95% accurate, at least on the actual combat events, if not necessarily on the more "political" aspects.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 8 2022 11:19 utc | 12

What is the NYT explanation for the SS21 missiles fired at Donetsk ? Are they Russian too ?

What is Ukrainian artillery using ?
What possible reason does Russia have for targeting a railway station ? It did not do so in Kiev or Kharkov or any other city ?

Why is this city so special ?

Is the NYT certain ? It has a sad record of poor factual accuracy back to at least 2002 with a journalist called Judith Miller having lots of Iraqi dead on her "conscience"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 8 2022 11:27 utc | 13

@ Richard 13

Sadly that is the path the west has chosen for humanity.

"We lied, we cheated, we stole"

Gets amplified and accepted. It is vile.

But the rest of the world will not accept it.

Posted by: Romanov | Apr 8 2022 11:32 utc | 14

Firstly I'd like to thank the many that have replied in a previous thread following my message of total despair in the face of the general stupidy and meanness if people around me, around us. I saved your replies and read them regularly.

Secondly, I'm seeing more and more anti-b people posting in here. Does it mean that MoA is getting more exposure on mainstream channels like the propaganda infested medium.com? Is this a good thing? Will we miss the old days where you could read well documented comments for hours on end without coming across simplistic uninformed and deformed views on geopolitics? I'm not talking about being closed to divergent opinions, rather about being flooded with parrots of mainstream media.

How will the community and b. deal with more exposure and popularity and thus, more mediocrity in the comments?

Posted by: Melkiades | Apr 8 2022 11:32 utc | 15

I think Russia can easily prove that the missile came from Ukraine held territory, if this was the case. Their air defense should have either picked up the firing or at least the flight path. Its pretty reckless from Western MSM to go after Russia, while Russia can easily counter the allegation and make Western MSM look bad.

Either way: RIP to those who are innocent civilians and are victims from both sides. Decision makers never think about those ppl when they decide to do what they do, again both sides, I understand Russia's reasoning and Western hardline refusal to amend the situation with NATO and Ukraine.

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 11:41 utc | 16

https://defence-blog.com/russian-tochka-u-ballistic-missiles-return-to-service-amid-ukraine-war/

This post suggests Russia redeployed old tochkas. Or maybe the launching platform has more uses. Also is anything like that in use in Donbass? The direction the missile was coming from may offer more definitive proof :south west-ish.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 8 2022 11:50 utc | 17

There is another possible hint from end of march, that Russia has Tochka-U in service: https://defence-blog.com/russian-tochka-u-ballistic-missiles-return-to-service-amid-ukraine-war/

Hopefully Russia isn't running dry on Iskanders and has to resort to old Tochka-U's (it said it doesn't have).

Posted by: clayt1n | Apr 8 2022 11:53 utc | 18

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 8 2022 11:50 utc | 18

The fact that it is a Tochka U doesnt prove or disprove anything. The radar images from the Russian air defense units will conclusively show the flight path. If the flight path was from West to East, the missile was fired by Ukraine.

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 11:56 utc | 19

@Tuyzentfloot

That blog seems to be from Kiev and does not link to its source. Also - the picture quality is awful.

Posted by: b | Apr 8 2022 11:57 utc | 20

bunch of posters suddenly showing up linking to this defence blog guy. hmmm.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 8 2022 12:00 utc | 21

I'm kind of convinced thanks to this picture/geo location analysis that the source of the missile are the Galician Borderlanders.

https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1512389971700768774

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 8 2022 12:00 utc | 22

Statement by the Ministry of Defense of Russia:
According to updated data, the strike on the railway station of Kramatorsk was carried out by a missile division of the Ukrainian armed forces from the area of ​​​​the settlement of Dobropolye, 45 kilometers southwest of the city.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:01 utc | 23

The location of the booster - its direction from the impact point will show what direction the missile came from which apparently was from the southwest.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2022 12:03 utc | 24

I saw in several earlier threads people asking why Putin doesn't just turn off the gas when the west is sanctioning Russia and stealing the cash.

I think the aim is to expose the hipocrisy of the west. But in order to do so he must stick to his part of the deal.

Posted by: Romanov | Apr 8 2022 12:03 utc | 25

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:01 utc | 23

Thx, if the Russian MoD publishes the name of the settlement and the distance, they must have clear evidence. They should publish the date ASAP, otherwise Western MSM will simply say "Russian sources are not credible".

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:06 utc | 26

Reuters is already on it and has made it
their main headline.

Ukraine says 39 killed in rocket strike on rail evacuation hub


LVIV/BORODYANKA, Ukraine, April 8 (Reuters) - At least 39 people were killed and 87 wounded on Friday when two rockets hit a railway station in eastern Ukraine packed with evacuees, Ukrainian authorities said, as the region braced for a major Russian offensive.

Make note of the propaganda technique in the first paragraph of the associated article.
When George W Bush gave his important speech just prior to Congress voting
on giving him authority to use military force against Iraq he employed
the same propaganda technique.

Cause and effect. The typical reader's brain thinks there is a cause and effect relationship
between what is said and what follows. George W Bush used it five times in his speech.
George said "Saddam Hussein" and "September 11th" five times, one following the other.
As you may remember, the majority of Americans believed Saddam was involved in
September 11th at the time of our 2003 invasion of Iraq.

George W Bush did the same thing in January 2003 during his State of the Union Address;
five times also, "Saddam Hussein" and "September 11th".

As you can see from the lead paragraph of the Reuters article, it does not specifically
say that the Russians did it, but the average reader's brain will make that association -
cause and effect.

Posted by: librul | Apr 8 2022 12:10 utc | 27

INGSOC's lead magazine's story is so fitting to what the Galician Borderlanders have been doing.

"The Economist

One reason to back Ukraine in the war is because the West rejects the view that people are a means to an end. That means documenting war crimes, in order to show that every life matters"

https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1512396604657082376

Doublespeak at its best.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 8 2022 12:10 utc | 28

Russia shot the missile down

Posted by: James | Apr 8 2022 12:10 utc | 29

It’s timed well for the NYT publishing verification that the Ukrainian military is executing POWs, as well as various Ukrainian mayors telling civilians not to evacuate (while municipal Ukrainian leadership is always the first out the door to somewhere safer).

If we use the simple, who benefits model, then we need to recognize that Russia wants civilians out so it can put serious work into Ukrainian forces while Ukraine wants civilians in so that Russia cannot put in that sort of work.

Posted by: Lex | Apr 8 2022 12:11 utc | 30

Russian Armed Forces have completed the decommissioning of Tochka-U in 2019:

Iskanders armed: the systems will get invulnerable missiles (Izvestiya, Anton Lavrov & Anna Cherepanova, June 2, 2021 — in Russian)


In December 2019, the head of the Defense Ministry Sergey Shoygu has announced that all missile brigades of the Russian Ground Forces have been re-equipped with the Iskander-M OTRK. They have completely replaced the outdated Tochka-U systems of the previous generation. A total of 13 military formations have been equipped with them.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 12:15 utc | 31

Another attempt by the Nazi agents of the West to prolong the war. The cynicism and the lack of common decency among the Western elites are appalling.

Posted by: Steve | Apr 8 2022 12:17 utc | 32

Thx, if the Russian MoD publishes the name of the settlement and the distance, they must have clear evidence. They should publish the date ASAP, otherwise Western MSM will simply say "Russian sources are not credible".

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:06 utc | 26

The published proof was provided hours ago and posted on Telegram Channels like https://t.me/s/intelslava and https://t.me/s/boris_rozhin

The fact remains, as Richard Steven Hack points out, that even if 99.9% here agree it was a Ukrainian missile, it means nothing to the majority of people who only consume MSM news.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 8 2022 12:17 utc | 33

Автор: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:06 utc | 26

I am sure our Ministry of Defense will do it in the near future. Regarding the fact that "Russian sources are not trustworthy" it will be in any case. We are already used to this.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:17 utc | 34

Автор: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:06 utc | 26

I am sure our Ministry of Defense will do it in the near future. Regarding the fact that "Russian sources are not trustworthy" it will be in any case. We are already used to this.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:17 utc | 34

If it's "untrustworthy" to NATO, it's trustworthy to me.

Simple. Efficient. Clear.

Posted by: Misotheist | Apr 8 2022 12:21 utc | 35

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:17 utc | 34

I understand your frustration. But then its of the utmost importance to make life as difficult as possible for Western MSM. Its pretty easy to refute a claim that is not supported by presented evidence. Its a completely different case, when the claim is supported by evidence, eg rada images to prove the flight path. Then you can not refute the claim by simply saying "its Russian, they only lie".

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:22 utc | 36

Sorry, I typed the old handle in.

My bad, muscle memory.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 8 2022 12:22 utc | 37

@Posted by: librul | Apr 8 2022 12:10 utc | 27

Correction to @27

I was working from memory and the January 2003 State of the Union Address
did not use that propaganda technique *five* times. I just reviewed it and
only find one:


Before September 11, 2001, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents and lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons, and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take just one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that day never comes.

Posted by: librul | Apr 8 2022 12:25 utc | 38

I see Slovakia is sending their S-300 missile defense systems to Ukraine to replace the ones that were destroyed.

https://t.me/intelslava/24700

Those will likely be destroyed as well. Do they intend to replace them with the Russian S-400? Or will sanctions mean that they need to source inferior products? Not sure anyone thought this maneuver through.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Apr 8 2022 12:26 utc | 39

Posted by: common sense | Apr 8 2022 11:09 utc | 8

please stop propagating fake news. Tochka-U is only used by the ukros and Bielorussians. It even says so in the video - it's from the recent joint war games...

Posted by: Boo | Apr 8 2022 12:34 utc | 40

Автор: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:22 utc / 36

Thanks for the sympathy, but there is no disappointment. We have gone through the lies of the Western media in South Ossetia 2008, in Syria since 2011, in Ukraine in 2014, the fake poisonings of Skripals and Navalny. The feeling of disappointment is long gone. War is war.

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:39 utc | 41

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Apr 8 2022 11:50 utc | 17
Posted by: clayt1n | Apr 8 2022 11:53 utc | 18
Posted by: b | Apr 8 2022 11:57 utc | 20

From a Russian ex-military, https://t.me/polkovnik_hodarenok/1252?single (highly recommended, btw, because he knows what the Russians and the ukros have):

[ Album ]
Ukraine struck Kramatorsk with a "Dot-U", their own photo and video materials prove this.

As we have already discussed earlier, when a rocket falls to the ground, its body or debris on the ground remain oriented in the same direction in which the product was moving in the air.

The Ukrainian side has thrown in a lot of photos and videos that allow you to accurately determine the location of the rocket body after the fall and its orientation. The nose of the "Dot-U" looks to the northeast, and the tail part to the southwest. I am attaching satellite images that correspond to the place of the rocket crash in Kramatorsk shown by Ukraine and its position on the ground.

It is clear that the rocket flew to Kramatorsk from the southwest, approximately from the area between the settlements of Mezhevaya and Dobropillya, controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

But (!) — "Dot-U" is not in service with the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. The complete rearmament of the ground forces on the Iskander-M in November 2019 was reported on the website of the Ministry of Defense. This fact is recorded by all influential international military reference "The Military Balance".

Posted by: Boo | Apr 8 2022 12:46 utc | 42

Looks fake enough to me.

More than that it looks "fake enough" on purpose as if it is meant not to be all too convincing for anyone paying some attention.

Why fake?

Because any explosive munitions leave behind a lot of random chaos and there is very little if any random chaos at all in the pictures I see on this page. Except for a tiny and shallow patch of disturbed soil close to a relatively heavy rocket booster there doesn't even seem to be any scruff marks, any debris, any wayward impacts from the sub-munitions.

This kind of weapon is essentially the same as blanketing an area with fragmentation grenades that explode at a set height. The effect on people and unarmored material is (as the Korean movie is named) "Steel Rain" and everything is torn through with metal.

I've used a much less powerful weapon myself; a two-person team portable recoilless gun with a fragmentation grenade (and separately also the HE grenade). Tiny in comparison but the effect in the grenade's area of impact was to essentially lift that area of the landscape several meters up into the air. Some of that was due to the fact that it was swampland; it was easy to churn up and kick up into the air for the relatively small roughly 2-3 kg grenade.

Nothing remotely close to that has happened in these pictures claiming to be the effects of a much more powerful weapon created to rip through infantry and perhaps also most light armor.

Why "fake enough"?

Because there are at least hundreds of thousands of people who can easily make the same deduction I did, if not millions or tens of millions or even more.

Whoever is creating this nonsense should also be among those who realize that it doesn't look the least convincing. If by some strange change they don't then their peers or superiors should, and so on.

So why the deliberate "fake enough" fakery? Well it separates out those who pay attention from those that don't, for what reason is unknown.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 8 2022 12:49 utc | 43

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 12:39 utc | 42

No problem, Not all Germans are like the ones that want Germans to hate Russians. My grandfathers was 40 Km away from center of Moscow in December 1941 at Zvenigorod. The Red Army overrun his regiment in early December (was one of the first breakthroughs around Moscow, due to long frontline to next unit and hollowed out manpower). He was taken POW at Mogilev, when the Red Army destroyed Heeresgruppe Mitte in Belarus in 1044 and came back to Germany in 1950. His father was killed at Verdun in 1916, when my grandfather was 1 year old. The father of his wife, my grandmother, wasnt even born, when her father was killed at Verdun as well in 1916. So my family knows something about being deceived by propaganda to fight for the "greatness" of Germany

My grandfather taught me that I should never hate anyone, because that is the basis for all wars, and that I should never follow anybody that wants me to hate other human beings. Since then, I have been immune to any attempt by our German MSM to poison my mind with war propaganda, to hate another human being for the fact that he is Russian (or any other nationality, religion, skin color etc).

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:56 utc | 44

@b:

Ukraine, which had retained some 90 launcher systems for Tochka-U missiles from Soviet times, has recently fired several of these against Russian and Donbas forces.

Russian military expert Vladislav Shurygin says they only had 18 launchers:

“We are witnessing the last launches of Tochka-Us in history” (Gazeta, Denis Telmanov, March 20, 2022 — in Russian)


According to him, the Ukraine inherited Tochka-Us from the Soviet Union—18 launchers and about 150 missiles. Now most of these launchers have been destroyed, a significant number of missiles have also been destroyed, and out of about 15 launches, almost all have been intercepted.

As of yesterday, a total of 24 Tochka-U missiles have been fired by the Ukraine (sorry, can’t find the link at the moment), some hitting targets inside the Russian Federation: Millerovo, Rostov Oblast on February 25 and Krasnyy Oktyabr, Belgorod Oblast on March 29.

On March 14, 2022, the Ukraine has fired a Tochka-U missile at the center of Donetsk. Although it was intercepted, the intercept happened too close to the ground, so some of the cluster munitions still reached the streets, killing 23 and wounding 37. The explosions occured at 11:31. During the previous day, March 13, Ukrainian social media psy-ops posing as “concerned women of the DNR” have been calling on DNR women to gather in the center of Donetsk on March 14 at 12:00 to protest forced mobilization of DNR men.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 13:00 utc | 45

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 13:00 utc | 47

As I recall - Patrick Lancaster covered it - there was an interception of a Tochka-U aimed at central Donetsk with a cluster-munitions cassette. - even though it was intercepted the cassette released.

Wasn't that where a man pushed a woman and child into a doorway before he was cut to pieces by the flechettes ?

14 March

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 8 2022 13:04 utc | 46

I see Slovakia is sending their S-300 missile defense systems to Ukraine to replace the ones that were destroyed.

I believe they had one battery with 48 missiles they inherited from Czechia but require Russia to service and maintain. They have no doubt been promised Patriots for a couple of weeks and paid into offshore accounts or given US passports

I doubt Russia will allow this system to become operational.......

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 8 2022 13:08 utc | 47

@b

You forgot to downsize the image named “ukrmissile4-s.jpg”, and it’s making the page too wide.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 13:11 utc | 48

French reporter who was in Bucha claims that there was no dead bodies when and his crew visited and that the civilians thought the Russians were friendly and helpful.

"RT was unable to independently verify the authenticity of the recordings. In what appears to be an excerpt from a satellite phone call, an alleged reporter identified only as ‘Simon’ tells his colleagues he visited Borodyanka and found that “there’s no bodies in the streets at all,” contrary to what he was led to expect.

The town has been “shelled to pieces,” he outlines, “but there’s no evidence of any rights abuses here at all.” Simon claims that he and his crew interviewed multiple residents who said the Russian troops had been very friendly and gave them food and water and other supplies. “And we got quotes on camera for that,” he adds.


“I don’t know what the prosecutor was talking about, but we have seen nothing like that at all. It’s a completely different picture,” he continues, adding that a French journalist may have seen the body of someone killed by shelling, but “no executions.”"

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 8 2022 13:11 utc | 49

Interesting overview of the Ukie military plans to attack Donbass and prevent the RF response, as well some fresh info on the current tactical level of the Ukie forces:

https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7547487.html

Choice excerpt:


After the withdrawal of Russian troops from the northern territories of Ukraine, an operational reserve of up to two infantry brigades was created from part of the AFU forces involved in the defense of KIEV and CHERNIHIV, which regrouped to the Dnieper direction, where it was partially destroyed on 06.4.22 at the LOZOVAYA station. Other parts of the operational reserve even before the brigade were formed partly from foreign mercenaries and volunteers in the western part of Ukraine, but were also destroyed during the 07.4.22 regrouping at the Novograd-Volynsky station. Thus, the Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine failed to gather a significant reserve to prevent the encirclement of its forces in the Donbas at the request of up to 15,000 people. To prepare and conduct the general battle, the leadership of the Armed Forces of Ukraine continues measures to concentrate the remnants of combat-ready units near PAVLOGRAD, as well as to restore the combat capability of its armed Forces through the third wave of mobilization, which will allow it to partially fill the current shortage and form up to two or three infantry brigades, which can later be used to hold settlements along the western bank of the Dnieper River.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 8 2022 13:18 utc | 50

Автор: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 12:56 utc | 46

Oh no, I don't have a ready negative opinion about Western people. Rather, for me, all people, regardless of their place of birth, are divided into people who are dominated by the highest human qualities, honor, conscience, active independent thinking, and people who are dominated by lower animal instincts, which are used by Western media. As for my ancestors ... One of my grandfathers died in Hungary in 1945, the second, fortunately, went through the entire war...

Posted by: Nebo Sinee | Apr 8 2022 13:18 utc | 51

Who do the civilians think is bombing them?

Posted by: too scents | Apr 8 2022 13:21 utc | 52

@Paul Greenwood #49

Well, the way DNR authorities described it was that the missile has been intercepted, but too late (at a low altitude), so some of the cluster munitions have reached the streets; had it not been intercepted at all, all of them would have reached the streets and many more people would have died.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 13:23 utc | 53

Posted by: Arne Hartmann | Apr 8 2022 11:41 utc | 17

Yes!

The Wiki entry, and any "official" comment saying the same, of this missile [system] being phased out by Russia] is NOT the same as saying that they can/did NOT use it/them. Just saying here that this is a bad rebuttal, it's open for ridicule.

Actual forensics (including, as Arne noted, determining launch site) in addition to understanding what the tactical logic is ought to tell us the most likely forces behind this. Again, the FIRST question should always be: Cui Bono?

There's zero logic in it for Russia to be indiscriminately bombing civilians, even IF Russia thought that this would somehow speed up the end (again, I'm not seeing how Russia could possibly come up with such faulty logic).

This and all other such [potentially staged] events is to buy time for the West to condition its populations, not to win any war (not militarily and not economically). Greatest danger to the ruling powers in the West is that of internal unrest [not that the West is unique in such fears- pretty standard throughout all of history for ANY/ALL governments].

Posted by: Seer | Apr 8 2022 13:26 utc | 54

The more WWII closed to an end, the closer German victories were to Berlin.

The closer Ukraine "EndSieg", the more we'll learn about Russian atrocities ...
The more western Journos will yell about ...
Get used to it!

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Apr 8 2022 13:29 utc | 55

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 8 2022 11:27 utc | 13
Just wait the NYT will find a way to blame Russia for the shelling in Donetsk, and we have come full circle.

Posted by: Quiet Rebel | Apr 8 2022 13:29 utc | 56

quoting the comic again. . .
USAToday
'An evil without limits': Dozens killed, injured in rocket strike on train station in eastern Ukraine: Live updates
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, writing on social media, said thousands of people were present in the station at the time of the strike.
“The inhuman Russians are not changing their methods. Without the strength or courage to stand up to us on the battlefield, they are cynically destroying the civilian population,” the president said on social media. “This is an evil without limits. And if it is not punished, then it will never stop.”. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 8 2022 13:30 utc | 57

Look at the photo of the 4 burned out cars and the man stretched out on his stomach with a liquid trail leading to him. The man might be real and was brought to the location. But what really sticks out is the 4 burned out cars and nothing around them? No debris, the next car down the line looks in perfectly good condition. The 4 cars look like they were placed there?

Posted by: Patriot 100 | Apr 8 2022 13:36 utc | 58

Why was Ukraine firing Tochka-U missiles at Mariupol?

A booster part of a Tochka-U missile landed in a playground on the Left Bank neighborhood of Mariupol. It was first seen on a photo published March 24 and later on a video from March 29. In the video the nearby building is burnt out, but in the photo it is undamaged, indicating that the missile was fired before DPR forces took over this part of town.

I believe (as does Michael Kobs) that the Mariupol maternity hospital was attacked by two Tochka-U missiles.


Posted by: Petri Krohn | Apr 8 2022 13:39 utc | 59

The people may well have been killed but it is also theater. As Sunny Runny Burger there is no bomb damage, luggage not torn by fragments and in the second area where there are bodies none of the windows were broke. The burnt out cars - top right of the pics b has listed - not even smoking - fire department been and gone and the bodies still laying there.

Smoking cars and fire department for the photo op. https://twitter.com/olehbatkovych/status/1512344317674889219/photo/2
https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1512421256871788546

Non of the pics or video show ambulances. Yesterday that train station but no trains running back to the east today as Russia had knocked out a bridge overnight apparently.

The right hand pic in this link apparently a different place a the trains station. Windows are not broken. https://twitter.com/olehbatkovych/status/1512348821069742082

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2022 13:42 utc | 60

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 8 2022 12:49 utc | 45

Is it possible that the reason it did not have the impact it should have, is because the Russians tried to intercept it as they did in Donetsk?

Posted by: Circe | Apr 8 2022 13:49 utc | 61

Posted by: Patriot 100 | Apr 8 2022 13:36 utc | 61

That guy's pants also appear to be pulled down a fair amount, which seems to be consistent with something that would happen with dragging a body. The fluid trail also seems to uniform to be of someone moving on their own accord: one wounded that badly would be lunging and lurching- think pulses of liquids poking here and there.

Posted by: Seer | Apr 8 2022 13:49 utc | 62

It's time to off the comedian, since criticism of his foolishness is denied.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 8 2022 13:52 utc | 63

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 8 2022 12:49 utc | 45

Agreed as soon as I saw the first photograph and then a very rough video. Almost no trace of what might be considered blood.

This fakery has been going on in some terrorist incidents for many years, but is rarely so obvious. Some terrorist attrocities are very real indeed, but real or fake, the propaganda value has the same effect on the vast majority. Of the tiny minority who question these things, many reach the wrong conclusion, and become convinced that everything is faked, even an entire war - or 9/11.

I have no military experience whatsoever, have never wanted to work in an abbatoir, nor see such photography

Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Apr 8 2022 13:55 utc | 64

@s
@b
You forgot to downsize the image named “ukrmissile4-s.jpg”, and it’s making the page too wide.

Now corrected. You will have to reload the page to get the smaller version.

Posted by: b | Apr 8 2022 13:57 utc | 65

Another thing with some of these events with dead people (?) laying around. Where are their relatives? Most people don't travel alone. If my wife or husband or child was laying there I would be next to them or standing as close as possible. Or waiting for the ambulance to come. You see no people around? Not even within a 100 ft. WTF

Posted by: Patriot 100 | Apr 8 2022 14:00 utc | 66

And if there were a hundred wounded it would be pure chaos around the area. But of course, as usual no body seen anything or had a camera or phone to film all the chaos.

Posted by: Patriot 100 | Apr 8 2022 14:05 utc | 67

Belarus also still has some Tochka missile systems

08.04.2022 (14:50) - Statement by Russian Defence Ministry

In order to accuse Russia of an alleged missile strike on Kramatorsk railway station, Kiev regime has posted on social media pictures of Tochka-U missile launchers that took part in "Union Courage 2022" Russian-Belarusian exercise inFebruary.

Please note, all photos published by Kiev from "Union Courage 2022" exercise show non-Russian missile systems.

Tochka-U tactical missiles whose wreckage was found near Kramatorsk railway station are used only by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

According to clarified information, the strike on Kramatorsk railway station was carried out by missile division of the Ukrainian armed forces from the area of Dobropol’e, 45 kilometres south-west of the city.

The aim of the Kiev regime's strike on the railway station in Kramatorsk was to disrupt the mass exit of residents from the city in order to use them as a "human shield" to defend Ukrainian armed forces positions, as in many other Ukrainian population centres.

Posted by: b | Apr 8 2022 14:05 utc | 68

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 8 2022 13:30 utc | 60


Ahahahahahahahah

It would be comedy gold if it wasn't so black.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 8 2022 14:08 utc | 69

Looks like these fictional little film productions will be more common in Ukraine than they were in Syria.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2022 14:15 utc | 70

@Peter AU1 #24:

The location of the booster - its direction from the impact point will show what direction the missile came from which apparently was from the southwest.

Yuriy Podolyaka shows in his video (skip to 1:19) that the missile has, indeed, come from the southwest. The red circle in the diagram indicates the area that was hit, the red dot indicates the location of the booster; Tochka-U boosters fall slightly “nearer” than the munitions. The orientation of the missile (skip to 1:16) also shows that it came from the southwest.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 14:23 utc | 71

"LET US BE CRYSTALLY CLEAR: PUTIN DOES NOT OFFER ANY KIND OF PROMISE,
or even an image of a ‘better world,’ only a world dominated by oligarchic interests, or
as some have correctly put it, a world of KGB capitalism. One that in Russia has already
without a doubt crushed antifascism, the left, and any democratic opposition in
Russia, and if permitted, would do the same outside of Russia as well."

From: Against war in Ukraine and the New Imperialism: A Letter of Solidarity with the
Oppressed, By Gal Kirn, published in LeftEast.

EVEN BEFORE RUSSIAN TROOPS INVADED, LEFT-WING
organizations and other anti-war activists in Russia and Ukraine had consistently demanded a peaceful resolution to the conflict in the region. After the attack, the protests continued in many ways. There were peace demonstrations in many Russian cities. At least 2000 people have
been arrested for demonstrating against the war and demanding peace.
The platform Alternative Left emphasizes that only a “nationwide Russian anti-war mobilization” could stop the war. That call ends with the declaration “For an Independent Ukraine and a Free Russia!” “In the same spirit, Autonomous Action is asking people to participate in anti-war actions and sign a petition. That petition demands an end to the war and calls for the establishment of a broad movement within Russia against it.
Thus far, over 500,000 people have signed it.

Posted by: thomas | Apr 8 2022 14:23 utc | 72

I'm looking at those two photos of "carnage" and a couple of things stand out to me:
1) The "explosion" was powerful enough to kill all those people, but not to damage their clothing. I can't see any sign of the clothes being torn. Or even dislodged.

2) The four cars appear to be almost completely burnt out by the "explosion", yet the two glass globes of the light post above them are intact. Heck, they aren't even scorched.

3) Of all the bags and backpacks amongst the victims only one shows any sign of any damage. And even that is limited to it being open and its contents revealed (though not blow away by the explosion, how odd).

4) Ahem. One wheeled backpack is still upright, even though the person it is supposed to belong to isn't. Maybe it flew through the air and just happened to land upright, though that is stretching credulity more than a little bit.

5) From what I can see all the bodies appear to be remarkably intact even though those four cars are not. Which is strange, as the last time someone closed a car door on my fingers I had a very vivid illustration of how much more resilient sheet metal is compared to flesh and bone.

Unless there is more evidence to come I'm going to conclude that the scene is staged: the cars, the bodies, and the luggage were all added after the event. If there was any event at all.

Maybe they all died of fright and just, you know, fell to the ground.
Or maybe they were placed there to make the entire thing seem more credible.

I suspect the latter.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 8 2022 14:26 utc | 73

What is in the photos is incompetent set dressing. Nothing happened here. Nothing at all.

It doesn’t matter how obviously fake it all is. Commentariat pursues infinite red herrings. Commentariat provides all the misdirection and FUD the perpetrators could hope for.

They know it works because they have done it so many times before. And they always get away with it. Viewers look at the photos and don’t know what to make of it. The voiceover is right there to tell them what to think. Anyone with a different interpretation instantly becomes a sociopath. It works every time.

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 8 2022 14:30 utc | 74

@b #69:

Now corrected. You will have to reload the page to get the smaller version.

I have deleted the browser cache, but https://www.moonofalabama.org/12i/ukrmissile4-s.jpg still returns an image that is 800 pixels wide, whereas it should be 380 pixels wide to match the other thumbnail images.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 14:31 utc | 75

Posted by: thomas | Apr 8 2022 14:23 utc | 76

F*cking tr*ts...

After that, are they going to go into ukraine and rat the nazis out?

And then are they going to go into the western governments and security services and purge the promoters and funders of nazists?

No?

Then why do they believe they have anything constructive to contribute to this shitshow?

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 8 2022 14:31 utc | 76

Polite ppl in the port of Mariupol: https://t.me/boris_rozhin/40846.

Posted by: Boo | Apr 8 2022 14:31 utc | 77

Posted by: clayt1n | Apr 8 2022 11:53 utc | 18
Posted by: Boo | Apr 8 2022 12:46 utc | 43

Russian MoD already responded that the videos of the Tochka-U's are Belarussian and from the joint exercise with Belarus from february.

The current analysis of the flight path (from south west) seems to strengthen that claim. I'll wonder how the western media will spin this disaster.


Posted by: clayt1n | Apr 8 2022 14:32 utc | 78

@ Republicofscotland - 52

From what I have heard this radio recording was not in Bucha but a town on the same main highway but further NW.

Posted by: Brannagyn | Apr 8 2022 14:34 utc | 79

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 8 2022 14:26 utc | 77

Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 8 2022 14:30 utc | 78

The pictures of bodies on the ground are relatively consistent with the submunitions Tochka-U hit on Donetsk not long ago.

Posted by: Misotheist | Apr 8 2022 14:35 utc | 80

I'll wonder how the western media will spin this disaster.

Posted by: clayt1n | Apr 8 2022 14:32 utc | 82

Silence is golden. Who in Western MSM will call them out on this. No one with serious "volume". It worked super in Iraq.

That is why coming out with lies FIRST and then repeating them everywhere works.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 8 2022 14:39 utc | 81

For those saying the damage of the Tochka-U is too slight, that there is a lack of broken windows, etc. If it was using cluster munitions you would not expect major devastation, clothes torn off, limbs scattered, etc.; it is far more in the nature of a lot of small shrapnel the marks of which are not always clearly evident.

Some footage from a cluster bomb attack in Azairbaijan. You will note that after two strikes the most notable damage is one car losing its door and fallen branches. The windows in top left, and many other, remain undamaged but if there had been a small group of people on that street they would have fared very badly.

Posted by: Brannagyn | Apr 8 2022 14:39 utc | 82

Another false flag. There will be one or more a day, given how successful it is among the imbeciles of the West.
I read here on Telegram channels that Slovakia will send S-300, Australia sends Bushmaster PMV, UK sends Starstreak...
Everyone sends weapons to Ukraine. A real party!
Is Russia destroying this weaponry on arrival?
How can planes still land in the west? Why weren't the railways and airports destroyed when Russia withdrew?
Why does Russia still supply gas to the west? Need the money? Even the meager money that comes from the Baltic dwarves?
Why not cut off supplies to such a country in exchange for expelling Russian diplomats just to show the effects?

Posted by: SCan | Apr 8 2022 14:41 utc | 83

Apart from the most obvious: Why would Russia strike an overwhelmingly and predominantly ethnic Russian Town they finally went in to protect and liberate from a 8 year long living hell from Nazi's who couldn't care less about them and hate them just because they are Russians?

But they do "care about" these "cockroaches" "Orc's" and "Moskals" for propaganda purposes, dead of course...

Posted by: mikhas | Apr 8 2022 14:42 utc | 84

@b

Thanks, it’s working now.

Posted by: S | Apr 8 2022 14:43 utc | 85

Brannagyn (83).

I think you are correct the report from the link mentions Borodyanka, not Bucha though the reporter says he'll head there.

This is also from the same link.


"Another recording obtained by RT seems to depict a conversation between two Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) officials. The SBU is the local successor agency to the Soviet KGB.

They discuss the situation in Kukhari, a town about 60 kilometers (37 miles) northwest of Bucha, and seem to contradict the prevailing media narrative coming from Kiev and the NATO capitals.

“From March 24 to April 3, after we pushed the ‘orcs’ away from here,” says a person only identified as Sergey Anatolyevich, speaking to someone named Lesogor and using a derogatory Ukrainian term for Russians. “After the unit that pushed them out moved on, the territorial defense came from Malin … and marauded during that time. Looted everything they could. Broke down doors, everything. Safes were opened, cars were stolen. They stuffed the cars with everything worth anything and took it away,” he adds.

“It turns out the ‘Moskals’ took nothing, but ours went in and looted everything,” Sergey Anatolyevich adds, using another derogatory term for Russians. Malin is a nearby town southwest of Kukhari, held by the Ukrainian military."


https://www.rt.com/russia/553492-kiev-bucha-atrocities-intercepts/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 8 2022 14:44 utc | 86

There so many psy-ops that it is almost impossible to keep track of them all!

Ana

Posted by: Ana Q | Apr 8 2022 14:45 utc | 87

The Russian Federation ... is an oligarchic capitalist state with the Russian Orthodox Church as an important source of power. The current government espouses white nationalism and conservative
values. (In practice we see thesevalues in Ukraine as well).

● It’s in pursuit of these values that Russia is a major funder of right wing European parties
such as National Front (France), Jobbik (Hungary), Freedom Party (Austria), and Golden Dawn (the
Greek neo-fascist party). Russia is the major inspiration of Trumpism in the USA

● That is why ... at CPAC, the annual conservative conference in the USA, all the Republican leaders there were full of praise for Mr Putin. They stated unequivocally that Russia is the last bastion for the survival of both the white person and Christianity in the world.

● The deep romance between present-day Russian and USA white nationalism (main faction of the Republican Party, Fox News, January 6 Movement etc) is therefore not just a fleeting Trumpian idiosyncrasy. It is deeply ideological and is a function of shared values

Zakes Mda, South African novelist, poet and playwright.

Posted by: thomas | Apr 8 2022 14:46 utc | 88

If you look here
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/08/europe/kramatorsk-railway-station-strike-intl/index.html
there is a photo of the four burnt out cars from another angle that shows the face of the railway station building.

All the windows of the building are intact. All of them.

If you look here:
https://www.tylaz.net/2022/04/08/the-moment-when-the-kramatorsk-train-station-from-which-thousands-of-people-wanted-to-leave-is-hit-by-russian-missiles/

You'll see the actual "damage" as the cars are burning. It looks to me much more likely that it was the end car that contained whatever explosive/incendiary device. If you look at b's photo about you will see that this car is by far the most burnt out of the four.

Car bomb, I'd suggest. And an incendiary device, not an explosive device.

Finally, if you go here:
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/russia-ukraine-war/story/dead-injured-rocket-strike-kramatorsk-train-station-in-ukraine-evacuations-1935073-2022-04-08

You'll see a close-up of the fire-fighters attending the still-burning cars.

I see bags and luggage, but I don't see any dead bodies. How odd.
Maybe they fell there later, after the fire was brought under control.



Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 8 2022 14:47 utc | 89

Posted by: thomas | Apr 8 2022 14:46 utc | 93

Oh my, I had no idea Russia is in the process of taking over the World. Thanks Thomas.

http://www.noahmclaurine.com/the-peace-of-terror.html

Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 8 2022 14:50 utc | 90

The new story is that Russia has run out of missiles, so they are forced to resort to digging old Tochka-U missiles out of mothballs.

Also, Russia has nothing better to do with its last remaining missiles other than fire them at fleeing civilians for lulz.

The fact that Ukraine has Tochka-U missiles in active service, not to mention a track record of firing them at civilians, and is the sole beneficiary of more atrocity propaganda is left unsaid.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Apr 8 2022 14:51 utc | 91

Posted by: thomas | Apr 8 2022 14:23 utc | 76

I have still not reached a conclusion of what (if any side) Putin is on. Many are convinced that Putin is part of, and always has been a part of a World Government / very Rich Persons / Corporate conspiracy since he was too old to be WEF young global leader. He has certainly been to a lot of the Davos / WEF meetings, and has come out with very similar bullshit, and is gung-ho, about being jabbed (which I personally do not think is a good idea).

However, even at his age, he is still the smartest kid on the block, and I am fairly convinced his most recent actions, have been in support of his own Russian populations.

This is more than I can I say for any of our totally corrupt brainwashed politicians and bankers.

What I do not quite understand is why he has not yet turned off the gas.

In his position I would, and let us freeze to death. No pay. No gas.

Maybe he realises, what is really going on here is a USA economic attack on Europe including the UK

I wish we had a leader like him, instead of complete buffoon, who is no longer funny.

Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Apr 8 2022 14:51 utc | 92

Here's the official Russian MoD statement, which says it all:

08.04.2022 (14:50)
Statement by Russian Defence Ministry
In order to accuse Russia of an alleged missile strike on Kramatorsk railway station, Kiev regime has posted on social media pictures of Tochka-U missile launchers that took part in "Union Courage 2022" Russian-Belarusian exercise inFebruary.

Please note, all photos published by Kiev from "Union Courage 2022" exercise show non-Russian missile systems.

Tochka-U tactical missiles whose wreckage was found near Kramatorsk railway station are used only by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

According to clarified information, the strike on Kramatorsk railway station was carried out by missile division of the Ukrainian armed forces from the area of Dobropol’e, 45 kilometres south-west of the city.

The aim of the Kiev regime's strike on the railway station in Kramatorsk was to disrupt the mass exit of residents from the city in order to use them as a "human shield" to defend Ukrainian armed forces positions, as in many other Ukrainian population centres.


The link for those with Russian VPN: Russian MoD

Posted by: pasha | Apr 8 2022 14:56 utc | 93

I finally understand why the US badgered Turkey to hand over its S400 system.

We can send American and EU made weapons to Ukraine, but instead we send obsolete USSR weapon systems and planes. That's not because we are cheapskates but because the Russians don't use western made weapons. And we need Ukraine to use Russian weapons because that makes it so much harder to prove who used them. A false flag utilizing and S400 would be so much more effective than one using USSR hardware.

Posted by: Martina | Apr 8 2022 14:57 utc | 94

Then why do they believe they have anything constructive to contribute to this shitshow?

Posted by: Arganthonios | Apr 8 2022 14:31 utc | 80

How dumb are you? They're calling for the establishment of a broad movement within Russia against the war and Putin's KGB capitalism. No need to follow your stupid shirking, refering to western nazis, when the biggest nazi in the region is Putin himself and his political system

Posted by: thomas | Apr 8 2022 14:58 utc | 95

This is another example where the MSM create falsities and confusion in the public space. I always assumed the purpose of the medias was entertainment like Hollywood's is. I rationalized it by believing the US journalists as entertainers make many errors and the Americans don't care anyway about what happens so far away. Now I think differently.

The key is that US foreign policy is still based on a zero-sum game. The State Department plays hardball on the international arena and the medias are one of the tools it uses to push the narrative. The State Deportment could not push its own narrative if the medias were just reporting the facts. So they don't mind distoeting the reality to please the editorial hand.

Whenever the US switches to a win-win foreign policy the journalists will be welcomed to blood us with verified factual information since cooperative work is based on valid information. But we are not there.

In summary propaganda is good for war but it would be useless in productive peaceful times. So we are at war as a matter of fact.

Posted by: Richard L | Apr 8 2022 15:04 utc | 96

Circe & all: about the impact of the booster I doubt an intercept could explain it, even if it was halted completely by such an intercept it would still have some distance to fall. Instead it looks like someone dropped it off the side of a lorry or maybe from a few meters up on a small crane, ...or someone used a spade.

There are more problems though. If anyone had intercepted the booster it should normally look much more torn up and have at least a few small punctures from the metal fragments of the anti-air munition used against it.

Compare it to the wreckage of the passenger plane shot down by Ukraine to get a approximate general idea. It wouldn't be identical but it should be somewhat similar.

There would also be a lot of scratches and damage to the paint.

So much about everything just doesn't fit and that more one thinks about the whole thing (like many others here also have), the energies involved, the aftermath, and yes even the human aspect of emotions and grief, the more one finds that looks wrong and strange.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 8 2022 15:09 utc | 97

Posted by: Melkiades | Apr 8 2022 11:32 utc | 15


How will the community and b. deal with more exposure and popularity and thus, more mediocrity in the comments?

Same way we have from the start. Logic. Fact. Truth.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 8 2022 15:09 utc | 98

RT on Serbia's backing on the Russia’s suspension from the UN Human Rights Council:

“Our initial decision was to abstain, but then we were subjected to countless and difficult pressure,” Vucic told RTS TV on Thursday.

“They said - do you know that a decision is being made whether Serbia will be exempted from the package of sanctions on [Russian] oil, and whether it will be able to import oil after May 15?” the president said. He compared the possible effect of sanctions on Serbia to “a nuclear strike.”

Posted by: gary | Apr 8 2022 15:10 utc | 99

Looks like we got ourself a Nazi troll. Oh dear...

Posted by: mikhas | Apr 8 2022 15:14 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.